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October 19, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-177
Comments
Re Jacq 93:
It may be the derivatives markets themselves that go boom when the BRICS announce that all trade among BRICS will be in a new commodity-based currency. Especially if the House of Saud is accepted into it.
Posted by: Ciaran | Oct 19 2022 23:36 utc | 101
Meanwhile, Finnian Cunningham exposes “Western Hypocrisy Over Ukraine” by comparing its attitude towards Ethiopia and the internal chaos spawned there.
It’s fascinating to read this thread occasionally.
First for the collection of true believers who have been wrong about everything with respect to the war.
Note that this has gone far longer than Putin thought: TROLL!!
Note that Russia underestimated Ukraine’s resistance and that its recent gains were not some 11th-dimension chess played by the Russians. TROLL!!
Ever more absurd justifications. Ever more absurd statements.
All stemming from the basic truth – the War was a mistake.
But none of the true believers here can even begin to recognize that very obvious point.
Posted by: No War | Oct 19 2022 23:49 utc | 103
@ Zanon | Oct 19 2022 16:23 utc | 2
Ukrainian troops continue to strike at the locks of the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station in order to flood the territory of the Kherson region
Perhaps not. Ukraine has been shelling the bridge adjacent to the locks. . .here . . . Russia keeps trying to correct the damage while Ukraine keeps destroying it. Meanwhile, some are promoting the “flooding threat” chatter.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 20 2022 0:02 utc | 104
All stemming from the basic truth – the War was a mistake.
But none of the true believers here can even begin to recognize that very obvious point.
Posted by: No War | Oct 19 2022 23:49 utc | 104
The “mistake” was to negotiate the Minsk Accords with no intention of implementing them. Then to ignore Moscow’s request for a new joint security framework. Then to start shelling Donbass again.
Start there with your analysis Captain Obvious.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Oct 20 2022 0:02 utc | 105
Posted by: No War | Oct 19 2022 23:49 utc | 104
I disagree, I think it has gone on far longer than Biden thought, and he was to be basking in glory by election time.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 20 2022 0:08 utc | 106
wage laborer
“And let us not forget that the elections are rigged, anyway. The HAVA Act put the entire country (almost) onto unaccountable (in more ways than one) computerized voting machines.
We have no idea how people actually vote, we only know what the squawking heads tell us on election night. Or the next day if the fix has to be fixed.
The entire thing is a farce and a travesty.”
american elections. totally agree. i used to think we could overwhelm the fix, and i think on the lower levels that might be sometimes true, but yeah. and now “lefties” are all in on the nato murder and rape machine.
Posted by: polarbear4 | Oct 20 2022 0:11 utc | 107
People! Stop responding to Zanon! It’s past where anyone’s arguing, it’s spamming and makes things unreadable.
Posted by: line islands | Oct 20 2022 0:17 utc | 108
No War @104–
I’ll agree with your statement that “the war was a mistake,” but it was always a mistake by the Outlaw US Empire, not Russia, where engaging in a war to stop the genocide perpetrated by the Outlaw US Empire in Donbas was CORRECT.
@line islands | Oct 20 2022 0:17 utc | 109
People! Stop responding to Zanon! . .
Go fish. I’ll respond to anyone I want, including you, especially to comments which I believe are not accurate.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 20 2022 0:22 utc | 110
First time poster. Imo, this blog desperately needs a better comment system. Specifically, a requirement to create an account in order to comment coupled with a feature that enables you to “ignore” other users. An ignore list.
It’s painful having to navigate endless troll comments and then another wave of comments complaining about the troll comments. A waste of everybody’s time. An account login in order to comment coupled with an ignore feature would solve the problem.
Thanks to genuine commentators for sharing valuable insight and information.
Posted by: Jax | Oct 20 2022 0:24 utc | 111
Posted by: Jax | Oct 20 2022 0:24 utc | 112
Amazing! You figured out what’s wrong in your first post.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 20 2022 0:34 utc | 112
Many including myself read backwards making keeping a mental ignore list rather easy.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 20 2022 0:42 utc | 113
Jax | Oct 20 2022 0:24 utc | 112
2. https://pastebin.com/k9ZL7hVS
1. The psy operator always asks for site changes to lay groundwork for moral leadership. Fuck off, Karen.
Posted by: sippy the shot glass | Oct 20 2022 0:44 utc | 114
The Ukraine thread has attracted lots of newcomers and it takes time to sort them.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 20 2022 0:45 utc | 115
Jax | Oct 20 2022 0:24 utc | 112
“First time poster. Imo, this blog desperately needs a better comment system…” [Censorship demands follow.]
You’re brand new and choose to introduce yourself with demands that the comment system which has managed to get through for so many years now be radically changed to meet your preference. God knows what you’ll demand once you get to the specifics of content.
As always, I recommend a default against censorship, to be overridden only in extreme cases.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Oct 20 2022 0:52 utc | 116
my recent experiences with being censored online give me a greater appreciation for b’s latitude in allowing comments (even yenwoda comments), though it often tries my patience.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 20 2022 1:04 utc | 117
Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 19 2022 19:37 utc | 54
You utter twat. If there are two “trolls” ahead of me in the troll championships, then people are hardly fucking trying, are they? I barely post here at all. Hoist by your own petard. Tosser.
Posted by: Herr Ringbone | Oct 20 2022 1:09 utc | 118
I Used some quite strong language on the Saker “Evil thread”. I slagged off nearly everyone trying to make war. I don’t think I used any swear words, maybe a few…
The only thing the moderator deleted was the photo of a newborn baby girl
You will see a photo of me, before you see a photo of my Baby Grand Child
She is just as Beautiful as The Welsh Newborn Child
I have got one of these. She is my Grand Daughter.
She is hardly two weeks old.
https://photographybylorna.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/05-9614-post/newborn-baby-photographer-cardiff-south-wales-lorna-knightingale-uk-3.jpg
Give her a chance.
Stop Bombing people.
It doesn’t help
Our Grand Daughter is tiny, but doing well – a bit premature – The NHS have been Brilliant, before you Russians and Americans slag off England Again.
Tony
Posted by: tonyopmoc | Oct 20 2022 1:20 utc | 119
Jax | Oct 20 2022 0:24 utc | 112 ,
a very useful tool for hiding low signal to noise posters.
and clearing out repetitive junk comments/users.
step 1, install tampermonkey add-on in browser
step 2, grab the MOA Barfly code at https://pastebin.com/k9ZL7hVS
(copy/paste all script text using TM “Create a new script” option, and save)
(buttons will appear beside each user names, poster ID will appear at top of each post, but can be changed )
step 3, add the handle(s) ID/Nyms of those who offend.
works very well with Firefox – you can unblock a name at any time to check their latest comment.
makes skimming though pages much faster & easier, less wasteful distractions.
Posted by: SeanAU | Oct 20 2022 1:20 utc | 120
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Oct 19 2022 21:19 utc | 77
The “west” deserves to lose.
–
Unfortunately “deserve” has nothing to do with it.
As much as they do deserve it but it doesn’t work like that more’s the pity.
Posted by: BearishPanda | Oct 20 2022 1:22 utc | 121
wagelaborer | Oct 20 2022 5:54 utc | 120
Nice job landing the sticky spot! I must say that the userscript for blocking at the above pastebin link is pretty sweet.
SwissArmyMan | Oct 20 2022 0:45 utc | 116
I’m not saying that shaping actions on the information battlefield are always the work of a psy operator, but very similar and consistent meta-shaping activity was prominent in another discussion group I saw get taken over by the Man. But when someone introduces themselves by announcing their total lack of topical contribution to the site and demanding style and policy changes, they are probably not here to contribute to the camaraderie, and are best dealt with roughly until they go to hell stop breathing give us enough reason to cater to them. In the event they prove you were right the first time and should never have entertained them, send them.
Posted by: sippy the shot glass | Oct 20 2022 1:22 utc | 122
‘Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 20 2022 0:42 utc | 114
Many including myself read backwards making keeping a mental ignore list rather easy.”
I do the same – and when I see a reply by certain posters, that I won’t even name, I scroll by completely. Life’s too short.
Posted by: Just Observing | Oct 20 2022 1:35 utc | 123
Surprised by some of the replies to my suggesting a solution to an obvious problem. If other users didn’t think there was a problem with trolls clogging up the chat, there wouldn’t be multiple comments on every thread complaining about the trolls would there?! Perhaps some of you secretly enjoy sparring with the trolls and/or complaining about them. Personally, I’d rather spend time reading the views of genuine people and not people who (for the most part) are being paid to spread lies, clog up the chat, distract and so on.
The ability to ignore users at an individual account level isn’t censorship or curtailing anyone’s free speech at all as some have suggested. It’s a feature that you don’t have to use and unless I’m mistaken the blog itself welcomes any and all comments. Hence, not a free speech issue.
A blog where around 50% of the comments are trolls, people responding/arguing with trolls or complaining about the trolls will almost certainly put some readers off and prevent some people from participating in the discussion. People who may be able to make valuable contributions but don’t want to spend their time navigated endless garbage.
Having said all that, it’s not my blog. I’ve made a suggestion that I think would improve the comments section. The owner can accept or ignore as he wishes.
Posted by: Jax | Oct 20 2022 1:38 utc | 124
All stemming from the basic truth – the War was a mistake.
Posted by: the true believer No War | Oct 19 2022 23:49 utc | 104
Yes the War was a mistake.
It was a mistake for the US to declare war on the independence and freedom of Ukraine and her citizens long before violence erupted in 2013/2014.
It was a mistake for the Ukraine Govt to declare war on it’s own citizens in the Donbass and Crimea.
It was a mistake for the Ukraine Govt to amass 60,000+ military troops and war machines along the contact line with the remants of the Donbass republics from December 2021 in readiness to attack and then begin heavy shelling of civilian areas from around 15th February 2022.
It was a mistake for the USA, Germany, France, the EU, NATO and Ukraine to completely ignore the Minsk II Agreements of 2015. Doing so has directly led to War in Ukraine which will soon expand across the world.
It was a much bigger mistake to ignore the peace/security terms offered to the US, Nato and Europe by Russia in 2021 and into 2022.
It was a massive mistake by Zelensky’s Kiev regime to reject the Peace Accords they themselves had asked for in April 2022 in Turkey.
Everyday the Zelensky Regime remains in power in Kiev is a serious mistake by Ukrainians. The consequences will be become increasingly dire.
Posted by: SeanAU | Oct 20 2022 1:43 utc | 125
Russia won’t act named on the American election schedule because it doesn’t matter, but Ukraine might have to because Biden will want Ukrainian victories in the the front page. US foreign policy at the micro level is almost always tied to domestic politics. Will a successful Ukrainian offensive convince any American to vote one way or the other? Not at all.
But Biden wants and needs headlines that are favorable and make him look tough and in charge. So he is the type to demand Ukraine do something for him that generates headlines (he’s always been this way). It’s the same as him telling state governors to pardon cannabis convictions or oil companies not to buy back stocks/issue dividends or tell gas stations to lower prices. Whether he has the power to do these things or whether they make sense are both secondary to “looking tough and in charge” for the media.
Killing thousands of Ukrainians in an offensive that may or may not make military sense is a small price to pay for burnishing his reputation.
Posted by: Lex | Oct 20 2022 1:44 utc | 126
Alastair Crooke, today —
“the Indian Foreign Minister recently, when accosted by a European demanding to know whether, or not, he supported Ukraine – that is, faced by the standard western binary: the ‘with us or against us’ meme – the Indian diplomat riposted simply that it was high time that Europeans stopped thinking that ‘their wars’ were the globe’s wars: ‘We don’t have a side: We are our own side’, he replied.”
Posted by: Elmagnostic | Oct 20 2022 1:48 utc | 127
Posted by: SeanAU | Oct 20 2022 1:20 utc | 121
Thanks. I use FireFox so will give that a try.
Posted by: Jax | Oct 20 2022 1:51 utc | 128
In France, they protest, and go on strike to try and get rid of their Evil Government.
In England we have almost given up protesting because our government changes nearly every day.
Posted by: tonyopmoc | Oct 20 2022 1:52 utc | 129
Having said all that, it’s not my blog. I’ve made a suggestion that I think would improve the comments section. The owner can accept or ignore as he wishes.
Posted by: Jax | Oct 20 2022 1:38 utc | 125
I am not inclined to give you any sh*t about it, but it is precisely the kludgey nature of the blog that makes is unsuitable for the more elaborate games that trolls like to play. On the whole, it wastes a lot less of my time than various other blogs I have visited with better production values. A matter of taste I think.
Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 20 2022 1:58 utc | 130
an in depth analysis/opinion/history commentary:
[EaP] Eastern Partnership, the EU’s Geopolitical Gamble Leading Europe Into the Abyss
Laura Ruggeri by October 15, 2022
The European Union’s co-optation of six ex-Soviet countries around an anti-Russian agenda turned them into a hybrid warfare battleground and fundamentally undermined Europe’s security architecture. … a special partnership with Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine.
https://strategic-culture.org/news/2022/10/15/eastern-partnership-eu-geopolitical-gamble-leading-europe-into-abyss/
Posted by: SeanAU | Oct 20 2022 2:02 utc | 131
Posted by: Jax | Oct 20 2022 1:38 utc | 125
An ignore feature would be truly useful, but the rest of the blog is fine particularly it’s lack of threading and the ability to edit posts – if these convenient features were there we’d have dozens more trolls than we have now.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 20 2022 2:20 utc | 132
Chinese Embassy in Ukraine issued this morning a “Notice on the Transfer and Evacuation Guide and Consular Service Arrangements for Chinese Citizens in Ukraine”.
Reminding Chinese people in Ukraine to be ready for evacuation at any time.⚡️
Posted by: SeanAU | Oct 20 2022 2:29 utc | 133
I am very happy with this site and see no reason why i should make it easy for the security services to track me down. of course they will but at least now they have to do some work for it.
There are lots of different types of trolls and by and large i say leave them be. Some like Zanon are simply trying to sow discord and help tempt Russia into taking action that would justify WWIII. I think like tummy bugs, better out than in-we should know what they are trying- easy to skip by. There are others who are not strictly trolls but actually believe what they write. I think they have a right to be here, even if stupid.
There is only one group of trolls that I would ban/remove and that is the deliberate and probably fake racists. Those who decry Jews etc are in my opinion agent provocateurs, coming here to make this blog seem like a site for abhorrent racists. This group should be removed for the reputation of the blog. For those few who actually believe their racist stuff, they should go read up and learn how to get a point across without seeming to support genocide. It is for example perfectly reasonable to denounce Zionists, because that is an ideological choice that adults make and it is no different to calling out US exeptionalism or British imperialism. However calling someone out because of a specific race or religion they were born into and about which they had no choice is despicable.
Posted by: watcher | Oct 20 2022 2:31 utc | 134
Posted by: No War | Oct 19 2022 23:49 utc | 104
Note that this has gone far longer than Putin thought: TROLL!!
Do you read minds? How did you know how long Putin “thought” the war would go?
It’s clear to me he planned for a long conflict.
Note that Russia underestimated Ukraine’s resistance
Because you sat down with Putin, had a personal chat and received his assessment of the resistance first hand?
and that its recent gains were not some 11th-dimension chess played by the Russians. TROLL!
What ‘recent gains’?
Some empty ground?
I can talk about their recent losses in terms of thousands dead AFU bodies …
All stemming from the basic truth – the War was a mistake.
All war is a mistake.
The only question is whose mistake it is …
Wars happen regardless, some will benefit from it and for them it was not a mistake, others will suffer consequences and for them “it was a mistake”.
We’ll know in the order of months or years, but nobody has the wisdom to know at this time.
But none of the true believers here can even begin to recognize that very obvious point.
You on the other hand are all knowing and all wise …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 20 2022 2:33 utc | 135
I suggest politically minded charities/groups in the English speaking west should do some fundraisers ie betting which UK ministers would outlast various vegetables.
Clearly Kamikwasi and Braverman and not outlast the lettuce. Not sure any of them would outlast a carrot.
Posted by: watcher | Oct 20 2022 2:36 utc | 136
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Oct 19 2022 23:09 utc | 95
However, how many of Putin’s decrees have been rejected by the same council ? I think that would be more telling.
Putin tends to follow the painfully slow process of consensus building before he brings things to a vote.
He takes time to develop consensus around decrees until he is absolutely sure the council will approve.
Unlike the approach of gambling that the council will approve he makes sure that the outcome is determined before the vote – by fair consensus.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 20 2022 2:39 utc | 137
@ too scents | Oct 19 2022 20:21 utc | 66
your comment about ‘Ukrainians shocked about Republicans’ is in line with my observations, for example:
On BBC today (10/19/2022) – Hard Talk program – the host (Sackur) interviewed the minister of energy of Ukraine – and asked him some hard questions about the possible territorial concessions, about how to deescalate, how to continue getting support from EU, which is in distress itself etc.etc. and the poor minister evaded, as well as he could, but it was a sign to me that there is some directive “from above” to see that Ukraine leaders ‘get the message’ – the smarter brains seem to take over in the ruling circles.
Likewise, on Saker on 10/17th the talk of Martyanov indicates that there is growing realization in the ruling elite that this war is not doing well and some sort of “climbing down” is beginning. The media scribes (or scribals…😊) need to take notice and see that their helping hands and half brains get some sinecure positions elsewhere, or they will need to change their tune. He mentions prominently Anne Applebaum. I think the infamous writers who promoted “yellow cake” lies and other claims come to mind. Nobody hears of them anymore.
https://thesaker.is/realization-sets-in-andrei-martyanov/
Posted by: fanto | Oct 20 2022 2:47 utc | 138
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 20 2022 2:33 utc | 136
I think one needs to distinguish between hoping and planning.
I am sure that initially Putin/Lavrov HOPED for a peaceful resolution – Plan A. when that failed they initiated plan B the short sharp SMO and again a peace treaty but less generous than under Plan A. Totally unbelieving the stupidity of Ukraine, they did a rethink and reluctantly moved to Plan C, which was the slow grind which has frustrated most of us. Although they had some success in say Mariupol, and eventually Luhansk, this grind was I suspect harder than they anticipated and there was some indecision. Trying to minimise Russian casualties and also civilian casualties in Ukraine, made this a wearing and only marginally successful strategy. I suspect that they had hoped to continue this until winter and possibly change of government in many NATO countries- Italy, USA and even Germany. When Ukraine showed how reckless it was regarding shelling the NPP, German intransigence and the much touted Kherson offensive, eventually they moved to plan D ie the referenda and inclusion of all four provinces into Russia, again perhaps hoping that the west would see common sense. Then came the destruction of Nordstream and the Crimean bridge. We are now in Plan E which essentially involves freezing Ukraine out.
If Ukraine floods Kherson, I suspect it will be Plan F which will be formal declaration of war, hopefully just with Ukraine, not NATO. If NATO formally gets involved then heaven help us Plan G Armageddon.
Posted by: watcher | Oct 20 2022 2:54 utc | 139
At least one of the three pipes still works…
And someone posts photography of one of them labelled nordstream 1 underwater..
I have done a bit of diving and a bit of physics and maths..though I am not an expert in pipelines or diving..but the photography I have seen looks like someone had chucked a 1950’s English metal dustbin in sea, about 50 years ago and photographed it with not a particularly good underwater camera…
The metal is far too thin…
Sure nearly everyone is going to believe it even in the US Government..Might Spike Prices of Gas for a bit…
But I don’t believe The Russian or German Governments are That Thick.
There is nothing to stop them turning the Gas back on to Germany, and not telling The Americans
How could the Americans ever know, if The Russians and the Germans don’t tell them.
What are we afraid of in Europe?
Just don’t tell The Americans
The Americans are so thick, they will never know.
Except Europe Doesn’t Freeze and Starve to Death.
The Germans are our Friends
I don’t Like Americans
They Attacked Us
Unforgivable
We never did that to you
Americans – not nice people now
They are trying to kill us in Europe
Tony
Posted by: tonyopmoc | Oct 20 2022 3:01 utc | 140
@ watcher | Oct 20 2022 2:31 utc | 135
very good comment, thank you. Very well put. Nothing to add;
I have also adopted the “reading from behind” rule (not leading from behind…..)
Posted by: fanto | Oct 20 2022 3:06 utc | 141
Posted by: Elmagnostic | Oct 20 2022 1:48 utc | 128
“the Indian Foreign Minister recently, when accosted by a European demanding to know whether, or not, he supported Ukraine – that is, faced by the standard western binary: the ‘with us or against us’ meme – the Indian diplomat riposted simply that it was high time that Europeans stopped thinking that ‘their wars’ were the globe’s wars: ‘We don’t have a side: We are our own side’, he replied.”
Very true. The same ripost Nelson Mandela made in a reply to a question in 1970:
One of the mistakes which some political analysts make is to think that their enemies should be our enemies.
https://twitter.com/BRI_SL/status/1266473334683860993
Posted by: Menz | Oct 20 2022 3:08 utc | 142
reply to 102
I really wish the BRICS could invent their own currency. However, I don’t think that’s possible. I think they would end up with the same mess as the Euro because discipline is impossible.
I suspect currency swaps and the yuan will be the way to go.
However, I’d like to heard about any practical schemes out there.
Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 20 2022 3:13 utc | 143
Down South #4
On drone design and origins. I read many of the comments to that post at https://sonar21.com/why-is-the-united-states-bombing-kiev/
I am inclined to the concept that the current drones are Russian built. I accept that Iran designs are on hand but in the fog of this war, I am not sure they are yet in use to the same extent as the Geran-2.
There are others that seem Iranian and they have much longer range afaik.
Anyway it is a drone and artillery war for sure and the Ukranazis have no airforce or air defence worth a zac.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 20 2022 3:15 utc | 144
Posted by: watcher | Oct 20 2022 2:54 utc | 140
I think one needs to distinguish between hoping and planning.
Hope is an ever-present neuro-biological reaction but I think it plays almost no role in the planning of Putin and his staff.
Instead, “Hope” is replaced by a network of pre-developed Plans on the understanding that plans will fail and the failure should initiate the selection of a new path within the network of identified viable plans.
It’s all very mathematical. Logical. Strategic. The Russians are past masters of this game.
I am sure that initially Putin/Lavrov HOPED for a peaceful resolution – Plan A. when that failed they initiated plan B the short sharp SMO and again a peace treaty but less generous than under Plan A. … destruction of Nordstream and the Crimean bridge …If Ukraine floods Kherson, I suspect it will be Plan F
Indeed, but whatever “hope” may have been curdling in his gut at that time was irrelevant to his material actions.
The whole sequence of plans were prepared all the way up to the nuclear option and none of them were based on Hope.
Anyone suggesting that Putin “was hoping that …” or “gambled on the possibility of …” is ignorant.
Powers on the scale of Russia don’t gamble a thousand years of history on how one old man feels on a given morning after too much vodka the previous night.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 20 2022 3:18 utc | 145
” First time poster. Imo, this blog desperately needs a better comment system. Specifically, a requirement to create an account in order to comment coupled with a feature that enables you to “ignore” other users. An ignore list.
It’s painful having to navigate endless troll comments and then another wave of comments complaining about the troll comments. A waste of everybody’s time. An account login in order to comment coupled with an ignore feature would solve the problem.
Posted by: Jax | Oct 20 2022 0:24 utc | 112 ”
Yes ! An ignore list ! I’m all in, we all need our own personal echo chambers.
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Oct 20 2022 3:24 utc | 146
From way before The Greeks and The Romans..when you are obviously losing
Number 1 (English) Lesson Number 101 in (American Stupid)
Do not attack your friends
Fastest way to make you the enemy
Love can go to hate very quickly
So Fuck Off USA
You attacked us in Europe
Tony
Posted by: tonyopmoc | Oct 20 2022 3:28 utc | 147
SwissArmyMan #107
who responded to No War #104
“I disagree, I think it has gone on far longer than Biden thought, and he was to be basking in glory by election time.”
Well said soldier. Those pesky Russians make very few mistakes at the policy and strategy level these days. If anything they have designed this war to be the albatross around Biden’s neck and the EU’s ankles – winter is coming and with it some rather rude awakenings that only the Russians and their nordic ‘brothers’ would understand.
Lamentably, No War has indicated that there is a way to avoid the current confrontation. I see a UN hobbled to the UKUSA empires will, a NATO unwilling to discuss mutually satisfactory security, an EU beguiled and mesmerised by the USA viper and a Ukrainian state brim full of nazi ideology and lacking all forms of internal restraint.
Russia and its eurasian allies are implementing a solution that is age old and damaging, but the other side is devoid of listening let alone solving its mendacity.
Do we let nazism roam free No War?
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 20 2022 3:30 utc | 148
” However, how many of Putin’s decrees have been rejected by the same council ? I think that would be more telling.
Putin tends to follow the painfully slow process of consensus building before he brings things to a vote.
He takes time to develop consensus around decrees until he is absolutely sure the council will approve.
Unlike the approach of gambling that the council will approve he makes sure that the outcome is determined before the vote – by fair consensus.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 20 2022 2:39 utc | 138 ”
Thanks for totally avoiding my question.
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Oct 20 2022 3:30 utc | 149
Arch Bungle #148
“Powers on the scale of Russia don’t gamble a thousand years of history on how one old man feels on a given morning after too much vodka the previous night.”
Agreed and in my casino it is called the Yeltsin gambit and from recall the USA was evicted as soon as he lost the play.
Vlad the victor plays a cool hand.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 20 2022 3:36 utc | 150
Drones. Russia has it’s own and does not have Iranian drones.
https://tass.com/politics/1525105
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2022/10/19/691241/Iran-denies-drones-Ukraine-Russia
Don’t buy into the MSM.
Posted by: Joe | Oct 20 2022 3:41 utc | 151
Deplorable Commissar #95
“However, how many of Putin’s decrees have been rejected by the same council ? I think that would be more telling.”
So have you found the answer?
Or is it intended to hang in the air like a foul fart at the bar?
I see Russian executive government as being painfully precise and legalistic.
I imagine that decrees are designed and circulated as drafts to said Council in advance as a consultative minute. Much like a Cabinet Submission (in a westminster system) with recommendations and subject to final agreement followed by the formal Declaration. A consensus if you wish but not reliant on absolute agreement.
Russia has been through so much trouble and strife in the past century that I believe it to be incomprehensible that immense power resides in the personal whimsy of a President. Let alone that Putin actually seeks to have it that way.
Do some research and inform us but please don’t drop foul innuendo in the bar.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 20 2022 3:59 utc | 152
Isn’t it suspicious that 12 years ago the Polish President and his top generals were killed in an inexplicable plane crash and now we have a radicalized Poland leading the war against Russia? It reminds me of the saying, there are no coincidences in politics.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Oct 20 2022 4:03 utc | 153
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 20 2022 3:36 utc | 153
“Powers on the scale of Russia don’t gamble a thousand years of history on how one old man feels on a given morning after too much vodka the previous night.”
Agreed and in my casino it is called the Yeltsin gambit
I forgot to add a qualifier:
“… but when they do, they collapse quickly”
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 20 2022 4:04 utc | 154
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Oct 20 2022 3:30 utc | 152
Thanks for totally avoiding my question.
That was a direct answer. Do I have to spell out the implications?
1. Putin develops consensus, therefore he ensures that a vote is always successful (at least almost always)
2. Conversely, regular rejection of a decree indicates nothing more than a system which cannot reach consensus.
3. At best it indicates poorly understood decrees, at worst it indicates a leader out of touch with reality
4. Therefore, mere regular rejection of decrees is not an indicator of the level of democracy in a system
5. Conversely, mere regular acceptance of a decree does not indicate the lack of democracy in a system
6. At best it is a result of excellent consensus building and at worst is it a symptom of an environment of fear.
In sum:
No conclusion can be drawn from the mere fact that decrees are rejected, either regularly or rarely.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 20 2022 4:11 utc | 155
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 20 2022 3:18 utc | 148
I do not think we are disagreeing. I was using hope in a general sense of what a preferred outcome would be, without discounting the planning. I am inclined to think that with the failure of plan B (not so much failure as an almost unbelievable suicide decision of Ukraine and Germany), Plan C was a little muddled. Of course Russia was/is trying to avoid Plan G and therefore being very cautious.
Of course the US/NATO plans have also changed. Plan 1 was to place horrendous sanctions on Russia, crashing its economy, even before Russia initiated plan A. With Russia weakened the forces masses in Mariupol would retake Crimea. Russian plans A, B and C crushed this Plan. US/NATO Plan 2 was scarcely a plan- let’s send arms and everything it could think of to Ukraine, more sanctions, heavy Z for no negotiations. Plan 3, I think led by UK was Kherson and the NPP. When this was not successful they initiated Plan 4 ie the bridge, while the US decided on the pipelines (not sure if this was coordinated). In response to Russian plan E, US/NATO is still going in circles. Plan 5 may or may not emerge. winter is coming.
Posted by: watcher | Oct 20 2022 4:29 utc | 156
watcher | Oct 20 2022 2:31 utc | 135
There is indeed a poster…persistent pest…whose posts add no value, and I agree, are designed deliberately to “pave” or construct a case this blog transgresses EU and similar laws.
One comment is one thing, but a “campaign” of comments… with an ongoing change of name… (prob because banned by the bar owner)
Yep. Dangerous by design.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 20 2022 4:35 utc | 157
Anthony | Oct 19 2022 21:55 utc | 83
sippy the shot glass | Oct 19 2022 22:07 utc | 85
There is no reason not to fight a troll – even if their tactics are dumb they are infuriating because everyone is instantly aware of the purpose and the power of their nonsense ; yet life in EUUS is a constant troll, moist of which you passively accept and are unconscious of
– which is to disrupt infuriate and draw attention away from the creation of a coherent cohesive un interrupted self and forum/group which can generate inclusive debate and encourage the formation of ideas which can be expressed put into action, spread and alter outcome
The use of reason and evidence to discuss the events on hand, both the war and the larger context, is the only way to resist/escape from the propagandised ignorance which prevails in the EUUS and which forbids debate and resistance to a ruling class politics which has as it main/only intent to weaken surpress and to exploit….all of you
To realise that this propaganda is as simple as stupid as the these trolls is to find the way to fight them, and to be able to organise resistance – the instruments of gvmt power are exercised by trolls for trolls and are just as weak when faced with large scale intelligent resistance
Look around you at all those fat McEmbassies corporation offices and other sitting ducks – abandoned in plain sight
If you can not find the strength to fight off trolls, and all the other ambient trolling you undergo in every sphere of your lives, you will never be able to exercise any agency nor come to any useful thought or action – by your passivity you fight on their side, just as you do when you vote for the same dumb clucks, when passively you tolerate USEU imperialism etc etc
Posted by: Gerrard White | Oct 20 2022 4:35 utc | 158
wagelaborer | Oct 20 2022 5:54 utc | 162
Don’t other people have a scroll button?
I do, and it’s really handy.
Yep n yep.
You can even roll your eyes at the same time. Multi-task!
Lol-yep.
> Moscow Times article
Is nonsense. Especially the bit about the widow “now 2 kids, no money”.
My understanding is 300,000 rubles for a dead dad.
Brutal. But rubles are paid on decease.
Am engaging with iEarlgrey ATM. He’s doing an entertaining/ informative livestream most days.
He’s not pretending to be anything more than “an idiot” who happens to live in St Petersburg. And giving his interpretation of what he reads and hears.
Accepting that “product disclaimer”, what has to say cuts through a lot of the western msm bullshit.
He’s nudging 100k subscribers and is anticipating being deplatformed by yt at any moment.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtMGV3SHfVfiAt_w8lnmI8g
Why?
For being in St Petersburg and calling bullshit on msm.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 20 2022 4:49 utc | 159
wagelaborer | Oct 20 2022 5:54 utc | 163
Congratulations!
You’ve “won” the typepad “lotto”, with your comment now stuck at the bottom of the page.
It’s a comment worthy of being repeated, so there’s that!
Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 20 2022 4:52 utc | 160
@Ronald Portier | Oct 19 2022 22:01 utc | 84
I don’t dispute Moscow Times’ unreliability, but it’s not the only source reporting similar cases of lack of training and/or faulty/non-existent/inappropriate equipment ranging from useless and semi-destroyed radio equipment, plastic bulletproof vests (those used in paintball games) and still other frayed and looking like gnawed by mice and other absurdities (with photos available).
There are dozens of pro-Russian Telegram channels reporting similar cases regarding equipment and training (Zergulio, Open Ukraine, Russell Texas, etc.)
Are reported cases rare? Perhaps, but who can guarantee? How many lives will it cost?
So the problem doesn’t seem to me to be the messenger.
Posted by: Alex, the Medium | Oct 20 2022 4:56 utc | 161
Hmmmm. I see 10+ pieces that rightfully are owed to Ukraine.
Why are they “playing” soldiers when they should be “doing” soldiers?
https://twitter.com/JFC_Naples/status/1580455730477293568?cxt=HHwWgICj5Z-H9O4rAAAA
Why isn’t the comedian commandeering these? (Via twitter)
He was quick to zoom and demand more Aussie Bushmasters after the first 20 became shopsoiled.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 20 2022 4:58 utc | 162
Alex, the Medium | Oct 20 2022 4:56 utc | 164
Well what do you expect in a democracy but a high level of debate about what may constitute adequate soldiering and supplies?
And –what is the reason that you westies have none but withered armies ? and can not find any recruits ?
What is the difference between you post and a troll?
Posted by: Gerrard White | Oct 20 2022 5:33 utc | 163
The Russians could march to the Polish border and the trolls would claim it was a clever entrapment by Zelensky. Like the Ukrainian Ministry of Propaganda saying they were delighted with Russian missile strikes as it was depleting their stocks. The whole Ukrainian war reporting and its trolls is no different from the Knight sketch in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. “Tis but a scratch.”
Posted by: Organic | Oct 20 2022 5:49 utc | 164
Don’t other people have a scroll button?
I do, and it’s really handy.
No need for censorship of free speech, or website redesign, when you have a scroll button. Just roll on by. You can even roll your eyes at the same time. Multi-task!
The Moscow Times article sounds like someone copied the reports of Ukrainian conscripts and changed their names and hometowns to turn it into Russian conscripts. That is some lazy propaganda, imo.
I remember hearing that “only 30 bullets” complaint way back when Zelensky first started snatching unwilling Ukie men off the streets and sending them to the frontlines.
Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 20 2022 5:54 utc | 165
Apparently Russian TV is now talking about the FUKUS dirty bomb being already planted inside Nikolaev!
Well, was nice meeting ya’ll.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2022 6:14 utc | 166
@ Gerrard White | Oct 20 2022 5:33 utc | 166
Sorry. I expected an answer from someone competent, but it seems that only the usual idle ignorant are available.
But keep trying, holistic failure, keep trying…
Posted by: Alex, the Medium | Oct 20 2022 6:33 utc | 167
Alex, the Medium | Oct 20 2022 6:33 utc | 170
If you are interested in competence try trolling harder, get better spirit handlers, bone up on China, upgrade to NYT et al
If in democracy do not worry and do not pretend surpise that your so called demcracy falls so far short of the RF
Posted by: Gerrard White | Oct 20 2022 6:39 utc | 168
a good article I think, machine translated:
Dromocracy. Speed as power by Alexander Dugin 19.10.2022
Speed plays an important role in the modern world. Overall. During the SVO, we discovered that even in war — in modern war — it is one of the key factors. A lot, a lot—almost everything—depends on how quickly you can get intelligence, get it to the command of the attacking unit, make the decision to attack, and operationally change the place from which the attack was launched. ….
We also underestimated the dependence on the West in digital technology, chips and precision manufacturing. Preparing for a frontal conflict with the NATO pact and at the same time relying on technological elements developed and produced either in NATO countries or on the territory of countries dependent on the West, is not evidence of great intelligence.
But now we will talk about the speed factor, not about the western dependence. The French philosopher Paul Virilio, studying the importance of care in modern technical civilization, proposed a special term – dromocracy. From the ancient Greek dromos (speed) and kratos (power, authority). Virilio’s theory is based on the assertion that in the new conditions of civilization, it is not the one who is stronger, smarter and better equipped who wins, but the one who is faster. It is the speed that says everything. Hence the desire to somehow increase the speed of the processor and, consequently, all digital operations.
The modern world is a race for speed. And the one who proves to be faster gets the biggest prize – power. In every sense and in all dimensions – political, military, technological, economic, cultural.
At the same time, in the structure of the dromocracy, information is the most valuable. More precisely, the speed of information transmission is also a concrete expression of power.
[…]
“… Furthermore, war naturally follows, in which the aggressors present themselves as victims, and the saviors as executioners. The most important thing is to control the information. And, if all goes according to the globalist plans, the denouement comes quickly, and the neo-Nazi structures would be destroyed soon after. We saw almost the same thing in Croatia, during the breakup of Yugoslavia. The West initially helped the Croatian Nazis, neo-Ustasha – and armed them against the Serbs, and then destroyed them, so that no trace would remain. It’s just important to do everything very, very quickly. Neo-Nazism appears quickly, fulfills its purpose quickly and disappears quickly. As if it never happened… »
[…]
Dromocracy is no joke. It’s not about us taking over the West. He wants to stagger in his pride, but for that it is necessary to act like lightning. And thoughtfully. Russia no longer has the right or time to snooze and miss things.
in full https://www-geopolitika-ru.translate.goog/sr/article/dromokratija-brzina-kao-motsh?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
Posted by: SeanAU | Oct 20 2022 6:56 utc | 169
Posted by: Organic | Oct 20 2022 5:49 utc | 167
Unfortunately, the mindset you are complaining about is also prevalent in many of the faith-based pro-RF comments on this site. In the highly unlikely event that the Ukranians ever inflict a strategic defeat upon the RF, most of you would keep wittering on about it being strategic genius on the part of Putin, some sort of fabulous ruse by the Stavka, sure to lead to Russian victory.
Enough with the faith-based thinking. Use your brains instead of your biases.
Posted by: Herr Ringbone | Oct 20 2022 6:58 utc | 170
Russia have roughly 1 month in making any move in the war before having their economy destroyed,
on the 5th of december the russian price cap is going to be imposed
US says Russia oil price cap won’t harm OPEC – Reuters
Moscow has warned it will cease oil sales to nations that go along with the price cap scheme
https://swentr.site/news/565005-russia-oil-cap-opec/
Posted by: Zanon | Oct 20 2022 7:01 utc | 171
@watcher your post #159
Really appreciate your contribution here as well as the relevant replies (mainly from AB)
Provides a useful base for discussion and an overview of the planning on both sides, helpful to everyone to figure things out.
Now i have to state the following (and i am not delighted about the fact and dearly hope not to offend by saying it) :
Attacks on the Kerch bridge and on the NS pipelines were parallel (side) attacks and in no way a substitute to the plan 3 correctly identified by you.
That is to say
PLAN 3 is still in action and unfolding on the ground at this time.
If this is not a fact, please correct/disprove me.
Posted by: lahire | Oct 20 2022 7:08 utc | 172
Melaleuca | Oct 20 2022 4:49 utc | 162
Am engaging with iEarlgrey ATM. He’s doing an entertaining / informative livestream most days.He’s not pretending to be anything more than “an idiot” who happens to live in St Petersburg. And giving his interpretation of what he reads and hears.
Thanks for bringing a new (to me) source of information, a different slant on events.
This is an example why I’ve been coming to this bar every day for 5 years now: to get viewpoints I would never, immersed in the bubble of MSM, ever know about.
Posted by: Alchemist | Oct 20 2022 7:11 utc | 173
⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦🎞Chronicle of Battles in the Mykolaiv-Beryslav direction
October 15-19, 2022
▪️In the southern front, the tensest situation is in the Beryslav area. The AFU seek to break through the Russian defense in the direction of Beryslav, flanking and threatening to encircle the entire Russian grouping near Kherson.
▪️On the morning of October 15, the AFU with two battalion-tactical groups of the 60th Infantry Brigade and 17th Tank Brigade, supported by mobile groups of the 140th Special Operations Regiment, launched an attack on the Russian positions from the direction of Nova Kamyanka.
▪️In the failed offensive the enemy lost almost two dozen YPR-765 armored vehicles, BMP-2s and T-64BV tanks. The AFU 60th Infantry Brigade lost 70 people, the 140th Special Forces regiment, whose units were conducting reconnaissance combat, also suffered heavy losses.
▪️Four days later, in the early morning of October 19, the AFU launched a new attack on the Russian Armed Forces’ positions near Sukhanove and Polyanka by the 18 Mountain and 60 Infantry brigades assault groups. Later, the enemy introduced reserves — the 28th Mechanized brigade units and the 17th Brigade tank company — into the battle.
▪️Under artillery and large-caliber MLRS strikes, the enemy began to retreat. The AFU retreated to their initial positions, losing six tanks and several dozen personnel.
▪️On the entire Mykolaiv-Kryvyi Rih direction, the Russian Armed Forces are entrenched and creating several lines of defense, which makes it possible to deter attacks. But the AFU still have a large numerical superiority and is preparing for a major offensive on Kherson.
▪️Under these conditions, the authorities of Kherson region decided to organize the evacuation of residents to the left bank of Dnipro River.
https://t.me/azmilitary11/26033
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2022 7:12 utc | 174
Howdy, back from work: what’s the update? I thought the UA were heading into Kherson City (which I imagine sung by Paul McCartney). Or is it all quiet on the Ostfront? If you can tear yourself away from the trollwar, a brief summary would be appreciated.
Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 20 2022 7:14 utc | 175
I think he is right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyqY0gfuouk
Posted by: may be | Oct 20 2022 7:14 utc | 176
🇷🇺🇺🇦 According to the results of yesterday’s enemy offensive in the direction of Novaya Kamenka – Sukhanovo, which the enemy undertook with the forces of two battalions reinforced with tanks, a total of about 50 armored vehicles.
The enemy suffered losses and retreated to their original positions. As a result of the battle, more than 15 tanks and 10 armored combat vehicles were destroyed, enemy equipment, tanks, infantry fighting vehicles were captured, there are prisoners.
The loss of enemy personnel is tentatively estimated at 200 people (killed and wounded), now the enemy is trying to organize their evacuation from the battlefield. What is noteworthy, this time the attack was not with a swoop as before, but with a systematic deployment in battle formation.
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2022 7:14 utc | 177
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2022 7:12 utc | 177
That’s uncanny timing! As I posted you gave the update… we do live in strange times!
Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 20 2022 7:15 utc | 178
🇷🇺 More than 500 apartments have already been commissioned in Mariupol
People are planning to settle in there in the very near future. Residents of Mariupol, who lost their homes as a result of hostilities by Ukraine, are given orders for new apartments in houses built by military builders of the Ministry of Defense on behalf of the Government of the Russian Federation.
In November, the construction of four more five-story buildings will be completed, and in December, two more houses will be ready for occupancy
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2022 7:15 utc | 179
🇬🇧 The pontoon bridge under the Antonovsky bridge has now been completed after almost 3 months in Kherson.
Time will tell how it goes with the growing threats, including guided artillery.
The supply to the army decides how to win or lose in a battle.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/15506
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2022 7:31 utc | 180
SeanAU | Oct 20 2022 6:56 utc | 172
Once again your concerns are not only invalid you display a slavish obediance to whatever current westie techo fashion
The obsession with speed is a long time (ha !) westie obsession, unshared by most of RoW or at least those parts which have managed to remain un contaminated
It is merely foolish That an apparent usefulness in certain tech applications be taken to be a philosophy that governs society
Look at how you and the rest of you westies have criticised cried and bewailed the RF campaign in this war, as ‘slow’ : yet it is certain that this is best path to establishing lasting stability, not only by military but especially by political/economic means
Lightening quick politics, au contraire, gives rise to fiveeye imbecilities, when are those subs due in ? 2060 ? and counting, plus the frenzied flip flops the ynaks do
Surely if there is one thing you have observed from this SMO is that the RF and the Chinese and, increasingly now India the ME and Africa, do things differently from you westies
Posted by: Gerrard White | Oct 20 2022 7:32 utc | 181
A Ukrainian journalist working for the organization “Humans Virtue” offers 200 dollars per tweet to a Canadian journalist at the rate of several tweets per week! That’s several thousand dollars a month. We understand the enthusiasm of certain Western journalists for the Ukrainian cause.
The question I ask myself is where does the money come from to finance such propaganda campaigns? Who is actually funding “Humans Virtue” behind their guise as a foundation funded by anonymous private donations?
Above all, it explains why the “good side” goes around saying that anyone who deviates from the official narrative receives a paycheck from the Kremlin. They project their own mode of operation onto others.
“>https://thecountersignal.com/keean-bexte-offered-thousands-to-push-pro-ukraine-propaganda/
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/15509
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2022 7:33 utc | 182
The grandchildren of the First President of the Chechen Republic, Hero of Russia Akhmat-Khadzhi Kadyrov – Akhmat, Eli and Adam visited the line of contact, where fierce battles are currently taking place with Ukrainian nationalists. As befits Chechen soldiers, they immediately set to work. Together with dear BROTHER, the commander of the special Police Regiment named after the Hero of Russia Akhmat-Khadzhi Kadyrov, Zamid Chalaev, Akhmat, Eli and Adam made their way close to the enemy positions and provided fire cover for the advancing fighters. Also, taking the opportunity, they turned to the Chechen-speaking shaitans on the other side with a proposal to go to the front line and prove their adherence to European values in battle.
⠀
Akhmat, Eli and Adam have been actively searching for members of the Ichkerian battalions for several days as part of a delegation from the Chechen Republic, visiting the places of deployment and advanced positions of the Chechen security forces along the way. However, it appears that the expectations were not destined to come true. The grandchildren of Akhmad-Khadzhi stayed in their positions until they repulsed another Nazi counterattack.
Nevertheless, the “famous Euro-Ichkerians” continue to verbally “seize” territories from the Russian army, while being hundreds or even thousands of kilometers from the front line. Of course, the grandchildren of the First President of the Chechen Republic, Hero of Russia Akhmat-Khadzhi Kadyrov, like all of us, such behavior causes only laughter.
⠀
While the couch “mujahideen” are hiding in their holes, periodically making statements, we will continue the offensive, thereby proving our words with actions. AKHMAT-POWER! ALLAH AKBAR!
Kadyrov
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/15514
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2022 7:35 utc | 183
Watcher #135. I agree.
SeanAU #121. Hey nice tip! Thanks!
Jax – Thanks for joining, and kudos for not responding to insulting attacks with abuse. I suppose I view trolls as court jesters – they have a role to play, but it is surprising to me that so many people here respond to them.
Posted by: Tim | Oct 20 2022 7:36 utc | 184
From what I have been watching recently we are already at the global war stage. The only thing missing is the daily news reports saying so. There is no going back – the gloves are not off yet but the decisions and the mental adjustments needed have been made. This is full on world war.
Putin’s fateful speech is ready: Three future scenarios
(a month ago) 21.09.2022 by Alexander Dugin
extracts of the article machine translated
see https://www-geopolitika-ru.translate.goog/sr/article/putinov-sudbonosni-govor-je-spreman-tri-scenarija-budutshnosti?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
[…] At the moment, there are only three objective scenarios for the development of events.
We are now in a situation, both Russia and the world, which can be reduced to the following pattern. It is about Ukraine, where things have been brought to the beginning of the real world war. Like any scheme, this one simplifies reality, but at the same time makes it meaningful and elevates it to a certain structural probability.
This scheme is divided into three objective vectors of possible developments and four versions of the subjective attitude. From the very beginning, therefore, a certain asymmetry is evident, the meaning of which will be revealed as the scheme is described. […]
(1) Catastrophic scenario (for Russia). Occupation. De-imperialization. Finis Rossiae
(2) Apocalyptic scenario (for everyone). End of history. Destruction of humanity
(3) Patriotic-victory scenario (for Russia and supporters of the multipolar world). Holy war
The third scenario is the most important. And, the only savior.
The revolution in Russia is happening from above. Putin has already crossed paths with the West, and he is turning that complete and irreversible break into an ideology, a course, a strategy, and the only guideline for being. All compromises are abolished, Russia openly becomes a people’s empire with a pronounced religious and social (anti-capitalist) ethos. Liberalism and Westernism are banned. Sabotage, theft, laziness and corruption are burned with a red-hot iron, according to the law of war.
The state and the people regroup and SVO becomes a holy people’s war. To be or not to be.
Can the situation be objectively like that? Of course it can. […]
Society is ready for this. Such an attitude is shared by almost all those involved in the war in some way.
And it is clear to everyone that now, above all, mobilization and a winning ideology are needed. We have reached the end of compromises. […]
That time has come.
According to that scenario, the most important thing is to quickly end any dependence on the West – ideological, technological, psychological, economic, cultural. It was this dependence that paralyzed us at a critical moment. It turned out that the West holds the keys to many vital areas of our life – informational, technological, cultural, financial. Yes, our important asset is natural resources, but the ideology, technology and methodology are western. Resource hardware is important. But ideological and technological software is still more important.
The goal of the people’s revolution from above is to dismantle the inner West as soon as possible – both liberalism as its backbone and all other forms behind which the West hides.
Is not easy to. But if not, we will have two previous scenarios.
(4) The status quo as an empty and meaningless illusion
There is only one direction left, as a subjective attitude, but it does not rely on any objective reality – because there is simply no such reality.
This is the mental state of the ‘status quo’ or ‘collective Rublyovka’ party. This category includes senior government officials and businessmen, who for unknown reasons still believe that the world before February 24, 2022, and the world after February 24, 2022, are basically the same. Nothing can convince them otherwise – neither reports from the front, nor terrorist attacks in the background, nor ongoing tectonic changes in the world order. As before, they fight for their positions, promote their protégés in power, avoid competition, try to preserve what they have – more precisely, they live as if nothing happened and reactively adapt to the situation. […]
Three scenarios are possible. The fourth is not. It exists only as a tribute to inertia, that is, it exists in consciousness, but does not exist. […]
To be or not to be cancels the very possibility of flickering between – “either it is, or it is not”, “Russia is either sovereign, or it is part of the West”.
If Russia exists, then it is a completely different Russia. People’s and initiated in the fight – on all levels – spiritual, ideological, technical, economic, frontal – not for life, but for death, with the absolute enemy. Or it won’t exist – if it was dismembered, occupied and made a colony by NATO and Ukrainian Nazis, a colony as a colony dismembered and occupied by NATO and Ukrainian Nazis or if it exists as a post-apocalyptic desert (see the first and second scenario).
There are only three objective scenarios for the development of events and only those who understand this at the level of the subject and who choose one of the three scenarios, i.e. truly live and make responsible decisions for their destiny, for the destiny of the country, people and humanity, can be taken into account . Only they mean something in the scale of history.
The party of traitors simply does not exist anymore, because the time of concessions and compromises has passed, so this is a phantom pain. Either we or they will us. That is all. [end]
Posted by: SeanAU | Oct 20 2022 7:38 utc | 185
#YURI Civilians’ evacuation started from the right bank of Dnieper to make the Russian logistic easier and allow for the more aggressive actions against the enemy without putting the civilians in danger. Some 50-60 thousand people are to be evacuated. The start of the Ukrainian general offensive is expected next week. Ukrainian recon by combat attempts in Kherson oblast, 2 BTG strong, reinforced by tanks, dispersed by the Russian artillery. Heavy enemy losses.
In the north, near Kupyansk the Russians develop their tactical counter-offensive, attacking today the railway station of Dvurechnoye , in apparent intent to restore their defense line on Oskol river there. Near Bakhmut, the Wagner men advamce, but so far they could not take the enemy stronghold in Opytnoye, that hinders further offensive. Near Pervomayskoye and Maryinka, offensive actions of the Russian troops continue.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/15520
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2022 7:46 utc | 186
⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ #Chronicle of the Special Military Operation for 19 Oct 2022⚡️
At noon, the Russian Forces again struck critical infrastructure facilities in #Ukraine. Several targets were hit, including Ladyzhinskaya TPP in #Vinnitsa and Burshtynskaya TPP in the Ivano-Frankovsk region.
Due to the systematic fire, the Ukrainian powery system is losing resilience. Authorities have planned a temporary power outage across the country on 20 October.
#RussianFederation Territories:
▪️ During the day, Ukrainian militants shelled #Belgorod, shells fell on one of the infrastructure facilities and caused no serious damage. Also AFU hit the town of #Shebekino in #Belgorod region. Two civilians were seriously wounded.
#Starobelsk Direction (MAP):
▪️ In the #Kupyansk area, the AFU with the forces of the 14th Mechanized Brigade and the 233rd Battalion of the 128th Territorial Defence Brigade are trying to gain a foothold in #Kislovka. The enemy’s Territorial Defense units have suffered significant losses.
▪️ The Ukrainian command expects an active offensive by the Russian Forces on the #Sinovka – #Zagoruykovka line from the direction of #Gorobyevka. Engineers of the 14th Mechanized Brigade of the AFU have mined the approaches to the settlements, and several tanks have been sent to #Sinkovka.
▪️ In the #Lyman – #Svatovo Sector the AFU still continue to gather resources for an offensive on #Svatovo and #Kremennaya.
▪️ A mobile sabotage group is operating on the #Terny – #Nevskoye line to “probe” the Russian defences. Its main task is to direct artillery and MLRS at Russian facilities in the rear area.
▪️ The AFU attempt to cross the #Zherebets River near #Makeevka in small groups. Soldiers of the 3rd Motorized Rifle Division of the Russian Forces foiled all enemy attempts to establish a bridgehead and also shot down an Ukrainian attack helicopter.
#Soledar Direction (MAP):
▪️ Formations of the 54th AFU Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade attempted to retake the territory of an asphalt plant. Wagner PMC fighters repulsed the attack and Ukrainian troops suffered heavy losses.
▪️ Due to the threat of a defensive breakthrough by Wagner PMC assault troops, the enemy command moved units of the 53rd Mechanized Brigade into the city and to the south of #Andreevka.
▪️ AFU units continue to arrive in Chasov Yar. By 25 October, the Ukrainian command plans to deploy a grouping of around 10,000 troops in that direction.
#Lugansk Region:
▪️ Ukrainian militants have launched a HIMARS MLRS strike on #Popasna.
#Donetsk Direction:
▪️ There are no significant changes in the front line near #Donetsk. DPR troops are fighting near #Donetsk airport, defeating enemy SRGs trying to penetrate advanced Russian positions.
▪️ Ukrainian militants again shelled #Donetsk, #Yasynuvata, #Makeevka, #Yelenovka and other settlements in the #Donetsk agglomeration.
#Zaporozhye Direction:
▪️ In the early hours of the morning, Ukrainian HIMARS missiles attacked the city administration building of #Energodar.
#Nikolaev – #Berislav Direction on Southern Front (MAP):
▪️ In the #Berislav section, AFU forces with assault groups of 128th Mountain Assault Brigade, 60th Infantry Brigade, 28th Mechanized Brigade and 17th Tank Brigade launched an offensive on the Russian positions near #Sukhanovo and #Polyanka.
▪️ Russian Forces repulsed the attack, the Ukrainian formations lost more than 10 pieces of equipment. Russian servicemen captured a group of Ukrainian fighters and seized several trophy armoured vehicles.
▪️ In the Posad-Pokrovskoye sector, Russian Airborne Troops repulsed an attempted breakthrough by an AFU armoured group near #Pravdino and destroyed two enemy BMPs with anti-tank guided missiles.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/15522
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2022 7:47 utc | 187
💥💥𝗪𝗲𝗹𝗰𝗼𝗺𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗨𝗸𝗿𝗮𝗶𝗻𝗲🇺🇦🇺🇦
⚡The energy system of Ukraine can be completely disabled – Zelensky
⚡On Thursday, In the Sumy region they will turn off water, street lighting, stop electric transport, the authorities report.
⚡in Kyiv, judging by the message of DTEK, rolling blackouts have already begun at 23:24, Monday.They promise that there will be no electricity for a maximum of 4 hours, but it can be turned off several times a day.
⚡Traffic lights will be turned off on the streets of Nikolaev in order to save electricity, and the number of electric vehicles on the streets will also be reduced by 60%
⚡In Odessa, outdoor lighting of shops and advertising will be turned off & street lighting will be reduced on Tuesday, .It is also planned to cut off electricity from enterprises
⚡In Kharkov region, there will be another power outage and electricity to industries & enterprises will be cut off.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/15530
Traffic lights will be turned off on the streets of the Ukrainian city of Nikolaev in order to save electricity, and the number of electric vehicles on the streets will also be reduced by 60%, Mayor Alexander Senkevich said.
Earlier, the office of the President of Ukraine reported that from October 20, rolling blackouts will be carried out throughout the country.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/15526
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2022 7:50 utc | 188
Moscow Times?
CM of Berlin @ 82
It is same as the western MSM rags, BBC, CNN Wapo, NYT etc. Russia is democratic, so it allows such rags to be published. The “democratic” west blocks. By the way, no one reads Moscow Times in Russian, so that rag is only meant for those who live in the unfriendly countries.
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 20 2022 7:51 utc | 189
Azerbaijan secretly provides its fighters to the Armed Forces of Ukraine
Information has appeared on Ukrainian telegram channels that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are using fourth-generation multirole fighters MiG-29 of the Azerbaijani Air Force. In particular, they were involved during the counteroffensive of Ukraine in the Kherson direction. It is reported that the units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine managed to occupy several settlements thanks to the work of Azerbaijani MiGs. The very case when success on the ground is achieved in the air.
It is known that these aircraft were being repaired at the Lvov Aviation Plant, after which they were supposed to return back to Azerbaijan. However, Ukraine, instead of returning them in accordance with the concluded agreement, began to use them against the RF Armed Forces.
Only the Azerbaijani authorities can clarify this situation and confirm either the fact of their return or being under repair. Do not forget that the CSTO is one of the guarantors of international security in the post-Soviet space.
Today Ukraine uses Azerbaijani MiG-29s in Kherson, but what can we expect from them tomorrow?
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/15544
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2022 7:52 utc | 190
Energy Saving Day in Ukraine
What restrictions have been introduced in the regions:
📍Kiev — buses have taken over the routes instead of trolleybuses; schedules of rolling blackouts in the city and region have already appeared, which will be introduced if Ukrenergo needs to balance the power system. The graph in the photo;
📍Sumy — water supply will be turned off, electric transport and street lighting will stop working;
📍 Sumy — will limit the use of electric vehicles by 50%;
📍 Volyn — restriction of electricity consumption for industrial consumers is introduced;
📍 Ternopil — today the entire city electric transport will not enter the routes;
📍 Dnipro — “total energy saving mode”;
📍 Kharkiv — the metro increases the interval of train movement;
Kirovograd region — lighting will not work on the streets of all settlements. Also trolleybuses may not go on routes;
📍 Poltava — Energy consumption will be reduced by 50%. After lunch, there will be only buses on the routes;
📍Nykolayev — 60% of trolleybuses will not go on the line tomorrow, traffic lights will also not work;
📍 Lviv — there were blackouts at night. There will be a shutdown of industrial consumers during the day.
https://t.me/azmilitary11/26048
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2022 7:54 utc | 191
and given important things come in threes:
On the brink of World War III
16.09.2022 by Alexander Dugin
extracts machine translation
We are on the brink of World War III, which the West is pushing compulsively. And this is no longer a fear or an expectation, it is a fact. Russia is at war with the collective West, with the NATO pact and its allies (although not with all of them: Turkey and Greece have their own position, and some European countries, above all France and Italy, but not only them, do not want to be active participants war with Russia). However, the danger of the Third World War is getting closer.
The OSU counterattack in the Kharkiv region is a direct Western attack on Russia. Everyone knows that this offensive was organized, prepared and equipped by the military command of the United States and NATO and that it took place under their direct supervision. It is not only about the use of military equipment of the NATO pact, but also about the direct involvement of Western aviation intelligence services, mercenaries and instructors. In the eyes of the West, this is the beginning of ‘our end’. Once we have shown weakness in the defense of the territories under our control in Kharkiv Oblast, we can be defeated. This is no small success of the Kiev counter-offensive, but the first tangible success of Drang nach Osten NATO forces.
That is why it is necessary to coldly admit that the West has declared war on us and is already waging it. We did not choose this war, we did not want it. Nor did we want a war with Nazi Germany in 1941, and for a long time we refused to believe that there would be one – until the very beginning. But in the current situation, when a de facto war is being waged against us, it is not of crucial importance. The only thing that is important now is that we win that war, defending Russia’s right to exist.
That is why it is necessary to coldly admit that the West has declared war on us and is already waging it. We did not choose this war, we did not want it. Nor did we want a war with Nazi Germany in 1941, and for a long time we refused to believe that there would be one – until the very beginning. But in the current situation, when a de facto war is being waged against us, it is not of crucial importance. The only thing that is important now is that we win that war, defending Russia’s right to exist. […]
You must not wait for the enemy of the world to destroy your home, kill your husband, son or daughter… At some point it will be too late. God forbid we live to see that moment.
The enemy’s offensive in the Kharkiv region is exactly that: the beginning of the real war of the West against us.
The West shows its intention to start a war of destruction against us – the Third World War. We must muster all our deepest national potential to repel this attack. By all means: opinion, military force, economy, culture, art, internal mobilization of all state structures and each of us.
https://www-geopolitika-ru.translate.goog/sr/article/na-ivici-tretsheg-svetskog-rata?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
Posted by: SeanAU | Oct 20 2022 7:55 utc | 192
Zato mercenaries make up a lot of “UAF” now.
In Soledar spotted foreign mercenaries of African American origin. In Artyomovsk, combat-ready units already almost entirely consist of mercenaries and servicemen of the regular army of Poland.
-Levi, TG
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2022 8:03 utc | 193
Kherson 22 hours ago, https://youtu.be/jWRx6jDuVJw
Hopefully, Konstantin would post a new video today.
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 20 2022 8:08 utc | 194
Patroklos #178
“If you can tear yourself away from the trollwar, a brief summary would be appreciated.”
Russia- 1
Ukraine- nil ie 0 ie zero
Dead- many ukies
Drones- bonanza time
NATO- ridiculous but still sitting this one out 😉
How was the office?
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 20 2022 8:36 utc | 195
A slightly offside take on the Ukie (soon to be larger) war.
Why are so many Governments and all the MSM, totally supportive of and getting further militarily involved in this campaign? Surely NOT because they actually believe in the sanctity of Zelensky nor the regular propaganda of “Putin/Russia bad”, but rather that they need something FROM the War?
That something I think, is martial “rule” to be installed in the EU and US. Under Martial “rule”, dissent becomes criminal, rather than just annoying, People are constrained and can be locked up and treated as enemies of the state. In a similar fashion to the Democrats wanted to treat the Republicans in the US, but this time on an International scale. ie. Fascism, or some derivative of it, whereby ALL efforts are put to gaining supremacy for the chosen few. (I am NOT diverting into a racist theme, as the “few” in my book include older money and influence, aristocracies and Oligarchs of whatever faith).
Basically, the Financial state of the capitalist world is irrecuperable. It can no longer function, even if Russian, Chinese and African assets are stolen to support it. The total amount of derivatives exceeds the total amount of collateral available in the world. Someone MUST lose if the edifice collapses. Debts, both personal and Governmental can no longer be paid (obviously), but neither can the interest necessary. The working class can no longer be squeezed enough to cover the debacle.
So what is inevitable is unrest fueled by starvation and misery. This could be over a longish time scale of several years.
In preparation, it is “necessary” (could be considered necessary) that the “few” have all the means to tame the maddened crowds. The Ukraine “war” is to be able to “discipline” their own populations, with their consent! (Covid was a starting block, a war situation will be the next step).
***
There is the problem of Nukes; IF the NS1 and 2 were taken out by a small non-radiation emitting nuke (PavewayIV) and dropped from a US plane (Another poster earlier “Monkey….”? sorry, forgot name and too lzy to look it up), then nukes have already been used. But they SHOULD NOT be allowed to become a general free-for-all which includes US territory. How the US, UK and NATO plan to do this and avoid armagheddon I have no idea.
Posted by: Stonebird | Oct 20 2022 8:38 utc | 196
The enemy’s offensive in the Kharkiv region is exactly that: the beginning of the real war of the West against us.
@Posted by: SeanAU | Oct 20 2022 7:55 utc | 195
Dugin is wrong, real war began with Maidan (started earlier but 2014 was a major success for nato, while Putin was sleeping). 8 years and 8 months later they’re still doing nothing about it but complaining the “enemy” doesn’t surrender to cardboard generals. Today they say enemy troops are made from new recruits, unprepared, badly equipped, but tomorrow they’re the ones retreating, not the enemy. Are they all actors in a movie? Or are they really that stupid?
Posted by: rk | Oct 20 2022 8:56 utc | 197
Misc snippets via TG
2hrs ago – On the border with the Republic of Belarus, another column of Polish armored personnel carriers “Rosomak” was recorded.
Minsk has repeatedly reported on the build-up of NATO forces in the adjacent territory and the preparation of terrorist attacks by foreign special services in the Republic of Belarus.
-new_militarycolumnist @Slavyangrad
At these moments, the Russian aviation component of the regional grouping of troops (forces) is carrying out scheduled patrolling of the air borders of the Union State — the Ministry of Defense of Belarus
Germany, Sweden and Denmark are closely cooperating on the investigation of sabotage on the “Nord Streams” – This was stated by Scholz during a speech in the Bundestag.
“We are closely coordinating our actions in the investigation of sabotage on both Nord Streams,” he said.
Most of the employees of the Kazakh Embassy in Kiev have been evacuated to Warsaw, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Kazakhstan reports
The Swiss President arrived in Ukraine to get an idea of the situation in the country and discuss new assistance to Kiev
Spain is ready to train 400 Ukrainian fighters in support of Kiev – El Pais
The EU member states plan to train about 15,000 Ukrainian servicemen as part of the EU training mission in mid-November.
The Indian government is rapidly converting its foreign exchange reserves from dollars to gold and other precious metals. 200 tons of gold are going to be purchased in the UAE at a discount.
Reinforcements from among the Russian mobilized have arrived on the territory of the DPR
Colombian president Petro accused US of “ruining” world economies – “US authorities,when making certain decisions,sometimes do not think about the consequences.”
“The economy of Latin American states is devastated today,and Latin America has been plundered”
British Defense Minister Ben Wallace will make a statement in Parliament on Ukraine on Thursday, the House of Commons reports – Previously 2 days ago Ben Wallace was on emergency trip to US amid Ukraine “security concerns” (unable to speak over comms)
The protocols on the accession of Sweden and Finland to NATO have been ratified by 28 of the 30 members of the alliance, the Swedish prime minister said at a meeting with Stoltenberg (needs 100% agreement)
Iran at a meeting of the UN Security Council categorically rejected accusations against it of supplying drones to the Russian Federation,the Iran’s permanent representative to the UN
The President of Madagascar fired the Minister of Foreign Affairs for voting at the UN on a resolution condemning Russia.
German President Steinmeier canceled his visit to Kiev, scheduled for Thursday, for security reasons – German media
Indian Foreign Ministry urged its citizens to leave Ukraine immediately
Posted by: SeanAU | Oct 20 2022 8:58 utc | 198
THE BROADCAST OF A JOURNALIST FROM FRANCE WAS CUT OFF WHEN SHE STARTED TALKING ABOUT THE CRIMES OF UKRAINE⚡️
BFMTV journalists wanted to know why the Russians were evacuating civilians from Kherson. Correspondent Anne-Laure Banse begins to explain that: “the city is currently regularly subjected to Ukrainian strikes that target infrastructure facilities such as hospitals.”
We will not find out what other infrastructure is the target of the Ukrainian army, communication was rudely interrupted. A coincidence? Or is reality bothering BFMTV executives?
https://t.me/azmilitary11/26070
Video embedded in Tweet
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2022 9:16 utc | 199
@203 SeanAU It all rather reminds me of the recent youtube blog by alex christoforou where he asked some (IMHO) sane questions:
Saudi Arabia is now expressing interest in joining BRICS. Would they do that if the West was winning this war?
Saudi Arabia AND Qatar are essentially showing the finger to Washington over oil production. Would they do that if the West was winning this war?
Non-aligned countries are now urgently removing their embassy staff and citizens from Ukraine. Would they do that if the West was winning this war?
There are the stories that you see everywhere in the MSM, and that story is that Russia is losing badly, and Ukraine is just one more big offensive away from victory.
And then there are these other stories, tangential perhaps, but they don’t sit with the narrative that a western-backed vassal state is on the verge of a resounding victory over the Russian Federation.
If fact those other stories are inexplicable IF we accept the western narrative.
Yet they are, indisputably, stories that are true. They are happening, in flat-out contradiction to the established narrative.
How odd, heh?
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 20 2022 9:21 utc | 200