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December 13, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-225
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Posted by: Down South | Dec 13 2022 14:45 utc | 1
Posted by: Down South | Dec 13 2022 14:47 utc | 2 Posted by: Down South | Dec 13 2022 14:47 utc | 2 Posted by: catdog | Dec 13 2022 15:13 utc | 3 I love re-watching old programs where the Ukraine problem is discussed because it gives one a chance to hear/see what was know and said back then and then compare it to what is going on today. Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 13 2022 15:22 utc | 4 As usual Defense Politics Asia provides a neat ongoing commentary about this conflict on censor all free speech Gaagle “YT” Thus https://www.youtube.com/@DefensePoliticsAsia Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Dec 13 2022 15:29 utc | 5 Much Ukie burger coming out of the Bakhmut meat grinder today hitting reportedly 800-1000 casualties per, only 500 on a slow day, luckily it’s mostly sprained or broken ankles from stepping in hmmm….haphazard Russian arty holes? Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 13 2022 15:36 utc | 6 “This sounds like bad news… Russia can still barely hold the line in the north, and only slowly grind forward in the south.” Posted by: Doug Hillman | Dec 13 2022 15:36 utc | 7 Re: Posted by: Down South | Dec 13 2022 14:47 utc | 2
Why not just drop them now and see how long it takes for Ukraine to repair them? Posted by: Julian | Dec 13 2022 15:42 utc | 8 To me, it is very interesting that Merkel came out now and said what she said about Minsk II. Is she the fat lady getting ready to sing? Posted by: chunga | Dec 13 2022 16:13 utc | 9 John Helmer in an interview with a Hungarian Transylvanian opposition paper gives a comprehensive view of the origins of the war in Ukraine: Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2022 16:16 utc | 10 Exsnohs…seems to be a bit of an a set piece taking shape. ZATO has enough armour and forces in place allowing them the ability to arm the Ukrainians with deep strike rockets and drones. Does Russia have an asymmetrical response? My belief, NATO running low on weapons and missiles, I’ll call bs on that. A ruse. If one looks at the armour recently placed around the theatre, useless without ammo…..duh. They got lots, don’t be fooled. The build up of Russian Belarusian forces north of Kiev is a counter force, set to react should ZATO make a move on western Ukraine. I doubt they move throughout the rest of the SMO. Should the Bachmeat Burger Factory come to a close, the orchestra will seek newer western venues. Once they’ve played the larger arenas to the banks of the Deniper, a spring tour south for some well deserved Reck n Ruin in Odessa will be in order. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 13 2022 16:24 utc | 11 Colonel McGregor has posted a 24 minute excerpt from the 3 part discussion with Michael Vlahos the other day. Some here might not have had time for a long set of videos, this segment is perfect for you and is well worth a watch. Posted by: morongobill | Dec 13 2022 16:34 utc | 12 Posted by: catdog | Dec 13 2022 15:13 utc | 3 Posted by: LuBa | Dec 13 2022 16:35 utc | 13 Time Magazine has, very appropriately, named the fascist imperial puppet Zelensky its ‘Person of the Year.” He joins luminaries such as Mussolini and Hitler in this Hall of Shame. Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2022 16:38 utc | 14 NATO forces on the ground. As I presumed …
@ bevin 13 Posted by: ? | Dec 13 2022 17:01 utc | 16 @ b | Dec 13 2022 16:58 utc | 15 Posted by: james | Dec 13 2022 17:09 utc | 17 here is the contents of the article Posted by: james | Dec 13 2022 17:11 utc | 18 I do Slavyangrad for info. I really liked the #Yuri English subtitles, but that has ceased for a bit. Anyone know another source for Yuri’s daily analysis with subtitles? Posted by: paxmark1 | Dec 13 2022 17:13 utc | 19 If the Ukrainian war has shown one thing it is that the hatred and disdain the west has for Russia is only a degree more than that they are showing for Germany and its people and that their own leaders are promoting this. Sad Posted by: mwm | Dec 13 2022 17:14 utc | 20 @ paxmark1 | Dec 13 2022 17:13 utc | 19 Posted by: james | Dec 13 2022 17:15 utc | 21 bevin @10 & 14– https://t.me/Slavyangrad/24746 Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 13 2022 17:21 utc | 23 https://t.me/Slavyangrad/24780 Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 13 2022 17:34 utc | 24 karlof1 | Dec 13 2022 17:18 utc | 22 Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Dec 13 2022 17:39 utc | 25 The piece of paper Neville Chamberlain told British voters he had signed with Hitler to assure “peace in our time” proved to be false within a year. Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Dec 13 2022 17:49 utc | 26 Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 13 2022 17:18 utc | 22 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Dec 13 2022 17:53 utc | 27 It doesn’t matter whether UK special forces, or US special forces for that matter, are “training” Ukrainians. These forces have little knowledge of combined arms operational planning on a theater level and therefore neither do the Ukrainians. They will have zero effect on the outcome of the war. Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 13 2022 18:08 utc | 28 This explains why Russia isn’t too keen on shock and awe US style. Easier, faster and cheaper to rebuild.
Posted by: Down South | Dec 13 2022 18:12 utc | 29 Just gonna note the bridge attack in Melitopal just after the hit on the barracks. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 13 2022 18:30 utc | 30 Posted by: LuBa | Dec 13 2022 16:35 utc | 13 Posted by: catdog | Dec 13 2022 18:34 utc | 31 Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 13 2022 18:30 utc | 30 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 13 2022 18:44 utc | 32 @32 Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 13 2022 18:49 utc | 33 @22 Cont’d– On Oct. 10, Putin started a campaign against the Ukrainian power grid. He launched about $5 billion worth of long-range missiles in several strikes numbering 70-100 missiles each and managed to leave parts of Ukraine without power for several hours and sometimes even days.
What then? Posted by: Kerensky | Dec 13 2022 19:19 utc | 36 One of the two bridges across the river in Melitopol was destroyed today. When the new wave of nato-trained AFU conscripts arrives I think we will see another mass offensive. If they can reach Melitopol things will be very bad. Dani @ 35: The cost of the missiles used might be $5B in the US economy, but it is nothing close to that sum in the RF. It’s just another piece of a military budget that is less than one tenth of that of the USA. Posted by: Paul Spencer | Dec 13 2022 19:26 utc | 38 @35. The air attacks include a lot of decoys to get the Ukr to waste expensive anti air missles. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 13 2022 19:26 utc | 39 Posted by: Dani | Dec 13 2022 18:54 utc | 35 @ Kerensky | Dec 13 2022 19:19 utc | 36 Posted by: whirlX | Dec 13 2022 19:30 utc | 41 @ 35 Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 13 2022 19:37 utc | 42 Posted by: james | Dec 13 2022 17:15 utc | 21 Global Times editorial speaks to Merkle’s confession, “Real intention behind Minsk agreements further destroys credibility of the West”. Key excerpt:
As I wrote above, NATO/Outlaw US Empire must be defeated and removed as obstacles to European and global peace and security. The world will have neither until that occurs. And all the troll crap in the universe can’t alter that reality. @ oldhippie | Dec 13 2022 19:37 utc | 42 Posted by: james | Dec 13 2022 20:01 utc | 45 The ukrops have millions of conscripts to burn through before they’re done. Even at a rate of 1000 a day it’s not enough. I’m afraid that we’re going to see a replay of Severodoneskt. Russia spends weeks/months frontally assaulting Ukraine’s strongest, most fortified position. Then Ukraine produces a new army and quickly captures Russia’s weakest position. @ karlof1 | Dec 13 2022 19:54 utc | 44 Posted by: whirlX | Dec 13 2022 20:02 utc | 47
Surely the US inherited their sapiential war experience from their ancestors on different continents as well. In particular “divide and rule” and “let’s you and him fight”. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 13 2022 20:05 utc | 48 I can’t figure how anyone can imagine Russia made a supposed quantum leap in technological and production advancement after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Posted by: Johnycomelately | Dec 13 2022 20:07 utc | 49 This is why I think Putin is a traitor. if, me, an internet nobody with no military training can see it, then he HAS to know his orders are insufficient. Posted by: abrogard | Dec 13 2022 20:02 utc | 46 Posted by: Richard Head | Dec 13 2022 20:13 utc | 51 Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 13 2022 20:05 utc | 48 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 13 2022 20:16 utc | 52 Much Ukie burger coming out of the Bakhmut meat grinder today hitting reportedly 800-1000 casualties per, only 500 on a slow day, luckily it’s mostly sprained or broken ankles from stepping in hmmm….haphazard Russian arty holes? Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 13 2022 18:49 utc | 33 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 13 2022 20:21 utc | 54 abrogard | Dec 13 2022 20:02 utc | 46 Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 13 2022 20:22 utc | 55 abrogard | Dec 13 2022 20:21 utc | 53 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 13 2022 20:41 utc | 56
Much of the grumbling about the Russian military I encounter comes from Strelkov. Unfortunately he’s often more intent on being sarcastic than informative. If you could reduce your Telegram reading to a handful of bullet points, what would you say are the top 5 (if you’re in the mood stretch it to 7) systemic problems in the Russian military? Posted by: Mike314159 | Dec 13 2022 20:48 utc | 57 UK admits it sent troops to Ukraine Posted by: Zanon::.. | Dec 13 2022 20:48 utc | 58 One thing I have observed in many articles and comments is a U$D value that is ascribed to either supplies, aid or in a trade off between say a Patriot and a drone. Posted by: marcjf | Dec 13 2022 20:49 utc | 59 @ karlof1 | Dec 13 2022 19:54 utc | 34 & 44
From Colonel Cassad
Posted by: La Bastille | Dec 13 2022 20:57 utc | 60 Mike314159 | Dec 13 2022 20:48 utc | 57 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 13 2022 21:07 utc | 61 Zanon::.. | Dec 13 2022 20:48 utc | 58
Posted by: ? | Dec 13 2022 21:15 utc | 62 Zanon::.. | Dec 13 2022 20:48 utc | 58 “UK can do this because they know Russia is too incompetent to find out and target these forces anyway.” Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 13 2022 21:32 utc | 63 Not sure why the Russians are dragging out the Donbass conflict so much. Posted by: nothing but the trut | Dec 13 2022 21:34 utc | 64
I spot checked a few and at least one, Horatio Gates, was a former British officer. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 13 2022 21:37 utc | 65 Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2022 16:16 utc | 10 Posted by: 600w | Dec 13 2022 21:41 utc | 66
More humiliating than being a one-trick pony? Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 13 2022 21:47 utc | 67 La Bastille @60– @ Opport Knocks | Dec 13 2022 21:37 utc | 65 Posted by: John Kennard | Dec 13 2022 22:17 utc | 69 Paul Greenwood @26 You are saying exactly what I posted, within the last 3 days, on this blog. I am not at all confused. The point about Disraeli -Der Alte Juden- returning with “Peace with Honour-Peace in our Time” from the Berlin Congress was made by me. Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2022 22:53 utc | 70 Opport Knocks@65 Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2022 22:58 utc | 71 re mine@70 Paul Greenwood Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2022 23:05 utc | 72 Ukro Teleportapotty @ Dec 13 2022 20:07 utc | 49
Posted by: Laurence | Dec 13 2022 23:07 utc | 73 karlof1@34 Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2022 23:14 utc | 74 600w | Dec 13 2022 21:41 utc | 66 Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2022 23:17 utc | 75 Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2022 16:16 utc | 10 Posted by: CM of Berlin | Dec 13 2022 23:25 utc | 76 bevin @74– For: Johnycomelately | Dec 13 2022 20:07 utc | 49 Posted by: logosApplied | Dec 13 2022 23:56 utc | 78 Patrick Lawrence at Consortium News on his (not my) assessment of the Merkel interviews last week. Significantly he quotes this blog “a German publication” for B’s reaction to the news. Posted by: bevin | Dec 14 2022 0:08 utc | 79 Dani | Dec 13 2022 18:54 utc | 35 Posted by: Doug Hillman | Dec 14 2022 0:26 utc | 80 Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 13 2022 21:37 utc | 65 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 14 2022 1:05 utc | 81
The War of 1812-14, the White House was burned down as I recall. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 14 2022 1:29 utc | 82 I’m not going to look it up, but a commenter on the previous Ukraine open thread was going on about how inaccurate the Russian artillery is and that the targeted areas are pockmarked with craters.
Thanks to the poster who linked to this site, or perhaps to an intermediary such as Larry Johnson or Mike Whitney. Posted by: jonku | Dec 14 2022 1:43 utc | 83 Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 13 2022 18:30 utc | 30 Posted by: Ćevapčići | Dec 14 2022 1:52 utc | 84 The Texas Revolution had significant participation of American troops and led to annexation and then the Mexican-American War of 1846-48. Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 14 2022 2:12 utc | 85 Posted by: marcjf | Dec 13 2022 20:49 utc | 59 Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 14 2022 2:24 utc | 86 They [the Russians] should disable all the crossings on the Dnieper using hypersonics and use air power to destroy the supply convoys crossing the Dnieper. Posted by: Ed | Dec 14 2022 2:36 utc | 87 Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 13 2022 18:30 utc | 30 Posted by: Ćevapčići | Dec 14 2022 4:23 utc | 88
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/24860 Posted by: Down South | Dec 14 2022 5:03 utc | 89 Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 14 2022 1:29 utc | 82 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 14 2022 5:06 utc | 90 Posted by: Mike314159 | Dec 13 2022 20:48 utc | 57 In 1846, Mexico was brutally attacked by US forces under the direction of President Polk who wanted to expand the Slave territory as was D-Party policy. The invasion took place after a False Flag attack that actually occurred on Mexican territory. Mexico lost 1/2–50%–of its territory and trillions worth of resources in what was a deliberate war of aggression for Plunder. The Texas Revolution also has a big share of problems and might be termed the first Color Revolution literally since the Texanos main gripe was the inability under Mexican law to import slaves. So, Texas and the Mexican War were both fought to expand the Slavocracy, which later contributed in large fashion to the US Civil War. And Mexico was never compensated for its massive losses. So, it gets payback by sending immigrants into what was its lands. This is why I think Putin is a traitor. if, me, an internet nobody with no military training can see it, then he HAS to know his orders are insufficient. Posted by: MiniMo | Dec 14 2022 5:41 utc | 93 Brian Berletic’s takedown of the US Patriot AD system, now apparently being considered for actual deployment to Ukraine according to CNN, is excellent.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 14 2022 6:09 utc | 94 Listening to The Duran live video today. Mercouris again asks why is Ukraine sending troops over and over into an indefensible line in Donbass. Brian Berletic tells him the same thing I think: where else does Ukraine have the ability to defend? Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 14 2022 6:57 utc | 95 Posted by: Dani | Dec 13 2022 18:54 utc | 35
Based upon the above, also the demands and push for air defences – now including Patriot systems – and the visible blackouts in Ukraine (satellite imagery), it seems the attacks on the power grid are both justified and successful. Posted by: Richard Head | Dec 14 2022 7:06 utc | 96 Richard Steven Hack | Dec 14 2022 6:57 utc | 95 Posted by: rk | Dec 14 2022 8:12 utc | 97 Canada To Provide $115 M To Power Kiev Grift Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 14 2022 8:54 utc | 98 @Paul Greenwood 26 Posted by: Hermit | Dec 14 2022 8:55 utc | 99 Anyone using the word “embarrassment” is an absolute troll. The Russians are fighting against a massive army with endless money and weapons. Posted by: OohCanada | Dec 14 2022 9:42 utc | 100 |
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