News & views related to the Ukraine conflict.
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September 25, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-157
News & views related to the Ukraine conflict. Please stick to the topic. The current open thread for other issues is here.
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Concerning Questions I have about EuroLand. Posted by: Syler | Sep 25 2022 18:11 utc | 101 Posted by: too scents | Sep 25 2022 17:36 utc | 89
Woops! Knew I was missing something. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 25 2022 18:11 utc | 102 Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 25 2022 13:02 utc | 5 Posted by: Guernica | Sep 25 2022 18:12 utc | 103 Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 25 2022 16:55 utc | 71
This should be covered by the decades old Russian policy on nuclear weapons use: Conventional weapons attack on the Russian heartland by NATO (and it’s allies) will result in a nuclear response against the US mainland. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 25 2022 18:16 utc | 104 https://www.rt.com/news/563489-cia-75-anniversary-history/ Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Sep 25 2022 18:22 utc | 105 The linked essay by Ukraine’s Zaluzhni and Zabrodsky could receive top marks for resolve and tactical optimism, but its bottom line is that the successful “repulsion” of RF forces ”will require significant material resources and financial costs for a long time to come” (I.e. $$$ hundreds of billions), presumedly bankrolled by its western sponsors. The success of the plan also requires the complete expulsion of RF personnel and presumedly civilians from Crimea, and assumes the arrival of long-range missile systems from NATO able to attack population centres deep in Russian territory (without countervailing response). Cannot see that happening. Posted by: jayc | Sep 25 2022 18:23 utc | 106 The way the MSM reports the ‘Russians recruiting convicts’ story is designed to be another example of Russian barbarism. There are no details about the actual convicts. Do they volunteer? Are they forced? Obviously the RF will weed out drug addicts and psychopaths. Posted by: Guernica | Sep 25 2022 18:25 utc | 107 The turnout is sufficient after day 3: Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 25 2022 18:26 utc | 108 Dumb fucks. Posted by: jpc | Sep 25 2022 18:27 utc | 109 @Chaka Khagan #43 Posted by: c1ue | Sep 25 2022 18:30 utc | 111 Posted by: Syler | Sep 25 2022 18:11 utc | 100 Posted by: unimperator | Sep 25 2022 18:30 utc | 112 how soon before Germany mobilizes? Posted by: jpc | Sep 25 2022 18:31 utc | 113 #109 Posted by: Nico | Sep 25 2022 18:32 utc | 114 I don’t see any way to step back from mobilization. I guess this is what Vucic was aware of. I wonder how many hothead Serbs will fly to Russia/Ukraine now? They are keen to bash NATO in revenge. They might make excellent saboteurs. Posted by: Wokechoke | Sep 25 2022 18:34 utc | 115 They are the only credible counterweight to Russian mobilization. Posted by: Wokechoke | Sep 25 2022 18:35 utc | 116 @La Bastille #90 Posted by: c1ue | Sep 25 2022 18:37 utc | 117 @94 dh Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 25 2022 18:38 utc | 118
David Rockefeller, not Nelson was the last public face of the dynasty. He died in 2016, the same year Trump was selected. A former Democrat, Trump could never been selected if the Rockefellers still controlled the Republican Party, as they had for many decades.
As for Blackrock, see: Posted by: Opport Knocks | Sep 25 2022 18:39 utc | 119 @106 Guernica “If you seek you will find all the answers to your convict questions, and much more; I know I did.” Posted by: dh | Sep 25 2022 18:40 utc | 120 Posted by: plangner | Sep 25 2022 13:34 utc | 13 Posted by: UncleTom | Sep 25 2022 18:41 utc | 121 @100 Syler Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 25 2022 18:46 utc | 122 I think Russia should make a clear threat: Posted by: Nico | Sep 25 2022 18:48 utc | 123 … Frankly, Opport, I’m beginning to wonder about just where you happen to be coming from. Perhaps you simply are ignorant as to what goes on behind the scenes. Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 25 2022 18:49 utc | 124 @ c1ue | Sep 25 2022 18:37 utc | 116 Posted by: La Bastille | Sep 25 2022 18:51 utc | 125 ” However, Russia has no defense against this and cant respond in kind ? Doesnt seem logical. There must be something else at play. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Sep 25 2022 19:04 utc | 126 This should be covered by the decades old Russian policy on nuclear weapons use: Conventional weapons attack on the Russian heartland by NATO (and it’s allies) will result in a nuclear response against the US mainland. Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 25 2022 19:05 utc | 127 It might, however, the warning came from the ZioAmericans implying they would strike, therefore, the retaliation would be against the US not Ukraine. Why is the US issuing threats seemingly unafraid of retaliation ? Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 25 2022 19:09 utc | 128 With the US putting nuclear warnings into the news cycle, I think there is a real possibility of a nuclear false flag. The Western public has been prepared with the “Russia losing and desperate” narrative. The US would respond to the false flag immediately, before anyone can show where it truly originated, as they did in Syria. For instance, otherwise reputable people still say that Russia simply invaded Georgia without placing it within any context. Perhaps 9/11 gave them the idea (proved?) that the historical record will be whatever they say it is. How else can they “win” this ? Posted by: FarminChimp | Sep 25 2022 19:09 utc | 129 Dumb fucks. Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 25 2022 19:10 utc | 130 Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 25 2022 17:32 utc | 86 Posted by: tonyopmoc | Sep 25 2022 19:13 utc | 131 @ Deplorable Commissar | Sep 25 2022 19:04 utc | 125 Posted by: dfg | Sep 25 2022 19:16 utc | 132 Pompeo is soon off to Taiwan again: Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Sep 25 2022 19:16 utc | 133
I seem to recall reading that the political stooge in question was Arlen Specter. Posted by: David Levin | Sep 25 2022 19:18 utc | 134
LOL… I see you are having more flashbacks to the 1970s. The Rockefeller Brothers Family Trusts exited all their oil investments in 2014-16, in a very public manner. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Sep 25 2022 19:20 utc | 135 23k Hasidic Jews are on their way to Uman, Ukraine, for the annual celebration to the Tomb of Rabbi Nachman, an 18th century prophet. Posted by: WTFUD | Sep 25 2022 19:22 utc | 136 Washington giving Kiev more sophisticated weapons. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 25 2022 19:22 utc | 137 Night Tripper | 25 septembre 2022 16:06 UTC | 50 Posted by: la bouteille | Sep 25 2022 19:26 utc | 138 To move millions of cubic meter of LNG.
Posted by: La Bastille | Sep 25 2022 19:27 utc | 139 how soon before Germany mobilizes? Posted by: ZX | Sep 25 2022 19:28 utc | 140 @1 why would the Russians have a shortage of willing fighters when Russian polls show most Russians agree with Putin and the ongoing fighting in Ukraine? Putin is popular in Russia and in most parts of the world. President Putin is popular Everywhere but in the west. To most of the world he is seen as a hero fighting the evil Europe and the devil called America Posted by: Mr chums | Sep 25 2022 19:29 utc | 141
It seems to me that such activities would be incompatible with Russian leaders’ expressed support for principles underlying a multi-polar world (such as respect for other nations’ sovereignty). Posted by: David Levin | Sep 25 2022 19:30 utc | 142 #136 Posted by: Nico | Sep 25 2022 19:33 utc | 143 Plangner @ 13 Posted by: Paul Damascene | Sep 25 2022 19:33 utc | 144 CarlD@65: Posted by: morongobill | Sep 25 2022 19:34 utc | 145 Would add that Russia is facilitating citizenship for volunteers willing to fight in armed forces, so that could be additional tens of thousands. Posted by: Paul Damascene | Sep 25 2022 19:37 utc | 146 The chatter in the West about Putin’s “threat” of nuclear weapons is growing every day. Posted by: WJ | Sep 25 2022 19:52 utc | 147
Another great laugh, y’all are on a roll today. My close Canadian friends falsely attribute my pro-Russian views to the fact that I live with one who thinks Putin is the best Russian leader in over 200 years. As for “clandestine sponsorship”, she does make a fabulous Borscht and other Eastern European dishes. There is the aroma of homemade bay leaf infused chicken stock in the house right now. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Sep 25 2022 19:52 utc | 148 Opport knocks@118: Posted by: morongobill | Sep 25 2022 19:53 utc | 149 Posted by: La Bastille | Sep 25 2022 19:27 utc | 138 Posted by: UncleTom | Sep 25 2022 19:55 utc | 150 Posted by: Syler | Sep 25 2022 18:11 utc | 100 Posted by: Guernica | Sep 25 2022 20:02 utc | 151 But I worry that something else is afoot. I imagine there are elements in State Department that want to push Russia into using a tactical nuclear device in Europe as a way of instigating a full-on war between Russia and NATO in Europe. Posted by: jpc | Sep 25 2022 20:06 utc | 152 America’s going for the biggie. Nuclear war between NATO and Russia. That’s basically the meaning of Jake Sullivan’s words today. Posted by: Rudi | Sep 25 2022 20:09 utc | 153 Given current developments and the continuation of the NATO-Kiev regime, I’d be afraid to remain in Kiev any longer. Posted by: dfg | Sep 25 2022 20:09 utc | 154 @ Chaka Khagan 132 Posted by: WTFUD | Sep 25 2022 20:16 utc | 155 To those who criticise the SMO as being a failure in regard to achieving the strategic aims as outlined at the beginning, I don’t think that’s entirely accurate. I believe the Russian military has been wildly successful in demilitarising Ukraine, efficiently destroying it as an effective fighting force. But that is only applicable in relation to the Ukrainian military as it stood in Feb 2022. I believe the Russians were expecting this conflict to evolve into an insurgency once the standing army was demilitarised. If not for continual resupply of its destroyed hardware by the US led West then this would have been over long ago. This is the crux of the issue, the unending amount of support from the West. Russia knew the West would keep supplying the Ukies but the bottomless level of support is really unprecedented and I believe has been far greater than anticipated by the Russians. You could say that this was obvious long ago but that was before the Ukies launched an offensive that many commentators said they were incapable of doing. Plus it’s obvious to anyone with basic knowledge that Russia has always had massive escalatory capacity so the Russians have probably thought the obvious fact that only they can win this conflict would see the West accept the obvious and stand down. But rational people aren’t in control in the West so the Russians have decided that ‘okay then, we go next level’. Posted by: JohnG | Sep 25 2022 20:16 utc | 156 Because of my long interest and involvement in the legalise cannabis issue I took an interest in Russell Bongo Bentley a few years ago and occaisionally watch his videos (He was correct in predicting the SMO a week or two before it happened). I have full respect for his actions and commitment, but have small reservations about him seeming to be a “in gun we trust” ‘merican. He clearly is very passionate about what he does and patience is probably not his strong suit. Posted by: tucenz | Sep 25 2022 20:17 utc | 157 He kind of reminds me of a young Joe Biden, now I think of it. Posted by: jpc | Sep 25 2022 20:20 utc | 158 The US State Department, DoD, White House and Brussels have gone mad. Absolutely, totally insane. God save the world. Posted by: jpc | Sep 25 2022 20:23 utc | 159 Posted by: WTFUD | Sep 25 2022 19:22 utc | 135 Posted by: hopehely | Sep 25 2022 20:24 utc | 160 Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Sep 25 2022 15:47 utc | 43 Posted by: UncleTom | Sep 25 2022 20:27 utc | 161 A request for information about an earlier posting. Posted by: Quentin | Sep 25 2022 20:31 utc | 162 ‼️🇺🇦🇷🇺The Ukrainian armed forces threw armored groups into demilitarisation in the DPR in vain, trying to surround Lyman Posted by: unimperator | Sep 25 2022 20:34 utc | 163 Posted by: Opport Knocks | Sep 25 2022 19:20 utc | 134 Posted by: tonyopmoc | Sep 25 2022 20:37 utc | 164 @156 tucenz Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 25 2022 20:42 utc | 165 In my experience, when someone warns someone in public that they better not do something nefarious, it’s because that first someone is about to do it, or has done it and kept news thereof on the qt. This is my thought when Biden people warn Russia against using nukes. Besides, in this case it’s a weak move, Russia already warned Biden people not to use nukes. Posted by: The Rev. David R. Gr | Sep 25 2022 20:49 utc | 167 @Jack “People say that the US is being hurt by the sanctions on Russia. Posted by: ian | Sep 25 2022 20:50 utc | 168 Why is the US issuing threats seemingly unafraid of retaliation ? Posted by: Pagan | Sep 25 2022 20:52 utc | 169 Posted by: unimperator | Sep 25 2022 18:30 utc | 111 Posted by: RTX | Sep 25 2022 20:57 utc | 170 Strelkov is going on about Russia declaring war. That won’t happen unless NATO actually attacks Russia directly. He’s not factoring in what a declaration of war means under the UN system and international law. Declaring war would make it almost impossible for any other country to continue supporting Russia. It’s the same reason why Ukraine hasn’t declared war on Russia. It’s why nobody declares war. And it sure as shit is why Putin of all people won’t be declaring war. Posted by: Lex | Sep 25 2022 20:59 utc | 171 Incredible long piece of drivel. Definitely a paid info warrior. Posted by: Surferket | Sep 25 2022 21:16 utc | 172
I remember the “Club of Rome” days, that was during my University Years and it was closely followed in the Faculty of Environmental Studies. Maurice Strong was the high profile Canadian member of the group. Unlike many, I do not find the discussion of eugenicist ideas “abhorrent”, but its practice along ethno-cultural lines most certainly is. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Sep 25 2022 21:21 utc | 173 fyi Posted by: michaelj72 | Sep 25 2022 21:26 utc | 174 I just want to say that all this talk about recruiting convicts to the Army is merely a smokescreen. The UK Army has convicted criminals in its army as does the USA. Posted by: Jo Dominich | Sep 25 2022 21:29 utc | 175 Boris Johnson isn’t stupid either. I have never actually seen him in the flesh, but my wife has, whilst shopping in Croydon. Posted by: tonyopmoc | Sep 25 2022 21:58 utc | 176 I see Africa was belatedly noticed in the thread discussion. Barflies must have missed this, “‘Attack on Russia is Attack on Africa’, Ugandan Commander of Land Forces Says”:
Too bad more info isn’t available, although IMO Uganda’s sentiments are shared by many African nations. Posted by: tonyopmoc | Sep 25 2022 21:58 utc | 176 Posted by: watcher | Sep 25 2022 22:03 utc | 178 Referendums mandate mobilization Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 25 2022 22:13 utc | 179 From 8 years ago: Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Sep 25 2022 22:14 utc | 180 When the leaves change then fall the Ukrops lose their cover and they will be bombed to smithereens. Posted by: Lou Cypher | Sep 25 2022 22:21 utc | 181 “President Putin is popular Everywhere but in the west.” Posted by: AParadiseLost | Sep 25 2022 22:22 utc | 182 Tom cUcK’s reply at 121 made me laugh. What a buffoon. Posted by: RDF2 | Sep 25 2022 22:23 utc | 183 All this talk of Russia’s first use of tactical nukes feels like a set up–first because Russia has several rungs of the escalation dominance ladder it can climb first, & has no clear time pressures–contrary to the West, which has few non-nuclear escalation steps it can take, and time seems very much against them. Posted by: Paul Damascene | Sep 25 2022 22:23 utc | 184 “Some observers suggest NATO directs the sacrifice of Ukraine people to weaken Russia, while NATO leaders stay safe. People with “no skin in the game” make the decisions for others.” Posted by: RDF2 | Sep 25 2022 22:33 utc | 185 Paul @184 Posted by: polarbear4 | Sep 25 2022 22:33 utc | 186 @Paul Damascene #184, genuinely curious what escalations you think Russia has available on the conventional side? Attacking NATO countries would bring NATO into the war, so that won’t happen. No air superiority means no strategic bombers or fighter-bomber raids behind the front line. Whatever Ukraine & partners are doing to hand off weapons seems to include excellent opsec so those can’t be interdicted with cruise missiles unless they get lucky – and it’s not reluctance, because Russia was willing to hit that foreign legion base near Lviv early in the war. Attacking “decision making centers” is floated frequently but Kyiv has excellent air defense and cruise missiles won’t take out the bunkered HQs anyway. Posted by: Yenwoda | Sep 25 2022 22:38 utc | 187 Posted by: watcher | Sep 25 2022 22:03 utc | 178 Posted by: tonyopmoc | Sep 25 2022 22:43 utc | 188 @ 58 Nicodemus Posted by: Maximus | Sep 25 2022 22:43 utc | 189 Posted by: Michigan Dude | Sep 25 2022 15:24 utc | 36 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Sep 25 2022 22:56 utc | 190 When my dad was 17 he liked to fight. During one brawl he seriously injured somebody. The judge gave him the choice of Juvee and jail or Vietnam. He chose Vietnam. Posted by: Haassaan | Sep 25 2022 22:58 utc | 191 @188 Probably best if you stick to accounts of your wife’s exciting shopping adventures. 🙂 Posted by: dh | Sep 25 2022 23:02 utc | 192 It’s more than likely that RU seriously beefing up their grouping in Ukraine will actually further reduce their losses. As these will be armed with hundreds, if not thousands additional artillery, tanks and integrated air defense systems. It will reduce the strain on the mobile defense groups currently acting as certain kind of fire brigades, and make easier to set up and fortify more static defense lines. Posted by: unimperator | Sep 25 2022 23:03 utc | 193 Posted by: Yenwoda | Sep 25 2022 22:38 utc | 187 Posted by: watcher | Sep 25 2022 23:21 utc | 194 Why do European men let women lead them in everything these days? Posted by: Nobody | Sep 25 2022 23:28 utc | 195 LATEST ON THE REFERENDA Posted by: HERMIUS | Sep 25 2022 23:30 utc | 196 This is about taking measures, to try and avoid my family freezing to death in the coming (I suspect) artic, very cold winter Posted by: tonyopmoc | Sep 25 2022 23:40 utc | 197 Posted by: Muthaucker | Sep 25 2022 23:36 utc | 197 Posted by: watcher | Sep 25 2022 23:47 utc | 198 The 300,000 have been mobilised – within 48 hours of the announcement. Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 25 2022 23:50 utc | 199 @15 tucenz Posted by: Xeen | Sep 26 2022 0:18 utc | 200 |
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