Ukraine Open Thread 2022-185
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
Please stick to the topic.
The current open thread for other issues is here.
Posted by b on October 27, 2022 at 11:31 UTC | Permalink
next page »I am perplexed where the Ukrainian side find the manpower to keep up these offensives and take these losses of men and equipment and yet continue on? Where are the Russian offensives? Why is Bakhmut not taken?
Posted by: Deplorable Cro magno | Oct 27 2022 11:48 utc | 2
From a previous Ukraine thread.
@ SeanAU | Oct 27 2022 10:14 utc | 276
.... fears a full on NATO attack...
Posted by: watcher | Oct 27 2022 10:07 utc | 275
What would such a feared attack look like? Can you describe what would be involved militarily?
--
I am pretty much convinced that a lot more goes on behind the Telegram and Twitter channels and a thick filter over all the media.
But I am happy to be given the opportunity to speculate.
Such attack will not happen.
To make any conventional military move on such scale as a pre-emptive strike is not really realistic today.
Any preparation and a move is registered far in-depth of the both sides and tracked in real time, visually, electronically, in signals and comms - across many spectrums.
What I mean it is not a WW2 '..but, sir, on Monday they were seen there', however, a some ruse and the idea of provoking RF is still actual and very possible.
By sinking and destroying some RF ships, bridges and logistic knots, launch bases and sites NATO might try to neuter RF.
I doubt that NATO can just teleport missiles and planes just like that, but one never knows and it is a try that counts.
Do not forget that Biden & Co. are parroting over and over again:
'We warn Putin not to use nukes.'
It is pushed all over the western media.
To me, as it seems now, a narrative slowly arises on a possibility of neutralising RF nuclear launch sites from US submarines in Arab Sea and Med, meaning that the idea is to disarm RF before they react.
That is in my opinion a far-fetched pipe dream of certain folks in WH and Pentagon, as it was played on a simulator and had possibly showed some positive, but simulated results.
I mean, I seriously doubt on any nuclear confrontation with an assumption that only one side wins.
There is a no a 'win-lose' modus.
Just lost as an end result for both sides.
I would advise NATO/US not to try to play or apply a 'game theory' here.
When we will know that nuke exchange is happening if RF reacts to a possible attempt to be neutralised?
We will suddenly have no internet, looking up in the sky you will see traces of destroyed satellites falling through the atmosphere.
Possibly Aegis sites and some AA command centres in EU will be blown up by conventional hypersonics.
Maybe some US fleet carriers and subs in Adriatic and the nearest in Pacific might get blast. Also probably conventional. Many subs on both sides sunk too. Some will survive.
Possibly, some salvoes of EMP missiles (LoAlt-EMP) might go over the strategic centres of NATO Wiesbaden, Rammstein, Brussels, London and some 5 eyes radar-stations go boom, too. All digital data gone over vast areas of EU.
From US military sources:
Theoretically, Russian invasion of NATO by 300,000 troops, 36,000 tanks and other vehicles, and 1,000 aircraft could overrun NATO paralyzed by EMP attack and outgunned by tactical nuclear weapons 10-to-1. A single nuclear weapon detonated 60 kilometers above NATO HQ in Brussels would generate a paralyzing HEMP field from Poland to Scotland, like a magic carpet to the English Channel.
That is just intro and a prep.
And it all happens almost instantaneously.
Say in 10-20 minutes since the decision.
Potentially then NATO wants to talk and using phone landlines calls RF frantically about, but no one picks up.
Then real nuke missiles start to fly all over and no one knows what happens thereafter.
I do not know what primary targets are to go first, but at that stage it is not really important any more.
Issue, is that all sides will be badly damaged for years to come and World as we know it, its orders and values will be gone.
That is how I see it. Not fun.
However, will NATO or RF do all that for the corrupt and measly, already devastated Ukraine? Perhaps. Or not.
Putin's speech was great, but if one side is filled with hatred as NATO and Ukraine are, I have no idea how one can offer a friendly hand to them.
Claiming that Russia doesn't see the West as an enemy is noble and a modest trial to calm things a bit down.
What I understand is that NATO and its Western partners will continue to apply a brute force, adding endless mocking and one systematic institutionally hatred towards RF.
Basically a full spectrum cancel and negation of RF.
Putin and RF are patient, realistic and a common sense people, but confronted with such demonic powers as NATO/West are, I doubt that it makes sense to act and try to be nice as RF does.
I think it is a counter-productive manner to resist and defeat the West/NATO.
I think RF can overcome this, by actually winning big and quickly over all of Ukraine, showing the real strength of its military, tech and people.
Kinda what RF is doing, but it should be multiplied by 10 fold, as probably doesn't come cheap on the RF budget, but builds people's confidence lot more than what are pacing steps now. It should be seen as an investment.
Only applying a massive and terrible force, day in day out, smart but regular destruction of infrastructure and all the Ukrainian military everywhere.
Only like that NATO will back down and probably prove as being useless to anyone ever since end of 1990's.
Posted by: whirlX | Oct 27 2022 18:48 utc | 3
@b #1
I for one find @Down South's postings quite helpful at giving a basic picture of the ongoing situation in the Ukraine. I feel the smaller pictures are quite relevant to seeing the overall big picture.
Thank you so much for maintaining this blog,and my sanity, from a long time lurker from Billmon days.
Posted by: Pete P | Oct 27 2022 18:50 utc | 4
I would like to cast a vote for Down South's postings. I have tried a few times to join Telegram but for some reason it never goes through.
So I appreciate it when Down South lets me and others know what is going on.
This war is anxiety producing. I live in the US and I can tell you that our rulers are batshit crazy war mongers.
How will Russia deal with them? Will Russia be able to put a stop to them without them blowing up the world?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 27 2022 19:02 utc | 5
Like others, I enjoyed DownSouth’s choice of reposts from elsewhere.
B, would it be okay for him to still post a few?
Posted by: klik | Oct 27 2022 19:04 utc | 6
Like others, I enjoyed DownSouth’s choice of reposts from elsewhere.
B, would it be okay for him to still post a few?
Posted by: klik | Oct 27 2022 19:05 utc | 7
Radio silence on the Improvised Nuclear Device (IND) or "dirty bomb" especially among the "alternate media".
What's the situation? Is that story finished? Calm before the (nuclear) storm?
What's going on?
Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Oct 27 2022 19:06 utc | 8
About the "Slowness" of Russia’s Military Operation
(excerpt from Stalker Zone, my emphasis)
... we are all not very happy with the fact that the advance of our troops is slow... the tasks of the [SMO] did not include the capture of territories. It comes as a bonus. The task was to demilitarise,... to destroy the enemy army.
... it is much easier to defend than to attack... this is what we are now seeing: their units are being killed one by one against our defence lines... if we measure success not by occupied territories, but by demilitarisation, then things are... moving well
... an offensive will have to be carried out sooner or later, but this should be done when the enemy’s numbers are noticeably reduced, and our army, on the contrary, grows via the mobilised. Until then,... ours will sit on the defensive or advance/retreat smoothly, depending on the situation at the front.
Western sources report that the Ukrainian Armed Forces have already irretrievably lost 450,000 fighters. Our experts say that this number is too high, a more realistic figure is 250,000-300,000.
Posted by: OttoE | Oct 27 2022 19:06 utc | 9
@ Deplorable Cro magno | Oct 27 2022 11:48 utc | 2
I suspect that it is because the RU force ratios are not large enough to overwhelm the entrenched UA forces. Therefore, one is consigned to a 'slow grind'. I'm not sure the Russian command planned for it to go this slow, but that is what it is.
Will there be an effort to boost the RU forces? ... I suspect so, but it will not come until December or January when the ground is frozen deep for heavy tanks to roll across fields and thus encircle the UA in cauldrons.
Also, the US elections are nearing. ... While everyone is focused on 'Who will take the Congress?', the real issue to watch will be the CHAOS that will follow. I suspect that the Kremlin is betting that Washington will be in such disarray for weeks (even months?) following the election, that they will become both desperately dangerous and inept in their foreign policy. With winter setting in, Europeans tired of playing 'America's poodle' will be able to take advantage of their ineptness and and start to break on sanctions and other policy issues. ... Patience while the West unravels.
Posted by: Mummer | Oct 27 2022 19:07 utc | 10
#2:
Why so impatient? Russia isn't going to lose good soldiers fighting hand-to-hand in Bakhmut when it just has to wait and incessantly bomb a Ukrainian force unable to leave or get resupplied as the winter approaches. Also, why shorten the torturous collapse of the West when it could be prolonged to even more devastating ends? Russia and China have been propitiously given the means and opportunity for a complete takedown of NATO and the entire Western financial and military alliance--don't deprive them of the opportunity to watch in slomo the West twisting in its own rope!
Posted by: FHTEX | Oct 27 2022 19:10 utc | 11
Regarding multiple references to Telegram:
If this place (MoA) is supposed to be something like an online bar where people meet and talk a bit and exchange information, the mass postings of Telegram bits would be the equivalent of a guy pointing at his phone repeatedly and say "Hey have you seen this? Have you seen this? And have you seen this?..." and so on. Which kills the conversation quickly. So I can see how toning it down a bit might be a good thing.
Posted by: Roland | Oct 27 2022 19:17 utc | 12
1 - I'm still appalled at how the Progressives are a bunch of spineless cowards. Retracted a mild letter simply asking for some diplomacy within 24 hours. Bunch of pus$$ies!
2 - Looks like the Russian minister of defense did us all a service by calling his counterparts on the phone directly and exposing the dirty bomb scenario.
3 - New find Jacob Dreizin writes some good stuff. And very funny too! (No worries B, you and Saker are still my faves!) https://thedreizinreport.com/2022/10/25/return-of-the-living-check/
4 - Is the current consensus here that Russia is winning, despite its slow pace, and that without direct intervention by NATO, things will be wrapped up by the spring?
Posted by: Anonymous | Oct 27 2022 19:17 utc | 13
Although I dont really have an answer to your question, I suspect that the AFU forces are being "supplimented" by soldiers from other nations. Certain there are videos providing evidence of that. I get the sense that RF forces are doing things in a calculated way manner to avoid losses and going "Full Grozny" unless they need to. Then there is the matter of getting the force multipliers up to speed and in place. So many posters are all:'Rah-Rah, Attack!' and this is merely a product of hollywoodized perceptions of war. Why would an armed force combat assault an enemy who has been dug in for 8 years and has numerical superiority?! Quite a bit of softening up is required. Also, judging from the videos I keep seeing, the AFU forces are being forced to mass-up and charge into the waiting walls of Russia artillery. As the saying goes: if it aint broke....
Keep in mind that the "book" of combined arms operations is being updated as we type comfortably from the armchair generals study. In a similar manner to the application of limited forces in Syria, the SMO is a new entity. I dont pretend to have any special insight, and there are far more informed people than myself. One can however make some reasonable assumptions about what may be happening.
Up until recently the lights stayed on in Kiev. Due to one thing and another the Ukrainian power grid and the means to stay healthy and alive and being is being seriously degraded. This will add to the already considerable drain on the EU and the USA, as they are basically funding the entire nation and the war effort at this juncture. The flood of refugees into an already strained EU will add to this effect. As Russia has slowly turned up the pain dial, they have offered to ease off if concessions are made. From Minsk 1 to the present day, the answer has always been 'nyet!', erasing any doubt as to who is really calling the shots. Remembering that this whole event is tied to something much greater and that time is on Russias side, there is no incentive to rush things. Also: this Something Greater is for all the marbles.
Posted by: Chevrus | Oct 27 2022 19:19 utc | 14
One big thumbs-up for Down South’s posts. For b’s characteristic pissiness: not so much.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 27 2022 19:20 utc | 15
Postings failed for some time …
@DCM #2
Perhaps losses are above expectations on both sides … changes in military staff and leadership … logistics … failure to destroy NATO arms as soon as shipments enter Ukraine … at the start of the operation that seemed feasible … new campaign with tactical drone strikes … failure to eliminate gps reception or satellite communication used by NATO elements to target RF weapons, warehouses and front battle lines.
@Down South
Please continue posting here all the minor tactical stuff from Telegram, it’s valuable color.
Thank you
Posted by: Exile | Oct 27 2022 19:29 utc | 17
i too like down south posting.. maybe he could do less, but i have appreciated their posts... ditto the person who does the military summary posts...
Posted by: james | Oct 27 2022 19:35 utc | 18
NATO must have planned for Ukraine to turn into multiple Groznys, with probably the worlds largest supply of ATMs and Manpads, not to mention the worlds best satellite intel.
A conventional Russian invasion would have been a disaster.
Posted by: Johnycomelately | Oct 27 2022 19:35 utc | 19
Hear, hear, whirlx!
Today I went to exhibition of Raymond Briggs famous (in UK at least) for children’s books Father Christmas, Snowman, Fungus the Bogeyman among many others. Most relevantly he created When the Wind Blows which was in the same style (I.e. cartoon) but about an elderly couple following UK guidelines for what to do in the event of nuclear attack. When it comes they die from effects of radiation. All the more effective for being as cartoon.
When I mentioned to another visitor how topical it was they genuinely didn’t know what I was referring to… Such is the scale of ignorance in UK from top to bottom!
Posted by: Mothy_Jim | Oct 27 2022 19:40 utc | 20
I think the telegram postings are much less distracting than the endless repetitions of stupidities by the trolls. It's not my blog and it remains for the host to decide, but I do prefer a 1000 Down South posts over one of Zanon, JoeXXX etc. In every bar there is some gossip too, isn't there?
Posted by: Anthony | Oct 27 2022 19:40 utc | 21
I think the telegram postings are much less distracting than the endless repetitions of stupidities by the trolls. It's not my blog and it remains for the host to decide, but I do prefer a 1000 Down South posts over one of Zanon, JoeXXX etc. In every bar there is some gossip too, isn't there?
Posted by: Anthony | Oct 27 2022 19:41 utc | 22
I think the telegram postings are much less distracting than the endless repetitions of stupidities by the trolls. It's not my blog and it remains for the host to decide, but I do prefer a 1000 Down South posts over one of Zanon, JoeXXX etc. In every bar there is some gossip too, isn't there?
Posted by: Anthony | Oct 27 2022 19:44 utc | 23
Sorry guys, this is B's blog.
If anyone is that interested in Down South's Telegram posts, why not just subscribe to the source channels and follow them there? It's not rocket science.
I don't understand the point of lobbying or voting for second hand info being selectively spoon fed onto this blog, when the person running it went out of his way to politely communicate his wishes on the matter.
Now, more to the point... where did my last comment disappear to? :)
Posted by: Et Tu | Oct 27 2022 19:45 utc | 24
Irony ... The call to ban Telegram postings on this chat page has only resulted in an incessant debate over the value of such postings, or not.
The lesson? ... Be careful for what you ask for.
Posted by: Mummer | Oct 27 2022 19:48 utc | 25
One big thumbs-up for Down South’s posts. For b’s characteristic pissiness: not so much.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 27 2022 19:20 utc | 15
Still, it is b's bar, and he has the right to set some rules if he likes. If that makes you unhappy then start your own bar.
Posted by: Ed Nelson | Oct 27 2022 19:50 utc | 26
Deplorable Cro magno
Because Russia cannot wage wars, they are incompetent - obviously after 8 months they have managed what goal? There are so many blunders past 8 months I have begun to forget them.
The ukrainians want to fight especially if they manage to get Russia to retreat as Russia seems to do almost everywhere past months.
Compare the ukrainian solderis with the pro-russian volunteers, they have no protection, no strategy, no high tech arms/tech like Nato/US armed and led ukrainian forces.
Remember Russia already lost more troops than US did in 10 year-Iraq-War. And more tanks already. And this war have not even been 1 year yet!
Posted by: Zanon | Oct 27 2022 19:51 utc | 27
Below is a quote from a ZH piece
As Bloomberg just reported, the Pentagon's new National Defense Strategy rejects limits on using nuclear weapons long championed by arms control advocates (and, in the not too distant past, by Joe Bide) citing burgeoning threats from Russia and China.“By the 2030s the United States will, for the first time in its history face two major nuclear powers as strategic competitors and potential adversaries,” the Defense Department said in the long-awaited document issued Thursday. In response, the US will “maintain a very high bar for nuclear employment” without ruling out using the weapons in retaliation to a non-nuclear strategic threat to the homeland, US forces abroad or allies.
In yet another stark reversal for the senile occupant of the White House basement, in his 2020 presidential campaign Biden had pledged to declare that the US nuclear arsenal should be used only to deter or retaliate against a nuclear attack, a position blessed by progressive Democrats and reviled by defense hawks. But, like with every other position held by the pathological liar who even trumps Trump in the untruth department, this one has just been reversed as well as "the threat environment has changed dramatically since then" and the Pentagon strategy was forged in cooperation with the flip-flopping White House.
In a stunning move that should - or rather "should" - spark outrage among the so-called progressives but will at best prompt some very sternly retracted letters, the nuclear report that’s part of the broader strategy said the Biden administration reviewed its nuclear policy and concluded that “No First Use” and “Sole Purpose” policies “would result in an unacceptable level of risk in light of the range of non-nuclear capabilities being developed and fielded by competitors that could inflict strategic-level damage” to the US and allies.
I live in America but it is not my country anymore and it has become a tool of God Of Mammon evil
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 27 2022 19:52 utc | 28
@#4, #4, #5, #6, #7, #15, #17, #18:
I'll buck the trend here, I side with b! Too much chatter is sheer clutter. I hope posters use judgement and spare readers of clutters.
It was the same with vk, who blabbled on and on about Marxism and his other favorite points to ad nauseam, antonym who needles China on anything that comes to mind, and a few here who still belabour the pros and cons of COVID jabbing.
Points had been made. Let's move on. Spare us all of chatters
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Oct 27 2022 19:52 utc | 29
LOL all you whining about Telegram posts. You can all browse these channels yourself you know, you do not have to be a member.
And if I understand b right he did not banned Telegram links, he just said to 1 specific commentator to stop spamming with Telegram-links in every post.
Posted by: Zanon | Oct 27 2022 19:54 utc | 30
whirlX | Oct 27 2022 18:48 utc | 3
You should know who the primary targets would be. The instigators not the mutts in between. ie. The US.
In any conflict, the civilians take the largest toll. They are undefended. Behind them, the soldiers. In the Mud. Behind them the "technicals" and the localised command centres. Possibly in other limitrophe countries with satellite linkage.
Going further afield comes the top command, sitting in warm comfortable Bunkers under mountains, (Cheyenne mountain?) with swimming pools and all the comforts imaginable dug in underneath. Plus playmates and a good drug supply for the centuries of winter to come.
Normally what has happened in the past is that the top "echelons" have spared their equivalents as they themselves might become targets. We are in a "civilizational" war, with theft of assets and elimination of unecessary people as the "desired" result. (Think Ghaddafi or Sadaam Hussein).
None of the Russian top command would be spared.
So, inevitably the reaction/ripost would be against the top level in the US. Europe would just become a desert in which to send in drones when bored.
****
Just to be a bit more serious, I have read on a previous thread here, (SusanB?) about long term effects of radiation on genetics. Nowadays we must add in genetic deformation by other chemical and pharmaceutical means. None of which are forseeable in their entirety.
The term "fish fingers" takes on new meaning.
Posted by: Stonebird | Oct 27 2022 19:54 utc | 31
There is lots of wishful thinking in the G-7 regarding
VVP's committment to the SMO....
At the Valdai Meeting VVP said....
"Putin was indignant at the fact that the poorest countries are not given Russian fertilizers stuck in European ports (300 thousand tons), which the Russian Federation is ready to give to African countries for free.
❗️The West just wants to rob Russia again. The West's concern for needy countries is a lie!
❗️The economic blitzkrieg of the West against the Russian Federation has failed, Putin said.
The world authorities show an attempt to establish one right - that the authorities have the opportunity to live without any rules. [...] The West has taken a number of steps in recent months to escalate, they always act to aggravate.
▪️Power over the world is what the West has staked.
▪️The world is witnessing the degradation of world institutions, the erosion of the principle of collective security, the substitution of international law for “rules”.
▪️The West has taken a number of steps in recent months to escalate, they always act to aggravate.
▪️The West is fomenting a war in Ukraine, destabilizing the global food and energy markets, and organizing provocations around Taiwan.
▪️Events are still developing according to a negative scenario - they have grown into a large-scale crisis.
▪️Russia's confidence-building proposals have been tossed aside.
▪️There are two ways for mankind: to accumulate a load of problems or to find not ideal, but working solutions.
There is an attempt to introduce a rule allowing the 'powers that be' to do whatever they want with impunity.
▪️The West has taken several steps towards escalation, fuelling the Ukraine conflict, provoking destabilization of Taiwan and global food prices.
▪️The West's game is bloody, dangerous and dirty. It denies the sovereignty of countries and peoples. He who sows the wind will reap the whirlwind.
▪️ The world is witnessing the degradation of world institutions, the erosion of the principle of collective security, the substitution of international law for “rules”
▪️Even at the height of the Cold War, nobody denied the existence of the culture and art of the other. In the West, any alternative point of view is declared subversive.
The Nazis went as far as burning books. Now the Western fathers of liberalism have reached the ban on Dostoevsky.
The collapse of the Soviet Union destroyed the balance of forces. The West felt like a winner and proclaimed a unipolar world order in which only its will, culture, and interests had the right to exist. Now this historical period of undivided dominance in world affairs is coming to an end. The unipolar world is becoming a thing of the past. We are standing at a historical milestone. Ahead is the most dangerous, unpredictable and at the same time important decade since the end of the Second World War. The West is not capable of governing humanity alone, but it is desperately trying to do so. And most of the peoples of the world no longer want to put up with this. This is the main contradiction of the new era. In the words of the classics, the situation is, to a certain extent, revolutionary - the upper classes cannot, and the lower classes do not want to live like this anymore."
Doesn't sound like a guy ready to quit to me....
INDY
"
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 27 2022 19:56 utc | 32
revised nuclear use posture by pentagon.
first use for even non nuke threats
Posted by: hankster | Oct 27 2022 19:58 utc | 33
lets not hope that Europe is to get tired of serving USA interests.
I cannot imagine that.
Posted by: marko | Oct 27 2022 19:58 utc | 34
Deplorable Cro magno @ 2
I am perplexed where the Ukrainian side find the manpower to keep up these offensives and take these losses of men and equipment and yet continue on? Where are the Russian offensives? Why is Bakhmut not taken?
Lots of lying all around. Many here believe what's coming out of the MoD is true or at least "proper" due to the worthiness of cause: self defense; multipolarism; ending USA hegemony; and abiding respect for what they accomplished in WW2, being on the side of the RF which suggests they have no need to obfuscate and fabricate. I was a kid during Vietnam but even as a kid I soon caught on that the nightly news on TV and the DoD reports were 100% bullshit. All militaries are the same in this regard.
Telegram is just people in a closed room sniffing each other farts and, in a way mysterious to me, monetizing the blended fragrance, it's just social media entertainment and little more. Regarding the war there’s no real news on this forum either just recycled TG info. I've first discovered MoA from links from Naked Cap way back around the 2008 crash. I come here for the geo-political analysis and the knowledgeable historical insights. As for the UKR war the speculation here, and I stress speculation, and there is a place for speculation, is about the best you can find in an imploding universe.
Roland @ 12
Brilliant. Shot of top-shelf on me, cheers.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 27 2022 19:59 utc | 35
#DCM2
One previous poster said that it was down to, among other things, the superior air and heavy weaponry available to the Russian troops on top of a reluctance to commit personnel at a point when time is on Putin's side in the Eastern region.
These are obviously valid observations.
In addition to this there is the actual battle field territory, open steppes, that the AFU forces are trying to cross in their offensive manoeuvres and, if the reports are correct, suffering significant losses in the process.
Why would the forces of Russia and the Eastern provinces put their personnel into the same abattoir, when they can wait for the AFU forces to exhaust themselves.
One interesting thing I heard was that the Petagon and NATO are now scouring Syria to find reinforcements, and offering serious spondulicks to anyone willing to sign up.
Just to put this in perspective, democracy in Ukraine is now being defended by batallions of Nazi's, Isis and Al Queda.
You couldn't make it up.
Posted by: Orchard1 | Oct 27 2022 20:07 utc | 36
Personally I like posts that reproduce or link to external content about the Ukrainian conflict. Those sorts of posts are the main reason I come to the "Open Thread" comment section here. As for being too tactical, I'd rather read a snippet that reports a (possibly) concrete fact than yet-another-grandiose, speculative pontification by someone on the epic struggle between the forces of dark hegemony and sovereign light.
Posted by: Mike314159 | Oct 27 2022 20:11 utc | 37
If I want to read telegram, I go to it on my phone or laptop.
A few important points from TG are okay.
20+ posts in one thread are a bit much.
I appreciate the efforts of Down South, but it needs to be toned down some.
As others have said, this is b's bar. You dont like the rules, start your own
Posted by: JoeDontSurf | Oct 27 2022 20:15 utc | 38
dear b, i too would appreciate your allowing down south to continue posting his summaries. i like others cannot access telegram & down south's posts are very important to me. thank you, b, for hosting this site & for providing us with truth in this fog of war.
Posted by: emersonreturn | Oct 27 2022 20:15 utc | 39
This blog is my get to go, not only for B posts, but for comments, such as Karloff, much appreciated btw.Thank you.
1) Smootiex has become an echo chamber, no one is better, and john helmer is an idiot too, according to a host of a blog, he thinks he is the genius understanding everything.Lame.
2) The saker, always late and playing a victim of russian hate, he is boring and always behind real happenings. His site has become the aggregate, always late after the happenings. btw, he sh.t himself before and stop posting for months.Coward.
Posted by: stranger | Oct 27 2022 20:18 utc | 41
Just to put this in perspective, democracy in Ukraine is now being defended by batallions of Nazi's, Isis and Al Queda.
You couldn't make it up.
Posted by: Orchard1 | Oct 27 2022 20:07 utc | 36
Really very "on Brand" for the USA since Bush-Cheney. Cheney really was a violent-minded politician in the style of Winnie Churchill. That was when the use of terrorism and torture as tools came back into favor. "Zero Dark 30" and all that other horseshit. "Strike Back". Jeebus.
Obomber was as usual very hypocritical about it, let's do it but not talk about it.
But violence to get your way has always been very popular here. They fought the natives here and when they weren't doing that they fought each other.
Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 27 2022 20:19 utc | 42
I find that the telegram posts are useful, particularly because certain channels are blocked in most of Europe, whether you are signed up to Telegram or not, and you can't get around that by changing your dns server. Slavyangrad was blocked a while back, reappeared a couple of weeks ago, but seems to have been blocked again a couple of hours ago. Sputnik was blocked about the time Slavyangrad reappeared, and still is. Some of us have no way to read those posts except when they are quoted here.
Posted by: Jim | Oct 27 2022 20:21 utc | 43
Much hoping the Chinese will abandon the Russians in the G7...
However.....
Foreign Minister Wang Yi:
▪️ "Any attempt to hinder the progress of China and Russia will not succeed."
▪️ "The Chinese side intends to deepen contacts with Russia at all levels, promote the continuous advancement of Russian-Chinese relations and cooperation in all areas, so as to bring even greater benefits to the two countries and peoples, and ensure stability in an unstable world."
▪️ "In the future, China will strongly support the Russian side to ensure that, under the leadership of President Vladimir Putin, the Russian people overcome difficulties, remove all obstacles and realize the goals of the development strategy, and make further progress in strengthening Russia's status as a power in the international arena." TASS
https://t.me/shuohuaxia/8182
I don't think so.....
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 27 2022 20:23 utc | 44
Earlier this week, the Ukies crowed about how they, using their HIMARS, attacked the Chechen Militia's HQ inflicting many casualties. This resulted in Kadyrov's speech threatening to NUKE the Ukies. Kadyrov speaks further...
Many people know that at the beginning of this week one of the Chechen units came under Ukrainian shelling. This happened in the Kherson region. All rescue operations at the site have been completed and there is a final list of dead and injured.
23 soldiers were killed and 58 were wounded .Of these 58 people, four were seriously injured and fortunately their lives are not in danger.
Moreover, on the same day, as an act of retribution, our fighters carried out a sortie, during which about 70 Bandera men were sent straight to hell( 70 soldiers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces were killed) .
For our part, we will always take care of the families of the dead BROTHERS & Of course, no earthly blessings will return the dead, but it is our duty to take care and help their families. We must somehow alleviate their pain, help in the future, resolve existing issues. We allocate 1 million rubles for the funeral of each soldier who died in the SMO zone, and the state pays another 12 million to the families of the dead and the wounded soldiers receive three million rubles,
In addition, for the families of the victims, we provide a pilgrimage to the holy Mecca( Saudi Arabia).
We are indebted to the mothers who gave their people such sons!
Revenge of the Chechens will be sweet...
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 27 2022 20:27 utc | 45
Posted by: SeanAU | Oct 27 2022 11:44 utc | 253
Tried to post this yesterday. It failed. Trying again
Yes of course. The USA was keen to attack Russia from the early 2000s once it was clear that the Yeltsin patsies were no longer there to allow US multinationals to rip off Russian assets. What did you think the Georgian was was all about- tiddlywinks. This was well before Crimea and EuroMaidan.
Look Sean it is not hard to understand and is in fact as old as human kind or at least as old as there have been warlike chieftains. When there is a dominant tribe, they will try to undermine any rival tribes that emerge. The USA has been top tog since 1945 and once the USSR collapsed in 1990, the USA has had the world pretty much to itself- to run as it pleases, to destroy as it pleases.
Trouble is that things rarely stay stable. First Putin (and others) dragged Russia out of the mud and rubble of the 1990s, so that by about 2005 it was a regional rival, (say like Iran), by 2010 a more significant rival and therefore one to be crushed. What do you thing the Ukrainian coup was all about. Why was the US aka Victoria Nuland involved. The reason is obvious ie to prevent or break the alliance between Ukraine and Russia. I say coup because it was less that 12 months to a scheduled presidential election. Moreover it was all about getting a US/NATO base in Crimea. Russia would have lost its major warm water port. Strategic disaster for Russia. If Putin had allowed it to happen he would have been as negligent and stupid as Gorbachov.
So yes the USA would love to attack Russia, just as they attacked Iraq. The only reason for hesitating it the possibility of losing.
Then of course there is the China factor. The USA would love to crush Russia because it had lots of natural resources and because having lots of nukes makes it dangerous. However the REAL threat to the USA, economically, militarily and culturally is China. Have a good look at a map. Essentially the USA needs to crush or weaken Russia sufficiently for it to allow US troops/bases close to the border with China. Otherwise, attacking China using naval resources alone is not sustainable.
So both Russia and China fear a US attack, because that is what big dominant powers do to their rivals. It is not peace and light- it is meerkat society at its height. I am keen for a Russian win, because it is the only way to restrain the USA. I do not necessarily say that Russia or china are perfect and possibly we (or my descendants) could come back in 70 years if say China becomes the dominant world hegemon, and we might well support some new challenger because China had overreached too. perhaps India or Brazil or even Russia once again may be the new challengers.
Sean neither WWI nor WWII were really about noble allies fighting for justice. They were just shades of the same great power rivalry. In 1914, the UK had two major rivals, Russia and Germany. Consistent with long held doctrine, UK decided to weaken the strongest land power in Europe which was at that time Germany. (One book I have read recently suggests that it was a close run thing ie which would UK fight- Russia or Germany). To achieve the end it allied itself with France and Russia, with Germany forced to ally itself with the remaining great European powers- Austria and Turkey. the USA stayed clear and intervened on the winning side when it was safe to do so, and essentially won the war from all the players. Substitute China for Germany and we have the situation today.
WWII was simply a rematch, since Germany had re-emerged from the ashes of WWI to again be a threat. Once again the UK couldn't decide who it hated most - Germany or the USSR and it was a very, very, very close run thing as to which would be the enemy. You probably bought the Mills and Boon romance idea about Edward VI abdicating for love of Wallis Simpson, but it was rather more to do with here er ah very close relationship with the German ambassador. The elite of the UK were very divided with many wanting to fight Russia before Germany. The USA elites were also divided with old Joe Kennedy (JFK's dad) very much in the pro Germany camp. Many strongly religious types, especially those of Irish Catholic descent, were especially hostile to the USSR because of its crack down on religion.
So yes Russia and China fear US attack, as well they should. If it were not for MAD this attack would have happened 30 years ago.
Posted by: watcher | Oct 27 2022 20:30 utc | 46
Here's a tip for those who want to read Telegram without the need for reporting every post from a channel.
If Down South posts a link to Slavyangrad post, right click on the link and open it in another tab.
At the top of the Telegram link that opened in the other tab, click on the blue portion that says Slavyangrad. This will open another tab.
Click the "preview channel" link at the bottom of Slavyangrads banner.
You can now view every post from Slavyangrad's channel.
Same goes for Azmilitary, IntelSlavaZ, etc.
If you dont have Telegram on your phone or desktop, some videos may be too big to show. This is the price you pay for not installing Telegram on your device.
Word of warning. Many of these videos are large in size. They will take up a sizable chuck of the storage on your device. I installed on my phone so I could install on my desktop. Once on my desktop, I removed it from my phone. In less than 1 month, TG took over 8GB of storage up on my phone.
Posted by: JoeDontSurf | Oct 27 2022 20:30 utc | 47
"Nuclear blackmail. Escalation scenarios. Konstantin Sivkov"
over at the Saker is a must read.
Posted by: Per/Norway | Oct 27 2022 20:32 utc | 48
@ LightYearsFromHome | Oct 27 2022 19:59 utc | 35
Thanks for the shot, but I actually don't like what you say.
First of all this notion of "everybody lies" is far to vague and ultimately misleading. Russian officials (not mere "commentators", of whom some indeed blabber a lot) have given us preciously litte reason to doubt their general assesments, while the Ukrainian side has been doing that repeatedly.
And there is useful information on Telegram, one just has to weed through it a little bit. I also don't mind it posted _occasionally_. Here, I'll try it myself:
On two news aggregators (one of them actually Slavyangrad: https://t.me/Slavyangrad/17003 ) I read that Ukrainian and Polish forces within Ukraine were fighting against each other, apparently because the Poles did not want to be used as cannon fodder. 30-50 Ukrainians appear to have fallen to that.
Which would show 2 things for me. One is that they use some of the foreign forces as cannon fodder and control them through some kind of "political commissars". But I think most of us knew that already. The other thing is, well, for a dedicated Polish force to resist, allegedly killing multiple dozen Ukrainians, they would have to be at least company size I'd reckon, maybe even reaching towards battalion size. Which would be quite a development for this conflict. Sending some guys over as mercs or volunteers is one thing. For them to build up dedicated forces within Ukraine another. I hope there will be more information on it. Maybe even our esteemed host could find out more about it.
Posted by: Roland | Oct 27 2022 20:34 utc | 49
Lindsey Snell @LindseySnell - 12:01 UTC · Oct 17, 2022Germany withholding a tweet showing Azov fighters in Ukraine doing the heil Hitler salute on the basis of the law against Nazi symbols is amazing irony. The German gov can fund and arm them, but journalists can’t show photos of them proudly exhibiting their white supremacy.
Posted by: S | Oct 27 2022 20:35 utc | 50
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Oct 27 2022 19:52 utc | 29
But what does that leave us with? Where is the old left Marxist analysis now? You're just glad vk has gone because you didn't like him or his views, but you're dressing your prejudice up in high-minded clutter-police moralising, which is the worst kind of dishonesty. I thought vk's weekly wraps provocative, annoying at times, overbearing, but part of the tapestry of this site. It's b's bar, so he can kick people out. But the other tut-tutters and finger-wagging mammies can bugger off.
Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 27 2022 20:37 utc | 51
Posted by: JoeDontSurf | Oct 27 2022 20:30 utc | 47
you can not blame telegram for ur settings on the app😂
You can set auto delete media and you can manually delete all vids you do not want.
Setting for auto download is also helpful in keeping telegram pruned👍
I am a bit biased tho, i hate the windows version,. No auto translate, and most channels i follow do not write english/norwegian..
Posted by: Per/Norway | Oct 27 2022 20:39 utc | 52
Why would the forces of Russia and the Eastern provinces put their personnel into the same abattoir, when they can wait for the AFU forces to exhaust themselves.
Posted by: Orchard1 | Oct 27 2022 20:07 utc | 36
Only a small part of nazis attack the soldiers, many others attack the civilians, destroy cities from distance using nato weapons, others sit and do nothing, like the many waiting near Belarus.
So the idea that all they have to do is wait is very wrong. They need a lot more troops, a fully destroyed power grid for kiev/lvov region to stop supplies and start attacks. They refuse to adapt, so they're more or less stuck far from region borders. When ukr soldier numbers will get lower, nato will stop direct attacks and focus only on terrorism. If the puppets are not destroyed quickly, they'll start to destroy everything, including npps or dams or chemical factories, just so that no one can live there or use resources.
Posted by: rk | Oct 27 2022 20:40 utc | 53
I live in America but it is not my country anymore
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 27 2022 19:52 utc | 28
---
It never was. Failure to understand that critical point produces subsequent emotional trauma similar to the effect of leaving a cult.
You were lied to; you were mentally abused and subject to immense brainwashing. The false teachings were based on crafting a moral justification for each action.
The truth is, the US has always been a predatory, expansionist state. It never really bothered anybody too much, because the vast majority were beneficiaries of the positive results.
Even today, we are able to carry $28 trillion of "debt" and enjoy its spending power because of the long train of wars, territorial gains and commercial controls we've successfully imposed and maintained.
Thats why Ukraine is also an existentional threat to us. Russias is easier to understand, as there is tangible territory, people, state involved.
But our situation is more abstract. The average person doesn't know why there is fuel at the gas station, or that it costs X per gallon. They don't know what a dollar is, much less how it is created.
Basically, the USA is a giant nursery of dummies who have no clue about anything. Give them a toy, provide some distraction, tell them they are the most awesome wonderful people in the world and that urge to scream out USA! Over and over again quickly emerges.
Now, do you get all weepy like a typical proglib or do you look at the situation with a shrug? I advocate being realistic by avoiding fantasy.
Again, all one has to do is focus on $usd = mic = energy. Russia wins by denying resources, which is achieved by simply maintaining its central government.
The failure of the $usd them leads to the inability of the mic to act as global police. Once that's gone, the false edifice is stripped away to reveal the sick society within.
Posted by: B9k9 | Oct 27 2022 20:40 utc | 54
JoeDontSurf | Oct 27 2022 20:30 utc | 47
Click the "preview channel" link at the bottom of Slavyangrads banner.
You can now view every post from Slavyangrad's channel.
That doesn't work; It just brings you back to the same banner page. You never get near the contents. Logging in to Telegram you get a message saying that the channel is blocked in Europe. There is no way round it.
Posted by: Jim | Oct 27 2022 20:41 utc | 55
re Chevrus | Oct 27 2022 19:19 utc | 14
nice summary and good insights there
thanks
perhaps the most significant events these days is the continual degrading of the power system throughout the country. The Russians appear to be doing quite a bit of intelligence gathering too in the intervals between the attacks to see how the Ukrainians adjust the grid, how long it takes to repair, etc. After all, everything in an industrial society runs on electricity (well, more or less).
I believe the Russians long put off attacking the grid, for pretty obvious reasons - it really is a pain in the ass & a terrible stress on the civilian population, and the gripe hasn't been with them but with the Political and Military Elites
Posted by: michaelj72 | Oct 27 2022 20:43 utc | 56
@Jim | Oct 27 2022 20:21 utc | 43
I find that the telegram posts are useful, particularly because certain channels are blocked in most of Europe, whether you are signed up to Telegram or not, and you can't get around that by changing your dns server. Slavyangrad was blocked a while back, reappeared a couple of weeks ago, but seems to have been blocked again a couple of hours ago. Sputnik was blocked about the time Slavyangrad reappeared, and still is. Some of us have no way to read those posts except when they are quoted here.I am in Europe and have Telegram on multiple devices. I have had no issues accessing Slavyangrad and many other channels on Telegram. I can get the channels just fine, but I still found the postings by Down South useful because the volumes on Telegram can be a bit overwhelming, but hey it isn't my blog. I recommend people get Telegram to stay informed about daily happenings in Ukraine.
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 27 2022 20:43 utc | 57
So I can see all Telegram channels in DE.
And with the mentioned method on the PC !!!!
.
https://t.me/s/intelslava
Posted by: Mo3 | Oct 27 2022 20:48 utc | 58
watcher #46
"So both Russia and China fear US attack"
Precisely! and one look at the behaviour of the neocons after Trumps election and then the Biden primaries and election would leave any sane observer with a clear understanding that there is no sane US entity to negotiate a civil, peaceful shared world order.
For the USA and UK, there is no alternative to rapine capitalism and should any dare to offer an alternative, they will be destroyed.
And thank you to Dr George W Oprisko for your posts.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 27 2022 20:48 utc | 59
Posted by: Jim | Oct 27 2022 20:41 utc | 55
Sucks to be you in a totalitarian hellhole ;)
It works for me at work where I cant install Telegram on my work PC in the good ole USSA.
As Norwegian says, it's not blocked.
Probably user error or your shitty browser. I use Brave on my personal PC and Chrome on my work PC.
Posted by: JoeDontSurf | Oct 27 2022 20:52 utc | 60
Those familiar with Strauss and Howe's Fourth Turning know it is now upon us.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 27 2022 20:54 utc | 61
Posted by: Mo3 | Oct 27 2022 20:48 utc | 58
Thank you.
This is another alternative. Save that link to your favorites in your browser, and you can always see IntelSlavaZ.
Some of our technology challenged barflies are making this way harder than it needs to be.
Posted by: JoeDontSurf | Oct 27 2022 20:55 utc | 62
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 27 2022 20:48 utc | 59
.
CORRECT !!!!
because what happened has become existential for the West!
The Stredegen had never reckoned with this in their plans to weaken Russia by sacrificing Ukraine.
Putin's decisions depending on the new situation are now leading to a struggle for the existence of the West, they NEVER thought that the development of bric / raw materials for rubles for everyone who is willing to pay in rubles...resistance of the strong states, this mixture became the struggle for existence for the West!
And that CAN lead to nuclear war....
Because the West now has almost nothing to lose but its own life !!
Posted by: Mo3 | Oct 27 2022 20:58 utc | 63
Thank you.
This is another alternative. Save that link to your favorites in your browser, and you can always see IntelSlavaZ.
Some of our technology challenged barflies are making this way harder than it needs to be.
Posted by: JoeDontSurf | Oct 27 2022 20:55 utc | 62
.
Telegram on the PC !!!
.
https://t.me/s/rusich_army
.
https://t.me/s/voenkorKotenok
.
https://t.me/s/rybar
.
https://t.me/s/intelslava
.
https://t.me/s/boris_rozhin
.
https://t.me/s/voenkorKotenok
Posted by: Mo3 | Oct 27 2022 21:03 utc | 64
Telegram on the PC !!!
ADDENDUM :
Telegram on PC = right click in your language Translate
.
Posted by: Mo3 | Oct 27 2022 21:07 utc | 65
B9k9 @ 54
You were lied to; you were mentally abused and subject to immense brainwashing. The false teachings were based on crafting a moral justification for each action.
The cold hard truth.
Again, all one has to do is focus on $usd = mic = energy. Russia wins by denying resources, which is achieved by simply maintaining its central government.
Someone here a while back noted brilliantly that the west has built a new iron curtain but this time all the resources, energy, and most of the manufacturing are on the other side. It’s the insight I use to wake the zombies I meet out of their torpor. We have a castle in town, I say, “it’s like when they built the castle they saw the invader coming in the distance, they hurried frantically to get it finished, as they invaders came ashore they got the soldiers and the peasants inside the walls, barred the gate, filled the mote, raised the drawbridge - then as the invading army approached the hillside they realized they left all the food and water outside.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 27 2022 21:09 utc | 66
Long-time reader, first time commenting:
Down South postings are highly appreciated.
Posted by: Cindy Martin | Oct 27 2022 21:14 utc | 67
My article dealing with Mr Putin's meetings prior to today's Valdai Club appearance as well as his speech there is now complete and can be read here, "Putin Before and After Valdai". However, the entire Q&A discussion awaits the completion of the Russian language transcript and then being made into another article that will appear here when it's done, hopefully in less than 30 minutes. Yes, the discussion and Q&A are longer than the speech, which in my article I punctuated with some commentary. Unfortunately, based on previous behavior I must assume the West will have nothing positive to say in response, and instead choose to double-down on its current rhetoric and actions as it seems incapable of doing anything else.
Musk supported this Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1498491107902062592
The Twitter thread shows a number of leading strategists since the end of the Cold War stating NATO expansion to the borders of Russia was a monumental miscalculation. It makes me think of the opposite long list. Who are the people in the pro-NATO expansion long list? I can start with three names. Richard Holbrooke, Daniel Fried, and Victoria Nuland. All three were (are) leaders in US foreign policy, Jewish, and had grandparents during the late Russian Empire. It was a time of pogroms like in 1905.
The relationship between Jews in high government positions and the media and the leadup to the Ukraine War needs to be explored. Do Jews with ancestors who were killed or hurt during the Russian Empire want revenge against Russia? As a very cohesive group, Jews have long memories. It's a mindset conducive to wanting revenge for the crimes against their kin. Jews in important roles worked hard and persistently to change the course of events and it has brought the US to proxy war with Russia.
Posted by: sanmiguel | Oct 27 2022 21:17 utc | 69
Mo3 @ 63
And that CAN lead to nuclear war.... Because the West now has almost nothing to lose but its own life
Well actually, they could just sit at the table, say grace, break bread with the other gathered folk, eat drink and be merry like the civilized Christians they are.
Nah, just kidding!
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 27 2022 21:18 utc | 70
Remember Russia already lost more troops than US did in 10 year-Iraq-War. And more tanks already. And this war have not even been 1 year yet!
Posted by: Zanon | Oct 27 2022 19:51 utc | 27
The two conflicts have nothing in common. Iraq was already militarily exhausted from the first Gulf War and years of hard sanctions by the US. Their military was stripped down to less than a police force, with little or no airpower, and no air force at all. For the US, the war in Iraq was like shooting fish in a barrel, and still the Iraqi forces fought a land war second to none with mostly improvised weapons (LED's) and small caliber guns.
Iraq did not have a sugar daddy like the US and NATO supporting them and providing them with the best weapons available, including combat training, radar cover, and satellite coverage and intelligence. If they had this kind of support, the US would have lost many times more than the number they lost in that war.
Now, just exactly how many troops do you claim that Russia have lost in this war so far, whatever you say is a lie, because those numbers are only a guess presented by the UAF's. Now, exactly how many UAF and Nazi volunteers have died in this current conflict between Russia and the US proxy forces?
Posted by: Ed Nelson | Oct 27 2022 21:24 utc | 71
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5UUN6Y-KbY
I'm just starting on this but it appears to be most of the speech and the complete Q & A. The translator switches from a woman with a squeaky voice that makes Putin seem like he's on helium, to a more proper mail voice for the Q & A.
Here's the speech text:
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/69695
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 27 2022 21:25 utc | 72
Posted by: watcher | Oct 27 2022 20:30 utc | 46
I love posts like that one. They're totally accurate I think and quite precisely describe the truth.
Yet at the same time totally wrong and inaccurate. And still describe the truth.
How so?
Because there's two truths:
One is the 'truth' of the fantasy world of 'nations'.
And the other is the truth of the real world of people.
In the fantasy world of 'nations', 'china' and 'america', etc. exist and they have lives of their own with 'destiny' and 'imperatives' and so on.
In the real world of people there's people striving merely to live.
The fantasy world is used as the directing power and real people die to feed its narrative.
Which is bad enough.
But that bad pales into nothing compared with the real 'bad' which is that all discourse revolves around the fantasy: reality, actual people, is/are totally discounted, ignored, marginalised, forgotten.
And everyone - but 'everyone' begins living in and wholly accepting the 'reality' of this fantasy world. The real world is totally forgotten.
So now we have 'america' fomenting nuclear annihilation for the whole world.
This fantasy concept 'america' actually means not america at all. It means a few dozen - maybe a few hundred, possibly less than ten, who knows - individuals. It does not refer at all to 350 million people.
But learned and serious and tremendously intelligent and responsible people bend their brains to discussing possibilities and courses of actions and futures entirely within this fantasy: a nation of 350 million as a handful of (insane) individuals. They do this in all seriousness. Page after page, hour after hour, volume after volume, year after year their serious and learned emissions never relating to the people whatever.
The world has completely lost sight of the fact that some things are virtual reality. They simply do not exist. They are convenient fictions for use in social organisation, commerce, whatever.
Everyone should know that Corporations do not exist, surely? It is written quite clearly if you don't know. They are fictional entities given certain powers and deemed to 'exist' as though they were individuals. In law. In corporate law.
But they are NOT individuals and as such the do NOT exist, really. No.
But so demented and programmed have we become that millions of people and billions of dollars are actually spent 'fighting' these corporations and hating these corporations as thought they were real. Whilst, of course, ignoring the real operative factors which are the people, the decision makers and operatives within them. And surrounding them.
In exactly the same way seeing the world as comprised of 'nations' is merely a convenience. A legal fiction. And all talk of their national 'imperatives' and blah, blah are essentially red herrings, novels, dreams, romances...
Which isn't just frivolity and a minor error while ever it occupies the whole stage and pushes to one side any contemplation of reality.
So here now we have the greatest problem being the utter miseducation of the Ukrainian (Kiev) people who believe their lives to be in danger and their country being in danger of being taken from them.
They die by the thousand because they fear those two things.
The solution would like in educating them as to the real dangers they face.
i.e. the reduction in the quality of their nation in every way with every passing day. And the increasing chance of their own harm with every passing day. And the fact that there is a way out well short of what they're told.
But because of the prevailing way of viewing the world: i.e. it is conflict between 'nations' there's not the slightest interest anywhere in educating these people.
Or the people of Europe who're also increasingly in danger of great suffering.
Nor the people of the UK.
Nor of the USA people.
Not only are we all in the grip of insane (mis)leaders
But we're in the grip of a complete misapprehension of the nature of reality.
Just an example of the sort of rhetoric/world view to which I was referring in my earlier post, comes from a post up there somewhere
"... Once again the UK couldn't decide who it hated most - Germany or the USSR...."
See? This explains the world perfectly in that paradigm. But it has nothing to do with the people of the UK, or Germany, or the USSR. But belief in this kind of 'fantasy story' breathes a kind of actual life into it and sets the stage for future events predicated on it.
Posted by: sanmiguel | Oct 27 2022 21:17 utc | 70
I wonder, could it be possible that 109 countries were right after all?
Posted by: Deplorable | Oct 27 2022 21:38 utc | 75
@b
I do agree that Down South is over posting atm but he is does not seem to have any bad intentions so hopefully he will just post less prolifically.
But he had a long way to go to get close to Scorp's word count. And at least Down South was posting information not crap propaganda rhetoric for the Empire
Anyone can plainly see who has been clogging up the site and it ain't DS.
Posted by: K | Oct 27 2022 21:39 utc | 76
That's another impressive speech by VVP. And since my MSM breaking news featured a mention of it, it might even get some traction here on the dark side
Posted by: Guy L'Estrange | Oct 27 2022 21:42 utc | 77
@Zanon #30:
You can all browse these channels yourself you know, you do not have to be a member.
Not all channels. You can use your browser to read posts in public channels like t.me/s/boris_rozhin, but you need to install the Telegram app to read posts in auto-join private channels like t.me/slavyangrad—and not everyone wants to do that because the Telegram app asks for your phone number.
Posted by: S | Oct 27 2022 21:50 utc | 78
I skip all TG reposts here (and most details on TG too) so I don’t care. B is right. It’s not a rocket science to install TG.
Posted by: RB | Oct 27 2022 21:51 utc | 79
@JoeDontSurf #47:
If Down South posts a link to Slavyangrad post, right click on the link and open it in another tab.
At the top of the Telegram link that opened in the other tab, click on the blue portion that says Slavyangrad. This will open another tab.
Click the "preview channel" link at the bottom of Slavyangrads banner.
You can now view every post from Slavyangrad's channel.
Your advice doesn’t work. That’s because @slavyangrad is an auto-join private channel, which means you have to install the Telegram app to read it (unlike public channels such as @rybar or @boris_rozhin which can be read in a web browser).
Posted by: S | Oct 27 2022 21:53 utc | 80
@whirlX 3
"Issue, is that all sides will be badly damaged for years to come and World as we know it, its orders and values will be gone."
In reality, since at least 2014 we have known to the limits of scientific certainty, that the detonation of 100 nuclear warheads over cities would be sufficient to eject some 5 teragrams of black soot into the earth’s stratosphere where it never rains. That means that soot would remain blocking sunlight from the earth for decades, cooling the Earth to levels not seen since the Permian–Triassic extinction event (End Permian) 250 mybp which did the same as forests burned, due to comets and vulcanism. That was, until now, Earth's largest extinction event and killed 57% of all families, 83% of all genera and 90% to 96% of all species (53% of marine families, 84% of marine genera, about 81% of all marine species and an estimated 70% of land species, including insects). With the sun blocked out, photosynthesis by plants, including plankton, would be impossible, and with most seeds deteriorating within years, driving most vegetation into extinction.
Outside of some specialized deep sea and underground microorganisms which live in darkness, this would starve the majority of terrestrial and marine organisms to death, if they do not first die of radiation or climate chaos. The decompose biomatter will cause methane levels to soar, favoring anoxic organisms including jellyfish. Exacerbating this, as oxygen is highly reactive and this continuously removes oxygen from the atmosphere, the planet relies on continuous supplementation to maintain oxygen levels. Marine organisms, principally phytoplankton (plant based plankton), are responsible for more than 80% of that. Should this occur, atmospheric and marine oxygen concentrations will decline, and the ever present threat of archaic anaerobic organisms, which can subsist on sulphur, breaking out of their submarine entombment, where they will revert the planet to sulfuric Canfield Oceans.
As there are some 18,000 known ready-to-use nuclear devices and estimate that pits exist to assemble another 50,000 or so devices on short notice, inter alia, the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists and World Economic Forum both consider the detonation of these devices both the most likely and most serious near-term threat to continued human existence.
Cited from my monograph Wars of Depopulation which is footnoted to provide links to source papers and news items.
Posted by: Hermit | Oct 27 2022 21:54 utc | 81
Slavyangrad makes good analysis besides and based on their reporting of events, but they do make a lot of them which can easily clog up any board. I read it with TG. And you can see the posts by links on browser too, unless they contain long videos.
To be honest, I'm beginning to tilt towards an idea that this too may last for years, as it did in Donbass. I hate to try to generalize things as it might be very inaccurate or non-descriptive, but based on the stuff I read from Slavyangrad and elsewhere, the big change so far has been that there are now actually coherent lines, mitigating the ukie tactic of using light mobile forces to flank. Additionally, in Kherson area (for example), the defense is no longer based on isolated strong points but on solid defensive echelons. There might be more than 1 line and often attacks get caught on the other. Now mercenaries have been used as frontal assault which they don't like. There are also the racial aspects in play - the Poles might view themselves as superior to the normal ukie and too good to go first, etc.
Albeit it might be too early to say that UAF is "breaking down" completely, but Russians should be much more solid. Ukraine might have an interesting winter. Basically all salaries and pensions are now paid by the US, and EU is trying to prop up the electric grid with hundreds of generators, which may or may not have diesel fuel. It's desperate. Won't go further speculating on things for now, just lets see things as they happen.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 27 2022 21:56 utc | 82
@LightYearsFromHome 41
I am reminded that Hitler's secretary said that he had never behave other than as a Christian gentleman.
He was correct.
Since Christianity was invented, most of the world's monsters have indeed been fine christian gentleman.
Posted by: Hermit | Oct 27 2022 22:06 utc | 83
Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 27 2022 20:37 utc | 51:
You got me wrong on vk. I liked him/her (some here insinuated vk is female) and his/her views. I didn't appreciate the arrogance, though. I read most of his/her postings because I thought they were informative and often brilliant.
But I didn't use vk as an example to ban Down South. As someone mentioned here earlier, b was politely making a plead not a threat. I only mentioned vk as an example of hammering a point too many times could bore the readership.
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Oct 27 2022 22:09 utc | 84
Does anyone have any thoughts on why Russia can't take Avdiivka? I believe it's about six miles northwest of Donetsk, and the AFU has been in Avdiivka shelling Donetsk for many years. I just wonder why Russia can't drop a bomb on the AFU fortifications or cut off supplies to these forces then capture them. I think this makes Russia look very weak, and that is something Russia doesn't need. Can anyone explain this?
Posted by: OdessaConnected | Oct 27 2022 22:17 utc | 85
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Oct 27 2022 22:09 utc | 84
Indeed....don't want to bore the readership:)
Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Oct 27 2022 22:17 utc | 86
Posted by: OdessaConnected | Oct 27 2022 22:17 utc | 85
No explanation needed. Russia doesn't care how you think they look.
Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Oct 27 2022 22:20 utc | 87
@b
In addition to the congenial discussions and occasional ritual disembowelment of torrents of trolls, your delightful bar is a valuable source of daily summaries for those of us who can't always find the time to follow the details for ourselves.
For this I am always grateful to all those making the effort, including @Down South. He doesn't set the number or importance of information, which seems to me to track well with what is happening in the SMO, and he usually selects rather artfully for information that many regulars find interesting or significant from the oceans of nonsense that flow on Telegram and other sites attempting to keep up with the oceans of noise in realtime.
I think that most, if not all the people here are capable of ignoring that in which they are not interested (or trolls, who can be a challenge, would be much more of an issue).
Thanks-again
Hermit
Posted by: Hermit | Oct 27 2022 22:21 utc | 88
"Nuclear blackmail. Escalation scenarios. Konstantin Sivkov" over at the Saker is a must read.Posted by: Per/Norway | Oct 27 2022 20:32 utc | 48
Maybe, but with zero paragraphs or line breaks it is impossible to read.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Oct 27 2022 22:21 utc | 89
Roland @ 49:
Yes, TASS reported that just this past Wednesday Polish mercenaries in the Liman area resisted going on the attack after a series of similar failed attacks and a group of Ukrainian nationalists was sent to sort them out. From TASS's report, it looks as if the Polish mercenaries killed ALL of these Ukrainians.
Well, that saves the Lugansk forces and the Russian army much valuable ammunition in de-Nazifying Ukraine.
Battle erupts between Polish mercenaries, Ukrainian nationalists near Liman — LPR official
As you say, the fact that the Polish mercenaries killed so many of these nationalists suggests the mercenaries are not just independent soldiers of fortune but a well-organised force, probably even sent by the Polish government. This itself would imply that Poland is investing considerable resources in this conflict and hopes to gain much from it - such as territory in northwest and west Ukraine that Warsaw has long coveted and considered its own (which once upon a time it was, over 200 years ago). You probably already know that the Polish-Ukrainian border is open and that in some parts of Ukraine close to the border, Polish nationals already can serve in the police force and can stand as candidates in local government elections.
Posted by: Jen | Oct 27 2022 22:23 utc | 90
Not only are we all in the grip of insane (mis)leaders
But we're in the grip of a complete misapprehension of the nature of reality.
Posted by: abrogard | Oct 27 2022 21:28 utc | 74
Brilliant!
An apocryphal tale concerning a journalists question to a Chinese diplomat at some time in the not too distant past.
Journalist : What do you think about the French revolution?
Chinese diplomat : Its too early to tell!
There's something about morality in that. Morality aims at very long term goals. Its that Confucian thing again; you act a certain way in order to bring that conception into being.
If you're caught up in the short term then you can achieve tangible short term results. This will boost you confidence and perhaps draw your competitors into your timescale. However if a competitor holds out and invests a potential loss of short term credibility in a long term strategy, the whole milieu might be altered.
Media generally provides that short term sugar rush; it provides feedback on what appears to be happening right now. Blogs like MOA work on a longer timescale, poking a stick at what might be speculatively conjectured, using limited information, in the medium term.
Playing the long gme is an intellectual pursuit. In long time frames you need to humble yourself to reality since your hopes and ambitions have a limited lifespan. Long term strategies need to be realistic; they need to be moral. Realism takes account of all the possibilities and in an intellectual landscape it makes sense to give competing agendas equal weight, at least initially.
In the long term, any number of expediences might intervene to throw a well thought out, well considered and apparently appropriate strategy off course. Intelligence is not a safe bet in an evolutionary environment. However I wouldn't be typing abstract, ill formed ideas, for a consumer who's tastes I can't be sure of unless I perceived some value in the exercise. Projecting ourselves into the future gives us meaning; its our intellectual offspring.
Short term expediences anchor us to our appetites; its our animal instinct. Our spiritual persona wants to go beyond this however and formulate a Confucian world where morality takes precedent over appetite. Until we get pissed off and angry whereupon we just want to tear the whole thing down.
We probably need a more spiritual world. Appetites get us up out our beds in the morning and get us jogging round the hamster wheel but deep down we know its just mindless repetition.
Posted by: Cyclops | Oct 27 2022 22:40 utc | 92
Nearly four times as many German soldiers, reservists and other trained personnel have asked to leave the service this year as in 2021, the AFP reported. The increase comes as Germany deepens its involvement in Ukraine and seeks to rebuild its armed forces.
The Bundeswehr received 810 requests to register as conscientious objectors in the first eight months of this year, up from 209 throughout the whole of 2021, Der Spiegel reported on Wednesday, citing figures from the Defense Ministry seen by AFP.
By registering their refusal to fight, soldiers are eligible to leave military service and can invoke their status as conscientious objectors even in the event that conscription is reintroduced.
https://www.rt.com/news/565481-germany-soldiers-refusing-fight/
This is not only Germany, even extremely Russophobic Estonia had a pretty large proportion of absentees from their annual military exercise. Finland has had over 3500 resignations from the military reserve compared to 350 in 2021.
While it may not seem important, people mostly get it what's going on and the most rabid ones have already gone in Ukraine. Fighting now in Ukraine are basically ISIS, Nazi groups and a bunch of mercenaries from eastern Europe and anglo countries, who have mostly criminal backgrounds.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 27 2022 22:41 utc | 93
@Abrogard 75
General agreement but on a point of order, there are at least as many perspectives as people thinking about a thing, and no truths. (See my monograph On Truth and Models for a fuller explanation).
Posted by: Hermit | Oct 27 2022 22:43 utc | 94
I thought I would pick this word as a couple years back it became one of those jargon buzzwords which people who want to push their notions by replacing simple terms with more obscure ones adopt. We won't worry about its noun usuage "According to former use, one who has the cure of souls; a priest; a minister." as currently the word is used as a verb, specifically:
"To apply selectivity and taste to, as a collection of fashion items or web pages"
Yeah yeah what t'fuck am I on about?
Simply really people who rely on any particular source for information, as many who have expressed concern at b's request for a poster to tone down his copy and pasting are allowing someone who they don't know and won't ever know to do a task they should be doing for themselves - always, curating the information they allow into their consciousness for consideration.
I'm not gonna regurgitate old arguments about this I have already made other than to point out that no human is objective, we all have our preferences and are biased toward accepting or rejecting particular points of view. Once we allows ourself to rely on any other individuals selection of 'news' we have adopted that other humans bias a state of affairs that leads us into the possibility of being indoctrinated.
A thread the other day was chocka with people celebrating the fact they had liberated themselves from corporate media, what is the point of doing that if in your next act you merely choose an alternative curator/aggregator?
Anyone who wishes to access TG but doesn't want to give up their phone number should just buy a $30 burner at a supermarket and use that. If you are being blocked by your 'nation' even after swapping your DNS server from accessing particular channels sign up for a VPN, the VPN mobs seem to be giving the things away at the moment, although I prefer one that isn't based in amerika as that joint has absolutely no digital privacy. The one I use has a fast & efficiant endpoint based in the RF (as well as every other place on the planet) which I have been communicating to & from with no issues.
Yeah that does cost a few bucks but those garbage news outlets you have chucked over cost a damn sight more.
Set yourself up and go where you want to without anyone else stepping between you and what you wish to find out about. Every news source should be treated skeptically - from time to time Slavyangrad has tosh on it too, you know, but this isn't putting down any source, just stating that ultimately there can only be one news curator for you - yourself.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 27 2022 22:59 utc | 95
@OdessaConnected 85
When your enemy, who has spent a decade preparing for a fight, is using a location to bruise your heel, then it is likely that they have thought about, and prepared actions to take when you attempt to slap them.
So it makes sense to assemble the necessary resources and then strike at the center of gravity. If your blow is effective the periphery, including The pestilence in Avdiivka, will wither on their own, without coating lives, time or effort.
Posted by: Hermit | Oct 27 2022 23:05 utc | 96
Everyone should know that Corporations do not exist, surely? It is written quite clearly if you don't know. They are fictional entities given certain powers and deemed to 'exist' as though they were individuals. In law. In corporate law.But they are NOT individuals and as such the do NOT exist, really. No.
....
Not only are we all in the grip of insane (mis)leaders
But we're in the grip of a complete misapprehension of the nature of reality.
Posted by: abrogard | Oct 27 2022 21:28 utc | 74
The business of conflating the rights of corporations with individuals is a peculiar interpretation of the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court in the landmark Citizens United case. That interpretation does not apply in all countries. It is also possible that in some future sane America, the decision will be revisited.
See http://www.thecourt.ca/the-corporation-as-a-person-legal-fact-or-fiction/
However, using that example to argue that "corporations do not exist" is indeed "a complete misapprehension of the nature of reality". By the same logic, governments and courts do not exist.
Of course they exist, unlike fictional entities sasquatches or unicorns. They have a physical presence and they act in tangible ways in the world.
Apologies in advance it your post was intended as sarcasm and it went over my head.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Oct 27 2022 23:25 utc | 97
#2 Deplorable
Don’t be perplexed. In 1944 it took the Allied forces a full 4 months to dislodge Germans troops dug in at Monte Cassino. Here’s a brief summary of that battle:
Between 17 January and 18 May, Monte Cassino and the Gustav defences were attacked on four separate occasions. Repeated artillery attacks on assaulting allied troops caused their leaders to conclude incorrectly that the abbey was being used by the Germans as an observation post, at the very least. Fears escalated, along with casualties, and in spite of evidence, it was marked for destruction. On 15 February 1944, Allied bombers dropped 1,400 tons of high explosives, creating widespread damage.[5]On 16 May, soldiers from the Polish II Corps launched one of the final assaults on the German defensive position as part of a twenty-division assault along a twenty-mile front. On 18 May, a Polish flag followed by the British flag were raised over the ruins.[6] Following this Allied victory, the German Senger Line collapsed on 25 May, and the German defenders were driven from their positions.[7]
Posted by: krypton | Oct 27 2022 23:28 utc | 98
Nearly four times as many German soldiers, reservists and other trained personnel have asked to leave the service this year as in 2021, the AFP reported. The increase comes as Germany deepens its involvement in Ukraine and seeks to rebuild its armed forces.
The Bundeswehr received 810 requests to register as conscientious objectors in the first eight months of this year, up from 209 throughout the whole of 2021, Der Spiegel reported on Wednesday, citing figures from the Defense Ministry seen by AFP.
By registering their refusal to fight, soldiers are eligible to leave military service and can invoke their status as conscientious objectors even in the event that conscription is reintroduced.
https://www.rt.com/news/565481-germany-soldiers-refusing-fight/
This is not only Germany, even extremely Russophobic Estonia had a pretty large proportion of absentees from their annual military exercise. Finland has had over 3500 resignations from the military reserve compared to 350 in 2021.
While it may not seem important, people mostly get it what's going on and the most rabid ones have already gone in Ukraine. Fighting now in Ukraine "defending the western cradle of 'democracy'" are now ISIS, Nazi groups and a bunch of mercenaries from eastern Europe and anglo countries, who have mostly criminal backgrounds. How's that for irony.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 27 2022 23:35 utc | 99
Being as I'm sympathetic both to Down South's avid readers (of which I'm one) and to the spirit of brevity sought by b, here are some thoughts for how the content from Down South's posts from Telegram et al. (which I'll call "Telegram posts") might consume less forum-width yet not appreciably lose information.
1. Down South might check whether similar content is already posted at a quick-loading (even on dialup internet) English-language site, such as TASS dot COM. If so, perhaps post a link to the TASS (or whatever) article in lieu of a Telegram post.
2. If a post is duplicated through operator or website error, consider the duplicate(s) as reducing the suggested "quota" just as a unique post would have.
3. If subsequent to making a Telegram post, a newer Ukraine thread is created, post on the new thread a link to the existing post residing at the older thread, rather than reposting all the content on the newer Ukraine thread.
Posted by: David Levin | Oct 27 2022 23:43 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
@Down South
Please stop mass posting here all the minor tactical stuff from Telegram. It is irrelevant for the bigger picture.
Posted by: b | Oct 27 2022 11:34 utc | 1