Another Ukrainian Missile Stunt
A factual assessment:
OSINTtechnical @Osinttechnical - 19:41 UTC · Nov 15, 2022The missile(s) that impacted Polish territory near the Ukrainian border very much looks like a 5V55K from the S-300.
The 5V55K is an old Soviet produced missile (1978/82) for the S-300 air defense system that the Ukraine is using against Russian cruise missiles. Its nominal range in air defense mode is 75 kilometer. If it fails to hit its target the debris is likely to fall at somewhat around that range. Przewodow in Poland (50.47099 lat, 23.93432 lon) where the missile landed, is some 70 kilometer northward of Lviv in Ukraine.
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But World War III mongers don't care about facts:
Dmytro Kuleba @DmytroKuleba - 21:35 UTC · Nov 15, 2022
Ukraine government officialRussia now promotes a conspiracy theory that it was allegedly a missile of Ukrainian air defense that fell on the Polish theory. Which is not true. No one should buy Russian propaganda or amplify its messages. This lesson should have been long learnt since the downing of #MH17.
"Russia promotes a conspiracy theory ..."
Biden: 'Unlikely' missile that hit Poland fired from Russia - AP - 23:44 UTC Nov 15, 2022
NUSA DUA, Indonesia (AP) — President Joe Biden said Wednesday it was “unlikely” that a missile that killed two in NATO-ally Poland was fired from Russia, but he pledged support for Poland's investigation into what it had called a “Russian-made” missile.
It is good that no one of importance fell for this stunt.
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Posted by b on November 16, 2022 at 8:31 UTC | Permalink
next page »Earlier AP had reported that an american intel official, said that it was a russian missile.
Hours later, AP had to walk back.
This has to be one the worst humilliations for the MSM.
Even to report false flags, at least they could show some professionalism....
Posted by: Hugo | Nov 16 2022 8:40 utc | 2
Whenever has the British press ever cared about the truth or even be prepared to carry a view at odds with the government line? Whatever real journalists exist, they are simply “cancelled” or removed.
The UK public, as a whole, are fed garbage non-stop on television, radio and the press. So long as they can watch the football, z-list “celebrities” either dancing together or competing as to who gets to eat a kangaroo’s arsehole in a fake Aussie jungle, they don’t know or care how much they’re lied to.
Posted by: Vragtes | Nov 16 2022 8:46 utc | 3
This is how facts are manufactured in a propagandized society: Unknown fact -> repetition -> familiarity -> processing fluency -> Known true fact.
It DOES NOT matter if the known fact is really true or false. What matters is that the propagandized ppl think the fact is true. Unfortunately, the human brain uses sub-concious heuristics to come to conclusions to be able to process all incoming information. This is abused by all the evil doers in the world.
Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Nov 16 2022 8:48 utc | 4
Could this be the actual scheme, contest the Russian no-fly zone? The first step in a new narrative, get it in the public mind, create the reflection of "public support" in the msm, then normalize it. You know NATO wants it and needs it to escalate further. If this turd of a story picks up instead of dying out we'll know. From TG Victor, vicktop55:
The head of the Finnish Foreign Ministry announced the possibility of closing the airspace of Ukraine after the state of emergency in Poland.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 16 2022 9:02 utc | 5
I don't think much will come of this. However, such a major beat up will undermine the pro-NATO propaganda machine and that is to be welcomed.
Posted by: Barry | Nov 16 2022 9:06 utc | 6
When Ukraine did ns2 they blamed Russia but since blaming Russia for this one will lead to direct engagement,the powers that be r fingering the real culprit, but since Ukraine still has great value as a proxy they r saying Ukraine attack was just a actually an attempt to take down Russian missiles.
Ofcourse it is possible that was the case or it can also be an attempt by Ukraine to drag nato in.
Posted by: A.z | Nov 16 2022 9:08 utc | 7
Dumb Poles published pics of the missile debris which really messed up the propaganda aspect.
Poles? certainly Ukrainians and Brits all trying to draw US into a direct war with Russia.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 16 2022 9:14 utc | 8
I think you've nailed this on, it was either a staged event in the hope of triggering Article 5 or a missile than went astray.
For as we all know, Russia was really desperate to blow up an old tractor and trailer in Poland.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 16 2022 9:18 utc | 10
This article by Wolfgang Streeck is nothing short of magisterial;
https://newleftreview.org/sidecar/posts/getting-closer
Posted by: Moaobserver | Nov 16 2022 9:23 utc | 11
The fact that the first (anti-Russian) reports stated 'Russian manufactured missile' means that they knew it was a Soviet produced S300 right away but wanted to spin the news to cast blame on the Russians through the half-truth that the missile was made in Russia, even though its Ukraine that's using it.
Therefore its safe to conclude that everyone important knew what happened straight away, and the media circus is just a political show.
Posted by: V87 | Nov 16 2022 9:28 utc | 12
To the Daily Mail and Telegraph it sudddenly becomes very important where the missile was manufactured, nevermind who fired it. I always think of an apocryphal Star Trek story where they thought look, these lines are ridiculous and we need someone who will bring them convincingly and with gravitas. We need a Brit. Enter Patrick Stewart.
Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Nov 16 2022 9:32 utc | 13
Lithuanian politicians and some other subpar intellectuals are talking about "Nato shutting down air space over Ukraine".
Well, they have been trying to do that all along, but the fact is PAC-3, Nasams etc. are point defense systems and may not be on par even with the old S-300 5V55 system. Targets in Ukraine are getting hit everywhere, even in the west, again and again.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 16 2022 9:32 utc | 14
The head of the Finnish Foreign Ministry announced the possibility of closing the airspace of Ukraine after the state of emergency in Poland.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 16 2022 9:02 utc | 5
What is Finland?
Posted by: rk | Nov 16 2022 9:35 utc | 15
I feel a nuclear false flag attack is now more likely than ever. The nazis desperately want a NATO involvement. With Surovikin going after their infrastructure in a big way, Bidet embroiled in the Fried Bankman scam, and winter already beginning, this is probably their only hope now the S 300 false flag failed.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 16 2022 9:37 utc | 17
@12
Are we even sure it was made in Russia? For all we know it could have been made in one of the most industrialised SSRs in the Soviet Union, that is, Ukraine.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 16 2022 9:39 utc | 19
Reuters: Russia Says Its Strikes in Ukraine Were No Closer Than 35km to Polish Border
A NATO source said U.S President Joe Biden had informed G7 and NATO partners that the blast in POland had been caused by a Ukrainian air defence missile.
"Shit happens"
But what was the probability of that tractor / granary store on the ground being hit by a wayward SAM missile when there's a lot of open space there?
Posted by: Iain | Nov 16 2022 9:43 utc | 21
One might also read this as warning from NATO. Like, "this time, we will not do anything, but we can produce that any time again and spin it the other way".
Posted by: Grasdackel | Nov 16 2022 9:45 utc | 22
Posted by: Grasdackel | Nov 16 2022 9:45 utc | 22
Well, it's really nothing new. They can do it at any moment in time.
If USA thinks they can win and wants to go and try save their faltering vassal with "coalition of the willing" they will just manufacture another gulf of Tonkin incident and go for it. They could have used this one, but seemed to have blinked.
But the fact is, Polish military is already now in Ukraine and doing more of the heavy lifting as Ukraine army is on thin layers. The people willing to go die for a third world dump like Ukraine with a scam clown pretending to be a president, is rather limited to eastern Europe.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 16 2022 9:51 utc | 24
The brilliance of the war in Ukraine, from the NATO perspective, is that it's essentially Russia contra Russia (it's hard to find a country more ethnically Russian than Ukraine that isn't Russia itself). The second "best" thing other than civil war in Russia and perhaps less dangerous overall. In any case, Russia's alter ego, Ukraine, seems to have bombed Poland. It's the closet thing to having the Russia's do it and will definitely not increase love for the Russians in Polonia.
Posted by: Ludovic | Nov 16 2022 9:56 utc | 25
What is Finland?
Posted by: rk | Nov 16 2022 9:35 utc | 15
I'll take "a nation that will never be part of NATO" for $200, Alex.
Posted by: Michigan Dude | Nov 16 2022 10:08 utc | 26
How long and to what extent will anyone point out that ''Russian-made'' means "Soviet-made"?
After all if "Russian-made" is the line then, f**king most of what's been emptied out old WarPac stockpiles in Eastern Europe is "Russian-made".
Just how dumb do they think their non-bot & echo-chamber audience, much less the rest of the world to be?
Posted by: Urban Fox | Nov 16 2022 10:18 utc | 27
Tuyzentfloot @ 13
I always think of an apocryphal Star Trek story where they thought look, these lines are ridiculous and we need someone who will bring them convincingly and with gravitas. We need a Brit. Enter Patrick Stewart.
That's the best nutshell review of ST TNG and Patrick Stewart you could ask for. I can be pretty dense especially when something's right in front of me but now I understand why every sword and sandal, fantasy and scifi movie has Brits all over it. It's the only way to get the trite dialog to work.
Problem with the war effort is Johnson, Truss, and Sunak are no Shakespearean Patrick Stewarts the cornball comic book dialog is being delivered by B-movie actors. This vaunted blockbuster movie is gonna flop.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 16 2022 10:18 utc | 28
rk | Nov 16 2022 9:35 utc | 15
They produce a good vodka brand, one hears.
Posted by: catskill | Nov 16 2022 10:23 utc | 29
From Boris Johnson talking Zelensky out of any peace agreements to playing a leading role in nordstream to the sea drone attack a few weeks ago and now to this 'Russian missiles' hit Poland, (the quotes around Russian missiles being too small to be conspicuous); why is Britian out doing the US deep state in the contest for who wants World War 3 the most ??
Tom Luongo in Gonzalo Lira's roundtable on Nov 3 has an interesting take that the UK may not be the USA's pet mongrel on a leash as once thought. UK is still attempting to play the role of the colonizer of the US and wants to take back control.
That roundtable on youtube/rumble makes interesting arguments and worth a watch.
Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Nov 16 2022 10:26 utc | 30
Poland Blast Caused by Missile Fired by Ukrainian Forces at Incoming Russian Missile - AP
By Reuters
Nov. 16, 2022
U.S. News & World Report
(Reuters) Initial findings suggest that the missile that hit Poland was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile, Associated Press reported on Wednesday, citing U.S. officials.
US News and World Report citing Reuters citing AP citing US officials.
Posted by: John Kennard | Nov 16 2022 10:26 utc | 31
When Ukraine did ns2 they blamed Russia
Posted by: A.z | Nov 16 2022 9:08 utc | 7
You believe this ??
Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 16 2022 10:30 utc | 32
you can tell this was an unplanned accident and not a planned false flag because otherwise you would have seen that same supposedly pregnant lady carted around all over the place within seconds
Posted by: leaf | Nov 16 2022 10:33 utc | 33
@LYFH 28
Apart from plummy Oxford accents , Oxford has built a Muslim Brotherhood college purely for training Muslim government stooges to shoe-horn into power round the world. Makes sense to combine the two.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 16 2022 10:39 utc | 34
The British Press is a joke. No honour, no shame. The frustration of the British establishment is understandable though. The UK has been pushed to the margin. So clumsy acts of terrorism and pathetic propaganda remain the only weapons in its arsenal.
Posted by: Steve | Nov 16 2022 10:41 utc | 35
Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 16 2022 9:39 utc | 19
“………could have been made in one of the most industrialised SSRs in the Soviet Union, that is, Ukraine.
Was about to make the same comment.
Manufactured in that part of industrialised Ukraine…that is (SMO,2022) Russia….
Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 16 2022 10:50 utc | 36
Iain | Nov 16 2022 9:43 utc | 21
“………what was the probability of that tractor / granary store on the ground being hit by a wayward SAM missile when there's a lot of open space there?”
And
What was a Polish farmer doing out on his tractor late at night in almost winter?
But what intrigues me waaaaaaaay more is the amazing coincidental location of USAF RC135W Rivet Joint JAKE11.
Surveillance drones surveil the Baltic-Poland-Romanian-Black Sea route 24/7 … so JAKE in the air isn’t noteworthy.
But JAKE was hovering above and *pretty damn close* to the impact site at the time. At 33,000ft.
Exactly how US assets were over the NS2 pipeline when it blew.
Anything about this showing on telegram?
Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 16 2022 11:02 utc | 37
Thanks to Moaobserver (post #11) for posting the link to Wolgang Streck's article from New Left Review, 'Getting closer'. I agree with Moa's assessment of it as 'magisterial'. The article describes Germany's media and political leadership attitudes towards Russia and how they could lead us to blunder into nuclear war.
Posted by: B. Wildered | Nov 16 2022 11:03 utc | 38
Most interesting.
On one hand, the despicable genocidal country 404 lied about Snake Island. Lied about the fictional "Ghost of Kiev". Lied about battlefield successes 99 times out of 100. Lied about all military casualties since the beginning. The list of lies told is a very long one. A list of truths told by country 404. Can be counted on the fingers of one hand. With plenty of spare fingers left over.
All western media is now under the strict direct control of the government-appointed censor. Since February 24th.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has time to get its pants on. - Winston Churchill.
Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Nov 16 2022 11:09 utc | 39
I am actually somewhat relieved that the US walked this back so soon. It was obvious from the beginning it was an S-300 that went awry. It means the US really doesn't want to go to war with Russia over Ukraine as this was the perfect false flag to launch that effort. I am interpreting this to mean everything that the US has done that appears threatening was all bluster. As usual for all US allies goaded into some kind of war, Ukraine will be hung out to dry and left to their own resources. At the moment Ukraine serves to be a useful money laundering scheme that is becoming untenable. Once its utility to try and deplete Russia economically and militarily and/or force an internal coup has proven useless they will move on China instead thinking it is easier to manage. These neocons really appear to be that delusional.
Of course, it could also be the US just isn't ready yet to move into Ukraine so we may see another set of FF actions later when they are ready. In the meantime we can enjoy the relative peace.
Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Nov 16 2022 11:13 utc | 40
@LightYearsFromHome 28
I like both TNG and british acting btw, I just don't want it to inspire outrageous behaviour in press and politics.
Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Nov 16 2022 11:19 utc | 41
Implication of strike on Poland, plans to make use of a false flag attack was ready. The barrage of RAF rockets yesterday afternoon was the cover needed.
Media frenzy called for invoking NATO Article 5 all over the place … Zelensky leading the attack. UA must have gone nuts over Gen. Milley opinion.
“Biden administration working to clean up Milley remarks on Ukraine diplomacy”
The Ukraine had a shopping list ready for modern NATO weaponry including F-16s and more anti-Missile systems …
Poland a bit later called for procedure emergency Art. 4 consultation.
Stream TVP Poland
Translation:
There was an explosion in the Hrubieszów district, which led to the death of two Polish citizens, a government spokesman confirmed on Tuesday evening, referring to the explosion in Przewodów. The head of the National Security Bureau, Jacek Siewiera, informed that Andrzej Duda had spoken with the secretary general of the North Atlantic Alliance and a verification had been undertaken as to whether Art. 4 NATO. At the same time, it was reported that Poland is increasing the combat readiness of some units in the country.
Some early reporting disappeared in a matter of a few hours.
In the meantime a frenzy of statements from the most aggressive NATO countries … not by accident … following NATO playbook towards all-out war to destroy Russia … historic grievances.
FM Dimitro Kuleba:Ukraine reaffirms its full solidarity with Poland and stands ready to provide any necessary support. Collective response to Russian actions must be tough and principled. Among immediate actions: a NATO summit with Ukraine’s participation to craft further joint actions...
...which will force Russia to change its course on escalation, providing Ukraine with modern aircraft such as F-15 and F-16, as well as air defense systems, so that we can intercept any Russian missiles. Today, protecting Ukraine’s skies means protecting NATO
Washington DC readies further advanced arms shipments by Congress in bipartisan support allocation another $37bn … 🇺🇦 #WeAreNato
Cet incident soulève de nombreuses questions.
En rappel, les tirs de missiles russes se font généralement depuis quatre directions.
1) Depuis le territoire Biélorusse donc du Nord vers le Sud ou du Nord-Est vers le Sud-Ouest.
2) Depuis le territoire russe ou la mer d'Azov donc de l'est vers l'Ouest
3) Depuis la Mer Caspienne donc du Sud-Est vers le Nord-Ouest
4) Depuis la Mer Noire donc du Sud vers le Nord.
La Russie ne peut pas tirer sur l'Ukraine depuis l'Ouest car cela supposerait qu'elle survolerait le territoire d'un pays de l'OTAN.
Pourquoi donc la défense aérienne ukrainienne tirerait vers l'Ouest pour arrêter un missile russe ?
De plus, malgré tout l'espace vide dans la région de la frontière polonaise, il a fallu que ces tirs "perdus" tombent comme par hasard sur une des rares localisations habitées et fasse des victimes.
Cela, associé à la sortie du ministre des affaires étrangères ukrainien qui accuse la Russie contre tout bon sens, fait plutôt penser à une provocation délibérée de l'Ukraine.
On dirait bien que quelqu'un à Kiev a pensé que faire intervenir l'OTAN en application de l'article 5 serait une bonne idée.
This incident raises many questions.
As a reminder, Russian missile launches are usually from four directions.
1) From the territory of Belarus, i.e. from North to South or from North-East to South-West.
2) From Russian territory or the Sea of Azov so from east to west
3) From the Caspian Sea so from the southeast to the northwest
4) From the Black Sea so from South to North.
Russia cannot fire on Ukraine from the West because that would mean it would fly over the territory of a NATO country. So why would Ukrainian air defense fire west to stop a Russian missile?
Moreover, despite all the empty space in the Polish border area, it was necessary that these "lost" shots fell as if by chance on one of the few inhabited locations and cause casualties.
This, coupled with the exit of the Ukrainian foreign minister who accuses Russia against all common sense, is rather reminiscent of a deliberate provocation by Ukraine.
It seems that someone in Kiev thought that involving NATO under Article 5 would be a good idea.
Posted by: UncleTom | Nov 16 2022 11:41 utc | 43
Old Microbiologist | Nov 16 2022 11:13 utc | 40
That is very much my view of the situation.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 16 2022 11:49 utc | 44
Old Microbiologist @ 40
I am actually somewhat relieved that the US walked this back so soon.
Seems the west is not all on the same wavelength, Ukraine, Poland, UK, Germany, France, USA all pulling in different directions, maybe ever more so. Seems Russian leadership and military is not all on the same wavelength internally with itself but coming together. For now we are still witnessing a broad clusterfuck of a puzzle with no box cover, laying the pieces out trying to determine if it's haystacks in a field or a vase of sunflowers. Maybe it's a Jackson Pollock and will be a bitch until the very last piece.
It's fun and why I post here, but until both sides accrete and figure out what they are doing we never will. If it goes to WW3 that should be more focused than hybrid war, right? Yikes!
Right now a fly on the wall in either the Pentagon or the Kremlin will fly straight out the window thinking, "Boy, I'm lucky to be out of there!"
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 16 2022 11:49 utc | 45
Zelenscam's reaction and appeal to launch WW3, in the full knowledge it was his own AD missile that murdered 2 innocent Poles, is further proof this idiot will not breathe for much longer once his usefulness has finally run its course.
Posted by: Et Tu | Nov 16 2022 11:51 utc | 46
"Implication of strike on Poland, plans to make use of a false flag attack was ready. The barrage of RAF rockets yesterday afternoon was the cover needed."
Posted by: Oui | Nov 16 2022 11:32 utc | 42
I have to agree. Air defense missiles are generally fired toward the incoming object, not away from the incoming object. This very much looks like yet another false flag operation. Gross incompetence would be the only plausible innocent explanation that would make sense, and it doesn't look like that happened here.
Posted by: First Time Poster | Nov 16 2022 11:52 utc | 47
Posted by: Vragtes | Nov 16 2022 8:46 utc | 3
Not just UK but Germany with Bildzeitung. It is sad but in 1970s people were more aware and frankly better educated even without the credentials. 1970s seem like a golden age where there was a widespread sense of right and wrong and understanding. The expansion of Higher Indoctrination ("Education") has resulted in people who can only Groupthink.
Newspapers died with literacy and the day they were able to put colour pictures in the main body of the paper........sensation replaced fact. Just as the exploitation of female hysteria has supplant rationality in swaying of mass opinion.
The West is in cultural disintegration - it is like that movie "Days of the Locust" (1975) - or even "Lord of the Flies"
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Nov 16 2022 11:57 utc | 48
So Zato media now invented a theory that Ukraine fired the missile(s) at an incoming Russian missile.
Well, look at the map. Why would a Russian missile be incoming from North of Lvov? This is getting more stupid by the minute. And cokehead-in-chief and PM Dmitro Kuleba were just recently still screaming Russian disinformation and article 5. Yeah, be careful what you wish for.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 16 2022 12:02 utc | 49
Still only the one photo of a tipped over grain wagon which had been driving over a series of large timbers.
There was no missile.
It was a grain dust explosion as the wagon was being emptied at the grain elevator.
I do like B's map though.
Posted by: Fiji refugee | Nov 16 2022 12:03 utc | 50
Seems Russian leadership and military is not all on the same wavelength internally with itself
I disagree and base my assertions on the same ignorance of the facts that underlie your presumptions !
STAVKA confines decision-making to a small defined group as it did under Tsars and under Stalin.
Russia has finally appointed an Overall Command Structure under Surovikin instead of competing generals pursuing advances without rearguard strength...........hence tactical rebalancing.......or as Napoleon said "reculer pour mieux sauter"
War is heuristic and Zelensky is in a trap - he is becoming dangerously unhinged and US-UK may have his guards eliminate him. Russia is becoming ever more powerful and Europe significantly weaker. In history Russia is strong when Germany is weak and vice-versa.
Without Hitler it is likely the USSR would have collapsed - but the technology Stalin acquired in defeating Germany kept the Soviet (and US) systems running for a few more decades until technologies changed from hardware to software
Zelensky has destroyed Ukraine once the richest part of USSR with lots of former German factories looted from Carl Zeiss etc - now it is going to be nothing more than the Borderlands of Russia and a buffer zone - a DMZ
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Nov 16 2022 12:05 utc | 51
''It is good that no one of importance fell for this stunt.'' --b.
Um, still waiting for Cdn. PM Justin Trudeau to complete his cogitation and weigh in with his (Freeland's) opinion.
Posted by: piggly | Nov 16 2022 12:09 utc | 52
⚡🇵🇱 Nothing indicates missile that fell on East Poland yesterday was an attack on country - Polish President Andrej DudaDuda also says it is highly probable missile was launched by Ukrainian forces in attempt to intercept Russian missile.
UPDATE:🗣 NATO meeting on missile that fell in Poland NOT taking place under Article 4 of NATO charter - German government.
Article 4 states members will consult together whenever territorial integrity, political independence or security of member state is threatened.
https://t.me/IntelRepublic/8682
Posted by: Down South | Nov 16 2022 12:10 utc | 53
Dutch news:
"No matter where the missile that hit Poland on Tuesday came from, “this would not have happened without Russia’s horrific attacks against Ukraine,” Prime Minister Mark Rutte said on Wednesday morning after meeting with the G7 and NATO members present at the G20 summit in Bali. “We continue to support Ukraine in its defense against Russian aggression.”
The missile hit the east of Poland, near the Ukrainian border, killing at least two people. Poland is investigating. Polish President Andrzej Duda said that the missile was “most probably” Russian-made, but its origins have yet to be verified...".
Any comment is superfluous.
Posted by: JB | Nov 16 2022 12:14 utc | 54
Paul Greenwood @ 48
The West is in cultural disintegration - it is like that movie "Days of the Locust" (1975) - or even "Lord of the Flies"
Good references. All the signs of madness are there, like Hitler towards the end the USA sees enemies everywhere - Germany, Turkiye, India, Africa, Saudi Arabia - if you shoot them all you get the guilty.
There's no salvaging madness, it will be a rough road, 10-20ys, but it will end like Hitler's last days in the bunker.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 16 2022 12:16 utc | 55
@54
Rutte does the same as Duda did. Blame Russia anyway.
Variation on Rutte: ""No matter where the missile that hit Poland on Tuesday came from, this would not have happened without the 2014 US and EU orchestrated coup".
Posted by: Nutter | Nov 16 2022 12:23 utc | 56
Seems they are using the “missile incident” to move more AD East. Might be coincidental but given what the Belarusian KGB notes below ……….
🇷🇺🇺🇸🇪🇺🇬🇧🇵🇱🇺🇦"NATO is moving more air defense systems to the Eastern flankNATO maintains lines of communication with Russia, but does not disclose details on the background of the incident in Poland"-Stoltenberg
https://t.me/azmilitary11/28737
🇧🇾⚡ The KGB of Belarus sees a threat of intervention from the territory of the Baltic States, Poland and Ukraine
🇧🇾 Belarusian border committee said that Kiev mined the border area with the republic and blew up almost all bridges in the direction of Belarusian Gomel and Mozyr
https://t.me/intelslava/41196
Posted by: Down South | Nov 16 2022 12:25 utc | 57
UncleTom @43: "Russia cannot fire on Ukraine from the West because that would mean it would fly over the territory of a NATO country. So why would Ukrainian air defense fire west to stop a Russian missile?"
I've been scratching my head over this as well. It makes no sense. Did the 5V55K missile reverse course and go off exploring on its own after missing its target? If so then that would cut into its 75km range in a very big way, meaning it would have had to have been launched from even closer to the Polish border.
This makes the "air defense accident" harder to swallow. The US quickly offered up that explanation when it normally is inclined to blame Russia no matter how ludicrous a fairy tale is required to cast blame that way raises suspicions itself. The US efforts to wrap up the matter as an accident suggests there is something else they are trying to hide.
Top this off with the fact that the Ukraine is a shytehole failed state nominally run by Nazi lunatics and the possibility that this was a deliberate provocation by the Nazis to pull more NATO troops into the meat grinder starts looking more probable than the "accident" narrative. If the ukropian version of ISIS that America backs in this fight really did something this stupid then the Empire would try to cover for them before people started looking too closely at the event.
But then again, Russian cruise missile have really long range. Maybe one took the scenic route to Lvov?
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 16 2022 12:28 utc | 58
Hey, for all those directional challenged people, Russian missiles are manoeuvrable, ie. they don't fly in straight lines, mind you when hunting with a S300, one always looks behind ones target......just in case there is something behind it.....damn those Reds Under The Bed.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 16 2022 12:34 utc | 59
Ukrainian FM Kuleba:
"...providing Ukraine with modern aircraft such as F-15 and F-16, as well as air defense systems, so that we can intercept any Russian missiles. Today, protecting Ukraine’s skies means protecting NATO."
That guy is so stupid that it hurts.
F-15 and F-16 are ancient hardware that are very expensive to maintain and to fly and pretty much useless as a ground support.
While at it, he should have asked for F-22 or even better F-35 :)
There is no real protection against modern missiles that West can offer.
Saturate the protective areas with various AA systems, and we will end up with AA rockets falling all over cities, borderlands and destroying each other. As it was seen yesterday.
NATO skies are pretty much unprotected, but they are thoroughly tracked. And this 'special needs' guy is probably not yet realising that Ukraine is not in NATO, and it will never be.
Good thing is that Khinzai and Zircon missiles are pretty much invisible to even modern radar systems. Not because those are hypersonic or such, but because of the plasma that envelopes those at the speed higher than Mach 5 also known as 'plasma stealth'.
Posted by: whirlX | Nov 16 2022 12:37 utc | 60
@58 Willian Gruff Easily explained if the S-300 crew were asleep on the job.
If that were the case then the Russian missile/drone/whatever could have already gone past them before they had time to warm the old bird up and get it ready to shoot.
In which case they'd be shooting west because they are attempting to play catchup.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Nov 16 2022 12:39 utc | 61
BBC NEWS APP
'The Polish president has said there is no sign that the missile that hit Polish territory late on Tuesday was part of an intentional attack
President Duda says it's "very likely" that a missile explosion was caused by Ukrainian air defences
The Nato chief Jens Stoltenberg, who is holding a press conference, also says the incident in Poland was "likely" caused by the activity of Ukraine's air defence systems
Two people were killed after a missile landed in eastern Poland near the Ukrainian border following a wave of Russian strikes across Ukraine"
Posted by: HERMIUS | Nov 16 2022 12:40 utc | 62
Either way, this "Russian made" Ukrainian missile has become de-facto part of NATO, which is a significant victory for Ukraine.
Posted by: Skiffer | Nov 16 2022 12:41 utc | 63
For giggles, I occasionally watch this youtuber political commentator grifter hack (a Millennial know-it-all named Tim who wears a beanie because he's bald and, I guess, ashamed he can't grow a man-bun?) whose main creed of course is #AntiWar. Yet he was slobbering all over himself yesterday, behaving just like these UK tabloids, clearly thrilled that Russia finally attacked NATO. I guess he hopes to "monetize" WW3--that's the word the youtuber bobbleheads use, right?--that is, at least while the North American electrical grid remains viable, haha! I know, I know, Millennials (and their vapid demon-spawn, GenZero) are unaware that the Internet requires the Grid to function, and is actually not a naturally occurring free resource like air (which also will be hard to come by in WW3).
Posted by: Tom SteChatte | Nov 16 2022 12:43 utc | 64
This should have been true a long time ago, according to Putin's fake "red line". But against real command-and-control targets, not nonsensical ones like in this fake case.
As for NATO false-flags and pretexts, this was never more than timing. Fast Russian action would have prevented it, going-slow seems designed to have enabled it.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Nov 16 2022 12:46 utc | 65
This incident is obviously accidental. But the fact that US and its NATO vassals are unwilling to turn this into a false-flag initiative means that they are scary to take on Russia in direct fights. They simply chickened out. Proxy war in other people's turf is the limit of how far they would go.
Posted by: YIU | Nov 16 2022 12:48 utc | 66
Apparently this is not the first time, numerous S300 AD from Lvov have fallen across the Polish border. Usually they land in the woods, just scaring off a few squirrels, and Poland has just ignored them. Machine translate using Deepl etc.
Posted by: BM | Nov 16 2022 12:52 utc | 67
The money-shot:
"The Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs described the missile as a “Russian-made” missile, a phrase that could include S-300 ground to air missiles in the possession of Ukraine."
It could ALSO include an S-300 missile that was put into service with the Polish armed forced during the Cold War, then gifted to Ukraine by the Poles, only to be returned to Poland in the most embarrassing way possible.
Hats off to ppp3 @16. The more I read about it the more I suspect his joke is right: this came from a Polish S-300 system that was handed over to The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Nov 16 2022 12:53 utc | 68
Ukraine on purpose fired a missiles against Poland they all know it that and is why Article 5 of the charter is now all of a sudden closed and they refused to blame Russia
Ukraine tried to start WW3
Posted by: Sam | Nov 16 2022 12:54 utc | 69
If a photo of the missile casing showing the serial number turns up it should be possible to determine whether the missile originated in Polish inventories, Ukrainian inventories or some other country. Russia still has records.
Posted by: BM | Nov 16 2022 12:57 utc | 70
"Article 5", even in principle ("deems necessary") was never more than virtue-signaling and at the whim of the US, so it's stupid whenever anyone pretends it's some kind of law of physics.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Nov 16 2022 12:59 utc | 71
The photos of the remains of MH17 on the port side look like it was hit by an A2A missile fired at the pilot, followed by a burst of 30mm cannon fire. They had to dream up the BUK missile theory as there would not have been any Russian military aircraft anywhere near.
Posted by: DITTO | Nov 16 2022 13:01 utc | 72
Listening to the Beeb on the radio this AM...."Ukrainian AD missile", so there's that.
I agree that the whole Article 5 biznuss is a bit overblown, and is not as stated above "A law of physics"... It's not as though Poland isn't already bagg-deep in the conflict as it is.
Posted by: Chevrus | Nov 16 2022 13:19 utc | 73
Yeah, Right @61: "Easily explained if the S-300 crew were asleep on the job."
And yet the trolls assure us the Ukes had 24 hours advance notice of the strikes. Maybe they stayed awake all night in anticipation and that caused them to get sleepy?
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 16 2022 13:21 utc | 74
So when can we expect to see Ukraine issue an apology ,and pay reparations , for the dead just as Iran did for accidentally shooting down that airliner a few years ago?
Posted by: Brother Ma | Nov 16 2022 13:21 utc | 75
The most hilarious aspect of this episode of NATO's proxy war on Russia via Ukraine-as-US-hostage, is that NATO & the US Military are chicken shit, gutless and incomptent. Now they're trying to get us to believe they want a war with Russia AND China SIMULTANEOUSLY!
And better yet, neither Russia nor China has disarmed - unlike all the pissant little nations the racist supremacist Christian Colonial Cuntries have bombed back to the Stone Age.
Quite frankly, I can't wait for them to blunder headlong into a war they'll be lucky to survive. And it's not hard to imagine how scared the Chinese and Russians ARE NOT!
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 16 2022 13:29 utc | 76
@32 yes I do it was Ukrainian sf training in the Baltic states who did this with the approval of us. They had training from uk sf to pull this off. This was done just after Germans protested higher gas prices and wanted ns2 to be started. Us will not do it directly they just gave the ok and the balts probably gave the explosives and drones to Ukrainian sf diver or maybe us or uk gave the materials but without a doubt Ukrainians did this. No matter what us wouldn't want to do it directly no matter how much they think they own the German political class.
Posted by: A.z | Nov 16 2022 13:33 utc | 77
'Once ze rocket goes up to where it comes down is not my department, says Werner von Braun.'
Credits to Tom Lehrer.
From Lviv the two missiles went straight North and hit two Polish farmers working at a grain dryer well after midnight. Stray S300 missiles are designed to deactivate their war heads.
There have been no reports to date of other Ukraine S300 missiles going that dramatically off course. Zelensky has accused the Russians of attacking themselves at a Nuclear power plant and blowing up their own bridges.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Nov 16 2022 13:43 utc | 78
To the rescue --
TASS today "Germany ready to patrol Polish airspace, Defense Ministry says
According to Christian Thiels, the aircraft may depart on the patrolling mission from bases in Germany."
In the ordinary meaning of the word, insane.
Posted by: Elmagnostic | Nov 16 2022 13:50 utc | 79
Poland says it was a mistake by the Ukrainians.
Nuclear holocaust has been temporarily delayed.
Posted by: Benn | Nov 16 2022 13:54 utc | 80
William Gruff | Nov 16 2022 12:28 utc | 58
ISIS would fire a few rounds into Israel when it needed help. Ukroids were at the back of the line when brains were handed out so possibly an accident, though more likely a UK provocation to try and pull US back into the fight.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 16 2022 13:59 utc | 81
I'm offline till tomorrow morning, so if anyone calling himself by my name comments before then, it's an impostor, not I.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 16 2022 13:59 utc | 82
Like the white helmets can organize a chemical event to get more weapons and money, Z. can now just kill some Poles to get more money and weapons. What should he do when losing the war?
Fun newspeak fact: Z. called Russia a terrorist state because of the killing by Ukraine.
Posted by: gary | Nov 16 2022 14:01 utc | 83
I can sadly report the shameless fake news reporting of "Russian missiles" is not limited to UK press.
Italian MSM Youtube videos are rife with disinformation like this, from outlets who already corrected to 'probably Ukraine' narratives on their main news websites, but happily neglect to correct online videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ4WW29UDm4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJmcD813OvI&lc
Luckily, we can rely on Youtube and Western disinformation NGO's to be onto it and i am sure will be soon removing all this fake news as quickly as possible and issuing bans and strikes to all responsible channels... /s
Posted by: Et Tu | Nov 16 2022 14:02 utc | 84
Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 16 2022 13:29 utc | 77
The crap in the media in past years about US beingt able to fight a two front war. Push comes to shove and the yanks can't even sustain arms to a one front proxy war.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 16 2022 14:02 utc | 85
Peter AU1 @82
Yes, given that fools have taken over in the Ukraine stupidity can never be ruled out.
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 16 2022 14:05 utc | 86
Maybe the Poles shot the missile at themselves like the Russians do similarly at Zaporizie Nuclear power station?
Posted by: Brother Ma | Nov 16 2022 14:14 utc | 87
Posted by: Don Keytale | Nov 16 2022 13:21 utc | 74
This also reminds that Biden's prewar prediction based on US intel that Russia would attack Ukraine was also correct.
Rubbish. It's not a "prediction" when you're the one actively engineering the event you're 'predicting'.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 16 2022 14:15 utc | 88
Ukraine called for “a joint investigation” ..provided that, like the MH17 scam, Russia is excluded from examining the evidence or any other participation in the investigation, and prime suspect Ukraine is not.
Posted by: nwwoods | Nov 16 2022 14:29 utc | 89
@donkeytale
You seem butthurt about this bar, and come off like a crazy ex-girlfriend turned stalker.
What’s your problem ?
Posted by: Featherless | Nov 16 2022 14:30 utc | 90
There is a conversation out there somewhere where a Ukie Oligarch discusses and implicitly confesses to Ukraine being responsible for the downing of MH17.
Posted by: DITTO | Nov 16 2022 14:40 utc | 91
Good to know. This also reminds that Biden's prewar prediction based on US intel that Russia would attack Ukraine was also correct.
Posted by: Don Keytale | Nov 16 2022 13:21 utc | 74
---
If you brutally beat up small children for eight years, I am correct in my prediction that at some point an adult will beat your kisser to a bloody pulp, since that is what any decent human being would do.
Such predictions are nothing special, just common sense.
Posted by: Nobody | Nov 16 2022 14:40 utc | 92
Good to know. This also reminds that Biden's prewar prediction based on US intel that Russia would attack Ukraine was also correct.
Posted by: Don Keytale | Nov 16 2022 13:21 utc | 74
---
If you brutally beat up small children for eight years, I am correct in my prediction that at some point an adult will beat your kisser to a bloody pulp, since that is what any decent human being would do.
Such predictions are nothing special, just common sense.
Posted by: Nobody | Nov 16 2022 14:40 utc | 93
So Nato may try to impose a No Fly zone over Ukraine? As President Putin said, "let them try."
Posted by: morongobill | Nov 16 2022 14:44 utc | 94
Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Nov 16 2022 11:13 utc | 40
I just think the US is looking for a more plausible excuse to get directly involved than hitting grain dryers and blowing up a tractor.
Posted by: Michigan Dude | Nov 16 2022 14:48 utc | 95
Posted by: Elmagnostic | Nov 16 2022 13:50 utc | 80
They are taking a jab at the Poles, suggesting they are unable to protect their airspace.
I think it might be tied to the Poles bringing up WW II reparations !!!!!
Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 16 2022 14:55 utc | 96
Canadian media is amplifying Stoltenberg’s talking point which is ‘OK the Ukes did it but it is still Russia’s fault because blah blah blah…’
Posted by: nwwoods | Nov 16 2022 14:56 utc | 97
I am reading comments from everyone. I want to put my opinion. For those especially in the west if you want to avert disaster and you want to stop war in Ukraine, start protesting start doing civil disobedience and confront warmongers in power. Cripple power of ruling class. Start revolution. It not simple as it seems I know but a way must be found to remove war party from power in the west. Neither Russia nor China can do anything without triggering nuclear holocaust. The onus is on people of the west. I know few are awake but as Margaret Mead stated: never underestimate a small committed group of citizens changing things. It is only thing that ever did.
Please also do not blame Ukraine Zelensky. They are nothing more than puppets pawns. The roots of the conflict are in Washington London Brussels. NATO is the one who created conditions for this conflict to happen. So NATO and West are not innocent victims of evil Ukraine starting WW III. West is the one who supports regime in Kiev since 2014. War in Donbass would not have been possible without the west arming and supporting the Kiev regime. Also the west is the one who brought the regime in Kiev in power and nurtured the Nazis in Ukraine. Just like ISIS. The collapse of the Neocon power in the west is what will bring peace. Also 87 percent of humanity wants nothing to do with this war on Russia China rlthat West started.
Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 16 2022 14:58 utc | 98
This was simply an unplanned friendly-fire event, a blunder that happens in war. The damage it caused was minimal and was hardly adequate to be defined as a casus belli.
If there is going to be a real false flag, its effects will be substantial and they will have the entire media campaign ready to go when it happens.
Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 16 2022 14:59 utc | 99
Canadian media is amplifying ...
Posted by: nwwoods | Nov 16 2022 14:56 utc | 98
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Anything but this exchange between Trudeau and Xi ==> https://twitter.com/zhao_dashuai/status/1592828589162246144
Posted by: too scents | Nov 16 2022 15:01 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Dmytro Kuleba @DmytroKuleba - 21:35 UTC · Nov 15, 2022 Ukraine government official
Russia now promotes a conspiracy theory that it was allegedly a missile of Ukrainian air defense that fell on the Polish theory. Which is not true. No one should buy Russian propaganda or amplify its messages. This lesson should have been long learnt since the downing of #MH17.
MH17 was a first Anglo-Ukraine fake false flag rocket, they have experience. Xi Jinping must be laughing his *ss off about his potential world rivals beating each other up. The neocons have proven to be cons to the core.
Posted by: Antonym | Nov 16 2022 8:39 utc | 1