Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 19, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-202

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on November 19, 2022 at 16:18 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Briefly read the comments: I'm laughing at the pathetic trolling/low IQ posts of Zanon and neofeudalfuture. I surmise they must be refugees in the west as I don't think there is much of a power distribution system or internet left in the Ukraine.

Posted by: Kaiama | Nov 19 2022 22:17 utc | 101

Outraged @85--

The key being the massive effort put into the suppression of Jesus's message prompting the Temple encounter: The return of Mosaic Law and its God ordained Jubilee Year. Note how the self-described Christian Church has never attempted to promote Jesus's message and changed the verbiage via language use as Hudson has shown. Again, the Big Picture is the ONLY Picture that so many are working so hard to obfuscate and rebury--the 4,000+ year-old Class War between Creditors and Debtors and the need to remove finance from private hands once and for all. Ukraine is merely a small sideshow in comparison.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 19 2022 22:22 utc | 102

rjb1.5 | Nov 19 2022 22:10 utc | 101

Greene is out of step with the American people and has threatened to cut off funding to the heroic Ukrainian resistance against Putin’s illegal war. As Russian troops succumb to General Winter it will be interesting to see how Germans and Czechs rally to their leaders to support the noble Ukrainian fight. Slava Ukrainia!

Posted by: Dani | Nov 19 2022 22:25 utc | 103

Sunak pledges yet another £50m to Ukraine as Brits choose between eating or heating. We are all supposed to sacrifice our tax money to support a corrupt, extreme Ukrainian government, because that's what America wants us to do.

Posted by: D J G | Nov 19 2022 22:29 utc | 104

It is a bit strange to see this focus on the electricity grid, when before the ukrainian attacked the Donbas usually 40-60% of ukrainian fuel was purchased (at below market prices) from the Russian Federation, and without oil, gas, coal it is not so easy to generate electricity or to power transports.

What has changed many things is that a large part of the population of Ukraine has emigrated already, thus substantially reducing the consumption of energy in Ukraine.

On that line the UK BBC reports that a large ukrainian electricity company is urging ukrainians to leave the country, and that repairing the electrical grid will be very difficult:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63687037
«The head of Ukraine's biggest private energy firm says people should consider leaving the country to reduce demand on the country's power network. "If they can find an alternative place to stay for another three or four months, it will be very helpful to the system," DTEK chief executive Maxim Timchenko told the BBC. [...] Fixing the damaged infrastructure is also becoming more difficult. "Unfortunately we have run out of equipment and spare parts... That's why we appeal to our partners, government officials, companies and equipment producers to help us with the immediate supply of available equipment," Mr Timchenko said.»

Nothing new there: even without wars large percentages of the populations of the failed super-neoliberal economies of eastern Europe (in particular the baltics) have emigrated to less failed economies (ironically in retrospect many of them emigrated to Germany).

Posted by: Blissex | Nov 19 2022 22:36 utc | 105

D J G @ 105

Sunak pledges yet another £50m to Ukraine as Brits choose between eating or heating. We are all supposed to sacrifice our tax money to support a corrupt, extreme Ukrainian government, because that's what America wants us to do.

Million not billion, £50m is like a day's spending in the Ukraine hole and like a few hours spending in the UK hole. It's such a trivial sum as why even bother, practically embarrassing. It's done, EU is broke. Maybe the Russians and BRICS+ have won the hybrid war.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 19 2022 22:41 utc | 106

severe temperature drops in Ukraine and Poland. Kherson apparently being evancauted by Ukies.

https://zoom.earth/maps/temperature/

Frozen stiff in Kiev and Kharkov...It's rather warm in Crimea and Rostov. Azov Sea area appears to have a milder microclimate.

Posted by: Wokechoke | Nov 19 2022 22:42 utc | 107

Posted by: D J G | Nov 19 2022 22:29 utc | 105

Ain't seen nothing yet... lets keep this 15 % headline inflation (in reality 30 - 40 % real inflation) going along with real estate and other asset stagflation going on for 2, 3, 4 years. By that time we will already have the sequel movie for the original "Escape from New York", now called "Escape from ultra-liberal, degenerate, bankrupt, totalitarian, oppressive hell of European Union".

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 19 2022 22:45 utc | 108

"Greene is out of step with the American people..."

She's not out of step on this issue,with the broad mass of rightwing opinion in the US. She's out of step with shitlibs and Neoconservatives though.

"...and has threatened to cut off funding to the heroic Ukrainian resistance against Putin’s illegal war.''"

She's asking for an audit!

"As Russian troops succumb to General Winter..."

You must be trolling here. It's balmy in Sevastopol, Mariupol and Rostov while it is already subzero in Kiev Kharkov Dnipro Zhitomir Vinnitsia Sumy Poltava... and the power keeps going out.

"it will be interesting to see how Germans and Czechs rally to their leaders to support the noble Ukrainian fight. Slava Ukrainia!"

If anything Czechs and Germans want this to go away and to get cheap methane again.

Posted by: Wokechoke | Nov 19 2022 22:51 utc | 109

Anthony @ 98

I'm counting three new trolls and their lack of inspiration and mental agility must indeed be worrying for their paymasters.

"Lack of inspiration and mental agility" - maybe it's an AI? Evil empire loves tech solutions and the grift it enables. Not sure if MoA should feel honored or neglected.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 19 2022 22:51 utc | 110

What happened to the west 'free press'
Unbiased reporting,
Independent from govenment interference.
Reporting from both sides of a conflict, uncensored, without omitting crimes and atrocities from either side......
Basicaly what happend to the truth?
That right there is why the western public are so brain dead.

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 19 2022 22:53 utc | 111

the 4,000+ year-old Class War between Creditors and Debtors and the need to remove finance from private hands once and for all. Ukraine is merely a small sideshow in comparison.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 19 2022 22:22 utc | 103

---

Like marx, you are only partly correct in identifying class as the underlying conflict and eternal struggle

In reality, at its most basic form life is divided by predator and prey, with various labels applied to each

So we have at least two issues:

- the hope of eliminating systems intentionally crafted to confer predatory advantages must address evolutionary realities

- any one, organization or movement promising to reform and/or eliminate such systems must be treated with caution

While the promise of altruistic behavior may be appealing, the message is really just another marketing pitch designed to eliminate competition

In other words, as all governments are merely organized criminal enterprises that claim legitimacy under law, the idea of a multipolar world conferring kumbaya upon all who cast adoring glances is naive

For many of us, we're not necessarily opposed to US dominance. Rather, we're opposed to the current regime as representatives of the American people

The coming multipolar world brought about by Russias victory will not usher in global peace and prosperity. This new empire will have to be resisted as well

But if the thoroughly diseased and corrupt USA socio political system fails as a result, a reformed constitutionally constructed republic might provide the necessary balance

Posted by: B9k9 | Nov 19 2022 22:58 utc | 112

While a number of Ukrainian supporters have posted fantasies about seizing Crimea and Russia crumbling, they are just fantasies.

Right now Ukrainian officials are suggesting that Ukrainians spend the winter somewhere else.

Russia's missiles continue to knock out the gas and electrical system, leaving large areas of Ukraine dark and without water, which in most places are pumped by electricity. The military needs fuel and electricity and water, too.

By Christmas there will either be heartwarming stories about Western Europeans, themselves without fuel, welcoming Nazis into their own frigid homes, or killing homeless Ukrainians in the streets.

By next year there might not be a functioning Ukraine. There might not even be a functioning NATO.

Posted by: Bob In Portland | Nov 19 2022 22:59 utc | 113

If you're running Russia and want to win this war, you would drop troops and tanks down from Belarus to Moldova, and in the process cut off the supply lines coming out of Lvov. You would also assign some troops to cut off the highways running from Odessa to Kiev.

When Ukraine can't resupply their troops in Kherson or the Donbas, the game will be over, and the people of Odessa will realize that their rule by the Banderite fascists may soon be over, thus they may rise up and help.

Posted by: OdessaConnected | Nov 19 2022 23:01 utc | 114

Below is a quote from a Reuters piece titled

New UK PM Sunak visits Kyiv, pledges support

The quote


KYIV, Nov 19 (Reuters) - Britain's new Prime Minister Rishi Sunak made his first visit to Kyiv on Saturday, pledging to continue the firm support for Ukraine that was a focus of his predecessors, and providing a new air defence package to help shoot down Russian drones.

"Britain knows what it means to fight for freedom," Sunak said on Twitter. "We are with you all the way."

Sunak said in a statement that Britain would provide a new 50 million pound ($60 million) package that includes anti-aircraft guns and technology such as radar to counter drone attacks. Britain also said it would increase the training it provides to Ukraine's armed forces.

2 minute readNovember 19, 202210:08 AM PSTLast Updated 5 hours ago
New UK PM Sunak visits Kyiv, pledges support
Reuters

KYIV, Nov 19 (Reuters) - Britain's new Prime Minister Rishi Sunak made his first visit to Kyiv on Saturday, pledging to continue the firm support for Ukraine that was a focus of his predecessors, and providing a new air defence package to help shoot down Russian drones.

"Britain knows what it means to fight for freedom," Sunak said on Twitter. "We are with you all the way."

Sunak said in a statement that Britain would provide a new 50 million pound ($60 million) package that includes anti-aircraft guns and technology such as radar to counter drone attacks. Britain also said it would increase the training it provides to Ukraine's armed forces.

"While Ukraine's armed forces succeed in pushing back Russian forces on the ground, civilians are being brutally bombarded from the air," Sunak said in his statement.

"We are today providing new air defence, including anti-aircraft guns, radar and anti-drone equipment, and stepping up humanitarian support for the cold, hard winter ahead."

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 19 2022 23:08 utc | 115

@117, lol.

Quoting Zannon?

Posted by: Forest | Nov 19 2022 23:14 utc | 116

Wonderful to see how a British PM speaking plumb can bolster Ukraine's fading hopes.
Sunak is a finance technician whose Bounce back bubble has saddled the country with debt, and whose solution to inflation is to pass the cost onto employers with increased minimum wage. In other words he knows how to fix his own party's mistakes but as a Tory he knows absolutely zero how to run a country.

Britain is a crypto country about to go bust. Why does anybody think a Hindu billionaire cares about British workers or Ukranian lives? What is the difference between a monkey god and Nazi runes?
The accent is there, but the heart has zero comprehension of British values.

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 19 2022 23:15 utc | 117

Re Estonians, see:

The Neutral Nations Supervisory Commission(NNSC) which was established by the Korean Armistice Agreement signed 27 July 1953, declaring an armistice in the Korean War. Poland & Czechoslovakia exited post USSR collapse as no longer accepted neutral by DPRK.

Leaving Sweden (J Assange) & Switzerland, Switzerland has shown it's hand many times as a fake neutral, again only recently re RF Sanctions. Sweden, the secret deep state controlled, Swedish State, a secret covert member of NATO since at least '56.(See: Search 'Sweden secret NATO membership')

@ bevin | Nov 19 2022 21:43 utc | 91

Truth.

@ Buford T Justice | Nov 19 2022 21:56 utc | 97

Indeed. Can add Iran, Venezuela, UAE, much of Latin America, numerous African nations eager to escape post-colonial smothering oppression.

@rjb1.5 | Nov 19 2022 22:05 utc | 99

LOL

@ steven t johnson | Nov 19 2022 21:51 utc | 94

As to the rest, unlike you I do not see God in the bathroom mirror every morning and do not know what true Christianity is

Respectfully, please do not strawman me stj.

Was brought up in rigid Irish Catholic faith. From the moment of my majority rejected Orthodox religion/s, Christian Brothers, especially the Jesuits. Despise any form of orthodox religion. However, have no stake re any other persons right to their own belief system, along as they do not proselytize or use it as a means to destroy/attack others.

The post was brief riff re a potted history of those in the West who have ruled and exploited us & especially wider humanity for power & PROFIT for many millennia, and no, I'm not referring to tiny-hats.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 19 2022 23:16 utc | 118

OdessaConnected @ 116

I running Russia. I want win. Thank you for strategy. Never occurred to me cut supply. Highway thing good idea too.

Sincerely,

Vlad

P.S. Odessa people no like Russia so no count on uprising. Everything else gold. Want job?

Posted by: Vlad | Nov 19 2022 23:18 utc | 119

B9k9 @114--

Thanks for illustrating the juvenile mindset so needing to be purged from humanity. Far more mature ways of existing are known and are practiced, both now and in the past. You fail to understand that the vast majority of humanity wants the Western mindset you articulate to be vanquished so development and modernization can continue and commence which the Age of Plunder and its primitive ideology have prevented.

The Eurasian/Humanitarian Way will prevail once the West is finally defeated. That Ukraine is where this battle has finally commenced along with the Outlaw US Empire's choice for Nazis to lead the way is actually fortuitous as it exposes the many lies related to post-WW2 history and the Anti-Human nature of Capitalism.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 19 2022 23:24 utc | 120

@122;

Childish, manichean, and idiotic rhetoric.

Sociopaths are “beasts of no nation” - they are found everywhere and are independent of their essential characteristics.

The Eurasian space is currently in a better place sociologically; this could change.

Marxist analysis is necessary but not sufficient. Anti-Westernism is Marx with a lobotomy.

Posted by: Moaobserver | Nov 19 2022 23:27 utc | 121

Posted by: GreyRaven | Nov 19 2022 19:17 utc | 50

Agreed. Start scrolling down and the first thing one sees is someone suggesting Ukraine could retake Crimea by amphibious landing.

Worse, following that nonsense there are fifty people arguing the lunatic point.

This is why I try not to read any comment without a link. Unfortunately I'm not always successful.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 19 2022 23:31 utc | 122

Wokechoke @108:
"Frozen stiff in Kiev and Kharkov...."
The ground will freeze solid in a couple of weeks so that Russian tank armies can start to roll. Then the delusions and the "perceptions" presented by Western media will melt away like a spring frost.

Posted by: Donnie | Nov 19 2022 23:36 utc | 123

Sunak undertakes his pilgrimage.
Rishi rushes to Kiev

“”Rishi Sunak @RishiSunak
United Kingdom government official
Britain knows what it means to fight for freedom.
We are with you all the way @ZelenskyyUa
Британія знає, що означає боротися за свободу.
Ми з вами до кінця @ZelenskyyUa””
https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1593961630303670272

In the replies:
Russia> east
Poland > west
Missile🤡
https://twitter.com/HowardSteen4/status/1593519705435869187

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 19 2022 23:37 utc | 124

"It started with the Scofield Reference Notes (1909) and worked its way through the 20th Century through heretical pop-theology such as Tim LaHaye's 'Left Behind' series (circa 1990s). ... 10s of millions of Americans have been poisoned and scammed by this theology"

Posted by: Mummer | Nov 19 2022 21:03 utc | 84

Nailed it! After Herzl's work in establishing Zionism (which BTW has its roots in the Talmud, rather than Torah) the deception of America began in earnest via Scofield, and the infiltration/control of Western churches via false doctrine. IMHO Rapture eschatological theology (AKA Pre-Millennialism) is a false doctrine meant to dupe nominal christians - and that it has. The majority of western christians are so lukewarm they are not only ineffectual against this growing evil, they are actually, albeit inadvertently, helping it along

To those like b9k9 & seveneleven, etc - enjoy your posts, but I would encourage you to replace the word Jews with Zionists. The former is only a shield for the latter (by design) to obfuscate their deeds. Using the former is like a dog whistle that will get you gang-tackled in a hurry, whereas the latter is more apropos IMHO. Note there are MANY non-jew Zionists, and MANY Jews who are NOT Zionists (like True Torah Jews)

Posted by: ianMoone | Nov 19 2022 23:50 utc | 125

Richard Steven Hack | Nov 19 2022 23:31 utc | 124
Worse, following that nonsense there are fifty people arguing the lunatic point.
Second that RSH.
@bar. Really? You all just had to had to had to post pixels to the troll.
And then complain the comments here are shite.
FFS.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 19 2022 23:53 utc | 126

Again, the Big Picture is the ONLY Picture that so many are working so hard to obfuscate and rebury--the 4,000+ year-old Class War between Creditors and Debtors and the need to remove finance from private hands once and for all. Ukraine is merely a small sideshow in comparison.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 19 2022 22:22 utc | 103

The question to ask is why the same Class team has won the battle for the last 4000 years? Perhaps, as evidenced in many modern cases, because the winners were members of one class before changing fortunes (pun intended) caused them to defect to the other.

Modern finance is a hybrid public/private enterprise. The biggest clients of the biggest asset managers (Blackrock, Vanguard, State Street) are the pension funds, the biggest of which belong to the public sector.

Not to suggest the system does not need improvement, but 100% public finance would be a disaster. Have you ever approached a government funding body for a combination grant/loan to get a worthwhile community project off the ground?

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Nov 19 2022 23:55 utc | 127

Posted by: jared | Nov 19 2022 17:03 utc |

Re a huge financial advantage and can just pay for more. That financial advantage will get contracts signed but it won’t actually produce anything. This is a western fantasy that if you just throw money at something solutions appear. It’s the US having chop issues for javelin and stinger production, and the US simply doesn’t have the factories to mass produce weapons and ammunition anymore. It can change that with lots of money, but it’s not an overnight thing.

Posted by: Lex | Nov 20 2022 0:04 utc | 128

Not to suggest the system does not need improvement, but 100% public finance would be a disaster. Have you ever approached a government funding body for a combination grant/loan to get a worthwhile community project off the ground?

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Nov 19 2022 23:55 utc | 129

Tell that to Australians needing health care from a 'public" / private hospital system run from the Caymans not even paying tax here.

https://michaelwest.com.au/foreign-tax-crooks-nab-hospitals-nursing-homes-electricity-now-aim-to-gut-origin-energy-too/

You see the problem with capitalism / private finance ownership of public utilities is there is no morality and no check and balance. The market will take care of "it" for sure, as long as "it' is the 1% class.

Posted by: K | Nov 20 2022 0:07 utc | 129

@ karlof1 | Nov 19 2022 22:22 utc | 103
@ karlof1 | Nov 19 2022 23:24 utc | 122

You won't get any arguments from me old friend. Was just venting a little really, as you correctly identify few seem to be able to view or asses or recall much other than the moment or immediate recent past in context nor very long term societal/cultural organizational patterns, as opposed to single monoliths or singular heads of State. Too busy focusing on individual trees as opposed to the various forests.

Dog damned right the suppression of Jesus's message.

What ever happened to the Ten Commandants ? Love one another as I have loved you ? The Japanese Daimyo's thence the Shogun caught on toot sweet in mid 1600's(?) when a shipwrecked navigator gave away carelessly the true reason for opening European trade with Japan & hopefully China, including recent past practices. Crucified every Spanish priest & monk they could find, while the Portuguese went ultra-low profile & to this day have prevented subversion by religious means by the West.

My view is that true diagnosable psychopaths have infected & generationally dominated western cultural elites through emplaced progeny, rinse & repeat. True elite psychopaths are alike, what I call, Vampyres, they self-attract & coagulate, group & support one another, can instantly spot their own kind in a large crowd. In the West 'tis this minuscule group and their suckup submissive obsequies minions who squabble amongst themselves(factions) whilst looking down on the entirety of the human race as mere work units & livestock. Have encountered many at highest levels.

The French did a bit of Darwinism on 'em during the French revolution re madame Guillotine, yet that was merely a temporary reprieve and only a single faction.

Philosophizing over. Socrates would not approve of such unstructured ranting on a critical topic.

Reckon we'd have one rip-roaring debate til the wee small hours in person ... alas

In reminiscence, do you recall our very first discussion re the falsity of military power & dominance through a flawed religious belief in advanced technology alone ? 100's of billion$ on covert self-powered ground sensors dropped in the Vietnamese Laos/Cambodian Jungles ? So Viets collect a bunch, plant'em in an empty patch of jungle & hang buckets of urine & excrement from the trees, and setup primitive Dune like thumpers to simulate troops passing in large force. Subsequently collect huge nunbers of dud irons bombs to extract the RDX after multiple arclight runs. Thank you USA !

Wanderwaffe ... just like suicidal resource/industrial misdirection re WWII Nazis ... just like Empire in 2022 ... LOL. Probably get grief for this post too :)

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 0:14 utc | 130

Sunak undertakes his pilgrimage.
Rishi rushes to Kiev

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 19 2022 23:37 utc | 126

I am a but puzzled how did he manage to do it under current circumstances.
It is quite a trip from Polish border to Kiev. And back.
With all the power knocked off and missiles and kamikaze drones flying to Kiev it must be quite a feat to organize safety for him and his entourage. How did he travel, by train, by bus, by limo? He was not afraid it could be killed by a mine, drone, missile, artillery shell? Brave guy for sure.

Posted by: hopehely | Nov 20 2022 0:18 utc | 131

@Vlad the Troll 121

Vlad smart Keeeeeev banderite boy with no gun, too bad. People of Odessa no like Ukraine speakie nazis, so you find out when ground freeze.

Posted by: OdessaConnected | Nov 20 2022 0:22 utc | 132

“Everyone is tired of the Kiev regime. Especially of the neurotic Zelensky, who is constantly whipping up tensions, whining, sniveling and extorting more and more money and weapons handouts. [He] acts like a hysterical child with developmental problems,” Medvedev stated."

Now we are getting somewhere. Ze's prospects soon will be terminal.

Life isn't rational, it's anthropomorphic. Life includes low-lifes like Ze much to our sorrow.

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Nov 20 2022 0:27 utc | 133

OdessaConnected | Nov 20 2022 0:22 utc | 135

You clearly don't get it. He was obviously trolling you, not the Russians. Maybe you should post somewhere that's more appropriate to your developmental level...

https://www.ponylandpress.com/taxi.shtml

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 20 2022 0:35 utc | 134

ianMoone | Nov 19 2022 23:50 utc | 127

"" Rapture eschatological theology (AKA Pre-Millennialism) is a false doctrine meant to dupe nominal christians ""

Good point. ... However, regardless of the 'eschatological' problems of Rapture Dispensationalism, the bigger (and blasphemic) heresies within that are: a) Christologic (the Personhood of Christ) and b) Soteriological (the Atonement) issues. ... Examples:

a) The Dispensational Blasphemy of re-interpreting Jesus Christ to a 'Future (to us) Anti-Christ' in the 70th Week of Daniel.

For 2000 years the church always interpreted the 70th Week of Daniel as being fulfilled by Jesus Christ. The passage is given in Daniel 9: 27a, "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease ..." ... Jesus did this at the Last Supper confirming the New Testament, and through His death on the Cross.

However, in 1830, two men in Britain and Ireland (John Nelson Darby & Edward Irving) constructed the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine, which separates the 70th Week from the previous 69 Weeks and shoves it arbitrarily into the future. ... In doing this they re-interpreted the 'he who confirms the covenant and causes the sacrifices to cease' as being a 'Future Anti-Christ'.

The doctrinal error here can never be understated. ... Rapture Dispensationalism actually reverses the Personhood of Jesus to the Devil! ... This is more than a scam. It is utter Blasphemy.

b) The Dispensational Blasphemy of denying the Atonement of Christ at the Cross by excluding it from the 70 Weeks of Daniel.

The Divine Purposes of the 70 Weeks is given to us in the verse Daniel 9: 24, ... "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." ... Notice that this INCLUDES the the Atonement at the Cross (ie. to make reconciliation for iniquity).

However, in the Darby / Irving / Scofield scheme, a parenthetical 'gap' between the 69th and 70th Week is arbitrarily inserted. This 'gap starts with the Cross of Christ after the 69th Week, and supposedly we are still in that 'parenthesis' today 2000 years later, with the 70th Week still 'future' (to us).

This is a subtle but real DENIAL of the Atonement of Christ. ... If the Cross of Christ is not part of the 70 Weeks of Daniel (and merely lies in a 'parenthesis period'), then Christ never died for our sins.

Again, the doctrinal error here can never be understated. ... Rapture Dispensationalism denies in substance and fact the Atoning Works of our Blessed Saviour by cleverly pole-vaulting over Calvary. ... Again, this is more than a scam. It is utter Blasphemy.

So, to sum it up. ... Rapture Dispensational's biggest heresies are not merely its reckless eschatology. ... It's real heresies are the blasphemic reversal of Christ to the Devil in the 70th Week, and its denial of Salvation within that 70th Week are errors which can only lead to the destruction of the soul.

Jesus gave this stark warning St' Matthew's Gospel Chapter 7, ...

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

What will the Rapture Dispensationalist say when he is confronted with his blasphemic heresies before the very Throne of God? ... To all of the Scofield disciples, please repent of your dispensational sin now! Your eternity is in jeopardy.

Posted by: Mummer | Nov 20 2022 0:38 utc | 135

OdessaConnected | Nov 20 2022 0:22 utc | 135

You obviously don't get it, he was trolling you not the Russians. You should probably stick to posting on a site that more in line with your developmental level, like this one

Posted by: Moaobserver | Nov 20 2022 0:41 utc | 136

Thanks for illustrating the juvenile mindset so needing to be purged from humanity.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 19 2022 23:24 utc | 12

---

Ah, so you are an agent; good to know.

Lesson for observers: when someone dismisses human nature as a mere obstacle to be eliminated to reach a state of grace, you know that he is either:

- foolishly naive; a simple dreamer, or
- a highly sophisticated propagandist

Any cursory review of Karl's missives extolling the wonderful Eden to emerge would rationally conclude the latter

Posted by: B9k9 | Nov 20 2022 0:44 utc | 137

OdessaConnected | Nov 19 2022 23:01 utc | 116

Drop ? How ?

IF RF chooses to go full Zhukov, or maybe when, IF, then 'one' possibility would be the following scribbling, straight from the back of a beer coaster ...

Gotta go nth, seal the Polish/Bulgarian(?) border, deploy significant flank protection forces re any maneuver capable AFU units. Then drive S & siege Odessa from a N-S axis. Detach a reinforced Brigade to support Transnistria, subsequent referendum re RF. Further reinforcement subsequent. Further deploy multiple minor mobile detachments as progressed for flank protection N, lesser degree to w, blocking detachments re on main routes beyond arty tube indirect fire range re large towns/cities. Await imminent surrender. Under current conditions prior to onset of winter ground 'freeze', limited to necessity of using paved & sealed roads/raillines. High risk due to likelihood of pre-positioned ambushes along known approaches & choke points, severing of MSRs, isolation & destruction of detachments from main body.

Realistically: As above, but prepare for onset of winter ground 'freeze', advance on multiple broad frontages off & on roads/raillines offering flanking and mutual support across central & Northern Ukraine on an E-W axis of advance. Engage & destroy any capable threatening AFU forces capable of maneuver. Bypass minor or immobile AFU. Detach small reconnaissance units to screen & monitor smaller towns or immobile AFU elements. Isolate avenues of approach/egress of larger towns/cites and detach sufficient forces to isolate/contain. Seal N & W borders of Ukraine, maintain multiple maneuver reserve groups in central, northern & western Ukraine.

Detach minor mobile manuever units deep patrol & sweep from fixed, defensive/fire support bases, offering mutual & ready reaction support.

Mobile border detachments establish defensive/supply points along the N & W borders. Prepare to transform to subsequent 'peacekeepers' re a N & W pseudo DMZ.

Seiged/encircled/blocked towns & cities will surrender quickly given no resources no life sustaining infrastructure.

Assist 'Liberated' civil populace to create new Neutral Constitution lawfully permitting pseudo DMZ & Peacekeepers. No standing military permitted, no alliances nor treaties.

Pack up major formations & go home.

Watch Empire have apoplectic fit.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 0:44 utc | 138

Posted by: Mummer | Nov 20 2022 0:38 utc | 137

Oh my God! I never heard so much drivel.

Posted by: Ed Nelson | Nov 20 2022 0:51 utc | 139

To those like b9k9 & seveneleven, I would encourage you to replace the word Jews with Zionists.

Posted by: ianMoone | Nov 19 2022 23:50 utc | 127

---

The real term is criminal; no strike that, predator

Eliminate every last Jew, secular and religious, and what would emerge?

The exact same criminal class working in conjunction to subvert and enslave their prey

Only maybe this turn of the cycle they might be (han) Chinese or (brahma) Indian.

Trying to reform, accommodate or eliminate evolutionary behavior is either naive or a cynical attempt to seduce

Posted by: B9k9 | Nov 20 2022 0:54 utc | 140

Outraged #58

In other news ...

It has been leaked ... the British Army has developed a new uber covert & unique accelerated training program for forcibly conscripted Ukrainian civilians ~12-60, taking into account the AFU & Ukraines unique requirements, in light of catastrophic lack of everything, even small arms ammunition ...

Uber sponsored British Army meets UAF re training Youtube. Runtime: 3m58s

Superb, may I shout you a banana at the bar.

I see that General Exodus and General Winter have penetrated the entirety of Ukraine with excellent results in Odezza while General Armageddon is busily clearing up the remnants to the north and east.

My look at Military Summary today tells me that Gen. Armageddon is in no rush to catch up with the vanguard as he expects they are more persuasive and will win more hearts and minds as they proceed.

As Victoria Nuland initiated the command to "fuck the EU", I guess that process is part of Gen. Exodus and Gen. Winter battle plan. Well done UKUSA and fellow parasites it seems you have given power back to the unions and the strikers.

Solidarity forever :)

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 20 2022 0:56 utc | 141

Giyane #119

"Britain is a crypto country about to go bust."

Perhaps the UK PM thinks he can lure the Ukrainians to switch accounts from FTX to UK quid?

"What is the difference between a monkey god and Nazi runes?"

One has a modicum of respect for human lives while the other dries their blood to form odd shaped sausage.

This UK PM is an opportunist rsole of course.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 20 2022 1:07 utc | 142

Posted by: Lex | Nov 20 2022 0:04 utc | 130

It won't change a thing. It will make a nightfall.

Follow the money, sadly.

Posted by: Michael | Nov 20 2022 1:08 utc | 143

@ uncle tungsten | Nov 20 2022 0:56 utc | 143

Well met old friend. Solidarity forever. :)

Glad to have been able to tickle your funny bone, 'tis always best to share the lollies rather than keep them for oneself.

Indeed, a veritable phalanx of lethal Generals abound, merely waiting to choose the most opportune moment ... for maximum effect. This winter freeze, next post thaw, or next winter freeze after this one. No need to hurry or be impulsive.

A banana, oh thank you very much, fiber/roughage & magnesium, filling too. I'm having Guinness with a raw Muscle & you ?

Prost & Peace

@ B9k9 | Nov 20 2022 0:44 utc | 139

Barf. Or was that possibly an imposter ... :(

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 1:09 utc | 144

Why all ex-secretary general of NATO come to end in a think tank which carries in its name the word Global and why all of these think tanks are related and in a determinant way implied with the most influential events of the past three years, the "pandemic" and the "war of Ukraine"...?

Anders Fogh Rasmussen----Rasmussen Global

Javier Solana----ISGlobal

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 20 2022 1:11 utc | 145

@Neofeudalfuture All.

You are so right.the putinophiles are real enemies of Russia who want to see Russia doing diaster after disaster in between sleeping for months in the middle of war.
Hundreds of diaster putin has done since 2013. I have a list of that but it will take too long to elaborate .
Let us say that if putkn had givdn s300 to syria in 2013 and go Iran in 2010 then west would have been checked then and there. In 2014 couo putin was pressurisng levitimate President not to usr fofce to quell the nato sponsored disturbznce and insurrection!it is donbass ar.y which fought bravely while putin was content to see hugh casualities in donbass people!

Posted by: sam | Nov 20 2022 1:15 utc | 146

On the plus side this short thread has allowed me to add another 13 commenters to my already large Block list script - I treat trolls, the ocd, disruptive idiots and those who reply to them with rubbish the same way. A Permanent Plonk!

No one needs 25 lines to say Neofeudalfuture's plan is a fantasy. Even that is unnecessary.

@50 gets it -
it’s hard to avoid the impression one has mistakenly stumbled into some kind of a Monty Python version of MoA, a satirical persiflage at best. Accordingly, I’m going to grab another beer, re-boot my computer from a cold start and return here again, with the hopeful expectation of then finding the real Saturday evening MoA Open Thread.

RSH @124 again tells it like it is -
Worse, following that nonsense there are fifty people arguing the lunatic point.

@bar. Really? You all just had to had to had to post pixels to the troll.
And then complain the comments here are shite. FFS.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 19 2022 23:53 utc | 128

It is not rocket science people. Shut up or just go away. And is there a functioning site moderator on duty? Anyone blocking sock-puppet user names yet? Appears not.

Neven at Arctic Sea Ice Forum had a heavy hand deleting certain sorts of trolls. The text was deleted. Some of the shoulda, coulda and woulda fantasies above deserved no reply. Myself, off to Slavyangrad. Posted by: paxmark1 | Nov 19 2022 18:40 utc | 32

Right on. Neven is an excellent site owner. So is his forum software and layout. Brilliant and functional and surprise surprise actually User Friendly.

Funny thing is I just arrived from Slavyangrad!!! My first mistake for the day.

Just passing through. Don't mind me.

Worth repeating, because it's true:

An amphibious assault on Crimea?? -- are the normally serious folks here trolling themselves? ..... instead of completely seemingly-unfeasible conjecture, perhaps come attention might be directed to the upcoming confrontation in Zaporizhzhya where, according to Telegram sources, tens of thousands of Ukr army troops are moving from the Kherson area for a mass attack. Will this be the conclusive battle?
Posted by: chet380 | Nov 19 2022 20:51 utc | 82

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 20 2022 1:17 utc | 147

Note there are MANY non-jew Zionists, and MANY Jews who are NOT Zionists (like True Torah Jews)

Posted by: ianMoone | Nov 19 2022 23:50 utc | 127

Your point is well taken Ian. Most fundamentalist Christians are Zionist, i.e. Christian Zionist due to unique relationship of Christian teaching and the expected "return" of Jesus. That is why may US Christians supported the Balfour Declaration which is widely seen as the precursor to the 1948 Palestinian Nakba when Zionist armed groups, who were trained by the British, forcibly expelled more than 750,000 Palestinians from their homeland.
The Jewish Zionist played the Christian Zionist like a fiddle, and the apartheid state of Israel was created out of nothing.

Posted by: Ed Nelson | Nov 20 2022 1:17 utc | 148

Outraged #146

A banana, oh thank you very much, fiber/roughage & magnesium, filling too. I'm having Guinness with a raw Muscle & you ?

Thank you. A beer and cracker once the sol passes the yard arm.

I currently have more bananas than one can poke a stick at as the last bunch I brought down was immense. neighbours are pleased. More on the way... :)

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 20 2022 1:18 utc | 149

Previous comment was not from me.

In any case most of you here are delusional. Go to any site where Russians talk freely amongst themselves and everyone recognises the obvious.

Reservists are there to hold the line until peace treaty.

Against a fanatical NATO supported Ukraine the underfunded and disorganised Russian state - hollowed out by years of neoliberalism - has no offensive capability left whatsoever.

Strategic nuclear shield prevents an all out assault on the country, that is it.

There will be no grand uprising in the EU.

The US is not going to collapse and fold away it’s empire. The petrodollar will coast along for another 10 years at least.

Probably the US will order Z to accept a worse deal than he could have gotten simply because they don’t want revanchist post Putin doing something reckless.

If Russia is lucky they will have friendly assistance from China to empower a Communist party - offering real renewal and futurist governance - but since most young Russians just want to live normal bourgeois Western lives, instead of dying in a muddy field near Kherson, even this is highly unlikely.

Putin has fucked Russia and his legacy through his the odd character combination of naivety and cynicism.

It’s all over bar the shouting.

Posted by: Moaobserver | Nov 20 2022 1:32 utc | 150

Posted by: Blissex | Nov 19 2022 22:36 utc | 106

On that line the UK BBC reports that a large ukrainian electricity company is urging ukrainians to leave the country, and that repairing the electrical grid will be very difficult:

This sounds like a double-whammy to me: electrical grid destroyed, now compounded by getting rid of potential manpower by sending everyone abroad. Ukraine is stripping itself down to a skeleton crew (literally and figuratively).

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 20 2022 1:32 utc | 151

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 20 2022 1:17 utc | 149

SeanAU, are you still bloviating against MoA contributors? I thought you left a couple of days ago. Go ahead, admit it, you love us, and you can't live without us. Welcome back, but don't expect a free ride: I expect the super intelligent advice from you that you seem to demand from all of us. So, let rip Sean, we are (or at least I am) waiting with bated breath for your great pearls of wisdom.

Posted by: Ed Nelson | Nov 20 2022 1:43 utc | 152

On the plus side this short thread has allowed me to add another 13 commenters to my already large Block list script - I treat troll

🤣` ...

Posted by: Laurence | Nov 20 2022 1:45 utc | 153

Previous comment was not from me.
Moaobserver | Nov 20 2022 1:32 utc | 152

Maybe not, but it was still very funny.

Strategic nuclear shield prevents an all out assault on the country, that is it. There will be no grand uprising in the EU. The US is not going to collapse and fold away it’s empire. The petrodollar will coast along for another 10 years at least.

An understandable pov that may well be on the money as things unfold going forward.

Besides which Russia and China are as full on neoliberal economic growth on steroids where capitalist markets rule the day .... so they toss a little more in for social needs, and health care, so what? That does not change the fundamentals of what is DRIVING these two countries at heart.

Making More Money and Growing the Economic Pie .... until the whole Earth ecosystem collapses and everyone becomes one in spirit with the Kalahari tribes-people.

In the near future they won't be able to eat their Multi-Polar Sovereignty either!

There is only one definite future ahead for humanity : that is a complete economic and social breakdown. What comes next is up for grabs.

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 20 2022 1:45 utc | 154

Moaobserver | Nov 20 2022 1:32 utc | 152

Obvious moronic troll. My last post was @ 138.

Posted by: Moaobserver | Nov 20 2022 1:47 utc | 155

It’s all over bar the shouting.

Posted by: Moaobserver | Nov 20 2022 1:32 utc | 152

Gee! Perhaps you and SeanAU should get a booth, a fifth, and cry about it for a while. You both seem so disheartened and depressed.

Posted by: Ed Nelson | Nov 20 2022 1:52 utc | 156

@ blues | Nov 19 2022 19:47 utc | 66

i hope trump and jamaican are smoking some strong stuff in the negotiations!

@ Outraged | Nov 19 2022 20:00 utc | 71

yes - i agree.. this has been a more light and fun thread.. fun when that happens, although i have to read another 75 or more posts to see what happened next..

@ Outraged | Nov 19 2022 20:27 utc | 76 - good stuff!

@ james | Nov 19 2022 22:50 utc | 110

why are you faking me? have to report you to b now...

-----------
from slavyngrad

"Amid massive Russian strikes on energy infrastructure and total cut-off of electricity supply to Ukrainian citizens, Ukraine has managed to increase its revenues from electricity exports by 2.5 times.

Once again,the people of Ukraine do not have enough electricity, and the state sells it to foreign consumers at higher prices."

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2022 1:54 utc | 157

ZH has a posting up with the title

Ukraine Rejects Alleged Offer Of "Short Truce" By Russia

The takeaway quotes


"Russia is now looking for a short truce, a respite to regain strength. Someone may call this the war's end, but such a respite will only worsen the situation," the Ukrainian leader said in a virtual address before the Halifax International Security Forum.
.......
There was no confirmation from the Kremlin side that such a specific offer was actually made. However, Russia has lately reiterated that it has always remained open to the possibility of dialogue. During his virtual G20 address last week, Zelensky issued a 10-point plan for ceasefire, which included the hardline position that no territorial concessions would be made.

What do you get when you cross Wag The Dog with Groundhog Day? Its a blockbuster with lots of bluster and not blocking the birth of the China/Russia axis but entertaining the Western masses

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 20 2022 1:58 utc | 158

Christ knows what Neofeudaltedium and ZZZanon will make of the news but according to RT the fascists are now evacuating civilians from the part of Kherson that they occupied in that famous victory over Russia that has had NATO celebrating ever since.
Normally the fascists torture civilians before they are evacuated.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 20 2022 2:04 utc | 159

Russia's winter strategy playing out, beginning with destruction of Ukraine's gas infrastructure:

The Ukrainian media, citing the management of the national oil and gas company Naftogaz, reported that the Russian army launched the missile strikes on certain gas infrastructure facilities in the Kiev and Kharkov regions.

The operator of the Ukrainian gas transport system did not disclose the facilities that were hit. Therefore it can be assumed that the damage was not of a strategic nature. The targets likely were the Shebelinsky gas processing plant near Balakleya in the Kharkov region and a mining enterprise in the Kiev region.

The first strikes on the gas infrastructure facilities are a warning not only to Ukraine, but also to its Western allies, especially its European partners.

Its all over but the freezing ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 20 2022 2:04 utc | 160

Russia's winter strategy playing out, beginning with destruction of Ukraine's gas infrastructure:

The Ukrainian media, citing the management of the national oil and gas company Naftogaz, reported that the Russian army launched the missile strikes on certain gas infrastructure facilities in the Kiev and Kharkov regions.

The operator of the Ukrainian gas transport system did not disclose the facilities that were hit. Therefore it can be assumed that the damage was not of a strategic nature. The targets likely were the Shebelinsky gas processing plant near Balakleya in the Kharkov region and a mining enterprise in the Kiev region.

The first strikes on the gas infrastructure facilities are a warning not only to Ukraine, but also to its Western allies, especially its European partners.

Its all over but the freezing ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 20 2022 2:04 utc | 161

"Back in summer Ukraine destroyed dozens of fighter jets."

Russian warplanes destroyed in Crimea airbase attack, satellite images show
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/11/russian-warplanes-destroyed-in-crimea-saky-airbase-attack-satellite-images-show

Posted by: Zanon
__________________________________

Poor Zanon, doesn't even bother to read the articles it links! If it did, it would have discovered the article says NINE planes were destroyed and any further research would have shown barely any of those were combat capable! Indeed, all were ancient planes that wouldn't be useful for training as they were far too old and slow!

Can we get a better lot of trolls around here??? I come here to learn and this Z-thingy just mucks things up!!

Posted by: Garry Owen | Nov 20 2022 2:05 utc | 162

Posted by: bevin | Nov 20 2022 2:04 utc | 161

Christ knows what Neofeudaltedium and ZZZanon will make of the news but according to RT the fascists are now evacuating civilians from the part of Kherson that they occupied in that famous ...

They'll do what professional bullshitters do:

Find something new to bullshit about and continue on as if nothing has happened ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 20 2022 2:07 utc | 163

@ SeanAU | Nov 20 2022 1:17 utc | 149

It is not rocket science people. Shut up or just go away.

Outstanding advise, my dear dear friend. Since you no doubt are a firm proponent in & devotee of your own advice, suggest you demonstrate the value of your profound beliefs & convictions & therefore as an example to the rest of the bar, follow through on your own advice. Got a spare seat for moaobserver, probably needs a lift ? Do run along then, go on.

Hm, what's suitable from the corner Jukebox, ah yes, this will do:

The Animals - We Gotta Get Out Of This Place Youtube. Runtime: 3m12s

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 2:08 utc | 164

Dr. George Oprisko writes: "The current Ukrainian war is depleting all stocks... and NATO will find itself unable to replace them." He points out that many of the companies that made components for systems like the F22 no longer exist. I concur. We have this war in the Ukraine and the larger economic world war because the US neoliberal system has led to deindustrialization and hyperfinancialization -- global ponzi scheme, which same under threat about 20 years ago with the re-emergence of Russia from post Soviet chaos and the development of China. The US of A and the British Empire were successful in the 19th and early 20th Century thanks to neocolonial control of resources feeding a huge industrial base. The UK's industrial base had collapsed by 1945. the US's post Vietnam. Now, the US no longer has access to resources as it once did. This weakness leaves nothing but the a myth of absolute power. This is ultimately why the US and NATO are losing -- not just in the Ukraine--which will likely disappear as a country, with maybe Galicia gifted to Poland - but globally. Most people predict that the US will hang on at least 20 or 30 years as the world's Hegemon. I doubt it. The throne of any empire is its industrial base. Russia has that, thanks to US sanctions.

https://julianmacfarlane.substack.com/p/putins-winnin-weakness

Posted by: julianmacfarlane | Nov 20 2022 2:09 utc | 165

james@79 "are we doing the Jew thing again?" Ask seveneleven and B9K9. I suppose asking me somehow supposed to hint I'm being rude in objecting anti-Semitism, or maybe even implying I'm making it up.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 19 2022 21:51 utc | 94

Jewish power controls the world through its control of the US media and political system. We have to be able to talk about who is in charge or we will never be able to hold the power ruining the world at the moment accountable for its actions. By all means we should discuss Jews.

Posted by: seveneleven | Nov 20 2022 2:10 utc | 166

Greene is out of step with the American people and has threatened to cut off funding to the heroic Ukrainian resistance against Putin’s illegal war. As Russian troops succumb to General Winter it will be interesting to see how Germans and Czechs rally to their leaders to support the noble Ukrainian fight. Slava Ukrainia!

Posted by: Dani | Nov 19 2022 22:25 utc | 104
___________________________________________________________

Gosh, I love satire and this is some really funny sh*t! Dani, can you write some more like this???

Posted by: Garry Owen | Nov 20 2022 2:11 utc | 167

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 2:08 utc | 166

Got a spare seat for moaobserver, probably needs a lift ? Do run along then, go on.

Not gonna work, he's OCD. Once he's got a bone he won't let go of the thing.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 20 2022 2:12 utc | 168

reply to 36

Crimea? Does Ukraine have enough pickup trucks for battle?

Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 20 2022 2:17 utc | 169

Posted by: B9k9 | Nov 20 2022 0:44 utc | 13

Now your comment will be buried with other posts. But I saw what you said and see what you see.

Posted by: si tacuisses | Nov 20 2022 2:33 utc | 170

OK so you've been paying attention to Ukraine and what happens here on MoA.
You know what's going on. Nothing gets past you, right?

Here's a simple selective attention test to prove that to yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo

- how well did you do?

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 20 2022 2:44 utc | 171

Try another - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGQmdoK_ZfY

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 20 2022 2:46 utc | 172

@ B9k9 | Nov 20 2022 0:44 utc | 139

karlof1s post is at 122, not 12..

@ si tacuisses | Nov 20 2022 2:33 utc | 172

B9k9's post is at 139, not 13...

hey guys.. are you two related?? you make it difficult to follow the replies when you leave out the last number for the post you are supposedly replying to..

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2022 2:47 utc | 173

Garry Owen | Nov 20 2022 2:11 utc | 169

The war in Ukraine began with unprovoked Russian attacks upon Ukrainian army and naval forces engaged in peacekeeping activities near the Donbas regions and upon the larger civilian infrastructure throughout the country. After Ukrainian forces inflicted approximately 20,000-25,000 casualties upon Russian troops near Kiev, the Russians retreated to a defensive line in the terrorist-occupied Ukrainian cities of Donetsk and Lugansk. Ukrainian forces then executed a strategic withdrawal from Mariupol, inflicting another 20,000-25,000 casualties upon Russian troops. Ukrainian forces regrouped west of Kharkov and drove southward, expelling Russian troops from the region and into the Donetsk bottleneck. This month Ukrainian forces did the same to Russian troops in Kherson, inflicting another 20,000-25,000 casualties and forcing the remainder to flee south of the river Dnieper. Russia responded by launching most of their remaining inventory of missiles at the country’s civilian infrastructure. Ukrainian forces have suffered some casualties during this time, with 7,279 known military dead an some 12,000 plus wounded. Russian forces have also killed approximately 50,000 Ukrainian civilians during their illegal war against Ukraine.

Posted by: Dani | Nov 20 2022 2:48 utc | 174

hopehely | November 20, 2022 at 00:18
>>……I am a but puzzled how did (Sunak) manage to (supplicate to Selensky in Kiev) under current circumstances. It is quite a trip from Polish border to Kiev. And back. “
Dunno. I’m actually in awe of Ukraine. Here, in our major metro cities, city-wide chaos can be caused by one set of malfunctioning signal lights at peak commute.
One accident on the Sydney harbour bridge a few years back caused a 7 hour traffic logjam, and impacted Melb and Brisbane with flight delays/ cancellations and causing overnight truck deliveries to be days behind.
I can’t imagine having half the electricity grid down and road blockages… for nine months… something is really strange about it all….

So.. I was dumbfounded by this:
MFA Ukraine
The first in 9 months “Victory Train” arrived today in #Kherson from #Kyiv, as #Ukraine resumed railway connection between Ukrainian capital and the liberated city.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MFA_Ukraine/status/1593930349482049536

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 20 2022 2:49 utc | 175

@ Garry Owen | Nov 20 2022 2:11 utc | 169

your wish has been granted!

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2022 2:52 utc | 176

James copy/paste went wrong indeed you are correct the post I was referring to was 139. Thank you. Changes nothing of substance. Appreciate your correction though:)

Posted by: si tacuisses | Nov 20 2022 2:52 utc | 177

@bar
Some bullshit underway with Turkey bombing Syria….
How about trawling some non msm to get a take on what how, why now…..and outcomes…
Or. Sit here with yer thumb up yer bum.
IDGAF

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 20 2022 2:54 utc | 178

I think as Eighthman | Nov 20 2022 2:17 utc | 171 has intimated we need to seriously discuss the criticality of the RF MBT vs AFU 'Pickup Truck' gap !

although i have to read another 75 or more posts to see what happened next..

@ james | Nov 20 2022 1:54 utc | 159

Patience, young Padawan. ;)

WWII started on 1st September 1939 (Actually, REAL, serious historians consider 7 July 1937 China, or start of the Spanish Civil War 17 July 1936, maybe even the Mukden Incident in September 1931 China as the true start date of WWII).

Anyways most forget or never knew that on the western front, though at declared war status & mobilized, a phony War(Sitzkrieg) went on for 8 months until the Wehrmacht 10 May 1940 invasion of France & the Low countries. Boring as watching paint dry, so be prepared for this current Phony War phase to run for another likely 6+ weeks, to 5-6 months, to even a whole year ... sorry. Hopefully the twolls will loose interest too, or have funding reduced in the interim to get the post count down.:)

Peace

@ julianmacfarlane | Nov 20 2022 2:09 utc | 167

Its not only that F22 has extremely low sortie rates, few are serviceable, and since use analogue tech have zero ability to integrate into Modern digital C4 battlespace. Ooh Crap! Aaand, is the one and only Empire aircraft with any prospect of penetrating RF Strategic/Theater/Tactical/Layered/Overlapping/Integrated AD Defense on an airborne 2022 Ride of the Valiant 600, rehash of the Charge of the Light Brigade. Oops.

Please reply in Open thread. IF I was to subscribe as suggested it would have to be with a discardable burner addy. Please reply if you so choose in OT threat.

Peace

@ Arch Bungle | Nov 20 2022 2:12 utc | 170

Oh. :(

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 2:57 utc | 179

Hopehely @ 134:

I always assume that when a British Prime Minister flies out to meet President Ze in Kiev, they actually meet in a film lot made up to look like downtown Kiev in some remote place in southeast Poland near the Ukrainian border.

Otherwise my understanding is that an express trip from the Polish-Ukrainian border to Kiev takes about eight hours at least.

Posted by: Jen | Nov 20 2022 3:06 utc | 180

Re my comment @ 182: express train trip, that is.

Posted by: Jen | Nov 20 2022 3:07 utc | 181

How is Turkey related to a Ukraine thread…
The US is PISSSSSSED Turkey is finding common ground with Russia.
>Upheld Montreau Agreement
>blocking Sweden and Finland into NATO (for now)
>grain deal ($$$$$$ to Turkey)
>announcement of new gas hub (diluting I pact of NS2 elimination)
>Ankara and Istanbul as locations for diplomatic negotiations..
>Turkey’s forever geopolitical location always making it the doorway for Europe, Central Asia, and Middle East.
>Erdogan dodged assassination. He hasn’t forgotten. Nor have CIA Mi6. Scores to be settled..

That’s for entree…

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 20 2022 3:08 utc | 182

Dani @ 176

Hilarious.

Posted by: Objective Observer | Nov 20 2022 3:13 utc | 183

Here you go Melaleuca | Nov 20 2022 2:54 utc | 180, but must warn you my PC is powered by an overweight, aged, diabetic hamster, in a rickety running wheel powering a bicycle alternator as a DC generator for the PC input, and rather slow ... so cute though.(Disclosure, I'm posting from Kiev)

Moscow slams Poland's refusal to issue visa to Russian foreign minister

Russian Foreign Ministry says Poland's chairmanship 'caused irreparable damage' to OSCE

Bulgaria detains five for suspected complicity in Istanbul terror attack

3 Moldavian nationals, 2 Arabs of unspecified nationality to be kept in custody for 72 hours, says official

Syria: Deadly Turkish air strikes hit several northern border towns

Iraq: Four soldiers killed in pre-dawn assault in disputed northern area

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 3:14 utc | 184

Outraged | Nov 20 2022 2:08 utc | 166

Dear Outraged, if you were a puddle you;d be as deep as damp piece of paper.

You do not impress me one bit. But hey, if desire to imagine yourself as the resident all-knowing genius then by all means have at it. Do not let me get in your way. Speak up man. Feel free to sue me in court even.

Just because you seem to have great difficulty parsing what others actually say and what that means is not a valid reason to not remain self-deluded. I get that, I really do. Because there is nothing you can do about it.

So as they say in the classics, Peace.

It's always such a nice touch. Glad I uncloaked you for a moment, I figured what you might be up to again. I must be Psychic hey?

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 20 2022 3:15 utc | 185

>> Posted by: Neofeudalfuture

Oh, come on!! Seriously? Is this for real?

I mean this is MoA - it deserves a better quality of troll than this cretin. Where's UK Tom? Where's Yenwoda?

What the hell is going on here? It's bad enough that Zanon barely cuts it these days - coz obviously his hearts simply not in it and he's just going through the motions - but then to gratuitously insult us with a drooling imbecile like Neofeudalfuture is just unfair.

Give us back our higher quality trolls, dammit!!!

Posted by: KyleKoffler | Nov 20 2022 3:15 utc | 186

Prelim. Info. Will probably need revisions and updating .
But it seems the Turks are bombing Kurds along a long front on the Turkish Syrian Iraq border…
Some locations are named as:
Suriye/Ayn el Arab
Suriye/Ayn İsa
Suriye/Ayn Dagne
Suriye/Derbesiye
Suriye/Tel Rıfat
Suriye/Maranez
Suriye/Malikiye
Suriye/Minnig Havalimanı
Irak/Asos
Irak/Süleymaniye
Irak/Sincar
Irak/Kandil
Irak/Senkeser

This is a response/ reprisal for the US/Kurd terrorist bombing in Istanbul last week.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 20 2022 3:17 utc | 187

@185, right.

And Canada sent a large contenge of drones to attack Michgan power lines and nuclear stations. An official states that Detroit maybe next.


Posted by: Forest | Nov 20 2022 3:20 utc | 188

Malaleuca @ 180

From Malaysia - Turkey Bombs Syria and Iraq

Turkey Bombs Kurds - from Malay Mail

From Al-Monitor
Turkey Bombs Syria

Posted by: Objective Observer | Nov 20 2022 3:24 utc | 189

Obj Obs @ 191

Sorry...Melaleuca.

Posted by: Objective Observer | Nov 20 2022 3:25 utc | 190

Some sources
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/11/turkey-bombs-syria-iraq-response-istanbul-terror-attack
https://sputniknews.com/20221120/turkey-targeting-ypg-in-northern-syria-iraq---reports-1104445442.html


@HDP_Europe (Twitter)
Peoples’ Democratic Party (#HDP) Official Representation in Europe
Located in Brussels. A scroll through the tweet history affords some on-site into who is inciting who..

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 20 2022 3:31 utc | 191

@ SeanAU | Nov 20 2022 3:15 utc | 187

Sorry, couldn't parse a word of that, alas. However, did catch the phrase 'Speak up Man', though cannot as I self-identify as an 'Uber' and request, in fact insist, that YOU respect that choice, when addressing me, SeanAU.

Have you ever Lurked ? Am sure I enjoyed your posts much more when you were lurking ...

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 3:34 utc | 192

How completely useless is the UKUSA military?

This effing useless!- as Andre Martyanov illustrates.

He is laughing at the Mr Magoos in the US media military complex who keep insisting that Russia has run out of ammo, missiles, drones, condoms and pickles. It appears that Janes defence weekly now suspects that Russia might have created stockpiles of essential chips used in its missile manufacture!

Do tell Mr Janes defence weekly or whatever you call yourself. In the chip consumer business people of the stature of defence or washing machine or motor vehicle industry purchase three to six months supply AT LEAST! Common chips are made in batches and often months (or more) separate each run so consumers of industrial quantities purchase a f*ing long way ahead.

Russia thinks and acts strategically and typically plans well ahead - its a slavic thing and some other survivors of northern winters do likewise. Even more so when the country is confronted with decades of threats and actual sanctions. Clearly the USA is not capable of this intellectual challenge.

The dopes in the EU leadership had better hope that their exit when the time comes does not resemble Kabul airport 2021.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 20 2022 3:36 utc | 193

Melaleuca #177

So.. I was dumbfounded by this:
MFA Ukraine
The first in 9 months “Victory Train” arrived today in #Kherson from #Kyiv, as #Ukraine resumed railway connection between Ukrainian capital and the liberated city.


Easy to understand. The Ukes used lots of cocaine, beans and garlic and this Polish thingy to cover the final 120 kilometers.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 20 2022 3:45 utc | 194

The war in Ukraine began with unprovoked Russian attacks upon Ukrainian army and naval forces engaged in peacekeeping activities near the Donbas regions and upon the larger civilian infrastructure throughout the country. After Ukrainian forces inflicted approximately 20,000-25,000 casualties upon Russian troops near Kiev, the Russians retreated to a defensive line in the terrorist-occupied Ukrainian cities of Donetsk and Lugansk. Ukrainian forces then executed a strategic withdrawal from Mariupol, inflicting another 20,000-25,000 casualties upon Russian troops. Ukrainian forces regrouped west of Kharkov and drove southward, expelling Russian troops from the region and into the Donetsk bottleneck. This month Ukrainian forces did the same to Russian troops in Kherson, inflicting another 20,000-25,000 casualties and forcing the remainder to flee south of the river Dnieper. Russia responded by launching most of their remaining inventory of missiles at the country’s civilian infrastructure. Ukrainian forces have suffered some casualties during this time, with 7,279 known military dead an some 12,000 plus wounded. Russian forces have also killed approximately 50,000 Ukrainian civilians during their illegal war against Ukraine.
Posted by: Dani | Nov 20 2022 2:48 utc | 176
________________________________________________________

ROTFLMAO!!! Please!!! Somebody make Dani stop, she's killing me, my sides have almost split and my eyes are tearing up badly from hysterical laughter!!

Posted by: Garry Owen | Nov 20 2022 3:47 utc | 195

Seems our pro-NATO posters are too shy to reveal the whole plan, just tidbits of what is to come. Joe Biden has been faking dementia, he is really playing 4D chess with the dopey Russians, to date he has just used the war to deplete Russian missiles and decimate their conscripted forced army.

Soon the lizard aliens will reveal their true selves as fighters for freedom and democracy, led by Elizabeth II who isn't really dead of course, a hundred thousand strong lizard army will attack the Russians screaming Slava Ukraine and with their armored skin will march into Crimea.

Meanwhile the US who has alien technology from Area 51, will unleash their amazing jamming tech that will render all those washing machine chipped weapons completely useless, and led by the 101 airborne and Azov heroes will air drop into Moscow and arrest Putin for war crimes. It will end very quickly in total humiliation and Russia chopped up into smaller states run by Jewish Oligarchs.

Posted by: Organic | Nov 20 2022 3:54 utc | 196

Melaleuca #189

Prelim. Info. Will probably need revisions and updating .
But it seems the Turks are bombing Kurds along a long front on the Turkish Syrian Iraq border…

Perhaps Erdogan is after the Armenian voters still in Turkey. The Kurds have shat in their nest - repeatedly - not too many Syrians will be weeping.

The USAI will be furious if Turkey is to open a new 'front' to drive these collaborators back into Iraq. Expect bad stuff from Israel in the next 24 hours - just like the last 24 hours - that is.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 20 2022 3:56 utc | 197

@ si tacuisses | Nov 20 2022 2:52 utc | 179

thanks..

@ Melaleuca | Nov 20 2022 2:54 utc | 180

further to the sources already listed, i was reading this from strategic culture from a few days ago which conforms with all today..

Istanbul Terror Attack May Prompt Turkish Invasion and Deportations

@ Outraged | Nov 20 2022 2:57 utc | 181

that is a good insight you've shared... taking the long view and realizing how history is always in the making is what i get from you here.. thanks!

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2022 3:58 utc | 198

Garry Owen | Nov 20 2022 3:47 utc | 197

Zelenski is the Winston Churchill of our age.

Posted by: Dani | Nov 20 2022 4:02 utc | 199

🇺🇦🇷🇺"The evacuation from Kherson city has begun, the Nikolaev region will help"-Deputy PM of Ukraine Irina Vereshchuk.

The head of the Office of the President of Ukraine Ermak in his telegram complained about the shelling by Russian troops of the"liberated territory of Kherson".

It is reported from the field that,in fact,Russian Aerospace Forces and artillery do not allow AFU to concentrate forces and equipment for shelling civilian and military facilities on the left bank of the Dnieper...


https://t.me/azmilitary11/29033

Posted by: Down South | Nov 20 2022 4:04 utc | 200

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