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November 20, 2022

The MoA Week In Review - (Not Ukraine) OT 2022-203

Last week's posts on Moon of Alabama:

Other issues:



Death of a Narrative:

Use as open (not Ukraine) thread ...

Posted by b on November 20, 2022 at 14:27 UTC | Permalink

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Thanks, b, for another Week in Review. I jumped to the three China links and was surprised by what I read there. My take on the American Conservative piece about the Suez Canal is that it’s some kind of veiled threat at Britain, which leads me to wonder why this cabal feels a need to threaten Britain - I did not anticipate that. First, the British empire died by ‘46, not ‘56 as this article suggests, didn’t it? And I’m not knowledgeable enough to stare with certainty, but I think the geopolitics of that event are misrepresented. “The Americans understood that leaders like Nasser may occasionally be troublesome, but ultimately, they were the only game in town moving forward.” Really? That’s what the Americans thought there?? Further, when I read, “ The United States does not possess an on-off switch with which it can shut this growth of power and influence down, so its only rational choice is to set priorities and try to achieve them through subtle and skillful diplomatic work.” I wondered which country the author is speaking of. The only skillful and subtle diplomatic work the US seems to engage in is terrorism, n’est pas? So what is this? The Counterpunch article does elaborate: “The gangsters who exploded their gas pipelines now eye their trade with China, though admittedly blowing up tankers shipping manufactured goods is a more complicated affair. But the Empire is nothing if not creative when it comes to destroying what it perceives as a threat. Assassinations, riots, coups, curating Nazi movements, bombing pipelines – and I’m sure the list includes things we haven’t even thought of or don’t know about.” Earlier in that article, the author says, “ Those Dems who really want to avert World War III with Beijing will have to be very nimble. And they will have to go about it in a relentless, low-profile manner,” and I wondered again which country it is referring to. Skillful diplomats who operate in a nimble, relentless low-profile manner??

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Nov 20 2022 15:26 utc | 1

thanks b... lots of interesting articles to ponder if i can find the time!

Esbjörn Svensson Trio - Jazz in Marciac (2007)

can't seem to post john helmer articles here see john ... i like the title and content of his latest -


Posted by: james | Nov 20 2022 15:55 utc | 2

America's Suez Moment - American Conservative - good article others here would enjoy reading..

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2022 16:03 utc | 3

Beware Psiphon, CIA tech tool to assist, fuel global protests - Kit Klarenberg /PressTV

another really worthwhile read... thanks..

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2022 16:10 utc | 4

Bruised Northerner, the British Empire certainly wasn't dead in 1946. It was larger than it had ever been and, arguably, more powerful too.
For years after the war ended the UK kept hold of those parts of the empire that could bring rapid and immediate concerns: Malaya, for example, with its rubber and mineral deposits which were crucial in the economic plan. Which was to repay US loans with dollars earned with raw materials. Britain hung on to Africa, too, for as long as it could. And, serving the interests of the US, never let go of the string of bases, Gibraltar, Malta, Port Said, Aden, Colombo, Malacca, which guaranteed the eastern trade routes.
Look at Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Are they not still effectively part of the empire, led by the British into the maw of the US, and, in the last analysis incapable of asserting their own, as opposed to imperial, interests.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 20 2022 16:14 utc | 5

Many thanks,b - I can see the week in review posts you have collected are monumental in scope. We are so privileged to have you!

I have a lot to add, but I will keep to small increments as much as I am able. First, I realized this morning that my own old calendar readings in church have had also a significant scope - three long reads from Luke, Chapter 8, all ones that many will be familiar with, even if they are not church goers as I am not. The first is the parable of the sower who sows seed far and wide; the second is the story of the herd of swine entered by demons who perish in the lake - Dostoievski uses this story in "The Possessed"("The Devils"); and the third is the double story of the woman who touched the hem of Christ's garment and the ruler of the Temple, Jairus, whose daughter is dying.

These Sunday readings are like old friends to me as they came around this dark time of year every year my little church was alive and well in Santa Fe. I have been in the magnificent church that is there now - but it is so large; it is not for me. I am where Christianity began, celebrating in my home and grateful to be doing so.

A sower went out to sow...

Posted by: juliania | Nov 20 2022 16:16 utc | 6

In reference to the story by PJ Media that Trump's motives for holding on to classified documents were ego, rather than any desire to commit actual treason or espionage, I don't see how that lets Trump off the hook. It does challenge the simplistic and false narrative that Trump was actually colluding with anyone, but certainly not all leftists and liberals believed that (I didn't for one). We are still dealing with a person who believes himself to be above or beyond the law, and has always tried as hard as he could to bend it, if not break it. That doesn't mean that Biden is good, quite obviously. But why do people keep pushing the narrative that Trump is some anti-establishment figure, when he's obviously not? The other point about that story is why did that author see the need for obviously sexist stereotypes. It only subtracted from his credibility for me.

Posted by: Chip Poirot | Nov 20 2022 16:31 utc | 7

Bruised Northerner

Stay away from Suez analogies ! It is not what it seems. Eden had been Foreign Secretary and was an MC from Ypres as he mentioned to Hitler who had also been there. Eden replaced Churchill who had dragged on too long but MacMillan S Foreign Secretary - who had been British liaison in N Africa to Ike - encouraged Eden to work with Israel and France to topple Nasser

Dulles worked against Eden. MacMillan undermined Eden. Dulles was a disaster for Britain and US

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Nov 20 2022 16:46 utc | 8

I am sure someone's Sunday will be made more pleasant with the Schadenfreude of Macron getting bitch slapped... again LOL. Enjoy:

Posted by: Et Tu | Nov 20 2022 16:47 utc | 9

Thank you b, and james for pointing out the Suez article, which I have just read. I did put up a previous post which seems to have vanished - I will be patient on that.

A personal point about the comparison in the link - when my family had first settled in the US, my mother took us to the nearby Presbyterian church one summer's Sunday, and we sat listening to a sermon which dealt with the issue thusly: 'The US is always pulling Britain's chesnuts out of the fire.'

My mother was so offended, taking the thrust quite personally as a British subject, that we left and never went back.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 20 2022 16:57 utc | 10

German-based manufacturer headquarters to move to Forsyth County

German-based company bringing nearly 200 jobs to the Triad wfmynews2link

Posted by: Laura Roslin | Nov 20 2022 17:09 utc | 11

@ juliania | Nov 20 2022 16:57 utc | 10

thanks juliania for that personal story on your mom... here is a story on my mom which is different.. when i was about 12 i asked my mom why dad didn't go to church.. she suggested i ask him and his response was he was into Buddhism or taoism which i had no way of verifying.. at this point i told my mom that i wasn't interested in going to church anymore ( a roman catholic church ) ... i liked participating in the singing and i enjoyed the sermons in english, but everything else was in latin as memory serves... my mom was unhappy with my decision, but i do recall she basically honoured it..

it was Bruised Northerner @ 1 that drew my attention to it.. it is always a question of what to read and how many articles i can read.. i have the devils book on hold at the moment while i finish up reading a book by william ophuls that i got from the library that has to be back sooner then i'd like - platos revenge, is the title of the book..

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2022 17:12 utc | 12

@ Laura Roslin | Nov 20 2022 17:09 utc | 11

usa 1, germany 0............... when do the germans wake up? or are they allowed to?

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2022 17:14 utc | 13

I just read an article about north korean nuclear threat.

Now i wanted to through in the following thought: wouldnt it be beneficial to China to start a proxy war in korea prior to attempting to solve the taiwan question militarily? It would redirect us ressources towards korea leaving little left for taiwan.

Posted by: Orgel | Nov 20 2022 17:47 utc | 14

One of my regular humor web sites is which in not available for me today in West Coast USA land. In searching I learned that in September, 2022, the Dilbert cartoon was removed from about 80 newspapers in a chain owned by Lee Enterprises.

Any barflys know more about what's happening with Scott Adams?....his blog is gone also....sigh

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 20 2022 18:16 utc | 15

@ thank you b. Given the rapidly changing circumstances in Germany when is your next donation drive ?

@ james | Nov 20 2022 16:10 utc | 4

Same for Tor browser be very careful of what one uses it for ...
The only viable option is a 'trustworthy' paid VPN domiciled outside any of the 14-eyes/NATO nations, and other measures.

@ bevin | Nov 20 2022 16:14 utc | 5

Let us not forget Diego Garcia & the effective 'slow time' genocide of the Chagosians, & Perfidious Albion's(UK's) absolute contempt for the series of arbitration & legal rulings, given it's longtime lease of the territory to US as Militarized Guam Mk2, but that's the International-Rules-Based-Order for all to see ... pfft!.

@ Paul Greenwood | Nov 20 2022 16:46 utc | 8

Dulles was a disaster for Britain and US

And still his past echoes carry thru down to today. Yet the rest of the world was the true brutal victim of that utter bustard, not Perfidious Albion or the Great Satan...

@ Orgel | Nov 20 2022 17:47 utc | 14

China has no need to solve the Taiwan question militarily, by force of arms, a quarantine & Cuba style trade embargo will end the issue relatively quickly one would suggest.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 18:24 utc | 16

@ james | Nov 20 2022 15:55 utc | 2

and all interested.

Republicofscotland has posted a working variant URL link for


in the 'Ukraine Open Thread 2022-202' thread:

Republicofscotland | Nov 20 2022 14:15 utc | 298

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 18:58 utc | 17

Laura Roslin

The firm is Ziehl-Abegg and this refers to its US sub
It has plants across world making external rotor motors and A/C motors
Germany is still HQ

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Nov 20 2022 19:26 utc | 18

well, not that we needed any more proof that the EU legal system is corrupt, but

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 20 2022 19:45 utc | 19

Irresponsible agenda-driven reporting by Canada’s state broadcaster:

Canada needs to take a harder line on 'evil authoritarian regimes' like China: senator

The whipped-up hysteria is based on a series of allegations leaked to another media outlet by anonymous / unnamed sources. The allegations are treated as proven fact, with responsive legislation establishing a “foreign agent” registry already in the wings:

“While the registry is meant to act as a deterrent, it also would empower police to charge people for things that are not necessarily criminal under current law.

The proposed registry is similar to registries that exist elsewhere in the Five Eyes intelligence sharing alliance (made up of Canada, the United States, Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom).”

China Hand Peter Lee has written on the machinations in Australia and UK which produced the similar registries, in processes very similar to what is now underway in Canada - anonymous allegations, charges of “interference”, and deliberated exaggeration.

Posted by: jayc | Nov 20 2022 20:09 utc | 20

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 20 2022 18:16 utc | 15

Neither here nor there, but Scott Adams was a fervent supporter of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney IIRC. His "conservative" politics don't appear to be the reason for his strip being pulled by Lee Enterprises, however. Just another casualty of the endless corporate media consolidation in the US. He was probably not cheap either and they likely did a cost/benefit analysis when they cut his and other cartoonists' comics.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 20 2022 20:19 utc | 21

RE: Scott Adams, it appears he was also going a little bit crazy.

Said if Biden was elected in 2020 he and other Republicans would probably be dead within a year.

“Dilbert” creator Scott Adams made a fearful prediction about the 2020 presidential election on Twitter on Wednesday, telling his Republican followers that if Joe Biden is elected to the White House, “there’s a good chance you will be dead within the year.”

“Republicans will be hunted,” he wrote in a follow-up tweet, later adding, “Police will stand down.”

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 20 2022 20:21 utc | 22

Outraged @16, Just because the US gets most of their products from China is no reason to think that they wouldn't do something completely insane. As far as manufacturing in this wonderful hellhole, the US would need a national crash program just to build washers and dryers here, let alone anything else.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Nov 20 2022 20:22 utc | 23

let alone anything else.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Nov 20 2022 20:22 utc | 23

Like baby formula for example. But I agree with your take. There is very little tethering the DC policy elites to main street realities and the rank incompetence in the deep state only grows by the year.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 20 2022 20:33 utc | 24

@Chip Poirot | Nov 20 2022 16:31 utc | 7

Trump was colluding all right, but not with Russia. He was busy making Israel great again.

After all he is where he is, thanks to Jewish money.

As the perfect narcissist he cater to flattery, and what can be greater than your own book in The Bible?

True to himself, he also blamed them for his downfall, so Ivanka isn't his favorite child anymore.

Question is - will he get back into the White House without them?

Posted by: Anne B | Nov 20 2022 20:41 utc | 25

@ Immaculate deception | Nov 20 2022 20:22 utc | 23


Though in terms of US initiating/entering into high intensity conventional War with China, & actually win it as opposed to a US Navy/Marine Amphibious force slaughter ? Am still waiting for anyone, anywhere, to outline a viable Strategy & OpPlan ... cause cannot see it ...


Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 21:18 utc | 26

indian punchline from today..

Multipolarity shows up in Kazakh steppes

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2022 21:35 utc | 27

@ psychohistorian | Nov 20 2022 18:16 utc | 15

Try finding him @ Scott Adams Says, his daily (?) podcast. He has an active Twitter account too.

Posted by: majoab | Nov 20 2022 22:01 utc | 28

The fate of humanity is to repeat your past. It is inevitable and at this point in your evolutionary development you have no choice but to follow your true natures.

You are about to enter the great depression of the 21st century. A lot of you are aware of this but because of your development level there is nothing any of you can do to avoid it. In ten years from now you will begin what will be World War Three. Once again at this point in your development nothing can be done to avoid this. A look through this forum will show all the human behaviours that make it impossible for your to avoid this outcome.

After the war Humanity will once again be in its natural state and your capacity to harm yourselves will never bring you to a point of extinction ever again. Mind you amongst my group my opinion is not universal and others believe that we should intervene once more and provide the spark to give civilization another chance. I must add that this view is a minority one as twice failed indicates a third attempt will be futile.

All lot of you are afraid of the coming war. Yes it will be a nuclear war. Humanity will survive despite your erroneous belief in your capacity to destroy life on this planet. You really are not as powerful as you all believe.

The events on this planet are the result of cosmological events beyond your comprehension. The ripples of these events manifest here on Earth as major wars and natural catastrophes. Unfortunately, as my faction see it, due to your lack of development you cannot avoid your programming and seem to be doomed to being taken by the cosmological river with no capacity to change course. The opposing view is that with the genetic changes induced by the global nuclear war humanity will be able to overcome your innate tendency to self destruction and proceed on the path to development of a cosmic conciousness if we decide to intervene again..

One more thing...reality is not what you see, feel or think and the human concept of death is part of your false belief of reality. Take heart in that.

Posted by: Klaatu | Nov 20 2022 22:18 utc | 29

@ Klaatu | Nov 20 2022 22:18 utc | 29
Are you related to Xenu ? Or just an underling ?

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 22:24 utc | 30

Xenu is the brainchild of a manipulative human and bears no resemblance to reality. Most of you realize this.

Posted by: Klaatu | Nov 20 2022 22:31 utc | 31

good stuff klaatu.. how ironic, lol.. i liked the spelling errors too.. that helped to make it even more real...

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2022 22:40 utc | 32

Unfortunately James I have no choice but to use your devices to access this forum. The device I am using today is a tablet and is prone to inadvertent erroneous inputs.

Posted by: Klaatu | Nov 20 2022 22:47 utc | 33

@ Klaatu | Nov 20 2022 22:31 utc | 31

LOL. Great stuff. Bravo. Dani & you are simply brilliant. :)

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 22:47 utc | 34

In "
Russia Enlists Iran as its Force Multiplier"
, Crooke cracks open the door to the Outlaw US Empire's biggest nightmare according to Ned Price:

“This is a deepening alliance that the entire world should view as a profound threat…this is a relationship that would have implications - could have implications beyond any single country.”

Fortunately, the Outlaw US Empire and its remaining vassals are far from "the entire world" who seem to be welcoming this arrangement, including Persian Gulf nations, although a few barflies may have noticed the negative spin aimed at Qatar as the World Cup gets underway. (The FIFA President denounced all such media efforts with RT reporting, "Gianni Infantino said Europeans should ‘apologize for the next 3,000 years’ for their past sins.")

The main item Crooke reports about is the impact of Iran's announcement it's successfully tested a hypersonic missile. Here's the relevant passage:

Now comes the news from last Thursday: Iran says that it has developed a hypersonic missile. General Hajizadeh said that Iran's hypersonic ballistic missile can reach more than five times the speed of sound, and that very few countries in the world possess this capability. “It will be able to breach all present systems of anti-missile defence - stressing that no anti-air system has yet been developed by any foreign nation which can intercept them. This missile represents a great generational leap in the field of missiles”, the IRGC commander added.

A few days earlier, Iran also announced that it had launched a ballistic missile carrying a satellite into space. If so, Iran now has ballistic missiles capable of reaching not only "Israel, but Europe as well.

Simply put, Iran essentially already is a nuclear threshold state (but not a nuclear weapons state). The remarkable technical achievement of producing a hypersonic high-precision missile (which still eludes the US) is a paradigm-changer.

Strategic nukes make no sense in a highly mix-populated, small Middle East -- and now, there is no need whatsoever for Iran to move to become a nuclear weapons state. A hypersonic ballistic missile capacity makes tactical nukes redundant. And hypersonic missiles are more effective; more easily deployed.

I found the statement about air defenses interesting since many of us assume Russia's S-500 and other newer systems are capable of intercepting hypersonics. But of course, developing and testing are but two phases prior to mass production and fielding. Crooke muses about how that development affects Occupied Palestine's
Nuttyahoo but doesn't waste too much space delving into that twisted, evil mind.

As usual, Europe's problem is it's followed the Outlaw US Empire's diktat, thus screwing itself again.

Collectively, Iran plus the constellation of 'Stans, Armenia, and Belarus when added to Russia provide that grouping with about the same population as the Outlaw US Empire, but with much higher educational and cultural statuses as well as a far larger resource base. So, what has occurred is a merging of Iran with what was the USSR that was actively plotted against by the British then the Americans only to see their efforts alienate Iranians and promote the conditions that's resulted in the merger. And that grouping is already within the much larger EAEU/BRI/ASEAN/BRICS bloc.

With the Empire soon to lose the remainder of Southwest Asia and Turkiye to the Eurasian project, the next presidential administration will face a world the Empire has never previously faced that will present some stark choices. And we're sure to hear this question: Who Lost the World?

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 20 2022 22:48 utc | 35

Outraged @31 & Klaatu @29--

Must second Outraged's kudos while commending Klaatu's attempt to put itself into the 3rd person while writing, which presents little traps. And the device emits output from the user's input, the former becoming erroneous due to the device's foibles.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 20 2022 22:59 utc | 36

@Orgel 14

The USA regards the ability to defend yourself from aggression as a threat. That does not mean that those able to defend themselves are threats, any more than regarding a tail as a leg means that dogs possess five legs.

The US is. And for years has been, the only threat on the Korean peninsula. The Koreans and a Chinese know this. The US cannot fight a war with North Korea without the loss of much of the 35 million living in Seoul, and the radiological contamination nation of large and important regions of China and Russia which would almost certainly result in WW III and the extinction of most extant life on Earth.

The Chinese know this and would never in ite it. Americans know nothing and might. Which might be one reason why most of the world regards the idiots in the USA as the greatest single threat to humankind.

Posted by: Hermit | Nov 20 2022 23:00 utc | 37

Perhaps a thread on Iran's onslaught on the Kurds would be interesting? It's a complex issue.
As is the death of Syrian soldiers by Turkish fire today.
And Russia, Syria's saviour, trying to keep up good relations with Turkey, Iran and Saoudi Arabia and even Israel all at the same time...some high-level juggling there...

Posted by: Anthony | Nov 20 2022 23:05 utc | 38

Ahh keep demonstrating why you are my favourite human on this site.

Posted by: Klaatu | Nov 20 2022 23:05 utc | 39

@ karlof1 | Nov 20 2022 22:48 utc | 35


S-500 yes, though limited, also capability re low sats. And in development testing S-550.

Empire has no effective AD Operational or Strategic level. No effective AD re drones/intelligent cruise missiles. Zero defense, zero re Hypersonics.

Yup Hypersonics are the deathnell for conventional nukes.

Iran going Hypersonic. Wow.

Re Geopolitical re-alignments alliances, been posting precisely this since return from lurking for a week or two now. It is all there if one merely looks.

'All' the strategic indicators go only in one direction re analysis & subsequent conclusion.

Who Lost the World? The Big Guy and his insane neocon handlers acting on behalf of the Vampyres.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 20 2022 23:11 utc | 40

I wonder how many barflies still can't access Strategic Culture? I assume some still have problems, so I'll provide Martin Jay's short article, "Commission Chief Faces Corruption Probe Over Pfizer Contracts in full':

Is it possible that the President of the European commission, Ursula von der Leyen is not quite as squeaky clean as some might assume? Do such lightweights, who define themselves by how much they fail to achieve, who come from the bowels of political obscurity in Germany rise to such prominence without a little help from powerful elites, masonic links and corrupt corporations?

The answer is of course. In fact, within the scope of the European Union and its institutions in Brussels and Luxembourg, this is largely the tradition: to either install puppets who serve powerful governments and their corrupt interests, or giant industry itself. Corruption rules.

And so it should come as little surprise that Ursula has been implicated in playing a murky role in a 35bn euro vaccine deal which stinks so much that it has the very dark powers in Brussels are working over time on a damage limitation plan to save the collective neck of the EU as it heads towards the abyss: its own elections in 2024, which are expected to have all time low voter turn out with far-right groups making a killing in the European parliament.

The European Public Prosecutor’s Office has opened an “investigation” into the EU’s coronavirus vaccine purchases, an announcement that will throw a spotlight on Ursula von der Leyen’s odd behaviour at that time, according to probably the most pro establishment media outlet in Brussels, Politico.

The media outlet is so supportive and compliant to the EU that the fact that its journalists are breaking the story is important as it indicates that it is the EU hidden powers, the cabal in Brussels and Luxembourg which are never in the media sphere, which are worried about von der Leyen and her murky deals.

It’s unclear why The European Public Prosecutor’s Office (EPPO), which claims to be an independent EU body responsible for investigating and prosecuting financial crimes, including fraud, money laundering and corruption, is handling the case when traditionally it would be OLAF – the EU’s own internal anti fraud unit. In the past OLAF has always been accused of not being objective enough in its investigations, often protecting high level EU officials. Are the powers that be trying to actually do the unthinkable and genuinely investigate von der Leyen for corruption?

Until this point, the whole story is opaque, without even the outline of a case.

The EPPO did not specify who was being investigated, or which contracts were the subject of inquiry. But that said, two other watchdog agencies have brought attention to the von der Leyen – Pfizer deal, probably one of these being OLAF.

Yet OLAF or the EPPO, like any EU institutions, are not exempt from being manipulated by national member states’ interests and in this case it appears that the Belgians have an axe to grind, with, at this stage, only intercepted text messages to go on.

Belgian Socialist member of European Parliament (MEP) Kathleen van Brempt said that “several aspects” of the Pfizer contract need to be looked into, including “the text messages between the Commission President and the fact that there is no paper trail of the preliminary negotiations in first instance.” Van Brempt is referring to text messages to the Pfizer CEO.

In April 2021, the New York Times first reported on these messages exchanged between von der Leyen and Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla in the run-up to the EU’s biggest vaccine procurement contract — for up to 1.8 billion doses of BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine, potentially being up to 35 billion euros when all was finalised.

In January this year, bizarrely, the EU’s ombudsman charged the Commission with maladministration for failing to look for the text messages in response to a freedom of information request. The commission played cat and mouse and pretended that such messages no longer existed.

All the old guard of the EU is circling around von der Leyen, which would indicate she has broken the house rules on putting her hand in the till.

Last month, the European Court of Auditors published the aforementioned report in which it said the Commission refused transparency regarding details of von der Leyen’s personal role in the Pfizer contract.

In it, the budget watchdog found that the EU chief went rogue in order to personally hammer out a preliminary deal with Pfizer, instead of relying on joint negotiating teams.

All of this points to the establishment wanting to make sure that the image of the EU is preserved. It may well be that the hapless Commission boss will be made a scapegoat but allowed to remain in office until 2024.

Corruption, even high level, within the EU is of course nothing new. In 1999, an entire European Commission cabinet of 20 members were forced to resign under a cloud of corruption allegations, which featured one French commissioner giving her dentist huge EU contracts worth hundreds of millions of euros, other commissioners employing friends and family members and one commissioner presiding over out of control embezzlement from the EU’s humanitarian fund.

High-level corruption within the corridors of EU institutions is a tradition largely protected by EU institutions supposedly created to prevent such graft. In the case of Ursula, she seems to have gone rogue and not respected house rules so will have to be made an example of. The EU can’t have its own puppets swashbuckling the high life and doing their own thing, can they?

And we all know this is merely the tip of the global corruption iceberg that's part of the "Justice" China keeps mentioning in Xi's speeches and media editorials. Jay's article nicely fits with Finian Cunningham's article someone here linked to and was also published by SCF, here.

Europeans have more than enough evidence of serial/criminal corruption involving the EU and NATO to divest themselves of both, return to their previous nation-state status, shove the Outlaw US Empire out of Europe, and attempt to reform their relations with Russia and China, who happen to be Europeans's path to a prosperous future.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 20 2022 23:32 utc | 41

@ majoab | Nov 20 2022 22:01 utc | 28 with the Scott Adams link...thanks

I like the Dilbert comic mostly but have no time to listen to his prattle, which I did until I couldn't handle it anymore.

Oh well, onward

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 20 2022 23:45 utc | 42

Outraged @40--

Yes, gamechanger to be sure.

I like your Vampyres term as it conveys more sinisterness than my Parasites and implies the Plunder's been ongoing far longer than Neoliberalism. I also thought Putin's description, "Empire of Lies," easier for most people to understand than my Outlaw US Empire. I find it odd that another nation hasn't invented its own Superhero to defeat the Vampyres, Parasites and the Empire that succors them.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 20 2022 23:48 utc | 43

I find it odd that another nation hasn't invented its own Superhero to defeat the Vampyres, Parasites and the Empire that succors them.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 20 2022 23:48 utc | 43

That's because other nations know that vampires as well as super heroes are all fantasy names for just one thing: unchecked greed.
In a real world with checks and balances that the ROW is busy creating, the unchecked monster can be confined in a cage, never killed because it lives in each and every one of us. Older, wiser cultures know this and account for it.

This is why superhero stories invariably reveal the flawed saviour.

just my two cents.

Posted by: K | Nov 21 2022 0:13 utc | 44

@44 K | Nov 21 2022 0:13 utc

That was well said. Thanks.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 21 2022 0:22 utc | 45

On the term "plunder".

Eduardo Galeano's Open Veins Of Latin America [in excellent English translation] uses the word "plunder" repeatedly that it seems obviously his choice for the clearest communication on the subject. Galeano published Open Veins in 1971 with a sequel added for the period 1972 thru 1979.

At the outset of that work, Galeano states his dislike for words that are not understood by the general public, as opposed to writings between academics which often are mixed with desire to impress with one's credentials, titles, etc.

He traces plunder from the 1600s...reliably so. Open Veins is a sobering, straightforward work... that I was late to finally get a copy and read it as a companion piece to Hudson's And Forgive Them Their Debts.

Open Veins explains so much in simple english that his work is a primer to Hudson's....and I hope and bet that the Chinese read it carefully. {Galeano died 1979].

Posted by: chu teh | Nov 21 2022 0:35 utc | 46

re Open Veins Of Latin America

English translation is
by Cedric Belfrage.

Posted by: chu teh | Nov 21 2022 0:44 utc | 47

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2022 17:12 utc | 12

Sounds like we both had very sensible moms as teenagers, james. I don't remember myself being sufficiently affronted, but now I'm remembering that it wasn't only the affront against her British heritage -- it was bringing politics into a sermon that offended also -- and I'd be with her on that today. In my little church we didn't even do special prayers for the President and the armed forces - those are in the books we used - we skipped them. I remember our priest saying those were the trappings of empire, even back when that was not how the US was portraying itself.

And yes, I loved the sung masses at my high school, and was delighted to find that Orthodox services are totally sung, even the readings and prayers are chanted.

I'm happy to see my earlier post did finally appear. I didn't make the point clearly, but the three stories I mentioned are not read all at once, but on sequential Sundays. As a consequence, I've only thought of them all together as aspects of Christ's teaching this morning when reading the final one - each is different and involves very different encounters. As is the 'jubilee' sermon on which Michael Hudson has based his 'Forgive us our debts' thesis.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 21 2022 0:48 utc | 48

K @44--

Thanks for your reply! I hadn't delved into that realm of the psyche when posing question. What's your opinion on the Walking Dead series? My wife's way into it, but I'm merely curious and rarely watch.


chu teh @46--

Bastiat in the mid 1800s is the one I found using the term Plunder often to describe Imperialist behavior. I found Veins a masterful and very important work and always suggested it to students.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 21 2022 1:02 utc | 49

"A whopping 41 percent of climate scientists say they don’t believe the official “climate change” narrative that’s promoted by politicians and the corporate media, a new report has revealed..."
New report:

From the concluding section of article:

The World Climate Declaration points out that since emerging from the Little Ice Age in the mid-19th century, the world has warmed significantly less than predicted by the U.N.’s International Panel on Climate Change’s models

“The gap between the real world and the modeled world tells us that we are far from understanding climate change,” the WCD states.

The declaration argues Earth’s climate has varied, with cold and warm periods, for as long as the planet has existed, and it is “no surprise that we are experiencing a period of warming.”

The climate models “are not remotely plausible as global policy tools,” ignoring, for one, the benefits of carbon dioxide, which is “not a pollutant.”

“It is essential to all life on Earth,” the declaration says.

“Photosynthesis is a blessing.

“More CO2 is beneficial for nature, greening the Earth; additional CO2 in the air has promoted growth in global plant biomass.

“It is also good for agriculture, increasing the yield of crops worldwide.”

There is no statistical evidence, the signatories say, “that global warming is intensifying hurricanes, floods, droughts, and such-like natural disasters, or making them more frequent.”

“There is no climate emergency.

“We strongly oppose the harmful and unrealistic net-zero CO2 policy proposed for 2050.”

Last year, Steven Koonin, an under-secretary of science in the Obama administration, published a book titled “Unsettled.”

In the book, Koonin said, “the science is insufficient to make useful projections about how the climate will change over the coming decades, much less what our actions will be.”

The idea that climate change is settled demeans and chills the scientific enterprise, he contended, “retarding its progress in these important matters.”

In 2020, the long-time green activist Michael Shellenberger wrote a book called “Apocalypse Never.”

Shellenberger laments that the conversation about climate change has “spiraled out of control.”


UN, WEF, China, Russia, Biden are all over that narrative. They must all be right and these bozos wrong, right?

Seriously, I think it's an absurd proposition but it's amazing to me how many otherwise intelligent people fall for it. The persuasion principle or some such. More importantly, since most of the world is following net zero policies now as part of 2030 Agenda (or whatever), many will die early the next few years as this Great Reset initiative, which is premised in part on this cruel, deluded narrative, gets going in earnest starting this winter. Most likely people will endure the power failures and food shortages and more because it's good for the planet and will loyally attack those who question the narrative accusing them of being internet trolls, or industry / CIA shills...

Posted by: Scorpion | Nov 21 2022 1:20 utc | 50

Empire of Lies… lies about who they are
Vampires… who steal names and heritage….

A 5min truth bomb.
If he wasn’t a rabbi himself, The host would have shut him down.
But he was forced to listen. And squirm.
The reason why they steal and use the name Israel-and the star of David. is the shut down any criticism of Jewish people. so they condemn you as antisemite.

Hmmmm. Kinda interesting that one of the troll tactics here is to steal long term and (mostly) respected poster names.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 21 2022 1:24 utc | 51

What's your opinion on the Walking Dead series? My wife's way into it, but I'm merely curious and rarely watch.
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 21 2022 1:02 utc | 49

I've hardly watched any US TV or movies for years. I can't stand the banality, the propaganda and the constant violence. Like the Empire itself descending into more and more degeneracy so goes its entertainment.
I mean one can only take so many surgically created identical faces with perfect straight white horse teeth. I would have nightmares for sure. Even British TV is more homely and honest. Though also too violent and dark.

Maybe some western comedians and rappers are the only dissidents? The American ones seem to be unusually prone to premature deaths so they must be doing something subversive.

I'm interested in themes that explore more than "us against them". Hard to find in any language but at the very least I only watch content that is doing some kind of truth telling, be it societal, political or whatever and some mindless escapism as we all need from time to time. So I enjoy Asian tv and movies, Indian, South Korean, Japanese, Chinese etc I find the story lines to be far more original and engaging, of course I have to put up with subtitles. Non English, Non western content is great for the cobwebs in the brain and even at times the sorrow in the heart.

Not to say there is nothing good coming out of the west, I hope there is.

Posted by: K | Nov 21 2022 1:54 utc | 52

@46 chu teh | Nov 21 2022 0:35 utc

Here's a free download of Open Veins:

[PDF] [EPUB] Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent Download

And thanks for the reference.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 21 2022 1:59 utc | 53

Melaleuca @ 51

That star is actually an ancient occult symbol representing Molech whom they offered their child sacrifices. Basically burning them alive on a hot barbecue.

Another term for it was the seal of Solomon who actually codified and perfected that ancient death cult religion in use today across a spectrum of Gentile organizations and a small number of non Semitic powerful people who call themselves Jews but are not.

It represents many occult groups in times past that are diametrically opposed to the representation of the bibles various authors/characters attempted leadership of ancient Israel. It is quite plainly mentioned throughout the bible but most do not understand those passages of the prophets, judges, and leaders unless they understand the tenets of this ancient death cult religion.

Basically most them them died and lost the battle against this cult along the way. Ancient Israel was wiped out multiple times only to be currently resurrected with a new mostly non Semitic people. The symbol is very ancient. This multi headed multi dimensional cult is the ruling class of the Western nations today. I do not know about the Eastern nations.

Actually despite all the issues they have faced the Jewish religion has organized quite a successful and
coherent group of people throughout the ages. The well of history is deep and dark. Mostly polluted.

Personally being part jew I reject the theology based on their desire to control all outcomes in all cases. They say it is a fear of another holocaust but in reality it is just pure superiority complex that one would never hear unless you get close to them and are one of them.

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 21 2022 2:07 utc | 54

@51 Melaleuca | Nov 21 2022 1:24 utc

Stealing the name of another strikes a seems to be a tactic long used in history, but I can't put my finger on other examples.

But it seems the same as hiding a war plane behind a civilian plane; placing artillery in a school or hospital; calling oneself a Semite instead of those whose land you steal.

I can't complete the thought at the moment. It's important but I can't quite give it the context it deserves. But there's something here in the entire act of telling a bare-faced lie and feeling no remorse for it.

Indeed, the trolls do this, and indeed, they must not think it's a very big crime. And indeed, the age itself is grossly corrupted if this is so. And it is so - but no one is excused by this. Something is very wrong.

Frustratedly, I have to leave it there for now...

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 21 2022 2:14 utc | 55

@41 karlof1 | Nov 20 2022 23:32 utc - "All the old guard of the EU is circling around von der Leyen, which would indicate she has broken the house rules on putting her hand in the till."

I love that line. Nicely said, that man. Broken the house rules on putting her hand in the till. May that be her epitaph. As the jackals turn on each other.

Thanks for posting - SCF is down for me too at this time, and Martin Jay tends to be someone I read.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 21 2022 2:20 utc | 56

Karlof1 @ #43.

Don't allow yourself to be persuaded that your "Outlaw US Empire" is redundant or past its prime. It's evergreen and will remain so until sane Americans wrest control from the elected and unelected psychopaths.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 21 2022 2:22 utc | 57

@35 karlof1 | Nov 20 2022 22:48 utc

Crooke reports that the US is not eager to help Israel fight against Iran. And he tells the story of action by the US that (once again) has produced an outcome exactly opposite to what was expected, to the great disadvantage of the US.

And so now, can we expect to watch as Israel goes it alone, and performs actions designed to benefit itself, yet which only hasten its demise?

Ah, Bibi. We know we shouldn't interrupt an enemy who is making a mistake. But actually to wish for this? Despite the inevitable tragedies that will form part of the actions? Even so, I can't help it.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 21 2022 2:28 utc | 58

K | Nov 21 2022 1:54 utc | 52
This is a comment I got called to IRL duties before posting… it links to what you are saying.

(From the previous Ukraine thread)
Featherless | Nov 20 2022 13:01 utc | 289
“……I really get a kick out of Medvedev since he’s been re-assigned to troll the West !”
Yep. He’s really found his professional niche.

Also Down South | Nov 20 2022 12:09 utc | 283
Interesting that the Russians like Medvedev, Lavrov, Maria and of course Putin cite historic literature….. while western analogies call on scenes or a sentence of dialogue from Harry Potter, Spider-Man or Star Wars references.

I’m going to repost Medvedev, because I enjoyed what he said the first time, and

It's almost like the favourite cockroach, Janissary, in the play "On the Run" by the famous Kievanist Mikhail Bulgakov.  So I want to remind them of the indisputable facts: 1. Kiev is the capital of ancient Russia. 2. Kiev is a major little Russian city within the Russian Empire. 3. Kiev was the republican capital as part of the USSR. And finally, Kiev is simply a Russian city where people have always thought and spoken in Russian.  To be perfectly clear, what and how should be returned...

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 21 2022 2:42 utc | 59

@ outraged and @ klaatu - thanks for your earlier posts in this thread...

@ karlof1 - i can access strategic culture again here in canada.. thanks for your posts...

@ juliania | Nov 21 2022 0:48 utc | 48

there is a saying about not mixing religion with politics, and also not talking religion and politics in polite company too, lol.. in this book i am reading the fellow talks about the importance of metaphor in communication.. i am not sure how metaphor differs from what parables do. of course the parables in the bible are brilliant too.. i think aesops fables work in a similar manner.. really it is a form of symbolism to convey something in a more imaginative and intuitive way, i think.. that we what we try to do with words, but words often fail, whereas stories like these go deeper.. the book i am reading ( see @12 post) suggests we need to address others like they have been living for millions of years.. this is why nature resonates so much more with people, then much of the man made world we live in today - especially cities.. i think poetry works too, but think of how disconnected our society and culture is from that.. well, maybe it is only my perception..

Posted by: james | Nov 21 2022 2:42 utc | 60

I had begun to comment on the crypto thread last week that I was re-reading my copy of David E. Stuart's Anasazi America, second edition 2014. The preface had alerted me to his overall thesis, which is that America, the US, is on track to repeat the rapid rise and fall exemplified at Chaco Canyon, New Mexico by a civilization remarkable both in its rise and in its sudden fall.

This interested me, given that 2014 is a milestone as far as what we might call a world-wide awakening, a shifting of techtonic plates. It seemed to me that the crypto implosion, starting small and yet to resolve, is another shift.

Anyway, still staying in Prof. Stuart's preface, he asserts that, quote:

" 2013...the well-placed have grabbed so much that our structural problems have become more like Chaco Canyon's over the fifteen years since the first edition was written. Worse still, most American business elites simply do not know how to manage their banks, brokerages, and businesses as stable, homeostatic entities, so some create risky will-o-the-wisp temporary islands of "growth," such as debt derivatives..."

There is, however, a second stage in the Chaco story, which is the further development of the present day Pueblo communities in New Mexico and Arizona.

"...The Chacons had grown spectacularly in the 800s to the Mid-1000s CE, but they lost their adaptive agility as their size and increasingly stubborn formulaic responses, forged in earlier - and less complicated - centuries, failed them. The parallels to modern America seemed obvious....

[jumps now to an interesting comparison with modern puebloan cultures]

...In competitive terms, the powerful society [Chaco] has an enormous short-term advantage over the efficient one [Puebloan] if enough energy is naturally available to "feed" it, or if its technology and trade can bring in energy rapidly enough to sustain it. But when energy (food, fuel, and resources)becomes scarce, or when trade and technology fail, an efficient society is advantageous because its simpler, less wasteful structure is much more easily sustained in times of scarcity...

Well, duh, you may say, but there's a bit more to come - I'll take a breather before continuing.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 21 2022 2:44 utc | 61

Posted by: james | Nov 21 2022 2:42 utc | 60

Oh good, james! I just finished posting the first part of my attempt to simplify what Prof. Stuart is saying in his book "Anasazi America" - if you will bear with me when I post the second part, I think I can answer what your "Plato's Revenge" author is saying. My last comment to come, I think will do that -- it has to do with the importance of culture. That's a better term for how we talk about our faiths, our interactions between those faiths, our diversity of faith. I can't talk about buddhism, though several of my family are buddhists - or be immersed in other cultures except as a visitor enjoying their hospitality. We have a lot of different ones represented on this forum doing just that - even it seems from outer space!

Posted by: juliania | Nov 21 2022 2:52 utc | 62

circumspect | Nov 21 2022 2:07 utc | 54

Ancient Israel was wiped out multiple times only to be currently resurrected…


*720 BC, the northern kingdom of Israel is conquered by Assyria. Much of its Israelite/Aramean/Amorite population is either deported, mixed w/ settlers from the empire or flees southward to Judah.

*587 BC, the southern kingdom of Judah is conquered by Babylonia. Its Judahite/Israelite/Aramean/Amorite/Moabite population is mixed w/ settlers from the empire and it elite deported to Iraq.

*539 BC, the Achaemenids conquer Babylonia and allow the Chaldeanized Judahite elite to return to Judah, mixing with the settlers of the Babylonian empire and fresh settlers of from the Achaemenian empire. Remember the Land of Nod, Sodom and Gommorah, Lot and Nimrod from Genesis? Iranian.

*329 BC, the Persian province of Yehud is conquered by Alexander the Great. Its mixed race population is further mixed with Greeks and then Egyptians under Ptolemaic rule until about 200 BC, then Syrians under Seleucid rule until about 167 BC.

*140 BC, the Samaritan Maccabees led a rebellion that resulted in an independent Judea kingdom. Their mixed race kingdom subsequently became further mixed with Itureans, Galileans and Idumeans. Remember Herod? He was Idumean(“Edomite”). Not exactly kosher, is it?

*In 70 AD the Romans dismantled Jewish national institutions in the wake of a revolt. In 136 AD they dismantled Jewish identity after a second.

So, “the Jewish people” have always been an amalgam of different peoples, some Semitic, some not. What held them together wasn’t their religion, it was their land. The religion only became a thing once they lost their land for longer than a few generations.

Posted by: Hmpf  | Nov 21 2022 3:11 utc | 63

re Open Veins Of LATAM...Warms me heart.
Thanks your replies and data.

Another related subject...I am curious.... Is there anyone familiar with the 2 Richard Hakluyts et al who in the 16th century began collecting the information for Britian's world-survey of [all] Earth's r4sources? Or heard of it?

Seems QE#1 and her Court was informed by the merchant/trader oligarchs that the Isles would soon not exist under English rule because the fast-expanding Spanish/Portuguese fleets, having discovered and claimed 2 new continents with virgin, agricultural lands and unlimited mineral/timber riches, were going to dominate sea-trade and overrun the Brit Isles.

Thus began GLOBALISM with conquest and domination [AKA plunder]...and Britian better play existential catch-up/?

I'll check back tomorrow on this thread for further replies. Thx.

Posted by: chu teh | Nov 21 2022 3:18 utc | 64

Read genesis and they were just a nomadic tribe that lost their land dues to sea level rise.

They managed to grab and hold a bit of land for a very short period in their history but that's about it.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 21 2022 3:19 utc | 65

FTX related:

“A Grand Unified Theory of the FTX Disaster
The Wars of Wars: Where the Wars Intersect”
Mathew Crawford10 hr ago

Posted by: suzan | Nov 21 2022 3:25 utc | 66

chu teh@64
Hakluyt's work is well known. But it took a lot more than the suggestion that there was money to be made from raiding the Iberian pirate ships to begin the process of globalisation.
England was perfectly placed, by geography, to control the transatlantic trade routes. It was also, as an island, able to defend itself from foreign invasion relatively cheaply. Among other advantages its early development of capitalist agriculture meant that it could supply ships with both men and provisions which could be invested in long distance trade at a time when armed trade and piracy were almost indistinguishable.
Loved your work with the 8th Route Army by the way.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 21 2022 3:31 utc | 67

@ juliania | Nov 21 2022 2:44 utc | 61 and 62

juliania, i am going to be busy the next day and won't be around tomorrow.. we can continue later.. one thing i will say though is a poster here at moa about a month or more ago was mentioning this author william ophels who wrote a book called 'immoderate greatness' why civilizations fail... i read this short 80 page book which inspired me to read this other one of his - plato's revenge.. so your discussion of the book on chaco canyon life cycle or about civilizations failing is interesting synergy here... stay well.. back on tuesday hopefully..

Posted by: james | Nov 21 2022 3:59 utc | 68

Kurds in Syria an Iraq are being bombed by a co-operation of the “waaaay-more than merely willing”.
Turkey bombed settlements in northern Syria and Iraq.

Iran last night bombed Kurds in Erbil **

And last week Russia bombed Kurds in Syria.

Should this be seen as U$ proxies being de-proxified?

**caption: The sirens at the #US Consulate in #Erbil don't stop,they are on repeat

The US had eyes in the skies:

On the same theme. Turkey said it would veto Sweden into NATO until Sweden stopped supporting terrorists (Kurds) attacking Turkey.
Sweden laughed. NATO laughed. Turkey kept vetoing.
Now Turkey is bombing Kurds.

~~”What does Jens Stoltenberg say?

Sweden and Finland need to tighten their anti-terrorism legislation and expand cooperation with NATO, including Turkey, in the fight against terrorism and terrorist organizations such as the Kurdistan Workers' Party.
“Jens Stoltenberg, Secretary General of the alliance, stated this in an interview with STV.
“There is a DW article from 03.11.2022 where Jens said Sweden and Finland were ready to join the military alliance.
“What happened Jens?

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 21 2022 4:07 utc | 69

Here is my final comment, which I hope will tie in my first long comment about the stories in Luke, assorted snatches of church experiences, and the two now, focussing on the beginnings of David E. Stuart's "Anasazi America". This follows my quotes at 61 above:

"...human culture responds more rapidly [than other species] to new circumstances than genetic change does, and hence culture is an inherently more powerful (but riskier) evolutionary mechanism. Our cultural ability to transform ourselves has allowed our species to change the metabolic signature of its societies at will and dodge many of the evolutionary bullets that have extinguished other species...In a human society, the energetic signature is encoded in cultural software. We just rewrite the program as needed. The rewrite, though, like our perceptions of a given problem, is often imperfect. So failure,transformation, and survival are themes of this book..."

He goes on, and I have to say, these are terms I wouldn't myself use, but they make sense to me. I am happier listening to Putin or Xi talk about the many different cultures within their citizenries - how that is what makes their national coherence what it is. You can hear the pride in their voices.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 21 2022 4:08 utc | 70

@ juliania | Nov 21 2022 4:08 utc | 70

thanks for the additional note.. it is most interesting that you say putin or xi's talk is more rewarding or happier to listen to.. i think i am more drawn to viewpoints on everything that are more positive in nature, then negative.. i get this in all of what i read of putin via the speeches shared here at moa, or the russian gov't website.. how to remain positive in the face of stories that seems deflating? difficult, but doable...

Posted by: james | Nov 21 2022 4:14 utc | 71

Yesterday, while Turkey and Iran bombed the Kurds in Syria and Iraq….the US had a P8 Poseidon doing a tight surveillance circuit in the Med, just off Latakia and Tartus, Syria - where Russia has its base.
- OSINT flightrader

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 21 2022 4:40 utc | 72

Pretzelattack 19

Your logic is flawed- it has NOTHING to do with EU Legal System - ZERO

It refers to European Convention 1948 and its Court set up by UK
It has a separate Treaty to implant findings of ECHR in national law

It was set up BEFORE EEC

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Nov 21 2022 4:49 utc | 73

Just waking up here to a clear cold morning on a day when the sun will pop up for only minutes and then drop below the
horizon until late January. I'll climb to the high point on the island around noon to bid ol' sol adieu and then get back to
my warm wood stove, warm wife, and easy chair where I hope to spend the dark season reading more threads like this one.
It's certainly one of the better threads lately thanks to james, Juliania, karlof1, Grieved, p-historien, chu teh, bevin, K,
Peter AU1, and others ( u always court trouble when listing ). Don't any of you dare go off da 'Moon'!

And oh yeah, it'll be a good day to re-read 'Open Veins' so special thanks for the reminder, and the PDF.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 21 2022 5:48 utc | 74

England’s £160 World Cup kit is made in Bangladesh by workers on 21p an hour.
[(_ But do continue with telling the world about western values that are held so dear)]
>…”Its Nike who are outsourcing the labour to bangladesh not England.
[>>Phew. That makes it A-Ok. ]

I thought I loathed Piers Morgan.
And then he said this. Hmmm. Damn good points he makes.
Host. Not happy. (Which is actually my fav sport now… host with a “gotcha” getting got instead)

And, as the focus is on western “values”== remember Julian…
Football Legend Eric Cantona reminds football fans: "Let's not forget Julian Assange. A journalist jailed in England for publishing war crimes" #FreeAssangeNOW #WorldCup2022

“BREAKING: CBS suspends all activity on Twitter ... which is the first time anyone noticed CBS was on Twitter.”

What I enjoyed most about Macron getting bitch slapped, was his security coming from behind, grabbing his ready-to-reply hand, smothering him while simultaneously bundling him away.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 21 2022 5:49 utc | 75

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 21 2022 5:48 utc | 74

Happy darknes, waynorinorway! We got winter early this year, but not to such an extent. I do notice the sun, but paradoxically it floods into my garden - briefly but radiantly - still; whereas in summer there's a lot of shade. And what creatures of habit we be - trips back down under after being so long away, it seemed to me the sun was travelling backwards in the sky - orienting myself northward then instead of south now. Most unsettling.

It is indeed time to read. Enjoy!

Posted by: juliania | Nov 21 2022 6:27 utc | 76

(side bar) Humans just clicked over the 8 billion population mark. Which reminded me of a few things.

Animation: Human Population Growth Over All of History
For the first 180,000 years or so the global population remained under 1 million. From 20,000 BC to 1 AD when agriculture arrived it grew rapidly to about 170 million. Then in the next 1800 years with the industrial revolution and the massive carbon energy pulse we hit 1 billion people.

It took 200,000 years of human history to get to one billion people – and then only 200 years to reach seven billion - on 31 October 2011.

That’s partly how the exponential “hockey stick” growth curve works, but it is also a factor of improvements in living standards, sanitation, and medicine that came after the Industrial Revolution.

Now it has taken only 11 years to grow by another 1 billion to hit 8 billion people. That is very fast.

So, what is exponential growth?

Exponential Growth: How Folding Paper Can Get You to the Moon

Of course everything has it's limits. Humanity did not increase food production, housing, energy supply, natural resources, nor clean water availability by 14.28% (1 of 7 billion) in the last 11 years. Which is interesting, to say the least.

Posted by: SeanAU | Nov 21 2022 6:31 utc | 77

>…No. Not like that.!
Here , a US congresscritter cries because U$ planes and weapons are used by a U$ ally and NATO partner to bomb U$ proxies used to disrupt and conduct terrorist attacks against said ally and NATO partner.

>…Analysts on mainstream & pro-govt Turkish TV discussing whether a “Turkey-Russia-Syria partnership can be formed.”
Subheading reads:
“What needs to be done to kick the USA & PYD out of Syria for good”

Lost in translation.
The Afrin resident is complaining about the Syrian Defence Force (U$ sponsored) looting and raping his village.
His words are translated for Turkish television blaming the YPG (U$ sponsored).
Who are the Syrian Defense Force…. Well, before their deft rebranding…they were …. YPG. So the Turkish translation is not wrong… just called the spade is original name, not it’s fancy US “these ones aren’t the ones we declared terrorists … because we changed their name😁)

Here’s a US Uniform explaining how Coke can be Pepsi… it’s all just branding.

Turkish MoD:
"In line with our self-defense rights arising from article 51 of the United Nations Treaty, the CLAW SWORD AIR OPERATION was carried out in the regions located in the north of #Iraq and #Syria, which are used by terrorists as bases for attacks on our country."

Turkey’s interior minister says PKK responsible for the attack that killed 6 yesterday, says “the order came from Kobani” and the US is also to blame. Says condolences from the US “is like the murderer being the first to arrive at the scene of the crime.”

That the U$ sponsors the Kurds is a conspiracy theory according to Kurd twitter.
Oh. What’s this?
[pic of U$ vehicles on patrol with troops with PKK flags: (I lost the tweet).!]
And the translation:
“Accomplices of all terrorist organizations...”

> a #US special commander speaks #Kurdish during ceremonies gratuation for internal security forces in north east #syria.

The US Senator Lindsey Graham has acknowledged the link between the internationally recognised Turkish terror group, the PKK, and the Syrian YPG.
Lindsay Graham would know… he and John McCain met with ISIS leaders in Syria at the start of the Syrian War….

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 21 2022 7:27 utc | 78

...trips back down under after being so long away, it seemed to me the sun was travelling backwards in the sky...
Posted by: juliania | Nov 21 2022 6:27 utc | 76

Ha. I can relate.
For many years I lived in California, looking east to the Sierra Nevada Mtns. One day while in Denver without a car I wanted to go
into the city center. I looked at the Rockies and got on a bus. At the south end of the bus line I realized I had been looking west to
the Rockies and was 180 degrees out of proper orientation.

Here in the north the rising and setting of the sun changes much faster from day to day than at your latitude. My front window
faces east so in the spring and fall the sun appears to rise over the mountains there. But it appears in a noticeably different place
each day, so much so that sometimes I wonder if I’m standing up straight. And I never drink in the morning!

Here’s one for you Juliania. Maybe Outraged, who I forgot in my previous post, can put this in his jukebox in the corner.
Have a Sunny Day

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 21 2022 7:30 utc | 79

@ waynorinorway | Nov 21 2022 7:30 utc | 79
@ juliania | Nov 21 2022 6:27 utc | 76

Added to the playlist.

You forgot me in your previous post ? Au contraire, 'cause you remembered. ;)

My goto when I'm really down, is a looped version of Louis Armstrong, the Great Satchmo ... laying back, eyes closed.

What a Wonderful World Youtube. Runtime: 1h00m51s

Never ... gets ... old.


Posted by: Outraged | Nov 21 2022 7:50 utc | 80

@Outraged | Nov 21 2022 7:50 utc | 80

Gotta keep your eyes open for this tho: Satch

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 21 2022 8:42 utc | 81

@ waynorinorway | Nov 21 2022 8:42 utc | 81

Wow Magical!

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 21 2022 8:51 utc | 82

Babylon Bee used the word “powerful” in a tweet.
He was therefore being “anti-Semitic”.
Oh. But he wasn’t referring to Jews.
>Doesn’t matter. He was being “anti-semitic like” towards other minorities, so that’s just exactly as bad and the same as anti-Semitic.
Or something.
Here’s the tweet trail.

[no wonder some Senator wants to take twitter away from Elon, because he’s a “threat to democracy”. ]

{And almost all of Elon’s meme tweets have been 4chan memes most from protrumpers. Which is another reason certain groups are incandescent with rage that they no longer own the twitterverse}

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 21 2022 9:32 utc | 83

@ psychohistorian | Nov 20 2022 18:16 utc | 15

The week of September 19, 2022, Dilbert was pulled from an estimated 77 newspapers after recent plotlines in the strip poked fun at woke culture and corporate ESG strategies. Part of the plotline involved an African American character who "identifies as white", and the company management asking him if he could also identify as gay. Said Adams of his strip being pulled, "It was part of a larger overhaul, I believe, of comics, but why they decided what was in and what was out, that's not known to anybody except them, I guess.

Posted by: Ranelagh | Nov 21 2022 10:24 utc | 84

My pet obsession, the USAF RC135W Rivet Joint, JAKE11, is Waaaaay up the Arctic, in international waters(just), just off Murmansk. At 31,500ft.
Imagine. If Russia sent a spy plane to buzz around, 100km off a U$ military installation.

And in Iraq:
“Big explosions are heard in Erbil. Sirens sound at the U.S. Embassy.”

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 21 2022 10:46 utc | 85

@ Melaleuca | Nov 21 2022 10:46 utc | 85

Imagine. If Russia sent a spy plane to buzz around, 100km off a U$ military installation.

See: 'International-Rules-Based-Order', as 'exceptional' privilege of the 'Golden Billion' ... Empire.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 21 2022 10:58 utc | 86

My pet obsession, the USAF RC135W Rivet Joint, JAKE11, is Waaaaay up the Arctic, in international waters(just), just off Murmansk

Well Gary Francis Powers did not fly in international that is progress !

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Nov 21 2022 11:00 utc | 87

1. China must feed more than one-fifth of the world's population with less than one-tenth of the world's arable land. Over the past ten years, China’s grain production has grown continuously. While the grain demand is increasing with the industrialization and urbanization of the country, the resource and environmental constraints are mounting, and the contribution of the agricultural sector to GDP is decreasing. These challenges have affected the stable development of the national economy.

2. China has gone from being the world's largest soybean producer to becoming the world's largest soybean importer. It is trapped in the "soybean game", dominated by four major international grain merchants, and cannot get out. International capital has become the only profitable player in this game.

Posted by: Walt | Nov 21 2022 11:37 utc | 88

@ Paul Greenwood | Nov 21 2022 11:00 utc | 87

Gary Francis Powers was not the only one, yet he merely just had the misfortune of NOT conveniently dying over 'enemy'(USSR) territory whilst spying.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 21 2022 12:05 utc | 89

In a recent speech Emanuel Macron said we need to push for a "single global order".

They aren't even hiding it anymore...

Single global order" and "The Great Reset" are just other words for Global Communism and Global Tyranny.

A braindead global order, as Macron himself put it earlier.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 21 2022 12:29 utc | 90

@waynorinorway | Nov 21 2022 7:30 utc | 79

Here in the north the rising and setting of the sun changes much faster from day to day than at your latitude. My front window
faces east so in the spring and fall the sun appears to rise over the mountains there. But it appears in a noticeably different place
each day, so much so that sometimes I wonder if I’m standing up straight. And I never drink in the morning!
Yes, and the low sun makes it easy to get good North/South & East/West directions. This is very different from places much further south but still in the northern hemisphere that I have traveled to during the northern summer. When your shadow points south in the middle of the day it gets confusing.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 21 2022 12:34 utc | 91

When your shadow points south in the middle of the day it gets confusing.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 21 2022 12:34 utc | 91

Total confusion is when you are half-awake at midnite in June and you get up to pee
and see the sun shining straight in thru the bathroom window that faces north.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 21 2022 13:26 utc | 92

Three killed in Turkey after rockets fired from Syria
Suspected Kurdish fighters fired rockets at the border town of Karkamis after Turkey had hit YPG positions in Syria.
Rockets fired from Syria hit several locations in Karkamis, near the Turkey-Syria border [Anadolu Agency]

U$ activity around Baghdad. Blackhawks …..

Oh and
>Hungarian Air Force Falcon 7X HUAF709 departed Sochi.
Who was meeting who?

Who’s in the air in Europe ?
Doing intensive laps of Ground Zero, Poland:
-Swedish Air Force GIV Korpen SVF645(not yet a NATO member, but, hey, why not)(Signals intel)

-US Army RC-12X Guardrail YANK01
-US Army RC-12X Guardrail YANK02
-USAF KC-135T 580071
-NATO E-3A Sentry NATO01
-US Navy EP-3E Aries II 159893

Funny how activity dropped to almost zero immediately after The Polish Incident.
But they are back in the air, swarming around Lithuania to buzz Kaliningrad and Belarus.
And in Romania.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 21 2022 13:43 utc | 93

Shedding some new light on mind boggling high death toll events that took place in the past.

On Sept 28, 1994, a passenger ferry from Estonia to Sweden sank in the middle of the Baltic Sea, along with 852 souls. But what was officially explained as the tragic result of a defective bow design was, in fact, a massive NATO coverup.
By professional hog groomer ( - 12 min read

On Sept 27, 1994, NATO military assets assembled around Norway for a naval military exercise called Cooperative Venture 94, the first “Partnership for Peace.” The exercises involved 15+ ships and several maritime aircraft prepared to conduct search & rescue operations.
That same day, vehicles and passengers in the Estonian city of Tallinn loaded onto the MS Estonia. They departed at 19:15, bound for Stockholm with 989 people on board, 803 of them passengers. The overnight journey typically took approximately 15 hours.
The ferry was large, with a total length of 157 m and nine decks. The ship’s internal passageways were labyrinthine, with long corridors and stairwells leading to dead ends. The lowermost deck, below the vehicle decks, was occupied by sleeper cabins.
Cars loaded the ship’s vehicle decks via a ramp at the bow. A bow visor concealed the ramp during the voyage. The ramp rotated upwards during loading and lowered and locked into place during transit. The ramp provided the primary watertight seal. The bow visor (highlighted)...Loading ramp, as seen from ...
Initially, sailing conditions were moderate but soon became rougher once the ship reached open seas. Although a storm generated high winds from the southwest (50–60 km/h) and large waves (3–4 meters), conditions were in no way unprecedented for the North Baltic Sea.
At 01:02, passengers were awoken by a loud metallic bang followed by an abrupt heel to starboard. The bang was reported by several survivors, particularly those who were in the sleeper cabins on Deck 1 at the time. One survivor even reported being thrown from their bunk.
The bang was accompanied by scraping, as though the ship was moving through ice. Some witnesses assumed the ship had run aground. Survivors reported that after the sudden heel to starboard, the heel relaxed to a stable “list” (ie. persistent tilt) of ~10°.
Many survivors who were on Deck 1 (below the vehicle deck) during impact reported seeing water coming up from *below* Deck 1. A few minutes later, the list again increased, this time more slowly and steadily over the next 15 minutes.
Between 01:22–01:24, two distress calls were received over the emergency radio frequency by a nearby ferry. On the mayday call, Estonia’s navigator reported the ship had developed a bad list, which he estimated to be 20 - 30° to the starboard side.
However, as the accident unfolds, there are indications the mayday calls are being jammed, as are all radio communications throughout the Northern Baltic Sea. The regional telephone network also inexplicably goes down for an hour at 01:03, just a few minutes after the loud bang.
30 minutes after the loud bang, the ferry’s list had increased to 60-70°, making it easier to walk on walls than the floor. However, the rapidity of the listing and the labyrinthine corridors made escape extremely difficult. The ship’s corridors quickly became death traps.
Due to the rapidity of the sinking, lifeboats aren’t launched. Instead, life rafts are haphazardly thrown into the water, forcing people to jump into the 10°C stormy seas. Those unable to swim to a raft and climb aboard perished. Swedish truck driver Mikael...
The Estonia sinks in less than an hour, a speed that has only ever been seen in ships with hulls torn open by collisions or torpedoes. Yet, despite the battalion of NATO naval forces assembled within an hour’s flight time of the ferry, none assisted with the rescue. (Pg. 55) The Hole: Another ...
8 nearby ships hear Estonia’s mayday, but only 5 redirect to help. Utö, a Finnish radar station 50 km to the north, records ship positions as they head toward Estonia’s last radar reflection. Two unknown vessels 11-13 km east of the Estonia’s position never assist and disappear.
Signals from emergency locator beacons (EPIRBs), which should have deployed automatically, were never received, despite the beacons being checked to be in full working order only a week prior. These buoys relied on direct communication with the Cospas-Sarsat satellite network.
Helicopters don’t arrive until 2 hrs after the distress call is received. 138 people were pulled from life rafts by helicopter and boat, with 1 later dying in hospital. In total, 852 people perished, making it Europe’s deadliest peacetime maritime disaster in the 20th century.
The morning of the sinking, and before any formal investigation, the Swedish PM Bildt ordered the Swedish Maritime Administration (SMA) to investigate bow visors on other ferries because “a construction fault may have caused the accident.” (Pg. 67) The Hole: Another ...
Three surviving crew members were interviewed about what they saw on the morning of the rescue. One of the crew initially said he saw a leaking but closed ramp, but later adjusted his story to claim he didn’t see the ramp directly, only via video monitor.
On the day after the sinking, Russia extended an offer to Sweden’s UD (Ministry for Foreign Affairs) to help rescue any potentially alive passengers trapped in the wreck, who may have been able to survive in air pockets for up to a week after sinking. Sweden never responds.
The Prime Ministers of Estonia, Finland, and Sweden soon met and agreed on a coalition investigation into the sinking, forming the Joint Accident Investigation Commission (JAIC). However, it soon becomes apparent that there is an informational hierarchy and Sweden is at the helm.
Shortly after, the head of the Swedish Maritime Administration (SMA) publicly criticizes Swedish Prime Minister Bildt and is forced to resign. His replacement was Johan Franson, the SMA’s Chief Legal Officer.
A week later, a new Swedish government takes over from Bildt. The new government puts Ines Uusmann, the Minister of Communications, in charge of the investigation. However, it becomes clear that Uusmann relies entirely on Franson for information. Press conference with Minis...
On Sept 30, Finnish vessels conducted a sonar scan of the wreck and found evidence that the ship’s bow visor is still partially attached, or at least resting directly on the wreck's bow. But the bow visor is missing when the first official ROV returns video on October 2. Sept 30 sonar scans of wrec...Sept 30 sonar scans of wrec...Detailed scan of wreck’s bo...Pyramid shaped object at fr...
On October 18, the JAIC announced that it had found the bow visor a mile west of the wreck. The 56-ton visor is raised a month later and brought to shore to be scrutinized by the commission. This scrutiny forms the bulk of the commission’s analysis of why Estonia sank.
The official theory is that locking bolts holding the bow visor in place failed due to wave impacts. But when divers recover a crucial bolt from the bow visor and bring it to the surface for investigation, the Swedish navy commander throws it back into the sea.
But a 2021 review of the bow visor found unequivocally that the extensive damage present on the visor could not have come from mechanical impact forces alone. Instead, the damage must have been, in large part, the result of explosives.

Since the ship came to rest upside down on the very soft silty-clay seafloor only 80 meters below, it was easily accessible. Between 4-10 Dec 1994, advanced divers from Rockwater, a Norwegian dive company, descended to the wreck.
Divers recorded video and dive logs. In total, Rockwater officially logged over 70 hrs of video, which it passed into SMA’s custody, who are overseeing diving operations. However, when the other members of the JAIC requested copies of the videos, huge chunks of time were missing.
These video cuts, according to Franson, were made to protect the dignity of the deceased, but the cuts appear unrelated to areas where bodies might be expected. Additionally, the footage is non-chronological and inexplicably didn’t include a single shot of the starboard hull.
Officially, no Swedish divers ever descended to the wreck. But five years later, a Swedish Navy lieutenant and dive specialist H. Bergmark tells a Der Spiegel journalist that he and 10-13 other persons dove to the Estonia on October 1st, a mere *two days* after the sinking.
Intriguingly, Bergmark suggests that his team found a gash in the hull below the car deck on the starboard side. However, no official reports mentioned any such gash. Nor was this inspection ever officially announced or acknowledged by the commission.
From the outset, family support for raising the wreck along with the remains of their loved ones was nearly unanimous. However, their requests went unanswered by the Swedish govt, which quickly moved to entomb the wreck in concrete like a sarcophagus under Franson’s guidance. Still capture from 2020 Swe...Still capture from 2020 Swe...
This is perplexing, since the cost of raising and salvaging the wreck was estimated to be comparable to constructing the giant underwater sarcophagus, while also being significantly less complex. More perplexing still was why the wreck should be covered at all.
Despite huge public outcry over a plan seen as a massive insult and literal coverup, 1,000s of tons of stone/sand are dumped on the wreck by barge, particularly along the starboard side. After widespread outrage from victims' families, the concrete plan was scuttled in June 1996.
On Feb 23, 1995, Sweden drew up a “gravesite treaty” and had every country bordering the Baltic Sea sign it. Only Germany declined. Despite being in extraterritorial waters, the treaty designates a 2 km square around the site as off-limits, making the site illegal to visit.
This commission was managed by Andi Meister, the Estonian Transport Minister, until 1996 when Meister abruptly resigned. His reason for leaving was that the Swedish side was withholding significant evidence from the other commission members.
After 3 years, the JAIC finally released a formal report on December 5, 1997. The report concluded that the bow visor and ramp were ripped off by large waves due to a faulty locking mechanism, even though surviving crew member testimonies directly contradict this theory.
The report states that the ramp was open, contradicting initial witness statements which saw it closed. It does not explain how the ramp, the suggested entry point for the massive volume of water, was closed when the wreck was surveyed.
The final report also ignores the dozens of testimonies from survivors who reported injury during the sudden impact and the subsequent flooding of Deck 0 and 1 that preceded the severe list, with crew even reporting ‘water to the knees’ in the engine room. Excerpt from a 1999 letter ...Soon after being rescued 3/...
In 1995, the shipyard commissioned a separate inquiry by the German Group of Experts (GGE). While the GGE clearly represented the interests of the shipyard, they were at least able to conduct a thorough investigation with relative independence.
The GGE’s report was finally published online in 2000. While their report took many of the JAIC’s findings at face value, the group uncovered several serious inconsistencies and discrepancies in the official investigation’s conclusions.
The GGE uncovers that Franson, head of the SMA, was questioned about a potential hole in the hull during a meeting with family and journalists in 1996 and admitted, "Yes, there is a hole in the starboard side, but I don't know anything about it - next question please."
The GGE report finds that the compartment on Deck 0, which contained the sauna/swimming pool, flooded very early. This suggests deck 0 took on water from the outside sea, which only a hole in the starboard hull could explain.
A GGE diving & explosives expert reviews the Rockwater video footage and finds that the points at which the bow visor had attached to the ship show several apparent blast holes. The blast holes have outward folded metal petals, a signature of high-energy explosives.
Shockingly, the videos captured via ROV on October 9th also revealed an orange cube attached to the bow near these blast holes. The cube resembles a small plastic explosive-type device. But the cube is nowhere to be seen in the Rockwater videos captured two months later.
In August 2000, Jutta Rabe, a German investigative reporter, and Gregg Bemis Jr, an American underwater equipment specialist, launched an independent expedition of divers and ROVs to the wreck.
The expedition reviews the area along the ship's side where sand has been piling up against the wreck’s hull. But now, 6 years later, part of the sand pile directly adjacent to the hull has subsided, suggesting it was sucked through a hole in the hull.
This expedition takes samples of the petaled metal holes at the bow visor interface noted in the GGE report and submits them for metallurgical testing at 3 separate labs. All 3 labs find that the metallurgical structure shows strong evidence of explosive deformation.
During the expedition, the Swedish coast guard attempts to disrupt the investigation, including boarding their ship and threatening jail time if they ever set foot in Sweden. The expedition also experiences jamming of their GPS, satellite phones, and ship-to-shore communications.
In March 2005, the Swedish minister in charge of MS Estonia matters called for a study into the likely mechanisms by which the ship sank so rapidly. Three years later, the Safety at Sea Ltd. group produced a report relying on a software simulation of the sinking.
The simulation assumes a 2,000-ton deluge of water flooding the car decks via the open ramp, something no witnesses reported. All that water on the car deck would have made the ship top-heavy, causing it to turn turtle rapidly. Instead, the boat slowly leaned to one side.
The sinking simulation also fails to account for trapped air, which, when a ship overturns, has nowhere to escape if the hull remains intact. As such, capsized ships often stay afloat for days. But somehow, the Estonia sank in less than an hour.
Between 2005-2009, the Estonian government commissioned a second official investigation to be headed by Margus Kurm of the Public Prosecutor's Office. The investigation produced a report on February 6, 2009.
The Kurm report concludes that the original JAIC scenario, while plausible, did not exclude other equally likely mechanisms for the sinking and finds significant contradictions. It recommends the wreck's exterior be systematically studied to determine what happened.
So if a simulation showed a sinking sequence entirely at odds with witness testimony and the bow visor never actually fell off but appears to have been covertly removed with explosives *after* it sank, why did the MS Estonia sink?

In August 2019, an expedition led by Swedish documentary filmmaker Henrik Evertsson set out from Rostock, Germany, via a German flagged ship to circumvent the gravesite treaty. The plan is to access the wreck via submersible ROV.
During the dive, the ROV finds previously unrecorded damage: a massive 4-meter gash in the starboard hull below the ship’s waterline. The steel hull on the sides of the large hole is pushed inward as if subjected to a very large but blunt force. ROV video from Evertsson ex...Tear in starboard hull is a...Orientation of starboard hu...Location of tear in starboa...
Additionally, the starboard hull fender was completely torn from either side of the hole. Soon, helicopters and planes from the Finnish coast guard arrived. Despite being in extraterritorial waters, the 2 Swedes aboard the expedition were charged with violating a gravesite.
Since the extremely soft seabed could not have caused the hole, Evertsson’s team commissions a simulation of the impact force required to create the hole. The simulation finds that the observed damage could have been caused by a 1,000-tonne object moving at 4 knots.
Far from being previously invisible, the resting position of the ship has made the entire hull visible since its sinking. As such, the only possible conclusion to be drawn by omitting this enormous gash is that it was deliberately covered up.

But why?
Shortly after the new footage aired, Margus Kurm, who had from 2005-09 been chairman of the committee tasked by the Estonian government to investigate the sinking, makes a statement to the press that, after seeing a video of the damage, he believes Estonia was hit by a submarine.
A sub recklessly surfacing and accidentally striking a civilian ship is not without precedent.

In 2001, a US Navy sub performed a rapid ascent maneuver during demonstrations in Hawaiian waters and struck a Japanese boat filled with high school students, sinking it and killing 9.
On the night of Aug 17, 1993, a French nuclear sub collided with an oil tanker off the coast of France while surfacing, tearing a 5 m hole in the tanker's hull, causing oil to spill into the sea. The tanker’s crew reported never receiving a call from the sub after the collision.
And while all subs have sonar, active sonar alerts enemies to your position. Collision avoidance by passive sonar, which listens for the sound of other craft, could have missed even a large ship like the Estonia in the shallow and stormy Baltic Sea.
Even so, submarine collisions are relatively rare. Was the increased presence of NATO military craft in the Baltic Sea at the time enough to explain this bizarre occurrence? Or is it possible that a NATO sub was near the Estonia for a reason?
Submarines sometimes move through sensitive territory by closely shadowing civilian ships, which can help mask the sound of their propeller. But this still leaves unanswered questions: Why would Sweden go to such extraordinary lengths to cover this up? And whose sub was it?
Given the management of the coverup, a Swedish sub seems more than plausible. But while Sweden is the obvious suspect, it’s hard to comprehend why they would immediately launch into such an expansive and risky cover-up and not simply own up to the mistake.
The only logical reason Sweden would do this is if they were acting on orders from another country whose sub shouldn’t have been there. Interestingly, there were 6 recorded violations of Sweden’s airspace on the night of the sinking, 4 of which remain classified to this day. (Pg. 263) The Hole: Another...(Pg. 149) The Hole: Another...
In 2004, author Drew Wilson submitted a FOIA request for any US govt info on the sinking. Despite no Americans aboard and no official US involvement during any stage of the accident, the NSA refused on the basis of national security.
While the Baltics officially joined NATO in 2004, the process to bring them under NATO control began years earlier. In 1994, as part of the Partnership for Peace (PfP) program, the presidents of Estonia, Lithuania, & Latvia officially declared they were seeking NATO membership.
After the dissolution of the USSR in 1991, NATO began facing a crisis of purpose. In September 1994, Sweden’s Prime Minister Bildt wrote an article for Foreign Affairs in which he framed Russia’s treatment of the Baltics as a litmus test of “Russian legitimacy.”
Given that 1994 was such a pivotal year in setting the trajectory of NATO expansion in Europe, would the process have been jeopardized by a catastrophic demonstration of NATO incompetence involving a US sub and the needless deaths of almost a thousand civilians? Hearing before the subcommi...Hearing before the subcommi...
It’s not hard to see how the sinking of a civilian ferry by a NATO vessel would lead directly to the public questioning the justifications for the significant NATO presence in the Baltic and potentially jeopardize public support for countries pursuing membership.
Now, almost 30 years later, Sweden has been tasked with another high-profile investigation in the Baltic Sea: the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipelines. And just as they were after the sinking of the Estonia, Russia’s requests to participate are being stonewalled.
A janitorial role of mopping up US messes is one Sweden began embracing after Olof Palme, their last truly left-wing Prime Minister, was assassinated 36 years ago. And in this shallow sea filled with secrets, Sweden once again dutifully conspires beneath the waves.
So what actually happened?

What follows is my personal speculation based on the available evidence, the history of NATO cover-ups, and the geopolitical inflection point at which the tragedy occurred.
A surfacing NATO sub mistakenly collides with Estonia at 01:02. The nose of the sub impacts the starboard hull at close to a perpendicular angle. The damage to the sub is survivable and it covertly returns to port. The collision leaves Estonia with a 4 m hole below water level.
The sub notifies NATO’s European command and remains in the vicinity, jamming radio frequencies. This jamming is also likely why Russia never hears the distress call. Finland is contacted and disables phone lines, and NATO begins contingency planning.
A cover story involving the bow visor is hatched and disseminated to the Swedish Prime Minister within hours. This theory is pushed onto key witnesses, and the media faithfully runs with the bow visor explanation before the official investigation has even begun.
In the 3 days after the sinking prior to the start of the official investigation, Swedish divers covertly descend to the wreck to stage the bow visor separation. With the help of explosive charges, the bow visor is detached. In the rush to complete, a charge is left behind.
The rapidly evolving story soon requires that the bow visor have fallen from the ship a substantial time before it sank. Therefore, the bow visor is covertly moved again and deposited a distance away from the wreck prior to the Rockwater investigation.
NATO deputizes Sweden to head the investigation. The refusal to raise the wreck, the proposal to encase the wreck in concrete, and the dumping of gravel are all steps taken to prevent the discovery of the sub collision and the explosive scars from the bow visor removal.
The scale and coordination of the coverup suggests it was a US sub. NATO could weather incompetence by one of their members or close allies, but it’s hard to picture how the resulting global PR nightmare would play out if a US sub 4,000 miles from US shores were responsible.
Despite the horror of hundreds of people who needlessly lost their lives through a delayed rescue response in service of a cover-up, there may be an even more unsettling part of this whole story: a group of confirmed survivors who suddenly disappeared or turned up dead. Some of the bodies recovere...

In the immediate aftermath of Estonia’s sinking, relatives began scrambling for news of their loved ones aboard the ship.

One person who understandably receives particular media attention is Estonia’s second in command, Captain Avo Piht.
On the morning of Sept 28th, Captain Moik, a friend of both Estonia’s captains, called Piht’s wife from Rostock to tell her that he and multiple colleagues had seen Piht on a German TV channel as he was being transferred from the ambulance to the hospital.
The 6PM news also reports that Piht is amongst the survivors.

Piht’s name then appears on multiple official lists issued by the Port of Tallinn, the Finnish embassy at Tallinn, Tallinn City Hall, and the Baltic News Service.

However, later that day, his name is not on the list issued by the Turku police. No explanation is given. In the first list of surviv...The initial list of those w...
Estonian radio station Kuku broadcasts an interview with a Swedish helicopter crew member who says that he saved Piht.

When Spiegel TV's Jutta Rabe later tried to obtain the interview tape, the station manager tells her that Estonian police have already confiscated it.
Additional witnesses involved in the immediate disaster response claim to have seen Piht in person, including a doctor in Turku. Enno Tammer (T) talks to ca...
Two days later, Reuters interviews Bengt-Erik Stenmark, safety chief of the SMA, who also says he had been in contact with Piht after the accident. Stenmark is fired shortly after but never retracts his statement.
On Oct 7, 1994 Interpol issues a message looking for Piht, reiterating that many witnesses had seen him. But Piht is never seen again. “Summary of the case: Avo P...
Piht seemingly disappeared after he reached the Turku University Central Hospital. Attempts by family and friends to locate the video tape of the German news report in which Piht was seen were unsuccessful.

Years later, a clip is uncovered appearing to show Piht in an ambulance.
More disturbingly, twin sisters (Hannely & Hanka-Hannika Veide), reportedly rescued from the same raft as Piht, also go missing. On Sept 29th, their brother, having seen on the news that his sisters are alive at Stockholm’s Huddinge hospital, calls his parents.
When the parents arrive at Huddinge to look for their daughters they are told that their daughters have drowned. Inexplicably, one twin’s name was recorded on the survivor list as “Anne” Veide, a nickname she went by that few others knew.
In total, 11 people initially confirmed as survivors turned up drowned days later or were never seen again. Several were listed with full names/DOBs, information other survivors have said was verified multiple times by rescue workers and medical staff before being added to lists.
Even heroic rescue work gets retracted.

Sailor Kenneth Svensson, who descended via helicopter to retrieve 9 survivors from the stormy sea and was awarded a medal for his efforts, eventually has his rescue total whittled down to 1 or 2 in the JAIC’s final report.
But without question, the most disturbing non-surviving survivor story is Kalev Vahtras, the ship’s store assistant.

The ship’s watchman, who was in the same ward in Turku hospital, confirmed that Vahtras had escaped the shipwreck easily, was in perfect condition & high-spirits.
Later in the day, Vahtras’ ward mate returned to find his bed gone and was told that he had been transferred.

His body was later reported washed up on the coast of Finland. When the coffin was opened in Estonia, his body had apparent signs of violence.
As a result of the retractions, families are doubly traumatized, while many more are left bewildered.

Did these surviving crew members pose a threat to the fraudulent bow visor theory and, as a result, become the final victims of one of the biggest cover-ups in recent history?
The flight records following the disaster may hold a clue.

On 28 September 1994 an empty Gulfstream 4 landed at Stockholm’s Arlanda at 22:56 and departed the next day with five passengers at 17:13 to Bangor, Maine.

Could the disappeared Estonians have been on board?

Posted by: xor | Nov 21 2022 13:53 utc | 94

Posted by: xor | Nov 21 2022 13:53 utc | 94

There is a good Estonian produced document on the ship Estonia. It's been a while, but in it an eye (or ear) witness tells he heard some kind of ramming/thumping noise on the side of the ship. It also takes into account the hole in starboard side of ship. The Swedish navy/authorities who led the investigation were in a hurry to dump a large amount of sand on the wreck, but it never occurred before they discovered the hole on the hull. And they were put in a boiling pot of water for their actions.

They speculate that it might have been covertly carrying some Soviet nuclear material to Sweden, obtained in immediate aftermath when everything was still for sale on the black market. To be honest, UK or USA has no qualms on sinking passenger liners in Europe if they somehow see it serving some of their interests.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 21 2022 14:12 utc | 95

Only on Moon of Alabama is "Newsweek" the source to lend support to an evil regime that is occupying Iran and killing Iranians.

All those statements were in fact made by members of parliament. In IR state media.

Was your father & mutti Nazis, Bernhard? If not, maybe there is something to the German psyche that makes you all devoted fans of delusional dictators and "1000 year" regimes.

Yes, they actually said "IR will last for 1000 years". Now learn Persian, Nazi spawn, and google it.

Posted by: STFUNaziJungen | Nov 21 2022 14:13 utc | 96

@xor | Nov 21 2022 13:53 utc | 94

Deeply troubling story. Thank you for sharing that. I remember that 'accident' and the 'visor' issues. I have been unaware of the other things you mention, and I suspect you are spot on it being a submarine.

Thank you again.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 21 2022 14:35 utc | 97

"..Single global order" and "The Great Reset" are just other words for Global Communism and Global Tyranny..." unimperator@90

Sure it is. The leaders of the capitalist class and their ideologues gather together regularly in order to advance the cause of socialism.
Why did they spend more than a century fighting every trace of it and, in the process, killing tens of millions of people engaged in anti-imperialist, nationalist and socialist struggles?

Simple: the Davos people didn't want to share the credit of introducing communism. They wanted and still want to do it themselves , so that future generations will say" Now that we live in peace and harmony in a society in which the economy is democratically governed and all are equal in their claims on society's wealth, it is incumbent on us that we recognise that all that we cherish was brought to us by capitalist oligarchs, who spent their lives stealing money from others so that they could give it away."

The "Great Reset" has been going on for fifty years. It is otherwise known as neo-liberalism. Or Thatcherism. It has systematically privatised socialised services and utilities and turned them into 'profit centres' for capitalists. It has demolished regulations protecting working people from super exploitation. It has introduced regimes of precarity and reduced the vestiges of social security to shadows. It has enormously increased inequality in society. It has commercialised educational systems, putting learning beyond the reach of all but the wealthy or those loyal to the system. It has replaced progressive taxation with regressive flat taxes and community charges. It has demolished the Trade Union movement by making acts of solidarity illegal and employing the tyrannical power of the state to suppress resistance. It has squeezed the "Justice system" back into being naked instruments of class rule. It has greatly reduced 'Free Speech' while monitoring all communications between citizens. It has imprisoned journalists and banned publications.

What else do the capitalists need to reset? They are in complete control and most of their "opponents" are not actually opposed to them at all but their most enthusiastic supporters.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 21 2022 15:35 utc | 98

On the power of resonance...

Could it be Georgia Meloni got the message from the likes of Eduardo Galeano? Somehow? Thru the ether? or her speech writers? Watch her delivery:

resonance: 1.the condition in which an object or system is subjected to an oscillating force having a frequency close to its own natural frequency. 2.largest possible response to an applied oscillating signal, especially when its inductive and its capacitative reactances are balanced. 3. etc.

Posted by: chu teh | Nov 21 2022 15:40 utc | 99

@ Ranelagh | Nov 21 2022 10:24 utc | 84 with the Scott Adams follow up....thanks

Yeah, I was enjoying the comics he was doing about Woke shit. The black guy identifying as white was good. And then pointy ears said that to be gay the black guy just had to wear better shirts....GRIN

@ chu teh | Nov 21 2022 15:40 utc | 99 with the twitter link to Georgia Meloni....THANKS!
It is nice to see someone talking the anti-colonial talk at her level.

GO Georgia Meloni!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 21 2022 16:05 utc | 100

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