Grunzt @90
For what it’s worth … how can Russia finally win without provoking a nuclear exchange???
My take on US reaction is that the further west Russia goes, the more hysterical the US will get.
The more territory that Russia takes, the easier it will be for the US to blow stuff up behind Russian lines.
Pick a defensible line that includes only territory where the civilians are 80% or more on the side of Russia, dig in, stalemate the kinetic part of the war, and take out whatever forces the US moves to the front lines.
Then, as reported here, keep Lavrov and associates in the news throughout the ROW.
Months of no action on the military front will cause boredom about the situation in the US, and allow Russia to highlight its Lavrov vs Blinken mismatch in the places of interest to Russia.
Win the economic war, win the diplomatic war, and run out the clock in the kinetic war.
Essentially do what Russia has been doing. Compared to what I was expecting when this started – I never thought that Russia would be so decisively winning the diplomatic and economic parts of the war. And the kinetic war is highlighted by the fact that the US has outspent Russia so far in this war, only to lose 15-20% of Ukraine.

Posted by: Woke American | Dec 4 2022 22:11 utc | 104

Posted by: Ed | Dec 4 2022 21:54 utc | 101

…
The world is bigger than just the western MSM. The EU, the US, and the five eyes, still do not constitute the majority of the world’s population.

Sure. But who is fighting Russia – the West or the rest of the world?

Posted by: robin | Dec 4 2022 22:15 utc | 106

I wonder if there is a correlation between people who believe that the US/EU media is some sort of neutral reporting operation that would totally report what Lavrov says, if only he was spicier (like Maria Zachorova?) or came up with convincing stories, with those people who think that US elections are democratic and honest and demonstrate the will of the people, so the president is completely constrained by popular opinion.
The Mighty Wurlitzer of propaganda (h/t Frank Wisner) is not actually a device for reporting news, it is a propaganda machine engaged in manufacturing consent for the Empire.
US elections are rigged at all points, from ballot access, to news coverage, to debates, to voting, to announcing the vote counts.
None of it is democratic or reliable. And the president and Congress could not care less about what the American people want. They reliably obey their owners instead.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 4 2022 22:18 utc | 108

https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/ukraine-population
Ukrainian nationalism is bull sh*t. Yes, they hate Russia, blah, blah, blah. But here’s the thing:
They are a dying nation with far more deaths than births (before the war). They Aren’t Making Babies who can become soldiers and this is a solid long term trend. Their people tend to run away and leave the elderly behind (who aren’t going to birth new Ukrainians)
Anyone who sacrifices their life for this increasingly sterile mess is a fool.

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 4 2022 22:32 utc | 110

Sure. But who is fighting Russia – the West or the rest of the world?
Posted by: robin | Dec 4 2022 22:15 utc | 106
The West of course but isn’t that just the point. Most of the non-West world does not want anything to do with the US proxy war in Ukraine. They know that the US and its NATO lackeys are on the way out, and that will open new possibilities for a multi-polar world system, thanks in large part to FM Lavrov’s diplomacy.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 4 2022 22:41 utc | 112

If we assume…with the help of General Winter a total capitulation of Ukraine…possibly by encircling Kiev and |Dniepro and essentially starving/freezing the occupants where they vote with their feet and either can join Russia or their families in the west ukraine…
Then a de facto occupation would occur and Lvov would be included and submit to Russian control.
The various provinces would be controlled totally by Russia but would be allowed to continue as before
Providing they don’t create insurgent groups and an underground resistance.
The above could all be organized and agreed at a proper meeting at an international level and applied robustly.
The alternative is Russian missiles on all the borders with 100km dmz zones and Lvov bulldozed.
Take your pick.
The nuclear blah blah has already been shown as false teeth and those that keep blathering on about it are delusional.

Posted by: harryash | Dec 4 2022 22:50 utc | 114

@David Levin 22
It has nothing to do with knowledge or persuasiveness, but rather as I observed in ibid. (as Meshed Gears) (2021-07-21). Media in the USA. GreanvillePost

it’s not that people are dumb; intelligence has little to do with it. Some of the most intelligent people on earth promote the same deluded worldviews as everyone else. The problem isn’t intellect, it’s manipulation, and anyone can be manipulated no matter how smart they are.
This mass-scale manipulation is the result of wealthy people buying up narrative influence in the form of media, political influence, think tanks, lobbying, etc, in conjunction with the mass-scale manipulations of the powerful government agencies which are allied with them.
The powerful work to manipulate the way the general public thinks, acts and votes to ensure that they remain in power. They pay special attention to who the most influential people in our society are, which is why the most prominent voices are so often the most delusional.
There are filters in place designed to keep anyone from rising to positions of influence if they don’t support the consensus worldview promoted by the oligarchic empire, and once they do rise to influence they are actively herded into echo chambers which reinforce that worldview.

PS Also, as noted above, “Never refer to it as the ‘Mainstream media’ because we the public are the mainstream, and the fact that the media exists to propagandize us is not grounds to grant them an appellation they have not earned and do not deserve.”

Posted by: Hermit | Dec 4 2022 22:56 utc | 116

The Mighty Wurlitzer of propaganda (h/t Frank Wisner) is not actually a device for reporting news, it is a propaganda machine engaged in manufacturing consent for the Empire.
US elections are rigged at all points, from ballot access, to news coverage, to debates, to voting, to announcing the vote counts.
None of it is democratic or reliable. And the president and Congress could not care less about what the American people want. They reliably obey their owners instead.
Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 4 2022 22:18 utc | 108
In capitalist “democracy” elections are not an instrument for determining the will of the “people,” but as a means to determine and detect trouble for their class dictatorship. Any up-and-coming challenges to their rule will be detected as an infantile political movement long before it could present a real threat to the existing system.
The state will then have plenty of time to infiltrate the “movement” and misdirect it, destroy leadership in the media and the press, and /or otherwise neutralize its leadership.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 4 2022 23:01 utc | 118

I was watching a music video today by Ivan Dorn (whose music I enjoy), who sings in Russian, who I’m sure speaks Russian with his mother, but is Ukrainian and supports the Ukraine war effort.
I’m reminded of many of my relatives who fought for the Confederacy (the South) in the US Civil War. I recently visited the grave of the brother of my grandfather’s grandfather, who had the misfortune of being in the way of a cannon ball in the Battle of Nashville.
The war in Ukraine seems to be a civil war between Ukrainian patriots who believe their country should be independent and part of Europe and those in Ukraine who want to be part of the Russian world.
Just as the supporters of the South thought they were fighting for their right to be free of the dictates of the North, many supporters of Ukraine believe they should be free to join the West. However, just as the supporters of the South were manipulated by those who benefited from slavery, the supporters of Ukraine are manipulated by those who seek to weaken Russia (i.e. the neocons in the US).
It’s an imperfect analogy, since history doesn’t repeat but does rhyme, but it’s a reasonable analogy.
But even though Ukraine’s battle with Russia is a lost cause, just as the Confederacy was a lost cause, we should respect their warriors as patriots, however misguided, and the monuments that should be erected to their defeat should always be respected, as Civil War monuments are always respected in the South.

Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Dec 4 2022 23:15 utc | 120

People wanting Russia to take all of Ukraine are morons, with no concern for Russia other than this immediate war and MISSILES ! MISSILES ! Put mIsSIlEs in Poland !!!!1! . Russia doesn’t have a cheat code of endless money, who do you think would have to pay pension of all those people ? Who would have to deal with the criminality that poverty generates ? who would have to waste millions fixing the problems of areas that have nothing to give to Russia and populated by people that dislike her ? the resources that eastern/southern Ukraine have should go to them + Russia, the money Russia would spend fixing the mess in western Ukraine should go to reinsdustrializing the east instead. Would be better simple to declare the rump state a neutral demilitarized zone and keep an eye on it for any sources of trouble. The only use I can see for western Ukraine would be to first depopulate it and then make of it a huge farm.

Posted by: Phariah | Dec 4 2022 23:20 utc | 122

Posted by: Mesoscale | Dec 4 2022 19:25 utc | 67
I submit my own Substack account of the situation from back in April… Been thinking of doing an update but haven’t gotten to it yet.
UKRAINE – EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW – BUT DIDN’T DARE ASK
Wherein I explore what is known about the Ukraine conflict and what you should do about it…
https://richardstevenhack.substack.com/p/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 4 2022 23:30 utc | 124

Posted by: grunzt | Dec 4 2022 21:14 utc | 90
“By no means can Putin absorb the whole of Ukraine, given its hostile population in the western part.
People continually make assertions of this sort without the slightest show of evidence or consideration for the possibilities of mitigating such issues.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 4 2022 23:37 utc | 126

But even though Ukraine’s battle with Russia is a lost cause, just as the Confederacy was a lost cause, we should respect their warriors as patriots, however misguided, and the monuments that should be erected to their defeat should always be respected, as Civil War monuments are always respected in the South.
Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Dec 4 2022 23:15 utc | 120
1) Should we respect the Nazis in Ukraine?
2) Do you consider the Nazis who died in WW2 “patriots,” however “misguided.”
3) Was the Confederate struggle to preserve slavery a righteous effort that is owed some form of respect?
If you were a slave in a Southern slave state, would you respect the Confederate cause, no matter how “misguided.”
If you were a Russian speaking person living in the Donbass, would you respect the Nazis who lobbed missiles at your family and loved ones for eight years. Remembering that these Nazis bastards came to power through a coup supported and financed by the US and the EU.
Before 2014, did Russia ever try to invade Ukraine? Did the US overthrow an elected government in Ukraine? The Devil is in the detail my friend, and you do not know the details. Not about Ukraine, and not even about the US Civil War. What you have, in my humble opinion, is a romantic view of such things.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 4 2022 23:44 utc | 128

I wish more commenters would talk about the vast amount of money spend by America for the war in Ukraine. The 50 billion dollars spent could have been used to improve healthcare problems, for free education, and student debt

Posted by: MTLPeacelover | Dec 4 2022 23:49 utc | 130

@ MTLPeacelover | Dec 4 2022 23:49 utc | 130
the money is for the military complex, wall st and the energy complex… it is paying off on all accounts… people who talk about the war who neglect to acknowledge who is actually winning here, miss this.. the 3 friends – military, banking and energy complex all winning – hands down… the media will not tell anyone this as they are working for the same 3… that is the sad truth here..

Posted by: james | Dec 4 2022 23:52 utc | 132

Posted by: Orwellian Language | Dec 4 2022 19:14 utc | 64

I’m no genius and know absolutely nothing about military planning. Surely even the layman can see Ukraine is very exposed from an attack in the North.
In world war 2 the Germans would have done it already and cut Ukraine in two from the North. Isolating the main Ukrainian forces in the East that now have to be reinforced on a daily basis.

Ja, ja, mein Obersturmführer, except these are our (their) people, our (their) brothers and sisters, so fuck you !

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Dec 4 2022 23:56 utc | 134

Sarlat La Canède…134
bit heated there Sarlat….with that name possibly french?
Germans comin round the corner…lol

Posted by: harryash | Dec 5 2022 0:02 utc | 136

As is generally the case Gilbert Doctorow, in St Petersburg/Petrograd, has interesting news:
“..there is (in Tsarkoy Selo) a military hospital of national importance. It is from the latter that today’s news comes.
“My acquaintance tells me that the hospital is now filled with wounded Russian soldiers from the Ukraine campaign, and in particular with maimed POWs who were released by the Ukrainian authorities in prisoner exchanges. The hospitalized include a good many traumatized soldiers who were savagely castrated or otherwise disabled by their Ukrainian captors.
“If publicized, these cases would be far more inflammatory in broad Russian society than the horrendous video which circulated in social media a week ago showing the brutal execution of a dozen disarmed Russian POWs by jubilant Ukrainian soldiers. Clearly, the Kremlin is holding this back, lest detailed knowledge of the Ukrainian brutality unleash violent emotions in the Russian public.
“In these circumstances, I call attention to the very difficult balancing act required of the Russian President. The man has nerves of steel. He is surely under great pressure from the patriotic hard-liners in the Kremlin who are au courant about the castrations and other evidence of Ukrainian depravity. One nod from Vladimir Vladimirovich and Kiev would be leveled to the ground in a matter of hours. It is tragic that Washington and Brussels confuse this restraint with incompetence, fear and other nonsense…”
https://gilbertdoctorow.com/
The treatment of Russian POWs by Ukrainian forces is no secret. It is entirely attributable to the complicity of powerful war criminals, such as Boris Johnson, Justin Trudeau etc. A single word from Washington or Brussels would suffice to bring these fascist terrorists back under control.
There are going to be war crime tribunals and these guilty parties are going to be delivered up to them by new governments in countries disgusted to have been parties to the castration and torture of Prisoners. Some might find this hard to understand, decent people will not.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 5 2022 0:06 utc | 138

https://richardstevenhack.substack.com/p/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know
@ Richard Steven Hack | Dec 4 2022 23:30 utc | 124
Thanks for this comprehensive rundown, and for your invaluable contributions here at MoA.
This is a good, informative thread, btw. If b’s doing something to cut the crap, it’s working.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 5 2022 0:17 utc | 140

..If that had been invested in stem cell research we might be able to regrow or fix anything on the human body.” NOT SO!! The 1939(!!) UK Cancer Act, applied throughout the Western world even today.. PROHIBITS the publication of ANY cancer cure, that making it illegal for a doc. to (or me in UK), to mention such. US Dr Ron. Good in the 1980s developed thwe natural CURE for pancreatic cancer. He was REFUSED publication in all Med Journals. Good was the leader in immunology with the 1st bone marrow transplant and 2000 papers published.
Cures? Russian/Canadian Biologist Dr. H R Clark, PhD ND’s protocols, based on over 1/2 million reproducible bio-resonance tests that identified the causes and pathways of all cancers. Electronic Zappers of Drs.Clark, Beck and Rife. Hoxey’s herbs.. (“the quack who cured cancer”. He was arrested over 100 times, more times than any other medical practitioner, but his Texan prosecutor subsequently became his attorney after Hoxey cured his brother of cancer)! Germany’s ozone, (that cured Pres. Reagan’s lung cancer). Dr. Burzynsksi’s formula in Texas. Essiac (that cured Sen. Ted Kennedy’s son’s ‘incurable’ bone cancer). Actor Jason Winters’ 3 herb tea (that cured his massive, incurable jaw cancer). Sunderlandia. Curcumin. Cannabis oil. Black elderberry. Vitamin D3, (8000iu/D), Vit C, (10gms/D, prevents ALL gut cancers), Bosnian Pyramid Tunnels measured healing energy.

Posted by: Thomas Turk | Dec 5 2022 0:32 utc | 142

Or must we meet all Europe banded?
Have we forgot to conquer yet?
Or rather, shall they not, from Perm to Tauris’ fountains,’
From the hot Colchian steppes, to Finland’s icy mountains,
From the grey, half-shatter’d wall,
To fair Kathay, in dotage buried
A steely rampart, close and serried,
Rise, Russia’s warriors, one and all?
Then send your numbers without number,
Your madden’d sons, your goaded slaves,
In Russia’s plains there’s room to slumber,
And well they’ll know their brethren’s graves!

Alexander Pushkin, 1831.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 5 2022 0:45 utc | 144

At least we know Russia has enough ammunition
headline
“U.S. intel chief says Russia is using up ammunition in Ukraine faster than it can replace it”
. . . US intel has never been right.
Pat Lang who should know has commented, quote:
Well, pilgrims, we got it right here. The problem with the big intel agencies; CIA, NSA, DIA, etc. is that they are “mature bureaucracies” filled with careerist place seekers who have no real talent for analysis and merely seek security in IC wide groupthink. The agencies themselves are fiefdoms in which the senior bureaucrats are “swords around the throne,” who see themselves as protectors of the agency head against “dangerous” analysts who wish to challenge IC wide consensus. I wrote about thus many years ago in an essay entitled “Artists vs Bureaucrats” which will appear again in my new book “The Portable Pat Lang.” . . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 5 2022 0:48 utc | 146

…about the castrations and other evidence of Ukrainian depravity.
Posted by: bevin | Dec 5 2022 0:06 utc | 138
—
The pathological fixation on castration of male genitals is somehow reminiscent of the Meiwes case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes

Posted by: Nobody | Dec 5 2022 0:50 utc | 148

@ Peter AU1 | Dec 5 2022 0:35 utc | 143
If using Firefox there is a plugin that skips verification/age check. Same for Twatter login or age check via browser, etc.
Give ’em as little as possible re personalized or ‘big data’ … ‘browse’ on a 10 year old dedicated laptop, ‘everything’ else using a newer laptop for anything personal/identifying, use it to secure remote the old ‘browser’ laptop. No linkage/association, everything locked down, etc. YMMV

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 5 2022 1:00 utc | 150

The war in Ukraine seems to be a civil war between Ukrainian patriots who believe their country should be independent and part of Europe and those in Ukraine who want to be part of the Russian world.

No. Just No.
[It takes my blood pressure enter dangerous levels when USA citizens (as well meaning as they may be…. can only comprehend world events when filtered through a USlens)
The cynically evil Russia | Ukraine conflict is a U$ concocted war 10-25-50 years in the making.
Ukrainians and Russians were living harmoniously either side of an arbitrary border no one gave a fuck about until March 2014 when the U$ violently overthrew the elected President… . Yanukovych (the night of the coop special forces were hunting him to assassinate. Putin sent a helicopter to rescue. Documentary “Crimea: The Long Way Home” covers this night in detail… including an interview with Putin of why he acted. Well worth watching.)
Russia was accepting that Ukraine would join the EU. They had made a counter offer to Yanukovych, and then offered an option where Ukraine could be in the EU and still have a special trading relationship with Russia.
Yanukovych was returning having signed exactly what the EU wanted, when the U$ decided to kill him anyway.
The eastern part of Ukraine, who’d voted for and supported Yanukovych [as they did Zelensky] protested at the violent change in government in Kiev.
Poroshenko sent the Ukrainian army (mostly from western Ukraine) to kill Ukrainian citizens.
These Ukrainian citizens were Russian-speaking Russians culturally, but had until then been Ukrainian.
A violent deadly military action was taken by the U$ installed Ukrainian government against its Ukrainian (Russian speaking) citizens.
The Nazis within the Ukrainian government… the Right Sector, Sloboda, Azov, installed themselves in Mariupol and along the Line of Contact, terrorising all… people who considered themselves Ukrainian, and the Donbas republics.
The Donbas republics declared their independence and sought to join Russia (as Crimea had successfully done).
Putin wanted the republics to stay within Ukraine as autonomous regions…. Hence his Minsk 1 and Minsk2 agreements. Both Germany and France were the guarantors of Minsk… the agreement called for the Ukrainian army to retreat from the Line of Contact and allow a referendum and elections… self determination for the republics.
As Poroshenko has now admitted, Minsk was never intended to be implemented … it just bought NATO time to arm and train the Ukrainian military to wage an extermination of the people of eastern Ukraine.
Putin and Russia got vacuumed into this conflict (exactly as the U$ intended) because the people of eastern Ukraine are Russians.
Watching fellow Russians… family.. literally in the majority.. be slaughtered by the Kiev government had Russians in Russia apply political pressure to Putin.
(As the U$i intended)
Putin does have to be aware and responsive to the Russian domestic political climate. He’s not the Dictator the west says. …. He’s been in power 22 years because he adroitly surfs the tides of Russian thinking..
So no. Just no. It’s not a “civil war like the US Civil War”.
The Russian | Ukraine conflict has been deliberately fermented by ideologues in the U$, starting even as far back as the 1950s.
The US has been funding and driving the anti-Russian fever in Ukraine.
Of course, there’s been some ready to support this anti-Russia fervour.
But those who are neutral, ambivalent, slightly favourable to Russia or pro-Russian have been ruthless silenced, terrorised and killed.
If you absolutely must have some US analogy…. Russia is the cavalry of Good Guys, the White Hats to the rescue.
They’ve come to save their fellow Russians, and at one time hoped to be able to save all of Ukraine from itself.
Now? When an alcoholic insists on the bottle or the junkie the needle… eventually you leave them to the gutter.
Ukraine has made its choice… its addicted to USD and this won’t end until Ukraine is totally broken.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 5 2022 1:08 utc | 152

Peter AU1 | Dec 5 2022 0:04 utc | 137
Avostal…”Kadyrov’s deleted five big fishes.”
Did we ever learn who?
Re censored YT sometimes bitchute has it.
There’s also a site called catbox not sure how to access.
I only encounter it as a link.
It’s *very* not censored. Like the guy being de-skulled with a sledgehammer.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 5 2022 1:19 utc | 154

Somewhat tight discipline within Wagner. I guess going over to the enemy is not a good thing. They snatched him out of Kiev.
Just downloaded the age verification firefox plugin re Outraged. Magic. I think this was linked here at MoA not long ago and I saved it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yvMu5HNU1A

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 5 2022 1:32 utc | 156

I think US Sec of State was only half honest – Objective of US is to weaken Russia and turn a nice profit (jump start economy).
I wonder if Europe will be allowed to manufacture own weapons.
It seems that in WW1, US waited three years to enter war – once others were fairly beat up. Russia needs to keep war at a level which will not damage or will boost their economy – anticipating long war. Or is it better to draw US in now?

Posted by: jared | Dec 5 2022 1:40 utc | 158

that is the sad truth here.
Posted by: james | Dec 4 2022 23:52 utc | 132
—
Serious question: why sad? Are you dismayed by the savage, night & day struggle for survival on the serengeti?
Or, are you one of those that *believe* we can “rise above” our primitive instincts? I know there’s a few here; hoping the new order ushers in an era of enlightenment, peace and understanding.
Lulz
I guess no one explained what the global war is all about: competition over scarce resources.
And who has the last great stores? And who happens to be so wildly financially over extended that they had no choice but to attempt a last ditch effort at seizing the precious non renewables that keep humans out of the mud?
Oh yes, the fun and games are only getting started.

Posted by: B9k9 | Dec 5 2022 1:42 utc | 160

There are going to be war crime tribunals and these guilty parties are going to be delivered up to them by new governments
Posted by: bevin | Dec 5 2022 0:06 utc | 138
—
I agree. When the situation finally snaps, the forces unleashed will be one for the history books.
The problem with living through history is that it seems to take forever. But in retrospect, the combination of russias military, economic, resource and cultural advantages will have everyone saying afterward, “duh, it was so obvious it (the collapse of the dollar system) was going to happen.”

Posted by: B9k9 | Dec 5 2022 1:52 utc | 162

jared | Dec 5 2022 1:40 utc | 158
Two elements of the US mindset. They came out of WWII with 75% of the wolds wealth. They were the sole superpower at the end of the cold war. US exceptionalism derives from this. Like the nazi’s they look at others as sub humans, there to be used and abused. Obama’s address to the nation telling Americans they were the exceptional people – no different to Hitler and nazi Germany. Putin warned that this is dangerous.
The combined “west” is now the Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan of WWII. We will go out in the same way. Total destruction.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 5 2022 2:04 utc | 164

The intel “failure” was noted by myself and others as it was quite obvious by the end of March.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 5 2022 1:01 utc | 151
—
Aye carumba, for a fellow yank, how is it possible that you consistently misjudge the very pragmatic and logical decisions made by US policy makers?
I’m starting to think that all the dreamers and do gooders here never, ever took the time – or gained the experience – in actually participating in the USA financing game.
If they had, they’d know it was all over back in 2009. The only possible chance at keeping the game alive was to seize the globes last great stores of natural resources.
Even better, with only 150m occupying 1/6 of the earth’s landmass, Russia could have been culturally enriched to the tune of potentionally 1b moved from mena to create the world’s greatest development project. (1000x the current Ireland play.)
Serious question: does it make you feel better thinking you’ve got something figured out, while assuming everyone else is confused and clueless?
My suggestion is get out a bit more. You might be surprised just how non chalant a significant number of pragmatic realists are about this particular situation.

Posted by: B9k9 | Dec 5 2022 2:10 utc | 166

outraged @167
“Yes, the hard truth is, whether we like or admit it not, we are virtually all now ‘Good little Germans’ … amongst the ‘Golden Billion’, in the West. :(”
amen.

Posted by: polarbear4 | Dec 5 2022 2:21 utc | 168

@ james | Dec 5 2022 2:22 utc | 169
Quite. Seconded.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 5 2022 2:24 utc | 170

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 5 2022 0:35 utc | 143
Peter, what is happening to American history, and I am sure EU history as well, is nothing short of Orwell’s 1984: Hide it, revise it, and forget it.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 5 2022 2:34 utc | 172

I think US Sec of State was only half honest – Objective of US is to weaken Russia and turn a nice profit (jump start economy).
I wonder if Europe will be allowed to manufacture own weapons.
It seems that in WW1, US waited three years to enter war – once others were fairly beat up. Russia needs to keep war at a level which will not damage or will boost their economy – anticipating long war. Or is it better to draw US in now?
Putin should accept Bidens offer to sit for negotiation of peace, on the precondition that the US would agree to return Texas and California to Mexico.

Posted by: jared | Dec 5 2022 3:08 utc | 174

@Outrage +
Yep. “We” are nazi enablers. Some (many here and some elsewhere) are trying…. but I know my ~network wilfully place hands over ears, shut eyes… choose to know nothing…
>>>>>~…
@ Vintage. Gonna steal your “corporate media”.
So elegant. Corporate media being owned by 6, or is it now 4 mega-| global corporations.
It allows an expansion into whose interests corporate media serve = mega corporates.
And. How and why media in as disparate countries all cover the same material in the same way…. Not because “it must be true if *everyone* is reporting it”……
A choir singing in tune doesn’t mean there’s no other music, or even no other way to sing/interpret that piece.
But the *corporate* (thx) choir drown out all others.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 5 2022 3:31 utc | 176

It is reported on INTEL SLAVA Z that the Ukrainian government is advising people that in the absence of functional sewer and water systems, they should dig holes to bury their poop in. People who live in high rise apartment buildings without power will not be eager to carry their chamber pots downstairs. Once the ground freezes, they will not be able to dig holes. People will start dumping their shit and piss out their windows. This will last for only a short while before people are motivated to run away to Western Europe. A properly timed Russian invasion from Belorussia to the West of Kiev will trigger a stampede.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Dec 5 2022 3:43 utc | 178

Melaleuca | Dec 5 2022 3:31 utc | 176
AP, Reuters, AFP.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 5 2022 3:59 utc | 180

re: G7 $60/barrel oil
Grab the popcorn, as b would say.
from Global Times

The global oil price will likely top $100 amid the price limit, TASS reported in a separate report on Saturday, citing Kirill Melnikov, head of the Russian Energy Development Center.
“The cap level is irrelevant by itself, because Russian companies will not sell oil under it anyway. Accordingly, supplies of Russian oil via European shipping and insurance companies will be interrupted, which may reduce Russia’s export by 1-1.5 million barrels per day in December and January. This will likely lead to a price hike above $100 per barrel,” he said. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 5 2022 4:12 utc | 182

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ #Chronicle of the Special Military Operation for 3-4 Dec 2022⚡️
♦️#Russia’s Border Areas:
▪️ Ukrainian militants shelled the village of #Tishanka and the village of #Krasnoye in the #Belgorod region, damaging residential buildings, gas and electricity supply lines. There were no casualties or injuries.
▪️ Enemy militants struck the village of #Guevo and the hamlet of #Kucherovo, #Kursk region, with no civilian casualties.
♦️#Starobelsk Direction:
▪️ In the #Lyman area, Ukrainian units launched an offensive towards #Ploshchanka. Russian forces repulsed the enemy attack, forcing them to retreat with losses of personnel and equipment.
▪️ At the same time, the AFU advanced towards #Chervonopopovka. Russian units counterattacked and pushed the Ukrainian formations back to their initial positions.
▪️ Artillery duels continue along the entire line of contact. The RF Armed Forces hit enemy concentrations in #Ternovaya, #Berestovoye, #Vishnevoye and #Tabaevka.
♦️#Slavyansk Direction:
▪️ On Saturday, Russian missile forces and artillery struck the Starokramatorsk machine-building plant in #Kramatorsk. A fire broke out at the facility.
♦️#Soldar Direction:
▪️ In the #Bakhmuts (#Artemovsk) sector, fighting continues near #Opytnoye. The RF Armed Forces have surrounded a group of Georgian mercenaries and eliminated at least five men.
▪️ The Ukrainian command is redeploying additional units to the area to compensate for the losses incurred. In the area of Chasova Yar, the enemy is strengthening its defensive lines.
♦️#Lugansk People’s Republic:
▪️ Ukrainian militants fired HIMARS missiles at populated areas of the LPR. On Saturday, residential modules oof the State Budgetary Institution ‘Dorinvest’ in #Novochervonoye were hit. On Sunday, a technical school and a student hostel in #Alchevsk were damaged. Two people were injured.
♦️#Donetsk Direction:
▪️ Motorised rifle units of the RF Armed Forces continue fighting in the centre of #Maryinka. Both sides are exchanging artillery strikes.
▪️ Enemy militants shelled civilian targets in #Donetsk, #Gorlovka, #Yasynuvata, #Mineralnoye, #Makeyevka and other towns and villages of the agglomeration with barrel and rocket artillery.
♦️#Zaporozhye Direction:
▪️ Russian forces hit concentrations of AFU personnel and armoured vehicles in #Orekhov, #Malinovka, #Chervonoye and #Gulyaypolskoye.
▪️ Ukrainian militants shelled residential buildings in #Mikhailovka, civilians were not injured.

https://t.me/sitreports/1625

Posted by: Down South | Dec 5 2022 4:26 utc | 184

Intel Slava Z (Public(no account) access URL, no need for TG or app)
🇷🇺🇺🇦 The lack of equipment was added to the losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Bakhmut: the main thing
Due to the temperature drop in the Bakhmut district, the problem with spare parts and rubber for foreign equipment has worsened for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which the Military Chronicle reported earlier. During the day, impassable mud is replaced by severe frosts, which makes it difficult to use wheeled armored vehicles MaxxPro, Bushmaster, Sisu and Kirpi.
For the delivery of ammunition, medicines and food to the garrison of the city, the Ground Forces of Ukraine use Soviet armored personnel carriers MT-LB, removed from storage in the Dnepropetrovsk and Kharkov regions.
The advanced units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are forced to get to the line of clashes in civilian vehicles, which is why both regular formations and territorial defense brigades suffer heavy losses.
From November 30 to December 4, the shortage of armored vehicles caused high losses in the 109th and 241st Territorial Defense Brigades in the southeast in the area of ​​Opytny, the Kastus Kalinouski Regiment of Belarusian Nationalists, and the 71st Jaeger Brigade. The situation in the Azov National Battalion (the organization was recognized as a terrorist organization) is especially difficult: among others, the deputy commander of the company, Anton Radko, was seriously wounded. When trying to get out of the shelling on the southeastern outskirts of Bakhmut, five Georgian mercenaries from the “Foreign Legion” of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were killed.
The highest percentage of losses in these units was recorded as a result of the use of Kornet and Konkurs ATGMs by Wagner PMC units, as well as T-80BV tanks supported by D-20 and Giacint-B guns.

Comment: the problem with spare parts and rubber for foreign equipment … makes it difficult to use wheeled armored vehicles MaxxPro, Bushmaster, Sisu and Kirpi.
These misc wheeled APCs were designed for different & quite specific climates & battlefield conditions than Winter in Ukraine/Russia. The lubricants/rubber seals & mounts, even the tires, were not designed nor meant for these conditions. Furthermore when they went through design testing and acceptance at the equivalent of the Aberdeen Proving Grounds, they were NOT tested or assessed re Ukraine/Russia winter conditions.
Just as Wermacht equipment designed for war in central Europe, Heer rifles jammed, lubricants froze, AFVs & Tanks had to have a small fire kept going under the engine loc, or no startup, engine frozen … on the approach to Moscow ’41, from late Oct.
All the misc junk vehicles, APCs, AFVs, IFVs, are serially reported as NOT coming with spares, & certainly not the Shit-ton of spares required for sustained combat ops. Wheeled vehicles don’t have spare rims or the unique tires required, as available spares. Tracked junk, no spare track. Oops. Simple shell fragments, a flat tire or broken track results in, abandonment.
MT-LB is an ancient 1st gen Soviet APC designed in the ’50’s. Secondary usage as a tracked ammo carrier/tractor/artillery tractor/battlefield ambulance, analogous similar vintage concept to M113. AFU must be cannibalizing multiple reserve war stocks MT-LBs for each one they can get running. Desperate times.
AFU are forced to get to the ‘Line of Contact’ in civilian vehicles
‘Cause thousands upon thousands of IFVs & APCs(wheeled & tracked) were destroyed long ago …
T-80BV is an equipment signature indicator of a likely first Line RF unit or at least elements, especially if actually ‘specifically’ T-80BVD or T-80BVMs, not the second line BTGs & 2nd line arms/equipment used since start SMO. Likely indicator of one of the now additional reinforced 300 BTGs, 25 Divisions or 6 Armies that were the result of the ~300,000+ refreshed, called up, active reservists, entering the fray.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 5 2022 4:44 utc | 186

I have zero military experience but I have a question. Why are so many people waiting for the ground to freeze in January in anticipation of a big operational move? The ground is also solid (usually) in August yet I don’t remember a similar anticipation in June. Is cold better than hot for the movement of troops and equipment?

Posted by: Michael Emmons | Dec 5 2022 4:49 utc | 188

Issue: Western Mercenaries do not understand the difference between COIN and LSCO as war strategy.
Mercenaries try to recreate their “youthful glory-days” as a NATO soldier who participated in warfare in Iraq and / or Afghanistan having no understanding of the fundamental differences in the fight between Ukraine and Russia and its background and history. Joining as a Western mercenary in this war (against Russia) is reckless, stupid, and morally reprehensible. Counter-Insurgency Warfare is very different to Large Scale Combat Operations (LSCO). LSCO is waged between large armies over a wide front with divisions as the main fighting elements using indirect fires to create freedom of maneuver for its forces. It is all about attrition and economy of force at the end of the fight.
Western Mercenaries do not understand Large Scale Combat Operations and do not understand Russia’s capabilities on the modern battlefield which is why the mercenaries are either dying or fleeing the battlefield.

Posted by: Frankie-131 | Dec 5 2022 4:54 utc | 190

@ Posted by: jared | Dec 5 2022 3:08 utc | 174
Second time I have to remind those negligent in history that the US PAID Mexico over $28 Million after their wars for the territory taken, which includes the Gadsden Purchase, which set the still valid border between the two countries. Mexico has NEVER stated a claim for those areas (over 180 years) after the treaties. All statements like yours are absolute wet dreams of the illiterate left.
Will EU be allowed to make their own weapons? I dunno, ask these guys:
https://www.nammo.com/
https://www.nexter-group.fr/en
https://www.baesystems.com/en/home
US delay in WWI was caused by a large popular sentiment that didn’t want involvement in any European wars. This is because a very large portion of the population had left Europe because of wars and religious persecution.
While many here this the US MIC runs the economy, in truth it is maybe 20% of the economy overall. At the current US spend rate for Ukraine, it will always be a losing venture money wise for the US, good economy or not.

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Dec 5 2022 4:59 utc | 192

“i think don is being sarcastic.. it was quite funny if read that way..”
Posted by: james | Dec 4 2022 17:15 utc | 24
I don’t think so, james. See: Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 4 2022 17:46 utc | 33
I join with those who take the comment seriously and object – Lavrov is a stellar foreign minister. You don’t win by lowering yourself to the level of others to be heard on the diplomatic front; you set the example they should be following but don’t or can’t. Then, the question becomes, why can’t they?

Posted by: juliania | Dec 5 2022 5:02 utc | 194

@ Melaleuca | Dec 5 2022 4:56 utc | 192
Indeed. Have not checked, however reasonably safe assumption was designed for Afghanistan/Iraq/Syria conditions, given Aussies 20(?) years deployed in Afghanistan, & covert deployments in Iraq/Syria with SASR & combat drone pilots, let alone overt RAAF flights.
As you said, Cold/frost/wet is indeed dramatically different climatic & environmental battlefield conditions different to freezing/frozen/ice, down to -30+ below, no ? 🙂
Peace
Blazing Saddles — “Thruway”

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 5 2022 5:08 utc | 196

@ juliania | Dec 5 2022 5:02 utc | 195
okay… thanks for your take… don bacon is a weird poster that i have a hard time understanding.. how could anyone not see the stellar traits of lavrov next to someone like blinken?? did you see @ 7 post from david levin of karlof1’s translation of the lavrov presser? worth the read.. don bacon appears very ignorant of how the msm works.. they are run by the same folks pushing for war in ukraine.. to think the western msm would ever air anything lavrov said is to be ignorant of how the western media works today..

Posted by: james | Dec 5 2022 5:16 utc | 198

Michael Emmons | Dec 5 2022 4:49 utc | 189
Ukraine/ Russia has 2 seasons. Spring and autumn where the ground turns to slush…. Like metres deep.
The Russians have a name for it.. Rasputitsa. Not sure if it’s one or both seasons.
Ground is solid in summer. Frozen solid in winter and impassable slush twice a year …..
All summer assaults could be made across open fields. Now it’s roads only… making troop movements carnival tin duck shooting …

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 5 2022 5:29 utc | 200