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December 24, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-234
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Another good day for Russian Forces. Posted by: jo6pac | Dec 24 2022 13:03 utc | 1 The recent WaPo piece backed by the WSJ about munitions stocks come right out and say what people at the bar have been pointing out for quite a while and goes all the way back to the RUSI analysis in early summer. NATO is running out of the munitions to support Ukraine. A careful reading of Russian analysts suggests that Russia is now starting to feel a pinch too, but not as great and is ahead of the production curve relative to the west. Posted by: Lex | Dec 24 2022 13:11 utc | 2 Translated from Russian FYI, MOD Summary Dec24:
the zelensky visit to DC reminded me of the scene in The Pelopenisian War where the Athenian Assembly brays for total war and ends up funding a fleet to attack Syracuse. Posted by: exile | Dec 24 2022 13:39 utc | 4 thanks for info and comments Can you reference the blinken commnent about ” leaving Afganistan to support Ukraine war” very important reveal. thanks Posted by: brian j shore | Dec 24 2022 13:52 utc | 5 Lex @2 Posted by: bobzibub | Dec 24 2022 14:07 utc | 6 Posted by: Lex | Dec 24 2022 13:11 utc | 2 Posted by: Battenmountain | Dec 24 2022 14:18 utc | 7 Aside from the Indian wars, which lasted from about 1607 to 1918, America’s longest war is Somalia, which is presently completing its 30th year. Posted by: bob sykes | Dec 24 2022 14:40 utc | 8 statement about how the US had to leave Afghanistan to be able to support Ukraine. Posted by: whirlX | Dec 24 2022 14:41 utc | 9 Saw the other day Nancy Pelosi kiss the hand of Zelensky in Washington, it was a surreal moment, the embracing of the Ukrainian neo-Nazi’s is complete. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 24 2022 14:50 utc | 10 Posted by: bobzibub | Dec 24 2022 14:07 utc | 6 Posted by: Lex | Dec 24 2022 14:53 utc | 11
Another obvious lie from the team of “Lie, Cheat, Steal”. At the time they said they left because they were 100% confident that the military and government structures they had put in place were well positioned to control the country and keep the Taliban out. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 24 2022 15:01 utc | 12 @ Lex #2
Russia is not starting to feel any kind of a pinch. They are still trying to use up their 40-year-old stocks. They haven’t even started with the more recent stuff yet. Posted by: Intelligent Dasein | Dec 24 2022 15:14 utc | 13 Posted by: Lex | Dec 24 2022 13:11 utc | 2 Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 24 2022 15:39 utc | 14 “Biden went all in on Ukraine and unless he gets real lucky, he’s likely to lose it all” Posted by: Nanker | Dec 24 2022 15:42 utc | 15 Morocco choose sides, supplies T-72B tanks to Ukraine Posted by: Passerby | Dec 24 2022 15:47 utc | 16 Posted by: exile | Dec 24 2022 13:39 utc | 4 Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 24 2022 15:48 utc | 17 an excellent piece from Caitlin Johnstone . . .
Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 24 2022 15:49 utc | 18 Libertarian Institute reports on Morroco selling 90 T-72B Main Battle Tanks to US and Netherlands to send to 404 for $95 million: Posted by: Peter | Dec 24 2022 15:52 utc | 19 Not much different is happening in Eastern Ukraine — it might seem. After all, the ground will not be suitable for armor until early January, which is also about the time that the 100,000 combat troops undergoing training behind the front lines in Ukraine finish working up and equipping. Still, the UAF is losing hundreds of men a day, the RF very few. And logistical support is continuously degraded. Early next year, you will see a “tipping point”. When the end comes, it may come faster than you expect. Make no mistake, this is the Endgame for Ukraine. Although just the beginning of a new game for Europe and the US. Many thanks to MoA and the “barflies” who continue to inspire as here: Posted by: julianmacfarlane | Dec 24 2022 15:56 utc | 21 Posted by: Passerby | Dec 24 2022 15:47 utc | 16 Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 24 2022 15:59 utc | 22 Posted by: Lex | Dec 24 2022 13:11 utc | 2 Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 24 2022 16:18 utc | 23 Posted by: Peter | Dec 24 2022 15:54 utc | 20 Posted by: Passerby | Dec 24 2022 16:19 utc | 24 Posted by: julianmacfarlane | Dec 24 2022 15:56 utc | 21 Russian losses: “if only because the Russians have no way of hiding the truth about their losses – which, fortunately for them, were only about 6000 KIA as of September and perhaps 7000 now – wounded at about 10:1” Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 24 2022 16:20 utc | 25 It’s a missile/drone world and everything else is obsolete, including aircraft carriers, manned aircraft, artillery. . . Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 24 2022 16:23 utc | 26 @ Passerby | Dec 24 2022 16:19 utc | 24 Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 24 2022 16:28 utc | 27 Fox News Libtard Neil Cavuto had a segment that included a video supplied by Zelensky of Russian shelling of Kherson. It was then explained that Putin is a terrorist who just kills for no reason, just to be killing innocent people not connected to the military. Posted by: OdessaConnected | Dec 24 2022 16:30 utc | 28 Merry Christmas!!! Posted by: Athanasios | Dec 24 2022 16:37 utc | 29 @ Passerby | Dec 24 2022 15:47 utc | 16 Posted by: james | Dec 24 2022 16:43 utc | 30 @ OdessaConnected | Dec 24 2022 16:30 utc | 28 Posted by: james | Dec 24 2022 16:45 utc | 31 mostly about germany and china dynamics in regards the war in ukraine and etc.. from indian punchline.. it seems germany might be finally smelling the roses, as opposed to having its head pushed into the shit that usa likes to feed it.. Posted by: james | Dec 24 2022 16:59 utc | 32 @ Passerby | Dec 24 2022 15:47 utc | 16
@ Troll | Dec 24 2022 15:59 utc | 22
Customer better be patient.
Laughable. @16 Algeria is russian friendly, and morrocos enemy. That’s why Morocco sent it to Ukraine Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 24 2022 17:17 utc | 34 Translated from Russian FYI:
Posted by: Outraged | Dec 24 2022 17:59 utc | 35
Перехват (perehvat) means intercept: Pere=over/trans, hvat=grip/catch Posted by: hopehely | Dec 24 2022 18:19 utc | 36 Translated from Russian FYI:
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@ hopehely | Dec 24 2022 18:19 utc | 36
Okay, got it! Thank you kindly. Cheers. Posted by: Nanker | Dec 24 2022 15:42 utc | 15
Depends on your definition of “defeat.” The USA is ruled by a criminal gangs who steal money from the US Treasury and War(!) is the prime racket for it. The “gangs” that rule and the oligarchy that nurtures and funds them win better if there is a defeat rather than a victory. Policy makers who favor war (anywhere) always win in their careers and those who oppose war even if they were totally correct in their anlyses always lose because the mainstream media Narrative is run by the aforementioned gangs. You can, at this time, no longer question them–if you do you are on the outside. And this basic balance has been true at least inside government since WWII. My own father, a US diplomat, in meetings in the State Department cautiously dissented (only in private) from US Vietnam policy (he worked underneath William Bundy) and took a major hit to his career and was, essentially exiled to a dangerous post in Somalia. Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Dec 24 2022 18:30 utc | 39 SMO is awesome. It’s just pure genius. Tens of thousands of dead and untold destruction is so 12D fantastic, only the trolls don’t get it. NATO is shit in their pants. No shit. I mean it. Let me tell you bunch of idiots. Putin ought to hang upside down together with all the Kremlin morons who started this disaster. The West smells blood and they will not give up. If Russia gets out of this mess in one piece, which it probably won’t, it will be a miracle. Now go stock up on iodine pills. Not that they will do you any good. Posted by: HB | Dec 24 2022 18:44 utc | 40 ” So, the maximalist position, in short: Ukraine is already defeated with 200k dead, and the Russian so-called “attrition warfare” campaign has been a resounding success. ” Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 24 2022 18:58 utc | 41 HB@40 Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 24 2022 19:07 utc | 42
Yes, it is obvious Ukraine is defeated. Also obvious that Russia is now fighting NATO. Hence Putin’s recent wording change from SMO to war (that he does not want). Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 24 2022 19:15 utc | 43 The WaPo piece also talks about how the US thinks they need to train Ukrainian troops better so they don’t use so much artillery. That is, the US answer is to get Ukraine to adopt more light infantry tactics against heavy artillery and armor. Pure genius. It did work in Kharkov but that context is unlikely to be seen again. If there is or would soon be plenty of artillery and ammunition for Ukraine (which still needs to capture 84k km/2 plus crimea to reach its goals), then nobody would be saying “moar light infantry tactics”. Except it’s all US doctrine knows at the moment. A change started a few years ago but the titanic doesn’t turn on a dime. Posted by: Lex | Dec 24 2022 19:30 utc | 45 Bhadrakumar offers valuable insights but fails to mention that any German rapprochement with Russia would necessarily entail dissolving the current coalition. To be replaced by…what, exactly? Much of Scholz’s own party is opposed to any such rapprochement, and it’s unclear whether the CDU or FDP (if it even passes the 5% hurdle in the event of new elections) would play along. Posted by: malenkov | Dec 24 2022 19:35 utc | 46 Russian military chiefs release names of USA bio-weapons in Ukraine enablers. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 24 2022 19:36 utc | 47 @HB | Dec 24 2022 18:44 utc | 40 Posted by: OdessaConnected | Dec 24 2022 19:40 utc | 48 Outraged @37– Re my (48) comment, an addendum. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 24 2022 19:51 utc | 50 Secretary Antony J. Blinken at a Press Availability 12/22/2022
Posted by: Bill Quick | Dec 24 2022 19:52 utc | 51 Mr. Blinken gets another slapped down from China’s FM, Mr. Wang Yi
It’s December 2022. And we have heard this before; that Washington must take seriously legitimate concerns Posted by: Likklemore | Dec 24 2022 19:58 utc | 52 Many very needy people in the Third World have and will continue to die because EU aid has been cut to them and funneled to Ukraine instead. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 24 2022 19:59 utc | 53 Posted by: Lex | Dec 24 2022 13:11 utc | 2 Posted by: abrogard | Dec 24 2022 20:01 utc | 55 Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 24 2022 20:08 utc | 55 ” As the war drags on in the Ukraine, the gloomy economic outlook continues to trigger protests across Europe. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 24 2022 20:18 utc | 56 ” ‘Stop using salami tactics,’ China tells US Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 24 2022 20:21 utc | 57 ” When we, that is “we” in the United States, were a part of the British empire, we had a majority who decided to separate from the Brits. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 24 2022 20:26 utc | 58 Funny RT main page listings: “Only Putin can end Ukrainian conflict – Italian ex-PM”–that would be Mario Draghi. Yet we also have, “Peace in Ukraine depends on Washington – Orban”. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 24 2022 20:21 utc | 58 Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 24 2022 20:41 utc | 60 @ karlof1 | Dec 24 2022 19:49 utc | 50 As an island nation, USA simply does not have means to be traipsing among the nations trying to arrange their affairs to benefit this or that American notional fad, person, financial speculator, or corporation. That’s not why we’re here. That’s a geriatric’s dream, someone spoiled as they aged and soiling as they decline. Posted by: The Rev. David R. Gr | Dec 24 2022 20:59 utc | 62 Deplorable Commissar (57). Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 24 2022 21:02 utc | 63 Athanasios, Ελλαδα, #29 Posted by: LogosApplied | Dec 24 2022 21:09 utc | 64 @ karlof1 | Dec 24 2022 19:49 utc | 50
Yes, I don’t know exactly for USA but here (EU) we are out for a while. And not only artillery (German Howitzer 2000 quickly out of order to fire, French César (12…)).
At the presser, the last question to Ze and Brandon was: why not give them all the weaponery they need. Posted by: La Bastille | Dec 24 2022 21:09 utc | 65 Et un Joyeux Noël à tous et toutes (sorry…no neutral pronoun in French ) Posted by: La Bastille | Dec 24 2022 21:11 utc | 67 Posted by: Outraged | Dec 24 2022 17:59 utc | 35 Posted by: OdessaConnected | Dec 24 2022 16:30 utc | 28 “That’s why Morocco sent it to Ukraine” Posted by: Nanker | Dec 24 2022 21:29 utc | 70 @neofeudalfuture Posted by: Vikichka | Dec 24 2022 21:29 utc | 71 @ La Bastille | Dec 24 2022 21:09 utc | 66 @ Don Bacon | Dec 24 2022 16:23 utc | 26 Outraged | Dec 24 2022 21:29 utc | 73 Posted by: rk | Dec 24 2022 21:44 utc | 74 Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 24 2022 19:59 utc | 54 @Deplorable Commissar | Dec 24 2022 20:26 utc | 59 Posted by: OdessaConnected | Dec 24 2022 21:48 utc | 76 ” Do you have any useful information or views of your own that you would like to share? I’m sure everyone would like to hear what YOU think rather than just your endless nitpicking of their posts. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 24 2022 21:53 utc | 77 ” “Not very long ago, China was a foreign aid recipient. Now, it rivals the United States as one of the world’s largest donors, through traditional development aid or through financial loans. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 24 2022 21:59 utc | 78
Hardly. Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 24 2022 22:02 utc | 79 ” Russia is kicking the heavily us backed proxy troops around like rag dolls, and China is in the process of leaving it in the dust economically. and you describe this as “complaining impotently”. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 24 2022 22:03 utc | 80
Not only that, when the Empire Loyalists left the northern colonies and migrated to Upper Canada (Southern Ontario) at the end of the Revolutionary War, they took the natives from the Finger Lakes region with them, rather than leave them to be punished. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 24 2022 22:07 utc | 81 What about if the megamillionaires, the ‘oligarchs’ were offered lucrative futures in cooperation with Russia (the Allies as they all still refer to themselves on Telegram) ? Posted by: abrogard | Dec 24 2022 22:13 utc | 83 Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 24 2022 22:16 utc | 83 “I meant purely food and medical aid.” Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 24 2022 22:17 utc | 84 Doing more would have “the prospect of breaking up NATO, breaking up Europe, and the rest of the world,” Biden said, noting that he’s spent “hundreds” of hours persuading US partners around the globe to help Ukraine, but “they are not looking for a Third World War” by fighting Russia directly. “But I’ve said too much.” Translated from Russian FYI:
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@ rk | Dec 24 2022 21:44 utc | 75 @Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 24 2022 22:02 utc | 80
Ukraine has nowhere near that number, due to the ongoing migration of Ukrainians looking for work between 2014 and 2022 (Ukraine did not carry out a proper census in the past years to hide the huge loss of people), the populations of the areas now under Russian control, and the further migration of people in the past year. It maybe has 20 million absolute tops, and that will be heavily skewed to the older age groups, and the infirm. The birth rate also crashed in Ukraine in the past two decades, so natural deaths outnumber births. ” The natives were given a large land grant along the Grand River, a small portion of which still remains. Their Chief Thayendanegea (Joseph Brant) was treated well, including meeting the King and he had a number of farms. He also had slaves, some of whom were white (gasp). Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 24 2022 22:29 utc | 88 ” Stop asking stupid questions and start searching online yourself, this the last time I do your homework for you. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 24 2022 22:34 utc | 89
My error. Sorry. But i see Poland would like to enter the war. Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 24 2022 22:37 utc | 90 Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 24 2022 19:15 utc | 43 Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 24 2022 22:46 utc | 92 Posted by: Outraged | Dec 24 2022 17:10 utc | 33 Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 24 2022 22:50 utc | 93 Posted by: Outraged | Dec 24 2022 17:10 utc | 33 Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 24 2022 22:53 utc | 94 Posted by: abrogard | Dec 24 2022 20:01 utc | 55 Posted by: Exile | Dec 24 2022 22:54 utc | 95 I see a couple of references here today from RT. The article that caught my eye, however, was the one about various churches’ role in Ukraine conflicts. The article below focuses on the current conflict in Ukraine. It also includes their involvement and persecution history going back about a hundred years. Posted by: HelenB | Dec 24 2022 22:59 utc | 96 At some point, Ukie generals will realize they’ve just committed the last of their reserves. What the front lines will be then is unknown, but they’ll be collapsed from what they are now. Zelensky and his Nazi overseers behave akin to their Hitlerian idols, begging the question: When will reality make them implode? Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 24 2022 20:36 utc | 60 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 24 2022 23:01 utc | 98 @92 a troll is in the eye of the beholder. Besides I’m just happy if you read, your comments aren’t necessary although I’m happy to respond as well. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 24 2022 23:06 utc | 99
Posted by: ? | Dec 24 2022 23:09 utc | 100 |
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