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November 22, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-206
Comments
@Neofeudalfuture
Must be magic mushroom season.
Posted by: Don Firineach | Nov 23 2022 15:45 utc | 201
The dumb fuckers in EU make me nearly wish for a real WWIII, so that the bulk of these retards can be eventually hanged or shot. If you want to go against the “SMO”, accuse Russia of committing war crimes – heck, all sides commit them in all wars, so it’s not that hard -, but “terrorism” is peak stupidity. A common worm has more braincells than most of the EU parliament.
The good thing is that they should now officially be a target for Russian missiles in case things go very badly.
Bottom line: this fucking joke of a Union should be cancelled as soon as possible, and something else should be built in its place.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Nov 23 2022 15:46 utc | 202
The UN was put in New York to ensure that the US remained part of it. That may be reason enough to keep UN HQ there, despite the US’s recent misbehaviour in impeding certain foreign diplomats’ access. A world without the US in the UN is a more dangerous one; Switzerland’s abandonment of neutrality is more troubling and damaging to UN institutions, IMO.
Posted by: Thomas Bergbusch | Nov 23 2022 15:48 utc | 203
“Georgian Legion Carries Out ISIS-Style Executions in Ukraine—with Covert U.S. Support”
By Evan Reif
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2022/11/23/georgian-legion-carries-out-isis-style-executions-in-ukraine-with-covert-u-s-support/?mc_cid=3c0f6789f3&mc_eid=f5d74d7021
Posted by: bevin | Nov 23 2022 14:30 utc | 178
Whenever stuff like this comes around I frequently think back about this character.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/06/el-salvador-iraq-police-squads-washington
What I can’t figure out is why he was outed so blatantly. I though the System protects them like Fort Knox.
Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 23 2022 15:51 utc | 204
@Paul Greenwood | Nov 23 2022 14:15 utc | 174
You are right. Covid “Vaccines” showed just how compliant a large group of the populace would be…….that destroyed Democracy ………it showed Obedience
That is exactly right. I stated from day 1 that it was nothing but a huge exercise in obedience-training. We can now see that the training worked.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 23 2022 15:59 utc | 205
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Nov 23 2022 15:43 utc | 199
For whatever odd reason, countries like Japan or China have been using masks in cases of respiratory tract infection for ages, and they don’t seem to be destroyed by it.
Go figure, I guess we западники in general are just delicate lilies who wilt the moment we get told it’s bedtime, and far asians really are made of different stuff.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Nov 23 2022 16:00 utc | 206
Posted by: farm ecologist | Nov 23 2022 14:16 utc | 175
I sense some innuendo and I concur. However, for those that may not be aware, the US applying pressure to the Patriarch of Constantinople ( Head of Orthodoxy) has caused him to allow the Ukrainians to have their own autonomous Orthodox Church .
This is controversial, as Russia was given autonomous status by Constantinople centuries ago. Consequently , Ukrainian Orthodox churches were thus dependent from Russia till now.
This has caused heartbreak even amongst the Greek Orthodox ie Greeks of Greece and former Greek lands ie those in Lebanon and Syria.
Note Poroschenko likely makes no mention of the “Greek Catholics” or Uniates ,as they are the bulk of the Galicians/West Ukrainians ; the spine of the UkroNazis. These are nothing but those former Greek Orthodox (RussianOrthodox) Rusyns/Ruthenes/Russians who came under Polish/Lithuanian rule in the 1500s and thus became forcefully – Catholicised ie retain Orthodox forms but owe spiritual allegiance to the Vatican. It is my personal bugbear that they did not not come back to Orthodoxy when the Russian Empire and later still Soviet Russia took those parts back.
Posted by: Brother Ma | Nov 23 2022 16:01 utc | 207
In response to Zanon@192,
I don’t believe that it would be a prudent step to take for the Russians. They have their own designation, so called “unfriendly state,” with defined legal ramifications, which they can apply selectively and whose legal consequences they are at a liberty to expand. Calling all of the EU member states, or NATO member states, “sponsors of terrorism” would be a very broadly applied statement that, even if empty, could be used by Russian politicians as a moral argument for limitations in trade and other interactions that wouldn’t be beneficial for Russia. Why impose limits on yourself over an empty gesture?
The US obviously isn’t in a hurry to follow the Europeans in this, since for them there are practical ramifications to applying this designation. Meaning, they would actually have to stop certain ongoing interactions with Russia, whereas for the EU it’s just words on paper that don’t have to mean anything, although as with the Russian case they could potentially serve as a pretext for political posturing.
In all honesty, if it has to come to that, I would be more appreciative if Russia officially designated the EU as being under the control of shapeshifting reptilians.
Posted by: Skiffer | Nov 23 2022 16:04 utc | 208
Posted by: Don Firineach | Nov 23 2022 15:45 utc | 200
My thought exactly upon reading that.
Mashing western propaganda/hate with Russia sympathies is a combination from hell. Brain chemistries are a mess in this way.
Posted by: alek_a | Nov 23 2022 16:05 utc | 209
⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦☢️ Breaking – Emergency Shutdown of Ukrainian Nuclear Power Plants⚡️
After today’s massive Russian strike, media reports of problems at nuclear facilities in Ukraine immediately started pouring in.
First the South Ukraine nuclear power plant in #Nikolaev Oblast went into emergency mode, followed later by the #Rivne and #Khmelnitsky nuclear power plants in the western part of the country.
The most probable cause of the accident was the failure of supply substations. This led to a sharp drop in the consumers of electricity generated by the NPPs, due to which the shifts on duty were forced to shut down the reactors and put them to work for the plants’ own needs.
🩸 Today, for the first time since the EIA began, all Ukrainian nuclear power plants have been “shut down” from the country’s power grid.
It is not out of the question that power engineers will be able to put the emergency circuits back together and restart some of the nuclear plants.
But what is happening is a good demonstration of the beginning of the disintegration of Ukraine’s unified energy system into separate, independent “islands”.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/21922
Posted by: Down South | Nov 23 2022 16:06 utc | 210
@Clueless Joe | Nov 23 2022 15:46 utc | 201
Bottom line: this fucking joke of a Union should be cancelled as soon as possible, and something else should be built in its place.
We have the countries in Europe. We do not need a central mafia like the EU, we do not need anything to replace it, except multipolarity and cooperation between nations.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 23 2022 16:09 utc | 211
margot @ 109
It is a good question and a full or even good answer would exhaust bandwidth. First let me say a lot of peace movement people here in US have spent time in prison, to include yours truly. Many comrades died there. The “movement” never pays any attention, if anything when prisoners are released the wormtongues of the State see to it they are ostracized. The departed are not mourned. Even in terms of historic martyrs, I was two years the last and only person to attend the annual pilgrimage to the Haymarket martyrs monument.
I am still marginally in touch with old peaceniks I marched with. Most are simply tribal. They never had a philosophy or a principle. They merely hung with a clique. So far as I know all those I am in touch with are Democrats, Obama groupies, covid believers. If that sort of mainstream politics is not enough they will be vegans or imagine their grandchildren are some new and previously unknown gender. And gender fantasies require their active support. Covid and gender are the main reason friends I have known 50 and 60 years limit contact. Peace? Haven’t heard that one in a while.
Eleven years and until a year ago I lived directly across the street from the house that was effectively Peace Central in my town. Never talked to them. They had constant visitors from around the planet who I did talk to. All the visitors were baffled by their hosts disengagement from their neighbors while actively corresponding with the whole world.
Before that I lived 17 years a mere six doors away from a lady who some would have as the leading American peace activist of the last thirty years. Completely unapproachable. I knew all the residents of the Catholic Worker House at the corner because they were my neighbors. Peace Lady you didn’t talk to unless you were versed in and appreciative of Jesuit theology. WTF?
Going back 50 years or more I have positive knowledge that all the leaders of anything I was involved in were working with .gov. All the leaders were upper class. I presume it is the same now. Rank and file are led this way and that until confused or exhausted. Controlling who gets to play leader is childs play for any who are organized. Your owners and rulers are organized.
Most people want peace. Try to organize that sentiment, you meet the State quickly. Currently even those who sincerely and fervently want peace have learned that Russia Russia Russia is the main obstacle to peace. So peace means We Stand With Ukraine.
Just looked at the dead tree NYT, above the fold only. Today the lead story is Ukraine is winning, Russia is losing badly. Utter fantasy but it can be sold. Peace means supporting Azov.
Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 23 2022 16:10 utc | 212
For whatever odd reason, countries like Japan or China have been using masks in cases of respiratory tract infection for ages, and they don’t seem to be destroyed by it.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Nov 23 2022 16:00 utc | 205
LOL… they wear masks now, because after decades of doing this their bodies can no longer generate the correct or a sufficiently fast immune response. If anyone wishes their body to become dependent on this or one of many other technological or pharmaceutical crutches, that is their perogative. In some cases it is 100% necessary.
Just respect my rights not to do so.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Nov 23 2022 16:10 utc | 213
Skiffer
I understand your thorough point however relations is non existent with the EU by now so Russia need to hit EU with the same slander. There is no one to talk to at the EU anyway.
Russia cannot just sit by when being attacked like this, so they should attack EU with the same declaration and lets see how they feel about it, that is how you deal with this idiocy otherwhise they will just keep on.
Posted by: Zanon | Nov 23 2022 16:16 utc | 214
@ 97 nomad..
interesting book… hard to get a copy for under 100$.. thanks for drawing it to our attention..
Posted by: james | Nov 23 2022 16:24 utc | 215
@ oldhippie | Nov 23 2022 16:10 utc | 211
last paragraph of your post on nyt.. that is so sad.. but the nyt has always carried water for the military-banking and energy complex… apparently this is the continued pathway they want to take – war, war and more war..
Posted by: james | Nov 23 2022 16:26 utc | 216
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/21922
Posted by: Down South | Nov 23 2022 16:06 utc | 209
But what is happening is a good demonstration of the beginning of the disintegration of Ukraine’s unified energy system into separate, independent “islands”.
The longer the SMO continues the more the brilliance of the Russian general staff reveals itself.
Each surgical act accumulates to form a symphony, it’s terrifyingly beauty only apparent once the outlines of its shape takes form.
The act of carefully deconstructing a dangerous nuclear energy grid has never before been done in the history of mankind.
Again, another first by the Russians: having led man into space, they now show how to destroy while still showing consideration for human life.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 23 2022 16:27 utc | 218
For whatever odd reason, countries like Japan or China have been using masks in cases of respiratory tract infection for ages, and they don’t seem to be destroyed by it.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Nov 23 2022 16:00 utc | 205
Do their kids sit in class all day long wearing those masks ?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18500410/
Are you sure Chinese were wearing masks pre-Con-19 because they were worried about bacteria/viruses in the air ?
I put my bet on smog and particulate matter in the air.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9362849/Pollution-levels-charts-Beijing-worst-sandstorm-decade-brings-yellow-smog.html
Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 23 2022 16:29 utc | 219
I think Russia is past the goal of trying to “regime change” Zelensky, or any political objective in Ukraine for that matter. For them, Ukraine no longer exists as anything more than as a piece of land, which is used by Nato trying to wage an offensive war.
In this context, it makes sense to disable electricity across all land of Ukraine in order to hinder potential Nato offensive attempts through it. All other considerations are tertiary, or non-existent. Few more times and it’s finished, like, for the next several years, during which the war will be resolved somehow.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 23 2022 16:33 utc | 220
@ unimperator | Nov 23 2022 16:33 utc | 219
i agree with you..
Posted by: james | Nov 23 2022 16:34 utc | 221
Just looked at the dead tree NYT, above the fold only. Today the lead story is Ukraine is winning, Russia is losing badly. Utter fantasy but it can be sold. Peace means supporting Azov.
Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 23 2022 16:10 utc | 211
Too many people are losing their sense of Reality because the physicians in the US are out of control thanks to how the medical practice/licensing has been setup (mafia).
https://www.bqprime.com/onweb/nearly-one-in-two-americans-takes-prescription-drugs-survey
https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2019/01/18/opioids-payments-doctors-overdose-deaths/
https://www.wired.com/2013/05/afghan-poppies/
The price to be payed for this is being dished out as we converse,
https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/a-newly-hired-american-airlines-regional
Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 23 2022 16:40 utc | 222
◾During the Russian Armed Forces’ missile strike on energy facilities in Kiev, some of the debris fell on a residential building. Ukrainian media traditionally blamed Russia for the attack on civilian infrastructure, but the pictures from the site of the incident contain some very curious details.
◾For example, in one of the photos you can see a piece of debris with the word “LIFT” written in Latin. As our German colleagues from the @Ubersicht_Ukraine_Kanal channel note, the marking is fully identical to that on the engine of the AIM-120 missile. Which, in turn, are part of the ammunition of NASAMS 2 supplied to Ukraine.
◾So the residents of Kiev can once again “thank” the Ukrainian air defense system (and now the American military-industrial complex) for the destruction of the residential infrastructure of the city.
Posted by: Down South | Nov 23 2022 16:42 utc | 223
quote from the wire services
“While Western sanctions already mean Russian seaborne crude is now mostly sold in Asia, the trade still mainly involves European shippers and insurers who would be barred from transporting cargo above the capped price. Ambassadors from the 27 EU countries were discussing the G7 proposal with the aim of reaching a common position by the end of the day.
A European diplomat said the price cap being discussed would be in the $65-70 US per barrel range. Russia’s Urals crude blend already trades at around $70 a barrel, a steep discount to other benchmarks, as a result of sanctions.”
it is an interesting approach similar to how the mafia works… i wonder if the ambassadors from the 27 eu countries associate much with the mafia?? they’ve definitely learned the tactics..
Posted by: james | Nov 23 2022 16:46 utc | 224
I am reading that Germany is sending its Patriot missiles to Poland….Hmmm
Now that Ukraine is going down for the count, I think that Poland is next up on Russia’s agenda, correct?….what is the shortest distance to Poland from Russia? through Ukraine or do they use other forces?
The SMO continues
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 23 2022 16:46 utc | 225
Down South | Nov 23 2022 16:42 utc | 222
that will not be reported on the wire services or in the msm…
Posted by: james | Nov 23 2022 16:47 utc | 226
In response to Zanon@213,
Russia retains productive relations with individual states that are both members and associates of EU and NATO. Attempts by the aforementioned organizations to disrupt these ties in contravention of the interests of individual states only serves to introduce disharmony in these superstructures and ultimately makes them weaker. I don’t believe Russia is interested in stopping this development, even if it means reacting to insults in more a measured way than you would like. To burn bridges over petty insults, thus driving away states which are more pragmatic in their foreign policy, and cementing their block status by depriving them of any alternative, would ultimately be counterproductive.
Posted by: Skiffer | Nov 23 2022 16:47 utc | 227
Norwegian @ 210
We have the countries in Europe. We do not need a central mafia like the EU, we do not need anything to replace it, except multipolarity and cooperation between nations.
I weighed it out back in 2000 and decided I was for Eurolandia, I thought it would be the beginning of a counterpoise against the USA homogenization and crapification of everything. I couldn’t have been more wrong.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 23 2022 16:48 utc | 228
@ psychohistorian | Nov 23 2022 16:46 utc | 224
aren’t those patriot missiles american? regardless, i don’t think russia is interested in expanding the zone of the smo.. nato is though..
Posted by: james | Nov 23 2022 16:48 utc | 229
james @ 223
it is an interesting approach similar to how the mafia works… i wonder if the ambassadors from the 27 eu countries associate much with the mafia?? they’ve definitely learned the tactics.
If they wanted to the USA and Eu could wipe out the mafia tomorrow, they don’t because why would they wipe out their best part? Laws are for suckers, once you get above the plebs it’s all one entity.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 23 2022 16:54 utc | 230
^^^ once you get above the plebs it’s all one entity.
Gramsci defined it as cultural hegemony.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 23 2022 16:56 utc | 231
Moldova is about to get a permanent blackout in both electricity and natural gas.
https://kingofromania.com/2022/11/23/maia-sandu-is-going-to-kill-us-all/
Posted by: Sam | Nov 23 2022 16:57 utc | 232
Posted by : hep | Nov 23 2022 15:10 utc | 190
wrote:
The ones surrendering at Azovstal with a huge number of tattoos is a good indicator. Add the right drugs, and they’ve got their own expendable private army of soulless killing machines for torturing, raping and pillaging anywhere in the world.
It’s good they are so eager to brand themselves , it makes it a lot easier to spot them.
Posted by: Anne B | Nov 23 2022 16:58 utc | 233
Anne B @ 232
It’s good they are so eager to brand themselves , it makes it a lot easier to spot them.
The stupid ones, the smart one wear bespoke suits and stay out of the limelight.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 23 2022 17:01 utc | 234
Posted by: Down South | Nov 23 2022 16:06 utc | 209
🩸 Today, for the first time since the EIA began, all Ukrainian nuclear power plants have been “shut down” from the country’s power grid.
I sure hope the nuclear power plants have enough diesel oil to run the emergency diesel generators to maintain cooling and achieve cold shutdown. Nuclear power plants should never be allowed to fall into a state, where they have to rely on diesel generators.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Nov 23 2022 17:02 utc | 235
Posted by : Zanon | Nov 23 2022 15:18 utc | 192
You seem disappointed Russia isn’t as stupid as your sponsors. I guess that is something.
Posted by: Anne B | Nov 23 2022 17:03 utc | 236
@LightYearsFromHome | Nov 23 2022 16:48 utc | 227
I weighed it out back in 2000 and decided I was for Eurolandia, I thought it would be the beginning of a counterpoise against the USA homogenization and crapification of everything. I couldn’t have been more wrong.
In 1994 we had a referendum on membership in Norway. The No-side said EU was becoming a centralized superstate depriving the countries of sovereignty. I voted NO because I could see it was true. Unfortunately I was correct.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 23 2022 17:05 utc | 237
@ LightYearsFromHome | Nov 23 2022 16:54 utc | 229
true!
Posted by: james | Nov 23 2022 17:09 utc | 238
Posted by : PP | Nov 23 2022 15:26 utc | 195
You might want to ask Puerto Rico. They still are suffering from the aftermath of hurricane Maria.
Posted by: Anne B | Nov 23 2022 17:09 utc | 239
@james | Nov 23 2022 16:24 utc | 214
http://libgen.rs/search.php?req=Stepan+Bandera%3A+The+Life+and+Afterlife+of+a+Ukrainian+Nationalist&lg_topic=libgen&open=0&view=simple&res=25&phrase=1&column=def
Posted by: Ranelagh | Nov 23 2022 17:11 utc | 240
reply to 192
I think the problem with calling Russia terrorist is that some EU idiots might go further and demand and end to all trade and diplomatic contact and abbrogation of all treaties……….. ’cause they’re terrorist.
All this nonsense has the effect of building a Cold war that would take years to remove.
Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 23 2022 17:14 utc | 241
Oil prices will be headed down for lack of demand. Depression time. China and India and global south will pick up some part of the slack, with less of a market in the West they will be turning inward and we will see how much they use.
Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 23 2022 17:17 utc | 242
Posted by: Sam | Nov 23 2022 16:57 utc | 232
https://kingofromania.com/2022/11/23/maia-sandu-is-going-to-kill-us-all/
I just read the post above in its entirety. I really know nothing about Moldova but it was nevertheless fascinating. Moldavians are going to be wiped out by monster energy bills, blackouts and unemployment. Nothing is more important to a functioning modern society than energy – and this leader has managed to screw them over in both electricity and natural gas.
It is also interesting how this f’ed up situation is tangled up with Ukraine.
The national leaders of so many countries (USA and Canada included) are either morons, or degenerate, compromised (blackmailed) individuals who do whatever their evil psychopathic overlords tell them to do. They are leading their citizens into economic disaster and couldn’t care less. Some of these leaders are both sociopaths and morons, while others, just sociopaths.
By comparison, Russia seems to be quite functional, intelligent and focused on its long term survival. This is a clear benefit to Russia and a disaster to the hapless populations of neighboring countries under the boot of an evil oligarchy.
Posted by: PP | Nov 23 2022 17:29 utc | 243
In response to Eighthman@241,
It’s an EU problem, since very few states could afford to cut Russia off completely even if such a decision is forced down their throat. As with sanctions, price caps and all of the other genius ideas, they’ll inevitably be forced to tailor the initiative to the needs of individual countries or create disunity in the union. In other words, water it down to the level of a wet squib. Taken to its logical conclusion, the EU will eventually need to impose limitations on interaction with states that continue normal relations with Russia, meaning most of the rest of the world, including EU member and associate states for which exceptions would have been made. In other words, acting on this initiative will set a precedent for developments that will only create infighting within the EU and worsen relations with non-EU states, with little to no cost to Russia.
Posted by: Skiffer | Nov 23 2022 17:34 utc | 244
Posted by: PP | Nov 23 2022 17:29 utc | 243
Agreed. I’m particularly disturbed by the number of hitherto neutral countries (Ireland, Switzerland, Austria, Finland) or countries which have sensibly been relatively neutral (Moldova) which have joined what they pronounce to be a civilizational war against Russia because of, I assume, corporate interests. It is depressing.
Posted by: Jeremn | Nov 23 2022 17:37 utc | 245
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 23 2022 17:01 utc | 234
Sure. But the stupid ones are doing the advertising. By the fruit you shall know them.
Posted by: Anne B | Nov 23 2022 17:48 utc | 246
Posted by: Brother Ma | Nov 23 2022 16:01 utc | 207
I was shocked to discover that the US/CIA/State department actively meddled in church affairs to segregate Ukrainian Orthodox from those Russian. If this is inappropriate to post here, let me know, but I wrote about this in early July: https://kristenburroughs.com/?p=4389
Posted by : Norwegian | Nov 23 2022 17:05 utc | 237
wrote:
In 1994 we had a referendum on membership in Norway. The No-side said EU was becoming a centralized superstate depriving the countries of sovereignty. I voted NO because I could see it was true.
I worked hard for that vote of yours. Handing out leaflet both on the streets, and in country-side mail-boxes. Not to mention all the hours spent on the organization. The night of the referendum, I spoke with a local journalist. He was afraid we would be left “on the platform”. I told him not to worry. He would get plenty of opportunities, if he really wanted to.
The sad part is that we for all intent and purpose – has the relation to EU my parents voted down in 72.
Posted by: Anne B | Nov 23 2022 18:00 utc | 248
@Anne B | Nov 23 2022 18:00 utc | 248
I worked hard for that vote of yours. Handing out leaflet both on the streets, and in country-side mail-boxes. Not to mention all the hours spent on the organization.
Thank you, well done!
The sad part is that we for all intent and purpose – has the relation to EU my parents voted down in 72.
Yes, that is true. We voted NO twice, but they had other methods.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 23 2022 18:26 utc | 249
@ Ranelagh | Nov 23 2022 17:11 utc | 240
thanks! for anyone interested ranelagh has provided a link to the book which was mentioned by nomad much earlier in the thread – i believe you can read it online for free in english by author Rossolinski-Liebe, Grzegorz
Stepan Bandera: The Life and Afterlife of a Ukrainian Nationalist
Posted by: james | Nov 23 2022 19:11 utc | 250
“Nixon managed to detach the PRC from the “second world” in 1972 (and after that the PRC allowed the DOD/CIA to setup a few bases on the southern border of the USSR)”
For entertainment value another amusing relevant quote from 1989:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1989/06/25/intelligence-ties-endure-despite-us-china-strain/f8b2789d-0f0c-4ea7-932b-9f4267a994a3/
“Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.), for example, declined to discuss any aspects of the partnership but said, “Whatever military or intelligence arrangements may or may not exist, they cannot add up to a sufficient rationale for failing to act swiftly and on principle with the Chinese government.” It was Biden’s 1979 conversation with senior Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping during a visit to Beijing that showed Deng’s willingness to permit the U.S.-equipped listening posts to help monitor Soviet compliance with the proposed SALT II arms limitation treaty. […]
Several sources indicated that U.S. experts are working at the stations in tandem with their Chinese counterparts and that there now may be more than two stations. “It depends on how you count them,” a longtime intelligence expert said. And a former defense official said, “It may very well be that there are principal stations and lesser stations.
[…] Soviet-U.S. relations worsened in December 1979 when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, on the eve of a projected trip to China by Defense Secretary Harold Brown. Deng had already made his public offer of Chinese-operated listening posts and, sources said, Brown picked up the discussion on his arrival in January 1980. Another goal of Brown’s visit was to win what one official described as a “significant acceleration” in Chinese shipments of arms and military equipment to the Afghan rebels, shipments that continued to grow under President Ronald Reagan. Washington considered the shipments of Soviet-style arms highly valuable because they afforded “deniability” for what was then a largely covert U.S. operation. Both China and the United States bought small arms for the rebels, sources said.”
The shadows of the past are long… 🙂
Posted by: Blissex | Nov 23 2022 19:20 utc | 251
«The Nazis in Europe during WW2 liked to call anyone who resisted their NAZI Rules Based International Order, terrorist.»
Actually usually they called them rightly “illegal combatants” (“banditen”) because they did not wear a uniform or distinctive symbols and were not part of an organized force, even if they attacked military targets. A,H, in particular was outraged that UK commandos circulated behind lines disguised in german uniforms (a nasty war crime, “perfidy”) or sometimes in civilian clothes, even if often they put on an UK army badge before carrying or using weapons (using weapons in only civilian clothes is also “perfidy”). There is some argument whether using civilian clothes without carrying weapons to prepare military actions is “perfidy”. Considering the humanitarian rationale I guess it is probably “perfidy”.
The laws of war are very clear that combat is between organized armies (the vital details are chain of command and identifiability), otherwise terrible degenerations can happen. There used to be for humanitarian reasons hard provisions for the punishment of illegal combatants and reprisals (decimation) against the civilians who might be their accomplices. Terrorists, whether legal or illegal combatants are instead those who target civilians as such (e.g. “Bomber” Harris).
Anyhow in propaganda there is an old distinctions between “our” freedom fighters (e.g. head choppers in Syria) and “their” terrorists (e.g. ethnic russian civilians in Donbas), and I was not surprised to read this:
“>https://www.oneindia.com/2013/05/22/gandhi-was-declared-terrorist-declaration-sold-cheap-1222573.html>
“Mahatma Gandhi was once declared a terrorist. And a rare British Parliament paper declaring the Father of Nation a terrorist in 1932, was sold for a pathetic sum of just £260 yesterday at an auction in London.”
Posted by: Blissex | Nov 23 2022 19:53 utc | 252
james@250
The link doesn’t work for me. The book costs $40+ paperback.
Posted by: bevin | Nov 23 2022 20:08 utc | 253
EU has ‘no right’ to Ukraine fatigue – Kiev
Delays in sanctioning Russia are unacceptable, Foreign Minister Dmitry Kuleba said
Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmitry Kuleba spoke to journalists as he arrived at the EU Informal Meeting of EU Foreign Ministers in Prague, Czech Republic on August 31, 2022.
The European Union must cast aside all doubts about new anti-Russia sanctions and double down on slapping Moscow with new restrictions that would curb its missile industry, Foreign Minister Dmitry Kuleba said on Tuesday.
Tiresome.
“…The sad part is that we for all intent and purpose – has the relation to EU my parents voted down in 72…” Anne B@248
And the Eu has the Constitution that France and the Netherlands voted down too. If Brussels doesn’t like the result it calls for a re-vote. Then the threats begin. Ask the Irish.
Posted by: bevin | Nov 23 2022 20:11 utc | 255
«associate peace movements with raggy, smelly hippies of the 1960s — not pleasant. To get a nice family man with kids and a suburban home to protest for peace means he has to mentally break that association.»
Rather the secret ingredient of neoliberalism that guarantees to it the slavish loyalty of the middle class is: booming real estate costs.
As long as those nice people with a “a suburban home” get their doubling of its valuation every 10 years they will never rock the boat (“don’t make waves”), they are deeply corrupted by the enormous amount they get redistributed from the lower classes.
Especially for older and retired people the profits they make and cash in from real estate are so gigantic that they care about very little else.
Posted by: Blissex | Nov 23 2022 20:13 utc | 256
Declaring Russia a state sponsor of terrorism is part of the machinations of Von der Leyen and her dreams of confiscating Russia`s $300b. Note also that they managed to stumble something similar across the line at the UN, where there were as many No/abstentions as Yes votes. But numerically it passed
They are working on legislation to make the seizure “legal”. Hence the rigmarole
Ukraine thinks its going to receive the bulk of that money. If and when it happens i suspect Russia will crank up the pain to the extent that double that money wont scratch the cost of the damage.
Most of that cash will be shared amongst unknowns anyway, Im sure of it
Posted by: DaVinci | Nov 23 2022 20:14 utc | 257
“Georgian Legion Carries Out ISIS-Style Executions in Ukraine—with Covert U.S. Support”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5153613/Gavin-Williamson-Brits-fighting-be.html
«Gavin Williamson signalled he was prepared to hunt down and use air strikes against the remaining 270 UK passport holders who have travelled to Syria and Iraq. In an interview with the Daily Mail, he said: ‘Quite simply, my view is a dead terrorist can’t cause any harm to Britain.’ […] Earlier this year, the Mail revealed that RAF pilots had been secretly assassinating British jihadists in Syria and Iraq, using drones and fighter jets to work through a ‘kill list’ of targets»
Whenever stuff like this comes around I frequently think back about this character. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/06/el-salvador-iraq-police-squads-washington
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/chilcot-inquiry-black-ops-in-iraq-caused-split-between-us-and-uk-7130996.html
«Some senior British officers were unhappy at what was going on and the involvement of the UK’s SAS and the SBS. “Why are we helping to run Latin American-style death squads?” One British commander, himself ex-SAS, demanded to know. The SAS were, on at least two occasions, barred from carrying out such missions in the British-run south of the country.»
Posted by: Blissex | Nov 23 2022 20:22 utc | 258
«In 1994 we had a referendum on membership in Norway. The No-side said EU was becoming a centralized superstate depriving the countries of sovereignty.»
That’s the usual ridiculous posturing: sovereignty is not a matter of shrill declamation, it is a about having power.
«I voted NO because I could see it was true. Unfortunately I was correct.»
Most of the countries outside the EU are either too poor or irrelevant to be accepted, or think that they have a special wealth that they don’t want to even potentially risk sharing with the lazy, greedy parasites of the southern or eastern states:
* Norway has the oil.
* Iceland has the fisheries.
* Liechtenstein and Switzerland have the tax evasion and money laundering.
* England has the Empire :-> (and the oil! and fisheries! and the tax evasion and money laundering! :->).
Posted by: Blissex | Nov 23 2022 20:29 utc | 259
@ Blissex | Nov 23 2022 19:20 utc | 251
PRC allowed the DOD/CIA to setup a few bases on the southern border of the USSR
Hm. Last time NYT 1981, now Washington Post 1989. How quaint.
However, NYT 1981/WP 1989 is not a credible primary source, or credible source at all, & not in 1981 or 1989, & not when quoting “according to senior American officials” “Several sources indicated” at the height of the Cold War.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Previously in response, was, A web search found ???
Dredging up 50 year old dis/mis/information(?) from the ‘Usual Suspects’ performing their assigned role … to what purpose, hm ?
And the Big Guy, back in his prime ?
Respectfully, you specifically asserted & have again highlighted & led with this repeated unique claim … where is your extraordinary evidence, primary credible source/s or declassified record/s, please ?
@ KR | Nov 23 2022 12:29 utc | 149
Yes indeed. Spot on. Seconding waynorinorway’s post.
Apologies re delayed reply, not well.
What may one get you at the Bar ? Prost!
@bevin | Nov 23 2022 20:08 utc | 253
Here is the link. The book can be read online or downloaded.
http://libgen.rs/search.php?req=Stepan+Bandera%3A+The+Life+and+Afterlife+of+a+Ukrainian+Nationalist&lg_topic=libgen&open=0&view=simple&res=25&phrase=1&column=def
Posted by: Ranelagh | Nov 23 2022 20:50 utc | 262
I could’nt open the links posted by Ranelagh and James. But I found Grzegorz Rossolinski-Liebe’s book Stepan Bandera: The Life and Afterlife of a Ukrainian Nationalist: Fascism, Genocide, and Cult on the Internet Archive:
https://archive.org/details/GrzegorzRossolinskiLiebeStepanBanderaTheLifeAndAfterlifeOfAUkrainianNationalist2014
An article from the same author:
https://www.infosperber.ch/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Rossolinski-Liebe_Galley_draft2.pdf
Posted by: Leuk | Nov 23 2022 21:25 utc | 263
Blissex @256–
Your assumption about how us aged and retired are beholden to Neoliberalism is false. Yes, the home we bought/built for our retirement has doubled in “value,” but if we sell where do we go? As our home’s valuation increases, the amount of property tax we must pay does too, and our COLAs don’t rise at a similar rate because the government falsifies the rate of inflation. I highly suggest you rethink your assumption for it’s wrong!!
Posted by: Mushroom | Nov 23 2022 21:50 utc | 265
@ oldhippie | Nov 23 2022 17:17 utc | 242
Yet, as demand drops re depression/recession in Empire, will not OPEC+ then decrease total supply again as is their wont, to bump up the floor price/average, due available total supply manipulation ?
IIRC when the Big Guy & EU complained about the upcoming reduction in production of 1M barrels/day along with G7 price caps, OPEC+ said ‘words to the effect, “Okay, starting Nov22, supply reduction is now 2M barrels per day. Would you like Freedumb Fries with that ?”
@ Blissex | Nov 23 2022 19:53 utc | 252
Actually Ze Germans, in both WWs, officially & formally used the term & descriptor of ‘Francs-tireurs’, due the explicit legal & historical implications thereof. Hm …
And now we are beginning to see the broad outlines of the result of American foreign policy — or Russian strategic policy, depending on your perspective – that will dominate what used be called “Europe” for the next generation.
What we are witnessing is the beginning of the long-term destabilisation of Eastern Europe. Forget about Ukraine. It will be at most a parking lot for the Russian military. The Baltic states, Belarus, Poland, Austria, Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia are the next battlefronts. Some – like the Baltics – will collapse easily. Others – like Poland and Belarus – will be nasty, bloody affairs. Austria and Hungary will probably seek and ultimately find a middle way. Despite premature declarations of its demise, Germany has the means to reassert its power and the Czech Republic will likely fall into its orbit. God knows what will happen to Slovakia.
All of this is inevitable. Meaning nothing can stop it now. It begins with the evacuation of the Ukrainian state which starts this weekend. Forget about the EU and NATO. Their life spans can now be measured in single yearly digit, though something will replace it. Probably something more dangerous and unstable.
What is also inevitable is civil war in Moldova, with a dozen little warlords taking root until things get sorted out. A long, long conflict that probably sets the stage for the next “thing” in the second half of the century, which will determine the fate of the Balkans.
A really big day in the history of Europe. Not as big in the history books, maybe, but big enough that a schmuck like me could figure it out. I wonder how many others see the big picture now?
Posted by: Larsen | Nov 23 2022 22:51 utc | 267
Posted by: james | Nov 23 2022 19:11 utc | 250
Posted by: bevin | Nov 23 2022 20:08 utc | 253
The Bandera Book is available for download at archive.org…
https://archive.org/details/GrzegorzRossolinskiLiebeStepanBanderaTheLifeAndAfterlifeOfAUkrainianNationalist2014
Should be on everyone’s go to list for older or hard to find material.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Nov 23 2022 22:51 utc | 268
Outraged
Have been thinking about why we had different views on the same incident. Blissex header – “Georgian Legion Carries Out ISIS-Style Executions in Ukraine—with Covert U.S. Support”
I guess I view Ukraine as no different to the caliphate in Iraq and Syria or Nazi Germany.
You seemed to come from a more legalistic point of view. Thoughts on this? Not the incident but the positions from which we look at it.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 23 2022 23:01 utc | 269
@ Peter AU1 | Nov 23 2022 23:01 utc | 269
My perceptive was deliberately restricted & constrained, intentionally detached & disengaged, to the currently known particulars of the specific incident. That is all that matters, re ‘incident’ objectivity, no ? Conflating with other events/claimed events is not relevant IMV. In previous ‘incidents’ you’ve drilled down into the detailed ‘specifics’ & ‘anomalies’, in isolation, yes ?
Modern War IS a legalized conflict, politics by other means, ie brute force of arms. The very formation, legal authorities, command and control of Armies down to the smallest 4 man fire-team is fundamentally a result of outcry re mid 18th century warfare & earlier, hence modern Laws of War starting with the formulation of the Hague conventions in 1907.
All operations & conduct of formed recognized military formations operate ‘within’ & ‘abide’ by the constrains of the relevant treaty conventions. Therefore, when a formed force breaches the Laws of War, ie Perfidy, they immediately lose ALL rights & protections, at that moment the normative Laws of War no longer apply.
Did you lookup up consequences of Japanese IJA IJN perfidy in WWII re surrendering Japanese ? Trivial % of POWs taken ?
Ignore any commentary or references to UN or NGOs or supposed experts with a few exceptions. The ICRC is THE responsible & monitoring authority. Hold all the relevant documents, explanations, as well as for example extracts from US UCMJ re definitions of war crimes including perfidy, other nations Mil Law too, along with historical examples & explanatory scenario’s.
See:
ICRC – Surrender
ICRC – Perfidy
ICRC – Conduct of Hostilities
ICRC – Combatants & POWs
For a full-on very deep dive:
International Humanitarian Law Guide – G P Sangroula
Re Blissex, slick, very slick indeed, ‘antonyms’ & ‘synonyms’ for ‘slick’ ?
Cheers mate
PS Would a typical REAL Aussie ever use this sentence structure/terminology when describing stenographers as “intel radical right neocon neoliberal colonialsts operators in Aus” ? Asking for a friend 😉 ?
Peace
@ Peter AU1 | Nov 23 2022 23:01 utc | 269
PS The AFU unit involved was IIRC, AFU regular Army Airborne, part of remnant original regular AFU Brigades prior Feb24. Not Nationial Corps, mercs, Banderites, etc … IIRC.
Opport Knocks | Nov 23 2022 22:51 utc | 268
Thank you.
Posted by: bevin | Nov 24 2022 0:01 utc | 272
Posted by: Brother Ma | Nov 23 2022 16:01 utc | 207
Posted by: KR | Nov 23 2022 17:55 utc | 247
Thanks for your replies and insights. No worries, KR, there is nothing inappropriate about your linked article. I was vaguely aware of the situation you describe, but had no idea that the yanks were fomenting the schism between Russian and Ukrainian churches. Is there any depth to which they will not sink?
Posted by: farm ecologist | Nov 24 2022 0:22 utc | 273
the EU by now so Russia need to hit EU with the same slander. There is no one to talk to at the EU anyway.
Russia cannot just sit by when being attacked like this, so they should attack EU with the same declaration and lets see how they feel about it, that is how you deal with this idiocy otherwise they will just keep on.
Posted by: Zanon | Nov 23 2022 16:16 utc | 214
So, Zanon, since when did you care anything about Russia. Every time I read one of your comments it seems that you are bad mouthing Putin, the SMO, the Russian MoD, and trashing everything that they are doing. I think I just read something from you from Feb. 23 MoA (yse tomorrows edition) about what a waste of ammunition it was to destroy infrastructure when RU could be taking out Ukraine leaders. You always seem to have a better idea about how to fight a war from the security of your armchair. Please state you real views and quit pretending that you give crap about Russia or the people living in hell in the Donbass regions.
Posted by: Ed Nelson | Nov 24 2022 0:36 utc | 274
Especially for older and retired people the profits they make and cash in from real estate are so gigantic that they care about very little else.
Posted by: Blissex | Nov 23 2022 20:13 utc | 256
I’m sure its true for the wealthier of this generation but I know plenty of people sitting on expensive realestate who can’t afford the rates. And plenty more who are leveraged to the hilt. They can’t even relax after a lifetime of productive work. This is just one more facet of predatory capitalism at work.
Yes I do agree that most of the middle class have been bought and paid for over the last 70 years of class and psychological warfare, but most of them will not be in a very good position in the new reality either. In such a culturally curated and politically suppressive milieu as Western democracy how could people learn that there are other options?
I feel very very lucky to have been rudely woken up to the realities of our society. So if hardship is what it takes for the many, then bring it on.
Posted by: K | Nov 24 2022 2:43 utc | 275
@ Sam | Nov 23 2022 16:57 utc | 232
I am delighted to see that Sam back.
A sharp, pungent writer at his best. Even when I disagree. (Like with Pattman, but better.)
Check out the Russian bear pic on the second page of the blog. Hilarious. (It’s the winter-gear that does it, I think.)
Posted by: John Kennard | Nov 24 2022 3:04 utc | 276
I recommend you call someone you trust and show them what you write here and tell them what you think is real.
Peace!
Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 24 2022 4:13 utc | 277
Chill out Sean, everyone here is some kind of weirdo including you.
if you protest too much over a joke people will think you are a British expat with no sense of humour.
Posted by: K | Nov 24 2022 4:27 utc | 277
“Unfortunately some people exist inside a false paranoid”—…‡
… The propaganda value of all those kills is”— Posted by: Wim ‡ Nov 23 2022 20:46 utc | 86
“I agree. The Russian forces need to show prowess on the ground and”—Posted by: MiniMo ‡ Nov 24 2022 4:29 utc | 203
Posted by: Laurence | Nov 24 2022 4:51 utc | 278
Apologies re delayed reply, not well.
Posted by: Outraged | Nov 23 2022 20:44 utc | 261
I see ads saying that you’re never to old to learn a new language.
So OK Outraged, here we go. The norsk way of saying get better is ‘god bedring’
It’s nothing to do with god, literally can mean (wishing) good improvement.
The ‘god’ means good and is pronounced like goo, rhymes with coup.
Might be on the midterm!
Appreciating your knowledge.
God bedring.
Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 24 2022 9:22 utc | 279
@ K #277
I’m chilled. Everything is good this end. 🙂
Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 24 2022 10:29 utc | 280
@ waynorinorway | Nov 24 2022 9:22 utc | 279
Thank you. Appreciate the sincere well wishes, shall endeavor to persevere.
Was actually certified in one foreign language as part of an accelerated 6 week course at one time, two score years ago. However, was never tasked in nor able to ’embed’ it. Can barely recall a single word. However when I was still drinking, if I got blind enough, I suddenly re-attained fluency … or was that just the booze talkin’ ? 😉
Use quality translation software to escape the western MSM matrix these days. Quite remarkable what is published outside, as opposed to inside, the insanely Kafka-esq narrative/omission filled/censorship/propaganda bubble, recently turned up to 11.
’80’s GDR Stasi would be wetting their briefs in envy.
Peace Salaam Shalom
Ukrainian prisoners of war will fight on Russia’s side
A battalion of Ukrainian prisoners of war has been formed in the Donetsk people’s republic, a representative of the region’s security agencies has told TASS.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/22090
The battalion will include 50 former Ukrainian servicemen who have voluntarily switched to the republic’s side, he said.
On September 24, the Ukrainian servicemen held in the colony in the settlement of Yelenovka turned to the people’s council (the parliament) of the Donetsk People’s Republic with a request to join the ranks of the Cossack battalion named after Bogdan Khmelnitsky that was being formed. They conveyed their offer in the verbal form through legislature chairman Vladimir Bidyovka.
https://tass.com/politics/1541251
Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 24 2022 11:50 utc | 282
Posted by: KR | Nov 23 2022 17:55 utc | 247
Posted by: farm ecologist | Nov 24 2022 0:22 utc | 273
Farm, you are welcome and I am happy to help with anything I know about.
KR, I read your post in its entirety and it was excellent . I have no problem with you linking your post here at all. I wouldn’t change a thing apart from me adding that Ukraine , Kiev and the Russians were all one and the same. You would consider me one of the “Russo-Ukrainian Ethnic brother “ believers.
I do that for many reasons , including but not limited to , the fact that the early Greek texts make no mention of a “Ukrainian” people, only of Rus or Russians. Now of course some Ukrainians still had Scythian and Greek blood , but I ignore that for the moment. Central “Ukraine “ was thus to all intents and purposes , Slavic and Parent Russian then . So as you say Christianity moved from Black Sea Ukraine up – river to Kiev and from thence further up the rivers to Moscow and other Russian lands. Please remember Greeks had codified Christianiity for the Czechs and Slovaks too in the 800 and 900s AD ,namely Greek missionaries, St Cyril and Methodius . Also to the Slavs (South) and Bulgars too.
It was later that the Vatican turned the Czechoslovaks into Catholics .
You are absolutely right. I also should have mentioned autocephaly, and yes many say that the Patriarch of Constantinople was blackmailed or threatened by the US and Turkey to create this Autocephalous Ukrainian Orthodox. No other reason exists apart from his well -known Anti – Communist leanings , yet Russia had not been Communist for over a generation! Many Intelligent ,sincere Greeks ( the bulk of the Greek Orthodox) , do not agree with their Spiritual Leader’s decision . It may have been allowed in “Black letter “ Canonical Law but its timing is suspicious. Think how the Irish ,Italian and Polish North Catholics would feel if the Pope in the Vatican suddenly allowed total autocephaly of all Polish ,Irish and Italian North Americans, seemingly at China’’s observably interventionist behest.
Posted by: Brother Ma | Nov 24 2022 12:33 utc | 283
Outraged | Nov 23 2022 23:58 utc | 271
I had read they were a regular unit. I think Ukraine can be likened to nazi Germany. SS were committed most war crimes but also many of the regular soldiers and units. Similar in Syria with the militias fighting alongside ISIS and al Qaeda.
It is regular military officers in artillery who order the targeting of residential areas in Donbas. It seems a simple thing to demonize and dehumanize a people which is the way many Ukrainians, be they Nazi’s or not, view Russians. No distinction between ethnic Russians of Ukraine and Russian federation. I don’t know how prevalent it is now but earlier both the nazi units and the regular military were stoked on captogan. Watching the suicide assaults on Russian position I assume it is still the case.
I watched a video of a POW being interviews and he talked about the stuff. It removed all fear for personal safety and also removed any traces of empathy for fellow humans.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 24 2022 14:12 utc | 284
Many typos in that last one but I guess the gist of will come through…
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 24 2022 14:22 utc | 285
SeanAU | Nov 24 2022 11:50 utc | 282
Not long back there was a prisoner swap, 100 for 100. Russia sent back 100 Ukraine women POW’s but a couple refused to go back.
Back in 2014, a female chopper pilot directed mortar fire onto a couple of Russian journalists. She was captured some time later and sentenced to however many years jail time for her part in the killings. While in jail in Russia she was elected to the Rada. A Ukraine and western media hero. After a year or two in jail Putin pardoned her to outraged howls from the pro Russia commentariat. She turns up in the Rada, bare foot, jeans, t-shirt, dyke haircut and called for peace talks and negotiations with the ethnic Russian Donbas. She instantly disappeared from the western media and from the Rada.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 24 2022 14:40 utc | 286
@ FVK 90
Just for the record it’s constipated bs for you to say that I am a Trojan Horse shoving myself into South Asian society. I came into Islam and found a whole bunch of people who are institutionally racist against me in my own country.
The Trojan Horse concept might possibly be a projection of their intentions in coming here. If you are Muslim you have to go to the mosque but after 25 years I am sick of being bullied and disrespected and I mostly stay away, when I’m in the UK. Not all countries have this attitude. I blame 250 years of British Raj, but now the Empire 2 Tories want a new Raj, and the Muslims want to on the bossing side. Enjoy.
One raging sheikh at the mimba told us we the British are the Pharaoh, and they the Muslims are the Children of Israel.
You said it mate, not I.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 24 2022 16:29 utc | 287
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 24 2022 14:40 utc | 286
Nadiya Savchenko
Posted by: MG | Nov 25 2022 2:47 utc | 288
@ Opport Knocks | Nov 23 2022 22:51 utc | 268
thanks!
Posted by: james | Nov 25 2022 15:24 utc | 289