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November 27, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-210
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. ![]() bigger Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
On 2 september the German FDP parliamentary fraction proposed to dismantle the part of Nord Stream 2 in German waters. The proposal did not prosper. On 26 september Nord Stream was blown up. Posted by: Passerby | Nov 27 2022 13:12 utc | 1 “Germans are big bodies sans spirit”. Posted by: Greg Galloway | Nov 27 2022 13:25 utc | 2 I continue to be utterly astonished at the stunning ‘cosmic cretinism’ of the EU and EC. WTF are they doing to their countries and it’s citizens. They seem to believe that turning their own countries into politically corrupt, poverty econonmies identical to Ukraine is the only way to show solidarity with them. Posted by: Jo Dominich | Nov 27 2022 13:33 utc | 3 There is a very interesting Russian language interview at “veche-info” with Vladimir Orlov, a major humanitarian / military aid coordinator for the SVO. Posted by: moaobserver | Nov 27 2022 13:47 utc | 4 My posts don’t seem to be showing up for the last couple of days. Any reason for that? Posted by: moabeobachter | Nov 27 2022 13:49 utc | 5
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/22607 Posted by: Down South | Nov 27 2022 13:52 utc | 6
Posted by: Down South | Nov 27 2022 13:54 utc | 7
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/22590 Posted by: Down South | Nov 27 2022 13:55 utc | 8 #3 Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Nov 27 2022 14:00 utc | 9 Just yesterday, “Ukrainian Nazis” was trending on Twitter, and going through a lot of those posts, it seems quite clear that the majority of people in the collective West have grown quite tired of making enormous sacrifices (see the big East Wall protest in Ireland, for example) for Ukraine, particularly its arrogant and unabashedly pro-Nazi military and political leaders. Posted by: Sam | Nov 27 2022 14:01 utc | 10 Merkel spills the beans and states that the Minsk agreements were willingly and negligently destroyed, an that in the verge of her retirement there was none in the Council of Europe who had the balls to take the lead in continuing presssing for negotiations with the Russians, confirming the general impression that European bureaucrats and government officials are the mediocrity and nulity we all suspect they are and are there only for the privileges their positions grant them, but they are not going to sweat or spend nights awaken in the least to achieve neither peace nor security, less progress in Europe, Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 14:06 utc | 11 What the f**k happend to journalistic integrity ? Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 27 2022 14:08 utc | 12 december in ukraine seems to start with -10 and even up to -20 in some areas, so after the mud the frost will set in, but has Russia stopped destroying the energy facility in Ukraine or it does continue every day? it seems like the good time for the population to flee to the west Posted by: Alex | Nov 27 2022 14:12 utc | 13 @Posted by: Alex | Nov 27 2022 14:12 utc | 12 Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 14:22 utc | 14 Who are mainly pushing for war in Europe?…Those whose fortune and economy depend on it…. Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 14:29 utc | 15 Russia has slowed down the destruction of Ukraine energy infrastructure, just long enough for them to patch those things up. Then Russia will promptly destroy them again. Much more soul destroying for Ukraine that way Posted by: DaVinci | Nov 27 2022 14:35 utc | 16 Posted by: Jo Dominich | Nov 27 2022 13:33 utc | 3 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Nov 27 2022 14:46 utc | 17 @Posted by: Sam | Nov 27 2022 14:01 utc | 9 Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 14:50 utc | 18 November 27th: Foreign legion mercenaries took up to 100 casualties from air force precision strike in the Donbass region. That’s at least a second major strike in the last 3 days or so. Posted by: unimperator | Nov 27 2022 14:52 utc | 19 Paul Craig Roberts of Reagan admin fame has a shout out to MoA on Ukraine reporting. He makes good points, of course because he is not a Blue Team guy, so he is allowed to criticize the current administration (something Blue Team members are forbidden from no matter what they actually think). Posted by: John R Moffett | Nov 27 2022 15:02 utc | 20 About maybe twenty years ago I attended a ‘book signing’ lecture at a local book store presented by the late great John Taylor Gatto. This old guy knew everything, and one thing he said still makes perfect sense after all these years (an unusual phenomenon). He said: The way to exert dominance and control of those whom you dominate is to induce them to perform actions that are manifestly absurd. You get them to build gigantic skyscrapers, and then to knock them down ‘into their own footprint’ (while blaming 19 hooligans with box cutters). Build vast metropolises and then bomb them down to rubble (e.g. Dresden). Fight meaningless wars that get tens, hundreds, etc. thousands of them killed for no reason whatsoever (e.g. Vietnam, Ukraine). In this manner you exert your dominance over your ‘loyal’ subjects (this being the normal modus operandi of narcissistic/fascist personalities). This life/death-for-nothing cycle has been going on forever. Modern ‘education’ has made it all possible. Getting used to it? Posted by: blues | Nov 27 2022 15:03 utc | 21 @Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Nov 27 2022 14:46 utc | 16 Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 15:14 utc | 23 @10 Ghost of Mozgovoy Posted by: zeun | Nov 27 2022 15:18 utc | 24 re:Merkel Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 27 2022 15:28 utc | 25 Watching this act play out in front of us in real time, where so-called leaders either shirk their responsibilities or actively encourage warmongering makes it much easier to understand how WW2 and WW1 came to be. Posted by: William Wilson | Nov 27 2022 15:28 utc | 26 My posts don’t seem to be showing up for the last couple of days. Any reason for that? Posted by: Tichy | Nov 27 2022 15:29 utc | 27 What happened to Journalistic Integrity? Posted by: Tom Stone | Nov 27 2022 15:30 utc | 28 @ my 24 Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 27 2022 15:33 utc | 29 @Posted by: Greg Galloway | Nov 27 2022 13:25 utc | 2 Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 15:34 utc | 30 Quote,there is lots of good content here: Posted by: BostonTom | Nov 27 2022 15:39 utc | 31 She was the dumbest minister in Kohl’s cabinet, and the dumbest and most destructive chancellor since WWII. Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Nov 27 2022 15:47 utc | 32 More from that real clear defense article: Posted by: BostonTom | Nov 27 2022 15:47 utc | 33 ” I continue to be utterly astonished at the stunning ‘cosmic cretinism’ of the EU and EC. WTF are they doing to their countries and it’s citizens. ” Posted by: Deplorable Commisar | Nov 27 2022 15:54 utc | 34 In other order of things, it seems that the commander of the newly arrived in Ukraine, PMC Mozart, who has make oath to fight PMC Wagner, is a “black transplantologist” who was previosuly dedicated to looking for organs in Kosovo…. Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 15:54 utc | 35 @blues | Nov 27 2022 15:03 utc | 20
Sure, that is why in basic military training one is trained to follow absurd orders. The purpose is to learn to obey. Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2022 16:04 utc | 36
https://t.me/azmilitary11/29576 Posted by: Down South | Nov 27 2022 16:08 utc | 37
https://t.me/azmilitary11/29577 Posted by: Down South | Nov 27 2022 16:10 utc | 38 @Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 15:54 utc | 34 Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 16:14 utc | 39 It is reported that Russia destroyed a railroad bridge in Kherov Rog. How major is that bridge? Can anyone post photos? Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Nov 27 2022 16:19 utc | 40 reply to 31 Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 27 2022 16:41 utc | 41 Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Nov 27 2022 16:19 utc | 40
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/22563 Posted by: Down South | Nov 27 2022 16:42 utc | 42 The MoA photo of a trench is truly depressing. Posted by: Nick | Nov 27 2022 16:46 utc | 43 @ Jo Dominich [3] Posted by: JessDTruth | Nov 27 2022 16:55 utc | 44 Russia must continue destruction of Ukraine energy infrastructure, otherwise it shall be defeated. In spite of what we here want Ukro army is still very strong and they are attacking daily. Posted by: margot | Nov 27 2022 17:02 utc | 45 Posted by: Down South | Nov 27 2022 13:55 utc | 8 Posted by: Brother Ma | Nov 27 2022 17:06 utc | 46 @Nick | Nov 27 2022 16:46 utc | 43
That humanity never learns. Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2022 17:11 utc | 47 @Arioch Trench video This video plus the photo leading this day’s discussion is sobering in the extreme. It is as if we have leapt back in time over 100 years as an earlier commenter stated (Nick). This is the same, the exact same, as it has been for centuries, at least as regards fighting in eastern Europe. Assuming the video posted is real (by that I mean current, and not something from, say, 10 years ago) I note the snow on the ground, the visible breaths of the soldiers. It is going cold, winter is arriving, and with it will come the flood of refugees and human chaos. I posted a couple days ago that we will know when things are really coming apart when the MSM begins to howl about Russian genocide, as if it is Russia that has caused the refugee crisis, not the Western response and refusal to negotiate, and, sure enough, a day later, here it started, with a narrative started blaming the Russians for the Ukrainian famine in the 1930s, building the case that Russia uses famine as a weapon, and is using such now, as a way to build the case that everything happening in Ukraine and Europe is the result of Russian genocide (neatly avoiding the sanctions or refusal to negotiate or the history of the failed Minsk agreements). Next will come declaration after declaration that Russia is a sponsor of state terrorism. All narratives to continue the battle, further make Russia a monster, displace blame, continue the engorgement of the weapons makers, and hopefully prevent the people from coming to their senses. Do you see the stories about how the Chinese people are more than fed up with the Covid rules and the real estate catastrophe? Wait until the Europeans react to the refugees and the cold and the lack of food and the realization they have been totally played….. Posted by: Boomheist | Nov 27 2022 17:11 utc | 48 For cognitive dissonance, this one by this moron Morawiecki….Prime Minister of Poland Mateusz Morawiecki at the monument to the victims of the Volhynia massacre, later paying tribute to Stepan Bandera, the murderer… Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 27 2022 17:13 utc | 49 Posted by: blues | Nov 27 2022 15:03 utc | 20 Posted by: bottle | Nov 27 2022 17:14 utc | 50 More data informing of the likely causes for the arrival of Milner´s PMC Mozart, allegedly to oposse PMC Wagner, but really to harvest from the high numbers of injured and death…. Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 17:14 utc | 51
Absolutely nothing. According to Frank Herbert author of Dune, the next 10,000 ys will look exactly like the last 10,000. Greed, pettiness, corruption, ambition, impulsiveness, cruelty, perversion, mindlessness and thoughtlessness are intrinsic and a constant. I was always into a Star Trek future, but I was a naive kid. As I get older I realize what an angry book Herbert was driven to write. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 27 2022 17:20 utc | 52 It is long time that I do not comment at MoA, mainly becuase of lack of time as I dedicate all my available time to try to inform myself through several dozens of sources. Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 17:24 utc | 53 @Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 27 2022 17:13 utc | 49 Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 17:29 utc | 54 “All in all, Merkel could have taken great efforts to reach an agreement with Russia” #11 Posted by: Milos | Nov 27 2022 17:29 utc | 55 @b @4; Posted by: moaobserver | Nov 27 2022 17:33 utc | 56 @52; Posted by: moaobserver | Nov 27 2022 17:38 utc | 57 @Posted by: Milos | Nov 27 2022 17:29 utc | 55 Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 17:41 utc | 58 Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 17:29 utc | 54 Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 27 2022 17:47 utc | 59 I was always into a Star Trek future, but I was a naive kid. Posted by: Nobody | Nov 27 2022 17:53 utc | 60 Posted by: Tom Stone | Nov 27 2022 15:30 utc | 28 Posted by: David F | Nov 27 2022 17:58 utc | 61 Frank Herbert gave us a lecture at UCSB in the early 70’s (close enough). Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Nov 27 2022 18:03 utc | 62 @Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 17:41 utc | 58 Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 18:03 utc | 63 @ 35 Ghost of Mozgovoy – That is very scary information. Do you know who Curso Nacional, source of the quote, is. I can’t link on them from the Twitter link. Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 27 2022 18:07 utc | 64 The Realist wing of US foreign policy – represented by the Quincy Institute and its website Responsible Statecraft – weighs in on the “difficult relationship” between the Ukrainian state and the Crimean peninsula. Posted by: jayc | Nov 27 2022 18:09 utc | 65 @60; Posted by: moaobserver | Nov 27 2022 18:13 utc | 66 i don’t think Americans, at any rate have learned much in the past century. I just saw a reference to Hanoi Jane (Jane Fonda) in a discussion about some US athletes visiting Chenchnya. To Americans, every war is world war 1 or world war 2, and they are taught that America saved Europe in both wars. there is some cynicism and opposition, but I’m not sure that is greater than in past wars, or that it would be even if the media were not so completely controlled. Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 27 2022 18:22 utc | 67 Some simple arithmetic about Merkel Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 27 2022 18:28 utc | 68 Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 27 2022 18:28 utc | 68 Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 27 2022 18:36 utc | 69 Don Bacon @25– For the gatekeepers here who celebrate having got Merkel out of combat, be careful not cheering before time has arrived…. Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 18:38 utc | 71 @Tom_12 | Nov 27 2022 18:28 utc | 68 Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2022 18:47 utc | 72 Regardless of technology….. Some things will never change because of set natural laws. When you can’t move to avoid concentrated fire you must go below grade.. into the ground. When there is no percolation into the soil because of clay or high water table then surface water goes to lowest point and that’s the bottom of your hole. Lessons learnt 100 years ago on the fields of Belgium are irrelevant in reality when it comes to trench warfare/hasty defensive fighting positions..anyhooo….it really seems like there is no regard for Ukrainian servicemen….I mean little effort to retrieve the dead is a huge red flag for me… psychologically for a soldier “no man left behind” is a foundation of the true motivation of fighting men which revolves around men with strong bonds fighting to protect each other ultimately. I suspect the mobilization has been centered on ethnic Russian Ukrainian populations whilst Western Ukraine is left intact. This would explain the hesitancy of Russia to steamroll units to their front but also very telling that specialized paramilitary units are to the rear pushing the Ukrainian forces forward and then purposely commiting atrocities against Russian servicemen and LPR and DNR militias….trying to initiate reprisals and drive a wedge between the Slavic cousins. During the Vietnam war the Tet offensive was initiated by Hanoi and decimated the Viet Cong as a fighting force and controlling element…in essence the war and control of it was transferred to the North. Is the West culling Eastern Ukrainian populations? Posted by: Joe | Nov 27 2022 18:48 utc | 73 moaobserver | Nov 27 2022 18:13 utc | 66 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 27 2022 18:54 utc | 74 @Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2022 18:47 utc | 72 Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 18:55 utc | 75 Tom@68 Posted by: David F | Nov 27 2022 18:57 utc | 76
https://t.me/azmilitary11/29586 Posted by: Down South | Nov 27 2022 19:02 utc | 77 Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 27 2022 18:36 utc | 69 Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 27 2022 19:03 utc | 78 Posted by: David F | Nov 27 2022 18:57 utc | 76 Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 27 2022 19:08 utc | 79 @ Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 18:38 utc | 71 Posted by: whirlX | Nov 27 2022 19:09 utc | 80 @Tom_12 | Nov 27 2022 19:03 utc | 78 Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2022 19:13 utc | 81 @ Jo Dominich “They should, as an exercise, read their own statements and replace the word Russia(ns) with the word Jews or Israel. It would reflect to them just how Nazi and Fascist they are.” More helpful and perhaps less insightful to consider Capitalism and zionism polarity to Socialism and Communism. Posted by: DDJ | Nov 27 2022 19:13 utc | 82 Posted by: moaobserver | Nov 27 2022 18:13 utc | 66 Posted by: Passerby | Nov 27 2022 19:14 utc | 83 @whirlX | Nov 27 2022 19:09 utc | 80 Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2022 19:30 utc | 84 Tom@78 Posted by: David F | Nov 27 2022 19:38 utc | 85 Follow up thought on my post at 85. Posted by: David F | Nov 27 2022 19:53 utc | 86 Posted by: moaobserver | Nov 27 2022 18:13 utc | 66 Posted by: Augustus Caesar | Nov 27 2022 19:54 utc | 87 @87 Posted by: Moaobserver | Nov 27 2022 19:57 utc | 88 We will all miss Angela Merkel’s “weapons of mass distraction.” Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Nov 27 2022 19:58 utc | 89 Posted by: David F | Nov 27 2022 19:53 utc | 86 Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 27 2022 19:59 utc | 90 @Posted by: whirlX | Nov 27 2022 19:09 utc | 80 Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 27 2022 20:02 utc | 91 @ Ghost of Mosgovy 71 Posted by: Giyane | Nov 27 2022 20:17 utc | 92 Posted by: whirlX | Nov 27 2022 19:09 utc | 80 Posted by: watcher | Nov 27 2022 20:40 utc | 93 ❗️The railway in Krivoy Rog in Ukraine will not work for a long time, – head of the Krivoy Rog military administration Yevgeny Sitnichenko. Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 27 2022 20:41 utc | 94 moaobserver: Posted by: wagelaborer | Nov 27 2022 20:48 utc | 95 He did ????? Posted by: Bazil | Nov 27 2022 20:54 utc | 96 A Civilian working with the Ukrainian Soldiers being trained in the UK by the British military has leaked on Telegram that most of the Ukrainians are not raw recruits, but are in fact combat vets or have recently completed training in Ukraine. Posted by: British Observer | Nov 27 2022 21:00 utc | 97 That’s a muddy mess right there. Submersible pumps, the kind you use to empty swimming pools, they are about $50 (or so) at most retailers that carry them. You can run them on a generator pretty easy. It was a surprise when the Ukrainian counteroffensive came that they had been sending disposable cannonfodder to the front while the valuable solders were being trained elsewhere. Now I wonder how many of the Ukrainian dead and wounded were Russian speaking. Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Nov 27 2022 21:04 utc | 99 WhirlX no. 80 Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Nov 27 2022 21:22 utc | 100 |
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