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December 18, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-229
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NEWS-FLASH THIS MORNING ON BBC NEWS WEB-SITE:
BAE Systems has announced it is to recruit more than 2,600 new apprentices and graduates in 2023.
The majority of the roles will be based in Samlesbury and Warton in Lancashire and Barrow in Cumbria.
Opportunities are also available across the South of England and Scotland including in cyber security, software development and aerospace engineering.
It looks like BAE Systems are doing OK …. Unsurprisingly.
Posted by: Engineer-John | Dec 19 2022 11:14 utc | 201
@Engineer-John | Dec 19 2022 11:14 utc | 204
[I]BAE Systems has announced it is to recruit more than 2,600 new apprentices and graduates in 2023.[/i]
I pity the poor apprentices – they (at least in the Glasgow shipyards) were notoriously bad payers for their workforce. Worst working conditions and salary i ever encountered and run like a Gulag. It was so bad that on your first day as a time served craftsmen you were handed the family credit form to fill in if you had kids.
Posted by: Al Dossary | Dec 19 2022 11:55 utc | 202
Posted by: Steven Starr | Dec 18 2022 21:01 utc | 106
The quotes you have from that post are pretty amusing.
When Soviet Yankee class SSBN’s began patrolling off the US East Coast in the late 1960’s, it was assumed that Washington would be gone before the president was able make any decisions. When the Soviets where learned how to fire depressed trajectory SLBMs from those Yankee class SSBNs, it was assumed Washington would be gone before the president got the phone call to tell him he needed to make a decision.
US nuclear war planning has long made contingences for the lack of National Command Authority emanating from the the civilian authorities.
The flight time for for a depressed trajectory SLBM was about 3 minutes for an SLBM launch 800 kilometers offshore from Washington.
Hypersonic missiles travel slower than ICBMs. https://theconversation.com/how-hypersonic-missiles-work-and-the-unique-threats-they-pose-an-aerospace-engineer-explains-180836#:~:text=All%20of%20the%20intercontinental%20ballistic,second%20at%20their%20maximum%20velocity.
Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 19 2022 12:32 utc | 204
Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 19 2022 12:32 utc | 211
Russia is upgrading its navy standard anti-ship and anti-land cruise missiles to the Zircon hypersonic missile. Besides the surface ships, also the attack submarines will use them. Now they are also making land based Zircon launchers and missiles besides/replacing the Bastion coastal defense system. These are cruise missiles, not ballistic missiles.
USA is still using subsonic Tomahawk for land attack and Harpoon for anti ship missiles, which are also inferior in range.
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 19 2022 12:51 utc | 205
Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 18 2022 21:57 utc | 113
In the article you linked, I wonder why they described it with the word “radar”. Radio direction finding dates back a century.
Users in Ukraine have been warned since the start of the war that terminals can be located by these means.
Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 19 2022 13:21 utc | 206
As at Dec1922 AFU losses attributed by RF MOD:
📊 In total, since the beginning of the special military operation destroyed:
– 344 Aircraft,
– 184 Helicopters,
– 2,684 UAV,
– 398 Anti-Aircraft Missile Systems,
– 7159 Tanks & other Armored Combat Vehicles (IFVs,APCs, & ’50’s Junk),
– 931 MBRLS,
– 3,691 pieces of Field Artillery & Mortars,
– 7,664 units of special military motor vehicles(Trucks(buku), Tankers (POL/Water), Recovery/Repair, Tank-Transporters, Signals, Bridging, Construction, etc).
Re Hypersonics, it is not simply a matter of Mach speed:
Though they travel at immense speeds that critically shorten, may even eliminate response times for defense, & can maneuver/evade in-flight & follow dynamic trajectories as opposed to a predictable standard ICBM … can fly below the LOS/LOF detection capabilities of ground-based defense systems, hence extremely challenging to impossible to intercept from ground-based interceptors/defense systems.
Also ‘dimmer’ & far more difficult to detect from above, ie Satellites & AWACS, meaning a prediction of the actual final intended target is(A necessity re actual targeting/interception), er, given the entirety of the above characteristics, rather difficult, to say the least.
@ Orwellian Language
All OT ? Intentionally using double spaced sentences to spam/flood the thread with OT ? Ever heard of Dog-Damned paragraphs ?!
@ Arch Bungle
Still Steel
@ james
‘experienced’ may be Sean_UA re-incarnated … at the very least, is fulfilling the same tasking.
Another week another three mouthbreathing concern-trolls
Posted by: Arganthonios | Dec 19 2022 14:11 utc | 208
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 19 2022 3:05 utc | 150
Thank you sir.
Posted by: Andaréapié | Dec 19 2022 14:14 utc | 209
Strelkov’s TG today has a cut’n’paste of a LiveJournal piece by user kenigtiger. I don’t know what kenigtiger’s qualifications are to be writing the piece. My impression is he’s Donbas militia. Anyway, he paints a less than rosy picture of issues with the Russian armed forces. His major points:
– There is a shortage of artillery ammunition. This has led to tanks being used in lieu of artillery against enemy infantry positions. The tanks’ main guns are being worn out by this to the point they’ll be ineffective against enemy armour.
– The Russians don’t have an answer for shoot’n’scoot (he talks specifically about BM-21 MLRS being used against Donetsk). That leads to the Russian military throwing manpower away in assaults on the Ukrainian fortifications near Donetsk. Unable to effectively counter-battery, the political leadership pressures the military into costly assaults against the fortified Ukrainian positions. He posits that’s exactly what the Ukrainians seek to achieve with their shelling of Donetsk.
– Across the front, including Bakhmut, in the battle of attrition the Russians are “grinding” themselves down. “The Russian military has an incredible talent for turning any village with a couple of landings and a pig farm into Verdun, on which their own, not enemy, units are grinded.” The Russians are leaving themselves short of manpower to face a coming Ukrainian winter offensive. (He seems to think the Ukrainians do have the resources to mount an offensive).
– Russian command and control cannot coordinate anything above (remnants) of a battalion.
– Russian communications gear is inadequate. He talks about not having wireless communications and relying on field telephones which won’t survive the first 5 minutes of shelling.
– Many of the newly mobilized were organized into rifle regiments without heavy weapons, artillery, communications, and without command personnel. They have no combat value.
– Lack of “eyes in the air” means Russian artillery ammunition has and is being burned to ineffectually plough fields.
– Tanks are sent into theatre “bald”. (It seems that means the reactive armour packets are actually empty).
– Training of recruits is inadequate. They know squat of how to behave in real combat.
Posted by: Mike314159 | Dec 19 2022 14:23 utc | 210
@Arch Bungle 165
The problem with what you wrote about what is “slow” is that you build a case that Russia’s progress has been blazingly fast because it has been steady progression, i.e., linear, but that is not the case. Two steps forward then three steps back then two steps forward is not a linear progression. You can’t argue that they have progressed at a linear pace thus you can’t confidently say where they will be after 10 months, 12 months, 16 months, etc. They have not established steady progress.
Also, “slow” or “fast” is perceived in relation to the expectations of potential opponents. There is nothing about Russia’s progress that would lead any potential opponents to say their progress has been fast. To the contrary, the general view is that their progress has fallen far below expectations, leading to the conclusion that they are far weaker than previously thought, thus vulnerable. This has embolden their opponents and made their situation far riskier. What you wrote is given below.
You wrote:
“I do not respect their perception of “slow”.
For me, to consume 20% of the land of a modern military state (backed by the ‘might’ of NATO ) in 10 months is blindingly fast.
This means in 20 months, almost 50% of Ukraine will be under Russian control.
This means in 30 months, almost 60% of Ukraine will be under Russian control.”
Posted by: OdessaConnected | Dec 19 2022 14:51 utc | 211
Mike314159 : But nobody listens to Strelkov, you know, because he has been declared a traitor on RT. Its all going to plan, hoorah! /sarcasm
Posted by: Fnord73 | Dec 19 2022 15:15 utc | 212
I am shocked with Strelkov’s words above.Cant Russia buy ammunition in China or N. Korea?
Is it possible that Stavka is so ambivalent?
Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 19 2022 15:18 utc | 213
Re: Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 18 2022 16:33 utc | 36
You can’t understand the old axiom “The Enemy of my Enemy is My Friend”?
That’s surprising – you should really do some reading up of history mate – your knowledge of history is clearly sorely laki
Posted by: Julian | Dec 19 2022 15:28 utc | 214
@unimperator | Dec 19 2022 10:39 utc | 196
I was only laughing at some people or taxi drivers, like Marty from Amerika, who were happy to announce that Starlink over Ukr was taken offline by Russia when Ukr started to complain internet doesn’t work anymore, about a month ago. They even posted pillar lights photos as some sort of Russian HAARP!
No one jammed anything, Musk stopped the internet to ask for money from Pentagon, but they threatened with an audit and Elon quickly resumed free services.
There are so many thousands of terminals in Ukr, gifted by Elon, that a radar won’t be useful, every tiny village has one. But for Iran such a radar would be very useful to find sponsored terrorists.
Posted by: rk | Dec 19 2022 15:28 utc | 215
Something occurs to me, and lucky you guys are my audience.
Zelensky says liberation is already in the minds of Crimeans. How silly some say.
But I don’t think it is. He’s saying out loud he has agents in there spreading propoganda or worse. Military observers for strikes be my guess. Russias police should really use that clue to question the usual suspects- start with tartars and ethnic Ukrainians.
Papers please!
See how this works? The Ukrainians talk too much they say stuff that should be hidden. Use it.
Just like posting pics of planes at the nuke base before droning it. Bragging about Kherson offensives, and melitopal. Now they’re talking about blocking attacks from Belarus…so they’ve got traps setup there already. Theres so many lies, the occasional truths need to be taken seriously. It does happen.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 19 2022 15:33 utc | 216
Here in the US, we know we’re being lied to, but no one knows the truth. Combine that with the Peter Principal, hubris, greed, and not a little evil from our so called leaders, and here we are.
Posted by: Immaculate deception | Dec 19 2022 15:33 utc | 217
I have noticed a lot fewer people touting the “expertise” of Martynov and the like lately, which is progress I guess.
Reality is finally filtering through to a few people here…
Posted by: moaobserver | Dec 19 2022 15:33 utc | 218
Rybar:
Nevertheless, the command of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation still avoids attacks on larger and more important energy infrastructure facilities, including 750 kV substations, OPUS and machine halls (with rare exceptions) of 330 kV substations and CHP boilers.
Such tactics, without changes and innovations, still allows Ukrainian engineers to restore power supply every time.
I do not understand this.
Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 19 2022 15:40 utc | 219
Newsflash – Ghost of Kiev returns
https://www.merkur.de/politik/ukraine-krieg-kampf-pilot-vadym-voroshylov-selfie-instagram-russland-fra-91984387.html
Posted by: Exile | Dec 19 2022 15:41 utc | 220
I do not understand this.
Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 19 2022 15:40 utc | 219
Easy: Abramovich, or someone else like him, said “no”
Posted by: rk | Dec 19 2022 15:51 utc | 221
@ Outraged | Dec 19 2022 14:09 utc | 207
thanks… 2+2= 4 basically.. same equation either way!
Posted by: james | Dec 19 2022 15:53 utc | 222
indian punchline from today….
Why time isn’t ripe for Ukraine talks
Posted by: james | Dec 19 2022 15:54 utc | 223
Posted by: Exile | Dec 19 2022 12:14 utc | 203
Happy Feast of St. Nicholas today !
Thank you, Exile! OT, but Saint Nicholas looks after sailors at sea, so that is appropriate for all in Ukraine who travel the oceans and rivers in bad weather- even for those who don’t. And even for those who basely changed the names of some of the cities dedicated to him there.
Happy Saint Nicholas Day to all!
Posted by: juliania | Dec 19 2022 16:00 utc | 224
It’s hard to be patient if you are rooting for Russia, or at least against the Ukronazis. At the start of the SMO I figured Russia could destroy Ukraine in the first week.
But war is slow, especially this one. If you want to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine, you must destroy the military, then hunt down the Nazis who brought this about. That will require time, as well as control of some territories that it will eventually leave behind. While the reports we get now are missile strikes and minor adjustments to the front lines, the real damage to Ukraine is in the trenches where troops are freezing to death and in the towns and cities to the west where people, between power outages, are making plans to head to the borders.
It will be interesting to see how the morale of the average Ukrainian turns in such a situation.
Posted by: Bob In Portland, Ore | Dec 19 2022 16:25 utc | 225
Posted by: moaobserver | Dec 19 2022 15:33 utc | 218
Thanks for the reminder I was busy yesterday and didn’t get to read his blog!
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Dec 19 2022 16:36 utc | 226
Posted by: Bob In Portland, Ore | Dec 19 2022 16:25 utc | 226
Yes, you have a point. To achieve Russias security objectives, they need to eradicate the power structures in Ukraine that were endagering Russia’s security. This is tough to do and may indeed take a long time.
Posted by: alek_a | Dec 19 2022 16:38 utc | 227
Posted by: Mike314159 | Dec 19 2022 14:23 utc | 210
I call load of bullshit. This is the usual disgruntled military griping one hears in every war. Some of it may be true, almost always most of it is BS and is either irrelevant to the outcome or dealt with as part of the planning. And Strelkov is definitely a disgruntled failure.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 19 2022 16:45 utc | 228
This week there’s no al-Mayadeen “prequel” to Crooke’s Strategic Culture essay, “Managing the Ukraine Denial Narrative”, which IMO deserves a thread all its own. Within the essay’s body, Crooke explores “The mental unity of crowds” which then leads to “The Fear programme, now an accepted part of the armoury of democratic politics” both of which IMO grow out of the rapidly growing sense of anomie I’ve warned about over the years:
The primary condition was for there to be a segment of population lacking community bonds or meaning in their lives, and being further afflicted by ‘free-floating anxiety and discontent’, which leans towards aggressivity (i.e. by generalised feelings that ‘the system’ and economy are ‘rigged’ unfairly, against them).
Essentially then, mass movements attract people because they seem to offer hope to forlorn and dysfunctional beings.
Into this mental state, a narrative can be ‘dissolved’, suggesting a particular cause to the free-floating anxiety – and a means to deal with it (i.e. such as ‘Russia threatens our global advantage, our identity and values, and were it to be destroyed, the old system and values will right itself’).
Crooke is clearly onto the utilization of this somewhat new set of tools for societal control that were first managed by Hitler’s Nazis, but then we must recall who it was that managed Hitler at his outset.
Do read it closely, carefully. Those Crooke cites are very credible and many will have absorbed their conversations. The short look b made into the interviews by The Economist show they and the Financial Times item (which is behind a paywall) are acting as messengers but to a far slimer population segment than the entire Golden Billion.
It’s morning and the trolls have taken over again… The blog is becoming unusable…
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 19 2022 16:49 utc | 230
Germany will take the leading role in NATO’s super quick reaction force VJTF on january, 1st. Earmarked have been 42 of the new Puma-APCs. Some days ago a drill with 18 pumas took place, in which every single of them went to bust. Now they’ll deploy the old Marder-APC from the 1970th instead. The “Puma”, jointly manufactured by the Krauss-Maffei Wegmann and Rheinmetall arms companies, had caused the troops grief from the outset, which not only led to constantly rising costs and delays, but also earned the model the reputation of the “breakdown tank”. In the briefing for parliament by the Ministry of Defense, there was talk of problems with hardware and software, and of a “high degree of damage of various kinds”. Plainly spoken it’s a scrap heap.
Posted by: Moses | Dec 19 2022 16:50 utc | 231
reply to 214
Poland and Ukraine are “friends”? Seriously? Poland wants to prosecute people fighting for Ukraine. They seem to be making preparations to take over parts of Ukraine and have a long bloody history of enmity.
Poland isn’t a ‘friend”. They’re more like the next opponent up in a tag team match against a wrestler that is nearly beaten.
Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 19 2022 16:58 utc | 232
This is an interesting article on how Ukrainians in Europe are receiving awards just because they are Ukrainian, and a high ranking Ukrainian general in an interview with the Economist magazine, calls for the killing of Russians, “Just kill” he adds.
It also looks like Zelensky will be named Person of the Year, Zelensky is also furious at FIFA bosses for not allowing him to address the world before the final, and that action could be taken against them.
https://ria.ru/20221219/ukraina-1839565958.html
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 19 2022 16:59 utc | 233
Today’s meeting in Minsk between the Russian and Belarusian governments and leaders will focus on socio-political matters, not security as many imagined as Lukashenko describes:
“And we are it was agreed with him in the middle of this year that at the end of this year, in December, we will meet and discuss the main socio-economic issues that exist today in our Relationship. Therefore, today I propose to work productively on strategic directions that can determine the near future of Belarus and Russia.”
Perhaps more will be added to the transcript than the opening remarks by the two presidents.
Such tactics, without changes and innovations, still allows Ukrainian engineers to restore power supply every time.
I do not understand this.
Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 19 2022 15:40 utc | 219
Compare this view of night-time Europe from before the SMO began
https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.gov/?v=-7.0911091243735065,35.4961887936892,41.744379169608294,58.73119845856023&l=Reference_Labels_15m,Reference_Features_15m,Coastlines_15m(hidden),VIIRS_SNPP_DayNightBand_At_Sensor_Radiance,VIIRS_SNPP_DayNightBand_AtSensor_M15(hidden),VIIRS_SNPP_CorrectedReflectance_TrueColor(hidden)&lg=true&t=2021-12-01-T02%3A37%3A27Z
With this view taken on 29th Nov 2022
https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.gov/?v=-7.0911091243735065,35.4961887936892,41.744379169608294,58.73119845856023&l=Reference_Labels_15m,Reference_Features_15m,Coastlines_15m(hidden),VIIRS_SNPP_DayNightBand_At_Sensor_Radiance,VIIRS_SNPP_DayNightBand_AtSensor_M15(hidden),VIIRS_SNPP_CorrectedReflectance_TrueColor(hidden)&lg=true&t=2022-11-29-T02%3A37%3A27Z
How much power has been restored in Ukraine?
Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 19 2022 17:05 utc | 235
From RT:
Four US-made AGM-88 HARM aircraft-fired anti-radar missiles have been shot down over Russia’s Belgorod Region, which shares a border with Ukraine, the Russian Defense Ministry reported on Monday.
They really want a big war.
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 19 2022 17:07 utc | 236
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 19 2022 16:43 utc | 230
Spotted immediately!
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 19 2022 17:08 utc | 237
@237 Cont’d–
Lavrov met his Belarusian counterpart Sergey Aleinik in Minsk and according to this media rollout discussed the following:
“During the conversation, topical issues of bilateral relations, interaction within the framework of the Union State and other Eurasian associations were considered. Particular attention was paid to the task of diplomatic support for the implementation of the Union programs of economic integration of the two countries, cooperation in the CIS, the upcoming chairmanship of Russia in the EAEU and the Belarusian chairmanship in the CSTO.
“An exchange of views took place on international and regional issues, the situation around the Ukrainian crisis. The focus on coordinating steps at international venues, countering political and illegal sanctions pressure on Russia and Belarus by unfriendly states was confirmed.”
So, economic issues predominated their discussions too. Finally agreeing to the Union State arrangement is becoming a boon for Belarus and clearly saved Lukashenko politically.
Posted by: Pseudo-Norwegian | Dec 19 2022 16:29 utc | 227
(Sorry, I can’t resist)
Actually, within the last few months Russia has lost about half of what they gained at the start of the war
By *your* “cack handed” analysis Russia once controlled 40% of Ukraine, which is clearly a crock (as are you).
Now, begone troll!
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 19 2022 17:14 utc | 239
As regards power supply, ukraine counts as reconnected when they switch customers from unplanned emergency outages to planned outages.
Zelensky has said they have a 50 percent deficit and that’s with most industry shut down and millions of people missing. Restored connections take the form of local diesel powered generators which isn’t sustainable long term.
A fact based non-narrative analysis shows the electrical strikes are effective. The lack of news from the front indicates poor connectivity as well.
Updated Russian weapon systems are coming online as well. Whatever putins interference in the war, other actors and power centers in the RF are still working towards victory.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 19 2022 17:19 utc | 240
karlof1 | Dec 19 2022 16:47 utc | 232
Particularly creepy is the scary part towards the end…
But perhaps most disquieting, Eric Hoffer found another kind of individual who is attracted to mass movements– in fact, whose participation is often necessary for such movements to thrive. “What Eric Hoffer found, and what has often been overlooked by many sociologists and certainly by the general public, is that mass movements attract what we now call the psychopathic personality – in essence predators: individuals who are content in causing great harm, who perhaps are even sadistic, and yet aren’t bothered in the least by what they do”
Posted by: john | Dec 19 2022 17:33 utc | 241
@ Mike314159 | Dec 19 2022 14:23 utc | 210
BS. Same old endless BS from MEMRI, StrategyPage, ISW, TopWar, BBC, Infographics, CNN, et al.
An unedited sample & accurate translation of the quality & depth, incisive insight, of your ‘KenigsTiger’s ‘Analysis’ rantings:
“And everyone is silent about it again, and then, when the cities and regions surrender again, everyone is like, “Oh, how is this possible?!? Oh, we hoped so much for Surovikin! He’s so tough and brutal! Why couldn’t he?!?” And Surovikin will be fucked up himself, because no matter how fucking motivated you are, you are powerless to do anything if you have an army of dickheads in your command, where the gaps in dickheadism start somewhere at the level of lieutenant colonels and go down, not up.
I’ll say it again so you can fucking digest it.
This level of military incompetence simply does not exist. There is a huge, massive betrayal going on, systematic preparations for an utterly infernal massacre during the next Ukrainian offensive. The Russian army is left with no chance of success by its commanders.
And the faggots among the “experts” and war correspondents who cover and glorify all this, sucking the “positifik” out of it, bear their share of responsibility for all the future fuck-ups.”
Norwegian (aka mr. Nistad): They are loosing, in leaps and bounds. For sure, you always have the suicide bomber option of nukes, but except for that, so sorry. Tanks having to function as artillery? Grinding in Bakhmut with a Blackwater PMC as pointguard? Not exactly impressive. Strelkov is right.
Posted by: Fnord73 | Dec 19 2022 17:34 utc | 243
its been revealed that the disuntied kingdom’s government that’s sending its Brimstone II missile system to Ukraine, that each missile costs $212,000 dollars, or £175,000 pounds.
There is widespread poverty in Britain with the cost of fuel leaving many folk unable to heat their owns homes, whilst inflation is at a high, and the price of everything is on the rise, foodbanks are so busy that they are running out of food donations, and all manner of public service workers are on strike or about to go on strike yet the Westminster government can waste huge amounts of taxpayers cash on sending missiles to a neo-Nazi ran regime.
Its not just the disunited kingdom that’s sacrificing the living standards of its own citizens to supply a neo-Nazi ran regime in UKraine, no its most of Europe as well, and all to benefit the US warhawks and arms manufacturers.
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2022/12/18/694723/Britain-Ukraine-missiles-Brimstone-2-Russia
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 19 2022 17:35 utc | 244
@239 “Four US-made AGM-88 HARM aircraft-fired anti-radar missiles have been shot down over Russia’s Belgorod Region, which shares a border with Ukraine, the Russian Defense Ministry reported on Monday.”
Most likely a test to see if it works. Sounds like it didn’t.
Posted by: dh | Dec 19 2022 17:37 utc | 245
@Fnord73 | Dec 19 2022 17:34 utc | 246
You are not addressing me. Don’t play games.
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 19 2022 17:37 utc | 246
Aid to less fortunate countries from the EU has virtually dried up as the billions of Euros are redirected towards Ukraine, this is on top of the billions given to the neo-Nazi regime in weapons.
So in reality its not just the citizens of most European nations that are suffering due to their governments putting the neo-Nazi regime in Ukraine’s interests ahead of their own citizens, no the less fortunate nations that have little wealth are suffering greatly due to European nations determination to keep using European taxpayers cash to fund the odious neo-Nazi regime in Ukraine by diverting aid that they usually send to them to the Ukrainian regime instead.
Effectively European governments by continuing to fund this awful regime in Ukraine are greatly increasing the likelihood of many, many folk people including women and children (always the first to suffer) of dying in Third World countries because they diverted the majority of the aid to the neo-Nazi regime in Ukraine.
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2022/12/19/694739/EU-aid-for-Ukraine-at-the-expense-of-millions-of-others-in-dire-need-of-aid
The actions of the EU and its other Europeans bodies such as the OSCE AEIA and the OPCW since the conflict began in Ukraine, has really opened my eyes, and now I see the EU and the other official bodies including the UN in a not so flattering light, their mask of parity has slipped and what lies beneath is not so nice.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 19 2022 17:48 utc | 247
Do read it closely, carefully. Those Crooke cites are very credible and many will have absorbed their conversations. The short look b made into the interviews by The Economist show they and the Financial Times item (which is behind a paywall) are acting as messengers but to a far slimer population segment than the entire Golden Billion.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 19 2022 16:47 utc | 231
Again, not written in his usual writing style and format. It would be nice if whoever does the research and first drafts for him was credited.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 19 2022 19:36 utc | 248
https://time.com/person-of-the-year-2022-volodymyr-zelensky/
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/socialists-condemn-bundestag-vote-label-soviet-famine-1930s-genocide-against-ukraine
Posted by: david jacobsen | Dec 19 2022 21:14 utc | 249
Posted by: Tim | Dec 18 2022 15:05 utc | 22
It is a propagated misconception that banks create money “out of thin air” and thus cause the woes of the western world.
The reality is that banks don’t lend money but deal in securities (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC0G7pY4wRE&t=118s ) and the securities most transacted are those sourced from the people who are ignorant of this fact.
The end result is that the people, through their ignorance, are bonded and so suffer a form of slavery.
Russia is setting up a finance system where the ‘value’ of the currency is backed by natural resources other than the people, and it may well for this reason that NATO is at war with Russia.
Posted by: peterbro | Dec 19 2022 22:03 utc | 250
There. Just finished. I think about 2 hours this morning just to read through over 200 posts on MoA.
Slow business and often frustrating and even annoying. As with any popular forums on the web. I think if possible at all MoA could use a change of software. Or perhaps amendment to this. I suppose not possible, either of them, but I just thought it worth mooting the idea.
We have to wade through too much mud. Have to go back searching for the post number to see what is being talked about. Have to plod blindly forward to see if anything gets responded to…
There are better ways. I use a digital photography forum which has such a better way.
Can I put it before the barflies for their consideration?
dpreview uses allows following individual post/reply/response and even changing of the mode within which you read.
See for yourself: https://www.dpreview.com/forums
Even the phpBB forum style is a bit better, I think.
Posted by: Tim | Dec 18 2022 15:05 utc | 22
It is a propagated misconception that banks create money “out of thin air” and thus cause the woes of the western world.
The reality is that banks don’t lend money but deal in securities (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC0G7pY4wRE&t=118s ) and the securities most transacted are those sourced from the people who are ignorant of this fact.
The end result is that the people, through their ignorance, are bonded and so suffer a form of slavery.
Russia is setting up a finance system where the ‘value’ of the currency is backed by natural resources other than the people, and it may well for this reason that NATO is at war with Russia.
Posted by: peterbro | Dec 19 2022 22:43 utc | 252
@ abrogard | Dec 19 2022 22:09 utc | 252 who seems to value style over content
I suggest you contribute $50K to Bernhard and send your suggestion on how you want your contribution spent in a note….otherwise STFU!
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 19 2022 22:50 utc | 253
The question is can a submarine launched ballistic missile (SLBM) hit Washington DC in 30 seconds?
Facts: DC is approx 150 miles from the nearest coast
Assumption: US navy wouldn’t allow Russian submarine approach closer than 20 miles offshore
Assumption: SLBM has top speed of 10,000 mph (~3 miles/second)
Simple arithmetic says with a distance of nearly 180 miles at nearly 3 miles a second, the SLBM will take about 60 seconds.
I have no idea if that difference is enough that missile defence systems can respond effectively to an SLBM in a 60-second window, as opposed to the hypothetical 30-second missile.
Posted by: FrankDrakman | Dec 19 2022 23:54 utc | 254
Let’s get it straight: I am pro Russia, pro Russian Ukrainian, pro, in fact all Ukrainians, all Russians, all people everywhere. Something like that.
Now we’ve got a narrative going that Russia is inexorably winning this war and it will come to the speedier end because of that. Good. That’s what I’d like to see.
But I’d hate to think I’m as much a fool for my ‘own side’s’ propaganda as those dupes on the other side. So I search for some real truth.
How does this fit with our prevailing narrative, then? Our forecasts of massive assaults sweeping all before them and such… ?
Found it on a ‘pro-Ukrainian’ site, for sure. Meaning ‘anti-Ukrainians’ but ‘pro-Kieve regime and USA etc’ And meaning ‘anti-Russian’.
sure. But that doesn’t mean there’s anything inaccurate about it.
And I’d say it is very, very significant if accurate:
https://en.zona.media/article/2022/11/23/pavlivka
@ abrogard | Dec 20 2022 1:25 utc | 256
Outright OUN-Nazi BS propaganda & you insincerely disingenuously promote it. Troll.
Tanks are used to attack up close, artillery is many miles from the front. If the ukies are being hit with tank ” artillery” they are in serious trouble.
Crossing farmland is expensive in both machinery and human lives, blasting a stronghold where the enemy is hiding costs mostly shells. Suggestions that the Russians should be out im mud fields and trenches instead of using paved roads can’t be taken seriously.
Posted by: OohCanada | Dec 20 2022 3:29 utc | 257
@ OohCanada | Dec 20 2022 3:29 utc | 258
Wrong, troll … subsidiary sock ?
Tanks, especially MBTs are quite capable of being used in an indirect artillery role. It is a secondary function. In fact, with real-time drone ISR can artillery precision ‘snipe’ one round at a time or as formations even barrage accurately up to ~12-18kms away. A 125mm smoothbore tank main gun, is also a 5 Inch artillery piece(Cannon).
See: WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War, etc
All over the Donbass tanks are attacking cities and trenches. The Russians front lines are up against the Natsee bunkers and they are using tanks to attack them.
The nonsensical “no artillery” or “no Radios” is stupidity. Same goes for those who pretend Russia is too stupid to drone. They are built around artillery and the artillery is geared towards drones.
Nato has decided to change up how they fight and mostly its just coppy the Russians
Posted by: OohCanada | Dec 20 2022 5:10 utc | 259
@ OohCanada | Dec 20 2022 5:10 utc | 260
Apologies re, invalid inference … the trolls have been collectively persistently pushing hard for days now using manufactured propaganda, fabricated ‘on the ground’ BS, that RF is so decrepit, out of artillery shells, now using MBTs as substitute artillery in desperation, with no comms or C3 either …
Safe to assume every failing they attribute to RF is drawn from the factual re AFUs status, IMV.
@ abrogard | Dec 19 2022 22:09 utc | 252 who seems to value style over content
I suggest you contribute $50K to Bernhard and send your suggestion on how you want your contribution spent in a note….otherwise STFU!
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 19 2022 22:50 utc | 254
Mealtimes must be lovely in your home.
I would suggest a course on English comprehension in order to remedy your obvious deficiencies.
But probably more important to do a course on general civility first.
There is a directive on these forums regarding the nature of posts and it would be to your advantage to peruse it – but then again, perhaps you’d better wait for the Comprehension course first.
For me you come from the ‘ad hominem stable’ and I have nothing to say to such animals and never did, they may take any post of mine as being by default excepting them, not for them to see. ‘Cast not your pearls…’ that sort of thing.
I will go wash my hands.
@ abrogard | Dec 20 2022 6:58 utc | 261
You would not recognize ‘civility’ even if it was embossed on a brick that struck you full force in the face. Your faux indignation is exceedingly hard to stomach given you repeatedly vomit up reference links to the worst of OUN-Nazis vile propaganda, as a personal recommendation, re your suggested ‘balance’ pertaining to ‘perspective’, including the collected bi-weekly video addresses of the Nazi psychopath, Arestovich. Scum.
One can but only concur with psychohistorian:
I suggest you contribute $50K to Bernhard and send your suggestion on how you want your contribution spent in a note….otherwise STFU!
Troll.
Posted by: moaobserver | Dec 19 2022 16:18 utc | 225
“There have been a few satellites launched since then but in case people are wondering why Russian artillery is busy “ploughing fields”… ”
strange conclusion:
typical case of mixing of non-related facts
satellites are used to track down targets and determining coordinates BUT coordinates do not care about features of guns
“ploughing fields” can be traced back to CEP
the effect is even reinforcing when the center von the CEP don’t match the coordinates then the CEP ins wandering around the coordinates
i can’t find CEP-dates for russian / ukrainian 152 mm shells , so ( because usa is better in all categories 🙂 )we must use the specifications of us-shells:
– The M795 155mm projectile is the US Army and US Marine Corps’ standard 155mm High Explosive (HE) projectile for howitzers.
M795:
CEP 139 meters at maximum range (Range 28.7–37 km) with 39-caliber barrel[3]
M549:
CEP 259 meters at max range (M198: 30.1 km) with 39 calibar barrel
even more astonishing :
The Circular Error Probable (CEP) indicates the radius of a circle in which 50 percent of all measured values lie, given a circular normal distribution. The CEP serves as a measure of the accuracy of a system.
That means for the M549 shell:
worst case = ca. 500 m between 2 impacts of the best 50 % of all impacts
Posted by: ghiwen | Dec 20 2022 11:55 utc | 263
Posted by: ghiwen | Dec 20 2022 11:55 utc | 263
Is anyone suggesting enemy formations are destroyed by being touched by an incoming shell as opposed to blast waves or fragmentation components ?
I fail to see why significant accuracy is required when these things are bracketed and create blast waves.
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Dec 20 2022 12:20 utc | 264
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Dec 20 2022 12:20 utc | 264
ooooh no;
please;
maybe you check the reference post
Posted by: ghiwen | Dec 20 2022 12:33 utc | 265
⚡️Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine
(20 December 2022)
Russian Federation Armed Forces continue the special military operation.
◽️In Kupyansk direction, as a result of air and artillery strikes on the AFU up to 30 Ukrainian servicemen and 3 motor vehicles have been eliminated near Kislovka (Kharkov region).
◽️In Krasniy-Liman direction, the concentration of enemy’s manpower and military equipment has been hit near Nevskoye (Donetsk People’s Republic). 3 AFU sabotage and reconnaissance groups have been eliminated near Chervonaya Dibrova and Stelmakhovka (Lugansk People’s Republic). The enemy’s losses in this direction amounted up to 50 Ukrainian servicemen, 2 armoured fighting vehicles and 3 pickup trucks.
◽️In Donetsk direction, Russian troops continue their offensive. As a result of a complex shelling of the AFU’s positions, more than 100 Ukrainian servicemen, 4 infantry fighting vehicles and 2 motor vehicles have been eliminated near Ivano-Daryevka, Bakhmutskoye and Orlovka (Donetsk People’s Republic).
◽️In South Donetsk direction, provisional bases of the units of the AFU 61st and 72nd mechanised brigades have been destroyed by Russian artillery fire near Konstantinovka and Zolotaya Niva (Donetsk People’s Republic). In addition, 1 AFU sabotage and reconnaissance group has been destroyed near Novodonetskoye (Donetsk People’s Republic). Total enemy losses in this direction amounted to 70 Ukrainian servicemen killed and wounded, 3 armoured fighting vehicles and 2 pickup trucks.
💥Operational and Tactical Aviation, Missile Troops and artillery of groups of troops (forces) of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have neutralised an AFU munition depot near Nevskoye (Lugansk People’s Republic), 64 artillery units at firing positions, as well as manpower and military equipment in 143 areas.
◽️2 radar stations of Ukrainian S-300 air defence systems deployed from central Ukraine have been found and destroyed near Ukrainka (Donetsk People’s Republic). 1 U.S.-manufactured AN/TPQ-36 counterbattery warfare radar has been destroyed near Konstantinovka (Donetsk People’s Republic).
💥2 AFU MiG-29 aircraft have been shot down by the Russian Air Force’s fighter aircraft near Stepanovka and Belozyorskoye (Donetsk People’s Republic). 1 AFU Mi-8 helicopter has been shot down near Timopheyevka (Donetsk People’s Republic). Russian anti-aircraft defence forces have shot down 1 AFU Su-25 aircraft near Ugledar (Donetsk People’s Republic).
💥1 Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopter has been shot down near Severnoye (Donetsk People’s Republic). In addition, 5 unmanned aerial vehicles have been destroyed near Rudovo (Lugansk People’s Republic), Volnovakha and Novoandreyevka (Donetsk People’s Republic) and Velikiye Kopani (Kherson region).
📊In total, 347 airplanes and 186 helicopters, 2,689 unmanned aerial vehicles, 398 air defence missile systems, 7,168 tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles, 931 fighting vehicles equipped with MLRS, 3,693 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 7,674 units of special military hardware have been destroyed during the special military operation.
#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #report
@mod_russia_en
Posted by: summary | Dec 20 2022 12:46 utc | 266
Footage of AIM-120 missile, used by NASAMs, which fell onto a Kiev residential building:
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/14587
A train in Belarus, with what looks like anywhere between 30-40 T-80 tanks and lots of trucks.
https://t.me/azmilitary11/31358
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 20 2022 13:09 utc | 267
Ho ho ho! NATO is locked & loaded, ready to fight, tonight:
Only 1 in 3 of German military’s self-propelled howitzers 2000 operational: Ministry
Following debacle with German Army’s Puma infantry fighting vehicle, another artillery piece is now causing headaches for the German military.
Citing a confidential Defense Ministry paper, daily Bild reported that the Bundeswehr can currently deploy only about one in three of these howitzers.
According to Bild, the military has 105 of the howitzers as of Dec. 2, but only 73 of them are currently in the army’s “available inventory,” and their operational readiness is “around 50%.” This leaves only 36 operational howitzers. (~38% readiness)
In addition, on Dec. 2, a total of 18 self-propelled howitzer 2000s were in “factory maintenance at the industry,” Bild reported from the ministry document. According to the report, it is unclear how many of the 36 operational weapon systems are among them. (Possibly as low as ~18% readiness ?)
…
Oh no how will i survive without credibility from Doug the anonymous guy on internet? Im totally going to 180 and join the circlejerk to be part of the Kremlin boys. Anyway im done for the day, Kiev doesnt pay me enough to keep refreshing all day. But ill be back tomorrow honey, i promise.
Link to Wikileaks → Link to Wikileaks