Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 12, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-196

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on November 12, 2022 at 17:27 UTC | Permalink

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Viktor Kovalenko
Nov 11/ Diplomatic negotiations to end the war in #Ukraine are currently impossible, said German Chancellor Olaf Scholz on RND.
“With this deadly war, Putin nullified all that was done before in terms of negotiations," said Scholz.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MrKovalenko
https://www.rnd.de/politik/olaf-scholz-kanzler-aeussert-sich-bei-live-talk-ueber-klimaproteste-ukraine-krieg-und-us-midterms-ST3R5YKMAVEUJDVGSTJPTYBCSU.html

Zelensky:
Had a phone call with Chancellor @OlafScholz Informed about the course of hostilities, new RF's strikes on civilians. Thanked for Germany great contribution to the defense of our sky & borders.
Supported the continuation of the grain initiative and agreed positions on the eve of #G20
https://mobile.twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1591099457369956352
…> Francesca: (nobody). I speak in the name of all Americans, we should reduce our consumption and give more money and resources to Ukraine.
True American patriots are ready to give up their comfort to help Ukraine.

Zelensky: I had a phone call with @JustinTrudeau Thanked for the large-scale defense support for Ukraine. We discussed the possibilities of its expansion. We also agreed on the importance of continuing the "grain deal".
I count on Canada’s support for Ukrainian initiatives in #G20 and #UN.

~~~~
In there middle of the night….the most important task was to demolish a statue….. to Pushkin.
Poor poet, punished even in death.
Pathetic.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MrKovalenko/status/1591130688115572736?cxt=HHwWgIDQhci76pQsAAAA

Isn’t Pushkin of the deeply melanin persuasion?
How does his being “cancelled” in this most ignoble way fit with the “woke”.
Should black eternal lives matter?

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 12 2022 17:35 utc | 1

A critique on Andrew Korybko's substack

https://korybko.substack.com/p/20-constructive-critiques-about-russias

Some of his Key Points
2. Russia Learned Too Late That The West Doesn’t Negotiate In Good Faith
3. Diplomatic Discretion Left The Armed Forces & Citizenry Psychologically Unprepared For Conflict
5. Russia Never Had The Strategic Initiative In The Ukrainian Conflict
9. Uncoordinated Military Objectives Among Commanders Complicated The Operation
10. The Politically Driven Rules Of Engagement Hamstrung The Campaign’s Military Effectiveness
14. Faulty Intelligence And Wishful Thinking Catalyzed A Chain Reaction Of Complications For Russia
16. Hard-Fought On-The-Ground Gains Were Taken For Granted & Thus Improperly Defended
18. The Public Wasn’t Preconditioned To Expect The Conflict’s Evolution Into A Defensive One
20. The Military End Game Remains Elusive & Russia Is Increasingly Struggling To Shape Events

Posted by: Aslangeo | Nov 12 2022 17:41 utc | 2

i want to thank some of the posters from the previous thread... igor, outraged, down south, peter au, bevin, karlof1, pretzel attack and a number of regulars too.. Per Terram | Nov 12 2022 7:28 utc | 439 - someone i have never seen post before and etc. etc... there is a lot of worthwhile commentary to which i am very thankful for..

Posted by: james | Nov 12 2022 17:46 utc | 3

when Medvedev mentions "armed fanatics", is he lying?

of course not. everywhere the West goes, they cultivate death squads. everywhere. to say that Russia or China do likewise is utter bullshit.

they'll be knocking on Zanon's door, too. sooner or later. they knocked on Nancy Pelosi's door the other day, the forces she's spent every breath of her career supporting.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Nov 12 2022 17:49 utc | 4

'Reality reminder' (tm)

Russia already won by failing to collapse. It will continue to win as long as the government retains the support of the people and authority to protect and ensure its territorial integrity.

Russia cannot be physically defeated through force of arms. Rather, like the USA itself, it's people must willingly acquiesce to occupation, dismemberment and resource plunder.

Additional terms of peace will require it's people to willingly accept child mutilation, pedophilia and complete debasement and abandonment of its culture and history.

Think any if this is going to happen?

Now, as for the west, resource limitations, population dynamics and expenditures to maintain both the mic and welfare state are having an obvious impact on currency debasement.

Think any of the empires satellites can maintain the status quo indefinitely?

This situation isn't a short war, and it's not really about Ukraine either. This is rome vs carthage.

Posted by: B9k9 | Nov 12 2022 17:54 utc | 5

Stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Thanks b, hopefully this will silence quite a few commentators here from spreading ad hominem in every post.
It would be great to actually enforce this by IP banning such users if they do not respect the rules though etc.

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 12 2022 18:01 utc | 6

Zanon | Nov 12 2022 18:01 utc | 6
they'll be knocking on Zanon's door, too. sooner or later.

what a whiny little bitch you are.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Nov 12 2022 18:04 utc | 7

Here's the LAPD "Rampart" scandal, as discussed by Tom Secker at Spy Culture. All public treatments of this disaster efface the role of US foreign policy in flooding Los Angeles with drugs, guns and gangsters. Most public treatments severely downplay or outright deny how widespread the state terrorism of the LAPD is. Thus, fiction like "The Shield," because the public voice is nothing but denial, deception and smokescreens. For a glimpse into the nightmare, Tom Secker provides a youtube clip of interviews about the making of "The Shield," which is worth listening to, but even then, the severity and brutality of the LAPD is downplayed. and no foreign policy.

in case you want a taste of what is coming to Europe et ubique, if the US can get away with ot. the death squads are already all over the US police state. Thanks Nancy Pelosi for doing your fucking part!

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Nov 12 2022 18:08 utc | 8

" A critique on Andrew Korybko's substack

https://korybko.substack.com/p/20-constructive-critiques-about-russias

Some of his Key Points
2. Russia Learned Too Late That The West Doesn’t Negotiate In Good Faith


Posted by: Aslangeo | Nov 12 2022 17:41 utc | 2 "


Actually, it looks like the Kremlin hasnt learned anything and keeps repeating the same mistakes. Whats the definition of insanity again ?


" American and Russian diplomats will meet to discuss the New START nuclear arms reduction treaty “in the near future,” US State Department spokesman Ned Price told reporters on Tuesday. "

https://www.rt.com/news/566181-russia-us-new-start-nuclear/

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Nov 12 2022 18:11 utc | 9

@ Deplorable Commissar | Nov 12 2022 18:11 utc | 9

some of us would argue this is exactly the situation with regard to the usa... they haven't learned anything and continue to repeat the same mistakes... trying to take over the ukraine for the forces of dumbocracy and freedumb have succeeded in what exactly? possible ww3? shit ton of payola for the military, banking and energy sector? i guess that is considered a win for these folks... the people of ukraine or russia matter not, but lets entertain the idea that ''russia is losing'', lolol....

as i said in the previous thread.. these open ukraine threads are literally the comedy channel... for anyone to entertain the bullshit that gets said here, is indeed a real laugh! i am back to silence mode..

Posted by: james | Nov 12 2022 18:16 utc | 10

So Russia was waiting,in the middle of war, about the result of US mid term election hoping for Biden's party mauling which did not materialise .reminds me of presideng obama telling Medvedev to convey to Mr.Putin go wait for anerican election ,as if anythjng was going to change as if Russia is a 3rd world country waiting for anerican election result .but then Russia behaces like a 3rd world weakling saying things which has no sense of Honour.That is why west treats Russuans as 3rd worlders.

In the middle if war, russia is waiting for ice and snow go fall to hurt western heating caoability and to redtart compaign again.
But winter has been very very mild.
Those who excuse all mistakes (incompetencies)of Russia as 5th level chess move ,are real enmies of Russia. True freinds say truth(and how to negotiate the difficultues) rather than dreamt up false hope.
Once war starts you have to win and win rapidly before enemy has time to regroup. You never negotiate untill you have won convincingly.

When you pin your hopes on the success of Republican thugs taking both houses of Democratic thugs to prevent Western guns from ending up on the front because you're incompetent to do it yourself;
- When you hope the winter will be harsh to freeze your enemies that you can't destroy, but you're not even able to increase the damage on the electrical grid that supplies their heaters, nor cut the gas traffic to fill their depots just because you don't have the balls to say "Enough!";
Well, you are already morally defeated regardless of how much weaponry you have...and can only pray that General Winter is not as incompetent as those of Stavka.

NATO can see clearly that Russian leadership lacks will. You do not fight a war and beg everyday "please negotiate with us". You force them to negotiate. The other side has already said a defeat for Ukraine will be a disaster (ie the end) for NATO. But Russia seems to dream on that they will be brothers again.

The only way out for Russia was to do an overwhelming strike and force the regime to surrender, and place a friendly regime in place.


Posted by: Sam | Nov 12 2022 18:25 utc | 11

Repost from another thread - German minor party leader (Sarah Wagenknecht of Die Linke ) gives a 25 minute presentation on US - German economic relations. It’s a supremely compelling presentation with a mainstream tone.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D3oUe8usIkU

In German, use the subtitle feature for own language.

Posted by: Exile | Nov 12 2022 18:35 utc | 12

the western msm told us that russia wanted team red to win, so obviously the western msm is not full of shit and everything they say is legit, lolol... keep the jokes coming... sorry - i lied.. i am posting again...

Posted by: james | Nov 12 2022 18:35 utc | 13

Austrian humor: The difference between 1942 and 2022 is that the Germans don't have to go all the way to Stalingrad to freeze.😆

Eastern European humor: It's better for the Russians to shut off the gas than for the Germans to let it go.🤭

Slovak humor: Dežo wakes up in the winter and the apartment is very warm. He grabs the radiator - it's hot. He opens the water tap - the hot water comes out. He turns on the gas - the gas flows. An upset Dežo shouts: "Aranka, get up! The communists are back!”😅

Czech humor: A husband brings a hare he caught outside to his wife's kitchen and gloating greedily he shouts: "Prepare it into cream!" Wife: "There's no gas." He: "So bake it in the oven!" She: "There's no electricity either." The husband gets angry and throws the eared one back behind the fence. The hare stirs and shouts: "Glory to Ukraine!"😆

Thirty years ago we asked how to catch up with the standard of living of the West, and today we ask how to return to the standard of living of thirty years ago.

I don't understand why our friends sell us gas and oil more expensive than our enemies.

The prices of flour and breadcrumbs have risen so high that manufacturers are thinking of putting meat in sausages again.

Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Nov 12 2022 18:35 utc | 14

" i guess that is considered a win for these folks... the people of ukraine or russia matter not, but lets entertain the idea that ''russia is losing'', lolol....

as i said in the previous thread.. these open ukraine threads are literally the comedy channel... for anyone to entertain the bullshit that gets said here, is indeed a real laugh! i am back to silence mode..

Posted by: james | Nov 12 2022 18:16 utc | 10 "

What are you droning on about ? My post was meant to illustrate the absolute absurdity of , on one hand Russia whining about how the US is agreement incapable, while at the same time discussing new agreements with it. Not to mention, continuing to supply resources to same countries that are openly calling for Russia's dismemberment and openly supplying personnel and material to achieve that goal. Russia even still allows foreign press and social media to operate in Russia. This is true insanity as those information streams are subverting Russian minds, especially the youth, during a time of war.

Russia also still engages with the UN and other organizations that are clearly controlled by the US and almost always side against Russia at every opportunity. Not to mention Russia's constant babble about the " rule of law ". My question would be what " rule of law. " ? Name me one " rule of law " that was ever successfully used against the US or Israel. I could go on, but everyone here knows about these things already.

Like I stated before, the US is far more cautious and deferential with North Korea then they are with Russia which absolutely makes no logical sense. Actually many things about this " war " make no logical sense.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Nov 12 2022 18:49 utc | 15

I always suspected that Ukie destined $$ was going into the US share markets,
Now this....
"At this early hour, it __appears__ that tens-of-billions in American “Military Aid” to Ukraine, which was allegedly to be used to fight Russia, was cash that Ukraine DID NOT use to fight Russia, but instead invested into FTX!

And, as you might guess from the Bankruptcy filing . . . . it now seems that all the money . . . is gone.

Yes, you read that correctly: Instead of using US Military Aid to fight Russia, Ukraine “invested” part or all of it, into FTX, and right now, it looks like all the money is gone.

Democrat Donations

Also at this early hour, it now also __appears__ that the Chief of FTX, Sam Blankman-Fried, was the #2 donor to the Democrats. He was only outspent by Soros himself!

It __seems__ Ukraine was receiving money from the US, Ukraine sent it to FTX, and FTX sent it to Democrats, who originally voted to send it to Ukraine. At this hour, it __appears__ to some observers, to be pure, criminal, money-laundering, and a criminal conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws.

It now seems to closely-watching observers that the kid burned his own company — and his own ass — just to make sure the Dems won the mid-term elections, and seems to have done it by pulling the rug out from all those that had funds there in FTX.

So the collapse of FTX is now linked not only to Ukraine, but also to US Democrat politicians who got money from Sam Blankman-Fried, to campaign for the just-ended elections!"

Is this why sending the $$ was so important??

INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 12 2022 18:49 utc | 16

Russia dealt out a lot of punishment on the Ukes at Kherson. Thousand of Ukes dead and wounded. then the Ukes destroyed enough bridges to limit Russian supplies. Then the Ukes threatened to blow the dam. Not good. Russians decide to withdraw. Russians blow the big bridge after they leave, indicating that they won't return that way any time soon. Indications are the mobilization came too late. Russia is having success around Pavlovka and Bahkmut. I suspect that what happens in the next week or so determines wether or not this turns into something unpleasant. I'd like to see another mobilization, soon. The Russians are, after all, fighting all of NATO. General Leroy has spoken.

Posted by: Leroy | Nov 12 2022 18:49 utc | 17

Side questions:

Where is Russia's announcement and formal accusation against the perpetrators of the Nordstream attack ?

Where is Russia's formal announcement about Britain's involvement in the Crimea bridge attack and attack against the naval port ?

Why hasnt Russia revealed all the supposed NATO personnel it had captured ?

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Nov 12 2022 18:57 utc | 18

Deplorable Commissar | Nov 12 2022 18:49 utc

My post was meant to illustrate the absolute absurdity of , on one hand Russia whining about how the US is agreement incapable, while at the same time discussing new agreements with it. Not to mention, continuing to supply resources to same countries that are openly calling for Russia's dismemberment and openly supplying personnel and material to achieve that goal. Russia even still allows foreign press and social media to operate in Russia. This is true insanity as those information streams are subverting Russian minds, especially the youth, during a time of war.

Russia also still engages with the UN and other organizations that are clearly controlled by the US and almost always side against Russia at every opportunity. Not to mention Russia's constant babble about the " rule of law ". My question would be what " rule of law. " ? Name me one " rule of law " that was ever successfully used against the US or Israel. I could go on, but everyone here knows about these things already.

Like I stated before, the US is far more cautious and deferential with North Korea then they are with Russia which absolutely makes no logical sense. Actually many things about this " war " make no logical sense.

Have to admit you make some valid points.

Posted by: spudski | Nov 12 2022 18:57 utc | 19

" Lot's of news talk about Russia using EMP's instead of nukes these days, I am not sure what Russia will do next but it still has the same few goals as it started with and it is still spending 1/50th of what Nato is spending.

Posted by: OohCanada | Nov 12 2022 18:56 utc | 20 "

Except the US prints money out of thin air, so money is not a problem. The rest of the world knows this but still allows and will allow it to continue for the foreseeable future.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Nov 12 2022 19:01 utc | 20

I'm reminded of the (late) Norm Macdonald quote:

“It says here in this history book that luckily, the good guys have won every single time. What are the odds?”

Posted by: spudski | Nov 12 2022 19:01 utc | 21

Ukraine plans to expand its military industry to produce more advanced weapons, and Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksiy Reznikov has said a state takeover of several companies would help Kyiv build a "drone army" and other NATO-caliber weapons.

The head of the Defense Ministry noted that the growing military ties between Kyiv and the West make Ukraine a de facto NATO partner. Reznikov said that Kyiv seeks to reproduce the Israeli defense industry. “We are trying to be like Israel – more independent in the coming years,” he said. The defense chief argued that Israel's advanced defense industry helps it maintain its sovereignty, adding: "I think the best answer [can be seen] is in Israel...to develop its national industry for its armed forces. It made them independent."

Ukraine has received tens of billions of dollars in security assistance from the United States and its partners. “We realized that [using] Soviet weapons systems … we are not independent. And it’s better to have new systems with new NATO-standard ammunition,” Reznikov continued.

On Friday, Reuters provided further details about Kyiv's plans for its arms industry. Reznikov said Ukraine was already in the process of building a "drone army" and was considering producing NATO-caliber artillery pieces.

The official also said that Ukraine needs to develop countermeasures against UAVs, as well as unmanned vehicles for air, land and sea.

Kyiv's plans to modernize its defense sector could face a number of challenges given the complexities of wartime. In recent months, the Kremlin has proven its ability to bypass Ukraine's air defenses and has severely damaged the country's power grid. In addition, Kyiv has already adopted a budget for 2023 with a $38 billion deficit.

“It doesn't matter when we become a de jure member of the NATO alliance. We have already become a de facto partner of NATO,” Reznikov said. "That's why we need to develop our military industry together."
https://t.me/loordofwar/59546

I don't know what they mean by "building industry" or the general meaning of this, but Ukraine hasn't developed any weapon except some modification of the old Soviet weapons. Certainly US MIC will not build "factories" in Ukraine.

Utter fantasy, they are on Nato life support and will continue be on Nato life support as long as the zombie isn't completely immobile. Either way, this tells that the war will NEVER end, until either Russia is separated into 9 different pieces or Ukraine is crushed, even as a zombie state. Very bad times for humanity are coming.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 12 2022 19:02 utc | 22

Repeat question:

If Russia has back doors built into its AA systems, why are Ukie S-300 and other systems still operational ? How does this bode for the S-400 in Turkish / NATO hands ?

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Nov 12 2022 19:11 utc | 23

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Nov 12 2022 19:11 utc | 27

If there is a backdoor, the value of those exported weapons will drop to zero. Noone wil buy it. They are not idiots.

Posted by: alek_a | Nov 12 2022 19:17 utc | 24

I don’t understand how anyone could have perceived that Russia ever had the upper hand in this conflict.

From a bird’s eye view, Russia is pitted against the entire western block with a majority of the worlds wealth and some one billion citizens. A regional power against a global power.

Russia’s only near parity in this conflict is nuclear war heads and tactical nukes.

From a game point of view Russia’s only chance is to draw the west into the Black Sea. I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia sacrificed the Crimea to facilitate this.

Posted by: Johnycomelately | Nov 12 2022 19:23 utc | 25

Who wins? Who loses?

The question deserves to be reversed.
What is the objective of NATO, the West in Ukraine? To dismantle Russia, to weaken it economically, to discredit it internationally, to isolate it, to weaken the power around Putin...? None of this has been in the right direction.

What is Moscow's objective? To protect the Russian-speaking regions, to show NATO that without diplomacy, war can only come about, to show the South the imperialist face of the West, and its truncated word. This is in progress but not yet lost. With an economic crisis in Europe looming as the icing on the cake.

But we must be patient for the conclusion, most commentators are too impatient and sentimental.


Roman civilisation was neither built nor destroyed in a few weeks.

Posted by: Le Catalan | Nov 12 2022 19:23 utc | 26

" Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Nov 12 2022 19:11 utc | 27

If there is a backdoor, the value of those exported weapons will drop to zero. Noone wil buy it. They are not idiots.

Posted by: alek_a | Nov 12 2022 19:17 utc | 27 "

All major US /Western weapons systems have back doors yet nations still buy them. All US critical electronic infrastructure has back doors yet nations still buy it. How many back-doors are built into the Windows OS ? How many nations still use said OS ? If Russia gave Turkey the S-400 with no back doors then they are stupid beyond believe.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Nov 12 2022 19:24 utc | 27

@ Zanon | Nov 12 2022 18:01 utc | 6

Thanks b, hopefully this will silence quite a few commentators here from spreading ad hominem in every post.
It would be great to actually enforce this by IP banning such users if they do not respect the rules though etc.

Sweet Jeebus. LOL. ROTFLMFAO. Thank you for that much needed uproarious belly laugh, though certain that was not your intention. That there is some Dogdamn, HUUUGE 'brass' (balls or ovaries ?).

With the greatest of 'respect' zanon ... may you be blessed by the Grace of Her noodly appendage, The Flying Intelligent Spaghetti Monster upon high.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 12 2022 19:25 utc | 28

The US uses Shock and Awe to destroy entire countries. Why can't Russia? What is wrong with them?
The US was in Vietnam for 20 years, Afghanistan for 20 years, and is still occupying Iraq and Syria (as well as Germany and Japan). Why is Russia taking so long to finish up in Ukraine?
On Star Trek Picard says "Make it so" and it is done. Why can't Putin say "Make it so?" and getter done?
In Star Wars the Death Star blew up an entire planet instantly. Why can't the Russians blow up all of Ukraine in 8 months?
So many questions, but those damn Putin supporters can't answer them satisfactorily.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Nov 12 2022 19:27 utc | 29

So many questions, but those damn Putin supporters can't answer them satisfactorily.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Nov 12 2022 19:27 utc | 31

Satanists like you cannot be satisfied. It's only an eternity of hollowness for you. Deal with it.

Posted by: Jusses | Nov 12 2022 19:31 utc | 30

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Nov 12 2022 19:24 utc | 29

If Switzerland buys F35 it's not because the price/quality rdlation is excellent, and it's not because that decision has been approved by popular referendum.

If Germany buys US gas at five times the price of Russian gas, it's not because it burns better.

If Australia buys US submarines, it's not because they are cheaper.

Posted by: Passerby | Nov 12 2022 19:32 utc | 31

" With an economic crisis in Europe looming as the icing on the cake.

But we must be patient for the conclusion, most commentators are too impatient and sentimental.

Roman civilisation was neither built nor destroyed in a few weeks.

Posted by: Le Catalan | Nov 12 2022 19:23 utc | 28 "

If Russia's goal was to inflict economic carnage on Europe they could have done that the first week of the war, by destroying all of Ukraine's electric infrastructure and thereby causing a massive refugee flow into the West. It can also do this by ceasing to feed the rest of the hostile world and others, thus causing a massive refugee flow from Africa and the Middle East. This could have been done with minimal loss of Russian lives and treasure.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Nov 12 2022 19:38 utc | 32

For those resolute souls still attempting to inform your network of the background to the Russia Ukraine war…
Here’s a 30min explanatory documentary up at iEarlgrey ATM.
YouTube is quick to take down his stuff, so maybe watch and download.
It’s been up 3hours and had 10k views, so that’s positive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yvMu5HNU1A

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 12 2022 19:45 utc | 33

I found it interesting that someone on the other thread mentioned that the head of DPR mentioned that among the mercenaries were Spanish speaking mercs.
Hmm. We in the US have watched over 2,000,000 mostly young men come over the southern border in the last 2 years. And then they disappear (except for the ones who DeSantis sent to Martha's Vineyard, who took 2 days to disappear). Where do they go?
I laughed at the poster who announced that mercenaries and ammunition were "infinite" but I do wonder at the stories we are being told.
The US, which spends a trillion dollars a year on the war machine, has run out of weapons and ammo to send to Ukraine? A trillion dollars a year and there isn't enough ammo to run a 6 month proxy war?
That seems odd.
Wave after wave of "Ukrainians" are mowed down by the Russians and still they keep coming? Speaking multiple languages, but motivated by patriotism and their love for their mother country Ukraine?
That seems odd.

The Biden administration has announced that half of America are its enemies. Trump voters are said to be racist, transphobic, gun toting white supremacists who who refuse to use the prescribed pronouns of the Woke, which is "literal violence", doncha know.

Maybe they are saving the best weapons and ammo to use on Americans. The country is bankrupt, homeless rates are soaring, as are drug overdoses, hatred of dissidents and heretics is being inflamed, and the targeted majority are getting pissed off.

To paraphrase George Bush the Lesser "This sucker's gonna blow".

Posted by: wagelaborer | Nov 12 2022 19:49 utc | 34

Wealth quantified in what manner? Piles of worthless paper or commodities and an industrial economy capable of making things? The latter is what Russia and its allies possess, not NATO/Outlaw US Empire as all it has is the pile of paper. Gruff's comment on the previous thread about military procurement and manufacturing was spot-on. Again, we're faced with those constructing straw armies.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 12 2022 19:51 utc | 35

From Korybkos article:

“ 9. Uncoordinated Military Objectives Among Commanders Complicated The Operation

The start of the special operation saw the Russian Armed Forces enter Ukraine from multiple directions, though it appears in hindsight that this was much less coordinated than many initially thought. Far from being part of a master plan aimed at encircling the enemy, it now seems to have been the result of uncoordinated military objectives advanced by more or less largely autonomous commanders, each of which sought to pursue their own on-the-ground goals without working closely with their peers.”

If true this is just shocking. No wonder NATO have no fear ..

Posted by: Moaobserver | Nov 12 2022 19:52 utc | 36

Concerned trolls are very active, trying to shake believers fate in mother Russia leadership.

Stay strong in you faith comrades, the light shall prevail. The other side is pure dark, and dark cant win versus light. Ever.

It is the law of universe, law of existence.

Posted by: Jzo | Nov 12 2022 19:56 utc | 37

The withdrawal from Kherson was a military necessity. The strategic errors were made months ago when the area in and around Nikolave was allowed to have a tremendous amount of forces gather without those forces being reduced by the Russia Air Force. Maybe the Russian Air Force is not as good as we believed. Maybe not enough attention was given to the situation. I don't know.

In any event a large force was gathered north of Kherson. This is the problem that was handed to General Surovikin. It also became clear that the Ukraine/NATO forces have the systems to destroy the dams and flood Kherson. This would leave the Russian military in the area with 20 to 30 thousand troops cut off with no chance of resupply. So no option there. They had to move to the other bank of the river. JMHO.

Posted by: george 1 | Nov 12 2022 19:59 utc | 38

Interestingly the Yankee's government salaried trolls are paid to lie. The paid-for propaganda armchair shills have always ignored the true reality of the War in Ukraine. Even though we see the figures on a daily basis.

Country 404 is destroying itself from within as we speak. That is something nobody not even the dumb&dumber Yankee propaganda writers can/will overturn with their daily lies DJT style.

Since country 404 is focussing on a pyrrhic victory in Kherson. For whatever troops sent there can neither advance nor retreat.

Pushing the focus onto the pointless wall to the north. Draining both manpower and vital resources from the southwest. Leaving a very large slice of the southwestern sea border sector wide open. Country 404 has near-zero air assets, near-zero mobility, and near-zero military reserves. That is and remains a basic fact of life. No amount of Yankee lies and fake paid-for lies in western imaginary propaganda can hide that reality period!

Thus as 'Tanya the Evil' would say "Operation Lockpick" has already begun. :)

The Russians have well and truly demonstrated the fable yet always failing Yankee "Shock and Awe" killing 36 million civilians since 1945. To achieve the always elusive victory in world supremacy. A virtual military "MAD" dead-end playing card.

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Nov 12 2022 20:01 utc | 39

Posted by: Le Catalan | Nov 12 2022 19:23 utc | 26

This exactly. Too many people here are stuck in the optics. Posters such as Commissar are asking questions which begs the question, is he that stupid or is he trolling? Patience people, Russia is against a rich opponent and the stakes go far beyond a military victory (whether that is even possible is a good question). Russia, like China, never prioritize military maneuver as a means to an end. Its just one of the tools they use amongst many others, simultaneously usually, to achieve their goals. As Catalan said, it will take time. Russia does not seem to be in a rush.

Posted by: Al | Nov 12 2022 20:11 utc | 40

@ Passerby | Nov 12 2022 19:32 utc | 33

Empires & emperors of antiquity required yearly costly travel & public processions with suitable entourage in tow, to publicly kowtow themselves and their people as 'loyal' submissive subject vassals.

Thanks to technological advances through the 20th century, especially re the Empire of Lies post Suez War '56, the suborned vassal non-sovereign nations of Empire, progressively wealth/resource/asset stripped over time, merely purchase 100's of billions of $USD of USA war junk annually. War junk that for many decades purpose is maximum profit extraction, NOT for the actual needs of its military, nor to be functional, fit for purpose, combat effective, reliable, cost effective to operate nor durable.

It has been for some time now all merely a means of masking Monetary Tribute.

The USA sits above the vassal hierarchy of the other 5-Eyes, followed by the 9-Eyes, then 14-Eyes, and the rest who literally don't count (see: non-white Japan).

Point in case, routine annual $USD Defense expenditure on the militaries of Empire is ~2Trillion+, excluding unplanned, exempt, off-books, 'wars' and serial one-off periodic allocations.

The Russian Federation ?

~66Billion $USD per annum, and look where we are today ... RF's economies and export GDP has double/trebled thanks to the insane self-defeating Western sanctions.

Ukraines standing military post Feb24 has ceased to exist along with it's Officer/NCO corp & cadre, trained specialists, national infrastructure (Rail/Electricity/Heating etc), arms manufacturing & repair/maintenance, resources, materiel stores, depots, and ammo dumps ... even their training facilities & grounds and denial of the ability to use them. Totally economically dependent of Empire for 'Loans' to sustain a defunct economy, donations for all arms materiel and maintenance/repair, including cannon-fodder abbreviated 'basic' training ... outside Ukraine.

Ooh-Rah! That their is some serious winnin' goin' on whilst the economies of the Golden Billion implode, increasing numbers of citizens primary living needs go unmet, unemployment & bankruptcies climb and industries & manufacturers bail-out, alternating freezing or suffering heat stress re the coming seasons without sufficient attainable resources for heating, cooling or cooking.

Only early days yet ...

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 12 2022 20:12 utc | 41

Sorry , comrades, there is not enough lipstick to make it look pretty . This was a major victory for Washington and Kiev , pains me to say so , but that's what it was. A major loss , more humiliation on the Russians side . Let's agree that the Russian's excuse is viable , the question then becomes why wasn't the potential for disaster realized before Russia put itself in this position ? Why didn't they see this before they committed to going into Kherson ? It's becoming painfully obvious that things are not going as planned. Has cronyism, incompetence , corruption , typical in Russian culture , caught up with the Russians ? Putin is a great leader , but he's too soft and unrealistic to be commander in chief, and where are these geniuses in the Russian military ... the ones that that Smoothie keeps talking about , nothing but a myth , apparently .

Posted by: Buford T Justice | Nov 12 2022 20:25 utc | 42

Oblomovka daydream ( Nov 12 2022 18:35 utc | 14 ):
Haha, thank you! XD

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Nov 12 2022 20:25 utc | 43

Natos goals in Ukraine.
1. Remove russias nuclear weapons, ideally over its own territory
2. Remove the Russian space program
3. Break Russia up into small pieces
4. Mutate its history into an object lesson of evil stupidity.
5. Return the Khazars to Ukraine

This is being done with Putins help as evidenced by his moronic handling of this war and craven desire to sign treaties with people that hate him.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Nov 12 2022 20:29 utc | 44

Christian Kreiss, German professor of economics at Aalen University, on the destruction of industry and the German middle class: "I have been working in economics for 40 years, and what I see now I have never seen before. Black clouds hang over Germany. Leading analysts from the Association of German Chambers of Commerce and Industry say we will see an economic contraction of 20 to 30 percent. And this is not just anyone's opinion, but the president of this association himself. And the president of the Federation of German Industry says that our industry is under threat. I've never seen anything like this - 10% inflation. We've printed a lot of money in the last few years. Checks have been written by this government that led us to believe that everything would be okay, that we could somehow get rid of it all with government money. But that's not the case at all. And above all, this is an attack on our middle class. The lockdowns have already seriously undermined small and medium-sized businesses, and so does the current sanctions policy of our government, especially our duo of high-ranking green politicians, who want to stir up more and more antipathy toward the Russian people and are actually pushing this war further. This is damaging and on a massive scale.
This sanctions policy - no more oil from Russia, no more gas - is so absurd. This gas then travels around the world and ends up here in the form of fracked dirty gas.
For example, Burbock says that the gas from the Nord Stream 2 pipeline serves the Russian system and Putin - it is, of course, easy for her to say. And this Habek, who shines with incompetence, would be better off writing children's books.
The topic with Ukraine is a complete absurdity. We are kicking ourselves in the nose with this energy policy, it does not help Ukraine one bit and does not harm Russia one bit. So sanctions in any case cause us significant damage. They do not help Ukraine at all. We shoot ourselves in the foot."

Posted by: Jo | Nov 12 2022 20:35 utc | 45

"This would leave the Russian military in the Kherson area with 20 to 30 thousand troops cut off with no chance of resupply."

Posted by: george 1 | Nov 12 2022 19:59 utc | 38

Funny how the USSR was able to resupply the huge besieged city of Leningrad for years, including in some extremely harsh, very bad conditions. The city was even blocked without supplies for months.

But that wasn't todays Russia and that wasn't little Putin.

There is no will to fight, or even to overcome obstacles. Russians retreat at first sign of trouble without offering resistance, ukrainians fortify everything and fight to the end.

Even the often praised (for what?) Wagner is only able to make advances of 90 centimeters per day.

Posted by: ObseverBG | Nov 12 2022 20:36 utc | 46

EU granted 1b to Ukraine for infrastructure improvement to assist exports eg grain.......

EU wants to improve rail for fast movement of military and stuff....maybe this is also part of the plan...helps out grain instead of Black Sea as Russia will not continue agreement after November....or in case their are missile and naval problems there?

Posted by: Jo | Nov 12 2022 20:41 utc | 47

"We also agreed on the importance of continuing the "grain deal"

Melaleuca | Nov 12 2022 17:35 utc | 1
*

Cargill more or less owns all the grain and facilities in Odessa. I think they are the biggest food dealers in the world, and the family has multiple billionaires.
"son chiffre d'affairs; 2014 est de 134,9 milliards de dollars". (wikiPedia)

So I presume Zelensky and chums are getting kickbacks. His emphasis is not only on arms smuggling.

***
The part played by US and other Oligarchs in the Ukrainian war situation is not reduced to "anticipating" what they can get out of it - but day to day profits. These are the people who want it to continue indefinitely.
****

I noticed the titanium markets and rail transport on the previous thread, so my question is - how much are Russian Oligarchs also involved as well?

Posted by: Stonebird | Nov 12 2022 20:41 utc | 48

@46

so you would like to repeat the immense suffering of the people of Leningrad? You reproach the Russians for not letting thousands starve and die without heating, food or medicine?
So you think they should sacrifice what, 10000, 2000o, 300000 young soldiers? For your pleasure? For your idea of what is right or wrong?
And have you compared your achievments and knowledge with that of "little" Putin? Have you ever met him? Have you ever been able to listen carefully to one of his speeches?
And did you follow Wagner's advances the last couple of weeks?
Rhetorical questions clearly.

Posted by: Anthony | Nov 12 2022 20:45 utc | 49

Deplorable at 15.

Various commenters don't understand the deference that North Korea gets.

I got bullied at school, until I stated behaving like a nutter and made a working gun using powder from fireworks. Never got touched after that!

The trolls do provide entertainment though. James et al, don't let the bastards grind you down.
Cheers, Oldengineer

Posted by: Oldengineer | Nov 12 2022 20:46 utc | 50

18


gazprom only just starting its own investigation...been "permitted " recently ie last couple days.

Posted by: Jo | Nov 12 2022 20:50 utc | 51

Must be a slow day in the war. I'm going to go pick some squirrel corn and maybe kick up a pheasant. Zanon, can I do that without getting my IP address banned...?

Posted by: DakotaRog | Nov 12 2022 20:59 utc | 52

Posted by: Jo | Nov 12 2022 20:41 utc | 47

EU intends to pay converting the Ukraine's rail network to the standard gauge in EU (a bit narrower track). Obviously to transport the wheat but also to move Nato stuff more efficiently into Russian borders. Earlier during the year they laid out a 750 billion euro "investment plan for Ukraine", intended to be financed by the 300 billion taken from Russia and maybe the money printer. It is completely suicidal but that is their deluded plan.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 12 2022 21:01 utc | 53

Posted by: Anthony | Nov 12 2022 20:45 utc | 49

All those who wanted to be evacuated were evacuated. Plus Ukraine accepts people coming from the russian controlled areas too. A flood does not last that long either. Kherson pales in comparison to the Leningrad siege, where garnison alone that had to be resupplied was half a million soviet troops.

You are telling me Russia can not find ways to resupply mere 30k troops for 1-2 months, even though the USSR was able to resupply half a million troops in far worse conditions?

Can not stockpile supplies? Can not organise air bridge until flood lasts?

If only the vietnamese knew that they should go back home just because the US had more ammo than them. Maybe the US would still be there.

Posted by: ObseverBG | Nov 12 2022 21:07 utc | 54

For those who question who is losing the Russo-Ukraine conflict:

1. Whose economy is full of energy and resources and functioning normally with low inflation?
2. Which nation has no anti-air defenses left to prevent the pummeling of its energy and other infrastructure?
3. Which nation is suffering ten times greater the casualty rate?
4. Which nation has no navy left (aside from improvised drones from jet skis)?
5. Which nation has no marines left?
6. Which nation has almost no fixed-wing fighters left (as attested to by the fact that there are no downed ones now after heavy losses early on?)
7. Which nation has lost 20% of its pre-conflict territory?


Posted by: FHTEX | Nov 12 2022 21:07 utc | 55

Putin miscalculated by presuming that the United States and NATO were smart enough to understand that while Ukraine is a vital interest for Russia, Ukraine isn't a vital interest for Western Europe much less the United States. Putin also presumed that the West was smart enough to understand the devastating consequences of Russia cutting off the supply of gas and oil.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Nov 12 2022 21:09 utc | 56

Posted by: Jzo | Nov 12 2022 19:56 utc | 37

“Stay strong in you faith comrades, the light shall prevail...”

Thank you, Jzo. I needed to hear that. Breath of fresh air.

Posted by: Mexicana | Nov 12 2022 21:10 utc | 57

ObseverBG | Nov 12 2022 20:36 utc | 46 "The city was even blocked without supplies for months."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Leningrad#Effect_on_the_city
"The 872 days of the siege caused extreme famine in the Leningrad region through disruption of utilities, water, energy and food supplies. This resulted in the deaths of up to 1,500,000[73] soldiers and civilians and the evacuation of 1,400,000 more (mainly women and children), many of whom died during evacuation due to starvation and bombardment.[1][2] Piskaryovskoye Memorial Cemetery in Leningrad holds half a million civilian victims of the siege alone."

This doco gives a lot more detail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiQDe0Au58c&t=2s It gives the bread ration in grams and the ingredients used to make the bread.

The siege of Leningrad also is where Putin's elder brother died. He is buried in one of the mass graves. Putin laying flowers on the mass grave where his brother is buried https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o873Wi9tw0

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 12 2022 21:13 utc | 58

Yesterday was Remberance day Fri 11

'Lest we forget'

Russia lost well over 20 million people fighting the nazi's

Now they have to do so again.

But we must not attack nazi sympathisers commenting on this blog ?
What ! We may hurt their sensitivity

While they carry out one atrocity after an other to their own people in Ukraine....Really.

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 12 2022 21:15 utc | 59

@ Neofeudalfuture | Nov 12 2022 20:29 utc | 44

The Empire of Lies (Inclusive of NATO & 14-Eyes+) current 'Objective' bears a remarkable resemblance to a rehash of GeneralPlan Ost pre Jun221941 courtesy of those formerly Hollywood favorites, Fascists/Nazi's/Neo Nazi's, those well attired psychopathic murderous swine who put the USA on the moon whilst gifting ICBMs that could do something more than just blowup on the launchpad. The 'Right Stuff'.

The Generalplan Ost ; (English: Master Plan for the East), abbreviated GPO, was the Nazi German government's plan for the genocide and ethnic cleansing on a vast scale, and colonization of Central and Eastern Europe by Empire. It was to be undertaken in territories occupied by Empire during World War II. The plan was attempted during the war, resulting indirectly and directly in the deaths of untold millions by shootings, starvation, disease, extermination through labor, and genocide. However, its full implementation was not considered practicable during major military operations, and never (fully) materialized due to Empire's defeat (Though put in abeyance until a future opportunity).

Fortunately Empire won the subsequent propaganda war over following generations in the 'West' claiming sole Victor/Saviour status in the final 11 months of WWII in Europe against da already all but defeated 3rd Reich, (Essentially concurrently being literally mopped-up by the USSR) whilst fighting against ~1/8th of da Nazi's military(1/8th comprising a majority of 2nd/3rd rate troops, including conscripted POWs).(Echoes of WW1 ?)

The program operational guidelines were based on the policy of Lebensraum (Living Space/Genocide (Cultural & physical) Food/resource/asset/industrial strip mining/looting)(See: King Leopold, Belgian Congo, early 20th century). Delegated for design & implementation to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party in fulfillment of the 'Drang nach Osten' (drive to the East) ideology of Empires expansionism. As such, it was intended to be a part of the New World Order, and establishment of the new 'International Rules-Based Order', initially in Europe.

Pop quiz question:
Who was the incompetent diehard Nazi who was recruited to head and staff occupied Germanies post WWII Military & State Intelligence services by OSS-CIA on behalf of Empire, and what did they get up to until the late '50's in partnership with the OUN, Forest Brothers, etc, in post war 'Peace' ?

History never repeats, yet Dogdamn often rhymes.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 12 2022 21:15 utc | 60

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 12 2022 21:13 utc | 58

See comment 54 again.

Posted by: ObseverBG | Nov 12 2022 21:16 utc | 61


fyi: from M.K. Bhadrakumar's most recent analysis on his website

https://www.indianpunchline.com/russias-kherson-withdrawal-is-tactical/
Russia’s Kherson withdrawal is tactical

certainly things are now much clearer in retrospect about the Russian withdrawal from kherson city/west bank of the Dnieper river. I can believe RF intelligence

from commander Sergei Surovikin’s interview on October 18:

....“We have data on the possibility that the regime in Kiev will use prohibited methods of war in the area of the city of Kherson, on Kiev’s preparation for a massive missile attack on the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric dam, the conduct of massive missile and artillery attacks on the city without distinction.

“These actions can lead to the destruction of the infrastructure of a major industrial centre and to civilian casualties...."

Posted by: michaelj72 | Nov 12 2022 21:18 utc | 62

Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Nov 12 2022 18:35 utc | 14

Posted by: spudski | Nov 12 2022 19:01 utc | 21

Thanks for the delightful laughs! Omygersh.

So, Russia did a departure from this place and occupies one side, while allowing AFU to occupy the other, right? Speculation: This leaves them a porous river--no crossings for army on bridges, but--so easy for a couple of fellas to get across. And most of the interested parties speak both languages. Armchair spook sez: lots of means for infiltration, sabateuring, local negotiations so to speak. MataHari stuff. Like old Berlin in the movies.

Lots of opportunities for the enterprising and bold, who know how to play both sides against the middle.

Anyway, former bubble-head here who secretly waits for the first LNG ship to mysteriously go poof (and you KNOW there'll be a video). I continue to stroke my beard over the whole situation and am grateful for the information, absurdity, and CHARACTERS here. I love you, Julianna.

Cheers

Posted by: zendeviant | Nov 12 2022 21:18 utc | 63

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Nov 12 2022 21:09 utc | 56

The west is in deep doo-doo, but waiting for them to "collapse" is far from certain. EU had the potential to disintegrate back in 2011 during the debt crisis, and today it should very well be as good as dead. However, EU morphed into a completely corrupt, totalitarian regime and control economy which enables it to be "coherent", on paper at least. It enables the Euro commission to be "important" and "maintain control". The national policymakers are all corrupted to not contribute to disintegratin the euro zone, even though it would make a lot of sense for the national interests they claim to represent.

Ukraine meanwhile morphed into a much much larger war than anyone imagined. While it may be true the original Ukraine army is basically gone, the cream of the crop, the original officer corps, original equipments etc. Nato is committing everything it can without ostensibly declaring war. It's not enough to wait for Nato to collapse on its own, the clandestine Nato forces crawling into Ukraine must be destroyed, as it's also a matter of survival. "Ukraine" is just a zombie host that will keep coming, forever until it can't crawl. Last report was we had 5000 Polish mercs/soldiers in Zaporizhe, the Russian military command is already talking about fighting Polish regular army.

All this means a heavily weighted industrial economy and probably expanded mobilizations needed to counter the extremely large Nato commitment in Ukraine. In a normal, sane, world the west would drop Ukraine, but they will not do so out of their free will as they view it as a stepping point in gaining the global hegemony. Russia is in their view on the chopping block, and later on, China.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 12 2022 21:19 utc | 64

Since the fog of war is so thick and the trolls so hysteric that their wails and those of their leaders/"politicians" is the main input from "the west" the conclusion has to be that's they're all suffering from severe delirium.

The "Ukrainians", the nazis, and the trolls are merely messengers symptomatic of that very same severe delirium that some go through before dying.

That is the alternative offered up to replace the daily updates from Russia and some jump at it with complete abandon. Doubt anything more factual than that can be said since the proof has already been posted on this page! I rest my case :D

· · ·

Stupidity is a lame excuse but if they want to replace "I was only following orders" with "I am suffering from mental disabilities" they're welcome to try :P

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Nov 12 2022 21:21 utc | 65

@Aslangeo

Some of his Key Points
2. Russia Learned Too Late That The West Doesn’t Negotiate In Good Faith
3. Diplomatic Discretion Left The Armed Forces & Citizenry Psychologically Unprepared For Conflict
5. Russia Never Had The Strategic Initiative In The Ukrainian Conflict
9. Uncoordinated Military Objectives Among Commanders Complicated The Operation
10. The Politically Driven Rules Of Engagement Hamstrung The Campaign’s Military Effectiveness
14. Faulty Intelligence And Wishful Thinking Catalyzed A Chain Reaction Of Complications For Russia
16. Hard-Fought On-The-Ground Gains Were Taken For Granted & Thus Improperly Defended
18. The Public Wasn’t Preconditioned To Expect The Conflict’s Evolution Into A Defensive One
20. The Military End Game Remains Elusive & Russia Is Increasingly Struggling To Shape Events


Yes, yes...The "ground". Yes, yes , the "objectives"...
The objectives are clear. Demilitarization, denazification, neutrality of Ukraine.
Always remember, Russia vs. Nato, with one hand in the pocket. War of attrition, not gaining ground.

Posted by: Mars | Nov 12 2022 21:22 utc | 66

Video . . .'Absolute euphoria': CNN on the ground as Kherson celebrates liberation. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 12 2022 21:23 utc | 67

Here we go again:
Azov nazis, perhaps some of the nazis Russia let go some months ago are back in Kherson terrorising the civilians as Russia quickly left.

Pictures and videos show that yesterday Anton Radko callsign Beserker with his Azov Nazi bandits entered Kherson. Pictures and videos show who they are. They openly show their Nazi symbols as they arrived to the city. Anton Radko's unit is known for torturing Russian POW and Russian speaking civilians.
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/13696
Video- In Kherson the repression against the civilian population has started.
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/13707

Now Russia have bombed the bridges so there is no way they can get back saving those civilians. Great, really great job Russia!

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 12 2022 21:26 utc | 68

Outraged #41

Ooh-Rah! That their is some serious winnin' goin' on whilst the economies of the Golden Billion implode, increasing numbers of citizens primary living needs go unmet, unemployment & bankruptcies climb and industries & manufacturers bail-out, alternating freezing or suffering heat stress re the coming seasons without sufficient attainable resources for heating, cooling or cooking.
Only early days yet ...


Thank you. I sowed another row of corn just to be sure I have some to pop in a few months while I watch the self inflicted debacle of the west.

Roger Waters is calling for all humanity to declare a Century of NO WAR. Sounds good to me, it is about time to shake off the addiction to the old Venetian trouble making/profit game.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 12 2022 21:33 utc | 69

Some one mentioned Spanish speaking mercs in Ukraine. Lots of Central and South American military personnel were trained at the School of the Americas. The company formerly known as Blackwater hired lots of them for different wars. Probably where they came from.

Posted by: Leroy | Nov 12 2022 21:33 utc | 70

I agree negotiations are impossible.

I disagree with why.

It is because the only possible negotiated solution was negotiated, Minsk II, and then the US and Ukraine refused to do it.

Then they refused even to talk about it.

So now the war must go on until Ukraine is destroyed. That will come soon. It may come for the EU economy too, a self inflicted wound.

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Nov 12 2022 21:34 utc | 71

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Nov 12 2022 18:49 utc | 15

It makes absolutely perfect sense. The US holds a begrudging respect for the DPRK, just like it does for Iran and the PRC and just like it did for the Soviet Union. As much as it hates them and seeks to destroy all of them, it recognizes that these are ideologically driven and coherent states for which sovereignty is sacred. Their core national interests, including their support for overseas allies such as Hezbollah, are not subordinated to "bizniz" deals and "negotiations" for deals with "partners" who have no respect for them and (understandably) never feel actually bound to anything they agreed to.

In contrast to the other examples, the US has since 1991 consistently refused to treat Russia as an equal to the USSR, and events in particular this last year has shown that they had every reason to do so. Russia is too cowardly and too weak to act as an actual great power in the world. The US, UK and EU consistently call its bluffs, and are successful every time. Russia constantly makes threats and red lines that it never follows up on. Why the hell should the West take threats and declarations of red lines from Russia seriously when Russia itself shows that the threats it makes aren't meant seriously?

(As someone, pointed out, Russia, in particular Putin and Lavrov, keep referring the the US and wider West as "non-agreement capable", but at the same time ceaselessly beg them to "come to reason" and negotiate with Russia, especially with the aim of restoring lucrative business opportunities for Russia's oligarch class. Often those will involve direct support for Western arms industries by selling them materials such as titanium. Such consistent undermining of their own rhetoric with their own actions of course leads the US, and everyone else, to respect Russia even less.)

As one of its latest bizarre blunders, Russia annexed four oblasts that it didn't even military fully control yet (!!) and then promptly ran from one of these, coming up with excuses for why this is the right thing to do "militarily". Russia has thereby demonstrated that invasions and attacks even on integral territory of the Russian Federation are acceptable, and that the Russian population in these oblasts are on their own if they don't run away from their homes together with Russia's military forces.

In fact, it had already demonstrated that before now by repeatedly tolerating missile strikes and sabotage actions on Crimea and Belgorod, even after repeatedly declaring that any such actions would result in attacks on both Ukrainian and NATO "command centers". No such reprisals have been forthcoming, again exposing that Russia is all bluster.

It now has no leg to stand on when Ukrainian and NATO forces continue to send missiles and shells into what Russia has since before the conflict seen as integral parts of its territory. Remember when Liz Truss said the UK would never recognize Russian sovereignty over Voronezh and Rostov regions and was mocked for it? Tim Kirby, an expatriate in Russia, wrote at the time that the joke was actually on the Russians, for failing to recognize that while she may be an idiot and a buffoon, Liz Truss had simply given an honest reflection of how the West views Russia.

She had in effect questionted Russian sovereignty over those regions, on a "diplomatic" visit to Russia, and gotten away with it with no consequences for her personally or for the UK. In consistence with this, in November 2022, Russia has now with its actions itself put the sovereignty over uncontroversial (until now) Russian oblasts along the border in question, precisely by equating their status of Kherson, Zaporozhye, Donetsk and Lugansk, by declaring the latter integral parts of the Russian Federation (and then retreating from them).

Posted by: Unnamed | Nov 12 2022 21:35 utc | 72

@54
let me repeat:

will you personally write all the condolence letters to the families of the thousands of Russian soldiers that would have died?
Expendable? Nothing for your conscience to bear?

Posted by: Anthony | Nov 12 2022 21:38 utc | 73

Mark2 | Nov 12 2022 21:15 utc | 59
"nazi sympathisers commenting on this blog..."

i'm not a nazi sympathizer but i am disappointed they didn't burn all copies of the Talmud, both Palestinian and Babylonian versions. oh, and we are still dealing w/that Khazar problem...and the bankers...so, no sympathy, but lots of disappointment.

damn. even the nazis stabbed me in the back! maybe b/c hitler was a secret jew?

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Nov 12 2022 21:42 utc | 74

"Operational Command "South" of the AFU: The task is set for taking control over the Kinburn Spit."

https://twitter.com/Trollstoy88/status/1591456148976467970

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 12 2022 21:43 utc | 75

Video . . .'Absolute euphoria': CNN on the ground as Kherson celebrates liberation. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 12 2022 21:23 utc | 67

...delayed 2 days (with a government imposed media blackout... because booby traps, lol) while they bussed the tourists and selected previous residents back in. Here is a test of media honesty... ask anyone of those cheering the directions to their former home and to take the reporter on a tour. ;-)

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Nov 12 2022 21:43 utc | 76

@ Oblomovka daydream | Nov 12 2022 18:35 utc | 14 with the humor that makes these recent Ukraine threads at MoA worth reading.

THANKS!

That is the kind of street humor that will get humanity through this crazy...share more

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 12 2022 21:46 utc | 77

@72;

Precisely. Putin is beginning to look like Nicholas II at this point.

Naive and out of touch.

USA is Rome, Russia is Carthage.

The obvious plan is to disarm and dismember Russia salami slice by salami slice.

Communism or extermination Russian citizens - ultimately your choice.

Posted by: moaobserver | Nov 12 2022 21:54 utc | 78

Like I stated before, the US is far more cautious and deferential with North Korea then they are with Russia which absolutely makes no logical sense. Actually many things about this " war " make no logical sense.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Nov 12 2022 18:49 utc | 15

That is a really stupid take.

USA could give a shit about North Korea, they are not viewed as a threat, rival or any sort of competition. Since USA has no worries about North Korea, it doesn't bother interacting with the North Korea. It is a complete lack of respect, the opposite of deferential.

USA worries about two nations, China and Russia in that order.

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 12 2022 22:04 utc | 79

Posted by: Anthony | Nov 12 2022 21:38 utc | 73

You don't want people dying, you don't start a war.

With Putin's dithering and half measures, this has a good chance to turn into another Vietnam war, lasting 10 years or more. With all the human suffering this entails.

Or into another Iran-Iraq war, where even prohibited weapons were used.

Posted by: ObseverBG | Nov 12 2022 22:04 utc | 80

Video - Gayparade in Taiwan is waving ukrainian flags, funny how many of those people are westerners!? What are they doing in a Gayparade in Taiwan? Embassy people from the west and or Ukraine?
https://t.me/intelslava/40940

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 12 2022 22:09 utc | 81

rjb1.5
In the present day both the Uqrainian and Palestinian public are the victems of the same fight the same enemy. The list of victem countrys is long.
Its about right against wrong, you won't here that from zelensky sypathizers here.
Its an 'animal farm' momment in time'
Two legs good for legs bad.
Fuck Israel and fuck the Uqraine nazi's say I.

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 12 2022 22:10 utc | 82

@ ObseverBG | Nov 12 2022 21:16 utc | 61

Dear ObserverBG, as an expert, no doubt personally experienced in military operational planning & command in modern war at Theater scale, would you be so gracious as to inform, educate & elucidate us on the following ? Thank you so very much in advance. xox

1. Definition of 'Dangerous Ground'
2. Definition of 'Deadly Ground'
3. Definition of a 'Salient'
4. Definition of a 'Cauldron'
5. Definition of a 'Fire pocket'
6. The minimum daily tonnage re logistical requirements of;

a. minimum ~10,000 troops & armaments (Ammunition & ordnance, POL, Medical supplies, food & potable water), 1,000's civilians facing imminent probability of occupying an isolated bridgehead/salient on imminently deadly ground with backs to the Dnieper once the bridges/dam were destroyed re bombardment/flooding;

b. minimum ~30,000 troops & armaments (Ammunition & ordnance, POL, Medical supplies, food & potable water), ~150,000 civilians facing imminent probability of occupying an isolated bridgehead/salient on imminently dangerous ground almost totally isolated by flooding and the extended aftermath of & the Dnieper (Kherson City) once the bridges/dam were destroyed re bombardment/flooding;

c. The type & quantities (daily) of logistical transport/delivery assets required to meet the minimum required tonnage resources/supplies (inclusive of medical evacuations, replacement troops) in each case;

d. Whilst in contact with a localized numerical superior enemy on up to three flanks capable of significant localized long range 'touch out and reach someone' fires & significant ground force fires & assaults.

5. Same as 4 above yet in regard to the 'Military Necessity' of the successful tactical withdrawal of above troops, material, wounded and civilian evacuees under fire whilst in contact.

6. Calculation of likely probable period of survival as a coherent fighting force under such situ, without relief.

7. Force required, resources and timelines of redeployment of sufficient forces in a river assault north of the Probable salient on deadly ground via the only realistic approach route to defeat enemy forces on open ground in maneuver battle to defeat enemy forces and relieve bridgehead/salient whilst wholly dependent on solely temporary military bridging over the Dnieper.

8. The planning lead time required to reach a final decision point deadline re commencing execution to avoid everything going pear shaped re (1) no relief, (2) failed relief.

9. Anticipated casualty & material & civilians losses in each scenario.

10. The obviously outstanding military advantage gained by doing so, the benefits of creating likely deadly fire pockets & cauldrons and justify knowingly willfully acceding to the 'stated' apparent localized military objectives and will of the enemy force, subsumed in a larger scale de facto war.

xox

Peace

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 12 2022 22:12 utc | 83

Posted by: Buford T Justice | Nov 12 2022 20:25 utc | 42

Sorry , comrades, there is not enough lipstick to make it look pretty . This was a major victory for Washington and Kiev , pains me to say so , but that's what it was. A major loss , more humiliation on the Russians side . Let's agree that the Russian's excuse is viable , the question then becomes why wasn't the potential for disaster realized before Russia put itself in this position ? Why didn't they see this before they committed to going into Kherson ?

Precisely.

Posted by: ObseverBG | Nov 12 2022 21:07 utc | 54

You are telling me Russia can not find ways to resupply mere 30k troops for 1-2 months, even though the USSR was able to resupply half a million troops in far worse conditions? Can not stockpile supplies? Can not organise air bridge until flood lasts? If only the vietnamese knew that they should go back home just because the US had more ammo than them. Maybe the US would still be there.

Precisely.

I see The Saker is the latest to paint lipstick on a pig and declare there was no mistakes made in Kherson for nine months leading to a retreat which gives away a significant strategic advantage.

Now the story is: "Well, it doesn't matter that they closed off the route to Nicolaev and Odessa because there are many rivers between Kherson and Odessa, so that wasn't a good route, either."

So now Russia can't cross rivers, despite having crossed the biggest one already, not to mention others. If this isn't copium, I don't know what is. It also ignores the fact that Russia did push up to Nicolaev before being stopped. So obviously the Russians didn't have much of a problem knowing there were rivers in their way, just like the fact that the Dnieper wasn't a problem. Of course, a more heavily defended river would be a problem - but the point of an operational plan is to handle those problems - which clearly was not done properly in Kherson. Complaining about the presence of a geological problem after the fact is just copium.

Once again: The issue is not the retreat itself, or how it was carried out, let alone the speculation about "thousands of Russians dead or captured" if something happened - something that was the job of Surovikin to prevent preferably without retreating. The issue is the threats were known for nine months - why weren't they addressed so that a retreat was not necessary?

The usual suspects may now start their insults, which b will no doubt allow.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 12 2022 22:16 utc | 84

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 12 2022 22:12 utc | 83

Now explain why this operational planning you speak of - which is the job of Surovikin and his superiors on the General Staff - was not engaged in for nine months, thus necessitating a retreat?

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 12 2022 22:21 utc | 85

Posted by: george 1 | Nov 12 2022 19:59 utc | 38

Pretty well agree George

The additional thing to remember, at least as an explanation for the go slow and failures, is that Russia believes or strongly suspects that should it lose too many of its forces, NATO would conduct a direct attack on Russia, which short of nuclear war Russia would lose.

On trolls: I think there is one sure way to identify trolls, even those who appear not to be. Those who carry on about Putin should'a, could'a would'a done this or that, are part of a deeply ingrained western psy op, which assumes that Putin is a sole dictator - like the Tsar or Stalin. Now in fact Putin is an elected president, who like presidents in western nations has to balance many different factions and must delegate responsibility for this or that to various ministers, who as in any western democracy will be drawn from differing factions of the government. Only fools assume that Biden (or Obama or Trump or Bushes or Clinton or Nixon etc) are the sole or even the most important decision maker. Others understand that there is a complex interchange between military, financial, religious, family, oligarch, international, and geopolitical interests. When these same people start saying Putin this etc, it is a sure sign of them being a troll.

Now personally I think Putin is a strong player when it comes to the diplomatic and legal actions, and probably also diplomatic intelligence, because that is his field of expertise, but in terms of military decisions, I would be surprised if he was the main or even a major player. His chief skill I suspect is in choosing the people to run the military and provide advice. However just as in the west, (in fact in every sane government that ever there was anywhere) he is constrained by factional politics. He may often have little choice about who is given certain key roles, because of the need to keep group A or B sweet.

My guess is that his first set of military advisors got it wrong. I also suspect his advisors underestimated the strength of NATO in Southern Ukraine. Clearly Mariupol was an infested stronghold. What now seems likely is that there was a similar build up in Odessa and Nikolayev. The sinking of the Moskva I think told us that. However let us also say that, if Russia in February 2022, did get wind of this build up, the SMO was the only sensible strategy, despite clear risks. They HAD to secure Crimea and the sea of Azov. All else was secondary- yes even Luhansk and Donetsk.

Posted by: watcher | Nov 12 2022 22:26 utc | 86

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 12 2022 22:21 utc | 85

There is no will for victory in Moscow ...
Plain and simple.

I could be wrong and that would make me happy ... but short of a big, massive advance from Belarus to Moldova in late November, Russia is going to cave in ...
Fairly sad and disgusting IMHO

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Nov 12 2022 22:27 utc | 87

The house organ of MI6 (The Guardian) is certainly spinning everything very nicely.

This paper along with the NY Times and WaPo is probably the closest we can get to the official voice of "The West".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/12/they-ran-away-like-goats-villagers-celebrate-liberation-in-kherson-region

"‘They ran away like goats’: villagers celebrate liberation in Kherson region"

"“Vladimir Putin said Russia would be here for ever. In the end they left in five minutes and ran away like goats,” Melnikov told the Observer, the first newspaper to reach Mylove since its liberation late on Thursday. He added: “Putin wanted to kill us. He’s ended up destroying his own country. Russia’s retreat from Kherson is an enormous failure.”

...

Ukrainian special forces swept in on Thursday night. By Friday morning residents had put out blue-and-yellow flags and were celebrating their first hours of freedom. They hugged Ukrainian soldiers sporting yellow armbands and offered them homemade pastries. “Our guys are heroes. God looked after us,” Melnikov’s mother in law Liudmyla said. “It’s been hard. I didn’t get my pension or tablets for my blood pressure.”

...

The last few days have been a disaster for Moscow. They suggest Putin’s audacious military plan to conquer Ukraine has failed, shot through as it was with hubris and magical thinking. His army was unable to conquer Kyiv and Kharkiv. It has now lost control of its only functional major city. Demonstrators protested in spring against Russian rule and on Friday were back on the streets, rejoicing at its demise.

...

The Russian retreat last week was a shambolic affair, announced by Putin’s hapless defence minister Sergei Shoigu. The last soldiers disabled the Antonivskiy Bridge, which Ukraine had targeted with US-supplied Himars missiles, and ran in panic across a pontoon crossing. Another bridge was severed at the Kakhovka hydroelectric station, which leads to the occupied city of Nova Kakhovka.

...

Ukrainian soldiers were euphoric. “Our morale is sky-high. We know why we are fighting. This is our land,” 28-year-old Serhii said. He said his home town of Oleshky – across the river from Kherson – was still under Russian occupation. “We will take back Oleshky and everything else,” he predicted. Next to his checkpoint were two burned-out Russian tanks and the village’s council building, a Ukrainian flag on its pole.
...

A few people were members of the resistance. Melnikov said he would sit on his roof – overlooking a yard of geese – and watch Russian military hardware as it rolled past. He sent the coordinates by mobile phone to his son who lives in the city of Dnipro. He then forwarded them to the Ukrainian army. “On one occasion I spotted a Russian rocket-launcher system. I sent a message. It all happened very quickly. Ten minutes later it was destroyed,” he said.

Putin’s attempt to bring Russkiy Mir or the Russian world to Mylove lasted for 245 days, he pointed out. “I was here from the beginning until the end. What amazed me is how many of Putin’s warriors seemed unfamiliar with toilets and asphalt roads. They arrived saying we were Nazis. By the time they left it was clear to everyone they were the Nazis. They destroyed everything.”

For any commentators - you hardly need to tell me that this "Melnikov" is a bullshitter or paid agent - the tone is interesting though, don't you think?

NATO perceives that Putin will never use nuclear weapons to ensure MAD. A dangerous assumption.

Posted by: moaobserver | Nov 12 2022 22:28 utc | 88

"If Russia's goal was to inflict economic carnage on Europe they could have done that the first week of the war, by destroying all of Ukraine's electric infrastructure and thereby causing a massive refugee flow into the West..." Deplorable Commissar@32

But if Russia's goal is to encourage the 'west' to destroy itself, in the expectation that, at some stage in the process, sanity will prevail and the process of self-destruction be reversed, its actions have been easier to understand.

After all the Kremlin could not have been expected to believe that the US would actually order the destruction of the Nordstream pipelines, because it understood the real danger of its euro-allies being turfed out and replaced by politicians a little more afraid of the electorate and a little less awed by imposing image of the paper tiger whose lair is on the Potomac river.

wagelaborer@34
A large proportion of the world's mercenaries are riff raff from Colombia, Honduras and other havens of those who lick gringo boots.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 12 2022 22:30 utc | 89

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 12 2022 22:12 utc | 83

The Soviet Union proved that it can supply several million besieged people (in harsher conditions), and for a long time, facing the Wehrmacht.

Kherson City is mostly evacuated, Russia also used obligatory evacuations in Ukraine whenever it wanted to.

You are saying that Russia does not have the capability to supply a population/troops who are 3 % of those in Leningrad?

Posted by: ObseverBG | Nov 12 2022 22:38 utc | 90

@Richard Steven Hack | Nov 12 2022 22:21 utc | 85

Dear RSH, glad to buddy.

Such contingency & subsequent execution planning patently obviously was, over the preceding period leading up to the execution of the successful tactical withdrawal and evacuation of civilians including assets/resources, coherent combat formations and materiel intact, with truly negligible losses of either, whilst in contact with the enemy, and over contested/under fire river crossings. Proof is in the puddin'.

THE most difficult, risky & demanding of all military operations any force can face on the battlefield.

And all under the all-seeing-eyes of the Empire and their proxy cannon-fodder, not realizing it was all completed, done-n-dusted, before they even expected it to complete (2-3 days to a fortnight more). And the UAF was so timid they tentatively did jack shit, once it was a fait accompli, trembling in their worn-out sneakers fearful it was all a deadly, deadly twap(sic).

Pretty impressive, what ? Empire & the Ukies, not so much.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 12 2022 22:40 utc | 91

Posted by: Unnamed | Nov 12 2022 21:35 utc | 72

The difference between how the West treats Russia and how they treat DPRK, Iran etc. (increasingly China) is because they see modern Russia as much closer to themselves ideologically. It would have been very different if e.g. communists were in charge. To them Russia resembles a large European country with a strong cultural and historical presence, its people wanting to have freedoms and economic prosperity in a way just like their neighbors in the EU.

It is just that there is a “regime” consisting mainly of older people that have suffered materially, morally and have been humiliated by the breakdown of the USSR. Some of that humiliation is still going on since 2014 in Ukraine. Many Russians have not been able to let go and process that loss, instead they hold a grudge and find ways to effect their grievances. This translates to seeking the impossible goal of attaining autarky/strength in order to once again define interest spheres.

These Russians say that otherwise they will be pillaged by the neoliberal empires of the West. So they resist culturally, economically and on the world scale in any way possible, just to show the West that they are worthy of respect and independence are not just another colony, even though they lost the USSR to the West in a bad horrible suffering way.

The West does not want to give them that because they themselves are a hierarchy of colonies and masters, always a boss above another boss. They are incapable of seeing other countries with compatible ideology without the lens of master/slave relationship. Because pretty much all of Western culture has been made in colonial times, although today they try to “appologize” and normalize this away as modernity and progressivism takes hold of perceptions. So, when a Russian leader stands next to the POTUS and asks him for actual respect, independence and non-interference, he is incapable to understand what he is talking about and sees him as a product of immature thinking. To him, the world is a system of various degrees of masters and slaves. If you dont want that, institute a dictatorship or communism - he understands it very well and knows how to deal with it (e.g. DPRK). But not wanting that and still asking to be a free player, that just doesnt compute.

What we see now is the defeat of those old Russians with a grievance looking for strength to establish own spheres. Even after much economic/industrial revival beyond USSR, military weapons that can rival NATO in some ways, we see the problem surfacing via the weakness of Russian commitment. The task is impossible because they are alone in challenging the leader of the pack. Russia acted unilaterally in February, probably provoked by the West for own goals (de-fossilization). The support for Russia in the rest of the world is lukewarm at best.

The situation since mid-summer started to deteriorate as a result. Today the realization sets in that a mistake was made. It pains me to write this as culturally all ex-communist European states are very close and far away from the predatory ways of the master/slave optics of the empires of old. Myself I live in the West and am daily confronted with the supremacist ways of the West. But the facts of the matter are that Russia needs to find new internal strength, other than physical/military, and transform somehow these losses in wins.

For example, one of the weak points in the West is that they need extremists for local control. E.g. ISIS or today the far right nationalists and nazis in Ukraine. They will be of course left to stew afterwards but right now they need them. These are not a bunch that is cheap or stupid to work with, they are high maintenance. So maybe Russia can find ways to make the costs ever higher.

Posted by: alek_a | Nov 12 2022 22:41 utc | 92

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Nov 12 2022 22:27 utc | 87

Well, I'm not prepared to go that far - yet. It depends on two things: 1) no negotiations of any kind with the US or Ukraine about Ukraine (I don't care about nuclear negotiations, those could go on for years and will have no impact on the Ukraine war); and 2) a real Russian offensive beginning in December.

If either of those things prove not to be true, then I'll have to reconsider my opinion of Russia.

All I'm saying now is that Russia mishandled Kherson, and no one on the pro-Russian side except Escobar and me (and Kadyrov) wants to admit it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 12 2022 22:42 utc | 93

So getting this thing straight with Kherson referendum and CNN/British bs corporation reporting.

Officially, Kherson has a population of about 280k. Let's give it a very conservative Ukraine "discount" of 10 % and call it 250k.

According to Russia, the voting percentage was about 76 %. The approval rate for joining is 87 %. If you believe those to be true (they may or may not be), you get 250k * 0.76 * 0.87 = 165k.

Russia relocated over 100k people from Kherson, how many exactly? I don't know. But most likely they were vast majority who voted at all, and voted yes in the referendum. Obviously several tens of thousands people might have still left who voted yes. The nazis will either kill them, or per some reports, they will force them to make televised statements that they were forced to vote at gunpoint. Same propaganda will be presented on MSM.

The point was that the majority of voters were relocated precisely because of this outcome, with actually pretty generous relocation schemes.

This war will continue a long time, and it's up to the war industry, mobilization and logistics capacity to decide who wins it.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 12 2022 22:44 utc | 94

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 12 2022 22:40 utc | 91

You didn't answer the question. I'm not talking about planning for the retreat. I'm talking about planning to prevent a retreat and to prevent the giving up of a strategic (or at least tactical-operational) advantage - which is what the retreat did.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 12 2022 22:45 utc | 95

@92

Astute observations.

Sociopaths (obsessed with others recognising their dominance) find any rhetoric about equality, multipolarity and "partners" to be even more insulting than if they were openly called enemies.

There is nothing more disgusting to a sociopath than the idea that anyone is equal to them.

Does "Putin" or whatever Committee is in charge realise who they are dealing with? Hard to say.

Posted by: moaobserver | Nov 12 2022 22:49 utc | 96

@Exile | Nov 12 2022 18:35 utc | 12

thanks for posting that link to Sahra Wagenknecht's talk.

Posted by: cirsium | Nov 12 2022 22:51 utc | 97

"Operational Command "South" of the AFU: The task is set for taking control over the Kinburn Spit."

https://twitter.com/Trollstoy88/status/1591456148976467970

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 12 2022 21:43 utc | 75

LOL... "Trollstoy" should have been a clue not to click. What are the going to land with, $200 inflatable rafts from Walmart? With no air cover? Then march along the beach and through the National Park to Sevastopol? Do they need a permit for that? Do they know LGBTQ parades are not allowed in Russia?

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Nov 12 2022 22:52 utc | 98

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 12 2022 22:12 utc | 83

Btw why are Russian air superiority and the stockpiling of supplies for months beforehand not mention in the conditions?

Posted by: ObseverBG | Nov 12 2022 22:54 utc | 99

Another note on The Saker: I posted my usual response to his take. And I was as far as I can tell the first to comment (which is unusual, I'm usually 100 comments late in posting there.)

He has not posted it.

Instead he's posted responses to two or three other posts which don't raise the issues I raised. He's also censored at least one of them.

This is called a total lack of intellectual integrity where I come from. This is why I don't like engaging with people - there is zero honesty.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 12 2022 22:54 utc | 100

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