ZH has a posting up that contains the quote below

Immediately after news broke of the incident, President Zelensky called on NATO to take action against Russia, accusing Moscow of firing the rocket.
However, within hours it became clear that the accident, which killed two people, was actually caused by a Ukrainian air defense missile.
That didn’t stop British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, NATO and other prominent officials blaming Russia for the incident anyway, despite it clearly being Kiev’s fault.
Now the former chairman of the city council of Lublin, the seat of the region where Przewodow is located, is calling for Poland to rethink its approach to the war in light of the incident.
Having up until now been a staunch supporter of Ukraine, Jaroslaw Pakula said the missile accident showed Warsaw needed to send a blunt message to Kiev rather than telling its own citizens “fairy tales.”
“Of course, this is a Ukrainian rocket. Of course, this is a provocation on the part of the Ukrainian authorities,” Pakula posted on his Facebook page.
“The rocket could not be fired 100km in the opposite direction by mistake,” he added, asserting that the incident was an attempt to scare the EU into sending more money to Ukraine.
Demanding that Warsaw should “no longer put up with this behavior” from Ukraine, Pakula remarked, “I urge you to rethink Poland’s position [regarding] this war in the event that the red line is crossed again!”
Despite all evidence indicating the missile was fired by Ukraine, Zelensky has doubled down, denying that Kiev was involved and asking for his country to be at the forefront of an investigation.
However, after President Joe Biden swiftly said the evidence for Russia’s involvement was minimal, CNN reported that Ukrainian military officials told their American and western allies that they were responsible for the blast.
Kiev had “attempted to intercept a Russian missile” at the same location and in the same time france as when the missile strike at the Polish village of Przewowdow occurred, according to the report.
The Associated Press also had to issue a retraction, noting that it had “erroneously” reported that “Russian missiles” had killed two people in Poland, and that this was based on a claim by one single anonymous senior US intelligence official.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 17 2022 15:36 utc | 3

You can measure the level of desperation by these Ukraine actions. An underfed dog That just doesn’t want to stay on the its leash. More to come.. stay tuned.

Posted by: JustTruth | Nov 17 2022 15:43 utc | 5

Russia is known more for its famous musicians and composers than operatic stars, but methinks I hear the “fat lady” in a bear costume warming up offstage for her final, grand aria!

Posted by: FHTEX | Nov 17 2022 15:47 utc | 7

The “souring” relationship with ukraine and usa has been ongoing for couple weeks. Biden apparently lost his temper with zelensky when he asked for more weapons. The novelty may be wearing off. Boris will have to go visit to offer his shoulder to cry on.

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Nov 17 2022 15:53 utc | 9

TG | Nov 17 2022 15:53 utc | 8
Zelensky is crazy already without outside help.
And no it was not an attack by Russia.

Posted by: Lapin | Nov 17 2022 15:56 utc | 11

They put him up to it, but once it became too blatant, they got mad at him bc his crying wolf will make it harder to do next time.
imo.

Posted by: polarbear4 | Nov 17 2022 16:00 utc | 13

Thank you, b.
This is not just ‘getting’ ridiculous – it has been ridiculous ever since February when Zelensky made public his ‘need’ for a nuclear weapon. It was ridiculous when he shelled Ukraine’s own nuclear power station. It was ridiculous when he claimed all atrocities were being committed by the Russians against the civilians in Bucha and everywhere else.
But ‘ridiculous’ doesn’t cover only crazy statements by a desperate fool — it tries to wrap itself around all the western press recriminations against Russian leadership, the refusal to stand by the Minsk decisions which were agreed to before all in public. The refusal to even discuss Russia’s well formulated anxieties.
And it won’t wash. The whole sorry enterprise to defeat Russia at enormous cost to the Ukrainians and to the rest of the world. The cost in loss of trust by citizens of their leadership; the cost in loss of trust in the UN itself… I better not go on because I won’t be able to stop.
But this all has to. Stop, I mean, stop! This is not the first lie; let it be the last!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: juliania | Nov 17 2022 16:04 utc | 15

It’s not widely reported by MSM, but Ukraine is in an absolutely precarious situation as a state, as is the state of the army in the SE and Donbass. According to Lvov region authorities, it will take a year to restore the electric grid. People are starting to pack and leave the blackened and non-functional Kiev, and they aren’t stopping at Lvov. According to some reports, the border has been shut down in Poland. It’s a messy situation.
Additionally, all these strikes can’t be without having an effect on logistics for the troops in the SE and Donbass. If Russian strikes continue in the rear, eventually they will be left in the dark, with reduced trickle of supply and vulnerable to counter attack and risk of gradual and complete destruction.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 17 2022 16:10 utc | 17

Surfing on some articles in merkur.de following a link on this thread I stumbled on a picture of the underside of the hanger that was said to be hit.Also the picture showed more details from the strange pieces of timber.It is now clear to me that this hole by kinetic impact of S300 is nothing else than a silo where harvested and chopped corn (mais),november and october is harvest time for that,is stored to ferment and be used to feed the cattle in springtime.You can see long H or I profile shaped steel beams.They put them over the big hole and cross the 3,5 meter timber on top,improvising thusly a paveway for the tractor/hanger combination to drive over the silo,and release the chopped corn by hydraulically rising the frontside of the container so that all of the product falls into the silo.You can see the hydraulic system under the hanger.
Because on the field the chopped mais is blown by the harvester/threshing machine in to the container behind the tractor whose driver is keeping pace with the harvester,often there’s a bulge forming on one side in the container,and on raising it above the silo it can easily fall over,even without a missile hitting it.
https://www.merkur.de/politik/toedliche-rakete-polen-przewodow-sergej-lawrow-sprecherin-maria-sacharowa-witz-ukraine-zr-91920843.html
Posted by: willie | Nov 17 2022 15:27 utc | 391 copied from missile article

Posted by: willie | Nov 17 2022 16:15 utc | 19

No EU leader is ready for 70,000 person Czech type protests. European leaders do not want to explain Nazis terrorist stockpiling possible Ukrainian weapons and planning terror attacks who have strong links to Azov brigade. As general Milley said it is time to start talks. All Russia has to do is take the defensive behind rivers and mountains and increase man power. Ukraine will take 5 to 1 on the offensive against a 500,000 strong army. With the increase in man power the math is not in Ukraine’s favor.

Posted by: ATM | Nov 17 2022 16:22 utc | 21

From a purely clinical point of view,
One might note with fascination that the belief in falsehood, which is evidently present in the consciousness of the comedian, seems to have almost completely taken over the consciousness of the host organism.

Posted by: Josh | Nov 17 2022 16:24 utc | 23

unimperator@17… actually, you hit on a sore spot for me. Eight months in, trains still run, bridges still stand and train tracks remain mainly undamaged. Ukies roll around the front at will, moving men and material in hours or days(much faster than Russia can redeploy)…for the most part….unmolested.
Does that make sense. What kind of generals blow the shit out of the place but can’t stop trains. There are no shortage of pics of Ukie reserves and equipment flowing to the front on trains. It’s not a secret. It’s out in the open ….does that make sense in a war ….and many have been fooled.
So it turns out, economy trumps war and winning. There is an agreement at the Russian, Ukrainian, Western Oligarch level. Trains and tracks stay open to move….hmm, ore, coal, metals and other commodities, it’s a long list. What a fucking joke, thousands dead, maimed, homeless, generations of a nation destroyed and it would have been over in the first few months had rail movement been stopped.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 17 2022 16:38 utc | 25

I think the arguments over the fiasco are all part of a propaganda game and maybe even scripted in advance.
Even now, CBC says it is likely AA fire from Ukraine, but then quotes the penis pianist stating that he trusts the ukraine army and that it told him the missile is Russian. Maybe it was in a sense — made in the USSR or Russia, or components if it were long ago. All the average person hears is that Russia might have launched it and Russia bad. The average Canadian isn’t much better than the average American when it comes to geography. Most have no idea where Russia and Ukraine are on a map.
Then we have crap like this:
“Whether it was a Russian missile, whether it was Ukrainian air defense, whether the missile came from Mars, it’s Russia’s fault,” said Polish Ambassador to Canada Witold Dzielski. “This situation would not happen if it was not for the Russians.”
So rather than blame NATO / West for militarizing Ukraine, loading it up with weapons, running anti-russian propaganda non stop for years, providing military planners, mercenaries, targeting support, satellite recognizance, waging a sanctions war,
we are told that it is Russia’s fault because it exists.
Every planned bickering between actors (Trudeau was a drama teacher, Zelensky was an actor) is another excuse to demonize Russia in the daily news feeds.

Posted by: PP | Nov 17 2022 16:45 utc | 27

Zarathustra (9),
There is no souring of relations, and there is no earnest attempt at negotiations by the U.S. (which probably knows Russia will demand unconditional surrender of Ukraine and a completely new European security arrangement). As Stoltenberg and others in the U.S. have repeatedly stated, “A victory for Russia would be a defeat for NATO”. The problem is that NATO cannot afford to lose Ukraine but on the other hand has no capability of winning. We are truly at perhaps the most decisive moment in modern history. The Western powers that have dominated the world for over a half-millennium are now being decimated. Their weapons are obsolete, their troops are woke and disjointed and unprepared, their economies are short of resources and spiraling downward, and the rest of the world is increasingly becoming allied against them. Woe be to the West!

Posted by: FHTEX | Nov 17 2022 16:50 utc | 29

Russia breaks the record for the amount of missiles it launched against Ukraine a few days ago. Now I recall a few weeks ago the garbage of Zanon and Co. on a previous thread commenting how Russia has no balls, Russia has no missiles, blah blah blah, verbal diarrhea all around. Where are they now? They are always quiet when Russia is accomplishing objectives and then they come out if the wood work in force after a Ukrainian terrorist attack, or false offense. Where are you cockroaches?

Posted by: Al | Nov 17 2022 16:57 utc | 31

Russia has probably capability of launching dozens of missiles on a daily basis for the next 2 years. Thats not even taking into account Russias capability to replenish their stocks. I could see them being able to manufacture at least a similar amount on a daily basis. So that means they have capability of sustaining years and years of daily missile launches.
And thats not even taking into account possibility of purchasing even more missiles from Iran/China.
No wonder Ukraine ans West are so desperate.

Posted by: Comandante | Nov 17 2022 17:09 utc | 33

Looks like the punisher units clearing Kherson have finished there work. News of Russian war crimes starting to come in.
http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-hails-chinas-opposition-nuclear-threats-2022-11-15/
“Investigators in recaptured territory in the area uncovered 63 bodies bearing signs of torture after Russian forces left, Ukraine’s interior minister was quoted as saying on Thursday.”
29th October
https://archive.ph/3H6ra#selection-1671.0-1701.120
” I don’t think that’s going to happen. Not this time. Very high price.
— In some cases, the legal system cannot say whether a person is a traitor or not. Rukh CHESNO maintains a register of traitors, and we ask everyone to fill out the online form anonymously if there is information about traitors. What can you say about the mayor of Kherson Kolykhaev — is he a traitor or not?”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 17 2022 17:09 utc | 35

@29 Guy L’Estrange
Because Oligarchs don’t want their income streams f’d with.
Someone posted a great article about it on ‘The Saker’ (Credit: Heartlander from “The Saker’ forums)
“Attacks on Ukraine’s railroad and critical infrastructure prevent Russian oligarchs from delivering, Sivkov said.
The Ukrainian railway infrastructure has not yet been destroyed, because Russian, Ukrainian and Western oligarchs are interested in this, continuing to earn money together on business schemes that have not changed since the start of the NWO.
Konstantin Sivkov, Deputy President of the Russian Academy of Missile and Artillery Troops, stated this on ORT.
According to Sivkov, Russian titanium is delivered to the West via Ukrainian railways, on which a number of industries, including the military, critically depend.
“Under the existing sanctions that everyone must comply with, there is only one “gray” communication that connects Russia and Europe. These are Ukrainian railways.
Russia produces 87% of the world’s titanium. All this titanium used to go to the needs of the Soviet Union – submarines according to the American classification “Alpha”, according to ours – “Lira” of the 705th project – these were boats made entirely of titanium hulls. 3.5 thousand tons of titanium. The Americans were shocked, because titanium is considered to be at the level of gold in terms of value.
After the destruction of our country by the thieves’ nomenclature of the Soviet Union, titanium became “not needed” here, since there was an interest of the West, primarily the United States, to get this titanium. The whole titan went to the West.
They began to make aircraft wings from titanium, the Excalibur shells for the M777 cannon, which is used against us today, are made from our titanium. If titanium stops deliveries now, then all this will stop. This is worse than gas, because the construction of the latest combat aircraft depends on titanium, among other things.
Therefore, our oligarchy, the Ukrainian oligarchy and the West are objectively interested in ensuring that this railway communication runs smoothly,” Sivkov said.
The main (90%) volume of Western military and material assistance to the Kyiv regime, which lost over 70% of the weapons available on February 24, comes by rail from western Ukraine (Lviv), bordering Poland and Slovakia.
Vulnerabilities – three bridge crossings within the range of tactical missiles and airborne forces, which can be destroyed by three pinpoint strikes at known coordinates. In this case, communications that support the viability and military stability of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the regime as a whole will be destroyed with the prospect of restoration at least a month or two.
Alternative trucking by road does not compensate for the logistical disaster. However, this does not happen, just as many enterprises of the basic economic and defense structure controlled by Kyiv avoid missile and bomb raids.
Export goods and products manufactured at the enterprises of Ukrainian oligarchs and their Russian partners are also exported along the mentioned railway routes in the opposite direction, to the west. After all, after the blockade of air communications, maritime transport and international motor transport, the railway, which was removed from the limits of Western sanctions, remained the only logistical export-import communicator.
Rear Admiral John Kirby, a spokesman for the Pentagon, said that, contrary to the logic of hostilities, US intelligence did not record a single attempt by the Russian Armed Forces and the LDNR by any means to block the flow of American and European weapons coming to the disposal of the front-line units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from late February to mid-April.
Probably, this explains the “indistinct” position of the majority of the Russian oligarchy and many of the most influential figures in the Russian Forbes list in relation to the US and EU hybrid aggression against Russia, including its most sensitive component – the fighting in Ukraine, and this also explains the strange course of the special operation.
The country must know its “heroes”…”

Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Nov 17 2022 17:15 utc | 37

I should also point out that the original article I posted above (@35) was originally from Russell ‘Texas’ Bentley’s telegram.
https://t.me/vdv_union

Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Nov 17 2022 17:18 utc | 39

@ Bob Jenkins | Nov 17 2022 17:15 utc | 35
excellent info and angle – and i hadn’t seen it before.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Nov 17 2022 17:20 utc | 41

Terror, genocide unleashed against Russian speakers in Kherson — Civic Chamber

Ukraine’s troops have unleashed “overt terror and genocide” against those who speak Russian in Kherson, a member of Russia’s Civic Chamber, freelance adviser to the acting governor of the Kherson region, Alexander Malkevich told TASS on Thursday.

https://tass.com/society/1538447
Why are Russia never keeping any sabotage units behind enemy lines taking care of these terrorists? Always, ALWAYS, 1 step behind.

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 17 2022 17:21 utc | 43

Boomheist @ 18
You are right on the money in that post. Pipes don’t need to freeze, pretty simple to drain them when time comes. Many will just not be on top of that. Enough decades of good plumbing and everyone forgets. There will be plenty of frozen pipes.
I’m guessing there will be a noticeable amount of freezing people in western Europe as well. Even if all are lucky and there is basically enough to get by there will be end of supply chain shortages locally. Here in US the diesel shortage is talked about, if you read MSM or watch toob it is a not happening, not serious. What is happening in many localities is the truck stop runs out and the trucks park 4 hours or 48 hours waiting for the tanker truck. Since this is absolutely verboten to discuss out loud we have no idea how bad it is or what prognosis is. Of course with no prognosis openly discussed it becomes hard to even make plans for basic distribution. Trucker who is 12 hours off schedule is pissed off. Old people and babies who shiver in a frosty flat even a night or two, that is a real problem. Facing the prospect of more and more cold will be disheartening. Nothing will be done. Nothing will get done.
One thing that will happen is the able bodied will become super valuable. For basics like carrying water. The effete and obese will face major attitude adjustment. Immigrant populations who remember what work is will be favored. I think that will not include Ukrainian immigrants in Europe.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 17 2022 17:25 utc | 45

James (27): Yes, the Dutch were waiting for two years to reveal the results of their MH-17 show trial, but if you read Helmer’s 2020 book–“The Lie That Shot Down MH-17”–the outcome was a foregone conclusion. Helmer actually doubts whether the Buk missile from whatever source brought down MH-17 but rather points more to the Ukrainian fighter suspiciously flying within range of MH-17. The most interesting thing about the book was its discussion of the proposed post-shoot-down intervention of almost 10K Dutch and Aussie troops to help defeat the Donetsk and Luhansk republics–which was cancelled at the last-minute. In the end, the Dutch verdict is merely one more futile NATO psyop, totally mismatched against Russia’s vastly superior missile and artillery technology.

Posted by: FHTEX | Nov 17 2022 17:27 utc | 47

Bemildred | Nov 17 2022 17:17 utc | 36
For any Americans on this board, it is equivalent to winter in Nebraska. Very cold, intermittent snow and ice, no hills or mountains to break up the cold fronts. I would imagine the refugee crisis has already commenced and is just not being reported.

Posted by: Tangerine | Nov 17 2022 17:28 utc | 49

@ FHTEX | Nov 17 2022 17:27 utc | 45
i recall helmer doing a lot of coverage on this topic, but i haven’t read his book.. thanks for sharing that.. i just shared on the open thread a post which i will share here with you –
“In December 2021, the Dutch prosecutor’s office issued an indictment, demanding that all four defendants be sentenced to life imprisonment “for the destruction of an aircraft as part of an organized group, which led to the death of 298 people, and the murder of passengers on board.”
Ukraine refused to provide data from its radars, and the United States did not provide the investigation with satellite images, which, as they claim, show the moment of the rocket launch. The line of state prosecution is based on the testimony of exclusively anonymous witnesses. We do not expect anything “good” from the Dutch court. To objectively investigate a plane crash is not for you to do cheese.”
off same channel.. last paragraph is especially relevant and will not be broadcast in the western msm.. ukraine had a veto on everything that was released.. what kind of investigation gives one of the suspects a veto over what is released? this i learned from the book i was discussing yesterday – flight mh 17, ukraine and the new cold war by kees van der pijl..

Posted by: james | Nov 17 2022 17:31 utc | 51

Where are pictures of the “missiles”?
It STILL looks to me like something exploded below the grain wagon while it was unloading.
How does a missile fall below the wagon and result in that kind of crater?
It was grain dust. Look at the corn scattered all over the place
There was no missile. The photo’s I’ve seen of missile parts are meaningless because they aren’t included in the photo of the crater.
How does such a small warhead blow up a crater this deep?

Posted by: Fiji Refugee | Nov 17 2022 17:43 utc | 53

It’s going to be a time of severe and difficult attitude adjustment in the West…
Posted by: Boomheist | Nov 17 2022 16:10 utc | 18
Here’s hoping for a return to realpolitik.
But given that the political landscape is populated with ambitious incompetents.
It’s a very big ask.
Name one vaguely competent political operator in Europe bar Orban.
Meloni isn’t at the job long enough to assess.

Posted by: jpc | Nov 17 2022 17:49 utc | 55

Mr Pakula = Mr Bean.

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 17 2022 18:00 utc | 57

In a climate with cold winters, loosing power for extended times causes enormous property damage. While outdoor sprinkler lines are air filled or protected somehow, interior lines are often full of water. If they freeze, the pipes burst.
If water is still being pumped, then movement in the lines will keep it from freezing. If the water stops – e.g. the central water plants aren’t pumping, then service entrances will freeze and valves will be broken. I assume most old pipes are copper – not modern PEX.
High rise buildings without pumped water are ugly. Are you going to walk chamber pots / buckets up and down the stairs or just throw the mess out a window? Are you going to harvest yellow snow from the streets and boil it? Can you light a fire in an apartment building? Can you get propane at all? Presumably you are also unemployed and your money is almost worthless.
In the 1950s, there were many places in rural north America that were still using community diesel generators, outhouses, kerosene lamps, chamber pots at night, wood stoves for cooking, gravity fed wells. They also bought the winter vegetables in the Fall and stored them in a cool area. Most of that generation, a generation that lived through the great depression, is gone now – and I think the younger crowed will just mass migrate, especially those in big cities. Modern youth is lost without a cell phone and internet access. I can’t imagine them crapping in pots and sliding it under the bed until morning.
Rural dwellers will adapt and support each other — although even that will be difficult if all the able bodied men have been rounded up for cannon fodder. Dense cities will be an absolute nightmare without water, heat and electricity.
What a mess. I fully expect the migration of millions of desperate people.
I have been in hurricane disasters where we were told that every day, that power would be back soon. A week went by and we resented the lies — deep freezes from food were wasted. If we told it was going to be at least a week, there could have been huge community BBQs. If we hand been told months or years without power and that we might be conscripted and/or have to battle street gangs — we’d be hitting the road like the “walking dead” series.
I think that once people realize that electricity will be gone for months or even years in some area, they will set their sights on migration.

Posted by: PP | Nov 17 2022 18:07 utc | 59

FYI, per Pepe Escobar, Blackstone and Vanguard have already bought up millions of acres of Ukrainian land, and Zelensky has spoken of creating a 2nd Israel. They want as many Slavs as possible to be killed off before they (in their own minds) take over the area.

Posted by: Greg | Nov 17 2022 18:23 utc | 61

One must ask if Russia care at all that Ukraine attack them and kill civilians because this is not incompetence but ignorance by now:

Today, the Armed Forces of Ukraine fired from the hail in Shebekino … no, not a substation, not a power plant, and not even an ammunition depot – but a residential sector. Several houses were destroyed. An 11-year-old girl was seriously injured.

https://t.me/intelslava/41287

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 17 2022 18:28 utc | 63

Yes, it looks like we are at a turning point. It is now clear that Russia cannot afford to lose and will not lose. But can Russia win decisively? Russia needs the West to balance China, no other region can play that role. If the West is de-fanged, China will have a very strong position vis a vis Russia. It’s much the same situation of vulnerability Russia is fighting to avoid in Ukraine, only in the East. So an arrangement must be made with the West, or China inherits the world by default.

Posted by: Biochar | Nov 17 2022 18:33 utc | 65

Tell Cubans or Chinese that Covid was a hoax, or lots of others around the world.
No, Covid was no hoax, but the US government and its neoliberal handlers and ideologues is.
Posted by: Tedder | Nov 17 2022 17:18 utc | 38

He did not say “hoax” he said “racket”. Both Canada and the EU ordered over 10 doses of inoculation (by now clearly not a vaccine) per person. Any rational person would conclude that corruption was involved in that decision.
If you wish to bring up Cuba and China, please reflect on Central Africa, which essentially did nothing and had the same result in terms of infection and death rates.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Nov 17 2022 18:34 utc | 67

One simple question born out of simple common sense: is it imagineable that Russia would start a war on Poland launching outdated air defense missiles instead of all their Kalibers, Iskanders, etc.?

Posted by: Hotzenplotz | Nov 17 2022 18:40 utc | 69

Biden just signed another $37.7 billion in funds “for Ukraine”. Total Ukraine related spending is about $100 billion. It is fair to assume there is also a black budget of similar size. The NATO war in Ukraine will continue as long as the US is able and willing to spend that kind of money.
In 1956, the British withdrew from Egypt because the US informed the British that the US would pull the rug out from under the British Pound if the UK did not behave. Todays’ equivalent would be China and other creditor nations informing the US they will no longer accept dollars in trade, unless the US behaves.

Posted by: Passerby | Nov 17 2022 18:57 utc | 71

A very interesting interview with Kent Ryan “Boneface” McLellan, American neo-Nazi from the Azov Battalion:
https://telegra.ph/INTERVIEW-WITH-BONEFACE—US-NEO-NAZI-EX-MEMBER-OF-AZOV-BATTALION-11-12
Some excerpts:

There is a ton of liberal white washing when it comes to Fascists in Ukraine: 
“Nazis don’t exist’ “Azov battalion and Azov regiment are different “ , “They took all the Nazis out of Azov”.
We know all these to be false, and to a guy who knew and been there; I see it has pure disrespect to tarnish the legacy of a lot of those who died.
Clearly they don’t know what to think of it. I speak out against the white washing of Nationalists by the media. Despite the fact they blasted us for years and even the Ukrainians tried to force fully uproot Azov at one point.
I use Twitter to mainly troll the (western) left, as they believe Ukraine military isn’t full of nationalist ideals.

I dedicate this to our full-time trolls:

American meddling in Ukraine has caused the Russian invasion.
(…) I would like to see Russia just go home, and while the government in Kiev is frail another (Maidan) revolution. 
I don’t see Russia as the victim here. But I do see Russia as provoked.

Posted by: Leuk | Nov 17 2022 19:11 utc | 73

@fiji refugee #53
There is pictures of other destruction on a couple different youtube vids, It could just be random stock footage but there was a lot of large chunks of reinforced concrete.
Zelensky seems determined to go there and see for himself. Perhaps his smuggling ring was destroyed.
The US and Russia being on the same page and pals for a few minutes raises flags. The US having the info to clear Russia is as strange as it gets.
It might have been western air defense and they don’t want people to know they are junk.
The CIA might have given the Russians a list of targets because Zelensky is off script
Or Nato is messing with Ukraine because they need to remind Zelensky who’s in charge.
The Russians might have done it just to show the west they will escalate.
Too bad we will never know. Something is fishy with the way the US decided to handle things.

Posted by: OohCanada | Nov 17 2022 19:22 utc | 75

Many commenters here are definitely on the spectrum. High intelligence combined with a tendency to fixate on certain narrow aspects.
But, never fear, as I am here to occasionally help shift focus back to the big picture. Ok, let’s review:
– Russia won when the government failed to collapse. It never lost public support, therefore it continued to be able to maintain soveirgn authority and unified protection over territorial integrity.
I’m not sure how close they even came, or whether it was ever even an issue. Regardless, once the Russian people became resigned to their fate that it was their generation once more being called to face the west, it was all over.
Zato of course always understood this. If fully mobilized, a multi million person army conducting a land war in their own backyard motivated by existentional survival? Yeah right, good luck with that.
Which leads to point two, that with a large army sitting on Polands border, russia can completely secure Ukraine as a vassal ally (think US – German or Japan relationship).
That means that beyond just political leaders, the entire legal framework can include their own mutual aid (defense) agreements that would treat any Ukraine encroachment as an attack on the entire alliance.
All of this of course is just the beginning to really putting the resource screws to the west, with the primary target being the $US dollar standard itself.
Anyway, if you keep the big picture in mind, the tactical details fall right into place.

Posted by: B9k9 | Nov 17 2022 19:26 utc | 77

Biochar@65
You are assuming that ‘multipolarity’ is not China’s objective but a disguise on its own aim to establish its own unipolarity.
Obviously you believe that it is within the nature of states to wish for hegemony. But of this there is no evidence. And in China’s long history there is a mountain of evidence to suggest otherwise.
Russia has no fear of China, they have mutual interests. It would be suicidal for either to attack or attempt to subvert the other.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 17 2022 19:32 utc | 79

OohCanada | Nov 17 2022 19:22 utc | 75
you are overthinking things. a house has many mansions and no one knows who struck john, but the russians do not concern themselves with the games of the west. That is why they do not answer the phone.

Posted by: Cynthia | Nov 17 2022 19:40 utc | 81

“Ukrainian security forces [силовики] have executed in Kherson 39 pro-russian activists
and sent away 74” From RIA-Novosti.
https://ria.ru/20221117/kherson-1832257221.html .
[I copied a picture of The Scream, only commentary adequate, but it wouldn’t paste here.]

Posted by: Seward | Nov 17 2022 19:57 utc | 83

Here’s a random thought: maybe it really was a Russian missile, but the western elites just aren’t ready for that level of escalation (yet) so they lied about it. That would surely drive Zelensky crazy, yes?
Posted by: TG | Nov 17 2022 15:53 utc | 8
I got to say that if you were a troll, you are a damn good one. But I think not. I had, and I think everyone commenting on MoA probably had the same thought. If it were true (and I do not think it is) than it would say a lot about what Biden and the State Department are up too. There are a lot of rumors that the US and the EU are running out of arms and funds to give to Ukraine while the world economy is going into recession. The Russian winter offensive will happen very soon, and Zelensky is sitting on the pot with no paper to wipe his ass. His lies (real or otherwise) would be a good excuse to throw him under the bus.
As it stands, the S-300 anti-missile rockets are old and unreliable. And that is probably the end of the story.

Posted by: Ed Nelson | Nov 17 2022 20:11 utc | 85

“We can hope that the media will now be more careful when they report of all the other lies Zelensky and his team are uttering on a daily base.”
No chance.
I can only quote what my nephew said to me once: “You’re Funny”.

Posted by: ltexpat | Nov 17 2022 20:28 utc | 87

Bemildred | Nov 17 2022 17:17 utc | 36
For any Americans on this board, it is equivalent to winter in Nebraska. Very cold, intermittent snow and ice, no hills or mountains to break up the cold fronts. I would imagine the refugee crisis has already commenced and is just not being reported.
Posted by: Tangerine | Nov 17 2022 17:28 utc | 49
Yep, my brother (dairyman) used to live in Iowa, he told some stories.
And I have some experience of my own, the “lake effect” in upstate NY.
Agree with your conclusion, it is already happening, and we are in the early stages, and as I was saying, they have not really pulled the plug yet, and things could still be done. Shutting down the trains would be pulling the plug.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 17 2022 20:36 utc | 89

Some thoughts:
Z erratic behavior:
It appears he is responding to several masters, the CIA, the State Dept, the DoD, all giving him instructions, some contradicting others? And of course the Azov will kill him if he steps out of line.
Polish FF:
I too think it was a grain explosion as others have noted, not any sort of missile from anyone. Grain explosions can be pretty horrific and the photos support that. As it was not a sanctioned FF, the West is not willing to buy into it. If it was theirs they would have had dead and dying children, a dead pregnant woman, ideally blonde photos ready to go. No photos, not a sanctioned FF.
Russia’s Plan:
I think at this point it is to drain the NATO resources as dry as possible, to launch a takeover of all of Ukraine, schedule and run elections, new constitution, etc. Keeping Ukraine as a protectorate. No other solution is possible at this point. No deal can be trusted, no Western word has any value so take over it is.
Ukraine land deals:
Z changed the Ukraine constitution to allow Ukraine land to be sold to foreigners. Monsanto and other GMOs are already there, it was their grain that was shipped out, maybe some grain was Ukraine owned, but primarily it was theirs. My guess is Russia will void all of those land deals and ideally restore the organic nature of the lands they trashed. Revenge!
Currency wars:
This war will run for at least a year or two more, for Russia needs the euro to collapse, as many of the govts of the EU as possible to collapse and new leadership that is somewhat sane to rise. If Italy decides to leave the EU and it may, give it time, the rest of the EU will shatter IMO. As for the dollar, I see it reduced to one of many, and if the Biden admin goes with the virtual currency strategy, the dollar will disappear.
Summary:
I see no good news for the people of the West for years, and for the sun to shine on the East for the foreseeable future.

Posted by: Bonami | Nov 17 2022 20:53 utc | 91

@ OohCanada 75
I have been looking all over for photos or videos
Yes, I’ve seen the concrete supposedly spread all over the place. There’s nothing to convince me that it is anywhere close to the crater, but it hardly matters. The concrete wall on the close side of the crater would be what is spread all over. How in the world did the missile fly into that teeny-tiny hole get past the huge timbers and the steel girders and blow up underneath the grain wagon?
There are 2 different sized warheads on the S-300. ~350lbs of explosive or ~50lbs of explosive. Neither one of those could create a crater deep enough to match the photos I’ve seen.
Maybe the ~350lb warhead if the missile skipped across the ground and landed inside the grain chute. LOL
A grain dust explosion can rip out concrete.
I’m not an explosive expert, but I’ve seen craters created by 500lb bombs. They don’t look at all like this.
In any case, an S300 isn’t built to penetrate the ground.
There are dozens of grain explosions on youTube. Here’s a video explaining how dangerous this dust can be.
There is a photo that purports to show S-300 parts lying on the ground next to the crater, but the ground they are lying on doesn’t look at all like the grassless dirt surrounding the crater.

Posted by: Fiji Refugee | Nov 17 2022 21:00 utc | 93

Perimetr | Nov 17 2022 18:33 utc | 66
Zelensky disco dancing.
Source is the twitter james posted. Embedded in the clip is cited another source.
Is it Ze?
He looks ridiculous. So his acolytes are going screech like banshees to say it’s not.
I think it is. There is some debate about the hairline. But for me the height is a tell. Zelensky is short in stature and the RPG he’s dancing with provides scale.
Ze, as we know, was/is an “entertainer”. He danced often on stage. This guy with the RPG has the same moves as a younger Ze.
Obviously I wasn’t there when it was filmed, so can’t 1000% assert its authenticity.
I think 80/20 it’s him. Or 90/10.
The other clip I posted is definitely him… he himself uploaded it. I actually think that it is more damning, as he is quite clearly intoxicated, probably from drugs rather than alcohol.
That the Ze at the disco clip is finding its way to twitter and telegram now is, I believe, part of the slow drip towards his demise.
He’s been so deified, he’s actually become a danger to his handlers… clips like this plant seeds of doubt about him…. So he can be destroyed and sent to the scrap heap later.
And I’m fine with that.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 17 2022 21:03 utc | 95

“It seems to me that the greatest PsyOps in history was the whole covid racket.”
Guy L’Estrange | Nov 17 2022 16:51 utc | 29
Tedder | Nov 17 2022 17:18 utc | 40
“I get very tired of short-sighted people making silly claims because of how the collective West mishandled the pandemic. Tell Cubans or Chinese that Covid was a hoax, or lots of others around the world.
What happened in the US was unconscionable and criminally incompetent. The neoliberal system of management itself holds the blame …”
$ $ $ $ $
Since the US government is purchased by the donar class, ie effectively privatized, and operates within a system of privatized money creation, credit & banking (which seeds and grows privatized monopolies sold to the highest bidder), the failure of the neoliberal US west to contain and eliminate the gof viral pandemic at the outset when it was feasible, blocking it from evolving into successive variants that are always inevitably a few evasive steps ahead of targeted treatments and vaccines (which are all privatized monopoly markets), means that this bad governance (from POV of the public), the neoliberal governance, has been a huge success! And if the treatments themselves cause harm, more success! $$$
GDP goes up even when people get sick, sometimes remain sick and die early because so-called health care is big business.
Government obligations to the publc goes down as the old and infirm die early. No further need for social security and healthcare coverage for those so-called useless-eater losers.
Pesky persnickety sticklers for evidence-based truths have been marginalized and silenced as a thousand attention-diverting myths and conspiracy theories have bloomed.
With little to no liability obligations, no observable accountability and no perceived responsibility, it is a monopolist’s dream world come temporarily true. $$$$.
Of course this is an example everyone everywhere in the world will want to follow especially if they have socialized medicine ! s/
Now, what exactly is the psy-op in this train of events?

Posted by: suzan | Nov 17 2022 21:05 utc | 97

Neofeudalfuture | Nov 17 2022 15:45 utc | 6
You’re a decade too late.
Ukraine’s best agricultural land and its industries were sold under Poroshenko.
Ukrainian chernozems have been bagged and sold since.
Not to say further exploitation won’t continue.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 17 2022 21:10 utc | 99