Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 26, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-208

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

From a New York Times piece today:

Artillery Is Breaking in Ukraine. It’s Becoming a Problem for the Pentagon.

A third of the roughly 350 Western-made howitzers donated to Kyiv are out of action at any given time, according to U.S. defense officials and others familiar with Ukraine’s defense needs.

Swapping out a howitzer’s barrel, which can be 20 feet long and weigh thousands of pounds, is beyond the capability of soldiers in the field and has become a priority for the Pentagon’s European Command, which has set up a repair facility in Poland.

A barrel change would typically be done in the field by the maintenance platoon at the battalion level. As the wise men of NATO have not trained any Ukrainians to do that they have to ship the guns 1,000 kilometer back and forward even for minor repair issues.

Also - The guns are crap:

In 2017, a Marine artillery battery from Camp Lejeune deployed to Syria with four M777 guns and fired more than 23,000 rounds of 155-millimeter ammunition in five months of supporting combat operations in Raqqa — nearly 55 times what a typical battery of that size would normally fire in a year of peacetime training.

As a result, three of the battery’s howitzers had to be removed because of excessive wear over the course of that deployment and were replaced with guns held in reserve in Kuwait.

When one of the howitzers went down, the others simply fired more, an option the Ukrainians are forced to choose daily.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on November 26, 2022 at 16:19 UTC | Permalink

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Sounds like a puff piece to set the narrative for more and bigger weapons, even if its true.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Nov 26 2022 16:32 utc | 1

It is interesting that we hear on the one hand that AFU is using far fewer shells per day, and on the other hand they are wearing out barrels at a fast rate, so we can infer lots fewer guns in action. I would hazard a guess that Russian maintenance and repair is much more timely too.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 26 2022 16:39 utc | 2

More performative parliamentary exploits - not just a famine, but a "terror famine":

"Germany’s Bundestag is planning to pass a resolution declaring the starvation of millions of Ukrainians under Joseph Stalin a genocide, a move that parliamentarians hope will serve as a “warning” to Moscow as Ukraine faces a potential hunger crisis this winter."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/25/germany-set-to-declare-starvation-of-ukrainians-under-stalin-a-genocide-holomodor

Posted by: jayc | Nov 26 2022 16:41 utc | 3

@3 I trust the Bundestag won't overlook German activities in Ukraine during WW2

Posted by: dh | Nov 26 2022 16:50 utc | 4


I don't know if it's the done thing to cross post - but I was so pleased to find this on another of my "Don't miss!" sites.

Here's Andrei Martyanov coming across some news that cheered me up rather:-

Saving The Honor...

... and Allied spirit. As Mr. Prigozhin, the founder of Wagner Group stated today:


Как сообщил бизнесмен, отвечая на вопрос финской газеты Helsingin Sanomat, граждан Финляндии в составе ЧВК «Вагнер» есть «не очень много», около 20 человек. «По понятным причинам я не могу давать точную информацию о них», — указал он. При этом предприниматель отметил, что это, как правило, «высококлассные специалисты, очень идейные и мотивированные». По словам Пригожина, у него сложилось очень хорошее мнение о финнах на поле боя. Бизнесмен добавил, что они воюют в британском батальоне в составе ЧВК «Вагнер», командиром которого является гражданин США, экс-генерал морской пехоты.

Translation: As the businessman said, answering a question from the Finnish newspaper Helsingin Sanomat, there are “not very many” Finnish citizens in the Wagner PMC, about 20 people. “For obvious reasons, I cannot give accurate information about them,” he said. At the same time, the entrepreneur noted that these are, as a rule, “highly qualified specialists, very ideological and motivated.” According to Prigozhin, he had a very good opinion about the Finns on the battlefield. The businessman added that they are fighting in a British battalion as part of the Wagner PMC, commanded by a US citizen, ex-general of the Marine Corps.

Posted by: English Outsider | Nov 26 2022 17:01 utc | 5

This war is about europe not buying enough American military hardware. They do now and Ukraine was the pretext / provocation needed to get them to do so

Posted by: Etcetera | Nov 26 2022 17:03 utc | 6

The gun barrels are wearing out because of a typical and systemic problem of the Amerikastani military mindset: its highly complex weapons systems are predicated on the idea that constant repair and maintenance facilities will be always available. As the Germans discovered in 1943-45 with their wonderful Tiger, Panther, and Königstiger tanks, their truly brilliant Jagdtiger and Jagdpanther tank destroyers, their revolutionary Me 262 jet fighters, and all the other Wunderwaffen, it is one thing to make a gigantically complex and theoretically invulnerable weapon, and quite another to keto out functioning in the battlefield.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 26 2022 17:05 utc | 7

@jayc3:

Fine. So will the Scholzistani parliament declare the Brutish deliberate starving to death of 4 million Indians in the Bengal Famine of 1943 a genocide?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 26 2022 17:07 utc | 8

Bundestag’s plans to recognize the Holodomor as “genocide” contradict common sense—Ambassador (EurAsia Daily, Daniil Vinogradov, November 26, 2022 — in Russian)

The initiative of Bundestag MPs to adopt a resolution recognizing 1932–1933 mass famine in the USSR as a “genocide of the Ukrainian people” is antihistorical in nature and also contradicts the facts and common sense. This was stated in an article published today, November 26, in the Junge Welt newspaper by Russian Ambassador to Germany Sergey Nechaev.

“With great regret and surprise we read in the German press that some Bundestag MPs are calling for the massive famine that occurred in the USSR in the early 1930s to be recognized as a genocide of the Ukrainian people. An approach that is ahistorical, deceitful and contrary to common sense,” the Russian diplomat admitted.

As Nechaev explained with reference to historical documents, as a result of the famine that struck a significant part of the USSR in 1932–1933, more than 7 million people died, including about 2.5 million in the central regions of Russia and 1.5 million in Kazakhstan. “The famine was massive and did not choose its victims,” the Ambassador stated. According to Nechaev, the tragedy was caused by a severe drought and subsequent crop failure, as well as the emergency measures taken by the Soviet government to carry out forced collectivization.

“These tough measures were applied in all agricultural regions of the USSR without exception. Not only Ukrainians were starving and dying, but also Russians, Belarussians, Tatars, Bashkirs, Kazakhs, Chuvashs, Volga Germans and other peoples,” Nechaev noted. “It is obvious that the seizure of grain from the peasants was not aimed at the senseless destruction of a particular national group, including the population of the Ukraine, which, besides, has always been multinational.”

“The Soviet government was also multinational. It is absurd to accuse it of hatred for the Ukraine. It is well known that in the Ukraine, too, the excessive zeal of local authorities was a frequent cause of excesses in carrying out instructions from the center,” the diplomat emphasized. He also recalled that managerial errors and the tragic consequences of the famine in the USSR were officially recognized already in 1933, and the Soviet government organized large-scale food aid to the regions most affected by the famine, including the Ukraine.

“To depict the tragedy of the famine that engulfed many peoples of the USSR in the early 1930s as the targeted destruction of a particular group of the population because of its ethnicity, ignoring the millions of victims of other nationalities, is unjustified and indecent. This narrative, which has nothing to do with objective reality, is aimed at inciting anti-Russian sentiments and, in this sense, actively revising history in a Russophobic vein,” Nechaev summed up.

On Friday, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper reported, citing a draft joint document prepared by MPs of both the ruling parties and the opposition CDU/CSU bloc, that on November 30 Bundestag MPs intend to discuss and adopt a resolution recognizing the Holodomor in the Soviet Union as “a genocide of Ukrainians.” According to the initiators of the document, the Holodomor is “part of the common history of Europeans,” so the German government should take measures to disseminate information about the events of the 1930s.

The Germans now want to codify into law literal Third Reich propaganda.

Posted by: S | Nov 26 2022 17:10 utc | 9

@ Neofeudalfuture | Nov 26 2022 16:32 utc | 1

i think that puff piece is so they can rationalize spending more money on ukraine... sort of the same thing i suppose... the nyt is such a dispicable news outlet... explains why many or some see the msm as pure disinfo and propaganda..

Posted by: james | Nov 26 2022 17:10 utc | 10

I just can't see how the Kiev regime can continue fighting an artillery war much longer with such maintenance issues. This seems to be heading for closure within a few months.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 26 2022 17:13 utc | 11

@ S | Nov 26 2022 17:10 utc | 9

quote - "The Germans now want to codify into law literal Third Reich propaganda.:

they are just taking a page out of the lead propagandist - yale university timothy synder...

he's at the forefront of this mass propaganda blitzkrieg..

Posted by: james | Nov 26 2022 17:15 utc | 12

re: "in five months of supporting combat operations in Raqqa"

Actually the Marine battery was blindly firing artillery into Raqqa, which together with mortar fire and aerial bombing completely leveled Raqqa and any life in it, an unfortunate standard US military skill.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 26 2022 17:16 utc | 13

dh no. 4

Or Poland.

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Nov 26 2022 17:18 utc | 14

The Bolsheviks absolutely hated Christians of all sorts in Russia. They did kill around 60 million during their reign of terror. And there is a very good argument that these murderous Bolsheviks were not ethnic Russians.

Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2022 17:20 utc | 15

Was this "three axes", M777 ?

https://t.me/Z4LPR/336

I know, should've feel a great deal of shadenfraude about enemy's tech, but still...

Posted by: Arioch | Nov 26 2022 17:21 utc | 16

Does the barrel of a Howitzer really weigh "thousands of pounds"? I thought they were supposed to be titanium. Also is this regarding a 105mm or 150mm? Can't see article b/c it's behind New York Times' propaganda wall.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 26 2022 17:21 utc | 17

@9
Speaking of revising history, does anyone understand Blinken on denazification?

Sep 29, 2022
Secretary Antony Blinken
@SecBlinken
United States government official
As we remember the 1941 massacre of Jews at Babyn Yar in Ukraine, Russia’s claim that Ukraine must be “denazified” insults all who suffered, and those who bravely resisted, during the Nazi regime. Distorting the history of the Holocaust undermines efforts to prevent atrocities.

Babyn Yar in Kyiv was the site of one of the largest mass shootings of Jews in German-occupied Europe. It occurred on September 29–30, 1941. Germans continued to perpetrate mass murders at this killing site until just before the Soviets re-took control of Kyiv in 1943. During this period, Germans shot Jews, as well as Roma. In the decades after the war, Babyn Yar symbolized the struggle over the memory of World War II and the Holocaust in the Soviet Union.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 26 2022 17:22 utc | 18

Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2022 17:20 utc | 15

LOL 60 million Christians killed by the Bolsheviks? What's your source for that. Even bullshit Western capitalist propaganda outlet Wikipedia says 12-20M and that's also bullshit.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 26 2022 17:22 utc | 19

More performative parliamentary exploits - not just a famine, but a "terror famine":

"Germany’s Bundestag is planning to pass a resolution declaring the starvation of millions of Ukrainians under Joseph Stalin a genocide, a move that parliamentarians hope will serve as a “warning” to Moscow as Ukraine faces a potential hunger crisis this winter."

Posted by: jayc | Nov 26 2022 16:41 utc | 3

---

It was only a matter of time before Berlin would once again declare Nazi propaganda to be official state doctrine.

It is a matter of some significance that Cardinal Innitzer’s allegations of famine-genocide were widely promoted throughout the 1930s, not only by Hitler’s chief propagandist Goebbels, but also by American Fascists as well.

It will be recalled that Hearst kicked off his famine campaign with a radio broadcast based mainly on material from Cardinal Innitzer’s “aid committee.” In Organized Anti-Semitism in America, the 1941 book exposing Nazi groups and activities in the pre-war United States, Donald Strong notes that American fascist leader Father Coughlin used Nazi propaganda material extensively. This included Nazi charges of “atrocities by Jew Communists” and verbatim portions of a Goebbels speech referring to Innitzer’s “appeal of July 1934, that millions of people were dying of hunger throughout the Soviet Union.”

Tottle, Douglas. Fraud, Famine, and Fascism. Toronto: Progress Books,1987, p. 49-51

https://socialistmlmusings.wordpress.com/2017/02/15/stop-spreading-nazi-propaganda/

Unter den Talaren - Muff von 1000 Jahren! :)

Posted by: Nobody | Nov 26 2022 17:23 utc | 20

Posted by: S | Nov 26 2022 17:10 utc | 9

As I'm sure you're aware, the "Holodomor" famine was also a by product of some really stupid science. While there is blame to be laid on the Communist Party, it wasn't intentional; just idiocy. Trofim Lysenko should not have been listened to.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 26 2022 17:27 utc | 21

@Exile #15:

The Bolsheviks absolutely hated Christians of all sorts in Russia. They did kill around 60 million during their reign of terror.

Absolute bullshit from an idiot who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

And there is a very good argument that these murderous Bolsheviks were not ethnic Russians.

More propaganda—this time, literal Nazi propaganda about “Judeo-Bolsheviks.” There were Bolsheviks of all kinds of ethnicities.

Posted by: S | Nov 26 2022 17:34 utc | 22

German 155mm guns seem not up to the task either:

artillery systems supplied by Germany are in need of repair due to intensive use on the front in eastern Ukraine. According to German army sources, the Ukrainians are currently firing around 300 shells a day, which is severely wearing down the weapon systems. (Spiegel 47/2022)

We have an army that is suitable to go on safari in Africa. If the US does the logistics for us.

Posted by: Passerby | Nov 26 2022 17:36 utc | 23

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 26 2022 17:21 utc | 17

The design studies around titanium use in the M777 wax vocal on how the weight of the barrel was reduced through the use of titanium allows in the bracketry and some castings.

Either it's all b.s or it's all relative.

One can never tell with the MIC run by the Milo Minderbinders of this world ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2022 17:36 utc | 24

In the beginning of the SMO Russian soldiers were seen distributing food parcels to Ukrainian farmers. I take it that he will keep on to help once Zelinsky and his Nazis are gone. The Germans should better keep their mouth shut.

Slava Putin. Slava Russia.

Posted by: Lily | Nov 26 2022 17:38 utc | 25

The Germans should better keep their mouth shut.

Posted by: Lily | Nov 26 2022 17:38 utc | 25

---

No. :)

Posted by: Nobody | Nov 26 2022 17:43 utc | 26

The Germans now want to codify into law literal Third Reich propaganda.

Posted by: S | Nov 26 2022 17:10 utc | 9

thank you for such important and utterly infuriating news. this on top of revising the soviet union's major role in WWII and equating them with the nazis.

thus, more children will grow up with history books even more full of lies, lies that lead to wars. i despise these people for their embrace of facism and their willingness to be nazi-like themselves while projecting it onto others in very powerful ways.

Posted by: polarbear4 | Nov 26 2022 17:47 utc | 27


I saw a video where 2 US soldiers, both pro Ukrainian announced the artillery package to Ukraine. One of them smirked and stated "I hope they got the maintenance package"
They are known unreliable hunks of poo

Posted by: OohCanada | Nov 26 2022 17:47 utc | 28

test

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 26 2022 17:48 utc | 29

@ jayc Perhaps they haven't read Tauger on the famine in the USSR and in adjacent countries and provinces, 1932-1933. Perhaps that's because they can't read.

Posted by: Squeeth | Nov 26 2022 17:50 utc | 30

When Stalin began grabbing grain stores in Ukraine from the drought starved Ukrainian population in order to genocide them, at least he could have shipped the grain East to feed the drought starved Russian population and keep from genociding them.

Posted by: Generation X | Nov 26 2022 17:54 utc | 31

🇺🇸🇪🇺🇬🇧🇺🇦🇷🇺20 out of 30 NATO countries have exhausted their stocks of weapons that they could supply to Ukraine - New York Times

▪️ this was told by the representative of the alliance. First of all, we are talking about small states. The remaining 10 are still able to supply Kiev with weapons and equipment: among them France, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands.

▪️ Germany, France and the USA also choose weapons for transfer so that they do not touch the territory of Russia (we are talking about the borders of the Russian Federation before the referendum).

▪️ "Nine months after the start of the war, the fundamental unpreparedness of the West has caused a mad struggle to supply Ukraine with what it needs, as well as to replenish NATO supplies. As both sides are spending weapons and ammunition at a pace not seen since the Second World War, competition to keep arsenals at full level has become a crucial front that could prove decisive for Ukraine's efforts.
▪️ According to NATO representatives, the amount of artillery used is staggering. In Afghanistan, NATO forces could fire 300 artillery rounds a day and not really worry about air defense. But Ukraine can fire thousands of rounds a day and still desperately needs air defense against Russian missiles and Iranian-made drones.
▪️ A day in Ukraine is a month or more in Afghanistan," said Camilla Grand, a defense expert at the European Council on Foreign Relations, who until recently was NATO's assistant Secretary General for defense investment. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/26/world/europe/nato-weapons-shortage-ukraine.html


https://t.me/azmilitary11/29542

Posted by: Down South | Nov 26 2022 18:01 utc | 32

Yeah its mostly about squeezing Europe with both energy and weapons for the us. They've already threw the old Soviet stuff at Russia now they can replace the replacements ad naseuam. Ah government contracts they're the best.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Nov 26 2022 18:06 utc | 33

A look at the new apartment complexes being built in Mariupol

Video in Tweet

https://twitter.com/NTY57NTY/status/1596493746203676673

Posted by: Down South | Nov 26 2022 18:08 utc | 34

“The Bolsheviks absolutely hated Christians of any kind in Russia. They killed an estimated 60 million during their reign of terror. And there is a very good argument that these murderous Bolsheviks were not Russian.
Posted by: Exile | Nov 26, 2022 17:20 utc | 15''

The Bolsheviks and Communism are the creation of Jewish Zionists, to persecute and kill Orthodox Christians. Only Orthodox, because Orthodoxy is the true faith.

Posted by: Athanasios | Nov 26 2022 18:09 utc | 35

@Down South | Nov 26 2022 18:01 utc | 32

A day in Ukraine is a month or more in Afghanistan," said Camilla Grand, a defense expert at the European Council on Foreign Relations, who until recently was NATO's assistant Secretary General for defense investment.
9 months in Ukraine (~270 Ukraine days) is ~270/12= ~22 Afghanistan years. You are on overtime, Camilla.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 26 2022 18:12 utc | 36

@Tom_Q_Collins #21

Lysenko had nothing to do with the scale of the 1932–1933 Soviet famine. It was all due to a combination of poor crops and poorly planned and executed collectivization campaign. The collectivization idea itself wasn’t wrong; it was the only way to mechanize at that time, and it did greatly improve productivity in the end. The problem is that it took a few years to get there, and initially, productivity fell. Also, many peasants were resistant to the idea of collectivization; they ate their cattle, so that collective farms wouldn’t get it, which meant that next year they didn’t have enough milk. Also, some local authorities were over-reporting crop yields to look good in the eyes of the higher-ups, then had to take more grain from peasants than was allowed by the orders to cover their asses. (For these actions, these local authorities were judged, sentenced to death and executed in mid-to-late 1930s; however, nowadays, they are counted in the West and in the Ukraine among the “victims of communism,” which demonstrates for the umpteenth time that the West and the Ukraine do not care about truth and justice and are all about propaganda.) All of this could have been avoided had the Soviet government prepared sufficient grain reserves before embarking on such a radical reform, had it anticipated the degree of resistance of peasants to the reform and planned accordingly, double-checked crop yield figures reported by local authorities, etc. In summary, it was a colossal fuck-up of the Soviet system costing millions of deaths all over the Soviet Union, and Stalin was certainly responsible for that fuck-up as the supreme leader of the country, but it wasn’t in any shape or form “a deliberate starvation of Ukrainians,” because (a) it wasn’t deliberate and (b) it didn’t affect just Ukrainians, it affected everybody.

Posted by: S | Nov 26 2022 18:15 utc | 37

Canada's parliament declared Holodomor a historic "fact" back in 2008.

"Canada is one of 17 countries worldwide who have declared the deaths a genocide."

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/echoes-of-holodomor-the-terror-famine-seen-as-russian-attacks-on-ukraine-continue

Posted by: jayc | Nov 26 2022 18:15 utc | 38

The Bolsheviks and Communism are the creation of Jewish Zionists, to persecute and kill Orthodox Christians. Only Orthodox, because Orthodoxy is the true faith.

Posted by: Athanasios | Nov 26 2022 18:09 utc | 35

---

Marx was neither Jewish nor Zionist, nor did he want to persecute or kill orthodox Christians.

Posted by: Nobody | Nov 26 2022 18:18 utc | 39

The Bolsheviks and Communism are the creation of Jewish Zionists, to persecute and kill Orthodox Christians. Only Orthodox, because Orthodoxy is the true faith.

Posted by: Athanasios | Nov 26 2022 18:09 utc | 35

---

Marx was neither Jewish nor Zionist, nor did he want to persecute or kill orthodox Christians.

Posted by: Nobody | Nov 26 2022 18:18 utc | 40

The German parliament should declare the 251 military interventions by the US since 1991, which did not get UNSC approval, illegitimate and sanction the US accordingly. If that's too complex, they could start with Madleine Albright's "worth the effort" killing of half a million Iraqi children and work forward step by step. As long as that doesn't happen, they have no moral authority to declare anything. As a German citizen: They don't represent me, except maybe a handful of the many hundred law makers. And even those have unilaterally declared the SMO to be "against international law" (which I challenge) and looked too quickly aside when faced with any of these stunning 251 other cases.

Posted by: OttoE | Nov 26 2022 18:20 utc | 41

Is there a word limit or paragraph limit that sends posts to where lost socks wind up?

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 26 2022 18:23 utc | 42

The main causes of the famine in the U.S.S.R. are, in order of significance:

1. bad weather; the grain production of Russia is highly variable and dependant on good weather and, therefore, famines were a recurring event before the introduction of modern, mechanized and chemistry enhanced agricolture. During the early '30s weather was bad in all the Northern Emisphere, have you ever heard of the Dust Bowl?

2. the bad science of Lysenko, a Ukrainian by the way.

3. the blind faith in the central planning, even when, locally, it was evident that the situation was bad.

Posted by: SG | Nov 26 2022 18:25 utc | 43

@21
ITS Not the best source from the Name, but the recommended answer sounds valid
https://www.quora.com/Who-is-behind-the-Holodomor-hoax

Posted by: 600w | Nov 26 2022 18:29 utc | 44

@Exile 15

Oh tosh! Demonstrating your total lack of knowledge on the issue and repeating propaganda as idiotic as it is false. Refer Lies Concerning the History of the Soviet Union or Furr Grover Carr Furr III (2011-05-03). Khrushchev Lied: The Evidence That Every Revelation of Stalin's (and Beria's) Crimes in Nikita Khrushchev's Infamous Secret Speech to the 20th Party Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union on February 25, 1956 is Provably False.

Posted by: Hermit | Nov 26 2022 18:31 utc | 45

Posted by: jayc | Nov 26 2022 18:15 utc | 38

Slightly OT but Canadians are very quick to recognize genocide as it pertains to other cultures and peoples. Except in the case of their own abhorrent record regarding the indigineous populations within Canadian borders.

Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Nov 26 2022 18:37 utc | 46

Canada's parliament declared Holodomor a historic "fact" back in 2008.

"Canada is one of 17 countries worldwide who have declared the deaths a genocide."

Posted by: jayc | Nov 26 2022 18:15 utc

Just more proof that governments change, but policy doesn't. That was Harper's CONS. Polievre and the Con-braintrust has been careful to keep his "mentor" Harper out of sight after the polls dropped dramatically after Little Prince Stevie's "endorsement".

Posted by: Old canadian | Nov 26 2022 18:38 utc | 47

Indigenous

Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Nov 26 2022 18:39 utc | 48

The collectivization idea itself wasn’t wrong; it was the only way to mechanize at that time, and it did greatly improve productivity in the end.

Posted by: S | Nov 26 2022 18:15 utc | 37

---

Thanks for your post S.

Btw, one easy way to see that collectivization is not the worst idea is that this outright commi-satanism exists en masse even in God's own country.

https://www.rd.usda.gov/files/RD_Top100AgricultureCooperatives.pdf

Posted by: Nobody | Nov 26 2022 18:42 utc | 50

Except in the case of their own abhorrent record regarding the indigineous populations within Canadian borders.

Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Nov 26 2022 18:37 utc

This ^^^

Which is why Xi spanked Trudy in public for beaking off about "human rights abuses". Not that China doesn't have issues there, but the Trudy Cabal has no more reason to claim rights purity than any previous regime.

Trudy can't even bear allowing Trucker (human) rights SPELLED OUT in the Constitution, Bill or Rights and the Charter on Rights and Freedoms.

Posted by: Old canadian | Nov 26 2022 18:43 utc | 51

oops Bill OF Rights

Posted by: Old canadian | Nov 26 2022 18:45 utc | 52


NYT as everyone knows, is straight nwo agitprop, if they report 1/3 it's more like 2/3. If they report a day's usage is like a month in Afghanistan it's probably more like 2 month's worth of wear. US MIC weapons were never designed to be deployed to win battles they're main design is to make profit. The older stuff, both nato and soviet that other nations shipped to kiev were the truly effective weapons and the most durable, 1940's - 1980. With that supply drying up what little operational effectiveness the ukrops could have on the battlefield is gone, they're left with fukus-trained terrorist tactics and lobbing large artillery to border towns.

Posted by: NJH | Nov 26 2022 18:46 utc | 53

@ Digital Spartacus | Nov 26 2022 18:37 utc | 46

Slightly OT but Canadians are very quick to recognize genocide as it pertains to other cultures and peoples. Except in the case of their own abhorrent record regarding the indigenous populations within Canadian borders.

Indeed. And Irish to their own under extreme Catholicism ... though escaping orthodox domination.

Same for the Australians, on both counts, though gradually improving ...

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 26 2022 18:49 utc | 54

I would not give a hoot about Germany's politicians and their games, but unfortunately the money we use is basically the German Mark so whatever happens up north is bound to play a big role in the way we live down here in southern Europe. The golodomor with g is becoming the “I am more victim than you” script, it has provided incredible results for some groups of people so why not apply it in Ukraine. But how about famine in a country whose main export are food products and exported to the USA? Guatemala, three crops a year and famine, today not a century ago. But that's the empire specialty, movies and a parallel reality, sort of covering the sun with one finger, but amazingly effective, the world got hooked on soap operas, so the show goes on.

I listen to Vladlen Tatarsky almost daily and he is forecasting a long very long war, today he talked about at least three years and that was an optimistic appraisal of the situation, the empire won’t let go and their European minions are all onboard so in spite of all the cold and misery this disgrace is going to last.

https://www.unicef.es/noticia/desnutricion-en-guatemala

Posted by: Paco | Nov 26 2022 19:01 utc | 55

@Arch Bungle 24

As I have noted previously, all 155mm artillery pieces burn through barrels, especially when used with NATO standard ammunition. It is a matter of differential velocity. With a muzzle velocity of 900m/sec (c 3000 fps) it would be amazing if they did not, especially when rapid firing (3 rounds per minute) and no time to cool Gerald Bull who designed the Canadian GC-45 155.4 mm (6") prototype and ERFB (Extended Range Full Bore) shell used aerodynamic nubs on the shells and sabots to lower friction and even with this, the derivative South African G5/G6 burned through barrels every two or three days under conditions of heavy use (400 to 600 rounds per day).

Posted by: Hermit | Nov 26 2022 19:01 utc | 56

Since the late 1800s the US has invaded countries with relatively small or non-existent armies, and avoided major wars with well-armed countries whenever possible. The US military is mostly tasked with asymmetrical warfare against an inferior foe. A proxy war using Ukraine as the fodder allows the US to test and hone equipment and tactics against Russia without direct confrontation, so I am certain that failure rates on all US supplied weaponry are being very closely monitored. I am wondering if there are going to be any angry meetings between the DoD brass and weapon manufacturer executives when the numbers are in.

Posted by: John R Moffett | Nov 26 2022 19:04 utc | 57

The 1929-31 famine in the grain growing regions of the USSR was indeed the product of Stalin's move to collectivize agriculture. But this move wasn't just made to increase mechanization. It was also done to gain control over the food supply for security, ideological and financial reasons. Control of the food supply meant control of any "surplus," which could be used to buy capital equipment abroad. An increase in capital equipment was important for industrialization of the USSR, the creation of an actual, you know, proletariat, which was important for ideological reasons. That this was done in the midst of a world wide depression meant much more "surplus" had to be seized to buy the needed capital equipment. Control of the food supply also meant not having the Soviet government dependent on the politically unreliable (and for Marxist ideology undesirable) peasantry. When the peasants resisted, the collectivization campaign became a class war -- ostensibly aimed at rich farmer kulaks (and anyone allied with kulaks). This dynamic fed on itself and was the primary cause of the mass famine.

On the other hand, similar mass famines caused by primitive accumulation occurred in the US to the plains Indians with the extermination of the buffalo deliberately intended to cause mass death to an undesirable ethnicity, in Ireland during the Potato Famine, millions starving while Great Britain continued to export food from Ireland, in British Colonial Bengal in both 1770 and 1943 (famines in India during the 18th, 19th and 20th century killed 30,000,000), and in Vietnam under the French in which, according to James Scott, 3,000,000 people starved.

In all of these famines, class war was at least as much a factor as ethnic chauvinism and ethnic hatred. All of them were, to a certain extent, a struggle for control of whatever meager economic surplus agriculture provided in the various societies.

Posted by: William Verick | Nov 26 2022 19:08 utc | 58

@ Hermit

Did you read this part?

It is not our intention to minimize Lysenko’s mistakes and to exalt his contributions, but we must try to see things in their right proportion. Actually, some of Lysenko’s work had a certain scientific merit, which was recognized internationally. For example, it was Lysenko who coined the term vernalization, which is now still an extant scientific term and frequently appears in Nature, Science, Cell and many prestigious journals. In addition, some of Lysenko’s work was highly praised by world-famous scientists. For example, in early 1930s, Vavilov repeatedly place a high value on Lysenko’s contributions to science and agricultural production. As he said, ‘Lysenko is a careful and highly talented researcher. His experiments are irreproachable’.9 In 1964, Haldane made an objective comment: ‘In my opinion, Lysenko is a very fine biologist and some of his ideas are right’.10 Of course, we also recognize that some of Lysenko’s ideas were wrong and badly wrong. His biggest mistake was mixing science and politics. He regarded Mendelian genetics as ‘bourgeois science’ and forced Soviet geneticists to accept Michurinism, for which he got a bad reputation.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 26 2022 19:12 utc | 59

Collectivization and Industrialization were the twin pillars of the 30s plan

Whatever the poor planning on the former and its dire consequences for many and not only in the recently created Ukraine, without the latter the Soviets would not have been resource-capable of defeating the Nazis in WWII - Kursk being a prime example.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Nov 26 2022 19:13 utc | 60

No matter the numbers etc. the extraordinary level of hatred and atrocity perpetrated by the largely Jewish leadership on Christians and others is truly horrific. It's amazing to me how many insist on being apologists for these psychopaths, many of whose descendants are now running the show in the West - partly thanks to all the enablers.

Here's a little piece I found from a search. Of course so much is scrubbed these days about anything even vaguely controversial that it's hard to find anything. But this simple piece slipped through. It doesn't prove millions of murdered necessarily, but more important than head counts it does show a concerted attempt using violence and atrocity to suppress Christianity in Russia.

https://thebridgehead.ca/2018/05/01/in-historys-bloodiest-persecution-of-christians-the-russian-communists-murder-millions/

I remember 20+ years ago reading reports of people in Ukraine having their limbs severed and thrown into buckets whilst they were still alive. And I think in St. Petersburg one abbot was boiled alive in the huge pot they had and all the monks forced to eat the resultant soup after which the tops of their skulls were sawn off, then they had to eat the brains of their neighbour's skull until they all died.

Many here insist that the Holodomor was an honest mistake. Possible. But they also refuse to acknowledge the horrors perpetrated earlier which did indeed murder millions though one can argue about how many ad infinitum. But that denial makes their insistence on the innocence of the leadership during the Holodomor highly suspect.

Posted by: Scorpion | Nov 26 2022 19:13 utc | 61

From Google:

Usually a barrel on a modern artillery system, like the M777, must be replaced after firing up to 2,500 rounds.

From Wiki:
2 to 7 rounds per minute.

So used intensively they could wear out fast. But the Telegram channels (Rhybar etc) seem to indicate a limited life!

Oldengineer

Posted by: Oldengineer | Nov 26 2022 19:14 utc | 62

From the source which i posted before

"
I assume that by the Holodomor hoax you mean a huge exaggeration of a number of victims in the Soviet famine of 1933. The famine itself was very real and cost many lives. The total number of deaths from all causes in Ukraine in 1933 was ~1,3 million and excess mortality was over 0,4 million. Which is huge by any standard. The real deaths from hunger were rare though, the main causes were cardiovascular diseases, tropical malaria and typhus with which very rudimentary local health care systems couldn’t cope.

Now to the question. The term Holodomor itself appeared relatively late. It first appeared in 1982 in Harvard’s Ukrainian Studies centre and widely circulated in 1984–1986 when the Reagan administration actively promoted it. It lost popularity afterwards but was revived in the 2000s in Ukraine when local political situation required it.

The idea however was old. The news about a huge famine that cost millions or even tens of millions of lives predate the famine itself by several years. The first articles about it are dated 1930.

Their source was the Brüder in Not, or Brethren in Need, a German organization established to help Germans who lived outside Germany proper. In fact, this one was a front for the German intelligence.

The Brüder in Not first announced themselves in 1929, when they defended the right of the Soviet Germans to leave the USSR. It was a failure though: Moscow agreed to let them go but it was suddenly turned out that Germany could not accept their new citizens. It was the Great Depression after all and Germany was not exactly a wealthy country. A very few left for South America, mainly Paraguay and Argentina.

During this first operation the Brüder in Not created a network of connections in the USSR. It was centered around the Embassy in Moscow and connected to various German settlements and joint ventures in the USSR, mainly in Russia and Ukraine.

It seems that in 1930 a decision was made to pedal on the food problems in the USSR. These problems indeed existed there from roughly 1928. In fact, they were the main reason why the government decided to insist on establishing kolkhozes, or collective farms, as the main form of agriculture in the country.

The Brüder in Not was not wealthy establishment. They found several reporters in need and contracted them to travel to the USSR and write along a certain scenario. At the same time they contacted the Moscow embassy and consulates all over the country and ask their contacts among soviet Germans to write letters on how dire their situation was.

This was mainly done in 1931–1932 and resulted in a book published on January 1, 1933 under the title Dokumente der Hungersnot unter den deutschen Volksgenossen in Rußland, or The Documents of the famine among the German comrades in Russia.

There was however a major hole in the whole adventure. There simply was no hunger there. The Soviet Union in the beginning of the 1930s was a very open country. Hundreds of thousands Westerners lived and worked there, tens of thousands travelled through the country. Granted, the USSR was a poor country, people lived in dire conditions and many remained extremely critical of the regime. However, stating that there was a universal hunger was considered a serious overstretch. Too many eyes saw the real situation and great many voices would be raised against the lie.

Moreover, to put it bluntly there was little empathy for Germans after WWI, especially in Europe. More victims were needed. These were tried to be found among Ukrainians.

German intelligence had many contacts among the Ukrainian organizations in Poland. The first working contacts were established already in the early 1920s. The main connection was the Abwher but I guess the Brüder in Not also were in touch (this I could not substantiate with documents so far). The common goal of German-Ukrainian cooperation was apparently anti-Polish but general anti-Soviet stance was also quite strong among the Galician (that is Ukrainians in Poland) organizations.

This cooperation led to a short-lived press campaign that started in the summer of 1933 and continued through 1934. The results again were minimal as too many eyewitnesses couldn’t confirm it.

The main voice against was arguably the French Prime-Minister Édouard Herriot who visited Ukraine in the summer of 1933 together with a group of leading French politicians. Herriot was of course a leftist, he was however a real anti-Communist and his observations were listened to with more attention than opinions of impoverished reporters, some of whom didn’t even go to Ukraine or the USSR. Herriot was in the company of other prominent Westerners, such as Dean of Canterbury Hewlett Johnson, which saw the situation themselves and reported it to the general public.

The Ukrainian taint to the German hunger cliche soon disappeared and in fact was rarely, almost never, used during the WWII in German Ukrainian propaganda efforts. There was an attempt to revive it in the US right after the WWII in the height of the Cold War but again it was almost futile.

It remains unclear who was the puppet-master behind the original propaganda. So far I have two names in mind.

One was Otto Schiller, a German diplomat in Moscow, who actually bombarded Berlin with reports on hunger among the Volga and Crimean Germans. He was in fact the source of almost all publications in British and American press in the early 1930s.

Another was Ewald Ammende, a co-founder of the Association of German Minorities in Europe and General Secretary of the Congress of European Nationalities. Ammende, a Baltic German, was a close associate of Alfred Rosenberg, the head of the NSDAP Office of Foreign Affairs who also led Amt Rosenberg, an official Nazi arm for cultural policy and surveillance. The latter was actually the main Nazi intelligence body which by far exceeded the more famous Abwehr in scope of operations.

Both names led us to Alfred Rosenberg, a man who tried to be the main Nazi ideologue. Logically, he would be the one behind the curtains in this case. His name however was never officially associated with the campaign and I never saw any documents that directly state he was involved. He widely used its results though: the allegedly sorry state of Germans outside Germany was the main prerequisite of the German expansion after all."

Posted by: 600w | Nov 26 2022 19:16 utc | 63

"Marx was neither a Jew nor a Zionist, nor did he want to persecute or kill orthodox Christians.

Posted by: Nobody | Nov 26, 2022 18:18 utc | 40"

Are you sure about this? Wasn't Marx Jewish?
Do some research and let us know.

Posted by: Athanasios | Nov 26 2022 19:16 utc | 64

Posted by: Hermit | Nov 26 2022 18:31 utc | 45

Thanks for that Google drive document link. I downloaded it for future reference.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 26 2022 19:21 utc | 65

Canada's parliament declared Holodomor a historic "fact" back in 2008.

"Canada is one of 17 countries worldwide who have declared the deaths a genocide."

Posted by: jayc | Nov 26 2022 18:15 utc

Just more proof that governments change, but policy doesn't. That was Harper's CONS. Polievre and the Con-braintrust has been careful to keep his "mentor" Harper out of sight after the polls dropped dramatically after Little Prince Stevie's "endorsement".

Posted by: Old canadian | Nov 26 2022 18:38 utc | 47

Too many Ukrainian voters in Canada to do otherwise. We are about to get a whole bunch more.

I lived in the heart of the Ukrainian diaspora in Toronto (Bloor West) for decades and it is my observation is they do not handle complex situations and arguments very well. Also an inferiority complex masquerading as a national identity. Supposedly intelligent people claiming that West Toronto was founded by Ukrainians when a title search on any property showed it was English, Scots, Irish and a few Germans who did the original settlement.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Nov 26 2022 19:21 utc | 66

There's a reason why modern militaries consist of 20% combat forces and 80% support troops--the complexity of arms employed and realization over many wars as to the performance of fit troops over unfit troops as in fed; clothed; medically cared for; rotation to rear for rest, reorganization, showers (hygiene), entertainment; etc. The only military forces where that doesn't apply are in Navies and Air Forces, where those involved in combat can be seen as either few or all with Navies or very few--pilots--in Air Forces. Bureaucratic components within militaries ought to be classified as non-support, IMO.

When clerks, drivers, and other bureaucratic "troops" start being used as combat forces, that army is in extremis.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 26 2022 19:22 utc | 67

@Nobody 50

The prototypes for christinanity were collective cultures (the community of the poor (in spirit)) and Communist in organization. See Acts 2:42–47 and 4:32–37 as well as the many references to food distribution systems, and regulation in the Pauline epistles. We also have non biblical references to this, from Lucian's reference to how gullible christers communities were, to Didache's descriptions of the communities and the leadership early of the early church regulating in very precise detail the mechanics of distribution and sharing "from each according to their ability to each according to their need."

The most successful christer communities of all time, the Cathars, adopted a similar system (until their destruction in the First Crusade).

Which I think leaves your ridiculous assertions in tatters.

The fact that christer scriptures regard only two people as being described as the bright and morning star (Venus or Lucifer), the christer's god-man, the so-called "Jesus" (not actually a Hebrew. Aramaic or even Greek name at the time, but the acronym of a rabbinical curse) and ha'Satan (the Jewish "opponent" (in a misunderstanding by Jerome of the morning star, Lucifer (L.) and Isaiah 14 (which actually refers, with the benefit of hindsight, to the fallen King of Babylon) makes your use of "commi-satanism" even more stupid than ironic.

Posted by: Hermit | Nov 26 2022 19:32 utc | 68

Are you sure about this? Wasn't Marx Jewish?
Do some research and let us know.

Posted by: Athanasios | Nov 26 2022 19:16 utc | 64

---

Marx was atheist.

Religion is the opiate of the masses.

Posted by: Nobody | Nov 26 2022 19:33 utc | 69

@Posted by: Generation X | Nov 26 2022 17:54 utc | 31

Your Nazi lies have been utterly debunked by respectable scholars of drought and famine, such as O'Grada. The early 1930s drought (and it was a natural caused drought) was made worse by the class war with the kulaks (who destroyed much of the livestock and implements and were attacked by their ex-tenants, the Soviet officials actually attempted to reduce these attacks), together with some incompetence/slowness of response by the Soviet authorities.

Once collectivization was implemented the Soviet Union did not suffer any of the regular famines that it had previously suffered - collectivization stopped the regular famines. Stalin was also desperate to industrialize the Soviet Union so that it could withstand the inevitable Western invasion - without that 100 million+ Slavs would have been genocided/forced eastwards across the Urals to create the Nazi lebensraum.

The opening of Soviet-era archives have also destroyed the credibility of much of the Cold War propaganda about the gulags etc. and the scale of the security services killings in the 1930s (as well as those of the fabulists Solzhenitsyn and Krushchev). Stalin was a tough bastard who killed a lot of people to maintain power and make the Soviet Union strong enough to withstand the Nazis (and the West in general that was continuously trying to destroy the revolution), and he made mistakes in an era rent with subterfuge and paranoia. Just like Churchill who was happy to poison gas the populations of the Middle East and was an admirer of Il Duce. Just like the anti-semitic Roosevelt.

Outright lies do not belong on this forum, which is one where actual adult conversations happen. We are in a third Cold War, and the Western genocidal, neo-colonial, land-thieving elites and their minions are attempting to libel those that fight against the cancer that they have spread across the world for the past few centuries. We should expect no less from such people. It is a mark that there is too much truthfulness here for those elites and their minions to deal with.

Posted by: Roger | Nov 26 2022 19:34 utc | 70

@Old canadian 47

As usual, their "historic fact" is a judicial fiction ;-)

Posted by: Hermit | Nov 26 2022 19:36 utc | 71

Just about any idiot country that has bought the complacent MIC natzos weapons systems must be wondering just how good they are? Especially if not fully backed up with ‘contractors’ sent to maintain and even operate them.
Boeing was a tip of that iceberg of dodgy materiel.

Without overpowering air and missile bombardment and no fly zone, no artillery or defence against cheap slow plastic drones…none of the billions the Arabs have ‘invested’ are any good against the SCO’s armouries.

There can’t be a single natzo force anywhere in the world that will have any confidence with the data being collected from Ukraine.

The death by a thousand needles is underway.

Only a surrender and withdrawal from the world they have been bullying, robbing and killing will save anything of the Empire.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 26 2022 19:41 utc | 72

Which I think leaves your ridiculous assertions in tatters.

---

No tatters here.

I myself have already noted in a posting that the early Christian communities in their social organization came closest to what one could call communism.

Posted by: Nobody | Nov 26 2022 19:43 utc | 73

Nice to read your commentary again Roger. Unfortunately, the Truth offends those raised on Lies as all too many of us were. A few of us have overcome that handicap but too many remain ignorant which is the goal of Plunderers so they can be employed in their schemes.

And in the above regards, kudos to S and a few others in their efforts to denounce the onslaught of crap.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 26 2022 19:47 utc | 74

Are you sure about this? Wasn't Marx Jewish? Do some research and let us know.

Posted by: Athanasios | Nov 26 2022 19:16 utc | 64

---

Marx was atheist.

Religion is the opiate of the masses.

Posted by: Nobody | Nov 26 2022 19:33 utc | 69

Marx was born to a Jewish family that converted to Lutheran when he was very young.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Nov 26 2022 19:51 utc | 75

@ Generation X | Nov 26 2022 17:54 utc | 31

It has always been my understanding that Stalin needed grain for export to purchase supplies for (above all military) industrialization.

Posted by: John Kennard | Nov 26 2022 19:52 utc | 76

@600w 43

Mainly good, but it needs to be seen in the historical context that hundreds of thousands died every year in the Russian Empire, which ultimately fell to revolution when food supplies collapsed after WW I.

See e.g. A">https://www.alexanderpalace.org/thompson/21bread.html>A Russian Bread Line Guarded by the Imperial Police at AlexanderPalace.org which has a depiction of the daily bread-lines guarded by Czarist police.

So no, while the 1928 drought exacerbated the perennial starvation which communism, collectivization and mechanized agriculture eventually ended. It is worth noting that an even more significant factor exacerbating this disaster was the USA encouraged demand that any food supplied to the USSR by the West or it's colonies be paid for in advance in scarce "hard currency" or gold.

Posted by: Hermit | Nov 26 2022 19:52 utc | 77

@Posted by: Opport Knocks | Nov 26 2022 19:21 utc | 66

They have a whole Nazi SS worship area, replete with monuments, in Oakville just west of Toronto. Another one in Edmonton. It is well known that the Western nations fostered numerous fascist organizations after WW2, including the 10,000+ Waffen SS members allowed to settle in the UK, US and Canada. They also never went to the aid of the Republicans in Spain, allowing the fascists to win. After WW2 the UK and US armies directly supported the implementation of a right-wing Greek government by destroying the left-wing resistance movement that had defeated the Nazis. Post-WW2 they also destroyed the Japanese left-wing and put the right-wing militarists LDP in place. The Western elites love fascists and dictatorships that follow orders, hates democracies that don't (like in Iran, Venezuela Guatemala, Nicaragua, Chile, Brazil, the Congo, Bolivia, Colombia ... the list is endless).

In the 1990s they supported the openly fascist Croatia in its ethnic cleansing of the Serbs (one third of the Croatian population),and the terrorist KLA in Kosovo. They also fed thousands of Muslim terrorists into Bosnia, a rat line later used to infest Syria. The whole Ukrainian fascist nationalism is a product of decades and many billions of work by the West, at the point when the Soviet Union collapsed there was relatively little nationalist feelings, as attested to by Ms. Freeland.

There is an old saying that "if you scratch a liberal you will find a fascist underneath". Gramsci's analysis of the Italian fascist movement shows it to be driven by the collapse of the bourgeois cultural hegemony, requiring a more authoritarian state to protect the owners against the increasing political awareness of the workers. The threat of fascism is very real in the West, but more on the lines of Wolin's "Inverted Totalitarianism" than the Nazi or Mussolini variety; especially as the West loses more and more of its global hegemony.

Posted by: Roger | Nov 26 2022 19:56 utc | 78

Apti Alaudinov: Russian kamikaze drones are successfully destroying Ukrainian equipment and manpower all along the line of contact

"We now have a huge number of loitering ammunitions and drones involved, we have started knocking them out in such a way that they suffer huge losses in both equipment and manpower," the Akhmat special forces commander said.

Alaudinov also said that as soon as Ukrainian troops fire a salvo from US HIMARS, the vehicle on which the system is installed is immediately "hunted down".

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/22479

Who knows, maybe the situation is getting better in this regard and in context of the good after action reports so far on repelling enemy attacks and wrecking hardware.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 26 2022 20:02 utc | 79

@Posted by: 600w | Nov 26 2022 19:16 utc | 63

Excellent background, thank you.

Posted by: Roger | Nov 26 2022 20:03 utc | 80

Taking apart CNN bullshit is fun to see

https://twitter.com/fredomhauer/status/1595847520533594114

Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 26 2022 20:05 utc | 81

How many Russians died of starvation during the German siege of Leningrad in WWII? Civilians were dying in the streets by lack of food !

Posted by: Leon Pastis | Nov 26 2022 20:07 utc | 82

The Ukrainiens have or had great capacities for music much like the Russians.
Composers and musicians like pianist Vladimir Horowitz, Violinist Nathan Milstein, Pianists Emil Giles and Sjatoslav Richter were born there and Martha Argerich's family as well as Yehudi Menuhin's have their origines in Ukraine. The great Violonists David and Igor Oistrach were from Odessa. This is rather amazing and should never be forgotten.

Posted by: Lily | Nov 26 2022 20:15 utc | 83

@Tom_Q_Collins 59

Lysenko was an influential Ukrainian scientist, but as is usually the case in the West, which always seeks to personalize the currents of history, his errors, influence and power are greatly exaggerated in order to inflate his responsibility for a massive death toll that simply did not happen. Neither do his detractors, who do not appear to understand that science is as much a social activity as anything else made by humans, which progresses by building more effective models over time, not a recipe for producing perfection, have any explanation, let alone a coherent one, for why a Ukrainian might have wanted the Ukrainian people to starve.

A reality is that having massively invested in industrialization that was threatened to be totally undone by deurbanization consequent to famine, the Soviet leadership which had no idea of the scale of crop failure transferred what would have been a reasonable share of what turned out to be sadly exaggerated crop forecasts to sustain industrialization, on the basis that people living in rural areas would be better positioned than city dwellers to grow and glean additional food.

The good news was that unlike others (e.g. the British in Ireland, South Africa and India) they were successful in preserving the investment in industrialization, and the positive impact on agriculture this had ultimately ended the catastrophic historic Malthusian cycle of feast and famine that had beset the region for millennia.

Posted by: Hermit | Nov 26 2022 20:21 utc | 84

" The businessman added that they are fighting in a British battalion as part of the Wagner PMC, commanded by a US citizen, ex-general of the Marine Corps.

Posted by: English Outsider | Nov 26 2022 17:01 utc | 5 "

If true the Wagner outfit is very naive. A British battalion ? An ex-general of the Marines ? What can go wrong ?

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Nov 26 2022 20:26 utc | 85

Exile | Nov 26 2022 17:20 utc | 15
I hear Sheldon Adelman funded the Comanche wars.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Nov 26 2022 20:28 utc | 86

@ Oldengineer | Nov 26 2022 19:14 utc | 62

The M777's were purpose designed for a unique niche role: Airmobile & Airborne light infantry, integral indirect ranged fire support. Only intended for limited immediate ranged indirect fire support pending relief by regular combined arms units. Ended up seeing limited periodic fire support re Counter-insurgency warfare.

Designed to be as light as possible & still be airportable. Never designed or intended as a regular Field Artillery Battery 155mm in sustained conventional Ops. Not durable nor rugged, operational compromises & complex recoil systems given too light weight require regular withdrawal to rear area maintenance repair shops, specialist parts, specialist techs after only minimum periods of sustained fire barrages. Entirely misused mis-purposed re AFU regular field Battery sustained fires usage.

Incredibly costly in all aspects from manufacture to maintenance. All 'round exorbitant $USD ? MICC loves 'em.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 26 2022 20:34 utc | 87

@Nobody - 26

Well yes, I think so. They have started two world wars, they killed 27 million Russians and 6 million yews. Being a German myself and remembering bits of WW2 i am watching the new beginnings of a fascist state with no press freedom and a tendency to be slaves to the US. Most of the main media are being paid by Bill Gates and the best journalists are without a job. To me and a number of friends this is all rather frightening.

Posted by: Lily | Nov 26 2022 20:34 utc | 88

The Ukrainiens have or had great capacities for music much like the Russians.
Composers and musicians like pianist Vladimir Horowitz, Violinist Nathan Milstein, Pianists Emil Giles and Sjatoslav Richter were born there and Martha Argerich's family as well as Yehudi Menuhin's have their origines in Ukraine. The great Violonists David and Igor Oistrach were from Odessa. This is rather amazing and should never be forgotten.

None of these greats would describe themselves as Ukrainian.

None of them could speak the so-called Ukrainian language.

None of them were born in any state called Ukraine.

Look at Horowitz and Milstein’s biography - Russian-Americans

Posted by: Night Tripper | Nov 26 2022 20:36 utc | 89

@William Verick 58

Yes, this is precisely the power dynamic that fuels most decision makers decisions. The decision to do things that give them more power. Simple as that. Couldve been anyone Ukrainians Armenians blacks etc...

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Nov 26 2022 20:48 utc | 90

"...A day in Ukraine is a month or more in Afghanistan," said Camilla Grand, a defense expert at the European Council on Foreign Relations...
Posted by: Down South | Nov 26 2022 18:01 utc | 32

in case there any doubts these people fully understand what they have done in Afghanistan. the problem in Ukraine is that the waste and consequent military collapse in defeat is happening *too fast*. Privatized defense contractors can now hold their "host" countries hostage: "if you want our stuff to work, pay us more! Or, just take a gander at Afghanistan...you turkeys..."

look! here comes the Holodomor. Just in time for Europe-wide deprivation. don't forget: it's Russia's fault! remember who to blame when Europe is flying Ukrainians to death camps in Rwanda and the ovens are stuffed w/kids (all from VZ, b/c russia) along the US-Mexico border.

you can always tell someone takes industrial mass murder seriously when they start mouthing off about the Holodomor. someone on this site fairly recently reminded us that millions died in the US at the exact same time, during the dust bowl. no biggie. not important.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Nov 26 2022 20:53 utc | 91

" reminded us that millions died in the US at the exact same time, during the dust bowl. no biggie. not important.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Nov 26 2022 20:53 utc | 91 "

Do you know of any materials that backs this up ?

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Nov 26 2022 20:56 utc | 92

@Opport Knocks 75
@Nobody 69

Everyone who is not psychotic incapable of differentiating between the imaginary and more than imaginary) is an atheist (not vesting belief in God thingies). Some atheists pretend that God thingies exist in a futile attempt to justify their prejudices to others. See e.g. Harris S et al (2008-10). The Neural Correlates of Religious and Nonreligious Belief. PLoS One. 2009; 4(10): e7272.

Posted by: Hermit | Nov 26 2022 20:57 utc | 93

@ karlof1 | Nov 26 2022 19:22 utc | 67

True for western Armies/formations dramatically less so for RF/PLA. Another reason why x number of western troops cannot be compared to x number of RF/PLA. Significant difference between actual % of x number of troops who are actual field combatants. Ie the tip & head of the spear as opposed to the shaft. West smaller spearhead, long shaft, RF/PLA larger spearhead, much shorter staff(Asagi)

Western fighter pilot & aircraft, require ~35 support staff. 1:35 ratio. RF ? 1:12.(IIRC)

Remember discussion re readiness, training, competent technical support, parts, maintenance, spares, re GAO & rest. That long Western spear shaft is rather brittle.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 26 2022 20:57 utc | 94

Thank you all for erudite discussion of history.
So much wisdom and myth shattering.
You have made my day.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 26 2022 21:01 utc | 95

@ Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 26 2022 19:41 utc | 72

Without overpowering air and missile bombardment and no fly zone(Empire Military Doctrinal Operational assumption), no artillery or defence against cheap slow plastic drones…none of the billions the Arabs have ‘invested’ are any good against the SCO’s armouries.

There can’t be a single natzo force anywhere in the world that will have any confidence with the data being collected from Ukraine.

Yes.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 26 2022 21:05 utc | 96

The term "holodomar" was introduced sometime in the mid 1950s in Canada by the Ukrainian expat community that was established there after WWII. These former Nazi supporters were jealous of the Jews who had the "holocaust" to promote their suffering during WWII.

Of course, as has been documented above, the Ukrainian fascists combined the loses in human life from the great famine from 1932 to 33 that extended from Kazakstan through Southern Russia and into Eastern Ukraine as a uniquely Ukrainian event that was caused by the Russians (who were led by a Georgian, at that time).

The famine was the result of multiple calamities (droughts and a crop fungal epidemic caused by unseasonal midsummer rains). But underneath it all, the propaganda campaign began with the Nazis and was continued by their Ukrainian followers ever since.

Given that this neo Nazi infestation of the Ukrainian diaspora has been going for 75 years by now I think Putin is being a bit overly optimistic if he thinks it can denazified now.

Posted by: Toivos | Nov 26 2022 21:06 utc | 97

Scorpion | Nov 26 2022 19:13 utc | 61
you are so funny. you, donald trump, and christians are the most persecuted people in human history. ever. we know this because of how much you whine constantly about how persecuted you are. if only Jesus and Paul whined as much as you about what victims all of you are who own and run (or control) everything on the planet that's not in China. when will someone finally wipe you all out like you've done countless others, so we can just read about your heroic martyrdom, at our leisure and pleasure, instead of hearing your do-not-a-thing-except-kill-for-mammon complaining in real time?

anybody bitching about christians being persecuted is looking to start a Crusade. "Christians are the most persecuted religion in the world." This quote used to be in the wikipedia article on "christianity." until, my one interaction with wiki, i bitched to the page host that the source for that quote was Prince fucking Charles. yeah, nazi scum are the real victims.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Nov 26 2022 21:08 utc | 98

Belarus foreign minister dies suddenly at 64 - one day after meeting Pope's envoy amid speculation they were discussing secret peace plan to end Ukraine war

Lavrov's spokeswoman said Russia was 'shocked' at his passing.

No cause of death was given - but several sources speculated that his demise could be suspicious.

Makei was described as 'healthy'.

He was seen as eyeing the Belarus presidency in the event of Lukashenko quitting - and was a former chief of staff to the tyrant

Oh boy....The relational against a few western diplomats could be silent and quick if their suspicions prove correct.

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 26 2022 21:11 utc | 99

Scorpion | Nov 26 2022 19:13 utc | 61
"no matter the numbers"
yeah, what counts is that your feelings got butthurt.

it's not even possible that communism arose in order to reject your religion, is it? it must be a gigantic conspiracy...that people don't believe like you.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Nov 26 2022 21:13 utc | 100

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