Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 14, 2022
U.S.-Russian Intelligence Chiefs Discuss Ukraine

Earlier today the Russian news outlet Kommersant reported on U.S.-Russian negotiations in Turkey (machine translation):

As it became known to "Kommersant", today, November 14, negotiations between the Russian and American delegations are taking place in Ankara, the capital of Turkey. Director of the Foreign Intelligence Service Sergei Naryshkin flew to Ankara from the Russian side.

This meeting has not been publicly announced before. The source has so far declined to provide details of the talks.

Press Secretary of the President of Russia Dmitry Peskov said that he could neither confirm nor deny the information about the talks in Ankara.

The last time the Russian and American delegations met in Geneva was on January 10 for talks on security guarantees. The lack of practical results of the January negotiation process is often seen as a diplomatic prerequisite for the outbreak of hostilities in Ukraine.

The U.S. counterpart of Sergei Naryshkin is CIA director Bill Burns.

The negotiations have long been requested by Russia:

In the last month, the volley of calls for negotiation from Putin has intensified. On September 30, Putin called on Kiev “to return back to the negotiating table.” On October 11, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said  Russia "was willing to engage with the United States or with Turkey on ways to end the war." Two days later, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said that Moscow is “open to negotiations to achieve our objectives." On October 26, Putin sent a message to Zelensky through President Umaro Mokhtar Sissoco Embalo of Guinea Bissau, saying that “He wishes and thinks that a direct dialogue should happen between your two countries.” On October 30, Lavrov said that Russia is “ready to listen to our Western colleagues if they make another request to organize a conversation" as long as Russia’s security needs were considered. And on November 1, Putin said that “necessary conditions” could arise that would be a catalyst to talks.

On the U.S. side only one voice had recently publicly urged to start negotiations:

Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. According to US officials, Milley “has made the case in internal meetings that the Ukrainians have achieved about as much as they could reasonably expect on the battlefield before winter sets in and so they should try to cement their gains at the bargaining table.”

The top US general has made no secret of his stance. “When there’s an opportunity to negotiate, when peace can be achieved, seize it,” Milley declared in a public speech this week.

At the end of last week the Wall Street Journal reported that more members of the Biden administration agreed with that position:

As Ukraine Retakes Kherson, U.S. Looks to Diplomacy Before Winter Slows Momentum
American arms are flowing, but officials in Washington question how much territory either side can win Ukrainian cities including Kyiv have turned off streetlights to conserve energy after Russian attacks on power plants.

Senior U.S. officials have begun nudging Kyiv to start thinking about peace talks in the event winter stalls its momentum, following Ukraine’s recapture of Kherson in one of its most stunning triumphs of the war.

The imminent onset of winter—coupled with fears of inflation spurred by mounting energy and food prices, the billions of dollars of weaponry already pumped into Ukraine, and the tens of thousands of casualties on both sides—has prompted talk in Washington of a potential inflection point in the war, now in its ninth month.

Fact is that the 'west' is running short of ammunition it can deliver to Ukraine. That is why the U.S. is buying 100,000 rounds of 155mm artillery ammunition from South Korea:

“Negotiations are ongoing between the US and Korean companies to export ammunition, in order to make up for the shortage of 155mm ammunition inventories in the US,” the ministry said. The Pentagon said in a statement it has been “in discussion” about “potential sales” of ammunition by the US from South Korea.

But statements from South Korea and the US make clear that the deal, which has been in the works for months, has not yet been finalized. The purchase of such a large supply of artillery ammunition is highly sensitive for South Korea, especially given the recent missile launches and weapon tests conducted by North Korea.

To call 100,000 artillery rounds a 'large supply' is a joke. It is less than what the Russian army expenses in two days.

The 'west' currently no longer has the industrial capacity to make the products that are needed in a long high intensity war. It could rebuild that capacity but that would require a huge amount of money and long term commitments to buy significant amounts of such products.

Without a steady resupply of huge amounts of ammunition the Ukrainian army is done.

The Biden administration has now confirmed that CIA head Burns has met with Naryshkin. But it is lying about the content of the talks:

William J. Burns, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency, met with his Russian counterpart in Turkey on Monday to warn Russia against the use of nuclear weapons in Ukraine, a White House spokesman said.

The National Security Council said Mr. Burns’s meeting in Ankara was not in any way meant to negotiate or to discuss any settlement of the war in Ukraine. Ukraine was briefed in advance on the trip, the spokesman said.

President Biden has insisted that Ukraine, and not the United States, will dictate if and when negotiations commence to end the war.

Russia has not threatened to use nuclear weapons. There is no reason for it to do so and many good reason to refrain from using them. It would foremost alienate China and other Russian allies.  It was in fact the U.S. which planted nuclear scare stories in another of its attempts to smear Russia. The U.S. of course knows that there is no danger that Russia would use nukes and it is likely that Burns did not even mention them.

There are enough other problems. The electricity situation in Ukraine is getting worse as the weather gets colder. Some 40% to 50% of the 330 kilovolt network is down and more of it will fail.

What the U.S. needs is more time for Ukraine to repair damage and for the production and delivery of more weapons and ammunition. It needs a pause in the war. It may well hope for a kind of ceasefire during the winter. It is highly likely that Burns went to Ankara to talk about that.

Sure, the Biden administration has no interest in ending the war. It is setting up a headquarter in Germany where a three star general and his headquarter staff will direct the U.S. efforts in its, for now, proxy war against Russia. The claim is that the new command will be responsible for supplying Ukraine. That is unlikely to be true:

The Pentagon puts a 3 Stars General in Charge of War Operations — not Inventory. And you do not need a Headquarters Staff of 300 to do an Audit. It’s a War Headquarters Staff. We are going to war against Russia unless the American People can figure out some way to stop it!

The headquarter means that the U.S. is planing for a very long and bigger war.

NATO General Secretary Jens Stoltenberg has said that a Russian victory in the conflict in Ukraine would be a defeat for NATO and that it can not allow such an outcome.

If you can not allow something to happen that is already mostly assured you will have to do something very serious to prevent that outcome. NATO is not united enough to go to war. But the chances for a direct conflict are growing by the day. It will be left to U.S. and some east European countries to send their own troops into Ukraine.

The U.S. public is not yet ready for such a step and it will take more time to get to that point.

It is another reason why the U.S. would like to pause the war for now. But Russia is unlikely to fall for such a scam. A ceasefire would allow the Ukrainian military to regain some strength and to build up more defensive lines.

After its mobilization of reservists in September Russia will soon have the forces available that are necessary to breach the Ukrainian front lines to then storm through and attack deep behind those lines. As soon as the ground freezes it will be ready to go. Any pause now would make a later move more difficult.

There will be no ceasefire now but the talks are good anyway. Both sides should do there best to keep them going.

Russia has asked for a lot: a pullback of NATO to its 1997 position, four parts of Ukraine to become parts of Russia, a guarantee that Ukraine will never join NATO. The U.S. is certainly not willing to commit to those steps – at least not yet.

It will need time and many more talks for the U.S. to come to its senses and to make the necessary concessions to end the conflict.

It will also require the defeat of the Ukrainian military, and anyone who joins it, on the battle field. Russia can do that if it concentrates on that  effort.

Comments

I meant to write “i thought i understood…” sorry.

Posted by: Orgel | Nov 14 2022 21:33 utc | 201

@ English Outsider 97
Great post. Thank you.
A German outsider.

Posted by: Cherrycoke | Nov 14 2022 21:33 utc | 202

Falkvor Lomansson | Nov 14 2022 21:22 utc | 195 “Has there been any actual official confirmation of the U.S.-Russian meeting in Istanbul?”
Peskov confirmed it.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 14 2022 21:34 utc | 203

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 14 2022 21:25 utc | 199
I have no doubt that it is that creature. They don’t try too hard to hide it either.
“Here’s Olga Lakunova, a Ukrainian and former captive, who says in LIVE Ukrainian TV that she thinks the first thing Ukraine should do is kill all Russians, “even small children,” and calls for an ethnic cleansing to ensure every Russian is wiped out.”
https://twitter.com/theconvocouch/status/1592228425158209536

Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 14 2022 21:36 utc | 204

@ Passerby | Nov 14 2022 21:11 utc | 191
your idea makes sense.. it would definitely grind things to a halt – for how long, i am not sure..

Posted by: james | Nov 14 2022 21:37 utc | 205

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 14 2022 21:25 utc | 199
Yes, absolutely right about Israel. The hypocrisy is not only gobsmacking but also white-ants the entire post-Nuremburg consensus that underpinned US hegemony in Europe after 1945. It’s no wonder revisionist histories of WW2 are proliferating. Ken Burns’ new doco ‘US and the Holocaust’ was apparently fast-tracked for release from 2023 to 2022 at the insistence of the US Embassy in Berlin. This is called ‘shoring up the narrative’. No doubt we will see increased reruns of Saving Private Ryan, Fury, Longest Day, Where Eagles Dare, etc.
But as Curtis Yarvin rightly said, you can really sum up WW2 in just three words:
“America invaded Europe”
Put like that, without any moral accompaniment, it’s very clear that the future of empire is what’s at stake now.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 14 2022 21:39 utc | 206

See what I was saying, Paul Graig is right ( https://www.unz.com/proberts/the-ever-widening-war-2/?utm_source=email&utm_campaign=proberts)! There are some fifth colum traitors in the Kremlin, distorting any Russia Victory because there are so eurocentrics in their thinking! The simple fact that the West as laid bar it’s obective: Destroye, Weaken and Partition Russia and when you see Russia talking about SMO as if what it’s happening is not a full spectrum WAR?
Why Putin shy away on saying that Russia is at war? Why after blowing NS2 Russia still willing to sell gas top it’s aggresor? This whole situation does not make sense to me!
We were told Russia military left and retreat from Kherson because of the threat of Ukrainian blowing the damn in Kherson, question why now that russia is Out of kherson why russia doesn’t blow the damn to stop Ukrainian soldier? So it was all lies, agian and again! But why the need of lies if you are winning? Franckly this will be the more bizarre war in history!

Posted by: Acia02 | Nov 14 2022 21:39 utc | 207

I am not on your side and I am not on their side.
A warning from Isoroku Yamamoto, then Marshal Admiral of the Imperial Japanese Navy: Once the US uses its muscles (as in their powers to mass produce) Japan will be done. Things have changed, but the statement is still valid. In this case the industrial base is “the west” and not just America. Russia will be out produced if needed. It is so simple. No small victory, Putin 64d chess or any cunning plan will stop them. The economic crash of the west is possible, but as long as it does not happen – RF is done in this war.
The fact that RF is going for Iranian primitive drones tells you the same story. What a sad story: proud Russia needs weapons from the Mulah-regime and (if true) ammunition from 3rd world NK. Why do you not ask what went wrong? And it is never the people, its always the system!
Face it and I know u hate it – but you lost this war. Search for the reasons within yourself. Your own mistakes, the corruption, the backwardness of your system. I am not claiming that the west is a great place, but your side is way worse. And this war has proven it big time. The fact that homos are one of your most hated targets show that you have no understanding of the enemy.
Pray that the west shows mercy. China, your “friend” (and the only place in the east that truly can mass produce), has done nothing for you except lip-service and will be next on the US agenda. There is nothing RF did that appeals to the rest of the world. And the fact that most are neutral to this does not mean they like you. They just want to have no part in this shit.
Why should anybody support you outside the RF? Nothing good comes out of this war for the rest of the world!

Posted by: rob | Nov 14 2022 21:40 utc | 208

Tom_12 | Nov 14 2022 21:36 utc | 208
Yes I have seen it. These Ukrainians are so brainwashed they say the same shit in London.
https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1580241587162218497?cxt=HHwWgoDU4bvWku4rAAAA

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 14 2022 21:40 utc | 209

193 degenerate west puberty blockers. its just lupron , rebranded its used to chemically castrate paedo and rapists. its somewhat reversible but has bad body chemistry. to even think doctors can give this to kids without parental approval is beyond me. i see this as a perfect example of what the RF is up against. pure evil dressed up as progressive

Posted by: hankster | Nov 14 2022 21:40 utc | 210

Since the Outlaw US Empire refused to honor China’s demand that the contents of the Xi-Biden meeting be undisclosed, China has countered by publishing articles and editorials. Tomorrow’s Global Times editorial, “Long-awaited scene between China and the US gives the world relief”. Personally, I found some portions hilarious, this being the first:
“The international community generally expects China and the US to handle their relations well. This expectation is reflected in the international public opinion’s scrutiny of every detail of the meeting between the two leaders, and their hope to find positive signs from it. It can be seen that everyone’s feelings are similar. China-US relations have fallen to a low point since the establishment of diplomatic relations, and many people worry that China and the US will have a “new Cold War.” The severe consequences of a possible military conflict between China and the US have made the international community filled with concerns. Under such circumstances, the fact that the heads of state of China and the US can sit together and talk candidly is a positive signal to the outside world, whatever they have talked about. This is a general tone of international media reports on this meeting.”
Note the several contradictions. Here’s the next chuckle:
“Quite a few public opinions have noticed that the venue for this meeting is the Chinese delegation’s residence in Bali, and the hotel where the US delegation is staying is about 10 minutes’ drive away. Furthermore, this meeting was proposed by the US. In fact, it is not difficult to find that each time the continuous deterioration of China-US relations happens, it is due to the unilateral provocation by the US.
“As the saying goes, ‘whoever starts the trouble should end it.’ Only if the US takes the right attitude and practical actions can China-US relations return to the right track … We hope that the US can implement President Biden’s commitment instead of always saying one thing and doing another. This is both about sincerity and integrity.” [My Emphasis]
Of course, the Empire lacks both bolded qualities. We shall soon see the usual behavior: “saying one thing and doing another.” Here’s another two contradictions in just two sentences:
“China-US relations cannot deteriorate any further. In dealing with the huge and complicated bilateral relationship, it is impossible to solve all problems with just one meeting.”
Relations can and will go further downhill. All one needs to do is look at what teh EU’s being forced to do in its relations with China–Decouple is the order of the day and beyond.
The Global Times article on the meeting has a similar line as the editorial:
“The stakes for the summit, which took place one day before the G20 Leaders’ Summit was set to kick off in Bali, couldn’t be any higher, as the world, with growing concerns over the state of the world’s most consequential bilateral relationship, watched intently for any positive signs that the two countries will try to work toward lowering tensions and cooperate on global issues.”
The problem lies in what was revealed by the Empire’s read-out of the meeting:
“According to the readout released by the White House, Biden remained tough on topics that are China’s internal affairs, including Taiwan, Hong Kong, Xinjiang and Xizang (Tibet). Chinese analysts said the US has failed to realize that it was its unilateral, arrogant and hostile strategy against China that put bilateral ties in risk of spiraling out of control and toward direct conflict, and in the future, the risk of confrontation between the two great powers will still exist if the US refuses to change its arrogant attitude and hostile strategy.”
Those running the Empire are not at all interested in Xi’s proposal:
“China-US relations should not be a zero-sum game where one side out-competes or thrives at the expense of the other, Xi said. The successes of China and the US are opportunities, not challenges, for each other. The world is big enough for the two countries to develop themselves and prosper together, he added.”
The Outlaw US Empire is the last remaining major Plundering entity on the planet where its elite only know how to take it all as sharing–Win-Win–isn’t in their vocabulary or within their value system, all of which has a very well documented history up to the present moment. Most importantly, an analyst frequently used by Global Times made an important reminder that Biden isn’t in complete control of the Empire’s China policy:
“Jin Canrong, associate dean of the School of International Studies at the Renmin University of China, told the Global Times that ‘the US will continue to provoke China on the Taiwan question. After the midterm elections, Republicans are set to take the House, and the new Republican House speaker will very likely follow what Pelosi has done to visit the island, to show that Republicans dare to be tough against China.’
“Apart from this, the two major US parties will push the Taiwan Policy Act to keep forcing the White House to abandon strategic ambiguity on the Taiwan question, and this will then bring a new round of serious impacts on China-US relations, Jin said.” [My Emphasis]
Yes, it appears Biden is playing Good Cop to Congress’s Bad Cop, which means that the current policy direction will continue, and confrontation will escalate. However, it was nice of them to shake hands and smile, actions described as diplomatic niceties.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 14 2022 21:42 utc | 211

@ Patroklos | Nov 14 2022 21:39 utc | 210
ken burns documentary on jazz was revisionist history at its finest..

Posted by: james | Nov 14 2022 21:47 utc | 212

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 14 2022 21:25 utc | 199
Addendum to the foregoing:
The total subscription of the political, military and bureaucratic mandarin class in Europe (as in Australia) to US cultural and political liberalism is the Gordian knot for Russia. Parallels with Rome are helpful: once you co-opt the local provincial and municipal elites into the imperial order (via citizenship, opportunities for advancement, ‘young global leaders’ etc) then ‘de-Romanization’ is impossible. How do you remove the influence of US culture and individualism on your average German GenXer? Streeck’s point on this (from the week-in-review) was well made: you might as well try to tell a baby boomer that the Beatles are evil and must be purged. Only hard economic necessity affecting the masses at the structural level (food, shelter, energy) will cut the knot.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 14 2022 21:51 utc | 213

and say do you want to make a deal? …
“A majority in the UN has now more validity than a majority under Syria’s Assad. Alln that can be said about it is that the reign of US terror is about to end, inshallah, which is more than one can say about Alawite Assad. —Giyane | Nov 14 2022 20:59 utc | 183‡
Posted by: Acia02 | Nov 14 2022 21:39 utc | 211‡
One does not convict anyone of `treason’ on the basis of “valid opinion”.

Posted by: Laurence | Nov 14 2022 21:52 utc | 214

q 4 every1
when russia is losing (supposed) why is us trying to force to pay for a broke ukraine in un? (fact)

Posted by: Macpott | Nov 14 2022 21:56 utc | 215

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 14 2022 21:40 utc | 213
Unhinged. That’s the Spirit that was able to do this,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
That’s the Spirit that is in this commercial
https://twitter.com/pilotmsv/status/1513131559834079234

Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 14 2022 21:57 utc | 216

Posted by: rob | Nov 14 2022 21:40 utc | 212
All speculation, bravado and not many facts.
While Russia may have made a mistake in invading at first, it was in my view tricked to do so. They will realise that sooner or later, as long as there is no equal bravado among leadership to once again pump overconfidence as a coping mechanism (as many on this blog sadly fall back to after each loss). Then we may see a more rational approach and true commitment ergo motivation to fight this if that is indeed the right thing to do.

Posted by: alek_a | Nov 14 2022 21:58 utc | 217

karlof1 | Nov 14 2022 21:42 utc | 215
US is putting together a sanctions package with ‘partners’. Everything else is meaningless. When things are good to go Taiwan will be detonated.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 14 2022 22:00 utc | 218

Posted by: james | Nov 14 2022 21:47 utc | 216
Really? I haven’t seen it. I have watched the Country Music one though, which is just good ol’ mythology. I’m guessing ‘Jazz’ is too (and ‘Baseball’).
In the 1950s the CIA funded Arts Endowments to encourage musicians and artists to develop homegrown US kulcha. They did this because they were uber-conscious that Russia had the depth of an independent European tradition—old regime class, ballet, great composers and novelists, playwrights and modernist art, etc. Artists like Pollock were recipients of generous grants. One might even go so far to think that the 60s cultural revolution emerged out of a US desperate for an indigenous cultural contribution—henceforth to be documented in mythological glory by the court-appointed documentary film-maker with PBS endorsement. Even the American Civil War has been recast as a demonstration that the USA has ‘history’ and depth.
Take it from an Australian: we’re experts on colonial cultural insecurity.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 14 2022 22:00 utc | 219

ken burns documentary on jazz was revisionist history at its finest..
Posted by: james | Nov 14 2022 21:47 utc | 216
Ken Burns is a hack who happens to have good directorial chops and knows the style Americans like. Could you please elaborate specifically on the jazz docu? I’m not sure if I’ve ever mentioned it but I played in the lab band throughout college and jazz is one of my favorite genres. Curious to know what Burns got wrong.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 14 2022 22:01 utc | 220

Posted by: james | Nov 14 2022 21:47 utc | 216
Which is also why, deep down, the Yanks know that France and Germany (not to mention Greece, sErbia, Turkey, etc) would prefer to work with Russia. They’re a European country. Only the Brexit morons persist in their atavistic Russophobic schemes.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 14 2022 22:03 utc | 221

seems others are discussing ukraine too – iran and russia..
M. K. BHADRAKUMAR
Russia strategises with Iran for the long haul in Ukraine

“Patrushev stated: “We note the key role of Western secret services in organising mass riots in Iran and the subsequent spread of disinformation about the situation in the country via Persian-language Western media existing under their control. We see this as overt interference in the internal affairs of a sovereign state.”
and further down
“Suffice to say, from the geopolitical angle, Patrushev’s talks in Tehran — and Putin’s call soon after with Raisi — have messaged in no unmistaken terms that Russia is strategising for the long haul in Ukraine.”

Posted by: james | Nov 14 2022 22:04 utc | 222

Very roughly speaking Ukraine needs to recapture or be given 94,000 km2 to achieve its goals. Kharkov was an excellent counteroffensive that produced significant territorial results, but not significant in terms of the totals needed. Kherson was a tactical/operational withdrawal by Russia that looks bad but makes rational sense from a military perspective. Ukraine is entirely dependent on western aid to keep fighting and if it was actually winning to the degree that some posters here claim, it wouldn’t be needing constant infusions of aid. Or, it would have a lot more territory to show for all that aid.
Zelensky is adamant that Ukraine will take everything back and won’t even think about negotiations until all 94,000 km2 are cleared of Russians. The problem is that except for slim possibilities of total Russian collapse, Ukraine doesn’t have a path to achieve its goals. That leaves the US in a bad spot because Biden stupidly chained himself to Zelensky and ordered Zelensky to go fight to the death. The US is now experiencing some imperial overstretch and it’s not going to get better any time soon.
I assume that these Istanbul talks are mostly about other things, but don’t be surprised if they’re also about how Russia behaves after the US cuts Zelensky off. Because if there’s one thing every US proxy can be absolutely sure of, it’s that the US will stab them in the back and abandon them whenever support for the proxy becomes inconvenient. Zelensky will learn. Read the western media, articles about the corruption in Ukraine are popping back up. The US cannot “massively arm” Taiwan and Ukraine simultaneously while maintaining its own ability to fight. Difficult decisions coming. And Zelensky is just a pawn. He was always just a pawn. The US has never cared about Ukraine, so it won’t be bothered by abandoning it.

Posted by: Lex | Nov 14 2022 22:05 utc | 223

@ Patroklos | Nov 14 2022 22:00 utc | 223
well, it was quite controversial in the jazz community as it seems burns talked with marsalis, crouch and a few other black americans to present jazz in a particular way that a lot of people – especially well known jazz musicians) didn’t agree with .. the public on the other hand were not wise to any of this back story..

Posted by: james | Nov 14 2022 22:06 utc | 224

@ Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 14 2022 22:01 utc | 224
basically burns took marsalis’s word on the history of jazz and ran with it.. as a consequence a number of jazz musicians – typically all the white coloured ones – were left out of the story.. i am just scratching the surface.. i think keith jarrett was quite outspoken on this, but it is going back a number of years and based on my recollection… that is cool you played in the lab band and are into jazz!

Posted by: james | Nov 14 2022 22:08 utc | 225

Mark Twain’s Anglo Saxons is the five-eyes world view. I talked to my sister not long back about the multi-polar world that is emerging. She was horrified and – what, do you want us to be ruled by China. She has never just got on a plane and gone somewhere. Never been out of Australia. Many that do, go on guided tours. Nothing like just jumping on a plane, finding a place to stay and walking around, eating out in the evenings, to get the feel of the locals. Language don’t matter, good or bad comes through.
Australia has to go through some really hard times to break this Anglo superiority bullshit. I suspect that will come when we launch war and sanctions on China.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 14 2022 22:09 utc | 226

Posted by: rob | Nov 14 2022 21:40 utc | 212
lol “the industrial base is america”. what a crock. it’s not world war 2 anymore.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 14 2022 22:12 utc | 227

@ Patroklos | Nov 14 2022 22:03 utc | 225
i have always thought the uk was the usa’s trojan horse in europe… not much of a secret really and explains why the uk is always going to bat for the usa with regard to pretty well everything, including the destruction of europe and anything that gets in the way of usa dominance.. that is one definition for ‘rogue state’ – a term the uk pm was tossing around in the news today…

Posted by: james | Nov 14 2022 22:12 utc | 228

Ukraine’s Revenge on the West
Rainer Shea at the Orinoco Tribune-talks are also going on between the US and Venezuela- on the meaning of the Ukraine situation:
“…Ukraine is the great test for US imperialism’s ability to sway minds to its side. Two decades into a process of decline for Washington’s hegemony, catalyzed by the irrecoverable global blowback from the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions, the imperialists have staked their survival in the outcome of the Ukraine war. Not necessarily in whether Kiev wins—that was a lost cause from the start by any honest analysis—but in whether Washington’s most important allies stay loyal to it after Ukraine becomes fully spent as a tool for proxy warfare. The empire can afford to lose its sacrificial puppet regime in Ukraine. It can’t afford to lose the support of Europe.
“…By provoking Russia into taking action, the imperialists have mended the divisions within the NATO bloc that have been appearing in recent years, as well as fully assimilated the Nordic states into NATO. Yet these “victories” are only momentary, just like the economic damage that the sanctions have done towards Russia. In the long term, the NATO bloc is headed towards a new fissure, one that will be exacerbated by the economic catastrophe that the sanctions have brought upon the European countries. The increased militarization of Scandinavia is no loss to Russia, as the Nordic states were always imperialist satellite states, and their joining the war effort will accelerate their decay. …
“… To make Ukraine, a former Soviet state with deep historical and cultural ties to Russia, into a base for NATO proxy warfare, this history and culture had to be erased. The communist party had to be banned, communists had to be targeted by impune fascist vigilantes, the Russian language had to be barred from use in public life, the population had to be terrorized into submission through spectacular acts of state violence, and recognition of how the Banderite fascists participated in the Holocaust had to be criminalized. The next step would have been the forced relocation of the Donbas Russian speakers, but Russia has thankfully prevented that. The ongoing shellings of the Donbas and the war crimes by Ukrainian forces are futile attempts to bring this genocide to completion.
“The imperialists justify all of these evils if they’re even talked about, by accusing Washington’s challengers of themselves committing atrocities. These fabricated or false flag accounts of human rights violations are nothing more than covers for the real purpose of Washington’s warfare, which is not to advance human wellbeing but to maintain global monopoly capital…”

Posted by: bevin | Nov 14 2022 22:14 utc | 229

Point of Fact:
The Alaska Transfer was under a 99 year lease agreement, not a sale
Posted by: Exile | Nov 14 2022 21:25 utc | 198

Nope… please advise where in the treaty the word “lease” is present.
https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=015/llsl015.db&recNum=572
There are also allegations that the $7.2 million (in gold) as compensation never made it to Russia.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Nov 14 2022 22:14 utc | 230

@ Patroklos
My Nov 14 2022 22:09 utc | 231 was a reply to you. Forgot to address
it.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 14 2022 22:18 utc | 231

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 14 2022 22:09 utc | 231
We might actually be a successful nation if we could only get out from underneath the US/UK mummy-daddy guilt trip Oedipus complex. Here’s an idea: we supply power and resources to our region and build up a hi-tech manufacturing sector with cheap local energy. We secure our national sovereignty and tell anyone who screws with us to gft. And perhaps even arm ourselves properly to make it so.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 14 2022 22:18 utc | 232

re @234 A link might help
https://orinocotribune.com/left-anti-communism-is-what-lets-imperialist-propaganda-operate-unchallenged/
The author goes on to dissect both Tolkien and Orwell.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 14 2022 22:20 utc | 233

The US needs time to salvage Ukraine. Its economic war has not worked, but might turn around over a very long term. Its military war has exhausted stockpiles and trained Ukrainians, and it needs time to rebuild.
Those are exactly the reasons why the Russians ought not to give the US the time.
Are the Russians that stupid? We’ll see.

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Nov 14 2022 22:22 utc | 234

Only the Brexit morons persist in their atavistic Russophobic schemes.
Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 14 2022 22:03 utc | 225

As a matter of fact, when asked which Euripean political leader he admired the most, Nigel Farage said, “Vladimir Putin”.
Don’t confuse the Tory leadership with genuine brexiteers. Boris just used the issue to get up the greasy pole.

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Nov 14 2022 22:23 utc | 235

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 14 2022 22:00 utc | 222
The US has asked TMSC to build one or more chip factory in the US. Taiwan is safe as long as that factory is not finished.

Posted by: Passerby | Nov 14 2022 22:25 utc | 236

“Interesting too to observe that nationalistic Russians on Telegram and Twitter are by and large realists who are”—Posted by: spud farmer | Nov 14 2022 22:07 utc | 229‡ …
Also, overqualified. …

Posted by: Laurence | Nov 14 2022 22:26 utc | 237

Patroklos | Nov 14 2022 22:18 utc | 237
My thoughts exactly. We are part of the asia pacific. Our only threats are our so called allies. There is a major gas field in the southwest of the territory that can power eastern Australia for the next hundred years or so. That should be nationalized, developed and piped to at least half of Australia. Instead due to green ideology nothing will happen.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 14 2022 22:31 utc | 238

That gasfield from my 243 – southeast not southwest.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 14 2022 22:36 utc | 239

@ juliania | Nov 14 2022 22:38 utc | 245
fake juliania…. try harder..

Posted by: james | Nov 14 2022 22:41 utc | 240

you’ve kind of ran out of shit to throw on this thread and we’ll be watching for you in the future… you are gonna be thrown in the same pile as yenwoda, tom in uk and the baconfat dude… try harder..

Posted by: james | Nov 14 2022 22:43 utc | 241

Two more of these Ukrainian “victories” and there’ll be no more Ukrainian army left. Their banzai charges are great for photo ops/twitter but terrible for the numbers/body bags – they’re not even reporting their losses anymore.
Russia, due to previous miscalculations by naive/incompetent commanders, are having to preserve their strength while mobilisation continues. Land can be retaken later. Things should be clear by December. If Ukraine thinks this war is over, they’re in for a very rude awakening.

Posted by: Zico | Nov 14 2022 22:47 utc | 242

New Atlas. Haven’t watched completely but one issue related to logistics. Nato has absolutely the maximally extended supply line they can be while Russia has the shortest in Donbass and SE Ukraine – at least in this aspect Russian can keep grinding Nato forces and do it for much longer than Nato. This also relates to why Dnepr bridges are still there. The Ukrainian army is already pierced through and now Polish mercenaries (army) are grinded in numbers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRpJHQmIr4A

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 14 2022 22:47 utc | 243

kay it seems what happened in türkiye dropped some pops – cya trolls next time in 7~9 years?

Posted by: Macpott | Nov 14 2022 22:48 utc | 244

“Russia, due to previous miscalculations by naive/incompetent commanders, are”—Posted by: Zico ‡ Nov 14 2022 22:47 utc | 249
All their bases is belong to you, eh?

Posted by: Laurence | Nov 14 2022 22:53 utc | 245

Re Kherson -> Update from Brian Berletic’s TG channel @ https://t.me/brianlovethailand

What is the Goal & is Moscow Achieving it?
In order to analyze whether or not Russia is successfully carrying out its special military operation, it is first and foremost essential to understand what it is actually trying to achieve.
In late February, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a military operation in Ukraine seeking first and foremost the “demilitarization” of Ukraine. During the same speech, President Putin specifically noted that taking territory was not a priority.
Since then, Russian forces have decimated Ukraine’s armed forces, eliminating their trained manpower and emptying out both their own and their Western sponsors’ arsenals in the fighting. Russian forces have suffered relatively light losses compared to the tens of thousands Ukraine has suffered.
If Russia is fighting a war of attrition, it is clear they are winning despite the territorial changes on the map.

Details:
https://youtu.be/XRpJHQmIr4A

Posted by: Zet | Nov 14 2022 22:53 utc | 246

DH @ 157:
Thanks for uploading the link to The Moscow Times article! I missed your earlier comment @ 96.
Even over at The Moscow Times, the article reads very strangely. It doesn’t seem at all natural and there are no references to particular places in St Petersburg that would alert readers the writer knows this city very well. The Moscow Times itself (and that newspaper is not to be trusted – it was once owned by a Finnish media company and it is currently headquartered in Amsterdam) gives very little information about “Ksenia Aronova”, the author of the article, other than that she is a journalist and editor in St Petersburg.
So whoever the troll is, that person sure didn’t check to see that the article had been written by a bona fide St Petersburg resident and worker!

Posted by: Jen | Nov 14 2022 22:56 utc | 247

So we heard a comment from Zelensky that “he is ready for peace” – at the same time we hear about these negotiations in Istanbul. It might be paranoia, but this means that USA gets it that it won’t get any better than this. They want time to rebuild and consolidate their gains in eastern Europe, and annex western Ukraine for Poland.
All the Nato EU states are being fattened like pigs for the slaughter, and there’s not enough feed because Ukraine is getting it all.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 14 2022 22:59 utc | 248

We were told Russia military left and retreat from Kherson because of the threat of Ukrainian blowing the damn in Kherson, question why now that russia is Out of kherson why russia doesn’t blow the damn to stop Ukrainian soldier? So it was all lies, agian and again! But why the need of lies if you are winning? Franckly this will be the more bizarre war in history!
Posted by: Acia02 | Nov 14 2022 21:39 utc | 211

Two points:
1. The dam also feeds the canal which supplies most of Crimea’s industrial and agricultural water, plus some of the drinking water. Ukraine cut it off in 2014.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Crimean_Canal
2. From my experience in government in the last century, the stated reasons for doing something may be completely different from the real reasons for doing something. This is doubly true in negotiation and conflict situations.
For example, recently Zelensky told the press and public not to visit Kherson because of Russian mines and booby traps. No, he did it so they could prepare the stage for the “liberation” celebration ceremonies.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Nov 14 2022 23:03 utc | 249

She was horrified and – what, do you want us to be ruled by China. She has never just got on a plane and gone somewhere. Never been out of Australia.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 14 2022 22:09 utc | 231

Easy task. Make her watch some Chinese dramas.
The Long Ballad
Pretty Li Hui Zhen
Both fairly light cultural fare, but quickly addictive, consistently entertaining and very romantic. 😀

Posted by: Nobody | Nov 14 2022 23:06 utc | 250

What the US has going for it that Russia lacks is the desire to win at all costs while Russia wants to live in peace and cooperate.
That same dynamic plays out in the US. The elite and their leftist minions want to win. The right wants to grill. The left keeps winning and is cementing their hold of federal voting through ballot harvesting as well as control of all institutions.
So time is on the side of the US

Posted by: My Comment | Nov 14 2022 23:07 utc | 251

PeterAU 68
cheaper for west to allow through the fertilisers to needy countries to prevent more immigrants and concerned persons making demands for more foreign aid and to avoid costs when they arrive in eg UK ….or a conscience wakeup call perhaps….. ?

Posted by: Jo | Nov 14 2022 23:12 utc | 252

“I don’t know Peter, it s”—Posted by: rk ‡ Nov 14 2022 23:04 utc | 260
Your eyes, I say your eyes may look like ears
Yeah, but your head, baby
You don’t know where it is.

Posted by: Laurence | Nov 14 2022 23:14 utc | 253

Alastair Crooke’s SCF essay expands on his al-Mayadeen effort I linked yesterday. Here we see a rather important bit in light of the encounter that’s the main topic for this thread:
“The ‘online mob’ has been steered, through ‘influencers’, to insist that U.S. Realist Camp’s support for a negotiated settlement is tantamount to taking Russia’s side: rushing to denounce all voices – from Bill Burns’ (then U.S. ambassador and now CIA chief) celebrated 2008 telegram ‘Niet means Niet’ warning that any NATO takeover of Ukraine means war; to Prof Mearsheimer, Kissinger, or Elon Musk – as dangerous ‘Putin apologists’. Musk now faces a security probe.” [Emphasis Original]
So, Burns is a “Putin apologist” and realist that’s outside the Neocon–“influencers”–camp. Crooke continues:

The logic is stark: This shrinks the Overton window to only those advocating the total defeat of Russia and an end to Putin’s ‘regime’ – even if it risks WWIII. It is the ‘slash and burn’ stance, favoured by the U.S. and allied EU neo-cons.
So, we have Washington saying it has no interests, per se, in Ukraine – beyond supporting Kiev in recovering its territory. The Biden Administration says it is guided by the wishes of the Ukrainian people.
Do you still not see the problem to which this logic takes us? It is a Potemkin Village position. All façade and nothing ‘behind’ or around it. The conflict in Ukraine is not itself ‘a unique thing’, but a ‘thing’ of two leaves. At one level, Ukraine is a ‘state’ among surrounding states; and at another level, it is itself an actor. A ‘player in events’ – an owner indeed, of a certain history.
What the Potemkin ‘approach’ does is to artificially free-up some sort of abstract ‘clearing in the wood’ amidst the density of trees, in which the visible thing – Ukraine – is to be positioned, and set before the western spectator public, stripped naked of surrounding context; stripped of history and of the fact of itself being a conscient player in an extended drama.
The Realists have been culture blocked. Their motives impugned.
The title to this play – ‘America has no fundamental interests in Ukraine, and is but an innocent, called up upon the stage by an act of brutal villainy’ – is an obvious fraud. As is the corollary that the EU must therefore support the ‘war’ as Ukraine is victim. [Emphasis Original]

Crooke sees it all and places it within the overall context of the Outlaw US Empire’s shift in focus to Asia after the debacles in Iraq, Afghanistan and 2007-8’s Great Banker Fraud. Do note which key donor interests are being provided for in this orchestration. To be sure, they have greatly profited but the geopolitical and geoeconomic goals of the adventure are failing to be met and now face blowback. By next Summer, the destruction of Europe’s economy will finally hit the Empire, economically and politically, both of which will be ignored as best as possible. Remember, “Fuck the EU.”
The lies delivered today by Biden are simply the same old lies. The recently delivered policy documents contain the real policy deals despite the military impossibility of their being attained. The problem with China is Trump already tried using the usual Hybrid tools and failed. Employing the remaining financial tools are very risky in terms of blowback, and the Outlaw US Empire will discover to its dismay that China’s economy is in reality #1 in size on the planet as it doesn’t have the massive overhead Neoliberal costs that are destabilizing and shrinking the Empire’s economy.
IMO, discussions about our Hybrid Third World War cannot treat either of the three main actors–China, Russia, Outlaw US Empire–actions as being independent of each other, while the coming NIEO will expand the number of actors actively working to end the Empire’s hegemony.
In Nature, the old lame elephant is first attacked by one than swiftly several other hyenas prior to the remaining hyena clan entering the fray and finishing off the elephant. That’s Nature’s Law of Life that no entity can avoid.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 14 2022 23:17 utc | 254

Jen @ 256 You’re welcome. A couple of people had doubts about karlof’s # 79 so I copied a bit of the text and did a google search. Lo and behold somebody had the effrontery to post an article from Moscow Times using karlof’s name!!!. Amazing the depths they will go to. This place has become a battleground.

Posted by: dh | Nov 14 2022 23:17 utc | 255

Jesus ever loving Christ if the Russian leadership has two unvodkad brain cells left they must understand any treaty is a trick to buy time get updated weapons and more of them deployed closer under pretexts like missle defense. Its always the same trick so seriously if your from the Russian services you should fire anybody who suggests a treaty. They’re a traitor.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Nov 14 2022 23:21 utc | 256

If there is a Minsk III agreed being seriously considered that tells me Russia is not in such a good position that the majority posters are saying they are. N’est ce pas?

Posted by: whitebeach | Nov 14 2022 23:23 utc | 257

I’m finding to follow the usa’s ammmo shortages.
A reasonable extrapolation puts the amount of ammunition produced for the United States market at somewhat over 9 billion rounds, of which 5 billion are rimfire and 4 billion are centerfire rifle, pistol, and shotgun rounds in 2020.
https://www.ammoland.com/2020/11/how-much-ammunition-is-produced-for-the-united-states-market/#axzz7kezgV1wx
Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2020/11/how-much-ammunition-is-produced-for-the-united-states-market/#ixzz7kf0p7b6b
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

Posted by: sean | Nov 14 2022 23:24 utc | 258

Patroklos@225
I take it that you know better than to believe that the majority calling for Britain to leave the EU consisted of morons.
Plenty of morons voted for Brexit but most of them voted Remain.
Among those voting to leave the EU and its neo-liberal dominated, Commission run, anti-democratic institutions were the remnants of the Socialist movement which opposes NATO, fights imperialism and held that Britain should strengthen its links with countries like China, Russia and Iran, Venezuela, Cuba and Bolivia (and many others) which would not only have made perfect trading partners but would have enabled Britain to dismantle the US basses which not only burden it and direct its budgetary policies but which makes Britain a prime first strike target in any nuclear exchange.
Under Corbyn’s leadership the membership of the Labour Party grew to 600,000 plus enrolled ‘supporters’. It was the largest political party in Europe. And the membership, if not the leadership, was largely committed to these views.
This view of the world, first put forward in print, after the war by GDH Cole and promoted by the anti-rearmament, anti-imperialist wing of Labour and the Trade Union movement, later under Tony Benn’s influence fought against joining the Common Market. They argued that the EEC was a profoundly anti-democratic force which could (and did) become what it is today. And that membership of the European Community, always in the final analysis directed by Washington, would be incomptible with any British ambition to build socialism, beginning with the socialisation of the economy.
It is no accident that the vote for Brexit was heaviest in the old Labour heartlands in the North and in South Wales where, despite decades of neo-liberal de-industrialisation socialist traditions still exist.
The morons were those who thought that by nestling under the wing of the Empire and its agents in Brussels the UK would go from strength to strength, under the benevolent rule of kindly members of the Imperial ruling class. Some of them were Remainers but many were like the Johnson Tories anti-working class neo-liberals who aspired to a special relationship of the sort demonstrated in MI6’s sponsorship of terrorism against Russia. And perhaps its Turkish friends too.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 14 2022 23:30 utc | 259

How are names of commenters here hijacked? Is there no matching of name and email address when a comment is posted?

Posted by: tucenz | Nov 14 2022 23:32 utc | 260

How are names of commenters here hijacked? Is there no matching of name and email address when a comment is posted?

Posted by: tucenz | Nov 14 2022 23:32 utc | 261

peter au, jen and dh…
it seems some folks read the comments and the trolls and losers skip over a lot of the posts… that is yet another way to tell the difference here… posters like benjo and rk – clearly not reading the posts, or a part of the problem – some combo of both perhaps..
@ Uncle $cam | Nov 14 2022 23:18 utc | 267
real or fake uncle $cam? another poster who is not following along at any rate..

Posted by: james | Nov 14 2022 23:32 utc | 262

To English Outsider.
The ‘who’ you refer to is clearly explained by Carroll Quigley in his book Tradegy and Hope.

Posted by: whitebeach | Nov 14 2022 23:33 utc | 263

Benjo @ 255:
That’s not Juliania @ 245, that’s the troll using Juliania’s name. The troll is becoming really shameless now. Juliania would never talk like that @ 245.
—————–
It seems that the trolling here has become desperate. There seems to be an edge of panic in the trolls’ posting. (I’ll refer to the troll as “trolls”, ie in plural, since there may be more than one here.)
The trolls are resorting to cutting and pasting articles from sources that some of us can find and expose as dubious or biased in some way. The comment @ 79, supposedly from Karlof1, was quickly traced back to The Moscow Times and the original writer of that article already looks fishy. The comment @ 94, supposedly from Norwegian, comes from an article by Pavel K Baev at the Jamestown Foundation. For the curious, Baev himself is a researcher at a thinktank in Oslo and at the Brookings Institution in Washington DC, in Think Tank Row.
I suppose the likes of Langley, GCHQ, the 77th Brigade and others are finding that the calibre of college students and graduates they hire to staff the call centre cubicles specifically to troll us and other political blogs isn’t up to scratch. With humanities and philosophy departments at universities long having been hollowed out, academics teaching critical thinking having been chased away ages ago and replaced by third-rate teachers obsessed with their own ideologies or narrow pop culture interests, the result is declining standards of thinking among students and graduates. Cutting and pasting articles into comments, and leaving out links to sources, is perhaps all the new trolls can do.
We should not flatter ourselves that higher grade trolls are infesting MoA comments threads. The opposite may well be the reality.
🙂

Posted by: Jen | Nov 14 2022 23:34 utc | 264

re: tucenz | Nov 14 2022 23:32 utc | 275
and as for this double posting quirk…

Posted by: tucenz | Nov 14 2022 23:36 utc | 265

Posted by: juliania | Nov 14 2022 22:38 utc | 245
Jesus, you shanghaied Juliana’s account too…Give it a rest. She sounds nothing like this.

Posted by: AParadiseLost | Nov 14 2022 23:36 utc | 266

Posted by: bevin | Nov 14 2022 23:30 utc | 272
Well we’re now seeing the results of your contempt for the EU – long term decline of the British economy, from which no recovery will be made. Pity about the fate of what I suppose is your former country. you don’t care about it at all.

Posted by: laguerre | Nov 14 2022 23:36 utc | 267

Can’t wait for Putin to get a bullet in the back of the head. Fingers crossed it happens this week! 🤗

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 14 2022 23:37 utc | 268

whitebeach@269
Not at all.
Minsk 1 and 2 were acceptable not only to Russia but to the Eastern Ukrainians. Russia has always said that its SMO was to implement the conditions agreed upon at Minsk and- under the rubric of de-militarisation and de-nazification- prevent Ukraine from reneging on its agreements to respect minority rights.
Any agreement that protects Russian speakers from genocide, restores democracy in Ukraine by ending the ban on opposition parties and non-state media, gives the Donbas Quebec style autonomy and similar safeguards, would be acceptable, I think, in Russia, the eastern and other regional minority provinces of Ukraine and wherever sane people drink tea or listen to music together.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 14 2022 23:41 utc | 269

I wonder, was Kiev / Zelensky consulted ? No point , is there ?

Posted by: Buford T Justice | Nov 14 2022 23:46 utc | 270

Neofeudalfuture | Nov 14 2022 23:21 utc | 268
Time is on Eurasia’s side not the Empire’s.
The west is crumbling, unipolarity is one its way out. An agreement that allows the US to prepare for more war (have you seen their Defence budget?) also allows Russia to switch its efforts towards war too.
And the Russians have much more room to grow. The US and NATO risk fiscal disaster (ask Rishi Sunak) by not cutting Defence costs.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 14 2022 23:46 utc | 271

💣💣💣 can’t fuckin wait, straight to hell, you closeted cunt

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 14 2022 23:47 utc | 272

So why did Putin agree to talk to the same “non agreement capable” Western “partners” who are openly fighting his country, not to speak of asking for negotiations anyway?
Can it possibly be because Putin has no desire to commit the resources and socioeconomic costs necessary to win? Why has the Ukranazi rail network not been taken out of commission? Is it not the by now widely recognised fact that Russian oligarchs have deep business interests in Ukranazistan?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 14 2022 23:50 utc | 273

When the moon rose over Alabama there was a peacock on top of every tree. The bullshit must be deep there. Didn’t used to be that way.
Thanks b! Still loving the visit to the bar.

Posted by: Dodgy Bodger | Nov 14 2022 23:53 utc | 274

@291:
So that’s going to be the copium line? I thought the Putin cultist claim was Russia didn’t intervene in 2014 to crush the Ukranazi coup regime because it needed until 2022 to prepare? Now the copium is it will agree to apause because it needs to prepare even more?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 14 2022 23:55 utc | 275

Agreed, the attempts to distort the general thrust of our discourse shows we’re moving in the correct direction and pose a threat to the Establishment’s Narrative.
However, it’s painfully clear Typepad’s “security” is non-existent. Fortunately, b’s OPs can’t be interdicted like the comments.
On the new book publication I noted earlier, I found this 840 page PDF of it that’s in Russian.
Another news item tells us that Russia’s Security Council will meet after Lavrov returns from the G20.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 15 2022 0:00 utc | 276

To Bevin
I wasn’t saying Minsk 1 and 2 were unacceptable to Russia and to the Eastern Ukrainians.I am just saying EVERYTHING has changed. e.g new Russian territories still in the hands of Ukraine. Any new deal will have to have these territories returned to Russia. And then what about Odessa, will Russia forget about that? I don’t think there is any chance of a ‘peace’ deal. This is WW3 whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

Posted by: whitebeach | Nov 15 2022 0:04 utc | 277

@ all us bar flies and gracious landlord b,
Ain’t it something when sock puppets actually start imitating us mere bottom dwellers at this magnificent bar? I wasn’t fooled by any single post. Dear Karlof and co. You are inimitable 😉
Troll army. They must be in a bit of a tizzy. Perhaps they were paid in crypto and are a bit punch drunk. Maybe many didn’t show up for work today. Maybe the bosses have gone for an easy sock puppet of genuine barflies. Who knows. It does look a bit panicked though.
As I have been hopefully discerning correctly (Rope-a dope Russian tactic included) the end days are upon us and Gramscis description of the end of this ugly empire has finally found its time.
URA!!

Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 15 2022 0:08 utc | 278

Friends, as an infrequent poster, but a daily reader, I think that too many of you are giving the trolls/imposters the keys to the bar.
I recommend sticking to the topic(s) at hand, and quit wasting everybody’s time telling us which comments are fake.
Please return to providing us barflies the usual well researched knowledge, and your accompanying opinions.
The Russia/Putin haters aren’t going away.
Neither am I.
So, how about talking to me, and those like me, who could give a f*ck less what moniker is affiliated with a comment, and instead value all of the good/great stuff that I find in the body of your text.
Relax, my friends.
Putin, Xi, et al have got this.
I’ve been here in “ the states” for 65 years.
Accountant/auditor for most of my adult like.
The wheels are coming off here.
Have a little patience.
Couldn’t prevail in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, can’t even squash little Cuba.
It’s gonna suck around here.
Any thoughts on Nicaragua?
It’s been recommended as a possible destination.
Thanks again for the encouragement, during a tough time.

Posted by: $outhpaw | Nov 15 2022 0:13 utc | 279

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 14 2022 18:38 utc | 79
That’s clearly not karlof1.
That’s some amateur with a keyboard.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 15 2022 0:19 utc | 280

My so-called president, the demented Biden, when asked about the Ukraine in Bali, uttered nothing but meaningless platitudes about their bravery. A far cry from the “Putin must go” et cetera of just a few months ago.
This shit show may hopefully be ended with a reasonable settlement soon. The USA has secured Europe’s destruction through a modified version of the Morgenthau plan.

Posted by: trying again | Nov 15 2022 0:20 utc | 281

Posted by: AParadiseLost | Nov 14 2022 23:36 utc | 282
Yes, thanks AParadise, and James as well. That was not me.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 15 2022 0:20 utc | 282

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 14 2022 18:38 utc | 79 <-- Fake karlof1. More trollery. As I said before, pay attention for posts that are too stupid or grossly out of character to be produced by the poster if the byline is well-known. Karlof1 did not post the indicated article. Be aware that the troll will probably post again as karlof1 disputing the outing of his trollery. Do not buy it. Karlof1 is not stupid like the troll. The trolls should eventually learn to only try and impersonate poster they are smarter than, though that will severely limit their options here.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 15 2022 0:21 utc | 283

Passerby @ 191

On 18 march, Russia used a Kinzhal “dagger” missile to blow up an Ukrainian arms depot, 150 meter underground… What do you think?

Well, now that we’re into WW3 anything is possible, but if on Feb 24 that Kinzhal had been used against NATO HQ in Brussels the west would have shit its pants and WW3 would have ended as fast as it started, on Russia’s terms. Minks would have been signed, Ukraine would be neutral, light’s on and cities intact, NATO rolled back to 1997 boundaries, and thousands alive on both sides.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 15 2022 0:24 utc | 284

Posted by: $outhpaw | Nov 15 2022 0:13 utc | 304
I recommend sticking to the topic(s) at hand, and quit wasting everybody’s time telling us which comments are fake.
The trolls would absolutely love it if we stopped pointing out their fakes …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 15 2022 0:26 utc | 285

Norwegian | Nov 14 2022 19:00 utc | 94 <-- Fake Trolls are trying to smear Norwegian now too? These trolls are getting silly. I can't wait until Russia begins the next phase of their operation `cuz then the trolls will retreat back under their bridges. It looks like until then we will just have to cope with there being more trolls than legitimate posters.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 15 2022 0:29 utc | 286

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 14 2022 23:17 utc | 265
Thank you for the link, karlof1. That is a good ‘long game’ assessment of Alistair Crooke, and justifiable warning from China. Not only for Europe, but for my home country, New Zealand, as well. Even well before the US was heavily receiving Chinese goods, when I was down there I saw how dependent NZ had become. I don’t believe helping train Ukrainian solders is going to solve the problem of what has to be sea trade with China. Especially as there seems to be a diminishment of the former military students.
Trust is indeed an important element in the equation. Build back better, kiwis!

Posted by: juliania | Nov 15 2022 0:32 utc | 287

@312
On Telegram it’s claimed that Russian drones were watching Elensky in Kherson and Russian artillery wanted to fire on him but were prevented from doing so by direct orders from higher up.
If this isn’t treason and sabotage, what is?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 15 2022 0:34 utc | 288

I would not believe much out of Milley’s mouth. They are hoping to spend the winter on resupplying the Ukraine with whatever they can scrape up and training them on a multitude of systems that logistically are a nightmare to support.
Both sides are going to continue pushing and probing indefinitely. The Ukraine has become a giant vortex suction of resources from very wealthy NATO countries who have abandoned their energy supply lines before securing new energy supply lines. All of this while they beat up on the energy companies who have to build out new supply chains for affordable competitive energy.
I am pretty sure Russia sees themselves in a worse position now where in WWII Hitler had to fight across half of Poland and the Ukraine on their way to Moscow. With the Ukraine in NATO armed with NATO arms Moscow is not nearly as defensible.
I see no peace in sight. Of course, I did not think this war would come so soon either. It was inevitable none the less.
The Ukraine is has become and will remain a proxy battlefield to weaken and destabilize Russia for the hope for control of their resources and industry. Secondarily they probably hope to weaken the relationship between Russia and China with new Russian leadership the Anglo Americans hope to control.
Basically the darkness of the Anglo-American-NATO-Zionists religion deeply ingrained in the leaders has one end in sight and no human suffering is not enough to obtain their goal. Their army of well paid bureaucrats and trolls follow them ignorantly and willingly. There is no end in sight.

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 15 2022 0:41 utc | 289

Also from Telegram:
Source:
https://t.me/TXDPR/3140

Russia will begin to deprive citizenship for discrediting the army.
Vladimir Putin has introduced an amendment to a draft law on the possibility of depriving acquired citizenship in the first reading:
▪️activation of an undesirable organisation;
▪️ dissemination of knowingly false information on the use of the army;
▪️calling for the violation of territorial integrity;
▪️ discrediting the army;
▪️ public calls for extremism;
▪️ encroachment on the life of a public figure;
▪️ organising an armed insurrection;
▪️ desecration of the national coat of arms and flag;
▪️banditry, robbery, bribery, vandalism, and some others.

Translation:
More “hard decisions”, which might lead to calls for a military coup, are coming.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 15 2022 0:41 utc | 290

re: Patroklos | Nov 14 2022 20:01 utc | 143
you wrote, “They haven’t hijacked my monicker! Should I be insulted? I’ve been posting here for 4-5 years at least
LOL, You do richly deserve to be hijacked!
PUTIN IS HITLER! PUTIN IS HITLER1. FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY!! USA NUMBER 1 !!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Patroklos (Perimetr) | Nov 15 2022 0:44 utc | 291

That seriously inaccurate diatribe by the imposter taking the name of karlof1 should be ignored and stricken from your minds. We have seen reports from other sources that have described in detail the real situation in the larger cities of Russia and this…ain’t it!

Posted by: Safe | Nov 15 2022 0:45 utc | 292

Imps: short for impersonators.
So now we have both trolls and imps 😛
· · ·
My views and speculation concerning the meeting (not confirmed or denied) in case it happened:
· I suspect it is CIA in full “behind the scenes” damage control mode and “firefighting” because the Russians are a little bit angry about something not in the news and not talked about here.
· It would not be surprising if Russia has all the information they could want and may be ready to use it as retribution, they have full deniability.
· The CIA has no relevance to the claimed topic of discussion, they likely also don’t have anything juicy or especially important to offer up as compensation or apology.
Or maybe it’s simply the CIA trying to outsource Biden lol XD
Ain’t fog fun! 😀

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Nov 15 2022 0:51 utc | 293

Earlier today the Russian news outlet Kommersant reported on …
Subsequently many other reports were made. Specifically denying “negotiations” and instead referring to them as talks/discussions NOT about ceasefires or peace talks at all.
One example which I posted here: by CNN White House reporter quoting officials:

·New: CIA Director Bill Burns is meeting with his Russian counterpart Sergey Naryshkin in Ankara today to discuss detained US citizens and nuclear risk, NSC spokesperson tells me, confirming Kommersant. Spox emphasizes tho that Burns is “not conducting negotiations of any kind.”
https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1592147628879482882

Natasha went on to “Report” and Quote:
“He is not discussing settlement of the war in Ukraine,” spokesperson says. “He is conveying a message on the consequences of the use of nuclear weapons by Russia, and the risks of escalation to strategic stability. He will also raise the cases of unjustly detained US citizens.”
NSC spokesperson emphasizes Burns is “not conducting negotiations of any kind.”
unjustly detained US citizens? Now who could they be? Note “detained” versus arrested or already tried and jailed. Detained?
Burns is of the CIA, and don’t the CIA run special undercover forces military type ops? They are not all James Bond spooks or desk jockeys. I do not know, no one knows right, but we have never heard about all those reports “deemed US/NATO mil/ops personnel” supposedly captured in Mariupol yet. Of course these CIA/MIL connected “citizens”types could have been found and detained anywhere in Ukraine in recent months.
Just because Russia has often stated they are open to negotiations”doesn’t equate to a request for negotiations or peace talks. Because Lavrov has also stated Russia is not interested until or unless Ukriane is interested and willing to accept the annexation of the 4 new oblasts as a basic pre-condition ….
and despite what Milley said, there is no opportunity to seize! So this “peace talks” chatter is missing the point, the forest for the trees – it has all the hallmarks of “fake news” conjectures by people who are not in the know, aka a media blogosphere twitter storm myth making and guesswork – aka making it up as we go “analysis” based on the total absence of any evidence at all!
RE:” But it is lying about the content of the talks” – well assuming the US Govt is “lying” and cannot be trusted/taken at their word has to be par for the course. But so what? It doesn’t mean they are lying this time about no “peace negotiations”or no discussions about a ceasefire.
Look at what they did say instead. Specific public comments by officials are generally not outright “at face value lies” :
RE “The headquarter means that the U.S. is planing for a very long and bigger war.”
Not necessarily. That’s a big assumption (strawman) to build on top of a simple “office” arrangement. I have seen reports that suggest there already was a headquarters with a 3 star general in charge and he’s been replaced by another 3 star general …. so? I don’t believe the chatter about the 300 – this is very foggy info.
Why believe these “media reports” and “blog posts” in the first place? Why assume they are credible and not disinformation and more likely more lousy journalism and bad research by the Lame stream media and amateurs? I read the doctorow screed last night, and posted to MoA about that saying there is nothing in it at all … to me it’s nothing more than conjecture and assumptions based on nothing factual or really credible.
This talk about running out of ammo, of wanting a ceasefires while saying simultaneously the US doesn’t want the war to end and in fact” the U.S. is planing for a very long and bigger war.”, a need to regroup repair Ukraine infrastructure, to get more ammunition and the usual warning of not to go nuclear is only talking around the issues, and do not add up to anything meaningful anyone can hang their hat on.
The whole commentary (here and elsewhere) is speaking about “negotiations” for “ceasefires” and “peace talks” that do not exist and have in fact been denied out right by both sides – and repeatedly so – for weeks on end.
So I don’t get the point of it all – I think it is misreporting the facts about what is actually known – and what could be reasonable balanced logical conclusions from that.
Without some genuine hard evidence or credible sources that can be confirmed from both sides it’s all another beat up over nothing.
Which is exactly what the US/Western MSM and the Intel stenographers are won’t to do. IF it fits the narrative wanting to be told then PUBLISH IT anyway! Make it sound as compelling and believable as possible.
YMMV but I am not buying it, nor drinking from this well.
imho people really need to be far more discerning and skeptical – that’s all “blog” authors, pseudo-citizen-journos, and the youtube talking heads and their readers and listeners.
But whatever, people do have their cognitive biases and they demand to be fed.

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 15 2022 0:53 utc | 294

@Peter AU1 141
“walks like a duck, talks like a duck….”
While this may result in much speculation about anitadae, it will probably turn out to be superman.

Posted by: Hermit | Nov 15 2022 0:55 utc | 295

And please THINK and be alert!
The CIA head does not negotiate ceasefires or peace talks between belligerents!!!

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 15 2022 1:00 utc | 296

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 14 2022 21:42 utc | 215
Very Confucian, karlof1! Makes me think if New Zealand would only change ‘kiwi fruit’ back to ‘chinese gooseberries’ as they were named when I was young, all might be forgiven.
Thanks, as always for your analysis.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 15 2022 1:01 utc | 297

Interesting how the trolls don’t try to impersonate king donkey rear .org or bacon fat or any of the other known trolls.
But then again, would anyone even notice if they did?

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 15 2022 1:05 utc | 298

Willaim Gruff @310–
Thanks for your reply. Yes, it’s easy to imitate when the comments are one liners but complex commentary is very hard to imitate. As most know, I seldom post short comments. One would think the username must match the email addy as that’s hidden, but that security measure no longer functions, perhaps due to the attack delivered last week? I’d also expect the email and URL to be linked in a similar manner.
Yes, pointing out the fakes disrupts the thread, but IMO that must be done. As Crooke and others have alluded, the level of hysteria has escalated, so the walls must be shaking somewhere. No more Pelosi as Speaker will be good as long as a Gingrich isn’t her replacement. Tomorrow we’ll get to dissect G20 antics and continue to guess about the spooks meeting in Turkey.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 15 2022 1:11 utc | 299

I don’t think there is any chance of a ‘peace’ deal. This is WW3 whether anyone wants to admit it or not.
Posted by: whitebeach | Nov 15 2022 0:04 utc | 301
Eminently sensible and rational opinion. I agree.
Were Russia to agree to any kind of “ceasefire” or “negotiated” peace settlement with the US/NATO at this point would only confirm the Russians are complete idiots and utter incompetents from Putin down.
Instead Russia needs to up the ante as much as possible and call every single one of America’s bluffs and threats.
Russia needs to go hard or go home!

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 15 2022 1:18 utc | 300