Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 07, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-218

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Yesterday I noted that Sec State Blinken had blinked with regards to Crimea. The State Department spok more or less confirmed the shift:

It was unclear whether Mr. Blinken’s mention of the Feb. 24 lines was deliberate. Before its full-scale invasion of Ukraine on that date, Russia already occupied much of Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region, as well as Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula, which the Kremlin annexed in 2014.

Asked on Tuesday whether Washington drew any distinction between Ukrainian land seized by Russia after its Feb. 24 invasion of the country and territory it was occupying previously, Mr. Price demurred.

“It’s a question for the Ukrainian government. It is not a question for the U.S. government,” he said.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on December 7, 2022 at 16:52 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Posted by: Perimetr | Dec 8 2022 5:42 utc | 157

Soviet-era Tupolev Tu-141 Strizh would need a new autopilot / controller to fly by GPS. Not a particularly difficult job given effectively unlimited assistance. At that point it could fly any programmed zigzag course. A laser or radar altimeter would allow fast, reliable low altitude flight.

The attack could have used any plausible NATO weapon but Strizh with new autopilot and NATO mission planning makes sense and is just the right side of hands-off for NATO goons.

Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 8 2022 11:41 utc | 201

Mutti Merkel is stating the actual raisin d’etre behind the Minsk agreements as directed by the US hagemony orchestrated by the Western created Hitler and Nazis bastard grand sons & daughters - Nuland & that 4th Reich incubated in the hidden northern Canadian and various other 5+1 eyes bolt holes after the failure of their last attempt at Taking Russia in WW2.

Angela is NOT saying that it was HER motive to give Ukraine Time!
She after all was just a German Chancellor of the continuously militarily occupied country since 1945.

The Russians having withdrawn their occupation forces - The US led western imperialist DID NOT.

That is still a fact.

Many of the so called ‘free’ European and worldwide countries who are supposedly Partners with the US have equally had the US imperial Boots in their countries for nearly a century now. Some more such as the Philippines.

Including the U.K. - that is a FACT.

“FUCK THE EU “ is what the Nazi Nuland bitche from hell said.

They meant it - they have indeed finally fucked it !

The only thing that delayed it was Mutti, she tried to stop the grand fucking, she made sure that energy security would be guaranteed in the time she had and got NS2 built. So that the Ukraine pipelines couldn’t be used as leverage.

When she finally had to go - she was given a ‘farewell’ by the occupation controlled military forces who rubbed her nose into the shit they had planned - go back and look it up - she didn’t look happy, she looked disgusted.

No it is not an admission of her intent it is a clear declaration that the imperial power over Europe’s intention.

That is how I see her statement. Her statement is her first major utterance since leaving office and after the unprecedented destruction of the energy security of Germany and the EU. The blowing up of NS1&2 by the Imperial forces - the Masters, the pretend ‘allies’.

I expect her to say more and her peoples will listen. True idealist EU peoples in other countries will listen.

It is her opening shot as an independent of the imperial court, honest broker alternative voice to throw out the military invaders and their decrepit financial chains of the WB, IMF and associated treasonous collaborators. A move towards the only stable sanity of a Eu-EuAsian, SCO led, Multipolar world order. That is the only hope of a Collective Humanity on this planet AND off it!

She will be aware that she will be a target for assassination by the Overlords of the Empire she arose in.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 8 2022 11:48 utc | 202

Posted by: S.P. Korolev | Dec 8 2022 6:04 utc | 158
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 8 2022 7:45 utc | 175

Just saw what you wrote, apologies for some duplication.

Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 8 2022 11:53 utc | 203

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 8 2022 11:48 utc | 202

Interesting perspective, thank you.

Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 8 2022 11:59 utc | 204

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 8 2022 7:14 utc | 169
The Americans and Europeans are insane, period. You don't fuck with nor negotiate with insane people. You bring them down and place them under lock and key.

I agree with you, but it may be better to do it like boiling a lobster. Similar to what was done to Napoleon: by the time Russia was done with him, his beloved "Continental System", which was a precursor of today's EU, was in ruins. So was his army and his confidence.

As long as the US/NATO think they are winning, they will continue to shoot themselves in the foot, at least economically (SWIFT, sanctions, maritime insurance for the oil price cap). Militarily, Ukraine will end up with no infrastructure, running water, electricity or telecommunications, and US/EU cannot rebuild it.

Going slow provides much more drama and is a lot funnier. Kind of a like a dish that has marinated for a long time, it has more flavor.

Posted by: Augustus Caesar | Dec 8 2022 12:31 utc | 205

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2022 1:44 utc | 126

I write mostly for entertainment. And certainly learn things along the way.

My opinion is that the SMO has become wildly more expensive than Putin ever imagined. While the odds still are that the Russian's will be able to claim they won something, it will be well short of their demands starting in the fall of 2021. NATO rollback, etc. And yes, Ukraine is suffering the most. But depending how long the sanctions last on Russia, it will certainly slow down their economic development.

Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 8 2022 12:45 utc | 206

The Russian news channel Vesti reports on dramatic changes in the Russian car sales: China and Russia are taking over the car market (filling up the gaps left by Western car producers) and car sales are again booming https://www.vesti.ru/auto/article/3082297

Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Dec 8 2022 12:49 utc | 207

@
“Nothing, nothing, is more important than personal power & survival to a psychopath. Thoughts ?
Posted by: Outraged | Dec 8 2022 1:23 utc | 121 “

You are correct about that understanding.
But..
What you seem to be not quite seeing is that the psychopaths are actually just the mercenary trained monkey that dances to the tune of the actual OWNERS.

The actual hereditary Owners of lands and resources - which includes the Peoples of those lands and are considered to be mere slaves and chattels along with any other animal - are largely incapable of actually doing any WORK or Management of the daily dirty grind of cruelty and punishment and reward required to maintain control.
Most will have been raised in such rarified environs and never learnt to even clean their own arseholes let alone wash feed and cloth themselves. They would devtlop saintly, poetic, artistic sensibilities full of charitable intent even. Butt they would never let an outsider, no matter how rich refined or trusted as a high servant even, enter their gene pool.

For that reason they recruit psychopaths who make the best CEO’s, generals and funnily enough surgeons !

The psychopaths don’t do anything for their future generations, they only do it for their personal gratification in their own lifetimes. Becoming billionaires is as much a reward as being in high public office, a celebrity or a killer of thousands with an army - such joy they get from it!

All Empires were built by psychopaths in the employ of their financial Masterd and Owners.

Do you see?

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 8 2022 12:52 utc | 208

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 8 2022 11:48 utc | 202

Re Mutti and the Ukraine. Can you please check the “not -Ukraine thread “for my question to you .

Posted by: harryash | Dec 8 2022 12:00 utc | 206

The Truth will out. She and anyone else for that matter can rail , but the info is all there. American PR company , and the guy who hatched the plan gloated all about how he got the Jewish groups onside. He has a German or Scandic surname and I don’t think he was Jewish himself though.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 8 2022 12:57 utc | 209

S.P. Korolev | Dec 8 2022 4:52 utc | 150

Why do the drones need the enhanced precision the encrypted GPS signal would provide? Also, what is the need for “real time” intelligence? The simple solution would be to use Google Earth to avoid major population centers enroute to their targets and to enter a series of way points and fire the drones off to the east. A lot of the fixed SAM sites that have been around for a while do show up on Google Earth.

Anything else adds a lot of complexity.

Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 8 2022 13:01 utc | 210

it wasnt them ...accordin to Barett (VT) khazarians...
n clif high is in there with his .."i can predict the future from A! listenin to conversations...

Posted by: harryash | Dec 8 2022 12:00 utc | 206

Sometimes they come right out and admit what they did (for good reasons). However few will get to see and/or hear it.
The Palestinians on the other hand know this all too well.

The facial expressions of the second person is down right amazing.

https://twitter.com/daneasterman/status/1599806572548349953

https://twitter.com/daneasterman/status/1600440579929710594

It turns out Einstein was far more intelligent then I thought.

"Albert Einstein one of the smartest, intellectual persons on earth was a Jew. He was contacted by the Zionist occupation members to become Israel's first President. He refused and explained he wanted nothing to do with that terrorist bunch, their agendas and filthy occupation."

https://twitter.com/360CNN/status/1598804028150145024

Conclusion: Russians are the most vile people on Earth fighting those Zio-Nazis.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 8 2022 13:02 utc | 211

Perimetr | Dec 8 2022 5:42 utc | 157 "The MK-41 launchers at the Aegis Ashore facilities in Romania and Poland can be loaded with Tomahawk cruise missiles"

Sure, they can be loaded but the control systems to fire the Tomahawks aren't there.

Posted by: Bill Smithb | Dec 8 2022 13:05 utc | 212

At Slavyangrad, the latest kill list doesn't show tanks. Plenty of pickup trucks and APC's but tanks seem missing. Maybe Ukr. ran out of them. Take out the artillery and it's down to hand held weapons. Rope a dope is the way forward.

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 8 2022 13:23 utc | 213

Strelkov has come back from the front, where he was not welcome. His bitter rant is at https://southfront.org/critical-look-at-russian-military-command-of-mr-strelkov-who-returned-from-front-lines/
" Briefly on some impressions of my trip, which was fruitless, but not useless (since my eyes and ears remained with me, and my head also works).

Of cource, I intend to keep with me the overwhelming majority of my impressions and conclusions in order “not to discredit.”

As for my positive impressions, I will share them in the framework of the upcoming (I hope so) video conferences; but there are not too many of them compared to the negative ones.

Now I will only note that at the heart of all our “growing victories” on the fronts and directions of the Special Military Operation is the deepest crisis of strategic planning. Put simply, the troops are fighting “by inertia”, not having the slightest idea about the ultimate strategic goals of the current military campaign and only guessing about the vague plans of the command for such grandiosely senseless gestures as the construction of the totally insane in uselessness (but wildly expensive in cost) “Surovikin Line”.

In most parts of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, soldiers and officers do not understand: for what, why and with what goals they are fighting. It is mystery to them: what is a condition for victory or just a condition for ending the war?

The authorities of the Russian Federation are not able to explain this to them, since to set a clear goal of the Special Military Operation means “to limit their room for maneuver”. That is, to lose the opportunity to declare the goals of the Special Military Operation achieved at any moment that the Kremlin leaders deem convenient for themselves. (I remind once again that the passionately desired “reconciliation with partners,” for which many steps are still being taken that demoralize society and the Army, are basically unattainable, but in the Kremlin and on Staraya Square, they do not want to believe it in any way).

In particular, such sentiments in the troops lead to apathy. In its turn, such apathy leads to a drop in morale and the fulfillment of the tasks set “for show” and “through the sleeves,” without real interest in their successful result. Thus, in the Army of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (and parts of the Armed Forces of the LDPR, although there is much more motivation among the fighters) apathy prevails.

The lack of a clear military-political strategy does not allow the military to develop tactics that will contribute to its implementation. As of yet, without prior permission, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are preparing for a protracted positional war, building long-term structures along the entire front “a la Mannerheim line” (they are not enough for the “Maginot-style line”). The fact that following the strategy of a protracted war is suicide for the Russian Federation (and its authorities and elites – also, by the way). I wrote this back in 2014, and said (more than once and not twice), from the very beginning of the current campaign.

Therefore, watching how the enemy unhurriedly (and not meeting any opposition) implements its own strategic tasks amid the complete passivity of the military and political authorities of the Russian Federation, I do not expect anything good in the coming weeks at the front.

And, yes, – the so-called “ukraine” will NOT freeze in winter, will NOT rebel and will NOT fight worse. Conversely. Its soldiers, who have already believed in their forces as a result of the victories of the AFU in autumn and are fully supported by NATO, will only be angrier and more stubborn to fight against the “Muscovites”, avenging the hardships that their relatives and loved ones are forced to bear in the rear. And they will be faced only with the apathetic fulfillment of the official duty, behind which many fighters and commanders have long loomed an unresolved question: “And what are we doing here if Moscow is most concerned with the implementation of “grain deal”, the unhindered pumping of ammonia through Odessa and “the ceiling prices” for gas and oil supplied to numerous Western partners?”

Posted by: sumant | Dec 8 2022 13:42 utc | 214

An exchange of prisoners of a different kind.

"In a huge and unexpected development, Russia has released into US custody WNBA star Brittney Griner, after in October her 9-year prison sentence was upheld by a Russian court.

She was freed at a prisoner exchange in Abu Dhabi Airport on Thursday. In return the Biden administration agreed to give up notorious international arms dealer Viktor Bout. US officials speaking to CBS say the deal had been reached by last Thursday, with the logistics details having been hammered out since then. Biden is imminently expected to address Griner's release and the prisoner exchange at 8:30eastern. "

No surprise really. Joe needs Good News and this is it for him.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 8 2022 13:44 utc | 215

Posted by: sumant | Dec 8 2022 13:42 utc | 222

Sumant, please ease up on the curry.
You are generating way too much gas in the Bar.

PS: I love curry :-)

Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 8 2022 13:51 utc | 216

@ DunGroanin | Dec 8 2022 12:52 utc | 211

This is going seriously OT.

Response in OT thread 2022-216 ...

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 8 2022 14:06 utc | 217

About the production "The Greatest Conspiracy since the Creation of the Federal Republic of Germany", this is what Anti-Spiegel has to say....Including at the end Medvedev´s rumblings....

https://www.anti-spiegel.ru/2022/der-putschversuch-in-deutschland-und-was-die-medien-wann-wussten/

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 8 2022 14:06 utc | 218

@ harryash | Dec 8 2022 12:43 utc | 209

Veterans Today ? Veterans Today ?! Gag me with a spoon.

Putin has proven himself to be perfectly content to keep feeding the cream of Russian and Ukrainian youth into the Jewish meat grinder masquerading as a Ukrainian state, long as the Russian oligarchs who pay for his yachts and watch collection continue to make rubles by the truckload.

Ah, the aroma of a sour Hasbara vintage ...

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 8 2022 14:15 utc | 219

@Posted by: sumant | Dec 8 2022 13:42 utc | 222

This Strelkov is acting as a foreign agent in the front. Not i nvain his rumblings and rants are usually used by the enenmy of Russia in other blogs like turcopolier to really low morale of Russians at home. he should considering stopping his triades or someone should take some measure with him so that to shut him up.

It seems to me it is him who is a pesimist of the higuest league, after all we could not see his greatest victories in Slovyansk during the 2014 Donbas militias campaign, and, if I do not recall badly, he withdrew from Slovyansk leaving a bunch of teenagers at the front line many of whom died heroically right there defending the indefensible with their means while he saved his own skin...The very brave Russian soldier he does not look like..He sound more like a big mouth....

I dunno, but it is a usual happenstance that soldiers at the front are informed of every point of the whole strategy of any war?
It sounds quite dangerous indeed in case they would end caught prisoners, all the more taking into account the criminakl methods followed by the Ukronazis with their prisoners....

The Kremlin may be making errors, as could anybody eklse, look at the state of affairs in Europe, for example, one could not act more irresponsibly...yet, we, the European taxpayers, woith whom sweat and lack of sleep they are financing this war, we lack totally the onformation about the strategy justifying all this fiasco....

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 8 2022 14:20 utc | 220

@Posted by: sumant | Dec 8 2022 13:42 utc | 222

This Strelkov is acting as a foreign agent in the front. Not in vain his rumblings and rants are usually used by the enenmy of Russia at other blogs, like turcopolier, to try to low morale of Russians at home. He should consider stopping his tirades, or someone should take some measure so that to shut him up for a while....

It seems to me it is him who is a pesimist of the higuest league.
After all, we could not see his greatest victories in Donbass in 2014 when he was at the head of military planning. In Slovyansk, during the 2014 Donbas militias´ campaign, if I do not recall badly, he withdrew leaving a bunch of teenagers at the front line, many of whom died heroically right there defending the indefensible with the means they had, while he saved his own skin...The very brave Russian soldier he does not look like..He sound more like a big mouth....

I dunno, since I am not military, but it is an usual way of proceeding that soldiers at the front are informed of every point on the whole strategy in any war?
It sounds quite dangerous indeed in case they would end caught prisoners, for example, all the more taking into account the criminal methods followed by the Ukronazis with their prisoners....

The Kremlin may be making errors, as could anybody else. You have not but to look at the state of affairs in Europe, for example, one could not act more irresponsibly and negligently..Yet, we, the European taxpayers, whose sweat and lack of sleep are financing this war, we lack totally the information about the full strategy justifying all this fiasco....

Well, to be more precise, we lack the information of the strategy from our elites´mouth or documents, but we know it indeed from the Rand Corporation filtrated papers...

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 8 2022 14:33 utc | 221

@ Troll | Dec 8 2022 14:28 utc | 230

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 8 2022 14:35 utc | 222

You can delete my 229 post, sorry, went without correction.

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 8 2022 14:37 utc | 223

Whatever happens with The Donbas Settlement it will appear to have been inevitable and a triumph of the patriotic side in this war. It always does.

Posted by: Wokechoke | Dec 8 2022 14:42 utc | 224

I read several Telegram channels and in the iOS version, I can pop up translations. It is clear to anyone watching them that Ukrainians on the front lines are dying in mass. Russians lose random people from shelling and accidents, but the poor buggers in the trenches are being blasted with all types of horrible things.

Many front line soldiers are in holes in the ground or trenches. They pop up and down like prairie dogs, but I expect that artillery kills many of them underground.

If you monitor Telegram, you will recognize most of the moronic garbage from the trolls, immediately. The battles are severely lopsided in favor of Russia.

It is also obvious that Russia isn't fighting Ukraine. Ukraine is just a pawn in a proxy war and Z is an actor. Foreign advisors, foreign satellite intel, foreign mercenaries, NATO troops like in plain clothes or Ukrainian uniforms, vast quantities weaponry -- and Russia has to keep modifying tactics because of it. The war is directed by NATO.

The Ukrainian injuries are horrific and catastrophic. It is like the "walking dead" except that the gore is low key - grey bodies, pieces missing - no zombies at all. The drone videos are sobering.

It is really worth setting up Telegram, just to read. There are also desktop version you can download on Linux based machines. They all synchronize, so you can always pick up where you left off.

I also read that communications are next. Not sure if that is the west pushing "Russia is bad, they are going after the internet" or if Russia announced something. I am surprised that it hasn't happened already, but with the grid down, it should be easy to use drones to take out all cell transmitters and send cruise missiles to take out data centers and network hubs that are still operating with generators. There are also international network monitors to gage its effectiveness in real time.

I read some dumb stuff about warnings that the sewers will freeze in cities with no power -- that is likely false since the pipes will be below the frost line. The fresh water side of things will be bad though - broken plumbing, toilets, valves etc. unless they know how to winterize them. They will need outhouses in the cities. Rural Canada had them in the 1950s - and parks still have then today.

I read that mayors of cities stating that residents might need to leave this winter. That seems reasonable - if I was a mayor, I would prepare the population and let them make their own choices.

In Canada, we hear that stupid poll from the wife of Z that most Ukrainians are prepared to live without electricity for a few years. I can't imagine that in a city during war. I think that poll was just made up.


Posted by: PP | Dec 8 2022 14:47 utc | 225

@ Dungroanin 203

What you say about Merkel's punishment for henceforth to secure Russian energy supplies. Many here have expressed frustration at President Putin and FM Lavrov's failure to utilise propaganda for Western audiences, and overwhelming military force on the battlefield.

Self- preservation and self- respect.
The first because the FUKUSIS psychopaths would claw their way out of their cages and do a Julian Assange on them if they exposed Fukusis complete insane corruption of this world, and they second because they don't want to be seen as behaving like psychopaths themselves.

Leave the Fukusis psychopaths to completely disgrace themselves. I was talking to a vulture banker yesterday because vee had smelt blood because I had forgotten to pay an instalment on my bounce-back loan. He grilled me for half an hour looking for signs of financial stress, and when I mentioned Fukusis bringing war tom our doorstep, he stopped me immediately.

I try to leave psychopaths to God's tender mercies, but you can't really do that easily if you are on a world stage.
Hopefully those who have ears to hear, will hear just by gentle reminders.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 8 2022 14:55 utc | 226

@sumant | Dec 8 2022 13:42 utc | 222
Strelkov: troops are fighting “by inertia”, not having the slightest idea about the ultimate strategic goals of the current military campaign and only guessing about the vague plans of the command for such grandiosely senseless gestures as the construction of the totally insane in uselessness (but wildly expensive in cost) “Surovikin Line"

Perhaps "Strelkov" would be happier if Russia surrendered after nine months of struggle and allowed Ukraine to join NATO with US troops based there, while giving up Crimea and Sevastopol?

The declared goal of the Russian SMO in Ukraine is the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine. Putin stated that Ukraine was becoming an "anti-Russia" state, with it being supplied by other NATO members with "the most modern weapons", saying: "Further expansion of the NATO infrastructure and the beginning of military development in Ukraine's territories are unacceptable for us. The problem, of course, is not NATO itself – it is only an instrument of US foreign policy. The problem is that in the territories adjacent to us – territories that were historically ours, I emphasise – an 'anti-Russia' hostile to us is being created, placed under full external control; [it] is intensively settled by the armed forces of NATO countries and is supplied with the most modern weapons."

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 8 2022 14:56 utc | 227

Not, of course, in relation to anything here; but one thing I will say for Assad, never an unkind word for Russia.

He doesn't bite the hand that feeds him.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 8 2022 15:06 utc | 228

My opinion is that the SMO has become wildly more expensive than Putin ever imagined. While the odds still are that the Russian's will be able to claim they won something, it will be well short of their demands starting in the fall of 2021. NATO rollback, etc. And yes, Ukraine is suffering the most. But depending how long the sanctions last on Russia, it will certainly slow down their economic development.

Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 8 2022 12:45 utc | 210

My own view is that Putin was under no illusions as to how difficult Ukraine could be for Russia. The Russians totally understood the increasing nazification of Ukraine post 2014 and the increasing buildup of Ukraine's military capability and integration with NATO. Taking military action via the SMO was forced on Russia.

The demands set out in the autumn of 2021 were couched as an ambit claim. Russia talked at the time about wanting to negotiate. The essence of negotiation is that you do not achieve every single thing that you first asked for. However a successful negotiation achieves your underlying objective. And in Russia's case this was recognition of its legitimate security interests (as it perceived those interests - not as someone else perceived them), and acceptable guarantees of those interests.

The response of the West was to deny that Russia could define its own security interests, and that no negotiations on the matter would be entered into.

Russia had no alternative but to start the SMO, but did so in as low key a fashion as possible. I read many estimates that Russia only used some 15% of its military in the operation. Where it would go they did not know. The best case scenario of an early negotiated agreement with Ukraine was almost achieved in the negotiations brokered by Turkey. Boris Johnson made sure that the agreement reached in Turkey was repudiated by Kiev.

Russia was aware that the Ukraine SMO could spiral out of control at any time. The Russian strategic nuclear forces were placed on high alert from the start, and I have not seen any report that the high alert status has been lowered (perhaps that explains why the long range bombers at the Engels air base were on the runway).

Clearly, many things have changed in the world since Russia set out to change the world and establish a multilateral framework which recognises Russia's security needs. What that framework will be we cannot see at the moment as we have not even started the process of building it.

Posted by: Ross | Dec 8 2022 15:19 utc | 229

Related on how to survive the dismantling of modern Western osciety for the neolitic bhy Davos troupe an gents in the Eurpean Parliament and Comission, just yesterday I found over there this video on how a pair on kinda indonesian guys built a more or less comfortable home with the basics... and even a pool...They built a bedroom for to with teir won private space, a kitchen and even some garden zones, but I noticed they never built a bathroom...Of course, it does not seem very neccesary there...because of the hot weather...If not for the erathquakes, volcanoes and tsunamis, I think Indonesia would be a good place to resettle in this deconstruction of civilized European way of life at the hands of the pscyhos in charge now...Anyway, eventhough the good vibes Pepe Escobar describes emanate from the Indonesian culture, still I can not forget the view of those documentaries by Openheimer on the killings of communists some decades ago...Got quite averse to visit such country since then....

https://twitter.com/DSheldon_Cooper/status/1599195810272407553

Anyway, this kind of construction in the middle of nowhere would be impossible to do in any part of the West... Immediately it would come the government, or their owners BlackRock, State Street or Vanguard, pretending that land is theirs...as it is happening in Ukraine and Holland....

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 8 2022 15:45 utc | 230

Bill Smith | Dec 8 2022 12:45 utc | 210

"My opinion is that the SMO has become wildly more expensive than Putin ever imagined. While the odds still are that the Russian's will be able to claim they won something, it will be well short of their demands starting in the fall of 2021. NATO rollback, etc. And yes, Ukraine is suffering the most. But depending how long the sanctions last on Russia, it will certainly slow down their economic development."

I for one agree with most of this.
There won't be any "NATO rollback".
There won't even be people living in Kherson in the next 10 years. It's a ghost city from now on.
There won't be any demilitarization, because the combined West will keep on sending weapons, in whatever way they can. It will not nearly be enough to change anything on the ground in Ukraine's favor, but still it's an endless process.
There won't be any denazification. Apparently, the head Nazi of Ukraine, who in these crazy times happens to be a Jewish globetrotter, will always be spared by the Russians. Also from what I'm reading the Nazi stormtroopers on the ground and at the front are quite content to just act as blocking troops in the second line.
Regarding the economic slowdown, I don't know if that would be the worst aspect. To me, the worst in this whole boondoggle is rather that people, ordinary civilians, in Donetsk cannot just go to work, do their shopping, pick up their kids from kindergarten or use some ATM in the street without having to fear Ukrainian shells raining down on them. To me, that's almost like betrayal.
And people who think that Ukraine will have to win this thing have got it exactly wrong. Ukraine just needs to not lose. Russia will have to win. Ukraine just needs to not sign any capitulation. The combined West will take care of everything else. To the detriment of their peoples and the people of Ukraine. The combined juntas don't care. For Ukrainian civilians, there's always the option of moving to Poland or Germany, should things finally get unbearable for them (and they are bound to become unbearable this winter, aren't they). An empty Ukraine - they don't care, suits them just fine. Makes it an even better battlefield on which to tie down the Russians.
In all of this Russia, like a stupid, immature adolescent with a massive issue of Learned Helplessness, always and only sees the ball on their opponents' side. It's glaringly obvious, just read Pesky Peskov's palaver of the day. RT headline today: "Zelensky knows how to end Ukraine conflict – Kremlin. Cessation of fighting depends on Kiev, according to Putin's spokesperson."

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Dec 8 2022 15:50 utc | 231

And talking about building and the front, from videos that are avaialble in Telegram, you can test that if the Ukronazis are in the mud through the knees it is becuase they are lazy and have not prepared for the winter they knew was coming. May be it is that they thought the war would be ended in winter?

The Russians and Wagner "musicians" trenches are covered by wood in soil and walls, isolating them from mud, water and humidity, they have kitcehsn, restrooms, bedrooms, and ven abyas with sauna....Must be ancient soviet knowledge transmitted from one generation to another....

It must be so why Putin loves so much those vacations in Siberia with the basics....

One would think that in those conditions, it would be the ukronazis who would be depressed and not the Russians as Strelkov states...

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 8 2022 15:57 utc | 232

@Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 8 2022 15:57 utc | 246

Banyas with sauna, sorry...

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 8 2022 15:59 utc | 233

“Nothing, nothing, is more important than personal power & survival to a psychopath. Thoughts ?
Posted by: Outraged | Dec 8 2022 1:23 utc | 121 “

You are correct about that understanding.
But..
What you seem to be not quite seeing is that the psychopaths are actually just the mercenary trained monkey that dances to the tune of the actual OWNERS.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 8 2022 12:52 utc | 212

Also, and I would guess primarily, motivating the actual owners (to borrow DunGroanin's phrase) is their allegiance to the deity often called Baal, to which they have pledged to destroy the world. So, despite preferring to survive the ordeal, they seem prepared not to if necessary.

Posted by: David Levin | Dec 8 2022 16:09 utc | 234

re: Bill Smithb | Dec 8 2022 13:05 utc | 217
you wrote:

Perimetr | Dec 8 2022 5:42 utc | 157 "The MK-41 launchers at the Aegis Ashore facilities in Romania and Poland can be loaded with Tomahawk cruise missiles"

Sure, they can be loaded but the control systems to fire the Tomahawks aren't there.

Well yeah, they aren't there until they are swapped out. Putin addressed this issue in 2016, when addressing a group of journalists in St. Petersburg, see the video Putin's Warning. Putin said:

"We are being told that this is part of a defensive, not offensive, capability, that these systems are intended to ensure defense against aggression. This is not true. This is not the way things are. A strategic missile defense system is part of an offensive strategic capability, and is tightly linked to offensive missile strike systems. Some high-precision weapons are used to carry out a pre-emptive strike, while others serve as a shield against a retaliatory strike, and still others carry out nuclear strikes. All these objectives are related, and go hand in hand with the use of high-precision conventional weapons.

All right, even if we put aside the interceptor missiles that will be developed in the future, increasingly threatening Russia, but the launch tubes where these missiles are stored, as I said, are the same that are used on navy ships to carry Tomahawk missiles. You can replace interceptor missiles with Tomahawks in a matter of hours and these tubes will no longer be used to intercept missiles. How do we know what is inside them? All they need is to change the software. This can be done seamlessly; even the Romanians would not know what is going on, since they cannot access these facilities, right? No one will know, neither the Romanians, nor the Poles. I know how this is done. In my opinion, this is a major threat. [this is substantiated by the published specifications of the Mark 41 launch system used in the Aegis Ashore BMD facilities, which can launch a variety of missiles."

Posted by: Perimetr | Dec 8 2022 16:13 utc | 235

Posted by: harryash | Dec 8 2022 15:39 utc | 242

In case you are not familiar with authors check this out

https://www.amazon.com/Gold-Warriors-Americas-Recovery-Yamashitas/dp/1844675319

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/9196-sterling-and-peggy-seagrave-gold-warriors/#comment-90901

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/13800-napoleon-d-valeriano/#comment-159752

Same scripts are being run in the 404 State but at stake is the land and what's below it. Japanese were more into shiny metals in quantities as large as possible.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 8 2022 16:32 utc | 236

@LightYearsFromHome | Dec 8 2022 9:59 utc | 190

Thank you for these, will see!

Posted by: Vintage Red | Dec 8 2022 17:21 utc | 237

Vintage Red @ 170

Thanks for that reference. Looking forward to reading. He also wrote good book on Medieval England. Revisionist history with a twist of humour. My kind of cocktail!

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 8 2022 17:31 utc | 238

Teal | Dec 8 2022 10:46 utc | 198

I doubt the RF was unaware of the drones... There are more than one pair of eyes in the skies.

Posted by: donten | Dec 8 2022 17:38 utc | 239

harryash | Dec 8 2022 14:28 utc | 230

Pease write all this in diary. Should you wish to publish it later, good luck!

Until then, please read B's admonition at the top of the post...

Posted by: donten | Dec 8 2022 17:55 utc | 240

Scotch Bingeington 245

Russia's resources are not finite. The Russian Federation contains or neighbours most of the world's Muslim population who have been continuously antagonised by the Neocons.

Witness this blog, Russia has the support of a much suppressed 50% of Western Christian Left-leaning populations who have been over-ridden by vote manipulation.

Russia has the tacit support of China , tacit because it doesn't want to unleash the total hatred of the arrogance of the West in its vast population.

The West , by contrast, has the support of a venal veneer of its middle classes on the chipboard of sleaze.

No contest. Bring it on.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 8 2022 18:12 utc | 241

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 8 2022 15:45 utc | 244

Related on how to survive the dismantling of modern Western osciety for the neolitic bhy Davos troupe an gents in the Eurpean Parliament and Comission, just yesterday I found over there this video on how a pair on kinda indonesian guys

Not Indonesian. Thai. There's another Burmese and Khmer group that also does this.

As for gringos settling Indonesia to flee the consequences of their own stupidity in Europe, I think the world has had enough White colonialism. Please don't come!

Which is yet another good reason for the Indo government to ban extra marital sex - everywhere gringos show up, whorehouses are sure to proliferate.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 8 2022 18:19 utc | 242

Lavrov is still a fool if he thinks that is a problem worth talking about... the Europeans being embarrassed! And NOT the Russians being embarrassed and humiliated yet again.

Russia needs to come to grips with reality, and fast. Or forget it.

SeanAU | Dec 8 2022 7:39 utc | 175

Re Lavrov's "...fightin' words. But that is all they are. Words. It is a better "mindset and attitude". But nothing has changed in reality. Nothing so far.
...
Words are cheap, and easy. :-)

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 8 2022 8:19 utc | 180
____

Yes, you prove that last point quite well. In Lavrov's case, unlike yours, words are mightier than swords. You excerpted about 2% of Lavrov's address yesterday (12/07/22), declare that Russia has changed nothing, has been embarrassed and humiliated and thus Lavrov is a fool. This is based on your "expert" analysis/assessment of tactical "failures", myopically focused on the current, limited borderland battlespace within a global struggle,

Lavrov's role is political analysis and diplomacy, the non-Orwellian meaning of which is utterly unfamiliar to most westerners; his is not military strategy or tactical planning. So, IMHO, your assessment has two categorical errors --- Lavrov's devastating and vital politic analysis as well as Russia's overarching strategic vision related to its immediate goals in Ukraine itself -- the limited scope that we are currently able to glimpse thru a knothole in the fence.

Arch Bungle(?): "It's like we're living in a world with the attention span of a ferret on cocaine!"

Although the machine translation is awkward, those of open mind should actually read Lavrov's devastating address for themselves:

https://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/news/1842506/

In it Lavrov painstakingly deconstructs, dismantles and fractures the entire shifty foundation of the US/NATO rules-based international odor --- resting as it does on ever-shifting quicksand. The RoW sees this. The European and American people inevitably will as well, hopefully before it is catastrophically irreversible.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Dec 8 2022 18:35 utc | 243

@ harry

You drinkin too much wine again ? Let’s not do like the other evening !

Posted by: Marc | Dec 8 2022 19:29 utc | 244

...Words are cheap, and easy. :-)

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 8 2022 8:19 utc | 181
.

you prove that, regularly.

Posted by: tucenz | Dec 8 2022 20:09 utc | 245

@ Arch Bungle | Dec 8 2022 18:19 utc | 260

I read you can buy one-hour marriage-licenses in Qom.

Posted by: John Kennard | Dec 8 2022 20:11 utc | 246

Gentlemen, gentlemen. It says right up at the top of the page :

« Lettuce not be shitty with each other. »

Posted by: Marc | Dec 8 2022 20:16 utc | 247

harryash | Dec 8 2022 16:12 utc | 249

Sure.
1. What people in Kherson? They have been evacuated. Such displacements tend to get permanent, just ask the Palestinians, or the 1,000s of Syrians who once lived in a peaceful Idlib province.
2. The name is Zelensky.
3. EU head-cunt von der Leyen is wrecking a whole continent. Without any pause, without any regrets, without having any second thoughts about anything. Instead, she comes up with a fresh sanctions package every day and more measures to keep the war going. And Ukraine under Zelensky doesn't for a minute consider even an armistice, let alone a permanent peace deal.

---

Giyane | Dec 8 2022 18:12 utc | 259

I admit I haven't looked, but I think in Russia's state budget, there are precise numbers putting a limit on everything and not the ∞ sign anywhere. So yeah, everything is limited. Which I don't see as a problem. I absolutely agree with you that Russia is very resourceful, if that's what you're saying. It is THE country to take on the lunatics in the West, sure. But why mess up the fighting efforts, intentionally?

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Dec 8 2022 21:24 utc | 248

@ Sean_UA | Dec 8 2022 20:02 utc | 265

See

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 8 2022 21:28 utc | 249

.. Russia's resources are not finite. The Russian Federation contains or neighbours most of the world's Muslim population who have been continuously antagonised by the Neocons. .. Posted by: Giyane | Dec 8 2022 18:12 utc | 259
.

There seem to have been enough dumfuk Muslims willing to help the Neocons' plans.
.
.


Not, of course, in relation to anything here; but one thing I will say for Assad, never an unkind word for Russia.

He doesn't bite the hand that feeds him.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 8 2022 15:06 utc | 239

Dr Assad is a great man with a great wife and family.

Posted by: tucenz | Dec 8 2022 22:19 utc | 250

SeanAU | Dec 8 2022 20:02 utc | 265

Don't worry, you will grow up one day. I see another idiot child has popped out from under a bridge. UK is getting desperate.

I guess I don't have much patience for shallow knee jerk thinking. What we see is historical changing of an era. Power shift from west back to east. Putin Lavrov Xi et al know history. Western new money does not. Watching the world come together in the face of American anglo bullshit is an amazing thing. History in front of our eyes.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2022 22:40 utc | 251

@ Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2022 22:40 utc | 274 with much more patience for the young ones than me.

You have kids Peter and I don't. I don't have to make excuses for the shit show and the why didn't I do something about it before now.

We are old Peter. Reality will sober the young ones up soon enough if they live very long.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 8 2022 23:55 utc | 252

psychohistorian | Dec 8 2022 23:55 utc | 276

Plenty of blind anger there not knowing what to hit out at. We will see a lot of it as the western world goes down.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2022 1:30 utc | 253

Posted by: John Kennard | Dec 8 2022 20:11 utc | 267

Thanks for the tip! Hope they come with prenup though ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 9 2022 2:14 utc | 254

I like Sean. You’re a bit high-strung, but you’re sharp, and you’re mostly positive.

Posted by: Marc | Dec 9 2022 2:27 utc | 255

What is Democracy made of ?

Posted by: Marc | Dec 9 2022 2:36 utc | 256

@ Marc | Dec 9 2022 2:36 utc | 280

Hello wingman-bot.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 9 2022 2:48 utc | 257

@ Outraged | Dec 9 2022 2:48 utc | 281

Hello Outraged person.

I like you too, man, I’ve enjoyed your posts.

Posted by: Marc | Dec 9 2022 2:52 utc | 258

One for One: prisoners…
(Russian)Viktor Bout has been exchanged for US Brittney Griner at the airport in Abu Dhabi.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 9 2022 2:58 utc | 259

SOCK PUPPETRY - FRAUD - WAS NOT POSTED BY ME

Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2022 22:40 utc | 274

You see what you want to see, not what is actually there. There is no changing of an era, just a slow chug into the 21st century.

Posted by: Sean AU | Dec 8 2022 22:49 utc | 275

There is a space between the n and A.

@274, 276, and 277 ... get a clue and a life. (shrug)

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 9 2022 3:11 utc | 260

@ b - IMPORTANT

They’re sockpuppeting us now : TO DIVIDE US.

How can we cooperate if we can’t even recognize each other ?

Posted by: Marc | Dec 9 2022 3:22 utc | 261

RT editor in chief, Margarita Simonyan on the Bout § Griner prisoner swap:
That the US chose to swap Griner, instead of its spy Paul Whelan.
Greater value is placed on a sports star of questioned gender, jailed for drug possession , than Whelan who was working for “his Fatherland”.
https://twitter.com/The_Real_Fly/status/1601049462528700417

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 9 2022 3:42 utc | 262

For those who question whether Griner’s birth gender should be questioned:
https://twitter.com/CamMichael59/status/1600963707500400640

Evidence indicates Biden Admin prioritized WNBA's Griner over Marine Paul Whelan, despite claiming otherwise
Stealth edited report and commentary from Marine's family and attorney indicates that Russia offered both as an option.
Jordan Schachtel
https://dossier.substack.com/p/evidence-indicates-biden-admin-prioritized
https://twitter.com/JordanSchachtel/status/1600951236169080832
Extracts:
>…Did the Biden Administration choose Griner over Whelan?
Although Biden officials, and the president himself, have denied that was the case, several pieces of evidence seem to indicate that Griner was indeed prioritized over Whelan, and that Moscow allowed the Biden Administration to choose either individual for the one to one swap.

>…NBC News, a known regurgitator of state propaganda, stealth edited its story about the decision to choose Brittany Griner over Paul Whelan.
For reasons unknown, NBC News, citing a senior U.S. official, changed its entire narrative about the prisoner exchange.
The key paragraph in question from NBC’s story first read, before being stealth edited (it is available at archive.ph):(link in original)
“A senior U.S. official told NBC News that the U.S. government had sought to have both Griner and Whelan released as part of a swap with the Kremlin, which wanted the return of Viktor Bout, a Russian arms dealer who has served 11 years of a 25-year sentence in the U.S.
But the official said Russia has treated Whelan differently because he is an accused spy, and that the Kremlin gave the White House the choice of either Griner or Whelan — or none.”
The stealth edited current version reads:
“A senior U.S. official told NBC News that the U.S. government had sought to have both Griner and Whelan released as part of a swap with the Kremlin, which wanted the return of Viktor Bout, a Russian arms dealer who has served 11 years of a 25-year sentence in the U.S. But the official said Russia has treated Whelan differently because he is an accused spy, and that the Kremlin ultimately gave the White House the choice of either Griner or no one after different options were proposed.”

>…”It sure seems, at least according to initial reports, along with the testimonies Whelan’s lawyer and family, that the Biden Administration is not telling the truth about its deal with the Russians.”

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 9 2022 4:04 utc | 263

December 8:
>…”Belarus Army announced the mass-deployment of their troops for securiting reasons at the towns of Gómel/Гомель, Mózyr/Мазыр, Yelsk/Ельск & Pinsk/Пінск (Purple dots).
The reason behind this deployment is "Securing the territory of the Republic of Belarus from terrorist attacks …”
https://twitter.com/Suriyakmaps/status/1600608723570925573

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 9 2022 5:49 utc | 264

December 8:
>…”Belarus Army announced the mass-deployment of their troops for securiting reasons at the towns of Gómel/Гомель, Mózyr/Мазыр, Yelsk/Ельск & Pinsk/Пінск (Purple dots).
The reason behind this deployment is "Securing the territory of the Republic of Belarus from terrorist attacks …”
https://twitter.com/Suriyakmaps/status/1600608723570925573


>…”Footage from Russian training exercise in Belarus
>…”The ruling party of Georgia has threatened to revoke its citizenship for participating in the Ukrainian conflict.
“Tthe entry of a Georgian citizen into the armed forces of another state automatically leads to the loss of his Georgian citizenship."
>…”A Swedish mercenary/volunteer in his 20s has died in Ukraine . The man was from southern Sweden and relatives have been informed.
This is confirmed by the Swedish Ministry of Foreign Affairs.”
https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/status/1601085998527496192

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 9 2022 5:55 utc | 265

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