Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 15, 2022

Ukraine SitRep - Hit On Dam Endangers Ukrainian Troops - Russians Defeat More Counterattacks

The BBC continues to misinterpret war news from Ukraine:Ukraine

Ukraine war: Houses flooded after missiles hit major dam

Russian missiles have hit a reservoir dam near the southern Ukrainian city of Kryvyi Rih, officials say.

Residents in some areas were told to evacuate, city head Oleksandr Vilkul said, but he added the situation was under control.

Ukraine said the strike was revenge by Russia for its recent counter-attack.

President Volodymyr Zelensky - who was born in the city - described Russia as a "terrorist state" after the attack on the Karachunivske reservoir.

"You are weaklings who fight civilians," Mr Zelensky said in his late night address on Wednesday. "Scoundrels who, having escaped from the battlefield, are trying to do harm from somewhere far away."

This was an apparent reference to Ukraine's recent military successes in a swift counter-offensive in the country's north-eastern Kharkiv region. It has seen Ukraine's army reclaim swathes of occupied territory, forcing Russian troops to retreat.

In his speech, Mr Zelensky said the reservoir had "no military value at all".

Zelenski is an idiot.

The Ingulet river, which the dam restrained, flows mainly north to south through Kryvyi Rih (Russian spelling: Krivoi Rog, Кривой Рог) to then turn southwest before it ends in the Dnieper.


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On its southwest flowing part it demarcated the border between the Ukrainian and Russian held territory. During the Kherson 'counteroffensive' Ukrainian troops had used pontoon bridges to cross the river and to attack on the southern side. The hopeless attack across bare steppe continued throughout the last days despite huge losses on the Ukrainian side.

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The hit on the dam was not in 'revenge' but will raise the Ingulet river and speed it up. It will wash away those pontoon bridges. The Ukrainian troops south of the river will be without resupplies and more easy to defeat. Or so the Russian's hope ...

Moon of Alabama @MoonofA - 17:58 UTC · Sep 14, 2022
Replying to @chinahand

The Ingulets river that dam was on has demarcated the border between Russian troops in Kherson and the Ukrainians. The Ukrainian's crossed it for the Kherson 'counterattack' which is still proceeding. With the river now flooding they will be cut off from the northern side.

Here is a larger overview of the area. The Ukrainian position beyond the Ingulet is on the bottom left.


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LiveUAmap puts the dam strike (yellow circled red bomb at the top) at a dam on a smaller reservoir northeast of Kryvyi Rih. After comparing pictures in the BBC report with aerial pictures I believe that dam hit is on the larger reservoir west of Kryvyi Rih. This is also consistent with reports of damages to water supplies in the city. That water comes from the larger reservoir.

This attack had a clear military value. It is not a 'terrorist' act. Water diversions for military purposes are a standard tactic in larger military operations. In April the Ukrainian side flooded large areas north of Kiev to stop Russian troops from moving towards the city. As the New York Times reported at that time:

All around Demydiv, a village north of Kyiv, residents have been grappling with the aftermath of a severe flood, which under ordinary circumstances would have been yet another misfortune for a people under attack by Russia.

This time, though, it was a tactical victory. The Ukrainians flooded the village intentionally, along with a vast expanse of fields and bogs around it, creating a quagmire that thwarted a Russian tank assault on Kyiv and bought the army precious time to prepare defenses.

The residents of Demydiv paid the price in the rivers of dank green floodwater that engulfed many of their homes. And they couldn’t be more pleased.

After their large move into the Kharkov region, from which the Russian's had withdrawn with only minor losses, the Ukrainian military has become a bit cocky. North of Kharkov it attacked Russian villages and positions across the border. Such attacks could help Russia to mobilize more troops. While the Russian military, aside from a big war, is not allowed to use conscripts in military operations abroad it can use those on the Russian side of the border. This significantly increases the pool of soldiers the Russian military can now use to counter Ukrainian moves.

Ukrainian troops also attempted to attack Lyman which is protecting the southern side of the remaining Russian positions in the Kharkov oblast. Professional Russian troops have now been moved there to replace Luhansk Peoples Republic's militia which had held the city. They will remove the Ukrainian troops hiding in the forests north of the Siverski Donets river.


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The Ukrainians also attempted several smaller counterattacks on Russian positions in the Donbas region. All of those failed.

An expected large Ukrainian attack in the south of the Donbas region towards Mariupol has not yet happened but the Ukrainian side has increased its reconnaissance activities in the area east of Zaporizhzhia.

 

Posted by b on September 15, 2022 at 9:21 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Excellent move and if it saves many Russian lives then it is a mighty good tactic. As the rainy season approaches the dams will refill if repairs can be made but if not then perhaps repairs will have to wait until spring. As I see it this neutralises Uke attacks to the east but not neccessarily Russian attacks westwards. Air power is a mighty advantage.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 15 2022 9:38 utc | 1

It's fine for Russia to attack civilian infrastructure now despite claims for months they were going slow to avoid civilian casualties and damage to the civilian infrastructure that they are now bombing.

Gotcha.

It's hard to keep up with the ever evolving definition of what a "SMO" entails.

Posted by: evilsooty999 | Sep 15 2022 9:48 utc | 2

Today a german government controlled medium published interesting article how russian gas is damaging german agriculture.
"Without gas there will be no milk, joghurt or butter"
To produce fertilizer u need what? Yes......

https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2022-09/bauern-ertragseinbrueche-duenger-gas-knappheit

Posted by: Tiroler | Sep 15 2022 9:52 utc | 3

I would not say so.
Ukro army is sheling Nova Kakhovka dam for month...
First, to flood population, then do disrupt enrgy supply to RF controled area.
Normaly, with US haubitcers, that takes time...

So, with new strategy, RF army is not working with gloves anymore. Nazis are not respecting that....
You can chase away rats also by flooding them... Now they would need pontons again...

I am wondering already long time, why is RF army so sensitive to ukro army? Because there are pretty girls?
They have guns which can kill a man...

Posted by: preseren3 | Sep 15 2022 9:53 utc | 4

Zelensky's propensity to lie, lie and damn lie and for hypocrisy is truly breathtaking.

First his vitriolic hateful rant yesterday, deeply disturbing I would say and stating they would enslave the Russian POWs, brutally torture them and then kill them is deeply depraved and truly shocking. He meant it. After all he won't allow the Red Cross to visit the POWs. They are the words of not only someone who is clearly acting out of pure unadulterated hatred towards Russians but also, he is the President and, like all other politicians is required to exercise tact and diplomacy. He is in a rapid descent to the 1st level of insanity. He is not in control of himself, his politicians or his ambassadors or his emotions. His rants are rapidly becoming totally irrational.

Last night's statement on which he calls Russia terrorists for killing civilians is wild. Who gad been torturing and killing Donbass residents? Who blockaded Crimea and the Donbass from water and food? Who is still bombing Donbass citizens? Who us terrorising Ukranian citizens and ethic Russians? The list is endless.

The collective West has not condemned the hate rant as yet. It sgoukd give them an indication of how dangerously on the brink of insanity Ze is. At the very least, they should outright abd in rhe strongest possible terms condemn the statements made about the torture and murder of the POWs.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Sep 15 2022 10:01 utc | 5

Posted by: evilsooty999 | Sep 15 2022 9:48 utc | 3


It's fine for Russia to attack civilian infrastructure now ...

It's not civilian infrastructure anymore if it's being used for military purposes.


Gotcha.

I don't think you "got" anything.


It's hard to keep up with the ever evolving definition of what a "SMO" entails.

Where are you getting these "definitions" from?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 15 2022 10:04 utc | 6

Before the British criticism starts, please note that the famous "Dam Busters" air raid in 1943 killed at least 1,600 civilians, including about 1,000 Soviet "forced labourers" (in plain English, slaves).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chastise

Posted by: tom welsh | Sep 15 2022 10:07 utc | 7

"Zelenski is an idiot."

He is not an idiot; he is an actor playing his part for propaganda purposes. Since most Western media operate by simply offering a stage for Ukrainian officials to freely spew their propaganda, what the Western audience will believe is Zelensky's version: the Russians are angrily inflicting gratuitous pain on the Ukrainian population out of spite and frustration for having been harshly beaten on the Izyum front.

What fraction of the Western public opinion will do its due diligence and learn about the Andriivka salient and the tactical purpose of letting the Ingulets flood?

What fraction will do its due diligence and learn that the Kharkov front was so lightly defended that it was basically already abandoned and that the UAF largely advanced through empty territory without being confronted by the Russian military except for the occasional delaying action?

Posted by: Leonardo | Sep 15 2022 10:07 utc | 8

Posted by: preseren3 | Sep 15 2022 9:53 utc | 5


I am wondering already long time, why is RF army so sensitive to ukro army?

The Russians know they're fighting more than the AFU,so they need to expend only enough energy to achieve an objective.

When a fight will be long and hard, it's wise to carefully measure out the energy of violence.

Those who blow their load all in one go tend to get left with no fuel in the tank when need is greatest.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 15 2022 10:09 utc | 9

'"You are weaklings who fight civilians," Mr Zelensky said...'

Said the man who has ordered the Ukrainian armed forces to bombard the cities, towns and villages of Donbass, Crimea, and Kherson, killing many thousands of civilians and injuring even more.

Of course, Mr Zelensky might question whether Russians, or those who support Russia, are even human. After all, he and his followers do claim to be Nazis...

Posted by: tom welsh | Sep 15 2022 10:10 utc | 10

Russian northern front - Latest on Ukrainian counteroffensive

https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1nAKErmoQpbGL

Posted by: Z-truck | Sep 15 2022 10:18 utc | 11

"Zelenski is an idiot".

Well, not quite. Every thing he says and the leadership team does seems in service towards escalation.

To summarize

- painting increasingly horrible pictures of atrocities and demonic acts performed from Russian Federation
- trying to invoke WW2 imagery (ironically) or extermination and civilian targeting, torture, extermination
- painting Ukraine as front-line for whole of the EU against barbarism and decline (also major, painful irony there).

The strategy behind this is to become and remain a major hub of financial and military help. A constant stream which he and his group of handlers then can control, cream, divert and direct where needed. Already in 2014 it became clear to Kiev that this was a path of survival for the regime. There's a rough analogy with Assad in Syria or the old Afghan make-shift government attitude to the US and NATO. The pattern is always: flow your help through us and we'll be forever in need. With Assad the help was military, with actions, with training. The Western version showing to be all-in, a roaring river of honey to rescue, help and bond. Which is the real "idiot". And no, I don't need conspiracy or power grabs to explain such strategy. Just bleeping, dangerous stupidity to be abused by clients.

Posted by: John Dowser | Sep 15 2022 10:22 utc | 12

Windows stay dangerous in Russia

Russian oil chief 'falls to death from hospital window' in Moscow

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220901-russian-oil-chief-falls-to-death-from-hospital-window-in-moscow

Posted by: Z-truck | Sep 15 2022 10:26 utc | 13

There seems to be one clear factor emerging from the SMO. Ukraine cannot win anything for more than a few days unless the Russians let them win.

Posted by: Pancho Plail | Sep 15 2022 10:26 utc | 14

Jo Dominich | Sep 15 2022 10:01 utc | 6
It does make you wonder how long it will be before the West links Volodimir's statement about pow rights violations with his accusations of identical crimes by the Russians. It looks like pure projection to me, so whatever he accuses Russia of, look for it being done by his side. It seems like a 100% record to date.

Posted by: Pancho Plail | Sep 15 2022 10:31 utc | 15

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 15 2022 10:04 utc | 7

A dam isn't civilian infrastructure? If you say so.

"Where are you getting these "definitions" from?"

It's been a standard response repeated numerous times in the comments here and across the pro-Russian western media that the slow pace was due to Russia not wanting to damage civilian infrastructure.

I suppose the goalposts have moved yet again and we are supposed to forget all that. Into the memory hole with that, comrade.

Posted by: evilsooty999 | Sep 15 2022 10:32 utc | 16

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 15 2022 10:09 utc | 10

Yeah!
It was OK until first civilians, teachers, were shot in the head in Izjum...
Now I am angry.
If RF army decided to wirhdraw, they should notice that persons to go as well
In some news was noticed, that were Russian teaches....

Posted by: preseren3 | Sep 15 2022 10:35 utc | 17

But the Baghdad water treatment facility was a legitimate military target?

Posted by: RTD | Sep 15 2022 10:37 utc | 18

⚡️ Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine (September 15, 2022)

◽️ Russian Aerospace Forces, missile troops and artillery launch massive fire attacks at the units and reserve forces of Ukrainian troops.

💥 High-precision air attacks launched at the provisional bases of 116th Territorial Defence Brigade and Omega special detachment near Odnorobovka and Kharkov (Kharkov region) have resulted in the elimination of up to 30 servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) and 10 units of military equipment.

💥 Massive fire attacks have resulted in causing casualties of up to 500 servicemen and over 40 units of military equipment of 24th and 28th AFU mechanised brigades near Krasnoye Znamya and Novogrigorovka (Nikolayev region), as well as of 46th Airmobile Brigade of the AFU near Sukhoy Stavok and Belogorka (Kherson region).

💥 Within unsuccessful operation of 10th Mountain Assault Brigade of the AFU near Spornoye (Donetsk People's Republic), the formation has lost over 80 Ukrainian servicemen dead, 8 armoured vehicles and 5 pickups.

💥 Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery have neutralised 7 AFU command posts near Dobropolye, Artyomovsk (Donetsk People's Republic), Kamyshevakha (Zaporozhye region), Olgino (Kherson region), Kalinovka, Murakhovka, Novorossiyskoye (Nikolayev region), as well as 42 artillery units, 116 AFU manpower and military equipment concentration areas.

💥 5 missile, artillery and munitions depots have been destroyed near Prikolotnoye, Izyum (Kharkov region), Krasnoye, Seversk and Novogrigorovka (Donetsk People's Republic).

💥 Air defence facilities have shot down 12 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles near Snigiryovka and Ternoviye Pody (Nikolayev region), Zemlyanki, Kamenka, Novopetrikovka, Kirillovka, Nikolayevka, Staromlinovka (Donetsk People's Republic), Maksima Gorkogo, Pyatikhatki and Chkalovo (Kherson region), as well as near Smeloye (Zaporozhye region).

◽️ Moreover, 2 Tochka-U ballistic missiles have been destroyed in air near Perevalsk (Lugansk People's Republic) and Donetsk, as well as 30 HIMARS and Olkha MRLS projectiles near Kakhovka hydroelectric plant, Kherson city and Trudovoye (Zaporozhye region).

📊 In total, 293 airplanes and 155 helicopters, 1,960 unmanned aerial vehicles, 374 air defence missile systems, 4,934 tanks and other armoured combat vehicles, 835 combat vehicles equipped with MRLS, 3,387 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 5,602 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.

Posted by: Summary | Sep 15 2022 10:38 utc | 19

Approximately 120 Ukrainian paratroopers who tried to land on the Kinburn Spit were destroyed by allied forces. Russian artillery & aerospace forces were waiting for them, reports Stremousov

It was reported that UA paratroopers approached with 7 speed boats and 1 Mi-8 helicopter the western peninsula of Kherson.

https://t.me/asbmil/5259

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 15 2022 10:41 utc | 20

I'm getting ready to exhibit at a trade show - and ordered a bunch of supporting material: flag banners, rack cards and what not.

One of the orders is now delayed until further notice because of UPS suspending operations in Ukraine/Russia/Belarus.
WTF?
Was the company really having one of these materials created in one of the above countries and delivered to the US?

IMGUR screenshot

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 15 2022 10:44 utc | 21

Ukraine winning says Zelinsky, rooting out collaborators in reclaimed areas.

Go*gle News headline

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Sep 15 2022 11:04 utc | 22

Evilsooty. Boy, please use punctuation! Painful to read and to understand. Skipped after your first words. This is war, you speak as if the USA never attacked civilian infrastructure, lol. USA doctrine is bomb the first days, cut electricity and water, destroy or capture radio/tv stations.

Posted by: Thermazone | Sep 15 2022 11:05 utc | 23

What I start to understand is where the cold blooded and clueless way the German government leads the country into deindustrialization comes from. Obviously the anglosaxon services tel them since weeks: don’t be impressed by some Russian success. We are preparing everything and we will win.

The want to take it all from Russia, so it’s worth to destroy their country. They think it is only temporary. They really believe it. And if it is going wrong, it wasn’t their fault.

Posted by: njet | Sep 15 2022 11:06 utc | 24

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 15 2022 10:41 utc | 21

Approximately 120 Ukrainian paratroopers who tried to land on the Kinburn Spit were destroyed by enemy forces.

Here, fixed that for you.

Posted by: Z-truck | Sep 15 2022 11:14 utc | 25

Posted by: evilsooty999 | Sep 15 2022 10:32 utc | 17


A dam isn't civilian infrastructure? If you say so.

But you know that's not what I said, you evil little troll ...


"Where are you getting these "definitions" from?"
It's been a standard response repeated numerous times in the comments here and across the pro-Russian western media


So you're telling me Putin trawls MoA and 'pro-Russian western media' to update his definition of SMO? Give me one example?


I suppose the goalposts have moved yet again and we are supposed to forget all that ...

You keep conjuring up these flimsy fantasms that vanish on closer examination. Now you're on to imaginary goal posts.

It's all in your head, and in your head only ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 15 2022 11:17 utc | 26

@clue 22
If the items were heavy, and made in China, they may have been shipped through Russia by train.
I had a delivery from UPS recently in England which had two bags of fish bait as packing. Two scam emails about tracking came from a different company, IPS.

I took the fish bait as a warni g metaphor for USUKIS disapproval of my political views, because opening a parcel is a serious breach of trust by a courier company.

BTW, anybody who gets rattled by blood-curdling threats from USUKIS proxy Zelensky has not lived through the blood-curdling threats by USUKIS proxy Islamic State.

They turned out to be very mortal rented pussies when Obama had got the Kurdish Oil he wanted.

USUKIS engage in war to establish ownership of the land and in its resources. Humans have to be removed to facilitate that process. Blood curdling Threats are par for the course
As will Mr Piano Penis,

Posted by: Giyane | Sep 15 2022 11:24 utc | 27


Can anyone supply troop numbers or a link to a source?

Russia supposedly has only 200k troops
But that figure presumably does not include DPR and LPR.
So how many are they supplying?
They are supposed to have done MOST of the fighting on the Donbas front. So it must be quite a few.
BUT: they have about 5 million people all up. Under full mobilisation they could therefore theoretically put upwards of 500,000 men in the military.
Say 400,000
So we might expect right now in these dire times something like 200,000 right?
So the question is: are they currently there and the allies are fighting with a total force of 400,000?
Or are they not there and they could be made available quick time?
In all my reading the question never gets a mention. I just wonder.

Posted by: arthur brogard | Sep 15 2022 11:25 utc | 28

Ukraine's Kherson and the Kharkov offensives have resulted in major Ukrainian losses. Meanwhile, the Russians are increasing their troop and equipment strength in the Donbas area. I figure Russia will take the Donbas within the next couple of months. After that, the Russian Bear will arise and devour much flesh (Daniel 7:5). The taking of Crimea, Luhansk, and Donetsk will not be considered "much flesh" compared to what is coming soon to most NATO countries. If you live in the USA, it is best to take a long vacation elsewhere in the world immediately after Donetsk falls.

Posted by: young | Sep 15 2022 11:34 utc | 29

big serge who does good analysis used the term being liquidated for the ukies now trapped on the bridgehead. The Russian term neutralized is better on the senses, but going by the way the ukies don't collect and bury their dead, liquidated is perhaps the correct term.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 15 2022 11:41 utc | 30

@Arthur Brogard 28
Did we not see how diverse Russian Federation resources are in Kazakhstan ?
Why are you fishing for numbers in a time of war?

The way I see it, in Syria or Libya, FUKUSIS often stuck specially trained reserves on passenger planes for boots on the ground. No numbers to be counted at all. No public announcement or accountability at all. It takes 4 - 5 hours to get to Istanbul from London; 2 hours to get to Ukraine?

So does Russia not have passenger planes to fly in reserves? We are not living in the Crimean War.

Posted by: Giyane | Sep 15 2022 11:47 utc | 31

arthur brogard | Sep 15 2022 11:25 utc | 28

From what I can make of it, Russia is only using contract troops in the SMO. Higher pay, higher risk. Kadyrov's forces have a personal score to settle in Ukraine. Chechen forces are part of the Rus Fed military but with a great deal of autonomy. Kadyrov is CIC and only answers to Putin.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 15 2022 11:49 utc | 32

@arthur #28. Mercouris estimates 80,000 Russian troops, plus perhaps I think (from memory) 100k allies

Posted by: Tim | Sep 15 2022 11:52 utc | 33

preseren3 | Sep 15 2022 10:35 utc | 17

If it weren't so serious, it would be amusing to see how anglo ukraine butchery of civilian population is blamed on Russia. Neither Russia nor anyone else has appointed Russia policeman of the world.
Russia is in Ukraine purely to destroy the NATO threat to Russia.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 15 2022 12:01 utc | 34

@16 evilsooty999 "A dam isn't civilian infrastructure? If you say so."

The Ukrainian Army closed the slipway of the dam to lower the level of the Ingulet river and reduce its flow.

It did that to make it easier for their engineers to build pontoon bridges across that river so their forces could cross it.

That made the dam a legitimate military target i.e. hitting it destroyed those pontoon bridges.

There is nothing magical about a house, or a school, or a dam *if* the enemy forces are using it for a military purpose.

The Ukrainians were using that dam for a military purpose, so the Russians strike against it satisfies the principle of proportionality and the principle of distinction i.e. it satisfied the criteria for "military necessity".

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 15 2022 12:07 utc | 35

@28 arthur brogard

"Russia supposedly has only 200k troops
But that figure presumably does not include DPR and LPR."

If you mean inside Ukraine then that number most definitely will include DPR and LPR militias.

There is no way that the Russians have 200k of their own soldiers in there.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 15 2022 12:10 utc | 36

Too much trolling:
Too many barflies bothering to engage with trolls in endless pseudo dialogs ...
The blog is becoming illegible, devoid of any information or real debate.
it seems obvious that clvers barflies refrain from posting here these days ...
Too bad.
Browsing quickly Telegram brings much more info in minutes ...
Sorry about that!

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Sep 15 2022 12:15 utc | 37

Leonardo | Sep 15 2022 10:07 utc | 8

« « What fraction of the Western public opinion will do its due diligence »

Why the concern about what westies think – you must be aware that very nearly all westie reporting on this war is propoganda, and that it will take a major depression or some other catastrophic event to oblige the people of the USEU to rethink or to understand the situation

However the audience for the Russians is the remaining 85% of the world, which, it seems, has understood and appreciates the explnations given by the RF

Look out for news from the current SVO summit for information on this

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 15 2022 12:15 utc | 38

Poland demanding reparation from Germany... This movie was placed on youtube around the time the green tee shirt signed a deal for Poland to take over admin of western Ukraine.
It was difficult to see which way it was headed but the last quarter leaves nothing in doubt. It shows Ukraine nationalism in its bloody glory. Galicia and Volyn natzees should be watching their backs rather than watching Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY-zOOjTO7U&t=6828s

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 15 2022 12:20 utc | 39

from the article

"After their large move into the Kharkov region, from which the Russian's had withdrawn with only minor losses, the Ukrainian military has become a bit cocky. North of Kharkov it attacked Russian villages and positions across the border. Such attacks could help Russia to mobilize more troops. While the Russian military, aside from a big war, is not allowed to use conscripts in military operations abroad it can use those on the Russian side of the border. This significantly increases the pool of soldiers the Russian military can now use to counter Ukrainian moves."

I didn't realize this; so the Ukrainian troops crossed the border into Russia? I don't know Russian law; I guess this means Russian conscripts can't follow fleeing Ukrainian troops back across the border into Ukraine? I'm glad Russia will be better able to defend itself on its own territory--I didn't realize the legal constraints it was operating under in order to maintain this as a SMO.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 15 2022 12:21 utc | 40

Gerrard White | Sep 15 2022 12:15 utc | 38

SCO

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 15 2022 12:21 utc | 41

Two wrongs don’t make a right but speaking of dams USA deliberately targeted all the dams in N.Korea. The war there killed 20% of the population most by deprivation. MacArthur a looming GOP presidential threat to Truman pressured him into not being a pinko pussy, the USA military was seasoned and at height of its power so a war against third world DPKR would be over in two weeks. Truman was weak minded and a hawk and signed up for the short ride but he well understood that the country having just come out of WW2 was had no stomach for WW3. When the war didn't go as promised he and the military panicked and proceeded with a systematic genocide of the DPRK civilian population. The damns were totally non-military, the objective was to starve the populace to make them too weak and undermanned to fight. Biological warfare was also part of the starvation plan to ruin crops with pests and disease and apparently implemented. Operation Wormwood, there was a docu-drama made by the name. The reason it was only 20% of the population terminated was because the Chinese stepped in.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 15 2022 12:24 utc | 42

SCO Summit Newsflash First report from Tass


Russia is happy about Iran joining SCO — Putin


« « SAMARKAND, September 15. /TASS/. Russia is very happy that Iran will soon join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday at a meeting with his Iranian counterpart Ebrahim Raisi on the sidelines of the SCO summit.

"As we agreed with you, we have done everything for Iran to become a full member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. Our partners in this organization have supported your application, all that is left is one last formality. It is indeed a formality, and Iran is joining this already serious, large and authoritative international organization," Putin said.
"And we are very happy about this," the Russian president stressed.

Putin added, that on many international issues Moscow’s and Tehran’s stances are close or coincide. "Interregional ties are developing. We actively cooperate on the international arena and on many [points] our positions are close, or, as diplomats say, coincide," he noted.
Putin recalled the warm welcome by Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei during his recent visit to Tehran. "Thanks to his support, many projects are moving forward. We are interested in his further support. I am asking you to convey to him my best wishes," the Russian leader told his colleague.

The current members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, founded in 2001, are India, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, China, Pakistan, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. The observer countries are Afghanistan, Belarus, Iran and Mongolia; the partner countries are Armenia, Azerbaijan, Cambodia, Nepal, Turkey, and Sri Lanka. The current SCO summit in Samarkand is expected to finalize the admission of Iran and grant the status of a dialogue partner to Egypt, Qatar and Saudi Arabia.

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 15 2022 12:29 utc | 43

No way 200k. My guess is 10-20k RF and 2x-3x from Donbass. A few thousands Chechens and an unknown number of musicians.

Posted by: rk | Sep 15 2022 12:35 utc | 44

The "Donbas" quite literally means the "Don Basin" - the "Basin of the Don River".

For this reason I find it hard to understand why Russia would so willingly surrender the Eastern Bank of the (Siversky) Donetsk River - quite literally a part of the "Don Basin" - Eastern Kharkiv.

Understandably the LPR forces were not interested in defending this area - but why was it so readily conceded? It provided Luhansk with strategic depth and the Siversky Donetsk River makes a natural boundary that allows Russian/Allied forces to maintain pressure on Kharkiv.

It's a bizarre decision in all reality.

Posted by: Julian | Sep 15 2022 12:38 utc | 45

"Why the concern about what westies think – you must be aware that very nearly all westie reporting on this war is propoganda, and that it will take a major depression or some other catastrophic event to oblige the people of the USEU to rethink or to understand the situation"
Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 15 2022 12:15 utc | 38

It reminds me of the Vietnam War--it started hitting the middle class hard, and there was a lot of domestic opposition. when the draft ended, the opposition started drying up. so the populace understood the situation for a while, but when it stopped affecting them so much they just settled back into their comfortable illusions about what the US actually is; an aggressive, ruthless empire. In the last Ritter video, he thinks the coming winter will have a similar effect on people in the EU.

It's all very well to wave Ukrainian flags when there is no personal cost associated with it.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 15 2022 12:39 utc | 46

Hi Pancho @15. Interesting comparison to make. From my point of view in his hate filled rant he all but ordered the Ukrainian Army to do this. They gave already been doing so as all the videos they posted earlier in this conflict doing this attest.

Ze was unquestionably inciting serious violence and racial hatred against Russians which he knows will be acted on. It is worth substituting the word Russian with Jewish in his rant. It becomes truly shocking and shows that Zelensky isn't just an Adolf wannabee but is more Adolf than Adolf so to speak. He is a tyrannical Nazi worse in my book than Adolf. The sooner the Ukraine people string him up and get rid ofor him the better.

Also, shame on the Red Cross for failing to do their job due to partisan bias towards Ukraine.

People wonder how the Nazi ideology took hold in Germany. Here we are witnessing active support for it by the collective West. Not a single worday of condemnation. Not one.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Sep 15 2022 12:41 utc | 47

Julian | Sep 15 2022 12:38 utc | 45

Donetsk Basin. Don river is further east. Russia has no interest in a land grab. Those who thought Russia would conquer Russian Ukraine or all of Ukraine militarily might be starting to come to terms with that now. There are many ways to skin a cat. Putin could write a book on the subject.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 15 2022 12:45 utc | 48

I suppose it's just another side of any conflict to damage infrastructure, to make the oppositions lives, and progress, just that little bit more intolerable, and to bog down or slow down any advancements. It's the civilians that I feel sorry for, they are caught up in the middle and will suffer the most due to damaged or knocked-out utility supplies.

Unlike Europeans protesting their governments over this conflict, I'd imagine that if Ukrainians decided to protest against their own, what passes for a government, they would quickly be dealt with in a brutal fashion.

I get the feeling that Putin wanted to avoid such tactics, but with Nato becoming more and more involved in the hostilities, that option looks as though it's now off the table.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 15 2022 12:48 utc | 49

rk @ 44

No way 200k. My guess is 10-20k RF and 2x-3x from Donbass. A few thousands Chechens and an unknown number of musicians.

If so then the SMO stretched out so thin over such a long border will go down in history a one of war's great fuck ups. Even if 200K troops as RF gained territory they need to increase troop size unless they were 110% certain UKR forces were terminally waning. The SMO might have just got out ahead of themselves, that would be twice now. Maybe Putin and Shoigu get their info reading Konashenkov's daily MoD briefings on Telegram.

On Iran, add that to USA/UK blowback list. This attack on Russia broke Iran out of jail.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 15 2022 12:51 utc | 50

pretzelattack | Sep 15 2022 12:39 utc | 46

It’s to agree that opposition to Vietnam war was made functional by the draft – now even conscripts can not be found in sufficient number in the US, and most all armaments rely on foreign made inputs and very long delivery times (ditto EU)

Perhaps the disjunct between effective demilitarisation and rabid war mongering would be less absurd if the peoples of the USEU were not so sold on demonising the rest of the world

It'll take a major crisis to get even a few of them to change their minds

Otherwise - What will they attack with ? Their phones ? – the masssed ranks gleaming in the…

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 15 2022 12:52 utc | 51

The head of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen banging the drums of war.


"This is a war against our energy, a war against our economy, a war against our values, a war against our future. And I stand here with the conviction that with courage and solidarity, Putin will fail, Europe will triumph. Europe's solidarity with Ukraine will remain unwavering. And I want to make it clear that sanctions against Russia will remain in place until its economy is torn apart. Now is the time for determination, not peace."


https://ria.ru/20220915/evropa-1816829050.html

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 15 2022 12:55 utc | 52

arthur brogard | Sep 15 2022 11:25 utc | 28

"In all my reading the question never gets a mention. I just wonder."

It's a very relevant question, imo.
But if you want official, exact numbers I guess you'll have to wait 10 years for the historians to write their books.
Meanwhile, you can of course make estimates and draw conclusions.

The armed forces of the two People's Republics, before the SMO, amounted to some 40,000 heads - combined!
Of course they have mobilized, but they've also born the brunt of soldiers killed. Where does that leave us, some 50,000 troops, perhaps a little more?

Then there are the volunteers - from Russia proper, from Chechnya, from Russian-held parts of Ukraine (excluding LPR/DPR), a few thousand of each group?

The Wagner combattants, another few thousand.

Rosgvardiya people, also a few thousand.

So far, that sums up as maybe 60,000 heads.

Now to proper Russian forces, organized in battalion tactical groups (BTGs). I've lost track of how many of those Russia has committed to the fighting in Ukraine. Is it 50, is it 100? Whatever the number may be currently, a BTG is manned by only about 800 troops. But of those 800, only 200-300 are actual infantrymen doing close-quarters combat!

So in total, the Russian alliance may have 140,000 troops involved. However, only a fraction of those are frontline combat forces, I'm guessing 1/2 to 2/3. In any case, this leaves you with considerably less than 100,000 people as a fighting force.

200,000 - 400,000 - 500,000 troops, those numbers are just a fantasy.

And my expectation is, this won't change.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Sep 15 2022 12:57 utc | 53

For all of those shrieking to the heavens that Russia is now somehow guilty of expanding the war, go online and read reports of the Sept.14 "Kieve Security Compact" or read and acknowledge the completely belicose demands of the Ukrainian Defense Chief to use "premptive nuclear strikes against "alleged" Russian plans to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine.

Posted by: wt baker | Sep 15 2022 12:58 utc | 54

Yeah whatever, it kinda begs the question though, if blowing the Karachunivske reservoir dam genuinely hinders the Ukies and prevents them from reinforcing other Ukie troops in the Kherson offensive why teh f..k did Russia wait so long before blowing it? Why, given how so many 'commentators' have been telling us for the last few days that Russia knew that Ukie would invade after they allegedly withdrew, in fact they planned for that.

One thing outta the last week that should happen is that objective observers who have been told for so long that only the Ukraine government is deceitful will now wake up to a simple reality about war, that is all sides lie. Whether or not they are committed to one side or another, or even if they just slightly favour one side, the ridiculously lengthy rationalisations they have read here and seen elsewhere should tell them that both sides talk bulldust when necessary.

There is a line by Gertrude in Act 3 of Hamlet which goes "The lady doth protest too much, methinks," which absolutely sums up much of the tosh that has been tossed about since the Ukies jagged a big chunk of territory. Why? How do I know that so many have been talking tosh?

Because like many others I followed what Russians said in the aftermath of the Ukie success, there was silence about troop movements by Russia until Wednesday - if the Russians had expected the Ukie response, much less encouraged it, they would have had their hacks all cued up and ready to state that on Sunday, but they didn't they stayed schtum for three days, that tells me they are prevaricating.

Setback that it is, it should make little difference to the outcome, except for one thing, that is if you were a Russian speaking Ukie in an area currently or soon to be occupied by Russia, do you reckon you would be so eager to swap yer Ukie cash for RF roubles, ditch your Ukie ID for a Russian passport as so many were shown doing or would you decide to sit on the fence for as long as possible, hopefully for ever.

Actually I'm unsurprised by any of this as Syrian warriors from the North of Syria experienced exactly this same dilemma when the Russian government pulled a similar stunt on them, allowing Turkey then amerika to take over the Northern third of Syria no problems, a call which left those warriors unable to return home and even worse put their families at risk of arrest & torture.

Russia has revealed itself to be just more of the same in that when push comes to shove, they just like everyone else are unmoved by ideals; no matter what they claim Russia is only interested in what is good for its elites.

Time to cease favouring one team over another and instead digest reality and work on ways and means to ensure that decisions are made by citizens, not those bent on trying to mold what citizens are allowed to think.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 15 2022 13:05 utc | 55

Scotch Bingeington | Sep 15 2022 12:57 utc | 53

According to pentagon, 140 BTG's have been set aside for the SMO. That is likely close to the mark. If average BTG comprises 750 personnel that's a touch over a hundred thousand.
Front line forces are considerably less when the reserve for rotation is taken into account.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 15 2022 13:06 utc | 56

Jo Dominich @ 5

It's the cocaine that is doing in Zelenski.

Something interesting about cocaine. New drug dealers start at the top. Bright young faces are welcome at all the toniest parties. Everyone wants to know the newest dealer on the scene. Six months late the dealer is a mess and gets to play only with others as washed up as himself. If the washed up one attempts to play in a tough neighborhood he gets dead.

US needs a new dealer. Zelenski is using way too much of the product. US does not have another dealer and never had a Plan B.

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 15 2022 13:07 utc | 57

Kiev Security Compact:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/09/15/btuv-s15.html

How is Russia winning if this is brewing in the background?

How can Russia win without destroying the Ukrainian state or escalating militarily to really demilitarize Ukraine and neuter NATO?

Posted by: Wilbur | Sep 15 2022 13:13 utc | 58

First his vitriolic hateful rant yesterday, deeply disturbing I would say and stating they would enslave the Russian POWs, brutally torture them and then kill them is deeply depraved and truly shocking

Could you link it please? I'm usually not following what the clown says, but this sounds significant.

Posted by: Aule | Sep 15 2022 13:13 utc | 59

@35 That made the dam a legitimate military target i.e. hitting it destroyed those pontoon bridges.

Wouldn’t it have been easier just to hit the pontoon bridges and leave the dam intact?

Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 15 2022 13:15 utc | 60

@TomUK t
hey filled parts of the river with gravel allowing them to drive across and also new bridges are fast and easy in slow water vrs not going to happen in fast moving flood water.

Posted by: OhhCanada | Sep 15 2022 13:33 utc | 61

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 15 2022 12:55 utc | 52
The head of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen banging the drums of war.

"This is a war against our energy, a war against our economy, a war against our values, a war against our future."

https://ria.ru/20220915/evropa-1816829050.html

Well, von der Leyen is correct. Unfortunately she has the culprit incorrect. The war is being waged by the EU on its own people. The sanctions she so earnestly wishes to continue have been applied, not by Russia, but by the EU and its allies on the people of the EU. The people of the EU are being played.The enemy in this war is within.

The powers of the EU have effectively sanctioned their own energy and economy, and have been attacking their own nations' values and destroying their peoples' future. Time to sharpen Mr. Guillotine.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 15 2022 13:34 utc | 62

@35 That made the dam a legitimate military target i.e. hitting it destroyed those pontoon bridges.

Wouldn’t it have been easier just to hit the pontoon bridges and leave the dam intact?

-Hitting pontoon bridges instead of the dam makes sense if you want to cross over at some point. Russia is switching to a defensive posture. They want the river to be impassable, this is a quick way to do that.
That and Russia is turning Ukraine into a 19th-century de-industrialized economy.

Posted by: Tom | Sep 15 2022 13:40 utc | 63

@Debsisdead

They had no reason to blow the bridge it would only delay a full scale attack, this is the emergency stop button splitting the Ukie forces in two. Now they get to fight an easier battle.

Posted by: OhhCanada | Sep 15 2022 13:43 utc | 64

Posted by: Wilbur | Sep 15 2022 13:13 utc | 58


Wilbur, I agree that the WSWS piece makes a good point. Russia has been so far unable to successfully deter the US from escalating, bit by bit, over the course of six months. They have issued warnings about prior red lines, and then looked the other way when these lines were crossed. Now the US is entertaining providing Ukraine with 300km range missiles, and Russia has said that if this happens, Russia will consider the US a direct party to the war. Obviously Russia is hoping that this warning will deter the US. But will it? What has the US suffered for its earlier rounds of escalation?

The WSWS piece suggests that Russia has no ultimate recourse except (1) to rely on US self-interest to avoid WW3, and (2) to threaten thermonuclear war if (1) doesn't happen. But this is putting a LOT of trust in (1), which is dangerous to do, given the amount of crazed Khazar neo-con Russiaphobes in leading positions in US defense apparatus.

Russia eventually MUST demonstrate the capacity and willingness to harm US/NATO forces directly in order to move the US/NATO to deescalate. One possiblity is hitting command centers in Kviv and Lviv that are known to contain NATO advisors. If NATO is not "officially" there, then Russia cannot be said to have "officially" attacked NATO.

Posted by: WJ | Sep 15 2022 13:44 utc | 65

Jo no. 5

Where can i find that speech? (Other than telegram)

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Sep 15 2022 13:44 utc | 66

For the weather buffs....Mr Winter and Dr Freeze may be slow to deploy....long range forecasts for this part of the N. Hemisphere is warmer than usual temps and little precipitation up to the end of November. Ukraine should be similar, maybe even nicer, they were seeding this spring almost four week ahead of us. Never ceases to amaze me, war zones, and farmers still go to work.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 15 2022 13:52 utc | 67

@Debsisdead 55

Before you accuse Russia of lying , have you forgotten that Russia lost 200,000 troops in one attack in Izium in WW2 ?
Possibly irrational to be caught once - twice shy, but for Russian self-respect to lose the land would be far better than to suffer another massacre.

What I find really evil is the possibility that the USUKIS NAZI West planned this push deliberately to remind Russia of this Nazi victory. Salt in the Russian wounds after 30 years of Nato expansion against Russia.
Biden is a Nazi, and British and EU governments are also Nazis, so take your pick.

Posted by: Giyane | Sep 15 2022 13:53 utc | 68

Posted by: Wilbur | Sep 15 2022 13:13 utc | 58


How is Russia winning if this is brewing in the background?

This has been brewing for decades. There's nothing 'brewing' that wasn't fully brewed already by 2014.

Anything Russia is doing now is push back.


How can Russia win without destroying the Ukrainian state or escalating militarily to really demilitarize Ukraine and neuter NATO?

What makes you think the Ukrainian state is worth saving? Do you really want that corrupt, nazi shitehole to continue in it's current form?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 15 2022 13:54 utc | 69

In response to arthur brogard@28, Scotch Bingeington@53,

Right. In April or thereabout the figure as stated on Russian TV was 150k troops, excluding allied forces or volunteers, but only 1/3 of that number actively participating in combat operations, while 2/3 were either support, reserves or troops on rotation. So, all in all, a total of 100k or thereabout isn't a bad guesstimate, provided the figure is maintained.

Having said that, the last few months have seen efforts at expanding the size of volunteer and PMC forces, with talk of there being 10's of thousands of men in training already. As this is a parallel initiative, the information is vague and difficult to verify, and I doubt that RF military command is pinning their hopes on volunteers for reinforcements. In fact, I'd go even further and say that RF is engaged in a conflict as a separate entity from DNR&LNR&PMC's, though they obviously coordinate at a high level, and lumping all of the allied forces together into a single figure creates a distorted picture.

Russian strategic objectives probably differ quite a bit from those of the people's republics and, whatever they are, RF seems content with its force contribution. While PMC's are preoccupied strictly with specific tactical objectives which then form the basis for their force calculation.

Posted by: Skiffer | Sep 15 2022 13:56 utc | 70

"could you link it please? I'm usually not following what the clown says, but this sounds significant."

Seconded. Drives me nuts when people talk about stuff but no links.

Incidentally Ukraine (I think) are claiming to have crossed the Oskol.

Situation at 14:00 on 15 Sep 2022⚡️

▪️ The Ukrainian command continues its offensive in certain parts of the front. Some of the units deployed there are being transferred from the #Kharkov region to reinforce the troop grouping.

▪️ The pioneer troops of the Ukrainian Armed Forces were able to establish several crossings over the #Oskol River, which are being used by Ukrainian DRGs to penetrate the territory controlled by the Russian Federation.

▪️ According to unconfirmed reports, Russian forces have left #Studenok to avoid being encircled from the #Oskol.

▪️ In addition, soldiers of the 54th AFU Brigade were able to push Russian units out of #Sosnovoye. Currently, the engineer and sapper forces of the 54th Brigade are building strongholds in the settlement before pushing deeper into the defences of the Russian forces.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/8536

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Sep 15 2022 13:56 utc | 71

I get the feeling that Putin wanted to avoid such tactics, but with Nato becoming more and more involved in the hostilities, that option looks as though it's now off the table.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 15 2022 12:48 utc | 49

Suspect that the longer and slower the SMO goes, the better it suits his designs which feature building the new USSR, namely Union of Sovereign States & Republics. What is happening in Samarkand is of far greater import than anything in Ukraine which is now mainly a pretext for the sanctions war now splitting the world in two and soon to be exerting epic crisis level internal turmoil in Western polities whilst the East/SCO/USSR keeps going from strength to strength.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 15 2022 14:01 utc | 72

WJ | Sep 15 2022 13:44 utc | 65

Your’s is a common and fundamental misunderstanding, wilful or not, of the constant policy of the RF, and of the erratic and confused actions of the EU US

The RF understand that the USEU will act both irrationally and without significant discernible purpose, come whatever or however the RF conducts either the war or the parallel alliances and economic partnerships

One very obvious aspect is the doubling down on a sanction régime which profits the RF but which will drive the EU into economic depression, and badly damage the US

Apart from the obvious measured and patient military actions in the Ukraine, all RF attention and effort is directed at the RoW : the SCO, China, the EAEU – it is here that their future lies

Absolutely nothing can be done by anyone, not least the increasingly oppressed and impoverished peoples of EU, so called ‘Allies’ or part of NATO, to influence the increasingly desperate and irrational behaviour of the US

Put it this way – any attempt by the RF to deter the US will merely provoke the US, and leave the US with the impression that it knows what the RF wishes for, will be taken as a sign of weakness – hence the purely conventional statements made by Mr Putin

This is exactly the line taken with regard to the energy suicide performed by Germany : ‘there’s NS2 available’ : this is a take it or leave it, either way it’s your funeral

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 15 2022 14:05 utc | 73

Gerrard White@41

Today's RT stated that Iran is becoming ever closer to becoming a full member of the SCO. That eventuality will utterly dismay I$rael, the Zionist movement worldwide, their City of London owners and the puppet regime in the Di$trict of Corruption. From all appearances, the hegemonists have their hangers caught in an ever-tightening vise.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 15 2022 14:09 utc | 74

"Zelenski is an idiot."

Nah, he knows exactly why the Russians hit the reservoir. And of course he's pissed. His troops have been trying to do the same with the Kakhovka HPP using HIMARS. Except they've had no luck thus far, in part due to the excellent Russian AD. He also knows what the real score is with the so-called Kharkov "battelfield successes".
Zelenski is just acting on behalf of his mafia don Kolmojski, and despises ethnic Ukrainians. He could care less about their suffering.

Posted by: xeen | Sep 15 2022 14:09 utc | 75

SCO Newsflash

« « SAMARKAND, September 15. /TASS/. The Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) needs to be strengthened as a platform for constructive interaction, Russian President Vladimir Putin said at a meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping on the sidelines of an SCO summit on Thursday.
"We are going to take part in a meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization’s Council of Heads of State tomorrow. I would like to point out that it will be held in person for the first time after a three-year hiatus during the pandemic. It is particularly important today as our goal is to fully strengthen the SCO as a platform for constructive and creative interaction," Putin stated.

According to him, the organization brings together countries of different civilizations and cultures, who have different foreign policy priorities and national development models.

"However, efforts to build our work on the principles of equality and mutual benefit, respect for each other’s sovereignty and non-interference in the domestic affairs of others made it possible for us to turn this organization into an effective mechanism of multilateral cooperation in a short period of time in historical terms," the Russian president emphasized, adding that the SCO was the largest multinational organization that united about half of the world’s population.

Putin was also confident that his meeting with Xi Jinping would give more impetus to the Russian-Chinese strategic partnership on bilateral and international levels.
TAGS » »

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 15 2022 14:11 utc | 76

LYFH @42

Thanks for sharing that slice of forbidden history. Even as a military history buff, I had only relatively recently become fully aware of that horrendous reality. Bernhard must be applauded for enabling readers and posters to share these elements of vital information.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 15 2022 14:13 utc | 77

Scotch Bingeington @ 53

200,000 - 400,000 - 500,000 troops, those numbers are just a fantasy. And my expectation is, this won't change.

It can’t change and if it does start digging your backyard bomb shelter. After Plan A failed improvised Plan B is to provoke Russia into declaring war and sending a large part of its full force into Ukraine in desperation at losing the entire SMO, a slaughtered Donbas and Kherson province, and having ravaging, berserker UKR/NATO forces right at their western border. As the enemy is the one who declared war on the civilized West NATO can then politically justify bringing in its full missile and air power. I remember reading that NATO has some 2000 war planes even if it lost half, which it won’t, to totally defeat Russia after 500 years I think they think it’s worth it.

NATO would not have to wipe out Russian forces in Ukraine just degrade them, say by 15%. At that point Russia would be forced to scuttle back home to preserve enough forces and armaments to protect its own boarders and safe behind its nuclear deterrent. At this point the battle becomes over Crimea and the UK’s dream of bases there, so that would lie between some sort of conditional surrender involving bending the knee, regime change, lifting sanctions - and nuclear war.

This last UKR offensive wasn’t an end in its self, just a part of the relentless escalation/provocation. Those in Russia and abroad clamoring for Putin to declare war, mobilize and go all in don’t get that this is exactly what NATO at this point is striving for, it’s all they got left to save the whole shitshow. Expect them to push beyond all sane limits.

Problem is NATO who really runs the EU need to sell it back home, this is where getting Russia to declare war comes in. The entire war has been a seemingly gradual escalation for public consumption by the West while actually flooding in the high tech arms way above the stated numbers. During this current offensive it’s been revealed that thousands of NATO troops, ie fake mercenaries, in UKR uniforms are replacing lost Ukrainian soldiers. Expect soon, like everything else up to now, for NATO troops to come clean publicly, out in the public eye, and make that the new normal for Western audiences. Russia will wipe out hundreds of them a day “forcing” NATO to bring in its own air power to save our brave men.

I’ve no idea where Russia takes it from there.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 15 2022 14:14 utc | 78

The BBC should ask Zelensky if he thinks the 1943 Dambusters Raid had military value.

Posted by: Stephen | Sep 15 2022 14:17 utc | 79

RoS@49

Russia is using the old frog-boiling technique. They are gradually and incrementally turning up the heat. Meanwhile, the EU countries are growingly apprehensive about freezing in the dark.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 15 2022 14:18 utc | 80

FWIW:

Abandoning the Kharkiv region allows Russia some military advantages, says Sky analyst

Retired Air Vice Marshal Sean Bell says there are some strategic military advantages from the Russian withdrawal in the Kharkiv region.

Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says his country's forces have taken around 8,000 sq km (3,088 sq miles) of territory in the last few weeks, as they have pushed forward and the Russians have retreated.

But Air Vice Marshal Bell, who worked for the Chief of Air Staff on RAF strategy, says the pull-back should also be viewed from the perspective of what Russia gets out of it.

He says that pushing forward so quickly actually makes Ukrainian forces vulnerable and prone to counter-attack.

Air Vice Marshal Bell said: "They are at the most vulnerable at the moment.

"Taking ground is one thing. Holding it is quite another.

"Some in the West have seen this great advance as being a sign of things to come, that they'll suddenly rampage through the Russian positions. The military assessment is that's not the case at all.

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Sep 15 2022 14:20 utc | 81

aristodemos | Sep 15 2022 14:09 utc | 74

Indeed Tass reported President Putin on this subject from the SCO today

https://tass.com/politics/1507785

The alliance with Iran, and the de facto alliance with China most notable in Iran and the Middle East, and hence through to India, is of much greater significance than the police security mission in the Ukraine

This alliance brings the possibility into a probability that the Middle East as a whole, excluding the usual suspect, will be stabilised by a continued deepening of these alliances, bringing notably UAE Qatar and SA into the SCO and trade agreements with their always present military/security components

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 15 2022 14:21 utc | 82

reply to 12

Is Zelensky really a 'dead ender'?

I don't think cocaine or madness might need to be invoked. What future does he have? When you ride on the tiger's back, you can never get off. I am reminded of some of the SS (WW2) and the elite troops when Romania fell. And Khadaffi. And Saddam Hussein.

For a while, this looked like Poroshenko's situation too. How do you quit and leave? In WW2, second string guys like Mueller and Gehlen made deals and sneak away, Hitler? Not so much.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 15 2022 14:26 utc | 83


- Please allow me to do my 'Rebranding our war as taken in the interest of Global South'. It'll explain everything.

- Ah, my "old friend", good to see you again! You should visit more! We're definitely interested in any plan that establishes "stability". Chai?

Posted by: old-friend | Sep 15 2022 14:26 utc | 84

There seems a lot of disagreement about whether the dam was a legitimate military target. As I understand it the military were controlling the sluice gates to regulate water flow further downstream so as to simplify pontoon bridge building. In my eyes, that makes it a legitimate military target.

Posted by: Pancho Plail | Sep 15 2022 14:29 utc | 85

From a 2018 MoA article -

Early in life I have noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper, but in Spain, for the first time, I saw newspaper reports which did not bear any relation to the facts, not even the relationship which is implied in an ordinary lie. I saw great battles reported where there had been no fighting, and complete silence where hundreds of men had been killed. I saw troops who had fought bravely denounced as cowards and traitors, and others who had never seen a shot fired hailed as the heroes of imaginary victories; and I saw newspapers in London retailing these lies and eager intellectuals building emotional superstructures over events that had never happened. I saw, in fact, history being written not in terms of what happened but of what ought to have happened according to various ‘party lines’.

George Orwell, Looking back on the Spanish War, Chapter 4

Zelensky and his NATOland handlers are simply following a well worn path

Posted by: Exile | Sep 15 2022 14:29 utc | 86

@37: indeed and it is most sobering to see the video's of all those dead soldiers, limbs torn off, on Intel Slava et al. No one should post on any blog before considering how it would feel if any of those corpses could be your husband, brother, son, father... Fighting "to the last Ukrainian" becomes very graphic on these video's and illustrates NATO's depravity all too well...

Posted by: Anthony | Sep 15 2022 14:29 utc | 87

xeen@75

Keen analysis of Z and his Tribe.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 15 2022 14:31 utc | 88

Something is not right. A dam being blown up is a nonsense. The picture BBC is showing looks like a sluice gate after a controlled explosion, nice clear cut. hard to tell if it is even a dam or perhaps a bridge.

Dams are practically impossible to destroy - to much concrete, requires megatons of TNT. Opening a sluice gate is normal operation, say, when heavy rains threaten the dam to be overflown. That cannot flood anything or change conditions in the river bed downstream.

If the dam is not concrete, but of stone or clay, overflowing such dam wipes it out of existence in matter of hours. The flood wave created is the height of the dam and sweeps anything in its path. Such event cannot be hidden. Since nobody reported a dam being washed away, it did not happen. Which leaves us with a concrete dam and a sluice gate. Again, photo is not enough to decide which dam is it, let alone to infer consequences of the breach. Until we have something better than BBC photo of water flowing between two posts, the best thing is to ignore entire "event", if it ever happened.

Colonel Cassad says it was a diversion by UKIes. Even that might not be true. the image from BBC is not enough to tell anything: what happened, where, who did it, when, why (Common questions a journalist should begin with). Again, we know nothing. Even if the event "breach in a dam" is true, according to that photo, no one downstream is in any danger. Even pontoon bridges will be as they were.

Please, no panic, no need for it.

Posted by: zidar | Sep 15 2022 14:31 utc | 89

"I suppose the goalposts [for the SMO] have moved yet again..."

Nope, that was you NATO-tards setting up new goalposts after the first ones were demolished. The Ukraine is effectively demilitarized of its own weaponry, which means that the killing would essentially be over by now if you ghouls hadn't poured more weaponry into the mix. From this point on, all of the dead Ukroids (and the dead among your own Special Forces that you pretend are not in the Ukraine, even though you know they are there) are on you. Your hands are dripping their blood. When some schmuck from your country's military who imagined himself a superhero gets shredded by shrapnel and lies bleeding out in agony in some wheat field thousands of miles from his friends and loved ones, remember that you did that, not the Russians. That Special Forces schmuck should never have been in that wheat field to filter shrapnel out of the air with his body in the first place. You NATO-tards are responsible for him being there.

Sleep well, troll scum.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 15 2022 14:36 utc | 90

@ 81 with the report from Sky News

I wanted to share this three and a half minute video from Sky News where an enthusiastic Sky News reporter is explaining the hugeness of the “dramatic” (appropriate word choice I think) recent Ukrainian victory. He speaks in front of a gi-normous map, which is necessary to properly view the dramatic Ukrainian victory, and talks of how the Ukrainians could try to get behind the Russians (into Russian territory), instead of attacking straight on, and disrupt the land bridge Russia has built. The whole thing comes off as rather silly, actually hilarious maybe even downright hysterical IMHO.

https://youtu.be/oTYDzSrSGgM

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Sep 15 2022 14:36 utc | 91

Gerrard White @82

Posted my reply to your two earlier sends and had yet to read your full coverage. Overall take on the SCO confab is that there is a new Big Dog in town. At present, the thrust is primarily economic, as it should be. The collective puppet regimes in the West must be tearing their hair out over this development. I$rael in particular will now become a bit chary about any further notions of nuking Iran.

Even the shotcallers in City of London and Wall $treet must be reviewing every bottom line in sight.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 15 2022 14:38 utc | 92

fuck putin, the coward and stupid liar who kills thousands of russian soldiers and russia supporters..

who is so stupid and still believes in liar and loser Putin?? hahahahahahaha

day for day US will get more supporters, because russia totally failed in Ukraine.. hahahaha

russia was not even able to protect supporters around Charkov, around Kiev etc – how should they protect “partners” hundreds of kilometers away from Russia?? hahahahahahaha

Russia escaped from Kiev, Russia escaped from Charkov and Russia will also escape from Syria, from Armenia and many other places.. and Putin will escape from Moscow to Wladiwostok again when the next Ukrainian attack comes.. hahahaha

Putin, what a coward bastard – the russian soldiers and supporters must die while he is protected thousands of km away.. hahahahahaha

everybody could see how weak russia is – not strong enough to recognise where Ukraine will do the counter-strikes, not strong enough to destroy ukrainian infrastructure, not strong enough to destroy weapon deliveries from the West, not strong enough to catch Ukrainian politicians and not strong enough to react on crossed red-lines.. hahahahahaha

Russia, a 3rd world shithole with incompetent leaders like Putin, Schoigu and Lawrow and permant drunk idiots leading the weak and coward, gay army to final break-down.. hahahahahahah

russia will end as idiots-colony for delivering oil, gas etc for free to the West and putin-cheerleaders like you will have to work for the west for free.. hahahahahaha

everybody who is too gay and too coward and too stupid to fight will end as slave of Biden.. hahahahahaha

but maybe you all should do it like Putin – please follow the escaping russian soldiers to Wladivostok where you have 2 more weeks time until the ukrainian soldiers will find all of you- stupid supporters of a gay traitor.. hahahahahaha..

and don’t forget: NEVER SUPPORT A ZENSOR-SITE LIKE SOUTHFRONT!!!!!

Posted by: joe9211 | Sep 15 2022 14:51 utc | 93

Too much trolling:
Too many barflies bothering to engage with trolls in endless pseudo dialogs ...
The blog is becoming illegible, devoid of any information or real debate.
it seems obvious that clvers barflies refrain from posting here these days ...
Too bad.
Browsing quickly Telegram brings much more info in minutes ...
Sorry about that!

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Sep 15 2022 12:15 utc | 37

Have to agree.

Posted by: Michigan Dude | Sep 15 2022 14:52 utc | 94

Posted by: joe9211 | Sep 15 2022 14:51 utc | 93

Wrong site. You're supposed to be posting over in the Yahoo comments section.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 15 2022 14:54 utc | 95

zidar @ 89

This is why Ukraine allows almost no journalists near the front. Those few who go briefly are very closely supervised. Russia allows all sorts of journos. Most are loyal but by stupidity and sheer volume this and that get through.

My understanding was an earthen dam 205 meters long across a not that big river. Is this correct? Someone knows but they may not be standing near a megaphone.

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 15 2022 14:59 utc | 96

Michigan Dude | 15. September 2022 14:52 UTC | 94

there are no clever barflies here.. I read only putin-fanboys who believe all lies about the russian SMO without accepting any other arguments.. all here think that they are the only ones knowing what happens and that russia is so clever and all their actions are traps for zelensky ;-) what a stupid brainless cheerleading..

Posted by: joe9211 | Sep 15 2022 15:02 utc | 97

Pro ukro trolls seem mad today. I would think after such an amazing offensive theyd be exstatic. Weird

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 15 2022 15:10 utc | 98

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Sep 15 2022 12:15 utc | 37

Clever barflies are all banned and replaced with trolls. It's a feature, not a bug.

Posted by: Jimmy Flies By | Sep 15 2022 15:10 utc | 99

"Too much trolling:"

Its like an old ship galley, turn the lights on and all the roaches stampeed like crazy.

So many things happening, this one might not be related to Ukraine but what do you make of the latest covid scandal with the Lancet stating what many suspect, that it might be a leak from a US lab.

I think this post by Prilepin will settle the damned dam controversy, the operation is not shock and awe and the proof is that VonDer is today in Kiev, and many wondered why they let the cock piano player roam around Izyum like if nothing would be happening, the answer, Putin is a gentleman and he is not going to hang Saddam or sodomize Gadhafi with a knife, he is going to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine, that’s it.

https://t.me/zakharprilepin/14635

Posted by: Paco | Sep 15 2022 15:17 utc | 100

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