Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 12, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-224

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Comments

‼️🇺🇦🏴‍☠️70% of the company killed or wounded: paratroopers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine recorded a panic appeal
“We are passing this appeal to the command of the landing troops and the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the 3rd airmobile company of a separate airmobile battalion of the 25th Secheslav airmobile brigade.
We were sent to carry out a combat mission to hold individual combat positions. We did not receive proper weapons and artillery support. As a result, 70% of the company was killed or wounded. We did not have and do not have military equipment and proper weapons. We didn’t even have equipment for evacuating the wounded, which is why several of the wounded did not survive.
We spent more than a month in the trenches, transmitting coordinates on which the artillery never fired. The platoon sergeants fled their positions in the early days, and were transferred by Chief of Staff Kipinach, now serving as battalion commander.
We demand the transfer of the entire unit.”

https://t.me/RVvoenkor/33802

Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 18:21 utc | 1

Video of the above mentioned appeal with English subtitles
https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1602357943239938062

Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 18:24 utc | 2

According to the Military Chronicle, the 79th Airborne Assault Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, stationed in Maryinka, lost the possibility of supply.
On December 8, the leadership of the brigade reported to the headquarters of the Vostok command that the RF Armed Forces had taken Geological Street, the road from the city that leads to neighboring Krasnogorovka, under fire control.
The road is under fire from Russian long-range artillery – self-propelled guns “Msta-S” and “Hyacinth-S” caliber 152 mm. In addition, it is controlled by drones and helicopters of the army aviation of the RF Armed Forces.
It was from the neighboring Krasnogorovka that the brigade received ammunition, as well as reinforcements in manpower. Without this, she risks being surrounded and completely destroyed. Any attempts by the Armed Forces of Ukraine to transfer reinforcements to Marinka will now be fraught with the risk of losses.
At the end of November, units of the 79th brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were pushed back to the area of \u200b\u200bthe gas facilities of Maryinka. Then they lost control of their positions in the area of the tire repair plant and the Nikolsky elevator in the southwestern part of the city.
Also, during the offensive of the Russian forces on Maryinka, fire control was established in the area of the ATP 11420 motor transport enterprise and over the fork in the O-0530 highway, which deprives the Armed Forces of Ukraine of the opportunity to effectively counterattack the RF Armed Forces.

https://t.me/azmilitary11/30716

Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 18:27 utc | 3

Just as I supposed:
I was waiting for b to open a new Ukraine thread before writing this comment. As happens every week, Alastair Crooke has a “warm-up” column published at al-Mayadeen which is then followed by a more polished effort that’s published by Strategic Culture Foundation. The same is true this week, “Realpolitik Tentacles Seize and Squeeze the Mid-East”, which is actually about the EU, and “The U.S. Cuckoo in the European Nest”, which is quite apt. I do suggest reading them in order of publication to see the shift in Crooke’s thinking about the overall issue(s). I’ll not post any excerpts and thus deprive readers of the pleasure of reading Crooke’s elegant prose and structure clearly visible in the longer essay. I will say that Crooke’s main point is Europe is hostage to the Outlaw US Empire’s policy and as he says it has “no agency”, thus the picture at the column’s header. I’m reminded of the fable about the Pied Piper, although this version’s twist sees the Empire leading Europeans off a cliff like so many lemmings as EU “leaders” shoo them of into the abyss.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 12 2022 18:31 utc | 4

@karlof1 | Dec 12 2022 18:31 utc | 4
. . . the EU’s fanatical support for Kiev. . .etc
Again, what Crooke is missing is that the very existence of an illegal organization, EU, is the principal problem. The UN Charter speaks of sovereign nations, not an unelected EU Ursula doing her illegal warmongering.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 12 2022 18:49 utc | 5

It is always funny to see someone take McGregor seriously. Last time he was reporting about gunbattles between CIA and US SOF in Cologne.

Posted by: Fnord73 | Dec 12 2022 19:11 utc | 6

Damn those guys in AFU are getting plounded. I gotta say that when I look at those videos, I feel a twinge of sympathy. They are literally being sent to die, and nothing else. There is no way they are going to stop a wall of artillery. No way they will be in any condition to fight after higher that 50% casualties. If they pop one of at the recon force, it’s back to square one with the bombardment. Seriously the best they can hope for is detention as a POW.

Posted by: Chevrus | Dec 12 2022 19:12 utc | 7

Col Mcgreggor has been consistent and logical in this matter. Of course we should all listen to wim especially because he calls for peace.
Lets take a look at Western media om the other hand in this matter:
– ghost of kiev is real
– russia will run out of tanks in April
– russia ran out of missiles and is now shooting S300s
– putin has Parkinsons
– putin has advanced cancer and just pooped himself
Blah blah blah
Id takea Mcgreggor interview over Lamestream Western media 7 days a week and twice on Sundays.

Posted by: Comandante | Dec 12 2022 19:21 utc | 8

Reposting from the previous thread. Maybe this had been posted before. This is a Link (Twitter with vid) of Zelensky saying something in 2014. I thought only NATO officebearers could be so vacuous, I did not think Zelensky could be so vacuous. This Zel person is now only Zelen-‘sacrifice ordinary ukrainian folk’-sky.

Posted by: gingling | Dec 12 2022 19:21 utc | 9

As happens every week, Alastair Crooke has a “warm-up” column published at al-Mayadeen which is then followed by a more polished effort that’s published by Strategic Culture Foundation….
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 12 2022 18:31 utc | 4

Hmmm… supports my theory that Crooke is using a protégé or assistant to do his research and first drafts and then refining them (or not) for publication. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 12 2022 19:33 utc | 10

@ Posted by: gingling | Dec 12 2022 19:21 utc | 9
Your link is to wikileaks not twitter 😉
BTW has anyone else noticed that Wikileaks search no longer works?

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 12 2022 19:36 utc | 11

Hi
Is it me or the telegram channel “Intel Slava Z” has been down for 2 days ?

Posted by: Jordi | Dec 12 2022 19:40 utc | 12

Posted by: Comandante | Dec 12 2022 19:21 utc | 8
I like him a lot , and appreciate his call for peace. Nevertheless, I am still angry with him for destroying Yugoslavia. You do know he did all the planning for the bombing etc of Yugoslavia, right? Never said sorry for it ; unleashing blatant American lawlessness, Exceptionalism ,and jihadi terror on the world.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 19:41 utc | 13

«“Realpolitik Tentacles Seize and Squeeze the Mid-East”, which is actually about the EU, and “The U.S. Cuckoo in the European Nest”»
I think that both Mearsheimer and Cooke minsunderstand the USA strategists: I guess that in their view there are neither two enemy superpowers nor a single fight against both enemy superpowers, but a single enemy superpower, the PRC (the RF being a mere regional power in USA strategist eyes), but two distinct fights, a small and short (6-12 years) one against the RF to surround the PRC and a big and long one (15-30 years) one against the PRC itself.
In terms of GDP and population the RF is not even in the same rank as the EU, never mind the USA or the PRC, even if the resources (land and what’s under it) and the military of the RF mean it can to some extent “punch above its weight” (as once was said, quite delusionally, of England).
And that’s why the USA are using the ukranians fascists, as once they were using the afghan theocrats, to wage a proxy war against the RF with the goal not of defeating it, but of weakening it to achieve regime change.

Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 20:06 utc | 14

There must be some brass in the Pentagon who quietly agree with McGregor completely. His recent discussion with Vlahos was full of intelligent commentary on the military side of things even if it avoided tackling the financial and economic basis for the conflict. He hails from an era when top soldiers were also intellectuals, warriors who had contempt for politics and scorn for wealth owning few possessions beyond a small but cherished classical library (Homer, Herodotus, Thucydides, Sallust, Plutarch, Caesar’s Commentaries, Marcus Aurelius, some histories and edifying novels). Men of words few but wise, who modelled themselves on Cincinnatus, the Scipiones or Cato the Elder, men of counsel as well as courage. They serve the city not the interests of a clique. McGregor strikes me as that kind of man, a man of honour and plain speaking. We need men like this at this hour when all around us are vultures, carpet-baggers and grifting showmen…

Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 12 2022 20:07 utc | 15

Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 19:41 utc | 13
McGregor was a soldier. Soldiers kill and destroy. That is their function.
Douglas MacGregor was a good soldier.
Such Is Life

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 20:09 utc | 16

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 20:09 utc | 16
Yes and no. There are shades of grey. There are good soldiers who fight and kill to protect home and hearth ,and there are others that are gung-ho ,and just love killing and fighting in their country’s shitty expeditionary wars. I draw exceptions, and dislike even my country’s troops who brought dishonour to us by abusing cadavers etc.
Like I said- I like him and support him now, but he is not a saint, and may have sung from a different hymn-book if he was still in power.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 20:17 utc | 17

First let’s vote on the most useful military expert: Macgregor or Fnord73 @6?
Regarding Crooke’s latest piece, which is very good and confirms us in what we have already learned…and some. One thing that he doesn’t mention, and is barely worth mentioning, is that US policy tells us what sort of regime change they want in Moscow.
And the answer is that they want a racist, anti-Asian government that will break off contacts with the “inferior” Asians and ‘return’ to that Palace of Culture and decency Europe, where the white people live.
Navalny was a perfect candidate.
The expansion of NATO to Sweden and Finland was a sort of rounding off of NATO into an all-white alliance, a process which not accidentally seems to be designed to force Turkiye out.
People like Biden, even though they rely for election on black party bosses, owe their political careers to racist politics-anti-busing, ‘crime legislation’, anti-welfare measures. They owe everything that they have achieved to the cunning use of race politics- it is no accident that both Arkansas and even Delaware are border southern states.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 12 2022 20:18 utc | 18

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 20:09 utc | 16
Quite right, and he doesn’t shrink from it. The disconnect between what a warrior does and the justice of a war is precisely where the tragedy of conflict emerges. It is, after all, one of the Iliad’s great themes.

Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 12 2022 20:21 utc | 19

Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 19:41 utc | 13
>… MacGregor, destroyed Yugoslavia.…
Yep. And his role in destruction of Iraq.
The reason any of these guys know what they are talking about…. is their personal experience.
Some of them present as Good Guys now.
But a direct line can be drawn from what they did when in Service to where we are now: Ukrainians being killed at industrial levels daily.
There’s a trail of blood, death and despair across the planet and each of them personally contributed.
MacGregor, Larry Johnson, Scott Ritter….. the rollcall is long and extends across decades and generations.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 20:21 utc | 20

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 20:21 utc | 20
Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 12 2022 20:21 utc | 19
Yes, indeed and there lies the rub ; to comport yourself in war so as to be a good effective soldier , and still remain an honourable person who can sleep at night , and be respected by all and sundry .

Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 20:28 utc | 21

There is a recent Financial Times article on Bakhmut that says this:
<< Rockets and mortars rained down on Ukrainian military positions on the eastern edge of the city of Bakhmut, spraying shrapnel and sending troops diving for cover. Then came the Russian infantry, charging in a first world war-style attack across a no man’s land of shredded trees and artillery craters. The Ukrainians popped up and mowed down many of them with machine guns and grenade launchers. Moments later, the scenes were repeated — although this time the Russian fighters had to navigate their comrades’ bodies. Again many were cut down by Ukrainian bullets. “It’s like a conveyor belt,” Kostyantyn, an exhausted Ukrainian machine-gunner who described the scene to the Financial Times, said of the Russian tactics. “For what? A fucking metre of our land.” >>
Now is it just me that thinks this is very unlikely? I.e., made up for the credulous reporter or even invented by them. It reads like an account of WWII and it flies in the face of all the videos I’ve seen on actual battle footage of RF forces. None even suggest the stupidity of charging WWI-style. Hence, it doesn’t pass the smell test IMHO.
The Scots bloke

Posted by: The Scots bloke | Dec 12 2022 20:29 utc | 22

Down South,
In respect to the location of the troops who have made the appeal, that would be very difficult to determine. However, according to the Ukraine military deployment map,
(https://militaryland.net/maps/deployment-map/),
the deployment symbol for the 25th Secheslav Airmobile Brigade is north of Lyman, 28 kilometers due west of Krasnorichenske (which is itself just on the western edge of Lugansk territory. So these Ukrainian troops must have been fighting Russians in the southern part of the Kharhov sector of the frontline.

Posted by: UNC1715 | Dec 12 2022 20:40 utc | 23

Posted by: bevin | Dec 12 2022 20:18 utc | 18
They have a full roster besides Navalny, there is Khodor with the added value of a second passport from the promised land. Imagine a citizen of the US arguing that Alaska is not the US but Russia, which in a lot of ways it still is. This is the concluding paragraph of an article in Bezos blog.

“The question of Crimea, which I thought before the war would take decades to resolve, today is unambiguous,” said Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the former Russian oil tycoon and longtime Putin critic. “It is difficult to imagine a real end to the war without the return of Crimea to Ukraine.”

I very much appreciate your posts.

Posted by: Paco | Dec 12 2022 20:41 utc | 24

Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 18:27 utc | 3 | 2 | 1
Thanks for @1,2,3 – that’s contribution to current facts:
As written on top ^^ of this UKR-comment section, if starting any ‘reply more than an option’, pls. seriously have in respect the forum’s owner:
“Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. ..”
The first “new facts” here (@1,2,3) should be subject of comments, first.
Means, other links hereto may be considered only as a “meaning/opinion.
Sorry, I’ve just no new facts here to present, but have an approach how to gain the RF essential goals of this SMO. Wait …
SMO.

Posted by: spare_truth | Dec 12 2022 20:41 utc | 25

MacGregor, Larry Johnson, Scott Ritter….. The rollcall is long and extends across decades and generations.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 20:21 utc | 20
Just like Smedley Butler, a hero to all US Marines.
Experience is a necessary component for understanding facts and realizing the truth. Who wants to listen to someone yammer on and moralize about things that they know nothing about? As an ex- US Marine during the Vietnam conflict, I refuse to condemn peoples just because they have direct and first-hand experience.
I mean this as no offence to you Melaleuca.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 12 2022 20:41 utc | 26

MacGregor, Larry Johnson, Scott Ritter….. the rollcall is long and extends across decades and generations.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 20:21 utc | 20
This has always seemed incongruous to me, any normal person would be a guilt and remorse filled drug addict at the very least, if even still alive, like many many military vets, but no these types are cool calm and collected like the psychopaths they are. I don’t follow any of them to any extent, have any of these people ever expressed remorse, grief or apology? I watched several Scott Ritter interviews earlier in the year and I got the impression a few times that he gets off on talking about war.
I wonder what exactly is their function in the eyes of their masters?

Posted by: K | Dec 12 2022 20:43 utc | 27

Posted by: The Scots bloke | Dec 12 2022 20:29 utc | 22
It is pure fiction that plays on the imagination and ignorance of those who have NFI what modern warfare looks like. It also draws on a cliched exaggeration of Red Army tactics from ww2. Ultimately most of the western audience of the MSM think it’s a version Hollywood’s ww2 (BofBros, Saving Private Ryan, etc) or ww1 (the timing of Netflix’ All Quiet is notable). But if there is a useless waste of life it is the rotation of young men through the Bakhmut mill, not for territory but simply to keep up the fiction that Ukraine can still go on the offensive or defend. Whatever the western media or leadership says, it is the opposite that’s true—that includes everything it says.

Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 12 2022 20:48 utc | 28

It is always funny to see someone take McGregor seriously. Last time he was reporting about gunbattles between CIA and US SOF in Cologne.
Posted by: Fnord73 | Dec 12 2022 19:11 utc | 6
I suppose that if McGregor were just a bit more pro Kiev, you might take him a little more seriously: What say you Fnord?

Posted by: Ed | Dec 12 2022 20:50 utc | 29

Like I said- I like him and support him now, but he is not a saint, and may have sung from a different hymn-book if he was still in power.
Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 20:17 utc | 17
I certainly did not claim Macgregor is a saint. To my knowledge no one else here has as well. I would argue that no good soldier could ever be called a saint.
As far as I know killing people and destroying infrastructure is not part of the canonical criteria.
Maybe we can agree to disagree ?

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 20:52 utc | 30

Another question for the bar, what’s with the lion logo on the Brave browser, it gives me the creeps. it was also a prominent logo used by one of the groups who organised the covid protests in Australia. They seemed to be US funded Christians. Is Brave some kind of patriot freedom symbol ? I downloadedBrave on someone’s recommendation here as it supposedly blocks tracking.

Posted by: K | Dec 12 2022 20:53 utc | 31

“The question of Crimea, which I thought before the war would take decades to resolve, today is unambiguous,” said Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the former Russian oil tycoon and longtime Putin critic. “It is difficult to imagine a real end to the war without the return of Crimea to Ukraine.”
Posted by: Paco | Dec 12 2022 20:41 utc | 24

To paraphrase a famous quote: “It is difficult to get a man to imagine something when his salary depends on him not imagining it”. The good news is Khodorkovsky will be long dead before Crimea is resolved to his satisfaction.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 12 2022 20:54 utc | 32

@18
Turkey will never be out of nato. Nato will continue to grow after Swe/Fin, it’s part of their announced expansion of interests to Asia.
In Melitopol a bridge was seriously damaged tonight. Not by missiles, just many explosives. Donetsk had its daily dose of destruction too. Germany opened a weapons repair factory near Ukr border and Czech rep. will hire thousands of workers from Ukr for weapons manufacture.

Posted by: rk | Dec 12 2022 20:55 utc | 33

«a recent Financial Times article on Bakhmut that says this: […] Now is it just me that thinks this is very unlikely? I.e., made up for the credulous reporter or even invented by them. It reads like an account of WWII»
For more of the same, a recent amazing article here:
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htlog/articles/20221211.aspx
I guess that the surging ukrainian armies will soon start the siege of Moscow and it won’t last long :-).
«and it flies in the face of all the videos I’ve seen on actual battle footage of RF forces»
I would not trust these either, even if in general I reckon that most RF propaganda is merely “optimistic”, while most UA/USA/EU propaganda is almost complete fantasy. Also because the career of corporate and government propagandists is safer if they always lie.
I would not trust anything that comes out of either sides because:
* It is all unverifiable hearsay.
* It is quite easy to fake reports/recordings/videos of anecdotes.
* Even if the anecdotes are real, they may unrepresentative, and what matters is the overall situation.
The general rule I follow in these situations is that anything that a vested interest says can only be used against their claims, not to support them.
In older times: “listen to Radio Moscow to learn something about the USA, listen to Radio America to learn about the USSR”. In post-soviet times a common saying is “the communist party lied to us about the wonders of communism, but were right about the flaws of capitalism”.

Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 21:02 utc | 34

“…any normal person would be a guilt and remorse filled drug addict at the very least, if even still alive, like many many military vets, but no these types are cool calm and collected like the psychopaths they are.”
Posted by: K | Dec 12 2022 20:43 utc | 27
That sounds like you are talking about that fuck tard Zelensky. The drug addled imposter who is responsible for the death of over a 100,000 Ukies and civilians as well. You would think he would feel guilt and remorse, after all he did promise peace, democracy, and support for the Minsk-II agreement in his one and only presidential campaign. Oh yes! I forgot, that was just a big lie to buy time to arm the Nazis.
But I am sure the drugs help keep the Z man cool and collected while his country dies from lies and psychopathic dis-interest.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 12 2022 21:05 utc | 35

Euronews headline 12/12/2022:
‘Vladimir Putin has ruined the future of Russia’ says Bill Browder
And who is Bill Browder? Well, according to Wikipedia:
“William Felix Browder is an American-born British financier and political activist. He is the CEO and co-founder of Hermitage Capital Management, the investment advisor to the Hermitage Fund, which at one time was the largest foreign portfolio investor in Russia.
“In December 2017, Browder and Cherkasov were sentenced in absentia to 9 years and 8 years of imprisonment respectively by a Russian court for tax evasion by Hermitage Capital Management and causing $58 million of damage to the Russian federal budget.”

Posted by: krypton | Dec 12 2022 21:09 utc | 36

Euronews headline 12/12/2022:
‘Vladimir Putin has ruined the future of Russia’ says Bill Browder
And who is Bill Browder? Well, according to Wikipedia:
“William Felix Browder is an American-born British financier and political activist. He is the CEO and co-founder of Hermitage Capital Management, the investment advisor to the Hermitage Fund, which at one time was the largest foreign portfolio investor in Russia.
“In December 2017, Browder and Cherkasov were sentenced in absentia to 9 years and 8 years of imprisonment respectively by a Russian court for tax evasion by Hermitage Capital Management and causing $58 million of damage to the Russian federal budget.”

Posted by: krypton | Dec 12 2022 21:09 utc | 37

@Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 20:06 utc | 14
You need to stop utilizing the standard “GDP at US$ exchange rate” comparisons and start with the “GDP purchasing power parity” levels. Using PPP, the Russian and German economies are about the same size. But then we need to make a few adjustments:
– Add the Belarus at PPP to Russia.
– Deduct from EU GDP for financialized profiteering that is not value added, rather ruling class theft and laundering activities (still exists in Russia, but Putin limited it and was limited again by sanctions)
– Deduct from EU GDP and add to Russian GDP for access to the cheap energy upon which manufacturing industry is based (German and EU manufacturing is in the process of taking a huge hit), as well as a large part of the service sector.
You will find that Russia is much closer to EU overall economic size than the usual statistics would tell you. How big will the EU economy be next winter when they run out of natural gas? The next year after their car industry has completely lost the Chinese market and energy intensive industries have moved abroad?
The British economy is running on fumes ….

Posted by: Roger | Dec 12 2022 21:12 utc | 38

Acc.to ‘news-front.info’ – Daily Casualties in Donetzk City:
There are about 80(!) civilian deaths reported last week.
That’s a number that never had been figured in Kiew or elsewhere in UKR.
What is it? Is that a war? Against whome?
So may think a while, but then may come to the conclusion of some more critical persons even in Donbass, how to circumvent/destroy the UKR/Polish/UK mercs HIMARS ‘soldiers’.
Once vesterday – and some days before, some MoA’s suggestion was:
‘Why do not use the very heavy Ground-Bunker-Bombing as just available dropped on to the UKR-trenches and HIMARS-GPS locations (even if some mobile targets), that are shelling day-by-day on Donbass City?
I cannot understand that “un-willingness” of RF – even it’s a dangerous action to attack those UKR/Polish/UK targets by an air fighter Su-planes.
What’s next step of the USUKDE-Nato evil preparing for next year militarily..?
Should be discussed here ..
Thanks for reading.

Posted by: spare_truth | Dec 12 2022 21:12 utc | 39

K | Dec 12 2022 20:53 utc | 31
Sometimes a lionshead is just a lions head.
Lions are brave perhaps ?

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 21:12 utc | 40

Yotube is no longer translating automatically generated subtitles, I follow the channels that talk about the war in Ukraine, Alexander Mercurios, Brian Berletic, Andrei Martyanov, Scott Ritter, Douglas Macgregor etc.
Alternative platforms to Youtube do not have auto-generated subtitles.
Any suggestion?

Posted by: Rodolfo Machado | Dec 12 2022 21:14 utc | 41

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 20:21 utc | 20
Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 12 2022 20:21 utc | 19
Yes, indeed and there lies the rub ; to comport yourself in war so as to be a good effective soldier , and still remain an honourable person who can sleep at night , and be respected by all and sundry .
Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 20:28 utc | 21
Winston Churchill was a murderous cold-blooded killer for the Crown and imperial England his entire adult life. Still, that did not stop the people from making him Prime Minister during its time of troubles with Germany. In fact, it was the reason for Churchill’s rise in politics during WWII.
Tell me who your military heroes are, and I will tell you what monsters you worship.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 12 2022 21:20 utc | 42

«There is a recent Financial Times article on Bakhmut that says this:»
It is so consistent, here is another article on the same newpaper: “FT’s person of the year: _olodymyr _elenskyy”. Which is like all _elenskyy praise completely baseless, because he has contributed nothing even to the war against the Donbas, just speaking platitudes from his script, and looking tough in fatigues.
However _elenskyy apart from being a decent actor is not a complete idiot, in an interview with ultra-“atlantic” “The Economist” he veered off script and said:
https://www.economist.com/europe/volodymyr-zelensky-on-why-ukraine-must-defeat-putin/21808448
«Mr Zelensky divides NATO into five camps. First are those who “don‘t mind a long war because it would mean exhausting Russia, even if this means the demise of Ukraine and comes at the cost of Ukrainian lives”. Others want a quick end to the fighting because “Russia‘s market is a big one [and] their economies are suffering”. A third, more diverse group of countries “recognise Nazism in Russia” and want Ukraine to prevail. They are joined by smaller liberal countries that “want the war to end quickly at any cost, because they think people come first”. And last are the embarrassed countries that want peace right away and in any way possible, because they are “the offices of the Russian Federation in Europe”.»

Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 21:24 utc | 43

Today’s notable headlines:
Russia gas exports to China hit a new record and Shanghai is being hooked up as we speak.
Kosovo looks like its been set to boiling, itll be interesting to see how many other places perk up now that nato resources are being strained.
Next up: the Kurds vs Iran and Turkey. Will the us be able to bail them out against the two regional powers?
Stay tuned!

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 12 2022 21:24 utc | 44

Wagner Group seems to be rising to notice USA’s agitprop accounts. From the 10W30-oleaginous John Feffer (permanent Monday Ukraine-expert on KPFA with Brian Edwards-Tiekert) we hear that not all the Nazis in this conflict are those of Ukraine’s Azov Battalion, as Russia employs this Wagner Group, which has also been linked to Nazis. This is the first time those imperial apologists have ever mentioned the little problem with Ukranian Nazis, btw, but anyhow — the default peacenick-pretense (richly exemplified by Feffer & Edwards-Tiekert) is that USA may be a terrible Nazi empire, but there are also other terrible Nazi empires… essentially equating Russia’s defense of security perimeters to expansionism.
I looked up this accusation of Nazi origins or motivations for directors of Wagner Group. It’s hard to know where to look anymore, because the Wikipedia article on Wagner Group is a masterpiece of high-crap. They (wiki on wagner) currently display a graphic image they call the “Slavic swastika” as the logo of the shadowy Rusich unit.
Don’t waste your time with wiki like me — I’m only sharing this in case someone has better-quality information on this Wagner-Nazi accusation.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 12 2022 21:25 utc | 45

Paco@24 Thank you for putting my post into better perspective. We are all-well, most of us- learning here. Any merit in my posts reflects the collective wisdom.
A Socialist in Canada translates and publishes “How the U.S. is planning a full-scale war with Russia” by Victoria Nikiforova.
“…No matter how much money is poured into it, no matter how many weapons are shipped, the Armed Forces of Ukraine cannot fulfill the combat missions that Washington is setting before it. This means that the operational plan for the NATO war against Russia is not some old trump card that Milley puts on the table every year, seeking an increase in defense spending from Congress. It’s a completely real plan for a very real, big war….
“…Meanwhile, more and more new units of the American army are being transferred to Europe, and large-scale deliveries of weapons and equipment are being carried out there. The idea of ​​sending representatives of the U.S. Army to Ukraine is being openly discussed. Officially, military advisers will have to train the Ukrainian troops in handling valuable imported equipment. In reality, that is also to ensure that the equipment is not plundered on an industrial scale.
“The American military has been fighting in Ukraine for a long time and with might and main. It’s just that it is being done unofficially, as though it were soldiers of fortune from Texas and Oklahoma involved. All the frank escalation of the conflict, inexorably leading the world to a larger war, is accompanied by lulling speeches saying that Washington wants to avoid an open confrontation with Moscow. To be frank, it is simply not believable. The fig leaf called ‘Ukraine’ which was supposed to cover up Washington’s plans for war with Russia slipped a long time ago and is now gone…”
https://socialistincanada.ca/how-the-u-s-is-planning-a-full-scale-war-with-russia/

Posted by: bevin | Dec 12 2022 21:25 utc | 46

The UK can supply Ukraine with long-range weapons if Russia violates the Geneva Conventions.”- UK Ministry of Defense Ben Wallace,Deutsche Welle
https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1602359169033670656
So. As UK can claim contravention at any time… does this mean UK is prepping to send long range weapons, ?

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 21:26 utc | 47

Serbia is in big trouble.
https://youtu.be/voL3aJqSagg
It’s just getting worse. 2035 is becoming likely. Are the no sane people left in the E.U. ?
As for the US…sanity left the building long ago.
https://youtu.be/k6oRCpL1S9w
Give the Hinkle video a proper look. I like Jackson because he is young and he has no filter at all. Refreshing to watch for those reasons alone but I don’t watch much of him to be truthful. I prefer sober analysis but sometimes a bit of unfiltered ranting acts as catharsis.
Cheers

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 21:26 utc | 48

“I suppose that if McGregor were just a bit more pro Kiev, you might take him a little more seriously: What say you Fnord?”
No, not at all, he would still be insane. That whole Jade Helm-style fantasy he ran during the US elections was genuinely batshit crazy.

Posted by: Fnord73 | Dec 12 2022 21:27 utc | 49

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 12 2022 18:31 utc | 4
Thank you, karlof1. I like the 3 part video B linked to ‘s description of ‘vassal states’ — vassals being only such as long as they get minimal support from those they serve. Which brings basic realities into play, financial ones. Getting my second cup of coffee to help digest your readings – we’re getting a slice of winter this week, may it travel onward! (Last week was sunny; my rosemaries are blooming.)

Posted by: juliania | Dec 12 2022 21:28 utc | 50

@karlof1 (4)
You say that Crooke’s prose is elegant. I find it stiff, obtuse and sleep-inducing. Of course, some people regard such a writing style as a sign of profundity. Rarely have I found anything profound or original in his essays, of which I was once a regular reader. But I grew tired of having to read paragraphs two or three times to be sure that I had gotten the meaning.
Off topic, I realize.

Posted by: Rob | Dec 12 2022 21:30 utc | 51

In Melitopol a bridge was seriously damaged tonight. Not by missiles, just many explosives. Donetsk had its daily dose of destruction too. Germany opened a weapons repair factory near Ukr border and Czech rep. will hire thousands of workers from Ukr for weapons manufacture.
Posted by: rk | Dec 12 2022 20:55 utc | 33
rk; somehow, I detect your glee when you report such things. I wonder if you are as big of a weasel as you sound.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 12 2022 21:31 utc | 52

Posted by: krypton | Dec 12 2022 21:09 utc | 37
Browder is rather more despicable than that. His grandfather was a renowned, pro USSR communist, who visited Russia . Browder seems to have deliberately turned his back on that legacy. I was given his autobiography for Xmas last year. Despicable man. One does not need to agree with ones forebears, but to deliberately deride them and what they believed, is a low act.

Posted by: watcher | Dec 12 2022 21:32 utc | 53

No, not at all, he would still be insane. That whole Jade Helm-style fantasy he ran during the US elections was genuinely batshit crazy.
Posted by: Fnord73 | Dec 12 2022 21:27 utc | 48
The whole of the USA is batshit crazy.
Macgregor is good at killing and wrecking stuff. You are not. I will listen to the experts, when they are firmly in their own lane, over amateur analysis any day of the week.
Cheers

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 21:35 utc | 54

Posted by: Roger | Dec 12 2022 21:12 utc | 38
«You will find that Russia is much closer to EU overall economic size than the usual statistics would tell you.»
For that to work the GDP-per-head of the EU, which has 3 times the population of the RF, would need to be way below that of the RF.
The GDP-per-person of the EU in *nominal* terms is around $38,000 that of the RF is $12,000. If the “real” GDP-per-person of the EU were just 1/3 of what is reported, or that of the RF were 3 times of what is reported, the total GDP of the EU would still be 3 times that of the RF, simply because of having a much bigger population.
As I wrote «the resources (land and what’s under it) and the military of the RF mean it can to some extent “punch above its weight”», but not several times above its weight.
The PRC is a rather different matter, and the USA oligarchs are much more worried about that.

Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 21:37 utc | 55

Aleph_Null | Dec 12 2022 21:25 utc | 44
Point 1. Anyone can be called a NAZI at any moment for any reason.
Point 2. We (U$) don’t like Wagner, ergo, Wagner are NAZIs
Point 3. If we can convince= state Wagner are NAZI then and images of nazism in Ukraine now are Wagner. In fact, Azov now = Wagner.
Point 4. Most of the blueandyellow flags on twitter have no clue. If Azov are NAZI and Wagner are NAZI. All Russians are NAZIs.
Point 5. The U$ fought the NAZIs in WW2, and won. Russians are NAZIs. Therefore the U$ fought Russia in WW2 and won.
Point 6. The U$ defeated Russia in WW2, so the U$ will kick Russia’s ass again for a second time. This time with nukes.
Point 7. You are a NAZI; a Putin puppet Nazi, if you question or challenge any of what I say.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 21:37 utc | 56

@ K 31. Lions by default are not brave as they usually hunt in packs unlike Tigers which are solitary predators. I used to work with a former Zoo keeper that (through his own fault) had been seized by a Lion and gripped by his shoulder and neck. He was saved by another keeper who drove it off using a fire extinguisher. I asked him about the experience and he said the Lion had terribly bad breath. The Brave browser btw is excellent for watching YouTube and does prevent add interruptions.

Posted by: Raumati | Dec 12 2022 21:44 utc | 57

«[_]elensky. […] is responsible for the death of over a 100,000 Ukies and civilians as well.»
That argument is based on usual propaganda from “the west” that the war started on 24 February 2022 with the invasion of Ukraine by the RF…
But actually the person responsible for the death of over 120,000 ukrainians is Poroshenko, who started the ukrainian war of aggression against the Donbas on 9 May 2014 with the Mariupol Massacre; the war by the ukrainian fascist government against the Donbas the current “SMO” this year is just the latest counter-attack by the Donbas.
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/least-among-us-war-donbas-terrorizing-ukraines-most-vulnerable-citizens/
«The deep anger toward both Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko (I was told by one young woman, a native of Donetsk, that “this is Poroshenko’s war”) and an equally deep sense of alienation from the Ukrainian state in Kiev are equally unmistakable. One young mother told us “there is no ‘back’ to Ukraine for Donbas.” If Poroshenko and his cheerleaders in the Obama administration and the US Congress believe that an economic blockade, Kiev’s deployment of snipers, the shelling of Donbas’s civilians and a proposal to send American weapons with which to facilitate the shelling is the recipe for winning eastern Ukrainian “hearts and minds” they couldn’t be more wrong.»
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas
«3,393 civilians killed (349 in 2016–2021)
13,100–13,300 killed; 29,500–33,500 wounded overall
414,798 Ukrainians internally displaced; 925,500 fled abroad»
Something that few in “the west” mention is that during Poroshenko’s War the largest number of ukrainian refugees have gone not to “the west” but to the safety of the RF, because they were fleeing the war against them by the ukrainian government.

Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 21:46 utc | 58

@ Melaleuca
We want to hear your Klot-Shot rant.. [make it good]

Posted by: T S | Dec 12 2022 21:48 utc | 59

Rob | Dec 12 2022 21:30 utc | 50
🙂
Stay away from Schoppenhauer then. The World as Will and Representation is the most difficult read ever. Taken me a year to read the first book. Not helped by the fact it was written in German and translated into English.
It was so difficult it has put me off the other two parts of The World as Will and Representation. The way things are going it looks like I won’t be able to finish them. Ah well shit happens.

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 21:48 utc | 60

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 21:37 utc | 55
Either I just totally missed your point, or a troll has taken over your ID. Your remarks in the past have always been on point and clearly stated.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 12 2022 21:53 utc | 61

Sometimes a lionshead is just a lions head.
Lions are brave perhaps ?
Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 21:12 utc | 39
Yes it might just be free artwork.
My question was really about whether this browser is trustable, I wasn’t very clear.
its also off topic I apologise.

Posted by: K | Dec 12 2022 21:57 utc | 62

Posted by: Comandante | Dec 12 2022 19:21 utc | 8
Bingo. Simple test, does the person in question seem to be rational? From my perspective Mcgreggor appears to be a rational actor and is worth watching. Always hold out the possibility I could be wrong or being duped, but the man seems to be much more rational than anyone in the MSM.

Posted by: dust | Dec 12 2022 21:59 utc | 63

GDP-per-head
@ Blissex | Dec 12 2022 21:37 utc | 54

Please remember that economics is philosophy and not science.

Posted by: too scents | Dec 12 2022 22:04 utc | 64

Some ‘news-front’ reports from DNR claims about 80 civilians died per last week by UKR shelling in Donetzk City.
Is that still really the price for ‘winning the battle’?
As previous comments here had mentioned about ‘questions’ to the ‘ defensive’ fact:
Why is the RF military commanders on Donbass’ border is not yet able/willing to fire some very heavy-ground Bunker-Bombs on the UKR trenches and HIMARS positions ?
Why don’t they? – though flights over the areas (ie. with its Su-nn) is still ‘some dangerous’ yet ? Fear for what?
I have not checked that subject til now ..
Living in Donetzk as a civilian is really also very dangerous ..
RF – pls. may think newly about that ever-day shelling ..
and change Your soldier-like very human strategy.

Posted by: spare_truth | Dec 12 2022 22:10 utc | 65

@ Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 21:37 utc | 55
@ Ed | Dec 12 2022 21:53 utc | 60
Strange that Melaleuca’s 7-point discourse on Naziism should inspire someone to proudly “miss the point” — or doubt the authenticity of the author.
Authentic or not, I got the point (all seven): That general discourse (or perhaps our lazy US American mindset) has degraded to the point where the adjective Nazi is totally arbitrary, its usage consistently, conveniently inconsistent, no?

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 12 2022 22:12 utc | 66

«Stay away from Schoppenhauer then.»
Who is a model of clarity and elegance compared to Hegel :-).
There is an excellent site that explains in few-panel comics the essentials of various philosophers, and quite well too:
https://www.existentialcomics.com/archive
In particular:
https://existentialcomics.com/comic/40
https://existentialcomics.com/philosopher/Arthur_Schopenhauer
https://existentialcomics.com/philosopher/Georg_Wilhelm_Friedrich_Hegel
Here is a primer on international politics:
https://existentialcomics.com/comic/307

Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 22:15 utc | 67

«[Z]elensky. […] is responsible for the death of over a 100,000 Ukies and civilians as well.»
Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 21:46 utc | 57
If you are going to reply to my comment, then please have the courtesy to identify me: Ed @#41. There is no reason to be Chicken Shit, troll or otherwise.
No this is not Poroshenko’s war. He was just a pawn of the Obama/Biden administration in 2014. In that respect, this is an Obama / Biden war from the beginning, as the Maiden Coup belonged to the US. Now it is Bidens baby and Zelensky is Biden’s pawn. Zelensky could have refused to be Biden’s pawn, and instead follow through with his campaign promise to the people of Ukraine. I suspect that if he had done so, he would have been dead a long time ago.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 12 2022 22:16 utc | 68

K | Dec 12 2022 21:57 utc | 61
Opinions vary here. Some like it, some think it is compromised. Depends on your level of deep state paranoia.
I use any browser except google chrome if I can. I use Duck Duck go as search engine. I hate ads so the browser must have a good adblocker. That being said my fondle slab only has Google chrome so I am forced to use it
I am not that paranoid as I am a tiny fish swimming in a huge school in a massive ocean so anything is OK by me.

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 22:17 utc | 69

Ed | Dec 12 2022 21:53 utc | 60
I guess you missed the point.
The @bar once indulged a side serve of irony/sarc.
I guess times are now too fraught, and trolls too overwhelming and persistent.
Sardonic humour is also a bit tricky online…
Re your point re Macgregor. I am following him ATM as he’s talking “sense”.
But the reason he knows so well of what he speaks… is his handiwork in Yugoslavia and Iraq.
He’s come to prominence more recently as numerous yt content creators need to fill their quota. MacGregor speaks well, intelligently, and authoritatively.
I gave the Vlahos-Macgregor dialogue the 3hrs over this weekend… and I don’t have 3hrs to waste….
Hinkle. I was giving him a go, and think he’s an admirable young man.
IMO among the very best, most professional interviewers.
He asks intelligent, informed questions….and doesn’t needlessly interrupt his guest.
Exactly as Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 21:26 utc | 47 states:
“”I don’t watch much of him to be truthful. I prefer sober analysis but sometimes a bit of unfiltered ranting acts as catharsis.”” [yep]
Just found this, and chuckled (moderately)…
Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 21:35 utc | 53

Macgregor is good at killing and wrecking stuff. ….I will listen to the experts, when they are firmly in their own lane, over amateur analysis

watcher | Dec 12 2022 21:32 utc | 52
Browder is just evil personified.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 22:18 utc | 70

bevin | Dec 12 2022 20:18 utc | 18

…regime change they want in Moscow…they want a racist, anti-Asian government that will break off contacts with the “inferior” Asians and ‘return’ to that Palace of Culture and decency Europe, where the white people live…

Not possible. We Germans have been informed on state TV by Florence Gaub, deputy chairwomen of the Institute for Security Studies of the European Union and consultant of the European Council that Russians are Asians: “…I believe we must not forget that, even though Russians look European, they are not Europeans in the cultural sense…”. She continued explaining that Russians don’t have this [European] liberal, post-modern understanding of life and therefore they cope differently with the fact that people die, including themselves. [Hence they wage wars, regardless of the victims on either side].

Posted by: OttoE | Dec 12 2022 22:21 utc | 71

So. As UK can claim contravention at any time… does this mean UK is prepping to send long range weapons, ?
Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 21:26 utc | 46
UK has been behind most if not all escalation provocation to date. Weapon flows into Ukraine have slowed to a trickle, Russian forces have built up again, but 150 thousand mobilized still in training and the war is not going good for UK. UK needs to try and break Russia’s systematic approach to maximizing Ukraine attrition rate. Try and make Russia act rashly or in a way that will draw the US in deeper.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 12 2022 22:22 utc | 72

Klot-Shot rant.. [make it good]
T S | Dec 12 2022 21:48 utc | 58
You *really* don’t want to incite me.
Maybe on the open thread…

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 22:27 utc | 73

Peter AU1 | Dec 12 2022 22:22 utc | 71
If UKGov was smart they would be trying to work to prevent the economy from heading into depression territory, not throwing money at an unwinnable war.
UKGov is demonstrably stupid. Up to the brits what they do with those clowns in Parliament. My suggestion is find a rifle and a nice wall.

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 22:30 utc | 74

I am not that paranoid as I am a tiny fish swimming in a huge school in a massive ocean so anything is OK by me.
Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 22:17 utc | 68
Thanks for the reply, I use Duck Duck Go as well.
I’m not paranoid either its not about surveillance for me since everything is surveilled now and I’m unimportant in that way. Its that i just don’t want to support companies with questionable ethics and obvious ties to Empire if possible.

Posted by: K | Dec 12 2022 22:37 utc | 75

@64;
Because the RF is unable to engage in accurate counter battery fire.
In a nutshell, RF forces are using WW2 level technology but UA is 21st C level.
In Putins “United Russia” 70% of “modernisation” efforts were a scam. Money siphoned off by criminals and and “beautiful reports” sent to Shoigu (a grade A ass kisser). Criminal Oligarchy has systematically destroyed the infrastructure and human capital required for Russia to wage war. Putin did not realise this, and in fact believed in a quick “regime change” operation, now he is f*****. Stick a fork in him.
As soon as Western imported machine tools start to wear out RF industry will collapse altogether if China cannot supply replacements.
The West knows this and they aim to win (RF out of UA except for Crimea), thus their cockiness. My opinion is now that they will win unless some radical change happens.
This recent article from Topwar.ru on the disastrous state of Russian artillery is very instructive:
https://en.topwar.ru/206569-bol-i-nischeta-rossijskoj-artillerii.html
Note how real Russians who know better do not subscribe to the idea promoted by Western bloggers that RF artillery is 10x superior etc.
People see Putin as a crypto communist and real anti imperialist resistance figure. False. The machinations of his oligarch backers and his personal machine disenfranchised the Communist Party in the late 90s, just like Yeltsin did in the early 90s.
Putin neoliberalised Russia, integrating totally into Weatern supply chains, as he wanted to be a respected equal member in the Western gang, too foolish to realise that if you are not Americas bitch you are the enemy. Now it is all coming down around him.
Neoliberalisation = destruction of state capability and autonomy for the enrichment of the imperial centre.
Delusional people here will say otherwise. Let’s see in 3 months what has happened. (“Winter offensive” – LOL)
US is winning, fascism is winning, imperialism is winning. On every level. Which happens when people engage in wishful thinking and cultish psychosis.

Posted by: Moaobserver | Dec 12 2022 22:38 utc | 76

When a guy leads with “Yuri’s pronouns are: build/tanks…”
You gotta check the Bakhmut recap/update:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqm2XVKdaio
Funny, witty, factual and informative. You gotta admire @HistoryLegends.

Posted by: Et Tu | Dec 12 2022 22:39 utc | 77

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 12 2022 22:22 utc | 71

… UK needs to try and break Russia’s systematic approach to maximizing Ukraine attrition rate. Try and make Russia act rashly or in a way that will draw the US in deeper.

Who will “Try and make act rashly” .. to go US in a deeper state – that now?
No one can today. You know.
But what’s may be the today’s “meaning of an UKR-Soldier” trying of standing-up in a mud trenches waiting for support, beside nearby dying comrades caused of no medical help?
Those UKR-Polish “friend” guys fired the HIMARS towards Donetzk to kill only civis.
Go hell, all the mercs from everywhere!

Posted by: spare_truth | Dec 12 2022 22:39 utc | 78

I’m interested in people’s thoughts on this question.
When do people here think the much vaunted Russian Winter Offensive will begin?
2022, 2023 or 2024?

Posted by: Julian | Dec 12 2022 22:41 utc | 79

@ Kalof1 Post 4
You continue to share. Many thanks.
from Alastair Crooke – The U.S. Cuckoo in the European Nest

[.]
As a logical consequence, the indeterminate and undefined ‘as long as it takes’ policy, simply binds the EU to ‘forever Russia sanctions’ – leading Europe deeper into economic crisis, with no plan ‘B’. Nor, even a hint of one.
Yet, at another level, almost completely absent from European analysis, (because of its embrace of the flawed analysis that views ‘Russia as a friable military power’) – lies the unaddressed reality: The contention is not between Kiev vs Moscow – it was always between the U.S. vs Russia.[.]

Yesterday Ms. Yellen, with her wallet of mouse-click dollars, said US Aid to Ukraine Can Go on ‘As Long as It Takes’
Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen signaled the Biden administration is prepared to continue seeking billions of dollars in aid for Ukraine as long as it takes…
Bloomberg
in other words, with mouse-click dollars “we can mouse this win for Ukraine.”
Suggestion for Ms. Yellen: read Prof. Michael Hudson’s The American Empire Self-Destructs

Posted by: Likklemore | Dec 12 2022 22:43 utc | 80

UK needs to try and break Russia’s systematic approach to maximizing Ukraine attrition rate. Try and make Russia act rashly or in a way that will draw the US in deeper.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 12 2022 22:22 utc | 71

Play stupid games – win stupid prizes.
Where is that useless UK aircraft carrier at the moment anyway?

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 12 2022 22:48 utc | 81

Aleph_Null | Dec 12 2022 21:25 utc | 44 + 65
To answer your question more soberly…
Re Wagner = nazis.
I saw a telegram (which made it to corporate media, electric fast) about Wagner recruiting from Russian prisons.
Some of the “hard men” types who find themselves incarcerated (in any country) often (or mostly) have “hard man” tattoos…. Said tattoos are often of an antisocial genre… and there’s nothing more antisocial and oppositional to mainstream than SS and BlackSun and similar images… so. “Highly likely” some of the Wagner crew have Nazi tatts… which suddenly become pulsating neon visible to the corporate media …. Who are simultaneously dead-eye blind to the Ukrainian adulation of Bandera and the meaning of “Glory to the Heros” (Bandera and the Nazi collaborators)

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 22:51 utc | 82

You need to learn to avoid the muppets who like to hang out on this site and spread their western-inspired bullshit. rk, Moaobserver and Ed Tu are three I avoid as they are obvious numpties with no life.

Posted by: MisterPete | Dec 12 2022 22:53 utc | 83

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 20:52 utc | 30
Agree to disagree when we don’t agree?
Of course ,as always. 🙂
Posted by: Paco | Dec 12 2022 20:41 utc | 24
Make up your mind, Khodo. What are you ? An anti -Russian patrimony Russian, a Zionist Jew or just a piece of money-grubbing shite? I would have already put him against a wall for what he did to Russia, and I am not Russian , and live in a Western country. I just call it shamelessly looting your own country. In fact, on thinking further , I’d call it treason , and now with the Crimea response it cements my opinion.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 22:57 utc | 84

bevin @45–
IMO, we ought to review the motives for turning Ukraine into an Anti-Russia, a project with 1000+ year-old roots well before any Ukraine. Western elite antipathy for Russia and the Slavic people dates to then and even further back in time. The jealousy of and quest for Russia’s vast resources didn’t really arise until the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. That Russia didn’t participate in the Age of Plunder IMO is significant just as its efforts to secure the liberty of colonized nations after WW2 is significant–and well-remembered by those nations. We were told the main conflict with USSR/Russia was ideological, but is that really true? Napoleon attacked Russia in 1812 because Russia ceased its support for the Continental System in 1810. Napoleon’s grand plan was to defeat Russia then turn it into an ally to attack British South Asia. So, we can conclude Napoleon wanted Russia for its resources, not to alter its ideology. But as the 1900s approached, the contending parties and their reasonings changed. Between 1912 and 1914, the Kaiser and several of his advisors imagined what was brewing was a contest for the racial control of Europe between the Teutons and Slavs, and they also noted Germany’s increased dependence of Russian raw materials. The Eastern land grab made by Germany at the outset of Russia’s Civil War foreshadowed later events and the reasoning behind them. It was also at this time that the precursors of Ukraine’s OUN were founded and committed their first atrocities. Western Elite’s animus to Socialism also grew during the Scramble for Africa stage of the Age of Plunder and was able to capitalize on Lenin’s call for a global communist revolution.
So, by the time of the economic meltdown and rise of European Fascism in its wake in 1930, the primary reasons for conquering Russia were established, being both economic and ideological, and were adopted by the Western capitalist nations. But something went amiss with the next war and Russia became the victor. But its victorious moment was just that as it again became the target, this time for Nuclear Genocide, which Russia was very fortunate to avoid and then deter.
As the years rolled by from 1950 to 2020, Europe again became dependent of Russian resources, energy mostly but also other raw materials, but the reasons for conquering Russia still remained, never having been renounced. When the USSR collapsed in 1989, there were some promises made that amounted to renouncing the desire to conquer Russia, but they were quickly voided as the Neoliberal Rape of Russia commenced, killing a similar number of Russians as were lost during the Great Patriotic War. It appeared to many Western elites that they’d finally won their battle to subdue Russia. But Yeltsin brought forth Putin and the reversal of fortunes began.
Putin and other Russians have taken many pains over the last decade to try and convince the West that there’s no ideological conflict anymore. But as I’ve noted that’s an error for Russia is performing a nationalist form of People Centered Development that’s 100% at odds with the Parasitic Neoliberalism the West was installing. Plus, Europe and a greater portion of the world are geoeconomically dependent on Russia–just because you cut yourself off from the source doesn’t end your dependency. So again, ideology and resources form the basis for the conflict between the one remaining Empire from the Age of Plunder, the Outlaw US Empire and its NATO vassals, and Russia along with its many allies in what’s known as the Rest of World (RoW).
What sort of policy would allow the Outlaw US Empire to conquer Russia so it can control its resources and alter its ideology? Just replacing Putin with another Yeltsin isn’t sufficient since there are many who wouldn’t accept such a change. Conquering Russia militarily is an impossibility, and a Nuclear War would see the West totally destroyed. IMO, there’s no policy imaginable that would allow the West to attain its goals, yet it persists to its own detriment. Why? Hubris? Pleonexia? Because they have nothing better to do? Stupidity? Or is the irrationality of Racism and related belief in one’s own Exceptionalism driving those who say they’re in charge?

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 12 2022 23:00 utc | 85

To those of you intellectually substandard, characterless bumpkins criticising MacGregor, I suggest you lose 150 pounds, get off your basement bed, and do something with your life. Maybe, if you don’t wind up a homeless dreg, you might be entitled to an opinion, but not much of one.

Posted by: HOGGY | Dec 12 2022 23:03 utc | 86

When do people here think the much vaunted Russian Winter Offensive will begin?
@ Julian | Dec 12 2022 22:41 utc | 78
This came up in the previous thread. Some people, myself included, don’t see anything beyond a slow, steady tightening of the vice, from Russia — very boring, from that all-important optical vaunting point of view.
The scope of this military operation has considerably widened. NATO leaders voice putative worries — which read like admitted intentions — over this. NATO get foisted on its own petard, with General Winter marching inexorably along, making foolishness lethal.
On either side of the line (which is turning out to be the Dnieper, for the forseeable) General Winter treats the more poorly organized, poorly provisioned most severely.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 12 2022 23:03 utc | 87

“ Re your point re Macgregor. I am following him ATM as he’s talking “sense”.
But the reason he knows so well of what he speaks… is his handiwork in Yugoslavia and Iraq.
He’s come to prominence more recently as numerous yt content creators need to fill their quota. MacGregor speaks well, intelligently, and authoritatively.”
Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 22:18 utc | 69
Appreciate that background info which I did not know and will look into. I think you may agree people can be wrong at a certain times in their lives and be right at other times. I can admit to being wrong numerous times. I think what matters is how a person changes their thinking in regards to a changing understanding of the world/situation/people. Any completely static position will at some point appear “wrong” bc the universe is always changing as we are also changing as humans.. Apologies way too long of a rant…

Posted by: dust | Dec 12 2022 23:06 utc | 88

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 12 2022 22:48 utc | 80

Play stupid games – win stupid prizes.
Where is that useless UK aircraft carrier at the moment anyway? ..

Note, the UK has nothing to decide anyway within NATO to go ahead for whatever (nuclear war, etc.), neither Mr. Stoltenberg (Norwegian master of desaster) has to do – believe that.
Keep commands from US-Gov by-passed by US-Intel .. That’s it only.
Nearby:
A real coup in GER would be: min. 300.000 people would “move” towards Berlin, to destroy the heritance of UvdLiers etc. etc. etc. , pls. (who ever) make a new “Black-List” to have those on a new focus of criminal warfare (or call +684674 5553 The Wagner PMC for a new order).
Think abaout daily shelling against civis in Donetzk – Please.

Posted by: spare_truth | Dec 12 2022 23:06 utc | 89

Why? Hubris? Pleonexia? Because they have nothing better to do? Stupidity? Or is the irrationality of Racism and related belief in one’s own Exceptionalism driving those who say they’re in charge?
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 12 2022 23:00 utc | 84

Because the MIC has to be maintained by enemies. A big bullying empire has to have a big military. A big military has to have regular use. Freshen up the inventory. Sharpen up the cadre. Picking a fight is just doing routine maintenance. They’ve really screwed the pooch this time though.

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 12 2022 23:15 utc | 90

Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 22:27 utc | 72
Its a slow newsday. I hope klot shot has a go at ya… I could do with a chuckle.
Klot shot you know not what you are doing.
Do I need the popcorn ?

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 23:16 utc | 91

@Posted by: Blissex | Dec 12 2022 21:37 utc | 54
Russia GDP per head at PPP is US$32,000 and population 143 million = 4,576,000 million
Belarus GDP per head at PPP is US$22,000 and population 10 million = 220,000 million
= 4.8 trillion (industry 26.6%)
EU GDP per head at PPP is US$54,000 and population 447 million = 24,138,000 million
= 24.1 trillion (industry 24.5%)
So yes, EU is 5 times the size of Russia+Belarus at PPP, industry to industry ratio is slightly less (services don’t fight wars).
The second question is how much of that industry will be viable at energy prices multiples of those available to Russia, China, US etc? UK has 19% industry, US 18.9%, will Europe end up there or lower? Third concern is that this is an existential crisis for Russia, but it is not for Europe (perhaps Poland sees it as such, but not the other nations) – that will greatly affect how much resources and human costs will be acceptable to be allocated to the war, especially with living standards falling and public services being cut.
And yes of course, in the bigger picture EU (24)+US (25)+Japan (6.1) +UK (3.8) + Canada (2.2) +Australia (1.6) vs. Russia (4.6) + Belarus (0.2) + China (30) + Iran (1.6) things are a lot closer: 62.7 vs 36.4 (1.71 to 1), the ratio is probably lower when we consider actual productive industrial capacity. Does show how important the US control of Europe is to the US, especially Germany, France and Italy.

Posted by: Roger | Dec 12 2022 23:22 utc | 92

Re Colonel Macgregor: I’m an anarchist. I don’t like soldiers of a national army (including myself when I was in the Army for three years from 1967-1970.) That experience made me learn what national armies were all about.
But I don’t care what he did in the past. What I follow him for is his knowledge of the art of war. The same with Martyanov, Ritter and all the others with a military background. I don’t waste my time moralizing when I need factual information and logical interpretation of same. These people have what I call “sapiential authority” – authority based on subject matter knowledge and experience.
And beyond all that, I also assess any statements based on my own understanding of logic and reality. Which is why I disagree with Macgregor on his assumption that Russia will likely stop at the Dnieper, which as I’ve said repeatedly will not achieve Russia’s security requirements vis-a-vis Ukraine or NATO. Other comments of his, such as about the US border and other political matters, I ignore, just as I ignore Martyanov’s rants about matters outside his military expertise.
Bottom line: You don’t have to like someone to benefit from their knowledge and experience. Sometimes you learn more from your enemies than your friends.
“Why should I fear that? The closer they come to me, the more they must be my allies. They cannot conquer me, but I can conquer them….I have no allies. Only servants, students and enemies.” – Leto Atreides, God Emperor of Dune

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 12 2022 23:25 utc | 93

My wife has convinced me that Putin is really sick after all. It actually explains a lot, including what’s going on in Kosovo now. I think this augers well for a peace agreement.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 12 2022 23:25 utc | 94

@ et.al &
Authentic or not, I got the point (all seven): That general discourse (or perhaps our lazy US American mindset) has degraded to the point where the adjective Nazi is totally arbitrary, its usage consistently, conveniently inconsistent, no?
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 12 2022 22:12 utc | 65
Reminds me of Godwin’s law.

Posted by: Forest | Dec 12 2022 23:27 utc | 95

People see Putin as a crypto communist and real anti imperialist resistance figure. ” I see him as Putin2.. an inert insert, as are MbS2, JB2-8, HC2 etc.
Putin1 went to Geneva a few years ago for the alleged birth of a daughter. 2 weeks later Putin2 appeared. with a new round face, no more a prominent chin, diff eyes and earlobes, a new non-Judo belly, with more hair and the loss of his old German & Judo skills.. & his wife. Old video of Putin1 with late Fr. Prez. Chirac, or any old photos show a different guy to Putin2. Putin’s Ghost locals call him. IMO, maybe after the failure of Put1 to follow through after the Donbass victory in 2014, and allowing the nutto to build up, was the last straw for the Russ MIC/top dogs.
 
P

Posted by: Thomas Turk | Dec 12 2022 23:29 utc | 96

Hey – remember @1,2,3 that ^^ above item today (just seems the only “info” today yet ..).
Okay – doesn’t matter. Some now what mentioned hereby.
Think about war and USUKGER what have plans for a very long time'(!) til to 2024, to destroy itself like Soros/Gate’s pupils have now being eduacated.
Pls. think civis shelling in DonBass.. Call +837 658 866 to fire GRAD against HIMARS ..
Cheers!

Posted by: spare_truth | Dec 12 2022 23:31 utc | 97

Likklemore @79–
Thanks for your reply. I refrained from posting any excerpts because I didn’t want to influence anyone’s first reads, particularly the segment you cited. Now that you’ve provided a key citation, I will now provide two more, the first one dealing with the Cuckoo reference, which is likely lost on most readers:

Larry Johnson – a long veteran of both the CIA and the State Department – pinpoints the ‘cuckoo’ nestling at the bottom of the ‘nest’ of western thinking about Ukraine. The bird has two closely related parts: the upper layer is the conceptual framework positing that the U.S. faces two distinct spheres of contention: first, U.S. vs Russia, and secondly, U.S. vs China.
The essential mental framework behind this ‘cuckoo’ – just to be plain – is wholly U.S.-centric: It is the view of the world from someone peering out from Washington, tinted by wishful thinking.
It is truly a ‘cuckoo’ (i.e. the malicious insertion of an interloper amongst the legitimate chicks), because these battlescapes are not two, as claimed, but one. How so?
These two conflicts are not distinct, but interconnect through the western refusal to acknowledge that it is Western cultural pretensions of superiority that are the crux to the unfolding process of today’s geopolitical restructuring.
The purpose of the cuckoo is to erase this pivotal aspect from the conceptual framing, and then to reduce the whole to abstract power politics where Russia and China can be played off – one against the other.
Plainly put, the bifurcation U.S. vs China separate to U.S. vs Russia serves principally to ‘bed-down’ the growing cuckoo.

And the second grows from the first and clearly went well over poor Rob’s tiny brain:

As Larry Johnson notes, there are not just two putative outcomes, but rather, there is a missing third. It is that Russia ultimately, will dictate the terms of the Ukraine outcome. This missing third alternative paradoxically, is also the most likely.
Yes, the U.S. and EU narrative is that Ukraine is winning, but as Colonel Douglas Macgregor, an earlier candidate for U.S. National Security Adviser, notes:

The Biden administration repeatedly commits the unpardonable sin in a democratic society of refusing to tell the American people the truth: Contrary to the Western media’s popular “Ukrainian victory” narrative, which blocks any information that contradicts it, Ukraine is not winning and will not win this war … The coming offensive phase of the conflict will provide a glimpse of the new Russian force that is emerging and its future capabilities … The numbers continue to grow, but the numbers already include 1,000 rocket artillery systems, thousands of tactical ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and drones, plus 5,000 armoured fighting vehicles, including at least 1,500 tanks, hundreds of manned fixed-wing attack aircraft, helicopters and bombers. This new force has little in common with the Russian army that intervened nine months ago on Feb. 24, 2022.

For Europe, its unreflective taking of this American ‘cuckoo’ thinking into its own European nest is nothing short of catastrophic. Brussels – by extension – has absorbed the false contention that China is distinct from the Russian project. This mental device intentionally forecloses on the necessary understanding that Europe faces a burgeoning resistance from the Russia-China axis, and much of the world, who scorn its pretensions to some higher order superiority.
Secondly, the buy-in to the DC-smart ‘only two alternatives’ framework – ‘because the U.S. is a military behemoth and Russia would never dare anything beyond a proxy war’ – shows up the fat cuckoo in the nest: NATO escalation is relatively risk-free: we have Putin pinned down in Ukraine; HE dare not trigger a full NATO response.
Russia, nonetheless, is preparing to launch an outcome-setting offensive. Then, what of Europe? Did you think that through? No, because that ‘alternative’ did not even appear ‘amongst the framework parameters’.

And that brings us to the attempt to escalate in Kosovo, which I’ve commented upon at the open thread. The mindset being utilized by those Biden fronts for we’ve seen previously–those of Hitler’s 1942 Germany just before the loss of the Battle for Moscow. NATO has lost, the European component at least, but has yet to admit that truism to itself. The 5-Eyes could try to continue, but their defeat is there for anyone with an open mind to see. Those deeply steeped in Empire propaganda will have to deal with conniption fits as reality crashes their party. The Rest of World will celebrate as Dollar and US Hegemony dies and the Age of Plunder officially ends.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 12 2022 23:32 utc | 98

@93 @95
Is it still full moon?

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 12 2022 23:33 utc | 99

The West’s biggest nightmare is that Russia drags this out for many years. Doing so will destroy the EU’s and NATO’s reputation for peace and economic prosperity.
Moreover, the West wanted Russia to occupy all of Ukraine and get bogged down in an insurgency. But that will not happen, since Russia will not take all of Ukraine. Instead, it looks like they will take the east and the south.
And they will bomb the rest of the country, leave it with no infrastructure, turn it into a wasteland. Who will rebuild the wasteland ? Nobody. Every time the West tries to rebuild it, it will get destroyed.
Meanwhile, the Arab and Muslim world, India, China, the rest of Asia and Latin America will move onwards. They will de-dollarize, grow their economies and industrialize further.
Ukraine has become a trap for the West.

Posted by: Augustus Caesar | Dec 12 2022 23:36 utc | 100