Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 07, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-218

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Yesterday I noted that Sec State Blinken had blinked with regards to Crimea. The State Department spok more or less confirmed the shift:

It was unclear whether Mr. Blinken’s mention of the Feb. 24 lines was deliberate. Before its full-scale invasion of Ukraine on that date, Russia already occupied much of Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region, as well as Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula, which the Kremlin annexed in 2014.

Asked on Tuesday whether Washington drew any distinction between Ukrainian land seized by Russia after its Feb. 24 invasion of the country and territory it was occupying previously, Mr. Price demurred.

“It’s a question for the Ukrainian government. It is not a question for the U.S. government,” he said.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on December 7, 2022 at 16:52 UTC | Permalink

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“It’s a question for the Ukrainian government. It is not a question for the U.S. government,” he said.

Well, I think that is one and the same. There is no independent government in Kiev.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 7 2022 17:06 utc | 1

I thought we all understood that the US government is not "agreement capable?"

Don't you know, silly, that just because the stooge they trot out today says "X", doesn't mean that "X" will be true tomorrow. That's just how your friendly fascist rules-based order crowd rolls.

Posted by: Chris | Dec 7 2022 17:14 utc | 2

So many weasel words from the US govt. Up to the Ukraine govt. is it? There will surely be another govt. there headed by not Zelensky, but the timeline for that is yet to be known. But, no, Crimea is staying Russian.

Posted by: A.Pols | Dec 7 2022 17:20 utc | 3

They now need to put the US American secretary of state on the mirotvoretz kill list.

All jokes aside I don't think there is any kind of shift in the US position in regards to how they treat the Ukrainians; namely as a useful tool whose use might soon expire. But they now need to accomodate the general public to the shift in PR. I expect them to sell the loss of land and maybe even the partial collapse of the Ukrainian state as a "moderate success" and how bravely the Ukrainians fought and how the new unity within NATO is such a blessing that came from it etc. etc.

Sadly enough people will gobble that up. These are some stupid times we live in.

Posted by: Roland | Dec 7 2022 17:21 utc | 4

So, how will Ukraine hold elections in this situation?

Posted by: alek_a | Dec 7 2022 17:22 utc | 5

We keep reading about Russia’s superior martial doctrine, its superior anti-aircraft weaponry, its superior anti-missile technology and the like. Then we see flagships sunk, ports overrun by amphibious drones, attacks on airfields despite hundreds of miles of opportunity for those superior defenses to work. And we see an army in reverse, if not retreat. (This article credits Ukrainian artillery with keeping their forces in the fight; given air superiority and a massive firepower advantage, how can the UK side achieve so much?)

So just asking: What gives? None of us readers can tell what is actually going on; we can’t see the battlefield and don’t know the opposing strategies or tactics. But we keep being told not to trust our lying eyes while the RF takes punches to the chin — and without serious consequences that we can see. So again: What gives?

Posted by: Lou. | Dec 7 2022 17:26 utc | 6

Put some radioactive material on one of those old Soviet missiles/drones Ukraine has. Launch it at Moscow. WWIII.

Posted by: JackG | Dec 7 2022 17:31 utc | 7

Posted by: Lou. | Dec 7 2022 17:26 utc | 6

If anyone is having their superiority challenged it's NATO and the US.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Dec 7 2022 17:34 utc | 8

So just asking: What gives?

Demilitarization. Multiple towns were liberated last week. Rybar just reported that Yakovlevka can now be added to the list.

While the mud conditions continue (til close to the end of December), Russia will continue to demilitarize Ukraine with artillery. Don't interrupt your enemy when he is making the mistake.

And this doesn't take away from the success of the NATO drone attack on the air bases. It was a good attack. So?

Posted by: JackG | Dec 7 2022 17:36 utc | 9

Dear Lou @6, you may read the 'Intel Slava' channel in TG. We can see the conditions of UKR troops on ground, their words, their fates. Also we can see how RF charging forward, making rubbles out of the other side. We are yet to see the opposite published by any other channel. With the existing content viewers can decide which way the wind is blowing. Let me know if you get any UKR material to substantiate their winnings.

Posted by: KD | Dec 7 2022 17:37 utc | 10

There will be no Russian offensive in the face of copious javelins and stingers. Zelenski and the Sprit of Ukraine are Time Man of the Year, Russia is a humiliated husk, as is China. China is totally desperate, imagine, they think the Saudis will help!!! them and India!!! Tears... yeah, they will help Russia and China fall apart. In two weeks Finland and Sweden join NATO fully in February, Ukraine will join NATO, or a new pact with the U.S. and U.K. and....? In case Oban continues to overplay his pathetic hand. (all he begs for now to capitulate totally is 3bn euros...) So sad. Russia needs to retreat and become a modern democracy... the shame of Putin and Russians programed to worship a leader led to reap this tragic harvest. Withdraw completely or lose all. Just a shame. Shame. Shame. There are no good guys, but Russia has made themselves the greatest villains in fifty years, equalling only China in global contempt and revulsion. Will that be straightened out with violence? Death to the PRC, free Turtle Island, Free The Earth! Liberate yourself from moron!

Posted by: Ahole | Dec 7 2022 17:37 utc | 11

reply to 6

I will continue to use the "rope a dope" analogy. For Ukraine to win, they must get back all lands. For Russia to win, they need a little bit more of Donbass. Because of this, Ukraine must throw its troops at Russia while Russia mostly plays defense. Offensives cost lives far more than defense, in general.

I think Russia might be going slow on Bahkmut simply to kill as many Ukr. soldiers as possible. If Zelensky keeps throwing them at Russia, why advance? Just let it happen - until Ukraine can't attack anymore. Read the daily MoD report and note the antique tanks ( 60 yr old) and pickup trucks destroyed while lives are thrown away.

Ukraine was 4th worst on earth for population loss and had more deaths than births - before this war started. They will fight fanatically but can't make babies. Now, millions have run away and probably over 100K troops are dead. Add the loss of infrastructure and broken economy and Ukraine has lost. The question is to what extent Russia can 'win'.

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 7 2022 17:40 utc | 12

Going through some of the gruesome pictures on Telegram this is all so tragic. I hate the role the US is playing in this because without it, none of this happens.

The only gripe most Americans have with this, if they have any gripes at all, is how this effects their pocketbooks. It is very ugly.

Posted by: chunga | Dec 7 2022 17:42 utc | 13

@ ahole #11

Modern democracy like US - with big money buying big old politicians and elections in style of a 3rd world country?

Or democracy EU style - with money printing politicians far away from the needs of their people?

Posted by: nemo | Dec 7 2022 17:46 utc | 14

Crimea was like an administrative transfer to Ukrainian SSR in the mid 50's perhaps because Khruschev was Ukrainian. I believe that after the fall of the Soviet Union there was a referendum in which Crimea choose to follow an independent path with their own constitution, which was subsequently annulled by Ukraine. So definitely not an eternal part of the Ukrainian homeland.

Posted by: Mike Price | Dec 7 2022 17:48 utc | 15


I highly recommend the latest video of Alexander Mercouris where he expands on the Nuland visit, the deep-inside Russia drones and links it to the problem of nuclear weapons at the targeted bases.

Posted by: mk | Dec 7 2022 17:50 utc | 16

@ Posted by: Lou. | Dec 7 2022 17:26 utc | 6

Reports are that Ukraine is losing 500 troops per day (either killed or wounded) in the Bakhmut area alone. That is 15,000 per month.

At NATO training rate of 10,000 per month, Ukraine is down 1,200 or so per week. Russia is taking the troops faster than they can be trained. Which means they are taking out UNTRAINED troops as well.

Add in Adveeka, Krasny Lymon, and others fighting locations, and the rate is probably above 700 per day. That is about equal with the rate in the May June time frame when Russia took over lots of territory, some of which it has retreated from.

Is 700 per day lost a "Serious Consequence"?

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Dec 7 2022 17:52 utc | 17

Time Magazine's Person of the year.

https://time.com/person-of-the-year-2022-volodymyr-zelensky/

LOL

Posted by: Jpe | Dec 7 2022 17:54 utc | 18

Well if Russia with its newly mobilized troops can actually string together victories we will hopefully see an armistice.

Posted by: A.z | Dec 7 2022 18:01 utc | 19

Wake me when he makes Mad Magazine's Person of the year.

Posted by: Skiffer | Dec 7 2022 18:01 utc | 20

It's amazing how these idiots weasel around with words they way they do. Pretending that they haven't been meddling and directing chaos in Ukraine for decades. Who even believes this crap?

Posted by: Chevrus | Dec 7 2022 18:02 utc | 21

"Asked..whether Washington drew any distinction between...
“It’s a question for the Ukrainian government. It is not a question for the U.S. government,” he said."

total cop out. i'm sure they have an opinion.

Posted by: annie | Dec 7 2022 18:04 utc | 22

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Dec 7 2022 17:52 utc | 17

Nato is not training "10k/month", their official plans for the next 48 months are 50k, EU+USA combined, so something around 2200 per month. The other component comes from people kidnapped from streets and given a week or two training in-situ. The "promising ones" are sent to UK or whatever. Ukraine is now having another wave of mobilization btw.

The Ukrainian's who spoke about the training in UK told it was focused on digging trenches, acting as groups of 2-3 and defending and attacking buildings and didn't give it a high rating.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 7 2022 18:15 utc | 23

"I think Russia might be going slow ly ton Bahkmut simply to kill as many Ukr. soldiers as possible".

So they are attacking defensive positions slowly to kill the defenders? Does not make sense, since assault always costs more than defense.

Posted by: Fnord73 | Dec 7 2022 18:18 utc | 24

Posted by: Lou. | Dec 7 2022 17:26 utc | 6

Posted by: JackG | Dec 7 2022 17:31 utc | 7

Lou/jack everyone suffers from mosquito bites now n then....

but we dont buy a can of killer spray for one or two.

its like they said...its the learnin curve....how did the bastards get in.

You can be sure if USA/UK NATO hadda 1000 mile border to defend it would be like a cullender............Just look at Mexico/USA

n Jack ...dirty bombs...well quite easy to place one in Londistan/Jewyork.

Posted by: harryash | Dec 7 2022 18:19 utc | 25

There's definitely a pattern established.

Every month, Ukraine does something spectacular that doesn't influence the conflict in a decisive way but gives something for the war mongers and the Russophobes to be euphoric about.

Russia advances in Donetsk at a pace suitable for victory in 2123 A.D. (not a typo)

Meanwhile endless predictions about EU or Russian collapse are shouted down from both sides with zero introspection from being wrong the past 500 times.

The only thing that's real is that, though not entirely collapsing, the EU economy is more or less stagnant as it has been the past decade. Asian economies continue to grow bigger and powerful in relation to the west and are on track to attain economic primacy 10-15 years from now.

The only real change that's happening at an alarming rate is the de-dollarization of world trade led by the expanding BRICS++ nations. Expectedly, people act swiftly and decisively when their wallets are threatened.

The legacy of the Biden's presidency ladies and gentlemen, driving a stake into the dollar.

Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Dec 7 2022 18:21 utc | 26

Re: Jpe | Dec 7 2022 17:54 utc | 18

you wrote:
Time Magazine's Person of the year https://time.com/person-of-the-year-2022-volodymyr-zelensky/

History does repeat itself, especially with fascists running the show

Time Magazine Man of the Year, 1938:" Adolf Hitler

Posted by: Perimetr | Dec 7 2022 18:22 utc | 27

@6 Lou
The technical challenge of shooting down every single object fired in your direction in a gigantic territory over a nearly year long war is probably impossible. We don't even know the situation. It is possible Russia has moved up air defenses to deal with all the attacks in the Donbas and on Sevastopol and left areas inland less protected since Ukraine has attempted inland attacks until recently. Other than the sinking of the Moskva none of the other incidents you cite proved to be significant in the larger scheme of things as far as I can tell. They lost some fuel. Possible damaged a couple planes? Set some fuel depots and arms depots on fire? There have been many attacks on Sevastopol including the water drones and none of them have resulted in any advantage to Ukraine that I can tell. Most have been shot down. Sevastopol has clearly not been overrun by anything since the Nazis won a pyrrhic victory there in WW2. Simple questions for you. Would rather be a Ukrainian helicopter pilot in this war or a Russian one? A Ukrainian fighter pilot or a Russian fighter pilot? Would you rather be a Russian sailor stationed at or out of Sevastopol or uh... well... does Ukraine even have a naval base or a ship left? You should think about why that is?

Posted by: goldhoarder | Dec 7 2022 18:27 utc | 28

mk@16... haven't watched the vid but just shows how smart the Brits really are. They have shown the Ukie Nazis they don't need western nuclear weapons to attack Russia, Russia will inadvertently supply them for the price of a cheap drone.

At one point in time the IRA didn't know how to clean it's arse never mind an automatic rifle. So much for trying to get college kids to be revolutionaries. So the SAS, undercover, taught the lads how to make bottle bombs from used propane cylinders. Freaked the Columbian army out when FARC began deploying the newly developed Irish, hmmm, Brit technology. I see such technology trading taking place with guided rockets.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 7 2022 18:40 utc | 29

Well, it's something. Have a long, loooong way left to shift though to get to what they almost certainly will be presented with in the next few months.

Especially notable to see an actual half step back, however, from the poisonous nest of neo-cons known as the State Department. Retreat, concede, recognize realities they don't like, not exactly their favored tactics. Someone appears to perhaps increasingly unable to not see the huge, clear writing on the wall- you were never going to beat Russia on their border, in an area they see as an existential threat, short of burning the planet.

Posted by: muttman | Dec 7 2022 18:41 utc | 30

... and didn't give it a high rating.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 7 2022 18:15 utc | 23

At best the hope is that they’ll maim or kill a few Russians before inevitably being killed themselves. A disposable Ukrainian veneer over an increasingly brazen NATO guerrilla presences.

It is a great shame that RF cannot target paramilitaries and foreigners with sufficient precision as to thwart this cynical Empire design.

Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 7 2022 18:44 utc | 31

Ahole | Dec 7 2022 17:37 utc | 11
NAFO, Ahole, or Georgian Legion? Or just a wannabe auditioning?

"This digital army is called NAFO, or the North Atlantic Fellas Organization. It is a thoroughly modern group, a bizarre amalgamation of neo-Nazis, gamers, trolls, crypto-scammers, and many more, with NATO intelligence and NGO backing providing the horsepower necessary to spread their message to every corner of the globe.

"Unlike most far-right groups, their reach is not limited to Telegram groups and Discord chats. Through clever Internet memes and seemingly endless signal boosting from NATO’s propaganda apparatus, the Georgian Legion’s online army has grown to such an extent that it counts members of Congress and prime ministers among its ranks..."

"....On March 30, 2022, the Legion released one of its many propaganda videos revealing a successful “cleansing operation” about five miles north of Bucha. A bearded man celebrates wordlessly, drowned out by music, in front of the bodies of several Russian soldiers before the camera cuts to a captured armored vehicle. In this censored version, you see a scene of military glory; the Georgian Legion has vanquished its enemies and captured their weapons.

"In the full-length video, reserved at first for Ukrainian-language Telegram channels, you see what a “cleansing operation” really looks like. At the beginning of this extremely disturbing footage, several bound Russian soldiers lay with their throats slit in pools of their blood as the cameraman brags about Georgian prowess and shouts out his housing complex. One of the Russians starts to gurgle as he fights for air, catching the attention of the cameraman, who shoots the prisoner.

"Somehow the bound prisoner survives, and his breathing grows increasingly ragged as he desperately struggles for air. The cameraman yells “Look, he’s still alive!” before one of his comrades finally executes the prisoner with three shots at close range. The Georgians spend the rest of the video looting, celebrating, and posing for pictures with the men they murdered as they shout the old Fascist greeting “Slava Ukraini” back and forth, albeit without the traditional “Roman salute” that accompanied it..."
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2022/12/07/meet-the-brutal-proxy-force-fighting-the-russians-not-only-on-the-ground-in-ukraine-but-also-on-the-internet/?mc_cid=2bc7c3d3ff&mc_eid=f5d74d7021

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2022 18:44 utc | 32

At the risk of simply repeating what I said yesterday, this doesn't look like a significant policy shift to me. Rather, it looks like Blinken trying to have it both ways. The only way i could see a shift is if both Ukraine and the US became convinced that retaking territory from 2014 would not be possible.

Posted by: Chip Poirot | Dec 7 2022 19:00 utc | 33

Any comments, analyses, on the allegedly twarted intend of coup d´etat in Germany?

Ask about it here because this is obviously part of the ongoing war by NATO on Europe, with the focus put in Ukraine as scenery, but with the front extending through the whole continent, where there are some still not aware of whom really are their allies and enemies, and there are obviously foreign agents infiltrated at every European government.

It could be also a false flag operation destined to start the crushing of resistance to globalist imperialism and plundering of Europe.

We are assisting to a one false flag after another....

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 7 2022 19:04 utc | 34

Reply to Ahole - 11

I’m constantly amazed at the ever increasing cognitive dissonance expressed by the anti Russian crowd when objectively there is nothing but loss and devastation being suffered by the Ukrainian side yet Russia is getting humiliated according to their analysis. Occasionally they get a minor tactical victory whose overall significance amounts to squat but they never cotton on that Russia is doing exactly what Putin said they would which is to demilitarise Ukraine as objective number one. If that means digging in and not advancing far if doing that is successfully reducing the fighting power of the Ukrainian Army on a consistent basis then that’s called a successful implementation of Russia’s stated strategy. No level of propaganda noise will change objective facts on the ground but that never stops the endless statements of Russian humiliation and Ukrainian victory.

The exit strategy for the West will come when it can no longer be denied by the Western media that Russia has won big and were always winning big. Their face saving plan will be relatively easy to implement and will be to kill Zelensky and blame it on the Russians. They’ll then say that they do not support the new pro Russian government and all further Western aid will cease immediately. They’ll claim that their “victory” was stolen by these treacherous pro Russian traitors who had sabotaged the Zelensky regime from within and they’ll walk away declaring themselves as being still the undefeated champions.

Posted by: John G | Dec 7 2022 19:04 utc | 35

@ bevin | Dec 7 2022 18:44 utc | 32 with the disturbing link.....sad

The revolution will not be televised but this shit is the opiate of the day for the masses through the fascist media.

The shit show cannot end soon enough for me.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 7 2022 19:05 utc | 36

Posted by: Ahole | Dec 7 2022 17:37 utc | 11

Yes, Russia needs nano nono I don't know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k70u35t-SLI

And now for normal leaders, not big guys asking for ten percent of degeneracy.

http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/70046

Posted by: Paco | Dec 7 2022 19:07 utc | 37

Three cheers for Víctor Orban!! He has blocked the appeopriation of 18 billón euros to Ukraine. It was 26 against one, and he stood his ground regardless of the price he Will pay. See Gilbert Doctoro for more.

Posted by: c | Dec 7 2022 19:20 utc | 38

* the EU appropriation

Posted by: c | Dec 7 2022 19:21 utc | 39

Well, I´ll answer to myself...

With the noise they are doing all the mass media conglomerate, it is obvious this is a planed false flag antiterrorist operation to crush the already known resistance to NATO imperialism with the focus on linking it to Russia and the recent declaration of Russia as state sponsor of terrorism by the majority on Soros payroll of the European Parliament...

It is obvious that 50 people were not going to take over in Germany, the most prince and SFs they could had amongst them....

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 7 2022 19:23 utc | 40

Time Magazine Man of the Year, 1938:" Adolf Hitler
https://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,760539,00.html

Is that Adolf himself on the front cover, at the keyboard of the mighty Wurlitzer?

Posted by: Perimetr | Dec 7 2022 18:22 utc | 27

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 7 2022 19:31 utc | 41

Any comments, analyses, on the allegedly twarted intend of coup d´etat in Germany?

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 7 2022 19:04 utc | 34

Looks like some very high end keyboard warriors used the enemy's AI monitored communication system to dream of overthrowing globalist rule of Germany. They never had a chance. The response was like the US response to January 6th on steroids. We live on a prison planet indeed. Short of divine intervention, humanity is toast. There is a reason almost every open dissident in the west is Christian or in some cases New Age. Without faith, we don't have a prayer. Even with faith, the short term prospects are poor, Revelation mentions martyrdom for many of those who refuse the mark. God help us.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/heinrich-xiii-prince-suspected-plotting-be-german-kaiser-coup-2022-12-07/

Posted by: Drifter | Dec 7 2022 19:35 utc | 42

Posted by: annie | Dec 7 2022 18:04 utc | 22

The US position is that it has no opinion on whether Ukraine should surrender or fight to the last breath, to give up all, or some, or none of its land - the US will simply give them billions of dollars a month in real stuff (not funny money) whatever Ukraine wants to do without attempting to influence them in any way. I don't think either of us believe that.

Posted by: Tim | Dec 7 2022 19:35 utc | 43

In the context of the central banks launching their simulations of CBDCs, and the about to explode derivatives buble, plus the economic dowturn in Europe, Uk and the US, and taking into account that, as TASS points out, it is periodically that the German authorities detain far-right conspirators agsint the government ans system, could not be this alleged coup d´etat intend by some 50 people ( as unbelievable as any other plot thye invent, since it is impossible that 50 people could take over in A country with such a huge number of US/NATO bases...) the alibi they need to resintate state of emergency needed so as to control the masses when they start the supresion of cash and conseuqent corralitos?

I fear that we are continuing funding Elensky, his Ukrainian nazi mafia and the NATO´s own war on us with our savings and pension funds now...

Had those German 50 people any notice of this before us?

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 7 2022 19:35 utc | 44

Putin...
http://kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/70046
"As for the authorities of some of our neighboring countries, Poland. You also know this as a former resident of Ukraine: there, nationalist elements sleep and see [how] to return their so-called historical territories, that is, to take the Western territories that Ukraine received as a result of the decision of Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin after World War II. As you know, these territories were taken away from Poland and given to Soviet Ukraine. Of course, the nationalist elements in Poland are asleep and see [how] to return these territories to Poland, and they will strive for this, no matter what anyone says. We can see this even from their literature, from their arguments and speeches. That, in the end, is what the case will be led to, of that I have no doubt.

I have already said and I want to repeat: the only real guarantor of the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine within its current borders could be Russia. Which contributed to the fact that Ukraine once received these territories after the Second World War – by Stalin's decision, of course. But this is already a matter for Ukrainian politicians themselves-and, of course, current politicians, in my opinion, do not understand much about this and do not think about it. Although some, as it seems to us, are already beginning to think. Any more active involvement of their Western ally and neighbor in Ukrainian affairs today will ultimately be aimed at alienating Ukrainian territories, the western part of Ukraine. It would be nice if they thought about it and understood what was going on. Well, never mind them, that's their business, I repeat."

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 7 2022 19:36 utc | 45

http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/70046
Posted by: Paco | Dec 7 2022 19:07 utc | 37

Paco, thanks for posting that again here. I translated that and read it when you first put it up
(U.S. No Longer Supports Fight For Crimea - Paco | Dec 7 2022 16:53 utc | 502)
a few hours ago.

It's so foreign to my experience as a US vet. The Russians really care about their troops, far, far more
than bumper stickers and ribbons. And the feelings for the people in the newly gained territories
is so evident in the reports given. They even have compassion for draftees
who just can't handle being taken into service. Very touching, all of it.

Took me 10 minutes to translate, 30 minutes to read. Easily the best use of my time today.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Dec 7 2022 19:39 utc | 46

Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 7 2022 19:23 utc | 40 etc

I am sure you must be right.

Posted by: Tim | Dec 7 2022 19:40 utc | 47

waynorinorway | Dec 7 2022 19:39 utc | 46

I looked up the transcript after reading a propaganda piece at Reuters. What I find interesting about Putin, he is constantly meeting with genuine grass roots NGO's and ordinary people rather than relying on what various ministers tell him. Dirty laundry type issues are openly discussed and not hidden. Unthinkable here in the west. I see the transcript is still ongoing.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 7 2022 19:58 utc | 48

Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 7 2022 19:35 utc | 44

I see the western wurlitzer is linking the supposed coup plot to the anti sanctions protests.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 7 2022 20:00 utc | 49

re: Gt Stroller | Dec 7 2022 19:31 utc | 41

you ask, "Is that Adolf himself on the front cover, at the keyboard of the mighty Wurlitzer?"

I think it is supposed to be Hitler at the keyboards . . . today the maestro is Washington
.

Posted by: Perimetr | Dec 7 2022 20:01 utc | 50

Excerpt from "Heinrich XIII: the prince suspected of plotting to be German kaiser in coup"

Prosecutors said on Wednesday Heinrich had reached out to representatives of Russia, whom the group saw as its central contact for establishing its new order. They said there was no evidence the representatives had reacted positively to the request. The Kremlin said there could be no question of any Russian involvement in the alleged plot.

If the RF, or any other country, was anti-WEF globalist, the people plotting to restore home rule to Germany would have received foreign assistance. In the Soviet period, the Comintern provided international assistance to like minded movements abroad. Nothing like that is happening now.

Posted by: Drifter | Dec 7 2022 20:07 utc | 51

Well, it seems that the only analysis i found by www.geoestrategia.es concludes the same as me...

And intend by the current German cabinet to crush the nationalist resitance to the dismantling of Europe in the verge of austericide this time appplied to the Germans as voluntary punishment.

It seems that the "conspirators" were a bunch of retired people who met in a castel to discuss the current disastrous state of affairs in GermAany, as we do here and at a few other places....

Beware on the witch hunt that this could unleash. they are wishing to put their hands on us...

What does this mean for German politics?

▪️The largest anti-terrorist operation of the special services in the country's history, as well as active media coverage and mountains of prepared information, leave no room for a discussion about the guilt of the suspects.

▪️The German media have already explained that 58-year-old Birgit Malsack-Winkemann, being a member of the Bundestag, is familiar with the Reichstag building and knows how to shoot well (apparently, to personally assault the government with an army of militias).

▪️Given the small number of detainees and the dubious reputation of the suspects, whose organization is often compared to US conspiracy theorists QAnon, the conclusion is that the Scholz government, under this pretext, decided to crack down on the opposition nationalist in a coup

▪️There have already been statements from the German prosecutor's office that those suspected of preparing a coup allegedly contacted representatives of the Russian Federation, but received no support.

It appears that the upcoming criminal case on terrorism will silence AfD lawmakers for a long time, who have often allowed themselves to criticize sanctions against Russia and generally disagree with the current government's pro-American course.

http://www.geoestrategia.es/index.php/noticias/historico-de-noticias/39499-2022-12-07-12-54-30

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 7 2022 20:10 utc | 52

The reality of dreams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySR0bUjrEL8

vs

the power of nightmares:

“If we wanted to fight a war in Afghanistan [Ukraine] and win it, I could win that war in a week. I just don’t want to kill 10 million people,” Trump [Putin] said.

“I have plans on Afghanistan [Ukraine] that if I wanted to win that war, Afghanistan [Ukraine] would be wiped off the face of the Earth,” the president continued. “It would be gone. It would be over in — literally in ten days. And I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to go that route.”

Or so it could be implied, as what should be good for the American goose should also good for the Russian gander. Isn't that so?

Posted by: deliriumtremens | Dec 7 2022 20:15 utc | 53

I am thinking this plot of the coup intend in Germany could have been also a trap to catch Russia red handed if it would have gone to fall for this...

Take into account we are assiting here to a lot of theatre in this war.....

Russia does not need to support any coup in any European country as the governments are falling by their own weight of incompetence and willling harm to their nations nad peoples, why getting dirty hands when you have not but to wait a few weeks /months?

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 7 2022 20:17 utc | 54

@deliriumtremens

Putin never daid those things. If Im wonr please post his quotes.

Otherwise its pure delirium ;)

Posted by: Comandante | Dec 7 2022 20:19 utc | 55

I don't know much about this German group, but what I do know is Nazi Ukraine is protecting democracy and human rights, and anyone with traditional family values is far right subhuman in this Orwellian world.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 7 2022 20:24 utc | 56

They never had a chance.

Posted by: Drifter | Dec 7 2022 19:35 utc | 42

---

They would not stand a chance even if they had succeeded in a coup d'état. Everyone here in Germany knows that Reichsbürger are a special kind of stupid (though there are numerous academics among them).

Absolutely no one here takes these people seriously, everyone laughs at them. Most likely, these retards will be used as an excuse to further push through the surveillance state.

Posted by: Nobody | Dec 7 2022 20:27 utc | 57

Top Ukrainian diplomat lists conditions to start peace dialogue with Russia

Dec 07 2022, Wednesday

Opinion in Kremlin has to be changed, Russia must withdraw forces from ‘entire territory of Ukraine,’ says Ukrainian foreign minister.

The Ukrainian foreign minister on Tuesday listed two conditions as a starting point for a “comprehensive peace dialogue” with Russia.

“To end the war in Ukraine, two things have to be done - the opinion in the Kremlin has to be changed … Second, Russia must withdraw its forces from the entire territory of Ukraine. These are the starting points of a comprehensive peace dialogue, but in the meantime there are many issues that need to be addressed,” Dmytro Kuleba said in an interview with NDTV, an Indian broadcaster.

...

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 7 2022 20:43 utc | 58

The FBI have extensive experience in this sort of thing.

What was the phrase anti-fascist protesters used to mock neo-Nazis with?

“Ohne Verfassungsschutz wäre euch zu Dritt“?

A word to the wise is sufficient.

Posted by: Moaobserver | Dec 7 2022 20:45 utc | 59

Reichsbürger mit käse, zwiebeln, zalat und tomaten, halte die gurke.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 7 2022 20:59 utc | 60

It looks like this will go on for 2-3 years. Ukraine’s infrastructure ia being progressively destroyed. Without electricity there is no sewage treatment, running water, telecommunications, hospitals etc. The end result will be outbreaks of diseases such as cholera, and armed gangs running around.

Russia does not need to rebuild central and western Ukraine, they can just keep bombing it and making it unlivable. And the US and EU cannot rebuild it under these conditions.

Westenvand Central Ukraine will become a depopulated wasteland, effectively demilitarized. And the EU will become deindustrialized and economically downtrodden.

This is what dwmilitarization looks like.

Posted by: Augustus Caesar | Dec 7 2022 21:00 utc | 61

Posted by: Lou. | Dec 7 2022 17:26 utc | 6

I agree, Lou. I suspect they're pausing while they address widespread and deep problems within their military. They'll probably be a much more effective force after this. But I think it wouldn't be a quick, easy fix, it seems to be systemic problems they have. You know, when all down the chain of command or supply everyone's taken a bit of graft how do you weed them all out? And should you? Or forgive and forget? Then how to trust in the future?

But there's definitely something suspicious, always has been. They simply don't use tools they have to hand. Like propaganda, like informing the western masses - sure Putin and Lavrov speak excellent intelligent explanatory sense but the masses don't see/read those speeches. And there's nothing else.

Threaten Kiev is a no brainer. But it seems it is also a no-go for them.

And no one is giving good information on what's making the Donbas entrenchments so hard to overcome. All I ever see are trenches in the dirt with a few infantrymen in them. How can they stop a modern army with much heavy equipment and many guns and rockets and guided munitions and drone observations?

What are they stopping the advances with? Heavy machine guns? What use are they against armor? So then it must be anti tank. Is that what it boils down to? Six months of advances stopped by shoulder mounted anti-tank? Mlaw's I think they call them don't they? Well if so isn't that very newsworthy? I've never heard it said though.

And in connection with that I have seen a few shots of tanks with apparently steel concrete reinforcing mesh around them. Like they're sitting in a pen. I don't know but it occurred to me that perhaps they are anti-tank screens? Weld such a screen around the tank - cheap quick and easy - and perhaps with a 6" mesh the chances are good that any anti-tank missile will hit the mesh and blow there before it hits the tank?

Might be a crazy idea but the idea of screens isn't crazy. That's was reactive armor is after all. But I never hear any mention of such new techniques being practiced in the field.

In fact there's a completely new kind of war being fought out there - where everything you do can be seen by the enemy and where munitions can be guided directly on to you. And where slit trenches can apparently stop a whole army for months.

And yet the real military discussion of how and why and when of all this is conspicuously absent.

A whole army moves from a very important location and advance into enemy territory on the basis of the threat of a dam being breached - yet fails to make a corresponding threat to the enemy who is in the perilous position of having his capital city located below a large dam.

It is all very suspicious and the sense I make of it is that the warfare is theatre and the real war is a game of chess being played at the international political/economic/financial level where the powerful discuss realities and possibilities and decide what will be and then give orders to have it play out on the ground.

The conflict is a 'piece' on the board. It is in play. It doesn't really have to do anything or go anywhere any more than mostly your pieces on your chessboard when you play chess go anywhere or do anything - they mainly sit and kind of mutely exert their power, their influence.

I think that's it. The war is in place. Exerting its influence. There's minor shifts in it as one side raises a question and the other answers. But that's all.

I know of no window into this aspect.

Posted by: abrogard | Dec 7 2022 21:08 utc | 62

WEATHER FORECAST FOR DONETSK CITY (12/7/2022): For the last 6 days both the day and night temperatures in Donetsk City have been below freezing causing the ground to start to freeze over.

However, the day temperatures are going to rise above freezing STARTING DECEMBER 8TH. December 8th the day temperature will be 34. The day temperature will rise to 47 going into Monday, December 12th. Then day temperatures will vary between 38 to 47 with the lows being just at or above freezing at night until December 19. This means the mud will remain until after December 19th.

On December 19th the temperature will take a significant drop to a 29 degree day high and 24 degree night low. From December 19th to December 22nd the weather forecast shows a high of 30 degrees with a low of 21 degrees. This significantly lower temperature will start to freeze the ground.

The fields and non-paved roads are going to stay muddy until both the day and night temperatures are below freezing for a least a few days. This could delay major offensives which require traversing with heavy equipment across muddy fields or muddy roads until the ground freezes both day and night.

Look for major offensives that use fields and dirt roads to begin after the December 21st when the ground freezes.

https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/ukraine/donetsk/ext

Posted by: young | Dec 7 2022 21:11 utc | 63

Posted by: Ahole | Dec 7 2022 17:37 utc | 11

I think Russia IS the modern democracy. The USA is a dictatorship.

They have dictated that Europe commit hari kari and Europe obeys. UK obeys. Everyone obeys.

They rule by illogic, untruth, unreason, diktak and that's unarguable. They quite simply haven't told a truth since 9/11 to pick an arbitrary point in history.

Posted by: abrogard | Dec 7 2022 21:13 utc | 64

The special military operation is a long process, but it has already yielded significant results, Putin saidtass

The significant result Putin talks about is that the people of Donbass and Lugansk are now Russians.

Meanwhile, the war wears down Europe more than Russia. A comparison: gasoline prices in us dollar per litre in Russia and Germany on 5.12.22.

Gasoline: Russia: 0.814, Germany: 1.816
Diesel: Russia: 0.88, Germany: 1.926

IMHO, TV news in EUrope is infantile. News is repetitive, like an advertisement. News is either a great victory of Ukraine, or mass graves of people killed by Russians. The sound track of war videos features women screaming, even if there are no women in the video. And each day has news about Russia, China, and Iran, all bad. Next, news has suggestions how to use less electricity, less gas, or cook with cheaper food.

It's very coarse, but this propaganda works. The vast majority of people think they are on the good side, fighting the good fight, and Putin is seen as pure evil. Support for the war is still stronger in countries like Lithuania, Romania.
But electricity and gasoline prices are ruining people, and closing down businesses. People wish the war was already over, and the idea that war in Ukraine could still be ongoing next Christmas is seen as too pessimistic to contemplate.

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 7 2022 21:15 utc | 65

Translated from Russian TG:

ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z) (Tranformation (Z)) - (5 x Zoomable referenced maps at link)

Frontline report for the morning of 07.12.2022

On the Donetsk front, Russian troops supported by artillery attacked the AFU stronghold in Krasnogorovka. The Ukrainian army, in turn, shelled Donetsk, Makeyevka, and Horlivka. The intensity of AFU fire increased, indicating the replenishment of barrel and rocket artillery ammunition. (Fig. 1)

To the south of Bakhmut, the Wagner PMCs carried out assault actions from Kurdyumovka and Andreevka. Kleshcheyevka was hit by artillery. Fierce fighting continued on the eastern outskirts of Bakhmut. The Wagner PMC continues attempts to break through the AFU defenses. It is also attacking on the southeastern outskirts of Soledar. And to the northeast near Yakovlevka. Ukrainian troops are holding their defenses. (Fig. 2)

The Russian army has intensified attacks on the northern section. On the ground it attempted a breakthrough east of the city in the direction of Verkhnekamenskoye. (Fig. 3)

&

ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z) (Tranformation (Z)) (Referenced map at link(Place-names & Red Arrows ...)

The Russian army is actively attacking in the Donbass and Limansk direction - the main thing from the report of the

General Staff of the AFU:

▪️Russian forces are concentrating their efforts on the offensive in Limansk, Artemivsk and Avdeevsk.

▪️Russian forces undertook assault actions near Belogorovka LNR and Verkhnekamenskoye, Sporny, Yakovlevka, Bakhmut, Bila Gora, Kurdyumovka, Novobakhmutovka, Marinka and Novomikhailovka DNR.

▪️In the Kupyansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhya directions, Russia conducts defensive actions.

▪️In the past 24 hours, Russia carried out 10 missile and 33 air strikes. Facilities in Kramatorsk, Kryvyy Rih, and the village of Stepnoye in Zaporizhzhia Region were hit.

&

Statement by Major Filiponenko I.M., official representative of the People's Militia of the LNR, on the situation on 07.12.2022.
The enemy suffered heavy losses in manpower and military equipment in the past 24 hours during active offensive actions of the LNR People's Militia units. Destroyed:
➖ up to 80 personnel;
➖ two artillery pieces;
➖3 armored vehicles;
➖ two unmanned aerial vehicles;
➖14 units of special automotive equipment.
The enemy continues shelling civilian infrastructure in LNR settlements.
▪️In the past 24 hours, Ukrainian armed formations shelled the village of STAROBELSK using American M142 HIMARS MLRS, firing two rockets.
Three employees of the Starobelski Elevator Municipal Enterprise were wounded and the enterprise's storage facilities and weighing room were damaged as a result of the shelling.

&

Kherson Herald

Yesterday at 16:30 guided missiles from URAGAN multiple rocket launchers struck the Ukrainian Navy base and the British combat float base in Ochakov.

As a result of the shelling, life support systems and mooring infrastructure were destroyed. Casualties of the enemy were: 3 vehicles, 15 people killed and 10 people wounded.

&

Statements by Denis Pushilin, the acting head of the DNR, from an interview with the TASS news agency:

◾️Almost 340 settlements have been liberated in the DNR since February this year;

◾️The liberation of the settlement of Maiorsk in the Donetsk People's Republic created the prerequisites for the advance towards Dzerzhinsk and the subsequent encirclement of Artemivsk;

◾️Kiev sends a large number of military personnel in the direction of Svatov and Kremenna;

◾️Mobilized people from the republic and other Russian regions are trained in the DPR;

◾️DPR military prisoners are subjected to special abuse in western Ukraine.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 7 2022 21:17 utc | 66

"I think Russia might be going slow ly ton Bahkmut simply to kill as many Ukr. soldiers as possible".
So they are attacking defensive positions slowly to kill the defenders? Does not make sense, since assault always costs more than defense.
Posted by: Fnord73 | Dec 7 2022 18:18 utc | 24

I think it does, doesn't it? Attackers lose at a rate of 3:1 they say. So how to change that? Go very cautiously and safely. Shell the christ out of them until probes indicate all resistance is gone. Then move in. With the bonus that they apparently keep throwing in more reserves to untenable positions.

If you didn't 'keep attacking' they'd maybe relax and just dig deeper. So you 'keep attacking' like stirring a hornet's nest and when the hornets come flooding out you destroy them in masses.

I think that's the idea, that's the narrative they've been feeding us.

Posted by: abrogard | Dec 7 2022 21:21 utc | 67

Outraged | Dec 7 2022 20:43 utc | 58

It seems Russia has settled in for a long war. Not just Ukraine but the collective west. Static frontline delivering industrial attrition. Ukraine is a communist construct. Idiots passed some lustration laws shortly after cookie put them in power. Replacing all things communist with Nazi heros. At the start of the SMO putin said Russia can help with de-communisation.

With decomunisation the Ukraine state will cease to exist. Nobody as yet has commented on the section of Putin's last meeting I quoted. Western Ukraine going back to Poland is a matter between Ukraine and Poland. OUN Ukroids back to square one. Polish admin over Galician peasants.
Even here so many operate on projection and assumptions

"Russia is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."

I now just sit and watch. Russia is not fighting by western rules.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 7 2022 21:22 utc | 68

I think that there has been a policy shift

Also posted on the Blinken blinked thread

I just read this in the very pro US influential journal

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/go-slow-crimea.

Basically it is saying that Crimea is impossible for now, but Ukraine should put the pressure on around the sea of Azov, to disrupt water supply (in other words, they would have destroyed the dam but Russia stopped this by evacuating, but it might still be a good strategy).

So if this is what some of the elite are thinking now, it seems Blinken was not having a slip of the tongue.

Fear of nuclear escalation is also runs through the article.

Posted by: watcher | Dec 7 2022 21:31 utc | 69

@Posted by: Passerby | Dec 7 2022 21:15 utc | 65

The thing is that Stoltenberg recently stated that even in the case of the war in Ukraine ending, countering Russia will continue...

Thus expect the energy pricess and thus of everything to remain high for the foreseable future...Not in vain the coroporations and governments are plundering a lot from us in gains and taxes, why they would want to stop now, if everybody except a bunch of worried elders in Turingia conceeds?

And morevoer, why the US would allow Europe to rise its head after having taken such efforts to take it down as competitor.

Europe will remain as desindustrialized scortched earth as long as NATO exists. In fact that and no other is the purpose of NATO existence as imperial foreign legion to keep the increasingly high tributes flowing...

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 7 2022 21:35 utc | 70

Your post said "superior" and then you ask why are there examples where it isn't impenetrable or unbeatable. Two different capabilities.

Posted by: Simon | Dec 7 2022 21:37 utc | 71

"Mr. Price .....
“It’s a question for the Ukrainian government. It is not a question for the U.S. government,” he said."

This, with the same statement semi-confirmed by Biden, that the "Ukranians will decide", should possibly read "the OWNERS of Ukraine will decide". (The owners probably consider both Zelensky and Blinken as useful fronts for them. Zelensky definitely, and their influence easily crosses into political "territory").

The Owners are of course corporate or financial giants such as Blackrock, Cargill and others who have claims on Ukrainian asssets and land. These are bigger than Banks, and have special relationships with the MMT feds. they also have multiple trillions of hidden derivatives to play with.

Unless they decide that they will stop the war (from the Ukrainian side), it will continue.

I suggest that they were a major part of the start of the problem. Dividing up Ukraine was only to be the opening for dividing up Russia, and while the first part has already been observed by the Oligarchic control of Ukraine being systematically "handed" to them (excluding the "old" owners such as Kolomoisky), the recent "agreement" between Blackrock and Zelensky gives control ONLY to Blackrock for all further "industrial management" (Choice).
**

So what happened then? I reckon that the idea that Ukraine was "winning" without effort - got lost, as it has become clear that the Russian objective is NOT to let go. That they will continue until Ukraine folds. At which point all those "assets" held by the oligarchic conglomerate (OC)become so much wallpaper.

Logically, the OC's want to retain as much as possible of their holdings for further profit. So some sort of "halt" in the Ukrainian war becomes a necessity if it could be based on the lines of the front at the moment. Thus we now have the hesitancy that is evident in the US-west positions, and the disinfo "PR" put out that the Russian seek a "way out" etc.

The shaking of the dollar, gold buying and the general dissolution of assumed US domination are additional features that may push the OC's to seek some sort of solution, temporary maybe to at least keep what they assume to be their acquired "rights".
**

They are not yet going to give up the brutal OPA's of entire civilisations and countries that they have been in the habit of profiting from in the past. But an element of doubt and new insecurity might be tickling the entrails of the Dukes of the financial pig-sty.

Posted by: Stonebird | Dec 7 2022 21:40 utc | 72

"Gasoline: Russia: 0.814, Germany: 1.816
Diesel: Russia: 0.88, Germany: 1.926"

Europe has high gas taxes that have to be factored in. Germany likely paid a lot more than Russia in 2021.

Posted by: Simon | Dec 7 2022 21:43 utc | 73

I think the demilitarization goal is succeeding far beyond Putin's dreams. I doubt they figured they would be draining NATO this badly as to 'the cupboard being bare'.

It would be interesting to see if the Wagner group is actually waiting around Bakhmut to see if reinforcements are still being sent in. If they are, they can be eliminated conveniently - and Ukraine gets weaker by the day because they won't do what Russia has already done and retreat strategically, if it is of general benefit to the SMO. Anyone who still thinks Kharkiv and Kherson should been held at all costs should consider this deadly contrast.

Dead tank count is now beyond 7000.

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 7 2022 21:44 utc | 74

@ Peter AU1 | Dec 7 2022 21:22 utc | 68

Ukraine is true Nazi construct. De-communization means destruction revocation of all 'Ukraine' was granted/gifted, yet has contempt for, no ? RF is inside Empire decision cycle, inside it's self-delusions & atrophied cold war propaganda mindset ... hence anticipates its so predictable actions & uses it's delusions false assumptions against itself. Judo ... Putin ... Stavka vs Nazi Germany (see: Kursk, battle of.). Indeed using western own rules/lawfare & fossilized false assumptions/beliefs/delusions/STUPIDITY against 'em.

It is now 10 months in to a reverse Cold War, the RoW led RF-China-Iran-BRICS-OPEC+, etc are assisting Empire in isolating itself in their very own 'Walled Garden' & happy to let them rot. And no-one in the RoW is going to be in a hurry to demand, 'Tear this wall down!'. 3-6 generations from now maybe ...

RF stated yesterday via Lavrov or deputy UN rep(?), can dig up the ref if you wish, but essentially (paraphrased, intent):

We will not meet or discuss anything with the 'west' unless you demonstrate actual integrity & good faith as a precondition. Furthermore, we expect it will take some considerable time for your populations, your polities, to install responsible progressive governments. We are prepared to wait.

The diplo-speak from RF has become evermore direct & unvarnished. KSA now openly mocks Prez Biden & US ... & so on.

China surpassed US more than a decade ago. The last time US had any real possibility of militarily challenging China was also more than a decade ago ... out of retirement Tom Cruise as grandpa 'Maverick' ain't gonna Hollywood style single-handedly save the day ... ship sailed long ago.

RF has caught US/NATO/EU in a steel-bear-trap in Ukraine & wests own policies/sanctions/commitments etc ... & is in no hurry to end this until total submission & acceptance of terms, IMV. Think German WWI surrender, French railway carriage ...

Essentially the task set in WWII, yet left unfinished, must be completed ... the 4th Reich must be crushed, utterly.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 7 2022 21:53 utc | 75

Fnord73 | Dec 7 2022 18:18 utc | 24
abrogard | Dec 7 2022 21:21 utc | 67

It is amusing to watch you people with your emotionally-driven persepctives change narratives every few weeks to provide copium for yourselves when your expectations are frustrated. It is like watching rats in a maze with sugar dropped at intervals to ensure a change in direction.

If you want to predict what will happen in Ukraine all you have to do is look to Georgia. In 2008 it used its "NATO-connections" to try and solidify its hold over "autonomous" territories. Today those territories are Russian protectorates, their status "unresolved" in the eyes of the west going on 14 years now.

Posted by: janes | Dec 7 2022 21:56 utc | 76

Asia Times reports:

Military sources: Ukraine missiles used US guidance

Both NATO and Russian observers reject Blinken denial of US satellite involvement in attacks on Russian bases

NATO sources as well as Russian military sources reject US Secretary of State Antony Blinken’s claim Tuesday that the United States had nothing to do with Ukraine’s missile strike against Russian air force bases December 5 and 6.

“We have neither encouraged nor enabled the Ukrainians to strike inside of Russia,” Blinken told reporters during a meeting with US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Australian officials.

Multiple military sources in NATO countries as well as Russia contradict him, reporting that the reconditioned Russian Tu-141 drones that Ukraine launched at Russian air bases downlinked US satellite GPS data to hit their targets.

...

Ref: https://asiatimes.com/2022/12/military-sources-ukraine-missiles-used-us-guidance/

Posted by: too scents | Dec 7 2022 22:00 utc | 77

German coup plot

Here a summary in my words / embellishments / translation of an excellent article on Anti-Spiegel:


52 apartment searches, 25 detained
German attorney general press release informs that the group planned to storm the parliament, hoping that this will trigger a revolt and bring the putschists to power. This official version is either BS, or the putschists are dumb as 100 meters of dirt road. Reason: All coups in history had the backing of the military. No military top tier personnel was arrested / involved. The coup would have quickly been quelled by elite units.
The media present the group as top hazardous. There is evidence of a staged drama. Spiegel and Bild (close to the government) had been at the places of action right from the beginning, giving live reports of raids and detentions. Other media came later. Spiegel published a long article only 2.5 after the operation started. The article was pre-prepared and at best somewhat modified on Dec. 7. Georg Heil, journalist and member of the state TV magazine “Kontraste” and brother of the German minister of labor affairs said on the evening before: “I suspect there will be many exclusive reports tomorrow”. At 7:40 a.m. the next morning, Kontraste reported live from a raid in Berlin Wannsee.
If this group were really this dangerous to justify the claim to be the “biggest conspiracy since the founding of the Federal Republic of Germany”, the media should/would not have been informed in advance.

My own opinion: I observed the “Reichsbürger” group from the corner of my eyes for a couple of years. Nothing exciting, so I never digged deep. The picture I received: There were military people among them. Petty officers, no big brass. Nazis and arms hoarders, not averse to violence (sadly, one politician was killed in 2019). Many members seem to lean towards the AfD party.
Educated guess: Germany has a tradition of the inland secret service to infiltrate fringe groups and lead them on a too long a leash. (--The far-right NSU terror group was able to kill 9 people under strict observation; The role of the German MI5 could never be elucidated, information to parliamentary committees of enquiry was blocked; In one instance sat a MI5 informer next to the room in a bar where a killings took place, only to disappear after the killing; In several cases, the DNA found on shells was identical...that track was eagerly followed in vain… it was from a packaging lady in an ammo factory; Important observation files got lost in a flooding, only to reappear years later in (not compromising) fragments…--)
I have reasons to believe that these deep state figures played the same role here: Observe idiots, even encourage them (official excuse “find out networks in the background”) to simply follow directions from potent (likely transatlantic) Nazi enablers; Motto "one never knows when and what purpose for violent useful idiots are needed". Anyway, Reichbürger have been around for a decade or so. What happened today could have happened 5 years ago. And it should. Dumb, violent and armed is always a dangerous combination. However, it is only today when it became worth to expose some of the quinta columna. The German Michel must be remembered now more than ever that he can cuddle behind a "protective" government, which (rightfully) has been called in connection with sanctions and Ukraine aid the “dumbest ever” in a recent parliamentary debate. And Scholz needs a boost away from his weakling reputation.

Posted by: OttoE | Dec 7 2022 22:03 utc | 78

The US government cannot even tell a simple truth, much less enter into a binding agreement. They are not truth capable, therefore they are 100% untrustworthy. Russia top leadership understands this, but some of the Russian military still think that pledges from clowns like Gen. Milley mean anything. Hopefully these fools will be purged from the Russian military after this week.

Posted by: JustTruth | Dec 7 2022 22:03 utc | 79

Doesn't it smell like the Reichstag fire in 1933? Germany at it again? Van der Lubbe was the patsy then.

Posted by: Lennart Mogren | Dec 7 2022 22:13 utc | 80

I have heard rumours that RF was able recover $200B of the $300B+ of the frozen European assets. Is there any truth to this? If so... YRA YRA YRA!!!

Posted by: MG | Dec 7 2022 22:18 utc | 81

>Posted by: OttoE | Dec 7 2022 22:03 utc | 78

I do not blame them for wanting to replace an illegitimate puppet regime that shuts down all real opposition with the term "Volksverhetzung". See: Ernst Zundel, Horst Mahler, German Rudolf, Gerhard Lauck, and hundreds of others, including (most revoltingly) Ursula Haverbeck.

Posted by: ReinhardVonSiegfried | Dec 7 2022 22:19 utc | 82

Outraged | Dec 7 2022 21:53 utc | 75

Unfinished business from WWII, unfinished business from the cold war plus power shift from west to east. A very complex single dimension chess board. Though one that is easily narrowed down to western lunacy.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 7 2022 22:20 utc | 83

Doesn't it smell like the Reichstag fire in 1933? Germany at it again? Van der Lubbe was the patsy then.

Posted by: Lennart Mogren | Dec 7 2022 22:13 utc | 80


The idiocy astounds me. Or is it Perfidy to say Van der Lubbe was a patsy? That dirtbag Communist burned down the Reichstag as it had elected a Fascist to lead it. Lee Harvey Oswald was a Trotskyite who saw JFK as a threat to a peculiar strain of Judeo-Progressivism. LHO was in turn shot by Jacob Rubinstein to tie up the loose ends for M'ssad.

Posted by: Wokechoke | Dec 7 2022 22:28 utc | 84

@ Peter AU1 | Dec 7 2022 22:20 utc | 83

Hm I'd go with western generational psychopathy ... going back at least to the 1600's ... even the BS crusades ...

The obsession with, devout adulation of, even cult like honoring & deep desire to emulate the abhorrent horror that was the Roman Empire(whole, thence western) of Conquest, Slavery & Rapine is at the core of the sickness that infects Western 'Elites', the Vampyres, IMV.

See: State architecture, in tribute/honor of.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 7 2022 22:36 utc | 85

Can anyone recommend a good book about Russia’s history with Ukraine?

Posted by: GoFast | Dec 7 2022 22:44 utc | 86

First, I don't see that piffle State Department comment as "confirmation" of anything.

Second, all this is utterly irrelevant as Crimea will remain Russian from now on, and no amount of US or Ukrainian action will change that. Ukraine is physically incapable of retaking it and neither the US or NATO have the military capability to take it without being bombed into the Stone Age.

I mean, seriously, who gives a rat's ass whether the State Department wants Crimea back? It's not like that means the US neocons are going to stop trying to bleed Russia out.

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Dec 7 2022 17:52 utc | 17

If you look at the Russian MoD reports, they have counted a minimum of 250-300 casualties a day since the start of the war. This is 250-300 killed, not wounded. Add in anywhere from 2 to 4 wounded per killed and the Ukrainians have suffered a minimum of 500 and a maximum of 1200 killed and wounded every day since the war started. This is 20-36,000 dead and wounded per month for the last ten months. That is a minimum of 200,000 and a maximum of 360,000 dead and wounded.

However, the intensity of the combat has increased in the last several months since Ukraine started its fruitless "offensives" at end of August. So the killed and wounded rate is now likely higher than ever. Assuming a loss rate now as a maximum of 1200-1500 per day, that's 36,000-45,000 per month for the last three months or 108,000 to 135,000 just in the last three months.

Of course, all these numbers are spitballs based on historic killed-to-wounded ratios which no one knows for sure which applies to the current conflict. But the estimate some people give of 400,000 or more dead and wounded Ukrainians is not unreasonable. As Martyanov keeps saying, this is modern war which no one has seen in decades, if ever.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 7 2022 22:49 utc | 87

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2022 18:44 utc | 32

my god...who raises these fckin animals.
If that were my son...I,d shoot him myself.
Thanks bevin......... I didnt know about this group

Posted by: c | Dec 7 2022 19:20 utc | 38

"Víctor Orban!! he stood his ground"

Victor Orban recently hadda 3hr meeting with John Mearsheimer
probably true...Victors days are numbered.


Posted by: harryash | Dec 7 2022 22:49 utc | 88

@abrogard / 64

"haven't told a truth since 9/11.."

Since 1607.

Posted by: Alejo | Dec 7 2022 22:55 utc | 89

Ukrainian sources report that the Russians are again massively using the heavy flamethrower system "Solntsepyok" for strikes in the forest belt near the city and the surrounding areas of the city of Bakhmut.

The losses suffered by the Armed Forces of Ukraine due to this factor are enormous. All hospitals in the region are full. With all this, the Office of the Ukrainian President is forcing the Armed Forces of Ukraine to attack the Russians in the opposite direction, which also increases losses.

No one will say the exact number of losses for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but it is somewhere between 200 and 1000 people per day (killed or wounded) , (According to the Western sources it's 500-800 KIA & WIA)
#source (https://t.me/legitimniy/14274)

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/24112

The heavy flamethrower system seems to be working well in relatively crowded spaces. Meanwhile Nato "will train 50000 in the next 2 years".

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 7 2022 23:00 utc | 90

There are currently multiple Russian incremental advances along the frontline.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Dec 7 2022 23:00 utc | 91

America has had so much experience losing wars they are finally getting good at it.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Dec 7 2022 23:05 utc | 92

Posted by: Lennart Mogren | Dec 7 2022 22:13 utc | 80

The German business smells much more like the US Jan 6th "Riots" and "Insurrection" to me. In fact I suspect the same script writer wrote both.

Posted by: Tim | Dec 7 2022 23:11 utc | 93

Outraged | Dec 7 2022 22:36 utc | 85

There is some time honored human tradition going on. Corruption and greed? Nothing like American privatization. The rise and fall of empires and civilizations? But yeah, it does go deeper than the things I listed.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 7 2022 23:13 utc | 94

Gorbachov could not see that the west was playing him and would not honor the NATO non expnsion.

Yeltsin could not see that western "advisers" would loot his country and destroy the standard of living.

Putin could not figure out that Minsk 1,2 were a ruse to prepare for war, when even Merkle says she knew that. (Something similar happened with Stalin actually believing the German Russian peace treaty).

And when they actually woke up, Putin thought that an "SMO" would force the Ukr/West to negotiations.

I think the Russians are too trusting of the west (ie, naive). Or more likely, no one in the ranks below seems to think for themselves and deliver the uncomfortable news to the top.

Posted by: nothing but the trut | Dec 7 2022 23:13 utc | 95

The recent US disclosure that it's HIMARS have been modified such that they can't fire the long range missiles was published just before Ukraine bombed Russian military bases. coincidence? who agrees that this disclosure was made to obviate the risk that Russia would immediately asse HIMARS were used and retalate accordingly?

Posted by: ichael | Dec 7 2022 23:15 utc | 96

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 7 2022 21:15 utc | 65

The electricity price is generally over 300 euros/MWh, Germany is actually the most expensive with over 400 euros/MWh. Price spikes are one thing, but continuous average prices another thing. This will wreck a crap ton of small-medium enterprise businesses all across EU-rope.

The thing people who compare this to WW2 is, they don't really understand that US and EU are getting weaker (tho US is weakening at slower rate at the expense of EU weakening at higher rate), not stronger, and they are in a lot weaker position in every aspect to begin with. The society is full of rot, testosterone in males is very bad and needs to get rid of. EU is shutting down tons of agriculture. Industries are shrinking. US industry is weak, inefficient and incompetent and relies on China to provide most subassemblies and electronics for any kind of weapon. Now US waging war against China, will they continue to provide? Probably not.

In this context it's a good strategy to let Nato come to you instead of you going to them, as currently witnessed in Bakhmut. Just smash all their artillery radars, howitzers, APCs, manpower in the front and rear lines, smash electric substations with cheap drones. Make periodical SEAD cleansing operations in the rear. Observe as Nato tries to install new electrical equipment, and repeat.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 7 2022 23:16 utc | 97

If the weather freezes so hard in ukraine for months at a time…
Then surely heat sources become more observable.
My point is…just to create water to drink…tea/coffe etc…
generates a heat signal.
Wat do they do…filter their own piss?
Keeping engines running…etc….basically betrays your position.
Replacement soldiers…etc…how do they get to “the front”.
Seems to me…all the russians have to do is observe…locate…
until the numbers/weapons are high enough to send a shell.
Are there still idiots volunteering in Lvov to “eat the russians”
I heard Blackrock had “bought” Ukraine…and then
I also heard Blackrock was bankrupt
The oligarchs do not waste money…so....
as they have access to all satellite info...
Plus as I suspect a Gladio style team still in place in russia
and info on weapon supply etc….
they already know the future and where the most money is likely to be spent/wasted.
Meanwhile just keep the peasants reading/watching the bs and they can continue looting.
The russians have access to the serious figures of the financial system and so therefore in theory can identify surges of money exchange into “odd accounts”
This maybe why nobody appears to be damaging the space facilities/satellites etc......And undersea cables.

Curious eh?

Posted by: harryash | Dec 7 2022 23:21 utc | 98

Things which could be related to the "historic counter-terrorist operation", the huguest in German´s history, involving some 1300 policemen on orders of the general prosecutor, which they curiously refused to unleash on what has meant not only the huguest meance against German security buy also the ruin of European industry and population for the decades to come, the sabotage of NS pipelines.

It seems that a lesson had to be given to the increasing critic voices in Europe asking fro accountability for the disastrous state of affairs.

Two minutes of bitter truth in the European Parliament...it has to be a member of the ECR Group who did it...not a liberal, not a progresist....

https://youtu.be/eHRwl6gdnj4

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 7 2022 23:21 utc | 99

John Helmer on power plays:

http://johnhelmer.net/general-patience-and-the-pause-that-refreshes/

By NATO medevac and hospital standards, the NATO manuals say that a “mass casualty event” amounts to about 20 casualties per day. The Ukrainian army rate is currently ten times that number. NATO veterans point out that in the present situation in the east, following the line from Sumy through Poltava to Dniepropetrovsk, Nikolaev and Odessa... the daily medevac rate may be more than 200, while the electric war raids are simultaneously cutting off the power and transport. “How can you stabilize the wounded in these areas? What means of transportation will they be put on, and where will they be sent to, with fuel and electricity in short supply and the transportation network smashed or under Russian fire?”

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 7 2022 23:25 utc | 100

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