Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 22, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-232

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Comments

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 23 2022 2:14 utc | 159
Extraordinary how Blinken, Scholz, Ned Price et.co. talk about needing to negotiate, while they evidently haven’t a single time called to Russia. It’s all show for domestic audience.
The most likely explanation whether or not they want to negotiate is practical consideration of being able to keep feeding more old Warsaw Pact stuff to ukiestan, which is very hard now.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 23 2022 10:09 utc | 201

@ karlof1
Thank you.
@ rjb1.5 | Dec 22 2022 21:15 utc | 108
Thank you kindly. Onforwarded.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 23 2022 10:12 utc | 202

Who wants to bet a Guinness that the meeting between Medvedev and Xi Jinping will be spun as a potential regime’ change operation by the Chinese against Putin?
Because that’s exactly the kind of lie Mi6 will spin into the British media.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 23 2022 10:15 utc | 203

From ukrinform:

“We expect the collapse of profits from oil and gas exports to be at more than 50%, precisely because of the introduction of the EU embargo on oil and petroleum products and the introduction of price restrictions. Oil and gas account for 60% and 40% of federal budget revenues. We expect that Russia’s revenues will fall below the critical level of $40 billion per quarter” – Yuliya Svyrydenko, First Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Economy of Ukraine

A best this is a mistake. If oil is 60% and gas is 40% respectively, then oil and gas together ought to be 100% of Russian federal budget revenues. No way.

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 23 2022 10:18 utc | 204

@ Exile | Dec 23 2022 10:08 utc | 201
Indeed. Same as the fake intercepted RF soldiers phone calls home to mama. Manufactured AFU projection as vile propaganda. NYT ?, Non-paywalled ? Check!
@ Arch Bungle | Dec 23 2022 10:15 utc | 204
Not a Guinness ! But do have a single, old, holed sock I’m prepared to risk on chance.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 23 2022 10:18 utc | 205

Brother Ma @ 197

Tsipras was a third – rate political – hack, compromise candidate ; not a threat to anyone and that was why he was chosen . Not particularly bright, a nerd in the worst sense and craven. A fraud of the first water. So much for a “Left of Left “ candidate who turned out to be the most slavish bootlick of the Americans.

in retrospect, the proto-Zelensky.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 23 2022 10:36 utc | 206

I wouldn’t worry about the prospect of US troops being used in the Ukraine. Russia would just bring in the Taliban and that would be it.

Posted by: B. Wildered | Dec 23 2022 10:42 utc | 207

“I hope that generated a few smiles. What a wit!
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 23 2022 2:14 utc | 159”
Yup – she is a veritable Catherine of Russia, still relatively young and wholly knowledgeable and experienced in dealing not just with the Collective Waste but the Rest of The World.
I hope she is in the mix for a future Top leadership role. It would be a poke in the eye of the Woke Unipolarist dumb citizen slaves to see that Russians are actually and have always been a lot more advanced , culturally and in equal rights , then our dumbed down ‘civilisation’.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 23 2022 11:07 utc | 208

Cheap NAFO concern trolls: “Our side can terrorize and mass slaughter civilians on your side, and we can assassinate people on your side whenever we want! The only reason the Russians don’t do that is because they are weak! Our side sucker-punches your side again and again and Russia does nothing!”
Aside from SOCOM’s penny-posting NAFO trolls (North American Fatties Organization?) reveling in the West’s criminal behavior, what is revealing is their inability to understand why others would not behave as they do. They cannot even begin to comprehend the “civilizational war” that others here talk of. As with the British before America took their empire away, the American Empire lackeys, sycophants, and hangers-on assume themselves to be the apex of civilization, and the very notion that they might not be is incomprehensible to them. They view the West as the very definition of civilization, and as such crimes like piracy, rape, torture, genocide are acceptable when the West commits them. Those means are justified by the ends of being in support of the imperial conception of civilization. They cannot see that those means render the imperial conception of civilization to be cancer afflicting humanity.
Note to NAFO (Now All Fairies Online?) trolls: The Russians (and Chinese and Iranians and Cubans and Yemenis and …) do not behave like you because they are not like you. They are better than you. They represent the direction civilization will go, not you.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 23 2022 11:25 utc | 209

Translated from Russian FYI, ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z) (Transformation (Z)) (Open TG link)

Chronicle of strikes and mutual shelling in the NWO zone during the night of December 22-23, 2022
▪️Russian artillery fired on targets in Bleshne, Chernihiv Oblast, as well as Novovasilyevka, Atinsk, Palovka and Krasnopolye in Sumy Oblast.
▪️ In Kharkiv Oblast, the Russian Armed Forces hit enemy positions in Strelechya, Neskuchne, Volchansk, Volokhovka and Staritsa.
▪️In the Starobelsk direction, Russian forces struck concentrations of AFU manpower in Kupiansk, Novomlinsk, Krakhmalne, Berestovo and Makiivka.
▪️In the Bakhmut (Artemivsk) direction, the Russian Armed Forces hit targets in Verkhnekamensk, Bakhmut, Kleshcheyevka, Aleksandro-Shultino, and Novgorodsk.
▪️In the Donetsk direction, Russian forces hit enemy positions in Kostyantynivka, Vodyane, Krasnogorovka, and Yhorhiyivka.
Ukrainian formations, in turn, shelled Donetsk, Makeyevka, Krasny Partizan and Horlivka.
▪️On the Yuzhnodonetsk direction, the Russian Armed Forces hit enemy targets in Novomikhailovka, Vremievka, Bolshaya Novoselka and Ugledar.
▪️ In Dnipropetrovsk region, Russian artillery fired at Ukrainian armed forces’ positions on the right bank of the Dnieper River in Marganets and Nikopol: Energodar and the Zaporizhzhya NPP are regularly shelled from there.
▪️On the southern section of the front, the Russian Armed Forces carried out strikes on AFU facilities in Kherson.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 23 2022 11:25 utc | 210

Translated from Russian FYI, ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z)
(Transformation (Z)) (Open TG link)(Ten(10) referenced zoom-able tactical Situ maps)

Frontline report for the morning of 23.12.2022⚡️
The Russian army intensified in the Luhansk direction. It attempted to advance to Berestovoi in the northern sector with artillery support. It also conducted assault actions near Novoselovskoye. Slightly to the south, supported by artillery, it attacked in the direction of Stelmakhivka. Further south – in the area of Ploshchanka and Krasnopopovka. And to the southeast it tried to dislodge the AFU from the bridgehead for the offensive on Lysychansk in Belogorovka. (Fig. 1)
East of Soledar, the Wagner PMC attacked from the direction of Yakovlevka. Fierce fighting is taking place on the southeastern outskirts of the city. There is artillery fire at Soledar and Bakhmutsky. The Wagnerians are not going to withdraw from the eastern outskirts of Bakhmut. There are fierce battles oncoming here. The AFU received reinforcements. To the south of the city also counter fighting in the area of Opytnoye. The Ukrainian army seeks to seize the initiative here as well. To the south, the Wagner PMC is attacking from Kurdyumovka and Ozaryanivka. The aim is to take control of the section of the Russian military road, which also goes through the major logistics centers of the AFU in Chasovoy Yar and Toretsk. Russian troops from the direction of Maiorsk tried to advance to Druzhba. (Fig.2)
On the northern section of the Donetsk front, Russian Armed Forces attacked AFU positions near New York. Artillery was firing at New York. To the south, Russian troops attacked in the direction of Alexandropol. They also tried to advance and cut a section of the H-20 highway near Kamenka. To the southwest, the Russian Armed Forces attacked from the direction of Opytnoye and in the direction of Vodyanoye. Further southwest, they launched an assault off Nevelskoye. Another ground attack on the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ fortifications in Krasnogorovka. Artillery was firing on the city itself. Fierce fighting in the city limits of Marinka. The Ukrainian garrison continues stubborn resistance. Russian troops again tried to break the AFU defense in Novomikhailovka. The Ukrainian army continues shelling Donetsk. (Fig.3)

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 23 2022 11:32 utc | 211

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 23 2022 9:46 utc | 199
My pleasure and a fascinating life.
Posted by: The banned Z | Dec 23 2022 8:09 utc | 192
Noone cares about the reserves that were stolen from Russia. It may have even been bait set by the Russians to show the RoW what the US is like for real. Russia has gotten that back manifold ; in land and plant reconquered in the Ukraine. All the Euro/ US financial /ag powerhouses like Black Rock,Cargill ,Monsanto/Bayer have all lost much more in both present and future earnings and profits. Guess who will make up for those shareholders dividends? The US /EU /Anglosphere Ex- Colonial Average Joes. Less investment income, more tax ,less medical , unemployment benefits ,education , life expectancy etc. Can you believe that the US has such a low life expectancy? Laughable if it wasn’t so sad.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 23 2022 10:36 utc | 207
Yes! The pro-peace moderate Elensky morphed into US bootlick , and gimp of the Ukronazis. Who figured! Haha. I guess that is what happens when you work for a greedy Zionazi oligarch and then get threatened by “blood and guts” real Ukronazis who don’t care so much anymore that you belong to Mossad.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 23 2022 11:48 utc | 212

Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 23 2022 11:48 utc | 213
The west can steal assets. But those assets are already accumulated trade surpluses which were stolen. What matters for the future is not the static quantity (assets), but flow quantity. Trade is the flow which causes immediate changes in nations, and the flow will not be conducted on western terms or currencies. That will quickly level the playfield and is a root driver in declining living standards in the west.
Of course, the stolen assets are a pity, when one considers how much gold they could have bought and strengthen the alternative BRICS/SCO currencies.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 23 2022 12:03 utc | 213

With reference to whirlX’s post yesterday on the “Russia Takes New Steps To Secures Its Western Border” thread:

Posted by: whirlX | Dec 22 2022 9:57 utc | 162
As I wrote before, the Crimea is the key point and a wet dream of NATO/US ever since the ending of CCCP.
Everything else is a secondary and less important.
The whole conflict is about having Crimea under the NATO/US umbrella.
The reason for this war actually started by shady manipulation of contracts in Ukrainian political sphere on agreeing/disagreeing on gas transit prices in Ukraine and RF military base in Sevastopol lease called ‘Kharkiv Pact’.
Already in 2010 West with their shadowy fingers managed to manipulate Ukraine to end this Pact and cancel RF lease in 2017 after which RF Navy would have to leave Crimea.

, some years ago I saved a blog page entitled:
“Breaking! US Planned to Turn #Crimea into Military Base Against
Russia”
, posted by Lada Ray on a blog called Futurist Trendcast on April 24, 2014. That page does not seem to be up anymore, but oddly, a document it linked to is still available. That document is a US Naval Facilities Engineering Command call to tender entitled: “Renovations to School#05 – Sevastopol OHASIS ID-20420.”
Here’s an excerpt of that blog page, dated April 24, 2014:

The information coming to the surface now shows that if Crimea stayed as part of Ukraine, it would have become a huge NATO/US military base. […]
At least one hospital in Crimea’s capital Simferopol and at least one school in Sevastopol were targeted by the US/NATO just recently. They were planning on turning the hospital into a base for their troops after a massive renovation. One of the high schools (a gymnasium) in Sevastopol the Kiev authorities were about to sell to the US to be repurposed as a school for spies, targeting Russia. It was planned that the kids going to that school would be learning languages and spying techniques since an early age.
It appears Americans wanted to turn the Crimea into a massive military/navy/intelligence complex. […]

A link to the call to tender in question, dated June 2013, oddly enough, is still up as of today (23/12/22 10:36 Greenwich). I can post Ray’s entire blog page here if anyone’s interested. Merry Christmas!

Posted by: Gene Poole | Dec 23 2022 12:08 utc | 214

Zelensky is America’s ally, just as Saddam, Assad and Gaddafi were America’s allies. It takes a specially stupid person to trust the Americans.

Posted by: D J G | Dec 23 2022 12:08 utc | 215

Translated from Russian FYI, ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z)
(Transformation (Z)) (Open TG link)(Referenced zoom-able tactical Situ map)

The Russian Army is advancing near Artemivsk and Avdeevka, and is striking in Kharkiv Region and Liman – the main thing from the report of the General Staff of the Ukrainian Armed Forces:
▪️The Russian Armed Forces carried out six missile and six air strikes in the past 24 hours, including at critical facilities in Kharkiv and Dnipropetrovsk regions, and also carried out over 70 shelling from MLRS.
▪️Russian forces carried out assault actions in the areas of Vysyshaya in Sumy Region, Khatnei in Kharkiv Region, Stelmakhovka, Andreevka, Nadiya, Makeyevka, Ploshchanka, Chervonopopovka and Dibrovka in LNR; Novoselovka, Yampolovka, Yakovlevka, Bakhmutskoye, Artemovsk, Mayorsk, New York, Vodyane, Krasnogorovka and Marinka in DNR.
▪️On the Kupyansk direction, Russian troops inflicted fire on the AFU near Novomlyansk, Kupyansk, Krakhmalsk and Berestovoye in the Kharkiv region and Novoselovskoye and Stelmakhovka in the LNR.
▪️On the Liman direction, the Russian Armed Forces shelled Ukrainian positions in Makiivka, Ploshchanka, Chervonopopivka and Dibrovka in the LNR.

&

Units of the Ukrainian Armed Forces stationed in the city of Artemivsk (Ukrainian name: Bakhmut) in the Donetsk People’s Republic are equipping firing points on the roofs of residential buildings to operate air defense systems. This was reported by officer of the People’s Militia of the LNR Andrey Marochko.
According to him, the AFU in Artemivsk continues to prepare for combat operations in urban conditions.

&

Emergency power cuts are recorded in the Ukrainian capital, it is impossible to stabilize the voltage in the power grids of Kiev, said the Ukrainian energy holding DTEK.
Trolleybuses and streetcars will not go on routes in Kiev until spring, they have been replaced by buses, the Ukrainian edition of Strana reported.
According to the deputy head of the Kyiv City State Administration, Petr Panteleev, all electric transport has been replaced by buses until full power is restored. At the same time, he noted, the load on the energy system only increases in winter, which makes it unlikely that trolleybuses and streetcars will return before spring.

Comment: Evermore scarce POL consumed transporting & distributing to buses, plus additional consumption by actual buses. Further strain on already derelict logistics. Transitory copium re ever increasing strain on electrical grid/network.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 23 2022 12:56 utc | 216

@ Posted by: krypton | Dec 23 2022 10:00 utc | 200
Interesting. Fails the smell check.
A variant of “Z” grade low-quality poopaganda. T “Seuss” Giesel would grade this article an F minus.
A quick and fast-track name check on the authors and research assistants hit pay dirt.
The assistant researchers are all Ukrainian citizens. Enough said. See how the names are spelled versus the original Russian Cyrillic.
Now the NYT bios of the reporter page yielded interesting results. Lead reporter wrote a poorly worded poopaganda hit piece on the Russian Bombing of civilians in Syria in 2019. Won a Pulitzer prize for that trash. The second one is a Columbia U graduate in computer science. Specialized in computer algorithms to analyze written language text patterns. The third reporter hit pay dirt big time! A former Murdoch media reporter in the WSJ. Under the banner “National Security”.

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Dec 23 2022 13:15 utc | 217

Lorsque les USA fournissent des tonnes d’armes dont des missiles patriots sol-air, c’est une escalade vers la guerre froide dans le ciel donc le ciel répond à qui de droit en envoyant une tempête froide à 850 h.Pa pour les fêtes de Noël :
“>https://twitter.com/KeraunosObs/status/1605962471197396994/
« Just look it » comme on dit mais j’espère que certains comprendront et que d’autres se souviendront.
“>https://www.universal.org/fr/bispo-macedo/lorsque-le-feu-est-descendu-du-carmel/
Les néoconservateurs responsables de cette politique ont été jugés, les USA doivent se purger de ce serpent. A ce propos, le responsable du complot contre Kennedy est Lyndon Johnson mais il a ses fans :
“La filiation matrilinéaire de l’arbre généalogique des Johnson peut –être tracée depuis trois générations. En principe, d’après la Loi ancestrale, cela devrait suffire pour affirmer que, oui, Lyndon Baines Johnson fut le premier Président Juif des Etats-Unis. Et le seul, jusqu’à présent.”
“>https://www.tribunejuive.info/2016/11/07/un-president-americain-juif-par-victor-kuperminc/

Posted by: Christophe Nicolas | Dec 23 2022 13:17 utc | 218

Orban accuses the Ukraine of creating a system of discrimination against national minorities (RIA Novosti, December 21, 2022 — in Russian)

In 2015, the rights of national minorities in the Ukraine were taken away, and more than 100 schools are being constantly discriminated against, while earlier the system suited everyone, said Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban.
“Until 2015, there was a system in the Ukraine that created order and perfectly satisfied all the minorities living there, including the Hungarian one. There was peace. No harm was done to anyone. In 2015, they went and took away their rights. More than 100 schools are being constantly discriminated against,” Orban said at a government briefing when asked about the Ukraine’s law on minorities.
According to him, Hungary does not consider it timely to raise this topic now because of solidarity with the Ukraine, however, it will not “facilitate the Ukraine’s participation in any international integration or conclude any significant bilateral agreements with it until this issue is resolved.”
Tensions in relations between the Ukraine and Hungary arose against the background of discussions about the Ukrainian law on education, which significantly reduces the possibility of education in the languages of national minorities. The law entered into force on September 28, 2017 and was to be introduced in stages by the end of 2020. Hungarian Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said that Hungary would continue to block the ministerial meeting of the Ukraine–NATO commission because there was no progress in resolving issues that concern Budapest.

Hungarian Parliament Speaker speaks frankly about the Ukraine and the West (RIA Novosti, December 21, 2022 — in Russian)

The Western world has made a serious mistake in the situation with the Ukraine, László Kövér, Speaker of the Hungarian National Assembly, said during a live broadcast of the InfoRadio radio station.
“The West made a strategic mistake when it tried not only to take the Ukraine out of Moscow’s sphere of interest, but also to turn it into a large military base aimed at Russia,” he said.
According to the politician, sanctions have harmed Europe much more than Russia.
“As the sanctions policy began, it became more and more obvious that there were efforts, not necessarily European initiatives, of which the European political elite for some reason became enthusiastic supporters: to destroy Russia economically, politically, in every sense, separate from Europe in order to create a new Iron Curtain,” Kövér added.
At the same time, he stressed that Budapest stands for the sovereignty of the Ukraine.
The armed conflict should be resolved as soon as possible, and then a new European security system should be created, in which the interests of all countries of the continent will be fairly taken into account, the head of the parliament concluded.

EC to keep 22 billion euros earmarked for Hungary, media writes (RIA Novosti, December 23, 2022 — in Russian)

The European Commission has blocked 22 billion euros, which Hungary, according to the signed agreements, should receive from European cohesion funds, Reuters reports.
The decision to withhold this amount for Hungary came as the EC and Budapest signed a partnership agreement on Thursday detailing how the EU budget money will be spent as part of the operational programs proposed by Hungary.
The blocked amount represents transfers that Hungary should receive from the long-term EU budget between 2021 and 2027. Programs that Hungary planned to spend 22 billion euros on included education for disadvantaged children, modernization of railway transport, access to broadband and assistance to regions affected by the closure of coal plants.
“The European Commission believes that the horizontal enabling condition under the EU Charter of Human Rights has not yet been met. This means that the EC cannot compensate for the costs (of Hungary). We will continue to work with the Hungarian authorities to overcome this situation,” the agency quotes the words Elisa Ferreira, European Commissioner for Cohesion and Reform.
As noted, Hungary will be able to receive, without any prior action, 1.5% of the funds in the form of pre-financing, as well as some cash in the form of technical assistance for project preparation.
In mid-September, the European Commission proposed launching a special conditionality mechanism with respect to Hungary in order to protect the EU budget “from violations of the principles of the rule of law in Hungary.” This meant freezing about 7.5 billion euros of EU funding for Budapest. This mechanism, designed to protect the community budget from corruption, was activated for the first time in two years of its existence.
Subsequently, the European Commission decided to maintain its original proposal to suspend 65% of obligations for the payment of Hungary’s funds from certain EU general funds, although Prime Minister Viktor Orban said that Budapest had complied with the entire list of requirements of the European Commission, which related to measures to combat corruption, increase the transparency of public procurement, strengthening the independence of the judiciary.
The Hungarian Prime Minister said that the European Commission continued to block EU funds for Hungary because it wants to influence Hungary’s position on migration, sex education and sanctions, but Budapest does not intend to change its point of view on these issues, which it considers fundamental.

How dare those backward Hungarians and their elected leaders voice their worthless opinions and oppose the European Commission, when it’s the freedom, sovereignty and democracy of European countries, such as Hungary, that is at stake!

Posted by: S | Dec 23 2022 13:24 utc | 219

Translated from Russian FYI, MOD Summary Dec23:
ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z) (Transformation (Z)) (Open/Public TG link)

Summary by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the progress of a special military operation in Ukraine (23.12.2022)
The armed forces of the Russian Federation continue to conduct a special military operation.
◽️ In the Kupyansk direction, more than 30 Ukrainian servicemen, two infantry fighting vehicles and four vehicles were destroyed as a result of the shelling of enemy strongholds in the areas of Kyslovka, Krakhmalne and Berestovoye settlements in the Kharkiv region.
◽️ In the Krasno-Limanskoe direction in the areas of the settlements of Nevskoe and Novolyubovka in the Luhansk People’s Republic, attack aircraft and artillery struck a concentration of enemy manpower and equipment. In addition, two sabotage and reconnaissance groups of the Ukrainian armed forces were destroyed in the districts of the Bear tract and Serebryansky forestry in the Luhansk People’s Republic. The enemy’s losses during the day in this direction amounted to more than 40 Ukrainian servicemen and mercenaries, three armored combat vehicles and two pickup trucks.
◽️ In the Donetsk direction, Russian forces supported by assault aircraft and artillery strikes continued their offensive. High-precision strikes by the Russian Air Force struck enemy strongholds near the city of Artemivsk in the Donetsk People’s Republic. More than 80 Ukrainian servicemen and mercenaries, two tanks, five armored fighting vehicles and six vehicles were destroyed.
◽️ In the South Donetsk direction, up to 45 Ukrainian servicemen, four armored personnel carriers and three pickup trucks were destroyed as a result of active actions of Russian units and comprehensive fire attacks on AFU manpower and equipment near Novomayorske, Prechistovka and Vodyane settlements of the Donetsk People’s Republic.
💥 Operational-tactical aviation, missile forces and artillery hit 62 AFU artillery units in firing positions, manpower and military equipment in 87 areas. Two artillery ammunition depots of the AFU were destroyed near the Novoselidovka settlement of the Donetsk People’s Republic.
💥 A US-made AN/TPQ-50 counter-battery control station was destroyed near Ivano-Daryevka populated area of Donetsk People’s Republic. A Ukrainian S-300 anti-aircraft missile system radar station was uncovered and destroyed near the city of Kharkiv.
💥 In the course of counter-battery warfare near the village of Selidovo in Donetsk People’s Republic, two US-made M777 artillery systems were destroyed. In addition, two Ukrainian Grad multiple-launch rocket launchers, which had been used to shell populated areas of the Donetsk People’s Republic, were destroyed near Kostyantynivka settlement.
✈️ The Russian Air Force fighter aircraft near the Orekhovo-Vasilevka settlement of the Donetsk People’s Republic shot down an Su-25 aircraft of the Ukrainian air force. Also, a Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopter was shot down near Kramatorsk, Donetsk People’s Republic.
💥 Ten unmanned aerial vehicles were shot down by anti-aircraft defense forces in the areas of Makiivka, Novovovodnoe, Kreminna of the Luhansk People’s Republic, Olhinka, Volodino, Kuteynikovo, Yasynuvata of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Malinovka, Malye Shcherbaki and Polohy of the Zaporizhia region. In addition, two US-made HIMARS multiple rocket launchers were intercepted near Komissarovka village of the Luhansk People’s Republic.
📊 In total, since the beginning of the special military operation destroyed ((+?) over preceding 24hrs):
– 351(+1) aircraft,
– 189(+1) helicopters,
– 2,704(+10) unmanned aerial vehicles,
– 399 anti-aircraft missile systems,
– 7,207(+16) tanks and other armoured combat vehicles,
– 936(+2) multiple rocket launcher combat vehicles,
– 3,702(+2) pieces of field artillery and mortars,
– 7,722(+15) units of special military motor vehicles.

&

The Lithuanian Seimas(Parliament) approved the participation of Lithuanian military instructors in the training of Ukrainian servicemen on courses organized in other EU and NATO countries. The resolution was approved unanimously.
Within the framework of the EU program for training Ukrainian military, Vilnius will delegate 40 instructors, within the framework of a similar NATO mission, which is taking place in the UK, – 25 specialists.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 23 2022 14:06 utc | 220

Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 23 2022 9:21 utc | 197
hear it from a Greek, who had to suffer through Tsipras & Varoufakis!
Whereas the latter was the real mccoy and was really pushing to fuck the eu up, it was Tsipras that caved in & pulled the carpet from under his feet.
All in all though, he was/is the same hypocritical shit.
Mitsotakis now, this is at least a true believer, following through with his “we belong to the west” convictions of the ancient popular right.
Of the 3, Mitsotakis is in my opinion at least a “what you see is what you get” person, but one would have to keep in mind that all these judgments are applicable only to the tiny Greek political microcosm.
Also, poor Mitsotakis is hampered by the “Polish Wife” condition, which in the Ukraine situation only works by augmenting his general subservience to the DC turd.
Anyway, happy Christmas!

Posted by: petrospapas | Dec 23 2022 14:23 utc | 221

“RT Arabic crew under fire from Kiev Forces in outskirts of Donetsk.
The team abandoned their vehicle and ran around 5km on foot to safety. Several people were injured nearby during the shelling.”

Posted by: rk | Dec 23 2022 14:30 utc | 222

It’s official
Ukraine Getting Patriot Battery, Other Defense Weapons . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 23 2022 15:18 utc | 223

After arrival of Z. in Washington ant the standing ovations he got there it is clear that no change in western politics is possible and that the collective West is firmly united in order to defeat Russia.
Putin must understand that this is a total war.

Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 23 2022 15:56 utc | 224

Posted by: petrospapas | Dec 23 2022 14:23 utc | 222
Merry Christmas to you too ,and thanks for the added detail.
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 23 2022 12:03 utc | 214
Change of flows and trade on Russian terms? Hope so. US-led globalisation -mainly because of the fall of the USSR – has hollowed out Western Welfare Capitalism and destroyed what we had. Russia stopping that can maybe help the West get back to better outcomes in wages, dignity, education , healthcare , culture etc.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 23 2022 16:12 utc | 225

On December 12, 2022, Mirosław Hermaszewski, the first and only Polish national in space (flew on Soviet Soyuz-30 mission), has passed away. On March 25, 1943, when he was still a toddler, he was nearly killed by the Banderites. Here’s the story in his own words (h/t Boris Rozhin):

Our family lived in Volhynia, in the village of Lipniki on the Sluch River [in Rovno Oblast, the Ukraine; the village no longer exists — S]. My grandfather lived in a separate household, my father’s family and his brothers had their own farms. When mass killings of Poles by members of the UPA began in Volhynia, grandfather reassured the family that everyone in Lipniki was safe, since we had long lived in great harmony with our Ukrainian neighbors. On the night of March 25–26, 1943, the UPA members, with the assistance of some locals, surrounded Lipniki, set fire to Polish estates, and killed 182 Poles with unimaginable cruelty. Of the Hermaszewski family and my mother’s Bielawski family, 19 people were killed that night.
I was almost killed too. I was one and a half years old. When the massacre began, father ordered mother to take the child with her and run away into the night, and he ran to defend the village with a rifle. One of the bandits caught up with mother and fired at her at close range, aiming for the head. The bullet grazed her skull, my mother fell unconscious on the field. She was left like that. I rolled into a frozen furrow.
When she regained consciousness, she was in shock. She forgot about me and got to the next village. There, Ukrainian women she knew bandaged her up, fed her and hid her. When she realized that she had forgot her child, they did not let her go. It was too dangerous.
In the morning my father found me in the field. He milked a lost cow, bathed me in warm milk on the ashes [of the village — S]. That’s how he saved me. They fled to the next village…
In the summer, father and mother’s two brothers went to the family property to mow some hay. From a wheat field, a UPA member shot at him. He hit his heart. We have become half-orphans.

I once flew over the places where I was born, looked down and thought: “Look—I’m flying! And it could be that I would be lying here in the ground.

During the flight, a radio conversation with my mother was organized. When she said that I was a hero, I interrupted her and corrected her: “Mom, you are the hero.”
That conversation was released only once. Then, after someone in GZP [Main Political Directorate of the Polish Armed Forces — S] figured out what it was about, that fragment was always cut out…

In modern Ukraine, UPA members are celebrated as “heroes,” paid veteran pensions, buried with military honors, etc. Their murders of civilians are not mentioned in textbooks. It is claimed that they “fought against the Nazis,” although, according to German military archives, not a single German soldier or officer has been killed in battle by a UPA member over the entire course of the war.

Posted by: S | Dec 23 2022 16:24 utc | 226

@ karlof1 | Dec 23 2022 2:14 utc | 159
great stuff! thanks… quote at the bottom is bang on..
“Accordingly, why waste time on those who are not able to make any decisions on their own?”
i wonder how the german folks swallow that??

Posted by: james | Dec 23 2022 17:26 utc | 227

I was expecting Zelinski to ask the congress for a minute of silence for the victims of this war.
No! He and Biden joked about the amount of weapons Ukraine will receive, totally indifferent to the deadly consequences of these weapons.
No ounce of decency, pure cynicism. For the US president, war is laughing matter! It tells how low the USA has gone.

Posted by: Virgile | Dec 23 2022 18:45 utc | 228

I read some posters referring to speed being critically important in military campaigns and how it was a feature of the Wehrmacht Russian campaign in WWII. Just remember that 75% or more of Wehrmacht transport was horse drawn.
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/horses-the-mechanized-myth-of-the-eastern-front/.

Posted by: John Sang | Dec 23 2022 18:46 utc | 229

james @228–
Thanks for your reply. I’m assuming Maria was talking to a German media person. But for her astute comment to have any further effect, it must be reported in Germany; otherwise, the effort is a lost exercise.
Someone else mentioned she’d be an excellent elected leader; but as far as I can tell, she has no interest in politicking as the MFA is her chosen career. And she seems to enjoy the public limelight and the respect of her fellows at the MFA.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 23 2022 19:01 utc | 230

If Ukraine isn’t the start of WW3 this probably will be. I wonder if this too will just be a movable red line, we will find out as you can bet the USA will challenge it relentlessly:
Moscow Banned the U.S. from Entering the Northern Sea Route

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 23 2022 19:17 utc | 231

In response to a question put forth by @james on a past thread (on the recent stunts of the Maidan connection), about public opinion in prospective NATO newcomers Sweden and Finland:
What actually happened to Olof Palme ?!?
I don’t know, but I did meet knowledgeable folks who did state that they’re positive it was a political deed. MOA’s eminent @Norwegian said something similar, yet vague, a few weeks ago on this board.
An interesting comparison can be done with Switzerland since 1991-ish. From there on it is starting to become more and more visible that some kind of backroom deal with NATO must have been agreed upon; it is now culminating into them ending their centuries old status as a neutral country in the rat cage that europe apparently still is. Over that period of time, the legendary swiss daily Neue Zürcher Zeitung (NZZ), once famed for its unique unattached views on foreign policy matters, became gradually worthless and is now standard issue MSM bullshit fully in line with atlanticist tropes and “narratives”. It was quite sad to witness, I had been a voracious reader of newspapers since I first started to read them at 8 years old, and I loved them glowingly, until I learned how this actually is working today.
That said, hooray and glory to MOA, I’d love to have the whole bar one on me for everything that is done here. / Also, the Jukebox!

Posted by: persiflo | Dec 23 2022 19:22 utc | 232

Down By the Riverside Lyrics
I’m gonna lay down my burden, down by the riverside
Down by the riverside, down by the riverside
I’m gonna lay down my burden, down by the riverside
I’m gonna study war no more
I ain’t a gonna study war no more, I ain’t a gonna study war no more
I ain’t a gonna study war no more, I ain’t a gonna study war no more
I ain’t a gonna study war no more, I ain’t a gonna study war no more
Well, I’m gonna put on my long white robe, (Where?) down by the riverside (Oh)
Down by the riverside, down by the riverside
I’m gonna put on my long white robe, (Where?) down by the riverside
I’m gonna study war no more
I ain’t a gonna study war no more, I ain’t a gonna study war no more
I ain’t a gonna study war no more, I ain’t a gonna study war no more
I ain’t a gonna study war no more, I ain’t a gonna study war no more
Well, I’m gonna lay down my sword and shield, (Where?) down by the riverside
Down by the riverside, down by the riverside
I’m gonna lay down my sword and shield, (A-ha) down by the riverside
I’m gonna study war no more
I ain’t a gonna study war no more, I ain’t a gonna study war no more
I ain’t a gonna study war no more, I ain’t a gonna study war no more
I ain’t a gonna study war no more, I ain’t a gonna study war no more
This is the great Mahalia Jackson’s version. We could all wear long white robes – (No hoods!) Combine the march (for those who can’t go further) with a showing at each State Capitol, State of the Union Day…or just go out into the garden, sing it loud. More ecologically conscious that way…
I know. I’m a dreamer. That was one of my favorite uncles’s name for me. (Being honest: I had two of those.) Dreamer, I be…
Well, at least I’ll be singing. And maybe there’ll be snow out here at least. And, we’ve even got a river to go down beside, with Mahalia for company!

Posted by: juliania | Dec 23 2022 20:56 utc | 233

My humblest apologies – post at 234 was meant for the not ukraine thread. Please delete from here, b; I will repost, I hope, correctly!

Posted by: juliania | Dec 23 2022 21:38 utc | 234

[Senator Lindsey] Graham said the US is “in it to win it, and the only way you’re gonna win it is to break the Russian military and have somebody in Russia take Putin out

This is getting silly. Please get these amateurs away from the corridors of power or bad things happen.
Armies have plans for every occasion. These plans are thought out in peacetime and acted upon in war. It is safe to assume the US armed forces have a plan that outlines the action to take should Russia assesinate the US president. Russia likewise.

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 23 2022 22:18 utc | 235

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Dec 23 2022 13:15 utc
Excellent example of ‘playing the man’
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/YesMinister
Care to comment on the evidence, except saying, ‘I don’t like it, must be false’?
of course, that’s the moat common reasoning round these parts, but at least some like, and can, actually offer some arguments. Excepting Ozymandias Of Oregon, he does not lower himself to the level of discussion.

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Dec 23 2022 23:27 utc | 236

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 23 2022 14:06 utc | 221
thanks for the updates. appreciate them along with your sharp edged insight!

Posted by: migueljose | Dec 23 2022 23:50 utc | 237

Posted by: S | Dec 23 2022 13:24 utc | 220
“Until 2015, there was a system in the Ukraine that created order and perfectly satisfied all the minorities living there, including the Hungarian one. There was peace. No harm was done to anyone. In 2015, they went and took away their rights. More than 100 schools are being constantly discriminated against,” Orban said at a government briefing when asked about the Ukraine’s law on minorities.”
Very revealing, this supports the stories coming from Donbass where Russian language is–was– banned following the coup. Thank you S.

Posted by: migueljose | Dec 23 2022 23:54 utc | 238

Posted by: juliania | Dec 23 2022 20:56 utc | 234
“Well, at least I’ll be singing. And maybe there’ll be snow out here at least. And, we’ve even got a river to go down beside, with Mahalia for company!”
The song you mentioned– “Down by the Riverside” also reminds me of Pete Seeger, who was canceled, blacklisted and smeared during the McCarthy Red scare but he kept singing the rest of his life.
Keep singing and dreaming Juliania! The world needs you.

Posted by: migueljose | Dec 23 2022 23:59 utc | 239

@ karlof1 | Dec 23 2022 19:01 utc | 231
thanks.. i appreciate the many updates and news reports you provide karlof1… i think she is bang on and it is refreshing to see someone smack down this ongoing craziness.. she is very good at it…
@ juliania | Dec 23 2022 20:56 utc | 234
awesome song…. ditto migueljoses words to you… cheers james

Posted by: james | Dec 24 2022 2:40 utc | 240

Several of this thread’s comments discussed the Korean War as if both sides genuinely fought to win it. That wasn’t the case. The conflict was managed by the UN (which is why Truman was ordered to forbade MacArthur from operating north of the Yalu River).

Posted by: David Levin | Dec 24 2022 4:27 utc | 241

@ migueljose | Dec 23 2022 23:50 utc | 238
You are most welcome. Posting these in lieu due Down Souths absense.
@ David Levin | Dec 24 2022 4:27 utc | 242
Laughable.
&
Translated from Russian FYI, SITREP Dec23:
ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z) (Transformation (Z)) (Open/Public TG link)
Combined Theater & FEBA Situ maps here.

Chronicle of a special military operation
December 23, 2022.
There is a temporary lull along the entire front line.
The sides are exchanging fire in all areas of contact.
🔻The Starobel direction:
▪️The Russian Armed Forces destroyed an enemy DRG near Serebryansky forestry.
▪️Artillery duels are taking place along the entire contact line.
🔻Soldar direction:
▪️The Bakhmut (Artemivsk) area continues fighting in the southeastern outskirts of the city and in the area of Klescheyevka.
🔻Donetsk direction:
▪️In Marinka there is fighting near the city administration.
▪️The enemy once again shelled Donetsk, Makiivka, Gorlovka, Yasinovataya and Holmovsky, there are civilian casualties.
🔻Zaporizhzhya region
▪️The Russian Air Force conducted an air strike near Kamenskoye. At the same time, Russian artillery operated on targets in Orekhove, Charivne and Zalizne.
🔻 Southern Front: Kherson direction
▪️ The Russian Armed Forces carried out strikes on AFU targets in Kherson, Dneprovskoye, Respublikantsy, Yantarnoye and Stanislav.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 24 2022 4:45 utc | 242

Translated from Russian FYI, re ISW SITREP (Neocon Central) :

ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z) (Transformation (Z)) (Open TG link)(Three(3) referenced zoom-able ISW tactical Situ maps)
Analysis of the situation in Ukraine from our enemies
Key from the findings of the American Institute for the Study of War:
▪️Russian forces continued to conduct assault operations on the Kremenna-Svatovo line.
▪️Russian forces conducted at least two combat reconnaissance operations in northern and northeastern Ukraine.
▪️Russian forces continue to occupy defensive positions in the left-bank Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions and conduct defensive operations in southern Ukraine.
▪️Russian forces hit Ukrainian facilities in Ukraine’s rear of Kramatorsk.

&

ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z) (Transformation (Z)) (Open TG link)(Overlayed satellite image)
A report from Marinka, where fierce fighting has been going on for several days. We have just received information that AFU controls ONE last block in the village.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 24 2022 7:16 utc | 243

Stepan Bandera and Joe Biden are the heroes of this year’s nativity scene (Lviv Oblast Council, December 23, 2022 — in Ukrainian)

A Christmas nativity scene has been installed at Nahuyevychi State Historical and Cultural Reserve near the Literary Museum.
Among the traditional biblical characters, you can see figures of three Hutsuls, U.S. President Joe Biden and our national hero Stepan Bandera, whose sculpture was donated to the reserve by Ivan Mysakovych, a young sculptor and graduate of the Lviv Academy of Arts.
“Why are these two figures placed here, which seem to have nothing to do with Christmas? For that, let’s turn to the history of the emergence of shopkas in the Ukraine. Shopka is a Christmas nativity scene depicting the biblical scene of the birth of Jesus Christ. The uniqueness of Ukrainian shopkas is that each locality brings a national, regional element to them, which actually distinguishes them,” the organizers explain.
According to them, the tradition of nativity play has long been widespread in the Ukraine. Plays were first staged in a puppet theater. Then it turned into a real street theater, where the roles were not performed by dolls, but by people. Participants of the nativity scene learn their lines in advance in a religious-secular performance, change into costumes of King Herod, Cossack, Death, Devil, Angel, Shepherds and others [Three Kings, Moshko the Jew, Moshko’s wife Sura; later in the play: Gypsy, Lyakh (Pole), Moskal (Velikorussian), Jew, Peasant, Grandpa, Grandma, Father — S]. Usually the plot of a nativity play revolves around King Herod’s order to kill the babies in Bethlehem and his subsequent punishment. The religious plot of the play gradually turns into a secular one—with a mockery of human sins and social shortcomings. Real figures of the time when the nativity scene was shown were also involved.
“We must learn to show our authenticity in a modern interpretation, to imbue things with that inner strength of ours that has been distinguishing the Ukraine despite the wars and cataclysms that we have repeatedly experienced and are experiencing now,” emphasized the director of the reserve Bohdan Lazorak.

The claim that “each [Ukrainian] locality brings a national, regional element” to nativity scenes is bullshit. It’s a Western Ukrainian thing. Nobody is doing it in the rest of the Ukraine. Western Ukrainians are simply erasing the real culture of Central Ukraine and South-Eastern Ukraine, claiming it’s “a result of forced Russification” (it’s not), then replacing it with their own Western Ukrainian culture, heavily influenced by Poland.

Posted by: S | Dec 24 2022 9:53 utc | 244

@ S | Dec 24 2022 9:53 utc | 245
Western Ukrainians are simply erasing the real culture of Central Ukraine and South-Eastern Ukraine, claiming it’s “a result of forced Russification” (it’s not), then replacing it with their own Western Ukrainian culture, heavily influenced by Poland.
Yes, and that is why RF must insist on an extra SMO objective that crept up just because of what you point out.
And that extra objective is – a protection of Ukraine.
It doesn’t seem that RF is doing it now when observed from afar, but if zoomed in close enough, this is also happening and Putin hinted about it in his recent speech dedicated to his domestic public.
I think he should also make that very clear and loud to the West.

Posted by: whirlX | Dec 24 2022 11:11 utc | 245

Translated from Russian FYI:
ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z) (Transformation (Z)) (Open TG link)(Referenced zoom-able tactical Situ map)

Soledar direction.
Situation as of 12:00 on 24 December 2022
Fighting continues in and around Bakhmut. Russian troops are conducting a positional offensive, pushing through the defense of the AFU in several directions at once.
🔻The Bakhmut (Artemivsk) and Soledar sections are the most intense fighting in Opytne, Kleshcheevka, Podgorodne, as well as in the areas of Dyleevka and Razdolovka.
▪️ During the offensive, Russian assault groups established control over three platoon strongholds (POPs) and three firing positions on the southern edge of Podgorodne, two POPs in Opytne on Shkolnaya Street and several positions on the Yakovlevka-Razdolovka line.
▪️In addition, Russian units are storming Ukrainian strongholds in Kleshcheevka, Dyleevka and Druzhba, where the 28th AFU detachment is holding positions.
▪️In order to slow down the offensive, the strike units of the 3rd battalion of the 28th brigade attempted to counterattack the positions of the Russian Armed Forces near Dyleyevka.
The advancing troops were supported by army aviation helicopters and artillery crews of the 28th, 53rd and 105th battalions of the 63rd brigade, which fired indiscriminately at Bakhmut, Yakovlevka, Ozaryanovka, Kurdyumovka and Maiorsk.
The attack was repulsed. Some AFU units were withdrawn to reserve positions to restore combat readiness.
▪️ In Bakhmut, the forces of the 58th AFU infantry division equipped 28 firing positions on the southeastern outskirts of the city, with three sniper pairs operating in residential areas. Ukrainian formations are provided with ammunition, radios and thermal imaging devices.

&
Translated from Russian FYI:
ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z) (Transformation (Z)) (Open TG link)(Referenced zoom-able tactical Situ map)

Via Yu. Podolyaka. The Russian Armed Forces offensive in Donbass: Toretsk (Dzerzhinsk)
As you remember from my reviews, a few days ago, the Wagner PMC units, having crossed the Seversky Donets-Donbass channel, entrenched themselves on its western bank.
Yesterday our artillery poured fire all day long on the AFU positions north of Toretsk (Dzerzhinsk), and today infantry quickly attacked the outskirts of Druzhba and Dyleevka, and right now there is a fierce close combat with the AFU garrisons.
Obviously, during the attack on Artemovsk (Bakhmut) and taking advantage of the breakthrough of the enemy’s defense south of this city, our troops are also using this success to solve another problem – to threaten enemy units in the Dzerzhinsk (Toretskaya) mini-agglomeration (up to 50,000 people lived there before the war).
Moreover, given the recent probing of AFU positions to the south of this “mini-agglomeration” (near the village of Aleksandropil), the intention of our command may include the capture of enemy forces and cutting off at least two of its supply roads (through the villages of Pleshcheevka and Sukhaya Balka), which are already only a few kilometers from the front line. And the third road, via Shcherbinovka, will be very difficult to use after Pleshcheevka and Sukhaya Balka are taken.
And it will in fact be an operational encirclement of the AFU garrison near Toretsk.
Such an interesting picture emerges as a result of today’s offensive actions of our troops.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 24 2022 11:18 utc | 246

Is this for real?
Zelly called for war on the Donbas at his first presser after becoming president?
(Video)
https://twitter.com/ivan_8848/status/1538918939882926080

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 24 2022 12:25 utc | 247

Posted by: David Levin | Dec 24 2022 4:27 utc | 242

I’ve elaborated at “Open (Not Ukraine) Thread 2022-233”.

Posted by: David Levin | Dec 24 2022 15:24 utc | 248

Recent US actions make it clear that this will be a full fledged US vs Russia war by summer of next year. I don’t think the US will be able to do a proper mobilization before Spring. Apparently Poland has enough troops ready to go to slow down Russia until the US has a properly mobilized force.
@Woke American | Dec 22 2022 23:52 utc | 137
We can only hope no full-fledged war between two nuclear-armed countries, but doing stupid never stopped the D.C. neo-con hawks.
= = = = = = = = = = =
@ Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 22 2022 23:54 utc | 138
Can’t let you have a pass:
In reply to my post at 131 linking to Mr. Whitney’s column at UNZ.
Why Putin’s Winter Offensive Will Prompt US Entry Into the War
you wrote;
Remember how those of us who condemned Putin’s failure to crush the nazis in 2014 predicted that this would mean Russia would have to fight a major war against NATO forces in Ukranazistan? And remember how we were called “trolls” and “idiots” by geniuses like the Faker and Martyanov (not to speak of Moon Of Alabama comment forum MENSA candidates) for our trouble?
@ 149, I replied:
Well, how does one take only a pencil to a gunfight? It is not for taking notes. 
That’s like jumping in at the deep end knowing you can’t swim and have no life jacket.
Never suit up for war unless your military is fit, ready and your economy can support the costs.
Overnight December 23, 2022, I returned to UNZ and re-read some comments to said piece at link. Hmm,,,,, found this verbatim post by:
Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist says: • Website
December 22, 2022 at 11:55 pm GMT • 1.8 days ago • 100 Words   ↑
Remember how those of us who condemned Putin’s failure to crush the nazis in 2014 predicted that this would mean Russia would have to fight a major war against NATO forces in Ukranazistan? And remember how we were called “trolls” and “idiots” by geniuses like the Faker and Martyanov (not to speak of sundry online comment forum MENSA candidates) for our trouble? 
• Replies: @Ron Unz, @MarkU
Considering the time stamp, are you one and the same person OR did you do what may be inferred?
And Mr. Unz, Editor-in-Chief replied.
I disagree.
By 2022, the Ukrainian military had indeed become much stronger militarily relative to Russia. But Russia had also become much stronger strategically compared with NATO and the West.
Back in 2014, the Russian economy probably would have been devastated by the economic sanctions that have now only been a slight inconvenience. Germany and the other NATO countries were probably much less dependent upon Russian energy. Back then China might have gone along with the economic sanctions against Russia, which would have been disastrous. Russia didn’t have hypersonics, which have given it a current strategic military advantage.
[.]

Posted by: Likklemore | Dec 24 2022 18:22 utc | 249