in case you missed it - grieved left a good link on a previous thread - from yesterday...

The Second Day of Enlightenment: How Vladimir Putin Saves the Ukrainian People…

Posted by: james | Oct 13 2022 15:00 utc | 1

As the weather trends colder, the Ukrainian conflict will become more poignantly real to both Ukraine and the West.

For Ukraine, the leaves will fall exposing military positions in wooded areas. With Russia's many more and better drones, this exposure will make being a member of the AFU on the front lines more dangerous. The cooler temperatures do not bring in more rain into Ukraine. But, they do slow the evaporation of moisture from the ground. So, moving heavy equipment through the mud becomes more difficult. Perhaps this is one of the more important reasons for Ukraine to have scheduled offensives last month before the Autumn rains caused so much mud.

The colder weather is going to start seriously impacting both industry and normal civilian life. With greatly reduced gas or no gas coming in from Russia, the coming European weather is going to remind just about everyone in Europe there are freezing consequences for embracing Ukraine and its leadership.

A lot of fallout from the colder weather is coming to the West. Perhaps a lot of radioactive fallout is also coming.

Posted by: young | Oct 13 2022 15:18 utc | 2

Between the last two articles and the numerous comments - There is nothing much new to say by me.

So I’ll post something a little old. From 2018!

“On September 27, 2018, Yale's Program in Russian, East European and Eurasian Studies, and the Poynter Fellowship for Journalism hosted Vladimir Pozner, the acclaimed Russian-American journalist and broadcaster. Pozner spoke on the impact of US foreign policy towards Russia after the Soviet Union has been disbanded, and shared his opinions on a range of issues raised by the audience, from the alleged Russian interference in the 2016 US presidential elections, to Skripal poisoning, to the state of independent media in Russia and the US.”
https://youtu.be/8X7Ng75e5gQ

A fascinating couple of hours that ends up speaking directly to the Ukraine master plan.
Curiously flagged by questioners who appeared to be laying out the contours of where we are now. Who were they?
Also a great take down of the Skripal bs ‘poisoning’ - the guy knows his stuff.

Anyway , Putin was trying to play ball until 2008 when he drew the first redline around the Unipolar World directly to their faces.

Ukraine has been the grand design for the ancient imperialists running for at least half a millennium to conquer the World and keep it enslaved through the control of the concocted Magic Money and the lie of Taxation to ‘pay’ for spending of created ‘Nation States’.

The movement to the nextgen and new ‘reserve currency’ was always on the cards - it’s the only way the Ancients can walk away from the husk of whatever Empire they have built to remain in Power. And transfer their Money into real Wealth to rinse and repeat with the next Reserve Currency.
They will of course be placing their People into the heart of the rising MWO, planning to subvert from inside over the next two generations and taking control of the new financial instruments.

They really hate these who have resisted their invitation to join their Club and enslave their peoples and resources to that great ancient enterprise. That is why we are born with the lie of the ‘other’ humans and civilisation; how else would we go and die with our boots on the grounds thousands of miles away without the great lie of - they are attacking us and we must kill them ! They really want a long term frontline to cause the bottleneck in the EurAsia/Africa BRI and set up their toll booth there - back to the past of controlling the Trade route - a Goose that laid all their golden eggs ever since.

Have a good day bf’s

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 13 2022 15:18 utc | 3

Donegroanin #3

Excellent video, thanks.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Oct 13 2022 15:46 utc | 4

So apparently, NATO is now talking about replacing all of Ukraine's equipment with NATO 'compatible' equipment.

At some point, the RF is going to have to publicly acknowledge what I'm sure they have known for a long time, that Ukraine is a NATO country with the only exception being that it does not have the official title.

Is this the pathetic way in which the US thinks it is going to avoid direct conflict? (Rhetorical).

This is not politically sustainable, there is some gas left in the tank, but not much.

How long is it before the Ukrainians attempt to blow up another bridge, or down an airliner (which they've done before), or whatever incendiary, nefarious act I'm sure is only days away?

Do the cretins in the White House really believe they can keep doing this and then scurry away claiming that 'we are not involved, Ukraine is not a NATO country'?

I am genuinely surprised at the rather impressive level of restraint we have seen from the RF so far, but I suspect events such as the installation of Surovikin, should serve as a very clear warning that the restraint has limits and it is probably not a good idea to press them!

Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Oct 13 2022 15:47 utc | 5

Great talk between Napolitano and Mcgregor:

https://youtu.be/7Zk8_TWszFQ

Make sure to watch Mcgregors reaction when asked if Lloyd Austin is making decisions on Ukraine

Is it just me or is Lloyf Austin a joke of a cartoon character?

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 13 2022 15:51 utc | 6

⚡️ Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine (October 13, 2022)

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation.

💥 2 enemy company tactical groups attempted to attack Orlyanka and Kotlyarovka (Kharkov region) at Kupyansk direction.

◽️ Russian forces have repelled all the attacks.

◽️ The enemy has lost over 50 personnel, 3 tanks, 4 infantry combat vehicles and 7 motor vehicles.

💥 Up to 2 battalion tactical group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) made another attempt to capture Stelmakhovka and Rozovka (Lugansk People's Republic) at Krasny Liman direction.

💥 Attacks launched by Russian artillery and army aviation have forced the enemy to scatter and to withdraw its forces.

◽️ The attacks have resulted in the elimination of 2 tanks, 5 infantry combat vehicles, 2 pickups and about 60 Ukrainian personnel.

💥 Up to 2 battalion tactical groups of the AFU were conducting an offensive towards Pyatikhatki, Kostromka, Bezvodnoye and Pravdino (Kherson region) at Nikolayev-Krivoy Rog direction.

◽️ All the attacks of the AFU have been repelled by successful action of Russian forces.

◽️ Over 110 Ukrainian personnel, 21 armoured combat vehicles and 12 special motor vehicles have been eliminated.

💥 Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery have neutralised 4 AFU command posts, 52 artillery units at their firing positions, 164 manpower and military equipment concentration areas.

◽️ 5 missile, artillery armament and munitions depots have been destroyed near Vasyukovka (Donetsk People's Republic), Novoaleksandrovka, Gulyaypole, Novopavlovka (Zaporozhye region) and Solonchaki (Nikolayev region).

💥 Fighter aviation of Russian Aerospace Forces has shot down 1 MiG-29 of Ukrainian Air Force near Chervony Zaporozhets (Dnepropetrovsk region).

💥 Russian air defence facilities have shot down 1 Su-27 airplane of Ukrainian Air Force near Porskalevka (Poltava region).

◽️ Moreover, 12 unmanned aerial vehicles have been destroyed near Novoluganskoye, Staromlinovka, Novogrigorovka, Ivanovka (Donetsk People's Republic), Vladimirovka (Lugansk People's Republic), Tavriyskoye, Kiselyovka, Tomarino and Chaykino (Kherson region).

◽️ In addition, 16 projectiles launched by U.S.-manufactured HIMARS and Ukrainian Olkha MLRS have been intercepted near Troitskoye (Lugansk People's Republic), Chernobayevka, Korsunka, Novoraysk, Kakhovka, Antonovka, Novaya Kakhovka (Kherson region).

◽️ 10 U.S.-manufactured HARM anti-radar missiles have been shot down near Guselskoye (Donetsk People's Republic) and Novaya Kakhovka (Kherson region).

📊 In total, 321 airplanes and 161 helicopters, 2,211 unmanned aerial vehicles, 380 air defence missile systems, 5,720 tanks and other armoured combat vehicles, 868 combat vehicles equipped with MLRS, 3,467 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 6,529 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed during the special military operation.

Posted by: Summary | Oct 13 2022 15:57 utc | 7

I tell my friends in the US, that if a Ukrainian terrorist blows a civilian aircraft out of the skies over Russia, then no sane American should ever get on a US civilian airliner, ever again. Ukrainian air terrorism is not if but when. The Western politicians and their operatives are insane.

Posted by: Leroy | Oct 13 2022 16:00 utc | 8

@ Bob Jenkins | Oct 13 2022 15:47 utc | 5

that is true bob... mh17 is still ringing loudly in my ears... the dutch servants made sure to bury that as best they could...

Posted by: james | Oct 13 2022 16:11 utc | 9

Stoltenberg just promised to wipe out the russian conventional forces in case of nuclear escalation. Thats pretty confident.

Posted by: Fnord73 | Oct 13 2022 16:11 utc | 10

"Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov's answer to a question from the Moscow. Kremlin. Putin programme, Astana, October 13, 2022":

"Question: US President Joe Biden has publicly stated that he does not want negotiations with Russian President Vladimir Putin. How seriously will this complicate the already tense international situation?

"Sergey Lavrov: Basically, this shouldn’t complicate things in any way, because the situation, primarily through US efforts, has reached a point where it can't get any worse, I think. All this talk about wanting or not wanting to meet with us is Westerners trying to convince themselves. We aren’t forcing ourselves on anyone and we have said so many times.

"We have not refused a single serious proposal to meet. It’s just that no one is proposing any reasonable initiatives."

Big gathering of allied nations in Astana which is hosting the 6th Conference on Interaction and Confidence-Building Measures in Asia (CICA). Escobar reports on it at his VK space:

The roll-call is an Eurasian beauty - including Russia and Belarus (EAEU), West Asia (Azerbaijan, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Qatar, Palestine) and Central Asia (Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan).

Crucial: Kazakh President Tokayev revealed they adopted a declaration to turn the forum into AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION.

So CICA will soon be working together side-by-side with the SCO, the EAEU and certainly BRICS+.

Putin, predictably, was the star of the show.

He called for "compensation for the damage caused to the Afghans during the years of occupation” (we all know the Empire of Plunder will refuse it). He called for a key role by the SCO to develop Afghanistan.

He stated that Asia, "where new centers of power are growing stronger, plays a big role in the transition to a multipolar world order”

He warned "there is a real threat of famine and large-scale shocks against the backdrop of volatility in energy and food prices in the world.”

He called for the end of a financial system that benefits the “Golden billion” - who "live at the expense of others” (and there’s nothing “golden” about the billion: at best that applies to 10 million.)

And he stressed that Russia is doing everything to “form a system of equal and indivisible security”. Exactly what drives the Empire nuts.

Note that Putin is supported by ALL the members of CICA.

Tha last sentence is proven valid by the short video Pepe provided showing Putin greeting the gathered heads of state. This conference builds on the just completed series of CIS conferences.

Further discussion on the CICA will be on the open thread, including Putin's statement and the joint documents arrived at.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 13 2022 16:13 utc | 11

@ Fnord73 | Oct 13 2022 16:11 utc | 10

funny how real cowards express such confidence..

Posted by: james | Oct 13 2022 16:16 utc | 12

Ucrania gana si no pierde. Si rusia quiere ganar tiene que desmantelar por completo Ucrania.

Posted by: vicente | Oct 13 2022 16:21 utc | 13

@ DunGroanin | Oct 13 2022 15:18 utc | 3

listening to that video now... its good... i hadn't seen it before.. thank you for sharing all your thoughts here at moa..

Posted by: james | Oct 13 2022 16:22 utc | 14

Young@2

In a matter of just a few weeks, likely mid-November, Colonel Mud will give way to General Winter. Russia's most consistently successful general makes his moves as the ground becomes frozen, perhaps even before the blizzards reign.

With 360,000 new troops all re-trained and chomping at the bit and with Ukie forces tattered, battered, bewildered and bedizened; the movements will be sudden and shocking.

The SMO is accomplished. Russia's massive missile retaliation versus the MI6 assault on the Kerch to Crimea bridge severiously degraded Ukraine's surplus electrical generation and at the same time did the same to their re-supply routes to their Eastern Front.

All forward movement by Ukie forces have ground to a near complete halt. The resistance their advances have encountered is in part due to the stiffening of Russian lines by fresh troops.

Eye of the hurricane is in itself a quiet zone. The oncoming storm is gathering strength.

The Puppet Regime in Kiev has to be beside itself now as the West has just about cleaned its cupboards bare and has precious little to offer any more, even armaments as simple as 155MM howitzer ammo. A few weeks ago, the Pukes were begging for winter clothing and supplies from their Western masters. Haven't heard any resolution of that plea.

Imagine scenes of entire battalions of Kievan troops, shivering and shaking, surrendering en masse to white-clad and fur-hatted Russian professionals. More likely than not they will be given food and warm shelter.

Many of these now fortunate conscripts may become part of the national guard forces for a newly established NovoUkrania government.

So be it.

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 13 2022 16:25 utc | 15

The fact that some people refer to the unquestionably vapid stupidity that pours forth from stick insect prevaricators such as GarbageBerg, and subsequently choose to align with them, doesn't say anything good about the aforementioned people.

Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Oct 13 2022 16:28 utc | 16

I'm quite sure Belarus and Russia will enter from Belarus to cut the border crossings of weapons from Poland, this will collapse the Ukraina war efforts, a large offensive at the west Bank of Dnieper and when that reaches the forces around Lyvov, an offensive from Belgorod and, finally the Odessa storming.

Posted by: gimmeabreak | Oct 13 2022 16:32 utc | 17

Posted by: vicente | Oct 13 2022 16:21 utc | 13

Ucrania gana si no pierde.

What does Ukraine win? Kherson, Zaporozhye, Donetsk?

The right to join NATO ?

Reparations from Russia?

Ukraine may survive, but that's a long way from "winning".

In the meantime, Russia gets away with a large chunk of Ukraine.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 13 2022 16:33 utc | 18

@Fnord73 10

What Stoltenberg didn't mention was the corollary that the sequelae would eliminate most extant species, plant and animal, on earth, and that there is no reason to imagine that humans might avoid extinction along with everything else.

That is what "mutually assured destruction" means.

The difference between Russia and NATO being that Russia does not need to deploy WMDs to eliminate NATOs forces. Europe does not have the strategic depth to withstand a determined Russian attack and the dirty secret underlying NATO is that the USA has, since the 1950s, planned to respond to a Russian advance on Europe by bombing Europe with nuclear devices to prevent Russia from capturing Europe's industrial base to use against the US.

Posted by: Hermit | Oct 13 2022 16:42 utc | 19

Borel also promised "annihilation" of Russian army today. And said something in the idea that EU is a garden and the rest of the world is a jungle. Cocaine is serious stuff.
And on topic, has anyone seen the Russian army recently? Only Wagner seems to sing these weeks

Posted by: rk | Oct 13 2022 16:47 utc | 20

Bob Jenkins@5

In a matter of some 26 days, the U$$A will sport its biennial Midterm elections.

With gasoline prices rising again and food costs skyrocketing, even many of the media-mesmerized morons are smelling a skunk. American public opinion is currently at the mid-simmering point...two stages short of a full boil.

So the string-pullers behind the Neocon dominated administration of His $enility are on the verge of pulling their hair out by the roots. Plans and schemes are being evaluated and re-considered. Time is running short. Many of their false-flag routines are by now understood (at least tacitly) by the majority of Americans.

So what to do? It has long been my surmise that they may resort to a stratagem of absolute madness, such as a false-flag nuclear devastation of a mid-sized American city, one preferably not astride major east-west or north-south Interstate and rail corridors. Most probably, such a Hail Mary desperation move would occur in the Deep South or the near South, due to the easily agitated nature of majorities in those sections of the country. Lots of Southern Badtists and Holy Rollers, dontcha know.

They are counting of mobs yelling "USA!!!USA!!!USA!!!".

The following media blitz would be well scripted beforehand, so that the broadcast stenographers can read their cues with the best possible emotional and outrage content, the primary qualification for boobtoob celebrity presenters.

The highly paid media whores will be followed by serious-faced interviewers getting the latest twists and turns from retired generals and admirals; outraged "man/woman in the streets" (carefully prepped crisis-actors) and a number of the less self-destructive Pro$ticians standing on the steps of Urination's Capitol.

Will a majority of now emotionally engaged voters buy into the "war effort" and rescue the Democrat party's candy-dates, thus preventing investigations by a Republican dominated Congre$$? We should get our answers in less than a full month of days.

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 13 2022 16:48 utc | 21

Apparently RF's recent advance toward Liman assuaged troll concerns, given this thread's muted commentary. A couple of questions:

Does anyone know of a backup link for https://t.me/sputnik ?

Does anyone know of a archived copy of the CBS video referenced here:

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/08/ukraine-a-frontline-report-vanishing-foreign-weapons.html

Posted by: ? | Oct 13 2022 16:56 utc | 22

LOL Belgorod attacked again, this time a factory:

The Armed Forces of Ukraine hit the village of Oktyabrsky, Belgorod Region. According to preliminary information, the projectile hit in the area of ​​​​the sugar factory, almost in the center of the settlement.

Posted by: Zanon | Oct 13 2022 16:58 utc | 23

@ 21 (aristodemos)

They are just crazy enough to try something like that.

The question is, who are they going to blame?

There is no way they will pin it on the RF, as the logical conclusion there (amid the mobs yelling "USA!!USA!!USA!!) is an all out Nuclear exchange.

Obviously, we could postulate all day, but as Niels Bohr said, “Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future!”

Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Oct 13 2022 17:00 utc | 24

Arch Bungle makes a good point, what does Ukraine win? Maybe more importantly, how does Ukraine win. Based on public statements Ukraine will need to evict all Russian troops from the 1991 borders of Ukraine. This requires conquering something like 120,000 km2 and Crimea. That's a very, very large task. Of course we do not have the internal plans (if they exist) for this, but we could reasonably ask from where will the necessary manpower be drawn and what quantity of equipment is necessary, as well as where that will be drawn from. Based on those constraints, what's the timeline for this plan? Anything less than fully evicting all Russian forces has to be understood as a failure of the government.

Russia, on the other hand, has very few requirements to win. It must take and secure the borders of the four oblasts, though there could even be some rebordering of Zaporozhia and Kherson in a final settlement. Really that's it. Those conditions may be complicated by needing to repel constant or periodic attacks by Ukraine, or they may be complicated by shelling of Russian territory. But those are continuation of hostilities rather than eliminating them being a prerequisite for Russia to win. Realistically, Russia's minimum goals are quite small relative to its force. The opposite of the Ukrainian situation.

I'm not saying that Russia is setting those minimum goals as the goals, only that those are the publicly pronounced goals at this point and less defined goals like "demilitarize" and "de-nazify" have been superseded to some degree while the former can maintained without huge amounts of ground forces in an offensive posture. So Russia could take a little bit more territory and stop completely, declare victory and wait. There's some logic to this in global opinion shaping. Ukraine and the west will not be able to accept the facts on the ground, while the rest of the world just wants its all over. They may not "like" the territorial acquisition but it's not the end of the world. Now the geopolitical context becomes Ukraine/US waging war on Russia because it refuses to accept those facts on the ground rather than "Russian aggression". Yes, it could mean an arms race but these days the positioning of an arms race is flipped from the 1980's.

Posted by: Lex | Oct 13 2022 17:01 utc | 25

James@14

Yes, I too viewed that video earlier today and am delighted that dungroanin posted the link here. Colonel MacGregor is on top of his game and did indeed insert a bit of humor centering on Genl. Austin. In my opinion the Colonel should (and would) become reinstated to the U.S. military as Chief of Staff, should it come to pass that WE THE PEOPLE recover control over the feral government.

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 13 2022 17:01 utc | 26

In response to Nato nuclear exercise, Russia is holding its own routine exercise and placing the controller aircrafts (aka "doomsday plane") in the air. There may or may not be Nato nuke or dirty bomb in Ukraine.

🇷🇺☢️⚠️ — Observers report that 1- Russian Federation Air Force Ilyushin Il-62M RA-86495 departed from Soltsy-2 Air Base nuclear weapons facility and 2- the Russian Air Force Tupolev Tu-214PU-SBUS RA-64530 ("Doomsday Plane") are both airbone

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 13 2022 17:06 utc | 27

ArchBungle@18

Russian war aims at this time have gone beyond "a chunk". It is realized by the higher command structure in Russia that the entire Ukraine SSR Frankenstein Monster must be disassembled.

The ethnic Russian areas will revert to Mama Bear. The districts in the southwestern oblasts that are Magyar and Romanian ethnicity dominated will return to Hungary and Romania.

NovoUkrania would divorce the Banderites of Galicia. A consortium of Eastern Slavic nations...Belarus, NovoUkrania and the Russian Federation would see to it that the Galicians are limited to police forces only and would guarantee that the land-greedy Polaks would have to satisfy their appetite with the chunks of Germany they were awarded at the termination of WWII and not attempt to take over now neutered Galicia.

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 13 2022 17:08 utc | 28

The Armed Forces of Ukraine hit the village of Oktyabrsky, Belgorod Region. According to preliminary information, the projectile hit in the area of ​​​​the sugar factory, almost in the center of the settlement.
https://t.me/intelslava/39183
Posted by: Zanon | Oct 13 2022 16:58 utc | 23

"In Ukraine, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women." - Zelenskyy

Posted by: Ursula Zandt | Oct 13 2022 17:10 utc | 29

On a more serious note, hitting a sugar factory can be quite explosive.

https://www.acs.org/content/dam/acsorg/education/resources/highschool/chemmatters/archive/chemmatters-december-2010-sugar-an-unusual-explosive.pdf

Posted by: Ursula Zandt | Oct 13 2022 17:13 utc | 30

Hermit@19

IMHO Russia has absofriggenlutely no intention of invading the EU/NATOstani countries. They would see no NEED for such a silly adventure. Rather, they will patiently await the supine patience of the peoples of those countries totally evaporate and duly remove the puppet regimes from their national capitals.

The newly reinvigorated European peoples will also totally dissolve the administrative bureaucracy of the EU in Brussels. As that queen bee's hive is surreptitiously under total control by the City of London and Wall $treet Bank$ters; there will be no need to retain the edifice of "European Unity" despite the wishes of the various European peoples.

In future, there may arise some form of a European Federation, totally dominated by the people themselves and not a centralizing power imposing its rule over the mere "Goyim".

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 13 2022 17:16 utc | 31

Romania, meaning nato, seems interested only in Moldova, to get them into nato by assimilation. Puppet Maia is in action. Since Ukr doesn't export anymore due to strikes, they've lost 30% of electricity and probably they'll take it from Romania. When their gas will be turned off because they don't pay for it, it'll be more fun. Romania was also getting some electricity from Ukr. Not anymore.

Posted by: rk | Oct 13 2022 17:16 utc | 32

Comments on today's clobber list;

2 enemy company tactical groups attempted to attack Orlyanka and Kotlyarovka (Kharkov region) at Kupyansk direction. The enemy has lost over 50 personnel, 3 tanks, 4 infantry combat vehicles and 7 motor vehicles.

maybe a 20% casualty rate.

Up to 2 battalion tactical group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) made another attempt to capture Stelmakhovka and Rozovka (Lugansk People's Republic) at Krasny Liman direction. The attacks have resulted in the elimination of 2 tanks, 5 infantry combat vehicles, 2 pickups and about 60 Ukrainian personnel.

Maybe a 10% casualty rate

Up to 2 battalion tactical groups of the AFU were conducting an offensive towards Pyatikhatki, Kostromka, Bezvodnoye and Pravdino (Kherson region) at Nikolayev-Krivoy Rog direction. Over 110 Ukrainian personnel, 21 armoured combat vehicles and 12 special motor vehicles have been eliminated.

maybe a 20% casualty rate

Comment - if these figures are correct, and represent typical results, then Kiev/NATOs military are taking staggering casualties. If true, then Its utterly confounding how the NATO commanders of these units can continue this senseless slaughter

Posted by: Exile | Oct 13 2022 17:20 utc | 33

@unimperator | Oct 13 2022 17:06 utc | 27

And 11 Tu-160 and Tu-95MS were moved to Murmansk

Posted by: rk | Oct 13 2022 17:32 utc | 34

Posted by: Exile | Oct 13 2022 17:20 utc | 33

Here's one point of view from Russian side. It explains a lot why "lines aren't moving" - the enemy sends more troops to get slaughtered literally on a conveyor belt to pre-made artillery zone, this is the case in Sukhoi Stavok. Why would you move at all if the enemy comes to you, instead?

Conveyor of Death in Sukhoi Stavka — our art in support of a special military operation

The conveyor of Ukrainian death on the Andreevsky sector of the front has been" successfully " operating for a month now.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 13 2022 17:33 utc | 35

if the war ends with Russia holding the four oblasts + crimea and nothing more, does Putin survive?

As an American, I can see Russia having a defensible claim to the four oblasts. Donbas leans Russian anyway. Crimea was Russian back in 1783. Russia needs a landbridge to Crimea because Ukraine will cut their water otherwise.

But, Putin would now find himself with a hypermilitarized hostile neighbor on his border. He hasn't achieved his goals of de-militarization, de-nazification, neutrality.

Even if Russia killed a lot of Ukranians - holding just the 4+ means they'll rebuild their military. They'll be getting beaucoup de monies from the West. They hate Russia because of the war.

He's going to have something like what Israel is for Syria on his border. Are Russians going to be able to live with that?

It would be... constant Ukranian intelligence operations inside Russia. car bombs, scientists getting shot on their commute home, politicians kidnapped and smuggled to the Hague in car trunks. Constant threat of invasion.

And Ukraine will probably get long-range missiles and atomics within 5-10 years. They'll make them themselves if no one will give it to them. They'll probably get help from the West.

All this is IF Russia only gets four oblasts + crimea.

Doesn't it seem like things are 10x worse than they were before in this scenario?

Posted by: GoFast | Oct 13 2022 17:34 utc | 36

Hermit @19: "...the USA has, since the 1950s, planned to respond to a Russian advance on Europe by bombing Europe with nuclear devices..."

Dirty little secret that even most South Korean people don't know: Most of the South Koreans who died in the war were killed by Americans and their pet fascist death squads (and you thought America's death squads were a recent development!). Young South Korean people are told that it was North Koreans who killed their grandparents, but most of those grandparents were either shredded by aerial bombardment and roasted by napalm or lined up in ditches and executed by fascist thugs working for Uncle Sam. The North Koreans never bombed South Korea.

The truth about America's war on Korea is very aggressively suppressed in South Korean schools and media. While the western Establishment (media, schools) sing in perfect harmony about how revolutionary states mislead their populations, the reality is that North Korean students have more detailed and accurate knowledge of Korea's history than South Korean students do!

Whenever you hear about how some shockingly large fraction of the Korean population was exterminated in America's war on that country, bear in mind that this extermination happened across all of Korea, not just in the North. Keep this in mind next time you are chatting with that crazy uncle who fought there and you'll understand a little better why he is a drug addict who refuses to talk about the war.

Europeans should also think long and hard on this. You definitely don't want America "helping" you in a big fight. The US would happily nuke Brussels or Warsaw if it would inconvenience whoever is considered the enemy at the time.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 13 2022 17:39 utc | 37

Military expert Boris Rozhin on the highlights of Russia's special military operation in Ukraine at 20.15 Moscow time on 13.10.2022 especially for Voenkor Kotenok Z @voenkorKotenok channel:

1. Svatovo-Kreminna.
Fighting continues in the area of Terny and Torskoye. The enemy strengthens its grouping in this direction. To the northwest of Svatovo, the enemy continues to attack. Making small advances.

2. Artemovsk.
Our forces (Wagner's PMC) have taken Ivangrad and are fighting for Opytnoye (the settlement has not been taken yet).
Fighting is taking place on the eastern outskirts of Artemivsk.
There is no progress towards Kurdyumovka.
There is no change in the Soledar area.

3. Donetsk's direction.
The clearance of Pervomayskoye continues. About a third of the destroyed village is reported to have been liberated.
Fighting is taking place in the direction of Nevelskoye.
There is no change in the Avdiivka and Marinka areas.

4. Kherson direction.
The enemy continued attempts to probe the front in the area of Davydov Brod and Dudchan.
The enemy has not abandoned the objective of an offensive on Beryslav - it is now accumulating forces in the Nikopol and Kryvorizhskiy sectors for attacks in the coming weeks.

Posted by: Down South | Oct 13 2022 17:40 utc | 38

Posted by: GoFast | Oct 13 2022 17:34 utc | 36

Today "Ukrainians" (most likely those from Lvov/Ruthenians) were holding a protest in London, where they were openly screaming to kill all the Russians. In the case of the so-called nazi statelet of Lvov, it's probably going to kill-or-be-killed.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 13 2022 17:45 utc | 39

William Gruff @37--

Yes, and all too few understand the fact that the TV show M*A*S*H was propaganda like almost all TV shows related to the Empire's wars, Combat being the lone exception, IMO.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 13 2022 17:46 utc | 40

White House:

NATO will go for its "strategic nuclear exercises" only 600 miles away from Russia.

Apparently NATO "does not plan to use real ammunition."

Such a shame. They should. So no one would live to tell the tale.

Posted by: vicente | Oct 13 2022 17:50 utc | 41

https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/29665

Video compilation of Russian attack drones at work.

Posted by: Tobie | Oct 13 2022 18:05 utc | 42

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PKO4bxMUvU
iEarlGrey
Around 10 mins Orban says that the hope for peace is Donald Trump (because Biden is unworkable)!

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 13 2022 18:08 utc | 43

@ aristodemos | Oct 13 2022 17:08 utc | 28

Those areas of Ukraine returned to Hungary, Romania, etc. must come with several stipulations however.

a) That they withdraw their membership from NATO.

b) That no NATO arms or military systems be deployed on their soil.

c) That no NATO troops enter their country without Russian Federation permission.

d) That normal country cooperation between them and the Russian Federation (ie. no sanctions, etc.) be restored.

Posted by: Mummer | Oct 13 2022 18:09 utc | 44

GoFast @ 36
Let's assume NATO takes the west of Ukraine and Russia takes the east. I'd say Russia comes out ahead in that deal looking at the resources, geography and population density of each.
Regardless, if Putin had done nothing, i.e. if NATO had taken all of Ukraine, then Putin would have been seen as a weak loser who doesn't protect his own people in Russia and he likely would have been overthrown.
So yeah, the war and partition of Ukraine may not be ideal for Russia but it beats doing nothing...

Posted by: Tom | Oct 13 2022 18:12 utc | 45

Duma head Volodin's 10 October Telegram statement, with my emphasis:

The cup of patience overflowed.

The Kiev regime has become a terrorist regime. Regular shelling of the critical infrastructure of nuclear power plants - Zaporozhye and Kursk, murders of public figures on the territory of Ukraine and Russia, sabotage on the Crimean bridge.

Zelensky's actions have led to the suffering of the Ukrainian people, who are actually held hostage to his Nazi policies.

The President of Ukraine, giving orders to commit terrorist attacks, stood on a par with Osama bin Laden and other international terrorists.

Politicians of Western countries supporting the Zelensky regime sponsor terrorism.

In this regard, I would like to recall the rule known throughout the world: terrorists are not negotiated.

So, the West and Ukraine are all terrorists who aren't to be negotiated with. Now tie that statement in with all the anti-terrorism emphasis being made by the plethora of non-Western multilateral organizations. But does it really seem odd that Lavrov says Russia remains open to negotiations but the West is the actor not wanting to talk? Well, not really when one realizes that terrorists don't negotiate or talk, but rather act and sometimes declare responsibility.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 13 2022 18:14 utc | 46

some peops talk here about the bear with 3 ribs in his mouth before he devours a lot of flesh... well none of the ukrainian/ex russian Territories are "Bones" - they are all big meat

-> "Bones" would be for example the 3 baltic states or the 3 visegard states (without hungary even if the name is like "Hungry")

Posted by: Macpott | Oct 13 2022 18:19 utc | 47

Posted by: Zanon | Oct 13 2022 16:58 utc | 23

Behold! The might of NATO brought to bear in one fell stroke upon .... A sugar factory ...?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 13 2022 18:20 utc | 48

Posted by: Leroy | Oct 13 2022 16:00 utc | 8

I too think that acts of terrorism against the Russian citizenry are going to continue, and that one of these acts is likely to include firing upon a civilian airliner (Ukraine has done this before, ahem...). With the amount of MANPADS that have been flooded into Ukraine by the US, it is virtually inevitable that some of them have been smuggled into Russia. It is also now fairly clear that the Ukrainian SBU, probably on advice from the CIA and MI6, have deep cover operatives in Russia and have had them there since 2014. The Russian FSB has, since the Kerch bridge bombing, claimed to have discovered and thwarted at least two other sabotage attacks on Russian territory. They are not going to be able to stop them all.

What this portends for the future of the conflict is anybody's guess.

Posted by: WJ | Oct 13 2022 18:20 utc | 49

The Nazi command has deployed Right Sector units to prevent the Ukrainian Armed Forces from retreating from Artemivsk.

Up to 200 Right Sector fighters have been deployed in this direction and have been ordered to stop the retreat of units of the 93rd Army Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/14075

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 13 2022 18:21 utc | 50

@ William Gruff | Oct 13 2022 17:39 utc | 37

The Korean situation for the past 75 years is not what the 'outside world' thinks.

We are told that it is a 'stand-off' between the 'Capitalist' South versus the 'Communist' North. But that is only a facade. ... In reality, both the North and the South are 'Mirror Images' of each other.

The North is a 'Communist' society on the surface, but a Dynastic Reign in practice. It is a communist government that is succeeded from father to son to grandson (a very non-Communist concept). ... This is very 'Korean', as dynasties have defined that culture for millennia.

As for the 'Capitalist' South, the very same dynastic succession occurs. It goes under the form of the powerful 'Chaebols' or corporate families (Samsung, Lotte, Hyundai, etc.) who pass power from father to son to grandson in the same manner.

Therefore, what we are seeing is a period in Korea's 6,000 year history that is much like the 'Three Kingdoms' period where the dynastic Silla, Baekchae, and Koryo powers all vied for control of the peninsula.

When the DMZ is abolished, the Korean people will reunite quickly. ... They are one of the most homogeneous and totemic races on earth. The current 'Communist vs. Capitalist' template is merely a Western facade awaiting its disintegration. ... Let the Koreans be Koreans and they will solve their quarrels with each other.

Two things they do agree upon today: a) that Paektu San (mountain) is their ancestral 'Eden' and belongs totally to Korea. and, b) the Sea of Japan is incorrectly named. It is the 'East Sea' (Dong Hae).

Posted by: Mummer | Oct 13 2022 18:34 utc | 51

@GoFast #36
Those 4 oblasts are responsible for a majority of Ukraine's GDP.
So even ignoring the 10 million people (including Crimea), the GDP and population hit to Ukraine is enormous.
If, or should I say when, the access to the Black Sea is cut off - the remaining rump Ukraine will be a somewhat larger version of North Macedonia. Which is to say, poor and with no prospects.

It is also quite unclear just how much population Ukraine will have even if the fighting were to magically stop now:
10 million gone with referendums.
8 million fled to Europe.
Likely a million or two, or more, fled elsewhere.
It is very conceivable that Ukraine's population will drop by 50% to go along with the 75%+ GDP fall - which in turn will have to service the tens to hundreds of billions of dollars of debt rump Ukraine will have to repay their NATO "benefactors".

Sorry, no part of this supports the fantasy of "porcupine" Ukraine.

Similar examples support the idea that the most likely outcome is shithole Ukraine.

How prosperous are the ex-Yugoslavia statelets?
I have already mentioned North Macedonia.
How about Kosovo?
Bosnia's growth has been 1% to 2.5% (pathetically low for a poor European nation) since 2000 - with a couple years of exceptions.
Slovenia? sad.
Montenegro? sad.
Nor have Serbia or Croatia done great, but at least those are historical nations.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 13 2022 18:35 utc | 52

Just a general thank you to b and all the barflies, I'm amazed and grateful for the information and level of debate. Included also are all the regulars on the other thread.

Much more enjoyable when trolling is (very!) sparse as is today - could it be a hint that the empire is shifting to a new approach and the online soldiers are waiting for new guidelines?

Posted by: htyul | Oct 13 2022 18:38 utc | 53

Moscow tells the UN SG that this isn't right. Third World countries will suffer because of this, though it sounds as though Moscow will look for ways around it. I can see the headlines in Washington and London, Russia causes famine in poorer countries due to Ukraine conflict.

"President Vladimir Putin earlier called ugly the decision of the European Union to lift restrictions on the supply of Russian grain and fertilizers only for European countries. According to him, Moscow will sell its grain, despite the restrictions, but wants it to reach the poorest countries. Putin has repeatedly stated that food is supplied to the wrong countries."

https://ria.ru/20221013/pretenzii-1823823546.html

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Oct 13 2022 18:39 utc | 54

Putin looking to build a gas hub in Russia friendly Turkey, to sell gas to Europe, the pipeline could either go under the Black Sea or through Georgia which I think hasn't took sides in the conflict yet.

Either way it bypasses unfriendly nations.

https://ria.ru/20221013/gaz-1823699855.html

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Oct 13 2022 18:45 utc | 55

Following on the heels of the US president Joe Biden mentioning Russia using nukes, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell has warned Russia that its army would be "annihilated" by the US-led military alliance if uses nuclear weapons against Ukraine.

It would appear that it's the West that is obsessed with nuclear weapons and not Russia, the US has already dropped nukes on two civilian cities.

"This gives the game away that it's all just sabre rattling by Nato. For if they were really worried about radiation or fallout, they wouldn't be allowing Ukrainian forces to shell the largest nuclear power station in Europe.

Last week, former CIA director and retired US army general David Petraeus said that the United States would destroy Russia’s troops and equipment in Ukraine and sink its Black Sea fleet if it carried out a nuclear attack in the country.

“Just to give you a hypothetical, we would respond by leading a NATO – a collective – effort that would take out every Russian conventional force that we can see and identify on the battlefield in Ukraine and also in Crimea and every ship in the Black Sea,” he told ABC News.

Petraeus said the use of nuclear weapons by Russia in Ukraine would not trigger NATO’s Article 5, which calls for the collective defense of NATO because Ukraine is not part of NATO.

However, he acknowledged that the likelihood that radiation would extend to NATO countries under the Article 5 umbrella could perhaps be construed as an attack on a NATO member."

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2022/10/13/690900/%E2%80%98Russian-army-will-be-annihilated-if-he-nukes-Ukraine%E2%80%99

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Oct 13 2022 18:55 utc | 56

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 13 2022 9:23 utc | 178:
«Everyone should understand that Ukraine is divided, in the west the so-called Ruthenians, mostly descendants of the Poles. In the east, the Russian Ukrainians.»

Posted by: Aslangeo | Oct 13 2022 10:10 utc | 185:
«basically from east to west
a. people who identify as ethnic Russians, speak Russian and are orthodox Christians
b. people who identify as ethnic Ukrainians , speak Russian and are orthodox Christians
c. people who identify as Ukrainian, speak Ukrainian and are orthodox Christians
d. People who identify as Ukrainian, speak Ukrainian and are Uniate Catholics
e. Ruthenians from Transcarpathia, who speak Rusyn and are orthodox Christians»

The first is a bit too coarse, the second is a bit too fine. There are roughly *three* main zones and groups:

* Mostly "muscovites" and "malorussians" in the east, Crimea and south, mostly russian-speaking. These are more "russian" than many regions of the Russian Federation.
* Mostly "malorussians" and many "muscovites" in the centre areas, a majority still speaking russian or malorussian, and a minority have been "ruthenized" and made to learn ruthenian.
* Many "ruthenians" and some "malorussians" in the west, many speaking ruthenian, not many speaking malorussian, yet most somewhat bilingual in russian.

There are many minorities like greeks, rusyns (which are not "ruthenians"), hungarians, romanians, and even italians, which have all been suppressed by the fascist "ruthenian" government from Kiev-Lvov (yes, including the rusyns).

The terminology has changed a number of times since the 13th century:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Ruthenia#History
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ruthenia#History
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Ruthenia#History

* All eastern slavs of that area used to be called "ruthenians", and "russian", "rusyn", etc. were all synonyms of that at some point.
* It used to be that "Ukraine" was a geographic, not cultural or ethnic expression, a bit like "Siberia" or "Central America".
* In the old times the main groups were called "red", "white" and "black" Ruthenia, the "russians" or "great russians" (somewhat overlapping with the "black ruthenians") were called "muscovites" ("moskals" by the "malorussians", "kastaps" by the "ruthenians").

I use the word "ruthenians" to indicate those descended from and living in the core of the Greater Ruthenian kingdom of the 14th century, whose heraldic colors were blue and yellow (surprise!), and whose "totem" was the diving falcon (the "trident"):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Galicia%E2%80%93Volhynia

When the Kingdom of Greater Ruthenia was a thing, Muscovy was a semi-savage small state under Golden Horde suzerainty, and the ruthenians, then as now, thought of themselves as noble pure slavs and of the muscovites as savage mixed breeds.

Eventually the Lithuanian Empire pushed back the Kingdom of Greater Ruthenia, incorporating most of it, and became pretty large (with Muscovy as a buffer statelet between them and the mongols):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lithuanian_state_in_13-15th_centuries.png

Eventually the lithuanian-ruthenian empire became the lithuanian-ruthenian-polish empire, and the ruthenians (more than the lithuanians) became somewhat polonized, while "russians" from further east became "malorussians" by settling in the vast areas around the Dnieper, and later many "muscovites" settled east and south of the Dnieper.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian%E2%80%93Ruthenian_Commonwealth

Catherine II of "Muscovy" then demolished the lithuanian-ruthenian-polish empire in 1792, something that the descendants of the lower nobility of those areas have never forgiven the "muscovites" for.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthenian_nobility

Then the "ruthenians" did a neat trick: they started to call themselves "ukrainians" and their language "ukrainian", to lay claim to the whole "Ukraine" (as in the 14th century). If a group could be called "ukrainian" that would be the "malorussians" in the centre.

In 2014 the "ruthenians" in the west and a "malorussian" faction allied with them won against another "malorussian" faction and the "muscovites" in the east, and rapidly the "ruthenians" took control from their "malorussian" allies, and started to impose "ruthenization" (which they called "ukrainization" to make it sound nationalistic) or massacre over the "malorussians" and the "muscovites" and all other ethnic groups, and started a war of aggression against the east ukrainians.

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 13 2022 18:55 utc | 57

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Oct 13 2022 18:39 utc | 54

I think Russia would do well to set aside a certain percentage of their annual grain harvest (that would have previously been exported anyway) and send it to developing countries on a cost-recovery only basis.
At this stage, it would really help cement friendship/relationships with African, ME, and other 'global south' nations, and wouldn't harm the Russian economy.
It's the kind of 'win-win' approach that is sorely needed in troubled times, and would be bound to help those most in need.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Oct 13 2022 18:57 utc | 58

As poverty reaches new heights in the UK, and foodbanks see record numbers of families looking for food, in some cases cold food because they cannot afford the energy costs to heat the food, the Westminster parliament will send more weapons and aid to Ukraine. However, no weapons will be set to aid the terribly oppressed Palestinians and Yemeni's.

"Britain will supply Ukraine with advanced air defense missiles capable of shooting down cruise projectiles, following Russian strikes on Kiev and other Ukrainian cities in recent days, UK Defense Minister Ben Wallace says.

Wallace announced the new aid ahead of a two-day NATO meeting in Brussels on Wednesday.

The missile authorized for shipment to Ukraine is called the Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM).

Furthermore, the UK will also be providing Ukraine with hundreds of drones to support its intelligence services, and 18 howitzer artillery guns, in addition to 64 already delivered."

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2022/10/13/690862/UK-to-supply-Ukraine-with-advanced-air-defense-missiles

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Oct 13 2022 19:00 utc | 59

Romania is going to buy 3246 tents, over 293k beds, over 285k blankets, over 135k sleeping bags, 430k mattresses, 830k bed sheets, 402k pillow sheets, 430k pillows and 152k clothing items.

The reason given for this purchase is the increasing risk of a meltdown occurring at the Zaporozhe NPP and the need to be able to house and clothe the "likely influx of foreign citizens which will arrive from the affected territories".

Posted by: rk | Oct 13 2022 19:03 utc | 60

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 13 2022 18:35 utc | 52

"Slovenia? sad."

I don't know whict statistics / markers you are using.

Slovenia looks to be doing quite alright:

According to this:
https://www.worlddata.info/europe/slovenia/economy.php

worlds 32 richest country per capita calculated per inhabitant taking into account the purchasing power parity.
Those numbers can of course be criticised. But if you, or anybody else does, please offer alternatives, including Slovenia's status according to them.

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Oct 13 2022 19:03 utc | 61

@William Gruff 37

Yes, indeed. The bare facts are horrendous enough. After VJ, the Soviets established a local government and withdrew, as had been agreed at Yalta. The Americans, realizing that elections would result in a communist government and reunification, refused to adhere to the agreements. In the resulting US lead war, the US killed off 20% of the Korean population, dropped 635,000 tonnes of bombs (more than in WW II) and 32,557 tonnes of Napalm.

The US lead forces killed 398,000 to 750,000 North Korean and allied military, with a further 145,000 missing along with 2.5 million civilians, 1.55 million from the DPRK. The US destroyed over 75% of Pyongyang, along with most bridges, dams, electrical, water and sewage infrastructure and buildings.The US and friends deployed indiscriminate bioware agents and were intending to deploy nuclear weapons which was only interrupted by the armistice reached by Dag Hammarskjöld, a fact which may have contributed to Dag Hammarskjöld murder by the CIA.

I recommend the DPRK reading guide as a solid basis for understanding Korea, which, in the unlikely event that humans survive the current nexus of extinction threats, will, despite all US efforts to the contrary, in all likelihood reunite.

Posted by: Hermit | Oct 13 2022 19:11 utc | 62

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 13 2022 17:39 utc | 37

Do you have any decent links for this information about the killing of South Koreans by USA? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity and because everything remotely inconvenient to Empire has been SEO-censored on all the major search engines. Are there any 'conventional' sources for this knowledge? It will come in very handy for me in daily arguments w/ Uncle Sam cheerleaders in my various feeds and chat streams.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 13 2022 19:12 utc | 63

Posted by: Hermit | Oct 13 2022 19:11 utc | 62

It would seem that this link could answer my questions about Korea that I made to William Gruff just above this comment but when I click on your Google drive link, it's a bunch of jumbled HTML with some links here and there toward the middle and end. What is the proper way to open that file/document?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 13 2022 19:15 utc | 64

«by settling in the vast areas around the Dnieper»

One of my themes is that it is very important to understand that "the past is a foreign country" and many things in the past, before the "industrial revolution" in particular, were very, very different.

One of the big differences is that most of Europe, like today most of Siberia, was forests or steppes, with small villages and towns here and there, without many formal boundaries, so entire populations could move around unopposed until they came near a town. For example the migrations of the gauls BCE

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Volcae_Arecomisci_and_Tectosages_(migrations).svg

and of the visigoths a few centuries later:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Invasions_of_the_Roman_Empire_1.png

It is very difficult to understand the gigantic mess of cultures and ethnicities in Central and Southern Europe without fully getting that hundreds of thousands of people could move around for thousands of km almost unopposed.

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 13 2022 19:16 utc | 65

The war is won in men.
Kalibrating all Ukrainian hospitals would be strategically
valid, unprotected by air defense. Soft target.
Remove the medical structure, its staff and all the
war wounded.
Civilians have been fired long ago.
The war is won in men.

Posted by: la bouteille | Oct 13 2022 19:18 utc | 66

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 13 2022 18:55 utc | 57
> In the old times the main groups were called "red", "white" and "black" Ruthenia, the "russians" or "great russians" (somewhat overlapping with the "black ruthenians") were called "muscovites" ("moskals" by the "malorussians", "kastaps" by the "ruthenians").

Ruthenia simply means Russia in Latin. The element ruthenium is named in honor of Russia.
Katsap is the Turkish word for a butcher (as a profession).
Who knows why Ukrainians use that word as a derogatory term for Russians. Maybe they really see themselves as pigs?

Posted by: hopehely | Oct 13 2022 19:18 utc | 67

Mummer @51: "When the DMZ is abolished, the Korean people will reunite quickly."

Absolutely. No Korean I ever spoke with (I lived there for a while) used "if" when talking about reunification. It was always framed as "when". This was true in both the North and the South.

Reunification will hurt, though. The North keeps the memory of the war alive while the South has been force-fed Hollywood fantasy. As karlof1 mentioned @40, TV shows like "M*A*S*H" served as the model. The South Koreans have been raised to believe that the North just went crazy one day and started killing for no reason, while the Americans were just there to provide humanitarian aid (the US has maintained veto authority over all media and school textbooks and curricula in the South since the country was partitioned, so of course their history has been sugar coated).

I can certainly understand wanting to forget horror of the scale that the US inflicted on Korea, but the South will have to come to grips with it when reunification happens.

Something similar will eventually happen in the Ukraine. The western Ukrainians will eventually have to face up to how monstrous their Nazis are if any part of the Ukraine is to be salvaged.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 13 2022 19:19 utc | 68

Following on the heels of the US president Joe Biden mentioning Russia using nukes, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell has warned Russia that its army would be "annihilated" by the US-led military alliance if uses nuclear weapons against Ukraine.

Republicofscotland @ 56

Nukes won't be used against the Ukraine, but if the nukes will be used at all, it'd be against certain EU countries, UK and the US.

Posted by: Paulg | Oct 13 2022 19:21 utc | 69

Posted by: rk | Oct 13 2022 19:03 utc | 60
«meltdown occurring at the Zaporozhe NPP and the need to be able to house and clothe the "likely influx of foreign citizens which will arrive from the affected territories"»

That is very unlikely, as ZNPP is now in a mostly dormant state IIRC. What they may be preparing for is a NATO nuclear event in Ukraine ("Putin did it!" as for the pipelines and the Kherson bridge), or even more likely, millions of ukrainians escaping their towns once they figure out that the fuel supply has been more than halved as the RF was supplying it, and the electricity supply has mostly been taken out.

The situation is so dire that the ukrainian government has been even asking NATO to supply winter clothing for the soldiers, as if hard winters had never happened before in Ukraine so they did not need to stock winter clothing.

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 13 2022 19:25 utc | 70

@Republicofscotland 55

Georgia is riddled with US and Israeli influence, which has peddled the lie, accepted by many Georgians, that Russia attacked it and robbed Georgia of wealth and land in 2008 (despite even an EU study that showed that Georgia, convinced that the US would support it, was responsible for the opening of hostilities in 2008). Russia would be well advised to avoid Georgia, as it has to Georgia's great loss, until Georgia throws off US/Israeli influence and stops disseminating hostile Russiaphobic propaganda.

Posted by: Hermit | Oct 13 2022 19:27 utc | 71

c1ue | Oct 13 2022 18:35 utc | 52

Hello,
your posts here generally provide a lot of good information, so this is not to be taken as some kind of "attack," okay?
The information about the refugees is halfway in the right direction, but it deserves more accuracy because of the explosive nature. Because here with us in the golden west the truth is also with the topic gladly suppressed.

The country with the most refugees is Russia - a good 2.8 million.
Then comes Poland with a little more than 1.4 million.
So when people say that about 8 million refugees have fled to Europe, what are they talking about?

UNHCR records about 7.6 million refugees from Ukraine, so the figure of about 8 million is quite accurate.

However, the almost 2.9 million refugees to Russia (and Belarus) are included here! But one should also consider them separately: almost 40 % of all refugees from Ukraine have fled to Russia. By the way, if you now think a bit further, this also says a lot about the attitudes and wishes of the people in Ukraine - which is probably why it is not discussed in our media.
That's why we should be as accurate as possible and tell "them" - emphatically.
Greetings and thanks!

https://data.unhcr.org/en/situations/ukraine

Posted by: SW (also Berlin) | Oct 13 2022 19:31 utc | 72

htyul @ 53

Much more enjoyable when trolling is (very!) sparse as is today - could it be a hint that the empire is shifting to a new approach and the online soldiers are waiting for new guidelines

Finaly mobilized and sent off to fill in depleted forces in Ukraine? Troll volkssturm. Let the fragging begin.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 13 2022 19:31 utc | 73

@Hermit (19) "What Stoltenberg didn't mention was the corollary that the sequelae would eliminate most extant species, plant and animal, on earth, and that there is no reason to imagine that humans might avoid extinction along with everything else."

Stoltenberg is deranged, and I mean that in all seriousness. Of course, talking tough could be an act, but for a NATO official to talk so casually about nuclear annihilation is deranged.

Posted by: Rob | Oct 13 2022 19:38 utc | 74

Posted by: Mummer | Oct 13 2022 18:34 utc | 51:
«When the DMZ is abolished, the Korean people will reunite quickly.»

The USA and Japan will never allow that, unless the reunited Korea is their avvasal state, in practice a japanese-USA co-protectorate.

I watch many amusing korean TV series, and in several there is a reunification theme, and most make it clear that the USA and Japan would do anything to stop it.

«most homogeneous and totemic races»

Their shamans (like those of Japan) are very clearly derived from those of the siberian/tungusic peoples, still thousands of years later.

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 13 2022 19:38 utc | 75

aristodemos@21:
if that false flag event occurs, hopefully patriots will pull those neocons out of their homes and offices, with a nice double tap for each and every one of the sorry sons of bitches.

Posted by: morongobill | Oct 13 2022 19:40 utc | 76

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 13 2022 18:35 utc | 52
«10 million gone with referendums. 8 million fled to Europe. Likely a million or two, or more, fled elsewhere.»

The latter mostly to the Russian federation. 1-2 million ukrainians were so terrified by the "orcs" that they emigrated to Mordor. :-)

Perhaps another 5-10 million ukranians will emigrated during this coming winter.
Anyhow those who went to the EU (mostly Ukraine's young women) will probably never return (they will marry EU citizens and settle).
Now that the Donbas republics have asked for membership in the Russian Federation, I guess some of their citizens will return when the situation improves.

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 13 2022 19:41 utc | 77

Posted by: htyul | Oct 13 2022 18:38 utc | 53
It's simple! Trolls were quiet because they were sitting in places where the lights were extinguished.

Posted by: AndrVU | Oct 13 2022 19:42 utc | 78

@ Tom

Your point about the Donbas being industrially/economically important is taken. I've heard it before but often forget it because circa 2014 there was a lot of western media coverage about it being an economically depressed region.

Even so, seems like UKR is going to be a bigger problem for RU than it was before. They went from having a powerful ultra-nationalist contingent to being an ultra-nationalist rogue state bent on building a Greater Ukraine, plus the massive influx of weapons, training, and aide from the West. It's still a long way from 2024, when an election in U.S. might stem the largess (and not obvious anything will change - a Prez. DeSantis will probably stay the course on building up UKR)

UKR is currently on a trajectory to be to Eastern Europe what Iran is for the Middle East.

Did people not see FSB captured some dude trying to bomb the pipeline to Turkey yesterday? It's a rogue terror state. Jesus

Posted by: GoFast | Oct 13 2022 19:52 utc | 79

«the lie, accepted by many Georgians, that Russia attacked it and robbed Georgia of wealth and land in 2008 (despite even an EU study that showed that Georgia, convinced that the US would support it, was responsible for the opening of hostilities in 2008).»

My usual quotes from unimpeachable NATO sources:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-georgia-russia-opposition/saakashvili-planned-s-ossetia-invasion-ex-minister-idUSLD12378020080914
“Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili had long planned a military strike to seize back the breakaway region of South Ossetia but executed it poorly, making it easy for Russia to retaliate, Saakashvili’s former defence minister said. [...] the United States was partly to blame for the war, having failed to check the ambitions of what he called a man with democratic failings.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2524550/Russia-invades-Georgia-as-South-Ossetia-descends-towards-war.html
“5:13PM BST 08 Aug 2008
World leaders have appealed for a ceasefire in the conflict, which erupted after Georgia launched a huge offensive aimed at imposing its control over the rebel province with its large Russian population.”

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18269210
“Tensions came to head in early August 2008, when, after nearly a week of clashes between Georgian troops and separatist forces, Georgia launched a concerted air and ground assault attack on South Ossetia's main city, Tskhinvali.”

This was when NATO media still occasionally made realisrtic reportage, before they switched entirely to "home front morale" psychological operations (of which I think the Skripal story was the general test of how far the NATO media would go in reporting ridiculously implausible and constantly changing conspiracy theories from their governments, and the test fully succeeded).

The RF peace-keeping intervention against the georgian attack in 2008 had long term consequences for Ukraine: the RF forces eventually won, but after showing how poorly equipped and organized they were, winning only because the georgian forces were even worse and led by nutters like Saakashvili.

This means that when the USA appointed Poroshenko as president of Ukraine and Poroshenko started the war of terrorist aggression against the U.N. Charter right to autonomy of the people of the Donbas, Putin's position was to try to negotiate, as the RF military had not been improved yet.

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 13 2022 19:56 utc | 80

la bouteille | Oct 13 2022 19:18 utc | 66

At least all nato field hospitals, including Israel's, should be gone.

Blissex | Oct 13 2022 19:25 utc | 70

Yes, I read a few days ago that znpp is off now and will remain off. The reactors are safe but the fuel storage can be exploded, just like before. Probably what you said, false flags or stuff for nazis in winter.

Posted by: rk | Oct 13 2022 19:57 utc | 81

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 13 2022 17:33 utc | 35
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 13 2022 17:39 utc | 37

put these two posts together. it must be confirmation bias that makes me think of phoenixes and condors and paperclips and vietnam and afghanistan and iraq and all of S America and too many other instances to remember. i had never heard what Gruff posted about Korea but I can confirm that this is not the way "S Koreans" (war refugees) in the US talk about the war. but did a S Vietnamese army exist? an Iraqi army or Afghani army? "we'll stand down when they stand up!" maybe it's b/c they don't believe in "democracy" that they don't want to join Western military causes? isn't that Iraq's problem, as Hilary told us year after year? "We gave them this great democracy, and if they believed in democracy, they would have preserved it. by joining our militias. since they didn't, now they get ISIS."

oh wait. did someone say ISIS is coming? no way. not in the multiverse of madness we live in. what a hydra. will Capt America protect us??? but what if...the unthinkable...SHIELD is HYDRA? omg!

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Oct 13 2022 20:00 utc | 82

@la bouteille #66, @rk #81,

Deliberately targeting military hospitals is a major war crime. Deliberately targeting *civilian* hospitals is as vile as it gets. What is wrong with you two?

Posted by: Yenwoda | Oct 13 2022 20:00 utc | 83

«I think Russia would do well to set aside a certain percentage of their annual grain harvest (that would have previously been exported anyway) and send it to developing countries on a cost-recovery only basis.»

The RF no longer does "active operations" abroad. The USSR used to donate to third-world nations, with sacks of cereals stamped "donated by the USSR" *in russian* (great idea!), and there have been reported cases where the CIA overwrote that with "gift from America!!!" in the local language (IIRC the USSR eventually learned to do the same the other way round).

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 13 2022 20:01 utc | 84

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 13 2022 17:33 utc | 35
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 13 2022 17:39 utc | 37

put these two posts together. it must be confirmation bias that makes me think of phoenixes and condors and paperclips and vietnam and afghanistan and iraq and all of S America and too many other instances to remember. i had never heard what Gruff posted about Korea but I can confirm that this is not the way "S Koreans" (war refugees) in the US talk about the war. but did a S Vietnamese army exist? an Iraqi army or Afghani army? "we'll stand down when they stand up!" maybe it's b/c they don't believe in "democracy" that they don't want to join Western military causes? isn't that Iraq's problem, as Hilary told us year after year? "We gave them this great democracy, and if they believed in democracy, they would have preserved it. by joining our militias. since they didn't, now they get ISIS."

oh wait. did someone say ISIS is coming? no way. not in the multiverse of madness we live in. what a hydra. will Capt America protect us??? but what if...the unthinkable...SHIELD is HYDRA? omg! whodda thunk, just from looking at national budgets? we don't do body counts. or money counts, apparently.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Oct 13 2022 20:02 utc | 85

@Tom_Q_Collins
@William Gruff

Apparently Google is continuing to make such information challenging to access. I have recreated the file and created a bitly link that Des to be working for me.

Canonical URL: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13Ly-0tFJNFZBkJBSWvb6Amx0VS4mwCYKSx2Xt_fXUE0
Short Url: https://bit.ly/DPRKReading

Please let me know if you are still having issues and we can seek some other approach.

Posted by: Hermit | Oct 13 2022 20:04 utc | 86

Hey shitoda, only Ukr shelled hospitals and ambulances. Now get lost , you're too drunk today

Posted by: rk | Oct 13 2022 20:05 utc | 87

GoFast@36

Not to worry. Russia will cleanse the entire mess. There will be developed a NovoUkrania, with a totally new government which will reign in the strictly Ukrainian dialect regions of the current Frankenstein Monster congrlomoration created by the Bolsheviks and Soviets as Ukraine SSR as an administrative element within the USSR.

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 13 2022 20:06 utc | 88

The Ukrainians, apparently, have never read Tennyson. Or maybe they missed the cynicism. Or that the battle described took place in Crimea.

I
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
“Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!” he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

II
“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

III
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.

IV
Flashed all their sabres bare,
Flashed as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wondered.
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right through the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reeled from the sabre stroke
Shattered and sundered.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

V
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell.
They that had fought so well
Came through the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

VI
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!

Posted by: Bob | Oct 13 2022 20:07 utc | 89

@Rob | Oct 13 2022 19:38 utc | 74

Stoltenberg is deranged, and I mean that in all seriousness. Of course, talking tough could be an act, but for a NATO official to talk so casually about nuclear annihilation is deranged.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 13 2022 20:08 utc | 90

«UKR is currently on a trajectory to be to Eastern Europe what Iran is for the Middle East.»

Iran is a stable independent state with rational if authoritarian elites.

My guess is that the NATO intended state for Ukraine is Afghanistan or even "better" Lybia/Somalia or at least Syria/Iraq, that is a mostly or somewhat failed state being a constant source of trouble the RF. Perhaps Ukraine might become as "stable" as Pakistan/Myanmar, if they are lucky.

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 13 2022 20:08 utc | 91

Mummer@44. Agreed. Good uptake.

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 13 2022 20:10 utc | 92

WJ@49

First law of physics: "For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction". In other words, should Ukie terrorists within Russia succeed with a manpad against a civilian airliner, Russian forces will destroy more bridges and railroad stations in Galicia which smuggle in those weapons.

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 13 2022 20:15 utc | 93

On Military Summary Channel there is a talk about Russia leaving some Kherson areas.

Posted by: marko | Oct 13 2022 20:16 utc | 94

52, 72, 77

I had heard 6 million to Europe, 3 million to RF. Months ago. But let's go with the lower number from SW72. Round off to 8. There were already 6 million Ukrainian citizens living and working in RF before hostilities began. Ukraine has always included the 9 (or 10) millions living in Crimea and the four oblasts as part of Ukrainian population. Claimed population ever since 2014 has been 40 million. Ukraine has long refused to do a census so we are sort of stuck with that even if we don't believe it. 40 minus 8 minus 6 minus 9 leaves rump Ukraine with 17 millions. I think that is likely too high. More population is fleeing right now..

Remaining populations skews older. The young with any future have left. Semblance that this is a normal country comes from the television production company that is the Zelensky regime.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 13 2022 20:19 utc | 95

ctue@52

Logically, should the RU demolition of the current Ukrainian puppet regime continue onto its reasonable conclusion of total elimination of that polity; they will declare on behalf of NovoUkrainia a Jubilee, where all indebtedness, along with cessions of agricultural and mineral lands, would be erased...totally eliminated.

It will disturb greatly the greedy-grabbers who have supported the Frankenstein Monster. However, facing a fully victorious Russia, there is virtually nothing they can do short of gnashing their teeth and pulling out their hair by the roots.

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 13 2022 20:22 utc | 96

@ William Gruff | Oct 13 2022 19:19 utc | 68

I too have spent some time in Korea. I learned to understand their 'odd culture' which seems impenetrable to Westerners.

As for reunification, I think the biggest problem will be the 'Carpetbagger Syndrome'. That is, the aggressive businessmen who try to go up to the North and buy up their property and infrastructure for pennies-on-the-dollar and cheat the unsuspecting North Koreans. ... They will need some initial protection against this.

Posted by: Mummer | Oct 13 2022 20:23 utc | 97

Marko@94

Apparently, Dima is off his meds once again. Why should the reinforced Russian units in the Kherson region possibly retreat any further while facing yet another lugubrious assault by the Ukies? Haven't yet today checked in on his Military Summary site, but may do so later.

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 13 2022 20:25 utc | 98

@ Blissex | Oct 13 2022 19:25 utc | 70

>> ukrainian government has been even asking NATO to
>> supply winter clothing for the soldiers, as if hard winters
>> had never happened before in Ukraine so they did not
>> need to stock winter clothing.

Maybe for foreign fighters hailing from warm climes?

Maybe just a meaningless line written for an actor to elicit emotional response in sheeple, that bears no relation to the actual request or shipments?

Posted by: dfg | Oct 13 2022 20:29 utc | 99

The new Russian General in ukraine. Those that followed Syria Tiger forces were second to none and trained Russian troops in the country.

https://strategic-culture.org/news/2022/10/13/general-armageddon-enters-the-ring/

The gloves are off now and that doesn't bother me at all. Go Russia.

Posted by: jo6pac | Oct 13 2022 20:29 utc | 100