Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 13, 2022
When False Claims Are News – Russia, India, Nukes

A few days ago a small news item about India and Russia was issued that made some anti-Russian/pro-Indian scribes very happy:

India’s Maddening Russia Policy Isn’t as Bad as Washington ThinksForeign Policy, Dec 9
India upholds the rules-based, Western-led international order—but in its own way.

Modi is also skipping an annual summit with Putin, reportedly over the latter’s threats to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine.

That claim sounded strange to me. The author of the FP piece  is Derek Grossman "a senior defense analyst at the Rand Corp., an adjunct professor at the University of Southern California, and a former daily intelligence briefer to the U.S. assistant secretary of defense for Asian and Pacific security affairs."

Hmm. The link he gives goes to a Bloomberg piece:

Modi to Skip Annual Putin Summit Over Ukraine Nuke Threats

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi won’t be holding an annual in-person summit with Vladimir Putin after the Russian president threatened to use nuclear weapons in the war in Ukraine, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

The relationship between India and Russia remains strong but trumpeting the friendship at this point may not be beneficial for Modi, said a senior official with knowledge of the matter, who asked not to be named due to the sensitivity of the issue.

Putin had never threatened to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine or anywhere:

Note that Putin does not mention Russia's nuclear weapons. He instead empathizes that Russia has new 'different' weapons that are 'more modern' than those of the 'West'. He means hypersonic missiles which can avoid 'western' air defenses and hit decision centers in Brussels, London and Washington even without nuclear warheads.

All the war mongering talk and reports about Russia's alleged threat of nuclear weapon use in Ukraine is totally unfounded. That 'western' media suddenly engage in it shows that it is part of a well directed propaganda campaign.

It is an invention of U.S. propaganda. It is unlikely that the Indian government has fallen for it. So who then made Bloomberg replay that nonsense?

Note that while the Bloomberg report was written by its correspondent in India the nationality of its sources is not given. There are in fact two distinct sources: "people with knowledge of the matter" and "a senior official with knowledge of the matter". The 'nuclear' issue seems to have come from the first 'people' source while the 'official' second source only gives a general picture of Modi's potential motivation.

In an updated version of the piece, which kept the lede unchanged, Russian officials rejected the whole story:

“It won’t be this year,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said of prospects for a Putin-Modi summit, the state-run Tass news service reported later Friday.

India’s decision was clear at a regional summit held in September in Uzbekistan, when Modi urged Putin to seek peace in Ukraine, said a Russian official familiar with the preparations, who asked not to be identified to discuss matters that aren’t public.

There had already been an Indian Russian summit at the side of the Uzbekistan meeting and no further summit was necessary.

In a Reuters piece an Indian source also rejected the claim:

No Modi-Putin summit this year after they met in September- Indian govt source

The government source, who declined to be named citing the sensitivity of the matter, said the decision not to hold a summit was taken much earlier and that the nuclear angle was not a factor.

Modi and Putin met on the sidelines of a regional security bloc summit in Uzbekistan in September and have spoken on the phone a number of times this year, including on the subject of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

The Indian Economic Times also debunked the Bloomberg claim:

India-Russia annual summit could not occur due to scheduling issues

The annual India Russia Summit could not happen this year due to scheduling issues, according to highly placed sources who dismissed reports of summit being postponed due to threat of nuclear war in Ukraine.

Sources dismissed Western media reports that Russian President's “nuclear threat” had any role to play in India-Russia Summit not happening in December.

The decision that the summit will not take place due to scheduling issues was taken months ago, sources said.

Relations between India and Russia are lively and excellent:

ET has learnt senior Russian functionaries could visit India in near future to discuss contours of the partnership. Last December the Russian President had travelled to India for the annual summit.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Russian President Vladimir Putin had spoken several times over phone this year and the two met in Samarkand in September to give push to strategic partnership.

At the September meeting considerable time was devoted to Russian fertiliser exports to India to meet demands of local farmers.

Modi and Putin also discussed energy ties (oil & gas) besides coal, coking & other investments in each other’s country. The two leaders had also discussed predictability of supply of key commodities to India.

Later in November Foreign Minister S Jaishankar travelled to Moscow with a intra Ministerial delegation to push economic partnership. Earlier the NSA had travelled to Moscow with a intra Ministerial delegation to push economic partnership. Earlier the NSA had travelled to Moscow.

India had withstood Western huge to take sides in the Ukraine conflict and Russia is now India’s biggest oil supplier. Bilateral trade has jumped manifold this year.

The original Bloomberg claim is thereby completely debunked. But the piece is still up and without any correction. The "people with knowledge of the matter" it cited to inject the nuke stuff were likely either from the U.S. or Britain.

Neither the Indian nor the Russian side had planned for another summit this year. They have excellent relations and the nuke stuff was just outright nonsense.

That RAND experts, who write strategic plans for the Pentagon, fall for such obvious propaganda is dangerous.

Comments

In the geopolitics chess board Russians are smarter than Indians.

Posted by: San | Dec 13 2022 16:57 utc | 1

Nothing on India Punchline about it. Take out the space and add .com.

Posted by: paxmark1 | Dec 13 2022 17:02 utc | 2

If this is level the US has sunk to.
Making stories up about Russia and India.
Is say it beggar’s belief but that’s not true.

Posted by: jpc | Dec 13 2022 17:03 utc | 3

Yet another attempt to put a stick in the pokes of the wheel that’s Russia/India relations. The RIC is a very strong triad that the Empire will put lots of destabilization efforts, this being a very poor one. IMO, many of these “news” stories are concocted to sooth the minds of those writing them as they have no other relation to reality.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 13 2022 17:04 utc | 4

I’d say it beggar’s belief.

Posted by: jpc | Dec 13 2022 17:04 utc | 5

Surprising we in India never heard about this. India has complex role in facilitating Russia dealing with U. S. But you have to know history. USSR terms in 1972 support of India war was to finish it quick. India provided same condition in SCO and right after came news of mobilization. India has own business to manage with China and need everyone help and support and as such not looking to antagonize anyone. Everything going good and so need to ruffle feathers of anyone. Leaders of India care about its development and have least interest in virtue signaling or sermonizing.

Posted by: Vikram C | Dec 13 2022 17:06 utc | 6

Well I hate to “nit pick “ but when Putin says:
, we will certainly make use of all weapon systems available to us. This is not a bluff.
Putin is OBVIOUSLY including Nukes in that equation. To say he is not is laughable

Posted by: Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 17:10 utc | 7

> That RAND experts, who write strategic plans for the Pentagon, fall for such obvious propaganda is dangerous.
They’re not falling for propaganda, they are deliberately creating and spreading propaganda.

Posted by: JohnAdam | Dec 13 2022 17:12 utc | 8

Boomberg – enough said.

Posted by: ? | Dec 13 2022 17:20 utc | 9

poor old Derek. Georgetown for his MA and sponsored by Langley no doubt. The Jesuits certainly let their college in DC get absorbed into the Swamp. It gets so
boring seeing all these poor Politicians Sci Majors from places like Michigan having to get into Georgetown to find gainful sinecures on the MIC budget peddling prepared scripts to media outlets and gullible readers.
They are everywhere nowadays – bushy-tailed little post-grads desperate for a mortgage looking to sell themselves to a political party or defence contractor think tank so they can eat canapés and drink cocktails before coming home to suburban home with spouse employed in think tankery or media and thinking of what act of prostitution will get junior into the right prep school.

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Dec 13 2022 17:38 utc | 10

Makes one wonder if the claim of a US fusion breakthrough is yet another example of Empire’s increasingly fantastical projections of the world and itself.

Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 13 2022 17:45 utc | 11

Half of Bloomberg’s on-camera talent seems to hail from India, so of course this must be true /sarc

Posted by: Cato the Uncensored | Dec 13 2022 17:46 utc | 12

Putin is OBVIOUSLY including Nukes in that equation. To say he is not is laughable
Posted by: Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 17:10 utc | 7
Has he said this in the context of Ukrainian operation? No. He was referring to a direct NATO intervention.

Posted by: RB | Dec 13 2022 17:46 utc | 13

“…Putin is OBVIOUSLY including Nukes in that equation. To say he is not is laughable.”
Roadblock@7
The Russian government has specifically stated that it has no intention of using nuclear weapons in Ukraine, and will only use them if threatened with nuclear weapons by NATO.
The Soviet Union and Russia have made it abundantly clear that they will not use nuclear weapons to attack other states. The United States had reached agreement on this and other matters with Russia, agreements made initially with the USSR, but the US, sensing that it had become militarily superior, denounced these agreements.
It is not funny but it is undeniable that the US has made the pace, consistently, in forcing other countries to arm themselves in defence of imperialist aggression.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2022 17:47 utc | 14

Paul Greenwood@10
There’s a novel in there somewhere, maybe a series like the Forsyte Saga.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2022 17:50 utc | 15

Does anyone have an idea what the Russians refer to when they talk about weapons based on ‘new principles’? Nukes are not new so it must be something completely different.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 13 2022 17:53 utc | 16

Posted by: JohnAdam | Dec 13 2022 17:12 utc | 8
Just what I was going to say.
Posted by: Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 17:10 utc | 7
Not necessarily. As Martyanov points out frequently, Russia can use its hypersonic weapons with conventional warheads in a strategic manner to “re-arrange the stones” in Brussels or Washington. More likely, they can be used to destroy NATO assets anywhere in Europe and the surrounding seas. No nukes required.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 13 2022 17:53 utc | 17

Making stuff up has long been a hallmark of US dogma. Its how the initiated literally every conflict they have been involved with since they first contacted the Native Chiefs. Fake an insult and act aggressively to avenge it.

Posted by: DaVinci | Dec 13 2022 17:54 utc | 18

Hint: if authors surname ends with “man”, “berg”, “stein” or similar, you can be pretty sure it is propaganda of lowest form.

Posted by: Abe | Dec 13 2022 18:03 utc | 19

@8
That RAND experts, who write strategic plans for the Pentagon, fall for such obvious propaganda is dangerous.
They’re not falling for propaganda, they are deliberately creating and spreading propaganda.

Posted by: JohnAdam | Dec 13 2022 17:12 utc | 8
Precisely. Anything to shift opinion to fit the narrative of actions planned decades ago. I assume Bernard has figured this out and just being non-conspiritorial

Posted by: NJH | Dec 13 2022 18:23 utc | 20

Skimming at Google News everyday since beginning of Russian invasion, it’s clear that the US MSM is pure propaganda without even a semblance of journalistic integrity. The news is ridiculously biased, shaped, and agenda-setting beyond anything the Russians can dream of. Unsurprisingly, the Russians indulge in and assist, through RT, the US’s worst traits of keeping news superficial, obliquely partisan, and emotionally overloaded, while avoiding substantive views on any topic that pertains to how ordinary people take live. I see a pervasive and severe tic of the MSM intense focus on every public gesture of Zelensky, devoid of any immediate context to his rule—its like Ukraine is a country of one man tending an enormous mink farm, juxtaposed against the total demonization of Putin and dismissal of Russia as a pit into which oligarchs and reactionaries fall and are buried. Are there deeper analysis and insights behind US MSM paywalls? If so this is carefully guarded and kept far away from general public. Based on simple web searches of west-facing Russian language news, the Googlez suggest Russian’s press is even worse than the US. Reading between the beats of the drums, I’ve concluded that the welfare of ordinary people is totally subordinated to a masthead robot political intelligentsia of big industry, with The People regarded as cattle in various degrees of cow-eyed stupor and monkey brained reflexes towards opportunity. The news is void of any collective / federated community voices and concerns. The US is actively crushing the last vestiges of labour to the expediencies of the machine. Every MSM outlet traffics in fantasy events designed for individual consumption to steer opinion towards the ghostly and wavering business agendas of vested political interests. In the midst of the endless diatribes there’s a pathological absence (Apple wants to spell-correct “absence” into “Adsense”) of account of actual lived collective experience, as if the literal is no longer available, nor even possible. Here at MOA is just as bad as anywhere, with millions of words from 100s of armchairs totally disconnected from the livelihoods and needs of the people making war and affected by it. For “b” to be picking on one or the other contradiction in the veiled revelations in the press-released if elite political functionaries is a head-up-the-ass regard for reality. Add GPT-3 to this crazy media circus and all we have left are collective hallucinations. There’s a cynical refrain of hope here that imperialism will collapse under the discontinuities of hallucinatory fantasy, but because of the cynicism the hope contains no alternatives. To me it looks more like everyone can agree that Empires are made of nothing but fantasy but no one here has any interest in fiction. I suggest the more outlandish news gets, the better Empire is working! Here at MOA little pretend Lt. Colonels of Libertalia type into from PCs from their knotty-pine recrooms at the ends lives that never amounted to anything full of numb regret because we have been systematically cut off from community — it’s just a thousand rats and pigeons hitting feed buttons waiting for pellets to drop. In Russia there’s less illusion about the Pavlovian logic of it all, but that awareness is nothing to look forward to! Russia is no bastion of democracy and care for the commonwealth. The best argument for Russia is they’ve seen the west perfect the carceral state beyond Stalin’s wild hoped and they only knows such western advances are the last thing they need, even if they have no idea what life is otherwise about. I give props to my US culture that we can embrace total fantasy as a response to not being able to figure out ordinary life. Even if our fantasies are just kooky substitutes for livelihoods that amount to anything beyond slow death.

Posted by: Arrnon | Dec 13 2022 18:23 utc | 21

Norwegian | Dec 13 2022 17:53 utc | 16
The lasers – first model deployed in 2018 perhaps but also another model appeared early this year. I think that term may also have been used in relation to the Zircon. I think with the lasers or directed energy they have made a breakthrough so the new physical principles mat apply to a few things.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 13 2022 18:27 utc | 22

Paul Greenwood | Dec 13 2022 17:38 utc | 10
____
Thnaks for your insightful and amusing way with words.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Dec 13 2022 18:28 utc | 23

This is a long but clear-headed analysis
https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii137/articles/susan-watkins-five-wars-in-one

Posted by: BostonTom | Dec 13 2022 18:34 utc | 24

Paul Greenwood
You nailed it. As a Gtown grade who turned down 3 recruitment attempts but watched many like my classmate Peter Strozk get recruited, I feel like you were there in the 1980. Little has changed. These people are losers. Fortunately they are getting vaxxed up the kaboose.
Housing prices may fall yet.
Please post daily and often

Posted by: Beltway Bandit | Dec 13 2022 18:35 utc | 25

Roadblock @7
“Putin is OBVIOUSLY including Nukes in that equation. To say he is not is laughable.”
No what’s laughable is that you don’t know the difference between a general statement and a specific one. That’s whats laughable.

Posted by: Lawrence Miller | Dec 13 2022 18:36 utc | 26

Arrnon | Dec 13 2022 18:23 utc | 21
As far as I am aware, b doesn’t charge extra if you insert a paragraph break (or 7) in your wall of text.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 13 2022 18:37 utc | 27

It is my understanding that Russia has done much to weaponize the work of Nickola Tesla.

Posted by: a machinist | Dec 13 2022 18:38 utc | 28

I think it’s a wise decision of Putin not to hold the press conference this year.
Putin appearing live on tv for 4 hours would have been an invitation to the US to do something scandalous during the boardcast.
But with that opportunity gone, I assume the US will do something outrageous on Christmas, or perhaps New Year, when people are distracted.

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 13 2022 18:39 utc | 29

Does anyone have an idea what the Russians refer to when they talk about weapons based on ‘new principles’? Nukes are not new so it must be something completely different.
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 13 2022 17:53 utc | 16

That phrasing was used by Putin years ago when he presented the hypersonics, the nuclear powered missiles (still in development), the new lasers (so secret there’s no public info on specs even today, only a photo) and I don’t remember what else. I’m sure the main idea is modern weapons. MSM said at the time, quoting “experts”, that those weapons are CGI, not real, can’t exist.
Many years later, in 2022, US discovered hypersonics are real but at only Mach 5 and in a prototype without any real footage or specs (ballistic or guided, range). Kim is laughing now.

Posted by: rk | Dec 13 2022 18:42 utc | 30

Curiously absent from today’s online NYTs home page: The word “Ukraine” or any reference whatsoever to same. What? No fake news about Russian torture chambers, rape rooms, mass murder of civilians or secret mass graves?

Posted by: nwwoods | Dec 13 2022 18:44 utc | 31

It is my understanding that Russia has done much to weaponize the work of Nickola Tesla.
Posted by: a machinist | Dec 13 2022 18:38 utc | 28

Got a link?
And, lol @ 27

Posted by: Forest | Dec 13 2022 18:48 utc | 32

@Peter AU1 | Dec 13 2022 18:27 utc | 22
Could be

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 13 2022 18:50 utc | 33

In related news, a bear named Mishka is being questioned by authorities about the disappearance of a little girl named Masha. “I don’t know where she is. Last time I remember seeing her I was trying to take a nap and she kept poking me in the stomach…”

Posted by: Butte Bill | Dec 13 2022 18:57 utc | 34

Lawrence Miller
Putin said:
“The citizens of Russia can rest assured that the territorial integrity of our Motherland, our independence and freedom will be defended – I repeat – by all the systems available to us.”
Now that he has ILLEGALLY annexed the Eastern part of Ukraine and now claims that the territory and the people will be Russian forever. Then it stands reason that if Ukraine starts to overrun that area that Putin might use Nukes!! Where am I wrong? Inquiring minds want to know!!

Posted by: Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 19:05 utc | 35

@Arrnon, #21:

Skimming at Google News everyday since beginning of Russian invasion, it’s clear that the US MSM is pure propaganda without even a semblance of journalistic integrity.

This sums it up concisely and aptly. Thank you.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Dec 13 2022 19:06 utc | 36

Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 19:05 utc | 35
Look, idiotic trolls from Amerika timezone are appearing on multiple topics at the same time. Or the electricity was restored in zombie Ukraine?

Posted by: rk | Dec 13 2022 19:07 utc | 37

@Norwegian
With respect to ‘weapons based on new principles’: Putin could be referring to various directed energy weapons capable of destroying comms and/or surveillance satellites. Another weapon system that comes to mind is “wake-homing torpedoes” developed by Russia for which the US and allies have yet to successfully produce a reliable defense, last I heard. Then there is an older Russian tech called Shkval which is a super-cavitating torpedo that is more of an underwater rocket that “flies” under water in a self-generated gas bubble at speeds of up to 230 mph. I understand that they have developed a new, more maneuverable version of the Shval in recent times. Iran apparently also has this tech. One can see how weapons such as this could potentially render America’s much vaunted Navy, upon which it relies to project power, somewhat vulnerable.
There are reputedly various exotic systems such as EMP weapons and microwave weapons and antisatellite missiles, etc.

Posted by: nwwoods | Dec 13 2022 19:10 utc | 38

Melaleuca | Dec 13 2022 18:37 utc | 27
—-
🙂 Still, a great run-on rant!
“Add GPT-3 to this crazy media circus and all we have left are collective hallucinations.” Perhaps the anti-GPT-3 formatting is intentional. Had to look it up (from Wiki-ugh):

Generative Pre-trained Transformer 3 [GPT-3] is an autoregressive language model that uses deep learning to produce human-like text.

OpenAI researchers … warned of GPT-3’s potential dangers and called for research to mitigate risk… David Chalmers, an Australian philosopher, described GPT-3 as “one of the most interesting and important AI systems ever produced.” …The New York Times described GPT-3’s capabilities “as being able to write original prose with fluency equivalent to that of a human.”

The NYT may already using it. We’ve likely seen it here at MoA too. Some of our trolls don’t seem capable of passing a Turing test.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Dec 13 2022 19:11 utc | 39

As it seems, US approves its Patriot system and will be given to Ukraine to protect its remaining infrastructure in the coming days.
Wunderwaffe, 5th in a row, with an excellent opportunity for RF to study its performance, systems and find the countermeasures.
Using this system requires a specialized team of operators, and such a move certainly confirms US boots on the ground.
They cannot sell to us or to RF the other perspective.
I think we can see major escalation very soon, especially with Putin postponing his annual presser for a later time.

Posted by: whirlX | Dec 13 2022 19:18 utc | 40

roadblock (You wish) given the very distinct difference in how Russia “annexes” as opposed to how the west “annexes”. It would appear only a serious no mind would pick the wests way. I mean ACTUAL Geopolitical interests protected w low loss of life = Russia OR Mass murder wrapped up in freedom, lies and plunder = US
It really is a no brainer as to which side considers humanity in their calculations
TLDR fuck off ya clown

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Dec 13 2022 19:23 utc | 41

Abe | Dec 13 2022 18:03 utc | 19
thanks Abraham!

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 13 2022 19:27 utc | 42

Cultists here droning on about secret energy weapons.
Real world, RF army can’t even engage in counter battery fire in the Donbass 9 months later as they don’t have drones, communications, intel, or competent commanders.
The US has announced breakthrough in fusion energy.
Multipolar world is done, stick a fork in it.

Posted by: Moaobserver | Dec 13 2022 19:29 utc | 43

BRICS remain united in bringing Ukraine to heel. First we take Kiev, then Berlin, then London. Subhas Chandra Bose remains the inspiration.
Search comments for “Bose”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7akRWAJeeQ

Posted by: Jensen | Dec 13 2022 19:45 utc | 44

Arrnon | Dec 13 2022 18:23 utc | 21
but russia has weapons based on new principles!
there’s a lot of despair along with the delusion, so there’s a lot of projection about some happy land elsewhere, where leaders care and, like real manly men, they get ‘er done. they follow science and science will save us. just ask Modi, MbS, Bolsonaro, Orban, Meloni, et al, and hear all about the not NWO, not Davos/WEF funded not Great Reset.
but Putin’s the man. like we said of Colin Powell in the US, “he speaks so well.”
speaking of
Cockaigne, here’s some Orff,
if we must insist that “nazis did some good things.”

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 13 2022 19:46 utc | 45

Putin: “The citizens of Russia can rest assured that the territorial integrity of our Motherland, our independence and freedom will be defended – I repeat – by all the systems available to us.”
Now that he has ILLEGALLY [sic] annexed [sic] the Eastern part of Ukraine and now claims that the territory and the people will be Russian forever. Then it stands reason that if Ukraine starts to overrun that area that Putin might use Nukes!! Where am I wrong? Inquiring minds want to know!!

Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 19:05 utc | 35
____
Speedbump, please reference your respondent as above so people can at least try to follow your reasoning.
Putin has expressly stated Russia will NOT use nukes in Ukraine itself, as noted by others above. Why would it irradiate its own neighborhood? Furthermore “territorial integrity”, in context here (and in many of Putin’s related declarations), clearly means existential integrity, not the border line-of-conflict currently in a state of flux — witness recent tactical retreats near Kherson and Kharkov.
Once again, Putin has stated several times that that only if Russia’s very existence is at stake, or in the case of first-strike nuclear attack by the West, will Russia consider using all options in response. Yes, you can infer this to include nukes. Note that Russia’s nuclear arsenal, including delivery vehicles, is superior to the West’s. Note also that the targets of these nukes will not be in Ukraine, but in the West, its decision-making centers, very likely a location near you.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Dec 13 2022 19:53 utc | 46

MOAOBSERVER — what a wishful thinking. But do stick to it. I am deeply curious where this is all heading. Cheering for any of them is not a good idea, None of them are sustainable especially not in modern era, British being the last one, and its demise was in the works since the debt accummulation following Napoleonic wars.
As for fusion experiment, China performed same trick five years ago, many times hotter than sun. And the Chinese, European and now American one cannot be done without Russian invented formula that determines the strength of magnetic ckntaunment of high temperatures. Without it any such heat could not be generated. These are old inventions, and let us see how generating energy actually happens. In fact – for as long as they rely on high temperature, I know it is a false hope. Both Rusdian and Chinese experiments proved that.

Posted by: Bianca | Dec 13 2022 19:54 utc | 47

The amount of lies spewing forth in this time and space are just an extension of previous lies which have shaped and destroyed civilization from time memorial…we just happen to be at the end and the desperation is evident. Sit back and think about those 2 airplanes dropping three WTC buildings and another plane penetrating the Pentagon and destroying the accounting office after the secretary of defense casually mentions trillions in missing defence expenditure….then the war on terror that opened up total government surveillance against the domestic Western population while lying about Niger yellow cake and the destruction of large swaths of the middle East…the smoking gun on the form of a mushroom cloud lie and now the ommision of a mushroom cloud over NATO bases very soon. Empire of lies

Posted by: Joe | Dec 13 2022 20:00 utc | 48

Speedbump, please reference your respondent as above so people can at least try to follow your reasoning.
Doug Hillman, Dec 13,
Thanks for that Doug. I am new to this,as you can all tell, Ha
I will try to do better in the future

Posted by: Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 20:05 utc | 49

Arrnon | Dec 13 2022 18:23 utc | 21
Reading between the beats of the drums, I’ve concluded that the welfare of ordinary people is totally subordinated to a masthead robot political intelligentsia of big industry, with The People regarded as cattle in various degrees of cow-eyed stupor and monkey brained reflexes towards opportunity. The news is void of any collective / federated community voices and concerns. The US is actively crushing the last vestiges of labour to the expediencies of the machine.”
_____
Yup, We’re just human batteries for Skynet’s elite.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Dec 13 2022 20:06 utc | 50

Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 20:05 utc | 49
____
Here’s another example, above. The reason for this is that b often has to do troll-litter cleanup, so comment numbers sometimes change. Name and timestamp do not, so other commenters can at least find the context you’re referring to.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Dec 13 2022 20:15 utc | 51

Ah yes, those wicked evil Anglo Saxons at it again, a lying article by one Grossman. Grossman a name of German Ashkenazi origin.
So the Anglo Saxon Blinken and all the other Anglo Saxons around him have now decided to send Patriot Missiles. Are those missiles even any good?

Posted by: Thim | Dec 13 2022 20:43 utc | 52

@ Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 19:05 utc | 35
You and the MSM have a weird mental condition that seems to prevent you from discerning the difference between a warning and a threat. Nevertheless, despite that incapacity, they are different, which is why we have different words for them.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Dec 13 2022 20:44 utc | 53

The US has announced breakthrough in fusion energy.
Multipolar world is done, stick a fork in it.
Posted by: Moaobserver | Dec 13 2022 19:29 utc | 43

Already! breakthrough in fusion energy season is here again.
Throw another troll on the fire – it’s bloody freezing out there!

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 13 2022 20:56 utc | 54

Multipolar world is done, stick a fork in it.
Posted by: Moaobserver | Dec 13 2022 19:29 utc | 43

Oh no!!! Antarctica has been cancelled by the woke brigade.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 13 2022 21:07 utc | 55

Posted by: Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 17:10 utc | 7
, we will certainly make use of all weapon systems available to us. This is not a bluff.
This is the Russian equivalent of the American:
“All options are on the table”.
But it’s clear this has never necessarily included nukes.
For example, when Obama used the phrase with reference to Syria, nobody inferred the use of nuclear weapons.
You see, language even when precisely used and grammatically accurate, is still incomplete until context and history is applied.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 13 2022 21:09 utc | 56

The US has announced breakthrough in fusion energy.
Multipolar world is done, stick a fork in it.
Posted by: Moaobserver | Dec 13 2022 19:29 utc | 43
Already! breakthrough in fusion energy season is here again.
Throw another troll on the fire – it’s bloody freezing out there!
Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 13 2022 20:56 utc | 54

Meanwhile…. Never mentioned….
RosAtom brought online a reactor specifically designed to burn spent nuclear fuel…
The Chinese brought online 2 Molten Salt – Thorium Fueled reactors
The Chinese brought online 2 pebble bed reactors.
I am of the opinion these two achievements will provide 3 orders of magnitude more energy to humanity than all the fusion experiments together.
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Dec 13 2022 21:10 utc | 57

Arrnon | Dec 13 2022 18:23 utc | 21
As far as I am aware, b doesn’t charge extra if you insert a paragraph break (or 7) in your wall of text.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 13 2022 18:37 utc | 27
I suspect that most people, like myself, just skip those posts.

Posted by: RB | Dec 13 2022 21:11 utc | 58

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 13 2022 20:56 utc | 54
Already! breakthrough in fusion energy season is here again.
It’s year-end and the new year ‘research’funding drives are in full swing!

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 13 2022 21:18 utc | 59

Posted by: Moaobserver | Dec 13 2022 19:29 utc | 43
The US has announced breakthrough in fusion energy.
This morning I too announced a breakthrough in fusion energy.
My wife was not pleased with the resulting odour …
(I suspect the aroma of the US breakthrough will be as ephemeral as my own)

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 13 2022 21:24 utc | 60

Now that he has ILLEGALLY annexed the Eastern part of Ukraine and now claims that the territory and the people will be Russian forever. Then it stands reason that if Ukraine starts to overrun that area that Putin might use Nukes!! Where am I wrong? Inquiring minds want to know!!
Posted by: Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 19:05 utc | 35
They always have been and are Russian. Ukraine tried to forcefully turn them into Ukrainian. The Ukrainian nationalist movement bet on Hitler, so there was no chance that Ukrainian citizens by chance of history would accept this fate.

Posted by: RB | Dec 13 2022 21:26 utc | 61

thanks b… more bullshit propaganda.. it’s endless
@ Vikram C | Dec 13 2022 17:06 utc | 6
it wasn’t meant for an indian audience, but the folks in the usa-canada and etc.. they eat these lies up 24-7… consider yourself lucky..

Posted by: james | Dec 13 2022 21:26 utc | 62

Posted by: Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 19:05 utc | 35
Then it stands reason that if Ukraine starts to overrun that area that Putin might use Nukes!!
No, it doesn’t stand to reason because you’re leaving half the reasoning out.
– Putin has stated clearly that Russia will not use nukes first.
– Russia has indicated in the past that nukes will only be used in an existential crisis to defend to State.
So it stands to reason that all available options will be applied in escalation before the necessity of nuclear weapons is discovered to be the only remaining option.
You’ve also failed to ask *where* Putin would use nukes: would he strike a neighboring state? That’s like pissing in one’s own bathwater.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 13 2022 21:37 utc | 63

They always have been and are Russian. Ukraine tried to forcefully turn them into Ukrainian. The Ukrainian nationalist movement bet on Hitler, so there was no chance that Ukrainian citizens by chance of history would accept this fate.
“The Ukraine” means “The Borderlands”
Ukrainian is a creole of Russian.
There is no such thing as Ukrainian. This entire construct is a NATO construct for the express purpose of back footing the Russians in their own land.
The actions which led to the present, were the timidity of the Russian leadership in the face of NATO aggression…
The only strategem which can frustrate this is for Russia to declare the “Putin Doctrine” namely that Russia is the successor state of the USSR and the Russian Empire, and all the lands of the former Russian Empire/USSR are under the suzeranty of Russia, including the Baltics, Finland, Spitzbergen, and the Stans.
When NATO objects, the correct response is a mass nuclear decapitation strike on all NATO nuc plants, oil refineries, airbases, and naval bases. With the Russians declaring….
“Do you feel lucky punk???” Go ahead and make my day!!”
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Dec 13 2022 21:44 utc | 64

Hint: if authors surname ends with “man”, “berg”, “stein” or similar, you can be pretty sure it is propaganda of lowest form.
Posted by: Abe | Dec 13 2022 18:03 utc | 19
Buy if the name starts with “man”, “berg”, “stein” or similar, you can be pretty sure it is propaganda of highest form.
So Berman is of lowest form, Mannerheim of highest, but cases like Stein or Bergman are hard to classify.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 13 2022 21:59 utc | 65

@ Arrnon | Dec 13 2022 18:23 utc | 21
The abyss yawned.

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 13 2022 22:02 utc | 66

Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 19:05 utc | 35
Got news for ya: LEGAL is DEAD & WE has killed it.

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 13 2022 22:10 utc | 67

Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 17:10 utc | 7
Please state where V.V.P explictly said he would obviously use nuclear weapons in Ukraine:
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/70061
Barflies why is it that the Peanuts in the gallery never actually read what V.V.P. says, they only read what the media says V.V.P says ?

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 13 2022 22:10 utc | 68

The US has announced breakthrough in fusion energy.
Multipolar world is done, stick a fork in it.
Posted by: Moaobserver | Dec 13 2022 19:29 utc | 43

Wonderful. Now all that’s required to build a working reactor that can power a light bulb is to replicate the sun’s gravity.

Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Dec 13 2022 22:28 utc | 69

India has increased imports of oil from Russia.
India and Russia have de-dollarized mutual commercial trade (not a plan in the future but already implemented in september).
India made it’s view on Ukraine clear and Russia accepts that view.
India remains Russia’s chief defense equipment customer.
Trade relations in all other areas hasn’t changed much after February.
India is committed to BRICS and SCO and the de-dollarization campaign (India’s problem country in those groups is China not Russia).
There is no need to have a summit because there isn’t all that much for Putin and Modi to talk about.

Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Dec 13 2022 22:31 utc | 70

Lol noone with half a braincell would use nuclear weapons on your own territories or anywhere close to them. The fact that Russia annexed the territories is yet more reason Russia will not use them in Ukraine.
If Russia were to employ nukes they will deliver them right on London or DC city centers.

Posted by: Comandante | Dec 13 2022 22:37 utc | 71

Not even the craven yellow rag India Today, which had agitated for India to join the invasion of Iraq and which uncritically regurgitates naziganda (such as “Russia is shelling a nuclear power plant occupied by Russia”) has bothered to publish anything about this allegedly cancelled summit.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 13 2022 22:43 utc | 72

had to repost it
The Russian government has specifically stated that it has no intention of using nuclear weapons in Ukraine, and will only use them if threatened with nuclear weapons by NATO.
The Soviet Union and Russia have made it abundantly clear that they will not use nuclear weapons to attack other states. The United States had reached agreement on this and other matters with Russia, agreements made initially with the USSR, but the US, sensing that it had become militarily superior, denounced these agreements.
It is not funny but it is undeniable that the US has made the pace, consistently, in forcing other countries to arm themselves in defence of imperialist aggression.
Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2022 17:47 utc | 14

Posted by: polarbear4 | Dec 13 2022 23:00 utc | 73

I am seeing reports come out today that claims some of the British leadership are admitting to special military operations inside Ukraine at the start of the conflict after the British embassy was evacuated. I had my suspicions considering the WW 2 history I have studied. It’s Britain’s MO and now it seems to be more than a suspicion.

Posted by: Prometheus Defiant | Dec 13 2022 23:03 utc | 74

I looked at the press conference that Klaatu linked and found this statement from Putin.
I see no threat to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine. Maybe some people can’t read.
“The United States has a theory and even practice. They have the concept of a preventive strike in their strategy and other policy documents. We do not. Our Strategy talks about a retaliatory strike. There are no secrets whatsoever. What is a retaliatory strike? That is a response strike”.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 13 2022 23:05 utc | 75

“The US has announced breakthrough in fusion energy.”
This from a nation of LGBTQXYZ liars and thugs. Even Russian Dictator Putin looks like a Choir Boy alongside the Criminal Mafia that runs the USA.
“The US has announced a breakthrough in perfecting getting more bull excrement out than bull excrement in. 120%. Believe me. Would I lie to you.”

Posted by: kupkee | Dec 13 2022 23:17 utc | 76

Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 17:10 utc | 7
Please state where V.V.P explictly said he would obviously use nuclear weapons in Ukraine:
I believe that the Ukraine thread was talking about another conversation Putin had last month where he mentioned nukes. That is what I was referring to.
Not his comments recently. No big deal. Just a miscommunication we had. Take care

Posted by: Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 23:35 utc | 77

You know that the empire is in trouble when it’s trying to patronize a nation it formerly considers its inferior. I guesss the West is trying a charm offensive against India. I don’t think it would work. The present Indian leadership knows where its best interests lie. And it’s certainly not in the West.

Posted by: Steve | Dec 13 2022 23:39 utc | 78

So good that the US had a nuclear -fusion breakthrough. Maybe they can send many modular ones to Europe and the Ukraine to warm the population over the coming Winters? Now that would be newsworthy.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Dec 13 2022 23:53 utc | 79

Moaobserver | Dec 13 2022 19:29 utc | 43
Moaprovocateur dropped a turd about fusion energy.
BS as per usual :
https://youtu.be/LJ4W1g-6JiY
Its a long way off troll.

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 13 2022 23:59 utc | 80

Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 17:10 utc | 7
Please state where V.V.P explictly said he would obviously use nuclear weapons in Ukraine:
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/70061
Barflies why is it that the Peanuts in the gallery never actually read what V.V.P. says, they only read what the media says V.V.P says ?
Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 13 2022 22:10 utc | 68
Reading Putin’s words reveal NO STATEMENT ABOUT THE USE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN THE UKRAINE, whatsoever. Pointing out an article which either you cannot read or you cannot comprehend, does not advance your claim.

Posted by: kupkee | Dec 14 2022 0:12 utc | 81

Paul Greenwood@10
…heh-heh. You call up zeitgeists from some mid-60’s years spent rummaging aimlessly around American University and M Street bars wondering who I was and where to go from there. Poly-Sci majors. a SCICENCE, is it?!
Just one seemingly unrelated antidote that you can only relate to if you were there, that you must believe me isn’t intended to be antisemitic: I remember sitting down at a desk and seeing the penciled graffiti:
Q: What is the greatest cause of antisemitism on campus?
A: Jews.

Posted by: defaultcitizen | Dec 14 2022 0:16 utc | 82

I know the bar only likes polls that ask about their favorite adult beverage, but IMO the most recent Gallup Poll as reported by RT really needs to be aired:

Just 1% of Americans view Russia as top problem – poll: Moscow is far behind the US government, inflation, the economy, and immigration among major concerns, a new survey shows.
Less than 1% of Americans listed Russia as the top problem facing the US during the second half of 2022, according to a Gallup poll published on Tuesday. The survey revealed that the chief issue for most respondents is the nation’s own government.
An average of 19% of those surveyed throughout 2022 rated “government” as the “most important problem,” followed by “inflation” (16%) and “the economy” (12%).
The percentage of Americans viewing Russia as the primary issue facing the country did jump from 2% to 9% from February to March following the launch of Moscow’s military operation in Ukraine, but that figure had dipped back to 5% by April, and it has remained at 1% or below for the last five months, even as Washington pumped tens of billions of dollars into military aid for Kiev.
The US government has dominated Gallup’s “most important problem” polling for most of the last decade, only briefly being dislodged in 2020 by the Covid-19 pandemic. The disease regained some of the public’s attention in early 2022, having been mentioned by 20% of respondents in January.
However, on average it failed to surpass the leaders in Washington and has not cracked 1% for over six months, leaving it in sixth place in the year’s overall list of issues – behind immigration and “unifying the country.”

Gallup Poll link
And since those top three categories are explicitly government responsibilities including the next two–immigration and unifying the country–58% are saying government is the problem. Or perhaps that should be rephrased as being incompetent governance is the problem.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 14 2022 0:30 utc | 83

@ everyone
Poor Roadblock gets dragged through the coals by mostly everyone lol. More then half the comments are about his initial observation of Putin’s non-use of the word nukes at 7 or thereabouts. Is it a slow news day or what? Where’s all the usual interesting links?

Posted by: safe | Dec 14 2022 0:47 utc | 84

@ moaobserver
Shouldn’t have mentioned the words- fusion breakthrough in the us lofl!!

Posted by: safe | Dec 14 2022 0:48 utc | 85

Posted by: polarbear4 | Dec 13 2022 23:00 utc | 73
“The Russian government has specifically stated that it has no intention of using nuclear weapons in Ukraine, and will only use them if threatened with nuclear weapons by NATO.”
“threatened by” could mean anything.
The Russian official policy, last changed in 2020, is that first use is possible. Putin did make some comments that he would not use them first.
However the entire thing is ridiculous. Their 2020 policy includes the possible first use of nuclear weapons against aggression involving conventional weapons that “threatens the very existence of the state.” And no matter what any country says, including for example, the US, this is true.
“Sorry, General, I know their new supper duper hypersonic missile is impossible to defend against and they are systematically destroying our country, such that we won’t exist in a week, but we can’t use nuclear weapons first.”

Posted by: Bill Smith | Dec 14 2022 0:51 utc | 86

Russia is winning this war because of one simple transformation in the world.
Before February 24, 2022, the world was somewhat hesitant or tentative in its move towards a Multi-Polar World system. However, now the world is changing currency exchanges, joining BRICS, de-dollarizing, aligning themselves with the Eurasian Sovereignty, forging a continental Bolivarian Movement apart from Washington, throwing out the Europeans from Africa, signing on to ever increasing BRI, buying cheap energy while the West suffocates itself in high costs, etc.
In short, Russia’s challenge to NATO and the West has emboldened the entire world to rebel against their once touted Uni-Polar designs. … This is what leadership against tyranny is always about.

Posted by: Mummer | Dec 14 2022 0:55 utc | 87

Well I hate to “nit pick “ but when Putin says:
, we will certainly make use of all weapon systems available to us. This is not a bluff.
Putin is OBVIOUSLY including Nukes in that equation. To say he is not is laughable
Posted by: Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 17:10 utc | 7
I came in so this may have been said already, but OBVIOUSLY Roadblock has not thought this through thoroughly. Russia and the US both have nuclear weapons and missiles. Both have enough to destroy the planet several times over; nothing new about that. What is new, are could actually be new, is the speed of the delivery systems and/or the surreptitious nature of a stealth systems that can evade detection while in flight.
You only need to destroy the world once, only the delivery system can be something new.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 14 2022 1:26 utc | 88

Arrnon | Dec 13 2022 18:23 utc | 21
As far as I am aware, b doesn’t charge extra if you insert a paragraph break (or 7) in your wall of text.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 13 2022 18:37 utc | 27
Thank you Melaleuca. I was thinking the same thing. I looked at it and said to myself that I wasn’t going there. Too bad, it may have been a real barn burner.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 14 2022 1:37 utc | 89

Thanks Mel & Ed
🙂 🙂

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 14 2022 1:47 utc | 90

Melaleuca @ 27, Ed @ 89:
Another couple of long comments from Arrnon like the one posted @ 21 with no paragraph breaks, and you may be sure B will burn down Arrnon’s barn in no time.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 14 2022 1:52 utc | 91

“anti-Russian/pro-Indian scribes” are very few and far apart on the sub-continent.
anti-Chinese/pro-Indian scribes are plenty due to Xi Jinping’s continued Himalayan blunders, his wolf warrior attitude towards his biggest Asia neighbor. It’s a self-made traphole created by the CCP: no negotiations with India about the common border even now. The BRICS wall crumbles in the center.

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 14 2022 2:10 utc | 92

I’m positive that that good old USA will glass any and all
If it comes down to it.
All you bambooo hugging intellectuals better get used to hugging your knees
Cuz when it comes, it coming hard.
You better be like James or Karl, in some hideout funded by socialist policies.
Those guys are gonna live, and make the new rules.
Karl and James have got this shit figured out.
Done working. Cashing checks. Away from. Cities.

Posted by: Your mom | Dec 14 2022 2:23 utc | 93

@92
Are you aware that China has a $100 billion trade surplus with India and that even the statues Modi is so fond of putting up are constructed in China? India literally cannot survive economically without China and both sides know it.
That’s apart from the rights and wrongs of the border alignment, a problem created by the Brutish and exacerbated under the Indian regime of Jawaharlal Nehru.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 14 2022 2:24 utc | 94

Yeah , not reading wall of text from random internet dude.like was written at 21
Common sense, people.
Make your shit easy to read.
I may miss the Easter egg, but I’ll also skip the 99 seconds of my life lost.
We aren’t asking for MLA formatting here.
Just shit we can read without breaking our eyeballs.

Posted by: Dante’s Vulve | Dec 14 2022 2:32 utc | 95

@ 94
Nehru died long ago, but at least he supported China as a permanent member of the security council of the UN – “forgetting” his own nation. Have you ever seen any friendly Chinese initiative to solve these border disputes? The PRC has also border problems with Bhutan and Nepal by the way, not to mention the 9-dash fantasy line.

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 14 2022 2:57 utc | 96

bevin @ 14 stated; “It is not funny but it is undeniable that the US has made the pace, consistently, in forcing other countries to arm themselves in defence of imperialist aggression.”
Well worth repeating, and, true..

Posted by: vetinLA | Dec 14 2022 3:01 utc | 97

Thanks mom@93
You think you know what’s up but you’re only half right, love the cajones though.
The us might “glass” some countries that may or may not deserve it but if you don’t see some fallout yourself, your little party out in the boonies will definitely be interrupted by a group of desperados that’s gonna steal all your preps and make your back door a whole lot bigger.

Posted by: safe | Dec 14 2022 3:08 utc | 98

Barely one week after the US 82 airborne joined the jawans in a war game at the Chinese border, Bharat provoked another border skirmish with China .
Must be coincidence eh ?
[wHAT else do those shit stirrers aka FUKUSA offer to the world these days…except wars, war games, guns, porns, bloodbath and bullshit ?]

Posted by: denk | Dec 14 2022 3:31 utc | 99

Well I hate to “nit pick “ but when Putin says:
, we will certainly make use of all weapon systems available to us. This is not a bluff.
Putin is OBVIOUSLY including Nukes in that equation. To say he is not is laughable
Posted by: Roadblock | Dec 13 2022 17:10 utc | 7

Was that said with regard to the war with Ukraine, or with regard to NATO attacking Russia?

Posted by: Simon | Dec 14 2022 3:33 utc | 100