Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 16, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-227

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on December 16, 2022 at 16:04 UTC | Permalink

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Croatian parliament rejected the training of Ukronazi troops, in other news AFU intercepted 60 of 76 rockets today and half of the country is in the dark. :D

Posted by: Jzo | Dec 16 2022 16:12 utc | 1

@ down south...

thanks for your posts on the topic of ukraine and etc..

Posted by: james | Dec 16 2022 16:19 utc | 2

@ Jzo | Dec 16 2022 16:12 utc | 1

sounds like you are probably right about half of the country in the dark at the moment... this is unsustainable for the ukrainian folks..

Intel Slava Z
🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡Russia fired 72 missiles at Ukraine in an hour

Damaged energy facilities in the east and south of the country - Minister of Energy of Ukraine Galushchenko.

About 15 missile strikes in Zaporizhzhia region, - Starukh, head of the OVA.

Posted by: james | Dec 16 2022 16:28 utc | 3

"Intel Slava Z
🇷🇺🇺🇦 Kirovograd region of Ukraine is completely de-energized"

interesting tidbit connected to this region that i stumbled onto..

wikipedia link so take it fwiw..

Remember about the Gas – Do not buy Russian goods!

Posted by: james | Dec 16 2022 16:35 utc | 4

Despair live on French television LCI.
Yesterday it was enthusiasm, the Patriots were on their way. The Ukraine offensive for tomorrow...
But finally they discover that it is a heavy and very expendive system, ineffective for drones and Kh- type missiles, not to mention the Hypersonic.

It needs a group of 90 well-trained people per system and therefore the training in Germany of 5000 Ukrainian operators will be necessary and will take 6 months at least.

"Le soufflé est retombé"

Posted by: La Bastille | Dec 16 2022 16:36 utc | 5

This is one of the better things I read today, hits the nail on the head:

Ukrainian pro-Russian channels started calling Zelensky a "kapo" - a prisoner in a Nazi camp who was assigned by the SS guards to supervise forced labor or carry out administrative tasks. They also claim he is being called like that in Israel, it is the worst insult a Jew can give another Jew.

https://t.me/denatofication/4578

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 16 2022 16:39 utc | 6

There are a lot of people here in the US that manage to be hoodwinked by the relentless fake news media about all of this. That's one thing. It's entirely another thing to *want* the fake things they see to be true.

That really bothers me.

Posted by: chunga | Dec 16 2022 16:45 utc | 7

Reopen NS2!

For the European Union it will already be complicated to finish the winter at the speed it is emptying the gas reserves.

France has a huge electricity deficit because 30% of its nuclear power plants are out of service. It supplies gas to Germany to run power plants there and import in return the missing electricity.

As a result, electricity is now a rare and expensive product in Germany, more than 0,50 €/kWh!
And the price of gas has been multiplied by 3 to 0,20 €/kWh.
***
UGS Withdrawal just for Germany and France.
12.12.2022: Ge: 1291 Gwh, Fr: 1050 Gwh
12.12.2022: Ge: 2571 Gwh, Fr: 1200 Gwh
13.12.2022: Ge: 2793 GWh, Fr: 1307 Gwh
14.12.2022: Ge: 2506 Gwh, Fr: 937 Gwh

Italy and The Netherlands using 2 more TWh/day
https://gas.kyos.com/gas/de

4 days: 13,5 Twh Withdrawal,
remaining Ge 222 Twh+ Fr: 115 Twh 337Twh
Last month: Ge: 245 Twh +Fr: 133
378Twh - 337Twh= 41Twh / 1 month

But now, Winter is coming, Industries are closing but Withdrawal is 100 Twh per month.

Winter has not officially started and a small cold snap of 5 days is endangering the energy production.

And next April, we will have to find gas at 200 or 2000€ per Mwh.
Total cost 200,300, 500 billions or more to refuel.

Ukraine will probably be able to wait..

Posted by: La Bastille | Dec 16 2022 16:45 utc | 8

How many barflies can clearly see the contradiction in the following statement:

"Pentagon Claims US Not Seeking Conflict With Russia, Focused on Providing Help to Ukraine"

That's the headline of this Sputnik article that opens thusly:

"The United States is not at war with Russia and does not plan to involve in direct conflict, it just focuses on providing further security assistance to Ukraine, Pentagon Press Secretary Pat Ryder said."

Since 2014, Ukraine's been waging war on parts of its nation that didn't accept the 2014 NATO Coup that ushered in the Nazi government that has since made it clear its genocidal intentions towards Russians living within traditional Russian areas of the artificial nation of Ukraine. The words "help" and security assistance" are clearly euphemisms for NATO's direct involvement in the war against Russian nationals and Russia itself. The reality of the last eight years proves all that beyond doubt. So, why does the Outlaw US Empire insist on continuing to lie about what it's doing when it's so obvious to those actually watching? Is it solely for domestic consumption by a populace who in recent polling focused over 50% of its responses on the lack of credible governance by the federal government with not even 1% seeing Russia as a threat/problem?

Some here are calling it a massive corruption scam, and IMO that's certainly part of the equation. It's certainly been used as a tool to finish the capture of the EU, although there remain a few holdout nations. At yesterday's meeting Putin essentially named the Outlaw US Empire as the main force fighting against Russia; why is the Empire afraid to name Russia as its foe? Doing so wouldn't change much of the current status quo, although it might result in drastic reductions of Russian imports entering the Empire. Perhaps that's where the reason lies: The Empire is too dependent on Russian commerce to see it cutoff the way the EU has done. Perhaps it's time for Russia to do that since BidenCo don't seem capable of doing so.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 16 2022 16:46 utc | 9

Zelensky gutted that FIFA won't let him address the world just before the World Cup Footballing final between Argentina and France.


https://rsport.ria.ru/20221216/zelenskiy-1839189788.html

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 16 2022 16:47 utc | 10

Good article on what lies ahead for Europe over at nakedcapitalism.com

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/12/michael-hudson-discusses-the-future-of-europe-and-global-restructuring.html

I like the analogy of Europe becoming a museum.

Standards of living will drop to those of the Carribbean or other primarily tourist driven economies.

As for Ukraine, it is basically a dead zone in receivership to the IMF and western financial predators. With all of the productive eastern part lost to Russia, and the depopulated west remaining as a zombie-statelet, there is no way to service the debt without constant transfers of western fiat money. Of course the oligarchs will skim off the take, making the entire exercise pointless.

Posted by: Chris | Dec 16 2022 16:50 utc | 11

@ karlof1 | Dec 16 2022 16:46 utc | 9

of course pat ryder is full of shite! if she or he just came out and said the usa supports its banking, military and energy complex and will continue to do so - it would be much more honest and forthright... i have come to expect no honesty and forthrightness from the usa however.. sorry eric newhill.. at some point one has to call a spade a spade...

Posted by: james | Dec 16 2022 16:52 utc | 12

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦💡 Massive Strike on #Ukraine's Infrastructure on 16 Dec 2022 - what is known by 12:00⚡️

The RF Armed Forces have launched another massive missile strike on targets across #Ukraine.

▪️ In Kiev, CHPP-5, CHPP-6 and Darnitskaya CHPP were hit again. The underground was stopped, electricity was partially lost and water supply stopped.

▪️ #Zaporozhye region was hit by at least 12 strikes, local authorities said. In occupied #Zaporozhye, electricity and water were partially lost.

The engine room of the #Dnipro HPP was hit.

▪️ In #Kharkov, ground transport and the metro have come to a complete halt. There are disruptions in mobile communications. Partially there is no light and water. 7 strikes have hit the regional centre and 3 in the region.

#Zalyutino 330kV substation and #Kharkov 330kV PS were most likely hit. The previous day, the RF struck at CHPP-5. However, CHPP-3, which supplies power to all industrial facilities, remained unharmed.

Judging by the reports of the strike in the #Chuguev district, the fire attack might have been on CHPP-2 Eskhar.

▪️ Light went out in #Poltava and the Poltava region. The #Kremenchuk 330kV PS is likely been hit again. The #Mirgorod 330kV PS is also suspected of being hit.

▪️ In #Dnipropetrovsk region, there were explosions in #Kamenskoye and the regional centre. #Prydniprovska TPP is likely been hit again - traffic on Yuzhny Bridge opposite the TPP is blocked. The Prometey 330kV PS in #Kamenskoye is suspected been hit.

Explosions also occurred in #Pavlograd (likely the 330kV Pavlograd PS). Boiler houses and water supply are suspended in the city.

In #KrivoyRog, locals reported an explosion. Water and light were lost in the city. We already wrote that the Krivoy Rog TPP was shut down 1 1/2 month ago. Therefore, it is likely that either the Kirovskaya 330kV or Yuzhnaya 330kV PS was hit. In terms of logic, the Kirovskaya 330kV PS is most likely been hit - it supplies the water supply system.

▪️ There was a blackout in the #Cherkasy region. This could have been caused by both, the Polanyi 330kV PS being hit and the entire 330kV line along the Dnipro River being de-energised.

▪️ In #Kirovograd region, the Ukrainka 330kV PS was most likely hit. Pumping stations are shut down and power is lost. Several railroad sections are de-energized.

But the fact that the entire oblast is switched off could indicate that the 330kV switchgear of the Southern Ukraine NPP is down.

▪️ There are strikes in #Nikolaev and the region. Locals report power outages.

▪️ There are explosions in the #Ternopil region. There is only one 330kV Ternopil PS in the entire region.

▪️ In #Vinnitsa, shocks were also recorded. The Vinnitsa 330kV PS may have been hit.

▪️ An infrastructure facility in the #Odessa region has been hit. Power is partially lost in the regional centre.

▪️ In #Zhytomyr region, the Lesnaya 330kV PS in Korosten is affected. The PS bypassed the #Chernobyl NPP switchyard and supplied power to #Kiev from the #Rivne and Khmelnytskyi NPPs.

▪️ In the #Volyn, #Lvov, #Rivne, #Sumy and #Kherson regions, emergency blackouts occurred.

This is a direct consequence of the strikes in other regions. The same #Sumy is dependent on #Kremenchuk and #Kiev. And due to strikes on the Lesnaya 330kV PS, the Rivne NPP reactors could have shut down.

🩸Although the missile strike cannot be called the most massive in recent months, the number of missiles fired and the geography of targets is still impressive.

This confirms the systematic nature of the firing.

A new story has emerged in the Ukrainian infofield. People in chat rooms convince each other that the power was cut off before the strikes in order to mislead the enemy. Some even write that PPs are stopped on purpose for the duration of the raid.

There is no practical sense to be gained from such measures. But the Ukrainians believe such fables and convinces one another that the strikes by the RF are ineffective.


https://t.me/sitreports/2164

Posted by: Down South | Dec 16 2022 16:54 utc | 13

Two articles about the Ukrainian extreme right wing scene, in the same German newspaper, one from 2014, one from 2022.
2014: Right-wing radical becomes chief of police in Kiev
2022: Today's Azov regiment has nothing to do with the "neo-Nazi" battalion
How times change.

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 16 2022 16:55 utc | 14

I do not think we will see a big-arrows offensive by the Russians this winter outside of the LDPR border regions. Offensive are high-risk and I don’t see where on the map it’s worth taking that risk. But if they did, these are their options right now as I see them:

1. A border city- Kiev, Chernhov, Kharkov, Sumy. Mostly propaganda victories and they will be hard-fought.

2. Zaphorozie city. This would create a buffer zone to protect Melitopol. Right now Melitopol is only 50miles from the front line and if it was taken left-bank Kherson and Crimea would be cut off from overland supply. If Russia was very successful and managed to cross to the right bank, they could take Nikopol and save the NPP from shelling.

3. Retake some of what was lost in the Kharkov region. If the Oskil river was retaken it would make defending the northern LDPR much easier. If Izium and Lyman were retaken then the the occupied Donbass regions would be threatened again from the north- for all the good it did last time.

4. A big arrow from Kharkov to Dnieper city to close the cauldron on the Donbass. Probably unachievable.

5. A big arrow from Belarus down to Moldova to stop Western weapon shipments. Unrealistic. Northern Ukraine bordering Belarus is mostly swampland and the roads have been heavily fortified and mined. Too much land to cover. Taking 90% of the land would be as useless as taking 0%. Shipments can still come in overland via Odessa oblast.

Posted by: catdog | Dec 16 2022 16:56 utc | 15

Dmitriy Medvedev-On the question of legitimate military objectives

The question of legal military objectives has been treated differently in the history of mankind. He is perceived differently during the current conflict with the Nazi regime of Ukraine. For example, by the way, Russophobic senile people from the American Senate like to exercise on this topic inopportunely. However, there is something in common that lies in the customs of war and international conventions. These are the rules of conduct during the war (jus in bello), which originate in sacred sources.

What are legitimate military targets today?

Within the framework of the named rules of war , this is:
1. Any enemy troops (legal combatants and illegal combatants) that have not been officially withdrawn from its armed forces.
2. Any military and auxiliary equipment of the enemy.
3. Any objects related to military infrastructure, as well as to civilian infrastructure that contributes to the achievement of military goals (bridges, transport stations, roads, energy facilities, factories and workshops, at least partially fulfilling military orders, etc.).
4. The military and political leadership of the enemy country.
5. The armed forces of other countries that have officially entered the war, which are allies of the enemy country, and the objects located on their territory mentioned in paragraphs 1-4.

Today, however, there is a major question: can the hybrid war, de facto declared by NATO to our country, be considered the Alliance's entry into the war against Russia? Can the supply of a huge amount of weapons to Ukraine be considered an attack on Russia? And accordingly, are the military objectives of the North Atlantic Bloc listed in paragraphs 1-4 of this note legitimate?

The leaders of the NATO countries sing with one voice that their countries and the entire bloc are not at war with Russia.
But everyone understands well that everything is different…


https://t.me/azmilitary11/31033

Posted by: Down South | Dec 16 2022 16:57 utc | 16

I want to quote from a recent CNN article citing a dialog between Zelensky and Biden.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/11/politics/biden-zelensky-phone-call/index.html
"He told the American president that “Russian missile terror” has led to the destruction of about 50% of Ukraine’s energy infrastructure..."
I just think that Russia should focus on doing these missile strikes on a weekly basis for another month or two. There is no pressing necessity to rush for the so-called Winter Offensive.

Posted by: YIU | Dec 16 2022 17:01 utc | 17

👔👔An important achievement in recent months: The Western weapons are destroyed on the frontlines at a faster rate than they are being delivered to Kyiv.
 
Spending on the battlefield and reduced supplies exacerbate heavy weapons shortages in the AFU. Kiev cannot promptly repair disabled tanks and armored vehicles due to the destruction of most military-industrial complex enterprises and power outages. 

Maintaining this rate of arms losses will result in the majority of Ukrainian units having only vehicles with mortars or multiple-launch rocket systems installed by spring. With their high maneuverability, such vehicles have no combat protection, so the number of irretrievable losses in the Armed Forces of Ukraine will increase.


https://t.me/Slavyangrad/25195

Posted by: Down South | Dec 16 2022 17:03 utc | 18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5tnAbgdw98

Makes an interesting prediction that Russia will take Odessa and the neon production plant there. Claims Russian marines are preparing for invasion and taking that plant is critical

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 16 2022 17:03 utc | 19

Posted by: james | Dec 16 2022 16:19 utc | 2

No problem!

Posted by: Down South | Dec 16 2022 17:04 utc | 20

TASS reports on Kissinger’s piece published in the Spectator (UK):

Kissinger says it’s time to resolve conflict in Ukraine through talks
TASS LINK

[.]

According to Kissinger, "Ukraine has become a major state in Central Europe for the first time in modern history," resisting Russian forces. He also suggested that the international community - including China - is opposing Russia’s alleged threat or use of its nuclear weapons. Kissinger said he believes Ukraine’s neutrality is no longer meaningful and "a peace process should link Ukraine to NATO, however expressed."

Russia shouldn’t be weakened

The former secretary of state said the conflict’s outcome shouldn’t be a weakened Russia. He said "Russia has made decisive contributions to the global equilibrium and to the balance of power for over half a millennium."
"Its historical role should not be degraded," he wrote.
Should Russia, with its "global nuclear reach," be gripped by domestic problems, that could set off problems around the world, he said.

Kissinger’s proposals

The former diplomat mentioned the proposal he made in May to establish a ceasefire line along the borders of the territory that was controlled by Kiev as of February 24. He said Russia could retreat from the areas that it took during the special military operation, but not from the DPR, LPR and Crimea.

"If the pre-war dividing line between Ukraine and Russia cannot be achieved by combat or by negotiation, recourse to the principle of self-determination could be explored. Internationally supervised referendums concerning self-determination could be applied to particularly divisive territories which have changed hands repeatedly over the centuries," 
[.]

Kissinger is now 99. Who authored this piece on his behalf? ...."Ukraine neutrality is no longer meaningful and a peace process should link Ukraine to NATO"

Clearly a non-starter.

Posted by: Likklemore | Dec 16 2022 17:10 utc | 21

".... the training in Germany of 5000 Ukrainian operators will be necessary and will take 6 months at least."

Posted by: La Bastille | Dec 16 2022 16:36 utc | 5

Great information to have, thank you.

So, if the Zelenskyy regime wants to ensure that thousands of the children of the elites, and/or of those who will pay, are safely removed from harm while still able to wear the AFU uniform, and not be seen as draft dodgers, they now have a place to put them. Inventing a requirement of a college degree would help ensure that it looked plausible why the commoners were excluded.

With just a bit of foot dragging the program won't be delivering those 5000 operators back to Ukrainian soil until July or August of 2023, possibly just in time for an Armistice celebration.

And there's a good chance that the trainees, and those training them, will benefit from having first rate accommodations while in Germany, what with the Treasury of Uncle Sam, and that of Germany, footing the bill. Can't expect the highly expert contractors doing the training to put up with less than very nice housing, and it "only makes sense" to keep their trainees with them.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Dec 16 2022 17:16 utc | 22

Posted by: La Bastille | Dec 16 2022 16:36 utc | 5

Patriot or Nasams radar can’t detect the drones which Russians use due to the material being carbon fiber absorbing or low heat signature. I read a long article explaining technical details on this a month or two ago, I’ll try to find/repost.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 16 2022 17:24 utc | 23

Ukrainian pro-Russian channels started calling Zelensky a "kapo" - a prisoner in a Nazi camp who was assigned by the SS guards to supervise forced labor or carry out administrative tasks.
@ LightYearsFromHome | Dec 16 2022 16:39 utc | 6

Precisely. The idea that some Jews were instrumental in Hitler's ascent is what got Hannah Arendt shadow-banned: you're not supposed to talk about kapos.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 16 2022 17:24 utc | 24

Destruction or Ukro energy facilities is a good move. In fact that is the only thing that Russia can do without endangering its soldiers.
Theoretically it can increase number of refugees moving to Germany.
Germany must pay.

Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 16 2022 17:28 utc | 25

When we start taking lessons from that antique war criminal Kissinger, who probably has the most blood on his hands of any crooked shyster, dead or still breathing, then is the time to pack it in!

Posted by: Vragtes | Dec 16 2022 17:30 utc | 26

Reopen NS2!
Posted by: La Bastille | Dec 16 2022 16:45 utc | 8

Not possible since yesterday. Canada placed again sanctions on turbines, can't be used.

Posted by: rk | Dec 16 2022 17:31 utc | 27

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 16 2022 16:55 utc | 14

It is utterly disgusting that on the one hand, German politics indulges in various ways to make good on the atrocities done by the Nazis in WW II, be it against the Jews, the Roma, Sinti and the like - communists usually excluded. While on the other hand work hand in hand with right-wing nationalists and Nazi-fanboys in Ukraine, who name streets after Bandera and his fellow killers.

There was one really eye-opening article on a Polish portal, still being top of the pile despite being published in 2019. You won't hear a whipser about that or the Nazi love-in amongst Ukrainian troops and civilians alike over here though ...

https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/over-100000-slaughtered-with-axes-pitchforks-scythes-and-knives-the-wolyn-massacre-started-76-years-ago-today-and-lasted-for-two-years-6714

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Dec 16 2022 17:32 utc | 28

Posted by: james | Dec 16 2022 16:19 utc | 2

Seconded, choice updates.

Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 16 2022 17:38 utc | 29

Medvedev, the social media warrior who does nothing else, should know that "rules of war" are related to wars, not to running in circles. They didn't even dare to change the operation from special to anti-terrorist.

Posted by: rk | Dec 16 2022 17:42 utc | 30

Reopen NS2! Posted by: La Bastille | Dec 16 2022 16:45 utc | 8

Not possible since yesterday. Canada placed again sanctions on turbines, can't be used.

Posted by: rk | Dec 16 2022 17:31 utc | 27

The maintenance of the existing turbines or the use of different turbines can be done in Russia, eventually. Since Russia builds the world's most reliable rocket engines, a turbine should not be difficult. That said, Gazprom has said that the replacement of the sabotaged pipeline will take many months. They are unlikely to invest until the conflict is over and the western consortium project partners agree to pay their share.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 16 2022 18:02 utc | 31

Kapo is the perfect description

Posted by: Exile | Dec 16 2022 18:05 utc | 32

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 16 2022 17:03 utc | 19

My understanding is that neon is a gas which is distilled from thin air. Ukraine does not exactly have strategic neon deposits.

Posted by: catdog | Dec 16 2022 18:06 utc | 33

Here's the article on Geraniums vs. radars. Turns out the only effective defense against Geranium drones is either the "optical channel" a.k.a good old pop-pop-pop AA guns, or jamming the GPS or GLONASS link from ground based jamming devices. They need to be dispersed over a wide range of area, and they work on electricity. Of course, the drones also have the inertial gyro compass guidance, which may make them less accurate (probably not enough to miss something like a power plant or electrical distribution complex. Then you have some other methods which might be hard to implement.


Vzglyad, Yandex translation edited

Why is the Ukrainian air defence powerless against "air mopeds"
Dmitry Vinnik
professor of the Financial University, publicist
October 24, 2022, 18:55

The strikes of propellant projectiles, known as "Geran-2", on the energy infrastructure and military facilities of Ukraine were so successful that they competed significantly with cruise missiles, at least in terms of price/quality of damage to the enemy. In Ukraine, a form of hysteria has begun about the urgent need to create a layered air defence. The chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, in response to a request from the Kiev regime, said that it would be difficult to create a modern integrated air defense system in Ukraine "quickly." Mark Milli clearly pitied the tender ears of Ukrainians. It is simply impossible to create such a system quickly. And not only in Ukraine, but anywhere. In fact, only Russia has a fully integrated air defence system. The United States does not need it, and the air defence of European NATO countries leaves much to be desired. Really: "Why all these bulky missiles on lorries, if there are American fighters of the fifth generation!?"

Nevertheless, the panic in Kiev is so strong that some measures against "air mopeds" will certainly be taken by the enemy. There is little sense from the nationwide shooting from hundreds of machine guns and carbines in the residential buildings of cities with millions of people, and there is a decent amount of harm - it is almost impossible to destroy the Geranium in the air, and it is quite possible to damage the steering wheels so that it falls on a residential building. Fifty kilograms of explosives is a lot, about as much in a 100-kilogram FAB-100 aerial bomb.

Anti-aircraft missiles against "Geraniums" are ineffective. "Air mopeds" are made of carbon fibre, and radars see it poorly. And the size is so modest that it can be confused with a bird. And if this kamikaze drone starts writing out eights when approaching the target, then the old locators will not detect it at all. To shoot, for example, a S-300 missile at such a thing is mind-bogglingly wasteful. There are also infrared-guided missiles. But the heat trace from the drone is very small and not contrasting enough – it is also difficult to get such a rocket. You can shoot visually, as the anti-aircraft gunners say: "through the optical channel." The Osa air defence system copes with this quite well. But the AFU has few of them left, they are all at the front, and you can't shoot at night. But it's not just that. Almost any guided missile is many times more expensive than these rattles.

Against cheap, slow–moving and rattling drones, the good old rapid-firing anti-aircraft guns - various kinds of "infernal threshers": "Shilki", "Tunguska" and other "Cheetahs" (Gepardy) are effective. However, Ukraine does not have enough such guns either: there are several Tunguskas left, since the repair kits were made in Russia. The "Shilki" were removed from storage, but their radars have rotted, so they can only be fired visually. Germany promised 30 Cheetahs. To shoot, again, for the direct defence of objects, you will have to follow flat trajectories directly over residential buildings, and these are hundreds and even thousands of small, but quite lethal projectiles during the reflection of one attack.

The main hope in the fight against projectile aircraft in the Armed Forces of Ukraine is electronic warfare (EW). The fact is that "air mopeds" are guided by GLONASS and other global navigation systems. The geolocation signal is very sensitive to interference. As they write, during the second war in Iraq in 2003, led by the United States, several fairly powerful GPS jamming transmitters were installed on its territory. As a result of their work in the first three days, the Americans lost a significant number of cruise missiles – so much so that the shelling had to stop until the transmitters were destroyed.

According to Belarusian experts, in such a situation, it is better for the defending side to have smaller transmitters, but distributed over the territory in large numbers. This makes it difficult to detect and destroy system elements. The authors proposed options for placing interference transmitters on the ground by analogy with the coverage of the territory by a cellular communication system. Moreover, the cellular communication antennas themselves can be used to jam GPS with a small gain. But this is unlikely to help the Ukrainian regime. Firstly, it is very expensive and time-consuming to create a solid coating. Secondly, we will have time to de-electrify Ukraine earlier. Thirdly, there are effective breakthrough measures.

Of course, they will put active interference, and for sure they are already putting it. But it doesn't do much good. There are six methods of counteraction. The easiest way is to abandon counteraction altogether, turn off the GPS receiver and control the projectile aircraft "inertially": roughly speaking, the homing head remembers the target, and when the signal from the satellite is muffled, it goes and dives by gyrocompass and clock. This is not so accurate, it reduces the QUO (coefficient of probability deviation), but it will hit the target of the "free-standing power plant" type quite well. If the power of the jammer is weak, then the radius of the cover is small – the deviation will not be large.

But there are other methods of EW breakthrough. The most powerful is spatial signal selection: the use of a phased array antenna (HEADLIGHT) with "maxima" in the directions to the satellites or/and with "zeros" in the directions to the sources of interference. Headlights are radars that instead of a "dish" use a grid with hundreds of tiny antennas-"pins". By the way, 5G towers are essentially headlights. Probably, theoretically, they can even be used to locate drones at distances of hundreds of meters. For the first time, the headlights were installed on the S-300 radar and the MIG-31 interceptor. Of course, no one will put such an expensive antenna on a hellish scooter. One such thing is probably worth dozens of such scooters. But to protect a more valuable cruise missile, it is quite appropriate.

There is also a method of equipping the homing head (homing) of a projectile aircraft with alternative navigation signal receivers. If one signal is suppressed, the other may well continue working. Each signal has its own range, and solid interference is rare. Here will be the number if it turns out that electrification disruptor drones use, among other things, American GPS. But this assumption is from the series "abused with special cynicism." There is also, by the way, the Chinese Beidou system. According to TASS, on August 2 of this year we agreed on its joint use together with GLONASS, of course – for peaceful purposes.

In other words, Zelensky's hopes that jamming will save their energy and management from being crushed by thousands of projectile planes are empty. By the way, the cellular communication system of Ukraine closer to the front line would also be nice to thin out.

Russia in a good way should have such a colossal number of aerial killer robots of various types that if an abstract Zelensky accidentally went out on the balcony on a fine day of another aerial retaliation, he should have ripples in his eyes and rattle in his ears.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 16 2022 18:10 utc | 34

Here is the link to today's Kissinger proposal in The Spectator:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-push-for-peace/

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 16 2022 18:19 utc | 35

Peskov has said that Putin has not yet had a chance to review Kissinger's peace proposal, but was anxious to do so.

I respectfully suggest he not waste his time, more of the same BS. Russia leaves the east and then negotiates Crimea.... LOLOLOL

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 16 2022 18:27 utc | 36

Not possible since yesterday. Canada placed again sanctions on turbines, can't be used.

Posted by: rk | Dec 16 2022 17:31 utc | 27


----

Last I read NS2 used RU mfg'd turbines unlike the NS1 ones that were build and maintained by Siemens, and their repair\refit depot in CA. Not that I think the prospects of salvaging and using NS2 are any less remote in the near term, just that I'm not sure moves of Canada will have much to do with it one way or another.

Posted by: knighthawk | Dec 16 2022 18:28 utc | 37

Not possible since yesterday. Canada placed again sanctions on turbines, can't be used.

Posted by: rk | Dec 16 2022 17:31 utc | 27

NS2 uses Russian made turbines. It was one of the points the Russians were using when urging the Germans to open NS2 back when Canada wouldn't return the NS1 turbines.

Posted by: CPY | Dec 16 2022 18:28 utc | 38

Kissinger proposal - Complete waste of time imho, what might have been possible in April or May (when the contents were first floated), is not possible now imho, and reads like a complete non-starter that is out of touch.

Posted by: knighthawk | Dec 16 2022 18:31 utc | 39

My understanding is that neon is a gas which is distilled from thin air. Ukraine does not exactly have strategic neon deposits.

Posted by: catdog | Dec 16 2022 18:06 utc | 33

Your understanding is correct. However, air doesn't produce pur neon by itself. Per wiki:

"About 70% of global neon supply is produced in Ukraine[43] as a by-product of steel production in Russia.[44] As of 2020, the company Iceblick, with plants in Odessa and Moscow, supplies 65 per cent of the world's production of neon, as well as 15% of the krypton and xenon.[45][46]"

Posted by: Mary | Dec 16 2022 18:32 utc | 40

Posted by: Down South | Dec 16 2022 16:54 utc | 13

Massive Strike on #Ukraine's Infrastructure on 16 Dec 2022 - what is known by 12:00 ... ...

Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 16 2022 17:28 utc | 25

Destruction or Ukro energy facilities is a good move. In fact that is the only thing that Russia can do without endangering its soldiers ...

".. only thing that Russia can do .."
Think so today. The Grey-zone borders only moving west or east by a max. of 10 sqkm each.
The UAF brigades near Donbass front-line are still better supported "from behind" today than some "people" here might realize (ref.to the latest MIL-reports on ground).
They only new successful operations today and on next days seem to be further destruction of energy power locations.
May be, those drone strikes will help to cut the back-support material and the UAF men's needs to survive on -10C degrees on ground. Who would have the better support for meals & ovens on ground?

Posted by: spare_truth | Dec 16 2022 18:32 utc | 41

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 16 2022 16:46 utc | 9:

How many barflies can clearly see the contradiction in the following statement:

"Pentagon Claims US Not Seeking Conflict With Russia, Focused on Providing Help to Ukraine"

My guess is that 99% of barflies here would see the ludicrous contradiction, but less than 1% of the population in the US, whom the Pentagon claim was meant to hear, would see any contradiction. That is the big problem of the society you and live in today.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Dec 16 2022 18:47 utc | 42

Current Gas Supply in Germany


the Federal Network Agency continues to assess the situation as tense and cannot rule out any further deterioration in the situation. [...]
Gas consumption was 49. Calendar week 5.2% below the average consumption over the past four years. It rose by 11.8% compared to the previous week. The savings target was clearly missed [...]

Adjusted for temperature, consumption was in the 48th and 49th. Calendar week only 12% below the reference value of the past four years and is therefore in the critical range.
The forecast temperature for this week is - 3.18 ° C in the critical range. Significant additional consumption can therefore be expected.

Wholesale prices fluctuate strongly and have recently dropped slightly. Companies and private consumers must continue to adjust to a significantly higher price level.

The Federal Network Agency expressly emphasizes the importance of economical gas consumption.

A national gas shortage in winter can be avoided if,
firstly, the savings target of at least 20% is still achieved
Secondly, the LNG terminals have to feed in at the beginning of the year
and thirdly, the winter-related decline in imports and the increase in currently particularly low exports have to be rather moderate.
https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/DE/Gasversorgung/aktuelle_gasversorgung/start.html;jsessionid=0DE811232D572E82AD942F14B5943D31

Posted by: Weimar | Dec 16 2022 18:47 utc | 43

Down South I echo James' recognition of your postings. I am unable to get telegram so I look for your updates multiple times per day. Deep appreciation and respect.

Posted by: migueljose | Dec 16 2022 18:54 utc | 44

@migueljose | Dec 16 2022 18:54 utc | 46

Down South I echo James' recognition of your postings. I am unable to get telegram so I look for your updates multiple times per day. Deep appreciation and respect.
How to Use Telegram Without Phone Number or SIM

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 16 2022 19:05 utc | 45

@chunga 7 -
“Its one thing to be hoodwinked by fake news. It's entirely another thing to *want* the fake things they see to be true.”

Very good comment! It is about whether one values truth, and holds truth to be higher than one’s own biases. The thing about the truth is - either one is 10% committed or not at all. One cannot adhere to the truth when it benefits one, and bend and falsify it when it doesn’t.

Posted by: Moses22 | Dec 16 2022 19:06 utc | 46

@all

Some troll is faking "Peter AU1" comments with pro Ukrainian content. That is not "Peter AU1"'s position.

If you see such a comment please do NOT respond to it. I will delete it as soon as I notice it.

Posted by: b | Dec 16 2022 19:08 utc | 47

Hmm. This perspective might be appreciated here.

“Caesar Vlad, on the other hand, rules a land that can do what no other can. His land can produce, end to end, a complete chain of production for all he needs to continue in power. Indefinitely. That is what the Russian world is. Let me give you an extreme example. What country can produce, from nose to tail, a nuclear powered titanium-hulled submarine carrying ICBM’s that can reach any point on earth in under an hour. With something equally nuclear.

No, not even the West can do that. We can produce that same result, but only so long as the Imperial supply chain remains unbroken. What have the last three years taught us about supply chains? Simple, Komrade. They aren’t under Imperial control anymore. We farmed too much out to our enemies.

Vlad has used the time from 2000 till now to reclaim control of the vast resources of Russia, which account for approximately two thirds of all mineral wealth, in almost every category. And our idiotic sanctions have driven his minions to create internal alternatives to Western products. From the simplest to the most exotic. And no, the military might of Russia does not depend on four-nanometer chip technology. They build brutally simple weapons in brutally brilliant ways. To the point where we, in our sociological fever swamp, have fallen generations behind.”

https://www.wmbriggs.com/post/44064/

Posted by: cameron232 | Dec 16 2022 19:12 utc | 48

I still can't believe that there are people out there thinking a country is winning after its power grid is toasted, industry is lost, half its army is out, and the donators also running out of energy weapons and ammo.
You guys need a shrink.

You do not win a war by re-entering an abandonned area you can't even supply with energy anymore.
You win when you defeat the opponents forces.
And that was not achieved by Ukraine
On the contrary
While Russia is moving around to save its forces AFU is holding on for propaganda.

Ukraine could save a lot of its men by retreating behind the Dniepr - as Russia did in Kherson - but they want to lose the bulk of the rest of their best just to please the dumb audience in the West.
That is criminal and will lead to their total defeat.

By holding on in the Donbas - Ukraine is doomed to be taken out by the 9 to one artillery firepower advantage the Russians have.
The latter does not even have to move an inch to win.
It is just pure mathematics.

Ukraine is losing more armoured vehicles a week than the West can deliver in a month.
Artillery shells are running low
Air defense is almost done.
100s of KIA and much more WIA every fucking day!
If you call that winning - you are either an idiot or a liar.


https://t.me/geromanat/3788

Posted by: Down South | Dec 16 2022 19:19 utc | 49

I imagine that you all heard, saw, and read the statement of Medvedev. Everything is the target now that can contribute of any kind to AFU. Even political leadership and foreign armies on 404 territory soil. So, more cards are on the table. The intention is to break the spine of the 404ers and their will to resist.

I think we have been patient long enough. Our missiles will darken the sky of their cities. Nazi worshipers will be the first target. Including you, dear, dear Cypso. We will hit you one by one, and when you think you are safe, we will knock loudly. And all the crimes you committed against people will be avenged. For those who helped you, we will never forget what you did. We will take you one by one.

Some will live in fear of our retribution. We are back in business. Let God have mercy on your soul because we won't.


https://t.me/Slavyangrad/25209

Posted by: Down South | Dec 16 2022 19:22 utc | 50

Posted by: migueljose | Dec 16 2022 18:54 utc | 44

No problem!

Posted by: Down South | Dec 16 2022 19:23 utc | 51

@48; @cameron232

Yes, that perspective will be very well appreciated here. It is another delusional Westerner believing in Putinist hype machine.

Reality:

Putin has completed destruction of remains of Soviet industry left over from Yeltsin.

Machine tools, machinery, all implements required for industrial production were sourced from the West (primarily Germany, Japan, Italy, Czech Republic...) in the last 15 years.

Everything Russian sold to oligarchs who are friends of Putin to sell for scrap.

"Import substitution" consisted of things like importing a Czech made tractor, putting new decals on, and calling it "Russian".

All the West has to do is wait for the high-tech machine tooling to wear out and all Russian industry is paralysed.

They can't rebuild it because the factories were turned into scrap, the educated specialists are retired, and the profits went to an oligarch to build a megayacht (in Germany).

The ONLY thing that can prevent catastrophe is massive Chinese assistance.

They don't seem very interested.

Posted by: moaobserver | Dec 16 2022 19:25 utc | 52

@ Opport Knocks 37

Many thanks for your helpful input.

Kissinger's Proposal is not worthy of wasting 1/84th second of thought.

= = = = = = = ==

"the YARS strategic missile"

Dialing up the fear of nukes.

03:37, Fri, Dec 16, 2022 | UPDATED: 03:37, Fri, Dec 16, 2022

Vladimir Putin could be preparing for a nuclear strike on the UK

The UK rag, Daily Express, said. "amid threats of London attack"... Putin readies second nuclear weapon. YARS has been placed in an underground Russian military silo complex it has a range of 7,500 miles.

Why waste a YARS? there's a Kinzhal from the Caspian Sea.

Posted by: Likklemore | Dec 16 2022 19:27 utc | 53

The inbred Aristo elite martial families of the natzo empire in Britain have been undertaking an undeclared war against the European Union and Russia - a long planned and facistically implemented one.

The gongs are already prepared. A few were announced in November - to some military NCO types. Wtf have the Tank batallion, the Nursing Corps and the Submarine doodahs been doing to earn mentions in dispatches

Like I said the New Year gongs are going to be revelatory wonder how many posthumous retired military and obscure civil servants no one has ever heard of are to be announced.

The Big Lie is unraveling.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 16 2022 19:28 utc | 54

La Bastille #5

"It needs a group of 90 well-trained people per system"

Almost as if the NATO crazies were trying to create what is called a "target rich environment"

Posted by: KhinZirc | Dec 16 2022 19:31 utc | 55

Gilbert Doctorow's monitoring of Russian public opinion today includes analysis of political talk shows (of the sort no longer to be found in the anglophone world.) Highly recommended.

On one show the chairman of the Duma's Defence Committee calls for plans to bomb London.
".... the war in Ukraine held its own thanks to some fiery statements by a retired high military officer who is now the head of the State Duma’s Committee on Defense. His opening remarks were sure to attract riveted attention: he called for the putting in place of plans to bomb London! Why not, he asked rhetorically, given that the British have spoken publicly about the possibility of bombing Moscow. Russia should destroy the military command infrastructure in and around London using either conventional or nuclear arms. Like others on the show, this panelist sees the war through the prism of armed conflict between Russia and NATO, where Ukraine is only the designated territory of combat. From this perspective it will indeed be a ‘long war’ that goes on for many years to come.

"Otherwise, the number one Ukrainian topic of the evening was the unprecedented Ukrainian rocket and artillery attack the day before on the provincial capital of Donetsk, which received more than 150 incoming missiles, many from US-provided launchers. None of the blasts was directed against military targets; all struck residential buildings, markets, social infrastructure buildings at morning hours when there would be a maximum of people in the targeted structures or open spaces. Photos from the scene of destruction were put up on the screen and included images of the main cathedral of Donetsk, whose cupola was struck directly by one missile; this was held up as one more demonstration of the ‘satanic’ nature of the Kievan rulers, whose intent was clearly to traumatize the Donbas population.Many commentators, myself included, have explained this remark as self-justificatory in the context of ongoing vilification of Merkel in German media and political spheres for having been ‘soft’ on the Russians during her time in office. However, last night’s panelist said that Merkel’s political statements are never accidental or incidental, but are substantive. Her intention was to ride the current wave of thinking in German political circles by making negotiations with Russia impossible due to total breakdown in mutual trust. This is part and parcel of the ‘long war’ policy against Russia..."

"...Otherwise, as is often the case in recent editions of the show, yesterday’s Evening with Vladimir Solovyov was given over to philosophizing over the new identity Russia must adopt now that its love affair with the West is finally over. The debate is now no longer between Western-oriented Liberals and Conservatives. It is among Conservatives themselves, who have split between Nationalists and Centrists. On this show, the former tend to be represented by Duma members or LDPR party stalwarts and the latter by university deans and think tank presidents.

"When leader of the LDPR party Vladimir Zhirinovsky was alive, he was frequently invited onto the Solovyov show and was given unlimited use of the microphone, never interrupted as was so often the practice suffered by other panelists. Now the nationalist positions of Zhirinovsky are advanced by others, including RT editor-in-chief Margarita Simonian and by Duma member Andrey Lugovoy, best known in the West as the KGB operative wanted by the British police on suspicion of murdering Alexander Litvinenko, and by Solovyov himself. I have little doubt that in the weeks ahead we will see the recent prisoner exchange Viktor Bout on the Solovyov program given that he has just been inducted into the LDPR Party.

"What all of these Nationalists have in common that sets them apart from the academicians in the Centrist group is strong leanings towards Soviet era mobilization of the whole population of Russia around national defense in the coming ‘long war’ with the USA and NATO. Solovyov himself repeatedly speaks of the need to establish ongoing military training of all able-bodied males so as to prepare a 3-million strong Russian army. As regards the economy, these Nationalists take a dim view of the market and seek state direction of industry."

https://gilbertdoctorow.com/

Posted by: bevin | Dec 16 2022 19:31 utc | 56

unimperator @ 23

Patriot or Nasams radar can’t detect the drones which Russians use due to the material being carbon fiber absorbing or low heat signature.

I don't think the Patriots are going into Ukraine as the latest desperate attempt by the Pentagon/NATO to protect Ukraine's infrastructure. The Patriot's time has now come as part of the long, slow plan of escalation that is necessary so that the West constantly looks to be on the defensive, ie having moral rectitude.

The plan is to contest Russia's no-fly zone, always has been. The only way for Ukraine's big and arguably definitive offensive towards Melitopol to succeed is with air cover. This is also the reason behind the talk of sending Abrams and Leopards. It's possible Ukraine's best troops and the largest contingent of NATO mercenaries has been held in reserve and a new force is being built in Ukraine with the latest western weapons and air power.

Christoforou had an important youtube today, he noted the Ukrainian and USA rhetoric has determinedly, in a very orchestrated and coordinated manner, shifted not to driving Russia out of Ukraine but in the total defeat and surrender of Russia.

If Russia looses air dominance over Ukraine it is in very big trouble. The mobilized troops in Belarus become trapped there and useless, they may already be as Belarus is in check from invasion from Poland and the Baltics, and Kaliningrad has never gone away. The Patriots aren't a fall back they are upping the ante. My guess is the Pentagon will send every Patriot system from every part of the globe into Ukraine to ready the air dominance.

Another thing I'm suspicious of is all the talk of drained out and empty arsenals in the West, all this "tragic" info is coming out of western govt. controlled propaganda media, since when does a military let the enemy know they are out of ammo, it's unheard of. Yes, it's 90% MIC marketing for pillaging the national coffers, but it's also bullcrap that the West is signaling, in fact shouting, they are running out of weapons.

It's all one concerted effort and something very big is up.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 16 2022 19:33 utc | 57

Posted by: Down South | Dec 16 2022 19:19 utc | 49

.. Artillery shells are running low..

All you've referred by 'geromanat' seem to be realistic, but with that one exception:
So means, the artillery shells are NOT yet running low still today.
Pls. note the ever day-by-day increasing of shelling the Donetzk City, causing more & more than before civilian deaths & casualties. That shows today's UAF strikes have a still strong support and supply of rockets (HIMARS) available on UAF side, that obviously cannot be eliminated by RF/DNR forces!

Posted by: spare_truth | Dec 16 2022 19:40 utc | 58

LightYearsFromHome:

Yes, because NATO realise it will be a cakewalk and the Putinist regime is too weak to do anything except sue for peace.

Why is it weak?

Corruption, neo-liberalism.

From the Russian topwar.ru site:

https://en.topwar.ru/206863-gde-70-sovremennogo-vooruzhenija-v-vojskah.html

"Where are 70% of modern weapons in the troops?"

(Answer: On paper; with profits skimmed off by "managers" who produce "beautiful reports" for ass-kissers like Shoigu)

Some comments illustrative of the mood IN RUSSIA:

alekseykabanets:
"It is clear that it is nowhere to be found, but all these are consequences, and the reason is the lack of industrial production. No industry == no modern army == no education, because why train competent specialists, where should they work? Equally lack of medicine and others, and others. And today, the financial policy of the state, sharpened by the trade in resources (low value-added products), does not allow the development of Russian industry. From this it should be concluded that since the times of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, in terms of the collapse of industry, nothing has changed and the current leadership of the country should be considered worthy successors of the work of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, the NWO has clearly shown this."

HaByxoDaBHocep:
"Yes, we have no industry, I work at a wood-chemical plant; all equipment is imported, pumps are imported, sanctions were introduced, production almost stopped, because sulfur dioxide, hydrogen peroxide, etc. were supplied from Finland, how did we come to this?"

single-n:
"Okay, fill it up. In our city, the machine-tool building went bankrupt in 2009. Now there is a mall. You can check out the Lipetsk Machine Tool Plant.

Weird. And in our country, for example, the tractor plant was finished off in 2004-2009. The last workshop for the production of military equipment was closed either in 2020 or in 2019. The pipe plant was also broken in 2000. The starter engine plant was also converted into a shopping center not so long ago.
...
There is such an interesting story with tractor production. In fact, the entire industry turned out to be in the same hands, and even guess where it is registered? Right in Cyprus. There the plot is so dashing that even the FSB was connected. But there the leading military factories turned out to be dirty."

And so on and so forth.

This place is for Putin cultists who imagine that he is some sort of crypto-communist or sincere anti-imperialist.

He is just another neoliberal moron.

Chairman Xi should make any aid conditional on replacing the entire rotten corrupt structure with real Communists and someone effective, like Lukashenko. With Kadyrov to replace Shoigu...

People who believe Putin with his clever talk and "cunning 5d chess plans" are as foolish as the idiots who gave the Nobel Peace Prize to Obama.

Posted by: moaobserver | Dec 16 2022 19:44 utc | 59

So if the NS2 doesn't use Canada turbines then I don't understand why Canada put back sanctions on them. Must be a trick

Today I read that new sanctions fom eu include Kadyrov's children and many political parties. And Armed forces of all sorts. Russians must be laughing hard this evening. Another funny thing is that Greece wants to give s300 to ukr in exchange for patriot.

Posted by: rk | Dec 16 2022 19:47 utc | 60

b | Dec 16 2022 19:08 utc | 47

Thanks b.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 16 2022 19:50 utc | 61

Hasbara has entered the chat in the form of moaobservor

Posted by: Exile | Dec 16 2022 19:55 utc | 62

The US has it's own drone suppliers.

the unmanned aerial vehicles that attacked Crimea were drones produced by the American company Spektreworks. The same drones were used to strike at the Voronezh, Belgorod and Kursk regions.
Подробнее на: https://avia-pro.net/news/krym-atakovali-amerikanskie-bespilotniki-spektreworks

Assembled in Poland and then sent further into Ukraine to be launched.
***

The Russians are replacing Topol ICBMS with the newer "Yars" regiments. Third such change in a few days.
***

The Ukrainians are fleeing to Poland, and at the same time there is also a very large movement of Poles into Germany. I wonder where the Germans will go?
***

b | Dec 16 2022 19:08 utc | 47
Thank you b for acting against the identity theft of Peter AU1. It seemed a bit more "organised" than usual
**
And thanks to south front and the updates.

Posted by: Stonebird | Dec 16 2022 20:04 utc | 63

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 16 2022 19:33 utc | 58

I think you need a chill pill mate. This is a bit theory conspiring. But a nice theory haha... you are implying that the western rulers are smart, which they should be by all logic, but they are the bad guys like the emperor in star wars so they are not very smart, maybe in treating their citizens like sheep and brainwashing them they are smart, but outsmarting Russia I dont think so. Cant outsmart the good guys, it opposes the very being of our existence that dark can overcome light. If you know what I mean. :D

Watch the new atlas video about patriot and it will be clear to you they dont even have enough rockets for patriots, if they sent all the patriots around the globe to ukraine hehe... its not possible since they gotta have them in taiwan/japan/south korea/i dont know where the fuck they are "defending" their vassals. Russia is not their only adversary around the globe, even North Korea could nuke the shit out of Japs/Koreans if shit hits the fan. China, Iran etc. If someone still thinks hollywood air force could take on china/russia/iran/north korea combined (USA hollywood shit aint even got supersonic delivery rockets yet, so China and Russia could erase them and their every base/carrier in 10 minutes given they have printed enough by now lol, which they should have since its an existential matter to them.) you guys are reading the wrong stuff I guess. Good luck and get better at reading.

Posted by: Jzo | Dec 16 2022 20:07 utc | 64

"Kapo is the perfect description"

I'd prefer the "Lee Harvey Oswald" of the Ukrainian debacle.
In the end he'll be killed by his puppeeters and all the blame will be conveniently put on his head.

Z in 2023 : "I'm just a patsy!!! Let me fly to the Bahamas and spend my millions!!!"

Nope. BANG!

Posted by: Nanker | Dec 16 2022 20:11 utc | 65

I do like that dry Russian sense of humor:

Asked about Kissinger’s proposal, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Russian President Vladimir Putin was “eager to give the article a thorough reading,” but “hasn’t had a chance to do so yet, unfortunately.”

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 16 2022 20:25 utc | 66

@james (3) "Intel Slava Z
🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡Russia fired 72 missiles at Ukraine in an hour"

Now, for sure, they have run out of missiles.

Posted by: Rob | Dec 16 2022 20:30 utc | 67

The most concerning news today is John Kirby's announcement that the White House agrees to Ukraine conducting military operations in Crimea. That seems to me to be a serious escalation of the war beyond the Patriot missile systems, beyond the 9th set of sanctions.

https://scooptrade.com/white-house-recognizes-ukraines-right-to-conduct-operations-in-crimea/

Posted by: Belle | Dec 16 2022 20:32 utc | 68

With what troops is Ukraine going to conduct military operations in Crimea? Perhaps it will be all the survivors from Bakhmut. They may be able to send in some drones, but I doubt it can be much more than that.

Posted by: Rob | Dec 16 2022 20:40 utc | 69

The question still remains, given the weather conditions and the necessity to use major arterials, how does Ukraine continue to maintain its logistics to the front without interdiction?

Also the Chinese axis seems to be a fairytale, otherwise there’d be thousands of Chinese drones at the front.

My fear is that Russia is a tiger surrounded by a pack of dogs and slowly bleeding and all the dogs (including China) are waiting for it to bleed out.

Posted by: Johnycomelately | Dec 16 2022 20:41 utc | 70

Posted by: moaobserver | Dec 16 2022 19:44 utc | 60

So Russia deindustrialized in favor of China about 10 years after the USA and vassals did. As Zanon says; "Russia, always a step behind.™"

The difference now is Russia appears to be reindustrializing at a much faster rate than the US and vassals are.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 16 2022 20:43 utc | 71

I have been trying to follow the arguments over numbers here and elsewhere, and offer some thoughts. Some of these are informed by some very serious albeit amateur research on WW2 losses and attrition rates – and though that war ended in 1945 there is still considerable confusion, academic disagreement and downright mis-information about losses and basic numbers.

A good rule of thumb though is that for every KIA, maybe 3 guys are WIA. Of those 2 may have a future career back in the military after re-hab, but the other poor guy will not – the wounds are too serious (loss of limbs etc). Unless there are large scale encirclements/surrenders MIA are relatively few in numbers – though being hit by an artillery shell tends to create an MIA not a verifiable KIA.

The recycling of WIA back to the line depends on definitions to a point. Every army has its own. So for example Army A may call a minor flesh wound a wound, whereas Army B may ignore it and not report the wound. But maybe 6 months to a year is normal for WIA to go through the system and back to units. So we would expect a proportion of both sides’ wounded to be redeployed by now after a 10 month campaign.

After ten months and around 300 days – and given the nature of the fighting – I would be astonished if UAF KIA were less than 150,000. There have also been some notable encirclements. So maybe permanent losses are 150,000 KIA and 20,000 MIA (prisoners). They may have suffered up to 450,000 additional wounded, of whom 150,000 will never fight again. Of the other 300,000 maybe 100,000 are back in the ranks and 200,000 in hospital. There is a wrinkle here that the reports of UAF medivac services are poor so it is possible that many WIA subsequently die but are not counted as KIA as they died in hospital or on their way to one. The point though is that when counting numbers of soldiers, you included those lying in hospital beds in overall totals – they are still enlisted.

All of these numbers are of course broad guesses but I doubt even the Ukrainian high command have accurate figure on losses, or even where and how many troops they have now, and still less at any moment in time how many are “combat trained”. And even that depends on a definition. Is this to NATO standards or the 1 month crash course provided by say the UK? Though these numbers are guesses I would argue they are directionally correct and in the right sort of scale.

It is possible that the UAF has 700,000 men. However in WW2 the much vaunted Wehrmacht was noted for its lean tail to tooth ratio and western forces – and subsequently NATO ones – had and have a greater bias to a smaller fighting arm and good logistics. Nevertheless the Wehrmacht was rarely able to field more than half its forces in the field armies and the balance were in training, home defence and garrison duties and also hospitals. So in 1944 say – going from memory here – the Wehrmacht fielded around 10M men, of who only about 5M were in field armies – though the Kreigsmarine and Luftwaffe absorbed several million also. The SS were included in overall totals and I suspect the UAF equivalent (Azov etc) are similarly counted.

The UAF though might have the following sorts of numbers:

“Trained” troops with combat units 100,000
Semi-trained troops in the line 100,000
Troops in training 100,000
Guys in hospital 200,000
Navy (including marines) 50,000
Air force 50,000
Home defence and internal security 100,000
TOTAL 700,000

Counting MIA and KIA of maybe 170,00 and WIA lost to the force structure of 150,000 this equates roughly to the 1 million men Ukraine earlier claimed to have mobilised. They will also have a militarised police force to call on for home defence, possibly other para-military type organisations.

This is all educated guesswork but I think the nuances and simple definitions etc are important in trying to understand what is being said, quite apart from the deliberate misinformation and propaganda.

Russian numbers and losses are even more opaque but I suggest they have also suffered serious losses but lower than the UAF and if they do not outnumber significantly the UAF in “trained” deployable manpower at this moment in time they have got something very badly wrong.

Posted by: marcjf | Dec 16 2022 20:47 utc | 72

@ Down South I also appreciate your Telegram cross posts because I cannot access Telegram.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 16 2022 21:08 utc | 73

Posted by: Belle | Dec 16 2022 20:32 utc | 69

But how could Ukraine conduct military exercises inside a foreign country with which it is currently at war? Is that coded language for conducting an actual attempt to retake Crimea?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 16 2022 21:09 utc | 74

@72;

They’d better hurry because NATO are 10x the economic power and population of the Russian Federation.

Posted by: Moaobserver | Dec 16 2022 21:25 utc | 75

It's been discussed here before but for those who may have missed it regarding Telegram. The only way I can use it on a PC is by inserting an "s" before the name of the channel and then it's possible to "preview" in channel in a browser. I'll put the following links not as endorsements but examples. I think the problems with the desktop app I have stem from slow DSL.

https://t.me/s/rybar

https://t.me/s/wargonzo

https://t.me/s/intelslava

Posted by: chunga | Dec 16 2022 21:26 utc | 76

new news from G. Doctorow, from last nights Russian, Evening with Vladimir Solovyov. there were also at least two or thre other golden nuggets about Syria and recent changes at the top of the Chinese leadership under Xi, all of which are pro-Russian and anti-Western:


"....Otherwise, the number one Ukrainian topic of the evening was the unprecedented Ukrainian rocket and artillery attack the day before on the provincial capital of Donetsk, which received more than 150 incoming missiles, many from US-provided launchers. None of the blasts was directed against military targets; all struck residential buildings, markets, social infrastructure buildings at morning hours when there would be a maximum of people in the targeted structures or open spaces.

Photos from the scene of destruction were put up on the screen and included images of the main cathedral of Donetsk, whose cupola was struck directly by one missile; this was held up as one more demonstration of the ‘satanic’ nature of the Kievan rulers, whose intent was clearly to traumatize the Donbas population.

There were more than a dozen deaths and a great many injured among the civilians from the latest Ukrainian barrage. The conclusion which Solovyov’s panelists reached from this reign of terror that has gone unreported by Western media is that it is high time to wreak destruction on the city of Kiev, not merely on its power generation, so as ‘to wipe the smile off the faces of the Ukrainian Nazi gang.’....."

Posted by: michaelj72 | Dec 16 2022 21:40 utc | 77

Posted by: Archie | Dec 16 2022 19:21 utc | 50

Exactly Archie - or at least one segment of them. It is of course an ambit claim but a pretty god beginning for Russia.

Now from the point of view of NATO, they need a viable Ukraine onto which you place missiles and offensive weapons. Combined with the recent, lets include Ukraine in NATO comment, then the idea may be give Russia Donesk and Luhansk, probably also most of Kherson and Zaporizhia, but save Odessa, Kiev and Kharkov.

Now Russia would be foolish to accept such a deal, but I guess none of us really know the real strength of its military, so they might accept it, if sanctions etc were lifted.

Russia would be foolish to accept any deal that did not involve complete neutrality in Ukraine and absolutely no offensive weapons or NATO forces. Removal of bases on Bulgaria and Romania might also be demanded. Getting them out of Poland and the Baltics may be an impossible goal, although Latvia looks to be in serious energy deficiency.

Posted by: watcher | Dec 16 2022 21:44 utc | 78

Accordingly, the German Weather Service (DWD) is currently expecting up to ten degrees and no snow on the public holidays in Germany. "It's more of a green Christmas," said DWD meteorologist Andreas Friedrich on Friday in Offenbach.

https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article242734549/Wetterdienst-Gruen-und-10-Grad-plus-Zu-Weihnachten-soll-die-Eiseskaelte-vorbei-sein.html


If nothing unforeseen happens,” Chancellor Olaf Scholz (SPD) assumes that there will be no shortage of gas in Germany next winter either. He announced that he intends to push ahead with the construction of new LNG terminals in the coming year.

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article242729899/Olaf-Scholz-erwartet-auch-im-Winter-2023-204-keine-Gasknappheit.html


Posted by: Ćevapčići | Dec 16 2022 21:45 utc | 79

oops forgot the link to Doctorow. sorry

https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2022/12/16/what-are-they-now-talking-about-on-russian-talk-shows/

Posted by: michaelj72 | Dec 16 2022 21:52 utc | 80

Mike Whitney's new article on unz, "Putin's Conundrum," points to the idea posited here before that Putin is trying to bring-down gently the rampaging, western leviathan without ushering in an all-out nuclear catastrophe.

Why would Putin feel so ill-at-ease with the thought that the west would launch nukes at Russia if what we are talking about, here, is a border-skirmish between uke-nationalists and a Tsarist-revanchism by Russia and Putin?

To the average American in a suburban area, the thought of seeing nukes detonated on the horizon over this skirmish in Ukraine would be similar to the "Native" Americans first notice the flags waving on Spanish Galleons off the eastern shore. It would probably evoke a puzzled look to which the average American would quickly try to understand the situation better by their phone that perhaps would already be out of service due to the downed network.

Why this would be so shocking to the average-American here in the states would, of course, bring nothing but a sigh of understanding from most here at the bar: we know that this skirmish in Ukraine is just 4th and 5th Generational Warfare that is hiding the confrontation from the globalist-totalitarians on one side and the non-communist nationalists on the other. One seeks globo-homo, neo-feudalism, and a false-money system ad infinitum; the other seeks to reinvorgate Hegel's notion of Spirit by ushering in a period of renewed art, philosophy, Christianity and other natural religions such as in China.

So what will happen when our globalist elites realize that Russia is going to win and expose their fake-money system once-and-for-all?

To that, there is no easy solution other than to pray that God will see it fit to spare us a nuclear holocaust. Although a Judo-enthusiast, I fear Putin does not have the moves needed to coax the west down from brinkmanship. The parents of the children which were to inherit this globo-homo paradise will not want their favored offspring to live in a world where they see only mindless toil and hardship. I am afraid they will kill all children, even theirs, to avoid this reality.

That is why that, "Only a God can save us," now.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Dec 16 2022 21:57 utc | 81

Chris 11 - Thanks for the link to the Hudson interview.

LightYearsFromHome -58

Psyops and propaganda aside, I think it is important not to underestimate the cunning and viscousness of Empire. Who would have predicted the destruction of the NS pipelines? Ukraine has put up more resistance than originally predicted and necessitated the partial mobilisation of Russia.

The ruling elites who own everything and run Empire don’t really care how many Ukrainian, European or any other bodies it takes for them to remain in power. Nuclear war is ok too for them as long as they survive. I think in any broader war, the global elite power and decision-making nodes need to be mapped and taken out before they destroy the planet.

Posted by: Moses22 | Dec 16 2022 21:58 utc | 82

Mao bs erver
"They’d better hurry because NATO are 10x the economic power and population of the Russian Federation."
What a joke ! Less than 10% of U.S. GDP is Manufacturing. The rest is Government, Welfare, Service and Medical. Just like Europe, the USA is a bag of Fiat funded inflation pretending to be a real economy. So deflate all of NATOs economies by a 90% discount factor when you try to compare them to Russia.
And what of NATO's population? Nations of parasites, armchair Deadweights and Huff and Puffers are a Liability not an Asset.
And FWIW another F35 crashed in Texas yesterday. Shouldn't be building critical military assets from Chinese parts.

Posted by: kupkee | Dec 16 2022 21:59 utc | 83

"That is why that, "Only a God can save us," now."

Then we are doomed.

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 16 2022 22:00 utc | 84

The Ukraine thread for this. Because we know much of the monetary assistance to Ukraine was being recycled back to the US.
Sam Bankman Fried’s donor list in now available. And I’m cynical enough to see why there’s been much support from the media and DNC for this guy.

BREAKING: SBF has been charged with violating campaign finance laws.
He has given $42 million to Democrats & "dark money" to Republicans.
But there hasn't been a full list of the politicians he paid.
Until now. [link in tweet]

https://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/1603757337461800967

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 16 2022 22:15 utc | 85

Posted by: michaelj72 | Dec 16 2022 21:40 utc | 78

who is the ukraine Nazi Gang?
complete ukraine society and majority of ukraine civilians re infected by the Nazi Gang Bang virus
after 8 or 10 years nazi brainwashing it is pointless trying to go and heal Ukraine people, they can only heal themselves!
But they re not healing themselves on the contrary they (civilians) re killing and torturing their brothers and sisters.
Russia cannot however show any consideration towards ukraine brainwashed nazi civilians anymore, who re merely rusophobe and bloodthirsty.
In WWII the US & UK ve recognized that that the German civilian cant heal themselves from Nazi Virus.
They ve bombed Germany back to the stone age with special focus civilian targets.
All of the sudden the german nazi citizens started to heal themselves from Nazi virus.
This is the only medicine the Nazis understand. Its not Zeldnsky and Gang bangs. No its the total Ukraine civilian population who needs a German style healing.
But instead of Russia carpet bombing Ukraine cities like Dresden, Hamburg, Beelin....the Ukro Nazis performing this Antinazi medication today with Donezk, Luhansk,....
Putin loves the enemy more than his soldiers & his people

Posted by: Ćevapčići | Dec 16 2022 22:17 utc | 86

bevin @57--

Thanks very much for those excerpts. They allow me to further mold the political nature of Putin and the Russian government in general as it provides further context to the meetings Putin holds on an almost daily basis. After his meeting with the Council for Strategic Development and National Projects, Putin held a late-night conference with the Security Council of which only this little bit was provided:

"Vladimir Putin: Today we will consider current security issues at various levels We will also talk about our interaction with our neighbors in certain and also very significant areas for us.

"Please, we have speaker Sergey Viktorovich Lavrov. Please."

For those constantly trashing Lavrov, I'll note he provides extremely important reports to this Council and is very highly respected by Putin. The bit noted IMO is loaded with potential interpretations, particularly in regards the Kosovo/Serbia situation.

But back to political ideology. I should note that historically in the USA, Russia, France, Germany, China, and other nations, those who became known as Progressives emerged from the Conservative side of the political spectrum; and, I should also add that far too many people misunderstand Classical Conservatism, which is actually holds a Progressive outlook--Don't ruin what we've already accomplished as we plan for our collective future, one that advances the power of the nation and our people. Liberalism in contrast is far more reckless in its intentions and thus its means--Embarking on wars of plunder is NOT conservative; it's decidedly Liberal--reckless--for it puts at risk all that was previously accomplished.

The above explanation shows us why Putin was very reluctant to directly wage war in Ukraine as he's clearly a Classical Conservative, yet he's also a gun ho Progressive when it comes to rejuvenating Russia and the Russian people. A huge example of Putin's scope/management of the plans for that rejuvenation was provided in the meeting he held yesterday that I preserved here and is so long it required a second part . Readers will know that I relate Putin's concern for Russia's severe demographic problem--about the same number of Russians died during the Neoliberal rapine of the 199s as died during the Great Patriotic War--and the fertility rate has yet to make a healthy recovery. So, about halfway through yesterday's meeting we're introduced to Tatyana Golikova who said the following:

Reacting to your presentation, Mr President, I wanted to report. that, aware of the sensitivity of the problem of fertility in the Russian Federation and the need for adoption additional measures, in accordance with your By instructing and instructing the Prime Minister with a large group of specialists and experts, we are implementing a project to study all the problems that are related to the effectiveness of the implementation of those measures that are related to the support of the birth rate now and, as I have already said, the need to work out additional measures.

We are divided this work into three stages. By December 25 of this year, we will prepare the so-called portrait of a woman, who wants to have a child, according to the Russian The Federation as a whole and the constituent entities of the Russian Federation. It will be based on all available statistical data, the latest data of the All-Russian Census population, information that is entered in medical birth certificates, and so on. See also public opinion.

In the second stage, until February 28, the "portrait" will be supplemented with data from pilot studies aimed at determining the impact of individual support measures on a woman's desire to have children.

Finally, the third stage. Until April 15 targeted recommendations will be generated for of all constituent entities of the Russian Federation sent to increase the birth rate, and an additional set of measures to support the birth rate has been developed. We are we will be ready to report such proposals to you, because [we] [u]nderstand that this topic is an absolute priority for achieving [the country's] national development goals. [My Emphasis]

Indeed, much is answered by this statement's as its importance can be conveyed to the great mass that don't know--Why did Putin delay? Why did Putin use such a small force? and so forth. We read yesterday of the Ukie general saying he had to husband his forces in an attempt to form some reserves. Well, guess what? Despite Russia's population, Putin and Russia have a similar problem, particularly if Putin and Crew correctly see Russia being at war with NATO and more specifically the Outlaw US Empire. What did I write about Conservatism above? Well, there's many answers contained within that political POV.

Does going to a full-on War footing help the situation, or are the Hawks imitating Liberals? By all means, take the required time to read yesterday's meeting and learn about Russia's strategic projects and national goals. Try to see how the sort of war now being fought must fit in with those plans. I can't do all the explaining; you must do some work to find out for yourselves. That's why I provide the info I do.

If you want to know where the new Multipolar World is heading and at what stage it's at, you must read the reports of analysts of course as they often have access to information we aren't privy to. But almost always the meeting and speeches of Putin, Xi, Modi, and others are made public so you can inform yourself and more easily interpret what the analysts are writing--Credible Secondary Sources are fine, but Primary Sources are always the best. In that respect, Russia is very open, and it amazes me the mistakes made by those in West termed analysts. It appears that they assume since the West lies all the time about most everything that Russia and China behave the same. But they don't. Sure, certain things are Classified as Secret, but the vast majority of information isn't. That's why once the Trolls are identified, they can serve as entertainment or just be ignored.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 16 2022 22:21 utc | 87

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 16 2022 19:33 utc | 58 "If Russia looses air dominance over Ukraine it is in very big trouble"

What do you mean by "air dominance"?

I wonder if the terms don't quite apply as they used to. The Russians don't appear to be flying manned aircraft over the interior of Ukraine and barely over the front lines. Likely for fear of being shot down. But unmanned aircraft, from both sides seem to be roaming the sky. Yes, at this point, Russia has more armed drones.

Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 16 2022 22:21 utc | 88

@NemesisCalling 82

There are no god thingies. They are merely the psychotic dreams of the deluding and delusional.

This is a good thing, because all the evidence available to us indicates that the universe hates life and the concept of justice. So hoping that the first documented intervention by a god thingie might be beneficial is almost certainly wildly incorrect.

OR, as Epicurus noted (and he may not have been first):

If the gods are unable to prevent evil, then they are not all-powerful.
If the gods are not willing to prevent evil, then they are not all-good.
If the gods are both willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?

Posted by: Hermit | Dec 16 2022 22:31 utc | 89

Strategic Culture skewers the Outlaw US Empire as a party to the war, "Not a Party to Conflict?… U.S. Government Media Outlet Directs Air Strikes on Crimea":

The Radio Free Europe outlet this week blatantly published satellite images of Russian military bases in Crimea and openly advocated for the Kiev regime to launch strikes. The reality is even more sobering and grim. It would not be the Kiev regime carrying out such strikes, but rather U.S., British and other NATO special forces acting as the brains and stealthy hands of the regime.

Moscow has already inveighed against NATO as being a direct participant in hostilities in Ukraine. The RFE report corroborates Russia’s claims. It is self-admission by the United States of being a party to the conflict.

The satellite images were provided by a private U.S. company called Planet Labs which has a history of working closely with the Pentagon. The images included an airbase at Dzhankoy which is described as a main logistics hub. Naval sites at Sevastopol were also listed in detail as well as purported ammunition tunnels in the surrounding mountains. Other targets included anti-aircraft positions near Feodosia on the Crimean Peninsula. From Moscow’s viewpoint, the peninsula is the sovereign territory of the Russian Federation. Yet here we have the U.S. government’s media mouthpiece giving out the coordinates and calling for air strikes on “prime targets”.

RFE is wholly owned by the U.S. government and it has a long and tawdry history of acting as a CIA conduit in Eastern Europe during the height of the Cold War. For the publication to publish targets for military attack and to advocate for such action is tantamount to Washington openly declaring itself to be director of war operations by the Kiev regime.

This role by Washington and its NATO allies has long been surmised since the conflict in Ukraine erupted in February this year. Indeed for the eight years since the coup in Kiev in 2014, the United States and its NATO partners have been weaponizing and prepping the anti-Russian regime for war, as former German Chancellor Angela Merkel recently admitted.

But since hostilities flared over the past 10 months, the United States, Britain, Poland and other NATO members have been actively involved in providing not just weapons, but training, logistics and intelligence for attacking Russian forces. It is believed that American and British advisers have been directing Ukrainian air strikes at the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant, as well as more recently on air bases deep inside Russian territory. The assassination of over a dozen senior Russian military commanders in the battlefields is also thought to be as a result of close targeting information provided by U.S. intelligence.

Talk in the Duma ought to include bombing the Pentagon and CIA campuses if they're going to talk about doing the same to UK's similar institutions. Maybe if it gets shouted loud enough and is accompanied by many obscenities, the Outlaw US Empire's Congress will actually hear it and react in some manner.

Bill Smith @89--

Why should Russia risk pilots and planes when their tasks can be accomplished in other ways? Welcome to the new way of war via robotics and AI. I'm sure the pilots would rather fly cause that's what pilots want to do. But it's clear those same pilots and their commanders have respect for Ukie's old Soviet Buks and S-300s, and now isn't the time to reach out and touch them in a more direct, riskier manner. IMO, by 2030, most piloted jets will be museum exhibits.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 16 2022 22:44 utc | 90

Posted by: moaobserver | Dec 16 2022 19:25 utc | 53

That's a very powerful statement. Presages the doom of Russia's efforts if true. Any links to go with it?
And it's mainly about what has gone. Anything to counter a contention that the new has replaced what's gone?

Posted by: abrogard | Dec 16 2022 22:49 utc | 91

Hermit 90

And if there were god thingies, Epicurus and you would have figured them all out using your five senses and reason powered by 120-140 IQ brainpower.

And here we don’t even know what Putin and Russia are planning for next month.

Posted by: Moses22 | Dec 16 2022 22:50 utc | 92

Posted by: La Bastille | Dec 16 2022 16:36 utc | 5

Patriot's would need to be protected by something else against the drones. They would be likely used for other bigger targets as the PAC 2 has a longer reach than a lot of other systems. Aircraft, for instance.

Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 16 2022 22:50 utc | 93

Readers will know that I relate Putin's concern for Russia's severe demographic problem--about the same number of Russians died during the Neoliberal rapine of the 199s as died during the Great Patriotic War...

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 16 2022 22:21 utc | 88

Where did you get that dubious information? Many Russians emigrated during the 1990s for personal safety and security. I live with one and she communicates with former classmates all over the world.

Population of Russia 1992 = 148.3 million
Population of Russia 2002 = 145.2 million
Population of Russia 2009 = 142.7 million (modern low)

https://tass.com/society/1041670

Note that almost all countries now have birth rates below replacement rates and would have gradual population declines except for people living longer and immigration.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 16 2022 22:55 utc | 94

@92;

Russian army lacks in satellite intel, secure and fast c&c, drones, pgms.

China could help with all of these.

I don’t trust putinists to be anything other than useless criminal grifters.

Thus China will need to clean out the Aegean stables.

Posted by: Moaobserver | Dec 16 2022 22:57 utc | 95

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 16 2022 22:44 utc | 91

Agree with a lot of that last paragraph. I think though some of those tasks aren't accomplished quite a well with unmanned platforms as they would be with manned platforms. (Assuming they survive long enough to do it.) The ability of unmanned platforms will certainly increase, towards that of manned ones, as you suggest, within a decade or so.

Maybe "air dominance" just means the ability for your strikes to get though. So both sides in a conflict, could in theory have 'air dominance"?

Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 16 2022 22:57 utc | 96

abrogard 92
moaobserver 53

Yes, indeed. The ‘Russia-is-a-gas station-masquerading-as-a-country trope’.

It would appear the West is running out of not only military equipment but original psyops material as well.

Posted by: Moses22 | Dec 16 2022 23:00 utc | 97

Karlof1 ( Dec 16 2022 16:46 utc | 9 ) wrote:

How many barflies can clearly see the contradiction in the following statement:

"Pentagon Claims US Not Seeking Conflict With Russia, Focused on Providing Help to Ukraine"

I sure can.

Why aren't they embarrassed? Whats wrong with them? I wrote about it in general terms on the non-Ukraine thread.

In a sense I guess it doesn't matter: they are doomed anyway.

· · ·

LightYearsFromHome ( Dec 16 2022 19:33 utc | 58 ) wrote:

"It's all one concerted effort and something very big is up."
Maybe.

The Russians will know.

· · ·

And for those who may need it (a certain someone does!): most Russians do not comment or debate in English and those that do are not representative! :D

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 16 2022 23:03 utc | 98

TASS today --

"On Thursday morning, Donetsk came under the strongest bombardment ever since 2014.
A total of 40 MLRS rockets crashed on the Voroshilovsky and Kievsky districts. . ."

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Dec 16 2022 23:07 utc | 99

If the gods are unable to prevent evil, then they are not all-powerful. If the gods are not willing to prevent evil, then they are not all-good. If the gods are both willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?

Posted by: Hermit | Dec 16 2022 22:31 utc | 90

If they exist, then we exist only for their amusement. Otherwise it would be boring to exist for eternity with little to do. Should be obvious, no?

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 16 2022 23:10 utc | 100

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