Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 22, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-155

News & views related to the Ukraine conflict.

Please stick to the topic.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Posted by b on September 22, 2022 at 10:34 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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@Tom UK | Sep 22 2022 15:32 utc | 95
World wars are kind of bad for business.
Sure, Smedley Butler was wrong saying that war is a racket, uh-huh. (NOT)

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 22 2022 15:44 utc | 101

@ Ivan: You got that right. I think quite a bit of the F.U.D. is being stokes by the usual suspects to sow panic in the populace. The EU is indeed toast...I wonder if sovereign nations will peel away from the EU in an attempt to save their people. Something would have to give though because most of the leaders do not seem to care about the general populace.

Posted by: Chevrus | Sep 22 2022 15:54 utc | 102

Posted by: McAgnew | Sep 22 2022 13:26 utc | 51

I think you give the American public more credit than we deserve. Where I live (out in the sticks), I haven’t heard anyone even mention Russia/Ukraine in several months. The only “current affairs” talk I hear is about how bad the economy is.

Available polling supports your assertion:

Russia, China on the Back Burner: Americans’ limited concern about the war in Ukraine and the trajectory of U.S.-China relations is firmly bipartisan. Only 18% to 32% of voters place either issue among their top five concerns.
SOURCE:
https://morningconsult.com/united-states-foreign-policy-tracker/


Generally, Americans would like to see less American military involvement in the world overall:

57% of respondents oppose (strongly or somewhat) direct American military intervention in the war in Ukraine while only 14% percent support (strongly or somewhat).
42% of respondents would like to see less American military involvement abroad. Only 7% would support more engagement.
A plurality of respondents said Biden should make lowering or eliminating inflation his top priority (40%). Conversely, only 2% believe that ensuring a defeat of Russia in Ukraine should be the President’s main priority.
Notably, when compared to a similar poll conducted in July, American sentiment on the Russia-Ukraine war has remained largely unchanged – only about a quarter of the American public support directly involving the U.S. military in the Russia-Ukraine war, with more than twice as many people opposing.

SOURCE:
https://cv4a.org/news-media/new-poll-americans-want-wealthy-european-countries-to-step-up-provide-aid-to-ukraine-wary-of-direct-intervention-in-conflict/


Given the majority of Americans express greater concern over their own economic circumstance (and a high degree of indifference toward the geo-politics of 404) I fail to understand how sending billions to 404 is a positive platform heading into the mid-terms.

The MIC may all vote for Biden but the rest of the country appears less than enthused. Blaming Putin appears difficult given Biden's executive orders on taking office - cancelling pipelines and O&G leasing. I can understand Joe Average asking "Why billions for Z and none for me?"

The alternate explanation is that the West is totally FUBAR.

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 22 2022 15:56 utc | 103

The Globalists want this war to expand. Thus, the war will not only continue, it will expand. No treaties. No negotiations. This is for everything. Let's hope Russia ends the Globalist Empire.

Posted by: Leroy | Sep 22 2022 15:59 utc | 104

Putin has been charged with being incoherent and grasping. Uwe Parpart at Asia Times disagrees, succinctly . .

. . .Putin made clear as the driven snows to come that he knows that the West – and first and foremost the US – does not want a strategic settlement but rather the destruction and decapitation of the Russia he has long led.
Putin will therefore no longer fight a limited war and can be expected to deploy the entirety of his resources to win the fight. The final sentence in his speech was very clear: Putin now sees himself in the historical line of Russian leaders who saved the Motherland from destruction. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 22 2022 16:01 utc | 105

Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 22 2022 15:32 utc | 95

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but your comments on this thread have exposed you as an idiot and tool of western propaganda. Yes it is possible to take a generally non-partisan view of the events in Ukraine, to be anti-war/imperial across the board, etc. But that's not what you're doing. World Wars are not bad for business. Vast fortunes are made in world wars. Why after the last world war, western companies got western governments to pay them for the investments they had in Nazi germany and lost to the war. World wars are the most opportune time for directing huge sums of public money into private pockets.

And your comments on mobilization in Russia are obviously straight from the most extreme propaganda networks. So either you believe those networks or you have a reason to promote their content. Of course there are Russian propaganda networks and no they shouldn't be believed any more than Ukrainian or UK/US/NATO propaganda networks.

Posted by: Lex | Sep 22 2022 16:05 utc | 106

Just now finished viewing an interview with Col. Douglas McGregor on Judge Napolitano's site "Judging Freedom". Got the link via today's Rense. It was not my intention to view the entire 24 minutes. However, McGregor's insights and views on the entire situation in Ukraine and now Russia's partial mobilization and the four referendums, kept me glued to his words. IMHO McGregor hits more critical points and realizations than any of the other analysts I've viewed or read.

So it's a Four Star revue for McGregor, as he's deeply informed, with an excellent military background and best of all, he does not speculate without a sound data base and neither does he bullshit or hem and haw. Solid.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 22 2022 16:05 utc | 107

There is an Admiral (4 star) Eric Thor Olson. SEAL and Special Ops. There is also a Major General Eric Thorne Olson. Yes, Eric Thor and Eric Thorne. Just a coinkydink. It happens. And it is hard to tell them apart in photos. Not related to each other. Whatever. You in the market for buying some bridges?

You will never have any solid information about Eric T. Olson.

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 22 2022 15:35 utc | 97

Thanks for that, I take it your position is that the Olson reference is just static that came up from a sketchy photo-identification? I’m happy to accept that interpretation because, as least from my perspective, Cloutier and Cadieu were the names that came up strongly during the siege whereas Olson was a name that I came across after the siege, when I was searching for updates on the other two.

Given this prisoner exchange, I wonder if Cadieu will finally show his Canadian face to the world. Out of interest. how long does it take to Xanax PTSD out of someone?

Bridges, do tell!

Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 22 2022 16:07 utc | 108

Posted by: Kareem | Sep 22 2022 11:24 utc | 9

Kareem, in your post you seem so, so, well what is the word? CONCERNED! And you are concerned from a "leftist" perspective as best as I can tell; but who knows? Many concerned people on this site seem to talk in circles rather than just getting to straight to the point.

Posted by: Guernica | Sep 22 2022 16:10 utc | 109

Who can not honestly recognize the obviousness of the false nature of this war as a whole?

Posted by: Silvanus | Sep 22 2022 11:50 utc | 16

Nice eliding of the history of the conflict, from word-breaking NATO-expansion to the East, to the 2005 coup, to the (worse) 2014 coup (complete with overt "neo-Nazi" units organized, armed, trained and "advised" on terrorization and the use of civilian "human shields" by NATO, ie the US), to US military bioweapons-labs, to eight years of NATO-funded and professedly genocidal war, to "peace-candidate" Z's treaty-violating announcement that his regime would begin its own nuclear-weapons program, to the Minsk treaties never intended to be fulfilled, to the "up-tick" in February with apparent plan to _circle around through the RF_ to take the LDPR from the rear.

Posted by: John Kennard | Sep 22 2022 16:10 utc | 110

@98 gottlieb

It was a joke, mate. Lighten up.

Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 22 2022 16:12 utc | 111

Sushi@103

Though I hold a most very dim view on national elections in general, as both the DNC and RNC are totally beholden to and controlled by the Bank$ter shotcallers and their ownership of both the WarDefense Industry and Big Oil; my take from these polls and interviews of an American public disinterested or opposed to contemporary U$$A foreign policy is this:

All non-Rino Republicans and dissident Democrats (of the Tulsi Gabbard stripe) should campaign heavily on getting elected to quit with the stupidity in Ukraine and other foreign entanglements on behalf of those who have waaaaay too much money and who run the mass media and the pro$titicians in the Di$trict of Corruption.

Something like: "Why should we spend all this money on overseas adventures, when food prices are skyrocketing and the number of people living in or near poverty levels keeps growing and growing." "Vote out the war-mongers and let's take care of Americans first."

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 22 2022 16:13 utc | 112

Don Bacon@105

V.V. Putin is a genuine statesman, one in the mold of Furst Otto Von Bismarck. The Russian Narod do not see him in that Germanic mode, rather as a Suvorov , Zhukov or Potemkin, but primarily as a "Good Tsar".

Ironically, the Russian President is not an autocrat and certainly not a dictator, as he must answer to the Duma, which fairly well represents the hopes and wishes of the vast majority of the Russian people.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 22 2022 16:18 utc | 113

From IntelSlava

🇷🇺🇺🇦 before the referenda.

1. Tomorrow, referendums on reunification with Russia will begin in the DPR, LPR, Kherson region and Zaporozhye region. Residents are invited to either agree or refuse to join the Russian Federation as a subject.

2. Current sociology shows that the answers will be positive, and in the LPR and DPR, overwhelmingly positive. Which, among other things, is due to the unrealistically long wait for this choice, which Crimea got almost for free, and in the LDNR they waited 8 years and fought for this choice.

3. We can expect a sharp increase in shelling of civilian infrastructure by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, terrorist attacks and murders. Undoubtedly, Ukrainian terrorists will kill a certain number of civilians in the coming days, which of course will not change either the very fact of holding referendums or their outcome. After the referenda, a full-fledged CTO regime will most likely be introduced in the new territories of the Russian Federation and the filtration of former ATO officers and other bastards will begin.
4. Bulletins in the DPR and LPR only in Russian, in Zaporozhye and Kherson regions in Russian and Ukrainian. The choice is simple - Yes or No. Both in Russian and Ukrainian.

5. Residents of these regions, who are located on the territory of the Russian Federation, will be able to vote on the territory of Russia. We have already prepared 4 points for voting in Sevastopol. So the refugees are exercising their right to vote, and the hope of Ukrainian terrorists that the refugees who fled the shelling by the very fact of their absence will lower their turnout at the vote will not come true.

6. After September 27, within 1 to 5 days, the results will be calculated and after their official announcement, applications will be submitted for joining Russia. which will be promptly accepted. This will ensure legal irreversibility, since by accepting these regions into the Russian Federation, any attempts to challenge their new status will be a direct violation of the Constitution, as well as touch upon issues of nuclear doctrine.

7. Accordingly, having passed through a bifurcation point with mobilization, Russia in the next week will rapidly pass another one, connected with the consolidation of the expansion of its borders.

🔗 Boris rozhin

Posted by: Down South | Sep 22 2022 16:19 utc | 114

Sushi@14

‘If Biden acts in a way that triggers an escalated response from RF the American public will ask "Why did you provoke someone you described as a madman?" "Are you totally irresponsible and incapable of understanding your own pronouncements?"’

I think you give the American public more credit than we deserve. Where I live (out in the sticks), I haven’t heard anyone even mention Russia/Ukraine in several months. The only “current affairs” talk I hear is about how bad the economy is.

Posted by: McAgnew | Sep 22 2022 13:26 utc | 51

I agree with you, only I think that we don't deserve credit because we have become, by and large, a nation of brain dead morons. I live in the sticks also and look around and shake my head.

Washington is going to do whatever it wants re: Ukraine regardless of what we think anyways. I predict that won't change if the Republicans take Congress.

Posted by: Michigan Dude | Sep 22 2022 16:19 utc | 115

More updates: “Buryatia reports mobilization hell - people are being taken from out of beds, it will soon look during WWII with only females, infants and seniors in most villages.” - so far, this is coming from various local sources.

Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 22 2022 16:19 utc | 116

So, " who surrendered will be held indefinitely in Turkey rather than extradited to Kiev."

Mind you, Turkish jails are quite unpleasant places...

Posted by: zidar | Sep 22 2022 16:21 utc | 117

anon2020 @ 108

Um, not exactly. Being a 4 star and having headed SOCOM I do tend to think that Eric Thor Olson does in fact exist. Putting a complete mirage in charge of all that would not work too well.

But much more than that it is immediately shootout in hall of mirrors time. We are not supposed to know and we really can't know. We could spin stories all day long about who or what we saw in those photos (we likely saw same photos) and that is the point of the exercise. We were allowed to see something of which we can never make much sense. That much was on purpose. The guy was head of Special Operations. Could he run a special operation? Featuring himself? The operation was directed at you and me. Our best response is to walk away.

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 22 2022 16:27 utc | 118

Apparently Russia's Ministry of Energy orders 100% of employees in national energy, metal and mineral companies to show up at military recruitment offices. Not sure that makes sense?

Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 22 2022 16:28 utc | 119

The alternate explanation is that the West is totally FUBAR.

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 22 2022 15:56 utc | 103

Another alternative suggestion, which all you very intelligent people here keep refusing to consider seriously regarding it as tinfoil hat territory, is that the US and most other major Western powers are deliberately crashing their polities. In order to do so successfully it has to appear that they are not doing so deliberately and thus need a boogeyman which of course Putin has been portrayed as for many years now. The last thing they need now before the mid-terms is a settlement because then the focus will be on the sorry state of affairs domestically - which has rarely been worse in over half a century if you add up all the serious problems and is steadily worsening - and who is responsible for that, namely the current administration, their war policy in Ukraine, their immigration policies on the border, their energy policies, their no-bail-no-jail policies and so on.

By 'crashing the polities' I mean this is much more than the typical redistribution of relative capital accumulation with strong players flushing out weak ones and buying assets at discounted prices. No, this is literally crashing the current governance systems ushering in a new polity, perhaps shared among many current sovereign republics and states, which gets rid of now antiquated individual sovereignty norms including habeas corpus, privacy and personal property rights including self defense and so forth and substitutes it with some sort of woke-aligned soft fascist polity with an entirely different view and ethos.

But of course if you insist on believing that the USG and ruling elites desire to maintain a strong state with a stable, steadily growing economy for the well-being of their people, well then nothing they are doing now makes any sense. The only explanation left is that all leaders, corporate and public, in all Western countries are unbelievably incompetent.

Some focus on the incompetence and others, like myself, focus on the unbelievability (as in: I don't believe it)! Of course there is rampant incompetence in mature societies entering a decadence phase, but there is not ONLY stupidity at play here.

Or: maybe we just have bad water filtration systems and nobody has noticed?

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2022 16:29 utc | 120

Lex@106

Major wars are the primary source of corporate welfare in the U$$A. Take for example, the Dupont corporation in Delaware. Before the 1st WW, Dupont was doing okay in the dynamite industry and somewhat so in providing other militarily applicable, but mostly civilian use of smokeless powder and similar innovations.

WWI MADE Dupont into a monster. First, it was to cooperate with J.P. Morgan's control over both Winchester and Remington's ammo production for the Western allies, primarily the British. Morgan, as the cognoscenti are well aware, was long a prime minion of the Rottenchild Crime Clan headquartered in City of London.

In order for Dupont to massively upgrade production, the U$$A War Industries Board came up with hundreds of millions, if not billions to build new plants and facilities for that corporation. Ultimately, before the Versailles Treaty was signed commencing with Armistice Day (11-11-18) Dupont, thanks to Federal largesse and the new Income Tax Act of 1916 (as a Constitutional Amendment, mind you) had turned into a monster.

Right at war's end, General Motors was created by certain interested parties. Which newly minted American crime clan ended up as the largest shareholder (by far) in that soon to be dominant automotive corporation? Nope. This time it was not the Rottenfeller Crime Clan (they were kept busy by their other monopolies) but, of course, the Duponts. Soon enough, Dupont established themselves in the chemicalization of the agricultural industry when they came up with the largest selling type of corn seeds, Pioneer Hybrids, the Dupont machine called them.

The Dupont Frankenstein Monster corporation got it's big break as one of the taxpayer's biggest leaches, by an interlocking directorate between highest finance, corporate lords and easily blackmailed and bribed pro$titicians.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 22 2022 16:31 utc | 121

@117 zidar

They won’t be held in jail. More like house arrest with movement restrictions outside, but likely to be on a secluded compound. Turkey will be responsible for their safety, so security will be tight. As much from attacks from the outside than anything else.

Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 22 2022 16:31 utc | 122

I just added this comment to my VK Wall underneath my posting of Putin's speech:

"It seems clear from commentary and reader stats that too few have read the entire speech for there is an extremely powerful statement of purpose made by Putin in his closing paragraph:

It is in our historical tradition, in the fate of our people, to stop those who are striving for world domination, who threaten to dismember and enslave our Motherland, our Fatherland. We will do it now, and so it will be. [My Emphasis]

"I invite people to read those words several times for the are fateful in their importance. Putin is a man of purpose who does what he says and doesn't lie or bluff; so, his words cannot be ignored. Rather, they must be absorbed, discussed and passed along to those who failed to read or hear them. There are 533 people who are friends. Their duty is to inform all their friends, and so forth on to others so many thousands then millions know just what the hell Putin has said and put forth as Russia's Existential Challenge."

For Leroy @104 and the many who share his sentiments--

There you are my man. I would classify Putin's words above as a solemn vow based on all previous context, meaning the entirety of Russian history, not just what's occurred since 1990. To remind and to inform those who have yet to read what Puitn said, here's some of that context taken from his speech:

"The goal of this West is to weaken, divide and ultimately destroy our country. They are already directly saying that in 1991 they were able to split the Soviet Union, and now the time has come for Russia itself, that it must disintegrate into many deadly warring regions and regions.

"And they have been hatching such plans for a long time. They encouraged gangs of international terrorists in the Caucasus, promoted NATO's offensive infrastructure close to our borders. They have made total Russophobia their weapons, including for decades purposefully cultivating hatred of Russia, primarily in Ukraine, to which they were preparing the fate of an anti-Russian bridgehead, and turned the Ukrainian people themselves into cannon fodder and pushed them to war with our country, unleashing it, this war, back in 2014, using armed forces against the civilian population, organizing genocide. blockade, terror against people who refused to recognize the power that arose in Ukraine as a result of a coup d'état."

Woe be it to those who scrolled past this comment for you've missed information of paramount importance.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2022 16:33 utc | 123

IMHO McGregor hits more critical points and realizations than any of the other analysts I've viewed or read.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 22 2022 16:05 utc | 107

Indeed, he's the only person I've seen in the public sphere in the US who I feel is both qualified, wise and brave enough to actually do something helpful were he ever to be in the White House. Which of course will not happen. Reform via elections has long been a dead horse in this dead-man-walking post-JFK Republic. If nothing else Trump's Presidency proved that in spades, but there are still true believers out there who think that 'this time we'll finally get our country back.'

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2022 16:34 utc | 124

I believe they may be an urgent need for members of this community to help with the mobilization effort.

https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1572924327405707264

Is anyone available to travel to Dagestan and Buryatia and explain to these people that they should in fact be happy to go to war in Ukraine? You can let them know that they will not be fighting against Nazis alone: by their side will be the Nazis of Rusich battalion and countless other "neo" fighters in Wagner, Spartak, etc. You can tell them about the bioweapon labs, the Canadian NATO generals, the secret nuke program. Let them know about the Clobber List and the fact that Ukraine was hours away from invading Russia when the "SMO" started.

If they laugh at you - it's just a cultural thing. The message will definitely be sinking in.

Posted by: Yenwoda | Sep 22 2022 16:35 utc | 125

TomUK - It is very easy to see that you and the other MI6/CIA/SBU trolls (one with Chinese name) are trying so hard to muddy the discussions. You really think independent thinkers, like most on here, are going to be swayed by your LIES?
It just makes it so obvious which posters are from the deep states of certain nations, you know, the ones losing their billions gained from crime, grift and laundering money in Ukie land? This is why you and others of your "ilk" are so easy to spot.

Posted by: Arcticman | Sep 22 2022 16:38 utc | 126

Michigan Dude @ 115

Hold the fort, man. The Petrodollar is in deepest doo-doo, as the Saudis (its primary support) is now making nice with Russia as well as well as the OPEC nations. Only in comparison with the Euro, does the dollar still stand shakily strong. The Bank$ters, on behalf of their de-population agenda may pull the rug out from underneath the stock market as they did in October of '29. Will that be reprised in October of 22?

What this all connotes is that the U$$A itself may be on the brink of a major economic collapse...as per plan. Perhaps the Bank$ters will over-reach themselves as even comfortably numb, smug sub-urbanites may begin to go off the rails at the same time as massive riots occur in the largest cities.

So hang tough, Dude, the fat lady has yet to screech out her Aria.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 22 2022 16:41 utc | 127

aristodemos @121--

Major wars are the primary source of corporate welfare in the U$$A.

The bolded word makes your sentence false. Wars are one of the sources of corporate welfare ... The far larger source is Fed policy and largess where many $$Trillions have gone to corporations since 2008 far outdistancing what was doled out to the MIC over those years.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2022 16:42 utc | 128

The guy was head of Special Operations. Could he run a special operation? Featuring himself? The operation was directed at you and me. Our best response is to walk away.

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 22 2022 16:27 utc | 118

Ha ha ha! Right on...

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2022 16:43 utc | 129

@ Tom UK | 83

When you say schools are being closed, men are being drafted, and there is panic in Russia over the mobilization, I know everything in Russia is going smoothly.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Sep 22 2022 16:49 utc | 130

Scorpion @120

Close but no cigar. Not the "water filtration systems" dumbing-down the Great Overwashed, but that nasty shit called Stannous Fluoride, a byproduct of aluminum production by Alcoa, as owned/controlled by the Mellon crime clan of Pittsburgh. They corrupted key movers and shakers in the American Dental Association back in the 30's, claiming that it would be the perfect vademecum for children's teeth. So why is it in virtually all municipal drinking water and not just in sugary drinks and breakfast cereals for the kiddies?

Don't take my word for the fluoride issue. Google may not be much help in researching it and WickedPedia would be definitely worse than bad. Go to some independent search-engine or three and then make up your own mind. In the meantime, try to stick to bottled spring water (without additions) or from well water in regions where no fracking is going on OR in heavy agribiz regions like almost all of Iowa, where well-water is no longer so well due to the phantasmagorical levels of chemical warfare down on the farm.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 22 2022 16:50 utc | 131


I suggest not feeding the trolls could be even more entertaining
than bantering back and forth. If they get no response what might they do? Double down and get even more outrageous!

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Sep 22 2022 16:50 utc | 132

@xeen | Sep 22 2022 13:09 utc | 42

In Germany the radical Greens, who basically run the government, will just double down. And most Germans will follow without blinking. Just like they did during the Corona scam.
As I noted at the time, the whole thing was an obedience training event, and now they are obedient.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 22 2022 16:50 utc | 133

LOL -

"Blinken says Moscow 'bussed in Russians' to vote in sham referenda." FOX News

Posted by: gottlieb | Sep 22 2022 16:53 utc | 134

re: wayward bloggers
from Stripes, Sep 19, 2022 . . .
Pentagon opens sweeping review of clandestine psychological operations

The Pentagon has ordered a sweeping audit of how it conducts clandestine information warfare after major social media companies identified and took offline fake accounts suspected of being run by the U.S. military in violation of the platforms' rules.
Colin Kahl, the undersecretary of defense for policy, last week instructed the military commands that engage in psychological operations online to provide a full accounting of their activities by next month after the White House and some federal agencies expressed mounting concerns over the Defense Department's attempted manipulation of audiences overseas [and locally], according to several defense and administration officials familiar with the matter. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 22 2022 16:53 utc | 135

Karlof1@128

You maybe have overlooked the fact that the corporate benefits include the very banks which profit heavily on the WarDefense Industry and also on Big Oil, a huge player in all known wars. Thus, it still boils down to corporate profitability, which is predicated on the underpinnings of wars of aggression.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 22 2022 16:55 utc | 136

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2022 16:33 utc | 123

I pity the nation whose leader doesn't bluff :|

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Sep 22 2022 16:55 utc | 137

aristodemos @ 121

Dupont was selling black powder to US military in 1776. They have been at it a while.

General Motors was only a place for the family to park some money. They never much cared about it as it was mostly a peacetime enterprise and the real money would come with the next war. Explains why GM was so casually and badly managed for so many decades. They did unload most stock before it went belly up.

Duponts are also known for being mentally ill and perverted. I am and have been involved in bike racing. When Pierre DuPont decided to become a major sponsor and player in US racing everyone was happy with deep pockets opened up in our general direction. And he was so evidently loony everyone figured he'd be led around by nose. As I remember it lasted two or three years. Pierre was having all the young juniors male and female out to the estate and diddling them. Basically admitted as much in court. Made no difference. He was a DuPont and droit du seigneur still applies. And diminished responsibility anyway because he is just nuts.

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 22 2022 16:57 utc | 138

Norskie @ 128

Ja du. The Tyskers have long been schooled in obedience. The process went into overdrive during the 30 Years War between 1618 and '48. Over those three decades, the Deutschers lost fully half their population. Ever since the Peace of Westphalia, those semi-Nordics have been world champions at obedience...with the probable exception of the Japanese.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 22 2022 16:59 utc | 139

Norwegian...oops again, it's @133

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 22 2022 17:00 utc | 140


Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 22 2022 16:31 utc | 122

"As much from attacks from the outside than anything else."

Will they be protected from alien abductions?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 22 2022 17:02 utc | 141

Don't take my word for the fluoride issue.
Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 22 2022 16:50 utc | 131

Oh, have been aware of that for a very long time. I live in a municipality which uses spring water (though the pipes I don't trust so don't drink) and am moving to a new place soon where we will repair the old well but whose village water comes straight out of the mountainside less than a mile away (but I also don't trust the pipes.) For an old-fashioned way of 'revitalizing' water, I recommend the Viktor Schauberger invented non-mechanical copper gizmos at alivewater dot com. Using internal flukes they cause the water to flow into a double-vortex configuration which restructures the water and also pushes particles, including bacteria, to the outside where they get oxygenated and perish, but it's the restructuring, or 'revitalizing' that really does the trick. The vortex action duplicates the natural cleansing journey of water in forests and streams. The inventor was a great genius but little-known because he lived in Germany and died shortly after the war once all his patents had been taken by the Americans.

On a low income island I lived in for almost twenty years, I ran a small organic bakery using dug well-water from the property which went through their copper gizmo into the house. Many said it was the best bread they had ever had in their lives including people from Montreal and Europe. 10% due to my skill (emphasizing time over technique); 30% due to the best grains money could buy, many fresh-ground on site; 30% due to the natural fermentation; and 30% due to the water, something often overlooked by chefs and doctors alike.

In any case, I highly recommend the whole house gizmo. Simple. Works. No moving parts.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2022 17:07 utc | 142

SwissArmyMan @ 132 is correct: "I suggest not feeding the trolls" Please remember that responses to their posts probably result in bonuses in their year-end pay. Let them starve along with Europe and they will have tp clip coupons to eat.

Posted by: Quid Me Vexare | Sep 22 2022 17:11 utc | 143

Kareem, in your post you seem so, so, well what is the word? CONCERNED! And you are concerned from a "leftist" perspective as best as I can tell; but who knows? Many concerned people on this site seem to talk in circles rather than just getting to straight to the point.

Well you seem so, well unconcerned, or in a typical western binary "war of narratives", only concerned by buas confirmation. Many people on those western sites seem to listen in tiny circle of their own narrative. Maybe just watching unicorns in ones bedroom would be more productive?

But yes i am.concerned, being born and raised with war, from generations born in endless imperialist wars, aimed at providing energy calories to ppl like you.
And because I have friends amazing folks in the great land of Russia, whose present and future is at stake, seems like they are very concerned trolls too, positively mobilized, but angry at vsrious level of their leadership. But please keep on with your tourist behavior, in the dead west.
First and last time I'll answer to those pavlovian reactions. Too much work to do. Good long night to you!

Posted by: Kareem | Sep 22 2022 17:18 utc | 144

"... the Russian President is not an autocrat and certainly not a dictator, as he must answer to the Duma, which fairly well represents the hopes and wishes of the vast majority of the Russian people."
aristodemos@113

The ironic thing about the current western campaign against "authoritarian' Russia, is that the 'Strong Presidency' which exists in Moscow was imposed by the US in order to bypass the elected Duma and centralise all power in the hands of their puppet Yeltsin.

They even shelled the Duma and killed large numbers of people, including political opposition leaders, while imposing their system. I believe that one Joseph Biden was an influential member if not Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee at the time.

I might be mistaken, there will have been constitutional amendments since 1994, but I believe that the "values" that Putin is exemplifying in his style of government were imposed by NATO and were specifically designed to ensure that the Russian people-electing communists and other radicals to the Duma- should not be allowed to interfere with the Washington/IMF neo-liberal modernisation programme that killed more Russians than Napoleon had.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 22 2022 17:22 utc | 145

"..I highly recommend the whole house gizmo. Simple. Works. No moving parts."
Scorpion@142
Wrong thread? Still links? Names?

Posted by: bevin | Sep 22 2022 17:26 utc | 146

Antonio Guterres is hopeful that Russia and Ukraine will carry out an all-for-all prisoner exchange.

This little nazi is missing his buddies

Posted by: rk | Sep 22 2022 17:26 utc | 147

Lavrov live at the UN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heGqF8FcWbI

Posted by: Paco | Sep 22 2022 17:29 utc | 148

prisoner swap makes me feel angry at the moment. I really wanted to see Dennis and his bunker buddy sentenced. My feelings are usually on the the same page a the general russian public. so an angy russian public is not a good thing, right? or am i missing some bigger point here.?

Posted by: Anya | Sep 22 2022 17:36 utc | 149

Global Times slams Biden's UNGA rant in major article, not editorial, "US hijacks UNGA to stage anti-Russia slamming campaign, urged to walk the talk when Biden claims 'not seeking cold war'":

Following Russia's partial mobilization of the nation's military reserves, the US-led West ramped up efforts to launch a collective campaign of denouncing Moscow on the global stage, particularly when Western leaders such as US President Joe Biden have tried to turn the ongoing 77th session of the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) into an anti-Russia platform. They have fully underscored their hostility toward the Kremlin, which only aggravates the confrontation and goes against the common aspiration of countries for security and development.

With their ill-intentioned attempts, Biden, along with his major allies such as the UK and Japan, tried to associate the Taiwan question with the Ukraine crisis despite their completely different nature, which is seen as a reflection of Washington's Cold War mentality that defines both Russia and China as its strategic rivals, some experts said. And addressing the Taiwan question - China's internal affair - in a UNGA speech is a reckless and dangerous move, showing the duplicity of the US' China policy, in which the White House failed to fulfill its promises.

While some Western countries echoed the US call for UN reforms by expanding the membership of permanent and non-permanent members of the UN Security Council (UNSC) and restricting the use of the veto, Chinese observers said if the UN becomes a "battlefield" for geopolitical wrestling, the organization itself will lose its value for existence.

Turning the UN into such an arena is one of the Outlaw US Empire's goals as those American Fascists who took over after FDR's demise have never really had any use for the UN since they've violated it since its inception.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2022 17:40 utc | 150

aristodemos @136--

So, Dr. Hudson and many others don't know what the fuck they're writing about and the figures they obtain are all wrong. Sure.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2022 17:43 utc | 151

Wrong thread? Still links? Names?

Posted by: bevin | Sep 22 2022 17:26 utc | 146

I cracked a joke about maybe collective Waste stupidity being due to something in the drinking water. Someone replied seriously about fluoride. I replied seriously about a very good water treatment gizmo. Have no commercial affiliation with it, just a little-known 1930's technology which somebody in Canada revived.

My bad.

But it arose out of on-topic conversation. Such things float up from time to time every day.

Or is this a college lecture hall, not a 'bar?'

(I think the bad stuff is endless arguing about unresolvable biases, or calling out 'trolls' or direct ad hominems. A few asides here and there seem fine unless they drag on too long. My 2 cents.)

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2022 17:43 utc | 152

".... I believe that the "values" that Putin is exemplifying in his style of government were imposed by NATO and were specifically designed to ensure that the Russian people-electing communists and other radicals to the Duma- should not be allowed to interfere with the Washington/IMF neo-liberal modernization programme that killed more Russians than Napoleon had.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 22 2022 17:22 utc | 145

Mr. bevin, of course you are correct in your comment, but I think that the Duma still has the power to correct, or even remove, the Russian president if a large enough majority of the Duma chose to do so. Removing a president in almost any parliament should not be impossible but it should also not be easy. A Democratic House impeached President Trump twice but failed to remove him from office. Also, a Republican Party House impeached President Clinton, but also failed to remove him as well.
So why should anything be different in Russia.

Posted by: Guernica | Sep 22 2022 17:47 utc | 153

karlof1 @123:

Things are very serious. This is WWIII. Russia (and China and many other nations striving for sovereignty) will be destroyed if they don’t fight, and the Empire of Delusions has descended into mass insanity and can only escalate to the very end or sacrifice their cherished delusions. Things are grim indeed, and I can no longer see an off ramp before this highway enters the gates of hell. I held out hope for revolution in the imperial heartlands, and there were faint stirrings several years ago, but that hope is gone now.

Neither side will yield before using their last weapons. Russia because yielding means the end of Russia, with their nation being shredded like Yugoslavia, their culture replaced with plastic McCrap, and their history and even languages erased. America also cannot yield because they are on a delusional crusade to prove their exceptionality (scan trollwoda’s posts for a whiff of that stench). As well, capitalism has reached its limits and economic cannibalism is all that remains to buoy markets. Europe is currently being devoured, and perversely seems to be enjoying it, but the Global South is showing signs of being tired of being gnawed on, and there ain’t much meat there anyway, so the ravenous beast has its eyes on Russia and China.

And the Empire really is a beast. It cannot be reasoned with. The West is “agreement incapable”. Note that it isn’t “agreement averse” or that it just prefers to break its agreements, but it is literally incapable. The West cannot honor any agreements, no matter how much in good faith they were made, because the entire West is suffering mass psychosis and its collective perception of reality is constantly in flux. The West is totally FUBAR, as Sushi suggested above.

Sorry, Scorpion, but your suggestion that the ongoing collapse of the West is intentional is just the warmed over argument of this forum’s former resident bunny who tried to argue that the 2016 election fiasco (for the Establishment) was going entirely according to Deep State plans. The capitalist elites are scrambling to hold their empire together, but they are also building luxury bunkers because they know they are failing.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 22 2022 17:49 utc | 154

What's the Russian "Storm" unit active in Ukraine? Any details?

Posted by: BarstowAnd7yearsago | Sep 22 2022 17:50 utc | 155

Has anyone learned what technology(-ies) will be used to record and count the votes in the upcoming referenda on whether to reunify with Russia?

Posted by: David Levin | Sep 22 2022 17:56 utc | 156

This is a very good article on what will happen to the German economy in the next years, although they did miss "step 6 people protest in the streets and the state responds with brutal repression as they did with the yellow vests", step 7 is regime change.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/business/energy-crisis-fallout-how-bad-will-the-german-recession-be-a-9e1f479e-5fef-4e62-b5ca-2f9e87b9bbca

Step 6 and 7 covered well by Garland Nixon with the Duran

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP5IHoegHMo

Posted by: Roger | Sep 22 2022 18:01 utc | 157

rex 7
It seems that USA shall try the expulsion of Russia from UN and Security council, based of majority vote in the UN assembly.

After the no vote fails Russia should do the same thing to the US. The votes could be there to kick the US off. It would be the biggest shakedown in world history. It would cost the US a trillion dollars to buy the votes they need. It would be hilarious to hear the US howl like a stuck pig.

Posted by: circumspect | Sep 22 2022 18:03 utc | 158

Sorry, Scorpion, but your suggestion that the ongoing collapse of the West is intentional is just the warmed over argument of this forum’s former resident bunny who tried to argue that the 2016 election fiasco (for the Establishment) was going entirely according to Deep State plans. The capitalist elites are scrambling to hold their empire together, but they are also building luxury bunkers because they know they are failing.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 22 2022 17:49 utc | 154

Well, let's hope you are right, though I'm not sure what's worse: they are engineering collapse deliberately or bringing it on through ineptitude! Also, the bunker building could be regarded as evidence they are bringing it on just as much as because they are failing, so that's a poor argument.

I know nothing of the previous bunny or the 2016 election business. Am just observing what seems to be happening day by day. I find it unacceptable to presume that ALL western nations are suddenly and in lockstep stricken with top to bottom stupidity. You can believe so if you like, but I simply cannot go that far. With respect, it seems like a refusal to accept a reality that is staring us in the face and our collective refusal is what is enabling it to proceed month by month.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2022 18:04 utc | 159

@149 You sure are missing the whole point. No AZOV villain or safari-going mercenary is worth a drop of blood of a Russian soldier. Go tell the families of the Russian POW's that you will sacrifice their children for your sacrosanct sense of justice and try to look in the mirror after that. The whole value system of trolls and high-minded keyboard heroes approaches that of a chimpansee war.

Posted by: Anthony | Sep 22 2022 18:06 utc | 160

Just for the enjoyment of other barflies:

On CNBC this morning, Jim Cramer - noted shill and conman - was waxing poetic about the financial fortunes of Lockheed Martin. He was shocked that US weapons stocks were low after sending most of it to Ukraine; nothing was more important, he said, than rebuilding those stocks.

He also said LM should be the 'most valuable stock in the world' as 'everybody wants what they make'. Excuse me? I'd wager 6.99 billion people on the planet would rather than no one had any of LM's products.

Posted by: FrankDrakman | Sep 22 2022 18:08 utc | 161

"I fail to understand how sending billions to 404 is a positive platform heading into the mid-terms."

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 22 2022 15:56 utc | 103

In many Western countries (~34?) elections are totally rigged, hence the blatant disregard for the will of the ppl, or even their well-being

In the eyes of the "leaders" they're untouchable and we're all "useless eaters"

Posted by: xLemming | Sep 22 2022 18:09 utc | 162

Kadyrov is not happy about exchange of prisoners and he is of course right, what was the fight all about if Russia/DPR in the end would let those nazis free?? Makes no sense at all. Expect fewer cheches going to ukraine to fight.

"Extremely unhappy with yesterday's exchange" - Kadyrov criticized the decision of the Russian Ministry of Defence and the FSB

The head of Chechnya said that the decision to exchange war criminals for servicemen was unacceptable. Kadyrov also said that the people who insulted the honor of the Chechen people "have paid a heavy price for their words. But Ramzan Akhmatovich said this was only his personal opinion.

"I would have understood if there had been an equivalent exchange <...> we carried out the exchange on Ukrainian terms. This is not right. Our fighters crushed fascists in Mariupol, drove them into Azovstal, smoked them out of basements, died, were wounded, and contused. Handing over even this one Azov terrorist should have been unacceptable," Kadyrov wrote.


https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/10290

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 22 2022 18:10 utc | 163

@scorpion

Maybe it isnt even important if we deal with stupidity or coordinated breakdown.

Maybe the only thing that matters is, that we react as if it was coordinated breakdown.

In the end we can be wrong about it, that we must act as if it was bad intend.

Posted by: Orgel | Sep 22 2022 18:14 utc | 164

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 22 2022 13:27 utc | 52

Not true. By agreement, they shall stay outside Ukraine till the end of the conflict.

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Sep 22 2022 13:36 utc | 54

"By agreement..." agreement by who? And, since when has Ukraine, the US, and NATO ever kept their word about anything. Don't get me wrong Kitay, you are just the messenger in this case, but do you find the prisoner swap thing a bit, well, naïve? I know I do.

Posted by: Guernica | Sep 22 2022 18:14 utc | 165

I took out a trial Telegraph subscription last week to follow the funeral and also get a read on mainstream UK press viz Ukraine for a little while since I always read non-MSM stuff. Interesting. Here is their report on the mobilization including the classified point 7:
(archive link to avoid paywall)
https://archive.ph/IX7pX

[excerpt]

"Vladimir Putin has secretly approved a law that will send a further one million men to fight in Ukraine, a Russian newspaper reported on Thursday.
If true, the target is more than three times higher than the 300,000 number that had previously been circulated and is likely to exacerbate fears of conscription among ordinary Russians that have seen mass protests and people massing at borders to leave the country.
Novaya Gazeta, an independent Russian newspaper-in-exile, on Thursday quoted an unnamed Kremlin source saying that the target number of one million men is written in Point 7 of Mr Putin’s mobilisation order - a part that was redacted from publication.
The unnamed Kremlin officials said the number had been revised several times and that the Russian military insisted on it being classified.
When asked about the redacted figure, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov confirmed that it contains the mobilisation target but cited Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu statement on Wednesday that Moscow was only going to call up 300,000 people."

(This post is not to argue that Telegraph is correct or incorrect, just give a glimpse of a story out there which has not come up in our comments.)

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2022 18:17 utc | 166

@aristodemos | Sep 22 2022 16:59 utc | 139

Ja du. The Tyskers have long been schooled in obedience. The process went into overdrive during the 30 Years War between 1618 and '48. Over those three decades, the Deutschers lost fully half their population. Ever since the Peace of Westphalia, those semi-Nordics have been world champions at obedience...with the probable exception of the Japanese.

"Take history away from the people - and in a generation they will turn into a crowd, and in another generation they can be controlled like a herd."

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 22 2022 18:17 utc | 167

Guys, use your heads. Russia has not exchanged POWs at a favorable ratio before and has not exchanged Azov unit leaders at all. Medvedchuk has been in custody since the second month of the war and obviously isn't worth much.

The most likely explanation is that Ukraine captured one or more very "high value" POWs in their Kharkiv offensive that were part of the exchange.

A less likely explanation (but it could be combination of these) is that the exchange is a small olive branch. In other words, mobilization signals that Russia isn't going to fold after recent reversals. The exchange signals that Russia is willing to negotiate in good faith (say, pick back up from March negotiations minus the non-starter of "demilitarization").

Posted by: Yenwoda | Sep 22 2022 18:17 utc | 168

@30 and others

Sorry folks, Monsanto as a corporation doesn't exist anymore (since 2016). Bayer bought it so your new chemical/big pharma/ag seed company whipping boy should be Bayer. It don't think Bayer is much worse than the other of the big money chemical/big pharma/ag seed company cartel, but they are the one that bought Monsanto and retired the name. Most U.S. ag seed brands are now owned by the Big Chem cartel.

Posted by: DakotaRog | Sep 22 2022 18:20 utc | 169

Reports coming out from some of the ethnic republics that male university students are being taken straight out of classes. Some schools have closed and turned into enlistment offices. Men are being rounded up and conscripted from small villages.

I suspect in the poorer regions it will be full mobilisation rather than partial, however we will wait and see how it pans out. There is a lot of panic and confusion right now.

This troll never stops. He makes my arse tired.

Posted by: Guernica | Sep 22 2022 18:22 utc | 170

Posted by: xeen | Sep 22 2022 12:13 utc | 25

I believe that assessment is spot on.

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 22 2022 18:23 utc | 171

Kadyrov is not happy about exchange of prisoners and he is of course right, what was the fight all about if Russia/DPR in the end would let those nazis free?? Makes no sense at all. Expect fewer cheches going to ukraine to fight.
"Extremely unhappy with yesterday's exchange" - Kadyrov criticized the decision of the Russian Ministry of Defence and the FSB
The head of Chechnya said that the decision to exchange war criminals for servicemen was unacceptable. Kadyrov also said that the people who insulted the honor of the Chechen people "have paid a heavy price for their words. But Ramzan Akhmatovich said this was only his personal opinion.

"I would have understood if there had been an equivalent exchange <...> we carried out the exchange on Ukrainian terms. This is not right. Our fighters crushed fascists in Mariupol, drove them into Azovstal, smoked them out of basements, died, were wounded, and contused. Handing over even this one Azov terrorist should have been unacceptable," Kadyrov wrote.

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 22 2022 18:10 utc | 163

I assume he'll be even less happy if Russia agrees peace terms with the West. Barring unconditional surrender of the rump Ukraine - which doesn't look likely even with 300,000 more Russians joining the fight - the only other way to end a war involves confidence building measures and compromises on both sides.

Posted by: ZX | Sep 22 2022 18:23 utc | 172

Excellent recap by Sputnik of Lavrov's events in New York at UNGA unrelated to his speech. Lavrov well expresses Russia's problems with the institutions charged with law, investigation and enforcement. After years of neglecting its thousands of protestations, is it any wonder that Russia no longer has any faith in those institutions, and even views them as adversarial? Recall Putin's admonition that all the West is aimed at Russia's demise, and that would include Western institutions.

Total War? Not quite yet. However, it's very clear that much will change once this historical episode's over.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2022 18:23 utc | 173

It seems to me that elite incompetence and an intended managed decline of the West are not incompatible, or inconsistent with each other, both may well be true. That is, they do intend managed decline, but they will make a botch of it.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 22 2022 18:25 utc | 174

Douglas McGregor is speaking the truth.

So is Scott Ritter.

https://t.me/ScottRitter

The deep state is global and controls NATO, or so it seems.

The deep state seems to be in control of the corrupt US currently and most of democratic party and a large percentage of republicans ... esp. the RINOs and non MAGA.

Trump and US MAGA contingent is on the same side as Russia, against the globalist IMHO ... which is why the MSM is trying to destroy them.

Posted by: Zigray | Sep 22 2022 18:27 utc | 175

It is clear that the greatest mistake Putin and the Russian general staff have made in the conduct of this military operation is not conferring with the "Moon of Alabama"commentariat first before making their moves. So much wasted genius.

Posted by: Gareth | Sep 22 2022 18:28 utc | 176

“[@] William Gruff | Sep 22 2022 17:49 utc | 154 - Well, let's hope you are right. . .” - Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2022 18:04 utc | 159
As I read it, William’s analysis probably leads to nuclear war: ‘Things are grim indeed, and I can no longer see an off ramp before this highway enters the gates of hell. . .Neither side will yield before using their last weapons. . .’.

I hope William is wrong, but I fear he is right.

Posted by: DocHollywood | Sep 22 2022 18:29 utc | 177

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 22 2022 11:44 utc | 13

...
If Biden acts in a way that triggers an escalated response from RF the American public will ask "Why did you provoke someone you described as a madman?" "Are you totally irresponsible and incapable of understanding your own pronouncements?"...

Do you believe such a reaction would be in character with previous reactions to American bellicism? I think you are over estimating the public's inclination for sensible, independent reasoning and underestimating the marketers who have no trouble selling the concept of humanitarian warfare. Examples of convoluted logic:

- Oh! The evil, wicked (and evil) madman terrorizes his people. Something should be done about it!
Reaction -> Let's bomb the place to a smouldering heap of rubble, already.

- The evil, wicked madman is starving his people
-> Thoroughly destroy the nation and make the economy scream

- The poor children are dying
-> embargo on food and medicine (...and so on)

And as for European public, sure there will be a whole bunch of really angry folks, but I expect that anger to be directed toward other conduits. Don't expect mass demonstrations calling for better relations with Russia.

Posted by: robin | Sep 22 2022 18:29 utc | 178

@168 Yenwoda

I would lean to a combination of explanations. Putin had to respond to nationalist calls on mobilisation after the Kharkiv offensive. China and India are also pressuring Russia to end this conflict and end it quickly. Mobilisation and the referendums to declare occupied territory as Russian demonstrate to internal and external critics that Russia is being strong and looking to decisively resolve the conflict.

The POW exchange is the other side of the approach, an open gesture to Ukraine that shows negotiations to end this are possible, but to achieve what it wants, Russia has to negotiate from a position of strength, not from weakness - again a rationale for the mobilisation and referendums.

Just my take.

Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 22 2022 18:31 utc | 179

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 22 2022 16:27 utc | 118

Thanks for the follow-up, I didn’t mean to suggest that Olson didn’t exists, only that the photo ID wasn’t strong enough to support the idea of his capture. However, I take the official denials for Cloutier and Cadieu at the same face value ... or lower.

I take your point that we’re not in a position to know the truth of this stuff. All three of those guys are so senior that, even if they were dragged out of Azovstal, the chances of them being perp walked was close to zero. We got to see a couple of low rank fruitcakes make fools of themselves, senior ranks (if any) would almost always be worth some kind of deal. As it’s turned out, even the Nazi oiks are going home in one piece.

I will say this about a Cloutier and Cadieu: a 10 seconds webcam, of either of those Empire Bogans, smirking and joking away the rumours of them being in Azovstal, would have done the trick a hundred times over, and given the MSM a great opportunity to gloat at interwebs conspiracy loons. Instead, they all carried on like they didn’t want anyone to know that they’d just s**t themselves.

If you don’t mind, I’ll hold on to my suspicions, and scrutinise any reports the feature Cloutier or Cadieu, for as long as I’m able to remember their names =)

Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 22 2022 18:32 utc | 180

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2022 16:29 utc | 120

In case you haven't seen the video below:


https://twitter.com/russ_warrior/status/1572858161748660224

Posted by: WJ | Sep 22 2022 18:35 utc | 181

Posted by: ZX | Sep 22 2022 18:23 utc | 172

Ha! I bet Kadyrov creates TEN more tik tok accounts! And instagram! Total domination!

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Sep 22 2022 18:37 utc | 182

William Gruff @154--

Thanks for your reply, grimness and all. I sit here pulling my beard trying to come up with a rational reply but seem to be museless at the moment as my attempts to inform and warn go unheeded and the usual yammering continues. Sigh..... Guess I'll take my lunch break and resume writing my essay afterwards. It seems everyone wants to feed the trolls, which of course motivates them to further fuck what little discourse is present.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2022 18:40 utc | 183

the only other way to end a war involves confidence building measures and compromises on both sides.
Posted by: ZX | Sep 22 2022 18:23 utc | 172

Like the multiple deaths in Donetsk today, after the prisoner exchange? Or the ones a few days ago? Nice compromise signed by retards in charge.

Posted by: rk | Sep 22 2022 18:40 utc | 184

Suddenly we learn that, for Putin, one ukronazi is worth 4 Russian soldiers.
Disgusting how there are idiots here without the slightest bit of shame on their face who still defend and support this rascality...

Posted by: Grey Sparrow | Sep 22 2022 18:41 utc | 185

Hey look, tomuk speaks to shitoda again. Same ip?

Posted by: rk | Sep 22 2022 18:42 utc | 186

Sorry, was responding to Zanon | Sep 22 2022 18:10 utc | 163
Apologies to ZX!

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Sep 22 2022 18:42 utc | 187

Dunno if anyone’s mentioned this possibility but I saw the claim that the office of RF president (I.e. Putin) had requested this exchange, so I was wondering if the return of Medvedchuk was the main thing?
Quite a few RF oligarchs have conveniently died since the start of SMO, presumably for scheming behind Putin’s back, other oligarchs might be worried on general principle. Now Putin is seen to make a personally damaging prisoner swap just to rescue a loyal / friendly oligarch ... a rather significant object lesson for RF oligarchy.
Also, the way things might be going, maybe there won’t be another opportunity to make this type of swap on any terms, I.e. if things get out of hand.

Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 22 2022 14:57 utc | 84

You might be on to something there anon, but probably not what you intended. This could be the last prisoner swap before Russia kicks the UAF's arse and sends NATO running for its life. Well, it is an alternative to your anti Putin (therefore Russia phobic) comments.

Posted by: Guernica | Sep 22 2022 18:46 utc | 188

Hey look, rk speaks to himself again. Same padded room?

Posted by: Yenwoda | Sep 22 2022 18:49 utc | 189

TASS has an article that supplements Sputnik's I linked above, "Lavrov describes events happening in Ukraine since 2014 as 'impunity'" and informs us that his remarks were made at today's UNSC session.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2022 18:50 utc | 190

Posted by: Yenwoda | Sep 22 2022 16:35 utc | 125

I believe they may be an urgent need for members of this community to help with the mobilization effort.

https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1572924327405707264

Is anyone available to travel to Dagestan and Buryatia and explain to these people that they should in fact be happy to go to war in Ukraine? You can let them know that they will not be fighting against Nazis alone: by their side will be the Nazis of Rusich battalion and countless other "neo" fighters in Wagner, Spartak, etc. You can tell them about the bioweapon labs, the Canadian NATO generals, the secret nuke program. Let them know about the Clobber List and the fact that Ukraine was hours away from invading Russia when the "SMO" started.

If they laugh at you - it's just a cultural thing. The message will definitely be sinking in.


I laugh at you Yenwoda. You don't even know what they are saying so that tweet comes very handly to you, don't you?, maybe it's true, perhaps it's a half truth, I can't tell. But then, you find that Tadeusz Giczan, a belarusian by birth, is a London based working for NEXTA and that all his academic formation comes from Poland, it's clear the path he has choose long ago and the reason behind the tweet.

Yenwoda, I have read some of your posts here in Moon of Alabama and I can conclude you underestimate the Russia Federation, the commitment with their people and with it's own existence. You're arrogant to say at least.

Hubris come gratuitous to those that have nothing or that are about to lose everything.

Posted by: Azaghal | Sep 22 2022 18:51 utc | 191

@ Tom UK | 119

Either post links to support your garbage assertions or kindly bugger off. Adults are conversing here.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Sep 22 2022 18:57 utc | 192

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2022 18:50 utc | 190

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CdY7t5VKIY
Lavrov around -3.21 (but that will change, so about 10 hours after the start). He follows US, China, India, Ireland, Gabon.

The Council, IMO, is a big fat waste of time, like the entire UN operation at this point. It is disgusting that only the Russian representative is able and willing to mention how the Ukraine conflict began explicitly after the 2014 coup, everyone else either avoids that issue (India for example) or pretends we are dealing with an unprovoked attack by one sovereign state against another (US, Ireland, Gabon). Useless gabfest.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2022 18:58 utc | 193

Did Lavrov really called *elensky a son of a b*tch? I mean murricas son ofc :D

Posted by: Macpott | Sep 22 2022 19:00 utc | 194

Scorpion | 120
"Or: maybe we just have bad water filtration systems and nobody has noticed?"

There is a precedent:
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/lead-pipes-rome-ostia-soil-samples#:~:text=The%20researchers%20were%20able%20to,and%20stopped%20around%20250%20AD.


Posted by: Figleaf23 | Sep 22 2022 19:02 utc | 195

The biggest point of "western" propaganda (as for example by "TomUK" and "yenoda") is to completely ignore that the war was started by ukrainian aggression, massacres and invasion against the Donbas (english spelling) people, and pretend that the war was instead started by the Russian Federation against Ukraine, and that most of the activity this year was merely a small counter-attack by the armed forces of the Donbas republics with some support by a small RF military force.

Unfortunately the Kremlin propaganda often looks like ignoring the same point, and making valid but far less decisive arguments about RF security needs, because the Kremlin is ashamed that it took 8 years for the Russian Federation to be able to provide the support for a counter-attack by the Donbas Republics.

But the biggest shame goes to the several "western" government that have made a crime to support the right to self determination and the right to self defence of the brutalized and massacred people of the Donbas, both of which are the core values of the U.N. treaty that they setup as founding members.

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 22 2022 19:04 utc | 196

The one advantage of this site being a destination for CIA trolls is that it gives us clear evidence of what the new NATO talking points are.

Tom UK and Yenwoda are both wringing their hands over the sad fate of young men in the Russian Federation from non Great Russian ethnic groups: who are, as we speak, being chained together into eight man gang/squads and marched to the front lines in Donbas where they will be handcuffed to machine guns, buried up to their necks in trenches and- under the eagle eyes of replicas of NKVD Political Commissars observing their every move- forced to shoot at their Ukrainian brothers.

It could be worse than that. I gather that Moscow's next move is to contract for a million Uighurs from the Concentration camps plus Tibetans to take part in Phase 4 of the SMO.

On the other hand that could all be lies being spread by the Americans to see if there is any limit to the credulity of NATO's Internet Fan Club. Probably not, at lesast until the Central Heating is turned off and the bread runs out.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 22 2022 19:05 utc | 197

It could be worse than that. I gather that Moscow's next move is to contract for a million Uighurs from the Concentration camps plus Tibetans to take part in Phase 4 of the SMO.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 22 2022 19:05 utc | 197

Don't knock the Tibetans! They've been airborn since long before the invention of fixed wing or rotary-wing aircraft!

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2022 19:11 utc | 198

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2022 18:23 utc | 173

I'll give you my brief recap, Lavrov called Zelensky a son of a bitch, their son of a bitch but a son of a bitch. And that's being courteous, he could have called him a drugged up scum son of a bitch, like some of the wankers puking their crap nonstop here.

Posted by: Paco | Sep 22 2022 19:12 utc | 199

To add to bevin @197, we know things are not going peachy for the empire because the empire’s paid trolls are still here. Oligarchs don’t get rich by paying for labor they don’t need, so if the conflict were going great for them the elites wouldn’t waste their wealth on these trolls.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 22 2022 19:16 utc | 200

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