Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 01, 2022

China - Protest Instigators And Zero-Covid Policies

Within the last two days the New York Times produced four anti-China opinion pieces:

All four predict doom for China and president Xi's leadership. In typical color-revolution fashion the sudden onslaught of these pieces follows recent reports of minor protests in some Chinese cities related to zero-Covid measures.

But the biggest recent protest was actually a labor conflict at a factory where the Taiwanese contract manufacturer Foxconn is producing iPhones:

A violent workers’ revolt at the world’s largest iPhone factory this week in central China is further scrambling Apple’s strained supply and highlighting how the country’s stringent zero-Covid policy is hurting global technology firms.

The troubles started last month when workers left the factory campus in Zhengzhou, the capital of the central province of Henan, due to Covid fears. Short on staff, bonuses were offered to workers to return.

But protests broke out this week when the newly hired staff said management had reneged on their promises. The workers, who clashed with security officers wearing hazmat suits, were eventually offered cash to quit and leave.

Within a day that labor conflict was largely resolved.

Other protests were mostly small symbolic events carefully designed to get some media attention in the 'West'.


bigger

For a huge country like China the total number of protests was laughable small:

Nathan Ruser @Nrg8000 - 23:17 UTC · Nov 30, 2022

For our China Protest Tracker map, we tracked reports of 7 protests that took place across China on November 29th. Totalling 51 protests since November 25th, across 24 cities. See the third edition of our map.

There are signs of foreign meddling:

Angelo Giuliano 🇮🇹 🇨🇭/ living in 🇨🇳 @Angelo4justice3 - 3:08 AM · Nov 30, 2022

Telegram Channel / protests China
They have open channel with Western journalists, here is the list.
Here a list of organisers, all based outside China.
Sydney Daddy one of them, YouTuber based in Australia.
So much for "organic" movement.

Covid protest YES, foreign meddling NO
Image

To me this looks as if some 'western' color-revolution instigators are trying to hitch a ride with reasonable protests against some zero-Covid measures. They are likely to fail.

Exactly three years ago Wuhan reported the first case of an unknown type of pneumonia. China had since then adopted a whatever-it-takes stand against the spread of Covid. While the zero-Covid measures at times seem harsh they are also a necessity. The Chinese medical system is still underdeveloped and can not handle large outbreaks in multiple big cities. Not all Chinese elderly are vaccinated. A free running epidemic would cost several million lives and would leave tens of millions hampered with long-Covid conditions.

That is unsatisfying for the young who are unlikely to die of Covid-19 but have to live with the zero-Covid restrictions. But China is a Confucian society. People in China are traditionally valuing their elderly. China's constitution makes care for the elderly in ones family an obligation for every Chinese citizen:

Article 49 Marriage, families, mothers and children shall be protected by the state.

Both husband and wife shall have the obligation to practice family planning. Parents shall have the obligation to raise and educate their minor children; adult children shall have the obligation to support and assist their parents. Infringement of the freedom of marriage is prohibited; mistreatment of senior citizens, women and children is prohibited.

China can therefore not open up and let the pandemic run its course. Its government would likely see more protest than now should it suddenly decide to fully open up and to let the elderly die.

But China can, as Peter Lee predicted, modify its current policies.

chinahand @chinahand - 12:54 UTC · Nov 30, 2022

My prediction that CCP crabwalking to a new covid policies (w/ collateral political and public health implications) holding up rather well. Subscription required!

Less Than Zero...Covid - Peter Lee's China Threat Report on Patreon.

Two weeks ago the Chinese National Health Commission had already announced 20 new guidelines.

What it can further do to avoid more demonstrations and unrest is to apply sensible zero-Covid measures in a less restricting way. Some local governments have already reacted to some of the protests:

Chinese cities including Beijing, Guangzhou and Chengdu, where the virus is rife, have continued to optimize their anti-epidemic policies in recent days, with Guangzhou resuming businesses, allowing dine-in services in low-risk areas; and shopping malls gradually opening in Beijing starting Thursday. Some cities have also started to allow close contacts to have home quarantine under certain conditions and exempt some groups from routine nucleic tests.

Chinese Vice Premier Sun Chunlan underlined again on Thursday the importance of continuously optimizing China's response to COVID-19, following similar remarks she made on Wednesday saying the country is facing a new situation and new tasks in epidemic prevention and control as the pathogenicity of the Omicron virus weakens.

Epidemiologists said such optimized measures aims to strike a better balance between COVID-19 control and ensuring people's normal lives. Allowing home quarantine for some risk groups also relieves pressure of already strained hospital resources.

China wants to hold out as "the pathogenicity of the Omicron virus weakens."

The Omicron variant seems to be more transmissible but less lethal than the original version of SARS-CoV-2 or the delta variant. But we do not know if it will further develop in that direction. New variants are found on a nearly daily basis. If China can hold out for another years until an even milder variant becomes prominent it probably can avoid a huge number of deaths.

Some economist predict that China will open up around the mid of next year:

China is expected to fully lift its Covid restrictions in the third quarter of 2023, leading to a dramatic economic rebound, said Hu Yifan, regional chief investment officer and chief China economist at UBS Global Wealth Management.

The estimate echoes a forecast by Bloomberg economists, who said they expect a full reopening by mid-2023. A survey by Bloomberg News earlier this month showed that most economists see reopening starting in the second quarter of 2023 after China’s annual top political meetings.

The Chinese government has given no public indication on the timing of an exit from the current “zero-Covid” pandemic control policy, although some municipal governments recently eased controls.

The Times writer who hope for some revolution in China will likely be disappointed.

China's economy is doing reasonably well. The people are mostly content with reasonable health measure and everything else is negotiable.

'Western' op-ed writers like to paint picture of China as a dictatorship suppressing its people. But that is not what China is.

Posted by b on December 1, 2022 at 17:11 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page | next page »

Posted by: PureBlood | Dec 2 2022 2:48 utc | 98

Not so.

I have the choice to live in the Philippines, where I have a permanent residence visa, and of course the UK, land of my birth, but I choose to live in China. I have experience of all three and make an informed choice. You, I suspect have never been to China and you clearly know nothing about it and so your opinions are of no value.

Posted by: Walt | Dec 2 2022 2:57 utc | 101

@psychohistorian | Dec 1 2022 17:24 utc | 1


What I don't understand is why China is seemingly not implementing Ivermectin and/or Chinese Traditional Medicine approaches which would further undermine the mRNA Western vector.

Chinese National Health Commission (NHC) collects and summarizes the information about COVID-19 diagnosis and treatments with western medical practice and Chinese medicine approach since the beginning. NHC keeps updating the document as appropriate. If I recall correctly, it was updated more frequently (like once every several days) at the peak of the initial outbreak in Wuhan, China. This document was also distributed all over China from NHC to the related agencies at provincial and local levels.

The latest Chinese version that I can find is v.9, which is available in PDF at the link.

The latest English version that I can find is v.7 which is available in PDF via the link from Chinese consulate-general in Busan, South Korea.

To me, this document provides useful information. Hope this helps.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Dec 2 2022 3:02 utc | 102

Maybe the "China fluffers" here need to watch more of these...

https://twitter.com/ClownWorld_/status/1598168061169000448

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 2 2022 3:07 utc | 103

@Walt

Walt,

i've been to China multiple times and worked with Chinese people when transferring technology from US to China. So I have some experience with them. I don't care where you live or lived,, it's your choice but when you glorify nazi style treatment by your adopted authorities there is something wrong with you. I don't want to argue. Have fun with your social score and another clot shot (jab). Good night.

Posted by: PureBlood | Dec 2 2022 3:09 utc | 104

Walt, can you please explain to me how the existence of the Covid "virus" has been proven according to Koch's postulates, which is the gold standard among virologists?

Your trust in pharmaceutical companies and government "experts" is touching.

I say this in all sincerity: I want you to keep taking booster shots.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Dec 2 2022 3:10 utc | 105

b: "For a huge country like China the total number of protests was laughable small"

For an 1984 2.0 nation with facial recognition cctv on every 5G corner and GPS mobile phones without cash and covid software? Orwell didn't count on those gadgets.

b and Xi still believe in Santa Claus/ deadly Covid for different reasons:

the main reasons for China’s continued lockdown:

1) Xi Jinping doesn’t want to lose face to all Chinese as being wrong on Covid. Then he might be wrong on any other topic.
2) Xi Jinping uses the lockdowns to squeeze the last pockets of resistance against his Mao 2.0 line, like Shanghai or (Chinese) MNCs.
3) As a scientist himself he can’t for himself admit that a science consensus can be (totally) wrong: science would lose its holy halo of infallibility.

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2022 3:18 utc | 106

Then, the sociopaths took over the highest layers of power as well, and destroyed the country. If this happens to China then all hope for the future is lost.

Posted by: moaobserver | Dec 1 2022 18:47 utc | 17

======================================

Brilliant post, much appreciated.

It doesn't matter what system you have, ancient or modern, religious or secular, they can all be taken down by steady infiltration of sociopathic parasites. Why? Because every human society has a percentage of people like that and their nature is to try to dominate and/or exploit the goodness of people not wired as they are.

If even half of what you say is true, then China - although they have been managing growth quite well - still have work to do on the anti-sociopath front. For me an alarm went off a while ago when I learned that quite a few of the senior leadership cadre are Princelings, ie a type of ruling class in a country which insists it has no such thing. It's not necessarily a terrible thing to have a ruling class but it is if you pretend you don't have one. That sort of in-your-face deception is slightly sociopathic in tone right there.

It seems to me that the globalist agenda is behind nearly everything these days, the so-called Reset business. The thrust is totalitarian. It's not good. And I see no signs that China is going in an entirely different direction as many commenters here keep saying.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 2 2022 3:20 utc | 107

re : about the vaccine preventing infection and spread.

My first and last comment on this ridiculous aspect to this topic.

A simple Fact, (sigh), no medical authority in the world, neither national Govt Health Dept anywhere, nor the WHO nor the CDC, nor those who made the bloody vaccines EVER SAID the Covid-19 vaccinations prevented infection - not once not ever - what they said was that they HELPED MOST PEOPLE to minimize the DISEASE RESPONSE and the HEALTH IMPACTS CAUSED by catching the Covid-19 Virus ..... FFS !

Yes some dumb-assed Media reports by incompetent journos said that, they are idiots, and/or your drunk great Uncle with dementia was convinced that what he was being told .... maybe handful of conspiratorial MDs in lalaland said it or thought they heard it; and some really stupid politicians believed it or said it, idiots one and all... but the global medical establishment nor Pfizer et al who made the vaccines and did the testing never said it!

The Gold-Standard evidence for this is found in the submitted scientific peer-reviewed research / testing analysis papers ... they never said what some people falsely believe they were told either.

Being Vaccinated however, did in fact TEND TO REDUCE the overall spread of Covid-19 that would otherwise have been the case - and for all variants afaik - why?

Because the vaccines tended to reduce / restrain the progress of the DISEASE which in each individual (all other things being equal) in turn reduced the production of higher levels of virus in the body .....

which subsequently (due to physics and biology) reduced the amount of virus an infected person could spread in their everyday space to others nearby .....

just as isolation would limit the amount of virus an infected person could spread to others .....

Logic, Physics and Biology:101

but they, the professional scientific experts and medical authorities themselves, never said being vaccinated protected anyone from catching Covid-19 - never. Not once....

But of course there are many will go to their deaths believing otherwise. Well God Bless their Cotton Socks. (shrug)

Take a vaccine or do not take a vaccine .... I do not care. Who cares? Your choice.

But the facts of the matter and the truth remain the truth.

Whereas the political aspects of to shutdown or not to shutdown parts of society, a vaccine mandate or no mandate, get tested do not test, is an entirely different political/social and moral matter driven more things than basic scientific facts that needed to be guided by the importance of various local social values, and the known local conditions in each nation, state or county/city/local council, according to the reality and impacts on the ground from one moment in time to another .... for there is no single standard rule that could apply because everywhere is and was different, had different laws, different values and different needs.....


But armed fucktards storming the state capital wanting to lynch the Governor is very insane dumb shit and those people should have been either shot on the spot or locked up and the key thrown away for being abject morons and anti-social mongrel thugs. As per-Jan 6. Ya cannot fix stupid.


AND IF science-illiterate Americans and Brazilians do not give a shit about how many get sick and die from covid-19 in their community/county or state, then that is their stupid business to decide where they live ... to argue / fight that out with their own families, neighbors and politicians who make the Laws and Regulations .... but no where else do their opinions about reality apply. Repeat: NO where!

And truly wish they would shut up about it on the internet and forums like this with people from all over the world here who know better and do not share their supremacist omnipotent values.

TY 2 cents spent - never again.

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 2 2022 3:54 utc | 108

Great to hear your many comments Walt @ 100 and elsewhere about your first hand experience and knowledge in China etc. You make a positive difference here. TY

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 2 2022 3:59 utc | 109

@ Opport Knocks | Dec 2 2022 3:07 utc | 102

Incredibly tolerant. How civilized.

In the good ol' US of A, would have promptly taken a minimum of three rounds point blank in the torso, center of the seen mass, then thrown to the ground, handcuffed whilst bodily pinned, awaiting an ambulance that has other calls in the queue. Ultimately DOA.

Um, your non-'emotive' rational logical reasoned point, um, is ?

@ Antonym | Dec 2 2022 3:18 utc | 105

How many murders & deaths by firearm in China vs good 'ol US of A per annum ? Hm ?

@ Scorpion | Dec 2 2022 3:20 utc | 106

I learned that quite a few of the senior leadership cadre are Princelings

Oh learned one, please specify the precise leadership group your refer to, total number in group, identify specifically your 'princelings' by name ? Since you 'learned' this no doubt you also have a credible primary source ref, hm ? Or merely more dissembling FUD & BS ...

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 2 2022 4:04 utc | 110

Have you seen the US commerative quarter for 2020? My most recent roll of quarters was full of commemeratives, mostly celebrating parks and historic American events. The 2020 quarter on the back has...bats. Yep. Bats..

This is not off topic!

Posted by: HelenB | Dec 2 2022 4:07 utc | 111

To those who claim the title of China expert because ctheu did some business with Chinese companies, or they are China Hating Indians you should shut up and stop spewing your US produce bullshit.

1.Protests started after Beijing put out the 20 Optimised Measures in effort to force local govts to stop abusing their powers on their residents. China is a huge country and it's impossible for Beijing to exercise total control over every village. So even at village level the local committee has more powers over their residents than Beijing.
Very often they make their own rules and enforce it regardless of what Beijing says.
Old Chinese saying is "the emperor is far away" applies.

2. Because of 1) Beijing issued the white document with more specific measures to contain C19 outbreaks. To stop local govts from misusing their powers irresponsibly.

3. Outside of the big cities, and even inside, the local district govts often used illegal means to stop the spread of C19 outbreaks in their districts.
a) locking residents in their homes
b) locking their apartment buildings main doors
c) locking the fire exits
These highly illegal acts have resulted in residents burned to death in their homes. Beijing is fully aware of these acts bit powerless to move because Beijing cannot be everywhere. The local govts suppress all reports on the ground level, often deny that deaths were caused by their illegal lockdown.
Many of these fires can be blamed on the residents themselves because they more their electric bikes into building lobbies and inside their homes to charge power. Many cases of these batteries catching fire.
4. Local officials have abused state finds on C19 testing by working with labs appointed to analyze all nuclei tests to falsify negative as positive or abnormal, thus requiring more tests. Means more profits for these labs and suppliers of nucleic test swabs.
Many videos show these are being circulated around in Chinese social media. People are angry at these false positives that resulted in people being taken away to centralised quarantine or hospitals.

The people are using Beijing's 20 Optimised Measures paper to hammer their local govts for their illegal acts and overly long lockdowns.

So it's not the people of China rebelling against their central govt, but rebelling against their overly harsh local govts.

Why I know?

I'm a foreigner living in China for past 10 years.
I live in a tier 4 city with the locals
I have been locked in my apartment for 9 days in first lockdown in November. Apartment door was tied with metal wires, apartment building main doors were padlocked with metal chains, fire exit doors were locked.
Second lockdown after end of first lockdown, and still ongoing into December. Now that the 20 Optimised Measures paper is out, the district govt dares not lock individual homes, lock building main door.

The real devil is not in Beijing CPC but in the local district govt usually hiding behind the very vague description of "社区“ meaning " community". Bullshit of course as no residents are in that "社区" group and no residents were consulted on appropriate lockdown measures. Technically speaking each resident estate should form their own committee to represent the interests of their residents, but the dictrict local govts refuses to recognise or work with these resident committees because they want to keep all the powers for themselves.

Now dear readers, who do you think is qualified to tell you of life in China and what's happening there?

A China Hating Indian? Or some very obvious western intelligence troll?

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 2 2022 4:14 utc | 112

Hi Scorpion @ 106, a few side comment fwiw

they can all be taken down by steady infiltration of sociopathic parasites.

It is not about "infiltration" nor is it China culturally specific. Sociopaths are, on the whole 2-3% of the population in the west they say, they grow up to be pathological narcissists first or even become worse, then they go and live their lives in all kinds of different tiers of society in business the military, the Law, police, in crime, banking, politicians, celebrities, sports whatever. It happens, it is not "infiltration" - no one is on the march, it is not a 5th column. It's merely human life on planet earth.

The fact is, people are different. Such as you yourself say:

Because every human society has a percentage of people like that and their nature is to try to dominate and/or exploit the goodness of people not wired as they are.

Yes. There are more than enough living in your own neighborhood and political environment to think about or act upon already. They show up on internet forums and news/blog comments sections too. NO need to go all the way to China mate! :)

China - still have work to do on the anti-sociopath front.

Who doesn't. Did the anti-drug war fix anything? No. There's a hint. What you resist persists.

Princelings, ie a type of ruling class in a country which insists it has no such thing. It's not necessarily a terrible thing to have a ruling class but it is if you pretend you don't have one. That sort of in-your-face deception is slightly sociopathic in tone right there.

Pull up. You haven't even proven they exist or are a problem yet. It's pathological to imagine problems that don't exist or you do not really know for certain they exist. Princelings might be as big a deal as TV celebrities are. Clean up your own backyard first? Those without sin, throw the first stone etc etc etc.

It seems to me that the globalist agenda is behind nearly everything these days, the so-called Reset business. The thrust is totalitarian. It's not good. And I see no signs that China is going in an entirely different direction as many commenters here keep saying.

Chill out man. People lie. Make stuff up 24/7. Don't believe every thing someone tells you, especially on the internet or in the news reports or on youtube or in your local tavern. People are crazy. :-)


Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 2 2022 4:20 utc | 113

During the alleged covid epidemic the disparity between the rich and middle class and poor increased by an obscene degree.

During the alleged height of covid the hospitals were empty.

The PCR test is worthless.

What are called viruses are really exosomes that are produced by your body during the healing process.

The Universe is symbiotic.

The only healing force in the universe is within you, not in a needle.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Dec 2 2022 4:28 utc | 114

To all those with the prescription: ‘China Should,’

Did you live in China?
Do you speak Chinese (any variation)?
Are you familiar with Chinese customs, mores, and folkways?
Have you read all Chinese laws? Are you intimately familiar with any? Any Chinese literature?
Are you familiar with the ’mandate of heaven?’
Did you participate in the process of making the ’sausage?’
Are you vaguely familiar with Confucianism? Sun Tzu? Oooh, they love him at this bar. Oh yeah, I think HE was Chinese, too.
Do you know anyone that knows what president XI will do next?
Are you privy to economic backroom deals, and expected effects on the world economy?
Do you have the resources of a state to model what should/would/is/be?
Gosh, I could go-on and on, on this thread of questioning. Perhaps our Chinese colleagues, or others, can pile on. Please don’t see this as cancellation of such speech, just that, a little more humility, specially, from our ‘Western’ friends.

China should, pshh.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Dec 2 2022 4:31 utc | 115

“Unvaxxed senior citizen here with a healthy immune system.”
Opport Knocks | Dec 2 2022 2:54 utc | 99

Immune systems of older people deteriorate with time so proclaiming oneself to have a healthy immune system as a senior is indeed a relative thing.

The long-term effects of covid infections on naive T cell reservoirs (and consequently the health of bodily organs) is afaik an unknown as of now. Some speculate based on some evidence that naive T cells populations are reduced by covid infection. Further, multiple reinfections may accelerate ill health for some people, not boost immunity, even if one is young and healthy.
I understand skepticism about the big pharma spike protein jabs but it does not follow that relying on a so-called healthy Immune system leads to all peaches and cream for seniors.


====

T cell ageing: Effects of age on development, survival & function

Abstract
Age associated decline of the immune system continues to be a major health concern. All components of innate and adaptive immunity are adversely affected to lesser or greater extent by ageing resulting in an overall decline of immunocompetence. As a result in the aged population, there is increased susceptibility to infection, poor responses to vaccination, and increased incidence of autoreactivity. There is an increasing focus on the role of T cells during ageing because of their impact on the overall immune responses. A steady decline in the production of fresh naïve T cells, more restricted T cell receptor (TCR) repertoire and weak activation of T cells are some of the effects of ageing

Indian J Med Res. 2013 Nov; 138(5): 595–608.


Posted by: suzan | Dec 2 2022 4:32 utc | 116

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 2 2022 4:20 utc | 112

Idiots will believe the rubbish they saw on YouTube and MSM. It's what idiots do best.

Even throwing "princelings" around without understanding what is the background of these people.
They are descendants of early period members of the Chinese Communist Party, elders who fought with the warlords, then the KMT, the Japanese, and finally the western imperialists, to free China from foreign domination.
They don't have automatic promotions over other cadres but must prove their abilities at each stage of their work. So if they proved they are capable then you want to hold their birth backgrounds against them?
Even the last Manchu emperor of China, Puyi, was rehabilitated as a gardener, doing useful work in the new People's Republic of China.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 2 2022 4:36 utc | 117

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 2 2022 4:04 utc | 109

I suggest you learn to use google.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 2 2022 4:36 utc | 118

@ Outraged 109
How many murders & deaths by firearm in China vs good 'ol US of A per annum ? Hm ?

A regrettable truth, but I raise you:

How many murders by organ harvesting (or pollution) in US vs the Middle Kingdom per annum ?

If Chinese citizens had firearms they could defend themselves against organ harvesters or Big Government overreach. Now they are sheep in pens towards Covid pods or other inhuman bestiality.
"lockdown macht frei? https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1596967307678318594

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2022 4:40 utc | 119

@ Surferket | 111

Me, I'm going with the loudest most unrelenting voice on MoA, and failing that, the latest China Hating Indian Immigrant to America, because they know their stuff better than anyone ... /s

Besides the CPC membership already know the entire Politburo including President Xi are mind controlled by the Reptilians of the Galactic Federation. The same as Klaus Schwab and his numerous nefarious henchmen at the WEF. Their hands are tied in China for now.

Eventually, when American wisdom finally arrives, and Alex Jones' InfoWars and Trump's Truth Social is streaming online 24/7 to the Chinese then freedom will break out all over the land.

The scales will fall from their eyes.

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 2 2022 4:49 utc | 120


So it's not the people of China rebelling against their central govt, but rebelling against their overly harsh local govts.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 2 2022 4:14 utc | 111
============================================

Thank you for that post. Makes a lot of sense.

Question: how hard is it for most typical Chinese to weather such long restrictions? Is this not extremely difficult for small business owners and/or people with jobs in the private sector (working for those small business owners)? I haven't read anything about that anywhere. For example it was reported in the US that well over 100,000 small businesss closed in the first few months of the covid restrictions. Also, how are Chinese factories doing in lock-down areas? Do the workers get paid? Do the companies have no problem surviving? Is it true there is a bit of a real estate crash happening?

I'm sure many here would like to understand better about such matters in China. I spent only 2-3 months there but it was long enough to realize that it's the sort of polity which I would need at least five years to even begin to be able to understand so I don't pretend to understand it at all even though obviously am quite curious and have questions. (I also have reservations because it seems they are in bed with various globalist agendas I don't like such as UN, WHO, WTO etc. but any such reservations I have in that regard pale in comparison with the horror I feel when contemplating Western leadership and civilizational decadence!)

For example: I read that there are several senior members of the Politburo that are Princelings. Is this true? Is this regarded as not important or not?

Forgive my questions. Of course you are under no obligation to answer them. But I hope you do!

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 2 2022 4:50 utc | 121

Piers Corbyn contributes to the China topic at around the 19:00 mark here.

https://youtu.be/ssoqCSYTc6s?t=1170

The entire interview is worth watching and ranges far and wide for leftist topics. Check it out barflies and open a stubby or a glass of plonk.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 2 2022 5:01 utc | 122

Fun report from Shanghai during lockdown period...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oqaZF8jvaA
(thanks to whoever recommended the channel above)

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 2 2022 5:02 utc | 123

@ Scorpion | Dec 2 2022 4:36 utc | 117

"I suggest you learn to use google."

Ah youngins. Started out with access to ARPANET in late '70's, then access to CSNET subsequent ... was very naughty, occasionally stealing precious mainframe tiny timeslices to play text based 'Dungeon'.

You made the 'learned' statement of asserted fact. I suggest you prove merely just this one claim of your serial 'learned' false assertions. Otherwise known in common parlance as, dissembling BS. Will you ? Can you ? Pretty please ?

@ Antonym | Dec 2 2022 4:40 utc | 118

So you have no response.

And in return:

How many murders by organ harvesting (or pollution) in US vs the Middle Kingdom per annum ?

Your 'twitter' ref is Dog awful propaganda farce, laughable.

Supposedly you know the answer to your question re China, a remarkable mish-mash of categories(organ harvesting or pollution ?!). Pleased to be educated, primary credible peer-reviewed comparative analysis source ? Hm ? Or yet more BS ?

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 2 2022 5:08 utc | 124

China so good!
The west so bad!
China has all the redeeming qualities
The West has no redeeming qualities

Tsingtao didi mao!

Posted by: Ho Chi Minh | Dec 2 2022 5:08 utc | 125

@ Surferket | 111

"So it's not the people of China rebelling against their central govt, but rebelling against their overly harsh local govts."

The Chinese local governments serve at the pleasure of the CCP pyramid, so no lower bureaucrat of party member wants to even look like not following top down orders, otherwise they will be "removed". Contrary to senile puppet Biden, Emperor Xi Jinping does hold the reigns, all the strings, in his own hands.

If you really live in the PRC now you can only communicate here through VPN, which is forbidden in China (even in Ten-cent), criticism even more risky. Supporting the CCP Establishment over VPN = Fifty cents army.
My Two cents.

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2022 5:21 utc | 126

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2022 5:21 utc | 125

Just a brief interposition.

I turned my VPN off to post this.

Posted by: Walt | Dec 2 2022 5:31 utc | 127

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2022 5:21 utc | 125

I know you are genetically conditioned to hate China because you are an Indian.
But that shouldn't preculde you from having a fair mind and doing some real research.

I can access MOA without VPN, Same with many western based sites.
Generally only obvious anti China sites like BBC, Wapo, NYT, VOA, DW are blocked.
There's a website that lets you know if you enter a site's URL if it's blocked in China.

So stop spewing your outright racist lies, grow a real brain and start living an honest life online.
You are saying Modi directly controls everything that happens in a far flung remote Indian village. Logic there?
So what if district officials are CPC cadres? They are humans and they can be greedy. Do you know how many CPC cadres are removed from their positions, jailed and some executed every year? You can find out if you are serious about truth.
India don't have these officials? Look after your own birth country first before trying to point at others.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 2 2022 5:39 utc | 128

Just like the RF gets all the good publicity here,
China gets the same good publicity.

It’s always bad for the West, and good for the Western opposition.
Which is a solid standard position to take,
because the FUKUS have really fucked things up in the past 200 years.
I’m on board with that, that’s why I read here.

It’s as if it’s NOT ENOUGH to condemn the western fascist powers.
We MUST praise China and Russia, no matter what.
And ONLY present that side; always blaming the FUKUS for propaganda
And misinformation (deservedly so), without applying
The same lens of scrutiny upon Russia and China.
It’s a one way street here.
I guess I’ll have what everyone else is drinking.

Posted by: SMH@thisbarsometimes | Dec 2 2022 5:40 utc | 129

@121,
I think that's nonsense n waffle. China didn't need Covid to have or apply power as a Govt or CPC. They made rational evidence-based decisions and then acted on those. Everyday basic govt activity. With the usual Bellcurve variations for success and competence.

Piers Corbyn? The new world tyranny, wef, green agenda and whatever. The "left has sold out"? There is no 'Left' left anywhere in the world to sell out! No thanks I'll pass. May as well believe David Icke.

Gàobié!

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 2 2022 5:43 utc | 130

@ Walt 126

The Great Chinese Firewall blocks 100% of even potentially anti-CCP sites, so without VPN no chance from mainland China. So no Twitter, Youtube, Google, Facebook etc. etc. etc.
Only the home 50 cents army has access to those but that is a double side sword as they might get so many real info that they might overcome the CCP brainwash. Even a chance they might fall for the U$UK counter brainwash.

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2022 5:45 utc | 131

Missing /s ?
Posted by: Outraged | Dec 2 2022 1:59 utc | 90

Yeah prolly. But hard to take that bug seriously. Could be called gnat. Would be better as a 'no see-um'.

For your jukebox: Ind. Disease
"I go down to Speakers' Corner... Two men say they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong?"

(OT: Gaylord Perry RIP)

Posted by: waynorinorway | Dec 2 2022 5:49 utc | 132

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 2 2022 4:50 utc | 120

Re your question on economic consequences of periods of lockdowns in China.
Mind you China is a huge country, larger than US without Alaska. Not all parts of China were/are afflicted with current outbreaks.
My city was basically maskless since April 2020 right up until June 2022 when Delta entered China, and Omicron in November 2022.
Even now, most parts of China people don't wear masks because they don't have any outbreaks. Of course MSM won't tell you this.

Yes the Omicron outbreaks since Shanghai in December 2022 and subsequently have caused much stop start on China's economic output in the east and central China.
Where lockdowns took place many SMEs suffered, many small companies closed down, many people became unemployed. However, the situation in China is very different from the west in that family plays an important part of support. 5he younger jobless can depend on their parents who generally live on the farms and are self sufficient and with income from their crops.
Others turned to online selling. Many young people went back to their home villages to do e-commerce live streaming. Many actually earn more now than in their previous work.
But, sadly it's true many are not so fortunate to have such support. They turn to migrant work in the east and rural where they work on infrastructure projects which pays well because it's hard work in far off areas.

So despite 3 years of C19, the average Chinese family have improved on their livelihood, earn more, live better than at any other times in previous decades or their parents. That's why there's huge ground support for President Xi and Beijing. But because cod direct sufferings caused by lockdowns band incompetence of local district officials, there is much distrust towards these local officials. Rightly place based on my personal observations.

Those less affected by lockdowns are those in huge companies, state owned enterprises, govt offices.
But they have to take no pay leave if they are unable to report for work due to lockdowns.

Does these answer your questions?

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 2 2022 5:53 utc | 133

@ Surferket | 127

The standard 50 cents reply: suggesting that non-Chinese don't know the difference between Chinese residents and The Party or their Captain.

Contrary to you believe CCP is not fixed in Chinese genetics. Only A, T, G and C are available LOL. Indian genes are super divers and Indian cultures are very different on top, no mono-culture here.

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2022 6:00 utc | 134

@ waynorinorway | Dec 2 2022 5:49 utc | 131

Yeah, hear ya. Prost.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 2 2022 6:13 utc | 135

Antonym | Dec 2 2022 5:45 utc | 130 "The Great Chinese Firewall blocks 100% of even potentially anti-CCP sites"

Another dumbfuck Hindutva comment. All western MSM is available in China. Anything Google is not.

Indian clowns like yourself are as dumb as the Eurotwits. China is not your enemy - the US is. Idiots like you, the US looks at as useful idiots - cannon fodder.

That Indian media at the time of the Galwan valley incident was over the top. Like toddlers in a tantrum. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYGH1Jqh8V4

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2022 6:17 utc | 136

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 2 2022 4:50 utc | 120

Regarding your question on "princelings" in Chinese leadership you can look up on President Xi. He is a "princeling" too as his father was a high level CPC govt official and was purged during the Cultural Revolution. Xi, as a "princeling, was sent to a remote village as a farmer.
He admitted he didn't work hard then and after he was allowed to return to Beijing he was older and wiser. He requested to be reasigned back to the village as party secretary where he worked to alleviate poverty. His political career started from there due to his successful work.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 2 2022 6:20 utc | 137

Re the China Hating Indian in MOA, he hates China because India could and should have been where China is today.
Why is India not then? He knows, and that's why he hates China.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 2 2022 6:24 utc | 138

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2022 5:45 utc | 130

Frankly I don't give a damn about Twitter, Facebook or Google. Or the BBC and the rest of that ilk. In fact most of the web sites I visit (such as this) don't need a VPN in China. Mainly I would cite Startpage for searches, and Youtube: and it's no wonder China blocks that with all the anti-China shit on it. Don't forget that Youtube does a sterling job censoring/demonetarising all the anti-western videos and shadow-banning inconvenient comments. It cuts both ways.

But not actually being in China means you are not aware of the situation with VPNs. If China wanted to block them (and they do sometimes) they can do so in an instant. That they look the other way most of the time is worth pondering on.

Posted by: Walt | Dec 2 2022 6:30 utc | 139

This is for all fair minded readers of MOA who refuse to believe the bullshit in western media about China.

This is what China's 20 Optimised Measures paper is.
It's in Chinese but you can use any online translation website to read it in your native language.
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbaijiahao.baidu.com%2Fs%3Fid%3D1749794572763836618%26wfr%3Dspider%26for%3Dpc%26searchword%3D%25E4%25BA%258C%25E5%258D%2581%25E6%259D%25A1%25E4%25BC%2598%25E5%258C%2596%25E6%258E%25AA%25E6%2596%25BD%25E6%2598%25AF%25E4%25BB%2580%25E4%25B9%2588&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cbbd0eee25b4a40b0311208dad31cdeec%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638054418237304854%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=kysMpDGyqd35PX%2FvKrnp1ffCAZuER8NiYojBs5NTtTs%3D&reserved=0


“二十条”是什么?具体措施权威发布+深度解读

11月10日,中央政治局常委会召开会议听取新冠肺炎疫情防控工作汇报,研究部署进一步优化防控工作的二十条措施。为贯彻落实中央政治局常委会会议精神,抓好疫情防控和优化调整措施的实施,发布《关于进一步优化新冠肺炎疫情防控措施 科学精准做好防控工作的通知》,其中第二部分提到“落实党中央部署,积极稳妥抓好防控措施的优化调整”,在这部分内容中,党中央对进一步优化防控工作的二十条措施作出重要部署、提出明确要求,各地各部门要不折不扣把各项优化措施落实到位。这二十条内容具体如下:
(一)对密切接触者,将“7天集中隔离+3天居家健康监测”管理措施调整为“5天集中隔离+3天居家隔离”,期间赋码管理、不得外出。集中隔离医学观察的第1、2、3、5天各开展1次核酸检测,居家隔离医学观察第1、3天各开展1次核酸检测。
(二)及时准确判定密切接触者,不再判定密接的密接。
(三)将高风险区外溢人员“7天集中隔离”调整为“7天居家隔离”,期间赋码管理、不得外出。在居家隔离第1、3、5、7天各开展1次核酸检测。
(四)将风险区由“高、中、低”三类调整为“高、低”两类,最大限度减少管控人员。原则上将感染者居住地以及活动频繁且疫情传播风险较高的工作地和活动地等区域划定为高风险区,高风险区一般以单元、楼栋为单位划定,不得随意扩大;高风险区所在县(市、区、旗)的其他地区划定为低风险区。高风险区连续5天未发现新增感染者,降为低风险区。符合解封条件的高风险区要及时解封。
(五)对结束闭环作业的高风险岗位从业人员由“7天集中隔离或7天居家隔离”调整为“5天居家健康监测”,期间赋码管理,第1、3、5天各开展1次核酸检测,非必要不外出,确需外出的不前往人员密集公共场所、不乘坐公共交通工具。
(六)没有发生疫情的地区严格按照第九版防控方案确定的范围对风险岗位、重点人员开展核酸检测,不得扩大核酸检测范围。一般不按行政区域开展全员核酸检测,只在感染来源和传播链条不清、社区传播时间较长等疫情底数不清时开展。制定规范核酸检测的具体实施办法,重申和细化有关要求,纠正“一天两检”、“一天三检”等不科学做法。
(七)取消入境航班熔断机制,并将登机前48小时内2次核酸检测阴性证明调整为登机前48小时内1次核酸检测阴性证明。
(八)对于入境重要商务人员、体育团组等,“点对点”转运至免隔离闭环管理区(“闭环泡泡”),开展商务、训练、比赛等活动,期间赋码管理,不可离开管理区。中方人员进入管理区前需完成新冠病毒疫苗加强免疫接种,完成工作后根据风险大小采取相应的隔离管理或健康监测措施。
(九)明确入境人员阳性判定标准为核酸检测Ct值<35,对解除集中隔离时核酸检测Ct值35—40的人员进行风险评估,如为既往感染,居家隔离期间“三天两检”、赋码管理、不得外出。
(十)对入境人员,将“7天集中隔离+3天居家健康监测”调整为“5天集中隔离+3天居家隔离”,期间赋码管理、不得外出。入境人员在第一入境点完成隔离后,目的地不得重复隔离。集中隔离医学观察的第1、2、3、5天各开展1次核酸检测,居家隔离医学观察第1、3天各开展1次核酸检测。
(十一)加强医疗资源建设。制定分级分类诊疗方案、不同临床严重程度感染者入院标准、各类医疗机构发生疫情和医务人员感染处置方案,做好医务人员全员培训。做好住院床位和重症床位准备,增加救治资源。
(十二)有序推进新冠病毒疫苗接种。制定加快推进疫苗接种的方案,加快提高疫苗加强免疫接种覆盖率,特别是老年人群加强免疫接种覆盖率。加快开展具有广谱保护作用的单价或多价疫苗研发,依法依规推进审批。
(十三)加快新冠肺炎治疗相关药物储备。做好供应储备,满足患者用药需求,尤其是重症高风险和老年患者治疗需求。重视发挥中医药的独特优势,做好有效中医药方药的储备。加强急救药品和医疗设备的储备。
(十四)强化重点机构、重点人群保护。摸清老年人、有基础性疾病患者、孕产妇、血液透析患者等群体底数,制定健康安全保障方案。优化对养老院、精神专科医院、福利院等脆弱人群集中场所的管理。
(十五)落实“四早”要求,减少疫情规模和处置时间。各地要进一步健全疫情多渠道监测预警和多点触发机制,面向跨省流动人员开展“落地检”,发现感染者依法及时报告,第一时间做好流调和风险人员管控,严格做到早发现、早报告、早隔离、早治疗,避免战线扩大、时间延长,决不能等待观望、各行其是。
(十六)加大“一刀切”、层层加码问题整治力度。地方党委和政府要落实属地责任,严格执行国家统一的防控政策,严禁随意封校停课、停工停产、未经批准阻断交通、随意采取“静默”管理、随意封控、长时间不解封、随意停诊等各类层层加码行为,加大通报、公开曝光力度,对造成严重后果的依法依规严肃追责。发挥各级整治层层加码问题工作专班作用,高效做好举报线索收集转办,督促地方及时整改到位。卫生健康委、疾控局、教育部、交通运输部等各行业主管部门加强对行业系统的督促指导,加大典型案例曝光力度,切实起到震慑作用。
(十七)加强封控隔离人员服务保障。各地要建立生活物资保障工作专班,及时制定完善生活必需品市场供应、封闭小区配送、区域联保联供等预案,做好重要民生商品储备。全面摸排社区常住人口基础信息,掌握空巢独居老年人、困境儿童、孕产妇、基础病患者等重点人员情况,建立重点人员清单、疫情期间需求清单。优化封闭区域终端配送,明确生活物资供应专门力量,在小区内划出固定接收点,打通配送“最后一米”。指导社区与医疗机构、药房等建立直通热线,小区配备专车,做好服务衔接,严格落实首诊负责制和急危重症抢救制度,不得以任何理由推诿拒诊,保障居民治疗、用药等需求。做好封控隔离人员心理疏导,加大对老弱病残等特殊群体的关心帮助力度,解决好人民群众实际困难。
(十八)优化校园疫情防控措施。完善校地协同机制,联防联控加强校园疫情应急处置保障,优先安排校园转运隔离、核酸检测、流调溯源、环境消毒、生活物资保障等工作,提升学校疫情应急处置能力,支持学校以快制快处置疫情。各地各校要严格执行国家和教育部门防控措施,坚决落实科学精准防控要求,不得加码管控。教育部和各省级、地市级教育部门牵头成立工作专班,逐一排查校园随意封控、封控时间过长、长时间不开展线下教学、生活保障跟不上、师生员工家属管控要求不一致等突出问题并督促整改,整治防控不力和过度防疫问题。各级教育部门设立投诉平台和热线电话,及时受理、转办和回应,建立“接诉即办”机制,健全问题快速反应和解决反馈机制,及时推动解决师生急难愁盼问题。
(十九)落实企业和工业园区防控措施。各地联防联控机制要成立专班,摸清辖区包括民营企业在内的企业和工业园区底数,“一企一策”“一园一策”制定疫情防控处置预案。落实企业和工业园区疫情防控主体责任,建立从企业、园区管理层到车间班组、一线职工的疫情防控全员责任体系,细化全环节、全流程疫情防控台账。严格返岗人员涉疫风险核查,确认健康后方可返岗。加强对关键岗位、关键工序员工的生活、防疫和轮岗备岗保障,完善第三方外包人员管理办法,严格社会面人员出入管理。发生疫情期间,要全力保障物流通畅,不得擅自要求事关产业链全局和涉及民生保供的重点企业停工停产,落实好“白名单”制度。
(二十)分类有序做好滞留人员疏解。发生疫情的地方要及时精准划定风险区域,对不在高风险区的外地人员,评估风险后允许其离开,避免发生滞留,返程途中做好防护。发生较多人员滞留的地方,要专门制定疏解方案,出发地与目的地加强信息沟通和协作配合,在有效防止疫情外溢的前提下稳妥安排,交通运输、民航、国铁等单位要积极给予交通运力保障。目的地要增强大局意识,不得拒绝接受滞留人员返回,并按照要求落实好返回人员防控措施,既要避免疫情外溢,也不得加码管控。
深度解读快问快答
“二十条”优化措施出台,是不是意味着放松防控了?
“二十条”优化措施是对第九版防控方案的完善,不是放松防控,更不是放开、“躺平”。而是为了进一步提升防控的科学性、精准性,最大限度减少疫情对经济社会发展的影响。
“二十条”优化措施是基于什么考虑出台的?
“二十条”优化措施的出台是为了缓解各地疫情处置当中遇到的一些瓶颈和障碍问题,比如说隔离资源相对比较紧张,隔离房间不足。另外,流调方面压力非常大,流调的人员也相对不足。
为什么密切接触者的管理措施由原来的“7+3”改成了“5+3”?
因为奥密克戎的最长潜伏期是8天,根据专家的评估,密切接触者3天内检出阳性比例是81.4%,4天达到90.1%,5天达到94.5%,7天达到99.7%。根据这些结果,将隔离期限进一步优化到“5+3”。
为什么不再判定次密接?
经过评估,次密接的阳性检出率很低,大概是3.1/10万,也就是10万个人里面有3个人。次密接不去管、不去判,可以节约很多服务保障的资源。
为什么取消中风险区?
经过实践应用及评估,发现中风险区的阳性检出率为3/10万。虽然有风险,但是不大。但划分中风险后需要增加很多管控人员和防疫人员。故而决定取消中风险区。
为什么高风险区外溢人员由“7天集中隔离”调成“7天居家隔离”?
外溢人员的风险经评估以后大概是4.9/10万,这些人均在风险区域划定后7天内检出,故而把高风险区外溢的人员7天集中隔离改为7天居家隔离,节省集中隔离资源。
为什么闭环管理的高风险人员可以调整成“5天居家健康监测”?
在闭环管理的高风险人员,如果严格执行闭环管理措施,这些人的阳性感染率很低,只有1.6/10万,比中风险和次密还要低。
“二十条”优化措施中对于全员核酸的调整,是否和常态化核酸检测要求冲突?
“二十条”优化措施中的第6条强调,没有发生疫情的地区要严格按照第九版防控方案确定的范围,对于风险岗位和重点人员进行核酸检测,不得随意扩大核酸检测范围。所以,二十条优化措施是对第九版防控方案进一步的重申和强调,两者间并无冲突。

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 2 2022 6:31 utc | 140

@ Peter AU1 | 135

Neither China nor the US are our enemies, only their puppet masters are.

All Internet media are available in India - except Tiktok.

Am I complaining about Anglo fools believing that the enemy of their Establishment is their friend? No, the PRC (with its billions of useless PRC tests ha ha) is for me just a temporary counterweight to uncle $cam. Xi Jinping is not my God.

I pity Aussies being forced to get injected or lose their jobs etc. seriously, ridiculous.

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2022 6:34 utc | 141

Surferket | Dec 2 2022 6:20 utc | 136

From what I understand, Xi's time with the peasant farmers is what put poverty alleviation firt on Xi's to do list.

Of the people for the people.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2022 6:38 utc | 142

I doubt the Chinese medical system is worse developed than the Western medical systems were in either the '60s (Asian flu and Hong Kong flu) or even the '20s (Spanish flu).

In terms of excessive deaths COVID in its worst days was no more dangerous than the former two and considerably less dangerous than the latter. With Omkiron it's more comparable with a common cold. But in terms of government measures the response towards COVID was unprecedented in peacetime.

Government policy towards COVID worldwide has been driven by media-induced hysterics, a desire for government control and enabled by the newfound ability to work massively from home due to digitalization. Western COVID-measures were much inspired by the Chinese zero-COVID approach, with multiple virologists actually expressing their surprise at the extent to which Western populations were willing to submit to such government-imposed restrictions.

Back in February, Russian sites like Sputnik and Russia Today were quickly blocked in Europe. That type of crude censorship was previously uncommon in Europe, but it's very much in-line with the censorship-style imposed during COVID.
In that sense I believe much of the Western popular response towards the war in Ukraine (including the self-defeating sanctions and russophobia) is a consequence of censorship and other population control measures introduced during COVID.

Posted by: Taiphon | Dec 2 2022 6:38 utc | 143

Covid happens to be a real bug--virus specifically. I got it three months ago and defeated it with a regime I had at hand--the prescribed retrovirals helped but didn't kill the bugger. A traditional South Asian herb complex is what slayed it along with my immune system. I found it very curious that I was asked no questions nor was any blood taken to see what strain the home test revealed. Absolutely zero interest was shown even though I'm supposedly a high-risk patient.

Several months later, we went to the Moda Center in Portland for the Scorpions concert where about 20K unmasked fans were screaming their guts out, my wife and I included. You'd think that we stood a good chance for getting sick--we did--but we didn't. We discussed that the next day on our drive home. IMO, our healthy and strong immune systems include covid seeking antibodies that didn't allow any viral elements to gain purchase, plus we were lucky.

China cannot care for its very large, highly concentrated population on luck alone. We've agreed with its policies and understand its concerns--those running the Empire and previous Plundering nations don't give a damn about those they kill or the amount. The use of Bioweapons as part of policy was admitted by Paul Wolfowitz and reiterated by other Neocons--Nazis. It's in China's national security interest to treat any viral outbreak as an attack, and it does so to the chagrin of those wanting to see it fail.

As we saw with Hong Kong, China's Fifth Column has many members, but as an overall percentage as b notes, they're miniscule--gnats on the elephant. Behavior exposes you for what you are. We now know more about the usual fiends and now see who are members of the new fiend cadre.

There are certain types of people you don't want experimenting with anything biological. Unfortunately, they are members of grossly immoral governments who'll do absolutely anything to advance their interests and can't be trusted with anything. And that's the main reason China isn't going to alter its policy anytime soon. It would be extremely foolish to do so.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2022 6:40 utc | 144

@HelenB 110

Spetnaz has infiltrated the US Treasury (Google GRU Spetznaz or watch

Posted by: Hermit | Dec 2 2022 6:41 utc | 145

Surferket | 137

"Re the China Hating Indian in MOA, he hates China because India could and should have been where China is today. Why is India not then? He knows, and that's why he hates China"

Nice theory, maybe applicable to some Indians but not to me. Material wealth is not The goal of life for me. We believe in reincarnation, so how much money can one take to the next life? How is life locked up in a luxury apartment?
Ancient Europeans came to India for exploitation while their monks came to preach; ancient Chinese monks came to India in search of Wisdom, but returned only with Buddhism - just one path of many.

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2022 6:47 utc | 146

I don't see it discussed here but I think China sees Covid as biowarfare targeted at them.

There is no proof yet that a variant might be very deadly for certain "ethnic groups" with similar DNA and so their approach benefits by being conservative which is showing to minimize deaths so far which is in contrast with the Western approach that has let over a million die for profit.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 2 2022 6:51 utc | 147

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2022 6:38 utc | 141

Yes but Xi wasn't the first to start poverty alleviation. It was started at every territory that the Red Army took over from the KMT. Land of the landlords were divided to the peasants farming those land. Tell today farming deeds are perpetuated to family members and farmers actually own those land,as unlike land of urban dwellers which still belongs to he state.

Similarly, it wasn't Deng who first formulated making capitalists work for the wealth of China and the people. It was Mao.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 2 2022 7:02 utc | 148

For those interested in why Beijing stayed with their Dynamic Zero Covid Policy. Use a web translator.

No, China's healthcare system ranges from excellent in the mega cities to very basic out in remote areas. China still has diploma study for bare foot doctors.

This is an excellent article that explains the basic facts and draws on the experiences of other countries and their relevance to China.

Yes, Zero Covid Policy is to prevent most Chinese from catching C19, until such a time as when most people are fully vaccinated (today it's at 91% full double dose). Problem is with the elderly who outright refuse. Beijing just had 3 elderly (80-90+) died from C19 related complications. Shanghai had 60 which caused a huge uproar back then

In China, every life matters. Even when their economy is damaged.

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/Inz_kORneG7QyEttAXnZzg

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 2 2022 7:10 utc | 150

Just come on my phone, local Shenzhen news source, relates to what Surferket said earlier about local authorities being held responsible for blocking exits during lockdowns.

"Beijing has recently required that it is strictly forbidden to use hard barriers to block fire exits, unit doors, and residential doors..."

There is more about not obstructing access to emergency vehicles.

Posted by: Walt | Dec 2 2022 8:34 utc | 151

"China can therefore not open up and let the pandemic run its course. Its government would likely see more protest than now should it suddenly decide to fully open up and to let the elderly die."

Rubbish. This virus was no worse than a bad flu back in 2020. Now, at worse, it is just another normal mild flu. This was known back in May 2020. It was also known, back then, that there were treatments for it - and doctors were successfully treating it, like normal flu, until along came THE VACCINE! For which, many people made millions......

But, hey! There will still be many who believe that, without saints Fauci and Gates, they would have died.

Posted by: KirklodgeJo | Dec 2 2022 8:57 utc | 152

The idea that Omicron is less lethal in any meaningful way is essentially a lie, and it's amazing to see b parroting it. Further, both conceptually and in regards to covid variants specifically, the concept that viruses tend towards becoming less lethal is a meme with little foundation in reality.

China has a good goal, zero covid (in fact this is the only sensible approach to this plague), but is frequently going about it in a retarded way. They still refuse to acknowledge airborne transmission, and if they re seriously banking on less lethality as a policy platform they're utter fucking fools.

Posted by: Soredemos | Dec 2 2022 8:57 utc | 153

Rufus Arrr | 148

TY, pleasantly surprised by that video/info, really good.

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 2 2022 9:02 utc | 154

reports demonstrate that mainland Chinese citizens strongly support Xi Jinping and the CPC.
Posted by: George | Dec 1 2022 21:53 utc | 56

Well if they strongly supported any opposition party they'd soon find themselves in jail, or worse. Heck, even just practising T'ai Chi can get you arrested.

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 2 2022 9:17 utc | 155

Listen to Whitney Webb's interview with Viva Frei a couple of days ago. It is funny how she predicted the covid outbreak before it happened based on the "simulations" that preceded it. That is one side of the story. The other side is the Chinese response. The Rockefeller Foundation paper from 2010 foresaw that Chinese response would be the most authoritarian.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 2 2022 9:19 utc | 156

Heck, even just practising T'ai Chi can get you arrested.
Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 2 2022 9:17 utc | 154

Another China expert. Where do they come from? Is there a special training course for them? Our local park will be busy with exponents as ever on Sunday morning. I have yet to see them rounded up. Here, try this:

Come sunrise, parks and public areas across China, and increasingly the rest of the world, fill up with people doing tai chi (太极拳). While many understand tai chi to be a sport, there are those who would call it a martial art and others who would argue it to be a dance or a series of yogic stretches. Definitions aside, the benefits on body and mind have been celebrated by individuals worldwide, but what do we really know about tai chi and where it came from?

https://theculturetrip.com/asia/china/articles/a-brief-history-of-tai-chi-in-china/

Right, it's Friday evening coming up and as I said earlier I am going on the piss now to enjoy live music, with milady. Enjoy the rest of your day, whatever time zone you are in.

Posted by: Walt | Dec 2 2022 9:44 utc | 157

A perfect storm....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiOYI9HWIkA

Posted by: denk | Dec 2 2022 9:47 utc | 158

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 1 2022 23:29 utc | 70

The main reason to get the booster is precisely that it restores protection against hospitalization, ICU and death. Otherwise it's not much better than the earlier ones with regard to infection and transmission. So the issue is whether one is in the at-risk population, i.e., old, overweight (ding, ding, for me), asthmatic, heart disease, etc..

As I said, we're all waiting for the vaccine which can deal with all variants (and the Republicans apparently killed the funding for that), and oral vaccines which will inhibit infection and transmission.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 2 2022 9:51 utc | 159

The Chinese medical system is still underdeveloped and can not handle large outbreaks in multiple big cities.

That sentence contains two core assertions, both are utterly absurd! Where did you pull that out of, the NYT?

It is like stating that "The US health care system is the cheapest, most efficient and best in the world" or "German health care is more primitive than that of Somalia". It is a complete derogation of reality, B, you should do better than that. It is pure neo-con fantasy.

Viewed from the perspective of the best interests of the patient,

1) Chinese health care is massively better than German health care. Unlike German health care - of which the primary goal is maximising profit for private companies - the primary goal of medicine in China is to maximise the health of the Chinese people. One is a parasitic operation for the benefit of Big Pharma, while the other is a service to society. It is less profitable for pharmaceutical manufacturers, but it is far better for patients. The standard of health care is first class, the hospitals are ultra-modern, and the medical staff have training of the highest levels. Denigrating the quality of Chinese health care is pure neo-con fantasy.

2) There is no country in the world anything like as well prepared for an epidemic as China - the Chinese response to the initial covid outbreak in December 2019/January 2020 is to this day without peer worldwide. The data speaks for itself. Specialist new hospitals were built in one week. Millions and millions of volunteers stepped forward to serve, including massive numbers of China's medical students. This was at that time a completely unknown (except to Western intelligence agencies and western militaries) virus - China sequenced it within one week of identification, and put all research in the public domain. While deaths in all the western countries were in the millions, total covid deaths in the whole of 2020 were - from memory - something like 1041 deaths in a country of 1.2 billion. Total cases of covid in the whole of China were also miniscule - from memory something like 400,000 up to end of 2020? (Not sure from memory but certainly low). I was there, in China, during March 2020. Covid precautions were reasonable, efficient, effective, well supported, and well observed - they did the job well. All this despite: (a) the disease was completely unknown when it first appeared, there was no known treatment at that time, they had to experiment to find what helped what did not; (b) it appeared shortly before Chinese New Year, when the absolute maximum people travel across the whole of China; (c) it appeared in Wuhan, one of the biggest transport hubs in China. Most of those 1041 (or whatever the number was) deaths from covid in 2019-2020 were in the first few weeks, when nobody (except the US military) knew how to treat covid; if China knew then what the rest of the world knew by the time cases started appearing in other countries, the numbers of Chinese deaths would have been even less. What China achieved in its handling of covid was nothing short of a miracle. Meanwhile, while the rest of the world suffered economic devastation as a result of covid, the Chinese economy qhuickly recovered and rebounded.

"Can not handle large outbreaks in multiple big cities" ??? Come on, B, you can pull a better one than that!

Posted by: BM | Dec 2 2022 9:54 utc | 160

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 2 2022 3:54 utc | 107

Mostly agree. The main point which all the arguers forget is that the proper response to an epidemic, developed over the last couple decades due to SARS and MERS, is: test, trace and isolate. The Asian countries did this, because they went through those pandemics. The US didn't, over multiple administrations, despite having been repeatedly warned that it was only a matter of time before a serious pandemic arrived here.

Then comes Trump - the biggest moron in US history as President. He actively tried to prevent people from taking the pandemic seriously. So the result was incompetence at all levels - from the CDC, the Administration health officials, and the federal and state government response. That's it in a nutshell - unprepared morons ruined the US response. San Francisco came through it reasonably well, compared to Los Angeles, New York and other major cities. It took the economic hit, but kept the deaths to a minimum.

Had the US response been along the lines of South Korea, which had a program down to the neighborhood level, the lockdown would have been short, the virus would have had no where to go, and the country could have relied on masks, hand washing, and distancing until the vaccines arrived. The economy would not have crashed (at least not from the lockdown to the same degree), medical treatment of people with serious illnesses would not have compromised, etc.

The whole problem was because the US government doesn't give a rat's ass about its population (or anyone else's population, either.)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 2 2022 10:04 utc | 161

What a sight to behold !
hehehehe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eo3ZVvaefw&t=26s

Posted by: denk | Dec 2 2022 10:13 utc | 162

I think Walt knows what I'm referring to. For everyone else, here's an informative link.
https://h2g2.com/edited_entry/A2922644

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 2 2022 10:37 utc | 163

Hi all,

The globalist are pure evil, but the china's zero covid policy is ridiculous and a threat for their economy and for the peoples.
The real science before 2019 told us that pandemic always "stop" naturally after 3-5 years, the virus is less lethal and more infectious which is exactly what the data suggest for SARS-COV2.

Actually this virus replaced the common flux as did the H1N1 to kill very sick and very old and we would have a common mortality without the false "vaccine" that kill now 18-49 old peoples (as data show) and stupid Covid policy that pushed peoples in unemployment misery and suicide.

This is true also for China.
It's not because globalist are trying to destroy our civilisation that we should be blind about what totalitarian commies do to their country.

Swedian did very well without lock-down and mask mandate and the OECD data are clear:

Overall death excess 2020-2022
------------------------------
Sweden: +6%
Canada: +29.2%
USA: +54.1%

The USA's problem was lock-down and mask but also obesity which is a great comorbidity factor.

Posted by: Guillaume | Dec 2 2022 10:39 utc | 164

"While the zero-Covid measures at times seem harsh they are also a necessity. "

That is a ridiculously pro-authoritarian/anti-human rights statement that is not supported by any science or commoon sense.

Posted by: seedeevee | Dec 1 2022 23:01 utc | 63

Let's see, what is a defense of "human rights"?

You get forced to go back to work/school, with zero paid sick leave, and zero precautions against a dangerous contagion, which guarantees you will catch COVID again and again and again, thus shaving off many years off your lifespan. And that is all done in the name of keeping the capitalist machine going in its current form.

Or the necessary measures are taken to eliminate the threat and protect people's lives.

I wonder which approach cares more about "human rights"...

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 2 2022 10:49 utc | 165

What I don't understand is why China is seemingly not implementing Ivermectin and/or Chinese Traditional Medicine approaches which would further undermine the mRNA Western vector.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 1 2022 17:24 utc | 1

Perhaps because it doesn't work? Sometimes the most obvious explanation is the real one.

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 2 2022 10:49 utc | 166

Much bloviating over a nasty flu variation of no danger to 99.5% of a population. 'Covid responses' are political/ideological tools and have zero health rationale.

Posted by: stan | Dec 1 2022 17:36 utc | 4

At least a dozen countries around the world are approaching or have exceeded 1% of their population having died of COVID, so where the f*** did your smooth brain come up with that "no danger for 99.5%" nonsense?

And there is no lasting immunity, so all those millions of people worldwide died for absolutely no reason and they are just the beginning.

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 2 2022 10:50 utc | 167

Second, the current variants of COVID are so weak now they barely amount to a common cold. There is literally no longer any rationale (not that there ever was to begin with) for national lockdowns and other COVID restrictions. It really does make more sense to just open up and let COVID spread until herd immunity is achieved. But, as I said, West Taiwan is a communist country, and communists are incompetent as well as malevolent.

Posted by: Monos | Dec 1 2022 21:19 utc | 54

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

What herd immunity? We are still talking about that in 2022? When people are on their second and third infections?

And if it "barely amounts to a common cold", why are 600-700 dying every day as a baseline in the US (official numbers are currently half that, but that is because a lot of localities stopped counting, the excess deaths tell the real story) in between waves (and we are just entering the next major one)?

Then there is the "minor" caveat than another Omicron-like event is just around the corner and it is under absolutely no obligation to not revert back to a Delta-like phenotype.

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 2 2022 10:51 utc | 168

The initial outbreak in New York City between February and June 2020 had a crude death rate of 9.2% and 32.1% among hospitalized patients. Assuming everyone who died from the disease did so in a hospital and not in the streets, it gives a hospitalization rate of 28.7%.

The fatality rate in the NYC outbreak is quite close to the initial fatality rates reported in China and Italy.

So either there was a strain an order of magnitude deadlier in the initial outbreak or there were 2 million uncounted cases (to match the official 1% fatality rate) in the NYC outbreak only a few weeks after the disease was identified. Note that the NYC population in 2019 was 8.3 million.

Posted by: Sid Victor Cattoni | Dec 1 2022 19:53 utc | 32

There were a lot of uncounted cases, at the time testing was nearly nonexistent except for the most severe cases. The serosurvey that was done in the summer of 2020 showed 20% seropositivity

But that should not be mistakenly taken to mean that the original strain was super deadly and it has been getting milder and milder ever since. That is complete nonsense and the exact opposite of what actually happened.

Early on more people died because they didn't know how to treat it. So it was 1.5% or so IFR (Infection Fatality Rate) for a population with the demographic structure of the US or Western Europe (median age 40-45). A tenth to a fifth of that in the Third world where median age is 25.

Steroids and anticoagulants cut that down in half after the first really disastrous wave.

But then new variants came that were deadlier. Beta, Gamma and Delta were all 3-4x more deadly than the original Wuhan strain.

Which is why in India they had 50-60% infected in the big cities by the end of 2020, but only about a million people died (median age 25, very low levels of obesity, etc.) and it wasn't really noticed that much (a million people is a lot in isolation, but India has 1.4 billion in total, and most people there have the common courtesy of just lying down and dying at home rather than seeking medical help, which us spoiled brats in the West have not learned yet). However, then Delta came, reinfected a lot of people, infected nearly everyone who hadn't been infected, and in total killed another 5 million or so, all in the span of about 4 months, and that was very much noticed, with people being cremated on sidewalks and bodies thrown into rivers because there was no firewood left for cremations.

Then Omicron came from a completely different branch of the tree, it was slightly less lethal than the original strain, and because there was so much immunity in the population due to vaccinations and prior infection, and because it represented a new serotype, it wiped out everything else. Since then Omicron itself has been adapting to the population and becoming more lethal again, though still very far off from Delta.

At some point we will get another Omicron-like event, i.e. something completely new pops out, and there is absolutely no reason to think it will not be more like Delta, i.e. very bad, than like Omicron.

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 2 2022 10:55 utc | 169

Hi all,

The globalist are pure evil, but the china's zero covid policy is ridiculous and a threat for their economy and for the peoples.
The real science before 2019 told us that pandemic always "stop" naturally after 3-5 years, the virus is less lethal and more infectious which is exactly what the data suggest for SARS-COV2.

Posted by: Guillaume | Dec 2 2022 10:39 utc | 163

This is absolutely retarded

Why did we have smallpox for centuries, and it never attenuated - it still killed hundreds of millions in the 20th century - if pandemics "always stop naturally after 3-5 years" and viruses always "become less lethal"?

SARS-CoV-2 itself debunked this stupidity -- Delta was 4x more lethal than the original strain, and every single other first-generation variant was also more lethal (in the 1.5-4x range). Omicron was the only exception, but it too has been becoming more lethal in the last year.

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 2 2022 11:06 utc | 170

Rubbish. This virus was no worse than a bad flu back in 2020

Posted by: KirklodgeJo | Dec 2 2022 8:57 utc | 151

When was the last time a "bad flu" killed 1% of the population?

Because that happened in the span of a couple months in some places in Italy.

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 2 2022 11:06 utc | 171

Posted by: Walt | Dec 2 2022 8:34 utc | 150

Walt you are referring to this. It's in my city's online media. So it's official. And even official media have stated that laboratories that falsify nucleic acid tests are being punished and all related personnel. That means local officials who conspired with various greedy people to profit from lockdowns.
The Beijing issued 20 Optimised Measures paper really saved my city from further abuses by cruel and uncaring local officials. The paper is widely and regularly disseminated so all Chinese know the contents and measure their local district govts by the paper.

Here's what you said.
Again, serious and fair minded readers really should read what is really happening in China. Not the bullshit that the anti China trolls in here is sprouting.

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MjM5NTU5MjkyMQ==&mid=2651147779&idx=1&sn=8694e74865b235138bfb66c7f9dccc4e&chksm=bd07c1b58a7048a37f5b526c50cbe8b106bfbcb71ac9567153d26eabc6011e5620e7648d63cd&mpshare=1&srcid=1202yQQOdfKZDGQce48frQpY&sharer_sharetime=1669978962463&sharer_shareid=3e26ef56beede40b626117e5833e86f8&from=groupmessage&scene=1&subscene=10000&clicktime=1669979016&enterid=1669979016&sessionid=0&ascene=1&fasttmpl_type=0&fasttmpl_fullversion=6442768-en_US-zip&fasttmpl_flag=0&realreporttime=1669979016234&devicetype=android-31&version=28001eac&nettype=WIFI&abtest_cookie=AAACAA%3D%3D&lang=en&exportkey=n_ChQIAhIQC%2BDSPv%2FjypRkOnrA%2BqAabRLsAQIE97dBBAEAAAAAAFjMN73Qg0wAAAAOpnltbLcz9gKNyK89dVj0AYHYM8EO2nmYjolEnW37dGijFBldfM4tDZo%2FRtbAUhhwFGKl1aFxVPe71Cdk3FnOMv8EN2PAtCgcZaUpmtGFCud1RdQxcc7NZ%2BmD%2FfZnezG%2BjkljlO0Uv8S8PCLII2OZ6fZkpr8IfDe5smRjhEv8T71FmrtzhSZy%2Fa14pf48MIscsg%2BceTJ9Tl%2FLcwcQKStNHdYnOyEMysETnyo0HeQT%2BCEEl3I5%2FOf2EnLo%2By%2F3E8%2FPK%2FDwQB2MZ4DWhFVaE3HPPUMmqh77&pass_ticket=j5rm0suoC%2BkA2h55ocB83zRg6mDlvOAl7alTsafwBCJ%2B3Q5Xf3taH1g%2Fpx0Lvk6E&wx_header=3

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 2 2022 11:44 utc | 172

The Rockefeller Foundation paper from 2010 foresaw that Chinese response would be the most authoritarian.
@ Jonathan W | 155


In other stunning news overpaid researchers discover children still like candy and icecream.

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 2 2022 11:47 utc | 173

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 2 2022 11:06 utc | 170

You're wasting your time. I went through all this back in 2020 here with the deniers.

These people are on a par with the idiots thinking Ukraine is winning. Unfortunately, with the pandemic, there is no upcoming Russian offensive to prove them wrong. As Martyanov says, you can't convince a moron that he's a moron because he's a moron.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 2 2022 11:47 utc | 174

I really wonder if some people are really born as idiots. It their hate towards China turn them into retards.
It seems that many places in the perfect white western world is missing internet to do real internet searches.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-12/17/c_139598385.htm

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 2 2022 12:04 utc | 175

"Being Vaccinated however, did in fact TEND TO REDUCE the overall spread of Covid-19 that would otherwise have been the case - and for all variants afaik - why?

Because the vaccines tended to reduce / restrain the progress of the DISEASE which in each individual (all other things being equal) in turn reduced the production of higher levels of virus in the body ....."

SeanAU | Dec 2 2022 | 107

The cmRNA vaccines have nothing to do with Sars-Cov-2. cmRNA = chemically modified RNA (aka modRNA). Sars-Cov-2 is coded with Uracil, a nucleobase. cmRNA is coded with Pseudouridine, an isomer of Uridine (Uracil has been replaced 100% with Pseudouridine) and a nucleoside. As such, all of the resulting antibodies (mostly binding and not neutralizing) will be isomeric. Isomeric abs were discovered in 1994. Here is the mechanism: Covid-19, especially Delta, is caused by two lethal antibodies, REGN10987 and B38 (normal abs, IgG format). As such, the cmRNA genetic code will sabotage the immune system to produce a huge number of isomeric abs, and less of the normal abs (binding/neutralizing, including the two lethal abs which have been described above). Now, the vaccinated person will have this very large quantity of isomeric abs in their organisms (including the isomeric lethal version of REGN10987 and B38). The adenovirus vaccines have a manufacturing error to start with: https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-558954/v1

Sars-Cov-2 is a mycobacterium: M. avium. Omicron is M. influenzae (which uses the DPP4 cellular receptor). M. avium is cell wall deficient: it looks just like a virus, and also it passes through the same filters. Delta had its prion domain activated, the P618R mutation.

So, now Omicron is going to activate its prion domain (the P618R mutation) also, its virulence will approach that of Sars or even Mers (which is also a mycobacterium), it will manifest as a flu. MPV (which is actually mousepox) is connected to Sars-Cov-2 through the non-canonical RNA G-quadruplex structure, coronapox. Let us remember that back in december of 2021, city of Xian was in lockdown not because of Covid-19, but due to Hantavirus (which is actually Brucella bacterium, which has commond genome with M. tuberculosis).

How is Sars-Cov-2 transmitted? Primary mode: atmosphere to person (it has an astrobiological source). Secondary mode: person to person. In just two weeks, back in march of 2020, Wuhan was replaced by D614G. Here is the mechanism: the best microbiologist of the 20th century, Kurt Blome, had discovered in the 1930s that bacteria communicate with each other through radio waves (a fact which was rediscovered in 2009 by L. Montagnier). HeLa cells (also discovered by K. Blome, this technology was brought the US in the 1940s) and spike proteins act as amplifiers and antennas for the mycobacterium in the labs. Then this mycobacteria will send cellular electromagnetic copies to the mycobacteria in the atmosphere, that is how you get the new variants.

Posted by: Sandokhan | Dec 2 2022 12:53 utc | 176

I agree with Justin Trudeau: people have the right to protest against covid restrictions, but only in China.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 2 2022 12:56 utc | 177

If it were not for the "threat" to Trudeau posed by the new leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, Pierre Poilievre, Canada would still have its own draconian measures in place.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 2 2022 12:58 utc | 178

My first and last comment on this ridiculous aspect to this topic.

A simple Fact, (sigh), no medical authority in the world, neither national Govt Health Dept anywhere, nor the WHO nor the CDC, nor those who made the bloody vaccines EVER SAID the Covid-19 vaccinations prevented infection
Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 2 2022 3:54 utc

LIES. Yes, Ridiculous lies, except millions died from those lies.

https://thehighwire.com/

BONUS: Del roasts Trudy at the beginning and end of the program.

Any who believe SeanAU's absolute bollocks can go the the highwire and see for themselves how wrong he is. So wrong that even he must know he is lying.

This fits with the CURRENT attempt to escape responsibility for the premature deaths of millions, both from the "virus" created in a US-controlled lab (probably NOT Wuhan) and the Jabs.

The FDA/CDC claiming that (for but one example) not using Ivermectin was "just a recommendation", when no pharmacist in North America was allowed to fill a prescription and no doctor was allowed to write one. Some still did and now face being thrown out of their accrediting organizations.

Desperate is the description for the Covid Mafia, as once it is demonstrated in court that Pfizer, Fraudci and Gates KNEW from the beginning that the "virus" and the Jabs were designed to kill.

The Pzizer approval submission to Japan shows this clearly. Rigged testing... anyone with ANY health issue was not permitted in the "study", and yet it was deemed "safe and effective" and blast-casted in wall-to-wall "brought to you by Pfizer" MSM propaganda.

All the perps and dupes know that Vaccine Pushers(inc) only enjoy immunity if there is no malfeasance.

There was provable (from their own records) malfeasance... fraud on a scale most people cannot imagine it.

That means one thing... in civilized countries, prison, and in places with the death penalty...

An if this all gets recognized by the courts as TREASON, (they claimed "national security" for the the mandates) the death penalty awaits.

Executions that should be broadcasted live as a warning to the Rothschild class they are next.

Posted by: Old canadian | Dec 2 2022 13:11 utc | 179

why are 600-700 dying every day
Posted by: Tbx | Dec 2 2022 10:51 utc | 167

Why? The lab viruses are for population reduction. It's just that the Chinese are too smart for that game. Maybe they value life more? Maybe that's why they're not so much into war also these days?

Posted by: HelenB | Dec 2 2022 13:16 utc | 180

@12

I quite like the Global Times very unbiased and factual reporting just like Sputnik and RT.

Posted by: Wappius Maximus | Dec 2 2022 13:19 utc | 181

You're wasting your time. I went through all this back in 2020 here with the deniers.

These people are on a par with the idiots thinking Ukraine is winning. Unfortunately, with the pandemic, there is no upcoming Russian offensive to prove them wrong. As Martyanov says, you can't convince a moron that he's a moron because he's a moron.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 2 2022 11:47 utc | 173

You are probably right.

Posted by: Tbx | Dec 2 2022 13:19 utc | 182

It their hate towards China turn them into retards.
Posted by: Surferket | Dec 2 2022 12:04 utc | 174

I despise godless regimes which persecute people for expressing their spirituality wherever they're found in the world.
https://h2g2.com/edited_entry/A2922644

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 2 2022 13:20 utc | 183

The west has been concern trolling China over their successful zero covid policy, attempting to get the CPC to drop it and "let her ripp" so that millions of Chinese will be killed or impaired like the west has done to its own populations. I don't think China is stupid enough to fall for it.

Posted by: FVK | Dec 2 2022 13:23 utc | 184

And to kick the door open further on the Covid Mafia, readers can listen to Kary Mullis's opinion of Fraudci. Mullis, who got a NOBEL PRIZE for inventing the PCR test which he explicitly said should NEVER, EVER be used as it was in the Plandemic(tm).

Or believe Fraudci who we know baldfaced-lied to the entire planet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8FYWzkR1ek

Posted by: Old canadian | Dec 2 2022 13:24 utc | 185

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 2 2022 4:20 utc | 112

1. I wasn't singling out China in the way you characterize, just pointing out that it is like every other country or population: it has a certain percentage of sociopaths. That was the point, that EVERY society has to deal with that. I believe that the principal challenge of any political system is the degree to which it harnesses those elements to benefit society versus allowing them to run rampant and ruin it.

Your post evidences a habit common in internet communication these days: a willingness to judge others from on high and talk down to them. Just sayin'...

Also,you project a warped view of my interest in China echoing the snark of others here assuming I have some sort of hatred. I don't. Nor do I follow mainstream media reports except breaking news. I shared the video of the riots, for example, because the story was breaking. I didn't endorse the views of the broadcaster (who looks like a paid NGO type to me) nor did I buy her story that this was the biggest thing since Tianamen. Why? Because I am not there and don't know. It seems to me that people in China chanting 'Down with Xi!' is most likely unusual, I would guess highly unusual, but that also could be staged. By Xi's people too. I don't know one way or another and have no opinion about it.

However it is an important country, it is a HUGE country and it is generally not well understood by outsiders like myself even though nowadays her actions effect us all. Quite possibly it is not well understood by the Chinese themselves, just like most Westerners are baffled by their own societies. Interest in China should not be mistaken for some sort of animus. I am puzzled by China and curious. Is it communist as many here say? Or capitalist as many others say? Seems like both pov have merit. To what degree is it following its classic, cultural confucian and daoist-buddhist roots, and to what degree did the communist period succeed in purging many of those cultural streams? The leadership promotes materialism - as do all polities in this era - but are the people all on board with that? I am skeptical of all governments, not just China's, but many here seem to worship at the shrine of Putin and Xi and get offended and accuse you of shilling for the CIA if you voice any skepticism. Binary thinking. Not my problem!

The Princelings are a very real thing. Do some research. They are not a myth or anything like that. I just don't know enough to know who exactly they are (all Chinese names look the same to me so I can't ever remember them) and how many are in the Politburo or other leadership positions. You can start with Xi who is one for sure. Last time I read about it a few months ago, I seem to recall that several were in the Select Committee (7) which got reshuffed last month but maybe that was in the larger Politburo (25) and of course there may be many more. One article said that Hu Jintao's influence was to marginalize Princeling types but his influence is now on the wane which is why that incident at the Congress created a kerfuffle in more than just Western media.

Just the fact that Xi is Premier AND a Princeling raises alarm bells for me that this is not the purely meritocratic system as described. Most governments and leadership classes lie to the people about how pure their motivations are etc. It would be surprising, frankly, if China's leadership doesn't do it as well. China, being so huge a population, needs a stable, centralized State. (This makes Westerners nervous; and come to think of it India doesn't have one like China's with the same number of people but they are also far less impressive in many ways.) But with centralization comes the clear and present danger of totalitarianism or fascism. That's just common sense and again has nothing to do with any jaundiced attitudes about China though I am for sure concerned that China is going to emerge as a super-powerful fascist state.

About fifteen years ago I was in a seminar with about 100 westerners and 200 Chinese in the US. It was with a Western Chinese Medical Qigong master who spent 10 years guarding herds of horses in the wild areas near Tibet. He was in the West because he was not allowed to teach his methods or even treat patients in China. I do not know if that has changed but the old qigong hospitals that were open in the 80's I believe have been closed down. TCM is the modernized, communist-friendly version of this sort of thing which has stripped out all the non-scientific elements. In other words, it has eradicated the roots. In my book, that is not good and therefore am not predisposed to assume that the Chinese leadership class and governance system is all that good either. But I don't know. And in any case generally am not a great fan of this modern, materialist era though it's not a big deal. It is what it is.

Anyway, one day after lunch I sat at the table where about 50 of the Chinese were having an animated conversation about something. I had no idea what but it looked political. Some were very angry, some sad, some worried, some excited. I stayed to watch because I wanted to feel how Chinese emote with each other. Asians often seem inscrutable to Westerners but here with their own kind, as it were, they were far from that. Indeed, their emotions were pretty much the same as our own and very easy to feel through their speech and gestures. At one point one of them turned to me and asked in Chinese if I understood them. I had to get it translated and they were surprised and said 'but you look like you understand what we are saying, I can see it in your eyes.' I explained that I was just following their feelings since I couldn't follow the words. That created an amused buzz for a minute or so and then they resumed. The point of the story? I am not against Chinese people. I am leary of their - and indeed any - government especially since I know first hand from my studies and practice in some of their esoteric traditions that the current Chinese regime often suppressed such stuff whilst boasting about how old their civilization is. There is a degree of hypocrisy there which is undeniable - at least regarding that particular, and admittedly small, aspect of their culture which I happen to know a little about.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 2 2022 13:28 utc | 186

@Posted by: Walt | Dec 2 2022 9:44 utc | 156

"Gt Stroller" is just a low IQ retard repeating falun gong (CIA) propaganda.

Posted by: FVK | Dec 2 2022 13:31 utc | 187

Lei castigating Western MNCs to stop supporting the 1984 regime; Chinese financial mind strongly pointing them at future losses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxzaJwjhTPQ

This is the one moment Xi Jinping can blame all former suppression on just deceased Jiang Zemin: will he take it? If not he owns it too.

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2022 13:47 utc | 188

What are called viruses are really exosomes that are produced by your body during the healing process. The Universe is symbiotic.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Dec 2 2022 4:28 utc | 113

Well said. I'm not sure they are ONLY produced by the body during the healing process. Seems to me they are genetic code messages transmitted by the world's living creatures to all other living creatures - like software updates. They have bacteria in space, apparently. If so, then no doubt viruses too. Then there are the smaller bacteriophages or microphages (and so on ad infinitum no doubt). Globalresearch has an old article arguing that viruses don't even really exist. I don't trust that site, but they often go where others fear to tread so at least much of their stuff is original.

The part that concerns me, personally, has always been the biolab quotient. How dangerous are these altered things? As someone who got Lyme Disease which almost certainly came via biolab-enhanced hybrid strains inserted into ticks in the 1960s-70s (thanks to ex-Nazi Paperclip scientists imported to Plum Island in the Long Island Sound) and is still causing people problems today, am concerned.

Of course it is increasingly looking like the mRNA tech is causing widespread clotting and other issues that are killing off far more people - especially younger people without preexisting comorbities (aka 'already dying') - than the original flu which in some parts of the world was seemingly ghastly for a couple of months (China, Italy) and in other parts more or less invisible except in newspaper reports.

It's impossible to know one way or another: is it a truly deadly pandemic strain or an exagerated, politicized quasi hoax? Both sides have good arguments. In any case, I agree with what you say about viruses: regarding natural viruses as enemies to be avoided is a little silly.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 2 2022 13:49 utc | 189

Princelings: They are descendants of early period members of the Chinese Communist Party, elders who fought with the warlords, then the KMT, the Japanese, and finally the western imperialists, to free China from foreign domination.

Yes, that is the standard definition. And I see you agree with me that they are not some sort of myth that needs to be proven as some have been asking me to do - because they never heard of them presumably.

They don't have automatic promotions over other cadres but must prove their abilities at each stage of their work.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 2 2022 4:36 utc | 116
===============================

First, I don't 'hold it against them.' I am merely asking questions. It raises alarm bells, that's all.

Second: in that vein, can you prove that they are promoted only through merit. I know that is what is said. How do you know it is true? If you can get past (falsely) projecting I am a racist ignorant bigot who gets all his news from Youtubes and Yahoo, perhaps you can agree it's a valid question and concern.

Third: do you know how many of the Princelings are now in high office, also how many of them in general there are? Is it a tiny group of a few dozen or much more?

Thank you.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 2 2022 13:59 utc | 190

@ Scorpion | 188

Taking these "booster" shots is like Russian roulette; just re-label it to Fausti roulette or some such. Paying for this is the height of madness.

Being forced to take them is being a subject in culling the herd. Not stepping out of that pen confirms that you are a sheep ripe for slaughter, not just $having. Nature at work...

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2022 14:05 utc | 191

falun gong (CIA)
Posted by: FVK | Dec 2 2022 13:31 utc | 186

Lol. I was taught T'ai chi and Chi-gong by a Falun Gong master. He had nothing to do with the CIA. Their suppression and murder by the godless CCP is real, and well documented, though.

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Dec 2 2022 14:11 utc | 192

Viz post 189: I messed up the formatting and didn't notice during preview. My bad.

=============================

...the best microbiologist of the 20th century, Kurt Blome, had discovered in the 1930s that bacteria communicate with each other through radio waves (a fact which was rediscovered in 2009 by L. Montagnier). HeLa cells (also discovered by K. Blome, this technology was brought the US in the 1940s) and spike proteins act as amplifiers and antennas for the mycobacterium in the labs. Then this mycobacteria will send cellular electromagnetic copies to the mycobacteria in the atmosphere, that is how you get the new variants.

Posted by: Sandokhan | Dec 2 2022 12:53 utc | 175

Fascinating. Thanks. From my research due to having Lyme Disease, I came to the tentative conclusion that viruses and bacteria always work in tandem, never as entirely discrete vectors. Bacteria clearly transmit and receive information somehow - interesting to learn it's via radio - since they cluster and form colonies with different roles for the cells on the outside than those on the inside. How do they know to do that? Obviously there is some way of communicating. Looks like ants do something quite similar.

Some say this transmission mechanism is how our own bodies are ordered, how a cell knows in the womb to become a nose cell versus an eyeball cell or a big toe cell etc. and that these communicative pathways are the basis of what later remain as the meridians in the Chinese medical system which originally were directly perceived by qigong adepts (aka yogis). It's actually a lot of fun to 'activate' them with mind-attention if you know how, and then feel particular points along that meridian once you have activated it.

Montagnier was doing fascinating work with transmitting various frequencies into water over long distance which could be used as medicine. Of course he was ridiculed by his peers. Who wants medicines made of water? No money in it!!

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 2 2022 14:28 utc | 193

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2022 14:05 utc | 190

Agreed. But as you can see on this board - and everywhere - there are a wide range of opinions, many of them strongly held. Many people feel that those who disagree with them are morons or wicked. It's the same with this China discussion. If you don't think Xi et alia are unblemished savior types you are a moron or wicked.

I would never take one of those shots, but I don't get angry and feel like insulting or arresting those who do. The whole debate about making untested products mandatory for billions was a real wake-up call. I realised at that point that the underlying Common Law principles of individual and collective sovereignty in western polities was basically over. Then the election in the US in 2020 made that blatantly obvious. That Republic has clearly fallen and with it the entire Western order. Then the Ukraine geopolitical earthquake came right on cue, with many of the covid restrictions being lifted just as the tanks rolled in. (Pure coincidence of course!)

In any case, as nations, we have gone beyond sheoplehood to Dead Man Walking status!

It will be painful and millions will die. But it has to happen. The big question is whether what comes after is better or worse. Signs are right now that it will be worse, but hope springs eternal...

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 2 2022 15:06 utc | 194

As I said, we're all waiting for the vaccine which can deal with all variants (and the Republicans apparently killed the funding for that), and oral vaccines which will inhibit infection and transmission.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 2 2022 9:51 utc | 158

That is what you think you are waiting for. While the big pharma industry merely wants more profitable perpetual customers. They lied about their inoculations (not a vaccine) and will lie about their new oral treatments.

Viruses cannot multiply in an alkaline environment, they dislike heat and UV light. Foods high in Vitamin D, plant flavonoids (quercetin), etc. also suppress spread. This was all known, yet suppressed or deliberately discredited.

For a self-declared anarchist, you have allowed yourself to be excessively dependent on big pharma and government.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 2 2022 15:13 utc | 195

Oh come fuckheads, this is stupid bullshit...shithole country China is declining as its buddy fascist RuZZia...so SHUT UP, SHOVE this nonsense up your goddamn ass and FUCK OFF, you FUCKING MAGA MORONS!!!!!!!

Posted by: Jeff the Beast | Dec 2 2022 15:15 utc | 196

nor those who made the bloody vaccines EVER SAID the Covid-19 vaccinations prevented infection

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 2 2022 3:54 utc

You Are Lying !!!!
I recall listening to the radio in my car and hearing exactly what you wrote above so many times that eventually I would turn off the radio if someone started with the BS. It was an excellent test for identifying the grifters of the Pharma Mafia.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Dec 2 2022 15:18 utc | 197

This is the one moment Xi Jinping can blame all former suppression on just deceased Jiang Zemin: will he take it? If not he owns it too.

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2022 13:47 utc | 187

I opened the video, though I find her presentations hard to follow (and too long), and she mentions that Jiang's family supposedly has the largest fortune (500 billion USD). Do we know how much offshore fortune the Xi family has accumulated? And the other Princeling types?

There are similar rumours about Putin.

Of course I have no idea if any of these stories are true or false nor, for example, if Xi's recent anti-corruption purge of hundreds of thousands benefited the country greatly or consolidated his power. If the former, then clearly there was a massive corruption problem in China (hardly a surprise since every country has this problem from time to time if not always) which has been fixed (for now), or there is now a massive corruption problem in China which is getting worse.

Anyway, they are going through a Great Reset process after which they will emerge with an altered politico-social reality. The same is happening in the West. My big concern or question about China is simply this: are they part of the Reset business (whatever it is which is certainly not what has been publicly stated thus far) or against it? Looks to me like all major countries, despite the seeming conflict in Ukraine which could well be a very large manufactured crisis IMO, are on board with this agenda.

In which case, at least in my book, they are corrupt. There may be a valid need for a Reset but it should be done properly, openly and without deceptive subterfuge. That is not currently the case.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 2 2022 15:18 utc | 198

This is really about INFORMED CONSENT. Look at the "excess deaths" in high-Jab countries vs. low-Jab countries.

High-Jab, excess deaths as high as double the 10-year average of pre-2019 levels. Low-Jab, no change from the long-term average... And the excess deaths began spiking within days of the Jabs being mandated.

So how do all the Covid Mafia defenders explain all those Sudden Adult Death Syndrome deaths? And a spike in myocarditis in the young?

WHAT CHANGED? The Jabs were mandated, while proven, low-risk medications like Ivermectin were prohibited. The correlation is unmistakable, the causation is being repeatedly proven as we type.

Not rocket science or brain surgery here folks.

I also don't care if anyone wants to take the Jab. Think of it as the ultimate IQ test. But if you do willingly (not coerced by propaganda, job loss or other dirty tricks), DON'T WHINE ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES.

The loudmouths here made their choice, and are now they are afraid Pfizer, Fauci, Gates et.al. were not completely forthcoming about the potential side effects. Silly me, what do I mean, "not completely forthcoming"... THEY LIED AND COVERED IT UP.

AND YOU SHOULD BE AFRAID.

Ivermectin ALONE could have saved AT LEAST 80% of those that died "from covid".

That is MURDER folks.

Posted by: Old canadian | Dec 2 2022 15:33 utc | 199

I’m old enough to remember that time Obama’s DHS was found to have covertly coordinated police efforts across the country to violently extinguish the peaceful Occupy Wall St. movement.

Posted by: nwwoods | Dec 2 2022 16:22 utc | 200

« previous page | next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.