There are no cognate protests in the West because they are deemed to not exist. Wouldn't matter if there were protests, NYT would never cover it. Neither would anyone else. Non-narrative persons are at best ghosts. Even on this page, ghosts. Stray from narrative for Ukraine, fine here. Stray from covid narrative, same as being a troll.

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 7 2022 16:47 utc | 1

In China, you can't change the government but you can change the policy. In the West, you can change the government but not the policy. It's sort of depressing in Canada where you look at each party's election platform and they're all the same neoliberal stuff, just in varying degrees.

Posted by: leaf | Dec 7 2022 16:50 utc | 2

The spin doctors and strategists of the west believe they are unique in their obsession with human psychology and perception, and thus place a premium on short term propaganda narratives and public relations which they believe can provide Clausewitzian decisiveness and shape the evolution of the ideas and perceptions in play and the direction of conflicts.

But this notion is only as good as the material realities allow. It is not China but the west which is suffering from a collapsing social contract. Which is why they can only make the pikachu face meme at the eruption of dissent in Europe, being as it is outside of neoliberal history, on the wrong side of the iron curtain.

Posted by: Cesare | Dec 7 2022 16:51 utc | 3

Given that China felt particularly targeted by the virus, considering that it had been seen to have 'Chinese characteristics' (I am using that term loosely), it was worthy of the nation that they took the outbreaks extremely seriously, and the people followed protocols in good faith - I am remembering that even PBS aired a Chinese video "Wuhan Wuhan" that was very enlightening as to the measures immediately taken. And I also remember a video praising the immediate extension of information to the rest of the world, even including sending physician teams to Europe to help combat what became a very frightening and seemingly targeted epidemic.

We don't have the entire story as yet, but I am certain the truth will out. It always does,in the long run. This is the best sign so far that this epidemic is finally lessening its initial intensity. Bravo, China!

Posted by: juliania | Dec 7 2022 16:54 utc | 4

ahh come on b... you have to let the nyt knock down their own straw-man!! you want to take away all their fun!! if you think of the nyt and most western media outlets as a newer version of comic books - it is so much easier to understand it all... i think you better have another one of those hazelnut cookies you were making last week and relax, lol...

@ oldhippie | Dec 7 2022 16:47 utc | 1 - there is some truth to what you say... narrative control - the new disease of our time...

Posted by: james | Dec 7 2022 16:56 utc | 5

I am not familiar with particulars of the situation discussed here, but in general, protests often score victories, and I know examples from Russia because I followed matters there more. Knowing Russian helps too...

Example 1: Putin's government pressed for the increase in the retirement age that was 60 for men and 55 for women, and there were wide protests. The schedule of the increase was altered to twice slower, with other changes too.

Example 2: There was a plan to build modern apartment buildings in Moscow, replacing "communal apartments" from Communist time, in which several families shared the kitchen and bathroom. There were wide protests because inhabitants were used to that lifestyle and attractive locations closer to the city center. The plan was abandoned.

Example 3: soft attitude to COVID restrictions.

This contrasts with pig-headed resistance to protester demands in countries like France, UK, Canada. So the question is what people need more:

A. Easier change of the government, or
B. Easier change of government policies

and in extremes we observe, would you rather have A without B, or B without A?

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 7 2022 16:57 utc | 6

This is today's focus of the Western fascist media because they don't want to report on Xi's 3-day visit to Saudi Arabia where he is being welcomed better than Biden on his last visit.

The revolution will not be televised......

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 7 2022 16:58 utc | 7

The protests have nothing to do with it as this would have happened anyway.

Posted by b on December 7, 2022 at 16:38 UTC | Permalink

While I (mostly) agree with that, I'd like to point out that protests in China can influence politics and change policies while protests in our liberal democracies, even with hundreds of thousands of people, do not change anything 99% of the time... just look at the BLM protests with millions of people: nothing really changed except that the police will be militarised even more.

Posted by: Zet | Dec 7 2022 16:58 utc | 8

@ leaf | Dec 7 2022 16:50 utc | 2

OT _ true.. max bernier seems like a departure.. i am voting for him next fed election..

* note to marc

- OT - off topic.. the protocol at moa is to stay on topic.. going OT is just that.. it tends to disrupt the threads like the last one on blinken-crimea.... i will respond to you on the week in review thread as that is an open thread for discussion on anything... and what richard was asking you was to identify the post you are replying to as i have here with leaf @ 2... it brings greater clarity to these threads.. cheers..

Posted by: james | Dec 7 2022 17:00 utc | 9

I think China's Covid policy up to this point has at least been partially designed to upset the supply chain to the West. They even got Apple. This was their under the table help for Russia strange not even Blinken ever mentioned it. We wouldn't want folks to realize the
deindustrialization of America is complete and Europe will be complete soon.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Dec 7 2022 17:01 utc | 10

Is it possible that the west knew this is coming so it organized such "demos" at this timeframe?! Therefore, it could falsely claim that it's the "demos" "forced" the changes and give its vassals the illusion that its "color activities" still work. You can see the media in the west and its vassals, especially anglo sphere, gives "credits" to the demos for China's current Covid policy change.

On an additional note and not sure if someone mentioned this already. There is a speculation that white-paper is used in this round is that it is easy for post-production, namely, someone can put whatever on the white-paper in the photos or videos with editing at a later time. For the "participants", using white-paper may give them an excuse for escaping any potential charge. For the organizers, they can post-produce whatever fits for later use.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Dec 7 2022 17:02 utc | 11

The US State Department currently has a highly-publicized anti-disinformation campaign which is actually a cover for the disinformation it sends out to the mass media on whatever can be said to make China look bad. Currently it is: go beyond covid protests and make those few protests indicative of major faults in China.

Forbes: China Protests Go Beyond Demanding An End To Severe Covid-19 Restrictions
Tribune India: Unrest in China goes beyond Covid protests
CS Monitor: In mass protests across China, goals go beyond easing COVID rules
USNews: EXPLAINER: What's Behind the Protests in China?
wbur: What China's zero COVID protests tell us about China today
Vox: China's protests are testing the surveillance state
FoxNews: Protests in China are about much more than COVID lockdowns
marketplace: China's protesters are angry about more than just zero-COVID
etc.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 7 2022 17:06 utc | 12

When it's finally studied outside the current context a few decades in the future, it will be seen that China as usual turned a crisis into an opportunity, while the Outlaw US Empire and its vassals bungled and fumbled.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 7 2022 17:07 utc | 13

@ james | Dec 7 2022 17:00 utc | 10

Thank you James. I was a little too hammered last night, and shoulda been on the OT thread instead.

Posted by: Marc | Dec 7 2022 17:14 utc | 14

@SwissArmyMan | Dec 7 2022 17:01 utc | 11

I think China's Covid policy up to this point has at least been partially designed to upset the supply chain to the West.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 7 2022 17:16 utc | 15

I think China has vast experience with US Biological Warfare going back at least 75 years or more

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Dec 7 2022 17:24 utc | 16

The revolution will not be televised.

The narrative proffered by the Western fascist media is not reality and repeated spewing of such as Dan Bacon notes in comment #14 will not make it reality.

The shit show will end when revolutionary reality overwhelms the mythical narrative.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 7 2022 17:27 utc | 17

Didn't the contemptible rag, the New York Times, already claim the zero-Covid policy is "destroying China"?

So why is removing restrictions, which would spur Chinese economic growth, a "victory" for the west? (Rhetorical question)

It seems that these rags are going to print "west win, China lose", no matter what happens the next day.

So why is it even "news" when one can accurately predict what's going to be printed year round, 365 days in advance?

I'm not sure how news outlets are accredited, if there is such a thing. In any case, I've a bone to pick with the head of the accreditation board.

Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Dec 7 2022 17:49 utc | 18

When it's finally studied outside the current context a few decades in the future, it will be seen that China as usual turned a crisis into an opportunity, while the Outlaw US Empire and its vassals bungled and fumbled.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 7 2022 17:07 utc | 15

LOL... that is certainly true if you are the one documenting it. The "west" turned the crisis into an opportunity to maximize profits for big pharma and to fine tune their propaganda psyop techniques. I'd say that was a huge success.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 7 2022 17:53 utc | 19

This whole war idea in Europe is a joke. B has served in the German army, they will all run away. No one there is actually prepared for war. Only promotions in peacetime.

Posted by: First of India | Dec 7 2022 17:55 utc | 20

Military options of NATO against Russia seem zero. Now Russia + China is even more absurd. But that is what we are told. Dark winter coming in Europe. Thank God I moved out

Posted by: First of India | Dec 7 2022 18:05 utc | 21

Right now it is that COVID is no big deal, go out and get infected every few months for the rest of your life (which is totally not going to be drastically shortened because of that).

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 7 2022 17:26 utc | 19

Correct, for a virus with a lethality rate marginally higher than a normal flu. I am going to assume that I have been exposed to covid since I have been exposed to people who have had it. Using the same cold/flu preventive/therapeutic measures I have used for the past 20 years I did not display any symptoms for more than a couple of hours. At 70, I expect to live at least another 20 by doing the same.

Your immune system requires exposure to bacteria and viruses to function. If you suppress that excessively (constant masking and isolation) you are suppressing your body's natural response. You eventually become a hostage to big pharma and medi-tech for your continued health and survival. If you wish to do so, fine. But any attempt to impose that on others will be resisted.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 7 2022 18:10 utc | 22

China has bowed to the inevitable- a great pity. Persisting in its well founded campaign to eradicate the virus ('what virus?' a chorus of idiots inquires) while it was still possible.

Unfortunately the capitalist states, where preventing the deaths of a million or so people is an incomprehensible objective in the circles which matter, refused to join in a global campaign that might have served as a model for future struggles to deal with the environmental crisis that threaten the lives not of mere millions but billions. China could suppress the disease-it kept the total death toll within its borders to less that 8000- but it is surrounded by countries that don't care.
China's predicament has arisen in part because its leadership was too optimistic of the public reaction in the 'west'. It assumed wrongly that popular pressure would force western governments to take thorough measures to deal with Covid thus relieving the pressure on China.
It was wrong: public opinion in the west was cleverly manipulated by the extreme right with its primary agenda of protecting corporate capitalism and its individualist ideology, an agenda that it laughingly claims is 'libertarian.'
China believed that public pressure would force the US government to adopt public health and medicare policies to prevent deaths-in fact public pressure, exemplified by the 'truckers' protest in Ottawa, called for the opposite.

The real basis of the current system of imperialism organised by capitalists is the power of its ideology: most people cannot imagine a society in which their interests would be given priority over those of the warmongers and exploiters. The idea of practical democracy and socio-economic equality is regarded as outlandish.

People understand that there is something very wrong with a system that leads to crises such as that in Ukraine and nourishes a Nazi renaissance, for freedom, national sovereignty and democracy, and they search everywhere for its underlying causes. Some settle on 'communism' and the 'left', forces so weak in the west that by comparison lizard from outer space power is credible. Others blame the Jews. The reviving influence of the followers of Lyndon Larouche blame not only the Rothschilds but the Rockefellers and the British Royal Family. Then there are Bill Gates, and George Soros, the WEF, and so on. And their agent is Big Pharma which is bent on killing us al... the madness is unending.
And watching it intently, cheering its progress and urging it on are the capitalist class for whom the situation is very simple: privilege and the immense resources at wealth's command will protect its members from most of the dangers that Covid poses. As to the rest if a hundred meatpackers in Nebraska die because they are unprotected from the disease, they are easily replaceable, and in replacing them wage cuts are easily worked into the mix. If 93 elderly Ontarioans die in a highly profitable "Care" facility the cost of PR and advertising to re-sell the emptied properties will be minimal and prices go up, more than compensating for the costs of the exercise.

In capitalism every crisis is an opportunity for more profit, lower labour costs. Nobody deliberately introduced Covid or exaggerated its dangers but, like the 'libertarian ' ideologists, the entrepreneurs quickly took advantage of the opportunities it seemed to offer.
In doing so they employed their state, and ensured that its policies would be adapted to serve their needs: vaccines would be contracted out to corporations to produce, at a profit; they should be sold and the question of making public their formulae was immediately rejected. The profits of corporations outweigh the lives of millions, the sufferings of tens of millions and long term consequences which are unimaginable. The same was true of every other measure or device employed to mitigate the effects of the epidemics: protective equipment was unobtainable except at great cost, it was impossible to close down London's Airports because so many flights were booked to land in them. Social distancing in factories was unprofitable... etc
Far better to pretend that there is nothing to worry about and rely on the infinite capacity of ordinary people to turn away from reality and the enormous capacity of the latent fascism in liberalism to excuse any offences besides the, largely mythical, depredations of collectivists over the centuries.

I see, as I post, that the "Catch Covid for fun" and the "immune system requires stimulus" but not vaccination crowd are still with us. No doubt Darwin will take care of them eventually. In the meantime they are committed to cough at us-for our own good- and spread the diseases which they regard as so trivial.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2022 18:35 utc | 23

@bevin | Dec 7 2022 18:35 utc | 26

I see, as I post, that the "Catch Covid for fun" and the "immune system requires stimulus" but not vaccination crowd are still with us.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 7 2022 18:49 utc | 24

Does anyone here really cares what this foreigner living in China for past 10 years in a tier 4 Chinese city has to say about what's actually happening in China?
Well a regular MOA China Hating Indian called me a wumao because what I said in a previous MOA article demolished his wet dream of poor oppressed Chinese overthrowing their evil commie dictatorship.
B missed an important point of a new class struggle against a reactionary base of self serving corrupt local bureacrates gorging on the never ending flow of national state weath to the local govts to pay for expenses incurred at the ground level. The accumulation of incredible powers over the ordinary citizens under the name of Zero Covid Policy, against national building safety laws.
Well those days of endless flow of easy money is over. Speaking from ground Zero as someone who went through first 9 days of lockdown and then a week later another 12 days of inexcusable lockdowns. People actually profited during this pandemic.
Easy because "the emperor is far away".
Beijing knew but for 3 years could do little. The Omicron is a blessing as it's highly infectious but only slight more lethal than flu. Even less lethal than the 2009 flu pandemic.

Look in the previous article on same subject for my eye witness account vid life in China. And it's largely as B said. Storm in a teacup with Beijing actually stirring the protests with their release of the 20 Optimised Measures, and the foot dragging of local govts in implementing the guidelines that started the protests.
And the protests have largely died down as major big provincial capitals implemented the guidelines and ordered their other cities to do same.
Read globaltimes.cn
Everything you need to know is there.

I'm surprised at B for actually knowing China better than the fake foreign correspondents hanging around their Beijing hotel bar holes waiting for their US Masters to tell them what's the latest script from CIA to run on their own national media.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 19:15 utc | 25

I wonder whether Tbx at 13 might be assigned to MoA for his troll-farm stints: Assignation: Do everything you can to whip up the narrative that the 'pandemic' - more exactly the scamdemic - has been and continues to be lethal to 'millions of people', and will be back soon with lots more (hallucinated) 'mass-killings'. So be very afraid - all the time!!!

No sign of that in the real-world statistics; more like a slightly worse than usual flu, with a huge entourage of lying fear-porn propaganda, to keep people stampeding in the direction the powers that shouldn't be want is to go. Plus lockdown policies and mass poison-stabbing that really do kill masses of people; designated as 'covid deaths' naturally.

Just speculating as to why Tbx can be so out of sync. with actual reality; the IFR of 'covid' being less than half of one percent, for example, as is now widely admitted. A 'mass-killing global pandemic'? Er - not even remotely. And easily treated with hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, quercetin, etc., including mega-dose vitamin C - my preferred quick'n'easy cure for any respiratory ill trying on its early symptoms with me, which has never failed me yet in nearly thirty years; including for 'covid'. No flu/colds illness during all that time, including 'covid'... And absolute zero poison-stabs, of course. Me a dyed-in-the-wool anti-vaxxer? Of course! Always. Proudly!

Strange that b and followers find such difficulty with this evidently realistic thesis about the scamedemic. Saker has the same blind spot too. Even the most perspicacious of us has inevitable blind-spots, it seems. (Note to self: you too, don't ever forget!!) :)

Posted by: Rhisiart Gwilym | Dec 7 2022 19:16 utc | 26

This is a summary of the new 10 points plan that will further loosen the restrictions.

Trust me. You won't like the China in 2023.
This is a window of opportunity for China to start their economy on a higher level to immunise China against any further US shennigans aimed at isolating and controlling China's growth.

Think Super Speed Growth in all directions. The paid trolls here will be screaming in impotent rage.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202212/1281307.shtml

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 19:25 utc | 27

Sounds like the protesters won to me.

Posted by: Josh | Dec 7 2022 19:33 utc | 28

Posted by: Josh | Dec 7 2022 19:33 utc | 31

It's Beijing won. The protests were whipped up by Beijing against foot dragging local municipal govts that actually have direct life and death powers over their residents than faraway Beijing.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 19:38 utc | 29

Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 7 2022 19:23 utc | 40 etc

I am sure you must be right.

Posted by: Tim | Dec 7 2022 19:39 utc | 30

There is no need of a 'zero covid policy' in China since virtually, everyone is fully vaccinated. Getting infected is not an issue as long as the symptoms are weak.

Given how much we lie about China, I do not even know if they actually had a 'zero covid policy' or if that was info war. FOX news and others trotted out the 'people are being welded into their apts' meme and that makes me suspicious of the reporting.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Dec 7 2022 19:45 utc | 31

Stray from narrative for Ukraine, fine here. Stray from covid narrative, same as being a troll.

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 7 2022 16:47 utc | 1

Guess that goes to show how narrative does indeed shape reality, eh?!

=============================

Very strange how these obviously over-reported and under-attended protests preceded a shift in covid policy. It might seem to make the regime look weak in that perhaps they are responding to pressure etc. but as b - and seemingly rightly - points out, these policies were already in the pipeline anyway plus - again - the protests weren't powerful by any stretch.

One result though: the Western media and thus also Establishment has a good talking point, that people pressure helped push the CPC towards a less authoritarian approach. But so what? The whole thing seems nothingburgerish any which way you look at it.

Perhaps there are only two big issues at play:

1. Will easing of covid policies result in millions of excess deaths in China as no doubt many fear in so densely populated a country?

2. Will easing result in renewal of trade flows and thus create a growth spurt in both China and the world economy as some are predicting? Or will the current bifurcation dynamic continue anyway?

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 7 2022 19:48 utc | 32

@Surferket | Dec 7 2022 19:15 utc | 28

Does anyone here really cares what this foreigner living in China for past 10 years in a tier 4 Chinese city has to say about what's actually happening in China?

Thank you for sharing your observations and perspective on the ground.

Storm in a teacup with Beijing actually stirring the protests with their release of the 20 Optimised Measures, and the foot dragging of local govts in implementing the guidelines that started the protests.

In addition to your observations, my impression is that China does review the performance of the related agencies at each level for the Covid policy execution. There are several cases that the officials in a few local governments got disciplined or even removed from positions after outbreaks occurred in their responsible areas. That may partially contribute to that local governments would rather do more than less that is required from the top. As a result, it becomes adding-on-level-by-level (层层加码).

Posted by: LuRenJia | Dec 7 2022 20:04 utc | 33

@surferket

Thanks as always for your in-country perspective.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202212/1281310.shtml. This article is about Sinovac. It mentions taking the shot 3 times so I assume it's yet another version of this new mRNA stuff, not traditional vaccines which don't require regular multiple injections.

It certainly looks good. But then so did Pfizer and Moderna look good.

I am leary of the publication you recommend since it's clearly an official type organ. That said, its articles usually contain a healthy level of detail and minimal emotive BS.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 7 2022 20:06 utc | 34

Posted by: LuRenJia | Dec 7 2022 20:04 utc | 36

It's more about abuses in the implementation of the Zero Covid Policy, and the incredible graft at the ground level where local officials enrich themselves on mass testing and use of fake positives to do more and more mass testing. And the state money for each person in centralised isolation actually promotes more people put into centralised isolation, thereby profiteering those in charge who can demand kickbacks, skim the amount paid per head, set up own companies supplying all levels of testing materials and testing labs, recruitment agencies for "testers".
It's a huge scam at the ground level.

Beijing has always stressed that actions must be taken at the start of an outbreak at the localised level. But which the 社区either took it as complete lockdown or they did nothing as happened in Shanghai back in December 2021 initially which then spread to all parts of China before it was controlled.

Many people no longer goes to the mandatory mass testing because we have loose all faith in the honesty of the test labs. 没🐑有🐑。I didn't go for my last few rounds too even though they kept claiming it's mandatory. It's unscientific when you have been in lockdown for past 10 days and still have to do nucleic test and be taken away as "positive"!

The real evil is the local municipal govts.

Thankfully, all that bullshit stopped after Beijing released their 20 Optimised Measures paper.

The harsh lockdowns are still happening in some places because when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
People now are more aware of the new guidelines because it's found all over Chinese social media as people use it to hammer their local govts.

Too bad MOA uses a very primitive form of interface that don't support inclusion of photos and videos.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 20:22 utc | 35

Recall the actual worldwide, peaceful Occupy protests,
which Saint Obama covertly directed the US authorities to violently smash…the NYT, CNN, et al pretended that protesters were unfocused, incoherent and neither the media nor the protesters themselves knew what exactly they were protesting about. Lying bastards.

Posted by: nwwoods | Dec 7 2022 20:28 utc | 36

@Surferket | Dec 7 2022 20:22 utc | 38

Thank you very much for the elaboration. It sounds like the abuses are not isolated but probably wide-spread?! I wonder if CPC Central Commission for Discipline Inspection and National Supervisory Commission will review and take necessary actions.

I did see some mentioning about abuses and issues related to testing labs at Guancha. However, I didn't see any follow-up or action from the related agencies.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Dec 7 2022 20:38 utc | 37

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 7 2022 20:06 utc | 37

Here are 2 more recent articles on Chinese vaccines.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202212/1281310.shtml

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202212/1281267.shtml

Re Chinese state media, you can take what they report literally as it's punishment for fake news and fake data. Your prejudices stems from your experience with your own msm but cannot be lumped with Chinese reporting. I trust Chinese media since I see things with my own eyes. My own national media is nothing more than a propaganda mouthpiece for CIA.
In reading about China in their media you need to see what they don't talk about. That's where they don't get into trouble. If you want something often antagonistic about China happening then read Caixin, which is independent media, although they have state enterprises as investors.

Sinopharm and Sinovac are using inactivated virus, same as baby shots. Old but reliable technology.
But against C19 variants they lose efficacy over time. Same problem with our flu shots which actually just guard against a previous know flu strain, but not a newer mutated seasonal strain.
Most of us have 2 shots and many have 3 shots which boost the resistance. Chinese vaccines are very safe and far more effective against C19 than the western P&M shit which have been known to kill on vaccination, is of very low efficacy against any strain that's not the original. Read Israeli reports on this. These western shit have lower efficacy against Delta and Omicron than Chinese vaccines. Most cases (80%) of current Omicron are asymptomatic and cleans in 5 days. Others are mild flu symptoms. Very rare is serious complications that are found in those with already serious medical history.
Hence China is focusing on improving critical care for the surge in elderly.

The takeup rate of vaccinated in the elderly (65+) is much lower than the younger age groups. So far 3 deaths in Beijing in the current outbreak and these are actually VERY OLD people over 80s and with serious health issues.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 20:40 utc | 38

Posted by: LuRenJia | Dec 7 2022 20:38 utc | 40

Here's an example.
China is a huge country with land area larger than US without Alaska, and a population almost 4 times. Chinese govt system is decentralised down to the village level with full authority. Hence knowing what's happening at a macro level is nightmare for Beijing. They actually relies much on social media to know the problems on the ground.

Here's an example of labs being investigated because of sudden high number of positives.

"In Southwest China's Chongqing Municipality, the city authorities established five special working groups to conduct an investigation over 16 third-party nucleic acid testing institutions to regulate the tests, as the city has reported more than 80,000 positive cases in the latest round of flare-ups.

There have been some problems reflected with nucleic acid testing recently. Guo Yanhong, an official from the NHC, said on Tuesday that there have been some illegal situations found in Beijing and other regions, and serious punishment has been imposed. Guo vowed to continue to strengthen supervision, and serious violations of the law involving issuing false nucleic acid test reports will be punished strictly in accordance with the law and regulations."

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202211/1280764.shtml
"

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 20:51 utc | 39

China has bowed to the inevitable- a great pity. Persisting in its well founded campaign to eradicate the virus ('what virus?' a chorus of idiots inquires) while it was still possible.

....

I see, as I post, that the "Catch Covid for fun" and the "immune system requires stimulus" but not vaccination crowd are still with us. No doubt Darwin will take care of them eventually. In the meantime they are committed to cough at us-for our own good- and spread the diseases which they regard as so trivial.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2022 18:35 utc | 26

What part of the CDC changing the definition of "vaccine" in the middle of this crisis did you miss? These treatments (traditionally made from last year's flu) were previously called inoculations.

What part of the CDC belatedly admitting (after the big pharma vaccines were marketed and sold) that the "vaccine" does not prevent infection or spread did you miss?

How many of your acquaintances got covid soon after getting the jab and/or booster? I know of dozens. About half admitted they were fooled and only did so for employment/travel.

You cannot eradicate a virus as your post states, but you can mitigate the effects until it evolves to become relatively harmless. That possible motive was the only sensible part of the Chinese approach.

You can also outsmart covid by creating an inhospitable environment in your nasal passages and throat. A virus cannot multiply in an alkaline environment, how to best do that is a matter of personal preference.

You are welcome to stay on the modern Medi-tech treadmill, but ask yourself if Darwin would think that is the best option for the evolution of our species.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 7 2022 20:56 utc | 40

"According to the National Health Commission, the average full-vaccination rate of the entire population had reached 90 percent as of November 28. The rates of people aged 60 and above and those aged 80 and above who had completed full vaccination were about 86 percent and 66 percent, respectively."

Interesting. I tried searching for that info a few months ago but got nowhere. So IF this is true then probably fair to say that the vaccines are not all that harmful. But if there is such a high rate of vaccination and they are so effective, the obvious question is: why such strict lock down approach? Well, no matter. Each country has its own way.

Thank you for the caixin recommendation. I am not looking for negative coverage but I tend to avoid official organs who only voice the positive. All entities from individuals to large nations deal with both positive and negative aspects every day. The ones which push only positive or only negative usually have little interesting to say. Plus, as have mentioned here before, I find China such a huge, multifaceted topic that I tend to avoid it. Right now we are in tectonic geopolitical times in which China is emerging as the Big Dog making it of more immediate interest, but still I don't wish to enter too far in. There is only so much one can follow and absorb.

That said, this week I'm reading Ehret's 75-page report on China the past century up to the present; even though for sure he has a slant, at least he lards his prose with many references from relevant historical figures. His latest piece is entitled 'breaking free of anti-China psyops.' I might not agree with all his points, but hopefully I will learn a lot in only a few hours of concentrated reading.

=======================

It's more about abuses in the implementation of the Zero Covid Policy, and the incredible graft at the ground level where local officials enrich themselves on mass testing and use of fake positives to do more and more mass testing. And the state money for each person in centralised isolation actually promotes more people put into centralised isolation, thereby profiteering those in charge who can demand kickbacks, skim the amount paid per head, set up own companies supplying all levels of testing materials and testing labs, recruitment agencies for "testers". It's a huge scam at the ground level.

This paragraph of yours from an earlier post mentions the sort of thing which make me a little nervous viz China. I don't care about the US vs China business at all. I just generally believe that centralization tends to become over-centralization and over-centralization tends towards totalitarianism. It has nothing to do with China per se but since you have a 1.5 billion population and by definition need a strong centralized state, the danger of over-centralization - which may or may not already be in effect, I wouldn't know - gives pause. And when you read from afar of widespread lock-downs, people shut in doors, factories closed and so forth, well... it's reasonable to wonder what's going on there.

When I was in China, admittedly for only a few months, I didn't feel any sort of totalitarian vibe at all. Zero. So that's my first frame of reference. Still, we are now going through something akin to a war and things can change.

My reservations about vaccines, for example, are not about whether or not any particular one is good or bad. It's about the precedent of forcing people to take them. What happens if one time the vaccines are by accident or design quite deadly? I don't like the notion of a central government having that sort of power. But I also know that that's just me. Again, I quite understand that a nation of 1.5 billion has to be run with quite a firm, and centralized, hand. It has certain dangers, that's all, as do all systems of any type.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 7 2022 21:13 utc | 41

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 7 2022 20:56 utc | 43

"You cannot eradicate a virus as your post states, but you can mitigate the effects until it evolves to become relatively harmless. That possible motive was the only sensible part of the Chinese approach."

Yes that's exactly what China did. Bought 3 years time to protect the majority of Chinese people from the US virus, do mass vaccination to reduce the lethality of the virus, wait for virus to mutate to a less deadly version.

This should be a Must to Read for all to know the Chinese method.
2023 is the year of China Breakout.

The vast resources that China have spend on fighting C19 (trillions$) will now be spend on the China Century, massively dwarfing the US$300 billion US intends to spend for bringing back industries.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202212/1281397.shtml

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 21:16 utc | 42

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 7 2022 21:13 utc | 44

China has no mandatory for everyone to be vaccinated. Even students can choose not to be vaccinated. They just need the nuclei test result to attend school.
Same goes for everyone in China, if they are taking trains, planes, entering public buildings. It's the Green Code to show we're not infected. Not that we're vaccinated.
There's no Us vs Them between the vaccinated and unvaccinated. We do everything together. Eat and play together.
This is why I'm so supportive of the Chinese system.

I raged at my own country's discriminating policies targeting those who are unvaccinated. They were excluded from most social activities.

As for lockdown despite high level of vaccination, it's a number game given China's huge population. Even 0.001% infected and need hospitalisation would overwhelm China's healthcare infrastructure, re Wuhan. This the money spend on mass testing and centralised isolation is still far cheaper than state paid for C19 hospitalisation that can easily go over 1 million RMB for anyone entering ICU.
And computed deaths are along the line of 1 million and beyond. China's healthcare is better than India but nowhere near western countries.
I did a basic comparison using the data of my home country and extrapolate that to China and I derived at 4 million deaths in China.
My country willingly accept the deaths of 2.5k "weak and useless" people in a population of 5.5 million. But Chinese govt is not so heartless.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 21:30 utc | 43

"You cannot eradicate a virus as your post states, but you can mitigate the effects until it evolves to become relatively harmless. That possible motive was the only sensible part of the Chinese approach."

Yes that's exactly what China did. Bought 3 years time to protect the majority of Chinese people from the US virus, do mass vaccination to reduce the lethality of the virus, wait for virus to mutate to a less deadly version.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202212/1281397.shtml
Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 21:16 utc | 45

WOW... That is some serious state propaganda.

To be clear, I am not saying that China's approach was optimum, simply that mitigation was the only justification for it. The optimum approach was to protect the elderly, infirm, and immune compromised and encourage the rest of the population to minimize spread and adopt common preventative and therapeutic measures. Like Sweden, though they admitted they were slow on protecting the elderly.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 7 2022 21:31 utc | 44

@Surferket | Dec 7 2022 20:51 utc | 42,
Thank you for the info and sharing.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Dec 7 2022 21:34 utc | 45

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 7 2022 21:31 utc | 47

Many in China refuse to be vaccinated. Not just the old. For any various reasons. They cannot be forced into vaccination. And knowledge that if they enter hospital for C19 the state will pay the full tab actually incentivised them not to take the vaccination.
The Chinese system is like a cacoon over the 1.44 billion population.
But the new white paper is very clear that the time has come for China to open the doors fully so those who choose to be unvaccinated must make their own choice in that light. No more paid mass testing for free.
I know a young woman who was unvaccinated but now will vaccinate because of the opening up and no more protection from being exposed to C19.

China preferred to err on the side of caution to pickup 1.44 billion people to protect the 9% population who are unvaccinated. That cost China trillions and held back China's booming economy. My own 77 years old father in law is unvaccinated. My wife said she don't care. The country (92%) must move on and cannot be held hostage by a very small group of people.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 21:41 utc | 46

Scorpion: China never enforces covid vaccines on the public, not even for inbound citizens and foreigners. they cajoled and persuaded, sometimes with rice and milk to attract the older folks, but no one was penalised for not taking one, except in instances where municipalities overstepped their boundaries. I did not get my vaccine (Sinopharm) until the later half of this year when I had to head home to visit my families. Without the vaccine they wouldn’t let me back into the country.

Top tip: don’t get your China info from zero hedge.

Posted by: bonks | Dec 7 2022 21:42 utc | 47

Posted by: bonks | Dec 7 2022 21:42 utc | 50

True. China never practice a Vaccination passport. Even companies cannot discriminate against anyone not vaccinated unless it's in a work area where they are actually exposed to infection.

In social life there's absolutely no discrimination between vaccinated and unvaccinated.
This is why I support the Chinese humane system. Personally I'm triple jabbed at age 65.
In China people have a choice, but now they just face the real world consequences as China can no longer afford to shelter 1.44 billion people from being exposed to the virus.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 21:49 utc | 48

Top tip: don’t get your China info from zero hedge.

Posted by: bonks | Dec 7 2022 21:42 utc | 50

Thank you! I didn't mean to imply I thought China was enforcing vaccines. That was happening in the West but is the sort of thing that over-centralized power throws up. The West is now run by unaccountable elites and is highly centralized that way. From an article about a year ago I had the impression that China was emphasizing mitigation behaviors over vaccination and until this morning didn't know they claim 90% participation rate.

As I said above, I don't tend to read much about China because it's too vast a topic. I cannot recall, for example, ever reading a single article about China on Zero Hedge, though I must have done so at some point. I don't trust anything written in English about any foreign country or about the UK or the US for that matter. I just look at various fact patterns, or seeming-fact patterns and/or anomalies and try to stay abreast. I don't have a formed opinion about China or Russia - which irritates psychohistorian no end apparently and gets him to accuse me of bad faith! I have neither animus nor trust for either country. That said, my experience with various Tibetans over a few decades leads me to believe that what happened there wasn't good. But this is not an emotional issue for me at all. Shit happens. No big deal.

I really like Putin's speeches a lot. I find everything from Xi or Chinese officials soporifically bland and rarely get through more than 2-3 paragraphs! But that's just me.

All best.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 7 2022 21:56 utc | 49

Scorpion | Dec 7 2022 20:06 utc | 37

Everything I have read says it's an inactivated virus vaccine not mrna gene therapy.

To be clear this is for Sinovacs Coronavac Vaccine, I assume this is the vaccine in question. AFAIK this is the only Cov19 vaccine Sinovac produce.

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 7 2022 22:08 utc | 50

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 7 2022 22:08 utc | 53

This is a list of vaccines approved for use in China.

But in general the whole population is vaccinated with the inactivated type by Sinopharm and Sinovac.

The military uses CanSino which was the very first Chinese vaccine used. It's limited to military, states employees who need to travel outside China, and friendly military of other countries.

Very little is known about this vaccine but I suspect it's highly effective given the secrecy level of it.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202212/1281267.shtml

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 22:14 utc | 51

I was watching China from early 2020. They diagnosed covid at that time by CT scan of the lungs. Only a ground glass appearance of the lungs combined with an obviously ill person made a covid diagnosis.
But now they are using the PCR tests which proved so unreliable? That is a step backward.

It was also China that released the research that showed that outdoor transmission was not a thing in the spread of covid. They studied thousands of people and found only one case, which was when two people were nose to nose talking for 20 minutes. This study was released in spring of 2020, as I recall. So why lock people in their houses now?

Surely at risk elderly people can be handled by delivering food and other supplies to them as needed. They most likely are not in the workplace, I assume.

Children at not at risk of severe disease, as we know from the past 3 years of evidence. Why crack down on schools?

The whole Going Backwards thing seems weird to me.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 7 2022 22:15 utc | 52

@ leaf | Dec 7 2022 16:50 utc | 2

Chinese governments/Emperors/Rulers have regularly changed going back multiple millenia.

Taiping rebellion was close to succeeding in 1850 -mid 1860's, until G7_+1 Imperialists interceded to crush it, to maintain the weak Qing dynasty as it's suborned enslaved puppet vassal.

CPC honors the social/political(excluding religious craziness) of Taiping revolt as a neo/proto-communist revolutionary movement that almost succeeded.

Only have to demonstrate to the Chinese nation, they have lost the, 'Mandate of Heaven'.

Takes about ~3-5% of the population to fully commit, ie openly put their lives on the line.

With current ~1.4Billion population, only need to rally, publicly, openly 110% committed citizens of, oh about ~42,000,000 - ~70,000,000 ...

Yeah, given Chinas internal rise, and it's citizens well-being along with it, over only last 30 years, gonna happen any day now ... NOT.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 7 2022 22:16 utc | 53

For years, NYT, BBC, CNN & Co has been telling their Western readers/audience that CCP is "tyrant", Xi "dictator", Chinese people living under fear and dear not to protest.

Now, NYT & Co are telling us that "... the Chinese government announced a broad rollback of those rules on Wednesday, an implicit concession to public discontent after mass street protests in late November ..."

Only pathological liars can write this type of "news" with straight face.

Western MSM' journalists, like NYT's Li Yuan (her name on the twitter screenshot showed on the link b provided here), were/are on the so-called anti-covit "protestors' contact list. That's why NYT wants to take the credit for itself as the champion of "Color of Revolution".

Posted by: lulu | Dec 7 2022 22:21 utc | 54

As I've said before, I suspect the Chinese maintained the lockdown while waiting for a pan-coronavirus vaccine and oral vaccines to minimize infection and transmission to be developed. Since the US is dragging its feet in that area, I suspect the Chinese are developing their own.

Eric Topol says this is the way forward, as taking a new shot every 4-6 months to deal with the ever-emerging immune-escape variants is a non-starter. I just had my fifth shot Monday. Meanwhile, masking, hand washing, and distancing are still advisable as long as new cases are still in the tens of thousands daily, and I'm sure the Chinese will be doing those more than the typical US moron.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 7 2022 22:27 utc | 55

@ Richard Steven Hack | Dec 7 2022 22:27 utc | 58

Concur. Same here, & enforced protocols for my carers/supports.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 7 2022 22:42 utc | 56

Thank you Surferket for your on the ground report. Sounds like capitalism to me. Profiteering from government decrees and handouts is how we roll in the US.
My friend tells me that the Chinese thought at first that the virus had escaped from the Wuhan lab.
That explains the massive response. Cancelling of Chinese New Year, lockdown in Wuhan, building 3 new hospitals in a week. Wow! I figured it must be a bad disease (not knowing then that they thought it was an escaped virus).
But for those completely brainwashed barflies who do not realize that pandemics do not last forever, and having a disease provides you with immunity, and as it turns out, the death rate of this disease is very low, calm down please.
China no longer thinks the virus escaped from the Wuhan lab, hence the joint statement this Feb with Russia demanding an honest investigation of its origin.
Pandemics don't last longer than one or two years, IF they are natural. China smashed SARS 1 back at the beginning of this century and they actually smashed SARS 2 by the spring of 2020. Western Africa smashed Ebola in 2014, although we in the west were assured that it would spread worldwide and we were all GOING TO DIE! (I'm assuming that our paranoid barflies wrapped their houses in saran wrap back then.)

According to the Russian MoD (thanks to Peter for preserving his report) this pandemic should have been over by now, and the fact that new "variants" keep springing up in various places is suspicious.
In other words, the release of bioweapons is ongoing, and the attempts to mitigate them will never work until we focus on shutting down all the bioweapon research labs on the planet. So focus, people focus!

Quoting from the MoD:
"According to our experts, this is reflected in the variability uncharacteristic of most coronaviruses, resulting in different peaks in incidence, significant differences in lethality and infectivity, uneven geographic spread, and the unpredictability of the epidemic process overall. Despite efforts to contain and isolate cases, the pandemic appears to be being artificially fueled by the exposure of new variants of the virus to this or that region."

Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 7 2022 22:44 utc | 57

In terms of mortality rate, COVID-19 was no worse than the Asian flu and Hong Kong flu pandemics from the '60s and '70s. And considerably more innocent than the Spanish flu.

But the measures against it were unprecedented, this can only be ascribed to (media-fueled) hysterics.

Fortunately, no hysterics last forever. And while it takes longer in some countries than in others, it seems even in China people are finally starting to calm down.

Posted by: Taiphon | Dec 7 2022 22:49 utc | 58

Nice to see the authentic display of values--money over people's lives--demonstrated upthread, which was precisely my point. I expect the future will value human lives far above money and profits, thus the judgement rendered will demonstrate the pandemic's heinous criminal aspects and the West's total lack of morality.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 7 2022 22:50 utc | 59

Top tip: don’t get your China info from zero hedge.

Posted by: bonks | Dec 7 2022 21:42 utc | 50

Many of the articles are republished from Epoch Times, which has an Agenda.

Also ZH reflects a pro-investment bias.

It is my belief that China is not opening up their Financial Sector to foreign investment (influence) in a manner that the Global Masters of the Universe want. That is the root cause of the current rift between the US/EU and China, not the usual nonsense about human rights.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 7 2022 22:53 utc | 60

Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 7 2022 22:44 utc | 60

In March 2020 China demanded US explained the strange sickness of US soldiers in Wuhan October 2019 during the World Military Games wherein US didn't win anything. What then was their purpose in attending the games? After the games the French military said many of their soldiers got sick with something they picked up then.

Believe me, right at the start of the Wuhan lockdown the Chinese knew it was caused by the USVirus. My wife said her lab people told her that. I met a lab technician later and she said the same thing. Back then at the start Iran has a strange outbreak right at the same time as Wuhan and several top Iranian officials died. Iran openly said it was a US bioweapon attack.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 22:58 utc | 61

People seems to think the C19 today is the exact same C19 that first appeared in Wuhan back in December 2019.
That's unscientific and lack of understanding of mutations. The strict lockdowns back then stopped the spread of C19 across China and minimised total deaths to less than 5400.

Today's variant is much less lethal but more infectious. So a different approach must be undertakened.

This explains the difference between vthe original strain and the current strain causing the outbreaks in China today.
Note the last sentence. That's the current outbreak.

""Amid the outbreak of the original COVID-19 virus and Delta strains, more than half of the infected individuals developed pneumonia, and even more than 60 percent of the patients had different pulmonary manifestations.
More than 90 percent of the outbreaks have been asymptomatic and mild cases, with few cases of pneumonia and even fewer cases of severe pneumonia,"

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202212/1281286.shtml

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202212/1280880.shtml

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 23:26 utc | 62

Logic dictates that you read what China says is happening in China then what the west is saying is happening in China.

So read this if you want to know how fast China is moving to loosening the restrictions. The big cities are always the first prime movers to start and show the way for the smaller cities to follow.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/china/society/index.html

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 23:28 utc | 63

Btw, NYT's Li Yuan used to work for Xinhua News Agency.

Most of China's media and journalists have been brainwashed by Western MSM, worship NYT, BBC (now days to less degree) and mimic NYT/BBc writing style in terms of manupilating information and inciting division to instigate anti-Chinese government sentiment.

The typical representatives are Caixin(财新), and The Paper(澎湃), the worts of all is BJnews(新京报). They think they're "enlightened by the Western/US democratic value", need to educate Chinese people and act as the power to counter CPC government.

Caixin's founder and editor-in-chief, Hu Shuli, who used to sit on Reuter's international edit board, was selected:

- the most powerful commentator by FT;
- "Ten Women to Watch" in Asia by WSJ;
- top 50 for achievement and influence in business by Forbes
- top 100 public intellectuals in the world by Foreign Policy.

Caixin also gets some fund from Bill Gates Foundation.

Caixin(财新) set Dr. Li Wenliang as the whistleblower to shame and bash CCP and instigate the angry mass against CCP at the beginning of Covid in Wuhan.

This is a "masterpiece" of work by Caixin(财新), supported and spread by The Paper(澎湃), BJnews(新京报) and Nanfang Xi media(南方系媒体). Then it was picked up and recylced by NYT, CNN, BBC & Co

(As I wrote in early 2020 with details that it was Dr. Zhang Jixian who reported the "strange pneumonia cases" already on Dec. 27, 2019, way ahead of what Dr. Li told to his WeChat inner circle around 18:00 on Dec. 30 after the Wuhan Health Commission took action earlier on Dec. 30.)

Let me warn you: If the Covid infection spreads quickly and old people get caught and die after China's shift of strict "dynamic zero-covid measures", you can be assured that Caixin & Co will act up again in China with support from NTY & Co in the West, plus Taiwan/US cyber shill army that is swarming Chinese social media.

Be awar when you read Chinse media such Caixin & Co.

Posted by: lulu | Dec 7 2022 23:28 utc | 64

Remember when China Foreign Affairs team met with Blinken and blob in Alaska?
A shabby venue… not much in the way of protocol and prestige.
And then Blinken proceeded to lecture China.
Wang Yi gave a Reply… which was diplomatic enough, but blunt for China?
So. This week in Saudi. Xi Jinping *himself* made the trip.
And. The Saudi King. (Who looks old and in poor health… and rarely extends himself to public events). He personally came to welcome and greet.
The Chinese were given a flyby by Saudi airforce….
ALLL the trappings and tricks and treats of an Important State Visit.

And remember Jussie crapping his pants after attempting to bully Xi at the G20.
Saudi wants to join BRICS. Wooing China adds a bit of lube.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 7 2022 23:29 utc | 65

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 7 2022 22:53 utc | 63

China is moving up to opening various financial sectors to foreign investment but under state directions.

Many people, even people who are pro CPC China, missed this. It was Mao who formulated the idea of using capitalists to enrich the state and the people. That's why China didn't jumped straight into making China a fully communist state, ala Soviet Union, but a socialist state with mix capital and state enterprises.
Way back in 1949 when the CPC just concluded the Second Chinese Civil War against the KMT.

Mao:

"The present-day capitalist economy in China is a capitalist economy which for the most part is under the control of the People's Government and which is linked with the state-owned socialist economy in various forms and supervised by the workers. It is not an ordinary but a particular kind of capitalist economy, namely, a state-capitalist economy of a new type. It exists not chiefly to make profits for the capitalists but to meet the needs of the people and the state. True, a share of the profits produced by the workers goes to the capitalists, but that is only a small part, about one quarter, of the total. The remaining three quarters are produced for the workers (in the form of the welfare fund), for the state (in the form of income tax) and for expanding productive capacity (a small part of which produces profits for the capitalists). Therefore, this state-capitalist economy of a new type takes on a socialist character to a very great extent and benefits the workers and the state."

"The national bourgeoisie at the present stage is of great importance. Imperialism, a most ferocious enemy, is still standing alongside us. China's modern industry still forms a very small proportion of the national economy. No reliable statistics are available, but it is estimated, on the basis of certain data, that before the War of Resistance Against Japan the value of output of modern industry constituted only about 10 per cent of the total value of output of the national economy. To counter imperialist oppression and to raise her backward economy to a higher level, China must utilize all the factors of urban and rural capitalism that are beneficial and not harmful to the national economy and the people's livelihood; and we must unite with the national bourgeoisie in common struggle. Our present policy is to regulate capitalism, not to destroy it. But the national bourgeoisie cannot be the leader of the revolution, nor should it have the chief role in state power. The reason it cannot be the leader of the revolution and should not have the chief role in state power is that the social and economic position of the national bourgeoisie determines its weakness; it lacks foresight and sufficient courage and many of its members are afraid of the masses."

(From a 1949 statement)

"https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-5/mswv5_30.htm"

"https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-4/mswv4_65.htm"

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 23:34 utc | 66

In China, you can't change the government but you can change the policy. In the West, you can change the government but not the policy.

Posted by: leaf@2
-----------------------

This my favorite quote from Eric Li(from 1.11'), an entreprneur from Shanghai.

He also said in this video that "In China, capital does not rise above the political authority. Capital does not have the enshrined right. In America, the interets of the capital and capital itself has risen above the American nation."

Posted by: lulu | Dec 7 2022 23:45 utc | 67

I just had my fifth shot Monday. Meanwhile, masking, hand washing, and distancing are still advisable as long as new cases are still in the tens of thousands daily, and I'm sure the Chinese will be doing those more than the typical US moron.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 7 2022 22:27 utc | 58

Pfizer, ModeRNA and J&J shareholders thank you for your continued support even as reports of vaccine efficacy decline dramatically from the initially promised 95%.

https://www.canadiancovidcarealliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/The-COVID-19-Inoculations-More-Harm-Than-Good-REV-Dec-16-2021.pdf

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 7 2022 23:48 utc | 68

Be awar when you read Chinse media such Caixin & Co.

Posted by: lulu | Dec 7 2022 23:28 utc | 67

Thanks. With Reuters and Gates in their orbit, I'll take a pass on Caixin and return to not following much news on China.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 7 2022 23:49 utc | 69

Dismaying to read a thread here in which government propaganda and pharma propaganda is swallowed whole. So long as scary virus exists we will bow to our masters. Basically most here are authoritarians.

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 8 2022 0:08 utc | 70

Surferket, just read your many posts, thanks so much for taking the time to do that.

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 8 2022 0:10 utc | 71

Let me clear the air about some misconceptions about lockdowns in China.

True that lockdowns started in February 2020 all across China. But by April 2020 the USVirus was largely crushed and most parts of China were living a very normal pre C19 life without masks. Yes we do t wear masks as if we were born with it.
There were sporadic outbreaks in 2021 due to millions of overseas Chinese cribbing for safety of home.
Delta was brought into Guangzhou in October 2021 and immediately 2 not elderly died.
For brief moments we went back to wear masks as outbreaks happened in Shijiazhuang, a city relatively near us. After their outbreaks life wrnt back to normal for us.
We didn't have any lockdowns and need to do regular nucleic acid tests. Nope.
Then Shanghai fumbled badly in December 2021 with their complete initial Lie Down approach and their outbreak spread all over China. Huge Lockdowns started.
My district was lockdowned for 20 days even though there were no outbreaks in our district but in the next district of our city.
Even then no mass testing.

It was this current outbreak that started in Beijing and spread all over China that local municipal govts began excessive and harsh measures of physically locking residents into their homes, chain locking apartment buildings, locking fire exits. Mass daily nucleic acid testings everyday even for residents under continuous lockdowns. Many reports of people died of fire in buildings illegally padlocked.

These are everything Beijing said local govts are not to do but they still did it.
I saw everything excessive and illegal happened to me personally. I have photos to prove it.

I used to support the earlier lockdowns because I understood their purposes then we're to save lives and protect the people.

But this time, it was obvious that some local govts were profiting personally by abusing lockdown and mass testing, centralised isolation, positive test results. Common sense will tell you how they made huge sums of money there.

Explain how people under lockdown confined to their homes for 10 days can test positive. That's a clear giveaway on abusing test results. And the large numbers of "abnormal" results requiring further tests.
Over last 2 years these didn't happen. But suddenly this time they do. Clearly there's a huge scam going on.
Now nobody trust the test results anymore.

Remember the state pays for everything. It's trillions RMB every year and some people finally wised up to suck the flow because they don't have to itemise the bills to Beijing.
Yes in the past there were illegal locking people in their homes but back then it was not so widespread as what happened recently. There was simply no clear reasons to do so in my estate. No reason to suddenly move hundreds of the building residents into centralised isolation just because of 1 infected case on the very top floor of the building. Suddenly we were all classified as "Close contact" like we personally shook hands with the infected person. The municipal govts also shut down supermarkets and wholesale food centers. Those are again what Beijing said cannot do.

Remember state pays for everyone on centralised isolation. About RMB¥3,500 per head. Remember there's such a thing as kickbacks.

It was very obvious some officials were abusing lockdowns, mass testing, centralised isolation, fake positives, to make money from the state.

That's why the huge public anger. And then Beijing put their foot down and issued the 20 Optimised Measures. People took it and protested against their local govts.
Our lockdown was silently lifted on Monday even though today our municipal govt has not issued a formal notice of lifting.

So the huge protests were only recent because of clear abuses by the municipal govts, and today have largely died down as lockdowns care lifted everywhere.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 8 2022 0:13 utc | 72

200 people a day are dying from COVID in Japan. Without comment by the imperialist MSM. But Japan is a centrepiece of the US human rights values offensive against Russia and PRC. NATO and the EU are collapsing with the latest news from Germany. I hope everyone commenting here in Germany in the bar is OK. Stay safe.

Posted by: Paul McGrory | Dec 8 2022 0:15 utc | 73

Little factoid on China viz their banking system (from the Ehret booklet):

The Revival of the New Silk Road 2013- Present It was in the face of this existential threat that Xi Jinping emerged as the new leader of China and a historic crackdown of party corruption on all levels Federal, Provincial and Municipal was begun in force[8] while Xi’s 2013 announcement of the Belt and Road Initiative in Kazakhstan[9] revived the New Silk Road/Eurasian land bridge policy of 15 years earlier.

This strategy quickly moved from an idea into a powerful reality as China’s state banking system (one of the only to have avoided privatization over the past century) began unleashing large scale credit for infrastructure both within its own borders, and globally to a scale never before seen in human history.

The importance of China’s national banks cannot be overstated. Among the most important of China’s robust state banking system are the following four categories: 1. Policy Banks (Agricultural Development Bank of China (ADBC), China Development Bank (CDB), Export-Import Bank of China (CHEXIM)) 2. State Owned Banks (Agricultural Bank of China (ABC), Bank of China (BOC), China Construction Bank (CCB), Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (ICBC) 3. State Owned Funds (China Investment Corporation (CIC), Silk Road Fund (SRF) 4. International Financing Institutions (Asian Development Bank (ADB) Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB), New Development Bank (NDB).

I read a few years ago that the Chinese banking system was plugged into the BIS cartel. Certainly the early 80s-90s development was facilitated by that network (to the detriment of US and other workers in the manufacturing sectors). This report seems to indicate otherwise.

Does anyone here know for sure if the Chinese banking system is entirely independent or a part of the BIS/City international central banking credit cartel?

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 8 2022 0:19 utc | 74

Scorpion @ 37:

Sinovac is an inactivated-virus vaccine: this type of vaccine uses a dead virus to activate the immune response. The pathogen is normally grown in a culture under controlled conditions and then heated to kill it.

Such vaccines often generate a weaker immune response than other types of vaccines and this is perhaps why for most people Sinovac has been given in an initial course of two shots given at least a calendar month apart, followed by a booster later on. That the vaccination regime resembles those of other COVID-19 injections might just be coincidence or health officials introducing some sort of consistency in anticipation of other vaccines coming onto the market that require an initial series of two shots followed by periodic boosters.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 8 2022 0:23 utc | 75

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 7 2022 23:48 utc | 71

Just read Israeli msm. They are hilariously honest in reporting on how useless western P&M are in protecting against C19 despite 4 or more jabs.
But being part of the Empire the Israelis have no option to use other vaccines because of the vaccine misinformation campaign US did on Russian and Chinese vaccines.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 8 2022 0:24 utc | 76

I like China's approach overtime. Glad to hear many there now refer to it as the US Virus.

One of the worst things about Covid-19 in Australia was businesses/corps making vaccinations mandatory for employees, especially customer fronting like retail, and if not you were sacked. After working in high risk jobs for catching covid for 2+ years the refusnix were booted out of work with no recourse or severance pay.

That was extremely abhorrent abuse of power - why nothing was done to stop it (court cases or by govt regulation) was really weak. They were doing that this year in March easter time long after the severity of the virus eased. The govt itself never placed mandates on vaccinations, except for health/aged care situations iirc. It was beyond govts power to do so .... iow Corporations are now more powerful than the govt is in labour laws. No surorise.

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 8 2022 0:27 utc | 77

Does anyone here know for sure if the Chinese banking system is entirely independent or a part of the BIS/City international central banking credit cartel?

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 8 2022 0:19 utc | 77

Yes it is independent. Yes it is part of the cartel.
https://www.bis.org/about/member_cb.htm

http://www.pbc.gov.cn/english/130712/index.html

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 8 2022 0:28 utc | 78

Bonks @ 50, Opportunity Knocks @ 63:

The Epoch Times (source of many articles reposted on Zero Hedge) was founded and is run by people affiliated with the Falun Gong cult.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 8 2022 0:29 utc | 79

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 8 2022 0:27 utc | 80

My wife is a state nurse and in her hospital there are doctors and nurses who are not vaccinated. So they don't get assigned to places where they are exposed to possible infection.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 8 2022 0:32 utc | 80

Here in Shenzhen news of the new arrangements reached us last night (Wednesday) and came as a great surprise. It had seemed in the previous week that the approach was, while removing most of the testing requirement, to firmly strengthen the place and health code monitoring.

Downstairs in our apartment block hitherto the entry doors were mostly left open but in the past week new equipment is being installed (installation not yet complete) which requires scanning of place code on to and registering the health code from the phone, and also using the door key card to pass through gates.

Yesterday we walked over to Nanyuan urban village. This is one of scores of old settlements which existed before the colossal growth of Shenzhen post-1980 (the myth that Shenzhen grew out of a single fishing village is just that). They are mostly single storey homes and low rise (5 floor) 1990s blocks which cannot be easily locked down, so the approach there with even just one single case has been to lock down the entire settlement. We had to pass through two checkpoints amounting to the same rigmarole as was being set up in our block. This has all been recently installed and presumably is already scrap metal.

So while the original 20 list was long known: it was said months ago that there would be considerable relaxing after the November congress, and Lu Ren Jia (Dec 7 2022 17:02 utc | 12) is undoubtedly correct that the protests were organized by we know who and timed in full knowledge of the fact. But this new development is definitely a sudden acceleration of the relaxation.

As to what some commenters have predicted about a disastrous outcome, I must say that my opinion was changed last week in the light of statistics coming out of the recent spike in Guangzhou. Of something like 169,000 cases, 90% were said to be asymptomatic (could they be mainly false positives?); four were severely ill and nobody died. If that is what it has come to, I thought, then let’s be free of the restrictions.

Seems some China-based commenters are so excited that they have been up all night. I got up at 7.30 am and started this comment straight away. Yes, there is great joy here today. We are planning to start travelling again within China and will spend Chunjie in Yunnan province, based in Xishuangbanna. To quote B. Johnson, something I have never done before: “Freedom day!“

Posted by: Walt | Dec 8 2022 0:36 utc | 81

@ bonks 50 , I am confused by this --

China never enforces covid vaccines on the public, not even for inbound citizens and foreigners.
versus
Without the vaccine they wouldn’t let me back into the country. ??

What did you mean?

and @83
So they don't get assigned to places where they are exposed to possible infection.

Too rational :)
Thanks surferket

[ what a horrid 3 years it has been for all everywhere. ]

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 8 2022 0:36 utc | 82

NATO and the EU are collapsing with the latest news from Germany. I hope everyone commenting here in Germany in the bar is OK. Stay safe.

Posted by: Paul McGrory | Dec 8 2022 0:15 utc | 76

Huh? Do you mean the anti-terror action? The alleged coup? Don't worry, that's more or less fake news, those people couldn't have done any harm whatsoever and since the media was invited to the action, this is more a show than anything else...

And for me personally: I will stay warm for this and next winter. 4000 litres of oil in my basement plus a couple hundred litres diesel to power the generator in my garage...

Oh, and a big thank you to Surferket for the insights. I would love to move to China...

Posted by: Zet | Dec 8 2022 1:00 utc | 83

Surferket @69--

Thanks for that citation. That's the basis for the Sino-Soviet Split.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2022 1:13 utc | 84

Here is the Sun version of the story, "GREAT FALL OF CHINA ‘Weakened’ President Xi faces being toppled in coup after humiliating Covid climbdown, warns ex-diplomat"

Who is this 'ex-diplomat', Gordon Chang :-)?

If people in the U.S. / EU and the govt responds to it (never actua

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Dec 8 2022 1:19 utc | 85

Cont. If people in the U.S. / EU and the govt responds to it (never actually happens), it is democracy in action. If something like this happens in China or Iran, it's the 'end of the regime', because the govt is showing weakness by listening to their own citizens.

Projection anyone?

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Dec 8 2022 1:21 utc | 86

@25 Opport Knocks: what are your measures to prevent flu/cold?

Posted by: Rudi Ruessel | Dec 8 2022 1:28 utc | 87

The key mistake that China made was not to replicate the methods that India and most African states used to virtually eliminate the Western COVID Plandemic. Fortunately, China did use an inactivated real vaccine rather than experimental gene "therapy" jab.

I understand that "B" would be censored for the mention of the mechanism of such successes by countries that did not use the experimental mRNA jabs. The West is essentially living in Plato's cave and any excursion outside the Overton window is not allowed.

We are truly seeing the death of the Western experiment...

Posted by: Krollchem | Dec 8 2022 2:03 utc | 88

.

Posted by: Josh | Dec 7 2022 19:33 utc | 31
Sounds like the protesters won to me

It's Beijing won. The protests were whipped up by Beijing against foot dragging local municipal govts that actually have direct life and death powers over their residents than faraway Beijing.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 7 2022 19:38 utc | 32

Thank you Surferket. This highlights a fundamental misunderstanding in the West, and even in their foreign policy circles that should know better.

They would find it much easier to understand if they knew of the deep rooted Chinese cultural attitude of the "good emperor in Beijing, and the bad governor/magistrate of the local county". Chinese culture abounds with stories of how a local peasant, feeling aggrieved at the injustice and conditions in his local village, travels a thousand miles to Beijing to petition the Emperor for justice.

Today, Western MSM peddles the notion that protests such as these are about the common people rising up against the hated CPC/CCP. Westerners would be really surprised to learn that Beijing is actually seen as the hero and champion of the people by the regular folks on the street.

Posted by: littlereddot | Dec 8 2022 2:09 utc | 89

Posted by: Jen | Dec 8 2022 0:23 utc | 78

Thanks for that info about the vaccine. If I get forced to take one, I'd like to check the Cuban one out first because they have a good rep with medication and hopefully developed something old school. These spike protein shots... I dunno!

@ walt: sounds like people are going to be having more normal life again. Neat. Thanks for yr report.

About these checkpoints: will these scan for those who are up to date with vaccines, and/or have had a negative test if required or what? Are they going to be all over China entering and leaving various delineated zones (like apartment complexes, buses, banks etc)?

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 8 2022 2:12 utc | 90

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 7 2022 23:48 utc | 71

I'm also well aware of the studies showing booster shots continuing to provide 80-95% protection against hospitalization and death, which is what matters.

If you don't know what's going on, follow Eric Topol's Substack, "Ground Truths", which almost daily provides the latest studies and statistics from around the world: https://erictopol.substack.com/

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 8 2022 2:13 utc | 91

If a person wants the SinoVac Coronavac vaccine, where in SE Asia can they get it?

Thailand?
Philippines?
Malaysia?
Vietnam?

At any hospital or only special locations?

Posted by: babag | Dec 8 2022 2:16 utc | 92

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 8 2022 1:54 utc | 91

Pretty much an accurate description of the situation. Well said. The Covid and vaccine deniers are the same sort of people who talk about "Russiagate", "Ukraine is winning", the 2020 election was stolen, that a world-wide pedophile ring runs out of a pizza parlor, and that Trump is our Savior. Currently the conspiracy theory is "excess deaths are being caused by the vaccines" and "it's all a depopulation plot." Even Gonzalo Lira is dumb enough to fall for that.

To quote "Blazing Saddles": "You know, morons."

This is not to say that the pharmaceutical companies didn't rip people off, that the government didn't hand out money to their cronies, that corruption and incompetence weren't rampant. But that has nothing to do with the virus.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 8 2022 2:22 utc | 93

In China, you can't change the government but you can change the policy. In the West, you can change the government but not the policy.
....

Posted by: leaf | Dec 7 2022 16:50 utc | 2

Yep. 'Wesern'-style Mock Democracy in fewer than 30 words. You could have stopped right there....

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 8 2022 2:29 utc | 94

Here is the Sun version of the story...
Posted by: Christian Chuba | Dec 8 2022 1:19 utc | 88

===========================

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/police-wearing-hazmat-suits-detain-769732240.jpg?w=670

This is a picture in the article, a bunch of 'riot police' (really?) in Hazmat suits subduing a person. It's not a good look.

Is China the only sane country treating the disease with the caution it merits whilst the rest of the world was mad? Many would say yes...

Or is China in a state of permanent mass formation such that groups of officials walking around outside in the fresh air in streets in Hazmat suits is perceived as perfectly reasonable, even life-saving, behavior? Many others would say yes...

Re the SUN headline: The Great Wall of China:

Each side has the narratives they need. The narratives for the West for the masses are incredibly cartoonish, sort of like 'Orange Man Bad' level propaganda. Putin is dying of cancer, Putin is about to lose, the Russians are about to overthrow him etc. and same stuff about China including how they seeded the virus for the rest of the world by only closing Wuhan area down AFTER the big travel week for New Year and people had flown from there all over the world, the busiest flight week world wide each year...etc etc

Meanwhile the other side has its stories too, probably slightly different ones for different levels of education/class: the West is evil and dead, they seeded the virus in China, they are invading Ukraine, they threaten us all etc etc.

It doesn't matter what the truth is, just that the narratives one is told are officially sanctioned meaning one knows the correct way to think conformistically. Each side has its own diet. This way, both sides are happy. One is not supposed to read the stories both sides lest this engender doubts about the nature of reality!

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 8 2022 2:35 utc | 95

@25 Opport Knocks: what are your measures to prevent flu/cold?

Posted by: Rudi Ruessel | Dec 8 2022 1:28 utc | 90

I chew a tablespoon sized piece of raw yellow onion while breathing slowly and deeply in through the mouth and out through the nose.

If that is not for you, the Canadian Covid Care Alliance has a series of different preventative and therapeutic regimens recommended by their panel of medical doctors. It appears links to their site are blocked by the "one covid truth" police, so you will have to find it on your own.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 8 2022 2:45 utc | 96

Interesting times

A throwback imperial royalist coup attempt in the Union of German States. All hail the Prussian Reich "Kaiser Heinrich III" the legitimate imperial emperor of the Union of Germanic States! War with France begins in......

A South Amerikan country called P... arrests it's own legally elected by a peon landslide President. Who is calling for constitutional reform to erase USSA's illegal cash by a bucket load of air dollars interference in local elections? A fair redistribution to erase corrupt descendants of former colonial elites bribed with one cent in the air dollar(yes they are that easy to bribe)?
A well-known pro-USSA propaganda news site receives 10,000 plus news pieces per day. Has room for less than 80 articles between the ads. Well, editorial censorship takes care of the inconvenient 9,900 surplus articles.........

When you believe a paper that once proudly proclaimed man can never walk on the moon. Proudly published numerous reporters who told lies for a living. For a stipend of thirty pieces of silver!

Such is the life of a mindless zombie! Working for a publisher of generic 'z' grade trash propaganda since the 1890s. What can one say? Makes for a good cheap(free) day-old replacement for hard-to-obtain toilet paper!

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Dec 8 2022 2:51 utc | 97

"China Shifts Covid Policies As Previously Announced"

No, Xi Jinping had to make a cosmetic move: he still likes lockdowns, masks, hasmat suits etc. as a multipurpose tool a la WEF. Total control 1984 2.0 is his forte and Schwab & co admire him for it. A GPS phone with the dominant Weibo app combined with the Covid color code plus cctv cameras and CCTV news everywhere is a totalitarian's wet dream. Just instantly mark all phones in one protest area as covid RED and CCP problem solved. Who cares about this faux virus? He himself is seen many times without mask where all others are obliged; he had the LPA attack India in the Himalaya in May 2020 during initial Covid scare, without masks. A useful Wuhan mess distraction plus unilateral land grab combined. The wolf warrior at work.

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 8 2022 2:52 utc | 98

About these checkpoints: will these scan for those who are up to date with vaccines, and/or have had a negative test if required or what? Are they going to be all over China entering and leaving various delineated zones (like apartment complexes, buses, banks etc)?

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 8 2022 2:12 utc | 94

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. That was the plan last week. Now it's (I quote Vicky from SZ Daily on WeChat this morning):

10 new measures...patients with mild or no symptoms ..quarantine at home...scrapping negative nucleic acid test result and health code for entering public places except for designated places such as nursing homes...lifting COVID testing and health code requirement for domestic cross-regional travel.

Hence those new measures being put in place last week are redundant already.

The next stage will be the opening up of the crossing points to Hong Kong so that we can come and go again without restrictions. At present there is very little going in but still five days hotel quarantine and three days home quarantine (I think) coming back. I did it all a month ago. HK by the way shares a border with SZ. It would be nice to be able to do a bit of easy international travel too, Philippines etc, but all of this can wait till next summer...

So it's joy unconfined now as we really weren't expecting it yet. We just hope it can stay that way.

Posted by: Walt | Dec 8 2022 2:56 utc | 99

@ Opport Knocks | Dec 7 2022 18:10 utc | 25

“Your immune system requires exposure to bacteria and viruses to function. If you suppress that excessively (constant masking and isolation) you are suppressing your body's natural response. “

Whilst this may be the norm, there are well known exceptions:

...the measles virus can damage pre-existing immunological memory, destroying B lymphocytes and reducing the diversity of non-specific B cells of the infected host. In particular, this implies that previously acquired immunization from vaccination or direct exposition to other pathogens could be partially erased in a phenomenon named 'immune amnesia'...

What you seem to be supporting is what some people are ignorantly calling “immunity debt.” That discussion revolves around, in part, the increased sicknesses pin children requiring hospitalization, seemingly non-covid related.

But if one looks at the numbers and timeframes of exposure of young children currently acquiring RSV infections in the US, UK and Canada who become very ill, it is actually the children who escaped being exposed due to age and social measures who have the immunity assets to not become very sick.
So, immunity asset not immunity debt.

This is most probably because, contrary to the usual thinking which you express above, SarsCov2 infections, instead of boosting immunity, causes immune system dysfunction for months. Repeat infections compounds this immune system disregulation. The disease makes one more vulnerable to bacterial, viral and fungal infections, the short list —- for as long as 7 months after infection. Multiple covid infections? Not a sound practice for boosting one’s immune system imo.

Regarding the situation in China, since their vaccine is traditional, stimulating immunity to the núcleocapsid protein of the virus (which mutates less than the spike protein), it probably will provide longer lasting protection than big pharma’s EAU mRNA products, besides being more safe. I have more confidence in China’s scientific processes in arriving at solutions that will actually help people.
In the US just under $4 trillion is spent annually on so-called health care, more that half of all of the rest of the world spends combined, and yet US has mediocre results, 44th place. Kind of like the MIC — lots of money spent, bad results. Graft. Corruption. Bleeding the people to feed the corps.
=====

Covid infects and kills dendritic cells and lymphocytes (cells that are used in fighting infection) in the tonsils - where Strep A has attacked these children.

https://twitter.com/1goodtern/status/1598962289637412865

=====
“Immunological dysfunction persists for 8 months following initial mild-to-moderate SARS-CoV-2 infection”
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-021-01113-x

=====

“COVID-19 Impairs Immune Response to Candida albicans”
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2021.640644/full

=====
Opinion article 2020
“These facets depict SARS-Cov-2 as a lympho-manipulative pathogen; it distorts T cell function, numbers, and death, and creates a dysfunctional immune response. Whether preservation of T cells, prevention of their aberrant differentiation, and expansion of their population may alter disease course is unknown. Its investigation requires experimental interrogation.”
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.600405/full

Posted by: suzan | Dec 8 2022 2:56 utc | 100