Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 24, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-234

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Comments

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 24 2022 23:06 utc | 99
Dictionary definition of goad: 1. provoke or annoy (someone) so as to stimulate some action or reaction.
Pretty much the textbook definition of a troll.
Fuck off, troll. And take the rest of your Ukrainian-American Democrats with you. The US and Canada should never have let you into the country. Ukrainians have never been anything but criminals and white trash from the day they migrated there from wherever in human evolution. Can’t wait for the Russians to finish purging the last of you out of Ukraine into Europe where they get to deal with you. Then your land will be farmed by Russians, your factories run by Russians, your government run by Russians, ad whatever women are left will be fucked by Russians.
Have a nice day, Ukrainian.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 24 2022 23:15 utc | 101

This is not a joke or sarcastic or otherwise insincere question. I really wonder, want to know: Is Biden not the clown he’s made out to be and looks like? Could he really have spent hundreds of hours persuading people? He could be coherent that long? He has the mental capacity?
Posted by: abrogard | Dec 24 2022 22:18 utc | 86
He can’t even read a teleprompter properly half the time without his brain wandering off somewhere.
He and his ilk are an embarrassment to any American with half a brain. Sadly, I find it increasingly difficult to locate such people.

Posted by: Michigan Dude | Dec 24 2022 23:29 utc | 102

Saw the other day Nancy Pelosi kiss the hand of Zelensky in Washington, it was a surreal moment, the embracing of the Ukrainian neo-Nazi’s is complete.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 24 2022 14:50 utc | 10
Elensky’s speech to Congress reminded me of Natalie Portman’s line in Star Wars, Revenge of the Sith:
“So this is how liberty dies….with thunderous applause.”

Posted by: Michigan Dude | Dec 24 2022 23:34 utc | 103

Have posted the latest (Dec 24) machine translated Rus MoD briefing on bio weapons here.
https://vk.com/@739151204-kirillov-bio-weapons-briefing-dec-24
Companies like Pfizer used to move research out of government circles and accountability, Fauci ect.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 24 2022 23:37 utc | 104

Speaking of Ukraine scraping the bottom of the barrel re forcibly conscripted Volksturm …’human-sandbags’ …

The Ukrainian Defense Ministry has ordered the mobilization of 20,000 residents of Kharkiv Region and 15,000 people in the temporarily uncontrolled part of Kherson Region, former LNR ambassador to Moscow Rodion Miroshnik said.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 24 2022 23:41 utc | 105

@101 Richard Steven read my substack
Hey were not so different. I guess I’m splitting hairs on the nature of the reaction I’m provoking. It’s not just to annoy but annoy with a purpose.
I want better war so I’m on a mission, and not just on moa, to promote objective understanding. I actually hate the propaganda us vs them emotive BS.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 24 2022 23:42 utc | 106

Not everyone is fond of the Ukrainian flag. Don’t know if this has been posted yet, but take 25 seconds to watch this clip from the Slovakia parliament (especially the end):
Ukrainian flag not a hit in Slovakian parliament
Have a pleasant xmas.

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 24 2022 23:43 utc | 107

In Russian at RIA Novosti is a very powerful essay by Pyotr Akopov built on the shoulders of Putin’s latest two speeches, “Divide and Conquer: The West Is True to Itself”. This excerpt contains the essay’s thesis:

Putin: Russia’s potential adversary has always tried to divide the Russian world–
The President also recalled that in United States back in the Soviet years, “whole institutes worked on Ukraine, < ... > prepared the ground, people were searched, meanings were determined”, and then, after the collapse of the USSR, despite all our efforts, “first we were torn apart, divided, and then pitted against each other.” In this sense, they have achieved results, of course, and in this sense we have suffered a certain fiasco, Putin admitted. But this was not the main thing in his speech:
“No one wants the unification of the Russian people. Disunity – please, it’s a pleasure, they will continue to crumble. But no one wants unification and strengthening except us, and we will do it and we will do it.”
This is the president’s most important statement — not just a programmatic one, but a historic one. Of course, from the very beginning of the special military operation, it was clear that its goal was not just demilitarization and denazification (that is, preventing Ukraine from joining the NATO and the dismantling of the “anti-Russia” project), but also the reunification of the Russian lands and the Russian people. But for the first time, Vladimir Putin said this quite clearly. This is much more than any message from the president: this is a strategic goal of the country and our people.

And the remaining body continues to justify that contention. And when I take the time to review much of what Putin has said over the year, Akopov is 100% correct. The aim by the Outlaw US Empire differs from the “Nationality Problem” from USSR days and has sought through the liberal 5th and 6th Columns to disunite Russia from inside itself. The debacle the author wants to prevent is a repetition of 17 February 1917, the “virus of February 17” as he puts it. IMO, he has nothing to fear as even from afar I can sense the unity of Russia for it exists across all generations and regions. Responsibility for that rests with Putin’s constant reiteration that the needs of the public must be addressed and the public must be listened and responded to by government. Russians must be shown that they matter by those they’ve chosen to govern and especially by those appointed so that they can do their utmost to contribute to strengthening Russia–all of that’s been forgotten by Neoliberal Parasites who view their citizenry as food for them, not the basis of their nation’s power.
And recall that for Russia Christmas doesn’t occur until January 7 and that celebrating New Year is more important than Christmas–Russians are the only people I know who adorn New Year Trees.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 25 2022 0:12 utc | 108

Anyone here come across an in depth analysis of the credibility of the Oryxspioenkop OSINT source?
Their numbers for Russian vs. Ukrainian equipment losses seem odd:
Russian equipment losses:
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html
(Tanks (1590, of which destroyed: 931, damaged: 65, abandoned: 59, captured: 535))
vs. Ukrainian equipment losses:
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html
(Tanks (436, of which destroyed: 255, damaged: 22, abandoned: 16, captured: 143))
The site’s founders seem to be ex-bellingcat, which should tell me all I really need to know, but …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 25 2022 0:24 utc | 109

” Saw the other day Nancy Pelosi kiss the hand of Zelensky in Washington, it was a surreal moment, the embracing of the Ukrainian neo-Nazi’s is complete.
Posted by: Michigan Dude | Dec 24 2022 23:34 utc | 103 ”
A Jewish, Talmudic ” neo-nazi ” .

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 25 2022 0:24 utc | 110

” Ukrainians have never been anything but criminals and white trash from the day they migrated there from wherever in human evolution. Can’t wait for the Russians to finish purging the last of you out of Ukraine into Europe
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 24 2022 23:15 utc | 101 ”
Your tirade goes directly against how Putin views the Ukrainian people. Yet, you support Russia ?

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 25 2022 0:27 utc | 111

OdessaConnected, When you call Neil Cavuto of Fox News a “libtard” you are revealing how little you know about American politics. I stopped reading your comment. Fox is reich-wing.

Posted by: Bob In Portland | Dec 25 2022 0:34 utc | 112

Bill Quick @ 52
Would you please slow down for a sec and inform us as to which planet you reside.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 25 2022 0:36 utc | 113

karlof1 | Dec 25 2022 0:12 utc | 108
The US and UK – Anglo – powers that be have taken us back to the great game of old. Hybrid war is very much the great game. Lavrov says Russia is up to the challenge. Putin speaks of Peter the Great. War in the nuclear era. Positioning and perception management.
A Reuters piece
“KYIV, Dec 24 (Reuters) – A Russian strike on Ukraine’s recently recaptured city of Kherson killed at least 10 people, wounded 58 and left bloodied corpses on the road, authorities said, in what Kyiv condemned as wanton killing for pleasure.”
An older NYT piece
“The Russian missile and drone attacks that killed at least 19 people across Ukraine on Monday were traumatic and wide-ranging, but they were not as deadly as they could have been, in the context of a war that has included widespread civilian killing.
That has renewed questions over the quality of Russia’s weapons and about the capacity of its forces to carry out President Vladimir V. Putin’s military designs.”
…………
Photos of projectile furrows show the strike on Kherson came in from the north. Due to the inability of Russian missiles and artillery to hit our proxy civilians, we have to do it ourselves.
I posted the transcript of the latest Rus mod bio weapons briefing at my VK account earlier. The utter corruption of the US. It is very apparent the US Dem’s are closley linked to the anglo deep state. Echelon/five-eyes.
Pfizer, Fauci, Hunter Biden….
The Turkic stans, some smaller asia pacific countries try to maintain a neutrality or a balance of powers and are alowing US bio weapons programs to either stay in or move in. As Bush said – you are either for or against. There is no neutrality. US does not do diplomacy. 2016 US presidential election, not one candidate had a section marked foreign policy. All had war policy at their sites.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 25 2022 0:45 utc | 114

Fighter aircraft of the Russian Air Force shot down a Su-27 aircraft of the Ukrainian air force near the village of Kamyshevka in the Donetsk People’s Republic. In addition, Ukrainian Mi-24 and Mi-8 helicopters were shot down near the settlements of Selidovo and Gruzskoye in the Donetsk People’s Republic.
💥 Russian anti-aircraft defense forces shot down an Mi-8 helicopter of Ukrainian air forces near Kirovo settlement of Donetsk People’s Republic.
Posted by: Outraged | Dec 24 2022 13:20 utc | 3
This shows Ukrainian forces still have significant aircraft within the Donbass (or are freely able to bring them in). That Russia and the DPR haven’t been able to push them out after 10 months, or at least cut them off from resupplying themselves, shows something is very wrong with the SMO. Russia sent in far too few forces and has fought too weakly and without enough forceful strategy and tactics to neutralize them, at least in that part of Ukraine.

Posted by: MiniMo | Dec 25 2022 0:51 utc | 115

Arch Bungle | Dec 25 2022 0:24 utc | 109
They are just another bellingcrap. Have read about them in the past.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 25 2022 0:52 utc | 116

Kerensky @ 80
Please update yourself: “Ukraine population at 40 million”. With something like 7 million long departed to the EU and scads more on their way or hoping to do so and another couple million gone off to Russia, that leaves 31 million at most. Subtract the high proportion of elders and a fair contingent of those under 16; adults between sixteen and sixty probably add to maybe 20 million at most. Not much left to draw from.

Posted by: arilstodemos | Dec 25 2022 0:58 utc | 117

A U.S. reporter, Michael Grimm, who was a marine and former New York congressman, and who embedded with the Ukrainian forces, said the Ukrainian army was much stronger (I think he was mainly talking about numbers) than the Russian forces. He said the Ukrainian forces are very motivated, determined and confident, while the Russian forces “don’t want to fight.”
I must say his observation seems to match with the fact that it’s mainly just the DPR forces and militia (like the Wagnerians) who are doing the actual fighting (which you can see when you read the details of the reports) and making any, albeit small, progress. The Russian army has lost a lot of ground in the last 4 months and retreated instead of defending when it got tough. Russia didn’t send enough men to hold the land it got in the surprise first several days of the SMO.

Posted by: MiniMO | Dec 25 2022 0:59 utc | 118

Posted by: MiniMo | Dec 25 2022 0:51 utc | 115
Nah, Eastern Europe is/was packed to the brim with Soviet Military gear.
Add to that a sizeable amount of NATO resources is dedicated to procuring and refurbishing these planes and getting them into Ukraine.
Add to that the durability of those jets and there ability to use improvised airstrip and the proper conclusion to come to is that these jets are going to continue to trickle in.
These aircraft aren’t in the Donbass, they are mainly flying in at low altitude from the other side of the Dnieper.
The real question you should be asking is what kind of damage are these jets doing and how many sorties do they average before being shot down.
From what I have seen, they rarely make it to a the combat zone before getting shot down. The ones that make it to a combat zone are quickly knocked out by MANPADS.
However, on occasion an SU-27 or SU-25 slips through and does some damage. This is too be expected, it is war.

Posted by: Haassaan | Dec 25 2022 1:02 utc | 119

PeterAU1/12 22 24 23:37@104
thank you, peter, massive large toast to you with the best scotch in the house, glenlivet 18yr, massive pour & a fine topper. great good on ya! thank you for your archive & a happy christmas eve, christmas to you!
karlof1/12 22 25 0:12 @ 108
thank you karlof & happy christmas to you, your wife & family.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Dec 25 2022 1:13 utc | 120

Posted by: MiniMO | Dec 25 2022 0:59 utc | 118

The Russian army has lost a lot of ground in the last 4 months and retreated instead of defending when it got tough.

New here, I see. Go back over the last few months of threads, there’s lot of good analysis that puts the old “Russia lost ground” nonsense to rest.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 25 2022 1:18 utc | 121

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 25 2022 0:52 utc | 116
That’s the sense I get as well, but I have yet to see an analysis of the b.s they put together.
I’ve got to know exactly how they’re constructing their information.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 25 2022 1:20 utc | 122

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 24 2022 23:43 utc | 107
Also, note that the UA flag is initially upside down.
Learning diplomacy from The Experts:
https://www.businessinsider.com/pentagon-ukraine-flag-upside-down-press-conference-2022-5

Posted by: daffyDuct | Dec 25 2022 1:22 utc | 123

“I’ve got to know exactly how they’re constructing their information.”—Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 25 2022 1:20 utc | 122
How ’bout:
Multiplication By Zero.
Error.
*
REM Also see: Division By Zero Error, Undefined Function Error & Ukrainian Physics
p.s. Hangin’ yer `but’ out like that had me wondering about your true identity.

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 25 2022 1:41 utc | 124

Wishing all a happy solstice! As far as religious meaning goes; Make up your own, they did.

Posted by: vetinLA | Dec 25 2022 1:55 utc | 125

Arch Bungle @ 109
Yenwoda would use Oryx as a source in the days of yore when they posted galore. I’m dubious of the numbers of destroyed tanks documented on the site. I figure there would be much more video and photo evidence all over MSNBC etc if those numbers were true. But…what do I know?

Posted by: Objective Observer | Dec 25 2022 2:04 utc | 126

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 25 2022 1:41 utc | 124
REM Also see: Division By Zero Error, Undefined Function Error & Ukrainian Physics
Oh, come on.
p.s. Hangin’ yer `but’ out like that had me wondering about your true identity.
Yeah, I knew that was coming.
Look. I’m aware that Bellingcat, and their offshoot Oryx produce what should be called “Sophistry”, however what’s concerned me for years now is the technique they use to produce that sophistry.
One example is their MH17 report which was extremely well put together, which I have NEVER once seen debunked in an *analytical* way… and which, by the way, I never believed.
And it seems that nobody in the alternative media has taken the time to understand exactly how Bellingcat and their ilk produce such sophisticated propaganda narratives.
Another example was the narrative their produced around the Skripal affair: For sure, 99% of what they fabricated was rubbish but then it came down to identifying the two Russian “agents” they were able to produce evidence that the agents were not civilians despite Russian claims to the contrary. That question was never addressed satisfactorily by anyone setting out to debunk the Skripal story … and that left the door open for doubt.
If you want know know what I’m really concerned about it is that:
The science and art of creating sophistic arguments, fused with convenient “evidence” and overlaid onto observable reality in such a way as to distort truth to serve any end is becoming more advanced as the years go by, and it is the Western intelligence agencies (primarily British) who are excelling in this field.
If an analytical approach to deconstructing this particular style of sophistry is not developed soon it will get to the point where all we can do is shout “THAT’s PROPAGANDA! IT SMELLS LIKE PROPAGANDA!” but the narrative will be too sophisticated to put one’s finger on exactly where and how it’s “propaganda”.
That’s my New Year’s prophecy and warning …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 25 2022 2:05 utc | 127

Posted by: Objective Observer | Dec 25 2022 2:04 utc | 126
Yenwoda would use Oryx as a source in the days of yore when they posted galore. I’m dubious of the numbers of destroyed tanks documented on the site.
Indeed he did. The claims of tanks destroyed link to images and social media posts identifying each particular tank claimed to have been destroyed.
Impressive at first, and the only argument (which is valid) is that many of those images are fabrications by the AFU themselves, or different perspectives of the same tank (for the Russian side), while Oryx cannot be said to have included all the images available for the Ukrainian side.
Brian Berletic (aka Tony Caralucci) proved this in one of his analyses on The New Atlas channel. However, this is just one case, nobody has produced enough of a sample size to debunk the Oryx data completely (on an analytical basis).

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 25 2022 2:12 utc | 128

Posted by: vetinLA | Dec 25 2022 1:55 utc | 125
Hail Sol Invictus!

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 25 2022 2:12 utc | 129

Posted this on the wrong thread..
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/57403.htm
Much money to be made backing Ukraine..

Posted by: vetinLA | Dec 25 2022 2:13 utc | 130

Arch Bungle@109…wait till they get around to reporting the total losses of civilian combat cars and trucks by each side? That should raise their credibility.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 25 2022 2:21 utc | 131

Arch Bungle | Dec 25 2022 1:20 utc | 122
One of the social media military channels had a bit on the organization early in the SMO. I forget the details now. Might have been this one https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics or might have been another. But whatever, they are part of anglo regime change operations, Atlantic council and all the rest of the soothing for the western masses crap.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 25 2022 2:27 utc | 132

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 25 2022 2:12 utc | 128
Analytical basis? Let’s take Higgens’ BUK from Russia the night before heap. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17#Flight_and_shoot-down
See the map on the right — the very much reduced in scope but still adequate to disqualify Higgins’ ad lib claptrap — and see the time and redirection just after and see the “50 km” scale at the bottom of the map.
What do you know about single buk launchers?
What do you know about airline flight paths — and in particular that plane’s path?
That’s all you’re getting from me ’cause the only analytical basis to Higgins’ ridiculous narrative is: make shit up and The Empire’s advisers lackeys ‘n’ lickspittles will certainly sign off on it. You can be an accessories to premeditated mass murder and get away with it and isn’t that special!

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 25 2022 2:38 utc | 133

I follow some “OSINT” people (not Ukrainian-related) on Twitter because OSINT is related to infosec, which is my interest. Hackers use OSINT to dig up information on their targets – it’s a critical skill. One thing I’ve noticed is that OSINT people are very very good at digging up information.
The catch is: They have the same biases as everyone else and are no better at determining the meaning of the facts they dig up than anyone else. In other words, they suck at rational analysis just like 98% of the human population. Partly this is because they tend to ignore the big picture and get caught up in the “minutia” (to quote Martyanov) and they tend to pat themselves on the back for digging up this minutia without ever getting the context, so they have an ego problem as well.
So one should accept whatever verifiable facts an OSINT person collects, but take their analysis with a large grain of salt. Always do your own analysis.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 25 2022 2:46 utc | 134

Re my previous post to the troll.
The point I’m making is that these trolls are almost certainly mostly Ukrainian-American Democrats. These are the same people – like Alexandra Chalupa – who started the Russiagate nonsense in 2016. Chalupa, a Ukrainian-American Democratic operative, was the first to claim her computer was hacked by “Russians”. She coordinated the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington and by extension right-wing Ukrainians in the Ukrainian government (and quite possible Ukrainian hackers), along with the CrowdStrike company run by a Russian ex-pat who hates Putin, to produce evidence that Russia hacked the DNC and supplied the emails to Wikileaks.
All these people are part of the Ukrainian diaspora in the US and Canada. They’re not “CIA” (although I’ve no doubt they are supported by the CIA) but are probably being coordinated by various Ukrainian-American and Ukrainian-Canadian diaspora organizations.
As such, these are people who are almost genetically predisposed to hate Russians. So when Putin refers to “Ukrainian brothers”, he’s talking about someone other than these clowns. Ukraine didn’t become a cesspool of corruption and crime overnight. There’s a reason why it was the way it was. There’s a reason why neo-Nazism found a home there. Blame it on whatever you want. But Putin and the Russian security services are going to have their hands full cleaning out the trash once Russia controls the country. Not that it can’t be done, at least well enough to keep the country under control. But it’s going to be lot of work. Russian prisons will be full of these people, at least Russia doesn’t deport to Europe. Unfortunately nothing will be done by the scum residing in the West.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 25 2022 2:59 utc | 135

“at least Russia” s/b “at least those Russia”…

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 25 2022 3:01 utc | 136

Has Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine Doomed the Dollar?
The Ukraine crisis has more or less reinforced the nearly global view that the world is better served with multipolarity and multilateralism. …
Significantly, many of these countries have seen the end of the post-Cold war era ushering in a new period characterized by multipolarity and multilateralism. They have been uneasy about America’s unipolar power since its unilateral invasion of Iraq in 2003. …
Central to these developments is the attempt to weaken the American dollar as a prelude to weakening the overall global position of the United States. Fundamentally, the dollar is the underbelly of the United States. …
The Ukraine crisis and its ensuing ramifications for dividing the world, coupled with the virtual universal perception that American power is in decline following its debacles in Iraq and Afghanistan, only sharpened these countries’ determination to try to curb American global power by supporting multipolarity and multilateralism. …
Xi’s message was clear. The Ukraine crisis has laid bare a world buffeted by turbulence and undergoing a radical transformation. As such, it falls on China, Arab states, and many other countries to shape the new era. His opening statement to the Arabs underscored the importance of carrying forward the China-Arab relationship grounded in solidarity and mutual assistance, equality and mutual benefit, inclusiveness and mutual learning, and jointly building a China-Arab Community with a shared future in the new era.
The underlying message to the Saudis and other Arabs was that China, unlike the United States, will not dictate, influence, or compromise Arab policies and prosperity. China and the Arab states will grow their relationship on the basis of respect, equality, solidarity, and non-interference in each other’s domestic affairs. …
To be sure, the appeal of using the American dollar internationally partly lies in the strength of American geopolitics, economic power, and viability. But this appeal has been losing some of its luster. From an overseas vantage point, U.S. national debt has surpassed a staggering $31 trillion, and American global power has been declining. It’s no coincidence that some of our allies or friends are considering using or holding different currencies in their trade and foreign reserves.

Posted by: ? | Dec 25 2022 3:04 utc | 137

Hardly.
Ukraine has 40 mil inhabitants. It can easily withstand 2 mil losses.
Furthermore, Poland is willing and even eager to step in fight a.s.a.p.(80 millions)
Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 24 2022 22:02 utc | 80
I see Ukraine having an insurmountable problem in regards making up for hundreds of thousands of losses on the battlefield. As an American, I look to my own history, and as Ukraine is both modernized and not a third world nation, I see the lessons from America’s past efforts at conscription to likely have relevance.
During our Civil War between the North and the South there was a huge uproar over people being able to buy their way out of the draft. In the beginning a wealthy person even got to claim the decorations awarded to the person he paid to serve in his stead.
There was always an element of inequity throughout the conflict, and bitterness about that; “Rich man’s war, poor man’s fight”, the run of the mill Southerner would complain about wealthy planters not having to serve, but when the death toll soared and things got really real, it became more and more near impossible to buy one’s way out of the draft. We had riots over the draft, New York City was famous for its one as conscription was hauling away people in droves.
But eventually it came to be seen as more or less a shared sacrifice.
In WWII there was a similar sentiment, and people with an eye to the future knew that they couldn’t afford to be seen as having dodged the draft. I’m sure most people are aware of the movie A League of Their Own which showed an example of how deeply America was behind supporting the war.
Later on we had Viet Nam, and we experimented with providing exemptions for college students, especially those who were married with kids, and those who worked in all sorts of industries and professions that were deemed important by the draft boards.
The inner cities of America had their non college bound youth swept up, and the inequity of the draft became incredibly divisive.
African American soldiers might note that their government was intent to “Put a N****r behind the trigger” but would smile benignly as Dick Cheney “had better things to do” and used his deferments, while the future President Bush secured a much coveted slot in the Air National Guard.
People are bitter about that draft to this day, and that leads me to the point I want to make.
There is no way that those getting grabbed off the street, and then later forced to the front at bayonet point, who’ve been drafted in Ukraine are ignorant of the millions of their fellow citizens who “voted with their feet” and are sitting out the war in Poland, Germany, Great Britain, and so on.
They are aware that in many cases the men who are enjoying life in those European nations are doing so because they had some combination of cash, connections, and an utter unwillingness to get shot or bombed in a fight against Russia.
They are aware of the huge numbers of regime loyalists who are kept in jobs or detachments that keep them from getting sent to the front lines.
They are aware of how Zelenskyy uses them. They know he was squandering their lives so as to put on a show for America and its allies, and to keep the money flowing to the corrupt administration in Kiev.
The Civil War showed America how differently Generals could operate, and what drove their thinking on expending the lives of their troops to accomplish their objectives.
Sometimes it made sense to accept a few days of above average bloodshed, and sometimes it made sense to maneuver away from the enemy so as to fight another day. The troops learned what motivated their Generals, and they made allowances for the sacrifices demanded by the good ones.
Zelenskyy has shown himself to not be a good General, and the cherry on top of the icing of the bloody cake he’s been serving up is seeing his face on the covers of magazines, and learning of his wife’s shopping expedition in Paris while they were freezing in their wet and muddy trenches.
They know that they aren’t like the citizen army of the United States in WWII, but that they are more like one of the army of slaves they see depicted in films like 300, being driven on to slaughter.
They have the internet, and they know; Yet again “It’s a rich man’s war, and a poor man’s fight”.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Dec 25 2022 3:05 utc | 138

Posted by: Babel-17 | Dec 25 2022 3:05 utc | 138
I’d add to that the number of Latinos who volunteered for the US Army during the Iraq war to get a green card – not because they were “fighting for America”. I used to note every time someone got mentioned in an obit about dying in Iraq that they had Latino names. Sometimes it seemed like ninety percent of those dying in Iraq were Latinos. No doubt that impression was wrong, but the substance of the point is correct.
Just found this:
Latinos Claim Larger Share of U.S. Military Personnel
https://www.prb.org/resources/latinos-claim-larger-share-of-u-s-military-personnel/

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 25 2022 3:14 utc | 139

Accidentally posted before I intended to. I wanted to add this quote from the above article:

The Army has launched a vast recruiting campaign targeting Latino youth, placing ads in Spanish-language media, including magazines, radio, and television. The number of Hispanic Army enlistments rose 26 percent between 2001 and 2005.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 25 2022 3:15 utc | 140

Public Nativity Scene in Ukraine’s Lvov Stars Biden and Nazi Collaborator Bandera [Sputnik]tps://sputniknews.com/20221224/ukraines-lvov-sets-up-public-nativity-scene-with-figures-of-biden-and-nazi-collaborant-bandera-1105752796.html

“The Christmas nativity scene was installed in the Nahuyevychi State Historical and Cultural Preserve near the literary museum. Among the traditional biblical characters, there are figures of the three Hutsuls [Ukrainian ethnic group], Biden and Bandera,” the regional council said in a statement on Friday.

Ho.Ho.Ho. 🤮

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 25 2022 3:32 utc | 141

@Bob In Portland | Dec 25 2022 0:34 utc | 112
You wrote: “When you call Neil Cavuto of Fox News a “libtard” you are revealing how little you know about American politics. I stopped reading your comment. Fox is reich-wing.”
Bob, aren’t you still having your summer of love up there even though it’s winter for the rest of us?
I define Neil Cavuto as a libtard. You judge him not only by what he says but who he has on as guests. As a keen observer of the political scene, take it from me, he’s a libtard, which means you have no understanding of politics in America.
Have you ever heard of a Republican or reich-winger say what Neil Cavuto said about hydroxychloroquine: “Don’t take that stuff, it will kill you!” No, only libtards bought the government lie that HCQ would make your heart explode and kill you.
Only libtards thought like that…like you I would assume.
However, when you’re in a libtard bubble, it’s impossible to know you’re in the bubble, and all the stupid things that happen seem normal. That’s obviously why you think Neil Cavuto is a reich-wing dude. Now listen carefully, being on Fox does not make a person right wing. Ok? You are aware that Fox has moved a lot to the left over the past few years… or has that Portland libtard bubble prevented you from being aware of this.

Posted by: OdessaConnected | Dec 25 2022 3:35 utc | 142

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 24 2022 23:01 utc | 98 ” Russia only committed ten-fifteen percent of its forces for the first ten months.”
What is that ten-fifteen percent of? Russia’s total armed forces and reserves? Just the total active Russian army?

Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 25 2022 3:40 utc | 143

@ Richard Steven Hack | Dec 25 2022 3:14 utc | 139 and 140 with the recruitment of foreigners for empire military.
What a sad reflection of my country totally financialized and reflecting only the God of Mammon meme…..but they are doing God’s work, correct Pope Frank?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 25 2022 3:46 utc | 144

@ malenkov | Dec 24 2022 19:35 utc | 47
thanks for taking a look.. i agree with you.. germany is going nowhere fast….
@ Grieved | Dec 24 2022 23:43 utc | 107
hey! has a pleasant christmas as well! that short video was hilarious! nice to see some folks address the bullshit head on..

Posted by: james | Dec 25 2022 3:47 utc | 145

has – have…

Posted by: james | Dec 25 2022 3:47 utc | 146

Lindsey Graham, the Ugly American
Lindsey Graham, the neocon senator for South Carolina, wants to murder Vladimir Putin.
Many members of the political class are unapologetic psychopaths who are eager to resolve geopolitical issues with murder, torture, and rape. The “indispensable nation” believes it can murder anybody it wants after appropriate propaganda and demonization. Let’s turn the tables. Imagine, if you will, a top-level Russian politician declaring Joe Biden must be liquidated, maybe like Kennedy. What do you think the response would be in the US?
In neocon Bizarro World, black is white, and white is black. Graham wants to label Russia a terrorist state. In fact, Graham, as a vocal and irrational neocon advocate of mass murder, is a terrorist representing a terrorist government.
Consider the long list of countries bombed, their populations murdered, and terrorized, by the USG neoliberal war machine. It does get tiresome to list all the nations the USG has messed with, undermined, occupied, and terrorized. This is not something one can write about if he or she is a corporate war propaganda journalist. It’s verboten, an assured career killer. This is how the process works. It was outlined by John Perkins, a “hitman” for the neoliberal financial elite. In his 2004 book, “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man,” he writes

Economic hit men (EHMs) are highly paid professionals who cheat countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars. They funnel money from the World Bank, the US Agency for International Development (USAID), and other foreign “aid” organizations into the coffers of huge corporations and the pockets of a few wealthy families who control the planet’s natural resources. Their tools include fraudulent financial reports, rigged elections, payoffs, extortion, sex, and murder. They play a game as old as empire, but one that has taken on new and terrifying dimensions during this time of globalization. I should know; I was an EHM.

Let’s call it a Neoliberal Mafia partnered with a USG enforcer and executioner.
If bribery of autocrats and sadistic dictators does not work, if rigged elections are not possible and if a population resists the dictates of an imposed neoliberal financial order, that’s when the military steps in, cheered on by the likes of the pathocrat Sen. Lindsey Graham and other neocons.
Graham is not calling for the assassination of Vladimir Putin due to Putin’s imagined “New Hitler” personality and behavior. He is calling for the murder of Putin and the destruction of Russia because the USG client state on Russia’s border is losing the war big time. Graham wants Putin double-tapped, or maybe sadistically carved up like Moammar Gadaffi by CIA mercenaries. It appears it is the only solution his pathological mind may conceive. …

Posted by: ? | Dec 25 2022 3:55 utc | 147

arch @127
“We’re sorry but your session has expired, …yada,yada”. My message to you regarding the well-known Bellingcat/MI6 connexion was but a single paragraph. Do the math.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 25 2022 3:56 utc | 148

” I’d add to that the number of Latinos who volunteered for the US Army during the Iraq war to get a green card – not because they were “fighting for America”.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 25 2022 3:14 utc | 139 ”
Anyone willing to kill total strangers for a green card deserves their fate. Dont expect anyone to cry for the ” latinos “.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 25 2022 3:59 utc | 149

Laurence @136
Have read a great many accounts of the destruction of the Malaysian airliner over the combat zone. The Buk missile is rather an improbable scenario. I do recall a site which cited that (1. Ukie air control out of Kiev redirected the plane from a safer course to the one it was obliged to take and (2. There were radar images of a Ukie Sokhoi or Mig fighter jet “escorting” the liner for a very few minutes and then the crash and (3. at least one witness before the authorities got there took some photos of the wreck…just beneath the cockpit there was a line of 20 MM sized openings.
That information I viewed seven or eight years ago. Not archived by me, but someone likely retained them. Perhaps you could engage the Yandex “provider” and lock in on the photos and accounts. Oh yes, the Dutch “authorities” did not allow mere civilians to be present when their assessors evaluated the evidence.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 25 2022 4:06 utc | 150

Posted by: MiniMO | Dec 25 2022 0:59 utc | 118
Michael Grimm? Lol, he’s admitted to fraud and perjury, which puts his credibility seriously in doubt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Grimm_(politician)
On April 28, 2014, Grimm was charged by federal authorities with 20 counts of fraud, federal tax evasion, and perjury. On December 23, 2014, he pleaded guilty to a single count of felony tax fraud, and “acknowledged committing perjury, hiring illegal immigrants, and committing wire fraud”.
He became a nationwide laughingstock due to an incident that was memorialized by SNL.
https://observer.com/2014/02/snl-piles-on-michael-grimm-controversy/
The original clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeJhXaC5WPg

Posted by: Babel-17 | Dec 25 2022 4:08 utc | 151

Hey `Arch’, Wanna do ps752? Know what “this” [‘🕶’]was?

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 25 2022 4:15 utc | 152

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 25 2022 4:06 utc | 150
I was strictly dealing with the `officially accepted’ Higgins/BellingCrap `analysis’ as per `Arch Bungle’s’ rather uncharacteristic deference. You can go fish, yourself. Been there, seen all that, was there in the twitter trenches on the day it was shot down — whateverthemeans. How doesn’t matter anymore. What it wasn’t was a Buk missile from a launcher from Russia. EndOf.

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 25 2022 4:25 utc | 153

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 25 2022 3:14 utc | 139
Oh right, great example, and it triggered some memories.
Those of us opposing that war crime/illegal invasion would often bring up that it was economics that generally drove enlistments into the military.
Yadda, yadda, yadda, if lower income American kids had access to decent jobs, job training, college education, and health care, they wouldn’t be enlisting in numbers as high as the military was getting.
And they were great kids; motivated, patriotic, sharp, highly trainable, and willing to pull the trigger thanks to all those Hollywood films that set up Middle Easterners as being Natural Born Bad Guys.
And all of our draft dodging elites were such war mongers that they were OK with the practice of Stop-Loss, so that the children of the lower economic class couldn’t just serve out their enlistment and walk away. No, they had to keep going back, ensuring PTSD for many.
Had they been able to walk away, then the war monger elites would either have had to sue for peace, or start up the draft again. And wow did they not want to open that can of worms, given how it would mean either disproportionately drafting poor minorities again, or drafting some of the children of the elites who were at University.
And not drafting women would have caused a stir as well.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Dec 25 2022 4:35 utc | 154

? @147
Linda Graham is a special case. From South Carolina, his constituents include a disproportion of Southern Baptists, Holy Rollers and various other born-agains. He’s being blackmailed and if videos/Photos were to circulate in that state, his political carreer would be terminated in the next election year.
So here comes the sci-fi scenario. Russia’s spy agency would send a crew of operatives, carefully chosen for various qualities, at least one of them would be carefully calculated to appeal to the august Senator. Intel would know his favorite dining spots. The agent might be seated at a nearby table or could even be a new-hire waiter. Eye contacts would be made. Assignation set. “My place in the Virginia foothills”. Here’s my #”.
It’s quite easy for almost anyone to cross the Southern border at this time. The team might consist of half a dozen guys. The old spiked drink, but not complete knockout, but more like that “truth serum” which overcomes one’s will. So the short, cute muscle-builder type might be hung like a stud field mouse. Linda would not be fully satisfied. “Oh, would you like to meet my room-mate”? Fun n’ games go on for awhile. By this time the drug is catching on and the rather large third guy would take over from #2. By then Linda is in seventh heaven and gets it from #’s five and six, each a bit larger. Ultimately # 6 strolls in and enters, wearing a form of rather thick stretch plastic, embedded with tiny razor-blades.
Soon the object of the lesson is dropped off at a nearby E.R. In the nick of time. A team removes some damaged tissue over perhaps an hour of intensity. Drug wears off and hospital staff gives him a strong sedative. No wallet is in a pocket. Unknown patient awakens in the morning fully awake…then the fun begins.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 25 2022 4:35 utc | 155

Babel-17
I will add that Kerensky is without a clue. He puts population of Poland at 80 million. Try 38. Population of Ukraine has been claimed at 40 for a long time now. That includes the 11-14 million in what is now Russia. Includes Ukrainian citizens living in Russia. Makes no allowance for the millions who have fled the past year.
Basically we won’t know because Ukraine refuses to do a census. Mostly that is because they were, even a decade ago, a failed state that did not have close to 40 million. And because the numbers for how many have fled are all over the map and none deserves belief.
When basic information as how many people live in Ukraine is continuously fudged and lied about, safe to assume the rest of what you are being fed is a shit sandwich.

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 25 2022 6:48 utc | 156

Saw the other day Nancy Pelosi kiss the hand of Zelensky in Washington, it was a surreal moment, the embracing of the Ukrainian neo-Nazi’s is complete.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 24 2022 14:50 utc | 10
(barf bag warning)
https://twitter.com/grandoldmemes/status/1605760378444558341

Posted by: blueswede | Dec 25 2022 6:54 utc | 157

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 25 2022 4:35 utc | 155
My kind of plan. 🙂 Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 25 2022 7:47 utc | 158

See;
‘Up to 200,000 Poles to be called up for military training next year:’
https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/12/09/up-to-200000-poles-to-be-called-up-for-military-training-next-year/
Gonzala Lira’s take on it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpdJ_FXHiPk

Posted by: ftmntf | Dec 25 2022 8:24 utc | 159

Listening to Mercouris analyze Lt. Colonel Alex Vershinin’s recent article on the Ukraine war.
I dug up the article. It’s not on RUSI, but on the Russia Matters Web site:
What’s Ahead in the War in Ukraine
https://www.russiamatters.org/analysis/whats-ahead-war-ukraine
Vershinin is not a “pro-Russia” guy, but he can pick out points that illustrate some of Russia’s advantages and Ukraine’s disadvantages. He is the one who wrote the “Return of Industrial Warfare” article back in June which everyone cites to show that Russia can out-produce Ukraine, NATO and the West in military hardware.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 25 2022 8:28 utc | 160

@aristodemos | Dec 25 2022 0:36 utc | 114

Bill Quick @ 52
Would you please slow down for a sec and inform us as to which planet you reside.

I was thinking that the Blinken quote about leaving Afghanistan in a hurry last year was in preparation of the Ukraine they were planning and which started as the increased shelling of Donetsk in February 2022, before the SMO.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 25 2022 8:45 utc | 161

Speaking of which, Vershinin suggests that the Russian forces of 160,000 reserves will not be fully trained until March, so the probability of a major Russian offensive will be delayed until then at least.
I can imagine the reaction everyone (including me) to that news: more delay in the offensive. Mercouris pretends that this is what the rest of the military commentators such as Ritter, Macgregor, etc. are saying, but it clearly is not, even if most of them aren’t prepared to specify a timetable for the offensive. Mercouris says the progress of the war will remain one of attrition.
I will say that obviously finishing the clearing of Donbass will take another few months: first Bahkmut has to be finished off, then the line up to Soledar has to be cleared, then the Ukrainians have to retreat to the Kramatorsk-Slavyansk line. So it probably won’t matter when the 160,000 are ready to go – assuming Vershinin’s information is correct.
But eventually Russia is going to have to find a way to shorten its front lines, concentrate its forces and begin a war of maneuver rather than attrition – or more precisely, one that combines maneuver and attrition, one that involves the maneuver of Russian forces to a concentration of Ukraine forces followed by the attrition of those forces, rinse and repeat.
But if Vershinin is correct, we’re probably going to be waiting until end of spring for that.
Or not.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 25 2022 8:47 utc | 162

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 25 2022 6:48 utc | 157
You’ve got me wondering now if one of the lesser scams to be used by Zelenskyy’s friends, with the monetary aid from the West, is to allocate direct aid based on the population within districts.
The administrators of districts will estimate a number of residents based on old data, knowing its inflated, and Kiev will approve the aid, knowing the amount is inflated, and then they wait for their kickback.
It adds up, especially if the grifters in Kiev have their hooks in whoever gets paid to deliver aid. Probably the whole distribution network, right back to Europe, would be in on it. Pay for the rations to provide a hundred million meals, only have 50 million delivered, and privately sell half of those.
Those shopping trips to Paris don’t pay for themself.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Dec 25 2022 8:49 utc | 163

@Norwegian | Dec 25 2022 8:45 utc | 162
the Ukraine *offensive* they were planning

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 25 2022 9:17 utc | 164

Posted by: Exile | Dec 24 2022 22:54 utc | 96
I wonder if you’ve ever worked in a factory?
https://picturethis.museumca.org/timeline/world-war-ii-homefront-era-1940s/women-labor/info

Posted by: abrogard | Dec 25 2022 9:23 utc | 165

Translated from Russian FYI:
ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z) (Intercept (Z)) (Open TG link)(Four(4) referenced tactical Situ maps)

Combat summary for the morning of December 25, 2022⚡️
On the Donetsk front, Russian troops made another attempted offensive near Novomikhailovka. Fierce street battles continue in Marinka. The Russian Armed Forces are advancing with difficulty, but with difficulty. At the same time, the AFU will fight to the last man. There is no need to expect flight. They will retreat if they receive an order. To the northeast, it’s the same old pattern. Another attack by Russian troops on Nevelskoye and Pervomaiskoye. They also tried to advance near Vodyanoye and from the direction of Opytnoye. Artillery was firing at the AFU stronghold in Avdeevka. In turn, the AFU launched another rocket attack on Donetsk. (Fig. 1)
To the south of Bakhmut, the Wagner PMC attacked from the direction of Kurdyumovka, and slightly to the north – in the area of Kleshcheyevka. This suggests the desire to bypass the city, which can not be taken head-on. Nevertheless, on the eastern outskirts of Bakhmut, counterattacks continue. And we cannot say that the AFU is defeated in them. True, they are not winning either. Just to the north, the Wagner PMCs are trying to break through to Podgorodne. The AFU are holding their ground. Southeast of Soledar, the Wagner PMC attacks again near Bakhmutskoye. Moreover, it is also trying to cover the settlement from the south and north. (Fig. 2)
In the northern sector, Russian troops are carrying out offensives in the direction of Spornoye. (Fig. 3)
In the Luhansk direction, the Russian Armed Forces again attacked in the direction of Belogorovka. Artillery hit Terny, Makiivka, Andreevka, Myasozharivka and Stelmakhivka. (Fig. 4)

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 25 2022 9:44 utc | 166

The administrators of districts will estimate a number of residents based on old data, knowing its inflated
Babel-17 | Dec 25 2022 8:49 utc | 164
Inflated census data is what all East European countries do. They get more seats in EU and more money that way. But they are fake, by millions in difference. EU says nothing because they get educated slaves for free, they have a big advantage. Do the math, how much it costs a country to make a good experienced doctor, then know that each Eastern slave contributed with at least 50k of them only in the last 10+ years. And that is a small part of the stolen brains. If you read random news like I do, you’ll see that Romania has finished a new census, after a long time without any. They now claim to be 18M or so, which is impossible. Considering how many have left legally, as reported by EU stats, and estimating the rest from illegal stuff to butt cleaners for old Italians (there is a huge number of Eastern Europeans doing that, google Italian badante job) and the severe decline in growth, they can’t be more than 15M, max.

Posted by: rk | Dec 25 2022 9:57 utc | 167

Translated from Russian FYI, MOD Summary Dec25:
ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z) (Intercept (Z)) (Public/Open TG link)

Summary by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the progress of a special military operation in Ukraine (25 December 2022)
The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue to conduct a special military operation.
◽️ In the Kupyansk direction, more than 30 Ukrainian servicemen, three armored fighting vehicles and three vehicles were destroyed as a result of the shelling of enemy strongholds in the areas of Kislovka, Tabayevka and Berestovoye settlements of the Kharkiv region.
◽️ In the Krasno-Limansky direction, two company tactical groups of the AFU were hit by artillery and heavy firing systems near the settlement of Terny in the Donetsk People’s Republic. In addition, active actions by Russian units destroyed two AFU reconnaissance groups operating in the direction of Chervonaya Dibrova in the Luhansk People’s Republic.
💥 The enemy losses in this direction during the day amounted to 60 Ukrainian servicemen killed and wounded, four armored combat vehicles and three pickup trucks.
◽️ In the Donetsk direction, Russian forces destroyed more than 80 Ukrainian servicemen and mercenaries, two tanks, five armored combat vehicles, and four vehicles during their offensive operations.
◽️ On the South Donets direction, two company tactical groups of the 72nd Mechanized and 68th Infantry-Engineering Brigades of the AFU, which were trying to counterattack Russian forces’ positions in the direction of Pavlovka and Vladimirovka settlements of the Donetsk People’s Republic, were defeated by artillery fire.
The enemy suffered over 50 losses in this direction during the day. One tank and three armored fighting vehicles were destroyed.
💥 Missile troops and artillery of the group of troops during the day hit 58 artillery units of the AFU in firing positions, manpower and military equipment in 86 areas. A temporary deployment point of a foreign mercenary unit near Artemivsk, Donetsk People’s Republic, was hit.
💥 Two Ukrainian Uragan multiple rocket launcher vehicles were destroyed near Seversk, Donetsk People’s Republic, and two Grad multiple rocket launcher systems were destroyed near Makeyevka, Luhansk People’s Republic. Also, a Polish Crab self-propelled artillery system was destroyed near Seversk, Donetsk People’s Republic. Three US-made M777 artillery systems were destroyed at firing positions in the areas of Dobrovoye, Kharkiv region, and Pleshcheevka, Donetsk People’s Republic.
💥 The air defense forces shot down five Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles in the areas of Zmievka, Ploshchanka of Luhansk People’s Republic, Kirillovka, Maly Kremenchik of Donetsk People’s Republic and Polohy of Zaporizhzhya region.
💥 In addition, six HIMARS multiple rocket launchers and one Uragan rocket were intercepted in the areas of Zhytlovka and Krasnorechenske of the Luhansk People’s Republic, Kuybyshevo of the Donetsk People’s Republic and Myrne of the Zaporizhia region.
📊 In total, since the beginning of the special military operation destroyed ((+?) over preceding 24hrs):
– 352 aircraft,
– 192 helicopters,
– 2,724(+5) unmanned aerial vehicles,
– 399 anti-aircraft missile systems,
– 7,240(+18) tanks and other armored combat vehicles,
– 940(+4) combat vehicles of multiple rocket launchers,
– 3,708(+4) field artillery guns and mortars,
– 7,747(+10) pieces of special military automotive equipment.

&
From Легитимный (South wind)

According to the map (Public/Open TG link), the Ukrainian Armed Forces have still sent one mechanized battalion to cover the Kiev and Chernihiv directions in addition to the territorial defense brigades of the respective regions.
Pulling out more troops does not seem to make much sense, since at least four new brigades are completing their adjustment in the training centers in the west of the country: the 47th and 67th mechanized, 3rd assault and 77th airmobile brigades.
These forces are sufficient to cover Ukraine’s northern border and, if there is no threat of a second front, to strengthen the grouping in Donbass.

&
From Легитимный (Legitimate) (Public/Open TG link)

#Rumors.
Our source reports that the Russian Armed Forces are preparing to use a new type of UAV in the Ukrainian crisis.
There is information from the State Intelligence Service and the SBU that the Russians will have combat UAVs, (for the last ten months the development of the Design Bureau has been underway). These UAVs will be able to enter Ukrainian airspace and carry out spot strikes on targets identified in real time. Carrying both missiles, bombs and other guided and unguided munitions. Most of all, this will affect the front lines, where the targets will be air defense installations, MLRS, radar, artillery crews, etc.
At the moment there is no information whether this prototype UAV has been put into mass production, but some “specimens” have been seen and as they say tested in the Southern, Northeastern and Central sectors of the frontline.
There are no exact characteristics of this UAV.
The risk of these “birds” appearing in the game exists, which means that it is extremely important for Ukraine to get as many mobile air defense/radar systems, etc., as possible.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 25 2022 11:19 utc | 168

Just like Russia China complains impotently as if its shocked by the US’s actions. Read some history China, maybe then you wont be so ” surprised “.
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 24 2022 20:21 utc | 58
I can assure you that China is not surprised. What’s important in this context is that Blinken was told to F off in his face.

Posted by: RB | Dec 25 2022 11:58 utc | 169

Three US M-777, one Polish Krab self propelled artillery, two Uragan MLRS and two Grad MLRS were hit.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 25 2022 13:00 utc | 170

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 25 2022 13:00 utc | 171
The artillery front is really collapsing for UAF, but the Himars remain elusive due to their characteristic of mobility.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 25 2022 13:01 utc | 171

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 25 2022 2:05 utc | 128
I agree with you that our ability to discern truth is severely hampered by extremely clever dis/misinformation who simply don’t want us to know what’s true, don’t have any idea of the truth themselves, or are malevolent actors. For us to “feel” something is propagandistic isn’t the same as being able to refute/prove this to be the case. So we intuit more than reason which is a dangerous path to trod. Maybe it’s always been this way but I don’t think so. I think the degree of trickery is far, far greater than ever before.
There’s a type of person who seems to enjoy living in an alternative universe, who has no respect for truth/reality and seems to think that what is real is whatever is constructed; that it’s quite possible to force fantasy onto reality — repeatedly, cleverly — until no one knows the difference.

https://twitter.com/peterniers544 Peter Niers has a frightening video of what looks like big raindrops of fire falling all over Bakhmut.

Posted by: KR | Dec 25 2022 13:18 utc | 172

Douglas Macgregor: Russia pummels strategic targets in Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjYCkVFQBX4

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Dec 25 2022 13:30 utc | 173

Stockholm syndrome is a coping mechanism to a captive or abusive situation. People develop positive feelings toward their captors or abusers over time. This condition applies to situations including child abuse, coach-athlete abuse, relationship abuse and sex trafficking.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22387-stockholm-syndrome
… or the public and media in reaction to domination by tyranical government.
I note that even the contrarian media and those trying to analyze present day politics have a tendency to normalize what is truly outrageous behavior or to invent new terms to describe what is well recognized behaviors.
The appearance of Zelensky before US government is intended to signal the intention of the government to escalate and enter the conflict – boots and machinery. I believe this same behavior has been exhibited prior to all other major US conflicts since 20th century.
It is the stage in the Bond flick where the villians lays out his plans thinking he is in position to revel in his diabolical intentions.
Will be a generational conflict I imagine – long terrible slog.
Suspect Putin sees this – his recent dialog suggests.
I suspect China will do as US has done and wait to enter conflict until aversary nearly beaten. US is new nazi Reich.
Expect the unexpected.

Posted by: jared | Dec 25 2022 13:50 utc | 174

Why doesn’t this young Ukrainian man’s day job require a uniform?

Dmytro Perov was at his day job, analysing planning applications for Kyiv city council, when he saw a familiar address – the derelict house in central Kyiv built by his family in the late 1800s that was confiscated by the Bolsheviks. The owners of the site now wanted to build on it and had made the unlikely claim that their office was based at the house, which Perov knew had no roof and collapsed walls.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/25/a-second-front-fight-to-save-cave-complexes-from-developers-in-ukraine

Posted by: too scents | Dec 25 2022 14:31 utc | 175

As it turns-out, the Great Reset really just means next World War.
As z/h had predicted – response of failing empire.
Thucides trap.

Posted by: jared | Dec 25 2022 14:35 utc | 176

Meaningful perspective from Dmitry Polyanskiy on Zelensky’s visit to Washington:
“When we opposed @ZelenskyyUa speaking in UN Security Council via video link we were told that“due to war”he is not able to come to brief us in person. Now he comes in person to beg US for more weapons bypassing NY and not even asking to address SC which was feasible
It’s clear that he is not ready for a dialogue with UN SC members or at least to listen to them. I hope that after such hubris towards UN from his part we will not face more requests to see him on the screen in breach of the rules of procedure @AlMissionUN @USUN @UKUN_NewYork”
https://twitter.com/Dpol_un/status/1606412628259229696

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Dec 25 2022 15:38 utc | 177

Deplorable Commissar @79: “I meant purely food and medical aid.”
What a pathetic goalpost-moving turdball troll.
Troll: “Derp! We gives them our surplus powdered milk with American flags all over the packages!”
Meanwhile China helps countries colonially raped by western businesses with infrastructure and industrialization so that those countries can achieve sovereignty and supply their own needs, including in food and medicine.
What’s the saying? “Give a man a fish and he will be hungry in an hour. Give a man the infrastructure for sustainable aquaculture and he will be fed for life… and have some leftover spending money to buy your Huawei smartphones.”
America builds dependence into all of its foreign aid, which is why it imagines everyone else does the same. The Chinese are better human beings than you, though that isn’t really hugely challenging to accomplishment.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 25 2022 16:01 utc | 178

indian punchline from today –
Ukraine war tolls death knell for NATO

Posted by: james | Dec 25 2022 16:49 utc | 179

The recent visit of Voldemart Zelensky to Washington DC is a fitting symbolic marriage of America and Ukraine, as these two countries share fundamental core values–and thus a perfect match made in Hell.
The catch, however, is that these common values are not what America and Ukraine claim to be.
What values do America and Ukraine actually represent?
Corporate bloodsuckers, parasites, and economic hitmen masquerading as Defenders of Freedom.
Zelensky’s diaspora delegation led by economic hit-woman who led plunder of Ukraine
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/12/23/zelenskys-diaspora-hit-woman-ukraine/

Posted by: ak74 | Dec 25 2022 17:12 utc | 180

unimperator | Dec 25 2022 13:00 utc | 171
“Three US M-777, one Polish Krab self propelled artillery, two Uragan MLRS and two Grad MLRS were hit.”
You could sing this in the style of “The Twelve Days of Christmas”. You know, “On the 1st day of Christmas my true love gave to me…”

jared | Dec 25 2022 13:50 utc | 176
“Stockholm syndrome is a coping mechanism to a captive or abusive situation. People develop positive feelings toward their captors or abusers over time. This condition applies to situations including child abuse, coach-athlete abuse, relationship abuse and sex trafficking.”
So relevant, thanks for this comment. This syndrome, in one way or another, affects so many people, whole organizations and countries even. I don’t agree with the “over time” aspect though. It’s true for a literal hostage situation, no doubt. But those are kind of rare I’d say. Much more common are all the other situations, where the captor or abuser is trusted and given the benefit of doubt from the get-go. The people of Germany in relation to their government and political parties – a kind of Stockholm syndrome. Ditto for their scientific and medical institutions, after these last few years. Ditto for the country of Germany as a whole in relation to the US and NATO. We just cannot talk in a meaningful way about what was done to the Nordstream pipelines, can we?

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Dec 25 2022 18:12 utc | 181

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO6Gw_gWp7w
Ukrainian little girl was given the common there po-ROSHEN-ko candies.
She broke in tears and being patriotic kids refused to eat damned moskals gifts.
Her mother considers it funny…

Posted by: Arioch | Dec 25 2022 18:16 utc | 182

«Population of Ukraine has been claimed at 40 for a long time now. That includes the 11-14 million in what is now Russia.»
That’s one of the big mysteries: how comes that the largest number of ukrainian refugees escaped to the Russian Federation, to be “enslaved and exterminated” 🙂 by the “moskal orcs”? Obviously they are either mad or they have been abducted and imprisoned :-).
That’s one of the things that the Kremlin propaganda is missing out on: it shows that many millions of ukrainians think that the Russian Federation is as safe and comfortable for them than Poland or Romania or even Germany.

Posted by: Blissex | Dec 25 2022 18:32 utc | 183

Posted by: james | Dec 25 2022 16:49 utc | 181
The issue fundamentally is that US has a lot of “yes-men” in EU-Natostan for “allies” to form any sort of coalition-of-the-willing. They talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk. When push comes to shove, no one outside Poland and Baltics is ready to die for US interests, not even the majority in aforementioned countries by a long shot. Maybe there are some nazi radicals who can go, but most of them already went there.
Sure, the “leaders” will direct larger budgets to buy more weapons to feed to Ukraine, but US has to manufacture all that stuff over coming years. The subject population has little to no chance to affect the budget decisions, but the economic system is in a permanent decline anyway, as are the national tax revenues.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 25 2022 19:02 utc | 184

#Babel-17, #138
It also depends on what part of the U.S. military, especially Army, and what their ethnic/racial make-up tends to be. My kid is a younger NCO in a “light infantry” type of MOS that is fairly “mobile”. He’s had the same MOS and has been in 2 different divisions. The first one is fairly well known, the second one newer and in a more out of the way place. The ethnic/racial make-up of both of these units at the platoon and “company” size was almost all Euro-American decedent, English speaking guys. If middle-class (and not upper middle-class) white Americans stopped volunteering for this type of unit, they would cease to exist at present. It doesn’t really matter what the “diversity over all things” libtards say, this is the truth.
The American military command lapdog ass kicking of Sniffy’s minions about the covid jabs have really hurt the U.S. Army. There are other reasons as well but right now, in my kid’s new unit, his platoon is at 50% strength right now, and that’s not even facing an enemy. About half the platoon are NCOs, very few lower enlisted guys in it. I don’t know how this manifests to other parts of his divisional unit or other larger units but going into battle at 50-75% manpower is not an optimal situation…

Posted by: DakotaRog | Dec 25 2022 19:08 utc | 185

We hear above that Ukrainians are fighting to the mast man.
What kind of weapon from the Russian side could change this?
I think no weapon but destruction of energy infrastructure.

Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 25 2022 19:15 utc | 186

Dima says that Russians cannot attack further near Bahmut as it is becoming suicidal operation for them.
Strange that Russians cannot use airforce (bombers) there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AQBAdV7_Yc

Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 25 2022 19:19 utc | 187

Et un Joyeux Noël à tous et toutes (sorry…no neutral pronoun in French )
Posted by: La Bastille | Dec 24 2022 21:11 utc | 68
APsplainin to anglo-americans the struggle to reform romance languages… continues.LOL.
iel! divides the nation

Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 25 2022 20:08 utc | 188

For a moment, try to think like the NATO decision-makers. What matters and what doesn’t matter to them? It’s not the same things that matter to normal people! Let me point out several things:
-Ukrainian casualties do not matter. At all. The point of the war is to get the Ukrainians to kill as many Russians as possible. If ultimately 2 million Ukrainians die while killing 200,000 Russians, then that counts as winning since no significant number of NATO personnel were killed.
-The NATO decision makers have the mentality of a schoolyard bully. When a bully shoves you and you don’t shove back, the bully is going to keep shoving you until you either shove back or you grovel and submit to them.
-As rigged as the political process is, politicians ultimately do depend on public support to some degree. When the Iraq war became politically indefensible, we did (temporarily) leave Iraq.
-Everyone needs to look up the symptoms of clinical sociopathy. There are major differences between clinical sociopathy and what people tend to think that sociopathy is. If you understand clinical sociopathy, then and only then can you understand how the decision-makers think.
My conclusion is that the only way Russia can survive is by making the decision-makers afraid of continuing to escalate, which is by threatening them directly with the resolve to actually deliver on those threats. I don’t have access to classified info, but it seems from my casual perspective that Russia cannot win the conflict while giving NATO free rein. The only thing that gives me pause about this conclusion is that the concern trolls seem to want the same thing…

Posted by: Donbass Lives Matter | Dec 25 2022 20:13 utc | 189

My conclusion is that the only way Russia can survive is by making the decision-makers afraid of continuing to escalate, which is by threatening them directly with the resolve to actually deliver on those threats.

I think this is the point.
Psychopaths in USA and EU are not afraid from Russia at all.
You cannot deal with psychopaths as with normal people.
Please don’t call me troll because of this.

Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 25 2022 20:26 utc | 190

@ sln2002 | Dec 25 2022 20:08 utc | 190
Thanks for the link to AP.
Total BS! No problem with feminine. But we have “inclusivity warriors”. They just screwed the whole grammatic in order to add “all the possible gender” and slicing any word with multiple “.e”.
All Inclusive Wokiskm is an Exclusion.

Posted by: La Bastille | Dec 25 2022 20:33 utc | 191

Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 25 2022 19:15 utc | 188
I think propaganda could change it.
They have always been suffering under a delusion. They were tricked and are tricked still.
Russia does not want their country. That’s a lie.
They fight on a daily basis Ukrainians – Donbas Ukrainians – they know that.
Russia is there to help those Donbas Ukrainians.
It is all about safety for Russia and safety for Donbas Ukrainians.
Stop the war instantly, at any time, and talk about that is all that needs to be done.
Russia and the Donbas Ukrainians do not want to conquer the whole of Ukraine, does not want to ‘kill them to the last man’.
Somehow get a clear and simple picture into their heads of how they’ve been tricked and I think things could change overnight.
It is a war between brothers. It can happen like that. Suddenly the brothers see the truth.
It always happens in combat, I think, that the antagonists identify with each other after a while as against the onlooking civilians and authoritarian masters controlling everything.
‘That’s your brother over there. He just wants to be safe from you.’
‘But I don’t want to hurt him’
‘Well he doesn’t want to hurt you’
‘So what are we fighting for?’
‘Because your govt will not guarantee not to hurt them’.

Posted by: abrogard | Dec 25 2022 20:38 utc | 192

Kerensky @192
For the record, I was not referring to you when I mentioned the trolls. I was referring to the Zanon types who post nothing but taunting messages about how Russia won’t enforce its red lines. Based on their posts alone, it seems like the SMO is going perfectly and Russia should keep not responding to provocations. But based on everything else, paradoxically, I think that Russia does need to respond because a forceful response is the only thing that sociopaths understand.

Posted by: Donbass Lives Matter | Dec 25 2022 20:39 utc | 193

Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 25 2022 19:19 utc | 189
Yep. Seems to me they clearly do not have a vaunted air superiority they are supposed to have. Demonstrated again and again all over the place. When we do see them in action they’re furiously spewing out flares or whatever they call them that draw away heat seeking missiles.
It’s been suggested to me that MANPADs are the problem. And Donetsk stymied by RPG’s I suspect else why don’t the tanks just roll over those entrenchments? It’s not like there’s naval guns dug in there. It’s no maginot line. Or if it is no one every talks about it and we see no clips of massive gun emplacements etc.
So tanks and planes are out. What comes in? Drones. More and more drones. In a multitude of types and a multitude of roles and a multitude of presentations – flocks, swarms, penetration attacks, deceptions….. Which is going to need ‘counter drones’ to combat them as, again, the cheapest and best way….

Posted by: abrogard | Dec 25 2022 20:46 utc | 194

@ unimperator | Dec 25 2022 19:02 utc | 186
it appears similar to me, especially the part of the west decaying and not being in a position to continue this indefinitely.. at the same time, i agree with @ Donbass Lives Matter | Dec 25 2022 20:13 utc | 191, that nato has the mentality of a school yard bully… i don’t know the best way to address any of this…

Posted by: james | Dec 25 2022 20:58 utc | 195

Dreisen report latest post, he did a rough calculation of Ukraine manpower situation. Since 2014, about 6 M people migrated from Ukraine, mostly looking for work. Excluding Russian controlled areas, about 5 M, so 2.5 M males. At least 40% are 30-35, so 1 M males prime age for military service, probably more, since the out migration trended young. Another analyst claimed Ukraine has 27M population in areas under its control. I’m no expert on demographics but missing 1M males of prime military age means that the bottom of the barrel has already been scraped, and the Ukrainian army cannot be maintained at current levels.

Posted by: Mike R | Dec 25 2022 21:18 utc | 196

Below is the title and quote from a recent ZH posting
Putin 100% Sure US-Supplied Patriot Systems Will Be Destroyed In Ukraine

In Sunday statements Russian President Vladimir Putin has vowed to destroy the Patriot anti-air missile systems that the Biden White House pledged to supply Ukraine days ago.
He said that he’s 100% certain that Russian forces will eradicate them when they appear inside Ukraine. “Of course, we’ll take them out, 100%!” he emphasized in an interview with Rossiya-1 television on Sunday.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 25 2022 21:43 utc | 197

Posted by: abrogard | Dec 24 2022 22:18 utc | 86
I’ve wondered for some time if it is not possible that “The Biden” is fully coherent and an active partner in the globalist plan. This would make him a self taught actor, pretending mental and other disabilities, though not admitting them, while being sue to collect the 10% for the Big Guy. I’m not advocating for this view, just considering it. Perhaps inspired by the lack of acrimony that followed Bush Jr??

Posted by: Snowleopard | Dec 25 2022 22:31 utc | 198

Ukraine claims (since Feb.24):
– 283 aircraft
– 267 helicopters
– 1706 unmanned arial vehicles
– 212 anti-aircraft missile systems
– 3011 (+5) tanks
– 6010 (+16) armoured combat vehicles
– 418 vehicles of multiple rocket launchers
– 1991 (+3) field artillery guns and mortars
– 4635 (+8) pieces of special military automotive equipment
– 16 ships
– 102.050 (+620) Russian soliders dead & wounded.
* https://www.pravda.com.ua/
Russia claims:
📊 In total, since the beginning of the special military operation destroyed ((+?) over preceding 24hrs):
– 352(+) aircraft,
– 192(+3) helicopters,
– 2,719(+15) unmanned aerial vehicles,
– 399 anti-aircraft missile systems,
– 7222(+15) tanks and other armored combat vehicles,
– 936 combat vehicles of multiple rocket launchers,
– 3,704(+2) field artillery guns and mortars,
– 7,737(+15) pieces of special military automotive equipment.
Note that Russia claims less than 8.000 troops killed versus Ukraine claiming 102.050 (both killed and wounded). Normally there is a 1 to 4 killed/wounded ratio.

Posted by: rockwool99 | Dec 25 2022 22:49 utc | 199

Posted by: Exile | Dec 24 2022 22:54 utc | 96
It is completely possible to run 24/7 with a basic workweek of 40 hours x 5 days for all workers with overtime offered as needed on three separate shifts. No one needs to be overly stressed to do it. Days off are staggered and where work is the same, junior workers cover the off days of five regular workers. Where work is more specialized senior workers are paid a premium to cover the off days of five specialized workers. There are many other, more stressful ways to do this, like two 12 hour shifts with staggered days off for example. What it boils down to is organization and the availability of sufficient workers.

Posted by: Snowleopard | Dec 25 2022 23:01 utc | 200