Dear dear Ed Nelson | Nov 18 2022 0:45 utc | 165
Riiiiight, so despite your almost daily discussions and fights with @Zanon The Troll and Click-bait Sub-genius you do not consider him a Blow Hard? Really?
In your many years as a MoA Resident on a Barstool you’ve never seen any Blow Hards round these parts? Really? No useless Trolls and general stupid idiots hanging out here? Never? NOt even recently?
Really?
But you are quite happy to ASSUME I must have been talking about you and all your close friends here, and so your nose has been knocked out of it’s joint because you have been able to turn reality on it’s head and know for certain I was accusing you and them of being Blow Hards …. wow that took some doing. Congratulations.
Unfortunately you are mirroring Outraged’ recent paranoid behavior who is demanding an Apology for Will Gruffs generalised opinion about “Intelligence Agents” because he is so terribly hurt and personally offended by same or he is going to the issue the Lawsuit from Hell against him.
I can only assume he’ll drag B into as a key Co-defendant in the Suit.
Poor babies.
Sorry, I am not a Lawyer for hire and nor am I going to volunteer to be a Therapist for either of you and the hundreds of others in dire need.
Insulting? Seriously – get a clue! Grow up. And get a life!

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 18 2022 3:28 utc | 203

@ julianmacfarlane | Nov 18 2022 2:58 utc | 199
Love your byline … Never on the lips. 🙂
Need an editor or proof-reader.
Miscellaneous typos, flipping back & forth between correct & incorrect Mil abbreviations, ie AFU > UAF > AFU. Minor issues yet raise credibility/believability(sic) doubts re factual content and analysis, even if only subliminally.
Very accessible writing style, witty & skillful use of casual light humor, to help emphasize important points, without becoming a detraction. You have been studying & paying attention re pseudo academic Mil Academy Staff Studies(Junior Commissioned Officer). Very easy to comprehend pseudo jargon descriptions, consistently succinct, concise & appropriate complimentary & supplementary inline explanations & application re minor highlighting of context & significance. Imparts understanding & applied knowledge in a comfortable, smooth tight stream & flown no verbosity.
This would be very accessible easy read to a common wider audience that was seeking out answers.
Please accept brief positive critique offered in good faith, sincerely.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 18 2022 3:29 utc | 205

@ Richard Steven Hack | Nov 18 2022 0:05 utc | 152
Yeah thanks, I know your feelings. I saw them when I first arrived but didn’t know enough to get what you were saying. Now I do. It’s even worse than a few months ago now.
Is that even you Richard or just another sack of shit troll pretending to be you.
Or me?
Many of the comments here are equal to those found on RT. But despite all the trolls, shit stirrers, fools, non-stop blow hards it cannot get more pathetic than that being hijacked by a Sock-Puppet Troll using other people’s Nyms.
That truly takes the cake.
If you RSH or anyone knows of decent forum out there where one can see a slice of wisdom even if only occasionally do let me know. Cheers and best of luck to all.

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 18 2022 3:42 utc | 207

Note that this troll discussion is fueled by one particular troll, who said that he would leave, but keeps on posting, probably sock-puppeteering himself.
The organised trolling is very largely focused on one particular goal: to form the opposition. If nothing else works, simply to lead it to useless activity.
On topic: the missile was not a Ukrainian cowboy stunt but spook business as usual, a miserable CIA/MI6/Media fail, of course with Ukrainian and Polish agents. Note that it was first reported by an “Anonymous intelligence officer”. These guys are utterly useless, but dangerous and basically unaccountable, until the Pentagon grows a pair. But Milley is also afraid of them.

Posted by: veto | Nov 18 2022 3:51 utc | 209

@ SeanAU | Nov 18 2022 3:51 utc | 208
Given what you actually are …
Public Service Announcement:

Do not ‘attack’ other commentators.

And by your overt act have now removed any lingering doubt, including re your interlinked conversational buddies.
Thank you. Have a nice day. Would you like some Freedumb Fries with that ? 🙂
PS Yer enacting a self-defeating strategy.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 18 2022 3:58 utc | 211

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 17 2022 23:06 utc | 139
Heard you leavin’? Please do hurry along!

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2022 4:14 utc | 213

Dymtro Kuleba. Ukraine Minister of Foreign Affairs
“…I spoke to @RauZbigniew Ukraine and Poland will cooperate constructively and openly on the incident caused by Russian missile terror against Ukraine.
Our experts are already in Poland.
We expect them to swiftly get access to the site in cooperation with Polish law enforcement.”
https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1593278491025457153

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 18 2022 4:17 utc | 215

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 18 2022 4:27 utc | 218
Reverse psychology.
Works. Every. Time.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2022 4:28 utc | 217

Jees, the Big Guy stops getting his 10% via FTX and everything turns against Ukraine. You gotta pay the piper!

Posted by: barstool | Nov 18 2022 4:35 utc | 219

@bar

For
Fucks
Sake
There’s more bitching here than at an all girl school with them all on their rags together.
If there’s not enough “quality” info being served up pre-masticated for the exacting sensibilities of some….get off your flabby flatulent arse and start researching ….. go trawling.
Simultaneously at least two things are true: the information space is a tightly controlled curated narrative.
And.
The information space is the Wild West.
Polish MEP Radosław Sikorski, fucked up when he tweeted “thank you USA” hours after NS2 blew.
Back during the debacle departure from Afghanistan, the 82nd Airborne tweeted their sniper position at Kabul airport. Hours later about 80 people were shot… yes, there was a suicide bomber who took out about 20… and about 80 died from gun shots.
Reports were that the crowd were fired on… and the tweet from the 82nd was …. Well it not deleted… it had never been tweeted.
Want info…want intel?
Trawl. Trawl..
Twitter …
Trawl media from non mainstream western publications.. it’s actually amazing what finds it’s way into the information space, despite the boot on the throat from western intel-owned/controlled sources.
Or.
Hang around on barstools and trade insults.
IDGAF.
I’m here for information first and a bit of camaraderie.
Like a favourite bar.
If I want bitching girls I can follow adolescent family on tictok

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 18 2022 4:42 utc | 221

interesting read and viewpoint on the politics of poland in relation to ukraine generally and the missile that landed in poland..
john helmer –
WHY DON’T THE POLES ADMIT THE WAR ISN’T WINNING THE NEXT POLISH ELECTION AND ISN’T IN POLAND’S NATIONAL INTEREST – UNLESS ZELENSKY LOSES GALICIA TO POLAND, AGAIN

Posted by: james | Nov 18 2022 4:56 utc | 223

🇺🇦🇷🇺⚡Ministry of Defense of Ukraine expressed concern over the fact that millions of Ukrainians are subscribed to Russian Telegram channels
“Millions of Ukrainians today are subscribed to Telegram channels that are filled and maintained by the Russian Federation and its representatives,” UNN quotes a statement by Deputy Defense Minister of Ukraine Anna Malyar. “We have repeatedly published this list, but, unfortunately, their Ukrainian audience continues to grow for some reason,” she said.

https://t.me/intelslava/41300

Posted by: Down South | Nov 18 2022 4:59 utc | 225

@Outraged @183
“Sorry, false. The export models of S-300P & subvariants are designed for addition use in Ground attack if loading the correct missile. Max range depends on weather is USSR/RF model, or export only.”
What does it use for guidance? It seems kind of silly to design an anti-air system and then bastardize it for a ground-attack role in which you have to replace everything but the truck.
“The S-300 is a family of Russian-made surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems capable of engaging aircraft and UAVs in addition to providing some cruise and ballistic missile defense capability. The S-300P variant, also known as the SA-10 Grumble, was designed by the Soviet Union during the 1960s and 70s, and is used only for air defense. Derived from the S-300P is the S-300V, also known as the SA-23A Gladiator and the SA-23B Giant, which is equipped with an anti-ballistic missile capability, and is similar in several respects to the U.S. Patriot Advanced Capability-2 (PAC-2).”
https://missilethreat.csis.org/defsys/s-300/

Posted by: Mark | Nov 18 2022 5:03 utc | 227

interesting overview on the farmers in the zaporozhye and kherson regions… the dynamic sounds very challenging… from rybar telegram
“Preparation for the sowing campaign in the new territories of the Russian Federation
In Zaporozhye and Kherson regions, the sowing campaign of winter crops began in November. However, it is not going as smoothly as we would like – farmers are faced with a number of difficulties.
▪️The autumn harvest was quite successful and the storage facilities are full. But it is unprofitable to sell grain to the State Grain Operator established in the Zaporozhye region. Farmers complain that they were paid only 30-40% of what was promised, and the rest of the money should be paid later.
▪️Some farmers sell grain to resellers who are ready to pay the entire amount at once, but at a low price and without official registration of the purchase. But due to the sale of grain for cash, farmers may lose subsidies and subsidies.
▪️To receive subsidies, farmers need to contact the relevant ministry of Zaporozhye or Kherson regions. To do this, you need to get into the register of agricultural producers and provide a package of documents.
▪️Many shareholders have left, and without them, farmers cannot arrange land lease. In the Kherson region, this problem is solved by transferring their land to the authorities, who lease land to farmers. In addition, because of this, it is difficult to obtain documents for obtaining financial assistance.
▪️Also, to receive a subsidy, a financial report for the past year is required. But in Ukrainian realities, many farmers generally worked without registration. And IPs registered under Russia are too “young” to receive a subsidy.
🔻In such conditions, it is extremely important for farmers to simplify the procedure for obtaining subsidies and access to cheap loans. In this way, it will be possible to support the grain growers.
▪️Zaporozhye farmers could buy fertilizers in Ukraine three months ago because they are cheaper there. Now this opportunity has closed.
▪️Ammonium nitrate is brought to the Zaporozhye region at a price of 33 thousand rubles per ton. It is brought from Krasnodar, where it is sold at an average of 22-24 thousand rubles per ton.
🔻With such a price for fertilizers and problems with loans, the future of Zaporozhye and Kherson farmers is in big question. Many farmers are perplexed: in Russia, there are difficulties in selling fertilizers abroad, but such huge prices are on the domestic market.
As a result, many of them think about selling land and equipment and moving to another region. And fears and disturbing rumors in connection with the departure from Kherson only increase such depressive moods.”

Posted by: james | Nov 18 2022 5:05 utc | 229

also from rybar..
“Highlights of Russian Military Operation in Ukraine on November 17, 2022
▪️Russian Armed Forces continue massive strikes on Ukrainian military and industrial infrastructure facilities.
Shebelynka Gas Processing Plant became one of the targets in Kharkiv Region.
▪️ In Dnipro, the Zenit missile assembly facility at Yuzhmash was the target of the Russian strike.
As reported, electric substations and gas industry facilities were also hit.
▪️A military unit in Odessa and infrastructure facilities in the region were hit in the region.
According to local authorities, more than 70% of consumers have no electricity.
▪️Ukrainian units continue strikes on Belgorod Region.
As a result of the shelling from MLRS in Shebekino, residential buildings were destroyed and a teenage girl was injured.
▪️In Dzhankoi, Russian Armed Forces’ Air Defence repelled Ukrainian units’ missile strike.
Near Feodosia, a Ukrainian UAV that was trying to attack an electrical substation was shot down.
▪️Near Bakhmut, Ukrainian Command deploy reserves to stop the advance of Wagner’s PMC assault units.
Near Opytne, Wagner’s PMC units defeated AFU’s reinforced assault forcing the enemy to retreat.
▪️In Donetsk Direction, DPR People’s Militia’s units develop their offensive on Nevelske.
With fighting, the control is established over an important “Bassain” fortification on the outskirts of the settlement.
▪️In Starobilsk Direction, the enemy continues to attack Stel’makhivka and Kuzemivka.
Russian Armed Forces detect the movement of assault groups and fire them with artillery and MLRS.”

Posted by: james | Nov 18 2022 5:13 utc | 231

reply to Arch Bungle 181
“The purpose of it was to demonstrate to Russia just how close to invoking Article 4. NATO is willing to go.”
Yes! That fits! For clearly the meeting the US had with Russia did not go well, which is why we hear and heard nothing about it other than the US usual, “We shure told them.”
So yes, this “event” was an orchestrated show of force, or pretense of force. Russia I am sure knows that there is no way NATO members are going to act, for the simple reason they can’t as they have already given away all their weaponry.
And now the latest US warmongering with China, the let’s support Taiwan! yet another smoke and mirrors crisis to support further robbery of the US treasury, what’s left of it. As well as to distract the world from its failures in Ukraine and elsewhere.
Anyone with half a brain outside of the West’s MSM control can see the US is running out of games to play and nation’s to play them with. I expect to hear any day now that we will be invading Guam…/s

Posted by: Bonami | Nov 18 2022 5:41 utc | 233

I’ve tried three times to post the usual summary I post with and without the TG li I. Hopefully it shows up.

Posted by: Down South | Nov 18 2022 5:52 utc | 235

This is what fantasy land looks like: “The purpose of it was to demonstrate to Russia just how close to invoking Article 4. NATO is willing to go.”
bollocks
equals
waste
of
time
—
@Melaleuca says: I’m here for information first and a bit of camaraderie. Like a favourite bar.
Melaleuca, bars also attract cheap drunks, and life-long alcoholics by the dozen.
You make good points. The limitations remain.
How would I know if Melaleuca was another sock-puppet being used by a committed disruptive troll?

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 18 2022 5:54 utc | 237

Sean
please do not accuse me of wanting to cancel anyone. i am strongly opposed to it. I just call for off topic posts to go to the open thread.
The only people I want to cancel are the obvious racists, and it is not so much the fact that they are racist- it is an opinion I loathe but everyone has a right to it. However in the world we live in and partly because of historic events it is dangerous for B to tolerate blatantly anti Jewish rants. It is a sad fact of life that you could have anti Muslim rants and even anti black rants and get away with it, but because of the atrocious behaviour of Germany in WWII we have no option for tolerating that sort of anti Jewish rants.
That being said i despise racism in all its forms.

Posted by: watcher | Nov 18 2022 5:59 utc | 239

Sean
Most of us have the brains to respond to the content of a comment, not the person posting it. If trolls hijack names, it does not matter much, since we can respond to the content anyway. A few apologies may be needed if someone is being used, but that is not the end of the world.

Posted by: watcher | Nov 18 2022 6:02 utc | 241

@ Posted by: Bonami | Nov 18 2022 5:41 utc | 235
Um, we invaded Guam long ago & have militarily occupied & over-developed it ever since, Guam native populace ? No real (pointless) votes for you(See: Puerto Rico). Might as well have invaded Diego Garcia, occupied ever since thank to rogue perfidious Albion. Native Ghagosians(?) expelled, destitute, culture in peril … same formerly sovereign Hawaii early coup …
Can we re-invade our own occupied territories. Of course ! Rules-based-Order. /s

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 18 2022 6:12 utc | 243

Anthony | Nov 17 2022 21:36 utc | 109
You have your immunity. nothing is more robust, especially $$$ Billions can not touch your immunity.
So, please don’t gas light here.
Its all just narrative.

Posted by: Mann Friedman | Nov 18 2022 6:20 utc | 245

@ Mark | Nov 18 2022 5:03 utc | 229
Given it uses a custom derivative missile, with small or large ground burst warhead, rather that airborne target guidance & lockon with variant airburst warheads designed to hit thin skin aircraft/missiles.
Think much more modern generation of V1 buzzbomb.
Load on launcher, connect a data link to warhead, program target data, launch site data, for Glonass target co-ordinates with co-operative inertial guidance(internal to warhead). Or do it all in control pod and have a soldier connect the link, upload, disconnect. Launch. All other elements of S300 system platforms are redundant re this use. Really just an option for a short to moderate range light pseudo cruise missile. One advantage would be its very unusual launch & flight path profile, neither Air intercept nor true ballistic nor nominal cruise, which suspect would make it very difficult to Track/Engage and especially difficult to successfully intercept give ranges involved.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 18 2022 6:48 utc | 247

The BBC is reporting that 10 million Ukrainian’s are without power.
Any wonder why Z is desperate?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 18 2022 6:54 utc | 249

Interesting read by Larry Johnson

When the history is written about the current war in Ukraine, the economic fallout will be seen as one of the critical determining factors. The West grossly miscalculated that Russian sanctions would create sufficient stress and pressure among the Russian population to force Vladimir Putin out of power.
This is one of the greatest intelligence failures since the end of World War II. There are two possibilities — 1) intelligence community analysts failed to warn policymakers about the critical resources Russia controls and Russia’s ability to operate as a largely self-sufficient economy, or 2) policymakers were warned and ignored the intelligence analysis. I am not privy to the intelligence community product on this front, so I cannot tell you if it is #1 or #2.

https://sonar21.com/russia-is-winning-the-economic-war/

Posted by: Down South | Nov 18 2022 7:04 utc | 251

Congressional Amendment Opens Floodgates for War Profiteers and a Major Ground War on Russia
November 17, 2022

If the Reed/Inhofe amendment is really aimed at replenishing the Pentagon’s supplies, then why do the quantities in its wish list vastly surpass those sent to Ukraine? 
Let’s do the comparison: 
– The current star of U.S. military aid to Ukraine is Lockheed Martin’s HIMARS rocket system, the same weapon U.S. Marines used to help reduce much of Mosul, Iraq’s second-largest city, to rubble in 2017. The U.S. has only sent 38 HIMARS systems to Ukraine, but Senators Reed and Inhofe plan to “reorder” 700 of them, with 100,000 rockets, which could cost up to $4 billion.
– Another artillery weapon provided to Ukraine is the M777 155 mm howitzer. To “replace” the 142 M777s sent to Ukraine, the senators plan to order 1,000 of them, at an estimated cost of $3.7 billion, from BAE Systems.
– HIMARS launchers can also fire Lockheed Martin’s long-range (up to 190 miles) MGM-140 ATACMS missiles, which the U.S. has not sent to Ukraine. In fact the U.S. has only ever fired 560 of them, mostly at Iraq in 2003. The even longer-range “Precision Strike Missile,” formerly prohibited under the INF Treaty renounced by Trump, will start replacing the ATACMS in 2023, yet the Reed-Inhofe Amendment would buy 6,000 ATACMS, 10 times more than the U.S. has ever used, at an estimated cost of $600 million. 
– Reed and Inhofe plan to buy 20,000 Stinger anti-aircraft missiles from Raytheon. But Congress already spent $340 million for 2,800 Stingers to replace the 1,400 sent to Ukraine. Reed and Inhofe’s amendment will “re-replenish” the Pentagon’s stocks 14 times over, which could cost $2.4 billion.
– The United States has supplied Ukraine with only two Harpoon anti-ship missile systems – already a provocative escalation – but the amendment includes 1,000 Boeing Harpoon missiles (at about $1.4 billion) and 800 newer Kongsberg Naval Strike Missiles (about $1.8 billion), the Pentagon’s replacement for the Harpoon.
– The Patriot air defense system is another weapon the U.S. has not sent to Ukraine, because each system can cost a billion dollars and the basic training course for technicians to maintain and repair it takes more than a year to complete. And yet the Inhofe-Reed wish list includes 10,000 Patriot missiles, plus launchers, which could add up to $30 billion.
ATACMS, Harpoons and Stingers are all weapons the Pentagon was already phasing out, so why spend billions of dollars to buy thousands of them now? What is this really all about? Is this amendment a particularly egregious example of war profiteering by the military-industrial-Congressional complex? Or is the United States really preparing to fight a major ground war against Russia?  
Our best judgment is that both are true.
Looking at the weapons list, military analyst and retired Marine Colonel Mark Cancian noted: “This isn’t replacing what we’ve given [Ukraine]. It’s building stockpiles for a major ground war [with Russia] in the future. This is not the list you would use for China. For China we’d have a very different list.”
https://scheerpost.com/2022/11/17/congressional-amendment-opens-floodgates-for-war-profiteers-and-a-major-ground-war-on-russia/

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 18 2022 7:19 utc | 253

Down South | Nov 18 2022 7:04 utc | 256
I’m warming to Larry and his site.
The intelligence | political failure in understanding Russia can be wound back to Michael McFaul, Michael Kofman, John Bolton and especially – especially, Bill Browder.
These lead a goon squad of journo-thugs who took a figurative baseball bat to anyone who challenged their Russian “expertise”.
People like Prof Stephen Cohen (rip) and Prof John Mearsheimer were canceled and silenced. Others, not as courageous, put a wet tenured finger to the wind and knew to shut up.
The US is paying the price for its abysmal incestuous intel industry, with its decades of Atlantic Council /CFR / (think tank) prevailing agenda.
It seems diversity (of opinion) on the Russia desk really would have been a strength.
When the only allowable answer is “yessiree”…. This is the outcome.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 18 2022 7:26 utc | 255

As always, thanks to b for his commentary and barflies for their always lively, if sometimes, invidious commentary.
Re: MH-17/NS1 and 2
One of the hallmarks of fairness is the opportunity to have unbiased judges, to present evidence, and to question accusers/witnesses in an open forum. The investigation and trial regarding MH-17 failed to meet these basic requirements. Any person who is dedicated to a notion of unbiased fairness should recognize that whatever the MH-17 tribunal is suspect for those very reasons. At the same time, those same principles apply to whatever the investigations that Sweden, Germany, Norway, etc…conclude regarding responsibility for the NS 1 and 2 destruction. Failing to include Russia and other involved nations in an open investigation in which open discussion and presentation of evidence allows for a fair and honest rendering of the truth means that any conclusion regarding responsibility is suspect (though not automatically incorrect).
Re: Strike in Poland
What was so striking about this incident was the quick rush to judgment by so many when there was so much technical evidence (i.e., range of S300’s, trajectory of the missile) opposing Russian responsibility and such a lack of any motive for Russia to attack inside Poland. Conversely, there was so technical evidence supporting Ukrainian responsibility and a strong motive for Ukraine launching the missile (either to hit a Russian missile or as a false flag).
Re: NATO/US Infighting
I’m hoping that the apparent infighting within US establishment power centers (Republican vs. Democrat, Civilian vs. Military) becomes more pronounced with more open and deliberative consideration of the necessity of US support for Ukraine and the consequences thereof. Am I hopeful that this will happen or that even if this happens it will lead to a change in US policy? Not really. Am I hopeful that the apparent growing lack of support for Ukraine in European nations will lead to an eroding of support for Ukraine? The growing control of dialogue on the media and silencing of voices that do not rigidly support government/corporate storylines in both the US and Europe make it difficult for opposition to gain considerable traction. Until more well known voices in mainstream political parties and other positions of power begin to voice more strident and consistent opposition to funding Ukraine and begin pushing for negotiations with Russia that allow for compromise, then I expect escalation to continue.
In the end, I am only an objective observer that is not as objective as I would like to be sometimes.

Posted by: Objective Observer | Nov 18 2022 7:28 utc | 257

@ Nov 18 2022 7:19 utc | 258
Yawn. Ain’t gonna cut it re the war theater. Patriot is junk 0% interception rate in combat engagements., Harpoon is almost as old as me. No national truck/transport fleet to provide critical operational & strategic MSRs, to replace the annihilated Ukraine one, just fer starters.
These are not the war materiel the entire nation requires to even merely delay collapse.
PavewayIV called it correctly, the MIC Ponzi/Loot scheme just went ballistic, into the stratosphere.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 18 2022 7:37 utc | 259

Outraged | Nov 18 2022 7:27 utc | 261
Well, to be fair, the Soviet Union failed to predict the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Gorbachev and a small cabal basically just decided to “pull it” … in a semi-controlled demolition, and, down it went.
From what I understand of Putin, he thinks the SU very much needed reform and revision, but it didn’t need to be dismantled.
The forces of democracy never thought to ask the people of the Soviets if they wanted their Union abolished overnight… “democracy” was imposed on them, in one of those perverse reversals in the style of “freedom is slavery”.
You *will* have democracy no matter your preference for governance…

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 18 2022 7:46 utc | 261

Peter AU (83): The U.S. retreated when the published photographic evidence clearly showed the Polish damage was from an S300 battery; NATO in that case couldn’t pull the trigger (if it even has a gun left). As for the negotiations, the U.S. wanted the negotiations and Russia met and nothing contradicts that it responded with a polite “nyet”. Russia is on the verge of an historic victory over its arch-nemesis NATO–why would it settle for anything other than unconditional surrender of all Ukrainian forces, the elimination of the Azov movement, and the abolition of NATO?
Posted by: FHTEX | Nov 17 2022 20:24 utc | 85
I doubt there is anything clear about this so called S-300 “event”.
Have a look at my comment and others here
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/11/ukraine-open-thread-2022-201.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef02af1c8ff718200d#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef02af1c8ff718200d
That one piece of the missile could have been brought in a car, as part of a psyop setup. That would have been extremely easy since there are 2 million Ukrainians in Poland. YES, there was an explosion, BUT the BIG QUESTION is from what. We can relax, we won’t know the truth.
Oh by the way, they still haven’t shown anything about the SECOND S-300. I’m guessing it vaporized, unlike the passport in New York in 2001.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 18 2022 8:01 utc | 263

Melaleuca @ 266
You rightly point out the insidious nature of ‘democracy’ (copyright/trademarked by the USA). Ironic that democracy around the world is only rightly so when those ‘elected’ support the US. Otherwise, they are regimes or dictators or whatever. Democracy is more like a Hobson’s choice – pick the one thing offered or get nothing.
“Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose, nothin’ ain’t worth nothin’ but it’s free”. Janis Joplin

Posted by: Objective Observer | Nov 18 2022 8:04 utc | 265

It seems diversity (of opinion) on the Russia desk really would have been a strength.
When the only allowable answer is “yessiree”…. This is the outcome.
Melaleuca | Nov 18 2022 7:26 utc | 260
Diversity of opinion is considered threatening and unacceptable everywhere. Like right here. It really could have been a strength but isn’t.

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 18 2022 8:11 utc | 267

@ Melaleuca | Nov 18 2022 7:46 utc | 266
All very true.
However, our agencies (and the rest of the 14-Eyes, NATO, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Japan & Sth Korea) at the time were still in denial almost 2 months after the collapse, IIRC there was a for show Congressional Investigation into exactly what … what the hell did we get for all the Dogdamn money you incompetent twits.
On the inside at the time, viscerally remembered the hushed stunned silence re news reports.
Greatest collective intelligence failure in humanities history and the most significant repercussions globally as a consequence.
My shout at the bar ? I’m having a Guinness a raw muscle plopped in the glass, fer starters. What can I get ya ?

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 18 2022 8:17 utc | 269

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 18 2022 8:09 utc | 270
I’m coming around to the idea Ukraine did this intentionally, but still lean towards an S-300 missing a cruise missile and hitting Poland.
One thing I’ve noticed of wayward AD missiles is the warhead and body of the missile separate before they hit producing two projectiles with the body of the missile landing miles away from the warhead. Thus could initially be mistaken as two missiles.
A few years back this happened in Crete, when Syria fired an S-200 at a F-15. Both parts of the missile produced a pretty impressive explosion.
I wish I knew where Russia was firing its cruise missiles from. They have in the past used Belarus airspace, which would explain the S-300 firing north. Lviv was hit a number of times. Cruise missiles can also come in from different directions.

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 18 2022 8:32 utc | 271

SeanAU | Nov 18 2022 8:11 utc | 271
Difference of opinion is very much a hallmark of this blog/bar.
But for an opinion to be given credence, it needs to be argued from a position of some depth of knowledge and possibly sourced to something verifiable.
I concur with whoever said that when you arrived you obviously lacked a depth of knowledge of geopolitical events. I suspect you a at least two decades younger than some of regulars here. People here know stuff cause they lived it. There’s an incredible resource of life experience and expertise that drips by here.
The bar is a great place to learn… especially when barflies go at each other hard with facts and sources. Raucous,,rambunctious disagreement is a great way to hone thinking.
This current iteration of calling everyone a troll is tedious. (Even if the bar is obviously being targeted).
I respectfully suggest you read some of the non msm links that get served here.
Take a look at the menu of alternative info sources listed at Larry’s Johnson’s blog.
I saw you post you are skeptical of all sources …. fine. A reasonable perspective.
But wider, deeper reading helps in knowing who is who in the information zoo.
And, with this Ukraine thing, sources I’d found lightweight years ago have suddenly surprised me, while others I’d previously held in some regard have revealed feet of clay.
There is no one, absolute, one-stop source, and this blog never made that claim. And despite that, you seem to think it (we) have failed you.
IMHO you should stick around, maybe post less, read more, and become more widely informed.
I lurked here for years, many years, before posting. Sometimes I was a frequent visitor, sometimes MoA dropped off my menu. But lurking, I learnt heaps, and still do, from those that post opinion springing from sourced and considered material.
Now, as Ukraine has taken the SMO development… for all its shortcomings, this bar is near the best for non msm information.
Anyway. As some here say:
YMMV.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 18 2022 8:39 utc | 273

Haassaan | Nov 18 2022 8:32 utc | 275
I found a comment on Berletic’s New Atlas yt… supposedly from an Aussie in Ukraine.
His point is the missile into Poland was fired hours after Russia ceased its barrage.. which, if true, negates it being an errant over-shoot by s-300 AD.
Some now think there’s no missiles at all.. whatever the pic of the farm in Poland is… it’s not a missile.
I have no expertise about bomb craters (for which I am grateful).
I agree with Paveway from earlier…. I doubt now we’ll learn what happened.
Fog and FUD now contaminate anything that appears on the interwebs now.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/11/ukraine-open-thread-2022-201.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef02af1484b85b200c#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef02af1484b85b200c

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 18 2022 8:57 utc | 275

​🇺🇳 UN reveals the truth about executions of Russian POWs in Ukraine
❗️UN received true reports showing that Russian prisoners of war in Ukraine may have been subjected to executions — Farhan Haq stated, Deputy Spokesperson for the UN Secretary-General.
💭”Concerning prisoners detained by the Ukrainian authorities, Matilda Bogner, the head of the UN Human Rights monitoring mission in Ukraine, reported that the mission had received credible allegations of executions, as well as several cases of torture,” Haq said at a briefing.
🔔Earlier, Bogner said that she had conducted interviews with 159 prisoners of war detained by the Russian Federation and 175 prisoners of war detained by Ukraine. As a result, many cases of torture, beatings, and ill-treatment of Russian POWs in Ukraine had been documented. According to the data obtained, torture most often took place during the capture, interrogation, or internment.

https://t.me/sitreports/952

Posted by: Down South | Nov 18 2022 9:31 utc | 277

A hypothesis: The S-300 radar picked up a Russian cruise missile going past it, i.e., at a 90-degree angle north of the radar’s position. The S-300 radar has a 360-degree view, but only a 90-degree launch arc. This determined the S-300 missile’s target. Since the S-300 is a vertical launch and its angle and direction are determined after firing by the Fire Control Radar, this could explain why the S-300 was fired north at a target coming from the east or south. The only problem would be why the radar didn’t detect the cruise missile before it went past, but perhaps there is a reason we don’t know. Maybe it was just turned on shortly before the missile appeared. Anything is possible.
I don’t think we can determine anything from the direction of travel of the S-300 missile, absent other evidence.
If anyone has a correction to that possibility, post a link. I’ve tried searching for whether this is feasible, but can’t find anything definitive.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 18 2022 9:40 utc | 279

Outraged #274
“Let’s crank up the Jukebox in the corner.”
Yep, good idea. Thanks for Janis, always a favourite.
On the Polish missile topic – it worked with MH17 so why shouldn’t the crazy Ukes try it again.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 18 2022 10:13 utc | 281

…Russia has now reluctantly destroyed switch gear and transformers. Ukraine doesn’t have replacements, and there is no way Europe does either.
…
Loosing your national power infrastructure is a disaster in today’s world. Everything needs electricity.
…
Posted by: PP | Nov 17 2022 18:07 utc | 59
Posted by: PP | Nov 17 2022 18:21 utc | 60
Great posts, thank you, if the UA grid goes to the wall it’ll surely be as you say.
RF’s attack on the UA grid is systematic and precise, they will know how things go if there is a prolonged outage, RF seems to be nibbling away at the grid, avoiding things like grid control centres that would take forever to restore, in order to push UA to the negotiating table while keeping things repairable but they are still knocking out transformers and switchgear that will cost substantial time and money to restore.
I’m wondering if the plan they are employing is drawn from the archives and is somewhat mismatched with the current Ukraine conflict. (1) Taking out even the more easily replaced transformers and switchgear leaves UA crippled for months even if the shooting stops overnight, which might even be desirable in a more conventional warfare scenario but doesn’t seem appropriate right now in SMO. (2) Aiming for transformers and switchgear fits the cost profile of Kalibr and other RF cruise missiles but Gerans are orders of magnitude cheaper so it becomes economical to hit hundreds of times more targets for the same cost.
I’m wondering why RF isn’t using Gerans to repeatedly and cheaply knock out pylons and transmission cables to achieve the same goals. These are easily repaired when the shooting stops, they can be targeted in the middle of nowhere, out of range of any air defences or civilian activity.

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 18 2022 10:22 utc | 283

I would think a much more elegant solution of the Ukraine conflict would be for Poland to trigger the Nato article 5 against Ukraine attack on their territory with rockets, attack Ukraine from West and split it half half with Russia (Poland Slovakia, Hungary and Romania should get the west side). In this simple way, Nato will get an expansion to the east for half of the Ukraine territory and Russia will push their border east for the other half, putting a little bit more distance between Nato rockets and Moscow. So is a win-win situation for everybody.

Posted by: TheNegociator | Nov 18 2022 11:01 utc | 285

much more elegant solution of the Ukraine conflict would be for Poland to trigger the Nato article 5 against Ukraine attack
Have you thought of flooding your house to claim on insurance ?
Surely if you are “insured” with a reputable insurer NOTHING bad can happen to you because God is with you ?
Go claim on insurance – any insurance – and watch them engage at warp speed to help you in every way and gift wrap your assistance !!!!
When Iraq was run by Saddam The Ominipotent and the US knew he had ICBMs and Nerve Agents and ABC weapons because “Israel told us so”………….Rumsfeld wanted Turkey to allow US “Liberation Forces” to enter from their territory………..Turkey did not want to be subject to the displeasure of Saddam The Omnipotent with his ICBMs and fantastic arsenal and feared attack
Germany promptly announced it had opted out of Art 5 NATO Treaty and would not aid Turkey if attacked
Art 5 had limited validity when it was US + UK + Canada
It was never going to save Germany which was the Battlefield of Choice for WW3 in Fulda Gap with its nuclear mines and heavy artillery in Hessen.
It is why the A555 Bonn to Cologne is so straight – it was a runway for when the airfields were nuked. The German Government bunker was outside Bonn hidden under a vineyard
All NATO Expansion has done is move the Battlefield from Germany to Poland
USSR always reckoned the next attack from the West had to be fought in Ukraine which is why it built the emplacements the US redesignated against Russia since 2001

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Nov 18 2022 11:39 utc | 287

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 18 2022 10:12 utc | 287
Yes, I read that. The “barrage” might have ended, but there could still have been a missile inbound fired separately outside of the initial attack.
However, I do give credence to the notion that Ukraine could have fired this missile precisely to stimulate Poland to call an Article 4 or 5. Certainly the Ukrainians would do such a thing regardless of whether a couple Polish deaths would irritate the Poles. The Poles would go along with it if they were informed beforehand. Mercouris doesn’t believe that, but I do. States don’t give a rat’s ass about their citizens as long as their political goals are realized.
Unless more evidence comes forth, however, it’s likely we’ll never know.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 18 2022 11:49 utc | 289

💢 Ukraine’s Victory Chance is ‘Extremely Low’
– JCS Chairman Mark Milley
Many NATO countries on Thursday, led by the United States, declared to the entire world community the guilt of the Ukrainian military in the deaths of two Polish citizens, predictably not believing Zelensky’s unconvincing excuses.
👉 General Mark Milley, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, added fuel to the fire.
Milley said that the chances of a military victory for Ukraine are not yet possible, warning that Russia still has significant combat power.
The general also added that Kiev is unlikely to be able to oust the Russian army from the positions it currently occupies.
“The probability of a Ukrainian military victory is extremely low now,” Milley said.
It was also said that the Ukrainian authorities should now concentrate on peace talks. After all, Russian missile attacks do not stop, and the infrastructure of Ukraine has already been almost completely destroyed.

https://t.me/sitreports/964

Posted by: Down South | Nov 18 2022 12:08 utc | 291

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 17 2022 17:21 utc | 43
zanon, may be Natoist troll . Yet, he does come up with good point and one is mentioned in his above post. Why don’t we hear about Russian sabotage squads?

Posted by: Brother Ma | Nov 18 2022 12:23 utc | 293

I’m beginning to wonder if Surovikin is about to pull off one of the most brilliant strategies in modern war. My thinking is that he lured the Ukr army into Kherson, which he knew their western masters wanted them to take with great fanfare by removing his troops. Then he moved those troops north and opened up a new front towards Mykolaiv while at the same time taking out the rail links on the Ukr side so they can’t redeploy their Kherson troops. If he can take Mykolaiv in the next 3 weeks then he’ll be able to cross the Dneiper and bottle up the western Ukr army. Does that far fetched?

Posted by: Kevin | Nov 18 2022 12:44 utc | 295

Posted by: Kevin | Nov 18 2022 12:44 utc | 302
I’m beginning to wonder if Surovikin is about to pull off one of the most brilliant strategies in modern war. My thinking is that he lured the Ukr army into Kherson … Does that far fetched?
I’ve been predicting that at the very start of the pullout. It’s not far fetched, in fact it appears (to me) to be a natural evolution of combat strategy.
It’s inevitable that when the AFU forces in Kherson reach critical mass, RF will spring the trap and take back Kherson – either Grozny style or with some preservation of the furniture.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2022 13:04 utc | 297

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Nov 18 2022 11:44 utc | 295
From US (Papa Biden in Bali) reaction (but this can also be part of Kabuki Theatrics) it might be that either 404 went rouge with this PsyOp or did it in concert with Poland. They knew Russians would be bombing them to hell and wanted to prepare a “Russia hit Poland” provocation. They send one of their people to this small village and set a timed bomb set to go off late at night when all were at home. Leaving also some scraps of S-300 in the area which they have more than enough.
In the best case, their desire was not to kill someone. In the worst they chose to set it off while there were people there.
Once this all happened they expected a different response from the meatheads in Bali. When the news came the Bali High atmosphere sobered up and sprang to action, “What the Fu$k are they doing ?”
Now they had a problem. How to sweep this up ? How ? Simple, talk endlessly and produce nothing.
We have a new image of the “bomb site”
https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/digital-images/org/c1370170-8882-48ef-bf64-010bcc06f1a2.jpg
To my untrained eye it looks almost like a perfect circle, hence explosion was dead center. So where are all the components which surely would have hit that trailer and left huge dents in the metal chassis as well as shredding the tires to nothing ????? Well we have exactly 1 publicly displayed, but it is not certain it was photographed IN POLAND.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 18 2022 13:13 utc | 299