News & views related to the Ukraine conflict.
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September 22, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-155
News & views related to the Ukraine conflict. Please stick to the topic. The current open thread for other issues is here.
Comments
Any thoughts on the prisoner swap? Is it true Azov leaders were released? Are we happy? Posted by: Jonathan W | Sep 22 2022 10:36 utc | 1 According to last RMOD report, two more HIMARS are down. Does it means 10 down and 6 left, by all rumors and calculations? Posted by: ldragon | Sep 22 2022 10:47 utc | 2 Another strike in the middle of Donetsk today, multiple deaths. Posted by: rk | Sep 22 2022 10:55 utc | 3 Jonathan W | Sep 22 2022 10:36 utc | 2 Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 22 2022 10:58 utc | 4 Did you see that thing in the Wall Street Journal a few days ago? Where Ukrainian grain was undercutting EU farmers producing grain? Risking driving them out of business. That’ll teach those Dutch farmers for protesting! Of course the article claims that the Ukrainian grain should be going to poor countries but what’s that compared to reducing nitrate use in the EU? And do people not know how much fuel it takes to produce nitrates? Posted by: Guy L’Estrange | Sep 22 2022 11:04 utc | 5 The released Nazis will be looked at as traitors who didn’t die in battle; they won’t be trusted; they may well get executed; they certainly won’t trust their Masters who sent missiles to destroy them in captivity. They will remember that the Russians they were captured by were actual humans and not what they believed in their drug addled Nazi training schools and they certainly will be wanting to get rid of all their ugly tattoos knowing they are branded for life. Posted by: DunGroanin | Sep 22 2022 11:05 utc | 6 It seems that USA shall try the expulsion of Russia from UN and Security council, based of majority vote in the UN assembly. Posted by: rex | Sep 22 2022 11:12 utc | 7 Guy L’Estrange @ 6 Posted by: Hereward | Sep 22 2022 11:16 utc | 8 Russians (outside the liberal bubbles from Moscow etc.and the expat russian bloggers with an altright US fanbase) are disgusted or appalled by the release of the creme de la creme of their nazi prisoners. Comments of betrayal rival those of stupidity or corruption. Specially when a corrupt ukrop oligarch tied to the Kremlin is among the exchanged. Posted by: Kareem | Sep 22 2022 11:24 utc | 9 Ruasia looks “reasonable” after the prisoner swap, i.e. weak amd unserious about the destruction of her enemies. Posted by: Herr Ringbone | Sep 22 2022 11:33 utc | 10 Jonathan W | Sep 22 2022 10:36 utc | 2 Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 22 2022 11:33 utc | 11 Ewe Papart weighs in via Asia Times….. Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 22 2022 11:37 utc | 12 The following is speculation on what happens next in 404. Posted by: Sushi | Sep 22 2022 11:44 utc | 13 https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/7877025.html Posted by: Kaiama | Sep 22 2022 11:49 utc | 14 The entire operation was a lie, why? Because oligarchs and kleptocrats can’t be trusted, regardless of where they are. Alexander Dugin himself has said as much, with reference to Russia. Ukraine was invaded under false pretenses, to wit: Russia committed itself to the exact same sort of maximum international crime committed by the US in Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc (although admittedly on a smaller, so far less destructive scale). Posted by: Silvanus | Sep 22 2022 11:50 utc | 15 Posted by: Jonathan W | Sep 22 2022 10:36 utc | 2
Try Military Cronicle: Posted by: António Ferrão | Sep 22 2022 11:50 utc | 16 Posted by: Sushi | Sep 22 2022 11:44 utc | 14 Posted by: Jonathan W | Sep 22 2022 11:50 utc | 17 Posted by: Sushi | Sep 22 2022 11:44 utc | 14 Posted by: Exile | Sep 22 2022 11:53 utc | 18 Given these facts it is likely the members of NATOstan may wish to re-assess their commitment to further poking the bear. Given all of their problems do they really want to risk the arrival of Mr Kinzal? Posted by: CM of Berlin | Sep 22 2022 11:56 utc | 19 Jonathan W | Sep 22 2022 10:36 utc | 2l Posted by: ldragon | Sep 22 2022 11:57 utc | 20 Posted by: ldragon | Sep 22 2022 11:57 utc | 21 Posted by: Jonathan W | Sep 22 2022 12:00 utc | 21 And they could have been put on trial even if there were not to be executed. ON the other hand, it was clear from the outset for many that Medvechuk would be used for prisoner exchange. He was put into custody in April, as we remember. Posted by: Jonathan W | Sep 22 2022 12:04 utc | 22 NATO is not going to back down. Not a bit. That is a delusional theory. Posted by: windwaves | Sep 22 2022 12:06 utc | 23 Legitimniy. Carryover from “Russia Announces Partial Mobilization”. DeepL translation:
Original:
https://t.me/legitimniy/13509 Posted by: js | Sep 22 2022 12:13 utc | 24 @2 Jonathan W Posted by: xeen | Sep 22 2022 12:13 utc | 25 @9 Hereward Posted by: xeen | Sep 22 2022 12:17 utc | 26 what the prisoner exchange shows, again, is that Russia has high ethics and cares for the lives of its soldiers. Rather than gloat over the hanging of some foreign criminals, they chose to save their own people. And nowhere in the Western media will you read about the disgusting tretment the Russian POW’s received. Nor about how NATO, without a care in the world, sends thousands of Ukrainian soldiers to a certain death. So: on side bloodlust, cruelty, cynicism, on the other side decency and loyalism. What do you choose trolls, do you even understand? Posted by: Anthony | Sep 22 2022 12:18 utc | 27 There was a 4:1 RU/UA prisoner swap? I remember when the UA were frustrated because RU insisted 1:1. Plus, one of the prisoners is just some UA dude. More evidence Russia is not doing well. Posted by: GoFast | Sep 22 2022 12:18 utc | 28 The prisoner exchange is interesting. What seems like a long time ago at the start of ukraines stupidity there was a rabbit anti Russian lady (I use the word losely) who was guilty of various crimes against humanity and was considered a hero of Ukraine. Her names escapes me and everyone seems to have forgotten about the episode. Posted by: halofive | Sep 22 2022 12:19 utc | 29 I understand that the grain shipped from 404 is of low quality, and only good enough for animal feed. Posted by: Tedder | Sep 22 2022 12:21 utc | 30 It’s going to be glorious listening to the Blinken Administration denounce the referendums today as shams, after working so hard to provoke the entire situation from literally the other side of the globe. I imagine people out there voting risk being killed by weapons furnished by the Wretched City, vanguard of wholesome goodness and fair play. Posted by: chunga | Sep 22 2022 12:24 utc | 31 What is Putin’s true endgame? Perhaps permanent separation of Russia, in its own sort of “Brexit,” and the sequestration of its people into a more or less purely Asiatic bloc of tyrants, autocrats, and other authoritarian tyranno-capitalists. In any case, this Special Operation is clearly not what it claims to be. Who can not honestly recognize the obviousness of the false nature of this war as a whole? Posted by: Tedder | Sep 22 2022 12:25 utc | 32 @Kareem #10 Posted by: c1ue | Sep 22 2022 12:31 utc | 33 @Sushi #14 Posted by: c1ue | Sep 22 2022 12:34 utc | 34 @Silvanus #16 Posted by: c1ue | Sep 22 2022 12:35 utc | 35 From IntelSlava reposting from rybar, the breakdown of the Russian prisoners swooped
Posted by: Down South | Sep 22 2022 12:37 utc | 36 re: CM of Berlin | Sep 22 2022 11:56 utc | 20 Posted by: tucenz | Sep 22 2022 12:40 utc | 37 re: CM of Berlin | Sep 22 2022 11:56 utc | 20 Posted by: tucenz | Sep 22 2022 12:40 utc | 38 It is therefore likely NATOstan will follow the US lead and dial back support for 404. Posted by: Martina | Sep 22 2022 12:45 utc | 39 @38 tucenz Posted by: xeen | Sep 22 2022 12:50 utc | 40 Serious question – what happens when the gas and oil sales to Europe stop? Posted by: P J | Sep 22 2022 12:59 utc | 41 Posted by: P J | Sep 22 2022 12:59 utc | 42 Posted by: xeen | Sep 22 2022 13:09 utc | 42 @Xeen 41 Posted by: Arminius | Sep 22 2022 13:09 utc | 43 I post this for MOAers “entertainment”. It was in the Guardian recently. This person is crazy, stupid and worse – these people are crazy, stupid and worse. Posted by: tucenz | Sep 22 2022 13:11 utc | 44 This immediately solves the Russian manpower dis-advantage, while providing time to build cohesion in the force structure. How Ukrainian forces and its mercenaries are torturing and gruesomely murdering Russian troops, videoing the murders, and posting them online to try and turn Russians against the conflict, extra propaganda is provided by Valent Projects a UK deep state connected PR group. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 22 2022 13:16 utc | 46 Two of the latest videos from Andrei Martyanov Posted by: Down South | Sep 22 2022 13:20 utc | 47 Given these facts it is likely the members of NATOstan may wish to re-assess their commitment to further poking the bear. Given all of their problems do they really want to risk the arrival of Mr Kinzal? Mercouris and Garland Nixon livestream now. two of the best IMO. Posted by: migueljose | Sep 22 2022 13:24 utc | 49 From IntelSlava
Posted by: Down South | Sep 22 2022 13:25 utc | 50 Sushi@14 Posted by: McAgnew | Sep 22 2022 13:26 utc | 51 108 neo-Nazis returned to the Azov battalion, including high ranking Azov commanders, these animals will go straight back into the conflict and commit war crimes, and crimes against humanity. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 22 2022 13:27 utc | 52 “Neither will there be an additional call-up of reservists” Posted by: Yenwoda | Sep 22 2022 13:30 utc | 53 Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 22 2022 13:27 utc | 52 Posted by: KitaySupporter | Sep 22 2022 13:36 utc | 54 NATO is not going to back down. Not a bit. That is a delusional theory. Posted by: rex | Sep 22 2022 13:40 utc | 56 Putin should have mobilized his reserves back in 2014 after the US sponsored Kiev Maidan-Nuland coup, installed their US stooge Porochenko who also ordered the Kiev Nazis to start shelling-bombing the Donbas Russian speaking civilians. Posted by: Hannibal | Sep 22 2022 13:41 utc | 57 @43 Arminius Posted by: xeen | Sep 22 2022 13:52 utc | 58 I think it may depend on perspective, but I would say that the Russian build-up will initially serve only to stabilize the front – providing some degree of normalcy of life in the liberated/conquered/seperatist areas. Unfortunately, Ukraine will respond with further provocations – missile attacks on civilian areas. Russia will respond with further more damaging attacks on infrastructure (Yugoslavia in slomo) and will then require Russia to further “escalate” to clear the Uskies back – the Dnieper (+ some) seems ideal for the near term. Posted by: jared | Sep 22 2022 13:59 utc | 59 It seems some progress is being made on Russia’s attempts to engage the interest of the UN in the biolabs dotted about Ukraine. This from the Russian MoD (I reproduce in full because you can’t access the site without a Russian VPN server): Long read but worth it. Posted by: pasha | Sep 22 2022 14:00 utc | 60 DunGroanin@6 Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 22 2022 14:01 utc | 61 And as Garland Nixon and A. Mercouris just said, this prisoner swap will keep Turkey (the mediator) in the game, bolstering its position in the battle of the MIR card etc. Posted by: Jonathan W | Sep 22 2022 14:07 utc | 62 Honestly, I don’t understand how patrons at the bar can speak with such confidence about what either Russia or US/NATO/EU is going to do. Posted by: Objective Observer | Sep 22 2022 14:08 utc | 63 More recent from PCR who is clearly relieved by RF’s latest step: It seems some progress is being made on Russia’s attempts to engage the interest of the UN in the biolabs dotted about Ukraine. Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 22 2022 14:13 utc | 65 They just sternly do whatever the government tells them to do, even when it’s obvious to any schoolgirl how contradictory, incompetent and authoritarian the Greens are, and how destructive their policies are to the country. And they like to ostracize everyone who does not follow the government’s instructions. Likely that, while some Azov guys will be held in Turkey for a while at least, the US Mercs and selected special skills people will be released to wherever the CIA wants them to go. Yes or no? Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Sep 22 2022 14:17 utc | 67 Posted by: Hereward | Sep 22 2022 11:16 utc | 8 Posted by: Mo3 | Sep 22 2022 14:19 utc | 68 @McAgnew | Sep 22 2022 13:26 utc | 51
Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 22 2022 14:22 utc | 69 It is therefore likely NATOstan will follow the US lead and dial back support for 404. Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 22 2022 14:24 utc | 70 Symmetrical response? Posted by: LeoV | Sep 22 2022 14:27 utc | 71 news report (imagined). . . Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 22 2022 14:28 utc | 72 @Silvanus 15
After nearly a decade of artillery, rocket and missile attacks on civilian centers in the autonomous regions of the Ukraine, resulting in over 14,000 documented deaths of Russian Ukrainians, recorded in painful detail by OSCE monitors, with the Ukraine rejecting implementation of the Minsk Accords and escalating the bombardment in preparation for an imminent attack. Luhansk and Donetsk declared independence and appealed to Russia for assistance. Posted by: Hermit | Sep 22 2022 14:31 utc | 73 PS @70 Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 22 2022 14:32 utc | 74 Brzezinski said in 1972 that, “international banks and multinational corporations are acting and planning in terms that are far in advance of the political concepts of the nation-state.” Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Sep 22 2022 14:33 utc | 75 … I wonder what happened to that US (bald guy) I think he was lieutenant-Colonel who was trapped in the Mariupol plant, and there was also the retired American Colonel who we saw as a captured prisoner taken out of the Mariupol plant. I wonder if the former died, and the latter exchanged or released. Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 22 2022 14:35 utc | 76 Interesting exercise for an economics student – could you build a sustainable nation with so many resource areas gone? KitaySupporter (54). Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 22 2022 14:42 utc | 78 When Putin said “If the territorial integrity of our country is threatened, we will without doubt use all available means to protect Russia and our people – this is not a bluff”. . . it is “a nuclear threat to West” in the MSM. Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 22 2022 14:43 utc | 79 I’ve read most of the posts above and what comes through clearly is that no one sat in on the meetings that led to the decisions to hold the referenda or to make the prisoner swap. Just quickly, I catch that many comments ignore important aspects of both questions. As an example, some do not realize that the Ukrainazi prisoners in the exchange will be spending the time till the conflict ends in Turkey, not Ukraine, thus they will not be donning their armbands and jackboots any time soon. All this tells me that we should perhaps hold our peace till we know exactly what is afoot, that, should we speak precipitously, we risk making fools of ourselves and proving that to the world very soon. Posted by: Jack Gordon | Sep 22 2022 14:44 utc | 80 Don Bacon@69 Posted by: McAgnew | Sep 22 2022 14:49 utc | 81 DPR Human Rights Ombudsman Office has published statistics on DPR deaths resulting from Ukraine’s war on Donbass: War deaths in the DPR It seems to me that the number of civilian deaths in 2022 only includes deaths within pre-2022 territory. There must have been at least a thousand civilian deaths just in Mariupol alone. Posted by: S | Sep 22 2022 14:54 utc | 82 Reports coming out from some of the ethnic republics that male university students are being taken straight out of classes. Some schools have closed and turned into enlistment offices. Men are being rounded up and conscripted from small villages. Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 22 2022 14:56 utc | 83 … this prisoner swap will keep Turkey (the mediator) in the game, bolstering its position in the battle of the MIR card etc. Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 22 2022 14:57 utc | 84 @ McAgnew | Sep 22 2022 14:49 utc | 81 Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 22 2022 14:57 utc | 85 Ukrainian Armed Forces have shelled a market in Donetsk, killing 6 people: video. There were two hits: one at a minibus near flower stands, another near a grocery store. Posted by: S | Sep 22 2022 14:59 utc | 86 The US-Ukraine strategy is sweet news to the US-MIC. Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 22 2022 15:06 utc | 87 Was just looking at photos of the released Russian prisoners. I have been one of those. I have escorted others out the gate. I know what a released prisoner looks like. This ain’t it. Those prisoners have been used hard. Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 22 2022 15:08 utc | 88 Instinctively, releasing the Azov guys is prima facie a betrayal of the Principles of Justice RU et al have long been making a big noise about. How many times did we hear “War crimes and crimes against humanity shall not stand!” and “War Crime Tribunals”? Given what’s happened, too many. Posted by: HMS Terror | Sep 22 2022 15:11 utc | 89 I understand that the grain shipped from 404 is of low quality, and only good enough for animal feed. Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 22 2022 15:20 utc | 90 I agree with the sentiment that the USA and its EU vassals are all in, because in a sense they have only victory or death as an option. It is clear (to me at least) that this conflict which has been manufactured over the past decade or more is a continuation of the Reset program which was kicked off by the response to SARS-Cov-2. Specifically the mass upward transfer of wealth and the hobbling of small and medium business combined with manufactured scarcity and the destruction of entire economies. Posted by: Chevrus | Sep 22 2022 15:20 utc | 91 Gonzalo Lira reports in the following epiphany that he had to leave his apt because he is being targeted for elimination. He is telling all…. Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 22 2022 15:24 utc | 92 Ain’t Capitalism grand? Because that’s what WWIII is folks – the survival of Capitalism – the commoditization of creation – at any cost. Greed is the root of all evil and greed drives today’s conflicts. Everything else is spin. Posted by: gottlieb | Sep 22 2022 15:26 utc | 93 Tom UK | Sep 22 2022 14:56 utc | 83 Posted by: Pricknick | Sep 22 2022 15:28 utc | 94 @93 gottlieb Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 22 2022 15:32 utc | 95 Re: The prisoner swap. Posted by: Tom | Sep 22 2022 15:33 utc | 96 anon2020 @ 76 Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 22 2022 15:35 utc | 97 @93 Tom – Greed has nothing to do with business Tom, like Empire has nothing to do with democracy, the rule of law or simple decency. And the point of surviving WWIII, which is US policy, is to rid the world of useless eaters like yourself. Posted by: gottlieb | Sep 22 2022 15:36 utc | 98 Posted by: HMS Terror | Sep 22 2022 15:11 utc | 89
Depends on your instincts. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 22 2022 15:39 utc | 99 >Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 22 2022 14:56 utc | 83 Posted by: Ivan | Sep 22 2022 15:43 utc | 100 |
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