Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 01, 2022

China - Protest Instigators And Zero-Covid Policies

Within the last two days the New York Times produced four anti-China opinion pieces:

All four predict doom for China and president Xi's leadership. In typical color-revolution fashion the sudden onslaught of these pieces follows recent reports of minor protests in some Chinese cities related to zero-Covid measures.

But the biggest recent protest was actually a labor conflict at a factory where the Taiwanese contract manufacturer Foxconn is producing iPhones:

A violent workers’ revolt at the world’s largest iPhone factory this week in central China is further scrambling Apple’s strained supply and highlighting how the country’s stringent zero-Covid policy is hurting global technology firms.

The troubles started last month when workers left the factory campus in Zhengzhou, the capital of the central province of Henan, due to Covid fears. Short on staff, bonuses were offered to workers to return.

But protests broke out this week when the newly hired staff said management had reneged on their promises. The workers, who clashed with security officers wearing hazmat suits, were eventually offered cash to quit and leave.

Within a day that labor conflict was largely resolved.

Other protests were mostly small symbolic events carefully designed to get some media attention in the 'West'.


For a huge country like China the total number of protests was laughable small:

Nathan Ruser @Nrg8000 - 23:17 UTC · Nov 30, 2022

For our China Protest Tracker map, we tracked reports of 7 protests that took place across China on November 29th. Totalling 51 protests since November 25th, across 24 cities. See the third edition of our map.

There are signs of foreign meddling:

Angelo Giuliano 🇮🇹 🇨🇭/ living in 🇨🇳 @Angelo4justice3 - 3:08 AM · Nov 30, 2022

Telegram Channel / protests China
They have open channel with Western journalists, here is the list.
Here a list of organisers, all based outside China.
Sydney Daddy one of them, YouTuber based in Australia.
So much for "organic" movement.

Covid protest YES, foreign meddling NO

To me this looks as if some 'western' color-revolution instigators are trying to hitch a ride with reasonable protests against some zero-Covid measures. They are likely to fail.

Exactly three years ago Wuhan reported the first case of an unknown type of pneumonia. China had since then adopted a whatever-it-takes stand against the spread of Covid. While the zero-Covid measures at times seem harsh they are also a necessity. The Chinese medical system is still underdeveloped and can not handle large outbreaks in multiple big cities. Not all Chinese elderly are vaccinated. A free running epidemic would cost several million lives and would leave tens of millions hampered with long-Covid conditions.

That is unsatisfying for the young who are unlikely to die of Covid-19 but have to live with the zero-Covid restrictions. But China is a Confucian society. People in China are traditionally valuing their elderly. China's constitution makes care for the elderly in ones family an obligation for every Chinese citizen:

Article 49 Marriage, families, mothers and children shall be protected by the state.

Both husband and wife shall have the obligation to practice family planning. Parents shall have the obligation to raise and educate their minor children; adult children shall have the obligation to support and assist their parents. Infringement of the freedom of marriage is prohibited; mistreatment of senior citizens, women and children is prohibited.

China can therefore not open up and let the pandemic run its course. Its government would likely see more protest than now should it suddenly decide to fully open up and to let the elderly die.

But China can, as Peter Lee predicted, modify its current policies.

chinahand @chinahand - 12:54 UTC · Nov 30, 2022

My prediction that CCP crabwalking to a new covid policies (w/ collateral political and public health implications) holding up rather well. Subscription required!

Less Than Zero...Covid - Peter Lee's China Threat Report on Patreon.

Two weeks ago the Chinese National Health Commission had already announced 20 new guidelines.

What it can further do to avoid more demonstrations and unrest is to apply sensible zero-Covid measures in a less restricting way. Some local governments have already reacted to some of the protests:

Chinese cities including Beijing, Guangzhou and Chengdu, where the virus is rife, have continued to optimize their anti-epidemic policies in recent days, with Guangzhou resuming businesses, allowing dine-in services in low-risk areas; and shopping malls gradually opening in Beijing starting Thursday. Some cities have also started to allow close contacts to have home quarantine under certain conditions and exempt some groups from routine nucleic tests.

Chinese Vice Premier Sun Chunlan underlined again on Thursday the importance of continuously optimizing China's response to COVID-19, following similar remarks she made on Wednesday saying the country is facing a new situation and new tasks in epidemic prevention and control as the pathogenicity of the Omicron virus weakens.

Epidemiologists said such optimized measures aims to strike a better balance between COVID-19 control and ensuring people's normal lives. Allowing home quarantine for some risk groups also relieves pressure of already strained hospital resources.

China wants to hold out as "the pathogenicity of the Omicron virus weakens."

The Omicron variant seems to be more transmissible but less lethal than the original version of SARS-CoV-2 or the delta variant. But we do not know if it will further develop in that direction. New variants are found on a nearly daily basis. If China can hold out for another years until an even milder variant becomes prominent it probably can avoid a huge number of deaths.

Some economist predict that China will open up around the mid of next year:

China is expected to fully lift its Covid restrictions in the third quarter of 2023, leading to a dramatic economic rebound, said Hu Yifan, regional chief investment officer and chief China economist at UBS Global Wealth Management.

The estimate echoes a forecast by Bloomberg economists, who said they expect a full reopening by mid-2023. A survey by Bloomberg News earlier this month showed that most economists see reopening starting in the second quarter of 2023 after China’s annual top political meetings.

The Chinese government has given no public indication on the timing of an exit from the current “zero-Covid” pandemic control policy, although some municipal governments recently eased controls.

The Times writer who hope for some revolution in China will likely be disappointed.

China's economy is doing reasonably well. The people are mostly content with reasonable health measure and everything else is negotiable.

'Western' op-ed writers like to paint picture of China as a dictatorship suppressing its people. But that is not what China is.

Posted by b on December 1, 2022 at 17:11 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Thanks for the posting b

Yes, the West is projecting all its faults on China and those projections will not stick.

I think the West is starting to suffer from all the lies and waking up to them but we are in the middle of it so its hard to tell.

What I don't understand is why China is seemingly not implementing Ivermectin and/or Chinese Traditional Medicine approaches which would further undermine the mRNA Western vector.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 1 2022 17:24 utc | 1

Japan Times takes a similar line to Lee's. I'm not sure that I agree but the truth s that China's ability to sustain an independent policy in a world in which borders are no barrier against the infections tolerated, if not encouraged, by those practising "herd immunity' policies.
Other factors are the relatively primitive state of the Health care system and the reality that it is to an important extent based on traditional healing arts.

This is from Japan Times
"With demonstrators having upped the pressure on Beijing to change its stringent “COVID-zero” policy, the Chinese leadership’s prioritization of containing infections rather than effectively rolling out treatment for the virus has left it with only a few hard options to address the protesters' demands.
While the government recognizes the damaging socioeconomic impact of quarantines and lockdowns, it also understands that ceasing efforts to contain the virus would rapidly overwhelm the health care system and lead to a surge in deaths.
"Faced with this dilemma, the Communist Party will eventually wind down restrictions, but for now the government is likely to follow a gradual multipronged strategy to the pandemic. This approach will see a focus on ramping up vaccinations, acquiring more effective jabs, changing the narrative about the virus, finding better treatment and improving communication.
“There is a very narrow corridor out of this conundrum,” said Vincent Brussee, a governance researcher at the Berlin-based Mercator Institute for China Studies.
"Brussee said the Chinese authorities first need to create “a window of opportunity” for a reopening by continuing strategic measures and small-scale lockdowns, while curbing the arbitrary nature of measures and supporting negatively affected areas.
"During this time, Beijing would need to quickly increase vaccination rates for the elderly, improve scientific health communication to the public and prepare health care resources such as intensive care beds and anti-viral drugs.
“Opening-up should then be gradual and follow vaccination rates,” Brusee noted, pointing out that this would be similar to the 20-point adjustments China’s National Health Commission (NHC) released last month, which eased certain measures affecting travel, quarantine, lockdowns on businesses and testing, as well as other aspects of policy.
"However, poor communication has led to these changes being implemented inefficiently, as highlighted in the protests that have erupted across the country.
"A series of small tweaks
"There are signs that Beijing is beginning to change tack, though, with the country’s top official in charge of the COVID-19 response, Vice Premier Sun Chunlan, declaring Wednesday that China is entering a new phase in fighting the virus as the omicron variant weakens and more people get vaccinated...."

Posted by: bevin | Dec 1 2022 17:25 utc | 2

thanks b...

it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks, the old dog here being the usa and its regime change or destabilizing agenda...

i agree with your line here - "some 'western' color-revolution instigators are trying to hitch a ride with reasonable protests against some zero-Covid measures"

now bring on round zillion and 1 on the talk of covid.. i can see it now.. another thread devoted to talk about covid.. oh well..

Posted by: james | Dec 1 2022 17:28 utc | 3

Much bloviating over a nasty flu variation of no danger to 99.5% of a population. 'Covid responses' are political/ideological tools and have zero health rationale.

Posted by: stan | Dec 1 2022 17:36 utc | 4

The biggest propaganda against America and American democracy, is the fact that the Chinese government actually listens to people's grievances and immediately takes action to address them.

People in the west protest and protest and protest and protest and protest only to have the media upbraid them, politicians pay lip service and ultimately nothing changes.

What was the outcome of the protests in Europe from Netherlands farmers to France anti-NATO to German & UK cost of living and in the North America, the Canadian Truckers to everything under the rainbow in the US?

Did anything lead to actual change?

The two bit dullards who constitute the average population will never be able to put two and two together and realize the that the "freedom" in the west is only an illusion.

And a civilization made of such two bit dullards will not continue to prosper for too long.

The NYTimes writers and their puppet masters telling them what to write will be crying through all of their orifices in their body when US becomes a banana republic in the Asian century in the year 2040.

Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Dec 1 2022 17:41 utc | 5

China has been infinitely more responsive and communicative for their protests than "free-speech" Canada. The trucker protests were controversial perhaps, but they were exercising their rights and it was insane that Turdeau had implemented the Emergency Measures Act which was basically martial law. Rather than even attempt to communicate with the protesters, everyone involved was basically considered a terrorist and censored.

Posted by: leaf | Dec 1 2022 17:49 utc | 6

What I find particularly humorous is the contradiction between Western narratives that China is a police state where protest is forbidden, and the Western advertisements of protests in China.

While these narratives make headlines in the West on a daily basis, very little is mentioned about Western labor struggles, such as the American Railroad Strike and how the "Democratic" American Congress is selling out American workers for the sake of more profits by the American oligarchs.

To me this is just cover to protect the US Congress from the looming American railroad strike.

What is the most hilarious is that given the few number of American Railroad workers, it would probably be cheaper to give these people an insurance contract to cover their sick days, paid by American taxpayers than it would be to suffer a railroad strike. However, given the stupidity of American Congress critters, who will gladly give away billions on War Contracts, this concept of bailing out a few critical personnel is unthinkable.

As William Buffet, one of the owners of the American railroads pointed out, "The class war in America is over and the working class has lost."

Posted by: Michael.j | Dec 1 2022 17:56 utc | 7

The Chinese COVID policies have been a success and will continue to be so. The only thing I am surprised about is that there seeems to be no emphasis on masking. We continue to see pictures of the authorities there spraying down surfaces with some kind of solution, while here most people (unfortunately not all) seem to realize that it is primarily transmitted through aerosols. Maybe this will be included in their new guidelines.

Posted by: c | Dec 1 2022 17:59 utc | 8

European politics is run by the Nine Eyes intelligence community and the Pentagon … just as RussiaGate was in fact IntelliGate …

Brussels HQ of NATO got a firm hold on career government employees running the EU-27 … forgetting the hard fought founding principle of creating an economic unity with all of Europe up to the Ural. Biden’s “Blitzkrieg” across Europe destroyed 75 years of progress and peace. I’m really pissed off … the 1984 script … Operation Mockingbird … stupid Dutch TV broadcasters and reporters … no sense of history or propaganda strategies of the Western alliance …gullible people.

Without any criticism, the military and spy agency get free time to spew their hate …

The Netherlands is increasingly confronted with threats to national security. That threat comes from other countries like Russia and China, but also in a variety of ways. A warning about this was issued Monday afternoon by the country’s three intelligence services, the General Intelligence and Security Service (AIVD), the Military Intelligence and Security Service (MIVD) and the National Coordinator for Counterterrorism and Security (NCTV).

Posted by: Oui | Dec 1 2022 18:03 utc | 9

The US should colorize only small countries, or better yet only its own states. Bring them back into the obedient fold. Rules-Based Home Rule will be hard enough, as I read the soured political mood of that fallen-down country.

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Dec 1 2022 18:05 utc | 10

3 years. 3 straight years of China not having millions dead. the lifespan is increasing in China.

3 straight years of listening to people lie and lie and lie about the virus, while their children get sicker and sicker.

for people in the US, here's a simple test, which will reveal your class perspective:

was there a moratorium on evictions?

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 1 2022 18:07 utc | 11

Since everything we hear about China is a lie, does anyone have a recommendation for a GOOD website on China?

Of course I like MoA but MoA is not dedicated to reporting on China.

I said it before but I say it again, our war against China is because they can resist U.S. pressure agaisnt countries such as Iran and Venezuela. It is about the U.S. maintaining global power, not an actual threat by China

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Dec 1 2022 18:14 utc | 12

When I first heard about this I thought color revolution. White pieces of paper or something this time.
One must give them and their media lackeys their due. They are a tenacious lot.
I also read about some lawfare breaking out in South Africa on ZH.
Just another BRIC in the wall. (I'm not a Roger Waters Pink Floyd fan, btw. I'm a Syd Barrett purist.)

Posted by: lex talionis | Dec 1 2022 18:30 utc | 13

speaking of "underdeveloped" medical systems, APsplains

The U.K.’s ambulance service is seizing up in some areas as the country’s health system faces an INFERNO of pressures, including rising demand for care after pandemic restrictions were eased; a surge in flu and other WINTER viruses after two lockdown years; and staff shortages from pandemic burnout and a post-Brexit DROUGHT of European workers in Britain. THOUSANDS of hospital beds are also occupied by people who are fit to be discharged but have nowhere to go because of a dearth of places for long-term care.

Official statistics show that ambulances in many areas are stuck waiting outside hospital emergency departments, sometimes for hours, because there are NO BEDS for the patients. Figures published Thursday by the National Health Service showed 31% of patients arriving at hospitals in England by ambulance waited at least 30 minutes to be handed over last week, and 15% waited more than an hour.
Stephen Powis, the NHS national medical director for England, said the state-funded health service “is facing a perfect storm, with WINTER VIRUS cases rapidly increasing alongside ongoing pressures in emergency care and hugely constrained bed capacity.” He said the NHS has set up a series of “WAR ROOMS" busy hospitals to reduce waiting times.

STRIKES are about to put even more pressure on the system. Ambulance staff in three separate unions have voted to stage strikes in December, part of A WAVE of action by workers in many sectors demanding pay raises to match record inflation. Nurses have also voted to go on strike for two days this month in areas covering about half of England.

“It’s CARNAGE at the moment — THE WORST I’ve ever seen it,” said George Dusher, a paramedic in northern England who voted to strike.

Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 1 2022 18:37 utc | 14

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 1 2022 18:07 utc | 11

Where have all the data visualization dashboards of rolling average positivities and mortality gone?!

Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 1 2022 18:42 utc | 15

"I am the same". Pericles didn't buckle before the plague in Athens, did he? and neither did Athens, did they? I wonder why they call that one speech a 'funeral' speech?

Jane Austen almost died at school from the diseases of her day (so i read somewhere randomly recently), why should kids today expect anything different? how can you write "Jane Eyre" w/o getting cholera yourself?

maybe those hundreds of millions of not dead and not sick kids in China are the real suckers. you know, the ones who've mostly been going to the movies, school, mall, holidays, and whatever capitalists think of as "normal", stuffing their faces, "growing the economy", upgrading their tech gear, keeping up a good protestant work ethic, trying to learn how to spell words like "spellchecker" so they can be more like Americans, etc.?

i know that students in China were not happy with how "online learning" was done. it was miserable. but the US did not even try.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 1 2022 18:47 utc | 16

From the recent Naked Capitalism thread on this topic


Just a few late comments to this:

1. The notion that this is a colour revolution can be dismissed out of hand. There is no way in hell the US or any other power has the intelligence or connections in China to carry out something like this. Its no secret that the Chinese have rolled up most CIA agents over the year and any ‘softer’ intelligence operatives are constantly monitored and the usual NGO suspects have minimal presence.

2. Protests are extremely common in China – anyone who has spent any time in the country will have seen some. They are usually quiet and dignified, but sometimes noisy and occasionally violent. But there are many unwritten rules about what you can protest about and not get your head tapped by a policeman (this of course isn’t unique to China). Every potential protestor in China knows what those rules are. The current protests go well beyond what is normally considered acceptable so, yes, they are a big deal, anyone pretending otherwise is a shill or knows nothing about China.

3. The inept handling of zero covid is clearly a major component of the protests, but in my very amateur China watching position from far away, it is not the core of the protests. Anyone who has been observing China for a long period will have seen something like this coming. There has been a build up in frustration on many quarters, but especially in young people about a narrowing in options in Chinese life.Since Xi has come to power there has been a closing in of cultural and political life. This has been paralleled with a steady reduction in economic options. Almost every Chinese person I’ve talked to in the last few years who wasn’t independently rich has talked bitterly about how they can’t get ahead because the levels of money and power have been gradually fixed into the hands of insiders. Even if you work hard, get a good degree, and get a good job offer, this can be snatched away from you if you or someone in your family doesn’t know (or can’t bribe) someone who will ensure that offer won’t somehow disappear. You could have a wonderful idea for a business, but good luck getting money from the bank if you are not one of the insiders. China is, in other words, turning into a very class and connection based society, and most Chinese are out of the loop and know it. As the economy curdles (and it is in significant trouble), this can only get worse.

3. The overwhelming majority of Chinese are either supportive of, or neutral on, the CCP. The minority who don’t like them usually know to keep their mouths shut. Even Party members are often ambiguous – two friends of mine (one a policeman) were party members but would tell me (when not in China) how much they disliked having had to join. But its rare to find many who really love the Party (there is usually a strong overlap between strong nationalism and pro-Party types, I find it hard sometimes to know whether they conflate China with the Party, or its just a parallel support). I’ve met quite a few people who passionately support and love the CCP. They have one thing in common. None of them are Chinese. In short, my belief is that support for the party is very broad, but very shallow. I think Beijing knows this, which is why it can be so paranoid sometimes.

4. As to where the current process will go, I won’t make predictions, but if I was forced to make a guess I’d say the protest will burn itself out in a few days. Its mostly generalised frustration briefly uniting students, workers and small business people, along with the upper middle classes who particularly loathed lockdowns. But they face the problem in that there is no obvious alternative to the Party. This isn’t like South Korea or Taiwan in the 1980’s when there was a structure in place that could replace an autocracy if it fell. This is more like the old Soviet Union and I think everyone knows it. Most Chinese will chose the devil they know.

5. It seems pretty clear that Zero Covid is falling apart. The usual response of Beijing to policy screw ups is to simply suppress the information and pretend it never happened. So expect to see more restrictions on information."

I am not so sanguine as b.. It seems to me that as sociopaths learn how to migrate into the "middle management" of a socialist country, they destroy the legitimacy of the State.

In the late Soviet Union, a defining feature was how the management layer and CP members became composed entirely of nihilistic opportunists, even though the older CP generation at the higher levels were true believers. The working classes felt completely alienated from this "middle layer" and the original ideals of the Party represented by the "Old Guard", so the whole structure collapsed.

Then, the sociopaths took over the highest layers of power as well, and destroyed the country. If this happens to China then all hope for the future is lost.

Posted by: moaobserver | Dec 1 2022 18:47 utc | 17

zero covid policy indicates the chins government still does not know much about sinoamerican virus (sars cov 2). this virus will always be present in china. what can only be done is to make it less infectious by chemical and electrical ways, but chins goverment is more interested with lockdown which provides conducive conditions for the proliferation of sinoamerican virus.

Posted by: Kim Jong Il | Dec 1 2022 18:47 utc | 18

Everyone who has worked for Apple / Foxconn mfg side of the house knows that they are a horrible employer. They are in China because they could not keep employees in the US or anywhere else.

If they go to India it will even be worse.

Posted by: ATM | Dec 1 2022 18:52 utc | 19

Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 1 2022 18:37 utc | 14

Have you thought about posting the telephone directory or menu listings from local takeaways ? There is so much bandwidth you could absorb with digital toilet paper.

Just dumping incoherent articles into a thread is risible. You don't even know how few hospital beds there are in write about "UK" but there is NO NHS UK - NHS Scotland is separate from NHS England............\

Population England 1997 when Blair took office = 48 million
Population England 2020 = 57 million

The huge expansion of population with an ageing demographic has not been funded........and 1987 NHS had 299,000 hospital beds - today it is < 141,000
Germany has 498,000

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Dec 1 2022 18:52 utc | 20

moaobserver | Dec 1 2022 18:47 utc | 17
meh. i know you are full of shit. how many times can you say, as evidence, the equivalent of "we all know" this or that is true?

covid restrictions conflict w/people's obeisance to Mammon. it's as simple as that. the state is at war with its populace, which is why they don't give a shit about grandma dying.

another thing about people in the US: do you know someone who works as (or uses) a Personal Care Attendant (PCA)?

if not, then you should really shut up about the coronavirus. you don't know what you are talking about.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 1 2022 18:58 utc | 21

I'm curious if one of the reasons why the President of Cuba met with Xi Xinping recently was to discuss a vaccine manufacturing deal. The two countries have worked recently on a "pan-corona" vaccine, which might see widespread use. 1.4 billion vaccines, though. That's a hefty order. It's obvious Cuba alone couldn't fill that order.

Cuba's vaccine regime has been very effective. Daily cases remain in the single digits. Daily deaths are regularly 0. People still mask, but covid restrictions are relatively lax.

Posted by: fnord | Dec 1 2022 19:08 utc | 22

@moaobserver | Dec 1 2022 18:47 utc | 17,

From the recent Naked Capitalism thread on this topic

... ...

With respect to China, I won't take much from NakedCapitalism, including the host, a primary moderator L. (apologize that I can't recall his full name), and its commentators. The overall attitude there seems anti-China to me. It is my impression that the host seems more favorable toward Japan. Not sure if that's related to that she worked for a big Japanese bank for some time. But for China, people there looks more biased rather than fact-based.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Dec 1 2022 19:36 utc | 23

Two people were before a global audience as they did two things: 1) let it rip through the populace and 2) take for themselves whatever medical, etc., measures were available.

these two people were Donald Trump and Boris Johnson. they lie every time they open their mouths. They availed themselves of what they thought was necessary for their own lives and then knowingly lied to the world and attempted by any means necessary to destroy any and all social efforts against the virus, thereby denying others treatment that saved their own lives. and they are doing the same, right now.

this is the ruling class of the west. nazi tapeworms. but hey, while trying to starve Iran, VZ, NK, etc., into submission, they both invented a famine (or its causes) and created a genocide and condemned it, with a wag of their little Banderite tongues.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 1 2022 19:43 utc | 24

You darned old Chinese propagandanator you.
It's probably all a part of some elaborate Chinese conspiracy.

Posted by: Josh | Dec 1 2022 19:45 utc | 25

It is my impression that the west keep misrepresenting China's Covid policy. It is NOT Zero Covid. The correct one is Dynamically Zero Covid. China does not say they want zero covid. What they are doing is to identify and isolate the covid-infected so it can minimize the chances of spreading.

There is Chinese commentary saying that China must do it right when the west, especially amerikkkans, criticizes what China is doing. On the contrary, China must be vigilant for what China does if the west is praising it.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Dec 1 2022 19:46 utc | 26

Thanks for writing on this subject, b. I agree with you; as soon as I started seeing the headlines on Muslim Brotherhood Media (aka Al Jazeera), my color revolution spidey sense started tingling.
Some here may already know my opinion on the unpleasantness of the past couple years, but I understand where the government in China is coming from; they were/are functioning under the assumtion that they were the victims of a bio-warfare attack (which is not entirely without the realm of possibility). Why else would both the Chinese and Russian foreign ministries continue to insist that the US give a clear, honest (lol) accounting of Pentagon funded activities at various bio-research facilities around the world (including inside China)?
I also find it a laughable example of incompetence that US authorities should now call for China to relax their restrictions, when those same authorities continue to push for universal actions that ultimately benefit their fascist/corpratist/whatever patrons in the pharmaceutical industry at the expense of "the mob."
Anyway, thanks again b and enjoy your pre-holiday baking.

Posted by: robjira | Dec 1 2022 19:47 utc | 27

I believe China is pondering at the crossroad of how to proceed in dealing with a pandemic that is exhibiting decreasing maliciousness, but also mutating prodigiously enough to defy effective control. It is kind of like the flu, but with the uncertainty of potential higher deadliness than the common flu for healthcare ministries to not ignore it as passively. Not enough is as yet known of the nature of this pandemic for the Chinese leadership to relax its measures in combatting this disease, although recent signs are pointing to China modifying its approaches in more liberal ways.

China's desire to limit spread and death was obvious from the get go, mostly because China was confident of its administrative capability to mobilize and implement the necessary steps that was thought to be effective to contain the viral spread. SARS, and SARS-2 gave Chinese leadership that historical confidence. But they did not anticipate the mutative capacity of this particular virus and ended up having to be vigilant to put out brushfires that sprang up over and over, up until now. It has been a tiring and frustrating war for both the decision-making leadership, the economic administrators, and the common people. It actually has been amazing how much trusts and patience the common people have demonstrated towards their leaders, and how closely the leadership itself has focused on this particular issue, as evidenced by how quickly the affected new areas mobilized and how thoroughly so.

But much is yet unknown about this pandemic: why the vaccines are much less effective than anticipated? Why has it been so difficult to identify an effective medication for the infected? What actually is the most effective preventive measures to implement? There are guesses to these questions but no definitive answers yet. In that respect, China up to now has taken the conservative approach in dealing with it. The draconian measures taken, so-called dynamic zero incident containment, is prompted by the unspoken suspesion on the part of China that this viral attack is actually a bio-war. They suspected that on SARS, and they are becoming more convinced of it as time passes. They just haven't pointed the finger yet. When more is known about this virus, and as more physical evidence emerge, I believe the culprits will be identified by name.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Dec 1 2022 19:48 utc | 28

Dunno why you think NC is anti-China.

If you want the opposite point of view I suggest subscribing to Godfree Roberts newsletter:

Posted by: moaobserver | Dec 1 2022 19:48 utc | 29

China is navigating its oblied decoupling from the failed Western financial system, with the consequent bankrupts like that of Evergrande, through these Zero-Covid policies.

The bankrupts and the total collapse of the fiat money system started time before the "Covid pandemic".

The very George Soros stated in an interview that "Covid pandemic" had been instrumental to increase control on the populations.

The duration of ZeroCovid policies in China, creating a shortage of supplies in what still is the factory of the world coincides in time with a crisis in demand in the West caused by the lose of purcahsing power due to inflation and plundering of taxpayers, and the same slots of time considered for the Western economies to overcome the Covid caused economic crisis which is not but a huge trasvase of capital from the working and middle classes to the bakrupted banking and financial system ( Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank, BlackRock...) governments, and elites above them.

In summary, an organized robbery of the taxpayers so that the financial elites, of which the Chinese have also a bunch, keep their tax of profit.

It was Schwab who recently put the "Chinese system" as example to follow now....No further questions, Your Honor....

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Dec 1 2022 19:49 utc | 30

Ron Unz over at the Unz Review has made a compelling case that Covid was a Pentagon Bioweapon.

Posted by: Exile | Dec 1 2022 19:53 utc | 31

The initial outbreak in New York City between February and June 2020 had a crude death rate of 9.2% and 32.1% among hospitalized patients. Assuming everyone who died from the disease did so in a hospital and not in the streets, it gives a hospitalization rate of 28.7%.

The fatality rate in the NYC outbreak is quite close to the initial fatality rates reported in China and Italy.

So either there was a strain an order of magnitude deadlier in the initial outbreak or there were 2 million uncounted cases (to match the official 1% fatality rate) in the NYC outbreak only a few weeks after the disease was identified. Note that the NYC population in 2019 was 8.3 million.

My previous posts on the subject have been consistently deleted so I'll just end it here.

Posted by: Sid Victor Cattoni | Dec 1 2022 19:53 utc | 32

@rjb1.5, #16:

Online learning has been proven ineffective because there hasn't been an effort in finding out what makes "learning" click. Body languages, voice tones, eye contacts, peer-to-peer interactions, even scolding and physical punishments all play parts in face-to-face learning. How can these stuff be transformed in online learning?

I think it'll be a while for us to learn enough about learning on the cybernet to be an effective platform for serious academic training.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Dec 1 2022 19:54 utc | 33

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Dec 1 2022 18:14 utc | 12
"Since everything we hear about China is a lie, does anyone have a recommendation for a GOOD website on China?"


Tune in to Jeff Brown's radio and online messages from China

Posted by: AntiSpin | Dec 1 2022 19:57 utc | 34

Much bloviating over a nasty flu variation of no danger to 99.5% of a population. 'Covid responses' are political/ideological tools and have zero health rationale.

Posted by: stan | Dec 1 2022 17:36 utc

Gee, no one took you up on this simple and fully correct assessment.

It bears mentioning that it is now recognized that said "virus" was manufactured in a lab, and probably NOT the one in Wuhan. Funny about all those US bio-weapon labs in Ukraine getting no notice in the MSM or much in the alternative media.

We now know the Jabs are at the core of the rising overall death rate in highly vaxed countries, even US insurance companies and embalmers noticed. My wife watched "Died Suddenly" and told me there was no point in me watching it, I have been saying exactly the same things for 3 years. I'm no longer the crazy old coot in the family, I am the guy who called the Plandemic (I wish I thought that label up) from Dec 2019.

There will be a new episode posted today at for those interested in knowing the real information. Actually, it may still be streaming live, but go back to the beginning to see it all.

"There are none so hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Gothe

Posted by: Old canadian | Dec 1 2022 20:07 utc | 35

In addition, China likely KNOWS where covid originated, and sees it as the bio-weapon it is. But Xi really needs to lose the lockdown/mask idiocy.

Posted by: Old canadian | Dec 1 2022 20:11 utc | 36

It was obvious that the west tempted to piggy back onto the fire deaths - it was so obvious.

Posted by: Kaiama | Dec 1 2022 20:11 utc | 37

other english news websites on China?

eg China to further upgrade its virus control policy

China's factory activity contracted at a steeper pace in November amid renewed domestic COVID-19 cases and slackening domestic and external demand, adding pressure to the country's slow and bumpy economic recovery, experts said.

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 1 2022 20:11 utc | 38

"Banana Peels for Xi Jinping" from guess who? None other than from the "banana people"(香蕉人). Doesn't anyone actually do any research before posting propaganda?

Posted by: One Too Many | Dec 1 2022 20:17 utc | 39

According to Koch's postulates, the gold standard among virologists, the so called Covid virus has never been isolated. That is to say, it has never been proven to exist.

I think that the USA is the most destructive and degenerate country in the history of the world. No one is more anti american than me. And yet it is obvious to me that China is totalitarian. In fact, it is a hideous cult......The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

The biggest question question is this: Are China and Russia part of the Great Reset? They both propagate the Covid hoax which (through poisonous "vaccines") has killed millions of people.

Check out Dr. Stephan Lanka if you want to know the truth about Covid.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Dec 1 2022 20:22 utc | 40

Being an "old China hand" i have observed over lon how both foreign spies or influencers and Chinese Quislings do wokr: The main point being alwais "damn you of yo do and damn you if you don't" (Reference: "The Five Master Suppression Tequniques" by Norwegian parliamentarian & feminist Beri Ås/Aas -- also available in Chinese, Korean and in Japanese upon demand)
Teir foremost styk´le of operation around 1984/85 was to gather roommates of US, British and Canadian rChinese roommates to the British and US en´mbasssies in Bêijing -- bot not their Bris´tish or American co-eds. And (probably) alluring those top-notch Chinese students with promises of an even brighter future from top-notch US and Brittannic universities, i guess. The results showed themselves at Tiananmén square (no massacre at all) in June 1989. Now, history repeats itself in China not as tragedy, but as an assenite comedy by those top-notched students at top-notch colledges that are so easily foolled once more over.

Posted by: Tollef Ås/秋涛乐/טלפ וש | Dec 1 2022 20:27 utc | 41


Over at, Del Bigtree lead off with the clip of Trudy at the Trucker inquiry denying he ever called the protesters and their supporters "racist, misogynist, terrorists, not to be tolerated"

Funny thing, there are these things called VIDEO CAMERAS... so Del showed Trudy lying, and look closely, Trudy has to suppress actually broadly smiling (or laughing?) while the Inquiry lawyer asks him if he did that. The same smirk that Bill Gates had when encouraging people to get the jab.

Really people get over to the highwire and get FACTSINATED.

Posted by: Old canadian | Dec 1 2022 20:28 utc | 42

"For a huge country like China the total number of protests was laughable small": - b

Hmmm. Is it possible that b could be wrong? I seem to recall that a poster claimed just
the other day that the protests were the biggest since the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989.

I wonder if Scorpion knows anything about that.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Dec 1 2022 20:30 utc | 43

The BBC is terrible with this - same treatment for Iran. They are always running some extremely negative pieces, playing up any protests and carrying on about 'human rights' issues

Posted by: the pessimist | Dec 1 2022 20:34 utc | 44

b writes: "While the zero-covid policies are sometimes harsh, they are also necessary."

What a load of shit, b.

If Col. Lang has a blind spot wrt Ukraine, you sure as hell have a huge one in the form of your covidiocy.

That being said, China can do whatever the hell it wants, but you can be damn sure that this was the only time our elites in the west will be able to play the scamdemic card. They effectively blew their wad. Actually, I would really like to see them try.

Another poster was heaped upon with scorn recently for pointing out an obvious difference between the west and east and bowing to authoritarian leadership.

The west defaults to being wary of government overreach, and the east prizes the self-sacrafice of order and tradition above all.

That China can pull this shit on their people speaks very loudly this case that they are not interested in western philosophy and ideas.

So be it.

But you make no friends here by saying that we are just like them and that that kind of authoritarianism is sometimes necessary.

It's time to wake up, b. You are quite late for school.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Dec 1 2022 20:39 utc | 45

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Dec 1 2022 18:52 utc | 20

You question the Associate Press authori-tay? heavens to betsy. landssakes. oh my. I pity the striking workers who survived the herd-immunity experiment.

Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 1 2022 20:44 utc | 46

I focus on trends, not opinions. Here's the trend:

USSR, East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia, Albania, China, Vietnam, N Korea, Cuba, Cambodia, Laos, plus a half dozen minor nations in African and elsewhere.

China, Vietnam, N Korea, Cuba, Laos.

Communism with Chinese characteristics won't save them, on the contrary it will be their undoing, the key element being the loss of face that accompanies failed policy.

Combined with declining export markets (western depression) and a massive financial bubble, the economic consequences of inflexible CCP policy will bring about their ultimate demise. Sure, Western interference will play a role, but so will Russian assistance to ease the transition to a democracy (of sorts) along current Russian lines.

That's my prediction, and for those who wish to challenge it, please remind us how many forecasters predicted the end of the USSR, not to mention the dozen or more communist states that no longer exist.

Posted by: ebear | Dec 1 2022 20:47 utc | 47

China successfully applies Plea Deals - the same method as USA in 'encouraging' aka 'bribing' people facing criminal trials to plead guilty only to turn into witnesses for the State to testify against their 'friend / coworker' facing a life-sentence if found guilty. Both countries also maintain the death penalty.

Six Ex-Apple Daily senior executives plead guilty in Hong Kong
- The sentencing of the six was adjourned until after the completion of Lai's case.
- The sedition charges faced by all six were dropped in exchange for their guilty pleas.

Irrespective of that, the NYTs and CNN remain extremely toxic. Goes around, comes around.

btw there are no protests in China or at the Foxconn factory

- search @

Well, nobody is perfect.

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 1 2022 20:53 utc | 48

@17 moaobserver

Thanks for the broad and authoritative comment.

Perhaos there are similarities in the phenomenon of decoupling in both the States and China.

To wit, as the rate of decoupling increases, you will have less white collar jobs in the states to administer the import of products from China.

The U.zs. is already awash in white collar bullshit jobs and our economy has been stripped-mined into a leaning tower that is about to fall over.

There will be some catharsis in seeing Rupert and Buffy, the beloved children of some trust fund ex-hippies now employed in big tech, realize that there is no more funny money to go around, or that it is worthless, and you can't do Mock-U.N. at Columbia for a job.

In China, the pull-back from relations with the U.S. will similarily mean the addiction to American-culture will have to be navigated by dropping it cold turkey. This is the most important thing to realize about Globo-Homo: It is a mutually-infectious arrangement. You can not dance with the Devil in the U.S. and not come away without its musk upon your clothing or without the sting of its sulfur breath in your nostrils.

This Americanism is in a way the most deadly drug for traditional, ancient cultures, and my sincere appreciation goes out ti Xi for identifying it and wanting to protect China's people.

But I too want what's best for my country and that means returning to a culturally-conservative, manufacuring and aggrarian-based isolationist country.

I pray for this result day-in and day-out.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Dec 1 2022 20:57 utc | 49

"A free running epidemic would cost several million lives and would leave tens of millions hampered with long-Covid conditions.

That is unsatisfying for the young who are unlikely to die of Covid-19 but have to live with the zero-Covid restrictions. But China is a Confucian society. People in China are traditionally valuing their elderly. China's constitution makes care for the elderly in ones family an obligation for every Chinese citizen..."

The first sentence explains concisely why it Western government, businessmen and economists are unbelievably ruthless by not engaging in zero-Covid.

But the segue to how zero-Covid restrictions are "unsatisfying" for the young is deceptive. Zero-Covid is unprofitable for the capitalist roaders. The fury is over losing money. Most Chinese people are not losing large profits due to Covid restrictions that hamper production. Every indication is that it is not the young but the well-off and their offspring who are demonstrating.

Additionally, the OP is disingenuous on the significance of openly anti-Party slant to the protests, as well as their deliberate orientation to the Western powers. The OP wants to pretend that freelancing color revolution operatives are trying to free-ride on youth-led protests but it's more like domestic forces, aka capitalist roaders, signaling their foreign friends. There was a supposedly popular demonstration on the occasion of Ching Min, purportedly inspired by reverence for the recently-deceased Zhou En-lai's struggle against the left in the Cultural Revolution, which played a role in preparing for the coup after Mao's death. (And soon after the rise of the Vietnamese killer Deng.) It's hard to tell, but this smells more like a covert salvo in capitalist counter-revolution. The people who love China because they imagine it shows how a suitably conservative ("Confucian") well-managed capitalist economy can do "reasonably well..." These anti-Party element to the protests is still tiny in comparison to the population. But I think their true significance is in the support of the wealthy, the nearly-wealthy and the desperately subservient wannabe wealthy. Proportionately they are a small grouping, true, but China is enormous.

The funny thing is how the next sentence explains it all away by claiming that the Chinese (who apparently are made of different flesh than "us") and uncontaminated by decadent wokism or something, are glad to sacrifice for their elders. This sort of thing seems to be very savory for most around here.

As I commented before, I think the real resentments re Covid restrictions have much more to do with lack of support, such as payments for wages or rent relief. Most of the mainstream bleeding is for small business failures. Things like the increasing number of municipalities charging for Covid tests are I think symptomatic of the real resentment for most ordinary people.

The OP's conclusion that China is not a dictatorship is more an affirmation of faith in Chinese capitalism with Confucian characteristics. Yes it is true that Covid restriction have not been dictatorship. That's why, lifting the Covid restrictions is a sacrifice of the welfare of the majority to the monetary wants of the few, which is a working definition of dictatorship. That's the conclusion to make, or to justify concluding otherwise. The only effort in that regard, the notion that Omicron variant is moderating and the problem is thereby solved ti breathtakingly premature. The long term effects of Covid we already know can be extensive and damaging. That's called long Covid. What we don't know is whether the endemic re-infection by multiple new strains of Covid will be harmless. The earliest indications are, not so, that getting the yearly variant of Covid is *not* like getting the yearly flu.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Dec 1 2022 21:01 utc | 50

Seems like good news on the way.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Dec 1 2022 21:12 utc | 51

@ ebear | 47 is it really like that?

Here's the trend:

That isn't a trend - it was a seismic one-off event.

that accompanies failed policy.

World is full to the brim of nations and political parties who fracture over failed policies and really bad laws, or corruption and rank incompetence. China is not unique. They are as human as the rest of us.

inflexible CCP policy

The ability and nature of the Chinese CP to continually review, then adjust, to change or completely reverse govt policy seems to me to far exceed that of any other national govt today, or in the recent past. None come mind at least.

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 1 2022 21:13 utc | 52

The MSM are obviously partisan, in the so-called civilized world anti-covid protesters are conspiracy theorists in China they are freedom fighters.

Posted by: Tomorrows Old Hat | Dec 1 2022 21:14 utc | 53

I see B's inner leftist is showing here. While his coverage of Ukraine is generally sober, this reads like an Escobar puff-piece. First, the People's Republic of China (or, as I like to call it, West Taiwan) is not a Confucian country, it is a communist country. Communists, for the record, do not give a fraction of an ounce of a shit about human life, and will gladly sacrifice as many people as it takes to pursue their delusional goal of utopia.

Second, the current variants of COVID are so weak now they barely amount to a common cold. There is literally no longer any rationale (not that there ever was to begin with) for national lockdowns and other COVID restrictions. It really does make more sense to just open up and let COVID spread until herd immunity is achieved. But, as I said, West Taiwan is a communist country, and communists are incompetent as well as malevolent.

Posted by: Monos | Dec 1 2022 21:19 utc | 54

there is nothing to be said to people who don't care what is happening to others who are weaker, sicker, older, younger, or in any other way poorer than themselves. "for what is weak, they have no use." Sophia 2. might as well try to talk to people who believe in "Khazars". can't argue w/non-existence, incl non-intelligence.

suffering is the only answer. "knowledge is self-inflating," to quote some jew or other. that's why the moth and rust will destroy them.

now back to war! something manly men understand. tell me more about missiles, less about sick kids asphyxiating. cuz i'm smart and i care about things. on the internet!

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 1 2022 21:52 utc | 55

In Australia the usual "yellow peril" media have been running the same anti-China stories as if was undergoing a "Tianamen Square" style protest. (Even that was exacerbated by the venal western media with much omission when it took place in 1989).

I have been wondering who is behind these recent lockdown protest but it looks, smells, and sounds like another US sponsored and driven load of crap. The story seems to always be that the poor mainland Chinese are just waiting to be liberated and are terribly supressed. Maybe the US administration should read its own country's Havard University reports that demonstrate that mainland Chinese citizens strongly support Xi Jinping and the CPC. Once again the US cannot support any other country that doesn't reflect its own sham of a 'democracy' and sham of 'freedom'. While they claim China wants to force communism on the world, their own agenda is to inflict their filthy and corrupt 'democracy' on anyone else they see fit for regime change. Bullying the world is what the US does best, same in my own country.

This media beat up is laughable in Australia because Australia at the height of the epidemic had huge protests particularly in Sydney where the anti-vax people where aggressed by police on horseback, beaten, injured, arrested, and fined, while helicopters and police squads patrolled certain Sydney areas for weeks on end when lockdowns were taking place.

The Western media all sings the tune of the US neocons now and its regime change everywhere they choose.

I wonder if the US administrations are ever going to change without being clobbered on their head by another country with a war taking place on US soil. Remember the famous "I can't breath". Well there are many countries in the world that currently can't breath because the US is choking them someway or another so they can be exploited.

Posted by: George | Dec 1 2022 21:53 utc | 56

FLASHBACK: Remember when the G7 "medical system" was short of ventilators? What a cage match.

Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 1 2022 22:19 utc | 57

What I don't understand is why China is seemingly not implementing Ivermectin and/or Chinese Traditional Medicine approaches which would further undermine the mRNA Western vector.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 1 2022 17:24 utc | 1

To my knowledge they use TCM in tandem in all hospitals and many kinds of holistic medicine and treatments are used in combination for Covid . The vaccines are a preventative. If Ivermectin or similar is not being used by China I'd say its because it doesn't work well enough across the population. Also with that particular drug there may be issues of supply given that it originated in Japan and is made in the West, the politics would not be good for reliability.

Posted by: K | Dec 1 2022 22:25 utc | 58

@George, #56:

I wish there are many, many more people like you in the western world. As you sensed, western governments are ALL rotten to the bones. Western moral norm and their mouthpieces' antics have degraded to the abyss.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Dec 1 2022 22:26 utc | 59

The US wrongfully expected that economic progress would result in a new China social scene and make them (Chinese) exactly like us. That didn't happen, and won't happen. The rules-base international order™ which is obeisance to Washington won't happen.

So that means that any China social problems can be played in the US media as due to the fact that Chinese aren't like westerners, yet, and so that's why everything they do is wrong, That's only in the media. The average person anywhere in the world doesn't give much of a damn about social problems in foreign countries. Nor should they.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 1 2022 22:41 utc | 60

until an almost fatal med crisis put me out of the game, I spent the 1st two years of the coronavirus doing two things:

teaching ESL to students in China and
working with homeless people in the US.

the US did not suddenly start to care about public health during the coronavirus. we, our society not just our gov't, do everything we can to do as little possible about anything that interrupts The Machine. people who benefit from the system cannot see it. They are blind. you cannot explain to them something this simple:

your society does not give the tiniest shit about vets. and we sure as hell aren't going to interrupt anything because of some stupid ol' virus that "only kills olds and retards".

don't even get me started on how these "civil society orgs" (=churches) make themselves into martyr-heroes because they hand out sandwiches to people sleeping in the woods. they are not against anything, not a single thing, about how this society works, which is why they are on the city payroll. and how much the malicious, murderous neglect of US society depends mightily on these religious shit bags who reach into the gigantic trash pile of ever-growing human misery and pull out happy, smiling images of themselves and how much they are "helping."

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 1 2022 22:43 utc | 61

Chinese love to gamble. They are doubling down over and over.
Why? Because the infallible papacy at the top does not want to lose face: bureaucratic inertia does the rest.

Initially they reacted to what they assumed was a bioweapon, with good reason.

If we did this PCR zero-whatever policy with any other common pathogen, the result would be insane and destructive: it just cannot get there.

Posted by: Webej | Dec 1 2022 22:51 utc | 62

"While the zero-Covid measures at times seem harsh they are also a necessity. "

That is a ridiculously pro-authoritarian/anti-human rights statement that is not supported by any science or commoon sense.

Posted by: seedeevee | Dec 1 2022 23:01 utc | 63

China is likely waiting for the development of a "pan-coronavirus" vaccine and oral vaccines which are easier to administer and prevent transmission more effectively than needle vaccines. Unfortunately the West, particularly the US, is not prosecuting such development to the necessary degree. One must assume the Chinese are doing their own work, however.

Follow Eric Topol's Substack, "Ground Truths", for almost daily information on the pandemic:

As Topol said in his most recent pandemic post:

With the caveats above, there’s a good look for at least a couple of months. Beyond that, however, there’s potential for more difficult times. That’s why it’s still essential to develop ways to achieve mucosal immunity to block infections and spread (which the Omicron variants have largely overridden vaccine/booster protection) and take advantage of all the work that led to numerous pan-sarbecovirus and pan-beta-coronavirus neutralizing antibodies that are templates for variant-proof vaccines. It is preposterous that a small investment in these efforts has been thwarted by Congress (specifically Republicans). This is the epitome of complacency, or even stupidity, since this virus isn’t going to just go away. Unfortunately, it can and will likely continue to haunt us for years to come.

Meanwhile, it sure looks like a good stretch ahead for the holiday season. And, of course, there are things you can do to maximize protection (like a bivalent booster and high quality masks).

I've been meaning to get the bivalent booster, but haven't managed to get around to it. It's just a matter of online scheduling at Walgreen's drugstore. I've had the two original shots and the previous booster from them. I continue to mask up when outside my building, wash hands frequently and wipe down outside packages with hydrogen peroxide. Having gone through two and a half years of the pandemic, this is just routine now. I will continue this until either the new case rate drops into the single digit thousands of cases or an oral vaccine is developed.

Current daily average figures from NYT:

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Dec 1 2022 23:10 utc | 64

@ Oriental Voice | Dec 1 2022 22:26 utc | 59

Thanks for your reply

All it takes is to learn some Chinese history and Culture. In my case I've been learning some Mandarin Chinese as well. We could learn so much from China but Western arrogance always judges through Western eyes out of ignorance. This is why I do not fear China and understand that it has been the target of vilification and racism for many years. It's economy grew (through hard work), and the technology advanced and that is the only reason why the US seeks to destroy the country. US has to be number one. It's interesting that the two biggest critics of China and spreaders of racism (US and UK) are also the countries that exploited China through unfair Opium trade in the past. The UK sucked China's wealth significantly, and stole Hong Kong and the US built their early railways out of opium trade money and very cheap Chinese labour. Both Roosevelt Presidents inherited wealth from Warren Delano who made his fortune from Opium.

China is badly misunderstood and should have its own right to evolve in whatever political form it wants.

Posted by: George | Dec 1 2022 23:14 utc | 65

"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

Spoken by Herman Goering in his last interview shortly before his scheduled death by hanging.

The purpose of the Empires propaganda at this time is explained above.

Any of you who believe any of it are being played.

But alas it is not no avail. As evidenced by the comments here there is little chance that the path to total war can be avoided.

This post is relevant to all humans no matter which Empire you live in.

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 1 2022 23:14 utc | 66

sln2002 | Dec 1 2022 18:42 utc | 15
obviously i'm part of the jewish-masonic soros-nwo-wef crowd for wondering, why hasn't bill gates taking over Africa's healthcare resulted in better knowledge of the continent's health, if not better care? how can the Constant Gardener track the various experiments the west is conducting on blacks w/o some metrics and statistics??? where will they know to infect next with their "bioweapons" if they are not keeping tabs on the jabs?

safer to assume the virus is practically non-existent in Africa than to assume the imperialist powers don't give a shit. ditto native tribes throughout the world. who cares what the virus does to some idiots in the jungles of S America? the genetic heritage and diversity of humanity isn't being obliterated by the West's covid policies? nah. that's too apocalyptic!

speaking of which, for a nation born and inbred on end time tales from Revelation of bowls and vials and plagues and terrors and the hungry cows and 4 horses and locusts, the much-deserved wrath coming upon a nation of BDS supporting homosexuals, this nation of diabetic keyboard Crusaders sure managed to say, "coronavirus doesn't count as part of the end" in about 2 seconds flat. that's fun to see in family members, up close, as well as nationally.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 1 2022 23:15 utc | 67

Posted by: Exile | Dec 1 2022 19:53 utc | 31

Yes, a US bioweapon created at Fort Detrick with the help of University of North Carolina and a couple other East Coast colleges.

The evidence points to an accidental release of Covid into the USA following an extreme flooding event in Maryland that knocked out the steam-powered autoclaves which are used for decontamination. This is well-documented and Fort Detrick was shut down for awhile due to a half-dozen decontamination protocol violations.

Covid was introduced into Wuhan by American Military Personal during the Military Olympics. Whether this was also accidental or not is hard to say.

Posted by: Haassaan | Dec 1 2022 23:21 utc | 68

According to China's National Health Commission, in China over the past six days there were 22,678 new domestically generated Covid cases and one (1) Covid death. That is a very low mortality rate.

Posted by: William Verick | Dec 1 2022 23:28 utc | 69

Richard Steven Hack | Dec 1 2022 23:10 utc | 64
i'm totally with you.

except the bivalent booster. i don't think i will be getting any more shots until the rest of society starts to take the virus seriously, even if i might receive some benefit from it.

i'm not 100% sure, but aren't we helping the virus evolve and escape measures against it, maybe like with bacterial pathogens and antibiotic overuse (this is an analogy, maybe unfair; i'm not a medical expert)? with the "vaccine-only" approach? on the other hand, because there is so much intentional confusion manufactured in our society, people are getting boosted less, so maybe it's still worthwhile?

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 1 2022 23:29 utc | 70

"Yes, the West is projecting all its faults on China and those projections will not stick.


What I don't understand is why China is seemingly"—Posted by: psychohistorian [😁] Dec 1 2022 17:24 utc | 1

🤣` ... `Like the Steam off Freshly Laid Turd'—SeanAU

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 1 2022 23:29 utc | 71

Bioweapons are like chemical weapons: There's real question whether they will ever be used on a mass scale because their effects are too unpredictable, uncontrollable, and underwhelming. A gun that shot bullets that could reverse course and wound or kill the shooter is a bad weapon. The historical examples of attempts to spread small pox against native Americans by European-descent settlers, who already had a well-established superior immunity, is decidedly in there's no reason to think it matters. It is of course an incontestable fact that disease killed far more people than settlers did. If not for the mortality and social destruction of disease it is very possible the settlers could have been driven into the sea. There were times when it was close. But despite the modern fetish for talking as if disease from the sixteenth century on was deliberate biological warfare, it wasn't. That really is trendy nonsense. No one should confuse being woke with a sound understanding of the role of disease in warfare.

A desirable biological weapon would have a well-defined incubation period and even better a well-defined set of symptoms with a fairly uniform strong effect taking place in a predictable time frame. The more variable the effects, the more organs attacked at near random, the more variation in effectiveness, the less suitable. The reason for the criteria is so that military planning can estimate ahead of time the likely effective casualties in the targets. They can plan offensives to coincide with And of course, the most desirable targets are young men. Most of all, there would be a vaccine against the weapon to prevent your own forces being damaged. Long term effects would not be desirable because the occupying power wouldn't want the headache of a sick population, not even to shovel the bodies into incinerators.

Simple inspection shows there's not the slightest reason to think Covid-19 is a bioweapon. Except of course Trump the God said so.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Dec 1 2022 23:39 utc | 72

SeanAU | Dec 1 2022 21:13 utc | 52

Curious abbreviation for the Communist Party of China

Is it the UAS ? Or perhaps the AUS? It can't possibly be USA !

Anyway Naes have a good one .

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 1 2022 23:45 utc | 73

USA = 1,105,849 Covid-19 Deaths; 1,425,184 Active cases - Population = 331.9 million

China = 5,233 Covid-19 Deaths; 37,347 Active Cases - Population = 1.412 billion

Yep, China sure is bad.

Trump's appalling response to Covid-19 goes un-noticed even though the amount of deaths due to the pandemic in the US is more than all Americans who died in all the 20th and 21st Centuries wars added together plus a good part of those who died in the US Civil War as well if not all.

Is there no logic left in this world?

Is it just a matter of type-casting some good and some evil irrespective of the evidence?

Posted by: George | Dec 1 2022 23:50 utc | 74

Is there no logic left in this world?
George | Dec 1 2022 23:50 utc | 74

No. None.

This is where some pip squeak inserts themselves to say:
George, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics you know!!!

Posted by: SeanAU | Dec 2 2022 0:10 utc | 75

" The biggest question question is this: Are China and Russia part of the Great Reset? They both propagate the Covid hoax which (through poisonous "vaccines") has killed millions of people.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Dec 1 2022 20:22 utc | 40 "

What does logic and your own eyes tell you ?

- Schwab praises Arch Communist China
As The Ultimate Role Model For The Future -

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 2 2022 0:13 utc | 76

" "While the zero-Covid measures at times seem harsh they are also a necessity. "

That is a ridiculously pro-authoritarian/anti-human rights statement that is not supported by any science or commoon sense.

Posted by: seedeevee | Dec 1 2022 23:01 utc | 63 "

Dont waste time arguing with most folks here as in their twisted world view Russia, and especially China, can do no wrong, never have done anything wrong, and never will do anything wrong. Of course they continue to live in the nations they constantly criticize, the US, EU, Britain, etc .., and would never consider moving to Russia or China. Funny how that works.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 2 2022 0:22 utc | 77

"..China is likely waiting for the development of a "pan-coronavirus" vaccine and oral vaccines which are easier to administer and prevent transmission more effectively than needle vaccines. Unfortunately the West, particularly the US, is not prosecuting such development to the necessary degree. One must assume the Chinese are doing their own work, however...."
Richard Steven Hack@64

I believe that China and Cuba are working together on this problem. They have both been subjected to imperialist attempts to create epidemic diseases in order to weaken their governments. In the case of China the US employed the Japanese Unit 771 which had introduced bio-warfare in Manchuria. The truth of China's complaints to international opinion have been well documented. The same is true of US/UN use of bioweapons in its assault on north Korea.
China has always been ready to deal with US biological warfare and its response to Covid reflects the preparations that it has long held in readiness.

One of the reasons why reactionaries and imperialist agencies deny the dangers posed by pandemics is that, as the discoveries in Ukraine confirm, they reserve the right to use biological and chemical weapons to defend their profit system. They find the idea of populations defending themselves by adopting simple common sense quarantine protocols, alarming. It is one of the cardinal principles of those who hate communism that people should not act on their own initiative but should wait to be told what to do by the class which exploits them.

This may seem paradoxical to those who see the arguments of the Covid deniers as arguments for personal freedom. But the underlying reality is that the community is defined by its ability to insist on measures being taken to defend its weakest and most vulnerable members.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 2 2022 0:25 utc | 78

Yes b, the worldwide rambling about the great upheaval in China is clearly nothing more than the usual color-revolution-made-by-pentagon-nitwits. And the entire EU is going along with it, without even trying to switch on its brain ... ok, that's not available. What I don't understand is why you take the rona tale serious. It was very clear from the beginning that it is fake as fake can get. I still don't know whether the chinese really fear the chimera they built (with the help of the demonrats of the empire), or just act like they do to drive the final nail in the western coffin. Anyway, they did a great job with that little nail. But please, let us not go on worshipping the tales of the wise guys who want to inflate a tiny new virus into a huge threat when it is nothing but another flu ("China can therefore not open up and let the pandemic run its course"). Read the serious papers! Rona's just another flu, for God's sake.

Posted by: tommiejode | Dec 2 2022 0:29 utc | 79

Deplorable Commissar 76, Logic and my own eyes tell me that the Global Bankster Cult controls EVERY country.

If that is the case, then it would explain why Russia has not destroyed Ukraine decision making centers, military command centers or railroads. And why TITANIUM is still being transported from Russia to Ukrainian oligarch owned companies indside Ukraine.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Dec 2 2022 0:31 utc | 80

@27 robjira
"where the government in China is coming from; they were/are functioning under the assumtion that they were the victims of a bio-warfare attack (which is not entirely without the realm of possibility)."


@28 Oriental Voice
The draconian measures taken, so-called dynamic zero incident containment, is prompted by the unspoken suspesion on the part of China that this viral attack is actually a bio-war.

Yes. Why wouldn't they feel this way, with all the US biodefense labs around the world, with of course some knowledge of the operation of the one in Wuhan?
I was near Chengdu during the initial breakout. Many years of teaching spoken English in different cities all over China. Chinese people are by and large cooperative, reasonable. Masks are a no-brainer for any cold, or even a teenager's embarrassing pimple. The initial quarantine was manage by neighborhood government representatives, requiring a mask and temp check to leave the area. We were allowed out on our own street in our neighborhood. Schools closed, of course, and most businesses. The local news gave a full report daily of local, provincial and national COVID stats.
What I liked best was that they opened separate hospitals for covid patients. Thus the general public and the hospital's workers and central ventilation was separated from regular hospital workers and patients.
They required foreigners to leave as soon as they felt the virus was under control. Americans have not been allowed back yet. But my Russian teacher friend has been able to return.

Posted by: HelenB | Dec 2 2022 0:32 utc | 81

Christian Chuba @ 12:

You can try following 21SilkRoad on VK. It used to be on Facebook until it was banned twice. Rebecca Chan and Thomas Hon Wing Polin run that site and also have their own personal pages on VK.

Another one to follow is the journalist Carl Zha on Twitter and his own Youtube channel. He has a Silk and Steel podcast on Patreon.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 2 2022 0:36 utc | 82

Deplorable Commissar | Dec 2 2022 0:13 utc | 76
they've gone from merely communist to arch communist. how recherche.

i know you live in a world where the worst insult is to be called "commie", but isn't the scientific question whether something works, not whether it rubs your family Birch tree the wrong way?

oh yeah, "and if you don't like western freedom, get the hell out!" deep. but china is tyrannical? cute.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 2 2022 0:40 utc | 83

Webej | Dec 1 2022 22:51 utc | 62
Chinese love to gamble. They are doubling down over and over.

You're not alone in dissing Chinese people, it's a long term deal, including the US Chinese Exclusion Act years ago.
In this instance, it matters not that Americans and other western people love to gamble.

How did you get to be a qualified observer of Chinese gambling relative to other peoples, Webej?

And to quote George at 65: "Western arrogance always judges through Western eyes out of ignorance."

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 2 2022 0:41 utc | 84

bevin | Dec 2 2022 0:25 utc | 78
"the community is defined by its ability to insist on measures being taken to defend its weakest and most vulnerable members."

uh, there is no society. there's only the selfish gene.

anyway, the sick patient needs rest. lots and lots. but the patient is too sick to recognize that. so the patient will die.

and will die applauding itself, for not adopting no bs commie public health measures. they don't see indifference to sickness as itself the most serious disease of all.

"healthy people do not avoid sick people because they are healthy but because they suspect that they are also sick." - Soren K (not that i would follow his medical advice...just the simple point that avoiding sickness and its reality is the exact opposite of what a healthy person or society does.)

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 2 2022 0:50 utc | 85

btw, just like with Ukraine, the Nazi death state calling itself the USG employs armies of people to disinform the world, esp its own populace, about the severity of the coronavirus.

not that for smart people like Deplorable Commissar it takes very much. just slap "commie" on it and see draped a big "mission accomplished" banner over this person's opinions.

as bevin said, the absolute last thing these bastards want is a community acting out *communal interests.* but don't tell some capitalist know it all cornpone bircher american that.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 2 2022 0:57 utc | 86

82% of Chinese support Dynamic Covid Zero because it's extremely cost-effective (always a winning argument there):

1. Dynamic Covid Zero has proven 400% more profitable for Chinese than Let 'er Rip. (Their GDP has grown four times more than ours)

2. Dynamic Covid Zero has saved 800% more Chinese lives than Let 'er Rip. (Our 1.1 million dead vs. their 7,000)

3. Dynamic Covid Zero provides a 600% QOL improvement over Let 'er Rip. They have no real worries since only 7% of them have had quarantine experience and all testing and treatment is free.

A few hundred kids whose mating time is running down will have no impact on Dynamic Covid Zero

Long Covid is a $3.7 trillion drag on the U.S. economy, 17% of pre-pandemic economic output, said Harvard economist David Cutler, the cost rivals of the Great Recession.

Posted by: Godfree Roberts | Dec 2 2022 1:08 utc | 87

Haassaan | Dec 1 2022 23:21 utc | 68

You speak the truth.

Does the Chinese policy to the pandemic make sense to the barfies now ?

The Empire knows that China knows.

China sees its covid record as a win. What the Empire thinks is irrelevant to the Chinese.

Nothing here to indicate a crossroad in the probability lines.

The war drums continue

Posted by: Klaatu | Dec 2 2022 1:08 utc | 88

With respect to China, I won't take much from NakedCapitalism, including the host, a primary moderator L. (apologize that I can't recall his full name), and its commentators. The overall attitude there seems anti-China to me.
Posted by: LuRenJia | Dec 1 2022 19:36 utc | 23

1. NakedCapitalism's host regularly drops lazy talking points about China being an oppressive dictatorship, even when -- and this is most telling -- issues of political culture have nothing to do with the topic at hand, or with any evidence in the article. in this respect, it is no different from the NYT, where you cannot acknowledge anything positive about China without first hating on it in advance, and in conclusion.

2. while all Chinese will agree that Xi's governing style is more rigid and controlling compared to Jiang Zemin, we also know that in Jiang's time, China had just joined the WTO and China was still in the US' good graces, whereas in Xi's time, the US is dead-set on destroying China on all fronts. many Chinese might not prefer Xi in a vacuum, but no one lives in a vacuum except maybe commenters at NakedCapitalism. besides, when it comes to the US, it is better to be feared than be liked -- if you are liked by the US, you are either a nobody or somebody who has sold out your country.

3. various chinese provincial-and-city level govts have been responsive to the protests and the feedback loop they represent, with their loosening of daily testing dictates and other measures. and on the national level, the language from the health 'czar' has already shifted to emphasize 'optimization' which signals opening about covid policy. anyway, anyone who says that the CPC govt just puts its head down and wishes the problem will go away is at a NYTimes-level of understanding about China.

Posted by: Mastameta | Dec 2 2022 1:52 utc | 89

" If that is the case, then it would explain why Russia has not destroyed Ukraine decision making centers, military command centers or railroads. And why TITANIUM is still being transported from Russia to Ukrainian oligarch owned companies indside Ukraine.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Dec 2 2022 0:31 utc | 80 "

Not only Titanium but everything else also. Not to mention, Russia still wont officially accuse the US of destroying its pipelines. We all know what would happen to a nation if it destroyed US pipelines.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 2 2022 1:54 utc | 90

@ waynorinorway | Dec 1 2022 20:30 utc | 43

I wonder if Scorpion knows anything about that. Missing /s ?
Perhaps NSDAPcalling might know ... SeanUA can't even get CPC right ... sigh ...

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 2 2022 1:59 utc | 91

" not that for smart people like Deplorable Commissar it takes very much. just slap "commie" on it and see draped a big "mission accomplished" banner over this person's opinions.

as bevin said, the absolute last thing these bastards want is a community acting out *communal interests.* but don't tell some capitalist know it all cornpone bircher american that.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Dec 2 2022 0:57 utc | 86 "

Mere word salad, in fact, I dont have any special hate against Communism, Democracy, and any other political system as they all have inherent, exploitable flaws. What I dont care for is hypocrites. Most here talk a good game about hating the West and wishing for its destruction yet they continue to live there -looking at you B and Saker -

B could easily move to Russia and the Saker can scamper off to Cuba. Whats stopping them ? Millions are moving to the West, it cant be that difficult to move in the other direction.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 2 2022 2:03 utc | 92

@ HelenB | Dec 2 2022 0:32 utc | 81

Well said. Thank you.

Given that Empire boasts openly China is its ultimate target, RF is a preliminarily objective ... rather unsurprising, yet truly anomalous the huge pile on of absolute Utter Bullshit propaganda re China in less than a hundred posts ... so many new posters too ...

Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three or more is overt action ... or words to that effect. Sigh.

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 2 2022 2:11 utc | 93

My thanks to b for a well argued commentary.

To George, Oriental Voice, SeanAU, Lu Renjia and others for saying what needs to be said, my thanks that I don’t have to repeat it, albeit less adroitly.

To RSH for some common sense among the “Covid does not exist, is harmless etc etc” clown segment.

And to those who snipe incessantly about China without actually knowing anything about it, this is what life is actually like under our authoritarian, repressive regime and its tyrannical, dynamic zero Covid policy:

Shenzhen has an excellent Covid record particularly in comparison with Shanghai, Guangzhou and others, but we are now experiencing another wave: considering we are 18 million that should perhaps be described as a ripple. This morning the overnight daily report quotes a slight reduction to 81 new confirmed cases and 94 asymptomatic infections. In our district of Nanshan (one of six) there were just seven.

As a low risk sub-district according to the recent 20 modifications we should be scaling back now from daily pcr tests to 48, 72..., but for the moment they are continuing. The burden we face is as follows.

Each evening at about 7.30 we go down three floors in our apartment to the test area. We are back in the apartment at 7.40 to 7.45. The result will be on our phones by breakfast next day and we need to show it to enter any premises. And that’s it. Otherwise life goes on as normal.

But it’s Friday! Music night in the Shekou bars and a brand new metro line 12 to whisk us there and back for pennies. It a tough life, but somebody has to do it.

Posted by: Walt | Dec 2 2022 2:17 utc | 94

I found it disappointing to read such post from b... After three years of covid kabuki theater around the world he praises communist dictatorship that applies nazi style measures against own people to fight(?) viral illness with 99.7% survival rate!

Posted by: PureBlood | Dec 2 2022 2:22 utc | 95

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Dec 2 2022 2:03 utc | 91
Posted by: PureBlood | Dec 2 2022 2:22 utc | 94

My comment at 93, I dedicate to you.

Posted by: Walt | Dec 2 2022 2:27 utc | 96

@Christian Chuba

Good websites (in English) about China.
Global Times

And of course, I have my you-tube channel that posts videos about Chinese daily life and comments.
MetallicMan Channel


Yes, China uses traditional Chinese medicine, techniques and herbology in the system along with western medical practices. However, I can not confirm which particular systems are used.


Of course there is an emphasis on masking. Signs to wear masks are everywhere and it is deeply embedded in the Chinese culture. Perhaps the reason why you might think that there isn't any emphasis is because you want to see laws, and rules regarding it displayed on a geopolitical forum. No need. School children are trained from day one to always wear masks if you are sick, if someone near you is sick, or if there is a sickness "in the air" where you frequent. Everyone here in China wears masks.

Posted by: Rufus Arrr | Dec 2 2022 2:32 utc | 97

German embassy in China posted a message on Weibo showing a person holding up a blank piece of paper. According to the mealymouthed message, in the German language, the future is often likened to a blank piece of paper. Question for German-speaking barflies: is the "in the German language" part true, or is the Germany embassy making shit up?

Btw, the version of the post I saw has a mocking message photoshopped onto it: "Lessons learnt: Next time, let's hope the money offered doesn't get skimmed by middlemen, and let's figure out which part of China speaks what dialect."

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Dec 2 2022 2:34 utc | 98

Posted by: Walt | Dec 2 2022 2:27 utc | 95

Walt, you participate in nazi style covid theater because you have no other choice. So please don't glorify it! Every day pcr testing? Madness! Please find video with Kary Mullis (pcr technology inventor with Nobel prize) him saying about this test and its "accuracy".

Posted by: PureBlood | Dec 2 2022 2:48 utc | 99

Unvaxxed senior citizen here with a healthy immune system. No masking and other precautions, except where/when mandated in stores, etc. Just did the usual natural regimen whenever a cold/flu starts.

My observation among my friends and acquaintances is that:
1. None of the unvaxxed regretted their decision and would do the same again
2. More than a few of the vaxxed would not do the same again, knowing they were lied to about the vaccine (inoculation really) preventing infection and spread.

I had hoped the second group would be larger than it is, but as this thread confirms, it is very difficult to get people to change their minds.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Dec 2 2022 2:54 utc | 100

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