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November 19, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-202

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on November 19, 2022 at 16:18 UTC | Permalink

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Canada announces another whopping $500 million dollars in aid to Ukraine, and vows to be in this for the long haul, I wonder how Canadians feel about this, and where their hard-earned cash is going, to one of the most corrupts countries in the world. That's over $1 billion dollars the Canadian government has given to Ukraine.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 20 2022 14:20 utc | 301

typo at #301
it should be:
*it is an easy job

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 20 2022 14:21 utc | 302


Unfortunately like elsewhere the brainwashed western populations support this mess:

"Majority of Canadians support increasing aid to Ukraine despite chance of larger deficit: Nanos poll"

One really understand how stupid westerners are during times like these.

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 20 2022 14:23 utc | 303

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 20 2022 13:03 utc | 291

Apparently Ukrainian forces are executing Russian prisoners of war.
Russia must appeal to the UN about this but I fear it will fall on deaf ears.

It has already fallen on deaf ears judging by the recent UN statements.

I suspect Russia will then apply it's own interpretation of "Justice".

Eventually the Russian Federation will conduct it's war crimes trials.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 20 2022 14:32 utc | 304


Seems every friendly NATO country has fiat currency backed by nothing but hubris, chutzpah, and pure bullshirt. To give away for empire. For hegemony. To uphold the mighty petro dollar.

Such massive giveaways also seem to be increasing stagflation in such places. Maybe unrelated!

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Nov 20 2022 14:36 utc | 305

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 20 2022 14:32 utc | 305

Eventually, Lvov will burn.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 20 2022 14:41 utc | 306

The war would be brought to end much quicker and a lot of lives would be saved as well if Zelensky put Neofeudalfuture and Zanon in control of the Ukrainian military. They would concentrate what is left of the Ukrainian forces/ Nazi militias / foreign mercenaries into one big force and than have them all attack Crimea in one final effort to overwhelm the defenses there just like D day. After 80% of the landing bots were sunk with rockets and drones the remaining forces would be mowed down as they ran up the beach. The war would be over, countless civilian lives saved and Zelensky would sign Minsk 3, the difference being that the Donbas would no longer be semi-autonomous regions of Ukraine, but part of Russia. Maybe they could have another vote in the Donbas regions with international observers this time just to make the peace plan legit. This would be a dream scenario to me, no more waking up everyday expecting to hear of some horrific false flag that brings NATO into the war..etc.

Posted by: James C | Nov 20 2022 14:57 utc | 307

You have to understand that Canada has a very large and well organized UKR diaspora. I know because my family came from UKR. As a young lad I had no idea that Russian language in UKR was a thing (obviously they speak Ukrainian), and among my family and the communities I have met the level of rabid anti-Russian sentiment is very high. The diaspora is proportionately heavily weighted towards western UKR aka Lvov etc. And now they have influence.

Most of Canada simply doesnt follow closely enough.. and those that do are not organized. Just the constant media line and everyone either being set for easy life (property owners from earlier) or have so many things on their plate that there us no mental juice left for issues like UKR after protesting e.g. ridiculous fiscal policy, union crackdowns, govt incompetence, and the widening chasm vetween the have and the have nots. Protest your one issue, then take a nice edible and tune out.

Posted by: dask | Nov 20 2022 14:58 utc | 308

@melaleuca 217 "Bankrolled by the international banking industrial + Zionists (Churchill was a sponsor of the British Palestine/ Israel project. Ze wants a “second” Israel in Ukraine.."

In 1895, Lord Randolf Churchill died. He was Winston Churchill's father. Lord Randolf's estate owed Nathan Rothschild 68,000 pounds, a tremendous amount at the time.

Rothschild wrote off the debt in exchange for future favours which you described in your post.

Posted by: canuck | Nov 20 2022 15:01 utc | 309

Notice that this (shelling ZNPP) happens after the visit of Rishi Sunak to Kiev....

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 20 2022 14:17 utc | 300

That’s an interesting observation. Assuming the link is causal, and under the assumption that the shelling is part of UA military strategy to regain control of ZNPP, or at least the generation capacity, it is interesting to contemplate why Sunak might have instructed Z to increase the tempo of attacks just now.

Regaining the ZNPP capacity might make a big difference to UA over the winter, perhaps enough to greatly reduce emergency migrant flows into the EU. If this is the motive for the increased attacks, it’s seems likely to be a request made on behalf of the EU. Let that sink in =)

As to why RF hasn’t been more successful in stopping the attacks, that’s even more of a mystery. Perhaps RF thinking is that if UA is determined to cause anything up to catastrophic release of radiation at ZNPP there’s probably nothing RF can do to stop them.

Their defense of ZNPP could escalate to impractical levels so they’ve decided to do enough to deflect these snuff-muppet attacks but if UA does cause a serious accident at ZNPP that’ll lead to a general escalation of the conflict.

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 20 2022 15:06 utc | 310

@113 Mark2
"What happened to the west 'free press'"
The remnants of the free press have what is euphemistically called "sensitivity to electricity"

Posted by: HelenB | Nov 20 2022 15:07 utc | 311

Shelling of Zaporozhye NPP continues right now, 15 hits reported, says Rosenergoatom
Any artillery strikes on the nuclear plant put nuclear safety at risk, Renat Karchaa said

Comical incompetence, as I said before Russia is getting the blame if the plant have a failure because of ukrainian shelling. This issue should have been taken care of months ago.
Russia need to be put down quite a few steps on World strongest armies if they cant even solve even this particular military issue!

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 20 2022 15:29 utc | 312

@ Cadence calls | Nov 20 2022 7:12 utc | 246

thanks cadence calls.. i liked you a lot before, but even more now.. cheers james

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2022 15:46 utc | 313

The Free the whole of Belgium and the Netherlands practically all of the press is owned by two people. And they decide. There simply are no independent papers of any importance left. You may find some blogs that go against the grain - but they only reach a very small part of the population. We should not be under any illusion: a change in popular opinion will only come when hunger strikes. But even then, the popular anger will be manipulated in a certain direction. The great dystopian novels of the 20th century really are being used as a manual. Let's hope someone writes the sequel to counter that, if, that is, there will be people left that can read (and that may be why literacy is going down in the West).
I'm happy Medvedev referenced to Bulgakov today.

Posted by: Anthony | Nov 20 2022 15:59 utc | 314


Big on claims and opinions - what actual military experience and more importantly combat experience do you have?

If none - as I expect - then you can Заткнись...

Posted by: Richard Head | Nov 20 2022 16:29 utc | 315


Zanon more and more sounds like a robot: his postings have become very stereotypic. So either it's a machine that learned a silly routine or else he is a poor man in a treadmill. In either case not useful responding to.

Posted by: Anthony | Nov 20 2022 17:06 utc | 316

There is a Good Cop/Bad Cop thing going on with that Zanon character. Best to just skip his posts. If B would do us a favour and put the name of the poster ahead of the post, we could skip a lot of gobbledegook without having to scroll to the end of it

Posted by: DaVinci | Nov 20 2022 18:18 utc | 317

@ Anthony | Nov 20 2022 12:16 utc | 284

Oh, indeed. He came to mind first re an example of one who thought he gotten away. French authorities are uncertain if it was or wasn't in fact him, indeterminate, yet lacking any evidence of his existence subsequent, am content with, was on the balance of probabilities. There is also the sensitive issue of French not wishing to confirm re WTF ? why was he living free in France unmolested by the State ?

@ unimperator | Nov 20 2022 12:47 utc | 286

Intriguing, Thank you.

@ Republicofscotland | Nov 20 2022 13:03 utc | 290

Has been going on since early days of the conflict, falls on deaf ears. Also that brutal extended torture preceds execution often in front of other POWs to traumatize and intimidate. Evil incarnate.

Republicofscotland | Nov 20 2022 14:15 utc | 298

@ jared | Nov 20 2022 14:20 utc | 301

I get the impression that you are talking out your hat.

No, he most certainly is Not. Please do consider undertaking some basic research before casting such aspersions.

@ unimperator | Nov 20 2022 14:41 utc | 307

RF will hunt the perpetrators down to the ends of the earth once this is all over.

@ dask | Nov 20 2022 14:58 utc | 309

You mean OUN, not UKR, yes ?

@ Anthony | Nov 20 2022 17:06 utc | 317

Concur, likely a bot. We are so privileged :(

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 18:50 utc | 318

On RT right now:
about an interview with American Neo-Nazi criminal who went to fight in Ukraine, a certain Kent Mc Lellan (that I wouldn't invite for dinner even if he paid me a million dollars). He may be honest in his "confessions" however. But it shows what a moral abyss Ukraine has become and how hypocritical the West is in denying the atrocities. Well, Macron got slapped again today, a very small thing but still...

Posted by: Anthony | Nov 20 2022 19:24 utc | 319

Philip H Gattey | Nov 20 2022 4:59 utc | 219

"" It's not false because of the book of Daniel. ""

Reversing Jesus Christ to Anti-Christ as the fulfillment of Daniel's 70th Week is indeed a blasphemy. ... It proves the falsehood of the Rapture Dispensationalism.

"" Its false because the Apocalypse, the End Times , has already happened. ""

Well ... Fulfilling Daniel's 70th Week back at the Cross (as opposed to a 'future event') does that explicitly. ... Hello? ... I don't understand your disagreement.

Posted by: Mummer | Nov 20 2022 19:27 utc | 320

Mummer | Nov 20 2022 19:27 utc | 321

The Jesus story was nothing more than a Roman psy-op to quell anti-imperial sentiment. NT exegesis is the equivalent of Harry Potter fan fiction, pretty poetry with no basis in history. Do more productive things with your life.

Posted by: Hmpf  | Nov 20 2022 19:50 utc | 321

Hmpf | Nov 20 2022 19:50 utc | 322

Your pop-culture opinion holds no credibility.

Posted by: Mummer | Nov 20 2022 20:01 utc | 322

anon2020 | Nov 20 2022 15:06 utc | 311

Military support for Ukraine is winding down which I suspect is the reason for sending a couple of missiles into Poland and resumption of shelling of ZNPP. Still plenty of promises but little arriving.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 20 2022 20:11 utc | 323

Mummer | Nov 20 2022 20:01 utc | 323

Luke 24:36-49, New Revised Internet Version

36: While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

37: They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost.

38: He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds?

39: Goeth to YouTube at and seeth with your own eyes at it is I, and don't forget to smash the like button so thou mayest subscribe to the channel."

Posted by: Hmpf | Nov 20 2022 20:30 utc | 324

Hmpf | Nov 20 2022 20:30 utc | 325

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." --- St. John's Gospel XIV : vi

This leads us to an axiomatic chiasmus:

If you believe the Truth, you believe in Jesus. ... If you believe in Jesus, you believe in the Truth.

Posted by: Mummer | Nov 20 2022 21:06 utc | 325

I don't mean to be casting aspersions, but I get the impression that you are talking out your hat.

For example, electronics quickly goes obsolete but is generally replaced by rough equivalents which are better and cheaper. The military generally specs custom designs for which they pay premium. This situation is the norm. This process does take time.

Above posted by: jared | Nov 20 2022 14:20 utc | 301

Oh dear: I don't mean to be casting aspersions either, but could you provide credentials and/or specific references that indicate that you're not just talking out of your own hat?

I was going to explain that my own experience writing and designing test programs for Mil Spec solid-state components in a small integrated circuit company dates back to the 1970s (after which I began writing and designing system software for computers), but if the post you responded to is correct in stating that the F22 design is similarly ancient then I guess I can lend a hand.

Performing custom circuit designs was normally out of our league, but our main work for the military was in providing standard components that would pass more rigorous than normal testing (I suspect that the military often used designs that used better-than-standard components for cost purposes and that the larger manufacturers did not want to be bothered with special-case fabrication and/or test procedures).

While such small-to-medium scale integrated circuits may still be available in other configurations and/or fabrications, they may not be plug-compatible with the old versions let alone available in comparable Mil Spec versions, and your gross generalization about ROUGH equivalents being better and cheaper is balderdash when ROUGH equivalence just isn't good enough (similar considerations apply to other custom-manufactured non-electronic parts).

Posted by: StirThePot | Nov 20 2022 21:11 utc | 326

@ Peter AU1 | Nov 20 2022 20:11 utc | 324

10% for the Big, 10% for you, & you & you all too ... 10%(or less) left over for the faux pretense of the actual physical deliverables in theater.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 21:25 utc | 327

"The truth. It is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution." — Albus Dumbledore

Exotic Greco-Persian mystery school concepts used after the rebellion to facilitate the Roman Empire’s desire to erase distinctions between Greek and Jew in a unitary Mediterranean state that bear no relationship to actual conditions or beliefs in revolutionary Judea of the first century A.D. There is a market for Star Trek novels as well, but they're seldom used at university even if considered canon...

Posted by: Hmpf | Nov 20 2022 21:36 utc | 328

Outraged | Nov 20 2022 21:25 utc | 328

From what I can make out, the bulk of US weapons promises to Ukraine now consist of putting in production orders to the MIC rather than actual delivery. From the Ukraine channel resident, Sunak's recent visit to to see the green t-shirt consisted of Sunak telling him to negotiate because due to UK's financial position they can no longer help. This could be right but I suspect MI6 are paying their own game and telling Zed not to negotiate. London old boys/gentleman club may not be in agreement with their Indian PM.

Sending a couple of missiles into Poland, and now the renewed and intensive shelling of ZNPP makes me think Resident is right about Sunak telling Zelensky to negotiate.

On another subject, Russia is ramping up small drones in a big way. With this shoot and scoot warfare, cheap suicide drones that can operate in an EW environment are proving particularly effective at knocking out Ukraine armour and artillery. Russia has some new production facilities that are coming on line now plus tech exchange with Iran. I suspect Iran is a world leader in this technology.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 20 2022 21:48 utc | 329

Hmpf | Nov 20 2022 21:36 utc | 329

... However ... Your narrative is very much alive at the universities. ... Along with any other other pop-culture fads that come and go. ... Yawn.

Posted by: Mummer | Nov 20 2022 22:22 utc | 330


Indeed, even more than the Turkish drones, the Iranian ones (or their Russian counterparts: some fruitful cooperation there!) have changed the face of warfare again. Quite cheap mass-produced weapons are making the difference.This has global implications, e.g. Israel will be powerless against a barrage of a thousand drones coming from several directions, even if Iron Dome shoots a part of them at immense cost. The victor will be the one who produces the most drones in the shortest time so, the countries with industries and lots of workers, like China and Iran, maybe Russia too. We have made Star Wars a bit more earthlty, as it were. I wonder where this will end.

Posted by: Anthony | Nov 20 2022 22:29 utc | 331

...putting in production orders to the MIC rather than actual delivery.

I suspect Iran is a world leader in this technology.

@ Peter AU1 | Nov 20 2022 21:48 utc | 330

Fully concur.

PaveywayIV called it precisely a few days ago. No Strategic or OpPlan, no intention to enter as a Belligerant. Zero prep in EU for conflict. No cargo ships on round trips re millions of tons of materiel for months in advance. Squat. Oher than MSM_Lies_R_US propaganda. Merely ponzi/rort looting all the way.

Hence why Pentagon/DIA are literally shitting bricks with numerous recent public remarks re supposed 'leadership' from the Executive.

'Tis' imminent Empire demise. (Timescale indeterminate)

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 22:36 utc | 332

@ Anthony | Nov 20 2022 22:29 utc | 332

Not only a wide range of models of capable Drones, a smorgasbord of, including stealth, but state of the art short & medium+ range conventional warhead Ballistic missiles with pinpoint accuracy(See: Iran missile strikes on US Iraqi bases 2020, response to IRGC Gen Solomeini(") assassination, zero US response, incidents suppressed)

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 22:43 utc | 333

@Outraged 334

Yes, that Pandora's box is wide open now. And look at North Korea's prowess...(they must have had a little help from neighbours). Well, the USA asked for it, if it gives them and the whole of NATO a headache, they only have themselves to thank for that!

Posted by: Anthony | Nov 20 2022 22:50 utc | 334

John Helmer's latest...

The Stavka Memorandum: Russia Means Military Power Plus Diselectrification of the Ukraine

"...A source in Kiev claims that from the ground in Maidan Square the lights appear to be burning in the elite apartments, including the one listed on Sofivska Street owned by Canada's deputy prime minister Chrystia Freeland..."

Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 21 2022 8:34 utc | 335

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