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October 6, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-167
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. Please stick to the topic. The current open thread for other issues is here.
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I posted this at the end of the other thread but I think it gives an interesting explanation for the sudden USF advances.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/12236 Posted by: Down South | Oct 6 2022 14:24 utc | 1 I still think Russia will win. Come hell or high water. Z Posted by: g wiltek | Oct 6 2022 14:25 utc | 2 Kiev’s economy will contract by 35% in 2022, compared with a 4.5% fall in Russian GDP according to the World Bank. Posted by: Tom | Oct 6 2022 14:33 utc | 3 Posted by: Down South | Oct 6 2022 14:24 utc | 1 Posted by: veto | Oct 6 2022 14:34 utc | 4 Interesting analysis from Larry Johnson
https://sonar21.com/more-military-and-economic-considerations-in-ukraine/ Posted by: Down South | Oct 6 2022 14:37 utc | 5 The US is there to play with their toys, not to fight. Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 6 2022 14:42 utc | 6 https://t.me/s/rybar Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 6 2022 14:46 utc | 7 A convergence of the geo-political, the battle front, and the Bible scriptures is occurring regarding the Russian Bear. Posted by: young | Oct 6 2022 14:51 utc | 8
If true, UA generals were probably against it because they expected a counter attack. Which indeed would have been devastating. Posted by: Tbx | Oct 6 2022 14:54 utc | 9 Posted by: Tom | Oct 6 2022 14:33 utc | 3 Posted by: unimperator | Oct 6 2022 14:55 utc | 10 US-supplied HARM anti-radiation missile fired by Ukrainian forces shot down over Donetsk, Donetsk Republic, West Russia. Posted by: rk | Oct 6 2022 14:56 utc | 11 Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 6 2022 14:46 utc | 7 Posted by: unimperator | Oct 6 2022 15:03 utc | 12 Not sure how AI magically creates total battlefield coverage. Mapping enemy locations comes from observation- be it visual, radar, satellite, field reports, etc. Posted by: Flyrelly | Oct 6 2022 15:03 utc | 13
Three weeks ago the Russian’s took out the Kharkov TPP, the one nearby Slavyansk/Kramatorsk, and if I recall correctly another one in Krivoy Rog. Posted by: Tbx | Oct 6 2022 15:03 utc | 14 The problem with Larry Johnson’s analysis is that the US doesn’t do house-to-house fighting to weed out only the fighters. Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 6 2022 15:06 utc | 15 A CIA nonsense story from the Intercept but with some interesting details:
So Biden is using a ‘Russiagate’ finding about some memes on Facebook that allegedly came from Russia to wage a war. The US excels at video games, including war games. Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 6 2022 15:11 utc | 17 AI is superior at finding optimal solutions. In warfare this could be finding the most optimal points of attack. This is done by AI computing billions of calculations per minute. Posted by: Comandante | Oct 6 2022 15:13 utc | 18 That Slavyangrad story about AI is very retarded. Ukr had many friendly fire events, constantly and with heavy losses. Latest big one was 1-2 weeks ago. Posted by: rk | Oct 6 2022 15:14 utc | 19 Russia is ready to stop the special military operation to protect Donbass on its own terms. At the same time, the territories that have become part of the Russian Federation can no longer be the subject of negotiations with Ukraine, said Valentina Matvienko, speaker of the Federation Council, on October 6.
Posted by: Paulg | Oct 6 2022 15:17 utc | 20 @ young | Oct 6 2022 14:51 utc | 8 who wrote Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 6 2022 15:17 utc | 21 The term AI is a marketing/investment tool. It’s all machine-learning. Doesn’t mean it’s not processing/analyzing tons of data points and providing ‘solutions’ to ‘problems’, but it doesn’t have a thought in its virtual head. Posted by: gottlieb | Oct 6 2022 15:20 utc | 22 Zely just demanded from the “West” pre-emptive nuclear strikes on Russia Posted by: rk | Oct 6 2022 15:24 utc | 23 The AI theory is pretty flawed. Posted by: Orgel | Oct 6 2022 15:27 utc | 24 @gottlieb | Oct 6 2022 15:20 utc | 22
Yes, “AI” is a term designed to bamboozle those who don’t know, i.e. 99%. There is no intelligence there. Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 6 2022 15:33 utc | 25 Posted by: Down South | Oct 6 2022 14:37 utc | 5 Posted by: English Outsider | Oct 6 2022 15:41 utc | 26 @All comments about “AI”. Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Oct 6 2022 15:42 utc | 27 Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 6 2022 15:17 utc | 21 Posted by: snake | Oct 6 2022 15:43 utc | 28
That theory doesn’t really square with what is happening as we see repeatedly the same thing happening: Posted by: Tbx | Oct 6 2022 15:43 utc | 29 Ukrainian forces strike Energodar coastline with over 20 strikes from M777, hitting city’s industrial zone and near power plant. Posted by: rk | Oct 6 2022 15:49 utc | 30 AI is not that useful for a constantly changing battle field or where there are no rules. If I want to identify plants, bad fruit or skin cancer, I can train the AI to identify images. None of these things (plants, fruits) are trying to hide themselves, nor mess with me. If they were constantly changing or interfering with the observer, it wouldn’t work at all. Posted by: PP | Oct 6 2022 15:50 utc | 31 Has anyone posted this yet? A really shrewd assessment of the state of the hostilities by Bhadrakumar, who really knows the politics involved. The EU is kaput. That alone is an immense boost for multipolarity. And while Europe descends into economic chaos, its people may reflect that, right now the USA is selling them LNG at 5 times what it costs in America and at prices degrees of magnitude greater than the Gazprom guaranteed prices it rejected about 18 months ago. Posted by: bevin | Oct 6 2022 15:58 utc | 32 reply to 29 Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 6 2022 15:59 utc | 33 Seems to we’re seeing an exercise in “who commits forces last” in an effort to get an intelligence jump on the other side. Posted by: Dave_k | Oct 6 2022 16:01 utc | 34 @3 Such an important statement deserves a link… Posted by: dh | Oct 6 2022 16:02 utc | 35 Posted by: Comandante | Oct 6 2022 15:13 utc | 18
This is nonsense. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 6 2022 16:06 utc | 37 Posted by: Down South | Oct 6 2022 14:24 utc | 1
Can their a.i minimise casualties? Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 6 2022 16:08 utc | 38 Indeed, what is the criterion of “winning” this war? I think the Russian strategy takes into account the fact or at least probability that the West is hellbent on nuking the whole country and then the entire planet. Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 6 2022 16:15 utc | 39 OT Posted by: jonku | Oct 6 2022 16:23 utc | 40 On a meta level, PCR actually mentioning ziocons by name is a big step. Posted by: B9k9 | Oct 6 2022 16:24 utc | 41 Russia is now hitting the supply line to the”captured territory” of Lyman. Hard. If you look at a map that one road leading to the “successfully captured ” Lyman is another Duck shooting invitation. But hey, you cannot expect a “military expert” to look at a map. Or know “captured territory” has to be supplied. Posted by: Franz Beckenbauer | Oct 6 2022 16:29 utc | 42 Gonna call BS on the AI bit as well… Battlefield awareness is all about detection. Recon, surveillance, observation. These things can be done with various instruments, satellites, UAVs binoculars, the human eye etc. Sure observational data can be fed in Hal The SuperComputer, but do you really need an “AI” to tell you to attack the weakest point on the line? It aint fuggin rocket surgery. Posted by: Chevrus | Oct 6 2022 16:31 utc | 43 A repost from RT/Unz Review: “The permanent US national security state has been absolutely corrupted by absolute power. When the Cold War ended and the US emerged as a unipolar hegemon, the managers of empire started to believe “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality.” That’s hubris at best, psychosis at worst. They started to think they could get away with just about anything. … Posted by: cerena | Oct 6 2022 16:32 utc | 44 People seem to be misundertandimg the term AI. AI is not a supercomputer that will fight the war for you. This is not hollywood. Its a cluster of processors that are trained with millions(billions) of data points over time. A data point could be anything. Temperature, season, location, air pressure, etc. Its already been proven to obtain optimal solutions at record times. This is already a fact. Posted by: Comandante | Oct 6 2022 16:44 utc | 45 According to the Meme Scream Media, Russian losses are irreversible and Putin will use nukes any day now. Hysteria, it’s what’s for dinner. Posted by: Immaculate deception | Oct 6 2022 16:46 utc | 46 An AI system is only as good as the training data that was used. It excels at classifying, but can’t explain the results. The systems that beat chess and Go champions were trained using thousands of games, first historical, then played against human players, then against itself. Google uses uploaded pictures of known things to train their image search. For this to be a wonder-weapon on the battlefield, two things would have to exist: a set of training data and reliable real-time intelligence. There is no magic, it is just a distilled-down version of the training data. Posted by: ian | Oct 6 2022 16:49 utc | 47 wagelaborer @17– https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Hkep-HZXc Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 6 2022 16:53 utc | 49 @37, @ 42 your commens are nonsense,first AI is not machine learning, righ.Nevertherless the quote from from Slavyangrad leads to a wrong discussion, Slavyangrad is a clueless pro russian propaganda troll. Posted by: public disorder | Oct 6 2022 16:58 utc | 50 I offer this to explain the western cartel of nation states fears, but as powerful as they are, they don’t have control over what is going to happen.. they are basically helpless because of privatization to stop this divide and decentralization of governments and leveling in size and capacity of nation state power that is happening. DAVOS and WEF here we come. Next Odessa… I don’t think it is Russia’s interests to do so. It is the Portland or San Francisco of Ukraine and would cause more 5th Column headaches than it is worth. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Oct 6 2022 17:02 utc | 52 Mercouris also said the Ukies are concentrating their troops and operations in the east to keep the Ruskies so busy thay don’t take Odessa. Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 6 2022 17:05 utc | 53 Maria Zakharova again gives the UNSG a black eye over his Ukraine position:
Posted by: Dave_k | Oct 6 2022 16:01 er | 34 Posted by: Cortes | Oct 6 2022 17:09 utc | 55 Well, I guess this is Ukraine related. But funny. Posted by: Erelis | Oct 6 2022 17:09 utc | 56 Posted by: Down South | Oct 6 2022 14:24 utc | 1 Posted by: Helmuth von Moltke | Oct 6 2022 17:10 utc | 57 The only thing Russia is doing now, is playing with her pray like a cat with a mouse. The result is the same but the feline gets her joy. Posted by: Poison Frogs | Oct 6 2022 17:21 utc | 58 The western “leaders” should listen to people like Valentina Matvienko, the speaker of the Federation Council. She is much more than Pelosi, or Harris of the US. Posted by: Paulg | Oct 6 2022 17:22 utc | 59 @ Acco Hengst | Oct 6 2022 20:34 utc | 58 Posted by: Poison Frogs | Oct 6 2022 17:26 utc | 60 Posted by: Opport Knocks | Oct 6 2022 17:02 utc | 51 Posted by: Paco | Oct 6 2022 17:27 utc | 61 Polish President announced that Poland wants to take part in the US nuclear sharing program. Posted by: rk | Oct 6 2022 17:29 utc | 62 I’ve found MoA to be a very valuable resource on the conflict in Ukraine. There is wheat and chaff, but it’s not difficult to do the winnowing. Particularly helpful to me are posts with reliable information (not just opinion or speculation) and links to informed commentary. Posted by: SFBlackrobe | Oct 6 2022 17:30 utc | 63 Zakharova gave her weekly briefing today and said the following about Ukraine. All emphasis mine:
The bolded text reflects Russian POV, which is likely held by the vast majority of Russians, the next to last paragraph especially. The reminder midway about the public statements by the Outlaw US Empire of its goal to kill as many Russians as possible followed by the aim to “flood the region with blood” using worthless dollars as its tool is a hybrid truth-propaganda point aimed at the domestic audience. So I’m reading the article that b posted @ 16. I started today hot tempered and so my view on what I read is likely skewed – but. Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 6 2022 17:39 utc | 65 karlofi @63 Posted by: bevin | Oct 6 2022 17:45 utc | 66 Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 6 2022 20:34 utc | 63 Posted by: Opport Knocks | Oct 6 2022 17:46 utc | 67 Reuters is continuing its reporting on Russia bombing an entire apartment block. Its initial reporting said one person was killed and now they are reporting that 3 are dead…..in the whole apartment block. Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 6 2022 17:48 utc | 68 @#62 Posted by: LastLaugh | Oct 6 2022 17:53 utc | 69 Posted by: young | Oct 6 2022 14:51 utc | 8 Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 6 2022 18:05 utc | 70 Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 6 2022 15:11 utc Posted by: Brother Ma | Oct 6 2022 18:06 utc | 71 Is rhetoric being used to prep Russians for direct war with the Anglos? Looks like it to me, Posted by: rk | Oct 6 2022 18:08 utc | 72 I must say the mood seems very confident this afternoon, where are all the trolls? Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 6 2022 18:12 utc | 73 The Constitution with the liberated territories within the Russian Federation has been published today. You can see the new four territories in pages 22 and 23 of the Constitution. Posted by: Paulg | Oct 6 2022 18:13 utc | 74 Posted by: SFBlackrobe | Oct 6 2022 17:30 utc | 62 Looks like Luka has more brains than dumbos from General Staff. Posted by: rk | Oct 6 2022 18:16 utc | 76 But seriously… Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 6 2022 18:20 utc | 77 Posted by: Paulg | Oct 6 2022 15:17 utc | 20 Posted by: Herr Ringbone | Oct 6 2022 18:24 utc | 78 Posted by: Tbx | Oct 6 2022 15:03 utc | 14 Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 6 2022 18:28 utc | 79 Zelensky has asked Nato to carry out preemptive nuclear strikes on Russia, he is losing it… Posted by: Nico | Oct 6 2022 18:29 utc | 80 @ SFBlackrobe | Oct 6 2022 17:30 utc | 62 Posted by: whirlX | Oct 6 2022 18:39 utc | 81 Based on all the activity on Telegram, I am pretty sure that something really big will happen within a week. Posted by: Nico | Oct 6 2022 18:39 utc | 82 @ SFBlackrobe | Oct 6 2022 17:30 utc | 62 Posted by: dfg | Oct 6 2022 18:41 utc | 83 >> according to which Nato and Ukraine are Posted by: dfg | Oct 6 2022 18:44 utc | 84 Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 6 2022 15:11 utc | 17 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 6 2022 18:47 utc | 85 From the guy who will probably get the next Nobel Peace Prize, Zelensky, is asking for a “pre-emptive nuclear strike” to tell “the Russians so they know what it would be like if they use nuclear weapons“. Posted by: Stonebird | Oct 6 2022 18:47 utc | 86 why Chinese troops (officers) do not use this Ukrainian conflict as an opportunity to gain combat experience? Posted by: rk | Oct 6 2022 18:53 utc | 87 «”An example – the Ukrainian generals did not accept the plan for a counter-offensive at Kharkov, they were against it. The handlers insisted on the plan” Posted by: Blissex | Oct 6 2022 18:54 utc | 88 With Putin having announced that all the Russian soldiers whose contracts expired would be taken off the battle field and returned back to the homeland, the question arises about proportion of the experienced fighters that are left to conduct military operations. Posted by: chet380 | Oct 6 2022 18:56 utc | 90 I make no pretence to any sort of expertise but I can’t help think of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a sort of Samsonian jujitsu move against Germany and the wider EU. To wit, a potential Kamikaze move to get back at Germany for its perfidy and hypocrisy in light of the fact that Russia (under Gorbachev) played a fundamental role in the reunification of Germany, i.e. in its literal integrity, from which stems the combined politico-economic might of the whole, and which in turn accounts for whatever exponential instrumentalization the EU itself might serve on the wider global stage. Posted by: Menelaus | Oct 6 2022 18:56 utc | 91 People’s Artist of Russia and leader of the Lyube group Nikolai Rastorguev commented on the EU sanctions imposed against him. Posted by: Paulg | Oct 6 2022 18:59 utc | 92 Posted by: veto | Oct 6 2022 14:34 utc | 4 Posted by: Molok | Oct 6 2022 19:00 utc | 93 now since I said it like heidegger last time now like scarlet Posted by: Macpott | Oct 6 2022 19:01 utc | 94 *IF* — odds unknown — the klepto west blames Russia for a nuke (especially if it’s used to nuke Russian forces), what are the odds then that: Posted by: dfg | Oct 6 2022 19:01 utc | 95 Is there any convincing way to debunk a claim that the nord stream bombing is Putin’s false flag intended to turn Europe against USA? Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 6 2022 19:02 utc | 96 Interesting. Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Oct 6 2022 19:03 utc | 97 Stonebird | Oct 6 2022 18:47 utc | 85 “Zelensky has flipped his lid, or he is shit scared. The one thing to watch out for is if there are ALREADY US nukes in Ukraine (Tactical ones).” Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2022 19:05 utc | 98 Zelensky called for Nato first strike nuke Russia. Yeah, just confirms the thesis about Ukraine winning magnificently. Posted by: unimperator | Oct 6 2022 19:08 utc | 99 Very interesting comments and discussion about ML / AI. Posted by: Thor Odinson | Oct 6 2022 19:10 utc | 100 |
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