Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
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December 11, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-222
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Posted by: logosApplied | Dec 11 2022 19:34 utc | 86 Posted by: unimperator | Dec 11 2022 20:31 utc | 101 I am shocked, shocked to find out that the Ribbentrop-Molotov carving board is alive, well, and claiming its newest carcass to be butchered: Ukraine. Posted by: Ed | Dec 11 2022 20:39 utc | 103 Posted by: Exile | Dec 11 2022 19:20 utc | 81 “Belgrade prevailed in that conflict. UNSC 1244 my friend” Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 11 2022 20:42 utc | 104 Posted by: logosApplied | Dec 11 2022 19:34 utc | 86 Posted by: Greg Galloway | Dec 11 2022 20:51 utc | 105 Posted by: whirlX | Dec 11 2022 17:59 utc | 65 Posted by: JohninMK | Dec 11 2022 20:52 utc | 106 The Serb Army prevailed by leaving Kosovo? NATO’s KFOR hasn’t spent the 20+ years there? Posted by: Ed | Dec 11 2022 20:57 utc | 107 After Bagration there was nothing but crumbling back painfully to Hitler’s bunker. Posted by: JohninMK | Dec 11 2022 20:57 utc | 108 Patrick Boyle’s examination of fraudsters makes me think of Zelensky. Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 11 2022 21:05 utc | 109 B9K9 @13 Posted by: grunzt | Dec 11 2022 21:05 utc | 110 Good evening, Posted by: Baerenkopf | Dec 11 2022 21:05 utc | 111 The US has sold 366 Abrams tanks to Poland. Call me sceptic. The contract might just be a way for the US to claim innocence when the tanks end up in Ukraine. Posted by: Passerby | Dec 11 2022 21:10 utc | 112 NeoFeudal (39) Posted by: kupkee | Dec 11 2022 21:14 utc | 113 Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 11 2022 16:55 utc | 39 Posted by: slippery | Dec 11 2022 21:20 utc | 114 “I don’t think the propaganda is as intense in this land of free speech” Posted by: Goldhoarder | Dec 11 2022 21:27 utc | 115 Posted by: laguerre | Dec 11 2022 19:01 utc | 79 Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 11 2022 21:33 utc | 116 Merkel had no influence. Posted by: Arioch | Dec 11 2022 21:34 utc | 117 Patton died in 1945 Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 11 2022 21:36 utc | 118 In my mind more US weapons and facilities going to Poland is a sort of slow creep into the war. Much needs to be prepared. Posted by: circumspect | Dec 11 2022 21:37 utc | 119 @ bar Posted by: K | Dec 11 2022 21:39 utc | 120 #2-#16 Posted by: Baerenkopf | Dec 11 2022 21:46 utc | 121 The U$A (united scammers of america) have only one main objective in Ukraine; To prolong the war, and weaken Russia, at the behest of our multi-national corporations. its all about commercial global hegemony, so relax, ” its just business” Posted by: vetinLA | Dec 11 2022 21:47 utc | 122
See my comment at 80. The more logical conclusion is that Russia did know. Donbass originally wanted independence, not to become part of Russia. So Russia said fine, here is what independence looks like, with very limited arms and humanitarian support. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 11 2022 21:50 utc | 123 K @119 Posted by: grunzt | Dec 11 2022 21:54 utc | 125 K @119– The Ukrainian Twitterverse and others are boasting that Wagner HQ in Donbass was hit with a missile. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 11 2022 22:00 utc | 127 Hilarious to hear that Stalin relied on British Bletchley Park stuff. With Soviet spies inside Britain, Berlin and Tokyo, the best Bletchley would have had to offer Stalin would be confirmation of what was already known, or confirmation that untrustworthy Churchill was leading the Soviets into another Charge of the Light Brigade Disaster. Posted by: kupkee | Dec 11 2022 22:01 utc | 128 “US reluctant to send cluster munitions to Ukraine – media” Posted by: Ed | Dec 11 2022 22:13 utc | 129 General Surovikin is waiting on General Weather’s green light before mobilizing to any great extent within Ukraine. General Weather is saying the mud will remain in the fields and dirt roads until at least after December 27 according to the Donetsk City weather forecast. General Surovikin does not want to be a stuck-in-mud so he carefully listens to General Weather’s advice. Posted by: young | Dec 11 2022 22:18 utc | 130 B9k9 | Dec 11 2022 15:02 utc | 13 Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 11 2022 22:28 utc | 131 Merkel is likely telling the truth about her prior knowledge and duplicity. But her recent statement confirms to the Russian public, Putin’s position that the west is “not agreement capable” and gives Russia no alternative but to continue the conflict and not negotiate. One has to assume then that was the intention of her remarks. Posted by: Ed | Dec 11 2022 22:32 utc | 132 Likklemore | Dec 11 2022 17:41 utc | 55 Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 11 2022 22:36 utc | 133 @Ed Posted by: Ćevapčići | Dec 11 2022 22:38 utc | 134 .British foreign secretary James Cleverly issues a statement supporting the U.S. assessment, adding that “the UK will continue to expose this desperate alliance and hold both countries to account. Iran is now one of Russia’s top military backers,” Cleverly said. Posted by: Michigan Dude | Dec 11 2022 22:43 utc | 135 I like Hugo’s thesis that Merkel, constrained by western threats and political concerns, still managed to provide Russia with a causa belli for the SMO by saying out loud that the west wanted to give time to allow NATO to build up the Ukrainian military so they could attack the Donbass. Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 11 2022 22:47 utc | 136 Hugo | Dec 11 2022 14:12 utc | 2 Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Dec 11 2022 22:52 utc | 137 «You guys should read the western Google curated news feeds. It may be full of propoganda but they wrap it around actual information.» Posted by: Blissex | Dec 11 2022 23:09 utc | 139 Posted by: Goldhoarder | Dec 11 2022 21:27 utc | 114 Posted by: dust | Dec 11 2022 23:10 utc | 140 @Don Bacon (7). ” Merkel was in a strange manner, and implicitly giving putin the causus belli for the start of SMO. Posted by: Rob | Dec 11 2022 23:23 utc | 141 Hey Patton and Churchills ghosts, or ideological successors. Its obviously alternate history so it doesn’t matter lol. Posted by: neofeudalfuture | Dec 11 2022 23:27 utc | 142 The Empire is collapsing but the Republic can easily be a great power for another century. Posted by: B9k9 | Dec 11 2022 23:36 utc | 143 “The Ukrainian Twitterverse and others are boasting that Wagner HQ in Donbass was hit with a missile. Posted by: ka | Dec 11 2022 23:41 utc | 144 Hard to believe that these 2 high level close officials made mistakes ? Being Prime minister and DOD minister of the same german government at the time of Minsk agreement negotiation accord, I think that these two stances are linked and should have a political sense ! I’m curious to know ? Posted by: unimperator | Dec 11 2022 23:48 utc | 145 Russia should announce that they see the oil price cap as an act of war and see how fast the countries who are implementing it back down. Posted by: D J G | Dec 11 2022 23:52 utc | 146 unimperator | Dec 11 2022 15:59 utc | 28 Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 0:00 utc | 147 @ Blissex | Dec 11 2022 23:09 utc | 138 Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 0:00 utc | 146 Posted by: unimperator | Dec 12 2022 0:11 utc | 149 Am going to ignore the fuckwit warmongers and off topic BrexShitheads and Mutti fuckers and keep it about the folly of escalation by the natzos and Ukrops Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 12 2022 0:12 utc | 150 Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 11 2022 22:36 utc | 132 Posted by: Likklemore | Dec 12 2022 0:19 utc | 151 From Reuters with the title Zelenskiy’s talks with other leaders signal diplomatic flurry around Ukraine
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 12 2022 0:23 utc | 152 If you want top quality commentary on Ukraines civil war and Russias SMO, then you wont get better than: Posted by: HERMIUS | Dec 12 2022 0:29 utc | 153 @Klaatu, @all Posted by: S.P. Korolev | Dec 12 2022 1:38 utc | 154 Posted by: Outraged | Dec 12 2022 0:09 utc | 147 Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 12 2022 2:21 utc | 155 Posted by: Outraged | Dec 12 2022 0:09 utc | 147 “DOD/DIA bases on USSR border in PRC post 1972 ?” Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 12 2022 2:28 utc | 156
That was Saturday, Melitopol is not in Donbass. I am referring to reports there was a missile attack on Wagner HQ in Kadiivka, Luhansk region on Sunday. The MSM reports all say Ukrainian officials were the source, but not independently confirmed. So likely an exaggeration or outright lie. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 12 2022 2:38 utc | 157 “Unlike the Russians, Ukraine support troops used forklifts to move ammunition and other supplies onto and off trucks. The Russians still do it by hand, which often means that it doesn’t get done if there are not enough troops to do it. The invading Russians forces had few or none of the support services Ukraine provides for its own troops. This has provided Ukrainian troops with a major advantage. Unlike Russian troops in Ukraine, Ukrainian soldiers suffer less from malnutrition, cold weather, and untreated wounds.” Posted by: Wokechoke | Dec 12 2022 2:48 utc | 158 From the Kremlin: “The United States approved directly striking Russia. territory. In its turn, Russia will directly strike the United States, Putin says.” Posted by: Elmagnostic | Dec 12 2022 2:53 utc | 159
Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 3:41 utc | 160
Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 3:43 utc | 161 -// From the Kremlin: “The United States approved directly striking Russia. territory. In its turn, Russia will directly strike the United States, Putin says.” //- Posted by: blues | Dec 12 2022 3:44 utc | 162
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/24545 Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 3:45 utc | 163
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/24553 Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 3:47 utc | 164
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/24570 Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 3:51 utc | 165 Outraged | Dec 12 2022 0:09 utc | 147 Posted by: Doug Hillman | Dec 12 2022 4:25 utc | 166 Opport Knocks | Dec 12 2022 2:38 utc | 157 Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 12 2022 4:43 utc | 167 Am going to ignore … off topic BrexShitheads Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 12 2022 5:01 utc | 168 @ B9k9 142 Posted by: Giyane | Dec 12 2022 5:21 utc | 169 Posted by: S.P. Korolev | Dec 12 2022 1:38 utc | 153 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 12 2022 6:09 utc | 170
Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 6:12 utc | 171 Posted by: Hugo | Dec 11 2022 17:53 utc | 61 Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 12 2022 6:14 utc | 172
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/24617 Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 6:14 utc | 173 @Biswapriya Purkayast 1 Posted by: Hermit | Dec 12 2022 6:17 utc | 174 Wonder what this portends if accurate? Posted by: Jerr | Dec 12 2022 6:31 utc | 175
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/24618 Posted by: Down South | Dec 12 2022 6:37 utc | 176 Re: Posted by: Perimetr | Dec 12 2022 6:39 utc | 177 @Ed Posted by: MiniMo | Dec 12 2022 6:46 utc | 178 The ussr was all hollow only saved by Nazi tech and slave scientists. Otherwise Patton and Churchill would’ve rolled up the red menace in the 50s. Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Dec 12 2022 7:08 utc | 179
If true – and I tend to believe it – then Russia has capability for Strategic First Strike upon continental US (with very little odd of retaliation). Posted by: Greg Galloway | Dec 12 2022 7:32 utc | 181 wagner base being hit . only source so far is the quote from uk foreign minister. so i assume its baloney. i looked about for info. nothing. probably just cope for all the good work in the last few weeks and the obvious need to bolster the seemingly farcical mozarts. mozarts didnt win the forest battle of the bands the other day. Posted by: hankster | Dec 12 2022 7:55 utc | 182
I have a bottle of “Krimskoye” champagne at home, which was produced in that factory. As soon as they conquered Bakhmut completely I will open it 😉 Posted by: Helmuth von Moltke | Dec 12 2022 7:56 utc | 183 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 12 2022 6:09 utc | 170
I couldn’t find the transcripts either. Posted by: waynorinorway | Dec 12 2022 8:08 utc | 184 K @119 Posted by: Martina | Dec 12 2022 8:12 utc | 185 @ Doug Hillman | Dec 12 2022 4:25 utc | 166
Considering modern MBTs or IFV/APCs are as rare as hens teeth in the now ‘Zombiefied’ AFU, the drivers of the ‘ISIS’-style pick-up ‘Technicals’ & myriad EU SUVs, even civvy passenger vehs, obviously need the abbreviated ‘crash’ courses, to reach the ‘frontline’, on the way to Valhalla. Such ‘winning’, not. Posted by: MiniMo | Dec 12 2022 6:46 utc | 178 Posted by: Tim | Dec 12 2022 8:26 utc | 187 Generally to all but especially to : Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 12 2022 8:32 utc | 188 @ Hermit | Dec 12 2022 6:17 utc | 174
@Outraged | Dec 12 2022 8:45 utc | 189
One could buy decent quality metals in Russia. 😉 Posted by: Goingo | Dec 12 2022 8:54 utc | 190 Greg Galloway @ 181 Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 12 2022 8:55 utc | 191 @Posted by: BroncoBilly | Dec 11 2022 19:27 utc | 83 Posted by: JamesB | Dec 12 2022 9:09 utc | 192 Passerby @ 111 Posted by: oldhipie | Dec 12 2022 9:19 utc | 193 Posted by: JamesB | Dec 12 2022 9:09 utc | 192 Posted by: Peter Williams | Dec 12 2022 9:28 utc | 194 Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 12 2022 8:32 utc | 188 Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 12 2022 9:33 utc | 195 @ Goingo | Dec 12 2022 8:54 utc | 190 Russia fires old missiles: Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 12 2022 10:26 utc | 197 Posted by: waynorinorway | Dec 12 2022 Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 12 2022 10:27 utc | 198 The British tend to be underestimated here. They have been active in distant wars for a very long time (hundreds of years). As they are today, their intelligence services may employ more persons than their army, navy or air force. In all of their chicanery only the Americans have bested them and bested them badly. Think of FDR bankrupting them and the Eisenhower stripping them of their role as a global player at Suez. Those things left a mark. Posted by: Leander Starr | Dec 12 2022 10:47 utc | 199 when Russia wins this war, the propaganda will possibly shift to “Russia’s greatest strategic mistake was winning this war, and here’s why………..”. either that or Ukraine will get dumped in the memory hole like Afghanistan. Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 12 2022 10:53 utc | 200 |
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