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October 24, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-182
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Russian Defense Ministry said they have information about the contacts of Zelensky’s office with representatives of Britain on the issue of obtaining technology to create nuclear weapons. According to Kiev’s plans, the detonation of a “dirty bomb” can be disguised as an abnormal operation of a Russian nuclear munition
— the goal is to accuse Russia of using weapons of mass destruction and launch a powerful anti-Russian campaign in the world aimed at undermining confidence in Moscow;
— two Ukrainian organizations have specific instructions for the creation of a “dirty bomb”, the work is at the final stage;
— there is information about the contacts of the office of the President of Ukraine with representatives of the United Kingdom on the possible acquisition of nuclear weapons technology;
— there are enterprises in Ukraine with stocks of radioactive substances that can be used for a dirty bomb – three operating nuclear power plants (Yuzhno-Ukrainskaya, Khmelnytsky and Rivne) and the decommissioned Chernobyl nuclear power plant with radioactive waste storage facilities;
— more than 50 000 m3 of radioactive waste, which can also be used for a “dirty bomb”, can be placed at the newly created enterprise for the processing of radioactive waste “Vector”, at the Dnieper chemical Plant, at the disposal sites of radioactive waste “Buryakovka”, “Podlesny”, “Rossokha”, the Vostochny Mining and Processing Plant is producing uranium ores;
— Ukraine also has a corresponding scientific base – the Kharkiv Institute of Physics and Technology, whose scientists participated in the USSR nuclear program and where experimental facilities operate, including the Uragan thermonuclear installations, as well as the Institute for Nuclear Research at the Academy of Sciences in Kiev, where research with radioactive materials is conducted at the VVR-M reactor in.
The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has prepared forces and means in case of a “dirty bomb” being detonated by Ukraine.
Posted by: rk | Oct 24 2022 11:17 utc | 1
Sad truth is the Ukies are crazy enough and the Brits insidious enough to make it happen. DC will disavow all knowledge, of course.
Posted by: DaVinci | Oct 24 2022 11:27 utc | 2
Greg Galloway @ 4
I dont believe in that dirty bomb hype.
I don’t either, but something’s up. And as always a scared populace is an easily controlled populace. They need a lot of control now so they do a lot of scaring.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 24 2022 11:41 utc | 3
the west is desperate, the US sees its grip on power slipping away. I don’t know what the US ISN’T capable of.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 24 2022 11:45 utc | 4
The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has prepared forces and means in case of a “dirty bomb” being detonated by Ukraine.
Russia still complaining and explaining.
Russia’s enemies are not afraid of Russia.
Posted by: marko | Oct 24 2022 11:45 utc | 5
I dont believe in that dirty bomb hype.
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Oct 24 2022 11:29 utc | 4
The Russian government doesn’t believe either. Based on their current actions in Ukr they couldn’t care less about it.
Also, why is the MoD so confident a dirty bomb can explode only in Ukr? I wouldn’t be so sure. Can be another car near Moscow. Crimea and Belarus are good candidates for “malfunctioning” Russian nukes.
Posted by: rk | Oct 24 2022 11:52 utc | 6
rk | Oct 24 2022 11:52 utc | 10
“Also, why is the MoD so confident a dirty bomb can explode only in Ukr? I wouldn’t be so sure. Can be another car near Moscow. Crimea and Belarus are good candidates for “malfunctioning” Russian nukes.”
Because those targets are much harder to access and would comprise direct terrorism against Russian or Russia-friendly targets. Therefore it would be more difficult for such an attack to serve as a false flag to be blamed on Russia.
But a dirty bomb in Kiev ought to be easy to do, and many more among the mass-insane locust masses of the West would believe Russia did it than if it went off in Moscow.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Oct 24 2022 11:59 utc | 7
Flying Dutchman | Oct 24 2022 11:59 utc | 12
It will work for propaganda. Like the ZNPP, the bridge or the car bomb. Russians are attacking themselves.
A dirty bomb in Belarus hits nato’s enemy but not hard enough to reach Poland and they can also claim Russia was hiding nukes there and exploded one by mistake. More reasons for nato to put nukes at all borders, from Black Sea to Finland. It’s in the style of the nato movie so far.
Posted by: rk | Oct 24 2022 12:08 utc | 8
As the electric grid continues to be destroyed I keep waiting for the news that the eight diesel locomotives have been targeted.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 24 2022 12:10 utc | 9
Posted by: rk | Oct 24 2022 12:08 utc | 13
Nobody but the dumbed down Western public will believe any of that nonsense – and they’re all a lost cause anyway.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 24 2022 12:15 utc | 10
If the last 70 years has shown anything it is has showed the West will use false flags to justify conflict. The West is capable of anything, standard MO.
Posted by: Johnycomelately | Oct 24 2022 12:28 utc | 11
I read a lot on TG and believe little of it, but might as well link this. If true the Ukrainians are impossibly lost in this world, and the USA/UK impossibly depraved. The high numbers of mercenary dead if true is a positive. What this channel ignores is that Russian causalities should be scaled in a commensurate way.
Telegram AB NEWS: More than 300,000 dead – OSINT investigators named real irretrievable losses during the military defense in the Ukrainian army. The irretrievable losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as of October 20, 2022 amounted to 402,000 people, of which 387,000 were killed. Losses among mercenaries and volunteers from Poland, the Baltic states, Romania amounted to 54,000 of them, 31,240 people were killed. These are the OSINT data, calculated using reports from funeral agencies, extracts from morgues, as well as the results of an analysis of the radio, cellular and satellite exchange of forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The media also report that the Committee of Soldiers’ Mothers of Ukraine allegedly prepared more than 320,000 appeals “about the fate of the missing soldiers”, but the SBU banned them for national security purposes – “>https://t.me/vicktop55/7814
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 24 2022 12:31 utc | 12
🇷🇺 🇺🇦 The situation in the Starobilsk direction
as of 15.00 on October 24 , 2022
1)At the Kupyansk site, Ukrainian formations do not abandon attempts to storm the strongholds of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation at the heights on the Kislovka — Orlyanka border.
2)The units of the Ukrainian 71st Jaeger brigade, reinforced by two companies of the MTR, attempted to storm Russian positions near the villages of Pervomaiske (Pershotravnevoe), Orlyanka and Berestove. The APU attacks were repulsed, the enemy retreated to their original positions under artillery fire.
3)At the Lyman section of the AFU, they tried to take the heights south of Makeyevka and advance under Krasnopopovka.
Two companies of Ukrainian motorized infantry attacked the strongholds of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, but fell under concentrated artillery fire and retreated with losses.
4)In Belogorovka, the battalion of the 54th ombr of the AFU attempted an offensive. The counterattack drove the Ukrainian units back to their original positions.
The Command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine continues to transfer reserves to the front line to make up for losses. 20 infantry personel and 2 tanks arrived in the Serebryanka area.
https://t.me/azmilitary11/26568
Posted by: Down South | Oct 24 2022 12:32 utc | 13
The Russian Ministry of Defense has brought forces and means to readiness to carry out tasks in case Kyiv detonates a “dirty bomb”. This was stated at a briefing on threats to radiation safety by the head of the troops of radiation, chemical and biological protection of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, Lieutenant-General Igor Kirillov.
“Work has been organized to counter possible provocations from Ukraine. The forces and means have been brought to readiness to perform tasks in conditions of radioactive contamination,” he said.
As Kirillov noted, Kyiv could disguise the detonation of a “dirty bomb” as an explosion of a low-yield Russian nuclear weapon with highly enriched uranium as a charge. “The presence of radioactive isotopes in the air will be recorded by the sensors of the International Monitoring System in Europe. And Russia will be accused of using tactical nuclear weapons,” Kirillov predicted. He noted that a similar scenario had already been used in Syria, where the White Helmets accused government forces of using chemical weapons.
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 12:43 utc | 14
Like I said earlier, Zelly is quite mad, and as non-Slav he doesn’t care about Slav lives.
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 12:45 utc | 15
Arch Bungle @ 238 Oct 24 2022 (yesterday)
I think this is what Marx meant when he implied capitalism would eventually consume itself …
It’s exactly what he meant. I wonder if Marx also saw the crapification of everything as a sign of the end days of capitalism. I think the did.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 24 2022 12:51 utc | 16
I will believe MoD before trolls.
There is a series of posts here if interested.
https://t.me/mod_russia_en/4687
From the very beginning, going back to Dmitri Dontsov (1920s and taught in Ukrainian schools) the Ukrainians have prized fanaticism as a weapon. They aren’t stopping now.
Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 24 2022 12:51 utc | 17
Fascinating Commentary in Regimist Finacial Press (Bloomberg) today –
Key paragraph;
……What makes me worry more about this scenario is the Biden-Harris administration’s new National Security Strategy, belatedly published last week. “We do not seek conflict or a new Cold War,” write the authors, presumably led by National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan. They then proceed to delineate an unmistakable cold war strategy. As they say, “the post-Cold War era is definitively over and a competition is underway between the major powers to shape what comes next.” In other words, Cold War II has begun, in all but name.…….
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-10-23/cold-war-2-with-china-and-russia-is-becoming-ww3-niall-ferguson
Posted by: Exile | Oct 24 2022 12:54 utc | 18
For those proclaiming doubt of a dirty ukrop false-flag being in the works, i think russia knows how the depraved west works after the sarin-syria-whitehelmet-bs. Can anyone even name a 20th century-onward a war that wasn’t escalated by a false-flag? The european civil wars, are out of the question as planned purposeful provocations of both resulted in ww1 & ww2. Vietnam? Nope. Afghanistan? Nope. Iraq? Nope. Syria? Nope. All off the list and planned for and carried out by pure evil provocations. How could any human now argue the west would suddenly stop killing and lying to start new wars? All this has been planned for long ago, and the western elites have already been given their orders, they must follow through and provoke war as ordered or their reign on this planet ends.
Posted by: NJH | Oct 24 2022 12:55 utc | 19
Looks like Penny Mordaunt has dropped out of the leadership race. So, the UK’s new prime minister is a British born Indian. Hope, he has better brains than the clowns Borys and Truss.
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 13:01 utc | 20
Popper and others noted that the communists in germany didnt really resist the yazis because they thought fascism was simply the end stage of capitalism and they shouldnt fight against the self destruction of capitalism.
The problem with marx prophecy is that it is always and never true at the same time.
I dont get why anybody would take marx still seriously. Nothing happened the way he predicted it. Nothing.
Posted by: Orgel | Oct 24 2022 13:05 utc | 21
Yes, it is Rishi Sunak is the leader of the Tories uncontested. So, an Indian is the new British prime minister!
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 13:05 utc | 22
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 13:01 utc | 21
Hope, he has better brains than the clowns Borys and Truss.
They’re all puppets, haven’t you learned by now?
If voting could change anything, it’d be illegal.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 24 2022 13:09 utc | 23
western elites have already been given their orders
Posted by: NJH | Oct 24 2022 12:55 utc | 20
All elites, you want to say. It doesn’t look like there is an opposition to something else. Remeber after Biden’s speech in Poland the retreat started? Remember those videos Chinese army posted on social media? We will defend! Powerful army! After Pelosi landed only crickets can be heard. Oops
Posted by: rk | Oct 24 2022 13:10 utc | 24
Orgel | Oct 24 2022 13:05 utc | 22
Religion, as always, is the problem. Yes, capitalism is a religion.
People take Marx seriously because he rightly discounts mystery and fantasy to no value at all and doesn’t care about your or anyone else’s feelings. Why do people take neoliberals or any other regime myth seriously?
Posted by: sippy the shot glass | Oct 24 2022 13:14 utc | 25
Posted by: NJH | Oct 24 2022 12:55 utc | 20
For those proclaiming doubt of a dirty ukrop false-flag being in the works, i think russia knows how the depraved west works after the sarin-syria-whitehelmet-bs.
The dispute is not that they will not use a false flag.
The dispute is that they’ll destroy themselves to do it.
Tonkin was cheap. Douma, Ghouta, Khan Sheikhoun: all cheap.
But a Nuclear false flag in Ukraine will not come cheap …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 24 2022 13:14 utc | 26
Speaking of nuclear threats, I wonder why the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists haven’t updated their Doomsday clock in 2 years:
https://thebulletin.org/doomsday-clock/2020-doomsday-clock-statement/
What use is this thing if it’s permanently stuck in 2020?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 24 2022 13:27 utc | 28
Putin’s slow and limited SMO half assed invasion is a blunder and a failure, putting us all in danger of nuclear war.
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2022/10/24/the-ever-widening-war-becomes-wider/
Posted by: Hannibal | Oct 24 2022 13:32 utc | 29
Yes, it is Rishi Sunak is the leader of the Tories uncontested. So, an Indian is the new British prime minister! And a Hindu as well. not a Muslim.
Posted by: Geraint ap Iorwerth | Oct 24 2022 13:33 utc | 30
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 24 2022 13:14 utc | 27
UK can’t pollute fertile land in Eurasia with impunity. If they pollute 4000km^2 in Nikolaev, then it would be fair to pollute 4000km^2 somewhere in the UK.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 24 2022 13:36 utc | 31
Dozens of al-Qaeda-linked militants have been transferred from the Syrian province of Idlib to Ukraine to take part in hostilities on the side of the Kiev regime – Iranian TV channel
Posted by: rk | Oct 24 2022 13:41 utc | 32
I’m a glass half full man. And those Indians seem to be rather clever chaps. So I’d hope that the new British PM would see the wisdom of aligning the UK with the rising Asia rather than the declining US. I’d not expect him to turn on a sixpence over the Ukraine issue but to do a gradual course correction on it. After all, he wouldn’t want MI5 and the CIA to grant him a shorter term in power than Mary Elizabeth?
Posted by: Guy L’Estrange | Oct 24 2022 13:42 utc | 33
Arch Bungle @ 24
Being an Indian, he surely has better brains than the clown and the dumb. He is also Hindu. The wheel of history is turning. UK’s steel industry is mostly owned by Indian citizens. Most of the car industry too.
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 13:43 utc | 34
Anyone can tell me results of a dirty bomb detonation?
IE: range, composition, capability etc. Thankyou.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Oct 24 2022 13:44 utc | 35
Transporting a dirty bomb in Moscow is already impossible!
Probably the same in Belarus?
At least in the west (Germany) no one transports a ratioactive load through cities unnoticed!
At every intersection on busy roads, arterial roads are sensors that register any radiation, even unannounced medical transports immediately trigger Arlam!
And in every larger Russian and every European city this system will be available!
These systems are from the 80’s!
Posted by: Mo3 | Oct 24 2022 13:45 utc | 36
from State:
Joint Statement on Ukraine
The text of the following statement was released by the Governments of the United States of America, France, and the United Kingdom.
We, the Foreign Ministers of France, the United Kingdom, and the United States, reiterate our steadfast support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity in the face of Russia’s ongoing aggression. We remain committed to continue supporting Ukraine’s efforts to defend its territory for as long as it takes.
Earlier today, the defense ministers of each of our countries spoke to Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoygu at his request. Our countries made clear that we all reject Russia’s transparently false allegations that Ukraine is preparing to use a dirty bomb on its own territory. The world would see through any attempt to use this allegation as a pretext for escalation. We further reject any pretext for escalation by Russia.
The Foreign Ministers also discussed their shared determination to continue supporting Ukraine and the Ukrainian people with security, economic, and humanitarian assistance in the face of President Putin’s brutal war of aggression. . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2022 13:49 utc | 37
UK’s prime minister is an Indian. London mayor is a Pakistani. Both were born in the UK, while their parents were born in the former British colony, undivided at that time, as India and Pakistan. Times are changing for former colonial looters.
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 13:50 utc | 38
sippy the shot glass #26
“Why do people take neoliberals or any other regime myth seriously?”
As a reasonable first aproximation.
‘A lie travels halfway round the world before the truth is out its bed.’
The world is a complex place so anything that might simplify it for us is taken seriously, in the first instance.
The invocation ‘look out’ might be discounted by the hearer but it will almost certainly imbue a feeling of potential hazard. The price of ignoring such free advice might be extremely high compared to the embarrassment felt in realising you’ve been fooled.
Surely that’s what the whole of the media is about, preforming attitudes. If the recipients are disinclined to question the narrative then this story effectively becomes the truth.
Alternatively you can distrust everyone and try and assemble a mental model of the world all by oneself. This is my preferred strategy but it is surely sub-optimal. Departing the tribe leaves you liable to predators.
Theres a reasoning behind most things.
Posted by: Cyclops | Oct 24 2022 13:51 utc | 39
Don Bacon @ 38
Who cares what those 3 fools say!
One of the fools is about to lose his job, by the way.
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 13:52 utc | 40
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Oct 24 2022 13:44 utc | 36
See here for info on dirty bombs
https://radiologykey.com/radiologic-terrorism/
Posted by: Down South | Oct 24 2022 13:55 utc | 41
@38, It’s all coming to a head now. Quickly. Something big. I encourage Russia to act decisively. Swiftly. Without remorse.
Posted by: Leroy | Oct 24 2022 13:58 utc | 42
Paulg | Oct 24 2022 13:43 utc | 21, 35
Why do you talk as if it would be a good thing to install more intelligent imperial stooges? One of the things humanity has going for it is how stupid most of the imperial and vassal leadership is.
(Not that I’m agreeing Sunak does have more brains. I don’t know enough about him yet.)
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Oct 24 2022 13:58 utc | 43
❗Most Ukrainians are in favor of continuing the war with Russia, despite the increased missile attacks on infrastructure.
This is evidenced by the results of a sociological survey. The enemy media survey was conducted by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology in the period from October 21 to 23.
results of the survey are :
81% of respondents are in favor of continuing hostilities against Russia.
“”Want to start peace talks with Russia :10% of Ukrainians.**
The highest level of desire for a peaceful settlement of the conflict is observed in the southern and eastern parts of Ukraine.
The western and central parts of the country actively support the continuation of the war in Ukraine.
⭐️ Such “sociological studies” have been used in Ukraine for decades to create the right mood in society. They have been tested in numerous elections and are designed to develop a sense of “collective opinion” among the people .
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/16409
Posted by: Down South | Oct 24 2022 13:59 utc | 44
A couple thoughts
I think the dirty bomb plan is real and the Russians hope to wave it off. But as someone here earlier said, no one wants to join the war party.
This war is largely an excuse to blame the upcoming Collective West depression and current recession on War not MMT policy
I predict Russians move during second week of November while we are preoccupied here in the USA. NATO moves men and material from the US and NATO enters Western Ukraine in April.
China will move to back Russia and it with be a clusterf**k
Posted by: Beltway Bandit | Oct 24 2022 14:05 utc | 45
It continues to amaze me that among western politicians, media and so forth, there isn’t a single, solitary pair of balls big enough to utter Minsk II. It’s baffling.
Posted by: chunga | Oct 24 2022 14:06 utc | 46
@ Paulg | Oct 24 2022 13:52 utc | 41
Who cares what those 3 fools say!
People who recognize that these individuals play a major role in a terrible war, that’s who.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2022 14:08 utc | 47
UK’s prime minister is an Indian. London mayor is a Pakistani. Both were born in the UK, while their parents were born in the former British colony, undivided at that time, as India and Pakistan. Times are changing for former colonial looters.
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 13:50 utc | 39
LOL… because no sane native Brit wants their name to be associated with the final stage collapse. Thus guaranteeing that no ethic Indian or Pakistani ever gets the job again. Brilliant innit?
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Oct 24 2022 14:08 utc | 48
Britain is in tough economic problems. It was there for a long time, then the pandemic helped to make it worse. But, Boris Johnsoniuk made it absolutely worse by “helping” the Ukraine card. Trussy was even worse. She won through the old mostly white 80000 tory members choosing her over Sunak. She too played the Ukraine card. If Rishi plays the Ukraine card, he’d go too. Britain is out of the EU, so why listen to VD Leyen or Borrel?
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 14:10 utc | 49
Down South no. 42
Many thanks. Clear now.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Oct 24 2022 14:11 utc | 50
The dirty bomb threat is real. The point is NOT to involve NATO/US directly in war. They know that won’t work. The point is to further isolate Russia from world stage and continue the economic warfare against them.
The DANGER is that by allowing or instigating the dirty bomb provocation, the US and UK are coming VERY VERY close to triggering the conditions of Russia’s nuclear-use doctrine. If Ukraine deploys a dirty bomb in territory claimed by Russia, thereby making it uninhabitable for 30-50 years, who is to say that Russia won’t retaliate by striking US or UK targets directly?
There are some in the UK and in the US State Department who are willing to bet the continued existence of the human race on the chance that Russia will NOT respond by attacking US or UK with nuclear weapons. This is a VERY VERY risky bet. Russia almost HAS to respond, or else face the same kind of blackmail from both parties going forward.
But if Russia does respond, what then?
This is ALL because the US empire has come to regard the war in Ukraine as existential for its hegemony. It is exactly as Mearsheimer has predicted.
Posted by: WJ | Oct 24 2022 14:14 utc | 51
@ 47
It is not only Minsk II that is disregarded there is Security Council resolution 2202 (2015) supporting Minsk II. The US is currently spouting off on a UNSCR on Iran but never, ever mentions the one on Ukraine.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2022 14:14 utc | 52
Just a lurker here for the last few months. Greatly appreciate your discussions. Thanks to all (except the trolls). The American Conservative posted an article today about MSM claims of “unprovoked” attack and “democratic” 404:
Washington’s Whoppers on the War in Ukraine
Posted by: Pete | Oct 24 2022 14:15 utc | 53
NUCEAR PROVOCATION – A deluded and optimistic 5D chess thought of the day:
Now that the cat’s out of the bag, if Ukrainians actually go through with the provocation of a dirty bomb, Nato military leaders agreed with Shoigu they will:
-denounce Zelensky once and for all,
-stop funding and arming Ukraine in exchange for peace,
-save their taxpayers a fortune, and
-take the last available golden bridge by Russia, after refusing every other one offered to them before.
Posted by: Et Tu | Oct 24 2022 14:18 utc | 54
1/ Congratulations to @RishiSunak
– I wish him well and, notwithstanding our political differences, will do my best to build a constructive working relationship with him in the interests of those we serve.
2/ That he becomes the first British Asian to become PM is a genuinely significant moment. It certainly makes this a special #Diwali.
3/ As for the politics, I’d suggest one immediate decision he should take and one he certainly should not.
He should call an early General Election. And he should not – must not – unleash another round of austerity. Our public services will not withstand that.
4/ For Scotland, of course, he becomes another PM we did not and, without doubt would not vote for even if given the chance.
To escape the damage of Westminster governments with no mandate here, and take our future into our own hands, Scotland needs independence
Nicola Sturgeon on twitter.
………………….
Interestingly, Ukraine is sort of forgotten in the UK MSM TV…
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 14:18 utc | 55
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Oct 24 2022 14:08 utc | 49
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 13:50 utc | 39
LOL… because no sane native Brit wants their name to be associated with the final stage collapse.
I articulated a theory around this a few threads ago. Let me restate it:
The reason we’ve been seeing senile old men, orange haired clowns, women, house slaves, field slaves and coconuts replacing the traditional pale male at the top of the leadership hierarchy is because the house of card manufactured by the white aristocratic class is about to come tumbling down and suitable “sin goats” are needed to take the blame.
Always good to keep a few brownies in the party for just such hard times …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 24 2022 14:26 utc | 56
🛢🇺🇦❄️🥶🔌The head of Ukraine Naftogaz, Yuriy Vitrenko, said that the upcoming winter will be the “worst in the history” of Ukraine, warning of serious power outages and heating problems.
P.S. Ukraine underground gas storages are around 70% full(they didn’t have money to buy they were asking for a loan from Canada)
https://t.me/azmilitary11/26581
Posted by: Down South | Oct 24 2022 14:30 utc | 57
The West and Ukraine dare to do anything, even unthinkable.
Russia doesn’t dare, Russia limits itself, has some moral restraints.
That is the difference making the victory of the West probable.
Posted by: marko | Oct 24 2022 14:30 utc | 58
If Sunak had brains he put them in a box and buried them in the yard in order to get the job, exactly like Obama. He’s a place holder till they go to elections, they need to have things calm down a bit so Starmer can come in without the piano falling on his head. Then it can be all rah rah hail the knight savior of the UK.
Opport Knocks @ 49
because no sane native Brit wants their name to be associated with the final stage collapse. Thus guaranteeing that no ethic Indian or Pakistani ever gets the job again. Brilliant innit?
snap!
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 24 2022 14:31 utc | 59
Evidently only billionaires and bankers are worthy to save humanity from billionaires and bankers. Good times!
Posted by: gottlieb | Oct 24 2022 14:32 utc | 60
I think:
Deployment/detonation of dirty bomb in and by Ukraine -> equivalent to use of nuclear bomb against Russia -> Russian response well advertised in advance.
Russian calls to Western Capital’s officials made simply to make that very clear once again. NOBODY, particularly Russians, will take the originating act as done by Ukraine, but rather by the entire Command structures of the Western Alliance which have issued their own defiant declaration of solidarity with Zelensky’s Ukraine in response to those calls.
There is no in between…
Posted by: DoesItReallyMatter | Oct 24 2022 14:35 utc | 61
TASS – “To all appearances, they are now amassing manpower and weapons for a decisive strike against our territories and we do not rule out that this attack may be launched simultaneously not only in the Kherson direction but also in the area of Kremennaya and Svatovo in the Lugansk direction and certainly in the Donetsk direction,” LPR Assistant Interior Minister
Posted by: rk | Oct 24 2022 14:39 utc | 62
If there is a dirty bomb it got off in eastern Ukraine. The Russian population there is not considered as human. If you have any doubt that the Russian population is not considered as human please read any issue of the NYT from past year.
What is there to restrain these actors? We know that Ukraine was the center of Soviet nuclear industry; clearly they have the means. They have motive. They have opportunity. Will morality keep them in check? We are talking about a man who plays piano with his dick. Who dances in 6 inch heels. His primary adviser and television producer is also a cross dressing homosexual. On the American side the President is an incestuous pederast with dementia. Who appoints open Satanists to senior positions. Who has filled his cabinet with freaks and loons. It makes no difference if the top positions are held by freaks and loons? We should have faith that the invisible powers behind the throne are more sensible?
I cannot predict the future. If you plotted to create a volatile and uncontrollable situation this is it.
Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 24 2022 14:42 utc | 63
Paulg @ 56
Who cares if you wish the possible UK PM well? This is a Ukraine thread.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2022 14:43 utc | 64
TASS – “To all appearances, they are now amassing manpower and weapons for a decisive strike against our territories and we do not rule out that this attack may be launched simultaneously not only in the Kherson direction but also in the area of Kremennaya and Svatovo in the Lugansk direction and certainly in the Donetsk direction,” LPR Assistant Interior Minister
Posted by: rk | Oct 24 2022 14:39 utc | 63
In this situation, Russia has stopped targeting energy infrastructure.
Posted by: marko | Oct 24 2022 14:43 utc | 65
How does spellcheck change “goes” in above post to “got”? I read for that sort of constant interference and when ‘Post’ is pressed it changes.
Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 24 2022 14:46 utc | 66
⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Situation in #Starobelsk Direction until 15:00 on 24 Oct 2022⚡️
#Kupyansk Sector:
Ukrainian formations do not give up trying to storm the positions of Russian forces on the heights on the #Kislovka – #Orlyanka line.
▪️ Units of the Ukrainian 71st Jager Brigade, reinforced by two Forces of Special Operations companies, have tried to storm Russian positions near the villages of #Pervomayskoye (#Pershotravnevoye), #Orlyanka and #Berestovoye. The AFU attacks were repulsed and the enemies withdrew to their initial positions under artillery fire.
#Lyman Sector:
▪️ The AFU tried to take heights south of #Makeevka and advance towards #Krasnopopovka.
Two companies of Ukrainian motorised infantry attacked Russian strongholds, but came under concentrated artillery fire and retreated with losses.
▪️ A battalion of the 54th Mechanized Brigade attempted an offensive on #Belogorovka. The Ukrainian units were forced back to their initial positions by a counterattack.
▪️ The AFU command continues to move reserves to the front line to replace losses. Twenty infantrymen and two tanks have arrived in the #Serebryanka area.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/16413
Posted by: Down South | Oct 24 2022 14:49 utc | 67
Posted by: marko | Oct 24 2022 14:30 utc | 59
Russia doesn’t dare, Russia limits itself, has some moral restraints.
Yet it was Russia that invaded Ukraine and annexed four of it’s regions.
If this is what you call “limits” we’d better hope Putin keeps them on.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 24 2022 14:51 utc | 68
There is a propaganda war going on in Ukraine and Russia in addition to the kinetic war. Both sides are engaged in it. Those who swallow whole one sides (or the other) propaganda are being psychologically manipulated. Lets see what happens before going off half-cocked.
Posted by: Muthaucker | Oct 24 2022 14:53 utc | 69
Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 24 2022 14:42 utc | 64
Very well and wisely said.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 24 2022 14:55 utc | 70
I dont get why anybody would take marx still seriously. Nothing happened the way he predicted it. Nothing.
Posted by: Orgel | Oct 24 2022 13:05 utc | 22
Marx was not Nostradamus, whose predictions are not so reliable, either. What Marx’s accomplishment is all about is analysis of capitalism, and in this, his ‘predictions’ are entirely correct. That he could not analyze finance capitalism is simply the nascent state of finance capitalism in his time. Marxism is not static, it grows and adapts to change and circumstance, to things as they are.
Posted by: Tedder | Oct 24 2022 14:56 utc | 71
The dirty bomb threat is real.
Posted by: WJ | Oct 24 2022 14:14 utc | 52
Threats (by definition) cannot be real. Threats are just words. “Intent” and “Capability” are the components of Threat.
“Dirty” bombs are psychological area denial (AD) weapons. They have no military benefit). They are used by terrorists (although I am unaware of one ever being used) to attempt to place an area in a psychological “no-go” status. The radiation is basically harmless. Parts of the world with large uranium deposits have more background radiation than a dirty bomb could produce.
Stop being manipulated by propaganda.
Posted by: Muthaucker | Oct 24 2022 15:05 utc | 72
Who cares if you wish the possible UK PM well? This is a Ukraine thread.
Bacon @ 65
Exactly!
The UK’s foreign policy is connected to Ukraine debacle. Boris te clown and the dumb Truss were fuelling that wastage.
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 15:05 utc | 73
@ Down South | Oct 24 2022 14:49 utc | 68
Are we supposed to believe all this one-sided chatter? Here’s some from the other side, for balance.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2022 15:05 utc | 74
Lavrov is on same page as MoD, says they have the goods on the schemers. He will bring this to the UN. He has no illusions about what West or UN will do.
Let me tell you something very basic about nuclear. Everyone constantly moves the decimal place. Back when my father did this work and got a report of a radiation leak first thing he did was see how many hands it had passed through before reaching him and assume an order of magnitude reduction for each party in the line. Then he went to site and did his own observations. Because no one at all is honest about any of this. And damn few even know how to run a test. Every operating engineer learned how in the Navy, where they would not have been if they had two brain cells.
Which is why if some fool sets off a dirty bomb it could easily be 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 orders of magnitude greater than the plotters intended. You think maybe the people running this show are rocket scientists? Brain surgeons? Nukular geniuses?
Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 24 2022 15:07 utc | 75
Anyone can tell me results of a dirty bomb detonation?
IE: range, composition, capability etc. Thankyou.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Oct 24 2022 13:44 utc | 36
The mod describes it here:
https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1169908&full
Posted by: Mary | Oct 24 2022 15:13 utc | 76
Posted by: Muthaucker | Oct 24 2022 15:05 utc | 73
By “real” I mean exactly that there are grounds for believing that Ukraine and/or elements in UK or US intelligence have the intent and capability of doing this.
I don’t claim to be able to specify in advance how dangerous or harmless such an explosion would in reality prove to be. I am skeptical that one should be as dismissive about this as you seem to be. But in any case the point of course is not only the destruction but the media drama and public hysteria accompanied by such an event among the western domestic populace and certain countries who (the US thinks, rightly or wrongly) may be leveraged by such an event.
If this happens do you think Russia will idly stand by, knowing all the while that it happened only because of UK US approval?
Posted by: WJ | Oct 24 2022 15:20 utc | 77
Which is why if some fool sets off a dirty bomb it could easily be 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 orders of magnitude greater than the plotters intended.
Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 24 2022 15:07 utc | 76
Dirty bombs spread radioactive particles around. There is no nuclear yield i.e. the compression (squeezing) of nuclear materials in such a fashion that a chain reaction begins.
The nuclear material in a dirty bomb would probably be medical waste (nuclear medicine) that has decayed beyond it useful life. It is done for the psychological effect.
Posted by: Muthaucker | Oct 24 2022 15:21 utc | 78
re: WJ | Oct 24 2022 15:20 utc | 78
you wrote “If this happens do you think Russia will idly stand by, knowing all the while that it happened only because of UK US approval?”
It is worse than that because the Russian MoD briefing stated that “we have information about contacts between the Office of the President of Ukraine and representatives of the United Kingdom regarding the possible reception of technologies to create nuclear weapons.”
In other words, the UK is directly involved in the Ukrainian construction of a ‘dirty bomb’.
Posted by: Steven Starr | Oct 24 2022 15:26 utc | 79
Thus Spake Zarathustra @ 36
No. No one can tell you that. First question would be how much plutonium was in the mix, plutonium being directly toxic in miniscule quantities. MoD description in Mary’s post is a guess.
MO3 @ 37
Complete bullshit. There is a thriving grey market in medical nuclear materials, they are transported routinely and no one sees that. There is really nothing that could be observed. The rare occasions grey medical materials get spotted it is a practitioner advertising procedures that require quantities of those materials and there is no record of a legal purchase. And then, nothing happens. Dual nationals, you know which nationals I refer to, are completely immune from prosecution.
Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 24 2022 15:30 utc | 80
Ukrainian TG-channel “Resident” writes:
“Our source in the Presidential Office said that the Office of the President has developed a strategy for defeating Russia, through methods of destabilizing the domestic political situation and defeating the enemy in certain sectors of the front.
Bankovaya decided to take into account the historical experience of Germany in the First World War, when the defeat at the front and mass protests forced Berlin to capitulate, and later led to the overthrow of the Kaiser regime.
In 2021, a center specializing in information and psychological operations in Russia was created in Ukraine; for these purposes, telegram channels were created / bought out in the Russian Federation, which were scaled in the spring into a single information network with management in Kyiv.
A similar mentality simplified the work of the Center, which built a single communication line of work with the CIPSO / SBU / CPD under the supervision of British intelligence and relayed the necessary semantic guidelines to the Russian Federation.
After the start of mobilization in Russia and a successful campaign to discredit the Kremlin’s policy, Bankovaya decided to expand the network of telegram channels and create more than a thousand small regional TG channels that should shape public opinion based on reflective narratives. The budget has been increased several times, which allows for paid content to promote the necessary meanings through Russian LOMs, which voice the messages necessary for the CIPSO.”
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/16418
Posted by: Down South | Oct 24 2022 15:32 utc | 81
re: WJ | Oct 24 2022 15:20 utc | 78
Regarding the construction and use of a Ukrainian ‘dirty bomb’, you wrote, “If this happens do you think Russia will idly stand by, knowing all the while that it happened only because of UK US approval?
The situation is worse than you might think, because the Russian MoD stated in its “Briefing on radiation security threats by the chief of nuclear, biological and chemical protection troops Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov” (MoA scrubbed my comment that included the link to this briefing) that: “we have information about contacts between the Office of the President of Ukraine and representatives of the United Kingdom regarding the possible reception of technologies to create nuclear weapons“.
In other words, the Russians believe that the UK is directly involved in the construction of a dirty bomb (just as they have been directly involved in the bombing of the Kerch bridge, etc etc).
Posted by: Steven Starr | Oct 24 2022 15:32 utc | 82
If this happens do you think Russia will idly stand by, knowing all the while that it happened only because of UK US approval?
Posted by: WJ | Oct 24 2022 15:20 utc | 78
Ok, I understand you better now.
It’s hard to predict what the consequences of a dirty bomb detonation would be. Again, dirty bombs are primarily psychological effect weapons. They have almost zero military utility. Militaries understand the radiation threat from a dirty bomb is basically nil.
So I would think about which side wants to deny the other the use of an area. Where the dirty bomb is detonated would be key to understanding who perpetrated it.
Posted by: Muthaucker | Oct 24 2022 15:34 utc | 83
In other words, the Russians believe that the UK is directly involved in the construction of a dirty bomb
Posted by: Steven Starr | Oct 24 2022 15:32 utc | 82
Today it was Gerasimov’s turn to make phone calls. He talked to chief of the British defense staff.
Posted by: rk | Oct 24 2022 15:38 utc | 84
Rishi Sunak – after his first televised address as Tory leader – left Conservative HQ smiling and with a wave to the small crowd that had gathered.
There were shouts from the crowd of ‘”happy Diwali”.
A few minutes earlier, one Conservative MP leaving the building told me: “We have a grown up in charge now.”
Another said: “At last I can look my constituents in the eye and say I can back what the government says”.
And yet another commented: “There is a groundswell of optimism in the party now”.
BBC
Well, no mention of Zelly, or Ukraine or even “Putin’s fault” …
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 15:42 utc | 85
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2022 15:05 utc | 75
I don’t expect anything. You are free to dismiss as and how you please.
Posted by: Down South | Oct 24 2022 15:44 utc | 86
I dont believe in that dirty bomb hype.
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Oct 24 2022 11:29 utc | 3
I didn’t believe anyone would ever blow up Nordstream 1 and 2 either.
Posted by: Michigan Dude | Oct 24 2022 15:44 utc | 87
NATO needs to increase supplies of everything Ukraine needs so that the Armed Forces of Ukraine can fight all winter
This was stated by Alliance Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, quoted by DW:
“Winter is coming. And this was also the main message of the meeting of NATO defense ministers: we need to increase the supply of everything from winter clothes, generators, tents, so that the Ukrainians can prolong the hostilities all winter.”
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/16419
Posted by: Down South | Oct 24 2022 15:46 utc | 88
I am puzzled.
All this talk of if, and when Ukraine/MI6 will set off a dirty bomb. The Russians know who, where and how, so surely Russia can, “neutralize” them as they say in standard issue spy movies. Why wait for them to do anything, why wait for them to assemble it? Ridiculous.
My guess is; the story is true, and Russia is using it as a, “Look over there!” ploy while they continue to assemble their attack force.
Posted by: Bonami | Oct 24 2022 15:49 utc | 89
apparently….’suggesting Kiev may have to make concessions to reach a peace deal with Russia’ is grounds for dismissal, lol… more insanity from the masters of insanity.. this is in reference to the romanian defense minister that resigned… this guy was obviously too rational!!
Posted by: james | Oct 24 2022 15:52 utc | 90
“Yet it was Russia that invaded Ukraine and annexed four of it’s regions”
Sorry but there have been referendums to join the RF and the people choose this.No one forced them to leave the former ukraine.
Posted by: LuBa | Oct 24 2022 15:55 utc | 91
he basically decided to leave the nut house.. kind of why i avoid the ukraine open threads too, lol…
@ gottlieb | Oct 24 2022 14:32 utc | 61
good one! a lot of truth in that as well..
Posted by: james | Oct 24 2022 15:56 utc | 93
My guess is; the story is true, and Russia is using it as a, “Look over there!” ploy while they continue to assemble their attack force.
Posted by: Bonami | Oct 24 2022 15:49 utc | 89
Perhaps. If the Russians have intelligence (sounds like communications intercepts) about the planning of a dirty bomb attack then they should release it. Keeping sources and methods from compromise of course.
Since dirty bombs are psychological effect weapons, I would think (and this is just a guess) that the side stoking fear of a dirty bomb is the side seeking to benefit from it. Kind of a “whoever smelt it dealt it” situation.
Posted by: Muthaucker | Oct 24 2022 15:56 utc | 94
Paulg@39
UK’s prime minister is an Indian. London’s mayor is a Pakistani. Both were born in the UK, while their parents were born in the former British colony, undivided at that time, as India and Pakistan. Times are changing for former colonial looters.
You are wrong there. Sunak’s family is no more Indian than many USAians are German. The family are East African Asian, ie they migrated to Africa in the late 19th or early 20th century. They were likely some of the people expelled from Uganda by Idi Armin. Sunack’s education was at Winchester, Oxford and Stanford followed by time at Goldmann Sacks. This puts him firmly in the group of globalists who thought that looting Russia and later Ukraine was a good idea. As far as I can see he will be putting the comfort of his banker friends way before the need of the British people.
Posted by: Hereward | Oct 24 2022 15:58 utc | 95
@85 Any comments from Ben Wallace yet? I don’t think he will tolerate any back-sliding on Ukraine.
Posted by: dh | Oct 24 2022 15:58 utc | 96
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 24 2022 15:42 utc | 85
A few minutes earlier, one Conservative MP leaving the building told me: “We have a grown up in charge now.”
The real test will be if he can survive the “Zelensky Effect”.
What will Sunak transform into once he kisses Zelensky’s ring?
Will he suddenly call a halt to pissing Britain’s wealth away?
Will he dutifully scuttle his country to fuel Ukraine’s needs?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 24 2022 15:58 utc | 97
marko
The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has prepared forces and means in case of a “dirty bomb” being detonated by Ukraine.
Russia still complaining and explaining.
Russia’s enemies are not afraid of Russia.
On point!
Last couple of days Russia has been whining and complaining that UN should take charge of their problems. LOL! Is Russia a third world army? Are Ukraine stronger?
When one look at the war, it is like Russia is fighting a much stronger enemy. Perhaps Ukraine’s military should be leveld’ up to be one of the more competent in the world and Russia be put down 20-30 places in the ranking?
One wonder why Russia sacrifice so much lives of young men when they should have weapons to end this war anytime, instead they have 8 month war running nowhere!
Posted by: Zanon | Oct 24 2022 15:58 utc | 98
There are some interesting comments above. Let’s develop one thread that theorises that (a) a dirty bomb is set off and (b) Russia knows it did not do it. The west will claim that Russia was to blame and the MSM etc will produce all sorts of evidence that they did. So whatever happens Russia will be vilified in the west.
There is or would an argument that Ukraine has gone rogue and against the wishes of its NATO handlers, but that does not appear to be what is happenning. It appears to me and almost certainly to the Russians (who appear to know the score) that this is in fact a NATO false flag. You note I’m ruling out the “Russia did it really” hypothesis here.
Well would Russia react? Yes. They have to. How? My guess is by calling a full moblisation and moving to whatever defcon 3 is in their world. And crushing the Ukraine totally. Along with a total boycott of vital exports to NATO nations. And I’m guessing there would be malfunctions at various oil refineries etc.
How would NATO react? Well Defcon 3 certainly, but possibly also the deployment of troops into western Ukraine – securing Odessa and the offshore oil and gas fields, possibly Polish forces acting as peace keepers in eastern Galicia. Maybe some attempt to get into a shooting war – no fly zone for instance. Maybe direct conflict on the ground.
What about the ROW? Methinks the people that run Nations may not be as stupid as the western public. There are a huge number of scenarios that might encompass Iran, Saudi, Turkey, Israel, China etc etc. None of them good.
The world would be in a very dangerous place. One step from MAD.
So why would NATO risk all this? This scenario must have been gamed out dozens of times. My guess is that it has escalated badly in every one of them.
I am left thinking that the NATO actors have lost any sense of rationality here. So if it is completely irrational could it be a Russian false flag? The only reason would be if Putin was indeed the mad bad Vlad the MSM paint him to be. And I cannot see he would survive very long if this was the case. And what would Russia have to gain? Like most here I assess the Ukraine’s chance of a military victory as vanishingly small. Unless we have fundamentally misunderstood the dynamics.
You are sort of left with the view that the current USA (and UK) MICs are out of control, in the USA because POTUS is senile. Who knows who is in charge in the UK? But maybe some faction or cabal in the DC swamp thinks it needs to risk nuclear war to be able to fight Russia? Or maybe they think they can in some way prevail in a nuclear war?
Nothing seems to make sense to me. The lunatics appear to be running the assylum.
Posted by: marcjf | Oct 24 2022 16:04 utc | 99
The media is the dirty bomb
The purpose of the Ukrainian “dirty bomb” would be to simulate a Russian tactical nuclear weapon. Detonation of the devise would be followed by the entry of the US 101st Airborne Division into Odessa.
I expect the false-flag attack to happen somewhere in Nikolayev. The city is already being evacuated for this purpose. The device would consist of several used fuel rods from some Ukrainian nuclear power plant and up to 1000 tons of explosive. The resulting radioactive mushroom cloud would be almost indistinguishable from that of a nuclear blast. The explosion would be timed to coincide with the arrival of Russian Kalibr missiles.
It would take several hours to analyze the fallout to determine that the origin of the fission products is a nuclear reactor and not a bomb. (The relative abundance of isotopes would tell the time of their creation.) Americans would not publish their results until maybe much later.
The Western media would scream about a Russian nuclear attack and demand retaliation. Remember, this is the same media that told us Russia bombed its own nuclear power plant and blew up its own gas pipeline.
It would make no difference, that the fallout would be from uranium, while Russian nuclear weapons use plutonium. Evil Putin used a uranium bomb to create a false-flag.
I have collected speculation and sources on my Syria page here.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Oct 24 2022 16:06 utc | 100