Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 17, 2022
Ukraine SitRep – More Missiles, Attack Plans, Artillery Hits Morale

Yesterday:

Russia launched dozens of missiles at Ukrainian energy infrastructure on Friday morning, knocking out heating systems in towns and cities across the country as temperatures dropped well below freezing and prompting the national utility to impose sweeping emergency blackouts.

Russia had launched 76 missiles at critical infrastructure targets across Ukraine and air defenses managed to shoot down 60 of them, the top commander of Ukraine’s Armed Forces, Gen. Valeriy Zaluzhnyi, said in a statement.

There were 16 missiles which got through to hit their targets. The rest of the report mentioned several of the targeted areas. But those numbers added up to more than 16 missiles:

Ukraine’s energy minister, Herman Galushchenko, said that as many as nine power-generating facilities had been damaged, the Ukrinform news agency reported. He also said that corresponding stations and substations transmitting electricity had suffered damage.

In Kharkiv, in northeastern Ukraine, 10 missiles had hit the city, damaging critical infrastructure, local official said.

Missiles also damaged infrastructure and hit a residential building in the central city of Kryvyi Rih, Mr. Zelensky’s hometown.

The attack was obviously bigger than Gen. Zaluzhnyi has claimed. Or the shot down count was wrong.

That must also have been obvious to the writers and editors of the quoted piece but is not mentioned in it.

The Russian Defense Ministry reported no precise numbers but claimed that decoys were intentionally part of the strike:

On Friday, 16 December, Ukraine's military command, defence and industrial complex systems and the energy facilities supporting them were hit with a massive strike by long-range, airborne and sea-based precision weapons. The purpose of the strike has been achieved. All the assigned targets have been neutralised. The strike prevented the transfer of foreign-made weapons and ammunition, blocked the movement of reserves to combat areas, and halted Ukraine's defence enterprises producing and repairing weapons, military equipment and ammunition. In the course of repelling the strike by Ukrainian and Western air defence systems, a significant resource was expended on deliberately launched decoys.

At the same time, four radar stations of Ukrainian S-300 air defence systems in the settlements of Andrusovka and Pridneprovskoye (Dnepropetrovsk region), as well as Novotavricheskaya and Nikolay-Pole (Zaporozhye region), have been revealed and destroyed. As a result of the unprofessional actions of Ukrainian air defence units, civilian infrastructure on the ground has been damaged.

The Russian forces first send cheap Iran-designed drones as decoys and then follow up with real cruise missiles. If the first round induced the air defenses to lighten up their radar a second round will follow to destroy these.

As the published accounts of total impacts did not add up with the totals claimed by the Ukrainian military it now has changed the numbers:

Ukraine’s general staff said on Saturday that the Russians had launched 98 missiles and 65 rockets fired from multiple-rocket systems aimed at civilian and energy infrastructure targets in that barrage. The military previously had put the figure at 76 missiles, and although it was not immediately clear why the count changed, information in the initial hours after an attack is frequently incomplete.

Today more strikes were coming:

With Ukrainians already on edge about further strikes, new explosions rang out over the port city of Odesa early Saturday, and air-raid alerts sounded across the country a few hours later. Midmorning, the Ukrainian general command warned that military jets were taking off from neighboring Belarus and that the whole of Ukraine was a potential target.

Early reports from Ukrainian officials on Saturday were of incoming missiles being intercepted. The country’s southern military command said that two incoming Russian missiles had been intercepted by its air defense in Odesa and caused no casualties.

Yesterday the Russian president Vladimir Putin was briefed a whole day on future plans of the 'special military operation':

The President spent all day on Friday working at the joint staff of military branches involved in the special military operation.

The head of state was briefed about the work of the joint staff and on the progress made in the special military operation, held a general meeting and separate meetings with commanders.

On Monday Putin will meet with the Belorussian president Aleksandr Lukashenko:

The heads of state are set to discuss in detail the implementation of the previously adopted Union State programs. This pertains, first of all, to trade and economic cooperation, joint import substitution projects. Cooperation in the energy sector will be an important point of the agenda. The presidents will also pay much attention to security issues, exchange views on the situation in the region and the world, and discuss joint measures to respond to emerging challenges.

Lukashenko wants cheaper Russian gas for Belarus while Putin wants Belarus to do as Russia says. Some compromise will be found in the middle on both issues.

The meeting is of interest as some of the options for a larger Russian operation in the war involve attacks from Belarus into Ukraine.


bigger

This could be a move north to south in west Ukraine on a line that is some 60 kilometers from the Polish border. The purpose would be to cut off the 'western' weapon supplies that are still constantly coming in. Colonel Doug Macgregor favors that move. Another move could again go towards Kiev as the Ukrainian chief-of-staff Zaluzhnyi expects.

I have my doubts about both operations. If the electricity network is down as it is soon likely to be the transport of weapons from the west will be sufficiently interrupted as the trains will mostly come to a halt. Kiev is not yet of importance. Another move towards it may only come at the very end of the war. The primary task of the whole operation is to to demilitarize Ukraine and to completely liberate the Donbas region. That is still a big task and should be the major focus of the next operations.

A move from the southern Mariupol region that Russian forces currently hold up northwards into the back of the Ukrainian forces which currently fight at the eastern Donetsk frontline would be a sensible. Those Ukrainian forces would then have to either retreat or get trapped. This move would help to avoid the casualties that come with breaking through the heavily fortified lines in the east that were build over the last seven years.

But even if such a move does not happen yet the demilitarization of Ukraine is still happening. The unabated destruction of the Ukrainian forces on the frontline continues day by day. The artillery advantage the Russian forces have has only increased over time.

Ukrainian news from the frontline is grim:

For those defending Bakhmut, Russia’s more cautious tactics bring little relief, as the daily bombardment of Ukrainian positions continues uninterrupted. 

Outside the city, the close proximity of Russian and Ukrainian lines, often less than a kilometer apart, means that Russia doesn’t even need to use its heavy artillery as much, instead relying on an endless stream of mortar, grenade and rocket launcher fire to pound Ukrainian positions.

For the Ukrainian soldiers tasked with holding the first line, there is little to do but hope that one’s trench or dugout doesn’t take a direct hit.

“Our first and second lines of defense are relatively stable, but it comes at a great cost,” said Ivan, whose unit and exact posting have been kept undisclosed for security reasons.

“Some units are simply running out of people. From what I saw, in only one fight, we had around 10 of our guys killed, never mind the number of wounded. Not everyone could be extracted from the battlefield, some just bled out where they lay.”

In these conditions, the common belief about Russia’s poor effectiveness as a fighting force can quickly melt away.

“They (Ukrainian military leadership) tell everyone about the huge casualties suffered on the Russian side, but from what I could see around Bakhmut, things are more or less OK for them,” said Ivan.

“In terms of the coordination between their brigades and artillery, and their overall unit cohesion, you can tell they are doing very well in this sector because of how difficult it is to fight against them.”

While it might not be making large advances, Russia’s attritional assault is proving effective in other ways, according to Ivan.

“Morale is beginning to suffer because of the lack of personnel,” he said. “It's hard to speak of good morale when it's eight below freezing, you are sitting in a trench under fire all day and there is simply nobody to replace you for days on end.”

Still, there is no talk among the troops of retreating from Bakhmut and its outskirts.

“In that respect our resolve is strong,” said Ivan, “despite – definitely not thanks to – what is going on on the battlefield.”

Those who still reject holding peace talks are responsible for this situation and for the massive amount of casualties the Ukrainian army has each and every day.

Comments

Ukraine now has a super duper tank according to Forbs headline
“.Ukraine’s Super-Upgraded M-55S Tanks Have Equipped A New Kind Of Brigade”
https://mezha.media/en/2022/09/20/the-m-55s-tank-a-deep-modernization-of-the-soviet-t-55-for-the-armed-forces/

It became known that Slovenia is transferring 28 of its own M-55S tanks to Ukraine. It seems that not long ago we were mocking Russian T-62 captured by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and now we are getting even older vehicles, the production of which began… in 1947. This is true, but, as they say, there is a nuance.
The M-55S is actually a modernization of the Soviet T-55 tank, the first tank of the Cold War, but it was carried out in the late 1990s and in general, the M-55S is a completely different vehicle.
The T-54/55 is a Soviet medium tank, not even a main battle tank, which weighs only 36 tons.

Put some Ukroids in them, weld down the hatches and they are good to go.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 17 2022 23:52 utc | 101

Posted by: moaobserver | Dec 17 2022 18:38 utc | 7
I know you’re not a troll but probably more a hard Marxist in the vk mold, which is a perspective that needs to be heard. I agree that it’s dangerous to back Putin as the future of Western anti-imperialism and that we should be going long on China. Why? Because Putin’s position is opportunistic and operates (or wants to operate) squarely within the current global order even if he’s in the right over Ukraine. Global financial and capital flows are important to him even if his rhetoric throws back to his Soviet roots. But he ain’t no Commie, whereas China still does, to a greater or lesser extent, represent a challenge to that order. Putin, in other words, is standing up to the bullies but he still wants into the club. China’s relation to that club has properly yet to be seen.
On the ‘failure of the SMO’ I think you’re being narrow-minded. Ukraine in February was a very powerful military tricked out with 8 years of NATO training, funds and Maginot line fortifications, not to mention mobilization of the population through ultra-right wing indoctrination. A child of 10 during the Maidan is now a willing 18 yr old recruit for the cause (14th Waffen SS Division ‘Galizien’ was only 2 numbers up from 12th Waffen SS Division ‘Hitler Jugend’). On top of all this there is the informal presence of NATO, SAS, foreign mercs and Dirlewanger outlaws. You seriously under-estimate both what Russia was up against and what Russia has achieved. Cracking the Wehrmacht nut even after Stalingrad took 18 months (Feb ’43-July/Aug ’44), and required similar tactics—degrade resources through attrition and enticing futile counter-attacks like Operation Zitadel. Let’s see where the RF is by mid-2023 then take stock.

Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 18 2022 0:00 utc | 102

@Melaleuca 62
Thaks for the kind words. I try.
I too loathe the Guardian and all its works including the execrable Harding (see my worse than scathing assessment at Usually Recommended News Sources).
That said, when dealing with sad creatures with mashed potatoes for brains, unthinkingly repeating Western propaganda, I find that citing sources with which they identify to be most conducive to disestablishing doxastic closure.

Posted by: Hermit | Dec 18 2022 0:01 utc | 103

Random thought…
Z’s perceived escape and retirement location is in south Florida.
DeSantis is the Governor of Florida. He can have various reasons for state law enforcement officials enter said residence based on random crimes that could be committed there. Money laundering would be among them. I assume the residence is closely watched, and closely guarded at all times.
It will be interesting to see how much Biden’s alphabet goons will interfere with a state level proceeding.
And of course, DeSantis is a prime candidate for 2024 presidential run, having won his “swing state” by 1.5 million votes.

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Dec 18 2022 0:06 utc | 104

“Those who still reject holding peace talks are responsible for this situation…”

Those who reject peace talks are Russia’s de facto best allies. What kind of peace talks can happen at this juncture? It would be another Minsk II, a total sellout of the liberated areas, and do nothing but let the nazis regroup, rearm, and reprepare.
As a reminder, until 22 February Putin was still intent on compelling the LDNR to dissolve themselves, disarm, and live under nazi rule with some façade of “autonomy”. In the by now famous peace talks in April he was willing to throw all the other liberated territory population under the nazi bus and withdraw to the 24 February frontline in return for Ukranazi “neutrality”.
As the Belarusian Telegram channel owner vicktop55 says, Russia’s best friends are those who are purely he enemies, because they compel Russia to act in her best interests and not what the Putinist neoliberal system wants.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 18 2022 0:07 utc | 105

January 2021 … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccination_in_Russia#History
@ wagelaborer ‡ Dec 17 2022 23:34 utc | 99 & 1

On 6 January 2021, the RDIF announced that 1 million people had been vaccinated with the Sputnik V vaccine. On January 10, 2021, the RDIF stated that over 1.5 million people had been vaccinated.[26]
February 2021
By 17 February 2021, 2.2 million people had received the first dose of the Sputnik V vaccine and another 1.7 million people had received both doses.[27]
March 2021
By 15 March 2021, over 3.5 million people had received both doses of the Sputnik V vaccine, according to the RDIF.[28]
April 2021
On 9 April 2021, Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin said that less than half of those vaccinated were over the age of 60.[29]

What’s the NATO’s going rate, dude?

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 0:15 utc | 106

“Were there moments in history when fronts suddenly collapsed and the armies losing the war, suddenly refused to fight?” Kerensky@15
In the latter stages of the Vietnam War, there were frequent instances of US troops refusing to obey orders or simply pretending to obey them while avoiding contact with the enemy.

Posted by: Rob | Dec 18 2022 0:16 utc | 107

reply to 101
28 tanks? If anyone follows the daily kill list, those might last for 2 or 3 days.

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 18 2022 0:17 utc | 108

“Obama was the last successful projection of the illusion of America. It is far too early to claim he was right about Russia, since he was wrong … about everything else. Come back in a year Mr. Observer.”
Posted by: Activist Potato | Dec 17 2022 23:14 utc | 96

______
Yep, Obama was an exceptionally-gifted fraud, a Chicago street hustler polished by Harvard Law School into a brilliant turd. Russia has already proven him wrong, but as usual, most Americans still buy his snake oil, not believing their own lying eyes.
Barack Obama was the perfect Trojan Horse, gifted to the US by the supranational banksters to (almost) destroy any remnant of the anti-war American Left and pave the way for psuedo-left, faux-Marxist, neoliberal wokeism, a transparent con to divide and demoralize good people.
However, they’ve carried it too far. More and more Americans, the most propagandized populace on the planet, are finally waking up … even while most of the planet is already on its second pot of coffee.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Dec 18 2022 0:17 utc | 109

Zanon…
“Russia_ Always one step behind”.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 17 2022 23:04 utc | 94

You missed the ™ symbol. Please show some respect for the intellectual property of others. Russia_ Always one step behind™

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 18 2022 0:20 utc | 110

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 17 2022 22:14 utc | 72
Very likely. That’s why I don’t think the Russians care too much about the western weapons flow. Given that thousands and perhaps tens of thousands of “rebranded” NATO troops are fighting in Ukraine, might as well let everyone except an actual combined arms army in – they’re all just going to die anyway, and the equipment will be blow up or captured. I think the Russians might have tried to close the Carpathian tunnels, but reportedly that is very difficult given the construction and they could probably be repaired.
I think any move from Belarus will be directed in support of a strike at Kiev, probably in concert with the western drive. But as noted, I’ve not seen any real evidence that Russia has enough troops in Belarus. Someone said Russia wouldn’t do it because it would open Belarus to attack, which I find doubtful. If Russia had enough forces to drive down from Belarus, Poland wouldn’t be in a position to attack without running into them. Belarus itself doesn’t have the necessary forces to do a drive into Ukraine by itself. So either Russia builds up its forces in Belarus, or there will be no attack from Belarus.
I think Russia will do as I suggested: concentrate their forces, destroy everything in front of them, in one direction and another, until there’s nothing left between them and Kiev. This might be a combination of “big arrow” and “grinding”: maneuver directly in big arrow fashion until some force appears in front or on the flanks, veer to destroy them by “grinding”, then resume the big arrow advance. Once Russian forces are not strung out along 1,000 km, nothing in Ukraine could stand against them. But first, Donbass will be cleared.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 18 2022 0:25 utc | 111

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuDFbS6mD6U
According to Scott Ritter, and common sense… Ze is on the out and Za on the way up.
Kinda makes sense based on the statements covered in the past UA thread

Posted by: Et Tu | Dec 18 2022 0:31 utc | 112

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/the-happy-go-lucky-jewish-group-that-connects-trump-and-putin-215007/

Two decades ago, as the Russian president set about consolidating power on one side of the world, he embarked on a project to supplant his country’s existing Jewish civil society and replace it with a parallel structure loyal to him
Starting in 1999, Putin enlisted two of his closest confidants, the oligarchs Lev Leviev and Roman Abramovich, who would go on to become Chabad’s biggest patrons worldwide, to create the Federation of Jewish Communities of Russia under the leadership of Chabad rabbi Berel Lazar, who would come to be known as “Putin’s rabbi.”
Putin’s kind of Jews
The Russian state’s embrace of Chabad happened, like many things in Putin’s Russia, as the result of a factional power struggle.
In 1999, soon after he became prime minister, Putin enlisted Abramovich and Leviev to create the Federation of Russian Jewish Communities.
Its purpose was to undermine the existing umbrella for Russia’s Jewish civil society, the Russian Jewish Congress, led by oligarch Vladimir Gusinsky, a potential threat to Putin and President Boris Yeltsin.
A year later, Gusinsky was arrested by Putin’s government and forced into exile.
At the time, Russia already had a chief rabbi as recognized by the Russian Jewish Congress, Adolf Shayevich.
But Abramovich and Leviev installed Chabad rabbi Lazar at the head of their rival organization.
The Kremlin removed Shayevich from its religious affairs council, and ever since it has instead recognized Lazar as Russia’s chief rabbi, leaving the country with two rival claimants to the title.
The Putin-Chabad alliance has reaped benefits for both sides. Under Putin, anti-Semitism has been officially discouraged, a break from centuries of discrimination and pogroms, and the government has come to embrace a state-sanctioned version of Jewish identity as a welcome part of the nation.
As Putin has consolidated his control of Russia, Lazar has come to be known derisively as “Putin’s rabbi.”
He has escorted the Russian leader to Jerusalem’s Western Wall and attended the opening ceremony of the Sochi Olympics, Putin’s pet project, on the Jewish Sabbath.
Putin returned that favor by arranging for Lazar to enter the stadium without submitting to security checks that would have broken the rules for observing Shabbat.
In 2013, a $50 million Jewish Museum and Tolerance Center opened in Moscow under the auspices of Chabad and with funding from Abramovich. Putin donated a month of his salary to the project, while the Federal Security Service, the successor to the KGB, pitched in by offering relevant documents from its archives.
In 2014, Lazar was the only Jewish leader present at Putin’s triumphal announcement of the annexation of Crimea.
But the rabbi has paid a price for his loyalty to Putin.
Since the annexation, his continued support for the Russian autocrat has caused a rift with Chabad leaders in Ukraine.
And for years, the Russian government has defied an American court order to turn over a trove of Chabad texts called the “Schneerson Library” to the Chabad Lubavitch headquarters in Crown Heights, Brooklyn.
Shortly after the opening of the tolerance museum, Putin ordered the collection transferred there instead.
The move made Lazar the custodian of a prized collection that his Brooklyn comrades believe is rightfully theirs.
If Lazar has any qualms about his role in all the intra-Chabad drama, he hasn’t let on publicly. “Challenging the government is not the Jewish way,” the rabbi said in 2015.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 18 2022 0:39 utc | 113

No electricity for the electric locos? No diesel for the diesel-electrics? No worries, Ukries can rest assured their railways can still be a vital conduit for those the cannons and candles and stuff from out of the West… https://youtu.be/CirQW1lvtGc

Posted by: petra | Dec 18 2022 0:45 utc | 114

@Tuyzentfloot | Dec 17 2022 21:49 utc | 61
I listened to Judge Napolitano’s recent interview of Scott Ritter — I always do because I think Scott Ritter is very knowledgeable and his opinions have to be respected. With regard to his view that there will be a Russian offensive in the near future, and that Russia would likely opt to move on Odessa (rather than Kiev), I found myself in disagreement. Putin views Odessa as the Pearl of Ukraine, this being the great city founded by Catherine the Great, and with a population that has always spoken Russian and been supportive of Russia. Currently, people in Odessa are trying to comply with the fascist dictates of Zelensky by speaking Ukrainian in public, but I believe this is just to avoid being criticized by the small percentage of ultra nationalists that are in Ukraine. To hear from friends that this is currently transpiring is very sad. However, I think Putin understands that the people of Odessa will come to accept being part of Russia, so I do not believe he wants to do any more damage to Odessa than necessary.
Regarding Kiev, the coup regime has been run by ultra-nationalists who worship the Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera. They have insisted that everyone in Ukraine stop speaking Russian and speak only Ukrainian. The people of Crimea saw this coming and seceded, and the people of the Donbas also wanted out but Russia wasn’t ready to take them, so they fought to preserve their language and their culture.
At this point, I don’t think Putin considers the people of Kiev to be brothers of the Russian people, and if he has to unleash hell on anyone, it will be these people and their fascist leaders.
So, it’s my view that Putin will pass on Odessa and instead target Kiev and attempt to capture as many political leaders as possible. If successful in gaining control of Kiev, I believe announcing this on all Ukraine television stations will break the morale of the Ukrainian troops in east Ukraine and Odessa, and hopefully all will surrender. For those who don’t surrender, their time would be limited since they will no longer be resupplied with weapons or ammunition.
This approach may lead to the people of Kiev hating Russia for some extended period of time, but I believe the people of Odessa will embrace the freedom to speak their native Russian language, watch TV programs in which Russian is spoken, etc. I may be wrong, but my guess is that within a couple of years a significant majority of the people of Odessa will be glad to be part of Russia.

Posted by: OdessaConnected | Dec 18 2022 0:47 utc | 115

Eighthman | Dec 18 2022 0:17 utc | 109
>…28 tanks? …… those might last for 2 or 3 days.”
My dark humour allows for a Z-blot leader board.
Which country lost a prize piece of Wunderwaffe in the shortest time?
I’m proposing this because the Aussie battler, the Bushmaster achieved an ignoble end in less than a month. (So I think we can win this, or at least make the quarter finals…)
Hermit | Dec 18 2022 0:01 utc | 103
> doxastic
Had to look that one up. Cheers . And yep.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 18 2022 0:53 utc | 116

Don’t expect Russia to do any of the things that have been tossed out by armchair generals concerning a winter offensive.
Russia/Putin is playing 5-D global, thermo-Nuclear chess, and Biden/EU are playing checkers and betting on the game with monopoly money.
Russia doesn’t need a winter offensive. Ukraine and NATO are doing exactly what they want them to do. Russia is grinding down the AFU, and destroying NATO weapons stockpiles piece meal… it is working out great for them. the west is doing exactly what Putin and Russia wants them to do.
If Russia just keeps doing what they’re doing, they will successfully de-militarize UA AND NATO as a bonus.

Posted by: Oldcutlas | Dec 18 2022 0:54 utc | 117

Opport Knocks #79

Say what you will about Obama, but at least he had the sense not to be photographed with US sponsored terrorists.

Madelein Albright
George Soros
Obama and Netanyahu at the King David Hotel!
Henry Kissinger
Hilary Clinton is well sponsored through the Foundation
These are terrorists and war criminals and Obama was very comfortable being in their presence and photographed countless times. With Netanyahu the friendly images may have ceased and a new PR performance enacted but the sponsoring continued unabated other than an occasional bark from the dog white house.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 18 2022 1:02 utc | 118

Ukrainian nationalists are best described as Banderites, but 98% of westerners are too poorly educated to understand what that means. And since Bandera pledged loyalty to Hitler, the connection to Nazis is direct. Add to that the fact that Ukrainians themselves (the modern ones) celebrate Bandera’s connection to the Nazis and successive Ukrainian governments have allowed the country to be the world center for white-nationalist, neo-Nazi bullshit and you get what might as well be an actual Nazi state.
You could also call Ukraine a CIA state and be correct since Banderism wouldn’t have survived WWII without the CIA and MI6. For that matter the survival of actual Nazis depended on those organizations. NATO was mostly staffed with actual Nazis until the 70’s. The problem is that the people who built the CIA loved Nazis even before WWII.
As for fascism. Refer to Georgi Dimitrov’s definition: the political manifestation of finance capitalism. In that regard, Ukraine is absolutely fascist but so is the US, UK and EU regardless of which parties are in control of the nations. Neither Russia nor China would qualify but Russia had to fight hard over the last 20 years to (mostly) rid herself of true fascism. Putin’s great failure was not developing the domestic economy but consideration needs to be given for the constraints he faced. The US and sanctions ended up helping him but clearly the task isn’t done.

Posted by: Lex | Dec 18 2022 1:06 utc | 119

My question for the bar is which came first the Ukro build up on the Belorussian border or the Russo-Belorussian military fussing about?
’cause I still can’t imagine NATO & the Empire quitting now.

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 1:06 utc | 120

@ 3; Jew this, Jew that, how ’bout you stuff it? AND STFU?

Posted by: vetinLA | Dec 18 2022 1:16 utc | 121

Well, as of this moment, the Russians really aren’t saying a whole lot that might indicate what their next move might be. Yesterday’s all day security council/high command meeting was very likely not ended in moot, however. The few things that they did publicly say today were interesting. One of those things was that there is no longer any reason or any intent at all to negotiate with nato as an organization (and that it has come to the point that they will have to insist that nato representatives not be present at international events in which the Russian Federation is participating). That’s a bit of a thing. Mr. Pushilin (the head of the DPR) has confirmed that an American company retro fitted the Ukrainian drones that were used to attack Russian airfields several hundred kilometers inside Russian Federation territory with gps guidance systems at a location in Kharkov (although he did not confirm that they were launched from there or from Sumy it does not take a military genius to figure out that such is very likely). They have got to be just about as tired of pretending that there is anyone to talk to in the so called ‘Zelensky regime’ as they are of chewing on the embarrassing fact that they are the ones who decided to recognize the fake regime in DC (to preserve social order, of course), and that the fake regime promptly repaid this kindness by immediately ordering a full military assault on Donbass. So, I suppose there’s that too. As to where the hammer falls next, it’s up to the dudes with the hammer.

Posted by: Josh | Dec 18 2022 1:17 utc | 122

If I were advising the Russians, I would suggest deploying the reserve troops to
1) reinforce East of the Dnieper and consolidate and finalize the Russian hold on the referenda territories (now part of Russia).
2)Simultaneously, I would recommend sending a large column down the West side of the Dnieper to act as an anvil upon which to pound the Ukies retreating from the East side of the river and to prevent reinforcement, take out artillery batteries and such. I would take care to not allow a single Ukie to survive. These units would reach Kherson from the North and recapture it once the Ukies are wiped out.
3) Send smaller units out toward to Polish border to intercept NATO supplies, troops, etc. coming down those rat lines.
4) I recommend would holding off on Odessa. Keep it as a bargaining chip. It can always be captured later.
5) I would recommend leaving Kiev alone. Big city and urban warfare is a bitch. Let the Ukie leadership flee to exile or be killed off in a coup when the situation – between military losses and freezing/starving – reach critical mass.

Posted by: Eric Newhill | Dec 18 2022 1:19 utc | 123

Oldcutlas | Dec 18 2022 0:54 utc | 118
Yep. I’m more inclined to this.
Merkel “shocked; shocked ! ” the world with her cynical admission Minsk was a con job. She so fooled Putin he spent 8 years >-
a/ sunning himself fishing in the Taiga with Shoigu
b/ restructuring the military and commissioning hypersonics
(c/ a little from column a, a lot more from column b)
It would seem 12months along from the Russian demand for security guarantees from USNATO, that the sloSMO didn’t go entirely the way Putin and the Generals thought.
But on the economic front, I suggest yes, Russia in its wildest modelling would not have imagined the EU would self immolate the way it has.
If Russia can get the USNATO to keep sending money, machines, materials and men to Ukraine to be plonked.. that keeps them distracted while their economies disappear.
The U$ thinks, or did until right about now, that its strategy of “to the last Ukrainian” was “worth it” as it was weakening and depleting Russia.
Russia might well be “paying a price” to conduct its sloSMO.
But EU+U$ is also paying a high, even too high, a price.
It seems Russia retreated from Kharkov and Kherson thinking they could recapture when the tide turns.
A much longer view… 2years, 5? 10? It’s likely Odessa will vote to join RF….
Kiev can remain as an isolated city-state, a giant outdoor museum, preserving the joint Kievian-Rus heritage.
And Poland can continue to pine for Lvov.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 18 2022 1:22 utc | 124

RT reports a shield/”dome” is being erected over the ZNPP:

Russia is constructing a protective dome over spent radioactive fuel stores at the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant as Ukrainian forces continue to target the facility, senior regional official Vladimir Rogov has said.
He took to Telegram on Saturday to post a short video of the work that’s taking place. It showed technicians setting up shields over the tanks that hold spent nuclear fuel.
The dome is designed to protect the storage facilities from shrapnel and improvised explosive devices carried by drones, the official explained, adding that it would be reinforced further at a later period.

That’s being very responsible. Thanks Russia!

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 18 2022 1:26 utc | 125

Laurence | Dec 18 2022 1:06 utc | 121
What came first was the Polish/U$ build up on the Ukraine border, and “talk” of Poland being “invited” into western Ukraine (which they think belongs to them) to “help/assist” the Ukrainians.
Lots of Russian-Belarus build up in the corner of Belarus Poland Lithuania….
Quickly turned down the volume on that chatter..

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 18 2022 1:28 utc | 126

“…the west is doing exactly what Putin and Russia wants them to do.
“If Russia just keeps doing what they’re doing, they will successfully de-militarize UA AND NATO as a bonus.”
Posted by: Oldcutlas | Dec 18 2022 0:54 utc | 118

______
I think you’re right; despite all of Russia’s vociferous pleas, NATO heaved her right into B’rer Rabbit’s briar patch. And now the US/EU are mired in the vey quagmire trap they had so cunningly prepared for Russia. Karma! What a delightful bitch.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Dec 18 2022 1:29 utc | 127

” Those who still reject holding peace talks are responsible for this situation and for the massive amount of casualties the Ukrainian army has each and every day.”
Could not agree more. The day the RF decided to seriously engage/commit to this SMO/war whatever you want to call it, the game was up. The rest is theatre or bs. The Ukrainian losses/civilian losses/ RF losses are on the heads of the maniacs still pretending that anything other than an RF victory can happen. IMO the RF never wanted to have all of Ukraine bc it’s a black hole at the moment, but now it seems like they will have to deal with all of it. What a mess. RF did not create this. The western propaganda, the endless western funds/weapons, the stream of nato mercs/weapons. created this mess.

Posted by: dust | Dec 18 2022 1:31 utc | 128

“”Those who still reject holding peace talks are responsible for this situation and for the massive amount of casualties the Ukrainian army has each and every day”
To be clear that is Boris Johnson, Rishi Sunack, Joe Biden, Anthony Blinken, Jake Sulivan, Victoria Nuland, Loyd Austin, and Vlodomir Zelenski.
War criminals the lot of them.”
Posted by: Ike | Dec 17 2022 19:19 utc | 21
Thanks for that Ike….Absolutely true….

Posted by: vetinLA | Dec 18 2022 1:41 utc | 129

I posted this on the previous thread
Such an Absurd War,
The SMO whose aim is to preserve ethnic Russians from the Ukrainian wrath is in fact working
against them.
The Government of Ukraine is shelling Russian populated areas that are no longer under its control.
Meanwhile, it is feeding the meat grinder with hastily dispatched ethnic Russians for the Russian Artillery to decimate. Unfortunate men marched to the front by unrelenting Waffen SS butchers. Recruits are not from Western Ukraine but from the same population that Russia is aiming to protect.
All this while, Ukrainian officials have been claiming to the World on innumerable TV shows that they aim to eliminate the Russian population from Ukrainian land.
Russia is fighting on the wrong front. These wretched individuals fed to their schrnapelled end are
not the enemy.
The enemy has to be faced, but not in Ukraine.
There is no way to circumvent it. The decision centers must be the targets. The WEF, Washington, London, Brussels, Paris, Berlin, Tel Aviv, New York must be obliterated if the world is to be saved from the Illuminaties that want a 500,000,000 new World.
We will eventually get to this point, inexorably.
I grieve for all the souls that will be sacrificed needlessly while we march from station to station in
this absurd Via Crucis.

Posted by: CarlD | Dec 18 2022 1:42 utc | 130

@ CarlD | Dec 18 2022 1:42 utc | 131 who wrote

Russia is fighting on the wrong front. These wretched individuals fed to their schrnapelled end are
not the enemy.
The enemy has to be faced, but not in Ukraine.
There is no way to circumvent it. The decision centers must be the targets. The WEF, Washington, London, Brussels, Paris, Berlin, Tel Aviv, New York must be obliterated if the world is to be saved from the Illuminaties that want a 500,000,000 new World.

I am as frustrated with the pace of our civilization war as the next human and grieve as you do about the human loss.
And then I repeat the mantra, Might-Makes-Right patriarchy must not be defeated by more Might-Makes-Right patriarchy.
The Russian pace of the SMO is not Might-Makes-Right patriarchy.
The Russia/China axis replacement plan of global private finance is not Might-Makes-Right patriarchy.
The RoW is building a world that does not have Might-Makes-Right patriarchy at its core.
I urge patience as humanity has not walked this path before and the extinction threat from nuke/biological is real but only felt “necessary” by a small number of people who we hope never get to push that button.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 18 2022 2:01 utc | 131

Posted by: Petro | Dec 17 2022 18:14 utc | 3
The neo-Nazis just provided a smoke screen for the Jew takeover. <=Your nail has penetrated the lumber sufficiently to secure it to the wood. Posted by: Petro | Dec 17 2022 18:14 utc | 3 The neo-Nazis just provided a smoke screen for the Jew takeover. <= are you saying similar to the October revolution; 197 Jewish persons are said to have traveled [1917] from NYC with Lenin to position themselves in the Bolshevik revolutionary government? I don't understand your meaning? Posted by: George | Dec 17 2022 22:45 utc | 88 those with Jewish backgrounds are very diverse in their opinions, <=Are you suggesting Internationalism is a Jewish organized racial collaboration? Let the innocent stand up and stop this war.. no one else can.. . Has the Jewish interest in this war been properly discussed? Elon Musk at twitter has revealed some interesting data?

Posted by: snake | Dec 18 2022 2:10 utc | 132

what is that turkey talk today?
did anything happen? or is it just cold? hehehehe

Posted by: Macpott | Dec 18 2022 2:12 utc | 133

Russian for the exits: 25 September 2022
https://www.timesofisrael.com/putin-tells-russian-jews-he-expects-hefty-contribution-in-new-years-message/

Tens of thousands of Jews have left Russia since the onslaught began in February, and thousands more are expected to flee to Israel and elsewhere as Moscow plans a partial call-up of reservists to contribute to the war effort.
>…Nearly 200,000 Jews now live in Russia, though roughly three times as many are eligible for Israeli citizenship, having at least one Jewish grandparent.
>…Israeli government officials held an emergency meeting last week to prepare for an expected spike in immigration from Russia after Putin decided to mobilize another 300,000 troops, in a move that sparked protests across the country.
Authorities reportedly plan to bolster the number of flights between Moscow and Tel Aviv and find ways to facilitate the transfer of funds out of Russia.
Nearly 40,000 Ukrainians, Russians, and Belarussians have immigrated to Israel so far this calendar year, officials said last week.
Russia provided half of 2022’s new immigrants, with 23,789 documented immigrations. Ukrainians taking on Israeli citizenship followed with 13,097, and a much smaller number — 1,316 — of Belarussians.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 18 2022 2:13 utc | 134

The Russian Defense Ministry reported no precise numbers but claimed that
decoys were intentionally part of the strike.

Hmm, decoys eh?
That could mightiy complicate the clusterfuck ensuing if and when the Nukes start flying.
I wonder how many times more decoys than Nukes are in China’s and/or Russia’s arsenal? My guess would be minimum 5x, maximum 10x.
It’d be fun watching the Christian Colonial Cranks trying to overcome that problem.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 18 2022 2:14 utc | 135

Posted by: Dan Farrand | Dec 17 2022 23:44 utc | 100
It’s hard to wrap one head around – I agree. I had to get help from former Jews, to understand how all this could be.
Now The Bible makes much more sense.

Posted by: Anne B | Dec 18 2022 2:16 utc | 136

All this while, Ukrainian officials have been claiming to the World on innumerable TV shows that they aim to eliminate the Russian population from Ukrainian land.
Russia is fighting on the wrong front. These wretched individuals fed to their schrnapelled end are
not the enemy.
The enemy has to be faced, but not in Ukraine.
There is no way to circumvent it. The decision centers must be the targets. The WEF, Washington, London, Brussels, Paris, Berlin, Tel Aviv, New York must be obliterated if the world is to be saved from the Illuminaties that want a 500,000,000 new World.

Cognitive dissonance much? Go home Carl, you’re drunk.

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 2:20 utc | 137

karlof1 | Dec 17 2022 22:21 utc | 76
_____
Thank you for yet another illuminating comment, debunking the unfounded insinuations that Putin is merely another neoliberal WEF plant.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Dec 18 2022 2:20 utc | 138

Very convincing, indeed.

Posted by: BDC | Dec 18 2022 2:23 utc | 139

From the top:
“The Russian forces first send cheap Iran-designed drones as decoys and then follow up with real cruise missiles. If the first round induced the air defenses to lighten up their radar a second round will follow to destroy these.”
Sounds like a reasonable idea, but I think the Russian kill chain takes too long. Once given a target, how long does it take for the follow up cruise missiles to reach the location that the radars had been detected at? An hour? I would think that most of the radars would have been moved along with missile firing units by then.

Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 18 2022 2:44 utc | 140

NATO are itching for a justification to get boots on the ground (‘legitimately’).
Expect civil unrest in Western Ukraine re power outages/conditions (created/encouraged/enabled by the powers that be a la Maidan) and voila, Ukraine invites Poland in to assist in restoring order. The barn doors will then be wide open.

Posted by: DDK | Dec 18 2022 2:45 utc | 141

legal aspects seem for too many to be respected as today
or well where should we start then? 😀

Posted by: Macpott | Dec 18 2022 2:51 utc | 142

Dan Farrand @100–
Thanks for your reply and query. It’s very important to know that Putin operates as a team and isn’t at all alone, although he’s often depicted in that manner, and that manner fits with Russian history of Tsars. I get most of my information on the state of Russia’s economy from the meetings Putin holds with members of government of which a handful occur monthly. I use the official Kremlin site, not its English counterpart as often transcripts are incomplete or events are omitted, and I use my in-built translation software. Currently at that site, there are three events providing economic data. Clicking the Events button gives several weeks worth and can be searched for earlier events. The Russian Government website is another source and again the Russian pages provide much more info than the English. Since my recent discussion centered on Russia’s National Projects, here’s the link to a listing and links to them. And as you’ll see, there’s a whole lot more you can explore. I’m sure there’re Russian economic technical journals that exist online, but I don’t have any links to them. Like you, my time is limited, so I try to keep pace with events versus trying to catch-up. Again, the best, most recent compilation of economic information was provided by Putin’s Meeting of the Council for Strategic Development and National Projects. Putin would say Russia’s in good shape, but there’s a great deal of work needing to be done as there’s a long way to go to reach the national goals set for 2030.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 18 2022 2:52 utc | 143

I don’t see cutting the flow of weapons to be a major concern, either. Russia hasn’t bothered to do more in that area in ten months, why start now? It might be advisable, but clearly Russia has other priorities for its missiles. If a move is made from Belarus, it will be to surround Kiev.

Things have changed though. If weapons supplied so far were “tolerable” (not true at all – having Ukronazis/US soldiers shell civilians with M30A1 HIMARS fragmentation rounds should never have been allowed to happen), what is going to be supplied soon — western tanks, long-range missiles, etc. — is much more of a threat.
The border needs to be sealed, and if that is successfully carried out, the war will be over quickly.

Unfortunately there is still no evidence that Russia has the number of troops in Belarus needed to do this. Therefore it is more likely that the Russian offensive will be elsewhere – initially. But Kiev will be taken eventually, and preferably as soon as possible.

This is the bigger issue here – they will need 100,000 troops to properly seal the border in Volynia and Galicia, as that is extremely hostile territory.
They will also have to kill a lot of the locals. Which needs to be done, period, if denazificaiton is to ever happen. But they have never shown the ruthlessness necessary for that so far, or the awareness that security will not be achieved without physical extermination of the Nazis in Ukraine, and that there are a whole lot of Nazis in Ukraine right now.
BTW, that lesson should have been learned after the fiasco that was in retrospect the denazification operation in Western Ukraine in the 1940s and 1950s. If that had actually been successful, we would not be having the current situation. But we are having the current situation, so clearly all those Soviet soldiers and KGB operatives died for nothing back then. Because some level of acceptable pacification was achieved and then it was decided that the subject will just never to be brought up again.
I am not making it up – if you have some connection to the USSR or have studied the second half of its history, and then followed the Ukrainian developments post-1991, you will notice how ONU, UPA, Bandera, etc. are just almost completely absent from the discourse from the late 1950s until the collapse of the USSR. The effect was that the people born after a certain point weren’t even aware of that history, until much of Ukraine turned into Banderistan. In retrospect that was a huge own goal by the Soviets – they should have vilified Bandera non-stop just as much as Hitler, but apparently it was more convenient, in the interest of maintaining temporary calm and peace, not to do so, and to pretend that the problem had been solved once and for all.
But it wasn’t really solved, not all Nazis had been exterminated, and there, in the background, at dinner tables and family gatherings, it simmered. Then 1991 came and the fire was lit up again (with a lot of help from Canada, the US, and Germany, of course).
Can’t make the same mistake now, it has to be firmly rooted out this time.
But it’s much, much more difficult now, you have an order of magnitude more Banderofanatics now than in the 1940s. For the enormity of the task, 300-500K will not suffice…

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 18 2022 2:54 utc | 144

Re: Tbx | Dec 18 2022 2:35 utc | 141
& Of course, the Russian vaccines were/are not mRNA. Which brings into question the rest of `wagelaborer’s understanding of Russia — and the purpose `wagelaborer’s posting here.

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 2:56 utc | 145

One of the limits that I think Russia has laid down is that Belarus is to be kept out of the fighting. Otherwise it would form a weak spot in Russia’s eastern defenses. It does have Russian forces as additions, but I think the key are those three Mig 31’s with Khinzhal missiles.
Posted by: Stonebird | Dec 17 2022 20:54 utc | 46

I have hard time understanding what these three MiG-31s are supposed to achieve?
Each carries one Kinzhal. So that’s three missiles. Yeah, they’re hypersonic and everything, but again, it’s a salvo of three, then they need to go back to base to reload.
Had they brought some Tu-22M3, we would be talking something more substantial — 3 x 4 = 12.
But still, 12 isn’t actually all that much.
Unless those are nuclear missiles…

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 18 2022 2:56 utc | 146

” So we had to stay locked down Chinese style until the virus was eliminated.”
Posted by: Tbx | Dec 18 2022 2:35 utc | 141
During this time I was in the US and there were no lockdowns. It was all voluntary. I followed what was recommended until I gained more information bc I could. Didn’t effect shit for me other than knocking a lot of things off the honey pls do list. Information at that time was all over the place. Don’t see how people who just completely ignored any kind of concern at the time were right in some way? Once a little time passed and people were able to understand what was happening more, life went back to somewhat normal. I still fail to see how ignoring all advice and erroring on the side of potentially harming others was the right thing to do. The people who just ignored any threat at all are some of the most selfish people I have met.
Also don’t disagree with your vaccines concerns at all. It’s proven to be quite dangerous.

Posted by: dust | Dec 18 2022 2:56 utc | 147

Decoys. See every attack and defense cycle spurs more advanced tactics. Soon Russia will have patriot experience. Will the US have enough Russian missile experience?
Stay tuned the War God watches. As the under dog Russia needs to make a move. They need to cut supply lines OR neutralize some NATO advantage. I hope they do something good before Ukraine does…and they have a good track record.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 18 2022 2:56 utc | 148

An invasion from Belarus would open up a can of worms, direct line of contact with Poland.
It makes sense though, they could simply set up a pocket to harass transport corridors through Lutsk and Lviv.
Posted by: Johnycomelately | Dec 17 2022 23:03 utc | 93

NATO’s bluff needs to be called eventually.
Better sooner than later, because otherwise things will escalate further, with the delivery of more and more powerful and long-range weaponry to Ukraine. That has to stop. Again, the earlier the better.
Unless the expectation is that calling the bluff will not result in Poland backing off but in a direct NATO-Russia war.
In that case it might make sense to delay so that the arsenal of Kinzhals, Zircons, Avangards, ABM systemts, etc. can be built up properly for a total nuclear war. But that makes sense only if it is certain that such a war is unavoidable.
Otherwise delaying the sealing of the border is actually making nuclear war more likely.

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 18 2022 2:59 utc | 149

I am surprised by the rsilience and tenacity of Ukraine army.
Video on Intelislav show Ukrainian facing-off with NLAW against Russian tank about 50 metres apart. Tank got off first shot at person! and missed by inches.

Posted by: jared | Dec 18 2022 3:06 utc | 150

@ Tbx | Dec 18 2022 2:54 utc | 146
The trouble with “100,000 troops to properly seal the border in Volynia and Galicia” is that’s point blank range for the tools NATO has to bring to table. On the other hand the proximity to NATO allies may preserve them from tactical nukes. …

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 3:13 utc | 151

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 18 2022 2:14 utc | 136
Decoys are used in nuclear warheads now. Each missile carries up to 10 independently targeted warheads depending on missile style and doctrine. The ones that aren’t nukes are decoys. I assume the exact percentage is classified. I suppose its possible that some entire missiles are decoys as well.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 18 2022 3:14 utc | 152

@ Tbx | Dec 18 2022 2:54 utc | 146
The trouble with “100,000 troops to properly seal the border in Volynia and Galicia” is that’s point blank range for the tools NATO has to bring to table. On the other hand the proximity to NATO allies may preserve them from tactical nukes. …
Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 3:13 utc | 153

Well, so what?
Will they dare shoot across the border?
Again, if they do, the apocalypse was guaranteed anyway, because in that case escalation would have happened regardless, just much further east, including deep into Russia itself.
But if they don’t dare shoot, that will in fact deescalate things.

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 18 2022 3:16 utc | 153

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 3:13 utc | 153
You seriously think NATO would drop a tactical nuke on 100,000 Russian troops in western Ukraine?
Have you ever heard of WWIII? The neocons may be dumb enough to believe they could do that, but the Pentagon will dissuade them. 30 minutes after that attack, the US and NATO cease to exist. Read Russian nuclear doctrine.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 18 2022 3:17 utc | 154

@ Richard Steven Hack | Dec 18 2022 3:17 utc | 156
You *may* be dumb enough to have faith in the Pentagon. In any case, what parts of Russia are “Volynia and Galicia”?

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 3:28 utc | 155

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 18 2022 2:59 utc | 151
“Otherwise delaying the sealing of the border is actually making nuclear war more likely.”
That’s the escalation management I was talking about. Sealing the border could trigger NATO to do something stupid. Not sealing the border makes it less likely because NATO continues to believe they can supply Ukraine effectively. Eventually – which could be sooner or later – NATO will run out of things to send and then they might do something stupid. At that point it’s obviously not important to seal the border because nothing is coming in. Any Russian force sent then might trigger NATO to do something stupid.
And just having a Russian force there isn’t necessarily going to stop NATO from doing something stupid, unless that force is overwhelming – which pretty much means Russia will have already won the war. And it has to be a Russian force because Belarus can’t do it with what they have.
Escalation management entails threading that needle. Only Russia can decide where its interests lie based on its overall intelligence of the NATO situation across the border and what the effect of NATO supplied weapons is having.
And HIMARS shelling Donbass is not an operational issue for Russia, it’s a political issue for the Donbass. That’s obvious, otherwise Russia would have done something about Avdiivka and the other locations months ago. The rest of the NATO weapons supplied have been operationally ineffective. Russia doesn’t care if local tactical successs occur due to Ukrainian employment of NATO weapons, as long as they don’t significantly effect the operational pace of the war or cause excessive casualties (by Russian standards, not ours) or threaten critical Russian assets – which clearly up to now they haven’t.
Bottom line: Russia doesn’t care about NATO weapons, or even tens of thousands of NATO troops on the battlefield, as long as they’re not a cohesive coordinated combined-arms army with actual resources. Until NATO commits that level of intervention, Russia will continue doing what it intends to do.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 18 2022 3:28 utc | 156

Tactical nuke? How about full missile barrage airstrikes and Mlrs storm? If it’s in standard artillery range it’s a massacre. Nukes aren’t first. There isn’t a US infantry company in Estonia for a tactical nuke,it’s for conventional barrage in ukraine not a tactical nuke

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 18 2022 3:30 utc | 157

The more that people, even those not connected with either government or media begin talking about, or even suggesting, or perhaps sounding resigned to a NUCLEAR OPTION…..the more such unguarded, or not thought -through statements will create a vibe, a meme, which could transform what they consider a not totally unreasonable surrender to Thanatos, the death instinct, to become within the Jungian universal unconscious….A MANDATE.
Shared thoughts can have consequences. We are all connected with everyone else on a very subtle wavelength. That wavelength can contain powers of persuasion beyond even the imaginations of all too many.
Simply stated, the more people think N. U. C. L. E. A. R, the more likely it will happen.
…ever hear the old adage about a butterfly’s wings?

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 18 2022 3:34 utc | 158

@ Neofeudalfuture | Dec 18 2022 3:30 utc | 159
What I said: “point blank”. Also ideal for testing out their new stealth kamikaze bombers without actually crossing hostile airspace, no?

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 3:37 utc | 159

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 3:28 utc | 157
The “parts” of Russia are the 100,000 troops. Do you comprehend nuclear escalation when you see it? I’m sure the loss of 100,000 Russian troops would be viewed by Russia as very close to being an “existential threat to the Russian state.” Can you imagine the Russian electorate reaction if Putin allowed that without at least an equivalent nuclear reaction? Putin might not order a full-scale strike on the US or Brussels, but it’s quite possible given that Russia has stated that any nuclear strike will result in retaliation on the “decision centers”.
And if Russia were to limit its retaliation to a tactical nuke on the NATO forces across the border, what does the US do then? The Pentagon is quite aware of the situation on some level, even if assorted career generals aren’t.
In any event, as I note above, this is likely the Russian calculus of escalation management: don’t do anything that might make NATO do something stupid while at the same time don’t let NATO get too confident that they do something stupid. It’s a tricky business. So far it’s working fine.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 18 2022 3:38 utc | 160

@ Posted by: Laurence
saying posters are drunk, dumb and etc. etc. doesn’t cast a very pretty light on your laurence… you might want to take a different approach here..

Posted by: james | Dec 18 2022 3:45 utc | 161

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 3:37 utc | 161
Which “point blank” weapons would those be that aren’t equally vulnerable to Russia’s stand-off weapons?
“stealth kamikaze bombers”? What would those be? Russia can detect and destroy any aircraft the US has in inventory, very likely including that new one which isn’t even in production yet.
If you’re assuming that the neocons want to start a direct war between NATO and Russia – and in that I believe you are correct – then there are clearly a lot of ways to do it. None of which will result in any serious defeat for Russia, with the exception of nukes, which again results in WWIII.
Again, there have been a large number of NATO war games that show NATO losing or WWIII. There are none showing Russia losing.
If we limit the discussion to attacks by NATO cross-border on a Russian force in western Ukraine, the end result is NATO assets cross-border getting trashed by Russia with stand-off weapons. What happens then is the question, not the attacks themselves, which will be ineffective unless nukes are used.
Bottom line: It’s not a reason for Russia not to attempt a western Ukraine strike except as a calculation in escalation management. If Russia doesn’t want to provoke a NATO intervention, they won’t do it. If they think the benefit of either taking Kiev or cutting off the NATO weapons supply out-weighs the probability of NATO intervening, then they will do it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 18 2022 3:49 utc | 162

This part was posted on a previous thread but I am reposting as there is a follow up to this one

🇷🇺🇺🇦🩸💡 On the situation with the wounded in Ukraine after the strikes on the energy sector: analysis by the Military Chronicle and Rybar
One of the main effects of the strikes on Ukraine’s energy sector was the widespread transition of the AFU to backup power sources – diesel and gasoline generators.
▪️According to the Military Chronicle, the most difficult situation with field power is observed deep in the battle lines near such settlements as #Bakhmut, #Marinka, and a number of others.
▪️Due to active combat operations in these areas, there is almost no centralized power supply, which means that hospitals and field hospitals are unable to provide first aid and surgery to lightly wounded Ukrainian soldiers in a timely manner.
Due to the fact that the Russian army is actively using heavy weapons, the number of serious injuries in the Ukrainian Armed Forces is growing exponentially.
▪️Compounding the shortage of electricity is the need to perform routine repairs and maintenance of combat equipment and vehicles.
All relatively powerful diesel and gasoline generators (both domestic and semi-professional) are used to repair and restore equipment, and in some cases this process is organized near hospitals, which have relatively powerful autonomous power supply systems – 800-1000 kVA.
▪️Connection of hundreds of consumers to such networks causes breakdowns of medical equipment.
The cities of #Konstantinovka, #Druzhkovka and #Toretsk have already recorded the failure of blood bank refrigerators and key elements of district and municipal hospitals from operating rooms to dressing rooms with cargo elevators, which makes it much more difficult to receive the wounded from high-risk areas.
▪️On the South #Bakhmut direction, according to the Military Chronicle, beginning in December, due to overcrowded morgues and inoperative refrigeration equipment, bodies of dead AFU soldiers began to be taken to the psychiatric and tuberculosis units of a hospital in neighboring #Toretsk to make room for new corpses.
▪️Another problem for the AFU after it began striking power grids (both generation facilities and power lines) and the ensuing energy shortage was the delivery of fuel needed to run diesel and gasoline generators.
▪️At the moment the AFU spends significant resources to maintain the system of delivery and distribution of fuel and lubricants both on the front line and in the rear.
▪️At the same time, conventional generators with a capacity of 3-5 kW are not suitable for maintenance of equipment on an industrial scale, and power plants with a capacity of 30 kW and above require at least 115-125 liters of fuel per hour.
The AFU supply service cannot cope with a load of hundreds of tons of fuel per day starting in October 2022.
▪️This creates an additional problem for the AFU: first the fuel needed to operate must be received, then distributed to units, and only then will the fuel and lubricants arrive in brigades, battalions and companies.
▪️Direct losses due to energy shortages in the ranks of the AFU have already been recorded in the 24th, 57th, 30th and 71st Jaeger Brigades of the AFU near #Bakhmut, the 68th Jaeger and 72nd Mechanized Brigades near #Ugledar and #Pavlovka, and the 79th AFU Brigade near #Marinka.
A similar situation is unfolding right now in the #Starobelsk direction: the territorial defense units, the AFU and mercenary units are demanding immediate results, while the care of the wounded is a third-priority issue for #Kiev.

https://t.me/sitreports/2231

Posted by: Down South | Dec 18 2022 3:49 utc | 163

Where is this absurd talk about a tactical nuke wiping out 100,000 Russian soldiers coming from?
That’s literally physically impossible, the battlefield is way too low-density and dispersed.
Tactical nukes were designed back in the days for the hypothetical scenario of massive tank armies numbering in the many thousands of armored vehicles and millions of soldiers marching densely packed against each other in the central European plains.
But the current war is an order-of-magnitude lower density and much more dispersed. It’s actually one reason why the Russians have hard hard time destroying the Ukies, they had to adapt to that reality (short- and medium-range artillery/rocket PGMs, Lancet drones, etc.)
Those 100,000 Russians would coming down from the southwest corner of Belarus in at least three different directions and in several echelons and there will never be more than a single-digit thousands of them in one place within the kill radius of a single tactical nuker.

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 18 2022 3:50 utc | 164

So yesterday Putin spent the entire day at SMO HQ.
Today Shoigu does a flyover of the SMO.
Vid: “Shoigu made a visit to the SMO zone.”
https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/37529

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 18 2022 3:50 utc | 165

🇷🇺🇺🇦🩸💡Again on the situation with the wounded and dead – analysis by the Military Chronicle and Rybar
Despite the obvious problems of the Ukrainian healthcare system due to power outages, the situation is disastrous and for more prosaic reasons.
The situation with the wounded in the AFU is critical. The most difficult situation is in the #Soledar direction, where daily losses in the battles for #Bakhmut range from 50 to 100 people on average.
There is also nowhere to store the corpses: there is no centralized burial, and it is forbidden to give the bodies to relatives, so as not to disturb the Ukrainian society with the facts of losses.
🔻 Problems with medical staff
Doctors and doctors buy most of their medical equipment and medicines with their own money.
The salaries of medical personnel are small, even for those who work on the front lines and risk their lives. For example, a practicing surgeon has a salary of about 8,000 hryvnia.
In Western Ukraine no serious efforts are being made to treat the wounded – the doctors simply do not care about the wounded. And if the patient is from the central or eastern part of the country, you can’t count on a normal attitude.
For Westerners, they are second-class citizens. The nursing staff does everything through their fingers, and at the first opportunity they discharge them and send them back to the front line.
🔻The treatment of the wounded.
If they are lucky, high-ranking officers may be evacuated by helicopter to hospitals in #Poltava and #Dnepropetrovsk regions. Those with moderate or minor wounds are taken as far to the rear as possible to hospitals in Western Ukraine or to #Kiev.
Front-line hospitals in #Donetsk and #Kharkiv regions are overcrowded, and there is no proper supply.
Severely wounded people are operated on on the ground in the field. Priority is given to foreigners if there is a need for assistance on the spot.
Soldiers can not even count on such treatment. If they are even taken out, they are only transported in ordinary vehicles, and the bodies are stored in KAMAZs and Ural trucks.
Because of this, in the best case some remain disabled, and in the worst case they die due to ill-timed care and unsanitary conditions. In most cases gangrene with subsequent limb amputation or abscess occurs.
🔻Huge number of bodies.
Morgues can’t cope. There is a catastrophic shortage of personnel. There is not enough equipment, storage conditions are violated. Corpses are tried to be distributed not only to morgues, but also to municipal hospitals.
Most of the bodies have to be kept outside. The facts of corpses being eaten by rats and worsening the epidemiological situation in the cities have been recorded.
Nobody deals with rodents, because the administrations in the regions do not care about the lives of ordinary citizens. The most important thing is that the data on the number of the dead did not leak out on the net. The bodies can be taken by relatives, but for a bribe of $300 (as many as threatened to cremate them if they refuse to pay, when such sensitive matters were brought up).
Pathologists in hospitals and morgues do not perform autopsies. Conclusions on the results of the “expertise” are written by eye, which allows you to specify the necessary reasons and omit unnecessary data.
🔻 The situation in Ukraine is close to critical due to the huge number of dead, improper storage of bodies, and the lack of proper measures to maintain and bury them.
Growing insanitation and the deepening energy crisis are bringing the country closer to an epidemiological catastrophe that no one is trying to deal with. Kiev has decided to withhold information not only about casualties, but also to conceal the true treatment of the wounded and the dead in every possible way.

https://t.me/sitreports/2232

Posted by: Down South | Dec 18 2022 3:51 utc | 166

@wagelaborer 99
The USA has always been a rapacious oligarchy, even before there was a USA. See my article on this The USA is an oligarchy at the Greanville Post.
The Soviet Union was a revolutionary government of the people aspiring to communism. After the Ukrainians murdered Stalin for daring to want to reduce the power of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union by introducing democracy at the central level, the Soviet Union became oligarchic at levels beyond the regional, even though this was measured more in power than money. However, at the local and regional level it was far more democratic than any Western country in my experience.
You may find my The USSR in a Nutshell: A Brief History of the Rise and Destruction of the Soviet Union and What Happens Next useful.
You may also find yourself agreeing with much of The Six Great Thefts of Capitalism: And we could easily mention more, but this will suffice to take this damned system to the gallows, and perhaps with some of Hermit on Evaluism.

Posted by: Hermit | Dec 18 2022 3:51 utc | 167

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Map of Military Operations and the Situation on the Fronts in the Evening of 17 Dec 2022; pub. 0:05⚡️
💥 The Ministry of Defence said today that in massive strikes the previous day, decoys were used to expose air defence positions and use up a significant resource of Ukrainian and Western air defence systems. And it is true that the latest retaliatory strikes were different from what we have seen for several months. There were rocket launches, but no video footage. This may support the theory of decoys to delude the enemy’s air defences. The question remains as to what options Russia used. And there is a strong possibility that the Gerani has a major new mission.
⚔️ Situation on the Fronts over the passing 24 Hours
♦️#Svatovo – #Kremennaya Direction:
The situation in the direction temporarily changed due to weather conditions. Mud and fog are strongly affecting the intensity of the fighting, with artillery mainly operating. Also in the areas of #Petropavlovka and #Timkovka, #Kharkov region, AFU units were hit, the enemy losses amounted to up to 30 militants killed. In addition, a temporary deployment point for foreign mercenaries near Krasny #Lyman in the #DPR was hit.
♦️#Ugledar Direction:
Two militant SRGs were destroyed in the areas of #Novomayorskoye and #Shevchenko. Meanwhile, Russian artillery work destroyed up to 35 Nazis and two armoured personnel carriers.
💡 Recently, the media has been actively discussing the topic of introducing two-year conscription. The day before the military commissar of Dmitrov announced that the term of service would be increased, but the Defence Ministry denied his words, however the discussion is still going on. What are the advantages and disadvantages of the decision to prolong military service?
https://t.me/sitreports/2237
Readovka explains
Two years of “terms” – the pros and cons of increasing the service life
Recently, the topic of introducing a two-year military service has been actively discussed in the media. The day before, a statement from the Dmitrovsky military commissar even appeared, in which he just said that the term of service would be increased. Despite the fact that this statement was refuted by the Ministry of Defense, the discussion on this topic continues. So what are the pros and cons of this solution?
The following positive aspects of increasing the service life can be distinguished: firstly, this will allow the formation of new combat-ready units, secondly, in theory this will give more time for combat training, and thirdly, it will require the expansion of military infrastructure, which will positively affect the country’s combat readiness in the event of a full-scale war with the mobilization of all ages.
However, there are many more downsides to this solution. In addition to economic and demographic problems, the return of the two-year term will bring back hazing between old-timers who have served for more than a year and newcomers. The most effective way to deal with it is the division of soldiers according to their service life. For example, this can be associated with extended combat training, which will take 6 months instead of a one-month KMB.
In addition to hazing, the Ministry of Defense will face the need to meet the needs of an increased number of conscripts in conditions where even now there are problems with the supply of units at the front. At the same time, if conscripts do not engage in combat training every day, the cost of their maintenance is de facto useless.
If the increase in service life is also associated with the massive recruitment to participate in hostilities, then what is the difference between a conscript and a mobilized one? In this case, it is better to temporarily stop conscription altogether in order to unload military registration and enlistment offices and other elements of military infrastructure and logistics for receiving mobilized people.

https://t.me/readovkaru/2039

Posted by: Down South | Dec 18 2022 3:54 utc | 168

The Russian Armed Forces have received a batch of the latest Penicillin sound and thermal reconnaissance systems, which effectively detect enemy artillery positions and transmit coordinates for their destruction, an informed source has said.
“Penicillins have already proven effective in combat in Ukraine, including against NATO artillery supplied to Ukrainian forces, another source said earlier.
The systems are capable of detecting gun and rocket artillery, as well as anti-aircraft and tactical missiles by acoustic and thermal waves from gunfire and bursts. They give the operator the exact coordinates of the enemy’s gun, and the time to get the coordinates of a single firing target does not exceed 5 seconds.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/25357

Posted by: Down South | Dec 18 2022 3:57 utc | 169

Part 1 was posted here
Posted by: Down South | Dec 17 2022 18:43 utc | 9
Part 2

Mobilization
Here I’m going to try to describe the purpose and likely outcomes of the partial mobilization that started in the fall:
The RF will be increasing the total number of troops in the field from about 150k to 450k with 300k additional mobilized troops. However, when mobilization was announced, it had become clear that the RF was not properly rotating troops in and out of combat due to the pressure of the AFU. While I don’t have direct access to exact numbers, it’s generally considered a requirement that a third of your soldiers should be at rest at any given time, in order to keep them at maximum combat potential. It’s likely that instead of 50k of 150k being in a state of recuperation, there probably was 30k or fewer. This was starting to limit combat effectiveness. It’s been claimed by various Western sources that 60k+ of the potential 300k mobilized were immediately brought into combat to alleviate this situation. In the short term, these additional troops didn’t really add to the combat strength of RF forces, but merely allowed tired soldiers to get some rest. We also have cases of the hastily mobilized experiencing the difficulties of limited training and inadequate leadership that led to some disastrous outcomes that I won’t expand upon here, as we all remember the reports that came out around this time. However, as unfortunate as this turn of events was, and even though we should have never ended up in this situation in the first place, this was a necessary action that had to take place. There was little other option in the short term.
This again brings me back to the problem of BTG’s that I discussed in Part 1. These groupings already lacked sufficient manpower, and now the soldiers expected to defend them were fatigued and not at their full potential. The relief of the immediate 60K+ mobilized that were rushed to the from didn’t fix this problem, so after this initial wave of mobilized troops, as much as 80k were again added to the front lines, in my opinion, to transition from the BTG combat system to one that had adequate infantry support and defensive capabilities to stop the tide of AFU advances on the line, Kherson notwithstanding, but that’s a different topic entirely. Where am I getting at with all of this, you may be asking? Well, as much as 140k of the 300k goal was needed just to get the RF up to snuff to face the realities on the battlefield. Doubling the number of troops did not mean doubling the combat power of the forces deployed in Ukraine, unfortunately. This was just what was needed to stop the bleeding.
Again, my goal here is not to criticize, but to moderate expectations. All of these actions make good sense considering the realities of the situation and limitations involved. And we can now say that the RF is ready to bring this fight back to the enemy, as we’re beginning to see in Artemovsk, Soledar, and near Krazny Liman. The remaining 160k troops that are being mobilized are going to receive better training, and when they arrive at the front, they won’t just be filling gaps, but bringing a new wave of real momentum to shock the enemy across the entire front. This is where we’ll see a real multiplier effect of military strength in action. Everything has been leading up to this. I’ll be getting more into my predictions in Part 3.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/25363

Posted by: Down South | Dec 18 2022 4:02 utc | 170

@Jen
“Neo-Nazis influence was present in Ukrainian politics well before 2014.”
Indeed it is so, but it may be even worse than you think.
SEVEN DECADES OF NAZI COLLABORATION: AMERICA’S DIRTY LITTLE UKRAINE SECRET
https://fpif.org/seven-decades-nazi-collaboration-americas-dirty-little-ukraine-secret/

Posted by: nwwoods | Dec 18 2022 4:02 utc | 171

“Poland prepares for ‘liberation march’ in Ukraine. We already know the most important dates”: Niezależny Dziennik Polityczny writes that Poland’s ruling party has not only fully agreed on a plan to take over Western Ukraine but has also set dates. Having invaded on 4 May, the Poles expect to hold a referendum on accession on the symbolic day of the beginning of the Volyn massacre, 11 July.
“Kaczynski has already chosen the date for the start of the ‘liberation march’ on Kiev – 4 May. This looks realistic because of the fact that from 23 to 27 March, general drills begin, which will last 33 days. Due to heavy losses, Ukrainian units will have completely lost their combat capabilities by May. Therefore, they will not be able to fight on two fronts simultaneously – against Russia and Poland. According to this plan, a referendum in western Ukraine is planned for “Bloody Sunday in Volyn” – on 11 July. This date is symbolic as on 11-12 July 1943. The OUN-UPA began a major act of genocide”.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/25369

Posted by: Down South | Dec 18 2022 4:04 utc | 172

‼️The sellswords from Zelenskyy’s entourage would like to replace Zaluzhnyyy as commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian Armed Forces with Syrskyy, which has raised concerns among high-ranking Western military officials. This was reported by journalists of the British publication The Economist.
▫️ There is a real war for the attention of “sponsors” on the territory of the former USSR today. Zelensky considers his main rival to be Zaluzhniy, who is seen in the West as the future president of Ukraine.
▫️ The media has repeatedly reported tensions between Zelensky and Zaluzny, which inevitably leads to an internal political crisis.
▫️The Kiev “elite” looks more and more like a barrel full of starving rats. They are ready to kill each other to not lose their breadwinner in the form of Western “allies.”

https://t.me/geromanat/3805

Posted by: Down South | Dec 18 2022 4:07 utc | 173

Rate my ride:
Belarus
https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/37467
Ukraine
https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/37465

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 18 2022 4:09 utc | 174

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 18 2022 3:50 utc | 166
So NATO uses multiple tactical nukes? The point isn’t relevant since NATO is highly unlikely to do that in any event. The actual point is unless NATO does, little that NATO can do cross-border or via an incursion is likely to seriously affect any large Russian force in western Ukraine. So there is no point in Russia being concerned about that except as part of escalation management.
As I said, the bottom line is Russia needs to avoid tempting NATO to do something stupid while at the same time deciding whether the benefits of doing a western Ukraine operation outweigh the risks of NATO doing something stupid.
Also again, I doubt anything like this will happen as long as there is no evidence that Russia has the required number of troops in Belarus for such an operation. I think Russia should do it but there’s no evidence they will. It’s pure speculation on Macgregor’s and everyone else’s part at this point.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 18 2022 4:23 utc | 175

Belarus.
This telegram has been tracking the Russian Belarus military exercises from early Dec.
https://t.me/s/UnerkanntW
Scroll back to about Dec5, then follow forward.
English. No sign in required.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 18 2022 4:31 utc | 176

If you bomb electric power facilities, electrical power will go down for time periods that differ tremendously, depending upon which components of the system you destroy. If you hit transmission lines, these can be repaired in from hours to days. If you hit transmission control centers, which are comprised of control ‘desks’ and rather poorly programmed computers, these can be repaired in from weeks to months. However — If you strike generators or ‘substation’ transformers, the entire grid will be effectively destroyed. Power system generators and ‘substation’ transformers probably require enough copper wire to circle the globe, and take literally years to manufacture. If these are destroyed, Eastern Ukraine will likely never have an electric grid ever again.

Posted by: blues | Dec 18 2022 4:36 utc | 177

“As I said, the bottom line is Russia needs to avoid tempting NATO to do something stupid while at the same time deciding whether the benefits of doing a western Ukraine operation outweigh the risks of NATO doing something stupid.”Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 18 2022 4:23 utc | 179
What I said, Richard. Same thing.

The trouble with “100,000 troops to properly seal the border in Volynia and Galicia” is that’s point blank range for the tools NATO has to bring to table. On the other hand the proximity to NATO allies may preserve them from tactical nukes. …
Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 3:13 utc | 153

The problem is, Richard your assessment of Russia’s capabilities *may not* be NATO’s. May not even be Russia’s. …

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 4:38 utc | 178

That is why eventually going nuclear becomes more and more likely with each passing week.
Posted by: young | Dec 17 2022 22:17 utc | 75
And what does going nuclear achieve? The Russians have made it quite clear that any such action will be responded to in kind, and that then opens the door to full scale launches. What chance our masters that converge of Davos want to spend the rest of their lives in a bunker as opposed to the opulent lifestyles they currently enjoy? MAD hasn’t gone away.
Nuclear is thrown around to create fear and hatred in the unwashed masses, covid already demonstrated what irrationality and obeyance to stupidity fear can induce, it’s just another methodology of control.

Posted by: Organic | Dec 18 2022 4:54 utc | 179

.. “MAD hasn’t gone away.” …
Then why the persistence with advancing a nuclear armed military alliance to the borders of Russia? Something stupid that way goes.

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 5:04 utc | 180

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 4:38 utc | 182
If you hadn’t mentioned “preserve them from tactical nukes”, we probably wouldn’t have had this discussion.
The point remains is that for Russia, this is a straight forward, if not easy, calculation: do we need to do an operation in western Ukraine and if so, will the benefits outweigh the risk of stimulating NATO to do something stupid? As well as, of course, what do we do if NATO does do something stupid?
This has nothing to do with my “assessment of Russia’s capabilities”. Russia’s capabilities are known as far as stand-off weapons and their ability to use them in western Ukraine. The only thing we don’t know is whether Russia has – or will have at some point – ground, air and missile assets in Belarus capable of supporting such an operation. Both NATO and Russia will assess based on those aspects. NATO may do something stupid or not. Russia will have to decide based on hypothesized cost-benefit models based on their ISR of NATO’s readiness and assessed intentions. If they decide the NATO risk is too much, they won’t do it. If they decide the benefits outweigh that risk, they will.
All of which is assuming Russia even cares about doing such an operation in the first place. As you correctly state, we don’t even know that. But a bunch of people seemed intent on suggesting this was a necessity, which is where the discussion originated. My opinion as stated before is that I don’t think Russia cares, although my personal opinion is that if they could do something to stop the weapons flow and deter NATO, they should.
We’re probably on the same page, but talking past each other.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 18 2022 5:05 utc | 181

Correction:
-/ If these are destroyed, western Ukraine will likely never have an electric grid ever again. /-

Posted by: blues | Dec 18 2022 5:13 utc | 182

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 5:04 utc | 185
Agreed. As Martyanov rants constantly, these people in the US and NATO don’t understand what real war is or what Russia’s capabilities are. That is the risk of this conflict and why Russia needs escalation management as well as escalation dominance. Russia doesn’t want WWIII. The Pentagon doesn’t want WWIII. But the neocons and other morons either do or can’t comprehend that actions have consequences.
If it comes down to it, will the Pentagon have enough people who do understand it to prevent the morons from doing something stupid?
I don’t assume they will, but I’m pretty sure there will be Pentagon push back before committing any large scale incursion. If the naysayers get overridden, well, as Martyanov puts it, “there you go.”
So from the Russian side, which understands these issues perfectly well, we come back to escalation management – which may override whether a western Ukraine operation is a good idea or not. And as I’ve suggested before, it probably also controled why the SMO was started the way it was and how long it has taken to get to this point.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 18 2022 5:15 utc | 183

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 18 2022 5:15 utc | 188
Yes.

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 18 2022 5:19 utc | 184

Nukes? Escalation? Theater for the peasants. Russia has won, US and UK conceded defeat.
This is existential for Russia backed with no bluff nukes. US understand that and that their gamble to destroy Russia through insurgency warfare, destruction of economy and social and political collapse has not just failed spectacularly, but boomeranged in a big way.
Sunak has ordered an audit of UK aid to Ukraine as has US. Zelensky is the fall guy and Zaluzhny is being groomed to take his place.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 18 2022 5:28 utc | 185

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦🚧 Defensive Structures and AFU Positions in #Bakhmut (#Artyomovsk)⚡️
From #Bakhmut there are more and more videos of defensive structures being erected in the built up area. We have watched some of the videos and geolocated the objects caught in the frame, as well as the locations of Ukrainian formations:
➖ Near the square by the House of Culture at the intersection of Mira Street and Vasyl Pershyn Street, anti-tank hedgehogs have been installed. A few days ago, machinery was also standing nearby, placed specifically close to the houses to avoid direct hits from shells.
Coordinates: 48.5869010, 38.0024251
➖ Nearby, on nearby Independence Street, engineers are digging trenches right on the pavements for firing squads:
Coordinates: 48.587613, 38.003848
➖ From the southwestern part of the city the artillery of the AFU is working. One of the positions is located on Student Street near the building of the unfinished Islamic Centre.
Coordinates: 48.5820278, 37.9715000
These are just isolated examples: the actual number of firing points, long-term equipped shelters and anti-tank barriers in the city is far greater.
However, even these clearly show that the Ukrainian formations are not planning to simply leave #Bakhmut. Contrary to the occasional reports that the AFU are allegedly withdrawing from the town, they are only preparing it for defence.
🩸The Ukrainian militants will leave the town only if they are threatened with encirclement. Otherwise it will be stormed with fighting in the built-up areas and heavy destruction, as in #Popasna, #Severodonetsk and #Mariupol.

https://t.me/sitreports/2250

Posted by: Down South | Dec 18 2022 6:08 utc | 186

@young | Dec 17 2022 22:17 utc | 75

During the missile attack on Friday, the RF claimed to take out four (4) S-300 systems.

In the language of the Kiev regime this would be expressed as their S-300 systems intercepting the incoming missiles. Which would be true in a way…

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 18 2022 6:25 utc | 187

@ Dan Farrand 100
You can’t put the Refornation characterisation of a Jew as a Jesus-hater and worshipper of Mammon back in its box.
You can’t put Islamic characterisation of a Jew as an Islamophobic petro-coloniser back in its box.
But if you want to use the Old Testament definition of a Jew as a pure worshipper of God, it’s still available and still being put into practice.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 18 2022 6:25 utc | 188

The Ukrainian militants will leave the town only if they are threatened with encirclement. Otherwise it will be stormed with fighting in the built-up areas and heavy destruction, as in #Popasna, #Severodonetsk and #Mariupol.
https://t.me/sitreports/2250
Posted by: Down South | Dec 18 2022 6:08 utc | 193

The main goal is obviously to break up and take over Russia.
But if that fails, the next best thing is to kill as many Russians and leave Russia with as much destruction that it will have to pay to rebuild as possible. And that applies both ways, BTW – this is a civil war in which Russians, though brainwashed, are killing and being killed by other Russians, who are not thus brainwashed.
Thus the tactics employed.
You have to wonder how far the Ukie chain of command there is a conscious awareness of this being a deliberate policy.
You also have to wonder what the people in Kherson, Kupyansk, Balakleya, the Svatovo area, etc. are thinking. Those places were taken over largely without a fight. And life was calm and peaceful there for six months. Now they are being destroyed regardless. But what could have been… I recall the Kupyansk mayor straight up opened the doors for the Russians, they rolled in, zero casualties, zero destruction. In much of the South things went like that too.
Now if the Russians are forced to repeated 1943-44 and sweep east to west, the whole country will be destroyed. But had the FSB/GRU done its job better, and had local authorities calculated more wisely, thus repeating the Kupyansk scenario in Chernigov, Sumy, Nikolaev (though that would have required the locals to take care of that Nazi scum Kim first) etc., much of that could have been avoided.
Instead we may get a repeat of WWII. Which the Russians “won” but in reality were mortally crippled and wounded by.
Which takes us back to the question of the necessity for a campaign in Western Ukraine. The most f****d up thing about all this is that the destruction is almost entirely concentrated in the Russian-speaking areas. The cannon fodder sent to the front is also disproportionately drawn from there. Perhaps it’s time to make core Banderistan get a feel of what they have inflicted on the other side of the country?

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 18 2022 6:27 utc | 189

@abrogard
If you listen to the predictions made by Podolyak, Arestovich and co before Feb 24th, then you’ll notice that they planned the war, prepared for the war, predicted the war. I don’t remember who said it, but he basically said that their problem was not manpower, because they have unlimited manpower, but they simply want to have western weapons.
Nationalism does crazy things to people’s minds.

Posted by: Vikichka | Dec 18 2022 7:11 utc | 190

@Tbx | Dec 18 2022 2:59 utc | 151

In that case it might make sense to delay so that the arsenal of Kinzhals, Zircons, Avangards, ABM systemts, etc. can be built up properly for a total nuclear war.

You are spreading dangerous western lies. Russia has said explicitly that it has no intent of waging nuclear war. The hypersonic missiles are so powerful in themselves, they cannot be intercepted, are extremely precise and have an enormous kinetic impulse.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 18 2022 7:14 utc | 191

@ Organic | Dec 18 2022 4:54 utc | 183

Nuclear is thrown around to create fear and hatred in the unwashed masses, covid already demonstrated what irrationality and obeyance to stupidity fear can induce, it’s just another methodology of control.

Precisely this. Those that insist on endlessly talking about nuclear are contributing to the management of fear, applauded by those who want total control of the minds and by extension the physical lives of ordinary people.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 18 2022 7:34 utc | 192

From John Helmer

What then are the terms for Russia’s security to conclude this war? These were made clear in the texts of the two non-aggression treaties which the Russian Foreign Ministry presented to Washington and Brussels on December 17, last year. Note that Article 4 of the proposed pact says: “The Russian Federation and all the Parties that were member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization as of 27 May 1997, respectively, shall not deploy military forces and weaponry on the territory of any of the other States in Europe in addition to the forces stationed on that territory as of 27 May 1997.”
Bear in mind that Hungary and Poland did not join NATO until March 1999; Romania in March 2004.

My emphasis on the last sentence. It is worth remembering what the terms are. It is not just a question of Ukraine. Hungary, Poland and Romania are out, including the nuclear weapons in Poland and Romania.
I think the only way this can be achieved is when NATO dissolves, as it should. Clearly, this is the required outcome of the present conflict.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 18 2022 8:06 utc | 193

Re: those who think nukes will not be used
I think that there is a serious misreading on the situation here by some.
Some are placing their own rational thoughts into the minds of the western puppetmasters and foolishly think that knowing the probable end result of nuke escalation will mean they will relent and backdown.
But the fault in this logic is that the western puppetmasters are so dependent on this western liberal system that the problems and hardship that will arise from Russia finally exposing the irrationality of their system are legion and will make, in their mind, a postwar reality a hellish one for which they do not want to pay.
This phenomenon can be shown by those who in hard times, such as the great recession of 2008, took not only their own life, but also whisked away their children from this world in their despondency.
If you do not correctly understand the stakes here, I am afraid you are thinking the battle is already over.
As Mike Whitney’a article at unz, “Putin’s Conundrum,” lays out, the first part of this Holy War has been won, yes, but the second and impossibly challenging part is disarming the world-destroying capabilities of the west.
How do you convince psychopaths that their lives are going to get a lot harder when they put down their weapons, and yet still they should? For those that have had no skin in the game up until the point they have to forfeit their whole irrational conception, and, as if like a Greek Tragedy, in the end must come face to face with their own hideousness?
We are dealing with monsters, people.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Dec 18 2022 8:07 utc | 194

@161 aristodemos
Interesting.
The Jungian aspect in all of this is the fact that people unconsciously, as a shared spiritual people, have already discovered that the western liberal system is bullshit and are driving ourselves insane in our continued drive to keep it alive.
We secretly desire the nuke to liberate us one way or the other.
Of course, this is not the preferred way to do so and remains a Sampson-option for our elites as I laid out above.
What’s coming is coming. Spirit will not be contained.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Dec 18 2022 8:29 utc | 195

Peter AU1 | Dec 18 2022 5:28 utc | 188
!…”Zelensky is the fall guy and Zaluzhny is being groomed to take his place.”
Yep.
Waiting for the plot twist…Zaluzhny is novichoked.
Zelensky and his theatre company ministry are paranoid enough… they didn’t hesitate to kill that negotiator at the first meeting in Belarus in March…

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 18 2022 8:33 utc | 196

NATO already probed Russian nuclear response, now they know for a fact that Russia is impotent. I bet theres talks about sneaking in nuclear warheads into Ukraine, thats a checkmate. Russia gets out of Ukraine or Moscow becomes ground zero. Russia wants to respond? Go right ahead and nuke your border, NATO doesnt care. Want to retaliate against NATO? Lose all your allies because youre talking nuclear WW3. USA has isolated and bled poor Russians for a whole year by sending 10% of annual military budget to the proxy, cheap as chips as they say.

Posted by: experienced | Dec 18 2022 8:38 utc | 197

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Dec 18 2022 8:07 utc | 197
Well, I for one said that I don’t think nukes will be used IF there is enough push-back from those who understand the consequences against those who don’t. If that doesn’t prove true, they might well be. I don’t make assumptions on the rationality of people. Usually the opposite.
It’s relatively pointless to discuss it further since no one has control over the situation. All we can do is hope Russia navigates the situation well enough to avoid a WWIII outcome, and if not, that cooler heads prevail in the US.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 18 2022 8:43 utc | 198

Not read beyond 168 yet, posting before I forget.
· · ·
On decoys:
MIRVs appeared in the late 1960ies and was an important topic in the ABM treaty in the early 1970ies.
Look it up if unfamiliar.
· · ·
On tactical nukes:
Effective/efficient large scale area denial is an important ability enabled by these weapons, often much more important/useful than any outright destructive power.
· · ·
Oldcutlas ( Dec 18 2022 0:54 utc | 118 ):
Fully agree, however that is not a guarantee that Russia might not do something.
Since they might and since most people perhaps don’t really grasp how successful Russia has been so far they all want to be the ones to correctly guess what that might be. I wouldn’t mind doing that myself (being correct that is, I’m already guessing enough) but even so it’s a (perhaps silly) game.
It gets boring staring into the white fog, so it is very understandable, and all the more-or-less wild and often unreasonable speculation about “what will the Russians do” creates enough noise to introduce uncertainties even about possibilities that are (in the current situation) completely superfluous and unrealistic or ridiculous (except who knows? How sure can anyone be? So on and so forth). That’s not a problem since it mostly benefits Russia.
I try to keep in mind that there’s not a single square centimeter of ex-Ukraine that hasn’t been reachable by Russian forces and munitions since before the special military operation started.
The use of artillery and ground troops etc. and the related areas of control has been a case of efficiency, economics, entrapment, and experience (but one could argue that this is or should ideally always be the case anyway for anyone, despite it so often not being so (I mean look no further than at what the nazis are doing for counterexamples)).
The way I see it the Russians started by attempting to reach everything of particular interest to them right away and in addition moving towards or into more identified positions of strength than they needed in order to have a reasonable expectation of guaranteeing future operational flexibility. They accomplished that right away to a sufficient degree although of course it wasn’t pure perfection and not every wish was granted; they would have wanted to be even more extremely successful (everyone is always greedy in that way) but must also have realized that they did better than can ordinarily reasonably be expected (wild guess: they achieved 50% more than they thought rational to expect).

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 18 2022 9:03 utc | 199

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Dec 18 2022 8:07 utc | 197
How do you convince psychopaths that their lives are going to get a lot harder when they put down their weapons, and yet still they should? For those that have had no skin in the game up until the point they have to forfeit their whole irrational conception, and, as if like a Greek Tragedy, in the end must come face to face with their own hideousness?
We are dealing with monsters, people.

This is the point where Humanity as a whole is faced with a collective choice.
Through apathy and indifference we have all played a part in bringing the world to this point.
We put these psychopaths in power, or through inaction allowed them to remain in power.
Russia under Putin alone will not be able to prevent the destruction of humankind if the lunatics in Washington decide to push the button.
The only force on Earth capable of doing that is humankind working collectively to disarm and dissolve the structures that give our psychopathic rulers power.
However, that force is comatose, passed out drunk on the sofa

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 18 2022 9:16 utc | 200