Ukraine Open Thread 2022-211
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
The current open thread for other issues is here.
Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Posted by b on November 29, 2022 at 19:23 UTC | Permalink
next page »@ OohCanada | Nov 29 2022 19:36 utc | 1
i bet they won't look deeply into this either... the west is very sick at this point in time..
Posted by: james | Nov 29 2022 19:37 utc | 2
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/41185
NATO partners have been training Ukrainian troops for years. Even now, I recently visited the UK, and there NATO instructors from Finland, Canada, Denmark and other countries are now training thousands of Ukrainian military - NATO Secretary General StoltenbergHe is trying to say that none of this works, the Ukraine regime supported by NATO is still losing.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 29 2022 19:45 utc | 3
Ukraine’s 2030 World Cup bid likely dead after country’s FA chief arrested
Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Nov 29 2022 19:47 utc | 4
Those supportive of Russia and certainly those involved in free Khersons government or politics left in the Russian baggage train. They’re killing random people that can’t appropriately answer some Ukrainian cultural shibboleth.
Posted by: Cesare | Nov 29 2022 19:48 utc | 5
Russia proper attacked....once again.
Right now, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are shelling the Sudzhansky district, about 11 arrivals have been recorded, there is a hit on the power supply facility - Governor of the Kursk region
https://t.me/intelslava/42058
On top of that Patriot missiles are about to be given to Ukraine, probably early 2023. = time is really closing in on Russia's ability to wage air war.
NATO is discussing the transfer of Patriot air defense systems to Kiev, said NATO Secretary General Stoltenberghttps://t.me/intelslava/42048
Posted by: Zanon | Nov 29 2022 20:05 utc | 6
Russia makes some actual gains on the central donetsk front. Ukraine discovers mass grave at the same time. Ukrainian moves towards sverdonetsk go no where, guessing they're moving units from the central front north. Zelensky is complaining about Russians firing on Kherson so they must've hit something sensitive.
Propoganda is starting to really whine about the electrical strikes so thats a tell for Russia to carry on and ignore all the bad press and not buckle and wait for a pat on the head. It was funny they pulled out of arms talks with the us, obviously no treaty will be enforced the moment the us catches up in missle tech, which they will.
Ukraine is watching the heavy bombers load up at their airbase, so let's see if Russia has the mental capacity to guard them or wait until a sabotage group blows up some planes. Something to watch
This has been your neofeudalfuture war news summary thank you for reading and stay classy San Diego.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Nov 29 2022 20:09 utc | 7
Since I often turn to Consortium News for information on the Ukraine conflict, I figure this isn't off-topic.
https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/consortiumnews.com?www=1
For some reason the site is down today and one wonders whether it's a technical accident or targeted action by the Evil Empire.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 29 2022 20:13 utc | 8
Russia warns Uncle Scam that deeper involvement in Ukraine is fraught with risks
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 29 2022 20:24 utc | 9
this post needs to be read by others.. it was at the end of the previous open ukraine thread... thanks poster 600w...
"Russia is forced to take military action against Ukraine. Ukraine is a failed state. It has been racist since 2014. This anti-Russian racism is promoted by its supporters. In addition, there has been a massive population and capital exodus. Only the armed forces have been invested in. In order to continue to secure at least this support, the fate of Ukraine was tied to US geostrategic interests.
For experienced observers of world events, it was therefore already questionable in 2014 why Russia did not intervene during the Maidan coup. The development of Ukraine was foreseeable and resembled the emergence of the Third Reich. The SA/Right Sector seized the Strasser by force and allowed its supporters access to power that could not have been won by way of democratic elections, which were due in 2014.
Afterwards, the profiteers got rid of those thugs who could not be controlled or even sought undesirable redistribution of the oligarchs' wealth. The press and radio were brought into line, the opposition banned and persecuted. The seizure of Crimea was Russia's logical consequence to protect its strategic security interests from the delusional Ukrainian leadership. Ukraine then escalated further along its intellectual one-way street. Russia, however, could not bring itself to a complete solution to the problem. As Porochenko explained, Minsk1 and Minsk2 saved the coup government.
Then Ukraine continued to escalate domestically. After arming the Ukrainian army, it began to prepare its deployment. Russia made a last attempt to reach a diplomatic solution. This did not succeed, as the USA had other interests and so did Ukraine. The consequence continues to this day. Why is that? The support of Ukraine by the USA and the Nato mob has made a quick resolution of the conflict in Russia's favour more difficult. Russia likes to fight this war as much as you like to kill your beloved dog when it has rabies. Russia's military is not of the size, nor the doctrine, to conquer large land masses. First and foremost, it has to secure a huge national territory, with a budget that is ridiculously small compared to that of NATO.
The USA also tries to dominate the international relations of states. Russia has little to counter this media and propaganda power. Concentrating an army of 2-3 million men on the Ukrainian border would not have gone unnoticed in terms of reconnaissance. It could also have been a temptation for Nato to weaken Russia's defence potential with a first strike. So for now they have sunk in and are clawing their way in, conserving their own resources and depleting those of the enemy.
Russia must coordinate its actions in such a way that a further escalation by Nato can be countered.
The destruction of Ukraine within one day is still considered possible by the US leadership. The fact that it has not happened so far also reveals a lot about Russia's goals. There have also been no attacks on NATO states, although their actions clearly violate the principle of neutrality. Nato is a party to the war. It has only been spared so far because an appropriate reaction by Russia would open up the Third World War. The European governments in particular are not behaving very responsibly towards their voters, as they are risking security and prosperity in order to serve the USA in a leading role in its project of world domination. For me, Russia is the fire brigade in a city, trying to achieve maximum benefit with limited fire-fighting resources, while the pyromaniac USA looks where it can safely do further damage. As long as the US exists in its current form, the world will have to live with the problem. Ukraine, however, will soon be history. The conflict, in its constructed senselessness, is an expression of the West's helplessness to live in a socially sustainable way.
Posted by: 600w | Nov 29 2022 19:51 utc | 271"
Posted by: james | Nov 29 2022 20:27 utc | 10
Posted by: Zanon | Nov 29 2022 20:05 utc | 6
What it really means is:
a) The US has a window of a few months to get firm orders for Patriot systems before they are proven not to meet modern battlefield requirements.
b) We will be subject to more Ukrainian "math" where 45 of 50 missiles are reported intercepted, yet 35 targets are hit.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Nov 29 2022 20:32 utc | 11
Posted by: Zanon | Nov 29 2022 20:05 utc | 6
PAC-3 has a very poor track record. It was designed to shoot down straight flying SCUD-missiles in 1970-80s. The Russians have been knocking out NASAMs radars with their own anti-radiation missiles already, usually during the larger long range strikes. PAC-3 is probably even inferior.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 29 2022 20:33 utc | 12
@5
Yep, the Ukro-Nazis have a "parsley massacre" vibe to them.
Needless to say randomly killing people on suspicion, isnt a sign of winning. They'll only get worse as defeat looms...
Posted by: Urban Fox | Nov 29 2022 20:39 utc | 13
james | Nov 29 2022 20:27 utc | 10
Looks like someone else does a it of thinking. With the Russian partial mobilization, most american type thinkers believe Russia will go on a mighty offensive that will end the war in Ukraine.
I cannot see why Russia would want to end a good think. This is bleeding the EU white. EU is starting to realize that while they have been watching Russia, their economy has been destroyed and US is now looting what is left.
All Russia has to do is constantly look like it is on the verge of defeat and EU and NATO will destroy themselves in Ukraine. Perhaps Russia will clear the Donbas in the winter or perhaps it will withdraw a bit to ensure the EU continues to be sucked into the black hole of Ukraine.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 29 2022 20:51 utc | 14
Zanon@6:
Oh yeah, Patriot missiles, that is a big winner for the ukies💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩
Posted by: morongobill | Nov 29 2022 21:00 utc | 15
Posted by: OohCanada | Nov 29 2022 19:36 utc | 1
Unlike WW2 nazis and collaborators who got it "easy" as video recordings were rare and filtered (censored) over the years to hide the truth, what happens now is thoroughly preserved and available to masses instantly.
Historians of the future will not have too much trouble finding video connections between nazi killings and their sponsors in all these western countries.
Just like sparsely recorded Korea was US's great fight and "victory" yet higly recorded Vietnam was huge defeat and psychological drama.
Posted by: Abe | Nov 29 2022 21:08 utc | 16
morongobill💩
Yes apparently...as I said:
Russia's Medvedev warns NATO over supplying Ukraine with Patriot systems
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-medvedev-warns-nato-over-supplying-ukraine-with-patriot-systems-2022-11-29/
Posted by: Zanon | Nov 29 2022 21:14 utc | 17
Anyone know anything about this? I'd never heard of it.
https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/11/29/ukraine-first-operator-precision-bomb/
Ukraine is poised to become the first operator of Boeing’s ground-launched small-diameter bomb (GLSDB) that can hit targets up to 150 kilometers (93 miles) away.The US is reportedly considering sending the long-range precision bomb to Kyiv to help counter Russian offensives.
The GLSDB would allow Ukrainian troops to strike far behind Russian lines, reducing the possibility of being counterattacked.
It would also enable defending soldiers to hit valuable Russian military targets previously out of reach.
The US has repeatedly rejected requests to send the 300-kilometer (186-mile) Army Tactical Missile System to Kyiv over fears of provoking a wider war with Russia.
Instead, Washington is considering the smaller-range GLSDB to address Ukraine’s request for long-range weapons.
The long-range missile could be delivered to the war-torn nation by 2023, according to documents obtained by Reuters.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 29 2022 21:16 utc | 18
reply to 3
With all these Ukrainians being trained elsewhere, are some of them running away? That's what happened with Afghanis.
Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 29 2022 21:16 utc | 19
Why are Ukrainians so highly motivated?
I ask myself, watching how they eageryi die in waves.
I think they still believe that by supporting NATO and even dying for The West is higher motive then defending Ukraine, even defending their separate identity.
I talked with one of them. He believes that Russians in the past "prevented them to become part of the West, as a superior civilization.
So, Ukrainians are dying for a dream of belonging to a higher and more superior civilization.
Posted by: margo | Nov 29 2022 21:21 utc | 20
@ Peter AU1 | Nov 29 2022 20:51 utc | 14
lol... i am sorta looking at this much like you.. russia is in no hurry here and why should they be? the west is doing itself in.. i suppose it is fun to consider the many ways this fiasco can be interpreted. at the same time i think surprises can come along to alter the direction of all of this.. i mostly see this like the article that karlof1 left yesterday..i link to it here again in case you or others missed it..
World Order Z: The Irreversibility of Change and Prospects for Survival
the other article to go with this is here -
We are witnessing the birth of a new world monetary order
this is really all about finances as i see it... an old order is giving way to a new order and the transition is not pretty.. thus we have this war at this particular time... it couldn't happen in 2014...all those blaming russia for not resolving it in 2014 don't have the full insight of russias positional change from 2014 to 2022... at the same time i believe this transition will not be an easy one.. i suspect this war will continue for longer then everyone wants and it may be just as you suggest - russia wanting to drag it out for its own benefit and protection... thanks for your input at moa peter...
Posted by: james | Nov 29 2022 21:29 utc | 21
Russia is finding other customers for it's resources. They don't need EU customers anymore.
The customers for EU goods will have to find other suppliers because EU industry is shutting down.
If sanctions are lifted, those customers have new supply and Russ has new customers will they shift back to the EU? I doubt it. Too much trouble unless deep discounts.
It will take a long time for the EU to get back where it was.
It has also shown itself unreliable. Any little thing might shut down it's industry.
I think a lot of the damage is near permanent.
I've said for years: Russia doesn't need anything the West provides. Sanctions spur development in Russia and make it stronger.
Russians have been through a lot. They don't GAF if McDonald's leaves. In fact it's better because the new analogue is Russian owned.
Lesson of history is don't mess with the Russians.
This war is a result of corruption in the West. Particularly the US.
Posted by: Rabbit | Nov 29 2022 21:37 utc | 22
BTW, new inductees from Russ should start arriving in Donbass today or tomorrow.
Lot of dead because EU wouldn't stand up for Minsk 2.
Now look at them. Rubbing ice cubes together to stay warm.
Posted by: Rabbit | Nov 29 2022 21:43 utc | 23
james@21, thank you for re-posting the WOZ. the previous links posted for some arcane reason i couldn't get to connect yesterday. yours thankfully has been bookmarked. thank you also for the 600w, repost. agreed, very good post deserving full attention. to 600w, i believe, as many have previously said, that russia in 2014 was not yet ready to take on nato, & she knew that's what it meant. she went into syria, reclaimed Crimea as you said, bt more would've overextended her. weapons were on the way, if not yet war tested, she was preparing for the sanctions bt not entirely self sufficient. thank you again, 600 & james, & peterau1 as always stay safe & well, we need you.
Posted by: emersonreturn | Nov 29 2022 21:49 utc | 24
EU has some serious economy problems, and soon social problems. Electricity prices have shot back up again in the last couple of days and it isn't winding enough, so very anemic wind power output. This thing is crashing and is way beyond Ursula VDL's paygrade or intellectual capacity. Now a few million refugees from Ukraine will speed up things a lot, too.
"◾️Economic activity in Europe has collapsed to a minimum, - European Round Table of Industrialists
▪️Economic activity in Europe collapsed amid worsening energy crisis, record inflation and anti-Russian sanctions, the effect of which was not as expected, states the European Round Table of Industrialists (ERT)
▪️The ERT survey showed that 87% of European entrepreneurs do not expect the economic situation to improve. At the same time, 71% believe that the deterioration of the economic situation will occur in a particular industry.
▪️32% of European CEOs plan to cut production, 15% to close their businesses
- According to Bloomberg, Western sanctions against Russia will end in a chaotic failure West.
◾️Source: https://ert.eu/documents/ceo-confidence-drops-to-an-all-time-low-in-h2-2022/
◾️Follow:
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses"
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 29 2022 21:54 utc | 25
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 29 2022 21:54 utc | 25
EU is essentially turning into a failure in many similar aspects as Ukraine. But without a war.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 29 2022 21:58 utc | 26
I think there is one thing missing as yet. Russia's allies. She still has no allies. I feel that's because all those who cheer her on because full of hostility towards what the USA and the west has and does do to them are as yet not certain of Russia's eventual victory.
They don't want to back a horse that might yet lose.
It will all be over and a new world order officially on deck the minute they decide to publicly throw in their support with troops if necessary with Russia.
India, Africa, China.. etc. - virtually the whole world. They stop short of it. Let them declare they are willing to manufacture weapons and ammunition for Russia, supplies, military equipment and even supply troops if necessary and then it will truly be all over.
The future of the world, I feel, belongs with them right now. Not EU, not USA, not NATO, not Russia, not Ukraine... but them. With them. They are literally the elephant in the room.
Duncan Idaho @ 4
Ukraine’s 2030 World Cup bid likely dead after country’s FA chief arrested
Used to be a time when you'd come across too obvious or crazy stuff and say to yourself, "you can't make this shit up"! Now, it's everything you read.
Like Oryx & Crake the apocalypse will be ridiculous.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 29 2022 22:03 utc | 28
EU is essentially turning into a failure in many similar aspects as Ukraine. But without a war.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 29 2022 21:58 utc | 26
What was Hemingways bankruptcy observation.
It starts little by little.
Then happens all at once.
That's Europe's path culturally and economically.
And heading for the last bit .
Posted by: jpc | Nov 29 2022 22:09 utc | 30
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 29 2022 21:16 utc | 18
See, this is why Russia screwed up by not completely eliminating every single Ukrainian S-300 and Buk AD on day one. Ukraine had 250 S-300's and 72 Buks. It should have been easy to take every one of them out on day one, their positions identified by Russian ISR before the war.
Now Russia has to husband its air attacks out of fear of losing an expensive bomber or fighter-bomber to Ukrainian AD. This means it cannot use its air assets to attack Ukrainian long-range artillery and other major ground assets, except by launching long-range missiles from the air instead of simply gravity-bombing the crap out of them (the same applies to tanks, and masses of Ukrainian troops when they are protected by S-300 or Buks.)
This slows the progress of the war. Bakhmut has been fought over for four months. It could have been bombed to smithereens in a week using Russian strategic and fighter bombers. The earlier excuse that "Russia doesn't want to kill Ukrainian civilians" doesn't hold for a town like Bakhmut which is mostly a Ukrainian fortress with few civilians left. Most of the Ukrainian towns fought over in this conflict have had most of their civilians driven out anyway eventually.
I don't think Russia made many mistakes in this war, but, along with not reinforcing the west Kherson bridgehead, leaving some of Ukraine's S-300s intact was definitely one of them. Not that it will alter the outcome of the war, but the war could have been prosecuted more quickly with heaver air power use, especially on the Donbass fortifications and also on the transfer of Ukrainian forces to the front.
Scott Ritter said in the Consortium News video I watched yesterday that WWII was fought initially by US troops who didn't want to be there. I can testify from my Vietnam experience that the same was true there. However, Ritter said eventually after several campaigns, the US forces got pissed off and were more than willing to kill Germans. I suspect the same was true of WWII Russians. He said the Russians today were finally at that point, ready to trash Ukraine and get it over with. It's too bad that it took nine months to get there.
As Navy SEAL Richard Marcinko once said, "Always treat the enemy as your enemy because he will invariably treat you that way."
He also said, "The second rule of SpecWar is: Never give a sucker an even break....You never stop moving; never give up any space. Don't allow the opposition any
edge at all."
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 29 2022 22:48 utc | 31
Ukraine used to fire Himars missiles at the Kakhovka dam, upstream of Kherson. After the Russian withdrawal from Kherson, this seems to have stopped. So the plan was breaking the dam and flooding Kherson all along. Right?
Posted by: Passerby | Nov 29 2022 23:04 utc | 32
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 29 2022 22:48 utc | 31
Re. air defense you are probably right. That's one major thing bugging about this whole war.
Ukraine AD has very small effectiveness against cruise missiles, or even strike drones which are hard to track by radar, but their largest effect comes from the simple deterrence, and uncertainty of their location and coverage, of using CAS aircraft at or rear of the front lines and forcing reliance on long range standoff weapons. They do the job, but it takes away a lot of efficiency that good 'ol strategic bombing would offer in several cases.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 29 2022 23:08 utc | 33
As Navy SEAL Richard Marcinko once said, "Always treat the enemy as your enemy because he will invariably treat you that way."
He also said, "The second rule of SpecWar is: Never give a sucker an even break....You never stop moving; never give up any space. Don't allow the opposition any
edge at all."
Taking advice from puffed up yanks is no use. The Russians are just gonna exterminate the Ukies now.
Posted by: Wokechoke | Nov 29 2022 23:18 utc | 34
2030 World Cup for Ukraine?
Even oil rich Saudi is considering a joint bid with Egypt and Greece.
A sole Ukraine bid? From whence the $$€€£¥¥? Where How much does FIFA want to have to contingency with, say Germany and Poland (and who else?) having to actually deliver the venues ?
Eurovision 2022….aaand of course Ukraine wins.. and should thus host 2023.
But “can’t meet commitments due to “security concerns”. BBC picked it up, and Liverpool is the host venue
FIFA is smarting from the criticism of (political) decision to select Qatar.
Do they really want to risk the prestige of their brand in the sewer of Ukraine?
Just how political is Eurovision? Hmm>
Since the introduction of the semi-final round in 2004, Ukraine is the only country outside of the "Big Five" to have qualified for the final of every contest they have competed in,
Eurovision scraps jury voting in semi-finals
Nov 22. “The move comes after it was discovered that six juries traded votes at this year's contest in Turin, Italy.(https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-63716398.amp)
“……Those jury votes were discounted………In the end, the contest was won by Ukraine's Kalush Orchestra, with the UK's Sam Ryder taking second place.”
[so very convenient UK was second and could step in as host]
Last sentence:”Russia was expelled from this year's event after its invasion of Ukraine; and its suspension will continue in 2023.”
LOL. OT. But probably not. While at the BBC page noticed:
And the Word of the Year is “gaslighting”
(Are they saying the quiet part out loud)
“When British playwright Patrick Hamilton wrote Gas Light in 1938, little did he know how often the word would be used in the 21st Century.
Merriam-Webster, America's oldest dictionary publisher, has just chosen "gaslighting" as its word of the year.
“Gaslighting is the act or practice of grossly misleading someone, especially for one's own advantage.
"In this age of misinformation - of 'fake news', conspiracy theories, Twitter trolls, and deep fakes - gaslighting has emerged as a word for our time," Merriam-Webster said in a statement on Monday.
Curiously, search interest in the word was not driven by any single event, the company's editor-at-large told the Associated Press.
"It was a word looked up frequently every single day of the year," Peter Sokolowski told the US wire service.
“Gaslighting derives its origins from Hamilton's Victorian-era play set in London about a middle-class marriage based on lies and deceit.
Lead character Jack Manningham seeks to convince his wife Bella that she is going insane, including by saying she is imagining the dimming of the gas light in their home. [LOL. / EU]
But as Merriam-Webster notes, while the term referred primarily to psychological manipulation in the 20th Century, its modern use is driven by "the vast increase in channels and technologies used to mislead" people, especially in personal and political contexts.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 29 2022 23:22 utc | 35
I think Russia made two mistakes - the first in 2014 (as admitted by VP) in not at least helping to take Mariupol and trusting the Europeans to be faithful partners in working out a peaceful solution. The second was in believing in February that there would actually be someone to negotiate with, and so they held back from the full on attack on infrastructure they were capable of.
I think these are related and due to the inability to conceive how far Ukraine had drifted (been pulled and subverted actually) from Russia. In 2014 Russia was still completely fine with an independent Ukraine as they didn't understand how insidious and effective the US MO was in it's unrelenting efforts to turn Ukraine into a Russia-hating base to do with as they chose. They still believed Ukraine was essentially part of Russia. Likely the main contacts were with Ukrainian oligarchs like Yanukovitch who believed they could straddle the fence, and were either duplicitous or naive in their stance toward Russia and their understanding of US objectives. Now they will be forced to destroy the Ukrainian state and pick up what they can from the wreckage, and this is a very bitter pill to swallow.
Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 29 2022 23:23 utc | 36
So the plan was breaking the dam and flooding Kherson all along. Right?
Passerby | Nov 29 2022 23:04 utc | 32
Probably. It’s the UK U$ way. I read the last “dam buster” died at age 101 this month.
Thought… “dam busting is heroic… when we do it”
Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 29 2022 23:25 utc | 37
@ Passerby | Nov 29 2022 23:04 utc | 32
Ukraine used to fire Himars missiles at the Kakhovka dam, upstream of Kherson. . . .So the plan was breaking the dam and flooding Kherson all along. Right?
Bridges were targeted, and the Nova Kakhovka Bridge is adjacent to the Kakhovka dam.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 29 2022 23:39 utc | 38
Ukraine used to fire Himars missiles at the Kakhovka dam, upstream of Kherson. After the Russian withdrawal from Kherson, this seems to have stopped. So the plan was breaking the dam and flooding Kherson all along. Right?Posted by: Passerby | Nov 29 2022 23:04 utc | 32
Seems like it, and that would justify the retreat - if the dam collapsed, it would be a biblical calamity, and would also make the area impassable for years (it would turn into a big muddy swamp).
But it still not quite justified because it could have been easily prevented.
The thing is that if there should be no situation in which such blackmail works on a state with the firepower of Russia, period.
You tell them from the start that if firing at the dam continues, then the governmental buildings, headquarters, bunkers with Zelensky, Zaluzhny, and other high command, Bandera statues in Lvov, etc. will be gone, at a 10:1 ratio for each shell fired (BTW, the same should have been regarding firing at civilians in the Donbass, but it wasn't).
The Russians are perfectly capable of it technically, and frankly, a lot of these targets (military high command in particular) should have been evaporated a long time ago regardless of what the Ukrainians done, this is War 101 stuff.
And you announce this publicly so that there is no doubt about it.
Let's see if they keep bombing the dam after e.g. the Rada in Kiev and then Zaluzhny are turned into dust.
But that was never done, the Russians allowed that blackmail to be successfully carried out, and here we are.
Posted by: Tbx | Nov 29 2022 23:39 utc | 39
the pessimist @ 36
I think Russia made two mistakes
Russia made one mistake, breaking up the USSR the way it did, it's lucky to have got out alive and in one piece though that's not determined yet. What it should have done back then is transition slowly, Chinese style, playing the USA for fools gathering up their technology, industry, and money then once strong and secure rubbing it in their face investing their dollar reserves "the USA's money" in a million man army and in the soft power Belt & Road Initiative. Hindsight is 20/20.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 29 2022 23:41 utc | 40
margo | Nov 29 2022 21:21 utc | 20 "Why are Ukrainians so highly motivated?
I ask myself, watching how they eageryi die in waves."
Captagon, speed, methamphetamines whatever is in the bags of pills the get equipped with. In Mariupol, Azov were on the injectables as well as pills.
In the trenches of the regular military it was mostly bags of red pills. When Russian forces were taking a lot of ground, there was always video showing the pills and empty packs.
chemical courage plus nazi punisher units behind them.
Same as in Syria. The headchoppers were all stoked on captagon. Brainwashing plus chemically altering the mind. Makes excelent cannon fodder for empire.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 29 2022 23:42 utc | 41
How comes that European mind in philosophical sense became so degraded, emptied?
Is it just mass consumption?
Is it long term effect of capitalism?
Or is it mass media?
Look at Germany, or France, or Italy.
There is nothing, there is nothing any more.
Just emptiness, the empty space ready to swallow any ideological concept from Hollywood, any order from Washington related to Ukraine.
Europeans are no-people, less then animals?
No self respect, even no self interest.
But, how could that happened so fast and efficient?
Posted by: margo | Nov 29 2022 23:46 utc | 42
james @10--
Thanks for reposting that. I see the weather remains just above 0c for the next several weeks for most locations except Kiev which is forecast to be just under 0c. I see writers are making the mistake of saying Ukraine only became a problem for Russia in 2014 which isn't at all the case. Ukraine became a problem as soon as the USSR imploded, and IMO was actually a problem well before then thanks to corruption. Again, too many think the Kleptocrats only emerged in 1991/92, which is false. Corruption within USSR was a problem from Day 1 and worsened as the Political Class turned into the Nomenklatura and became the equivalent of Capitalism's Robber Barons. That's one of the major reasons why Western media assumes Putin is corrupt because all those who came before were. IMO, corruption is a form of treason and ought to be punished as such. And corruption isn't limited to things that have a monetary value. Information as we've seen so much can be corrupted to the point of causing millions of deaths. That's why I view trolls as vile, and those I call sophisticated trolls are by far the worst (Martyanov's rant a few days ago at presstitutes I heartily endorsed).
On an OT note to you, we'll be in Seattle 12/1-2 for Marcus Miller's show at Jazz Alley. Ciao!
I think Russia made two mistakes - the first in 2014 (as admitted by VP) in not at least helping to take Mariupol and trusting the Europeans to be faithful partners in working out a peaceful solution. The second was in believing in February that there would actually be someone to negotiate with, and so they held back from the full on attack on infrastructure they were capable of. Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 29 2022 23:23 utc | 36
Not taking Mariupol in 2014 has cascading disastrous effects to this day.
What happened early in the SMO? The land bridge had to be secured, and that meant taking Mariupol. But the Ukronazis were holed up in there and it took two months.
Those were the two most critical months, when progress elsewhere slowed down while the Mariupol operation was completed, because insufficient forces were allocated overall and there wasn't enough for more than that.
So instead of closing the big Donbass cauldron that was being talked about early on, the Russians got bogged down doing urban warfare in Mariupol. Which was the goal of the Ukrainian resistance there, and it was achieved.
Meanwhile Ukrainians mobilized and western weapons started flowing in.
It is still not clear to me what prevented a simple encirclement and a siege while continuing to push elsewhere, but I am neither a military expert nor do I have access to internal Russian military info, so what do I know.
But the empirical results are obvious to everyone - while Mariupol was eventually taken, in the medium term it was a win on the Ukrainians, and the negative effects of it are still felt to this day.
Also, the way it was taken - it was largely destroyed - and the billions that will now have to be spent on rebuilding it seem to have cooled off the Kremlin's enthusiasm for any further operations involving taking large cities by force. And there are several dozens of those left on the list...
All this comes downstream from the disastrous decision to abandon the city in 2014.
P.S. Same applies to the rest of the Donbass. We talk a lot about the fortifications, but often in a way that leaves the impression that such fortifications can be built anywhere. Not at all true. In WWII both sides had major trouble taking the Donbass because the nature of it - dense urban agglomeration that is also highly industrialized - makes it perfect for turning it into a fortress. So had serious action been taken in 2014 and had the Ukronazis been pushed to beyond the Slavyansk-Kramatorsk-Pokrovsk-Mariupol line, it would have been much harder for them to build such impenetrable fortifications. It's empty flat agricultural fields all the way to the river after that -- sure, you can build trenches and pillboxes, but you don't have the cities and factories to anchor those, and you will be rolled over eventually much more easily than in the core Donbass region.
P.P.S. Imagine the DNR and LNR were left even without the support that they did receive and the war (which was going to start inevitably) started at the 2013 Russian border and the whole of the Donbass had to be taken. Putin recently said something like "What is happening now is inevitable and had we waited, we would have to still fight this war but from a much more unfavorable for us position". Yeah, no s***. But the same applies if you run the tape backwards in time - the current position is more unfavorable than the one in 2014 was, and it was needlessly made more unfavorable than it had to be by not going in properly from the start and not mobilizing on time
Posted by: Tbx | Nov 29 2022 23:57 utc | 44
I doubt seriously whether the patriot will be effective in Ukraine; it certainly was not effective in Gulf war I when bush senior bragged that it knocked down some 43 saddam scuds fired into Israeli targets and the Israeli strongly disagreed, indeed they flew for meetings with bush to discuss alternative solutions; saudis also found them to be ineffective against housi scuds.
Of course, they may have been upgraded and it certainly depends upon the targets against which they will be deployed. But as is the case, the us technology has been vastly over sold.
Posted by: Taras 77 | Nov 30 2022 0:03 utc | 45
@Tbx | Nov 29 2022 23:57 utc | 44
In defense of Russian hesitancy in 2014 I don't believe they were prepared at that point to weather the international fallout from an overt military intervention. They did assist, but most of the fighting was done by local forces. Also, as I said above, I think they sincerely believed that Ukraine could be 'fixed' as an independent, non-hostile state - it made such perfect economic and social sense for it to take that path...
Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 30 2022 0:07 utc | 46
But, how could that happened so fast and efficient?
Posted by: margo | Nov 29 2022 23:46 utc | 42
---
https://youtu.be/Nyvxt1svxso?t=70
Also applies to Europe.
Posted by: Nobody | Nov 30 2022 0:09 utc | 47
How comes that European mind in philosophical sense became so degraded, emptied? Is it just mass consumption? Is it long term effect of capitalism? Or is it mass media? Look at Germany, or France, or Italy. There is nothing, there is nothing any more. Just emptiness, the empty space ready to swallow any ideological concept from Hollywood, any order from Washington related to Ukraine. Europeans are no-people, less then animals? No self respect, even no self interest. But, how could that happened so fast and efficient? Posted by: margo | Nov 29 2022 23:46 utc | 42
How do we know it was all that different in the past?
Sure, we had some peasant rebellions in the Middle Ages, but mostly the average person put up with ruthless exploitation without much resistance.
And then in the 20th century we had, first, WWI in which the youth was sent on suicide missions to die in the millions with absolutely no sense to it all. For that every single member of the elites should have met his end no later than 1915, in the hands of the masses rising in revolt against those sending them to industrial slaughter for the purpose of their petty internal fighting games.
Yet nothing of the sort happened in Western Europe. It only happened in Eastern Europe.
Then you had WWII. On one hand you have the German masses, who in the span of less than a decade were turned into willing executioners of the largest genocidal program in the history of humanity. How did that happen just like that? Then on the other hand you had all the other countries in Western Europe that they conquered, where "resistance" was measured in days and even hours (compared to e.g. half a million partisans in Yugoslavia), i.e. there was really none at all. Again, how did that happen?
So when you look at it like that, I don't see all that much out of the historic norm in Europe.
The big change is the degeneration of the elites.
Posted by: Tbx | Nov 30 2022 0:09 utc | 48
#27 abrogard
I had to read your post several times to try and figure out why you think Russia has no allies.
With the BRICS, the SCO and the numerous individual economic and trade alliances it has with neighbouring countries, I must admit I was puzzled by such an assertion.
And then I understood that you meant military alliances.
Even there you have a problem.
The overt support from Belorussia and Chechnya would seem solid. The alliance with the Wagner group seems more solid than the loose collection of mercenaries that Ukraine, NATO and the Pentagon have been able to assemble.
This is one of the issues that have been highlighted by this conflict.
Russia does not need military alliances with other powers, Putin has spent his time building up the Russian military, and making economic and low key military alliances with bordering states.
That Chechnya is an ally now is testament to his negotiating skills.
On the other hand, the US and NATO have allowed their military strength to get depleted to such an extent that Britain couldn't fill Wembley with their current army.
The only war Ukraine is winning is the propaganda war, and they are only winning that in western Europe and North America.
On every other level, Ukraine is fu##ed.
Posted by: Orchard1 | Nov 30 2022 0:12 utc | 49
@Peter AU1...
I think you are spot-on with your analysis....
"I cannot see why Russia would want to end a good think. This is bleeding the EU white. EU is starting to realize that while they have been watching Russia, their economy has been destroyed and US is now looting what is left.
All Russia has to do is constantly look like it is on the verge of defeat and EU and NATO will destroy themselves in Ukraine."
very soul destroying but correct....
In the meantime of-course mafia extortion/weapon sales/human trafficking will
increase exponentially....the sad ukrainian victims will be dying in the streets....
starved,raped,organ harvested and frozen.
Walking to the border to me seems utter nonesense.
there will be fields of bodies.
If the russians invade properly in three or four weeks...on solid frozen ground
they will be the saviours of the average ukrainian.
prison camps will be formed for the enemy combatants...but at least they will be fed
and "safe"...until their previous behaviour has been investigated.
The general populace will then be returned to their homes and utility repairs established.
Ukraine will become totally russian...right upto the Polish border
There will be no invasion from NATO/USA...all utter rubbish.
As for a nuclear exchange....BS.
Posted by: harryash | Nov 30 2022 0:18 utc | 50
A source quoted by John Helmer seems eminently plausible: “I cannot see Russians risking massive armoured movements or repeating their March manoeuvres. I believe the General Staff will wage the electricity war and put pressure on Kiev and on Europe while continuing a slow, inch-by-inch movement in Donbass. General Patience is more important than General Winter. Those two are on a par with General Iskander taking out electric substations and transport corridors. Putin will only come under pressure if he puts himself under pressure to take territory and takes thousands of casualties in the process. He does not want this. The General Staff does not want this. They have made this explicitly clear. So they have come up with new forms of warfare. Just how new these are hasn’t dawned yet in Kiev or Washington or Brussels.”
Then Helmer adds:
"This is not positional warfare by Russian forces, all sources agree. But the outcome of highly mobile deployments (known as РЕЙД – 'reyd' – in Russian military terminology) will be geographical."
Posted by: Maracatu | Nov 30 2022 0:19 utc | 51
LightYearsFromHome @40--
Russia, the nation, didn't make any mistakes. Those holding power chose treason. See my comment @43. The peoples of the USSR suffered immensely with as many dying as in the Great Patriotic War. Then there was the rape of resources by the Plunderers. I was fortunate to have access to specialist publications from 1992-96 that allowed me to have an insider's view of what was being done to Russia and Russians--millions died while Clintonites, Yeltsin and the Kleptocrats laughed and laughed. When Yeltsin attacked the Duma in 1993, I knew he was just another Yankee comprador. I was very surprised he wasn't eliminated before he resigned.
Putin has authored much of Russia's resurgence, but he's had lots of help. Today, Putin presided over a seminal event for Russia, the Tenth All-Russian Anniversary Congress of Judges, which has a new challenge--establishing Russian courts throughout the liberated areas. As usual, a great deal can be learned from reading the transcript of the proceedings. Russia's foundational laws/constitution remain in flux as what's unsuitable is discovered and expunged and what's needed is added. Putin's meeting with the Chairman of the Supreme Court Vyacheslav Lebedev is likewise also educational.
Russia like China are Civilizational Nations yet are also developing nations whose potentials are feared by the Plunderers, so the latter attack them. Fortunately, Russia and China are a team and have been so since 2001; one of Putin's first acts was to cement the Treaty of Friendship with China. At the time, did Putin think events would occur as they have? Given his initial moves, no. Is Putin satisfied now? I doubt it. He just mentioned some of his hindsight misgivings publicly. How many leaders are willing to be that open? Very few.
(known as РЕЙД – 'reyd' – in Russian military terminology)
Posted by: Maracatu | Nov 30 2022 0:19 utc | 51
---
(known as Дед Мороз - 'Santa' - in Russian military terminology)
FFS. :D
Posted by: Nobody | Nov 30 2022 0:34 utc | 53
In defense of Russian hesitancy in 2014 I don't believe they were prepared at that point to weather the international fallout from an overt military intervention. They did assist, but most of the fighting was done by local forces. Also, as I said above, I think they sincerely believed that Ukraine could be 'fixed' as an independent, non-hostile state - it made such perfect economic and social sense for it to take that path...Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 30 2022 0:07 utc | 46
First, whether the whole of the LDNR was secured or not would have made absolutely no difference with respect to the international fallout. The big item there was the annexation of Crimea. Mariupol is a place the vast majority of the rest of the world has never heard of (also, it was called Zhdanov for half a century too, during the time most people in positions of power today were growing up, and that doesn't help with awareness of it either), and Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, Severodonetsk and Lysychansk are on the scale of Russia itself tiny places that even many in Russia aren't aware of.
Second, that Ukraine cannot exist as an independent, non-hostile state should have been obvious since the early 1990s. And it was in fact obvious to many in Russia. There was a video circulating some time ago of Eduard Limonov (who is a bit crazy, but that is irrelevant here, his insight on the matter was prescient) talking about how there will be a war like in Yugoslavia. That video was from 1992:
https://twitter.com/NinaByzantina/status/1580565535288307712
It had been known where things are headed for a very long time. One would have to be a complete idiot to think they could be steered in a different direction peacefully.
For two reasons:
First, there is no such thing as "Ukraine" as a natural entity, and certainly not in its current borders. You might put it together from Galicia and Volynia plus Zhytomyr and Vinnytsia, and have it be a slightly bigger version of Moldova, but that's about it. And it would always be militantly anti-Russian because that is the whole basis of its existence - if it is not anti-Russian, then what is it? There is no answer to that question. But in the borders it was given during Soviet times, it is even worse - you have an Ukrainian minority that has to somehow convert the Russian-speaking majority into the same militant anti-Russian mindset it has, or it will be assimilated itself. After which the purpose of the existence of Ukraine of course becomes doubtful.
BTW, this is what happened in Belarus - Lukashenko took power in 1994 and nipped in the bud whatever nascent Belarussian nationalism there might have been there (which never had the history and deep Nazi roots of the Ukrainian one to begin with, as no part of it had ever been part of Germany or Austro-Hungary), as a result right now everyone there speaks Russian, and it is not at all clear what the purpose of Belarus existing as a separate state from Russia is.
Second, when Putin took power, his first major task was to reign in the oligarchs. For there would have been no positive development without subjugating the oligarchs to the state. That the relationship was the other way around is a major reason why the 90s were such a disaster, and it is also the major reason why the West is degenerating as it is ever since the neoliberal revolution of the 1970s. Ukrainian oligarchs saw what is happening and got seriously scared that they are next in line. Which is why you really see the place turn into Banderistan on an accelerated trajectory only after the mid-00s - in the 1990s that stuff was still marginal. It was only later on that the local oligarchs needed to cut off the connection with Russia in order to preserve their own power so they invested heavily in nationalism, and also sold out to the West as a platform for NATO military action against Russia.
For those reasons, the "independent, non-hostile state" neither made any sense nor was it ever in the cards.
Again, this was all obvious to everyone following the events at the time, so what kind of morons were inhabiting the Kremlin to not see it or not act on it on time?
Posted by: Tbx | Nov 30 2022 0:35 utc | 54
[12] PAC-3 has a very poor track record
What do the Saudi's say? They keep buying it. As does the UAE.
The Pac 3-1 was a mid 1990's design. A few years after the Gulf War. It has had 4 versions -1, -2, -3, the latest (MSE) in 2014 or so.
Posted by: Bill Smith | Nov 30 2022 0:38 utc | 55
[31] See, this is why Russia screwed up by not completely eliminating every single Ukrainian S-300 and Buk AD on day one. Ukraine had 250 S-300's and 72 Buks. It should have been easy to take every one of them out on day one, their positions identified by Russian ISR before the war.
It's very difficult to locate SAM systems when their radars are off. It appears Ukraine was moving at least some of their systems around at the start of the war and the time between Russian ability to spot them and then hit them before they move is very limited.
Posted by: Bill Smith | Nov 30 2022 0:45 utc | 56
[31] See, this is why Russia screwed up by not completely eliminating every single Ukrainian S-300 and Buk AD on day one. Ukraine had 250 S-300's and 72 Buks. It should have been easy to take every one of them out on day one, their positions identified by Russian ISR before the war.
It's very difficult to locate SAM systems when their radars are off. It appears Ukraine was moving at least some of their systems around at the start of the war and the time between Russian ability to spot them and then hit them before they move is very limited.
Posted by: Bill Smith | Nov 30 2022 0:45 utc | 57
Orchard1 @49--
Russia's primary military alliance is the CSTO. Then there's the CIS. Most important is the Union State that marries Belarus and Russia, with the possibility of others to follow. The SCO has an anti-terrorism component that makes it a quasi-alliance. Its series of treaties and pacts with China and Iran as many have described go beyond mere military alliances. Several years ago, Patrushev told Occupied Palestine and the Outlaw US Empire that Iran was considered under Russia's nuclear umbrella. I could add more, but you asked about alliances.
"See, this is why Russia screwed up by not completely eliminating every single Ukrainian S-300 and Buk AD on day one. Ukraine had 250 S-300's and 72 Buks. It should have been easy to take every one of them out on day one, their positions identified by Russian ISR before the war."
If Russia could have done that, they would have done that, but it was beyond their capabilities. NATO fears those systems for a reason. Russia did indeed try, but failed.
Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 30 2022 0:55 utc | 59
@Tbx 45
On a point of order, the largest genocidal program in history is capitalism. The group experiencing:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Are the proletariate who are converted into serfs or eliminated.
Posted by: Hermit | Nov 30 2022 1:12 utc | 60
karlof1@52, thank you for your links & VK space. i too was aware of the 90s rape, & corruption prior & during. my deceased husband was a mathematician working on many papers with russian mathematicians, they met @ conferences, mostly in europe/middle east, sharing papers, ideas, as well he was invited to important russian conferences. in the 90s b/c things were so incredibly difficult & o/c the work was the most important thing for all involved, we worked hard & long to bring several out for tenured track jobs in new zealand, canada & italy. all were heartbroken to leave bt couldn't see how they could continue to stay. when last attending a conference in moscow & novosibrisk, we encountered physicists who b/c they hadn't been paid for over a year were being courted by various parties to sell precious materials & information. desperation was palpable in many discussions. i have never lost my love & respect for the russian mind or heart. when we arrived in novosibrisk there was one computer, the elevator could hold 2people & one bag. the conference was for 2000 mathematicians from everywhere. i looked @ my husband & asked how did they make it into space...he replied on the basis of duct tape & their minds. it's why our library holds 40 shelves of russian math books.
Posted by: emersonreturn | Nov 30 2022 1:16 utc | 61
a little bit from Gilbert Doctorow's most recent, as he and his wife are back in their apartment in St. Petersburg (from Brussels where they live) and he reports some strong initial impressions, among them the climate and freezing temperatures now that winter has set in:
https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2022/11/29/feet-on-the-ground-in-st-petersburg-first-impressions/
Feet on the ground in St Petersburg: first impressions
"...This is not to say that I have developed a soft place in my head for the Ukrainians and their government of murderers and thieves in Kiev. No, but I deeply regret the loss of life among civilians in Ukrainian cities as the entire energy grid there is reduced to rubble in the coming weeks.
The remaining young and prosperous Ukrainians will get in their cars and land at our doorstep in Brussels and elsewhere in the EU. I think of the splendid Jaguar with Ukrainian license plates that was briefly parked in front of my Brussels house a couple of times in the past few weeks.
But the old widows, the infirm, the young children in Ukrainian cities will die in droves in their unheated apartments and no one but propagandists playing to the EU leadership for more funds to be embezzled will take note...."
Posted by: michaelj72 | Nov 30 2022 1:22 utc | 62
Hat tip to Johnny Rotten at Martyanov's blog for this info from Maria Zakharova's Telegram:
Dmitry Peskov sent to the Foreign Ministry for clarification of all those who are interested in the reasons for postponing the meeting of the bilateral consultative commission of Russia and the United States on the Treaty on the Reduction and Limitation of Strategic Offensive Arms (START).Let me explain.
The decision of the Russian side to postpone to a later date the session of the Bilateral Consultative Commission (DCC), scheduled for November 29 - December 6 in Cairo, was made at the political level, taking into account the extremely negative situation in Russian-American relations, which was created by Washington and continues to steadily degrade.
In all areas, we note the highest level of toxicity and hostility on the part of Washington. Within the framework of the total hybrid war unleashed against us, almost every step of the United States in relation to Russia is subordinated to a pathological desire to harm our country wherever possible.
Such a situation could not but affect the sphere of arms control, which cannot be considered as something autonomous and existing in isolation from geopolitical realities. One would have to have a very peculiar logic to tell Russia about restraint, transparency, and predictability in military matters, while helping the Kiev regime kill our military and civilians in Russia's regions, providing increasingly destructive means of armed struggle, and sending U.S. trainers, advisers, and mercenaries to Ukraine.
As for the START Treaty itself, here we also note the constant attempts of the United States to "correct" the balance established by it and change it in its favor. This was manifested, in particular, in the completely illegitimate withdrawal by the American side from the account under the Treaty of a significant part of its strategic offensive arms, which Washington declared re-equipped or renamed so that they ceased to fall under the treaty definitions. We have been working with the Americans on this issue for a long time and in some ways have even made some progress, but the problem remains unresolved.
At the same time, it was clearly clear from the speeches of American officials that the US delegation was going to Cairo in order to push for the resumption of inspections, and not to discuss "Russian concerns". At the same time, the fact that the crisis in the functioning of the START inspection mechanism arose through the fault of the American side was stubbornly hushed up. It was Washington, with its restrictive measures against Russia, that created a situation where we were actually deprived of the opportunity to exercise our inspection rights in accordance with the Treaty. At the same time, the United States openly dismissed our well-founded objections and demanded the immediate resumption of inspection activities on Russian territory.
Russia continues to regard the START Treaty as an important instrument for ensuring predictability and preventing an arms race. It continues to serve the interests of both sides. In particular, a significant stabilizing role is played by the smoothly functioning regime for the exchange of notifications of the parties on the state of START.
We expect the United States to make good-faith efforts to create conditions for holding a session of the DCC in 2023 and returning to the full implementation of all the provisions of the START Treaty.
You'd think Outlaw US Empire pukes would have learned something about how to treat Russia by now, but no way Jose, er Blinken.
emersonreturn @61--
Thanks for your reply. We might make it to Russia & China when I turn 70 in 3 years. I just wonder if we'll be allowed to leave. The Archive has a massive collection of Soviet books of all types--children to math to all science fields. That Russian/Soviet science and math continued is one of the main reasons why Russia is what it is today.
@James post #10
"It has been racist since 2014."
Yeah, nobody truly cares. It's a talking point.
Posted by: ReinhardvonSiegfried | Nov 30 2022 1:37 utc | 65
@ emersonreturn | Nov 29 2022 21:49 utc | 24
thanks.. back at ya....
@ karlof1 | Nov 29 2022 23:56 utc | 43
enjoy the show! that will be fun!
@ ReinhardvonSiegfried | Nov 30 2022 1:37 utc | 65
that was me quoting a poster named 600w... i think it has been racist for long before then, but it became much more problematic since.. if you think the smo is about getting rid of nazism, then maybe it isn't just a talking point?
Posted by: james | Nov 30 2022 1:45 utc | 66
Further to the point made by PeterAu and others… that the quick-slow-quick-slow-slow-s-l-o-w-SMO is bleeding Europe (and the US).
I’ve seen on fanatically pro Ukraine twitter and blog threads the U$A yeeeeehaaaaa! boys crowing that they are bleeding Russia white … Ukies are killing Russian in the hundreds of thousands, “all for 6% of the US military us budget” (or whatever the % figure…).
The “fight Russia to the last Ukrainian” strategy is seen as incredibly clever, and its cynicism celebrated.
No-one beyond this blog, Brian Berletic’s New Atlas and the Ritter/McGregor/Duran/Martyanov congregation believes U$/NATO and the wider nest of quislings is running out of weapons.
The (western) world consensus is Russia is defeated, the delivery of just one more wonderweapon will seal the deal.
https://twitter.com/JavierBlas reports Gazprom is predicting gas at $3000~~??[twitter algorithm now blanking my view /I don’t have an account, so the algorithm now (Musk) only shows some tweets from accounts (or so it seems)//… so I can’t confirm what I read… anyway, Blas on twitter has a lot on the lack of wind and soaring electricity prices in UK and parts of Europe).
And he also reports the “Swiss cheese” attempt at an agreement on a price cap on Russian oil.
Russia’s strategy is a frog-boiling with incremental levels of pain…. Europe might well survive winter 2022, but what about all of 2023? And then winter 2023…when every type of reserve has been exhausted?
2-3 years is a very short timeframe in the history of major wars. And this is an absolute existential one…
Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 30 2022 1:46 utc | 67
reply to: emersonreturn | Nov 30 2022 1:16 utc | 61
Long cold Winters and isolation are like carborundum to an active mind.
Posted by: jr | Nov 30 2022 1:47 utc | 68
Destroying air defense systems is difficult and dangerous. When the US reneged on its disarmament agreement with Kaddaffi and sponsored a revolution against him, it was deemed necessary to impose a no fly zone. The politicians were then informed that we could not just deploy fighters in Libyan airspace to enforce the no fly zone because they would get shot down. The politicians were then informed that the US needed to have not just one aircraft carrier battle group but two carrier aircraft carrier groups backed up by strike aircraft from Italy plus heavy bombers from the US. We still lost aircraft. The fact that Russia has failed to completely destroy Ukraine's air defenses is not surprising.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Nov 30 2022 1:48 utc | 69
Bill Smith | Nov 30 2022 0:38 utc | 55
Why do the Saudis buy patriots?
Bill.. U$ weapons sales to Saudi have absolutely *nothing* to do with weapons.
It’s a feature of the petrodollar. It’s a money laundry, cycling and transferring USD.
That U$ weapons sold to Saudi + the wider Middle East and Africa are crap, is a feature, not a bug.
Israel, which controls U$ foreign policy, prohibits its adversary countries [which is all countries in its region..and beyond] having effective weapons.
That’s why wars in the last 50 years have only been fought against ill-equipped (rusty kalashnikov) military/combatants in sandals + civilians (“collateral damage”).
Confronted with a designated “near-peer” military, U$NATO is failing badly.
That’s why Ukraine is being used as a proxy, a NATO-but-not-NATO cutout.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 30 2022 2:11 utc | 70
Wondering what a timeline linking video and damage of say Yugoslavia/Iraq vs the SMO?
Posted by: Stonedthing1 | Nov 30 2022 2:14 utc | 71
Melaleuca | Nov 30 2022 1:46 utc | 67
If you haven't got Firefox browser, install that then download the plugin to take you past the twitter sign in block. Grab the plugin to bypass paywalls as well. With those plus using reader view where needed I can bypass most anything.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 30 2022 2:25 utc | 72
James no. 10 (via 600w)
"The European governments in particular are not behaving very responsibly towards their voters, as they are risking security and prosperity in order to serve the USA in a leading role in its project of world domination."
Why do they shoot themselves in the foot? Are they so beholden to the USA?
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Nov 30 2022 2:26 utc | 73
RSH31. No matter how its slices Russia is humanist. 100% reading what they r throwing down.
Posted by: Stonedthing2 | Nov 30 2022 2:29 utc | 74
Tbx | Nov 30 2022 0:35 utc | 54
George W Bush declared war on Russia in April 2008. The Kremlin then went into overdrive preparing for the coming war.
During the years from 2008 to 2012 Russia developed its new array of weapons and then in 2012 production of the new weapons began and by 2014 Russia began upgrading its arsenal at a rate missed by The Empire. The Russian MIC shifted into high gear after the 2014 uprising/coup.
In 2008 and again in 2012 Russia actually pleaded for some dialogue to stop the war but it was ignored so Russia proceeded with its plan...develop its Armed forces.
Every estimate of what the Russians have is a fraction of what they possess. They have prepared for this war for 14 years.
On the other hand the Empire declared war and then instead of preparing for it decided it was going to go on a global regime changing spree, squander its aresnal in the process and push Russia and China closer together. Now it is pushing India,Saudi Arabia and Iran into a consenus along the lines of the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
In another act of the Empires mendacity it sabotaged its main europeans ally's economy in a reprehensible act and thereby begun the demise of the EU.
Russia made the fatal mistake of trusting the Empire. They won't do that again. People make mistakes, idiots make them every time.
So I can see idiots at work but it isn't the Russians.
Posted by: Klaatu | Nov 30 2022 2:30 utc | 75
Is Putin satisfied now? I doubt it. He just mentioned some of his hindsight misgivings publicly. How many leaders are willing to be that open? Very few.
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 30 2022 0:32 utc | 52
IMV Putin has been the preeminent statesman in the world for 20 years bar none. He does not need to be perfect nor be seen to get everything right all the time. I believe Mandella is the only cone who comes close to Putin.
Putin and the team he built around him, brought into the Presidential group literally saved the Russian people and the nation from disaster. Any mistakes he has or ever makes are forgivable.
Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 30 2022 2:32 utc | 76
I still believe MH17 was shot down by Ukraine thinking it was Putins plane returning from Brazil. The colours and markings were almost the same and there was, i think, just a couple of hours difference in crossing the airspace?
Posted by: Ted from Liverpool | Nov 30 2022 2:38 utc | 77
ThusspakeZarathustra | Nov 30 2022 2:26 utc | 73
The EU is the eastern part of the Empire. Consider the relationship between Washington and Brussels along the lines of the relationship between Rome and Constantinople, that should help you make sense of this.
Posted by: Klaatu | Nov 30 2022 2:44 utc | 78
emersonreturn @61
wow, thankyou.
Would be good to see Emerson return ... though i barely know him i know enough to know we're in trouble.
Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 30 2022 2:49 utc | 79
SeanAU | Nov 30 2022 2:32 utc | 76
Putin is the preeminent political leader of the 21st century. Puts Mandela out of the picture
;)
Posted by: Klaatu | Nov 30 2022 2:51 utc | 80
michaelj72 | Nov 30 2022 1:22 utc | 62
Thanks for linking the Doctorow article.
..............
This was a very interesting section
From the very beginning of the Special Military Operation and cut-off of Russia from SWIFT, the exchange rates were bizarrely volatile until Russian banks established market driven cross currency rates that replaced the Central Bank rate for purposes of their dealings with retail customers. And then it quickly became clear that these rates were theoretical because bank branches across Russia did not have euro or dollar banknotes on hand to meet the demand of their customers. Now, as of today, I can confirm that the Russian banks around me in Petersburg are afloat in foreign currency. You can walk in to one bank and on the spot buy 20,000 euros against cash rubles. You can walk into another bank, Sberbank, and order those same 20,000 euros for delivery on the next day. How one can explain the sudden flood of cash euros in Russian banks when there is virtually no tourist traffic is beyond my understanding.
Gas for roubles good doctor. Euros get paid into a special Gazprom bank account who then sell the Euros for roubles and the roubles can then used to pay the customers Gazprom gas account. Somebody has to by all those Euros.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 30 2022 3:04 utc | 81
Russia like China are Civilizational Nations ...
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 30 2022 0:32 utc | 52
Saying, or rather Parroting, Russia like China are Civilizational Nations is to say nothing at all.
Unless you are to explain precisely what you mean by that comment and in what context. Just because Crooke or Escobar are using such a term recently does not make it useful or necessary, or even true what you believe it might mean.
The United Kingdom is a civilisation state. So were the Romans, Greece and the Mongols. France is a civilization state, so is Portugal, Spain and Germany and the Netherlands and Belgium. India is a civilization state as is Pakistan, Egypt, Afghanistan, Japan, Korea, and Mexico. Thailand is. Denmark is. Poland is. Africa is a modern day collection of civilisation states.
All it is a new jingoism that a few easily influenced and manipulated heads have lifted up on high and turned into a (meaningless) meme as if it like wow amazing, an Earth shattering realization of epic proportions. It isn't.
All it is a throw-away line that really should be literally thrown away like rubbish.
Seriously, anyone who is buying into this guff, such as Karl, are being had. There is nothing to it. Nothing at all.
It does not explain it does not define anything of worth or value above what is already the case regarding geopolitics. It's not new. It changes nothing at all. It is redundant!
IT was a phrase made up by a chinese academic in a talk to help frame a bit of history to highlight something to the CPC politburo into a perspective, a FRAME they could understand and get his contextual point - it was a Metaphorical Concept not a reality, not a fact ... this idea, notion, this phraseology is not the second coming of christ.
It's only an adjective for christ's sake. Shudder.
(talk to the hand sean, talk to the hand.)
Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 30 2022 3:19 utc | 82
But, how could that happened so fast and efficient?
Posted by: margo | Nov 29 2022 23:46 utc | 42
First, take away the kings, queens and princes which provide a single living focal reference point of the collective society, the shared sense of 'we.'
Then take away the religions as vibrant, binding forces, a shared sense of values as important as life and death.
Then provide a steady diet of distraction, deceit and 'democracy' via mass media transmitting the conviction that life is materialist meaninglessness.
And you too will end up with a country that isn't itself any more and a people who will believe pretty much anything they are told, like that they live in democracies or whatever.
Always a redeeming feature is the up-to-date latest refs to translated Maria Zakharova, Dmitry Peskov & Lavrov et al. Easy to find when and what Putin's been saying.
These people always have something meaningful to say. They talk things that matter, are important worth knowing about. Not so the self-serving opinion hacks pretending they are the critical go-to intermediaries. That without them no one could understand a damn thing.
Just the facts maam, just give me the facts.
Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 30 2022 3:29 utc | 84
karlof1, james, sean & jr, thank you. dear karl, i'm certain you will both adore russia & china. & once there forbidden to leave, either russia & china, to return home i can well imagine you both dancing in the streets, airport, & pausing only long enough to thank the gods for the great gift. say hi to edward snowdon. my god, russian concerts (matsuev!! live, he does jazz as well, & composes), the ballet, how many? the museums, the conversations, for the rest of your life---sorry sorry punishment indeed. truly i look forward to hearing your new life in russia via VK, or, china, china countryside or city will be dazzling, mountain swathed bamboo forests or heaven on earth cities. what a way to celebrate 70!
Posted by: emersonreturn | Nov 30 2022 3:31 utc | 85
t.me/The_Wrong_Side
Available no account…> [grim]
“Some soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine report problems with the supply of equipment for the winter period. Ukrainian soldiers are now forced to wait for new arrivals of equipment.
The military of the Armed Forces of Ukraine reports that he is accustomed to the fact that at the time of receiving shoes there are not enough shoes of the right size.
Also, soldiers of the Ukrainian army report that they cannot be issued a new uniform - they are given a worn version or a uniform that is unsuitable for use. Another Ukrainian serviceman notes that for three years of service in the army of Ukraine, he has never seen that uniforms and equipment were issued on time.
This suggests that even under the conditions of supplies from Western countries, there is still not enough equipment for the Ukrainian army.
With the arrival of winter, the Armed Forces of Ukraine begin to have serious problems.”
Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 30 2022 3:40 utc | 86
emersonreturn | Nov 30 2022 3:31 utc | 85
Your emotional response unfortunately will probably provoke emotional responses back to you. A serious human flaw and one that is responsible for this war.
Listen to the rational voices and respond in kind.
Such is life.
Posted by: Klaatu | Nov 30 2022 3:45 utc | 87
Maria Zakharova
To Stoltenberg, Borrell and Belodomovsky for memory:From a briefing by NATO Press Secretary Jamie Shea. Brussels, May 25, 1999:
Question: If you say that the [Yugoslav] army has a lot of generators, then why are you depriving the country of 70% of not only electricity, but also water supply, because, according to you, [NATO] only strikes on military installations.
Answer: Unfortunately, the command and control systems also depend on electricity. If Milosevic really wants his citizens to have water and electricity, all he has to do is accept the NATO terms and we will stop this campaign. Until he does, we will continue to attack targets that supply his army with electricity. If this has consequences for the population, these are his [Milosevic's] problems. Water supply and electricity are being used against the people of Serbia, we have "cut off" them forever or for a long time for the sake of the lives of 1.6 million Kosovars who have been driven from their homes and whose lives have been seriously damaged. Not everyone will like this difference, but for me this difference is fundamental.
https://t-me.translate.goog/MariaVladimirovnaZakharova/4231?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
A small historical point about the USA's and their cohorts about this "thingy" called the International Rules Based Order : Rules are only rules when you willingly submit to them.
There has been loads of submission going on for a very very very long time.
IT's good to see a few nations out there are developing a back-bone. Finally.
“Evil prevails when good people do nothing.”
— Erin Gruwell
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Unknown/Anonymous
“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.”
- Edmund Burke
“Tolerance is a crime when applied to evil.”
-Thomas Mann-
There has been a lot of evil going down while quite a few nations did nothing to stop it. They even at times facilitated it.
Just sayin'- People in glass houses and all ....
Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 30 2022 3:45 utc | 88
@ ThusspakeZarathustra | Nov 30 2022 2:26 utc | 73
great question... i don't have an answer that i am satisfied with, so with hold sharing my speculation at this time.
Posted by: james | Nov 30 2022 3:50 utc | 89
[re civilization state] IT was a phrase made up by a chinese academic in a talk to help frame a bit of history to highlight something to the CPC politburo into a perspective, a FRAME they could understand and get his contextual point - it was a Metaphorical Concept not a reality, not a fact ... this idea, notion, this phraseology is not the second coming of christ.
Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 30 2022 3:19 utc | 82
I was thinking about this off and on all day. I was wondering how one could define nation state versus civilizational state. You raise this too by pointing out that many nation states today are or were civilization states like France and UK.
But what is the difference, if any for one thing.
And then later one can discuss how significant that is or not.
Some ideas:
A civilization is a general overall polity that is shared, with local differences, by many nation states. For example 'Christian Europe.' They kept fighting each other but were part of the same overall European civilization.
A civilization has a way of defining the times. This is the Age of Roman civilization; or the British post industrial revolution civilization. Or Chinese civilization which varies slightly from dynasty to dynasty. It's a combination of people, customs, philosophy and above all culture. A civilization is a culture, a way of being, of seeing, of living and dying. All that stuff goes on in small countries too but they don't tend to define the Age.
We are in the modern distance-shrunk era so we can have several civilizations at once. That's not new, but the way they rub elbows so frequently is very new.
That said, the difference between an ex-civilization state and a no longer civilizational state like the UK is marginal. So I'm not sure if I'm buying this new geopolitical talking point.
I think all that is going on is that the RoW is uniting to resist a bully, and the more they come together the more they realize they outmatch an adversary they have
a) been bullied into regarding as friend and protector when it is neither and
b) believed it so powerful that resistance is futile.
This is a huge sea-change but am not sure if it represents a truly profound change so much as a changing of the guard but the same overall civilization will remain.
Because what were are in now and have been for decades is a post-war global civilization. With few exceptions all world leaders wear the same suits and ties. The countries have banks to manage money. We all drive cars and have electric lights and computers and drive to work and have houses or apartments. The whole world is doing the same basic stuff in the same basic way.
We already have a one world civilization basically. But civilizations comprise many different states and peoples and right now they are not in accord about how to go about things.
War is not a necessary way of settling differences.
But it sure is a very old one.
Hopefully we won't need more than the current borderland proxy skirmish.
But one way or another the balance of powers is going to change.
Am not yet convinced that there will be multiple civilizations though rather a new working arrangement so that each nation can find its rightful place in the already exising world civilization which comprises various nations who have very different polities, languages and cultures.
Mandalas within mandalas, layers and levels within layers and levels.
Klaatu | Nov 30 2022 2:30 utc | 75
I mostly concur with your post. I’d offer a slight revision to this:
“……Russia began upgrading its arsenal at a rate missed by The Empire.
Not “missed”, but “dismissed”.
I’m old enough to remember the derision in western+ media when Putin announced the new hypersonics.
oh the merry mocking fun …. Hypersonics don’t exist…. Ok. They exist… but they’re all “hype”sonics. Ok. Russia has hypersonics; so what, they just stole our tech. And anything Russian is shit, so who cares… Ok. Russia has hypersonics that work. We’ll have hypersonics….better than Russian hypersonics Real Soon Now. Ok. Russia has hypersonics. Russia’s hypersonics work.
Fuck.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 30 2022 3:55 utc | 91
Klaatu | Nov 30 2022 3:45 utc | 87
emersonreturn just gave a first hand of what it was like in Russia in 90s for exceptionally talented Russians. Something like that is very rare. I will repost it here for in case you couldn't bother going back to read it.
.................
karlof1@52, thank you for your links & VK space. i too was aware of the 90s rape, & corruption prior & during. my deceased husband was a mathematician working on many papers with russian mathematicians, they met @ conferences, mostly in europe/middle east, sharing papers, ideas, as well he was invited to important russian conferences. in the 90s b/c things were so incredibly difficult & o/c the work was the most important thing for all involved, we worked hard & long to bring several out for tenured track jobs in new zealand, canada & italy. all were heartbroken to leave bt couldn't see how they could continue to stay. when last attending a conference in moscow & novosibrisk, we encountered physicists who b/c they hadn't been paid for over a year were being courted by various parties to sell precious materials & information. desperation was palpable in many discussions. i have never lost my love & respect for the russian mind or heart. when we arrived in novosibrisk there was one computer, the elevator could hold 2people & one bag. the conference was for 2000 mathematicians from everywhere. i looked @ my husband & asked how did they make it into space...he replied on the basis of duct tape & their minds. it's why our library holds 40 shelves of russian math books.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 30 2022 3:55 utc | 92
Thanks Scorpion, you many points are well taken and I believe overall correct and on the money. I wish everyone her ewpuld read it and comprehend it's real meaning and stop being led down the garden path so easily. Alas, not so easy.
There is nothing to this "civilisation states" issue. It's a beat up. I cannot repeat that basic point enough.
What we have here is really very simple. What we have is the evergreen problem of Abuse of Power- this time by the United States of America primarily and this cohorts globally.
That is all it is. It is as simple as that.
You Scorpion put it this way -
I think all that is going on is that the RoW is uniting to resist a bully..
That is as good as any other way to put it, but it is particularly succinct while calling a spade a spade with complete clarity.
And how would a normal rational decent and sane perosn go abut dealing with a Bully?
It is not rocket science. For one you do not cowtow to their demands - ever. But the whole wolrd did and contineus to do so. China and Russia continue to cowtow as well in various (unspoken) ways.
Well her eis an idea - Stop!
I really liked your comment ... I don;t want to take away from it. So I will only say one more thing:
Had the everyone in the world done exactly what CUBA did then the USA would have an economy the size of Texas and would not ability to act like a bully over anyone.
But none were as courageous as CUBA was nor as committed to truth and justice no matter the personal cost.
A Pox on all their houses!
Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 30 2022 4:05 utc | 93
@ margo 42
Germany was trusted by the US with a little military psyops, the total destruction if Syria, France got Libya. You know dad has allowed me to fire his gun.
Germany and France even agreed to take refugees from their acts of destruction.
What they didn't understand , either of them, is that USUKIS planned a much larger scale of destruction, for which the Europeans took the psychological blame.
It's never a good idea to do Faustian pacts
with the devil. On payday, they want your soul,and USUKIS are waiting collecting now.
Britain's soul was collected in 1979 with Thatcher.They have long been on the zombie side.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 30 2022 4:08 utc | 94
@ Karlof1 - All.
Thankyou.
@ Klaatu | Nov 30 2022 2:30 utc | 75
Do not forget the literally insane incitement of Georgia to attack RF OCSE Peacekeepers (Airborne BN) & initiate open war upon RF.
Georgia. We've got your back!
Ocne the rounds went down range Sakashvili(?) & the Georgians were left to their inevitable fate, as all the US/NATO/Israeli instructors/advisors/SF/agents & embassy staff exited on flights out of Georgia.
IMV, this was the moment RF & China realized the score & commenced the long term planning & preparation leading to Feb2422. And numerous events/incidents subsequent re-affirmed their chosen course of action re the Golden Billion & their psychopathic Vampyre masters.
@ Elmer Fudd | Nov 30 2022 1:48 utc | 69
There are minimal AFU AD systems left, but they are carefully concealed & camouflaged & their detection radars are cold. Off.
The reason the RF sends up to three waves in quick succession when targeting critical infrastructure is a portion of the second & third waves promptly target & destroy a percentage of the identified/located AD systems that fired upon the first wave. And initial real-time BDA allows for prompt second or third strikes on targets not sufficiently annihilate.
Rinse & repeat.
@ Melaleuca | Nov 30 2022 2:11 utc | 70
Plausibly deniable - Monetary Tribute to Empire.
@ ThusspakeZarathustra | Nov 30 2022 2:26 utc | 73
Vassal, slave plantation is as vassal slave plantation does.
@ Klaatu | Nov 30 2022 2:44 utc | 78
Um, Rome & pre-conquered vassal Egypt ? Prior to Anthony & Cleopatra making a play for ultimate power ?
@ Klaatu | Nov 30 2022 2:51 utc | 80
That's funny, because I also said:
I believe Mandella is the only cone who comes close to Putin.
Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 30 2022 4:12 utc | 96
It’s an April 9, 2022 tweet. But I suspect some here will still find it of “interest”.
“Is Putin's famous god-daughter Ksenia #Sobchak abandoning ship ?
Sobchak, a socialite and journalist, has just received Israeli citizenship according to the Israeli publication Haaretz.”
https://twitter.com/jason_corcoran/status/1512768094460321794
Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 30 2022 4:14 utc | 97
Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 30 2022 3:55 utc | 91
Hypersonics is one tech they are ahead in. Weapons based on “new physical principles” is what they really lead in. You don’t use a weapon that you don’t know for sure your enemy doesn’t have. It has been tested to see if they noticed it and identified it…
Posted by: wind | Nov 30 2022 4:17 utc | 98
Outraged | Nov 30 2022 4:09 utc | 94
Russia has knocked out all Ukraine's main radars that detect targets for the launchers but I assume US surveillance aircraft would have taken over that job. The BUK launches especially can lay concealed and when the receive targeting information, switch on the targeting radar and fire.
Even without the advantage of a radar to designate targets, the Serbs still got an F-117 with an old soviet system.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 30 2022 4:20 utc | 99
Scorpion | Nov 30 2022 3:51 utc | 90
There is much a like about your comment. I hope many get to read it and ponder what's being said there.
I really liked this line:
I think all that is going on is that the RoW is uniting to resist a bully..
I too think it is really that simple. There is no need to wax lyrical about "civilisation states" because it is all fluff, imo. Sure there are complexities and nuances and all kinds of ways to discuss the endless aspects and details possible - to get down into the mud and thrash about - but to what end?
Like you above I would put it this way:
What we have here people is the classic case of an Abuse of Power - by the USA and it's cohorts.
That's it. Deal with that rationally and confront it, and the problem will solved.
The obvious "Speak Truth to Power" is a given! Few ever do. China and Russia, forget everyone else, are still not doing that now.
My last point is also simple - had the whole world acted courageously and in unison like CUBA has acted since the 1950s then the USA would not now be a globally abusive power, and it would not have an economy no bigger than Texas, nor 1000 military and CIA bases all over the world!
What is happening now in Ukraine would not be happening.
Cheers
Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 30 2022 4:22 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Oh wow big suprise, a new mass grave in Kherson. All blindfolded, hands tied and shot in the head.
Western values
Posted by: OohCanada | Nov 29 2022 19:36 utc | 1