Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 08, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-220

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on December 8, 2022 at 15:51 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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catdog @3: "I hope that RU's small successes on the Donbass front are not only happening because Ukraine is pooling its best troops and weapons for a major offensive elsewhere, like it did a few months ago."

Really? If you are anti-Nazi then that is exactly what you want, isn't it?

Do keep in mind that will make the Russians defenders on the battlefield and the defenders typically have a three to one advantage over the side launching the offensive. It is true that the Ukraine doesn't benefit from this because the Russians have a decisive artillery advantage and they are not in a hurry to advance, while the Ukrainians are in a hurry and have to rely upon the old fashioned bum rush, hoping to throw more corpses into the grinder than the grinder can process so that the overflow from the meat grinder can possibly do some damage to the Russians. The classic zombie horde approach: enough zombies can overwhelm the best defenses.

In any case the Ukrainians' offensives were disasters for them, with casualty rates and equipment losses that went stratospheric into the horror show realm.

Every time the Ukraine gets knocked down the NATOadies pick them back up and push them back into the fight. The pro-NATO crowd (NAFO? What does that stand for? North American Fatties Organization? The New Atlantic Faggotry Outfit? Now All Fairies Online? What?) doesn't care about the population of the territory formerly know as the Ukraine being slaughtered. The pro-NATO crowd just wants to see Russia hurt. After all, they cannot be so stupid as to think that the Ukraine can win.

With this in mind the quickest way to end the death agony of the country formerly known as the Ukraine is for the Nazi zombie hordes to keep trying major offensives until there is nothing left for the NATOadies to scrape off the ground and throw back into the fight. Doubtless another major Ukrainian offensive is exactly what General Armageddon wants.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 9 2022 13:58 utc | 301

Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2022 13:28 utc | 319
"The American dream moved to Russia. Russia now is what America thought it was."

Well said. Thank you.

Posted by: Mexicana | Dec 9 2022 14:04 utc | 302

They are NOT recruits. They are all recalled active reservists, young, fit & healthy, who have all previously completed a minimum of 1 years prior full-time service (obligatory conscription or contracted professional) within the last 5 years.

They are recalled veterans with updated refresher training from current combat veterans re SMO. NOT recruits.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 9 2022 13:52 utc | 325

Thank you for the clarification on that. If they are reservists, then there is no "onboarding" process - all of them are familiar with military protocol and discipline in which case they should be able to make immediate contributions.

Posted by: Ursula Zandt | Dec 9 2022 14:06 utc | 303

Russia unable to stop heavy ukrainian attacks in Donetsk past hours

"Eyewitnesses publish a video of the consequences of a Ukrainian shell hitting the Druzhba hotel in the center of Donetsk."
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/16415

"Right now in Donetsk - there is a hit by Ukrainian multiple rocket launchers."
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/16414

"The centre of Donetsk is now under Ukrainian shelling"
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/16413

"The very center of Donetsk under shelling again
According to the JCCC, at 14:30 from the positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine 10 rockets fired from MLRS BM-21 "Grad" in Voroshilovsky district of Donetsk"
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/16419

"'A shell landed in the area of the campus.' Another shelling of the center of Donetsk by the Ukrainian military. This time one of the shells hit the University building. There is no information about victims yet. "
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/16420

Posted by: Z/anon | Dec 9 2022 14:08 utc | 304

@ oldhippie | Dec 9 2022 13:53 utc | 326

Have no fear my friend. You were not in the 21% calced. :)

Was just vocalizing personal disgust with the obvious twolls, their 'puppets' & obvious AI wingman-bots. We have some determined & moderately clever ones amongst us lately, particularly nasty & vicious attack dogs. Though doubt few MoA vets nor long-timers are/will be fooled. The inner voice of the 'regular' ones changes with the tasking/re-assignment, no ?

Ultimately it is inconvenient, merely unpleasant white noise, cannot sustain their persona's nor covers given the quantity of posts. Attempts to build faux cred amongst themselves using bots & puppets is puerile.

Wish I had a script to block their nics. ;)

Very meta.

2c up. What can I get you at the Bar ?

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 9 2022 14:12 utc | 305

The Minsk Agreements were all about stalling for time to build Ukraine's arsenal of weapons up, there was no intention of a Ukrainian president ever signing them.


" The statement of former German Chancellor Angela Merkel that the Minsk agreements were signed in order to give the Kiev regime time to "become stronger" explains the current position of the West in the Ukrainian conflict, said Deputy Permanent Representative of Russia Maxim Buyakevich.
Words about the Minsk agreements Merkel (who held office from 2005 to 2021) said in an interview with the daily Die Zeit on Wednesday.Berlinand the collective West was not going to implement the Minsk agreements, but used the time won to pump upKievweapons,"


https://ria.ru/20221209/merkel-1837390886.html


Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 9 2022 14:20 utc | 306

@ Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 9 2022 3:40 utc | 230

Does it have bunkers with fully supplied troops in it that can hold off for 12 hours? Is there defensive structures to hinder a naval landing?

Pre sited artillery to fire on likely landing spots?

Night vision gear and 24 7 monitoring for Ukrainian frogmen swimming in at night?

A strong line on the exit to lock in Ukrainian invaders into a kill zone?


They're gonna do something there is Russia fighting a war or what?

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 9 2022 14:22 utc | 307

How long will their training be?
Are they being trained now? (and another question, 'What are they doing now?')
Are they destined exclusively for support roles or will they be sent to the front?

-Posted by: Ursula Zandt | Dec 9 2022 13:33 utc | 320
---------

Most of that has been answered in news over the last months, including some specific statements from Putin just yesterday when responding to question asked by press.
I will TLDR what was said as it relates to your question. ~300k were mobilized, consisting mostly of those with some prior military service. Of those ~300k, about 1/2 or ~150k are already assigned and in the SMO operational theater (meaning mobilization process for those collectively didn't take longer than ~2mo max). It was further stated that about 1/2 or 75k of the 150k in the theater of operations have been assigned to front-line combat units, the remaining 1/2 are serving in 2nd and 3rd line units that also have roles such as civil defense, logistics, and some are receiving additional in-theater training. It was further stated the remaining ~150k are still in training process at ruMoD facilities throughout Russia outside of the theater, and he said it would be fair to refer to the latter as a 'combat reserve of sorts'. Make what you will of that information, it was part of an answer to question about 'is their a need to do more\larger mobilizations' - too which is answer was along the lines of such talk is premature, and then talked about the aforementioned.

so:
q1. Initially anywhere from 3w to 8weeks it would seem, perhaps longer now it would seem on the surface than for the initial ~150k who are already in theater.
q2. yes
q3. both, Putin suggests it's roughly evenly split, thus far.

Posted by: knighthawk | Dec 9 2022 14:30 utc | 308

Norwegian | Dec 9 2022 7:16 utc | 263 - Re: Telegram w/o cell phone. Thanks, I'll check it out and report back here.

Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2022 2:01 utc | 203 -
"No pic evidence whatsoever of the missile models. Plenty of blog chatter assumption."
I wouldn't expect any forthcoming from Russia. They have no need (and it would be uncharacteristic of them) to 'prove' anything to anybody here. It would be different if this involved a strike on civilians and Russia wanted to remove any doubt. As it is, Gavrilov's statements were a good enough hint. If nothing else, it removes any doubt that it was something else.

"Ukraine channels say brit missiles."
I discounted this pretty quickly. Ukraine has no practical reason to 'leak' this if true. It came too quickly on the heels of the Brimstone reports (which are unrelated and a completely different kind of missile). UK isn't sending ballistic and/or cruise missiles to Ukraine for the same reason the U.S. hasn't sent any: using them against targets deep in Russia would basically amount to a declaration of war. Not from the UK/US/NATO side, who would whine about legal loopholes and 'right to arm' and other such nonsense. It is Russia that would consider it an overt act of war, and their opinion is the only one that matters.

These ancient cruise missile attacks were for bragging rights by Ukraine and (at best) they only had a handful they can ever modify/use. They're Zelensky throwing a temper tantrum because his US/NATO arms suppliers won't send him the good stuff. Which is problematic because the actions of a failing, belligerent little pawn like Zelensky is exactly how a chain of events inadvertently leads to WWIII.

SeanAU | Dec 9 2022 10:06 utc | 285 - I noted with especial significance Col. MacGregor's statements about Russia changing (or clarifying) it's 'No first use' posture. Russia WILL use nukes first if it thinks US/NATO is preparing a nuclear strike on Russia. Again, US naivety assumes that Russia will technically have to wait for a mushroom cloud over Moscow before the global rules-based-order allows Russia to 'legally' retaliate. Russia simply emphasizing they are not that stupid. If the US or NATO starts fussing with their nukes on European bases, then they will get glassed first. What if the US or NATO wasn't really planning a nuclear first strike? Russia: Too bad. Glass first, ask questions and offer apologies later.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Dec 9 2022 14:34 utc | 309

@ Eighthman | Dec 9 2022 12:44 utc | 309

Translated from Russian text:

Unsuccessful attack by the Ukrainian Armed Forces near Peski

Ukrainian formations made another offensive attempt near Donetsk. A large convoy of 15 BMPs, MT-LBs and Mastiff armored vehicles advanced from Pervomayskoye to Vodyane and headed in the direction of Peski.

Timely detection made it possible to promptly take measures to stop the Ukrainian units from breaking through. The infantry and armored vehicles came under heavy fire from artillerymen of the 238th brigade of the RF Armed Forces, tankers, as well as fighters of the Sparta and Somali battalions.

In the course of the fire the enemy suffered heavy losses, losing several vehicles irretrievably. The AFU infantry was forced to retreat and retreat to their original lines.

Since the Ukrainian Forces lost Peski, they had repeatedly sent armored groups there to retake the settlement. Each such attack ended with the enemy losing personnel and equipment. However, the AFU sends more and more forces into these suicidal offensives.

Coordinates: 48.083904, 37.655331

We post all our videos on our channel on RuTube and our VK page

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 9 2022 14:35 utc | 310

reply to 330

Sadly, a few will likely die or suffer injury in Donetsk. At the same time, Ukraine will lose a battalion every day. This is the rope a dope war of attrition in which Russia will prevail.

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 9 2022 14:35 utc | 311

Who was that guy who used to hunt Nazis? Not the newer one--Germany's Jens Rommel--who in 2016 confessed there was getting to be too few Nazis to find. Give Jens cookie, tell him about the Maiden putsch he missed in 2014.

Oh, head slap! I was thinking of Simon Wiesenthal! I grew up with his noble tenacity. Problem solved. Case closed. I'll think of another question to ask at the press conference.

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Dec 9 2022 14:38 utc | 312

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 9 2022 14:35 utc | 336

Here's a bit of the drone video of what was going on there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TaNGUpmIK8

Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 9 2022 14:47 utc | 313

Nobody can surrender to bombers in the sky or artillerymen kilometers away. Donetsk is the front still a lot of military resources flow through it, shrug? What is Ukraines supposed to do? Maybe they're trying to interrupt Russian military moves. Ukraine cries civilian everytime Russia fires something, probably goes both ways

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 9 2022 14:52 utc | 314

@ Tom_12 | Dec 9 2022 14:47 utc | 339

Thank you kindly.

Mein Gott. A hellscape. Comment:

Prime example of the force multiplier that is real-time unarmed loitering tactical surveillance drones.

Cover, concealment, obscuration, using terrain features re ground LOS, tactical maneuver during advance to contact is completely redundant, nullified. FUPs completely exposed. APCs as opposed to Heavy IFVs offer very minimal(illusory) protection under such circumstances.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 9 2022 15:06 utc | 315

@ Neofeudalfuture | Dec 9 2022 14:52 utc | 340

There have been numerous AFU formal surrenders to surveillance drones ...

Posted by: Outrage | Dec 9 2022 15:08 utc | 316

If we define a Nazi as a violent , supremacist conservative

If we define "White" as a dark skinned person of sub-Saharan African descent, then "Whites" have the highest crime rate per capita in the US.

Posted by: c matt | Dec 9 2022 15:10 utc | 317

Posted by: rk | Dec 9 2022 13:43 utc | 321

Be patient.

I see you've learned, finally.

Didn't Baldie retreat from Kherson without a fight,

Nope. Try again. We covered this, remember?

losing Russian territory?

Nope. Try again. We covered this, remember?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 9 2022 15:13 utc | 318

Oh, head slap! I was thinking of Simon Wiesenthal ! I grew up with his noble tenacity.

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Dec 9 2022 14:38 utc | 338

I recall reading about his glorious exploits. In one case they accused a Pole of being a Gestapo officer. The case went so far as to revoke the man's US citizenship. Now in this case there was a very simple bit of evidence that should have thrown the whole thing out, the guy was 18-19 yrs old when he supposedly did the dirty deeds as a Gestapo Officer. The Man of Law who didn't take notice of this was a man named Judge Julius Hoffman. Check his "Early Life and Education" section in Wiki.

The poor soul who went through Hell thanks to this creature called Simon Wiesenthal was this man

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walus_denaturalization_case

I use a link to Wiki simply for expediency, because the deep details can be found but it takes a bit of work.

This case made the big big news in its day. What didn't make the big big news was how it all ended. It took some Germans to save this poor man. Nearly everyone else involved let the Weezel and Company do as they wished !!!! A familiar pattern can be found in this case for those that have eyes.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 9 2022 15:14 utc | 319

Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 9 2022 13:09 utc | 316

Even More Pathetic Then.

Same result in the end.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 9 2022 15:15 utc | 320

Posted by: Z/anon | Dec 9 2022 14:08 utc | 330

That all?

Pretty pathetic if they must resort to taking pot shots at a little town in the middle of the sticks.

What's the strategic advantage?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 9 2022 15:21 utc | 321

Brother Ma | Dec 8 2022 23:13 utc | 139

Why even have an airforce if you have air superiority and a “ no- flight zone” for Nato aeroplanes , but are scared to fly yourself because you weren’t able to get 99percent of all AD out of action? When will any power ever be able to do that anyway? What is going on

It’s the reality of a conflict with a “near peer”.
U$ “ air superiority/ supremacy” is oft quoted, but this was only ever attained against *much* weaker opponents.
And even the term “no fly zone” applies to Libya, where the U$ dictated that Gaddafi be prohibited from using his airforce.
Early in the sloSMO “voices” in the U$ called for establishing a “no fly zone” over Ukraine for Russia.
“Yeah, good luck with that”, was the Pentagon reply.
Second point.
The RuAF does sorties daily. Not over the full territory of Ukraine, but the airforce does contribute to the sloSMO…. we don’t here about the because the narrative is the Russians have been denied access to Ukrainian skies.
Not so.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 9 2022 15:22 utc | 322

Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 9 2022 0:43 ut
…”Meanwhile the same Amerikastanis arm everyone from Mexican drug cartels to Ukranazis to ISIS to Kurds and the MeK terrorists in Iran.”
That’s the point.
They will not tolerate competition…
Gang wars are about “turf”…

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 9 2022 15:37 utc | 323

Posted by: c matt | Dec 9 2022 15:10 utc | 343

Ridiculous. Do you really claim that Nazis were ,and are , not supremacist, Violent and conservative in outlook?

Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 9 2022 15:47 utc | 324

Putin must definitively respond to these attacks on Russia, which were seemingly conducted, at least in some capacity, by NATO.

I've heard all the arguments about how he is trying to prevent a Nuclear war et al, but by allowing these types of attacks to continue unanswered, he is actually only increasing the chances of one starting.

NATO will not stop with these provocations until there are consequences, and Putin's continuous lack of action is not only going to encourage NATO, it is eventually going to hurt him politically.

Nobody wants a Nuclear war, and it's all hunkydory to keep claiming that the SMO is going exactly as planned (which it quite clearly is not), but if Putin was not willing to prosecute this at every level, he should not have started it until he was.

Sadly, this confrontation may very well come down to a choice between Nuclear war or capitulation, it is not something that one contemplates easily.

To be clear, I am very much with the Russian side here, and while I understand the virtue of the 'long game', letting a side that claims it is not involved in the war provide your enemy with billions in weapons and logistical support and then allowing that side to get away with several attacks on Russia proper is a mistake.

"Imperfect action is better than perfect inaction" Harry Truman.


Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Dec 9 2022 15:50 utc | 325

Tom12@339....looks like an arty version of NASCAR which would add a degree of excitement for US fans to have a few mortar tubes handy, screw the driving in circles bull shit.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 9 2022 15:50 utc | 326

They're gonna do something there (Kinburn Spit) is Russia fighting a war or what?

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 9 2022 14:22 utc | 333

It is reported that Russia relocated 37 residents, so there is no one left to monitor the seagulls snakes and turtles.

The last landing attempt there was easily rebuffed, so I doubt that Russia has a blind spot there. Even if NATO/Ukraine manages to land a small force there, what are they going to do without heavy equipment.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 9 2022 15:58 utc | 327

Outraged @ 331

Understood.

I am partial to The Aberlour single malt. And gin martinis with 1950s quantity of vermouth. Most any IPA is worth sampling and at my age am surviving a beer better than spirits.

I'll read your posts if you'll read mine.

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 9 2022 15:59 utc | 328

@DakotaRog 305

Your numbers give cause for optimism. In theory. What does it look like in practice? I'll take my town on the edge of Germany as an example. A village with 400 inhabitants. All around me there are two small farmers, a large farm for growing crops and cattle, pigs and a poultry farm.

Everything can be reached on foot or by bicycle. That is important. Because during the blackout after an EMP or destruction of the substations, which will last for years, there are no cars because there is no more gasoline. Who lives close enough to where the food is produced to be able to reach it? Because distribution no longer takes place because of the lack of fuel.

The lack of energy also spells doom for animal husbandry. Without electricity and machines, the animals can neither be fed nor milked. The huge stables cannot be cleaned manually either. All animals will have to be emergency slaughtered. And where to put the meat? It can be smoked, salted or preserved in jars. If you have energy and knowledge. So there will be mountains of stinking carcasses, because the meat cannot be utilized.

Let's try plant cultivation. This is now an industry that requires masses of energy and especially chemistry. If one were to try to cultivate plants manually, one quickly finds that there are not enough people to do it, there is not enough fertilizer, and there are not enough tools and horses to pull the plow across the field. But assuming you have somehow managed to get the seed into the ground, you are at the mercy of the whim of the weather and are subsequently faced with the problem of how to harvest the crop. The harvest will be very small, because today's agriculture can not do without chemicals.

You need people who know how to operate and sharpen a scythe. I learned that 5 years ago. It takes a while to master it. Then you're faced with the problem of how to get the crop into storage to thresh the grain. Because horse-drawn wagons don't exist anymore. Even though in real life most people will have starved to death before there's even a harvest to bring in, let's just assume it's successful. Then they will have a problem the following year at the latest. Because all the seed that is sold is not capable of reproduction. In the past, the farmer kept part of the harvest to use for sowing the next year. That no longer works. As part of my preparation for the coming situation, I asked the local farmers and was very frustrated with the answers.

And what about hunting? Not everyone who owns a firearm can hunt with it or lives near a forest rich in game. I can only write about Germany now. It was calculated that the forests would be empty within a month if people had the idea of getting their meat from there.

Who has a realistic chance to survive? The Amish and some permaculture freaks. In theory. In practice, they will have to defend themselves against masses of starving people. Will they succeed?

Posted by: Uwe | Dec 9 2022 16:00 utc | 329

Doctorow looks at the big picture:
"...It is patently obvious that the change of direction in the Middle East against the United States and towards the rising world power, China, as well as towards its close ally Russia, was prompted precisely by the US sanctions on Russia, by the freezing of 350 billion dollars of Russian assets on deposit in the West. These exceptional and unprecedented punishments could just as easily be applied to Riyadh at any time for a multitude of reasons. And, unlike Russia, the Saudis could not possibly resist an economic and financial assault from the West..."
https://gilbertdoctorow.com/

He argues that the dollar's day is done, and that it is all thanks to VV Putin.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 9 2022 16:05 utc | 330

He argues that the dollar's day is done, and that it is all thanks to VV Putin.

During WW2 British Merchant Marine Brough oil from Texas to UK and men died as Germans torpedoed tankers (and their pay ceased riot the moment they were torpedoed) - In those days USA produced 50% global oil.

US power was based on having 50% global share in oil and in gold reserves and manufacturing capacity.

Today USA has what ?

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Dec 9 2022 16:11 utc | 331

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 9 2022 15:59 utc | 354

Hook Norton ? Greene King Abbot ? Spitfire ? Witches of Pendel ?

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Dec 9 2022 16:12 utc | 332

"The American dream moved to Russia. Russia now is what America thought it was."

Well said. Thank you.

Posted by: Mexicana | Dec 9 2022 14:04 utc | 328

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Dec 9 2022 16:15 utc | 333

Today USA has what ?
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Dec 9 2022 16:11 utc | 357

---

Intellectual property rights.

Posted by: too scents | Dec 9 2022 16:15 utc | 334

"..while I understand the virtue of the 'long game', letting a side that claims it is not involved in the war provide your enemy with billions in weapons and logistical support and then allowing that side to get away with several attacks on Russia proper is a mistake..."
Bob Jenkins@351

It is hard to disagree except that the figures on 'Defense' spending are very clear: Russia is outspent currently on Defence by NATO about 20:1. And this imbalance goes back a long way. The US really has been, potentially and in terms of its commitment to war the sole superpower for decades now. And NATO, as well as other allies, are simply auxiliaries adding men, money and munitions to the imperial ranks.

In other words, as Doctorow puts it in his column today, Russia is the David in this contest against Goliath and it is proceeding very cautiously, partly because it understands NATO's latent power and partly, too, because it does not trust Washington, ruled by a faction deeply sympathetic to the Nazi death cult, to respond rationally, particularly when it comes face to face with defeat.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 9 2022 16:16 utc | 335

@ Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 9 2022 15:58 utc | 353

I dunno small beachheads can turn into larger ones then its artillery covering the chokepoint into Crimea. The war ending disaster that could be necessitates serious and ongoing attention. Because it didn't work the first time doesnt mean it can't never work. Its unprofessional to simply ignore it. It's that kind of thinking that let the Russians keep their ships and planes moored out in the open for day after day till they got nailed.

They've said themselves its a fight against nato, but yet they act like its just the Ukrainians. Nato has the money to have actual 4d chess players on board and they are much, much better than the Russian military thinkers. Russia needs to think like an underdog.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 9 2022 16:29 utc | 336

@360 (Bevin)

I don't disagree, the problem is then, was losing a foregone conclusion.

NATO will not stop this, that is patently clear at this point, and not only will they not stop, they will escalate.

Again, I reiterate that I do understand the cautious approach, but only to a point.

It was clearly stated that attacking Russia proper would be 'crossing a red line'. The line has been crossed multiple times with absolutely no response apart from lip service (better just to not talk if that's all you're going to do).

I think we all want to believe that the 'death by 1000 cuts' approach will prevail and it very well might. If you look at the big picture, there is an effect and it is clearly frustrating the US, but it is a complicated game, and one where waiting too long may prove detrimental to the RF.

For example, a common argument I hear is that the US is 'exhausting it's military' by supplying the Ukraine. I'm not sure I buy this, maybe howitzers and HIMARs, but I haven't seen any Apaches, Warthogs, Abrams (I could go on and on).

As much as people claim the US wants to start a war (conventional or otherwise), their actions tell a different story. They want others to fight while they do not get directly involved. Since getting directly involved is something I suspect they fear, why not present them with that eventuality. It might be a gamble, but so is letting their proxies bomb your country while the US sits back and watches from thousands of miles away.

Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Dec 9 2022 16:32 utc | 337

In other words, as Doctorow puts it in his column today, Russia is the David in this contest against Goliath and it is proceeding very cautiously, partly because it understands NATO's latent power and partly, too, because it does not trust Washington, ruled by a faction deeply sympathetic to the Nazi death cult, to respond rationally, particularly when it comes face to face with defeat.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 9 2022 16:16 utc | 360

Putin has always been parsimonious in his use of resources; and that is a great virtue in a strategic planner who starts with a large deficit to make up, as he did.

I think that is part of the motive of those who want him to take extravagant action, they hope to get him to deplete his resources and over-reach. More projection.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 9 2022 16:36 utc | 338

Paul Greenwood @ 358

Don't know any of those. Have not had a one that was bad. Orange Door from Sketchbook is a favorite. Formerly brewed the other side of wall behind my head, they moved about two miles west. Two Hearted Ale from Bells in Kalamazoo was my introduction. They've been recently purchsed by some big Aussie concern, beer seems to have survived. Their seasonal specials were always fantastic, haven't sampled any of those recently. Remember a barleywine/IPA cross they had one Christmas that waa 21%. And in 12 ounce bottles. Got a few friends inebriated on that.

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 9 2022 16:36 utc | 339

He argues that the dollar's day is done, and that it is all thanks to VV Putin.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 9 2022 16:05 utc | 356

The British pound should have been done after WW2 as well, but is still a recognized and respected world reserve and trade settlement currency.

Similarly the US dollar denominated share for trade settlement and foreign reserves will continue its decline, something that was under way well before this conflict. Saying it is "done" is pure hyperbole.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 9 2022 16:45 utc | 340

Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Dec 9 2022 16:32 utc | 362

... For example, a common argument I hear is that the US is 'exhausting it's military' by supplying the Ukraine. I'm not sure I buy this, maybe howitzers and HIMARs, but I haven't seen any Apaches, Warthogs, Abrams (I could go on and on).

No. You cannot go "on and on".

There are only a handful of American weapons that would be useful in a modern combined arms war in Ukraine against an enemy like Russia before the USA is either directly involved on the ground or goes straight to nuclear escalation.

Note the careful qualification in my wording above, it was not chosen carelessly.

Your Apaches, warthogs, Abrahams are going to be next to useless against the type of artillery and missile forces Russia can field. Not even the drones.

Anything more extreme than that is going to be asking for a whole new kind of war with a whole new kind of response from Russia.

Really, the only thing the USA can offer is Himars and targeting.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 9 2022 16:52 utc | 341

Just listened to Putin's press conference in Bishkek, what caught my attention was his answer to a question concerning Borrell's declaration about African countries not knowing who Putin might be or where the Donbass is located.

Please father forgive them, they don't know what they're doing, what sinister clowns the EU bureaucrats are and how much damage they are inflicting on Europe.

The transcript in Russian:

http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/70061

Posted by: Paco | Dec 9 2022 16:58 utc | 342

@366 (Arch Bungle)

Not really my point, more that the US is hardly 'out of weapons' anymore than the RF is 'out of missiles'.

Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Dec 9 2022 16:59 utc | 343

the US is hardly 'out of weapons'
Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Dec 9 2022 16:59 utc | 368

---

The US is diverting earmarked supplies. See Taiwan for example.

JIT supply chains are less than ideal in wartime.

Posted by: too scents | Dec 9 2022 17:14 utc | 344

@Klaatu - You may not even need that caliber. It seems that someone is doing something similar in the US. While there isn't a mention of the caliber of the weapons used in damaging, I would bet it isn't 12.7mm/.50 Caliber.

Posted by: Azrael | Dec 9 2022 17:17 utc | 345

i agree with this statement... apologies if someone already shared it as i can't keep up with the comments on all the threads..

Intel Slava Z
🇷🇺⚡The West has turned Ukraine into a colony and is using the Ukrainian people as cannon fodder, as a battering ram against Russia (c) Putin

Posted by: james | Dec 9 2022 17:18 utc | 346

@DakotaRog 305

See my ibid. “Why Civil Disturbance (and other catastrophes) might cause Civil Collapse and the Death of 95% of Americans” to understand why they are correct. A Sophie to firearms simply exacerbates the scale of the disaster.

Modern agriculture is intended to transform oil into money. Feeding people is an entirely unintended consequence. Which might be why the food that Americans eat originates largely in Mexico, Canada and places further abroad. Confinements without food, drugs, packing plants, distribution channels to clients and a functioning financial system will be among the first to fail.


PS There are about 36 million deer in the USA (contrast that with 94 million cattle and 84 million pigs) with a normal mass of around 75 to 150 kg. So even if we killed them all, and could distribute the meat (and avoid passing on the associated diseases) that is less than 17kg/person. And then they are gone forever, but people will still be hungry.

Posted by: Hermit | Dec 9 2022 17:19 utc | 347

@294 Yes indeed. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
I must day I was surprised to see karlof fall for the attacks on Lavrov. They are obviously intended to wind him up.

Posted by: dh | Dec 9 2022 17:23 utc | 348

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 9 2022 16:52 utc | 366 "Really, the only thing the USA can offer is Himars and targeting."

A million 155mm shells?

Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 9 2022 17:32 utc | 349

@ waynorinorway | Dec 9 2022 5:50 utc | 255

bang on.. i don't expect the growing up to happen any time soon either... cheers..

Posted by: james | Dec 9 2022 17:34 utc | 350

"Things look bad for Ukraine in Bakmut right now."

Yup today during lunchtime, on *mainstream* Tv I saw a report shot in one military hospital of Bakhmut. Wounded soldiers are flooding the available med teams.

We even saw one guy coming with barely any limbs attached to his torso. And there were no blood pouches left to try to save him so a nurse gave her blood to try to save the poor soul.

Scary...

Posted by: Nanker | Dec 9 2022 17:42 utc | 351

A second wave of missile attacks on Donetsk this evening. More burning buildings.

Posted by: rk | Dec 9 2022 17:48 utc | 352

Bob Jenkins | Dec 9 2022 15:50 utc | 351

I think the Ukrainians will argue that the RF are definitely doing something.

Your being ridiculous but thanks for the chuckle.

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 9 2022 17:50 utc | 353

@382 Klaatu

Not sure what you're on about, but laugh it up :P

Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Dec 9 2022 17:57 utc | 354

@ Uwe # 355, @ Hermit #372

Uwe, you must have never made corn alcohol. They made that long before the electric grid was in place and many, many early version internal-combustion farm tractors ran on pure hootch during WWII when civilian gas and diesel was in sort supply. The feds later outlawed that practice but it certainly could be started up again.

Hermit, when I'm picking "squirrel corn" for sale out of my friend's organic corn field this winter, I'll think of you and it will keep me warm :)...

You all think what you want to think, I live here and know my immediate geography at various scales. The people in NYC, LA, and whatever else big place will be on their own if the grid goes down permanently or for a long time. I know what my people will do and we will survive. Good luck to everyone else.

And there will be substantial other such islands and regions that spring up and do the same thing. So, believe what you want to believe and if MoA would survive and come up again after such a devolution western society, I'll tell you how we made it.

Have fun!!

Posted by: DakotaRog | Dec 9 2022 17:57 utc | 355

@ Posted by: Uwe | Dec 9 2022 16:00 utc | 355

Perhaps some perspective.

Chickens can start reproducing (Laying eggs) at 4 months. Farm Families used to stable with 15 or so chickens. Only a small amount of eggs need to be hatched to keep fried chicken and new laying hens going.

Most rural people would set animals free rather than needless slaughter in this scenario. Also, large herds of dairy cows would be sold to those w/o. So a farm with 400 cows would become maybe 50 cows. Everyone else buys cows in groups of 5 - 20 to survive.
Milking is not a problem because everyone is becoming farmers, and not tech workers or Tic-Toc users. Suburban lots are large enough for subsistence farming, if you have to do that to eat.

Survival books on how to make cheese, clothing, etc will be very valuable.

Horse buggies will quickly be made from the beds of pickup trucks.
Small amounts of electricity will be made from a combination of bicycles attached to millions of car generators. No need for Peloton videos.

Labor specialization will still be used. Those that butcher the best will sell their skills. Same for weavers, seamstresses, fisherman, etc. Many will have to learn 4 or more new skills.

Also, many in large cities will perish. That is another story.

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Dec 9 2022 18:01 utc | 356

Donetsk attacked again,

20 MLRS sent by Ukraine
https://t.me/rybar/41882

Russia admit they are 1 step behind, what did I tell you guys...


The Russian Federation should have started the operation in Ukraine earlier, but expected to agree within the framework of Minsk-2 - Putin

https://t.me/intelslava/42541


Posted by: Zano/n | Dec 9 2022 18:02 utc | 357

In response to the topic of Putin & Lavrov being conned by Merkel & the West, I believe people have a tendency of abstracting complex processes for ease of use. There's more going on here than individuals trusting the word of other individuals and more at stake than personal relations.

What we are talking about is an international framework, both with a mechanism for dispute resolution and distribution of authority, integrated into an entire complex of organizations up to the highest regulatory body of international law. However much various parties would like to ignore this system of international relations, particularly when it acts against their interests on the basis of unequal distribution of authority rather than adherence to law and agreements, it's still a mammoth that has too much riding on it and is bad news for anyone who gets in its way.

When your opponent is a system that is too big to handle, effective resistance needs a plan of action that doesn't put one in direct confrontation with the system in its entirety. In this context, any beneficial agreement utilizing integrated actors and components of that system is an achievement, even if that agreement is ultimately reneged upon. Why? Well, you either have the system working for you as intended, or you have the system or parts of the system showing themselves to be unreliable which ultimately weakens its cohesion and strengthens your ability to resist it going forward.

To sum it up, if Putin & Lavrov were actually blindsided by Merkel & the West, we should be able to pinpoint how this duplicity made their position stronger in relation to Russia. Did they gain more allies? Do they have more authority in international relations now v.s then? Did it strengthen their economies or their political position domestically? Somehow, I get the impression that the West traded some of their strongest cards in a bid to ostensibly give Ukraine a few years of life-support. Is that life-support likely to change the final outcome of the conflict? I don't see any signs of that either.

So, when it comes down to material effects, it's more accurate to say that Merkel et al were under the illusion that they tricked someone other than themselves, and the Russian leadership is content with that interpretation of events. Similarly to how they regurgitate 300 billion of frozen or confiscated reserves, while only 100 billion are available and the figure will presumably continue to drop as more assets turn out to be illiquid or straight up disappear.

Simply put, if your wallet feels lighter after having tricked someone, and your mark is there counting your money and agreeing with you, don't forget to look into the camera for comedic effect while the image of a sucker is superimposed over your face.

Posted by: Skiffer | Dec 9 2022 18:05 utc | 358

So, Blinken the Satanist has the temerity to accuse Russia of religious intolerance! Here's the response by Maria Zakharova:

Question: US Secretary of State Antony Blinken issued a statement in which he again ranked Russia among the "countries of particular concern" in terms of religious freedom. How would you comment on that?

Maria Zakharova: Once again, we are witnessing how American authorities and officials are stubbornly promoting the Russophobic agenda. As before, Washington did not bother to present any justifications and arguments, but simply technically confirmed that our country remains on the American list of "malicious violators" of religious freedom.

The "novelty" was the inclusion of the Wagner Group in the number of organizations that encroach on the rights of believers. It is permissible to ask the question, what does this organization have to do with religion at all? We do not exclude that behind this is Washington's annoyance that the "musicians" have achieved success on the battlefield, liberating the Donbass. We see this as the only goal – the demonization of everything related to Russia, and the presentation of our fighters as "thugs" for whom nothing is sacred. There is no point in refuting this deliberate outright lie.

Our position on religious issues, as we have repeatedly stated, is unchanged and open. We are supporters of the protection of human rights, traditions and religions. As for the accusations against Russia, they are by definition untenable. The United States, which, for example, condones Satanist sects by deliberately destroying traditional values, has no moral right to judge our country or any other. It is no coincidence that the American list lacks a regime in Kiev that grossly violates the rights of believers by persecuting the canonical Orthodox Church.

We perceive the statement of US Secretary of State Antony Blinken as another unceremonious attack against Russia, which poisons Russian-American relations, which are already excessively confrontational through the fault of Washington. [My Emphasis]

Might as well put Blinken and Pompeo in the same casket along with Nuland to make it a threesome.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 9 2022 20:48 utc | 359

Velykyy Potyomkin island maybe being landed on by Russia? (Live ua)

Well that was quick I just mentioned the kiburn split now looks like Russia is going to really block kherson from using the river as a port, complicating a Ukrainian landing further down river

Stay tuned may be interesting

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 9 2022 20:56 utc | 360

Lavrov is incredible. He is greatly respected by most non-Western nations.

It doesn’t matter what the Western media says, because they are seen as liars by Arabs, Iranians, Africans, Indians, Chinese and most South Americans.

Thanks to him, the rest of the world is slowly but surely uniting. Meanwhile, the EU is headed for economic poverty and financial collapse. As for Ukraine, it is getting depopulated and reverting to the Stone Age bit by bit. Apparently they now have outbreaks of cholera.

Posted by: Augustus Caesar | Dec 9 2022 21:15 utc | 361

Simply put, if your wallet feels lighter after having tricked someone, and your mark is there counting your money and agreeing with you, don't forget to look into the camera for comedic effect while the image of a sucker is superimposed over your face.
Posted by: Skiffer | Dec 9 2022 18:05 utc | 387

Not for the first time thank you for the clarity and brevity. Much needed here appreciated.

Posted by: K | Dec 9 2022 21:22 utc | 362

Bob Jenkins | Dec 9 2022 17:57

A chuckle is not a laugh. More like a loud chortle.

The amusement was your perception the RF is not doing enough. Thats all, no biggie.

You can put your shirt back on big fella.

Enjoy the moment :)

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 9 2022 21:27 utc | 363

Posted by: Zed | Dec 9 2022 13:52 utc | 326

Oh sorry. I meant except you—go fuck yourself.

Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 9 2022 21:48 utc | 364

SeanAU @| 285 - I noted with special significance Col. MacGregor's statements about Russia changing (or clarifying) it's 'No first use' posture. Russia WILL use nukes first if it thinks US/NATO is preparing a nuclear strike on Russia. etc
Posted by: PavewayIV | Dec 9 2022 14:34 utc | 338

I agree with you there, in all you said

Col. MacGregor appeared quite different in his demeanor thru that interview. He sounds 'scared' more than usual what could be done. I think the US is capable of anything, and expect they will soon engage directly in ukraine against the russian forces. Once Russia gets moving, winning swathes of territory. The comment (info he'd received?) about a russian force along the polish border to separate Kiev from there was very telling too.

I think it is an illusion to believe Russia will just sail thru ukraine, have its demands met, and goes on to create this new economic utopia with china / row but without the west, g7 or the oecd.

I think it's delusional because the PTB in the US/UK Europe are utterly insane and will not stop until they themselves are stopped by overwhelming force leading to a major military defeat in their capital cities.

It is a hopeful MYTH the US empire is going to have it's feathers clipped or it's power undermined in the next 2 decades - without a major shift by it's adversaries, who appear to me to remain extremely weak and naive, and easily conned.

The latter, is not going to happen. I suspect the psychopathic lunatics will prevail.

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 9 2022 21:53 utc | 365

@ karlof1 | Dec 9 2022 20:48 utc | 388

Speaking of unceremonious attacks against others, you Karl falsely accused me of saying
Lavrov was a coward.

I never did.

This is the third time I am asking you to either provide your evidence I said that

OR to retract your disgusting underhanded cowardly accusation against me.

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 9 2022 22:06 utc | 366

PavewayIV | Dec 9 2022 14:34 utc | 338

You are likely right, though the soviet surveillance drone would require major upgrades. Guidance I guess would be lighter, then there is surveillance equipment weight vs warhead weight.

To me the Brits are now the risk factor. US is like that scene from blazing saddles where the cowboys sit around the fire eating beans. A lot of smelly noise but not much substance. US is pulling out of Ukraine in a Micheal Jackson moon walk so the Brits escalate to try and pull US back in.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2022 22:22 utc | 367

@392

Still have no clue what you're babbling about.

I was talking about specifically about Putin's response to incursions into Russia proper, not about what is going on in Ukraine.

Thanks for playing :P

Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Dec 9 2022 22:28 utc | 368

Britany Griner for Viktor Bout is not a deal that makes me feel good about USA.

Posted by: GoFast | Dec 9 2022 23:09 utc | 369

K | Dec 9 2022 21:22 utc | 391

That has to be the quote of the day.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2022 23:12 utc | 370

Re Talk of US running out of weapons.

I smell BS.

It is in the US interest to put this story out. I for one think they are doing what they always do, Lying.

Its one way of them not sending too much valuable death toys to the Ukrainians.

If you are hearing this from US sources then it almost certainly a lie.

Don't trust them ever.

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 9 2022 23:24 utc | 371

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 9 2022 23:24 utc | 400

At least from the Russian side I hope they operate on the basis their enemies will never run out of weapons.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 9 2022 23:27 utc | 372

SeanAU | Dec 9

Why are you constantly agitating for a fight ? You just can't leave anything alone.

It is behaviour typical of a troll. Create chaos to disrupt a thread. Seriously give it a rest you bloody drongo.

But maybe you really are a troll. Please barflies what is the verdict... Sean a troll or not.

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 9 2022 23:40 utc | 373

SeanAU | Dec 9 2022 21:53 utc | 394

Macgregor is quite good but pure military. I have a lot of respect for him as he is honest. US does not do foreign policy, only war policy. War is an extension of politics and military is a tool in that process. Militaries purpose is to kill and destroy. It can be used offensively or defensively but that is its purpose.

Most western ex ambassadors decided discretion was the better part of valor when the shit hit the fan, but Bhadrakumar and Cooke kept on keeping on. All need to be read, the military side and the geo-political side.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2022 23:42 utc | 374

Lavrov isn't a coward, he just avoids doing what he should be doing, which is publicly countering Blinken's incessant lying. He last public interview on Ukraine (with NBC) that I could find was dated five years ago.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 9 2022 23:45 utc | 375

Klaatu | Dec 9 2022 23:24 utc | 400

Sometime before this shit kicked of there was some media talk about UK/Europe taking on Russia and US would tackle China. To me that is the way things are headed now.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2022 23:50 utc | 376

Arch Bungle | Dec 9 2022 23:27 utc | 401

"At least from the Russian side I hope they operate on the basis their enemies will never run out of weapons."

They are. They know their enemy.

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 10 2022 0:05 utc | 377

There's a new sheriff in town. Who wants to kill him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPIP9KXdmO0

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 10 2022 0:19 utc | 378

@402 Certainly contentious. Be careful....you could be the next target.

Posted by: dh | Dec 10 2022 0:30 utc | 379

I give him the benefit of the doubt. Though often I am wrong. The wild oirish. I bet he has got red hair. This oirishman talks straight. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/197817/MICK_WALLACE/home
Another young woman in EU parliament also. I forget her name. Worth your while watching them for a bit Sean.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 10 2022 0:35 utc | 380

Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2022 23:50 utc | 405

I don't think so Peter. European armies are pathetic. They have no choice than to slog it out on the battlefield and they have no capacity to do that.

US and China situation is competition between two great powers and I can't even see how that works out. I can't see how the US can get close to China to cause problems. The CPC also had the foresight after Tiananmen to lock out the US. No more color revolutions in China, no way those CIA shopfronts like the N.E.D can get their foot in the door now.

Its all up to the US. They can continue on their global wrecking rampage or become a positive contributor to humanity's future. If the US continues like it has the future looks very bleak.


Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 10 2022 0:38 utc | 381

Klaatu | Dec 10 2022 0:38 utc | 410

Very much my thoughts but western political thought possesses seem to live in a wonderland.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 10 2022 0:56 utc | 382

I probably should call that a Sean's oirish wonderland.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 10 2022 0:58 utc | 383

@ Sean_UA | Dec 9 2022 22:06 utc | 395

Troll.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 10 2022 1:25 utc | 384

Any Chance the Russians are massing troops in Belarus in order to take control of the 2 nuclear plants and Chernobyl there, in order to avoid nuclear catastrophe and complete their decimation of the electrical system?

Posted by: Charles Fournier | Dec 10 2022 1:28 utc | 385

@ Klaatu | Dec 10 2022 0:38 utc | 410

@ Peter AU1 | Dec 10 2022 0:56 utc | 411

Concur on both counts. :(

Charles Fournier | Dec 10 2022 1:28 utc | 414

Yes.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 10 2022 1:49 utc | 386

Outraged | Dec 10 2022 1:25 utc | 413

Yes 1
Maybe 1
No 0

SAU and S_AU same?

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 10 2022 2:04 utc | 387

@ Klaatu | Dec 10 2022 2:04 utc | 416

Sean_UA = SeanAU. Deserved.

Peace.

US Considering Ukraine's Request to Provide Cluster Munitions, B-52 Leaflet Bombs

WASHINGTON (Sputnik) - The United States is considering Ukraine's request for cluster weapons that are banned by more than 100 countries, American media reported citing US and Ukrainian officials.

The report said on Wednesday that Ukraine is requesting cluster munition warheads and weapons to use against Russian forces amid its special military operation.

...

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 10 2022 3:26 utc | 388

The more weak Russia is, the more embolden west get, Russia should have realized this after close to 10 month of war:

US greenlights Ukrainian attacks inside Russia – Times
Washington now reportedly believes such actions are less likely to trigger a direct clash between Moscow and NATO
https://swentr.site/russia/567993-us-ukraine-attacks-deep-russia/

Russia keep whining at the UN instead of doing something about it on the battlefield, but incompetence is stopping them apparently...

Russia warns West will face ‘consequences’ for arming Ukraine
https://swentr.site/russia/567994-ukraine-warning-western-arms/

Posted by: _Zanon_ | Dec 10 2022 9:24 utc | 389

I have long wondered about the Donetsk thing. None of our esteemed observers/analysts/military experts, from DPA to Scott Ritter, say, go into it at all.

Since I found Unigram it is a lot less tedious to translate Russian Telegram and I ran across this. Which if true - and there's more than a hundred comments on it following it and they don't seem to be denying it at all - then it paints a somewhat terrible picture of the Russian military machine.

I hope telegram link will work for you. I've seen a message one time that 'this link will only work for members of this group' or something like that.

So I'll print the link and the Google english translation and the original Russian as the best I can do to try to put it before you all.

I'd love to hear some comment.


https://t.me/rusich_army/6706

DONETSK. VERY UNPLEASANT FACT TO ACCEPT:

Ukrainian artillery does whatever it wants. And the Russian "counter-battery struggle" is not a decree for her. We cannot oppose anything to the artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine regarding the security of Donetsk.

All talk about our superiority in artillery remains an empty phrase: we have neither ground reconnaissance weapons nor UAVs capable of instantly detecting enemy fire weapons and destroying them.

Do they know about this state of affairs? Do they report to the top about such a situation with intelligence equipment? We are prophesied great things, how can we go on the offensive with such support?

Where does this talk about lack of ammunition come from? Why are we again washing ourselves with the blood of civilians, Russians? Why is the population not being explained the path that led us to the bloodiest days of Donetsk in the entire war since 2014?

From Donetsk, no one groans, everyone just gnashes their teeth in hatred. But Donetsk is doing everything to take ours, all the men went to the front, the population does not panic and holds on. Will we pay tribute to Donetsk or not? Or will we be patient?

And as for the general situation, we must admit to ourselves and report to self-respecting responsible persons upstairs that even now, and all these 10 months, we do not have and did not have real means of conducting counter-battery combat, our artillery is blind. Come on, take courage and report.


ПРИНЯТЬ:

Украинская артиллерия делает всё, что хочет. И российская «контрбатарейная борьба» ей не указ. Мы не можем ничего противопоставить артиллерии ВСУ в отношении безопасности Донецка.

Все разговоры о нашем превосходстве в артиллерии остаются пустым звуком: у нас нет ни разведывательных наземных средств, ни БЛА, способных моментально засечь огневые средства противника и уничтожить их.

Знают ли наверху о таком положении дел? Докладывают ли наверх о такой ситуации с разведсредствами? Нам пророчат великие дела, как же мы пойдем в наступление при таком обеспечении?

Откуда эти разговоры о нехватке боеприпасов? Почему мы снова умываемся кровью гражданских людей, россиян? Почему населению не объясняют путь, который привел нас к самым кровавым дням Донецка за всю войну с 2014 года?

Из Донецка никто не стонет, все только скрежещут зубами от ненависти. Но Донецк делает всё, чтоб наша взяла, все мужики ушли на фронт, население не паникует и держится. Мы воздадим должное Донецку или нет? Или оставим терпеть?

А по общей ситуации надо признаться самим себе и уважающим себя ответственным лицам доложить наверх, что у нас и сейчас, и все эти 10 месяцев нет и не было реальных средств ведения контрбатарейной борьбы, наша артиллерия слепая. Давайте, набирайтесь мужества и докладывайте.

Posted by: abrogard | Dec 10 2022 10:17 utc | 390

I think the paper generals from the general staff and parasites from government already have only two options. It will be clear for everyone as soon as bigger terrorist attacks will happen and more Russian soldiers and civilians die because of bad military leadership: quit, make new government and change the generals or try to stop protests. They also have to preemptive strike Finland, before they get nato nukes, and place at least 50k soldiers at Georgia's borders.
Russians like Putin, and they should, but that won't stop them from wanting to replace everyone else. Nato is not that stupid to lose an opportunity once in a century, when their enemy has a large number of idiots and is basically paralyzed. They will send more banned weapons, like Macaron did with those mines many months ago, weapons of longer range and will target much bigger things, like npps, airports or factories.
This recipe will also work well for the other countries with paper generals, like China. China was a great warrior until pelosi landed. Movies on social media, ships and planes training. Since then it's silence, not even drones come near Taiwan. US will wait a bit until they don't need the industry there anymore and suddenly half of UN will recognize it as independent country. By that time a very large number of nukes will fill Japan and probably SK too, to keep China begging for peace.

Posted by: rk | Dec 10 2022 10:35 utc | 391

Duma speaker urges Germany, France to pay compensation to Donbass residents
https://tass.com/russias-foreign-policy/1548855

Why are not Russia confiscate EU nation's property, capital etc inside Russia as EU have done onto Russia and russian nationals inside the EU?

Posted by: Zanon: | Dec 10 2022 12:08 utc | 392

Ukraine is caught in a big trap in Bakhmut: if they retreat, then Russia breaks one of the last lines of defense in the Donbass. Not the very last line, but one of them. After Bakhmut there is Kramatorsk and Slavyansk, and once those fall, it is free and easy driving all the way to the Dniepr.

However, the only way Ukraine can hold Bakhmut is by sacrificing thousands of troops, indefinitely, on a regular basis.

Either Ukraine retreats to the last line of defense, or it keeps losing thousands of soldiers every week.

Posted by: Augustus Caesar | Dec 10 2022 13:53 utc | 393

@ Augustus Caesar | Dec 10 2022 13:53 utc | 428

(1) Either Ukraine retreats to the last line of defense, or

(2) it keeps losing thousands (~4k-7k KIA/week & ~12-21K WIA/week, in Bakhmut alone) of soldiers every week.

I'm willing to risk a dollar, my bet is on option (2), or until the OUN-Nazis run out of forced conscripts.

Odds on offer ?

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 10 2022 14:16 utc | 394

@DakotaRog 384

Engine metallurgy was different then, and mechanics generally capable of building a primitive engine. Try it on any modern engine not designed to operate on high alcohol, low lubricity fuel and you will kill it - quickly. And then where will you obtain spare parts?

No matter what you believe, you live in a complex many dependencies world with no fuses, breakpoints or resets, which developed organically into what it is because of what was practice and available as it evolved to support current populationns. Those precursor states, practices and skill sets are no longer available, which is why, when cascade failure breaks the network (and we know of many paths which make this inevitable, as risks multiply), it will not be possible to revert to a prior state and rebuild. Instead, the surplus population will die, and in it's death struggles, will destroy assets, disperse resources, and eliminate populations that might once have been able to recover. Which is one reason why the energy and materials wasted making firearms are unlikely to those holding them.

Posted by: Hermit | Dec 10 2022 14:38 utc | 395

harryass @431

Of course there is the third option: The Ukraine concedes defeat, outlaws and punishes the criminal Nazis, institutionalizes eternal neutrality as the most fundamental law in their constitution, and demobilizes 100% of their military.

If they were to do this there might actually even be a Ukraine left afterwards. In fact, my bet would be that Russia would allow the Ukraine to retain most of its territory if the Ukrainians would do that.

But no, that is just not an option for the NATOadies. It is you NATOadies who are extending the war and killing kids, not Outraged or Russia.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 10 2022 14:47 utc | 396

@ harryash | Dec 10 2022 14:33 utc | 431

outraged...well-done
you have just extended the war and probably murdered a few hundred kids.
obviously not one of your kids.
where are we ....sat with your feet up...stuffing your fat face
having trouble getting to the toilet?
either that or your a troll

Rhetorically, for effect, faux delusional zero grasp of reality. Intentionally faux illiteracy affectation, uncivil, rude & provocatively obnoxious. Henceforth, one word only:

Troll.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 10 2022 14:53 utc | 397

Outraged@433- correct. And very perceptive, perhaps it takes a native anglophone to understand where harry is coming from.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 10 2022 15:24 utc | 398

@ bevin | Dec 10 2022 15:24 utc | 435

'It' was clearly somewhat taken aback as 'it' did not use prior etiquette of copying 'Posted by' field re addressee in response.
Notice how 'it' momentarily managed a singular capitalization at the beginning of the first sentence, three complete, grammatically correct sentence structures, inclusive of full stops or acceptable equivalent ? Hence, demonstrating a 'proof' of the assessment in 'Dec 10 2022 14:53 utc | 433'.

Cheers.

Peace

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 10 2022 15:42 utc | 399

why should poor young dumb kids die on both sides because of Kolomoisky et al


Posted by: harryash | Dec 10 2022 13:57 utc | 429

Try to keep up. The US State Department sanctioned Kolomoisky (who initiated Zelensky's campaign for peace in the east) out of the game in 2021. Ostensibly because of corruption. But really because he defeated "our Ukraine insider" Poroshenko in the 2019 election.

Has anyone else noticed wikileaks search is not working?

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 10 2022 16:01 utc | 400

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