Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 19, 2022
Ukraine – Is There Really A Change Of The Narrative?

In Alastair Crooke's latest piece he discusses the change of narrative that occurred due to The Economist's recent Ukrainian interviews:

The Economist leads with interviews with Zelensky, General Zaluzhny and Ukraine’s military field commander, General Syrsky. All three are interviewed – interviewed in The Economist, no less. Such a thing does not occur by happenstance. It is messaging intended to convey the Ruling Class’ new narrative to the ‘golden billion’ (who will all read and absorb it).

On the surface, it is possible to read The Economist piece as a plea for more money and many more weapons. But the underlying messaging is clear: “Anyone who underestimates Russia is heading for defeat”. The Russian force mobilisation was a success; there is no problem with Russian morale; and Russia is preparing a huge winter offensive that will start soon. Russia has huge reserve forces (of up to 1.2 million men); whereas Ukraine now has 200,000 who are militarily trained for conflict. The ‘writing is on the wall’, in other words. Ukraine cannot win.

Scott Ritter, in discussion with Judge Neapolitano, believes that The Economist interviews reveal the West pushing aside Zelensky – as Zaluzhny administers his large dose of reality (that will be shocking to many sherpa loyalists). The Economist interview emphasis thus was unmistakably on General Zaluzhny, with Zelensky pointedly de-emphasised – which Ritter suggests indicates that Washington wishes to ‘switch leadership horses’. Another ‘message’?

Just to be clear, General Zaluzhny once said he considers himself a disciple of Russian General Gerasimov, the Chief of General Staff. Zaluzhny reportedly is familiar with the latter’s writings. In brief, Zaluzhny is known in Moscow as a professional soldier (albeit one committed to the Ukrainian nationalist cause).

So, is the West preparing its narrative to cut from this unwinnable conflict –Ukraine – and to move on?

That might indeed by a possibility. Could the U.S. and NATO just limp out of the situation and leave it to Zaluzhny to negotiated his defeat with Russia?

But haven't Biden, NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg and Germany's chancellor Scholz said that Russia 'can not be allowed to win'? Sure, they have.

But Crooke points to Afghanistan and how fast the chaotic retreat from Kabul has vanished from the media and is now mostly forgotten. The Taliban were another enemy that could not be allowed to win. They won. And no one cares about it.

I dearly hope that the scenario, as Crooke lays it out, will soon come true in Ukraine. But alas I am a realist. Russia will not stop the war without achieving its aims. Zaluzhny will not be allowed to negotiate for peace.

M. K. Bhadrakumar notes that any peace negotiations depend on Biden's agreement:

The clearest indication that the US is far from in a hurry to negotiate comes from none other than the White House National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan whose visit to Kiev last month (just before the US midterms) had triggered a flurry of speculations that Washington was pressuring President Zelensky to negotiate. 

Now, Sullivan’s remarks at an appearance at the Carnegie last weekend made it clear that the US is in Ukraine for the long haul. He said: 

“We don’t know when this is going to end up. What we do know is that it is our job to continue to sustain our military support to Ukraine so that they are in their best possible position on the battlefield, that if and when diplomacy is ripe, they will be in the best possible position at the negotiating table. 

“That moment is not ripe now, and so, as a result, we’ve gone to Congress and asked for a substantial amount of further resources to be able to continue to ensure that Ukraine has the means to fight this war. We’re confident we will get bipartisan support for that… 

“I am not going to precept the future, I’m only going to assure that in the present we are doing everything we can to maximise Ukraine’s chances of defending its sovereignty and territorial integrity… yes, it is likely to go on for quite some time…”

Basically, the US claims to have a winning hand in Ukraine.

The Economist interviews were published on December 15. The Sullivan talk at Carnegie was held a day later. If there had been a change of mind in the White House it would have been part of that interview.

I also think that Zaluzhny is not the kind of leader who is likely to organize, or allow himself to be drawn into a coup. In fact it may well be that the rumors from Kiev are true and that Zelensky and his staff are working to push him out. He would be replaced by the other Ukrainian general The Economist had interviewed:

On several occasions, [General Syrsky] was actually senior in the chain of command to Valery Zaluzhny, appointed to be the commander-in-chief of the entire armed forces in July 2021. Some political actors behind the scenes may be using that fact in an apparent attempt to foment tensions between the two. Rumours even persist that the presidential administration might be inclined to replace the popular but independent-minded General Zaluzhny with his former boss. Cracks of disunity have high-placed Western military officials worried. The two generals on their part say they fully trust each other and wish to stay out of politics. General Syrsky is uncomfortable with the conversation. “The army is outside of politics,” he says. “It is how it should be, and how the law demands it to be.”

Neither Zaluzhny nor Syrsky are men for a coup. If Zelenski is to go, some other politician, probably a more radical one, is likely to take the lead.

As Bhadrakumar concludes:

Therefore, in the prevailing circumstances, Russia’s option narrows down to inflicting a crushing defeat on Ukraine in the coming months and installing a government in Kiev that is not under Washington’s control. But that requires a fundamental shift in the Russian military strategy, which would factor in the real possibility of a confrontation with the US and NATO at some point.

Even while they are still deluded about Ukraine's chance for success, neither NATO nor the White House have shown any appetite for war with Russia. They have likely come to understand the real meaning of General Zaluzhny's request:

I know that I can beat this enemy. But I need resources. I need 300 tanks, 600-700 IFVs, 500 Howitzers. Then, I think it is completely realistic to get to the lines of February 23rd.

At the start of the war Ukraine had, at least on paper, a well equipped military:

Ukraine has a lot of tanks and is ranked 13th across the globe with 2,430. In terms of armored vehicles, Kiev also ranks high, occupying the seventh spot globally with 11,435. Kiev’s artillery power is also formidable at 2,040 batteries.

That General Zaluzhny requested all that new stuff is a confession that most if not all the old stuff is gone. That includes the weapons he received after the war started. If the 20 percent of the Russian military that was used in Ukraine could do so much material damage in such a short time how long would a NATO army in a war against Russia survive?

Comments

Arch Bungle @ 281
There is a new thread open so I will post this on the dead thread. Delusions are an important part of life.
I might be over-reporting a bit, pretty sure every American veteran I’ve known believes in UFOs. Piloted of course by extra-terrestrials. And then there are the reptilians. Not everyone is down with the reptilian hypothesis, most are. If you don’t know reptilians enter that term in the search bar and learn Americana. This is not just enlisted men with an IQ of 95. Officers and specialists of all stripes believe in this.
Another popular belief is blue-helmeted UN troops conducting exercises out in the woods. You ain’t from around here if you’ve never seen them. ‘Around here ‘ would include Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Missouri, Pennsylvania, California, just from my experience. Those reporting the blue helmets would include attorneys, schoolteachers, engineers, small businessmen, those who you would expect to have some sort of reality check from daily life.
As the delusions of Wokery become more established those who believe in Jan 6 and Trump pee videos and anti-vaxxer Putinbots appear more and more to be the same Americana whack jobs as the reptilian folks. Big difference would be most of the reptilian and blue helmet folks know there are things you just don’t mention in polite society. The Woke believe they are society.
Someone tell me it is different elsewhere. I honestly don’t know. Even in big cities in US these belief systems are very common. Only place it doesn’t exist is in academia. Or academia when we were young. I know a current professor at a well reputed university who completely subscribes to reptilians. Not in the classroom or in publications but believes just the same.

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 20 2022 17:36 utc | 301

FrankDrakman @207–
Thanks for your reply. Canadian hydrocarbons–the Tar Sands–will never be fully developed due to resource constraints–gas and water–I know because I owned stock in associated RCTs involved in the process during 1990s and 2000s and deeply researched the issue.
On inflation, correct, Trump’s tariffs are only a part of the overall picture, the greatest impact being all those printing press dollars plus dollars being repatriated due to dedollarization efforts by RoW. I do know that inflation within Neoliberal nations is grossly understated running almost double the “official” rate. That data I get from Shadowstats, an analyst who computes economic numbers the way they once were before the Feds decided they needed to lie to everyone about the economy. I also try to account for what Hudson calls “Overhead Costs” to overall GDP, which when done provides a very bleak picture of the economic reality within the Outlaw US Empire.
As for proven reserves of hydrocarbons, the numbers I cite are EIA or IEA, the two official Western sources. The one last known region of unexplored hydrocarbon resources within the Outlaw US Empire are those off the North shore of Alaska in the Beaufort Sea, but there are absolutely zero infrastructure emplacements to provide the support required for exploration and extraction. Nor are there any facilities in the vicinity of Nome built to interdict Russia’s Northern Sea Route. Plus, the Empire has one–1!–servicable icebreaker while Russia has an outstanding fleet of the world’s best.
The above is what one should expect when planning is done by Neoliberal parasitic banksters.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 20 2022 17:42 utc | 302

We should first understand that the Economist is the mouthpiece MI6 and liberal British elites. The British are keenly aware that they will be the target of Russian nuke strike if and when Ukraine goes south. Unsure of the future they are hedging their bets. The tip goal of most MI6 activity is to cause problems in the EU to weaken continental powers in such a way that Britain will never be challenged directly again. This article reflects the reality that Russians need to totally sink aircraft carrier GB in the event of conflict between US and RU. The Brits believe that they have caused enough economic damage to meet MI6’s goal of weakening continental Europe after failed Britex. They believe that they have helped the Democrats undermine US elections in such a way that Dems will help England economically and or MI6 will spill the beans on illegal Dem activity.

Posted by: ATM | Dec 20 2022 17:56 utc | 303

Imo the west and Russia are far too far apart for negotiations because any agreement Russia would accept would admit the west lost.
I expect all 9 Russian speaking oblasts will become part of Russia. 5 so far, Odessa/Kharkov and 2 others still to come., plus a deep no man’s land, say 300k patrolled by drones and bereft of power. The west can neither officially accept or stop this, so nothing to negotiate. And I doubt poles will be interested in a west Ukraine with no power.
It’s hard to imagine eu hangs together as they become poor, industry leaves etc. granted leaders may be committed to us, but what about the voters? Will they be ok as social benefits are dismantled during raging inflation? Next winter will be worse because no Russian gas at all.
The west will be ready to pivot when msm tells us z refused to take west advice etc, mo matter it was the west that torpedoed the near agreement in march. It won’t matter if z remains in power or not, west will call the shots.

Posted by: John k | Dec 20 2022 18:02 utc | 304

Russia’s supporters on this blog are as likely to be fascists as socialists- unrepresented by political parties, the last “left’ social democratic parties having been smashed
Posted by: bevin | Dec 20 2022 16:35 utc | 298

It’s no longer about right and left. It’s about right and wrong.

The clear political alternative to Capitalism is Eco-socialism. But what is it?

Neo puritanical nonsense. Sackcloth and ashes. A godless cult of miserabilist nihilism.

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 20 2022 18:30 utc | 305

@krypton 85
Worth remembering that Churchill gave the Fascist Polish Colonels the power to drag the world to an unwanted and unneeded war in the 1930s*, and we all know how that worked out.
*From my Hitler and WW II:
On March 25, 1939, Hitler issued a secret directive to his army commander in chief: “The Fuehrer does not wish to solve the Danzig question by force. He does not wish to drive Poland into the arms of Britain by this.”

Hitler did not want war with Poland, he wanted an alliance with Poland. In April Hitler advised the High-Command that he did not intend war and did not expect one until 1942, when he expected a short but decisive war with Russia.

And then, false intelligence of German’s plans, false reading of Hitler’s intentions, lead directly to disaster. Despite its utter unenforceability, the fact that Poland had been as instrumental in the dismantling of Czechoslovakia as Germany, and the sheer nastiness of the Polish dictatorship, under pressure from the followers of Churchill and the Labourites, as well as by Halifax who preferred war, and the sacrifice of Poland to Hitler’s war machine rather than Britain yielding her preeminence in Europe and the world, Chamberlain unconstitutionally and accidentally guaranteed war. On March 31, 1939, he announced to parliament, ” I now have to inform the House that . . . in the event of any action which clearly threatened Polish independence and which the Polish Government accordingly considered it vital to resist with their national forces, His Majesty’s Government would feel themselves bound at once to lend the Polish Government all support in their power. They have given the Polish Government an assurance to that effect.”
We know, unambiguously, that he meant merely “to prevent further expansion by Germany, describing his speech as “unprovocative in tone, but firm, clear but stressing that the important point (perceived alone by the Times*) that what we are concerned with is not the boundary of States, but attacks on their independence. And it is we who will judge whether this independence is threatened or not.” Unfortunately, that is not how the world, including the suicidal “colonels” of Poland, saw it. As Earnest May described it, “a government that a half-year earlier had resisted going to war for a faraway country with democratic institutions, well-armed military forces, and strong fortifications, now promised with no apparent reservations to go to war for a dictatorship with less-than-modern armed forces and wide-open frontiers, or, in the words of Niall Ferguson, “The war guarantee to Poland tied Britain’s “destiny to that of a regime that was every bit as undemocratic and anti-Semitic as that of Germany,”

Posted by: Hermit | Dec 20 2022 18:32 utc | 306

@ Opportunity Knocks.
The Argentinian Government offered a million bucks each to the islanders. The offer was not taken.

Posted by: Peacenik | Dec 20 2022 18:32 utc | 307

karlof1 | Dec 20 2022 17:42 utc | 304
_____
Yet another fine exemplar of EMH “Efficient Market Hypothesis” — capitalism inaction.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Dec 20 2022 19:03 utc | 308

@ Opportunity Knocks.
The Argentinian Government offered a million bucks each to the islanders. The offer was not taken.
Posted by: Peacenik | Dec 20 2022 18:32 utc | 309

My understanding of the first offer is that it was made in 1953 to the British government and not to the islanders directly. The later discussions were also with paid British government officials.
The competent block busting real estate developers that I know will deal with landowners one-on-one 😉

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 20 2022 19:31 utc | 309

Doug Hillman @310–
Thanks for your reply. IMO, the energy issue is paramount–look at Europe and tell me it isn’t. As Hudson constantly reminds us, one major Outlaw US Empire policy goal is control of global energy movements both at their source and transit points. But with the USN and Seven Sisters becoming decrepit, this policy goal can no longer be accomplished. When the Empire’s proven hydrocarbon reserves become even more depleted by 2030, its relationship with the RoW will possibly be very restricted along with its ability to access hydrocarbons it finds it now must import to supply its domestic demand. Unlike other nations with very well focused and sophisticated development plans, the Outlaw US Empire has none aside from the continuing corruption and related enrichment of the now familiar parasites. A Soylent Green outcome won’t need to be driven by climate change and its ocean acidification; continuing neglect of its industry and related infrastructure is really all that’s needed along with a generation of youth that are mostly wimps.
Back when I was a kid in the early 1960s the comic books always had ads for those needing help to deal with those “beach bullies” kicking sand in your face while stealing your girl. Beef up and become strong was the touted remedy, which was correct of course. But for two generations, that sort of motivation has mostly disappeared, while the RoW continues to follow the advice for combatting bullies.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 20 2022 20:03 utc | 310

«I think Washington is very delighted with the current situation. They feel that Russia has limited capabilities of holding Ukrainian territory against insurection type activities if the cost is high enough. […] As usual the purpose of Washington is not to win a war for the Ukrainian people, but rather to create chaos at Russia’s borders.»
In addition, it is russian cities that are being bombed, and it is european cities that are short of fuel, while USA cities are untouched and USA oil/gas and weapons corporates are making enormous profits.

Posted by: Blissex | Dec 20 2022 20:43 utc | 311

altai/2022 22 1200@243
thank you for ‘transference of trump derangement syndrome’ over to putin…! brilliant dot connector. that dumpster was chosen by the banking cabal over hitlery always befuddled me (fyi: i loathed hitlery & was relieved by the win b/c like many viewed him as less likely to initiate war with mother & china). why fill the empire with clowns? why if they are playing for all the treasure, the entire globe & most certainly mother russia & china why purposefully make your king a clown pawn? i could never fathom the plan, although was certain a plan had been set & was in play…occasionally i would muse that perhaps the late rothschild had suffered some form of dementia. but, no, altai you’ve very nicely provided a clue. yes, transference of a universal repugnance for dumpster to his supposed creator, puppetmaster, thereby further shielding his true master & channelling the pent up loathing to putin in preparation of the next big event, ww3 for all the treasure, all the glory & all the world. heady stuff, pleonexia @ its very height. never imagining mother might recover, her genius fully intact & having garnered from her mistaken trust & transformed it to the elegant power of wisdom.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Dec 20 2022 20:55 utc | 312

Not sure what the relevance of this Wikipedia extract is to this thread. For Ukraine, if Poilievre becomes PM, his foreign policy will become whatever the US tells him it is.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 20 2022 16:31 utc | 297

If you are Canadian and not a fan of the `Canadian Truckers Freedom Karlofs’, you do. https://twitter.com/Justin_Ling/status/1490925393498767362

In an ’emergency’ press conference, the truckers’ new spokesperson Tom Marazzo says: “I’m willing to sit at a table with the conservatives and the NDP and the Bloc, as a coalition. I’ll sit with the governor general.”

If you don’t like the NeoNazi maidan, you can’t turn around and champion the far right wing/lunatic fringe/Sovereign Citizen`Truckers’ maidan in Ottawa.

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 20 2022 21:32 utc | 313

@ Laurence | Dec 20 2022 21:32 utc | 315
your characterization of the trucker convey reminds me of the bullshit the canuck media spun, thanks cbc mostly… fortunately a number of us canucks have a much more positive viewpoint of the truckers and a low one of trudeau for not speaking with them, but instead offering up the emergencies act… for those fans of this type of dictatorial and fascist type action, moa is the wrong place to hang…

Posted by: james | Dec 21 2022 1:37 utc | 314

Dear james, they characterized themselves: https://twitter.com/Justin_Ling/status/1490925393498767362

In an ’emergency’ press conference, the truckers’ new spokesperson Tom Marazzo says: “I’m willing to sit at a table with the conservatives and the NDP and the Bloc, as a coalition. I’ll sit with the governor general.”

That is simply treason under the criminal code. They deputized members to make arrests. Is moa the right place to hang, for such rabble?

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 21 2022 2:03 utc | 315

@ Laurence | Dec 21 2022 2:03 utc | 317
got a twitter link to verify this quote? – “They deputized members to make arrests.”
a little bullshit from twitter is all fine and good… i wouldn’t put much stock in any of it myself… i think the truckers were cool and the goon squad headed by cbc news and etc – wasn’t cool… in this regard we appear to differ…. i am with the little people and that would include the truckers, as opposed to those trying to oppress others… if you think cbc, trudeau and friends would have given this treatment to a group of bankers or lawyers – we clearly see this topic very differently..

Posted by: james | Dec 21 2022 2:09 utc | 316

btw laurence – this is a thread on ukraine.. if you want to talk truckers – put it on the moa week in review… this is ot bullshit from you.. why am i not surprised?

Posted by: james | Dec 21 2022 2:11 utc | 317

So you think treason is cool. Whyaminotsurprised. Since you have simply ignored their self incrimination in the linked video, I won’t brother fetching the link you requested. They did, complete with `official looney-tune seal’ of their provisional government.
And regarding the introduction of the matter to this thread:
… it’s been clear for the last 4-5 months that the new wild card is the EU populous as foreshadowed by the Canadian Trucker’s Freedom “—karlof1 | Dec 19 2022 23:46 utc | 122
🤣` … https://twitter.com/Justin_Ling/status/1490925393498767362

In an ’emergency’ press conference, the truckers’ new spokesperson Tom Marazzo says: “I’m willing to sit at a table with the conservatives and the NDP and the Bloc, as a coalition. I’ll sit with the governor general.”

“Me, I’m just an extremely interested bystander concerned about the nature of the future for ou”— ‡
Posted by: Laurence | Dec 20 2022 1:06 utc | 150
Whose kids? Pope Frank’s, Karlof’s and yours, james?
It was by no means “populous”. How many `little people’ do you know who own their own semi tractors and can afford to park them idling in Ottawa for a month?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_convoy_protest

The convoy was condemned by trucking industry and labour groups. The Canadian Trucking Alliance stated that most protesters had no connection to trucking. Near a blockade in Coutts, Alberta, multiple weapons were seized and four men charged with conspiracy to commit murder of Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) officers.

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 21 2022 3:04 utc | 318

… It is only on Mt Athos -Orthodoxy’s “Vatican” – and Russia that Christmas is still celebrated on the OLD Julian calendar ; which still reads as Dec25th but falls on Jan 7th of our scientifically accurate Gregorian calendar. The latter calendar ,being the one used by the churches most recently is thus usually the “secular calendar”.
Like I said , I could be wrong , and am happy to be corrected by those who know more.
Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 20 2022 11:44 utc | 241
Wishing to make you happy, Brother Ma, I will correct you, but only from a limited perspective. In the US at least, there are a multipolarity (if I can borrow the phrase) of Orthodox churches. Those from Russian heritage sometimes do adhere to the Old Calendar, as did my little home church when it was in existence. So also do other groups, such as the Alaskan parishes which have a Russian heritage and to which many native groups belong. For myself, I love the fact that as with Russians, our year to year cycle, feast after feast, remains continuous – stretching to 13 days the gap from the time when astronomical and religious celebrations were closer than they are now. But to each his own; that’s simply the tradition I came into.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 21 2022 3:50 utc | 319

Posted by: juliania | Dec 21 2022 3:50 utc | 321
Thanks,Juliana. It gets even better with regards to the timing of Easter! I read a book that at some point in time ,Orthodox Easter and Catholic/Protestant Easter will no longer coincide at any time . All due to astronomical precession ie expanding universe etc.
Even when Orthodox Churches adopted the modern secular calendar as well ,the churches could still not agree on the definition of the Passover Feast having to do with the New Moon or Full moon etc. Very tricky, theological /legal /philological study of the Torah and Bible.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 21 2022 8:44 utc | 320

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 21 2022 3:04 utc | 320
Thank you for informing me of the trucking convoy particulars.
Non-Canadian asking, Why didn’t legacy media inform us of all this , and allow us to think they were just innocent hardworking “mum and dad “ truckers? Surely the Establishment has an interest in making Trudeau look good-to keep him voting and supporting US/Nato Adventurism- rather than have people want to vote him out? What gives?
Can put your response in the current non -ukraine thread if you wish .
Posted by: emersonreturn | Dec 20 2022 20:55 utc | 314
Please try and use paragraphs more a little more often . I try and read all posts from everyone, even those of idiots and troublemakers , and actually like reading yours. However, I skip yours lately , as they literally hurt my eyes . I reckon you would have more people read your posts if you used more paragraphing.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 21 2022 9:05 utc | 321

unimperator | Dec 21 2022 11:00 utc | 105
“There’s no practical way to counter… the HiMARS attacks on civilian Donbass”…
After 8 years and now 8+ SMO months…. I still don’t understand *why* they can’t counter the shelling.
I’d really appreciate an explanation….
I’m obviously missing something… but to my thinking… they know the range of the HiMARS and the other MLRS …. they know the locations where the shelling originates.
Take a stand-off surveilling drone overhead 24/7 like the USUK has on 24/7 patrol of Poland Romania and the Black Sea…. Have one of these drones do laps of Donbass 24/7. Once shelling is detected… call in the response by way of Russian arty or missiles or a fucking FOAB.
[Wtf shoigu???]
Anyone want to ELIM5 about why this ^ is not an option?

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 21 2022 12:14 utc | 322

The question ” how long would NATO survive a war with Russia?” should be “how long would the human race survive a war between NATO and Russia?”

Posted by: w t baker | Dec 21 2022 13:09 utc | 323

@antipropo
And nothing screams “we are winning” like a chaotic partial mobilization of the so-called reservists. And then in too many instances failing to equip or train.
At this point all I will say is that if it just stays at a Russia/Ukraine war, Russia can’t lose.

Posted by: obfuscacious | Dec 22 2022 6:17 utc | 324