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December 12, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-224
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 18:21 utc | 1 Video of the above mentioned appeal with English subtitles Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 18:24 utc | 2
https://t.me/azmilitary11/30716 Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 18:27 utc | 3 Just as I supposed: @karlof1 | Dec 12 2022 18:31 utc | 4 Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 12 2022 18:49 utc | 5 It is always funny to see someone take McGregor seriously. Last time he was reporting about gunbattles between CIA and US SOF in Cologne. Posted by: Fnord73 | Dec 12 2022 19:11 utc | 6 Damn those guys in AFU are getting plounded. I gotta say that when I look at those videos, I feel a twinge of sympathy. They are literally being sent to die, and nothing else. There is no way they are going to stop a wall of artillery. No way they will be in any condition to fight after higher that 50% casualties. If they pop one of at the recon force, it’s back to square one with the bombardment. Seriously the best they can hope for is detention as a POW. Posted by: Chevrus | Dec 12 2022 19:12 utc | 7 Col Mcgreggor has been consistent and logical in this matter. Of course we should all listen to wim especially because he calls for peace. Posted by: Comandante | Dec 12 2022 19:21 utc | 8 Reposting from the previous thread. Maybe this had been posted before. This is a Link (Twitter with vid) of Zelensky saying something in 2014. I thought only NATO officebearers could be so vacuous, I did not think Zelensky could be so vacuous. This Zel person is now only Zelen-‘sacrifice ordinary ukrainian folk’-sky. Posted by: gingling | Dec 12 2022 19:21 utc | 9
Hmmm… supports my theory that Crooke is using a protégé or assistant to do his research and first drafts and then refining them (or not) for publication. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 12 2022 19:33 utc | 10 @ Posted by: gingling | Dec 12 2022 19:21 utc | 9 Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 12 2022 19:36 utc | 11 Hi Posted by: Jordi | Dec 12 2022 19:40 utc | 12 Posted by: Comandante | Dec 12 2022 19:21 utc | 8 Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 19:41 utc | 13 «“Realpolitik Tentacles Seize and Squeeze the Mid-East”, which is actually about the EU, and “The U.S. Cuckoo in the European Nest”» Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 20:06 utc | 14 There must be some brass in the Pentagon who quietly agree with McGregor completely. His recent discussion with Vlahos was full of intelligent commentary on the military side of things even if it avoided tackling the financial and economic basis for the conflict. He hails from an era when top soldiers were also intellectuals, warriors who had contempt for politics and scorn for wealth owning few possessions beyond a small but cherished classical library (Homer, Herodotus, Thucydides, Sallust, Plutarch, Caesar’s Commentaries, Marcus Aurelius, some histories and edifying novels). Men of words few but wise, who modelled themselves on Cincinnatus, the Scipiones or Cato the Elder, men of counsel as well as courage. They serve the city not the interests of a clique. McGregor strikes me as that kind of man, a man of honour and plain speaking. We need men like this at this hour when all around us are vultures, carpet-baggers and grifting showmen… Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 12 2022 20:07 utc | 15 Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 19:41 utc | 13 Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 20:09 utc | 16 Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 20:09 utc | 16 Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 20:17 utc | 17 First let’s vote on the most useful military expert: Macgregor or Fnord73 @6? Posted by: bevin | Dec 12 2022 20:18 utc | 18 Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 20:09 utc | 16 Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 12 2022 20:21 utc | 19 Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 19:41 utc | 13 Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 20:21 utc | 20 Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 20:21 utc | 20 Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 20:28 utc | 21 There is a recent Financial Times article on Bakhmut that says this: Posted by: The Scots bloke | Dec 12 2022 20:29 utc | 22 Down South, Posted by: UNC1715 | Dec 12 2022 20:40 utc | 23 Posted by: bevin | Dec 12 2022 20:18 utc | 18
I very much appreciate your posts. Posted by: Paco | Dec 12 2022 20:41 utc | 24 Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 18:27 utc | 3 | 2 | 1 Posted by: spare_truth | Dec 12 2022 20:41 utc | 25 MacGregor, Larry Johnson, Scott Ritter….. The rollcall is long and extends across decades and generations. Posted by: Ed | Dec 12 2022 20:41 utc | 26 MacGregor, Larry Johnson, Scott Ritter….. the rollcall is long and extends across decades and generations. Posted by: K | Dec 12 2022 20:43 utc | 27 Posted by: The Scots bloke | Dec 12 2022 20:29 utc | 22 Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 12 2022 20:48 utc | 28 It is always funny to see someone take McGregor seriously. Last time he was reporting about gunbattles between CIA and US SOF in Cologne. Posted by: Ed | Dec 12 2022 20:50 utc | 29 Like I said- I like him and support him now, but he is not a saint, and may have sung from a different hymn-book if he was still in power. Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 20:52 utc | 30 Another question for the bar, what’s with the lion logo on the Brave browser, it gives me the creeps. it was also a prominent logo used by one of the groups who organised the covid protests in Australia. They seemed to be US funded Christians. Is Brave some kind of patriot freedom symbol ? I downloadedBrave on someone’s recommendation here as it supposedly blocks tracking. Posted by: K | Dec 12 2022 20:53 utc | 31
To paraphrase a famous quote: “It is difficult to get a man to imagine something when his salary depends on him not imagining it”. The good news is Khodorkovsky will be long dead before Crimea is resolved to his satisfaction. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 12 2022 20:54 utc | 32 @18 Posted by: rk | Dec 12 2022 20:55 utc | 33 «a recent Financial Times article on Bakhmut that says this: […] Now is it just me that thinks this is very unlikely? I.e., made up for the credulous reporter or even invented by them. It reads like an account of WWII» Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 21:02 utc | 34 “…any normal person would be a guilt and remorse filled drug addict at the very least, if even still alive, like many many military vets, but no these types are cool calm and collected like the psychopaths they are.” Posted by: Ed | Dec 12 2022 21:05 utc | 35 Euronews headline 12/12/2022: Posted by: krypton | Dec 12 2022 21:09 utc | 36 Euronews headline 12/12/2022: Posted by: krypton | Dec 12 2022 21:09 utc | 37 @Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 20:06 utc | 14 Acc.to ‘news-front.info’ – Daily Casualties in Donetzk City: Posted by: spare_truth | Dec 12 2022 21:12 utc | 39 K | Dec 12 2022 20:53 utc | 31 Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 21:12 utc | 40 Yotube is no longer translating automatically generated subtitles, I follow the channels that talk about the war in Ukraine, Alexander Mercurios, Brian Berletic, Andrei Martyanov, Scott Ritter, Douglas Macgregor etc. Posted by: Rodolfo Machado | Dec 12 2022 21:14 utc | 41 Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 20:21 utc | 20 Posted by: Ed | Dec 12 2022 21:20 utc | 42 «There is a recent Financial Times article on Bakhmut that says this:» Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 21:24 utc | 43 Today’s notable headlines: Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 12 2022 21:24 utc | 44 Wagner Group seems to be rising to notice USA’s agitprop accounts. From the 10W30-oleaginous John Feffer (permanent Monday Ukraine-expert on KPFA with Brian Edwards-Tiekert) we hear that not all the Nazis in this conflict are those of Ukraine’s Azov Battalion, as Russia employs this Wagner Group, which has also been linked to Nazis. This is the first time those imperial apologists have ever mentioned the little problem with Ukranian Nazis, btw, but anyhow — the default peacenick-pretense (richly exemplified by Feffer & Edwards-Tiekert) is that USA may be a terrible Nazi empire, but there are also other terrible Nazi empires… essentially equating Russia’s defense of security perimeters to expansionism. Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 12 2022 21:25 utc | 45 Paco@24 Thank you for putting my post into better perspective. We are all-well, most of us- learning here. Any merit in my posts reflects the collective wisdom. Posted by: bevin | Dec 12 2022 21:25 utc | 46 The UK can supply Ukraine with long-range weapons if Russia violates the Geneva Conventions.”- UK Ministry of Defense Ben Wallace,Deutsche Welle Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 21:26 utc | 47 Serbia is in big trouble. Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 21:26 utc | 48 “I suppose that if McGregor were just a bit more pro Kiev, you might take him a little more seriously: What say you Fnord?” Posted by: Fnord73 | Dec 12 2022 21:27 utc | 49 Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 12 2022 18:31 utc | 4 Posted by: juliania | Dec 12 2022 21:28 utc | 50 @karlof1 (4) Posted by: Rob | Dec 12 2022 21:30 utc | 51 In Melitopol a bridge was seriously damaged tonight. Not by missiles, just many explosives. Donetsk had its daily dose of destruction too. Germany opened a weapons repair factory near Ukr border and Czech rep. will hire thousands of workers from Ukr for weapons manufacture. Posted by: Ed | Dec 12 2022 21:31 utc | 52 Posted by: krypton | Dec 12 2022 21:09 utc | 37 Posted by: watcher | Dec 12 2022 21:32 utc | 53 No, not at all, he would still be insane. That whole Jade Helm-style fantasy he ran during the US elections was genuinely batshit crazy. Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 21:35 utc | 54 Posted by: Roger | Dec 12 2022 21:12 utc | 38 Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 21:37 utc | 55 Aleph_Null | Dec 12 2022 21:25 utc | 44 Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 21:37 utc | 56 @ K 31. Lions by default are not brave as they usually hunt in packs unlike Tigers which are solitary predators. I used to work with a former Zoo keeper that (through his own fault) had been seized by a Lion and gripped by his shoulder and neck. He was saved by another keeper who drove it off using a fire extinguisher. I asked him about the experience and he said the Lion had terribly bad breath. The Brave browser btw is excellent for watching YouTube and does prevent add interruptions. Posted by: Raumati | Dec 12 2022 21:44 utc | 57 «[_]elensky. […] is responsible for the death of over a 100,000 Ukies and civilians as well.» Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 21:46 utc | 58 @ Melaleuca Posted by: T S | Dec 12 2022 21:48 utc | 59 Rob | Dec 12 2022 21:30 utc | 50 Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 21:48 utc | 60 Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 21:37 utc | 55 Posted by: Ed | Dec 12 2022 21:53 utc | 61 Sometimes a lionshead is just a lions head. Posted by: K | Dec 12 2022 21:57 utc | 62 Posted by: Comandante | Dec 12 2022 19:21 utc | 8 Posted by: dust | Dec 12 2022 21:59 utc | 63 GDP-per-head Posted by: too scents | Dec 12 2022 22:04 utc | 64 Some ‘news-front’ reports from DNR claims about 80 civilians died per last week by UKR shelling in Donetzk City. Posted by: spare_truth | Dec 12 2022 22:10 utc | 65 @ Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 21:37 utc | 55 Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 12 2022 22:12 utc | 66 «Stay away from Schoppenhauer then.» Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 22:15 utc | 67 «[Z]elensky. […] is responsible for the death of over a 100,000 Ukies and civilians as well.» Posted by: Ed | Dec 12 2022 22:16 utc | 68 K | Dec 12 2022 21:57 utc | 61 Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 22:17 utc | 69 Ed | Dec 12 2022 21:53 utc | 60
watcher | Dec 12 2022 21:32 utc | 52 Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 22:18 utc | 70 bevin | Dec 12 2022 20:18 utc | 18
Not possible. We Germans have been informed on state TV by Florence Gaub, deputy chairwomen of the Institute for Security Studies of the European Union and consultant of the European Council that Russians are Asians: “…I believe we must not forget that, even though Russians look European, they are not Europeans in the cultural sense…”. She continued explaining that Russians don’t have this [European] liberal, post-modern understanding of life and therefore they cope differently with the fact that people die, including themselves. [Hence they wage wars, regardless of the victims on either side]. Posted by: OttoE | Dec 12 2022 22:21 utc | 71 So. As UK can claim contravention at any time… does this mean UK is prepping to send long range weapons, ? Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 12 2022 22:22 utc | 72 Klot-Shot rant.. [make it good] Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 22:27 utc | 73 Peter AU1 | Dec 12 2022 22:22 utc | 71 Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 22:30 utc | 74 I am not that paranoid as I am a tiny fish swimming in a huge school in a massive ocean so anything is OK by me. Posted by: K | Dec 12 2022 22:37 utc | 75 @64; Posted by: Moaobserver | Dec 12 2022 22:38 utc | 76 When a guy leads with “Yuri’s pronouns are: build/tanks…” Posted by: Et Tu | Dec 12 2022 22:39 utc | 77 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 12 2022 22:22 utc | 71
Who will “Try and make act rashly” .. to go US in a deeper state – that now? Posted by: spare_truth | Dec 12 2022 22:39 utc | 78 I’m interested in people’s thoughts on this question. Posted by: Julian | Dec 12 2022 22:41 utc | 79 @ Kalof1 Post 4
Yesterday Ms. Yellen, with her wallet of mouse-click dollars, said US Aid to Ukraine Can Go on ‘As Long as It Takes’ Posted by: Likklemore | Dec 12 2022 22:43 utc | 80 UK needs to try and break Russia’s systematic approach to maximizing Ukraine attrition rate. Try and make Russia act rashly or in a way that will draw the US in deeper. Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 12 2022 22:48 utc | 81 Aleph_Null | Dec 12 2022 21:25 utc | 44 + 65 Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 22:51 utc | 82 You need to learn to avoid the muppets who like to hang out on this site and spread their western-inspired bullshit. rk, Moaobserver and Ed Tu are three I avoid as they are obvious numpties with no life. Posted by: MisterPete | Dec 12 2022 22:53 utc | 83 Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 20:52 utc | 30 Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 22:57 utc | 84 bevin @45– To those of you intellectually substandard, characterless bumpkins criticising MacGregor, I suggest you lose 150 pounds, get off your basement bed, and do something with your life. Maybe, if you don’t wind up a homeless dreg, you might be entitled to an opinion, but not much of one. Posted by: HOGGY | Dec 12 2022 23:03 utc | 86 When do people here think the much vaunted Russian Winter Offensive will begin? Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 12 2022 23:03 utc | 87 “ Re your point re Macgregor. I am following him ATM as he’s talking “sense”. Posted by: dust | Dec 12 2022 23:06 utc | 88 Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 12 2022 22:48 utc | 80
Note, the UK has nothing to decide anyway within NATO to go ahead for whatever (nuclear war, etc.), neither Mr. Stoltenberg (Norwegian master of desaster) has to do – believe that. Posted by: spare_truth | Dec 12 2022 23:06 utc | 89 Why? Hubris? Pleonexia? Because they have nothing better to do? Stupidity? Or is the irrationality of Racism and related belief in one’s own Exceptionalism driving those who say they’re in charge? Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 12 2022 23:15 utc | 90 Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 22:27 utc | 72 Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 23:16 utc | 91 @Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 21:37 utc | 54 Re Colonel Macgregor: I’m an anarchist. I don’t like soldiers of a national army (including myself when I was in the Army for three years from 1967-1970.) That experience made me learn what national armies were all about. Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 12 2022 23:25 utc | 93 My wife has convinced me that Putin is really sick after all. It actually explains a lot, including what’s going on in Kosovo now. I think this augers well for a peace agreement. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 12 2022 23:25 utc | 94 @ et.al & Posted by: Forest | Dec 12 2022 23:27 utc | 95 People see Putin as a crypto communist and real anti imperialist resistance figure. ” I see him as Putin2.. an inert insert, as are MbS2, JB2-8, HC2 etc. Posted by: Thomas Turk | Dec 12 2022 23:29 utc | 96 Hey – remember @1,2,3 that ^^ above item today (just seems the only “info” today yet ..). Posted by: spare_truth | Dec 12 2022 23:31 utc | 97 Likklemore @79–
And the second grows from the first and clearly went well over poor Rob’s tiny brain:
And that brings us to the attempt to escalate in Kosovo, which I’ve commented upon at the open thread. The mindset being utilized by those Biden fronts for we’ve seen previously–those of Hitler’s 1942 Germany just before the loss of the Battle for Moscow. NATO has lost, the European component at least, but has yet to admit that truism to itself. The 5-Eyes could try to continue, but their defeat is there for anyone with an open mind to see. Those deeply steeped in Empire propaganda will have to deal with conniption fits as reality crashes their party. The Rest of World will celebrate as Dollar and US Hegemony dies and the Age of Plunder officially ends. The West’s biggest nightmare is that Russia drags this out for many years. Doing so will destroy the EU’s and NATO’s reputation for peace and economic prosperity. Posted by: Augustus Caesar | Dec 12 2022 23:36 utc | 100 |
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