Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 28, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-186

[Note: While the Typepad frontend now seems to again work, the backend, through which I edit, post and moderate, is still extremely slow - that is when it works at all.

I am therefore now sure I will be able to post later today as I had planned.

-b.]

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

Please stick to the topic.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Posted by b on October 28, 2022 at 13:39 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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@114

Is that from Moby Dick?

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Oct 29 2022 2:47 utc | 101

"Actually, as Winston well knew, it was only four years since Oceania had been at war with Eastasia and in alliance with Eurasia. But that was merely a piece of furtive knowledge which he happened to possess because his memory was not satisfactorily under control. Officially the change of partners had never happened. Oceania was at war with Eurasia: therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia"

...

Posted by: already_known | Oct 29 2022 2:51 utc | 102

SARS from 2003 and 2019 where very similar in genetic make up....it was a flu...my elderly parents caught it in Hong Kong actually.... SARS-COV-2 was a flu...it hit the Northern hemisphere during flu season....had the same symptoms as a flu...effected the same demographic as a flu and had the overall same mortality rate. It was an influenza....the difference being the way the U.N and WHO reclassified their definition of a Pandemic and then all member states where compelled to follow WHO guidelines and policy. This was in the middle of a trade war between the U.S and China....who held unusual sway within the U.N and the Democrats in the United States....who also hated the current president of the time. Video footage of Chinese urbanites collapsing on the streets added to fear and confusion no doubt but the tell all take of China's involvement was the fact that this Pandemic needed a mechanism to give outrageous test results to match the hype and narrative and enter stage right ..the PCR test that was used in such a way to give 90% false positive results at the cycle threshold used and the calibration of genetic material was possible by material provided by China to WHO....even though no SARS-COV-2 virus has ever been isolated...purified and mapped

Posted by: Joe | Oct 29 2022 3:01 utc | 103

As far as our democrat and republican politicians go, they all seem to be serving the same master; and I include Trump in this group because he did not fire Victoria Nuland but let her pick the next U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, and he then bragged about giving lethal weaponry to Ukraine whereas Obama only gave blankets.

Posted by: OdessaConnected | Oct 28 2022 17:35 utc | 26

Victoria Nuland was 100% out of the State Department during the Trump years and only came back after Biden was elected. She had no influence on Trump's foreign policy.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Oct 29 2022 3:17 utc | 104

@ intp1 | Oct 28 2022 17:26 utc | 22

"You are like a landsman at sea: don't know the ropes, the very things pulled everlastingly before your eyes. Serpent-like, they glide about, traveling blocks too subtle for you."

Melville, The Confidence-Man: His Masquerade

Posted by: John Kennard | Oct 29 2022 3:21 utc | 105

Posted by: Joe | Oct 29 2022 3:01 utc | 117

No Joe.

Please do not show your ignorance. The SARS family of viruses are NOT influenza but rather more related to some types of common cold. Sure the symptoms may be very similar but that is true of all sorts of diseases - most people would not be able to tell the difference between a strep sore throat (bacterial), influenza or a severe cold, even though caused by quite different organisms.

There are a number of issues with diseases that you may be only partly aware of. Firstly we each get some immunity from our mothers at birth. If they have had disease xyz then as babies we are born with some immunity. With very common diseases- even if quite nasty, if we catch them say before 6 month old then we are protected by our maternal immunity. Breast feeding extends the immunity period. That is why some nasty diseases are worse now as we live in more hygienic conditions, essentially because our mothers did not catch them and we were not exposed as babies. Polio and Hepatitis A are both diseases that i have read fall into this category (I am recalling stuff so apologies if debunked by more recent studies).

Now the danger from COVID (as it is for any really new variant of influenza) is that our mothers did not ever have it and there has not been a similar virus around for a generation or two. That makes us all very vulnerable. Now COVID appears to be at the upper end of really nasty colds. A very quick scan of 19th century history and literature will show you that the common cold was greatly feared, because people, especially children died. It was the secondary infections that killed but it was still a death caused by the common cold.

Moreover i would be prepared to put on a good sized wager that thanks to COVID we now will know heaps more about weird complications of what we though were minor common colds. Kawasaki disease - heart disease in children after a mild illness plus Chronic Fatigue Syndrome will probably be found to have been triggered by some earlier variant of the common cold- Corona virus just like SARS.

Posted by: watcher | Oct 29 2022 3:55 utc | 106

Appreciate your comments Bevin. Based in reality and mirroring some of my own sentiments, at least on those rare days I can feel hopeful about humanity's future.

Posted by: RMY_grendel | Oct 29 2022 4:07 utc | 107

@ 89
So, Chinese data is 100% true because if it’s faked there will be repercussions?
Severe consequences?
How fucking naive are you?
Somehow, China is a paragon of truth, despite its communist party leadership.
And people who would question Chinese data are the ones who are propagandized and misinformed?

Dude. And all the rest of the China sack suckers…China LIES to you!
Just like the FUKUS lie to you.
It’s crazy that people here swallow anything China says.
China’s govt does not love you or it’s people.
It’s just a different flavor of totalitarianism.
And to you guys it tastes just fine.

Posted by: Theodore Roosevelt | Oct 29 2022 4:14 utc | 108

The great "Best Covid-19 Response" debate continues.

Absent in today's discussion is the fact that many Chinese practice medicine differently than the west. My family has used alternative Oriental and/or Naturopathic remedies here in Canada with success, where traditional doctors could not solve the problem.

As some here have pointed out, nasal rinses, vitamins, common chemical compounds and organic remedies can all prevent serious consequences from any viral infection. Knowing that viruses cannot multiply in an alkaline environment and that they infect dying cells more easily than healthy cells also helps.

In "the west", the crisis was hyped and shaped to manufacture profits for the "sick care" industry both in the short and long term. It is still going on.

As an aside, in my extended group of over 65 aged family and friends, a handful of us opted out of the Covid-19 Inoculation program and none of us got sick in spite of multiple contacts with those who did. Of those who did get inoculations and boosters about 30% also got Covid-19. Not a huge sample, but instructive just the same.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Oct 29 2022 4:15 utc | 109

kaboom alkaline diet. smartest thing i read in this thread. and yes i lived in china, taiuht english privately, so if i say my opinion it counts?? china views covid as a bioweapon against it. and thats that. west views it from big pharma $ and digital id 2020 view. now back to ukraine and maybe touch on their bioweapons that even had covid 19 as part of their research.

Posted by: hankster | Oct 29 2022 4:43 utc | 110

@ Blissex 58

America's relationship with its friends is curious. Germany, Turkey and the EU played a key role in emptying Syria of its population, either the safety of Israel or for the voluntary expansion of Israel.

Maybe the quid pro quo for this monumental level of destruction is banking All You Can Eat finance, which would definitely help the higher educated hoping for interesting careers, than those struggling to survive on manual labour.

A workplace conversation with a group of the latter went like this. Plumber who votes Tory says he needs a hoist for his disabled nephew, which are no longer free under the Tories. I point out that the hoist would have been installed free under Labour. I get accused by the manual labour tribe of disrespecting the plumber.

Thatcher and spawn detest socialism in every of its manifestations in spite of its obvious benefits to themselves when they become vulnerable. Self-hate paralyses the mind.

The palysis of those who condone the trashing of the Middle East for Israel is caused by the fact that Fascist Tories are doing it for their own pockets, not for the working classes. In other words " I support the right-wing USUKIS for creating employment even though the USUKIS war in Ukraine has destroyed our economy".

That quid Pro quo for trashing our neighbours country, finances the educated, and deprives the less educated of their basic needs. Nobody can afford to buy a house or car, nobody can get medical treatment.

Yes, we turned a blind eye to the destruction of our neighbours civilisation, for very little benefit to ourselves.

If a country could have a collective memory, it might connect the trashing of Africa and the India, while we looked the other way to the trashing of the Middle East and Ukraine while we looked the other way.

Israel in O AD was re-building its temple, which had been destroyed by Babylonians whose language was Aramaic, on the proceeds of trade with India. Funny that the Brits ended up focussing on India. Unfinished Business?

We have just destroyed the Middle East. Is that our Unfinished Business or our partners in crimes unfinished business?
And why are now trying to re-write WW2 for
Zekensky? Is that our unfinished business, and what is the quid pro quo? And who gets it? BoJo?

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 29 2022 5:04 utc | 111

@129

Thinking about it, Israel is blocked by Russia's defeat of USUKIS in Syria from expansion in the Middle East of a Greater Israel, connecting Irael through Syria to its project in Kurdistan , its second home since the Captivity.

Ukraine is simply a second front to distract Russia, close to trusted NAto
allies. Russia's decision not to get distracted, and now to defeat USUKIS again in Ukraine, must piss off the empire.

Thersa May fell after losing Syria. BlowJo fell after losing Ukraine. I think empire might need a little extra help from ZelensKier Starmer to get out of this hole anytime soon.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 29 2022 5:29 utc | 112

Grant

It's true your covid thoughts dont belong here on a Ukraine thread. Seems you must be new, this blog during covid 100% accepted and promoted the mainstream narrative, probably those evil mRNA vaxxes as well, not sure as I took a break from the site. Just like everyone is an armchair general, likewise armchair epidemiologists abound.

Posted by: Organic | Oct 29 2022 6:14 utc | 113

It's true your covid thoughts dont belong here on a Ukraine thread. Seems you must be new, this blog during covid 100% accepted and promoted the mainstream narrative, probably those evil mRNA vaxxes as well, not sure as I took a break from the site. Just like everyone is an armchair general, likewise armchair epidemiologists abound.

Posted by: Organic | Oct 29 2022 6:14 utc | 131

Absolute rubbish, the people who posted here during vovid were extremely varied, I wasn't paying attention at the beginning but I believe there was a bit of a fall out since b was disturbed by some of the views. but after that there did not seem to be any censorship here. I don't know why people come here and post lies don't you have anything useful to do?

Posted by: K | Oct 29 2022 6:32 utc | 114

Posted by: Grant | Oct 29 2022 1:48 utc | 101
Grant I only KNOW you are wrong about isolation and lockdown. You can argue that with our spoiled western society dependent on air conditioning, that lockdowns do not work- which is why i called you a spoiled westernised brat. But the fact that Western society is so emotionally dependent on air conditioning is not the same as saying lockdowns and isolation od on work.
Posted by: watcher | Oct 29 2022 2:35 utc | 112

"Western society is emotionally dependent on air conditioning."

Christ.

Let's count the air conditioning units in China compared to Sweden. Stop trying to look smart when all you do is say "Western" when you mean "USA".

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 6:36 utc | 115

Here are a couple of sites that really improved my understanding of what is going on, why the battle is being fought the way it is and why the United States - and indeed NATO - is in a very poor position to be thinking about big land battles. Or any battles.

The first is a new post by Big Serge; I think I might have first heard of him on this site. Anyway, his calm analysis of the battle in Ukraine thus far explains a few things I never really grasped accurately. For one, did you know that Russia is legally only allowed to employ conscripts in the defense of Russia itself? I didn't. It explains why the west went nuts trying to find evidence of conscripts being used in the SMO, when Russian forces were defending the DPR/LPR by invitation, and they actually found a few, a handful, who should not have been there. Russia apologized, said it was a clerical error and pulled them out.

https://bigserge.substack.com/p/sound-and-fury

Also, without conscripts the Russian Battalion Tactical Group (BTG) is quite light on infantry, which explains very well why their forces prefer to withdraw when counterattacked and pound the piss out of the attackers with artillery and rockets; those are manned and operated by the regular professional army. It also suggests now that Kherson, Zaporozhye and the Donbas are Russian territory, there are no restrictions on employing conscripts since they are defending Russia, plus a substantial number of reserves have been called up. So we should start to see a change in emphasis on taking and holding ground.

The other item was on Tucker Carlson, of all things, but I checked it and it appears to be legit - the United States can rely on only 25 days supply of diesel. Tucker made much of the catastrophe it will wreak on trucking, which is the lifeblood of American domestic logistics, and that's true if nothing can be done about it. But pretty much all the USA's heavy armor, bridging vehicles, supply trucks, APC's and so forth all run on diesel. And I imagine NATO as a whole is running short. Not a good position from which to be swaggering and beating your chest and growling threats, especially when you are threatening a country that has lots of diesel and no logistics problem, since it's fighting right next door.

https://sports.yahoo.com/us-now-just-25-days-160000619.html

Posted by: Mark | Oct 29 2022 6:43 utc | 116

@ John_EN

Edit:

...and found at the time the INFECTION RATE was something like 80x what was being reported.

Posted by: John_EN | Oct 29 2022 6:43 utc | 117

Or Great Britain. Or even frigging Italy.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 6:44 utc | 118

Mark | Oct 29 2022 6:43 utc | 134

Both Big Serge and Will Schryver are good. https://twitter.com/imetatronink
https://imetatronink.substack.com/

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2022 6:52 utc | 119

The State Department said that the US does not rule out any options to combat the supply of weapons of Iran to Ukraine. The representative of the department pointed out that Washington has tools "that go beyond sanctions and other economic measures."

So while US is basically suggesting they'll shoot down Iraninan airplanes just because they can, isn't it weird that Russia isn't even sanctioning countries sending banned weapons, like France? Actually they don't even try to destroy supply routes inside Ukr so the rest isn't surprising.

Posted by: rk | Oct 29 2022 7:00 utc | 120

Posted by: OdessaConnected | Oct 29 2022 0:44 utc | 90

The Donetsk airport is part of the front now and this is when it happened.

If UAF is takin casualties at 1:7 or 1:8 rate as Putin suggested, or even 1:4 which there's no trouble believing, then it is losing and will lose, simple as that. Even if it takes another year or two.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 29 2022 7:06 utc | 121

Re: The not-Ukraine COVID in China
I was living in a small town in Sichuan when COVID broke out and stayed until China felt it was safe to boot out most foreigners. Sent back home, I then went thru the COVID restrictions in the US.

Three additional things that made China’s response different in my mind:
1)Chinese will wear a mask at the drop of a hat...for a pimple, a little cough. Masks were mandatory.
2) Lockdown was enforced by local elected officials, who roped off streets and took everyone's temp going out. Temps were also taken at any store that was lucky enough to be open.
3) This is significant, no usually mentioned. COVID patients were located in different hospitals. Usually these were either quickly built or made from local hotels or nursing homes.

Posted by: HelenB | Oct 29 2022 7:07 utc | 122

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ #Chronicle of the Special Military Operation for 28 Oct 2022⚡️

#Belgorod Region:

▪️ Ukrainian militants shelled the village of #Krasnoye in #Shebekinsky district of #Belgorod region, no injuries or casualties.

#Starobelsk Direction (MAP):

▪️ There are no significant changes in the #Kupyansk area, with artillery duels along the line of contact.

▪️ In the #Svatovo sector, the enemy attempted an offensive on #Kuzemovka, but retreated to the #Berestovoye area after losing about 10 vehicles.

▪️ At the #Lyman sector, Ukrainian formations made an attempt to storm #Krasnopopovka from the direction of #Nevskoye, but on the march they fell into the fire bag of the 20th Army's 252nd Guards Motorized Rifle Regiment. After heavy losses, the enemy withdrew to positions near the eastern bank of the #Zherebet.

Nevertheless, the AFU retains considerable reserves in this area in the form of 6 BTGr, which allows the enemy to launch attacks without regard to own losses.

▪️ In the #Lysychansk sector, artillery duels occur at #Belogorovka and #Grigorovka.

#Soledar Direction:

▪️ The situation on the front has not changed significantly. There is fighting on the eastern outskirts of #Bakhmut, in the suburbs near the asphalt plant and on the outskirts of #Opytnoye and #Soledar.

#Donetsk Direction:

▪️ After a temporary overnight lull, Ukrainian militants shelled #Donetsk, #Makeevka, #Yasinovataya and #Gorlovka again, with civilian casualties.

#Lugansk People's Republic:

▪️ Ukrainian militants shelled #Pervomaysk overnight, damaging civilian infrastructure in the city.

A young woman was killed by the shelling, her child was orphaned.

#Zaporozhye Direction:

▪️ The AFU tried to storm the Russian positions on the heights near #Vremevka, but the attack failed. The enemy retreated and suffered losses of personnel and equipment.

#Dnipropetrovsk Region:

▪️ Russian Forces repeatedly attacked enemy targets in #Pavlograd. At the same time, Russian artillery operated on targets in #Nikopol.

#Nikolaev - #Berislav Direction on Southern Front:

▪️ Russian Forces carried out strikes on enemy positions in #Nikolaev, Davydov Brod and #Bereznegovatoye during the night.

▪️ AFU militants in turn, shelled Novaya Kakhovka, #Kherson, Bolshaya and Malaya Lepetikha. Most of the shells were intercepted by the air defence.


https://t.me/Slavyangrad/17176

Posted by: Down South | Oct 29 2022 7:10 utc | 123

The issue with this war is that there is zero consequences if Zelly loses 5 million men. Because Zelly's "popularity" or ability to keep his regime in power doesn't really depend on popularity, but external support. Zelly can lose 50% of Ukraine's population and 90% of territory yet still keep his regime intact. This is an unprecedented and unique feature, similar to that of the ISIS or any other terrorist organization. Any "normal country" with "normal leaders" would have surrendered.

We should be able to conclude that Ukraine is not a country, but a terrorist organization.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 29 2022 7:14 utc | 124

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 6:36 utc | 133

Quite true China depends on air conditioners, which is perhaps one reason for such intense isolation. However in Western countries it is NOT families that depend on air conditioners but businesses. I was reacting to the absurd suggestion that social isolation ie lock downs do not work. It is just so much despicable garbage that my blood boils. It is nasty nasty bad bad for the big boys- the tourism industry and the air lines- too bad so sad.

Look people, if a really, really nasty disease- perhaps a deliberate bioweapon does arrive, then lock downs will be the only, only way of saving lives. Think it can't happen.

Well puppies (yes I am being deliberately rude) in Brisbane about 1994, we could have had the epidemic from hell. Luckily the virus in this case was not especially transmissible. It needed very close contact, but had it had the infectivity of its near relatives, measles and mumps, it could have spread like the plague- literally. Its death rate is something like 50%. and what is worse it easily infects cats, dogs, horses and rats. But hey lockdowns do not work. Pity about those 2-5 million funerals, mostly of children

Think right now monkey pox. It would seem to be a mild variant of smallpox. Luckily it is transmitted only by er ah er ahh very close contact- essentially as with small pox it is transmitted by touch. But hey, if some new variant came along that spread by aerosols, then yes lock downs would be the ONLY safe way to go. Again read a bit of history- dynasties and kingdoms were destroyed by the smallpox.

Posted by: watcher | Oct 29 2022 7:22 utc | 125

Posted by: Surferket | Oct 29 2022 3:35 utc | 121

Once again, thankyou. Great post. Singapore also originally did extremely well with COVID. i was impressed. Got the feeling it let things slide later- like Australia

Posted by: watcher | Oct 29 2022 7:45 utc | 126

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦💥 #Chronicle of Strikes and Exchanges of Fire in the SMO Zone Overnight from 28 to 29 Oct 2022⚡️

▪️ In the early morning hours, Black Sea Fleet ships and air defence assets engaged a large number of Ukrainian UAVs in #Sevastopol Bay.

According to some reports, among others, an underwater UAV was destroyed. No arrivals were recorded in #Sevastopol or its vicinity. At the moment the enemy attack continues

An American RQ-4B-40 Global Hawk reconnaissance drone was in neutral airspace over the Black Sea at the time of the raid.

▪️ Russian forces hit AFU positions in #Gay, #Khrenovka and #Leonovka in #Chernigov Region.

▪️ In #Kharkov Region, the Russian Armed Forces struck enemy concentrations in #Veternyornoye, #Strelechya and #Staritsa.

▪️ In #Starobelsk direction, Russian forces hit Ukrainian formations in #Chugunovka, #Dvurechna, #Berestovoye and #Olgovka.

▪️ In the #Bakhmut (#Artemovsk) direction, Russian missile troops and artillery fired on accumulations of AFU manpower and equipment in #Bakhmut, #Bakhmutskoye, #Belogorovka, #Soledar and #Kleshcheevka.

▪️ In #Donetsk direction, the Russian Armed Forces hit targets in #Yakovlevka, #Avdeevka, #Novomikhailovka, #Pervomayskoye, #Vodyanoye and #Ugledar.

Ukrainian militants, in turn, shelled #Donetsk, #Dokuchaevsk and #Yasynuvata with large-calibre guns.

▪️ In #Zaporozhye Region, Russian troops hit AFU positions in Malye Shcherbaki and #Gulyaypole. At the same time, at night, the Russian Armed Forces fired on enemy firing points in #Nikopol and Dobroy Nadezhdy.

▪️ In #Nikolaev - #Berislav direction, Ukrainian formations in Davydov Brod, #Kobzartsy and Malaya Seideminukha were hit.


https://t.me/Slavyangrad/17184

Posted by: Down South | Oct 29 2022 8:24 utc | 127

I know I shouldn't post off topic, but those "reality based" people out there, who actually believe that there is a "shared reality" out which can be investigated by individuals using a collection of strategies called "science" (Ha! what losers!) probably think the best way to determine the best response to covid is to look at those countries who were exposed to covid but who achieved a near zero death rate. Like India, most of Africa... what morons!!.

Posted by: Tim | Oct 29 2022 8:26 utc | 128

About 400 residents were evacuated from Belgorod because of shelling. Unclear if it's +400 or the total has reached 400.

Posted by: rk | Oct 29 2022 9:04 utc | 129

🇺🇦⚡️ Ukranian insider channel:

Our source in the OP said that foreign volunteers / mercenaries refused to take part in the assault on Kherson, which is why the entire operation is postponed for several weeks until the Ukrainian Armed Forces collect new reserves.


https://t.me/intelslava/40226

Posted by: Down South | Oct 29 2022 9:33 utc | 130

Posted by: Tim | Oct 29 2022 8:26 utc | 146

Yes Tim what absolute morons ha ha. When it comes to looking at death rates in many countries like India or Africa, first you must recognize that reporting rates of illness and even of deaths is very hit and miss. Data is not comparable.

Next you need to have a grasp of epidemiology. As I noted earlier, the severity of an epidemic depends upon the level of exposure the population has already had. In any population where a similar infection has already been through perhaps 30 years previously, in a milder form, then most of the population is already immune. When a related virus comes along, it behaves pretty much as a normal epidemic cold. However if the SAME virus gets to a place where there has not been a previous infection, then it is much, much more serious. Looking at the data, it would seem very likely that a related Corona virus has swept through Africa and India at some time, possibly in the last 100 years, but remaining in an attenuated form, giving most of the population immunity. In really severe epidemics (as happened in the great Plague) the death rate is so high that there are shifts in the genetic balance, so that almost all the survivors are genetically resistant to that type of disease.

To give an example we all know about. Take Measles. Now this was a common childhood illness in Europe. While it was in fact not a very mild disease and some children died or went deaf or blind, for 99% of the population it passed with little trouble. However when sailors took the illness to Pacific islands that had never been exposed the death rate was hideous.

Posted by: watcher | Oct 29 2022 9:47 utc | 131

Some alleged insights into the dysfunction and contradictions hampering the SMO..

https://anti-empire.com/ex-separatist-kadyrov-attacks-commander-of-russias-most-successful-military-district/

Posted by: Et Tu | Oct 29 2022 9:51 utc | 132

⚠️ Today at 4.20 am, the Kiev regime carried out a terrorist attack on ships of the Black Sea Fleet and civilian ships located on the outer and inner roads of the Sevastopol base.

◽️ Nine unmanned aerial vehicles and seven autonomous maritime drones were involved in the attack.

💥 As a result of the operational measures taken by the forces of the ships of the Black Sea Fleet, all air targets were destroyed.

💥 In the course of repulsing a terrorist attack on the outer roadstead of Sevastopol, four marine unmanned vehicles were destroyed using naval weapons and naval aviation of the Black Sea Fleet, and three more were destroyed on the inner roadstead.

◽️ Minor damage was received by the sea minesweeper Ivan Golubets, as well as the bonnet barrier in Yuzhnaya Bay.

◽️ It should be emphasized that the ships of the Black Sea Fleet that were attacked by terrorists are involved in ensuring the security of the “grain corridor” as part of an international initiative to export agricultural products from Ukrainian ports.

◽️ The preparation of this terrorist act and the training of military personnel of the Ukrainian 73rd Special Center for Maritime Operations were carried out under the guidance of British specialists located in the city of Ochakov, Nikolaev region of Ukraine.

◽️ According to available information, representatives of this unit of the British Navy took part in the planning, provision and implementation of a terrorist attack in the Baltic Sea on September 26 of this year. on blowing up the Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 gas pipelines-Russian MOD


https://t.me/azmilitary11/27110

Posted by: Down South | Oct 29 2022 10:57 utc | 133

Down South | Oct 29 2022 10:57 utc | 151

Slow is best! Lots of ships waiting to be destroyed

Posted by: rk | Oct 29 2022 11:07 utc | 134

Tim .. with permission by B.. there is no COVID, and therefore IMPOSSIBLE to build immunity against a man made spike protein, designed to avoid the immune system's leucocytes, killer white blood cells, complement, 5-reactive protein and inteferon.

The Identity of the Virus: Health/ Science Institutions Worldwide “Have No Record” of SARS-COV-2 Isolation/Purification. Dr. Christine Massey, Dec. 2021.

US lawyer Dr Francis Boyle, who has drafted Bio-Warfare Regs. has evidence that Harvard U Chem. Dept. Dr. Charles Lieber & Oz. Health Dept aided Wuhan Labs in the project to create the bio-weapon spike protein, in which, cancer, hap. and HIV codes are embedded.

Posted by: Thomas Turk | Oct 29 2022 11:11 utc | 135

Kiev regime wants to arrange a big provocation to directly involve US and NATO in Ukrainian conflict, in order to ensure they remain in power, Ukraine has every reason to arrange that, and a dirty bomb fits very well - First Deputy Permanent Representative of Russia to UN Security Council Polyansky.

Another genius. Maybe ask for 10 more soldiers and a 5 more missiles? A few days later there will be no regime left to remain in power. A provocation can appear next year too. With unlimited time, they'll succeed at something sooner or later.

Posted by: rk | Oct 29 2022 11:23 utc | 136

Down South | Oct 29 2022 10:57 utc | 151

I gather there were two US planes directing the attack. One of which was a Global Hawk.
So the US and UK were probably in this together.
**

Posted by: Stonebird | Oct 29 2022 11:27 utc | 137

22 intp1 | Oct 28 2022 17:26 utc

Germans must wander around Germany like mental patients unable to comprehend what is happening: The wholesale dismantling of their society.

Agree, there is much naivity.
We are not supposed to know who was it that destroyed NS1 and NS2
I wonder how many people know about it.
We're not supposed to watch RT - it is no longer available via satellite
RT DE was being launched - the German language TV program - but it was blocked, long before Feb 24th.
The German internet page of RT - and its english counterpart - no longer reachable unless you know how to configure your browser.
The official TV service keeps spreading disinformation and lies.
But people believe the official news since they can't imagine the degree to which they are being lied to.

Posted by: grunzt | Oct 29 2022 11:31 utc | 138

"According to available information, representatives of this unit of the British Navy took part in the planning, provision and implementation of a terrorist attack in the Baltic Sea on September 26 of this year. on blowing up the Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 gas pipelines-Russian MOD"
---

So they've officially named the Brits for NS1|2 now, interesting.

Posted by: knighthawk | Oct 29 2022 11:46 utc | 139

@157 nighthawk

I caught that too and was stopping byvto check other's thoughts about this. Does this officially bring the uk into the war? Is britian now officially involved in provoking 3 world wars now?

Posted by: NJH | Oct 29 2022 12:07 utc | 140

Grant has apparently spent a LOT of time misinforming himself. But trying to have a rational discussion with such people is obviously a waste of time. Not sure who he thinks he is convincing with such nonsense.

Posted by: John R Moffett | Oct 29 2022 12:20 utc | 141

"And I was reacting to the absurd suggestion that "Western societies are emotionally dependant on air conditioning."

I'm sure not generally, but people used to live here without it, and now pretty much nobody voluntarily goes without some form of it.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 29 2022 12:31 utc | 142


Pre-A/C the population of the American Southwest was a small fraction of what it is now. It's what makes living in places like Houston possible.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 29 2022 12:40 utc | 143

Does this officially bring the uk into the war?
Posted by: NJH | Oct 29 2022 12:07 utc | 158

What war? There's no war, not even in Ukr.
Russia can say they're terrorists and it will be last time you'll hear about it. No one else will accept, probably not even China. nato will say Russia did it, like they say about ZNPP shelling.

Posted by: rk | Oct 29 2022 12:42 utc | 144

Rumors say Alexander Lapin was removed from his post.

Posted by: rk | Oct 29 2022 12:50 utc | 145

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 29 2022 12:40 utc | 161

yeah i was thinking specifically of Houston. miserable climate.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 29 2022 12:51 utc | 146

HelenB COVID in China? 1st, there's NO COVID, see my comment. 2. China uses the PCR test! Dr. Kary Mullis, inventor of the PCR test stated that his test only idents strands of DNA from Hep. and various Flus, and that the test was NEVER intended to be used as a diagnostic tool.

US Dr. Elisabeth Eads studies noted that the PCR test gives 97% false positives.then China uses the PCR test!

Posted by: Thomas Turk | Oct 29 2022 12:58 utc | 147

Today at 4.30 AM the AFU attacked the military facilities of the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol with 9 UAVs and 7 marine drones. The American reconnaissance drone RQ-4 Global Hawk appeared in neutral airspace over the Black Sea at the time of the UAV attack. Ships of the Black Sea Fleet subjected to a terrorist attack are involved in ensuring the security of the "grain corridor" as part of a grain deal. All UAV were destroyed by the Black Sea Fleet, 4 USV were destroyed on the outer roadstead of Sevastopol with naval weapons and naval aviation of the Black Sea Fleet, three more were destroyed on the inner roadstead.

The preparation of the attack and the training of the military personnel of the Ukrainian 73rd Special Center for Maritime Operations were carried out under the guidance of British specialists located in Ochakovo. Representatives of this unit of the British Navy took part in the planning, provision and implementation of the Nord Stream terrorist attack on September 26.


The multi-level drone attack on the Sevastopol Bay today was supervised by NATO specialists. In fact, NATO is now conducting “military exercises” in real situations under the cover of Ukrainian strikes. They work out different strategies, tactics and test different toys. In fact, Ukraine has become a testing ground, at the moment it suits Western partners who solve their problems, but retaliation for these comes to the Ukrainian people in the form of strikes on the energy system etc. There is still a risk when the Western arms lobby will conduct all the necessary tests and simply stops all military support for Ukraine. Used and thrown away. Everyone is now wondering what will Russia's response to Ukraine be for the attack by Western drones on Sevastopol.

#legitimate

Posted by: SeanAU | Oct 29 2022 13:05 utc | 148

I was reacting to the absurd suggestion that social isolation ie lock downs do not work.
Posted by: watcher | Oct 29 2022 7:22 utc | 143

And I was reacting to the absurd suggestion that "Western societies are emotionally dependant on air conditioning."

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 13:08 utc | 149

Hey, let's compare the Extremadura region of Spain to Japan.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 13:09 utc | 150

A random but telling comment on RT's site today:
"Has anyone asks themselves why Russia has not responded directly on NATO or US territory? Simply, because it will spark WW3. But, WW3 already started against Russia by the US/NATO military block"

The clocks hands (or digits!) are moving.

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Oct 29 2022 13:10 utc | 151

#legitimate
@ SeanAU | Oct 29 2022 13:05 utc | 166

Good info there. I wonder is it the first time that RF accused straight forward UK and its clandestine actions for NS1&2 and Sevastopol?
Would that mean upping the ante for UK and having them as a target in the future?

Very interesting.

There is something strange in RF attitude towards NATO's 'eyes in the sky' and AWACS flying 24/7 along Ukraine/Belorussian borders.
Those are capable assets and if interconnected with combat systems and command posts, and they probably are, are part of the war and attack force. In any war book and conflict rules it is a plain part of an attack(s).
If those NATO assets were blinded somehow, does that count as an attack too, or using Radio-Frequency Weapons is still explained as a mysterious malfunction of equipment?

Lots of questions there. All the answers lead to an escalation, probably.
I remember some years ago AEGIS US ship in the Black Sea that was RFW 'burned' by RF fighter plane flying over it.
I cannot remember US armed response as it was none and pushed under as, just some sideline news and here and there US whining about it.
I think it was right after Crimea annexation and 'green men' hype.

Good strategy, NATO, bravo – keep provoking and find out.

Posted by: whirlX | Oct 29 2022 13:26 utc | 152

Elmagnostic | Oct 29 2022 13:10 utc | 169

They can respond on non-nato territory, like the former Ukr, if they wanted to. Thousands of nato mercenaries and all nato transport routes waiting to be hit.

Posted by: rk | Oct 29 2022 13:30 utc | 153

Enough is enough. Time to hit western Ukraine with a nuke. That should be enough to cool inadequate Anglo-Saxon heads.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Oct 29 2022 13:33 utc | 154

so disrespectful for people to hijack a ukraine thread to prattle about covid.

Posted by: line islands | Oct 29 2022 13:34 utc | 155

"Not sure who he thinks he is convincing with such nonsense.

Posted by: John R Moffett | Oct 29 2022 12:20 utc | 159"
At the very least he's mucking up the Ukraine thread with off topic noise ad nauseum.

Posted by: osi | Oct 29 2022 13:43 utc | 156

Posted by: line islands | Oct 29 2022 13:34 utc | 173

I was going to say cuntish but disrespectful will do. I’m interested in non-approved views of covid but not a thread-coagulating infusion ... the irony!

Minor asides are one thing but it is disfunctional not to have shunted it over to the non-UA thread.

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 29 2022 13:57 utc | 157

--
I caught that too and was stopping byvto check other's thoughts about this. Does this officially bring the uk into the war? Is britian now officially involved in provoking 3 world wars now?

Posted by: NJH | Oct 29 2022 12:07 utc | 158
---

As if they weren't already, US, PL, and others as well, it's not like they're just shipping aid to Ukraine or small arms, shipping full systems, openly training Ukrainians on their own territories and boasting about it, all kinds of things that make one a party to the conflict or at least vehicles involved parties to the conflict. Russians have been very tolerant not to say idk start sinking ships or aircraft transporting some of this gear into the theater, or LNG tankers for that matter set to off load in France or UK etc. But I digress. I'm kinda more interested atm in DE's reaction to this, or if they're gonna keep pretending like it didn't happen and say nothing. :)

---
Rumors say Alexander Lapin was removed from his post.

Posted by: rk | Oct 29 2022 12:50 utc | 163
----
Rumors seem to be confirmed now, was removed from current post, not announced yet where he's being reassigned.

---
They can respond on non-nato territory, like the former Ukr, if they wanted to. Thousands of nato mercenaries and all nato transport routes waiting to be hit.

Posted by: rk | Oct 29 2022 13:30 utc | 171
---
For now probably wiser short term targets than type of stuff I mentioned above.


" I wonder is it the first time that RF accused straight forward UK and its clandestine actions for NS1&2 and Sevastopol?"
---
It is the first time they have outright said Brits, and what unit were involved in NS1&2. It's not the first time they've suggested Brit or US involvement for that matter in connection with attacks in the black sea, or for that matter some of the the ZNPP attempted river crossing attacks.

-2cents fwiw

Posted by: knighthawk | Oct 29 2022 14:00 utc | 158

Enough is enough. Time to hit western Ukraine with a nuke. That should be enough to cool inadequate Anglo-Saxon heads.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Oct 29 2022 13:33 utc | 172

Oh do shut up, you fucking apocalypse-mongering racist.

My "inadequate Anglo-Saxon head" is busy working in a steel factory eight hours a day lifting six to ten metric tons a day. Do you lift anything heavier than a pencil for a living? Are you sure that you're not just here to give the site a bad name?

Again. Fuck. Off.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 14:00 utc | 159

Alex Mercouis (sp?) said that Putin's Valdai speech took aim at Karl Popper's open society (among others). I scanned it, looks like he just mentions liberals are having evolved from believing in freedom, to believing the open society has enemies, to the current incarnation of globalist cancel culture.

Anyone catch any deeper criticism of Popper's Open Society in that speech?

Posted by: GoFast | Oct 29 2022 14:01 utc | 160

Covid was defeated by Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin in February 22, 2022.

Posted by: Ricardo Ramirez | Oct 29 2022 14:02 utc | 161

Covid was defeated by Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin in February 22, 2022.

Posted by: Ricardo Ramirez | Oct 29 2022 14:02 utc | 179

True enough unless you count China which was the intended target of the American biogenic weapon.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 14:06 utc | 162

Sorry meant to include boris_rozhin aka Colonelcassad (tg https://t.me/s/boris_rozhin ) as source for confirmation about Lapin being replaced.

Posted by: knighthawk | Oct 29 2022 14:07 utc | 163

When the SMO wraps up very soon here will it be dropped out of the news cycle as fast as Covid was?

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 29 2022 14:08 utc | 164

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 14:00 utc | 177

In case you hadn’t noticed Russia have directly blamed the UK for this. But of course you think our - yes our - for I am a fellow Brit - government have their hands completely clean of this. Get real, 404 could not have pulled this stunt off alone. With our economy trashed long term maybe a declaration of war is the last roll of the dice for the elites here in the UK.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Oct 29 2022 14:09 utc | 165

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 14:00 utc | 177

In case you hadn’t noticed Russia have directly blamed the UK for this. But of course you think our - yes our - for I am a fellow Brit - government have their hands completely clean of this. Get real, 404 could not have pulled this stunt off alone. With our economy trashed long term maybe a declaration of war is the last roll of the dice for the elites here in the UK.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Oct 29 2022 14:09 utc | 183

"Cool inadequate Anglo-Saxon heads" by igniting nuclear war.

Do you lift anything heavier than a pencil for a living?

I'm not a Brit.

Fuck off.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 14:12 utc | 166

@unimperator 139

Unimperator wrote: "The Donetsk airport is part of the front now and this is when it happened."

The first battle for the Donetsk airport was in May 2014, and the second battle was in September 2014. You can Google 'Donetsk airport battle' to see this. There is presently no battle for the airport as you suggest.

The battle not to far from there is for the village of Opytne. If Russia can gain control of this area, they will be in position to finally begin an assault on Avdiivka. If they can take Avdiivka, it will be a major public relations victory and will end the most vicious ongoing daily attacks on the civilian population of Donetsk.

Posted by: OdessaConnected | Oct 29 2022 14:12 utc | 167

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 14:12 utc | 184
Fuck off yourself you Yank/Canadian/Aussie cunt (or whatever flavour of Anglo Saxon you ascribe to.)

When I talk of Anglo Saxons I talk of the elites that run those countries.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Oct 29 2022 14:16 utc | 168

RT: British navy involved in Nord Stream 2 'terrorist attack' – Russia

What is Russia going to do about that?
Nothing.
Russia is afraid.

Posted by: marko | Oct 29 2022 14:16 utc | 169

This would be my response to the attack on Sevastopol. Thank God I'm not appointed, I don't know a thing.

Full invasion. Conventional carpet bombing of all major Ukraine cities. Shock and Awe. Capturing the bastards in power and hanging them from light poles.

But not nukes, that is exactly what the Nazi cunts in power of the Ukraine are trying to provoke.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 14:17 utc | 170

@Elmagnostic | Oct 29 2022 13:10 utc | 169

"Has anyone asks themselves why Russia has not responded directly on NATO or US territory?"

I guess Russia can try arming the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement with T-90 tanks and other hardware but "Shaka Brah" is lacking compared to "Ziguvannya".

Posted by: Jun | Oct 29 2022 14:19 utc | 171

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 14:12 utc | 184
Fuck off yourself you Yank/Canadian/Aussie cunt (or whatever flavour of Anglo Saxon you ascribe to.)

When I talk of Anglo Saxons I talk of the elites that run those countries.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Oct 29 2022 14:16 utc | 186

Yeah then well please say so. I have no patience for assholes clamoring for nuclear war and denigrating people of color. Yes. White is a color.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 14:19 utc | 172

Britain being a small island that does not produce much of anything
seems highly vulnerable to me. Plenty of pipelines and undersea cables to blow up. Think of the consternation in the City of London if communications went down and stayed down.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 29 2022 14:20 utc | 173

Ricardo Ramirez | Oct 29 2022 14:02 utc | 179

In the sense of an instrument of Western establishment concern, you are correct, the Russian state did provide the perfect excuse for the West to let its slow self-sabotage proceed quietly in the background. In any other sense take your meds.

Night Tripper | Oct 29 2022 13:33 utc | 172

Why shouldn't you be given the Muammar treatment right now simply for believing that the psychosis you call your will is at all fit to extend over others? Serious hypothetical question.

Posted by: sippy the shot glass | Oct 29 2022 14:20 utc | 174

There is an excellent essay by Jim Kavanagh, published today in The Polemicist, titled "Will There Be A Nuclear War?" You can read the article at thepolemicist dot net, and I urge everyone to do so. As the author puts it:


So, there’s at least a fifty-percent chance that a military situation will arise in which one of the parties in this conflict faces an imminent existential defeat that it cannot allow. (I think that’s most likely to be the US/NATO/Kiev. We shall see.) And there’s at least a fifty-percent chance that the party threatened with such a defeat will use every weapon in its arsenal to stave it off. Therefore, there’s a fifty-percent chance of nuclear war. If you want to argue otherwise, in this war between the US/NATO/Kiev vs. Russia, please tell me: Who will accept defeat?

Posted by: Mexicana | Oct 29 2022 14:23 utc | 175

@143 Watcher

You're correct stating that if an actual contagion were released in wartime that isolation may help spread, however during wartime driving trucks to supply food and goods to stores, water, electric, other infrastructures need staffed and maintained, these workers need food and coffee and gas etc. Theoretically it may sound like a workable idea but in reality it could never work. That has nothing to do with covid though, zero. Usuk released real covid against china, and china-russia-iran know it and openly state that. What was released in china, we'll call real covid was tested on thc vaping victims here in the us, as well as the weaker version common now was tested in the us in 2017/2018 with hopsitals in tx, pa, and all over reporting patients with persistent coughs they couldn't isolate any known virus from. Lockdowns obviously couldn't work for covid as its' spread originates from non-biological vectors. In large cities that's more easily accomplished taking advantage of both underground infrastructure and the tall skyline, then the crowded masses do the rest. In rural areas such deployment techniques are impossible, and the .gov knew that real amounts of travel wouldn't spread the contagion widely or quickly enough to reach enough of rural small-town America, so the infamous covid helicopters, their tail signs fearfully tracked on flightracker 24 and discussed on forums spread it across the midwest, to such an extent that now multiple universities have released studies attempting to explain covid found widespread in deer populations. That's right, whitetail deer.. the most skittish and isolated species of animals when it comes to contact with humans. The most naturally isolated creature, deer are now widely carrying covid. I guess they should have worn their masks, or they broke the 6' personal distance rule, or didn't lysol their groceries? Nah, they got sprayed.

Posted by: NJH | Oct 29 2022 14:24 utc | 176

Posted by: sippy the shot glass | Oct 29 2022 14:20 utc | 192


Yeah, lets just bow down to the Anglo-Saxon elites and do nothing. I personally suspect the Anglo saxon elite would do nothing if you dropped a nuke in Ukraine. Its a valid opinion, not an extremist one. Medvedev said the same a few weeks ago.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Oct 29 2022 14:24 utc | 177

THERE IS NO REASON TO NUKE KIEV.

Russia has no extended its military capabilities in the slightest enough to merit nukes.

If it came to that, if that was the only option, then fine, do it.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 29 2022 14:26 utc | 178

@Opport Knocks 119

I stand corrected, thank you. Not sure how I missed the fact that the war monger Victoria Nuland voluntarily left the State Department when Trump took over in 2017, but it is relevant that she's the one who recommended Marie Yovanovitch to replace her co-conspirator in the 2014 coup, ambassador Goeffrey Pyatt, and Yovanovitch later testified against Trump in one of his impeachment trials, the phone call impeachment as I recall.

While Nuland left the State Department, it appears that Trump continued down the same path set in place by Victoria Nuland and her fellow war mongers in the State Department. I believe it has yet to be explained why Trump would on the one hand say he wanted us to have a good relationship with Russia while he never said anything against Ukraine's ongoing genocide in the Donbas, and he never weighed in to say Ukraine should abide by the Minsk accords.

We now know, from recent statements by Poroshenko who was president at when the final Minsk accords were adopted in 2015, that Ukraine never intended to abide by the Minsk accords, rather, their plan was to buy time to build up their military and the U.S. helped them do that.

Two questions follow: (1) Why did the U.S. help them build up their military during this period; and (2) Who is Trump -- a willing participant in this or just someone doing what he was told to do?

Posted by: OdessaConnected | Oct 29 2022 14:38 utc | 179

@193 by your maths the chance of nuclear war should be 50% x 50% = 25%.

It is hard however to see the defeat of Ukraine as an existential crisis for the USA.
They have taken more direct defeats than that before without resorting to nuclear weapons : Vietnam.

Even having NATO return to 1995 borders - accomplishing all of Russian stated goals of 2021, would not be an existential defeat for NATO, just a return to a previously stable status quo.

Posted by: Dr W P Cockshott | Oct 29 2022 14:42 utc | 180

Interesting interview with the head of the Ukrainian GUR (Military Intelligences). First a report about it in Russian:
https://topwar.ru/204215-nachalnik-gur-ukrainy-herson-mozhet-byt-vozvraschen-do-konca-nojabrja-a-krym-v-sledujuschem-godu.html .
Then the actual interview in English from the web site War Zone:
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraines-intel-chief-on-how-the-war-ends-putins-nuclear-threats-iranian-drones-and-more .
Mostly cheerleading, predicting Kherson will fall by the end of November, the Crimea and the annexed oblasts by the end of 2023. Says the Russians holding Kherson have 40,000 troops, mainly airborne, naval infantry, and special forces (by implication lightly armed). Admits the Ukrainians can hold on only as long as the U.S. and NATO support them. Nothing new, but reflects their outlook (or hope)at the moment.

Posted by: Seward | Oct 29 2022 14:44 utc | 181

When the SMO wraps up very soon here will it be dropped out of the news cycle as fast as Covid was?
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 29 2022 14:08 utc | 182

SMO won't end anytime soon, unless you want to say it's converted into anti-terrorist operation.
But MSM these days is saying that Ukr is winning and Russia already is leaving Donbass. Not a joke, it's what I see on TV every day. They have to keep Ukr on the news because they can't say the largest aluminum producer in Netherlands went bankrupt this week or other not important news.
Then they can move to government in exile stage, with its army in exile in those EU bases.

Posted by: rk | Oct 29 2022 14:50 utc | 182

Posted by: OdessaConnected | Oct 29 2022 0:56 utc | 93

No high rise building has ever collapsed due to a fire, much less collapse at free fall speed into the building's footprint.

The physics behind the collapse of the WTC towers is crystal clear.

ELI5 of the WTC tower collapse
Fire rages in the building.
Tremendous thermal load, hundreds of tons of jet fuel added to furniture etc.
Vertical beams (the four corners in the first place) take up heat at the inside, dissipate heat at the outside.
Steel beams expand according to teperature -> more at the inside.
Beams bow OUTWARDS, building shape becomes a "tulip".
Buidings are high, projecting expansion over a long distance
After one hour of heat accumulation:
The horizontal offset is big enough at the top. Floor joists slip off the legdes on the beams.
One floors falls down.
Floor load below exceeded.
Avalanche of floors.
Boom. Within the footprint.


There is not a single data point / calculation (from time constants to linear expansion coefficients) which does not satisfy known physical rules.
Yes, it was the first instance of buildings to collapse like this. I identify 3 factors for that: Heat load (fuel), tower height (mid-height bending opens a big enough "tulip" at the top, and construction features: The ledges holding the floors were probably a bit too small.
To question its credibility on the basis of "believe" is a personal choice, which IMHO is an affront to the thousands of victims of the tragedy. I'm still waiting for a similarily plausibe / scientifically satisfied explanation for other theories.

Posted by: OttoE | Oct 29 2022 14:54 utc | 183

The children on this MOA "Ukraine" thread may like to comment on the destruction in the Russia naval fleet.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 29 2022 14:58 utc | 184

https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/live-post/2022/10/29/colpite-4-navi-da-guerra-russe/6855513/2/

(Google Translate)

11:55

Kiev, "deputy head of the Wagner group killed"
The Ukrainian special forces unit 'Khort' reported killing the deputy chief of staff of the paramilitary company called the Wagner Group. The Kiev Independent reports. According to reports from the special forces, there was a close encounter with the Wagner Group and the mercenaries were all eliminated. In the information of the special unit the area where the clash took place is not specified but the Khort unit, also reports Kiev Independent, is included in the ranks of the 57th motorized brigade, which is currently participating in the counter-offensive in southern Ukraine.

Even if false, this is a reminder that assassination (snuff) is a western delicacy. High value targets should stay out of Ukraine, or RF should reciprocate.

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 29 2022 14:59 utc | 185

🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡️ Taking into account the October 29 this year. Kiev regime with the participation of British experts of a terrorist act against ships of the Black Sea Fleet and civilian ships involved in ensuring the security of the "grain corridor", the Russian side suspends participation in the implementation of agreements on the export of agricultural products from Ukrainian ports.

https://t.me/intelslava/40243

Posted by: Down South | Oct 29 2022 14:59 utc | 186

b has repeatedly warned against posting in the wrong thread. Yet here we are up to our necks in covid sewage. Warning! b will get this backend typepad garbage sorted, and when he does cross posters better look out.

Posted by: morongobill | Oct 29 2022 15:09 utc | 187

unimperator - you aren't wrong; there are battles still near the airport, the other commentator also wasn't wrong either in that the fight isn't for the airport proper atm. But yes fighting happening a ~1km north of the runway, the north (ring road area) toward opytne and vodyane and has been for some time isn't wrong to categorize as airport in my book. Both right\saying the same thing differently imho.

Posted by: knighthawk | Oct 29 2022 15:13 utc | 188

🇷🇺The Russian army for the first time in a long time began offensive operations. Fighting is going on near Ugledar, the RF Armed Forces are crushing the first line of defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Surovikin applies the concept of a stunning strike with the help of any available firepower - aviation and artillery are actively working on Ukrainian soldiers, suppressing the enemy with fire. The Ukrainians are suffering heavy losses.

If the operation is successful, then the RF Armed Forces will be able to break through the enemy defenses and go to the rear of the Avdiivka group of troops of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. This will allow supply lines to be taken under fire control, which will significantly reduce the threat of shelling of the Donbass by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.


https://t.me/Slavyangrad/17224

Posted by: Down South | Oct 29 2022 15:14 utc | 189

⚡️ Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine
(29 October 2022)

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation.

◽️In the Kupyansk direction, as a result of the active actions of the Russian troops, two reinforced companies of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and a unit of foreign mercenaries were defeated close to Timkovka, Ivanovka, Tabayevka, and Krakhmalnoye (Kharkov region). More than 70 Ukrainian personnel and militants, one tank, two infantry fighting vehicles, two armoured personnel carriers, and ten cars were annihilated.

💥Near Staroverovka (Kharkov region), two U.S. HIMARS MLRS installations, four tanks, 15 vehicles, a muniton depot, and 43 Ukrainian militants were neutralised by a missile strike.

◽️ In the Krasny Liman direction, the enemy carried on unsuccessful attacks by tank and motorised infantry companies in the direction of Chervonopopovka (Lugansk People's Republic).

💥 Artillery fire and army aviation strikes eliminated more than 70 Ukrainian personnel, four tanks, two armoured combat vehicles, and three pickup trucks.

◽️ In the Nikolayev–Krivoy Rog direction, the AFU launched five attacks by company tactical groups in the directions of Mylovoye, Sukhanovo, Pyatikhatki, Ishchenko, Bruskinskoye, and Sadok (Kherson region).

💥 As a result of the fire damage and successful actions of the Russian troops, the enemy was thrown back to the initial positions. More than 60 Ukrainian personnel, 17 armoured fighting vehicles, and 12 cars were destroyed.

💥 Unmanned aerial vehicles strikes successfully eliminated a Buk-M1 anti-aircraft self-propelled missile system and two U.S. M777 howitzers near Vysokopolye and Novogrigorovka (Kherson region).

💥 Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery neutralised nine AFU command posts close to Petropavlovka and Ivanovka (Kharkov region), Dopropolye, Zvanovka, Torskoye, and Vodyanoye (Donetsk People's Republic), Trifonovka, Andreyevka, and Davydov Brod (Kherson region) as well as 68 artillery units in firing positions, manpower and military equipment in 189 areas.

💥 Two ammunition depots were wiped out in the areas of the settlements of Novoaleksandrovka (Kherson region) and Kolodezi (Donetsk People's Republic).

💥 Fighter aviation of Russian Aerospace Forces has shot down 1 MiG-29 of Ukrainian Air Force near Prishib (Nikolayev region).

💥 Russia's Air Defence shot down 14 unmanned aerial vehicles close to Arapovka, Svatovo, Raevka, and Rudovo (Lugansk People's Republic), Elenovka and Shevchenko (Donetsk People's Republic), Burchak (Zaporozhye region), Novokamenka, Mylovoye, Klapaya, and Charivnoye (Kherson region).

💥 In addition, nine shells of the U.S. HIMARS MLRS were shot down near Novaya Kakhovka, Olgino, and Otradokamenka (Kherson region), as well as eight American HARM anti-radiation missiles close to Zelenovka and Antonovka (Kherson region) and Svistunovka (Lugansk People's Republic).

📊 In total, 327 airplanes and 164 helicopters, 2,370 unmanned aerial vehicles, 384 air defence missile systems, 6,162 tanks and other armoured combat vehicles, 878 combat vehicles equipped with MRLS, 3,536 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 6,863 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.

Another day, more failed attacks, and 2 more Himars launchers destroyed.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 29 2022 15:18 utc | 190

I have seen no one reference The Iran Iraq war. Parallels. Statics defense. "Human waves".

Posted by: Bills | Oct 29 2022 15:27 utc | 191

@ Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 28 2022 13:53 utc | 1


Thans for posting - an excellent article: http://johnhelmer.net/stab-in-the-back-not-one-inch-but-right-to-the-heart/

Posted by: daffyDuct | Oct 29 2022 15:28 utc | 192

Night Tripper 172

Enough is enough. Time to hit western Ukraine with a nuke. That should be enough to cool inadequate Anglo-Saxon heads.

A nuke is precisely what the West is waiting for, although I don't know their plans. Yet I do understand your wish to get back at the Brits - they have been Russia's enemies for a long time. They do everything from undercover: Sevastopol, NS1/2, Bucha, sinking the Moskwa ship, providing expert advice for Ukraine's military leaadership, right on the battlefield. Before the war, they were entertaining an armada of you-tubers and influencers spread over countries neighboring Russia, instigating, for one thing, the post-election protests in Belarus. If this war becomes WW3 they will be a major party to blame.

Posted by: grunzt | Oct 29 2022 15:30 utc | 193

@193 by your maths the chance of nuclear war should be 50% x 50% = 25%.

Posted by: Dr W P Cockshott | Oct 29 2022 14:42 utc | 198

Notwithstanding that there is no empirical or testable evidence to support Mexicana's 50/50 estimates, the probability of 2 unrelated events leading to the same outcome is additive not multiplicative. So 50% is correct.

Event A Outcomes 0/1 or 1/1
Event B Outcomes 0/1 or 1/1
Event A + B Outcomes = 2x(0/1) or 2x(1/1)

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Oct 29 2022 15:32 utc | 194

re: Posted by: Down South | Oct 29 2022 15:14 utc | 207

Some of what supposedly happened as part of that push\mini offensive.


"Forwarded from military chronicle (tg)
Attack on the "presidential" brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Vuhledar: the main thing

On the night of October 28-29, the RF Armed Forces launched an offensive against the positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Vuhledar (60 km south-west of Donetsk).

The first blow with the Giacint-B guns of the RF Armed Forces was delivered on the eastern outskirts of the city. The Krasnopol high-precision projectile destroyed the headquarters and the electronic intelligence center of the 1st operational brigade of the National Guard of Ukraine - the so-called presidential brigade.

A month ago, this formation already suffered heavy losses in Ugledar: when trying to counterattack the RF Armed Forces near Pavlovka (3 km south-west of Ugledar), the brigade lost at least four tanks and 60 people killed.

Also, the 1st and 2nd mechanized battalions of the 53rd Motorized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, armed with the Soviet Akatsiya and Gvozdika self-propelled guns, as well as American M777A2 guns, suffered heavy losses during the night strike on the rear of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Ugledar.

UAVs "Lancet" and "Cube" hit at least two Buk-M1 air defense systems covering the positions of artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to the west of Vuhledar.

During the offensive, the RF Armed Forces managed to take under fire control a large section of the Pokrovsk-Bakhmut-Mikhailovka highway to the north-east of Vugledar, along which units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine received supplies.

According to the Military Chronicle, in order to avoid the encirclement of the garrison of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Ugledar, the reserves of the 529th and 110th mechanized regiments of the 93rd OMBR “Cold Yar”, the 68th separate jaeger brigade, as well as the 24th separate assault battalion "Aidar".


---
I think a word or two is missing from the translation at the end like "withdrew" or "avoid the" is mistranslated..and doesn't belong, idk. Basically took out a C&C post, then known A2D protecting a couple of the artillery, then took out the artillery, and then proceeded to attack other targets. Vuhledar like Pisky once was, has been a tough fortress to crack, doesn't sound like they're moving in on it just yet, but trying to soften it up and cut it off first.

Posted by: knighthawk | Oct 29 2022 15:34 utc | 195

Has anyone heard of the Ukraine Sovereignty bonds that the government of Canada just announced?? Not my area of expertise at all, but according to the press release:

https://pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2022/10/28/prime-minister-announces-new-measures-support-ukraine

“The new Ukraine Sovereignty Bonds will be offered by participating financial institutions in denominations and rates of return which will be announced soon. Those who choose to invest in this bond will, in effect, be purchasing a regular Government of Canada five-year bond backed by Canada’s triple-A credit rating. Canada is the first country in the world outside of Ukraine to offer a bond for purchase in support of Ukraine.”

“The Prime Minister announced that the Government of Canada will issue Ukraine Sovereignty Bonds, which will help the government continue operations, including providing essential services to Ukrainians, like pensions, and purchasing fuel before winter. The equivalent proceeds from this five-year bond will be channelled directly to Ukraine through the International Monetary Fund’s (IMF) Administered Account.”

So this was skewered by the Sirius Report and the lengthy string of tweets is reply was quite astounding. … is this because those resource extraction projects may not get approval while Trudeau/Singh are in government? Sour grapes over something. How is this idea next-level-stupid over what everyone else is doing?? Isn’t this just facilitating remittances like is done in very many parts of the world?

https://twitter.com/thesiriusreport/status/1586280053054312449

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 29 2022 15:35 utc | 196

Can anyone tell me how true the claim of hundreds of thousands of russians leaving to avoid draft is?
thx

Posted by: southfront fan | Oct 29 2022 15:38 utc | 197

oops... I got that wrong.

The probability of 2 coin flips with heads leading to nuclear war is 75% not 50%

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Oct 29 2022 15:40 utc | 198

Statement of the Russian Foreign Ministry on the "Black Sea initiative" for the export of Ukrainian agricultural products:

On October 29, Ukrainian army, under cover of a humanitarian corridor created as part of the implementation of the “Black Sea Initiative” to export Ukrainian agricultural products, launched massive air and sea strikes using unmanned aerial vehicles against the ships and infrastructure of the Russian Black Sea Fleet at the naval base in Sevastopol, Crimea, South Russia.

In connection with the actions of the Ukrainian armed forces, led by British specialists, directed, among other things, against Russian ships that ensure the functioning of the specified humanitarian corridor (which cannot be qualified otherwise than as a terrorist attack), the Russian side cannot guarantee the safety of civilian dry cargo ships participating in the "Black Sea Initiative ”, and suspends its implementation from today for an INDEFINITE period. Corresponding instructions were given to Russian representatives at the Joint Coordination Center in Istanbul, which controls the transportation of Ukrainian food.

Russia considering statement of Russian Ministry of Defense on involvement of British specialists in drone attack on the ships of the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol - Russian Foreign Ministry.

Russia repeatedly called for joint investigation of terrorist attacks (on Nord Stream), proposals sent to the governments of Denmark, Sweden and Germany, fact that West refused proposal confirms they have something to hide - Comment from Russian Foreign Ministry.

Posted by: Jax | Oct 29 2022 15:41 utc | 199

On the grain deal immediate suspension. Good, it was being abused to hell, and from what I understand most the UA grain wasn't going to where it was supposedly supposed to go anyway (no surprise). I don't think there was any way in hell RU was going renew it anyway after it auto-expired a few weeks from now. Thanks for that though I'd missed that detail in tg travels today.

Posted by: knighthawk | Oct 29 2022 15:41 utc | 200

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