Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 9, 2022
‘Minsk II Was Agreed On To Arm Ukraine’ – Did Merkel Really Say That?

Helmholtz Smith, Andrew Korybko and Andrei Martyanov have some thoughts about a recent interview the former German chancellor Angela Merkel gave to the German weekly broadsheet Die Zeit.

Smith says it shows that the 'West' is not trustworthy. Korybko thinks the interview will prolong the conflict in Ukraine. Martyanov says that Merkel is stupid. She isn't.

In the interview Merkel seems to claim that the Minsk agreements between the Ukrainian government and the Donbas region, which she negotiated and co-signed as guarantor, was never meant to be fulfilled. It was only meant to give time to build up the Ukrainian military.

I however think that such an interpretation is wrong. Merkel is under very harsh critique not only in the U.S. but also in her own conservative party. She is now out to justify her previous decisions as well as the current bad outcome in Ukraine. My hunch is that she is making things up. Unfortunately she also creates serious damage.

The relevant passage of the interview is longer than the one paragraph Helmholtz Smith and other cite. The context is important. Here is my translation of it:

ZEIT: Do you ask yourself if the years of relative calm were also years of omissions and if you were not only a crisis manager, but also partly the cause of crises?

Merkel: I would not be a political person if I did not deal with that. […some stuff about climate action …] Let us look at my policy towards Russia and Ukraine. I come to the conclusion that I made the decisions I made back then in a way that I can understand today. It was an attempt to prevent just such a war. The fact that this was not successful does not mean that the attempts were wrong.

I think the above is genuine. The Minsk agreements were a serious attempt to prevent war by reintegrating Donbas into a federalized Ukraine.

However, the Ukrainian president Poroshenko did not have the will and the political backing to fulfill the agreement. There was no chance that, under him, a federalization law would pass the Ukrainian parliament. Moreover the U.S., the only party who could have really pressured him, told him not to follow up on the agreement. But then came Zelensky who was elected by a large majority on the promise to fulfill Minsk II. He even made attempts to do that. But he soon found out that his own life was in serious danger if he continued to try. There was also U.S. pressure as it which did not want Minsk fulfilled. Merkel however can not say that out loud. By late 2019 she must have recognized that Minsk II was blocked forever. It was a serious defeat for her but there was nothing she could do about it.

She therefore now comes up, ex post, with a Chamberlain excuse. The 1938 Munich agreement Chamberlain signed prevented Germany from immediately going to war and gave the UK and others time to arm up. The Minsk agreement, Merkel claims now, bought time for Ukraine to get its military into better conditions:

ZEIT: But one can still find it plausible how one acted in earlier circumstances and today, in view of the results, consider it wrong.

Merkel: But that also requires you to say what exactly the alternatives were at the time. I thought the initiation of NATO accession for Ukraine and Georgia discussed in 2008 was wrong. The countries neither had the necessary prerequisites for this, nor had the consequences of such a decision been fully considered, both with regard to Russia's actions against Georgia and Ukraine and to NATO and its rules of assistance. And the 2014 Minsk agreement was an attempt to give Ukraine time.

(ZEIT Editor Note: The Minsk Agreement is a set of agreements for the self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Luhansk, which under Russian influence broke away from Ukraine . The aim was to gain time with a ceasefire in order to later come to a peace between Russia and Ukraine.)

It also used this time to get stronger, as you can see today. The Ukraine of 2014/15 is not the Ukraine of today. As you saw in the battle for Debaltseve (railway town in Donbass, Donetsk Oblast, ed.) in early 2015, Putin could easily have overrun them at the time. And I very much doubt that the NATO countries could have done as much then as they do now to help Ukraine.

ZEIT: In your first public appearance after the end of your chancellorship, you said that you had already recognized in 2007 how Putin thinks about Europe and that the only language he understands is harshness. If this realization came so early, why did you pursue an energy policy that made us so dependent on Russia?

Merkel: It was clear to all of us that the conflict was frozen, that the problem had not been solved, but that gave Ukraine valuable time. Of course, one can now ask the question: Why was the construction of Nord Stream 2 still approved in such a situation?

ZEIT: Yes, why? Especially since there was already very strong criticism of the construction of the pipeline at that time, for example from Poland and the USA.

Merkel: Yes, one could come to different opinions. What was it about? On the one hand, Ukraine attached great importance to remaining a transit country for Russian gas. It wanted to channel gas through her territory and not through the Baltic Sea. Today people sometimes act as if every Russian gas molecule was from the devil. It wasn't like that, the gas was contested. On the other hand, it was not the case that the federal government had applied for the approval of Nord Stream 2, the companies did that. Ultimately, for the federal government and for me, it was a matter of deciding whether we would make a new law as a political act to expressly refuse approval of Nord Stream 2.

ZEIT: What prevented you from doing that?

Merkel: On the one hand, such a refusal in combination with the Minsk Agreement would, in my view, have dangerously worsened the climate with Russia. On the other hand, the energy policy dependency arose because there was less gas from the Netherlands and Great Britain and limited production volumes in Norway. …

I think that Merkel is obfuscating. Her original intent with Minsk II was not to buy time to arm Ukraine. Her intent was to prevent a further war and to make peace. The argument, that it gave time for Ukraine to arm, is only made now and only to save her political ass in the current political climate.

The proof for that is in what she also brings up, Nord Stream 2, which has always had her full support. Its intent was to make Germany independent from the pipelines through Ukraine and Poland. But war came before the much delayed pipeline was ready. And any realistic alternative for Germany's current position was gone after the U.S. finally blew it up. Her answer with regards to Nord Stream 2 makes no sense if she, at the same time that Nord Stream 2 was being built, had intentionally prepared Ukraine for war.

There is another point that makes the 'bought time' ex post argument invalid. In 2014 Russia came under quite harsh sanctions and had huge problems to reconfigure its supply chains. Russia has used the time since to prepare for even harsher sanctions and a war. Notice how few problems Russia has now after really crushing sanctions were deployed. That required preparation. In 2018 Russia introduced a number of superior strategic weapons which are now deployed. In 2014 the S-400 air defense system was only a prototype. Today all Russian air defense groups have and deploy it. Russia used the time to up its war supplies, especially artillery ammunition and missiles.

If you think the 'bought time' argument is genuine look at the situation in Russia and compare with the Ukraine and the rest of Europe. Who has used the time better? Who is now in a better position? 

The problem with Merkel's sorry and false excuse is that it creates, as Korybko points out, real damage. Everyone, including Russia's president Putin, seems to read only that one paragraph with the ex post argument, not the full context. This makes bringing the war in Ukraine to an end much more difficult.

Putin now says he had believed in Merkel's seriousness about Minsk. He is now deeply disappointed. Who can he talk to about peace when everyone one on the other side is non-agreement capable?

AZ 🛰🌏🌍🌎 @AZgeopolitics – 15:41 UTC · 9 Dec 2022

đŸ‡©đŸ‡ȘđŸ‡șđŸ‡ŠđŸ‡·đŸ‡ș Putin – about Merkel's words about cheating with the Minsk agreements:"To be honest, it was absolutely unexpected for me. It's disappointing. Trust almost dropped to 0. How to negotiate? About what? And is it possible to negotiate with them? Where are the guarantees? "

Video with English subs


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I hope that Putin will still read the interview in its full context and change his mind.

Was it Merkel's intent to undermine trust? I don't know. Why would she?

For the record: I have disliked most of Merkel's  policies. I never voted for her or for any of the parties which supported her governments. But she wasn't a bad politician and I did respect her. That respect is now gone.

Comments

@ OttoE | Dec 10 2022 15:47 utc | 288
Thanks for your post.
The Thruth all non-German needs to know:

Indirectly though, a typical Merkel hallmark.

1) May I adeed: such an article was “highly likely” revised by Merkel before publishing.
2)Is somebody here really thinking that Merkel could manipulate Putin?

Posted by: La Bastille | Dec 10 2022 16:56 utc | 301

@ La Bastille | Dec 10 2022 16:56 utc | 305
in answer to your last question, i can think of a few posters here who do – seanau and don bacon.. a few others too.. according to them lavrov and putin are a couple of losers… obviously a number of us see it differently..

Posted by: james | Dec 10 2022 17:02 utc | 302

“The longer I think about this the more I agree with OttoE @288. Merkel had plenty of ways to manage her legacy here and no real reason she needed to speak publicly on it…”
Posted by: Lex | Dec 10 2022 16:14 utc | 293
I also agree with OttoE, and thank b for this important discussion.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 10 2022 17:04 utc | 303

Further to my comment at #304, I’d be interested to kn ow just what platitudes Merkel uttered in b’s abbreviated translation:
Merkel: I would not be a political person if I did not deal with that. […some stuff about climate action …] Let us look at my policy…
Obviously, she couldn’t speak truthfully about the real importance of NSII to her policy, as that would get her mullered by the high priests of climate catastrophism, so I wonder what those prefacing remarks were.

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 10 2022 17:23 utc | 304

Sorry to see this effort by the west whereby in order to maintain control, they create a mob. It’s like a philosophical misconception made by an adolescent. Sad to see that it has achieved some success so far. When it happens to fall apart, good lord what hell will break loose!

Posted by: Geoff | Dec 10 2022 17:41 utc | 305

One must admit that Angela Merkel has a formidable pair of weapons of mass distraction.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Dec 10 2022 17:41 utc | 306

Germany’s chain was never all that long, Bader Meinhoff was probably the last group of independent Germans and this day was bound to come.

Posted by: Nemo | Dec 10 2022 17:46 utc | 307

Bader Meinhoff was probably the last group of independent
Posted by: Nemo | Dec 10 2022 17:46 utc | 313
The story is a bit more complicated.
Smoke and Mirrors.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 10 2022 17:58 utc | 308

Lets not forget the history of German Russian relations and its impact on Merkel policy over the Ukraine. The Common Economic Space from Lisbon to Vladivostok project was started during USSR and was most probably destined to build an alternative to the possible duo of US and China growing partnership (that was pretty oboviously against the USSR – China involvement into Afghanistan resistance support is just an example of that). Yep, USA did blew it up. So did China too.
The message could be regarded as an excuse for Merkel, as it could be for Putin. More interesting is what were the real Merkel’s intentions? To emphasize both? And if so, then why she did that?

Posted by: asehi | Dec 10 2022 18:10 utc | 309

Just shows what complete, lying psychopaths the UK and US are.
No wonder Russia is disillusioned with the West: we all are.

Posted by: LevZasetsky | Dec 10 2022 18:42 utc | 310

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 10 2022 12:44 utc | 274
Posted by: Outraged | Dec 10 2022 14:00 utc | 281
Thanks for following up so completely on “Bill Smith’s” drivel after I turned in last night. Since I hesitate to call out people as ‘trolls’ without offering at least one possible alternative, so I’ll just write him off as such or as an ineducable and incompetent researcher and a persistent sheep.

Posted by: StirThePot | Dec 10 2022 18:53 utc | 311

Is it a foregone conclusion that the US destroyed NS1/2?

Posted by: Musicalmindz | Dec 10 2022 18:54 utc | 312

There is one sentence Merkel said which has not been cited/translated, and which is most revealing. It is this:
“Als Putin 2014 die Krim ĂŒberfiel,…”, i.e.
“when Putin assaulted Crimea in 2014, …”
which is such obvious bullcrap that it leaves no further doubts that during the whole interview with ZEIT she speaks with only one goal in mind; to save her own sorry ass.
It is also obvious considering the question raised at the beginning of the interview: to what purpose she maintains an office with 9 (!) employees. And another issue raised by the reporter: the whole world is waiting for some self-critique on your part! The lady is under some pressure.
Reading the interview several points become obvious –
1) Merkel is a full-blown political beast without any principles, a true turncoat, and would change her views in a minute if politically required.
2) Merkel seems to have been truly interested in NS2, which is why she somehow grew a little spine vis-a-vis the Polack and US demands to abandon the project. This probably as she realised how much she had fucked up abandoning nuclear power following Fukushima, and catering to the greens abandoning coal etc.
3) She had managed to out-live several seemingly lethal issues (such as the Greek debt problem) by a mixture of tough negotiations, the above lack of principles, and sheer luck. She must have thought that any future problem could be solved in this same manner.
What I believe reading her (entire) interview?
She probably would have liked Minsk to win her time (HER! not to Ukraine!) to get NS2 working.
She would not have liked the Russian army to run over Ukraine in 2015, as it would have killed NS2 right then and there.
And she probably underestimated the ruthlessness of the Kiev regime and its backers.
Did she FOOL Putin? Trick him into signing the deal? No effing way. She was a duplicitous bitch alright, and she probably thought she could lure him into Minsk due to the NS2 prospects (which he liked, too). But Putin always knew who he was dealing with. After all, he knew her for full 10 years at that time!
By the way, I doubt whether Russia could have just overrun the Ukrops back then, as Merkel states. B is right, Russia used the time probably better than Ukraine/NATO. And the odds of getting bogged down in an unappetising conflict would have been greater than now.

Posted by: Maurice Fribourg | Dec 10 2022 19:08 utc | 313

@ Musicalmindz | Dec 10 2022 18:54 utc | 312
usa and friends yes.. this is why you hear nothing about it in the western corporate media… if they could imply it was russia that did it – mh17, skirpal/novichok, and etc. etc. the western press would be on this 24-7 year in and year out.. the reason they have skipped the nordstream sabotage is for all the obvious reasons.. they are guilty.. being at war with russia is the justification, but they are not allowed to say this, just like they continue to support the falsehood of nato being a purely defensive organization.. they are full of shite, but no one is supposed to know this…

Posted by: james | Dec 10 2022 19:34 utc | 314

In other words, she clearly states that Minsk II was intended to buy time for Ukraine to arm. I don’t think anyone can deny that’s true. And everyone seems to agree that Merkel wanted NS2.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 9 2022 23:50 utc | 125
I think she was saying that Ukraine needed more time to qualify to join NATO and EU. To join the former it would need upgraded military which indeed happened. Building up the military is not really the same as preparing to go to war.
Because now there is some sort of war, her remark is being overly colored with that post ipso facto knowledge. I suspect also that she did not anticipate the protracted, multi-year conflict in Donbass which ended up making either EU or NATO membership impossible for Ukraine. (And perhaps why RF chose to let that pot keep simmering? )

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 10 2022 19:37 utc | 315

@ Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 10 2022 16:44 utc | 297
The refugees caused by the natzo Empires invasion of Syria and the MENA, should have been left to freeze to death surrounded by barbed wire to protect fortress Europe from their non Aryan presence, or bombed to bits to get rid of the problem.
If they were Ukrainians fleeing that would be a different matter of course.
That evil Mutti helping out Hungary and stealing these refugees into Germany for use in their labour force was obviously not any kind of humanitarian charitable response, She should be hated for ever for not letting them all suffer and die like a real Nazi would.
Hope that satisfies you enough to not need my approval of your sensibilities again. M’kay Tom?

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 10 2022 19:40 utc | 316

Viktor Bout, the swapped ‘arms dealer & alleged “merchant of death” (who Larry C. Johnson deems to be a Russian intel agent) already has given a big interview with RT
https://www.rt.com/russia/568022-viktor-bout-rt-interview/
From this interview:
An American revolution?
Asked whether he’d prefer to see Joe Biden or Donald Trump in the White House, Bout compared the two to “Coke Zero and Diet Pepsi,” adding that Russians “pay too much attention to US politics.”
“I don’t believe they’ll have a revolution in the United States,” he said, referring to political division in the country. Bout elaborated, arguing that excessive drug use is making young Americans too passive “to do anything,” while Washington ruthlessly punishes dissent, as it did when it jailed the Trump supporters who protested against Biden’s electoral victory on Capitol Hill last January.

Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Dec 10 2022 20:02 utc | 317

That evil Mutti helping out Hungary
Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 10 2022 19:40 utc | 316
Ha ha ha …. Mutti was helping Hungary ????? Oh DunGroanin, I think you got your wires crossed on this one.
Mutti did the ‘ole switch-a-roo like she did with Minsk II. First she said Germany will TAKE THEM ALL AND THEN turned around and started to stiff arm countries to “take their share”. Check the timeline on this process.
Mutti is a back stabber. Kohl knows it, his deceased wife knew it and so do many people who can think for themselves know it.
https://www.dw.com/en/helmut-kohls-son-gives-merkel-partial-blame-for-mothers-suicide/a-37680756
https://vk.com/@judi1964-coudenhove-kalergi-plan-stealth-genocide-against-the-peoples
Mutti is in the Bush Jr.-Blair Club as far as I’m concerned.
Merry Christmas 😉

Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 10 2022 20:18 utc | 318

Even if Merkel was interested in averting war, during the Minks accords for which she signed as guarantor, NATO, of which Germany is part, was building out NATO infrastructure, training a NATO norms battalion every 55 days from 2015 onwards, etc. She is just underscoring that Germany has no agency and should never have signed on. Americans were already circulating plans (which are in the public domain) for the “redevelopment” of Sebastopol in 2013 !
As for the comparison with Chamberlain’s so-called appeasement, this is a falsification of history, presenting the British connivance and their pact with Poland and to encourage German dominance of Central Europe against evil Bolshevik Russia, in a tragic heroic light instead of as the perpetual lying diplomatic cancer they have proved to be.

Posted by: Webej | Dec 10 2022 20:20 utc | 319

Even if Merkel was interested in averting war, during the Minks accords for which she signed as guarantor, NATO, of which Germany is part, was building out NATO infrastructure, training a NATO norms battalion every 55 days from 2015 onwards, etc. She is just underscoring that Germany has no agency and should never have signed on. Americans were already circulating plans (which are in the public domain) for the “redevelopment” of Sebastopol in 2013 !
As for the comparison with Chamberlain’s so-called appeasement, this is a falsification of history, presenting the British connivance and their pact with Poland and to encourage German dominance of Central Europe against evil Bolshevik Russia, in a tragic heroic light instead of as the perpetual lying diplomatic cancer they have proved to be.

Posted by: Webej | Dec 10 2022 20:22 utc | 320

Here’s another German, at least by name, reflecing on Merkel.
B, as German, reflects heavily at the Q.3 mostly ignoring others.
Me, not being German, cares no more about Q/3, but only about Q.1 and Q.2
https://sonar21.com/untrustworthy-by-helmholtz-smith/
……Putin was lied to and fooled.
I have three questions.
– Why would anybody in Russia ever bother negotiating with these people ever again about anything?
– Why would anybody in the rest of the world – China, India, Iran, the Middle East, Africa, South America – ever bother negotiating with these people ever again about anything?
– What possessed her to admit this now? An upwelling of conscience? Arrogance – we’re Number One and always will be and we don’t give a damn what you think? You’d think after the catastrophe that that is hitting Ukraine and Europe because she (and others) ignored diplomacy and negotiation that she’d keep her mouth shut.

Posted by: Arioch | Dec 10 2022 22:59 utc | 321

The problem with that defense of Merkel is that she was signing on to Minsk II as a GUARANTOR of Ukraine’s (and NATO’s) adherence to the terms.
The facts on the table is that Ukraine and NATO did not in fact adhere to the terms, and she (and Germany) did not honor and guarantee – which makes her word whatever angle you want to look at it from.

Posted by: AB | Dec 10 2022 23:09 utc | 322

Civilization is so dependent on fossil fuels. The ukro(nato)-russia war has brought it to the front. This forum is realpolitik discussing forum. My question is “Morocco is a good team. Solid in defense. But top European teams losing to Morocco in the fifa worldcup football, is it related to Europe’s scramble to secure secure energy supplies from the African continent?”. Then Europe is really in a bad place. If we take the word of the conspiracy theorists, the world is run by uber hans, jews, manchus and khazars and they control everything, they control Europe. Now the war is happening. This merits two assumption conglomerates I (part 1 conglomerate, that there is a high table, all overseeing committee) 1. They also control Russia, 2. They do not control Russia, in which case they failed and are not omnipotent (able to control everything i.e. socio-econo-political) and II (part two conglomerate, that there is not a high table, there is not an all overseeing committee)) All of the world happenings and current happenings are happening ‘pro bono'(as it happened) i.e. in ancient times athens, alexandria, Peloponnesia, bactria were the predominant power in a particular time period and rise and fall were ‘pro bono'(as it happened). What riles me(an armchair wordbytologist or wordbytologist with a cup of coffee on the arm of the chair where I am sitting or a coffeelogist) is that what I am is what I am. There were reports of human trafficking from all over world to the yougoslavs mostly for prostitution, who was the white knight here? US? Grey knight? RF? Dirty grey knight? EU? Everyone played that game, for what? geopolitical gains? politician constituency gains? what? The US professes to be the white knight? Is it so? The RF professes to be the grey knight? Is it so? The EU professes to be the white knight? Is it so? However being from the Indian subcontinent I have to say my words of thanks to the Anglo-saxons, being from the non-monster side (you have to know Indian history to know who were/are the real monsters were/are), they broke the yokehood. It is thanks to them that I even know how to read and write. Similarly in Tibet there was serfdom, from outside it seemed like sangri-la all peace and whatever, China broke that yokehood. So don’t be offended if I say that I do not think there are no white knights, you have yourself to become knoghts. What codes you will bind yourself to, that you decide yourself. To summarise
1. Atrocities on humankind has happened in modern times (after 1945).
2. Things are happening as per the wishes of the uber hans, jews, mancare hus, khazars, or they are not
3. Everyone is playing the white knight
4. There are no white knights
5. RF is playing the grey knight
6. The Anglo-saxons, Bolsheviks, CCP had been instrumental in demolishing serfhood
7. For what? A new kind of serfhood?
8. Are 99% of humankind only fit for serfhood?
9. Are Ukrainians this much stupid? Or they had been had? The Zelensky could only come to power only because the people voted in favour for him in a democracy. Why did they vote for him? Because he promised to bring about reconciliation, and work for peace and progress. Now was he honest? Or the people in Ukraine had been had?
10. Related to the previous point, are people ready to sleep with evil, if at first glance it seems evil will not becolour them
11. Related to point 9, does Zelensky know he is a stooge?
12. Related to point 11, I had once seen an “hagar the horrible” comic strip where Hagar advises his young son Hamlet to become a ‘civil servant/politician/public servant’ because they work tirelessly for the greater good, puts country/community before self, and retires wealthy.
13. Related to point 12, What country/community Zelensky is promoting?
14. Related to point 12, If Zelensky is an stooge, how is he benefitting? To retire wealthy, he has to ensure that a part of the money in circulation gets in his pocket/account.
15. Related to point 14, the economy of Ukraine is in shambles. So almost no chance of percentage of state revenue transferring to his pocket. I may be wrong. Please point that out with actual factual numbers. That this much was the collection, these were the expenditures, and these expenditures are all traceable.
16. Related to point 14, Western support is coming in, but most of these are in the form of weapons. So less workspace for Zelensky (assuming he has some say).
17. Related to point 16, If western support is in the form money, how will Zelensky(assuming he can do it) be able to pocket it?
18. Related to point 16, If western support is in the form weapons, how will Zelensky(assuming he can do it) be able to profit from it? (Question? by selling it on the black market? How can he ensure he gets a cut from selling weapons?)
19. Is this a plan of the super puppeteers to get arms to the people they want serious arms to have?
20. It seems that Zelensky is not a born politician. It seems when he got elected with false promises(promise to bring about reconciliation, work for peace and progress), he was a stooge of US stooges. Now is he a stooge once/twice/thrice/further removed? Or is he a stooge primero numero uno?
21. What cut (percentage) is he getting if he was ‘primero numero uno’ stooge, or stooge once/twice/thrice/further removed?
22. Would you rather be a Zelensky, getting some cut (percentage) getting a minuscule amount if you are a peripheral stooge(as far as cuts are concerned) or a heftier cut if you are primo stooge. The point is making false promises to get a cut.
23. I only think about, (Related to point 22, and point10) ordinary ukrainian citizens(not from the eastern parts), why did they agree to go with Zelensky’s masters? Did the ordinary ukrainian citizens(from the western parts) had been had? Or had they thought of the evil? The evil spares us, and brings ruins only on our enemies? ???Our enemies are the easterns??? Do they think of their eastern people only as enemies? What do they want? [Easterns sprinkling water on the water on the toothbrush before putting toothpaste? putting toothpaste on the toothbrush before sprinkling water?] Or some little differences exsted before, others/outsiders expanded on it and they chose to go along with it? Thinking evil will not touch them?
24. Related to point 23, is it a bridge too far?
25. This is directly addressed to the zionists or whatever, [one conspiracy theory being that annihilating all other people so that they can not harm our people], who are your people? will not one group of your people not harm another group of your people, other people present or not present/not existent?
26. Forgive me my grammar. After all I am a barfly.
N.B. Please give me no crap that politicians work only for the common public good.

Posted by: gingling | Dec 10 2022 23:24 utc | 323

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 10 2022 2:47 utc | 184
Karlof1 – shan’t forget our exchange. You get to the root of it.
Why is it that we give our votes, or even our tacit support, to people so crooked we wouldn’t even have them in the house? The Merkels and Scholz’s, the Macrons and Johnsons, are so morally dubious and yet we let such people run our countries.
Not even competent crooks. I think your Bastiat quote says it all. Wish it didn’t.

Posted by: English Outsider | Dec 10 2022 23:51 utc | 324

Very much appreciate the article, even the bits I don’t agree with (like Merkel somehow not being dumb as Bohnenstroh). Also very much appreciate the discussion, so much to take in and consider. Thanks everyone, thanks B!
Just one remark on the actual topic.
German foreign policy under Merkel (2005-21) wasn’t conceived by Merkel, not a single bit of it.
It wasn’t conceived by her many Foreign Ministers (Steinmeier/Westerwelle/Steinmeier/Gabriel/Maas) either.
It also wasn’t conceived by the BundesprĂ€sident (Köhler/Wulff/Gauck/Steinmeier).
They each had their part in carrying it out, sure. But they’re not the ones who conceived it and set crucial developments in motion.
Even Steinmeier, who can be seen as Merkel’s worst partner in crime, is just a buffoon doing other people’s work.
German foreign policy under Merkel was conceived to a very large extent by one man alone – her foreign policy and security “adviser” Christoph Heusgen. I’d like to call him “The curly-haired Lizard King”. He looks like a lizard, but what’s more, he’s got as much qualms about foreign policy as a lizard eyeing some unsuspecting insect. None whatsoever. But in his case, it’s not about qualms regarding the death of a single insect, but qualms regarding the death of whole nations.
Being at the forefront in eliminating the nation of Syria was his brainchild.
Being at the forefront in eliminating the nation of Venezuela was his brainchild.
Being at the forefront in eliminating the nation of Russia was his brainchild.
All the while wiping his lizard ass with the German constitution which, in spirit as well as dictum, proscribes a peaceful and neighborly foreign policy, for reasons we all know too well. “Wir sind wieder wer!” must be his personal motto.
He personates the Atlanticist Deep State. He hosted each and every US and British ambassador in private. He directly colluded with the likes of CIA lizard Jeffrey Feltman (Thierry Meyssan wrote about this at length). Instead of giving lectures and running the Munich Security Conference he should be rotting behind bars, in some institution for the criminally insane. I’ll take every bet that he would score very high in a personality test for psychopaths/sociopaths.
He transformed German foreign policy towards aggression, hegemony, revisionism, revanchism, destructiveness, and chauvinism. Merkel, being the StrongWomanℱ that she is, just went along with it, mindless and uncritical, like it’s the most normal thing in the world to do.
Against this background, Minsk was just something for the European bigwigs like Merkel, Steinmeier etc. to play with – to fool themselves, the general public and, of course, the Russians.
As to why these interviews now – I have no idea. It can’t be because of any future role she might play. She’s done, health-wise too. Just take a look at her somewhere. By the way, so is her husband – all sorts of health issues and deteriorating very quickly. Looks to me like they didn’t get the saline…

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Dec 11 2022 0:32 utc | 325


Donbas, which under Russian influence, broke away

Nonsense. Donbas declared independence in 2019 when Ukraine did, when ussr broke up. Russia was in no position to influence anything. When they had recovered they used their influence, first thru Minsk, then as recently as march 2022, to get Donbas to stay with Ukraine, albeit with some autonomy. Russia only intervened when Ukraine was about to attack Donbas with full army, not just the daily bombardment that killed maybe 14k civvies.
Imo row is well aware of the history, explaining why so few support the western warmongers.
Regarding merkel
 her lying now to shield her efforts to avoid this war then is a reasonable position. But merkel and putin are real political warriors that imo understand each other. The current lie makes russia’s actions look quite reasonable to row, I.e. the west were never operating in good faith, no matter that merkel was. This makes not negotiating with the west when Russia clearly gets the upper hand both logical and necessary to row
 there’s clearly nobody to negotiate with. I see this as not only merkel getting her own back for being attacked for trying to avoid war but also intentionally helping putin with optics.

Posted by: John k | Dec 11 2022 2:21 utc | 326

This thought struck me as well within five minutes of hearing her words.
For people who don’t believe she would have said this to save her reputation, what do you think George W Bush would do if some new fact came to light and his presidency was accused of being the most white supremacist presidency since Trumans, but he could just say a little lie that nobody could check up on which would instead show that his presidency was in fact very anti-white supremacy
Do you think Bush would say that lie, having in mind that being a white supremacist would seem to forever destroy his legacy with the people who now regard him as a beacon of “decency” and having in mind his known opinion that, as he has said or written, the worst time of his presidency was when he was accused of being a racist (I think it may have been in regards to Katrina).
Merkel is in exactly the same situation and both are cuckservatives very worried about mainstream opinion about them, so her lying here makes perfect sense (Especially given facts known about Nordstream and so on).

Posted by: European_Revival | Dec 11 2022 7:18 utc | 327

I think Merkel had never good intentions
Not for the Germans and definitely not for Russia
This evil witch is a lot worse than people can even imagine
She has a deep seated hate of Germany and should be tried for treason
Just look at this video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9t5fH_ywo_g
You can see the disgust in her face
A very good video on the subject I find comes from Emil Cosman
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ewH0Mmu9J74
No Merkel has no good intentions and never ever had

Posted by: MikeBa | Dec 11 2022 10:44 utc | 328

Don’t “onion” Ukrainians for they can take it as manual
https://t.me/Z_BOEV_LIST_Z/10325
Video: allegedly AFU’s tank with welded latches

Posted by: Arioch | Dec 11 2022 13:05 utc | 329

This from an Al Jazeera article in June

Merkel argued that the 2014-2015 Minsk peace agreements, seen at the time as the best way to end the fighting in eastern Ukraine between pro-Russian separatists and Ukrainian soldiers, had “brought some calm” and given Ukraine time to develop as a democracy and strengthen its military, she said.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/8/nothing-to-apologise-for-merkel-defends-russia-legacy
I know the same point was widely discussed at the time. I am baffled by the pretense that this is something new. It is as if the west has to periodically remind the public that it is completely corrupt and immoral.

Posted by: jared | Dec 11 2022 13:09 utc | 330

Basically, Merkle is having to justify the conduct of constructive and humanitarian oriented dialog with Russia. So without claiming intent, she points to the “benefits”.
She is less than little Bush.

Posted by: jared | Dec 11 2022 13:21 utc | 331

So it seems that Merkle/Germany is under great pressure to convince that she is not pro-Russia.

Posted by: jared | Dec 11 2022 13:39 utc | 332

@Posted by: Stonebird | Dec 10 2022 8:46 utc | 226

That Merkel’s “confession” has given Putin an “out” if he wants to take it. The SMO was justified by the build-up of NATO during the “Minsk II” period.
It was NOT an invasion but a reaction.
So all the MSM blurb about an “unwarranted invasion” is suddenly shown to be wrong. Putin had a reason, Merkel said so.

Thats it. Thank you.

Posted by: jared | Dec 11 2022 13:57 utc | 333

Posted by: MikeBa | Dec 11 2022 10:44 utc | 328
Someone wrote under the video you linked that in Germany it is frowned on to show too much national price, flag waving. Well have a look at this angle of the same situation !!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPdHBW9L1cA
Maybe Merkel is trying to pretend that she is not in Germany. As I don’t live in Germany, I can only guess what is motivating her to do what she did. She definitely has something hardwired in her head to react in such a way.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 11 2022 14:20 utc | 334

English Outsider 324
“Why is it that we give our votes, or even our tacit support, to people so crooked we wouldn’t even have them in the house? The Merkels and Scholz’s, the Macrons and Johnsons, are so morally dubious and yet we let such people run our countries.”
EO, with respect, ‘you’ guys give your votes and support simply, because you are bribed!! For those living in the emperial lands, or former emperial land (as in your case), you are the beneficiaries of the crumbs of your rubber barons and their colonial projects. So, inadvertedly you are supporting them to maintain your living standars. Perhaps when things get a bit harsher, the desire to change maybe more relevant…
respectfully, btw, you are one of the few posters I follow here and previously in that other blog run amok lately!!!

Posted by: Rd | Dec 11 2022 14:48 utc | 335

Great article B!
Important nations don’t hold high profile negotiations for years as a deception. Anyone who claims they do need to read up on what diplomacy is, how it’s done and why it’s done. Germany and France even tried to stop the war by last minute shuttle diplomacy, remember?
Minsk wasn’t implemented because a nation or two that weren’t parties to the negotiations stopped it. Those same nations later blew up North Stream.
As to why Merkel is doing this I think the answer is quite simple: she is only 68 years old. That means she has about a decade of cosy and profitable think tanking left. Given that she can realign with the current narrative, of course.

Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Dec 11 2022 18:34 utc | 336

Again, in “realpolitik” the concept of “trust” is irrelevant, it is just a propaganda talking point for the gullibles of the “home front” (Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 9 2022 23:03 utc | 109: «”rhetoric”. Old Vlad the Wily is playing ’em like a Stradivarius.»).
What matters is whether the concessions of one side continue to be balanced by the concessions of the other side.
Posted by: Blissex | Dec 9 2022 23:58 utc | 130
So ‘realpolitic’ as embodied in the DNA of the US financial-coporate-military Empire is the masterful exercise of the art, science and machinery of power and ‘interests’ as if born to it, all the depth of vision of a child, forever knocking over all the furniture or strangling the kitten then asking for a treat.
Jesus H Christ.

Posted by: Tom Edwards | Dec 12 2022 9:32 utc | 337

… foreign policy and security “adviser” Christoph Heusgen. I’d like to call him “The curly-haired Lizard King”. He looks like a lizard, but what’s more, he’s got as much qualms about foreign policy as a lizard eyeing some unsuspecting insect. None whatsoever. But in his case, it’s not about qualms regarding the death of a single insect, but qualms regarding the death of whole nations.
Being at the forefront in eliminating the nation of Syria was his brainchild.
Being at the forefront in eliminating the nation of Venezuela was his brainchild.
Being at the forefront in eliminating the nation of Russia was his brainchild.
All the while wiping his lizard ass with the German constitution which, in spirit as well as dictum, proscribes a peaceful and neighborly foreign policy, for reasons we all know too well. “Wir sind wieder wer!” must be his personal motto.
He personates the Atlanticist Deep State. He hosted each and every US and British ambassador in private. …
Scotch Bingeington | Dec 11 2022 0:32 utc | 325
My first quibble is that “parenthood” of policies against Syria, Venezuela, Nicaragua etc. is strangely attributed here. Was a German security advisor in control of the Atlanticist Deep State, or just a local coordinator? Was he brainwashing “each and every US and UK ambassador”?

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 12 2022 15:45 utc | 338

“Her answer with regards to Nord Stream 2 makes no sense if she, at the same time that Nord Stream 2 was being built, had intentionally prepared Ukraine for war.”
The West expected Russia to crumble within three months after the sanctions were announced and Russian foreign reserves were frozen. The gas would have flowed again after a Western compliant government was installed in the Kremlin. That is why no gas contingencies were made by the EU before the sanctions. The West knew exactly when Russia would launch into Donbass, because they had planned the provocation.

Posted by: Karl Friedrich | Dec 12 2022 16:30 utc | 339

Scotch Bingeington | Dec 11 2022 0:32 utc | 325
Well you piqued my curiosity as to who this “lizard” Christoph Heusgen was. Can’t say I have done an exhausted research on him but a simple trip to Wiki presented an interesting moment in his life. It is stated,
“During his high school years, he spent a year as an exchange student at Western Reserve Academy, a boarding school in Hudson, Ohio.”
My simple mind tells me that there must have been a very special reason why young Heusgen was sent 6,600 km to this particular private school when so many other were available much closer to home. It might have been to better learn English, but even this by itself seems like a weak reason. Obvious only his family knows, but lets not give up. Wiki tells us a bit about the famous people who went there. Here’s a few,
– Neel Kashkari ’91 — Head of the U.S. Office of Financial Stability, assistant secretary of the Treasury, former vice president at Goldman Sachs, republican candidate for California Governor in 2014
– Oliver Everett ’62 — Royal librarian to Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom
– Daniel W. Christman ’61 — Former assistant to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, former superintendent of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point; current senior vice president for international affairs for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce
– Ted Gup ’68 — Author of
The Book of Honor: Covert Lives and Classified Deaths at the CIA
Nation of Secrets 2007
A Secret Gift 2010
– James Ellsworth† 1868 — Coal mine owner, banker
– James L. Knight ’29 — Newspaperman and philanthropist, founder of Knight Ridder newspaper group
– William D. Perez ’65 — CEO of Wm. Wrigley Jr. Company, former CEO of Nike, Inc.
Is it an incubator for people with a special mission in life ?
No easy way to answer this question.
The Academy has very close historical ties to a very special University in its immediate neighborhood called Case Western Reserve University.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Case_Western_Reserve_University_people

Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 12 2022 17:44 utc | 340

I will expand a bit on Mr. Heusgen as pertaining to my comment #340
From 2013 Frankfurter Allgemeine article

A “serious breach of trust” between the government headquarters in Washington and Berlin – and probably also between Barack Obama and Angela Merkel personally – needs to be repaired. The chancellor could not leave the task of overcoming this crisis to GĂŒnter Heiss, the secret service coordinator who had also been sent to Washington.
…..
Heusgen is not a hothead. The Rhinelander, who was born in DĂŒsseldorf in 1955, has a thoroughly analytical approach to politics – padded with a friendly portrayal of his penchant for irony. The formula “Eavesdropping among friends is not possible” was already being used in the summer, when the German services were still spreading “Nothing has been proven” about the spying operations.
Heusgen and his American interlocutors had prepared the phone call a week ago, during which the Chancellor personally complained to Obama. It must have been a balancing act between clarity and the will not to smash even more china in the bilateral relationship. Experience and personal knowledge help to cope with this.

From a 2017 article
https://www.politico.eu/article/christoph-heusgen-german-transatlanticist-tasked-with-tackling-donald-trump-angela-merkel-chief-foreign-policy-adviser/

Even after Germany failed to secure the “no-spy agreement” it had been seeking with Washington, Heusgen advised Merkel to accept an invitation to the U.S. and accentuate the positive aspects of the transatlantic relationship.
“We should make sure that your trip provides a positive impulse for the future of the transatlantic relationship and communicates clearly that the NSA is just one subject among many,” he and his colleagues wrote in a memo to Merkel in early 2014.
The strategy worked.
“The affection he has for the U.S. doesn’t mean he’s uncritical of American actions, but it gives him an understanding of where policy and perceptions are coming from,” said Donfried, who now heads the Washington-based German Marshall Fund of the United States, a think tank.
Germans may be uneasy about U.S. spying, but their view of the U.S. has improved in recent years. Obama took pains to reassure Germans over surveillance, something Heusgen had pressured the administration to do in the aftermath of the revelations.
Obama has repeatedly hailed his relationship with Merkel, describing it as the closest one he had with any foreign leader.

Ha ha ha …. sounds like Heusgen was sent to DC to find out what dirt the NSA had on Merkel and what was the price for keeping it “secure”.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 12 2022 18:06 utc | 341

“Whereas the US and NATO transferred money and arms to insurgents leading up to the Maidan coup,
Whereas the US and NATO were training the insurgents in preparation for the coup and subsequent war (e.g. ELINT training),
Whereas the US and NATO were the puppeteers of the Maidan coup and subsequent restructuring of the new government which was known to desire civil war,
Whereas Poroshenko called the eastern Ukrainians “terrorists” because they organized referenda to appeal, by law, for greater autonomy as continued members of Ukraine,
Whereas “Death to Russians” and “Hang the Russians” could be heard in parades in Kiev,
Whereas “death to Russians” was obviously government policy since the national guard was sent in APCs, tanks, and ground attack aircraft to attack the eastern Ukrainian civilian population,
I hoped to prevent a war that was already being executed by signing an agreement with unscrupulous characters to mind the law they were already breaking.”

So I guess the point, here, is to say Merkel is a moron, or that she was being idealistic, or…?

Posted by: Caleb | Dec 12 2022 19:34 utc | 342

Chas – https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/12/minsk-ii-was-agreed-on-to-arm-ukraine-did-merkel-really-say-that.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef02af1c933f01200d#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef02af1c933f01200d
That was old news, four years ago. Merkel knew NSA was eavesdropping on her communications at least as early as 2003 when the US was trying to get a tally of who was going to vote in favor of an invasion into Iraq.

Posted by: Caleb | Dec 12 2022 20:00 utc | 343

Lie about peace do you could start a war/

Posted by: richardprofumo | Dec 15 2022 0:55 utc | 344