The 'Progressives' In Congress Are Useless Wimps
Progressives urge Biden to push harder for Ukraine peace talks - 10/24/22 3:47 PM ET - The Hill
Thirty progressive House lawmakers wrote a letter to President Biden on Monday urging him to consider directly engaging with Russia and to become more assertive in negotiating a cease-fire in Ukraine.
...
All 30 signatories have voted for more than $50 billion in various forms of assistance to Ukraine since Russia’s invasion and in the letter expressed no regrets for doing so, tying the aid to Ukrainian military successes.
...
“We are under no illusions regarding the difficulties involved in engaging Russia given its outrageous and illegal invasion of Ukraine and its decision to make additional illegal annexations of Ukrainian territory,” they wrote. “However, if there is a way to end the war while preserving a free and independent Ukraine, it is America’s responsibility to pursue every diplomatic avenue to support such a solution that is acceptable to the people of Ukraine.”
Progressive Caucus tries to clarify call for Biden to find diplomatic solution to Ukraine - 10/24/22 8:43 PM ET - The Hill
The Congressional Progressive Caucus on Monday evening sought to couch a statement from earlier in the day requesting that President Biden shift his administration’s policies on Ukraine and start some form of negotiations with Russia.
...
“Let me be clear: we are united as Democrats in our unequivocal commitment to supporting Ukraine in their fight for their democracy and freedom in the face of the illegal and outrageous Russian invasion, and nothing in the letter advocates for a change in that support,” [Congressional Progressive Caucus Chairwoman Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.)] added.
Progressives worked over the summer to get nearly three dozen House Democrats to sign off on a letter that would call into question President Biden’s handling of Ukraine and urge him to engage diplomatically with Russia, according to two sources directly familiar with the negotiations.
...
“They waited to get about 30 and released,” one source texted The Hill on Tuesday morning, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive internal negotiations. “Didn’t consider election timing.”A House aide said the letter was “circulated for signatures” in June. “We aren’t sure why it was released now.”
Progressive Caucus withdraws letter on Ukraine strategy amid blowback - 10/25/22 1:03 PM ET - The Hill
“The Congressional Progressive Caucus hereby withdraws its recent letter to the White House regarding Ukraine,” Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), the caucus chairwoman, wrote in a statement, representing a stunning shift in their call for a diplomatic push to end the Russia-Ukraine war.“The letter was drafted several months ago, but unfortunately was released by staff without vetting. As Chair of the Caucus, I accept responsibility for this,” Jayapal wrote.
An ex-Hill staffer who worked closely with a top progressive Democrat says there's no chance she didn't vet the controversial Ukraine letter. 'She keeps a tight grip on media relations' - 10/25/22 3:10 PM ET - Business Insider
Congressional Progressive Caucus Chair Pramila Jayapal withdrew a controversial letter to President Joe Biden on Ukraine, saying it was drafted months ago and "unfortunately was released by staff without vetting."But a former Hill staffer who worked closely with her office called the idea "absurd" that a release left her office without her approval.
...
A current senior Democratic aide familiar with her office operations also told Insider, "There is no way that Pramila Jayapal doesn't know every word that leaves her office."
Progressives go on damage control after Ukraine diplomacy letter - 10/25/22 5:04 PM ET - The Hill
Few progressives on Tuesday were willing to defend Jayapal or the Progressive Caucus’s messages, particularly as they shifted over the past two days.Rep. Madeleine Dean (D-Pa.), in an interview with Andrea Mitchell on MSNBC, noted that while she was a progressive, she was not a signatory to the letter. She deflected a question about whether sending it had been a mistake.
Others privately took shots at Jayapal, arguing the misstep was part of a broader problem.
Posted by b on October 26, 2022 at 10:24 UTC | Permalink
next page »Yep, that was absolutely pathetic. Good thing that America is a democracy and voters will soon be able to express their outrage, by voting in the only other team of fraudsters who will do the exact same as the Dems on 99% of policy, except maybe sex change laws affecting less than 0.0001% of the population and other non-issues.
In other news, not content with 'dirty bomb' threats and a war with no end in sight, we can now also rejoice at the thought on both NATO and Russia running Nuclear Exercises concurrently!
https://www.rt.com/news/565342-russia-nuclear-drills-pentagon/
What could possible go wrong..
Posted by: Et Tu | Oct 26 2022 10:31 utc | 2
Thanks, b. There are no Nazis in Ukraine. So. No explanation for this reversal by these representatives acting in their own interest (and how ‘ out that flu-like illness keeping all those kids out of class in Virginia?)
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 26 2022 10:42 utc | 3
Paul Greenwood @ 1
Maybe their voters will only notice the sending off the letter not the withdrawal.........should help them save their seats
That was my first thought, wouldn't be surprised if the first letter and withdrawal were written at the same time. Letter probably made the headlines withdrawal wound up on page 50, old trick. The entire "left" of the DNC whatever their inclinations enjoy riding the gravy train just like the rest of the DNC creeps and is why they are allowed in office, that and to keep a fair face on the otherwise heinous, unappealing, hermetic institution the DNC has become. And, yes when the GOP wins things will only get worse, they always do. The Overton window thing and part of the kayfabe.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 26 2022 10:47 utc | 4
If this incident of the letter were not for real, it would be situation comedy farce. A letter signed by 30 so-called progressive Democrats is released by the staff of the lead signatory who doesn't appear to know what her staff are doing, and all 30 signatories try to put as much distance between themselves and the letter after its "release" or leak. And what is the topic of the letter? Asking POTUS to seek a diplomatic solution to Russia's special military operation in Ukraine!
Comedy scriptwriters in Hollywood must be kicking themselves they didn't dream that scenario up first.
Posted by: Jen | Oct 26 2022 10:49 utc | 5
Perfectly typical scam of these fake-political performance artists. Many years ago I used to think the "progressives" were the biggest losers in US politics, but I've long since learned they're the most worthless scammers. (With "Bernie" the biggest con-man of them all.)
Their job is to keep anyone who's thinking of leaving the Dembot sheepfold in order to look for leftward pastures to stay in the fold. (Of course the vast majority of rank-and-file "progressives" also are virtue-signaling frauds who really approve of everything the mainline Democrat Party does.)
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Oct 26 2022 11:02 utc | 6
Any of these "Progressives" in Red/Purple/Competitive Districts and could be turfed out of Congress for their cowardice?
Posted by: Julian | Oct 26 2022 11:24 utc | 7
Caitlin Johnstone agrees in this new column.
But, as I posted there, some of us in the US have a bit of an alternative on our ballots:
https://www.gp.org/ukraine_war
John Anthony La Pietra, co-chair (male)
Green Party of Michigan
Posted by: jalp | Oct 26 2022 11:32 utc | 8
In an oligarchy how is one supposed to believe in the value of one's vote?
And if this is an oligarchy, why do good honest souls insist on calling it democracy?
Can this be the exception to the rule: one cannot serve two masters? Silly humans.
Posted by: steve kelly | Oct 26 2022 12:14 utc | 9
As someone who's voted as a Democrat until relatively recently, I think it's funny that the Party has all of a sudden developed the message unity of Iraq-era Bush II Republicans. The Party has been completely inept at passing any kind of substantial progressive policy for DECADES, yet when the military industrial complex is sitting on their backs, they're able to ruthlessly squash the tiniest mouse-squeak against nuclear armageddon.
Posted by: Bosko | Oct 26 2022 12:26 utc | 10
So now it is illegal to suggest diplomacy.
I get disagreeing with them but shaming them into submission does not bode well for 'democracy'. BTW Caitlin Johnstone is the anti-war version of 'The Onion'. Her headlines are blunt, honest and even humorous.
Some examples... "Always Opposing The Last War But Not The Current One",
"The Profoundly Stupid Narrative That Nuclear Brinkmanship Is Safety And De-Escalation Is Danger",
"A Good And Righteous Proxy War Wouldn’t Need Such Cartoonish PR"
NYT article, 'Biden's cautious foreign policy imperiling the U.S.' - "I’m Sorry, Biden’s *WHAT* Foreign Policy??"
"US Lawmakers Say Student Loan Forgiveness Will Hurt Military Recruiting"
Posted by: Christian Chuba | Oct 26 2022 12:29 utc | 11
These politicians are only good at gang bullying. When push comes to shove, they all wither to wimps.
Swedish "sensitive" NS1 &2 investigation, Germany NS 1&2 "national security" self-imposed hush, all signs of a school yard hoodlum mentality.
All mouths, no backbones.
Posted by: KitaySupporter | Oct 26 2022 12:35 utc | 12
I hope that these shenanigans prove, finally, that the Democratic Party "progressives" (pwogwessives as the late Alex Cockburn labelled them) are frauds to the man and woman. Having said that the US political system is NOT a democracy but a republic designed to balance oligarchs/aristocrats (the choice is theirs) against the hoi polloi with the system highly weighted towards the former. The "peoples house" is now what I all a "bribery factory" and nothing more even if individual members of that house may have gone into the game with high hopes of doing some good. At any rate a representative "democracy" is no real democracy but a vague simulation that in theory should "work" but in fact works ONLY for the aristocrats/oligarchs.
The only chance North Americans have to create a decent society is to get the government out of their lives as much as possible and count on the kindness of the aristocrats/oligarchs (the choice of which to be is theirs--we have no real input in the political game). The illusion of democracy is maintained by the centrally controlled corporate media who assault us with propaganda and lies such that the vast majority of American have not even the slightest clue of not only what is going on in the rest of the world (very obvious) but no idea what is going on in the country whether on the federal or local level. There are exceptions--some of us dissidents have seen the truth because we value truth--but most people in their public and personal lives have no interest in truth.
Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Oct 26 2022 12:50 utc | 13
The only logical action US voters should consider is mass abstention. Both parties have nothing to offer except war. A vote for Democrats is a vote for war. A vote for Republicans is a vote for war. Neither party wants to serve our needs: healthcare and education, jobs and an end to aggressive imperialist wars that have nothing to do with "defense" of national interests. Our national interests are humanitarian, not market shares of Raytheon, Boeing, et al. A vote for either party is a vote for nuclear war with a Biden or Trump cowering in a bunker, deep below the White House.
We workers have to take responsibility for our inaction. We have to take responsibility for being politically lazy and letting others act in our name. If the politicians of both parties were really concerned with our economic security, then why don't we have it? We are involved in a very complex class war. We've been under attack for many years. It makes little sense that there's been little or no response. And what response there is, is always defensive. It doesn't make sense - we are the majority. They need us, but we don't need them. We are the source of all wealth, not them. The only thing preventing us from realizing our humanitarian potential is our inability to not only counter their attack upon us, but to acknowledge that we're under attack! The class war is real and it's time that we recognize it's a war - the alternative is too horrendous to consider, eh?
Posted by: zeke2u | Oct 26 2022 12:51 utc | 14
steve kelly | Oct 26 2022 12:14 utc | 11
You're supposed to believe that, by elevating them above you, you have made them more moral beings and rationalized their rule over you.
Elections make sense only from an anthropological perspective, as of the same stuff as any other shitty tribe's noble melodramas of social creation, realized in the medium of mass industry and imperialist authoritarian religion.
In the early 19th century they started using the word "democracy" for republicanism because people demanded the actual thing and were satisficed with the word and the promise. Source: Walter Karp, Indispensable Enemies: The Politics of Misrule in America
Chris Cosmos | Oct 26 2022 12:50 utc | 17
Boot-gargling neoreactionaries aren't "dissidents", they're child princelings competing to reproduce their infantile, idealist selves by forcing others to imitate their identity. You're a dissident when you actually dissent from the idea of totalitarian rule by anyone or anything, not just one kind of idpol.
Posted by: sippy the shot glass | Oct 26 2022 13:12 utc | 15
Re: Posted by: Julian | Oct 26 2022 11:24 utc | 7
Since I asked about these "Wimpy" Dems - I thought I'd do the ground work and see who they are.
Only FOUR have a margin of less than D +10.
Of those FOUR - only ONE is standing again this year - against a Retired Navy Seal! (I wonder what Ed thinks about Ukraine...)
Congressional Progressive Caucus (16 Women & 14 Men)
Peter DeFazio (R +1) (Oregon-04) – RETIRING.
Marie Newman (D +6) (Illinois-03) – ELIMINATED IN PRIMARY AFTER REDISTRICTING.
Chellie Pingree (D +8) (Maine-01) vs. Ed Thelander (R) – Retired Navy Seal.
Mondaire Jones (D +9) (New York-17) – ELIMINATED IN PRIMARY AFTER REDISTRICTING.
Only THREE more have a margin between D +10 to D +15.
Looking at these races, I frankly doubt any of the Republicans here are a serious shot - perhaps Angela in Indiana is a shot.
Andre Carson (D +11) (Indiana-07) vs. Angela Grabovsky (R) – Financial Advisor.
Mark Takano (D +12) (California-41) vs. Aja Smith (R) – Small Business Owner in California-39.
Raul Grijalva (D +13) (Arizona-03) vs. Luis Pozzollo (R) – Small Business Owner in Arizona-07.
Only FIVE more have a margin between D +15 to D +20.
Looking at these races I'd doubt any of these Republicans could get up.
Bonnie Watson Coleman (D +16) (New Jersey-12) vs. Darius Mayfield (R).
Jamie Raskin (D +17) (Maryland-08) vs. Gregory Coll (R).
Sara Jacobs (D +17) (California-53) vs. Stan Caplan (R) – Small Business Owner in California-51.
Mark Pocan (D +18) (Wisconsin-02) vs. Erik Olsen (R) – Attorney.
Alma S. Adams (D +19) (North Carolina-12) vs. Tyler Lee (R) – Real Estate Investor.
The majority of EIGHTEEN of these 30 have very solid margins of well over D +20!!!
Including THE PATHETIC SQUAD
Earl Blumenauer (D +24) (Oregon-03)
Mark DeSaulnier (D +24) (California-11)
Ro Khanna (D +24) (California-17)
Gwen S. Moore (D +25) (Wisconsin-04)
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D +25) (New York-14)
Jamaal Bowman (D +25) (New York-16)
Sheila Jackson Lee (D +26) (Texas-18)
Henry “Hank” Johnson (D +27) (Georgia-04)
Cori Bush (D +29) (Missouri-01)
Ilhan Omar (D +29) (Minnesota-05)
Rashida Tlaib (D +29) (Michigan-13)
Yvette D. Clarke (D +32) (New York-09)
Jesus Garcia (D +33) (Illinois-04)
Nydia M. Velazquez (D +34) (New York-07)
Donald M. Payne (D +34) (New Jersey-20)
Ayanna Presley (D +35) (Massachusetts-07)
Pramila Jayapal (D +36) (Washington-07)
Barbara Lee (D +40) (California-13)
So, all-in-all - only a couple of races to keep an eye on here in Maine-01 (Chellie vs. Ed) & Indiana-07 (Andre vs. Angela)!
Posted by: Julian | Oct 26 2022 13:24 utc | 16
These progressives are no worse than any others in Congress. The best one can hope from elected officials is they vote the right way. Expecting actual leadership is folly. It's the people who need to stop being lazy cause change always starts from outside the beltway. Heck you can take it all the way back to the Founding Fathers, all of whom had their worst moments as politicians. Jefferson was a backstabber, Adams pushed the Sedition Act, Madison punted on slavery and Washington - his greatest act was quitting.
Posted by: GS | Oct 26 2022 13:30 utc | 17
The Democratic party line regarding negotiations has been 'we have to let Mr. Zelensky decide if and when to negotiate with Russia.' Considering that Mr. Zelensky is the US's lap dog, and Ukraine is a client state of the US, that's pretty laughable. What the so-called progressive caucus did with this letter was acknowledge that the US calls the shots and Ukraine is just its proxy in a war with Russia. Time for the party establishment to whackamole that little screwup back underground.
Posted by: Mike R | Oct 26 2022 13:52 utc | 18
B. is right that U.S. progressives are terrible.
What happened to America? Remember when we had an anti-war left ? And a counter-culture?
Posted by: GoFast | Oct 26 2022 14:10 utc | 19
Any calls for diplomacy or negotiation are meaningless fluff at this point. The minimum that each side requires of the other, the other would regard as total capitulation. Such capitulation is not going to happen without a clear cut military victory. Economic pain alone is not going to make it happen. One military is going to have to kick the butt of the other military, physically seize territory including the relevant major cities, and impose their will on the other side.
Posted by: Mike314159 | Oct 26 2022 14:10 utc | 20
I love the flavor of the new Beer: Progresive Lite.
Posted by: CommonGood | Oct 26 2022 14:12 utc | 21
At this point it is plain silliness to be drawn into American monopoly two-party politics. But there you go; the true epidemic is one of foolishness to participate in absolute fraud which is the American electoral system.
Posted by: gottlieb | Oct 26 2022 14:17 utc | 22
@20 GoFast
funny you should mention that, it was the right: Wall Street and the bankers who were against the war in Vietnam as they saw it as being financially irresponsible. It was the left, especially the labour unions ranging from construction but especially the labour unions employed in arms industry that supported the war in Vietnam. Michael Hudson has spoken quite a bit about this particular and peculiar phenomena.
Posted by: leaf | Oct 26 2022 14:19 utc | 23
It’s important to remember to look at the data. Only a very small proportion of the populace considers this proxy war as a priority for the country.
What we are experiencing is an echo chamber of a group of elites talking to themselves. Most people also consider MSM as one of the most dangerous institutions in the country.
During the invasion of Iraq 70% of the people were in favor of the genocide, only 30% opposed. This war in comparison has no support. The people have learned.
People on the street talk to each other and agree this war is not worth it. Discussions and opinion of the elites are pretty much ignored. I’d say let them continue their mastrubation, as it is irrelevant, and so are they. The majority of the people have figured this out.
What we are experiencing right now is the same as what happened in the Soviet Union just prior to its collapse.
Posted by: Michael.j | Oct 26 2022 14:26 utc | 24
Zekeu2
Perfect I would really like to borrow liberally from your post to send a letter to our local nonprofit paper? You summed up just how i see this.
What boggles my brain is how the pretend liberals always give war a pass. Climate? Who do they think is the largest polluter in the world? They are out throwing paint on art, not on the Lear jets of the Uber rich. They are trying to convince my city not to use Nat.gas in any new homes. But no a word about the 20thousand square foot mansions going up? Or the fact in this college town every student has a car!!!!!!!! No what I figured out with all these groups is everything is about feeling good. BLM signs, Ukraine signs, the occasional march. Of course voting for D or R because they will fix something . They then can pretend they are part of the fix, and go back to the winery for another glass
Posted by: Susan | Oct 26 2022 14:45 utc | 25
there is nothing progressive in the use of this word here... better to call it the regressive arm of the dem party... and the fact is the dems and repubs are 2 sides of the war party... all of them are down with war 24-7...
american politics are a bad joke..canada isn't much different.. the whole thing is quite depressing.. biden is a fitting president as the usa heads off towards oblivion..
Posted by: james | Oct 26 2022 15:20 utc | 26
Everyone needs to understand that this war in Ukraine is just a giant graft! So was Afganistan $2T! Who do you think got that money. The west hope is that it will just remain a graft for them. The fact that they are trying to steal Russian assets shows what a graft it is. Only problem is this time it will backfire, 85% of the world population is against this and they will be stripped naked infront of the whole world by the end of the Ukraine operations. My humble opinion..
Posted by: Assiem | Oct 26 2022 15:38 utc | 27
GS | Oct 26 2022 13:30 utc | 17
"The best one can hope from elected officials is they vote the right way. Expecting actual leadership is folly."
True, and the right way to vote is always No.
It's pure fantasy for anyone to expect anything "good" from Congress or from any political party for the duration of the empire. The only possible way is for a sufficient number of like-spirited people to form a cultural, spiritual, economic movement completely outside of and where necessary against the system. Only once this movement is fully operational and at speed might the time come to extrude a political party from it, primarily at the local and regional level. As for running candidates for Congress, the only purpose would be to elect grid-lockers and monkey-wrenchers whose job is to assist the extralegal action of the movement.
History proves there's no other way, for as long as a corrupt, tyrannical and depraved system like the US empire remains entrenched. For an excellent case study read Lawrence Goodwyn's The Populist Moment, for the lessons to be learned from the rise, action and political co-optation and destruction of America's 19th century populist movement.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Oct 26 2022 15:45 utc | 28
indian punchline has an article on this same topic today -
US gets a nasty surprise in Ukraine
Posted by: james | Oct 26 2022 15:47 utc | 29
I am curious what carrots they are willing to offer Russia at this point to make peace on anything but Russia's terms? The Western nations have done their worst to Russia that they will ever be willing to do. NATO will not go to war over the Ukraine.
I would imagine Russia will wait till midwinter to see how the Western nations are fairing.
Posted by: Mr. Ed | Oct 26 2022 15:48 utc | 30
BiPolar Duopoly is a helluva drug. The mass formation psychosis in the USA has been going on for a long time, and in 2001 it was kicked into overdrive. Having grown up in the 70's and 80's in the Atlantic NorthEast I have watched it unfold. Once I got a clue, everything began to unravel. My point here is that the citizens of the USA have been steadily ground down such that they willingly farm out their critical thinking to corporations, surrender their wills to false representatives, and continue to become more ignorant of the world around them. There is not much to add due to the excellent posts above. I'll say that these clowns that pretend to care one bit about the people they supposedly represent are for most part shills, charlatans and criminals. Yet they will be on the gravy train for life.
Posted by: Chevrus | Oct 26 2022 15:49 utc | 31
@Mr.Ed-30
I have wondered the same thing. From where I sit, the USA and its vassals have been trying to destroy Russia for quite some time. From the moment the Soviet Union dissolved (and before) the Vultures, Hyenas and Economic HitMen have sought to undermine and corrupt Russia in the hopes of stealing the vast natural resources. Sure this can be debated, but I'd wager that most Russians view the encirclement, proxy wars, sanctions etc as a direct threat to them. That's what matters most, because knowing that one is being threatened with death and destruction is a prime motivator. At this point I doubt Russia is going to just play nice, just because the entities attacking it are feeling the pain.
They poked and poked and now it's biznuss-time.
Posted by: Chevrus | Oct 26 2022 16:05 utc | 32
The letter proves the stupendous level of ignorance existing in Congress about the genuine nature of Ukraine and how it became that way. And Ukraine isn't the only issue where such ignorance rules, although ignorance might be an incorrect descriptive term with willful blindness and not wanting to know the reality being a more accurate assessment. And the situation won't improve after the midterms as current Imperial Policy is bipartisan. What will occur after the midterms is the continuation of the Empire's mismanagement both domestically and internationally that will further increase the public's level of disappointment/disenchantment with a clearly dysfunctional federal government.
@Mr.Ed-30
I have wondered the same thing. From where I sit, the USA and its vassals have been trying to destroy Russia for quite some time. From the moment the Soviet Union dissolved (and before) the Vultures, Hyenas and Economic HitMen have sought to undermine and corrupt Russia in the hopes of stealing the vast natural resources. Sure this can be debated, but I'd wager that most Russians view the encirclement, proxy wars, sanctions etc as a direct threat to them. That's what matters most, because knowing that one is being threatened with death and destruction is a prime motivator. At this point I doubt Russia is going to just play nice, just because the entities attacking it are feeling the pain.
They poked and poked and now it's biznuss-time.
Posted by: Chevrus | Oct 26 2022 16:07 utc | 34
@Mr.Ed-30
I have wondered the same thing. From where I sit, the USA and its vassals have been trying to destroy Russia for quite some time. From the moment the Soviet Union dissolved (and before) the Vultures, Hyenas and Economic HitMen have sought to undermine and corrupt Russia in the hopes of stealing the vast natural resources. Sure this can be debated, but I'd wager that most Russians view the encirclement, proxy wars, sanctions etc as a direct threat to them. That's what matters most, because knowing that one is being threatened with death and destruction is a prime motivator. At this point I doubt Russia is going to just play nice, just because the entities attacking it are feeling the pain.
They poked and poked and now it's biznuss-time.
Posted by: Chevrus | Oct 26 2022 16:08 utc | 35
typepad is messing up... making it hard to know if you have or haven't posted...
Posted by: james | Oct 26 2022 16:09 utc | 36
Absolutely incredible. And f@cked up. Not even the progressive Democrats are anti-war anymore.
What happened to the anti-war movement in the US? It seems to have completely evaporated after the Iraq war.
Now the best we have are the Isolationist Republicans. Better than nothing.
The Democrats are all neocons now.
Sigh… Logical conclusion: The US is one of the most heavily propagandized countries in the world.
Posted by: Anonymous | Oct 26 2022 16:21 utc | 38
PSA: there are no actual progressives in the federal government of the USA. There are however a number of poseurs.
Posted by: nwwoods | Oct 26 2022 16:24 utc | 39
The House has 400 representatives. So 30 is not a lot.
It's no surprise, the US people overwhelmingly support Ukraine on this one.
It is the first "good war" the US has helped fight in 100 years.
Posted by: ThrowsOfWar | Oct 26 2022 16:29 utc | 40
@ Posted by: Anonymous | Oct 26 2022 16:21 utc | 38
I'm American that protested the Iraq war, and support this one. I am not a pacifist. I just think there's good wars and bad wars.
Posted by: ThrowsOfWar | Oct 26 2022 16:33 utc | 41
Anonymous | Oct 26 2022 16:21 utc | 43
"What happened to the anti-war movement in the US? It seems to have completely evaporated after the Iraq war."
It near completely evaporated when Obama took over the imperial wars from Bush, because almost all the "anti-war" demonstrators weren't really anti-war at all but just Dembots that were anti-Bush. They'd previously loved the same wars when they were Clinton's wars, and loved them again when they became Obama's wars. Meanwhile the few bona fide anti-war activists like Cindy Sheehan went overnight from being heroes to villains, when they continued opposing the same wars under Obama.
Of course it's even worse now, as the Demtards have become so rabidly pro-war that they now love the memory of Bush and will support any war under a Republican president as well, while Trump never generated so much hostility for anything he actually did as when he made some tentative, quickly-retracted noises about wanting to pull out of Syria.
Of course these verminous "progressives" don't oppose the Ukraine proxy war, as demonstrated by their rhetoric about "denouncing [non-existent] Russian aggression", they're just cowards that are losing the belly for it as nuclear war becomes ever more likely.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Oct 26 2022 16:35 utc | 42
james | Oct 26 2022 15:20 utc | 26
nwwoods | Oct 26 2022 16:24 utc | 39
"Progressive" still has nothing to do with feelings. It is and has always been the self-identity of the scientific management movement and their desire for a rational, reproducible capitalist social order. Ehrenreich's 1977 paper on the professional-managerial class has the receipts.
Chevrus | Oct 26 2022 15:49 utc | 31
Mass formation has been going on since the Puritans first landed here. The psychosis, an inherent part of Protestantism ("God is working in the world right now!"), is also a natural result of mass formation.
Posted by: sippy the shot glass | Oct 26 2022 16:39 utc | 43
"...because almost all the "anti-war" demonstrators weren't really anti-war at all but just Dembots that were anti-Bush..."
Honestly most Americans supported the Iraq war too, until it failed completely.
Posted by: ThrowsOfWar | Oct 26 2022 16:44 utc | 44
The entire premise of the letter is fantastic. It is a fantasy to believe or to posit that Russia was unprovoked, to deny history, to deny official news stories abt murderous Nazi's and etc from a few years ago. To deny that agreements existed to stop NATO expansion, and on and on.
These progs are rotten in their deceit.
The only hope remains in the ROW.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Oct 26 2022 16:48 utc | 45
Throwsofwar
really
What is it that makes you support this war?
Would it be coups that in stalled Nazis into the highest level of government? Thankyou biden,clinton kagan,blinkin,nuland
The vote by congress to never arm said Nazis, that continently disappeared
Is it that the Nazis burned to death women and children in Crimea?
Or the massive profits you are getting from your stocks in Raytheon Boeing Lockheed Blackrock Chevron? With our throwing vast amounts of weapons to be blown up?
Or is it your crazed hatred for Putin and Xi who care more for their people and have done more for their countries then the money changers in DC?
Or is it that the poverty imposed by washington as forced you to get paid for trolling
Posted by: Susan | Oct 26 2022 16:58 utc | 46
Throwsofwar
really
What is it that makes you support this war?
Would it be coups that in stalled Nazis into the highest level of government? Thankyou biden,clinton kagan,blinkin,nuland
The vote by congress to never arm said Nazis, that continently disappeared
Is it that the Nazis burned to death women and children in Crimea?
Or the massive profits you are getting from your stocks in Raytheon Boeing Lockheed Blackrock Chevron? With our throwing vast amounts of weapons to be blown up?
Or is it your crazed hatred for Putin and Xi who care more for their people and have done more for their countries then the money changers in DC?
Or is it that the poverty imposed by washington as forced you to get paid for trolling
Posted by: Susan | Oct 26 2022 16:58 utc | 47
"...the USA and its vassals have been trying to destroy Russia for quite some time..."
Chevrus@32
They had been trying to destroy Russia for generations before the 1917 Revolution. Since then the campaign has been unrelenting- it is all that there is to US Foreign Policy, apart from supporting corporations abroad.
"I'm American that protested the Iraq war, and support this one. I am not a pacifist. I just think there's good wars and bad wars." ThrowsOfWar@41
I have no wish to be offensive but only an idiot or someone who hasn't been paying attention could conclude that supporting Ukraine in its campaign to eradicate the Russian culture and language which lies at the basis of the Ukraine is a "good war."
Just yesterday the last opposition political party in the Ukraine was banned. The country is being run as a fascist state, calls for genocide are routine, claims that the Ukrainians 'take no prisoners' are as common as postings on the internet of Russian soldiers being tortured and killed.
It may be that you do not understand what is being done under the aegis of NATO and the USA. Alternatively you may be a Nazi who finds the revival of the Hitler era Ukrainian Nationalism, complete with statues to its leaders, men responsible for massacres and atrocities well documented and barely denied, a refreshing return to the values that motivated Operation Barbarossa.
You should leave, either to catch up with the history of this appalling war or to hang your head in shame.
Posted by: bevin | Oct 26 2022 17:05 utc | 48
Hey Susan.
No, those aren't differences. You could write all those exact same lines about the Iraq War.
The Iraq War was different for a lot of actual reasons: the instigator, the casus bellum, the goals, the legality, the outcomes, the troops... But IMO, the single biggest difference is that the Iraqis themselves never wanted our intervention.
They saw us as occupiers, which basically means we can't be "good guys", and can't ever "win" the war. Which is why it fell apart as soon as we left. Same with many other US interventions.
This is entirely different. Ukraine absolutely wants our help, and absolutely wants to fight back themselves.
It's hard to express how different it is when we left Afghanistan, for example, and all the people we armed immediately surrendered.
Posted by: ThrowsOfWar | Oct 26 2022 17:09 utc | 49
As an outsider looking in from the UK, these so-called progressives have always come across as utter frauds to me. They are part of the strategy of decisiveness masquerading as 'diversity'. I think they deliberately try to pit the minority section of the population against the white working class section of the US. Any Democrat that shows a even a shread of decency gets marginalised or bounced right out their party. The treatment of Cynthia McKinney is a good example of what happens to anyone who trys to do the right thing rather than pandering to the degenerate DNC. From what I saw and read of her she seems like a genuinely decent human being. No doubt the placard waiving self-entitled educated morons that make up the bulk of their bovine supporters will be fooled into 'boosting for Bernie' again before, to their feckless sense of surprise, he drops out and gets them to shift their vote to the DNC approved candidate. The supposed 'socialist' candidate who wants to keep billions of your tax dollars being spunked on that seemingly already obsolete (massively overbudget) jet fighter.
Exactly the same in my country where the majority are constantly fooled into chosing between being smacked in the mouth by the blue party, or being booted up the arse by the red party. Anyone who refers to the 'tactical voting' con can go stick it.
Posted by: Terry | Oct 26 2022 17:09 utc | 50
Apologies, my previous comment should have said 'divisiveness'.
Posted by: Terry | Oct 26 2022 17:11 utc | 51
Is it that the Nazis burned to death women and children in Crimea?Posted by: Susan | Oct 26 2022 16:58 utc | 48
Quality emotional rant there, but I believe it was the Trade Union Building fire in Odessa, not Crimea.
Compounded by the fact that the perpetrators were clearly identified via abundant camera footage, but no one ever faced criminal charges.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Oct 26 2022 17:25 utc | 52
The democrats have not learn anything’s from the past , throw money to everyone without any consideration of who needs it or not , you can start with the Covid relief help which gave money to people who do not need it including my mother in law .
Now they are in Ukrain up to their eye balls waisting a huge amount of tax payers money to fight a stupid war instead fixing our roads and bridges and get out of the street the unemployed and homeless people .
They are very ignorant and to say the least are stupid .
I hope they lose the mid term election , I voted for them last time .
And another issue, get the hell out of Syria , they are there illegally and against the international law and they complain about Russia , how ignorant and stupid could be .
Posted by: Bobby | Oct 26 2022 17:28 utc | 53
The Democratic Progressive Caucus is a complete fraud. Its true function is provide cover for the rest of the Democratic Party members in the House to pursue anti-progressive policies. Every so often, someone in the Caucus will make a tough-sounding statement or tweet, and people will get excited, but inevitably, that person will cast a vote with the majority of the party that contravenes their own statement. Caitlin Johnstone has noted that one of the main functions of the Democratic Party is to shield the Republican Party from criticism coming from the left. The same can be said of the relation between the Democratic Progressive Caucus and the Democratic Party.
Posted by: Rob | Oct 26 2022 17:28 utc | 54
The democrats have not learn anything’s from the past , throw money to everyone without any consideration of who needs it or not , you can start with the Covid relief help which gave money to people who do not need it including my mother in law .
Now they are in Ukrain up to their eye balls waisting a huge amount of tax payers money to fight a stupid war instead fixing our roads and bridges and get out of the street the unemployed and homeless people .
They are very ignorant and to say the least are stupid .
I hope they lose the mid term election , I voted for them last time .
And another issue, get the hell out of Syria , they are there illegally and against the international law and they complain about Russia , how ignorant and stupid could be .
Posted by: Bobby | Oct 26 2022 17:29 utc | 55
The Democratic Progressive Caucus is a complete fraud. Its true function is provide cover for the rest of the Democratic Party members in the House to pursue anti-progressive policies. Every so often, someone in the Caucus will make a tough-sounding statement or tweet, and people will get excited, but inevitably, that person will cast a vote with the majority of the party that contravenes their own statement. Caitlin Johnstone has noted that one of the main functions of the Democratic Party is to shield the Republican Party from criticism coming from the left. The same can be said of the relation between the Democratic Progressive Caucus and the Democratic Party.
Posted by: Rob | Oct 26 2022 17:30 utc | 56
Reading Caitlin Johnstone's piece about the bi-partisan war enthusiasm in the US reminds me that, here in Canada, we are way more advanced than our American cousins.
We have a much richer variety of war parties in our legislature (Parliament) than the US does. lol.
Posted by: N Hanrahan | Oct 26 2022 17:35 utc | 57
That bunch posed as left-wing at first, then turned out to be centrist sellouts.
Posted by: Dodrey Dougherton | Oct 26 2022 17:35 utc | 58
Reading Caitlin Johnstone's piece about the bi-partisan war enthusiasm in the US reminds me that, here in Canada, we are way more advanced than our American cousins.
We have a much richer variety of war parties in our legislature (Parliament) than the US does. lol.
Posted by: N Hanrahan | Oct 26 2022 17:37 utc | 59
The Democratic Progressive Caucus is a complete fraud. Its true function is provide cover for the rest of the Democratic Party members in the House to pursue anti-progressive policies. Every so often, someone in the Caucus will make a tough-sounding statement or tweet, and people will get excited, but inevitably, that person will cast a vote with the majority of the party that contravenes their own statement. Caitlin Johnstone has noted that one of the main functions of the Democratic Party is to shield the Republican Party from criticism coming from the left. The same can be said of the relation between the Democratic Progressive Caucus and the Democratic Party.
Posted by: Rob | Oct 26 2022 17:44 utc | 60
The Democratic Progressive Caucus is a complete fraud. Its true function is provide cover for the rest of the Democratic Party members in the House to pursue anti-progressive policies. Every so often, someone in the Caucus will make a tough-sounding statement or tweet, and people will get excited, but inevitably, that person will cast a vote with the majority of the party that contravenes their own statement. Caitlin Johnstone has noted that one of the main functions of the Democratic Party is to shield the Republican Party from criticism coming from the left. The same can be said of the relation between the Democratic Progressive Caucus and the Democratic Party.
Posted by: Rob | Oct 26 2022 17:45 utc | 61
Test post. I'm seeing a lot of dupes here today. Sometimes triplicates. Can't believe TypePad is THAT broken.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 26 2022 17:48 utc | 62
...here in Canada, we are way more advanced than our American cousins.We have a much richer variety of war parties in our legislature (Parliament) than the US does. lol.
Posted by: N Hanrahan | Oct 26 2022 17:37 utc | 59
Canadian political support for this war is due to the large politically active Ukrainian-Canadian population.
I have yet to see a single politician here address the Kyiv regime's opposition to the implementation of Minsk-2. It would have given Eastern Ukraine the same language and culture protection rights as Quebecers have in Canada. Hypocrites all around Ottawa.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Oct 26 2022 17:53 utc | 63
@63
that's true, now I think of it. Despite Trudeau Sr. using martial law to put down some frogs who got a bit too excited, in Canada we now have Catholic school boards, French immersion (i.e. French primary language) education in public schools as an option, a number of supreme court judges that must be from Quebec, bilingual requirements in federal government and perhaps most importantly (and to the great fury of the Western provinces, especially Alberta) Quebec is the biggest recipient of the equilization payments despite them being the second largest and richest province. All to keep the Quebec separatists silent. No such solution was ever recommended for the Ukraine
Posted by: leaf | Oct 26 2022 17:59 utc | 64
Alex Christoforous did a good video on that letter. It appeared to have a lot of talking points the warmongers would agree with. I think he was right in suggesting it was actually written to provide cover so anti-war constituents would stop harassing them. I think AOC had protesters about the war at an event. But if that is the case that's gone now .
Posted by: Simon | Oct 26 2022 18:00 utc | 65
In other words: "ThrowsofWar" = part of the problem.
Posted by: LastLaugh | Oct 26 2022 18:01 utc | 66
Test post. I'm seeing a lot of dupes here today. Sometimes triplicates. Can't believe TypePad is THAT broken.Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 26 2022 17:48 utc | 62
I suspect that is caused by a similar thing that does it on other message board software. The [Post] button is hit and the software doesn't respond back immediately (the browser should have the processing icon at the top). So the person again hits the [Post] button thinking nothing had happened. But in fact the first went through, it was just being processed with a delay. Then the first and second end up getting processed.
Be nice if this site used Disqus but I think it was stated the owner prefers that no one has to login.
Posted by: Simon | Oct 26 2022 18:07 utc | 67
Sorry for my triplicate post above, but when I hit the "post" button, I got the endless spinning wheel and thought that the post had not gone through--three times.
Posted by: Rob | Oct 26 2022 18:08 utc | 68
"I hope that these shenanigans prove, finally, that the Democratic Party "progressives" (pwogwessives as the late Alex Cockburn labelled them) are frauds to the man and woman."
40% of this country will vote for a piece of wood if there's a D behind the name.
I just hope to get out before it's too late.
Posted by: Michigan Dude | Oct 26 2022 18:15 utc | 69
@bevin, 48
Well said bro! Scanning down the list of btl posters, I always read your posts because they're so well above the average quality here, which as you know is pretty good - on average... Solidarity!
Posted by: Rhisiart Gwilym | Oct 26 2022 18:18 utc | 70
Flying Dutchman @42: I don't know who you are, but I've been an antiwar activist for sixty years. I've opposed every war, demonstrated against them, and gone to jail over it. I accept that different people have different commitments to that cause, and don't pass judgment over most of them. People like you sit at your keyboards and hurl general insults at everyone who isn't on exactly the same page you are. The congressional progressives who showed cowardice in this deserve all the condemnation we can throw at them. But the rest of us don't. STFU.
Posted by: Oakland Pete | Oct 26 2022 18:30 utc | 71
Rhisiart Gwilym@72
And I caught up with your flattering remarks when I saw that you had posted!
Best wishes, and to all of yours, from an exile from Cardigan Bay's grandson.
Posted by: bevin | Oct 26 2022 18:30 utc | 72
"Few progressives on Tuesday"
After 9/11, around 2005, I started posting on Alernet, which I thought was a "Progressive" website. I wanted to understand "Left Wing" Americans, and they were very friendly and gracious with me. I was even invited to the USA - California.
Then the Americans voted for "A Democrat from Illinois, Obama took office following a decisive victory over Republican nominee John McCain in the 2008 presidential election."
"On taking office, Obama announced that the U.S. military presence in Afghanistan would be bolstered by 17,000 new troops by Summer 2009"
By the time President Obama came to London, my teenage daughter was in London protesting about him.
Where have all The Progressives gone?
They have got even worse.
Now they have attacked Europe...bombing our energy supplies, and now trying to start off a nuclear World War III, and all the rest of their woke covid and depopulation WEF shit
That is not very Progressive. It is Extremely Humanly Depressive and Destructive.
The USA is now the Cancer of The Earth, brainwashed by The Neocons and The Progressives.
The last decent President you had was JFK.
You Americans are ALL now horrible.
Please take all your American Soldiers Back to the USA.
We don't want them here in the UK, and neither do the rest of us Europeans.
You have attacked us - your "friends"
You are trying to kill us and starve us to death in Europe.
Take it out on yourselves in the USA "Protect each other" in the USA you suicidal lunatics. Please broadcast the blood fest on live TV.
Not wanted here.
The USA is Now The ENEMY
I used to like you.
Tony
Posted by: tonyopmoc | Oct 26 2022 18:44 utc | 73
Honestly most Americans supported the Iraq war too, until it failed completely.
Posted by: ThrowsOfWar | Oct 26 2022 16:44 utc | 44
Perhaps you believe you're being honest, but you're wrong. Right into February, 2003, 70% of Americans opposed invading Iraq without U.N. Security Council approval (which of course never came). Only after the point when our troops were actually engaged did the silly 'support our troops' mantra change that.
Posted by: StirThePot | Oct 26 2022 18:48 utc | 74
'Politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex.'
-- Frank Zappa
Posted by: Steven Starr | Oct 26 2022 18:59 utc | 75
Speaking of useless, I see no mention thus far of feeling the Bern -- how does "the pope of American progressivism" feel about this election-eve embarrassment?
Sanders, who is launching a multi-state midterm campaign swing to help Democrats in tough races, remained committed to supporting Ukraine from “a major power invading and causing mass destruction.” He dismissed the claim from some candidates, and some protesters, who have called progressive members of Congress “war mongers” over their votes to fund Ukraine’s counter-offensive.“Democrats, war mongers?” said Sanders. “When you have Putin breaking all kinds of international laws, unleashing an incredibly disgusting and horrific level of destruction against the people of Ukraine?”
[more]
What a classic! All signs point to an historic wipeout, come November 8. Democrats confront the challenge of motivating voters while boldly standing for nothing... for absolutely nobody. If our reading of the tea leaves is accurate, the first order of business for the new Congress will be impeachment proceedings against Biden's mafia regime.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 26 2022 18:59 utc | 76
Susan | Oct 26 2022 16:58 utc | 47
Thank you Susan, but don't expect that poster to grasp, in the least, that which you highlight. He will obfuscate and ignore as I will any future posts by same.
Posted by: DoesItReallyMatter | Oct 26 2022 18:59 utc | 77
@jalp 8
In the USA, he Green's have no power, and after passage of the Freedom to Vote: John R. Lewis Act (aka The Third-Party Elimination Act) never will have, but if they did, they would be just as owned by the oligarchs and so as belligerent as the other parties in the US. Look at the tub thumping, NATO loving, Russia loathing Green Party of Germany for an example,.and the read this message from the Green Party in the USA, which "condemns in the strongest possible terms the recent attack on Ukraine by the Russian military that has so far caused hundreds of civilian casualties, including children, and forced thousands of Ukrainians to take refuge in Poland and other neighboring countries."
Nothing was said by the Greens anywhere about the Western violations of undertakings to Russia not to expand NATO, about the US initiated and financed coup in the Ukraine in 2014, or about the 14,000 murders by the West appointed Ukrainian governments artillery and rockets hailing down on Russian speaking civilians reported by OSCE, the refusal to honor the Minsk Accords, the threats to position NATO on Russia's borders and develop nuclear weapons or indeed against the stoking of Russiaphobia by the US in the the wake of the blatantly "Trumped up" Russiagate debacle, let alone the Sinophobia drummed up by both parties.
The problem in the US is it's oligarchy and the political system it has constructed and tuned over time. Voting for a fringe group carefully isolated from any real impact and willing to go along with that is not going to change anything. If you want change, think about my proposal, NOTaParty (None Of The above Party) or something like it.
Posted by: Hermit | Oct 26 2022 19:07 utc | 78
@jalp 8
In the USA, he Green's have no power, and after passage of the Freedom to Vote: John R. Lewis Act (aka The Third-Party Elimination Act) never will have, but if they did, they would be just as owned by the oligarchs and so as belligerent as the other parties in the US. Look at the tub thumping, NATO loving, Russia loathing Green Party of Germany for an example,.and the read this message from the Green Party in the USA, which "condemns in the strongest possible terms the recent attack on Ukraine by the Russian military that has so far caused hundreds of civilian casualties, including children, and forced thousands of Ukrainians to take refuge in Poland and other neighboring countries."
Nothing was said by the Greens anywhere about the Western violations of undertakings to Russia not to expand NATO, about the US initiated and financed coup in the Ukraine in 2014, or about the 14,000 murders by the West appointed Ukrainian governments artillery and rockets hailing down on Russian speaking civilians reported by OSCE, the refusal to honor the Minsk Accords, the threats to position NATO on Russia's borders and develop nuclear weapons or indeed against the stoking of Russiaphobia by the US in the the wake of the blatantly "Trumped up" Russiagate debacle, let alone the Sinophobia drummed up by both parties.
The problem in the US is it's oligarchy and the political system it has constructed and tuned over time. Voting for a fringe group carefully isolated from any real impact and willing to go along with that is not going to change anything. If you want change, think about my proposal, NOTaParty (None Of The above Party) or something like it.
Posted by: Hermit | Oct 26 2022 19:09 utc | 79
don't be surprised when A.O.C. helps to direct NYC funds to Trump, Inc. for building the new casinos going up.
like Obama & the product Obamacare, Pentagon lapdog VT Senator Afterbern's song and dance about "healthcare" served one purpose:
to confuse health, healthcare, and healthcare funding.
as long as we all become more diabetic and suicidal, more dependent on the healthcare system, we can argue about how we pay for healthcare until we die. Mission Accomplished, Bern. What a hero. to the insurance and healthcare industries. but that's what we mean when talk about "the economy": finding ways to fuck grandma out of her retirment benefits while putting on a big song and dance about "healthcare".
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Oct 26 2022 19:11 utc | 80
don't be surprised when A.O.C. helps to direct NYC funds to Trump, Inc. for building the new casinos going up.
like Obama & the product Obamacare, Pentagon lapdog VT Senator Afterbern's song and dance about "healthcare" served one purpose:
to confuse health, healthcare, and healthcare funding.
as long as we all become more diabetic and suicidal, more dependent on the healthcare system, we can argue about how we pay for healthcare until we die. Mission Accomplished, Bern. What a hero. to the insurance and healthcare industries. but that's what we mean when talk about "the economy": finding ways to fuck grandma out of her retirment benefits while putting on a big song and dance about "healthcare".
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Oct 26 2022 19:12 utc | 81
@jalp 8
In the USA, he Green's have no power, and after passage of the Freedom to Vote: John R. Lewis Act (aka The Third-Party Elimination Act) by the Democrats apparently tired of having to remove the Green Party and candidates from ballots by underhand means, never will have, but if they did, they would be just as owned by the oligarchs and so as belligerent as the other parties in the US. Look at the tub thumping, NATO loving, Russia loathing Green Party of Germany for an example,.and the read this message from the Green Party in the USA, which "condemns in the strongest possible terms the recent attack on Ukraine by the Russian military that has so far caused hundreds of civilian casualties, including children, and forced thousands of Ukrainians to take refuge in Poland and other neighboring countries."
Nothing was said by the Greens anywhere about the Western violations of undertakings to Russia not to expand NATO, about the US initiated and financed coup in the Ukraine in 2014, or about the 14,000 murders by the West appointed Ukrainian governments artillery and rockets hailing down on Russian speaking civilians reported by OSCE, the refusal to honor the Minsk Accords, the threats to position NATO on Russia's borders and develop nuclear weapons or indeed against the stoking of Russiaphobia by the US in the the wake of the blatantly "Trumped up" Russiagate debacle, let alone the Sinophobia drummed up by both parties.
The problem in the US is it's oligarchy and the political system it has constructed and tuned over time. Voting for a fringe group carefully isolated from any real impact and willing to go along with that is not going to change anything. If you want change, think about my proposal, NOTaParty (None Of The above Party) or something like it.
Posted by: Hermit | Oct 26 2022 19:12 utc | 82
@jalp 8
In the USA, he Green's have no power, and after passage of the Freedom to Vote: John R. Lewis Act (aka The Third-Party Elimination Act) by the Democrats apparently tired of having to remove the Green Party and candidates from ballots by underhand means, never will have, but if they did, they would be just as owned by the oligarchs and so as belligerent as the other parties in the US. Look at the tub thumping, NATO loving, Russia loathing Green Party of Germany for an example,.and the read this message from the Green Party in the USA, which "condemns in the strongest possible terms the recent attack on Ukraine by the Russian military that has so far caused hundreds of civilian casualties, including children, and forced thousands of Ukrainians to take refuge in Poland and other neighboring countries."
Nothing was said by the Greens anywhere about the Western violations of undertakings to Russia not to expand NATO, about the US initiated and financed coup in the Ukraine in 2014, or about the 14,000 murders by the West appointed Ukrainian governments artillery and rockets hailing down on Russian speaking civilians reported by OSCE, the refusal to honor the Minsk Accords, the threats to position NATO on Russia's borders and develop nuclear weapons or indeed against the stoking of Russiaphobia by the US in the the wake of the blatantly "Trumped up" Russiagate debacle, let alone the Sinophobia drummed up by both parties.
The problem in the US is it's oligarchy and the political system it has constructed and tuned over time. Voting for a fringe group carefully isolated from any real impact and willing to go along with that is not going to change anything. If you want change, think about my proposal, NOTaParty (None Of The above Party) or something like it.
Posted by: Hermit | Oct 26 2022 19:12 utc | 83
On the endless spinning wheel--
Refresh the page and see if your comment appears. If not, refresh again. And then try a third time. If it still remains absent, then repaste your comment, preview it, click edit again, then click post and repeat the process. Yes, there's a problem. On another thread, I noted the timestamp being off by almost 8 hours for one comment versus all the rest. The point is, until the glitch is solved, we must be patient in awaiting our comments to be posted--yes, that's annoying, but not as annoying as a thread with 50+ duplicated comments.
@jalp 8
In the USA, he Green's have no power, and after passage of the Freedom to Vote: John R. Lewis Act (aka The Third-Party Elimination Act) by the Democrats apparently tired of having to remove the Green Party and candidates from ballots by underhand means, never will have, but if they did, they would be just as owned by the oligarchs and so as belligerent as the other parties in the US. Look at the tub thumping, NATO loving, Russia loathing Green Party of Germany for an example,.and the read this message from the Green Party in the USA, which "condemns in the strongest possible terms the recent attack on Ukraine by the Russian military that has so far caused hundreds of civilian casualties, including children, and forced thousands of Ukrainians to take refuge in Poland and other neighboring countries."
Nothing was said by the Greens anywhere about the Western violations of undertakings to Russia not to expand NATO, about the US initiated and financed coup in the Ukraine in 2014, or about the 14,000 murders by the West appointed Ukrainian governments artillery and rockets hailing down on Russian speaking civilians reported by OSCE, the refusal to honor the Minsk Accords, the threats to position NATO on Russia's borders and develop nuclear weapons or indeed against the stoking of Russiaphobia by the US in the the wake of the blatantly "Trumped up" Russiagate debacle, let alone the Sinophobia drummed up by both parties.
The problem in the US is it's oligarchy and the political system it has constructed and tuned over time. Voting for a fringe group carefully isolated from any real impact and willing to go along with that is not going to change anything. If you want change, think about my proposal, NOTaParty (None Of The above Party) or something like it.
Posted by: Hermit | Oct 26 2022 19:13 utc | 85
@b please erase all but the last of multiple posting above at 86 and 87. I was receiving a 405 error due to a malformed HREF and thought my response had not posted due to a system error which is why I repeatedly reposted it with minor edits until I finally woke-up to what was happening
Posted by: Hermit | Oct 26 2022 19:18 utc | 86
@karlof1 88
And check all your HREFs and other in-line HTML. Apparently the parser has a conniption and dies before sending confirmation of posting if anything is malformed (e.g. closing an unopened bold, having an extra quote in a URL. Etc.), resulting in a 405, making it seem that your post was not accepted.
Posted by: Hermit | Oct 26 2022 19:24 utc | 87
Thanks 52
I was in a snit and made a few mistakes there. Notice how he never acknowledges that the major economic centers of Ukraine did not want any part of this war, they of course are now Russian. Again he pretends that nazis asking for our help makes us the good guys oh boy america has lost it’s way. I think most likely my last comment was right. Thank you for correcting me.
Posted by: Susan | Oct 26 2022 19:24 utc | 88
Aleph_Null | Oct 26 2022 18:59 utc | 78
I guess I need to amend what I said about Sanders being the arch-conman among "progressives". Evidently he's sick of the con and has openly come out with bared fangs as the neocon imperial warmonger he always was, previously in sheep's clothing.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Oct 26 2022 19:26 utc | 89
"It is the first "good war" the US has helped fight..."
Wrong.
Retards believed every war the US instigated and fought was a "good war" when that war was fresh. This war is exactly the same, and anyone who supports America's actions in it it is just as retarded as those who supported America's wars on Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yugoslavia...
I don't believe the poster "protested" against the US war on Iraq. I never saw him among the few dozen people at any of the protests in the US. The poster is a worthless, lying heap of feces.
And a retard.
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 26 2022 19:28 utc | 90
to avoid double or triple posts from a pc, save it before you post it by copy and paste to folder of your choice.
Then post it once - give it 5,10 mins or whatever depending on both your bandwidth, and maybe the bandwidth, that even the host my be suffering, and possibly drown you too with shit.
Then clear your browser, with something like CCleaner, if you don't know how to do it manually.
Then login again, and copy and paste what you wrote back, and it might work.
If it didn't don't worry about it, and don't try again, cos you might have 6 or 7 posts, waiting in a buffer, which suddenly gets release when the teenage hacker goes for a wee or a pooh or collect his food that his mum has left at his bedroom door. He will be back later to see the mischief he has caused.
Such is life for the kid, who should be outside, playing with friends the same age.
Posted by: tonyopmoc | Oct 26 2022 19:40 utc | 91
Aaron Maté (cited by Caitlin) describes my own sense of amazing sinking:
For progressives, I didn’t think it could get more pathetic than voting for a disastrous proxy war that the US provoked and prolonged, handing billions to arms makers in the process. In retracting their tepid call for diplomacy and blaming staffers for it, they somehow surpassed it.
It's moral limbo for bankrupt US American progressives: How low can you go? Retraction of such anodyne mouthwash reaches a new low-point -- but we get one of those every week.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 26 2022 19:54 utc | 92
«the Trade Union Building fire in Odessa, not Crimea. Compounded by the fact that the perpetrators were clearly identified via abundant camera footage, but no one ever faced criminal charges.»
That was "just" an ordinary fascist massacre, they are a pretty standard occurrence in Ukraine (and elsewhere).
What really started the ukrainian war of aggression against the people of the Donbas was the Mariupol massacre, because I think it was the first time that ukrainian government troops started massacring ukrainian civilians:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/05/10/ukra-m10.html
«10 May 2014
With the open support of Washington and its European allies, the regime installed by Washington and Berlin in last February’s fascist-led putsch is now extending its reign of terror against all popular resistance in Ukraine. That is the significance of the events in the major eastern Ukrainian city of Mariupol yesterday.
After tanks, armoured personnel carriers and heavily armed troops were unleashed on unarmed civilians in the city, the Kiev regime claimed to have killed some 20 people.
The Obama administration immediately blamed the violent repression on “pro-Russian separatists.”»
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas
«3,393 civilians killed (349 in 2016–2021)
13,100–13,300 killed; 29,500–33,500 wounded overall
414,798 Ukrainians internally displaced; 925,500 fled abroad»
An interesting question that many don't ask themselves is why roughly 1/3 of the refugees from Ukraine moved to "Mordor" to be "persecuted" by the "orcs", I mean to the Russian Federation to live among other russian citizens and ukrainian citizens (which were the third largest minority in the Russian Federation even before the Donbas and nearby regions asked to become members of the Russian Federation).
Posted by: Blissex | Oct 26 2022 20:00 utc | 93
It is the first "good war" the US has helped fight in 100 years.Posted by: ThrowsOfWar | Oct 26 2022 16:29 utc | 40
Are you or are you not aware that Ukraine is actively recruiting foreigners of any age, of any background, basically any warm body, to fight this "good war"?
So please, make yourself useful for this "good war"; buy a one way flight to Ukraine, pick up a rifle, dig a trench and face the Russian artillery.
You are being useless in fighting this "good war" by spamming & trolling this website.
Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Oct 26 2022 20:02 utc | 95
I don't believe the poster "protested" against the US war on Iraq. I never saw him among the few dozen people at any of the protests in the US.
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 26 2022 19:28 utc | 94
The most charitable excuse I can think of for the above is that you suffer from advanced senility. On a single day (February 15, 2003) in NYC 100,000 people demonstrated at the U.N. plus similar numbers elsewhere around the city, 50,000 demonstrated in both Los Angeles and Seattle, 10,000 in both Chicago and Austin, and thousands in cities elsewhere around the country. On the following day over 150,000 demonstrated in San Francisco.
Posted by: StirThePot | Oct 26 2022 20:07 utc | 96
tonyopmoc | Oct 26 2022 19:41 utc | 96-95
Your double post on that subject was good for a laugh.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 26 2022 20:08 utc | 97
@Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 26 2022 19:28 utc | 94
lol. I'm hardly unique. Millions of people protested the Iraq war and not this one.
But sure, we're all "retarded" for believing that some fights are worth fighting.
Posted by: ThrowsOfWar | Oct 26 2022 20:13 utc | 98
Millions of people protested the Iraq war and not this one.
But sure, we're all "retarded" for believing that some fights are worth fighting.
Posted by: ThrowsOfWar | Oct 26 2022 20:13 utc | 104
Your first sentence above is regrettably true, which reflects the radical advances in Western propaganda made between the two. Your second is true but in a different sense: being a manipulable sheep does not constitute being 'retarded', merely reflects inattention (though that's not an admirable trait). I too believe that some fights are worth fighting, and thank Russia for doing the heavy lifting in this fight against destructive Western hegemony despite the fact that Western citizens have not proven up to doing the job themselves.
Posted by: StirThePot | Oct 26 2022 20:31 utc | 99
here's something from Greenwald today - both about the progressive letter, and about Sanders and Druss
the US is such a cesspool of corporate corruption, warmongering, lies, bribery, extortion, oligarchical double-dealing & a terribly powerful evil World Empire disguised domestically as a sham 'democracy'
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1585298843658117120
"This debacle with the House Progressive Caucus and their willingness to abase themselves and apologize and crawl and repent -- due to the slightest pressure from the DC Blob over the slightest dissent possible -- is one of the most embarrassing and damaging spectacles in awhile:
If you want to see how DC warps people, look at this behavior from Bernie's very-DC NatSec Advisor, @mattduss
. He first heaped praise on the Ukraine letter. Then when House Progressives recanted and Bernie condemned it, he switched course: bashing it and blaming anti-war "NGOs":
Such a DC tale: Duss got to be Bernie's Foreign Policy Aide by bashing US support for Israel: became a hero to the left.
But as Bernie led leftists back into captivity to Dems - so he could be Finance Comm Chair - Duss is now the person who goes to TNR to bash leftists on war....."
Posted by: michaelj72 | Oct 26 2022 20:32 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Maybe their voters will only notice the sending off the letter not the withdrawal.........should help them save their seats
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Oct 26 2022 10:28 utc | 1