Russia Retaliates For Ukrainian Strikes On Russian Controlled Electricity Networks
A typical U.S. attack on a foreign country begins with a swarm of cruise missiles which will disable the countries basic infrastructure. The U.S. attack on Iraq and other countries demonstrated that electricity and water supply will be gone in first days of a U.S. waged war.
Over more than 200 days the Russian special military operation in Ukraine had never attacked the basic infrastructure of the country. When the Ukraine used its electrified railway network to bring in weapons from the 'west' the Russian forces only took out electric substations that supplied the railway. But it never attacked the general electricity production for the population. The lights in Ukraine staid on.
One thus wonders about the Ukrainian decision makers and their 'western' intelligence minders who thought that attacking electricity networks under Russian control would somehow benefit their cause.
The Ukrainian military has for weeks attacked the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, since early March under Russian control and guarded by Russian troops, with artillery strikes. Yesterday the last of the plant's six reactors had to shut down after its connection to external emergency power supply was destroyed during another Ukrainian artillery attack. (The line was later restored.)
It was not the only target of Ukrainian infrastructure attacks. As British intelligence asset Bellingcat mouthpiece Christo Gorzev tweeted gleefully:
Christo Grozev @christogrozev - 23:05 UTC · Sep 7, 2022Half of Belgorod is left without electricity after what appears to be a Ukrainian attack on its central electricity distribution station
Embedded video
Belgorod is a city in Russia a few miles north of the border to Ukraine.
Yesterday's report by the Russian Defense Ministry about its war effort complained about systematic Ukrainian attacks on the electricity infrastructure of Donetsk city and other places:
In order to destabilize the situation in the territory liberated by the Russian Armed Forces and the suffering of civilians, the Kiev regime continues its deliberate shelling of energy infrastructure: generating facilities, transformer substations, and power lines.Since September 1 this year, the territory of the Zaporozhye NPP and the city of Energodar have been subjected to artillery fire from the Ukrainian Armed Forces 26 times, including the territory of the nuclear plant.
At the same time, as a result of aimed fire on the transformer substation on September 6 and the power line on September 8, the city of Energodar was twice remained without electricity.
In the territory of the Donetsk People's Republic, Ukrainian artillery repeatedly struck 22 important power supply facilities in order to de-energize populated areas, kindergartens, life support facilities for the population, and industrial enterprises.
On September 1, three mines of the Donetsk Coal Energy Company, where dozens of miners were trapped underground, were de-energized as a result of the strike.
Yesterday, September 10, 19 transformer substations in the Petrovsky district of Donetsk were de-energized due to shelling by the Ukrainian Armed Forces. More than 1,600 civilian objects were remained without electricity as a result of the shelling.
It's important to say that the daily strikes against civilian infrastructure are carried out by the Kiev regime in a deliberate and targeted manner.
By systematically attacking the power infrastructure in Russia and in Russian held territory the Ukrainian government has launched deliberate terror attacks against the populations in those areas.
It seemed to have forgotten the remarks of Russian President Vladimir Putin who had said:
[E]veryone should know that, by and large, we have not started anything in earnest yet.
Yesterday evening Russian cruise missiles were launched from Russian ships in the Black and the Caspian Sea. They were targeted to interrupt, not yet destroy, four Ukrainian power plants and to temporarily disable the Ukrainian electricity network:
Russia attacked power stations and other infrastructure Sunday, causing widespread outages across Ukraine as Kyiv’s forces pressed a swift counteroffensive that has driven Moscow’s troops from swaths of territory it had occupied in the northeast.The bombardment ignited a massive fire at a power station on Kharkiv’s western outskirts and killed at least one person. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy denounced the “deliberate and cynical missile strikes” against civilian targets as acts of terrorism.
Ukraine’s second-largest city of Kharkiv appeared to be without power Sunday night. Cars drove through darkened streets, and the few pedestrians used flashlights or mobile phones to light their way.
The attacks also disrupted the Ukrainian military railway transports which currently move troops from the north and west towards the Vuhledar area in the southeast from where they plan to attack in the direction of Mariupol.
Flash symbols show attacks on electricity infrastructure
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Weeks after he himself had ordered attacks on civilian power infrastructure in Russian held territory the Ukrainian President Zelenski cynically denounced the obvious retaliation by Russia as 'terrorism':
Володимир Зеленський @ZelenskyyUa - 18:52 UTC · Sep 11, 2022A total blackout in the Kharkiv & Donetsk regions, a partial one in the Zaporizhzhia, Dnipropetrovsk & Sumy regions. RF terrorists remain terrorists & attack critical infrastructure. No military facilities, the goal is to deprive people of light & heat.
#RussiaIsATerroristState
The Russian attacks were a mere warning shot. It can take out ALL of Ukraine's power infrastructure at any time:
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Will the Ukrainian leadership pay heed to the warning?
Don't bet on that. As long as 'western' media cover for the Zelenski regime, by not reporting on its preceding efforts to disrupt power supplies in Russia and in Russian held territory, such attacks will naturally generate more false sympathy for the Ukrainian side.
Ukrainian media are already preparing the population for more attacks:
How to survive in a house without gas, water supply, electricity, cellular reception
How? By watching Youtube videos:
Nadiya Matveyeva’s Nadiyni Porady (Reliable advice) YouTube playlist offers simple but important rules that will help to maintain health, solve everyday issues, protect yourself and your family during the full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. The TV presenter provides answers to questions that concern everyone: ...
Good luck with that when the networks are down.
Vladimir Zelinski is not a rational politician or decision maker. He is an actor who pretends to have a huge dick with which he can play a piano (vid). Everything that he and his producer team in Kiev do must be seen in that light. They are playing to the Ukrainian and 'western' public for personal profits. Each of their moves is calculated with that in mind. Telling the truth and the welfare of the local population are of no concern to them.
When they decided to attack power infrastructure in Russia and Russian held territory they had already calculated that the inevitable retaliation by Russia would help their primary cause and will shuffle many more millions of 'western' subsidies into their off-shore bank accounts.
Our media and politicians are cynically supporting them in this.
Posted by b on September 12, 2022 at 7:45 UTC | Permalink
next page »"Our media an politicians" are just as corrupt as Z and his pupeteers.
The suicide of Europe cannot be explained any other way.
Posted by: Goingo | Sep 12 2022 7:58 utc | 2
I agree that Russia has fought in the hopes that Ukraine comes to it's senses and throws off the hidden hand that plays it like a marionette.
Alas, since 2014 Ukraine is run by brothel puppets. No sense forthcoming.
Roll them all back to the Polish border.
Posted by: Jacq | Sep 12 2022 8:09 utc | 3
Lira - "The lights went out here in Kharkov at 8pm local time. They came back on at exactly 2am (I can tell by the electric clock on the microwave).
Surprisingly, this has been the first blackout of the war."
.......
Reading through some telegram accounts, power came back on in the cities but the regions remained without power.
As for the trigger or the straw that broke the camels back - the strikes came shortly after Putin's phone call with Macron in which the Ukie strikes on the ZNPP was 'discussed'.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 12 2022 8:11 utc | 4
So Russia only temporarily knockout Ukraine power when could have so permanently? So Russia is STILL not fighting in earnest. Russia STILL doesn't get that she is at war with NATO and USA, not Ukraine, and is in affect playing to lose, not win.
Posted by: timbers | Sep 12 2022 8:13 utc | 5
Ramzan Kadyrov is not pleased with the way this war is being run. I don't blame him. This nice guy , half assed approach of Putin's is complete nonsense. Its war, commit, fight to win or just go home. This route , was a failure of high command, of Putin . in particular. NO amount of bullshit is going to make this one look pretty.
Posted by: Buford T. Justi | Sep 12 2022 8:16 utc | 6
cold dark reality will last about 3 days tops before the people all leave. try turning internet off on any teenager , they crack after 10 mins
Posted by: hankster | Sep 12 2022 8:18 utc | 7
timbers | Sep 12 2022 8:13 utc | 5 "Russia STILL doesn't get that she is at war with NATO and USA, not Ukraine, and is in affect playing to lose, not win."
Your comment is self defeating. If Russia did not get that, it would be destroying Ukraine. Russia's main game is to destroy five-eyes and Europe. Once that is done, Ukraine is no longer a threat.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 12 2022 8:18 utc | 8
In an existential battle, in which at least one side is fighting an actual war, giving quarter or holding back is a crime against your country.
Russia will never be accepted as a legitimate entity by the collective waste and must adapt its thinking accordingly. Leaving the power on shouldn’t even be under consideration,
Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 12 2022 8:21 utc | 9
" timbers Your comment is self defeating. If Russia did not get that, it would be destroying Ukraine. Russia's main game is to destroy five-eyes and Europe. Once that is done, Ukraine is no longer a threat."
I would suggest it is YOUR comment that is self defeating and comments like yours. Russia is not serious. If she is not serious, she should end the SMO and go home.
Posted by: timbers | Sep 12 2022 8:24 utc | 10
AS I understand it turning off all of the electrical grid in Ukraine would lead to possible meltdowns in remaining nuclear plants.
I had another nightmare. Poland was officially entering the war.. in st Petersburg .. an old factory had been converted into a coworking venue .. I had a latte and walked around.. ended up talking business
Posted by: Moaobserver | Sep 12 2022 8:26 utc | 11
" Russia's main game is to destroy five-eyes and Europe. Once that is done, Ukraine is no longer a threat."
Peter you are incorrect. I suggest you go back and read Putin's stated goals. He says nothing about you falsely identify in your quote.
Posted by: timbers | Sep 12 2022 8:27 utc | 12
German government overhelmed by ukraines successes wants now to deliver more weapons especially MARDER
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/ampel-bundesregierung-waffenlieferungen-ukraine-101.html
Es gelte nun, "das Momentum für die Ukraine zu nutzen"
Now its important, "to then take advantage of the situation with the appropriate momentum" to deliver more weapons
It is no longer 5 minutes before 12; it is long since 5 PAST 12.
Last chance to bring the mess into right direction and go for full REAL war
Posted by: Tiroler | Sep 12 2022 8:29 utc | 13
@ b
If I might make a suggestion, consider bouncing this troubled individual out of the bar and deleting all its repetitive dreck like this:
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So there is some small chance he's been captured? I want to drink that chain smoking LOSERS tears as he cries out in pain from torture.
Posted by: t | Sep 11 2022 21:21 utc | 405
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I read comment threads backwards and skip most comments by the new visitors. But, some of our regular patrons have been reading and replying. By reading their replies, I've gotten a glimpse of some of the dreck. AFAICT, this "t" just makes trouble.
Posted by: dfg | Sep 12 2022 8:36 utc | 14
Check out the "Military Summary" YouTube channel's take on the power cuts.
Basically, NATO has amassed this new armoured force in Ukraine, Russia has withdrawn from Kharkov, so said NATO army is being transferred (by rail) to Donbas and Kherson.
Most train transport in Ukraine relies on electricity ...
Russia now knows what Ukraine (i mean NATO) has assembled and where it is, and is already said to be bombing the train routes.
This new NATO army with its new armour formations will be at least party destroyed before it even makes contact with the enemy.
Not saying this was the plan all along, but still, keep an eye out for more electricity cuts and train station bombings.
Posted by: Keith | Sep 12 2022 8:36 utc | 15
What is Ukraine without its backers. Russia will dictate terms and a new constitution. Nazi will be outlawed with the government held personally responsible by Russia. School curriculums will have factual history and outline the genocide conducted by their current hero's. Like Japans was, the constitution will also include demilitarization.
Russia will not be conducting a US Afghanistan 20 year occupation with US/UK operating an insurgency.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 12 2022 8:37 utc | 16
Demity Medevdev just "twitted" on his Telegram:
Someone Zelensky said that he would not engage in dialogue with those who put forward ultimatums. The current [Russian] "ultimatums" are a children's warm-up for the demands of the future. And he knows them: the total capitulation of the Kiev regime on Russia's terms.
Hahahahahaha! The velvet gloves of Mother Russia just came off! One glove.
I think Russia is finally realizing that though the Ukies are "brothers", if they keep on keeping on in this SMO, the bare knuckled fists are coming: Putin's "we have not started anything in earnest yet."
BTW, the destruction of electricity is a form of chemical warfare as the Americans know and that is why they knock out power generation stations at the BEGINNING of their genocidal military ops . . . like in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Because in modern societies, of which Ukraine is surviving in, it takes electricity to bring clean water to citizens in cities, towns and villages. People must have clean water to survive, to clean themselves, etc. Good luck to those living in high rises buildings.
So, this temporary blackout situation is only a taste of what's to come.
Posted by: Sam Smith | Sep 12 2022 8:40 utc | 17
In response to the post by ‘Timbers’, I would like to offer a different hypothesis: I think that Russia ACTUALLY DOES understand the nature of the war she is fighting and would argue that you are only most likely partially correct: well it is true that ‘on paper’ NATO is involved (and indeed, to a degree in the real world as well), NATO is not ‘unified’ and among NATO nations, there are different degrees of ‘Enthusiasm’ insofar as participation is can learn. Some nations, such as Britain primarily – are very enthusiastic about being involved while other nations ‘not so much’… They have ‘serious misgivings’. A couple of other points: among the General Public in NATO/EU nations, THEY are not anywhere near as enthusiastic as the ruling classes. I’ve seen polls suggesting that a bit north of 60% of the EU General Population is really not at all happy with the fact that there nations and the West are involved at all in terms of supporting Ukraine. They just want heat and light and jobs and don’t want to continue to see food prices increase. And their discontent is growing and it is going to continue to grow over the winter. As for the US, reportedly something like 85% of the US population is really ‘ticked off’ by the amount of attention and support from the US federal government on this matter when they see all kinds of problems ‘at home’ that they would far prefer to see their federal government deal with. My theory is that Vladimir Putin CLEARLY KNOWS AND UNDERSTANDS THIS and his/Russia’s approach in the struggle is to simply GRADUALLY, INEXORABLY ‘raise the pressure’ on Ukraine and ‘wait’/’bide his time’ and see what happens particularly over the next two months until the midterm election voting in the US is over with and see how the situation looks than. Beyond that, I think he just wants to wait for and to see waht effects of all of the economic hardship in Europe by the general population is going to have on national governments in leadership. Governments are going to fall… Vladimir Putin, over many, many years – has demonstrated that he as an enormous ability to not react emotionally and/or overreact and just wait… Wait. ‘Patience’.
Posted by: GM | Sep 12 2022 8:47 utc | 18
It is clear that this excellent blog is under concerted attack by CIA bots. So it is disturbing by piercing the censorship of big tech. I can't wait for a general blackout in the EU, if only for a few hours. That would calm some of them down ... definitely.
Posted by: octron | Sep 12 2022 8:51 utc | 19
Posted by: Moaobserver | Sep 12 2022 8:26 utc | 13
No they won't "melt down". They just disconnect from the grid and can't feed it until it becomes "stable" again. If Russians take out more thermal plants it will become continuously harder to keep it stable and prioritize electricity to most important circuits.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 12 2022 8:54 utc | 20
The war has entered a new leg of escalation before finding a negotiation equilibrium. The only hope was a decisive Russian victory over the Ukrainian army for an end. Otherwise this will necessarily drag on for a long time or the Russians will get brutal. Both prospects are horrific.
Of course, how this war ends doesn't matter much at the macro level, the West is deluded to think that if Russia loses this war that Putin will be pushed out by the Russian public they're as insane as the German high command who thought bombing British cities would make them less and not more inclined to keep fighting. The outbreak of this war and the new cold war with it are exactly the kind of situation where Putin is of most value, nobody in Russia is under any delusions that the US will tolerate anything but a Yeltsin-like feudalistic oligarchy.
What matters isn't this proxy war but the new cold war that has been started. Europe has already by default been knocked out of the fight, it's economy taking trillions in loses already. Young people were already living in an economic depression anyway, unable to seriously aspire to owning a proper home or have children while their governments just kept importing more and more ethnic alien competition who also sapped internal cohesion or sense of ownership of the country, a kind of social pollution that makes natives innately depressed and feeling defeated.
The right wing think the West won the original Cold War because of mighty capitalism (Though it should be said, what passed for capitalism during most of it would be decried by modern neoliberals as 'socialism' by comparison, even somebody like Nixon would be appalled at what right wing economics is about today) and not really because the bulk of the world's capital was within the West, see how North Korea became desolate (It was doing a lot better than South Korea for the first few decades) not because of it's own policies but because it was completely isolated from the global economy and global capital, made even worse after the Soviet Union fell.
That isn't so today. Crappy hyper-individualistic anti-nationalist neoliberal regimes can't compete long-term with collectivist regimes engaged in serious long-term planning. A combination of Russia and China along represents an entity that can't be defeated but the prospect of India and much of the 'Global South' joining in too makes Europe, ANZA and US/Can look like very isolated places on the map.
Posted by: Altai | Sep 12 2022 8:54 utc | 21
How come everybody suddenly gets in a flap? Russia pulled back, took no losses, and baited a huge swathe of enemy troops off their allies frontlines. I don't see this as any sort of defeat for them, just an excersize in mobility tactics. The MSM is making this out to be a turning point for Ukraine, and it seems a lot of fellow barflies are confused as to it's true gravitas.
Relax, it will all become clear in the next few weeks.
Posted by: Femail | Sep 12 2022 8:59 utc | 22
I don't think Putin wants to turn the average Ukrainian against Russia; I think many Ukrainians especially those in the Eastern regions that speak Russian have an inkling as to what's going on. However, it may be necessary to for the RF to take out power plants etc across Ukraine, a step I'm sure Putin would rather have avoided.
As you rightly say, Zelensky will use any measures necessary, regardless of the human cost and suffering to the Ukrainian people, for the West, it's not about what's right, it's about how you can spin the propaganda to suit your agenda.
It looks like hostilities might be ready to step up a gear, more's the pity.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 12 2022 9:03 utc | 23
Is the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant linked to the Russian or EU grid?
Posted by: Hereward | Sep 12 2022 9:06 utc | 24
Posted by: andrsib | Sep 12 2022 7:56 utc | 1
Even so, we never saw Russians go even THIS far to help themselves during these six months. It is still a positive sign.
Posted by: Z_- | Sep 12 2022 9:08 utc | 25
I understand the frustration of many pro-Russian Western commentators here because as they see it, Russia is not fighting in earnest, that is, declaring a total war on Ukraine. Such views fail to understanding and/or appreciate the thinking of the Russian military leadership, which is very rational and methodical. Yesterday Medvedev repeated again that all goals of the SMO will be achieved. These goals are to liberate the two Donbas republics (in addition to demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine). After that, Russia may declare war on Ukraine but not before that.
Posted by: Don Quixote | Sep 12 2022 9:12 utc | 26
I wonder if there is an unwritten agreement between Russia and the West concerning red lines.
I think a humanitarian crisis would precipitate a ‘humanitarian’ intervention from the West (Kosovo mark II).
Posted by: Johnycomelately | Sep 12 2022 9:18 utc | 28
Posted by: andrsib | Sep 12 2022 7:56 utc | 1
That is far more rational reason than any form of retaliation.
Russians do not retaliate. They didn't change their plans or retaliate even when Ukies did far worse (like torture and kill Russian POWs).
Russian military cool headedly follows its plans. They do not get distracted or influenced by provocations.
Posted by: Abe | Sep 12 2022 9:20 utc | 29
Putin does not want to be known as the person that started WWIII and the destruction of the world by Nuclear weapons. The "first strike" will be by the US, as this "ability" is what they are trying to get.
Either for blackmail where weapons are concerned, or, as Macron has seemingly tried to do, get control over ZNPP and then successive Nuclear plants through introducing false "International" Organisations such as the IAEI. Again by blackmail, => "We will only stop shelling ZNPP, if control is given to a half-wit zelensky, to build N bombs." (What a choice !)
***
(Reminder; First strike was also to be by "Aegis ashore" in Roumania and Poland)
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Note that the Ukranian troops are now ON the Russian border. Will they stop or try to replicate their original pre-February plan to attack through Russian territory down through Rostov-on-Don? I hope for our sake they don't, as this automatically leads to to a direct Russia-NATO/US war. Now that the gloves have come off as to who is fighting who, and in spite of the apparent wish by the MSM to continue to hide that NATO is now on the ground by ignoring the evidence. (Probably explains why the troll employment bureaux are offering full-time employment for those who wish to get on in the world and actually pay for a pizza deLuxe to eat. Calzoni?)
****
Ending the "conflict" includes the collapse of the EU, from combined US greed and their own incompetence. Since they are now the main (or principal transit routes) suppliers, they have designated themselves as "participants".
QED.
***
I am somewhat jealous of Peter in Australia, which, according to hollywood, will be the last place to keep cows peacefully, while staying alive. However, since all those people from Hollywood are already moving down there, it might get crowded. (ie. Full of old crows instead of cows?)
Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 12 2022 9:24 utc | 30
I don't think the railway grid point is true. If power breaks down, you take a Diesel engine and haul the train on. You just have to get that engine to where it is needed and manage to have it overtake the train stopped. It maybe messy, especially near to the frontline where the railway network is already damaged, and the closer to the frontline, the less junctions you have at your disposal. But it's certainly feasible.
Posted by: Zojek | Sep 12 2022 9:29 utc | 31
Excellent historical review of relations for the last hundred years in Europe, especially bwtween Germany, Ukraine and Russia.
DIANA JOHNSTONE: The Specter of Germany is Rising
Consortium News, September 12
Posted by: HelenB | Sep 12 2022 9:35 utc | 32
@37 Zojek "If power breaks down, you take a Diesel engine and haul the train on."
First, you need to get yourself a diesel train.....
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 12 2022 9:43 utc | 33
@34 Johnycomelately "I wonder if there is an unwritten agreement between Russia and the West concerning red lines."
I'm pretty certain that the Russians have already made known their opinion of the worth of Western "unwritten agreements".
A major reason why the SMO started in the first place, IMHO.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 12 2022 9:46 utc | 34
Dear NATOstanis,
I’ll play “concern troll” in reverse for a moment.
Read the history of NATO aggression since it’s existence. Now look at the declining living standards throughout NATOstan since 1970 or even since 1992 by which time it should’ve been disbanded. Most of our national treasures have been spent on maintaining and extending the empire.
Your neighbors, your parents, your kids, your siblings, your classmates, your friends. Whats their obesity rate? How many meds are they taking? What’s their student debt? Can they afford a home? What’s going on with skyrocketing crime? Why are so many people living in tents? Why are the borders not secure? Why are so many well-meaning, hard-working “salt of the earth” kids joining the military to bomb innocent people in multiple countries on the other side of the globe, when there’s so much unaddressed work to be done here at home? What kind of future are you working towards?
Maybe some of you earn a paycheck for posting here. If so, I understand. Keep taking the money as long as you lack other options and the evil assholes who cut your checks keep cutting them. But, find a way to get out of this rut. I mean save your money and spend your free time working towards a brighter future. Learn electrical work. Study nursing. Whatever it is, find something more productive and helpful to your friends and family than just learning how to follow orders and bullshit. Bullshit does not put more food on more tables. It just transfers food between tables. Again, look how that’s been working for “western civilization”.
Don’t bother replying. Just think about it.
Posted by: dfg | Sep 12 2022 9:48 utc | 35
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 12 2022 9:43 utc | 41
I suggest using buckets to manually fill diesel locomotive tanks.
Posted by: António Ferrão | Sep 12 2022 9:50 utc | 36
Russia needs to stop playing around and find their end game and act on it. The more they drag this on the more opportunities they give to the U.S. and it's allies to pull off a Hail Mary. I just don't see how dragging this conflict out benefits Russia in the long-term. Winter will suck for Europe after all the sanctions, but Europe and America aren't defeated yet. They have experienced darker moments than this in the past and overcome.
Posted by: Prometheus Defiant | Sep 12 2022 9:51 utc | 37
@ Altai 25
The right wing do not think. Money can be made by betting , or hedging, on failure. The aim is no longer the viability of the population, but the use of IT to make money. Mindfulness no longer exists in the world of Western politics.
If the West prefers its mindless nihilism, to eradicate mindfulness across the world, it will target countries where mindfulness is strong, which is why we get the War on Islam following 9/11.
Russia and China practice the mindfulness of protection of society, and they are next on the list to be destroyed. The refugees are coming from the mindful countries that the West has attacked at different times.
Posted by: Giyane | Sep 12 2022 9:52 utc | 38
The sudden uncontrolled shutdown of the electric transmission network likely destroyed many connected devices. Their inverters and transformers.
There are videos online of transit systems burning from their pantographs. A lot of electric traction engines are going to need serious repair.
Posted by: too scents | Sep 12 2022 9:53 utc | 39
Here's what I posted on Andrei Martyanov's site today :
For once I'm unhappy with Andrei. I have very much esteem and respect for him, I own his books and generally I quite agree with what he says. And I'm a Russophile Frenchman. But today I totally disagree.
I'm not an "expert" but I can recognize a dismal failure when I see one. And I can see the difference between a highly-detailed map intended for military operations and a basic roughly-colored sketch that just tries to give a general idea of the situation.
What happens at the moment is this : some Russian generals who attended professional War Academies and who are very good at math got over-confident and were taken totally by surprise, completely off-guard. 30,000 Ukrainians were coming with weapons, vehicles, ammo, food, equipment, whatever and these so-good-at-math generals didn't see a single one of them. NOT ONE ! And why didn't they see anything ? Because they were not looking, that's why ! 30,000 men were on the move and satellites didn't see anything ? Aircraft didn't see anything ? Drones didn't see anything ? Intelligence networks didn't report anything ? Don't give me that ! Those fancy War Academy generals weren't looking and that's it. I call that sheer incompetence and crass naiveté.
And now Putin must compensate for this PR disaster and the slap-in-the-face received by the world's most powerful army. Sorry about that. I'm not pleased about it at all.
Thank God, Putin seems to understand that he MUST do something to restore the Russian Army's image and his own. And a few one-way tickets to Siberia for War Academy Experts might help.
Apart from that, I totally agree with Paul Craig Roberts. A short extract :
"The Kremlin’s attempt to fight a war with minimal resources and no
commitment to disrupt the government and functioning of Western Ukraine
and the weapons flowing in from the US and NATO now brings the
humiliation of having Ukrainian troops break through Russia’s thinly
defended line in the Kharkov region of Eastern Ukraine."
Out of simple Christian charity I won't speak of the unhappy Ukrainians who are being shamefully abandoned by the thousands and left to the vengeance of Ukronazis...
And in the next few weeks some modesty about the immense professional training of Russian generals would be welcome.
Having said that, I still firmly believe and hope that Russia will emerge as the victor of this war, for which the United States and NATO are responsible.
Posted by: Thierry | Sep 12 2022 9:56 utc | 40
dfg | Sep 12 2022 8:36 utc | 17
Re “t”…”………some of our regular patrons have been reading and replying.
I did not want a silence or non reply to imply any endorsement or consent or tacit agreement with a call to violence on an individual.
I disregard the used sock salesman, but I refuse to allow to stand any comment that he should be harmed.
I simply ignore the Lira by name and occupation … And accept others will decide for themselves whether to consume his content or not.
I endorse the proposal that “t” be banned.
His comments are not free speech and diversity of opinion.
His comments are anathema- or should be - to all other posters here.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Sep 12 2022 9:57 utc | 41
If Russia destroyed all electricity generation in Ukraine, the EU would collapse due the the influx of about 10 to 20 million Ukrainian refugees, which would drastically impact their energy system.
Posted by: Karl Friedrich | Sep 12 2022 10:05 utc | 42
I don't think Russia has taken its gloves off yet, but it does seem to be loosening the tapes.
They are already damned by the West, actually doing what they have always been accused of seems a win.
The downsides are the possible reaction of the non-western world (but I think any sane spectator can understand the extreme provocation) and the use by the US as an excuse to intervene directly (in which case it is curtains for us all).
Posted by: Pancho Plail | Sep 12 2022 10:08 utc | 43
Hereward | Sep 12 2022 9:06 utc | 28
“……Is the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant linked to the Russian or EU grid?
From my understanding it was connected to the EU network.
Then in March the Russians disconnected two components. Then disconnected it from EU and were reconnecting it to the old Ukrainian/ Russian network.
As the mortar and drone attacks increased, they started disconnecting and shutting down.
Now. It’s completely shut down. So it’s not delivering electricity anywhere. Presumably because the Russians took it offline slowly, it can be reactivated, and will supply the new Donbas and Crimea…
Posted by: Melaleuca | Sep 12 2022 10:09 utc | 44
The following is from a fellow poster on another forum I am on, he is a Pole. It was an observation he made on the Russian pull-out, they had been treating the north differently from the start, just no-one had put two and two together.The reason being that Kharkov oblast, whilst mainly Russian speaking no longer has Russian in its soul like the east and south he mentions.
There are tons of infrastructural & social projects going on in the south, ie. Cherson, Mariopol, Melitopol etc - there is nothing like that in the north, that is Charkov, Izum etc.
When the road signs are replaced with the Russian ones in Chersonskaya oblast, nothing like that happened in the Izum.
When the city limits sculptures were painted tricolor all the south, the same in Izum, Kupyansk etc are just as they were.
When there are big billboards about "we are one nation" all over the south - nothing like that in the north.
Giant infrastructural projects are running in the whole southern regions, new hospitals, and whole city quarters are being built brand new - nothing like that in the north.
So I draw a conclusion, that possible those areas was not going to be incorporated into Russia anyway.
A difference in approach is obvious.
And let's keep in mind, that even people who pretend to have some accurate reports from the civilian population living there, can't really check those data. They can be easily fooled by the targeted disinformation campaign. This is why I take people like Podolyaka with a huge grain of salt. He is not a military man, he is not political ... what he is, is some jobless blogger living on the donations of his patronite-like sponsor team, and he must feed them with constant content flow.
Most of the TG or Twiter accounts are acting like a bullshit cannons, they share the very same content. If one subscribes to several sources, it takes a moment to realize that the content is just the same, everywhere.
It was Sharyi who compromised himself in full last week, making himself an absolute fool in front of his audience. But people won't remember that in a week, as most of the population has the ability to focus smaller than a golden fish.
Posted by: JohninMK | Sep 12 2022 10:11 utc | 45
"All's fair in love and war" springs to mind! Take the gloves off Vladimir!
Posted by: Dave Pollard | Sep 12 2022 10:15 utc | 46
Ukraine will always be full of shit . Not one International agency did squat when the Kiev terrorists took out our electric grid in Crimea 4+ years back, much less when they also, cut off our water supplies.
Poroshenko : " Let the Donbass people live in their basements and let their children go to school in the cellars, while our children go to normal schools." And this weasel is still walking around freely? After the майдан I was traveling SW of kiev and came across a wanted poster for the X Prez. Yanukovitch. Russia needs to do the Same for all those War Criminals, Oligarchs and Mafia Rats that worked outta Kiev for the past 10 years. They are as bad as the Nazis and need a price on their heads! Well, at least some Wanted Posters. lol
Posted by: GMC | Sep 12 2022 10:15 utc | 47
Summary of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the progress of a special military operation on the territory of Ukraine (12.09.2022)
The Russian Aerospace Forces, rocket troops and artillery continue to deliver precision strikes on the units and reserves of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
in the Kharkiv region.
💥 In the areas of the settlements of Kupyansk and Izyum, the manpower and military equipment of the nationalist formation "Kraken", the 113th Territorial Defense Brigade and the 93rd mechanized brigade were hit. The enemy's losses amounted to 250 soldiers and more than 20 pieces of military equipment.
Units of the 63rd mechanized and 46th airmobile brigades were hit by high-precision missile strikes of the Russian Aerospace Forces in the Mykolaiv-Krivoy Rog direction in the areas of the settlements of Kostroma and Belogorka, Kherson region.
💥 In the area of the Voznesensk settlement of the Mykolaiv region, an ammunition depot was destroyed, where 45 thousand tons of APU ammunition were stored.
In total, over the past day in this operational area during the fighting, the Kiev regime has lost over three hundred killed and up to a thousand wounded Ukrainian servicemen.
💥 In the area of the settlement of Rogi, Cherkasy region, a high-precision strike was carried out by the Russian Aerospace Forces at the temporary deployment point of a unit of the motorized infantry brigade of the operational reserve of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. More than 30 nationalists and more than 10 units of special military equipment and vehicles were destroyed.
Strikes by operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery against military facilities on the territory of Ukraine continue.
During the day, four AFU control points were hit in the areas of the settlements of Slavyansk, Artemovsk and Konstantinovka of the Donetsk People's Republic, Olgovskoye of the Zaporozhye region, as well as 36 artillery units, manpower and Ukrainian military equipment in 125 districts.
As a result of the strikes, three warehouses of rocket and artillery weapons and ammunition were destroyed in the areas of the settlements of Novomikhailovka of the Donetsk People's Republic, Kalinovskoye of the Dnipropetrovsk region and Poltava of the Zaporozhye region.
In addition, an electronic warfare station was destroyed near the settlement of Zaliznichnoye in the Zaporozhye region, and workshops for the repair and restoration of multiple rocket launchers were destroyed in Kramatorsk of the Donetsk People's Republic.
💥 By means of air defense, five unmanned aerial vehicles were shot down during the day in the areas of the settlements of Nikolaevka of the Luhansk People's Republic, Slavnoye of the Donetsk People's Republic, Petrovka of the Zaporozhye region, Bezvodnoye and Vishnevoye of the Kherson region.
Also, eight HIMARS and Alder multiple rocket launchers were destroyed in the air in the areas of the Kakhovskaya HPP, the settlements of Lyubimovka, Berislav and Tavriyskoye in the Kherson region.
In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 293 aircraft, 153 helicopters, 1,938 unmanned aerial vehicles, 374 anti-aircraft missile systems, 4,891 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 831 multiple rocket launchers, 3,379 field artillery and mortar guns, as well as 5,499 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed.
Posted by: Summary of the RMoD | Sep 12 2022 10:16 utc | 48
So Putin spoke directly with Macron.
Macron is an absolute zero. All the intelligence of the MoA troll army. If Macron is even briefed he certainly gave Putin information. Otherwise Putin suffers a few minutes of idiocy for appearances sake.
Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 12 2022 10:19 utc | 49
Gee, Sounds like there is a war going on. The basic bid was made by thr Russisns/Soviets in the 1930s when they starved several million Ukrainian "Kulaks" to death (Holodomor).Posted by: Mike-SMO | Sep 12 2022 9:54 utc | 48
This is one of the most ridiculous Ukrainian propaganda tropes.
The famine was concentrated in the East of Ukraine (where mostly Russians lived) and in the Kuban region of Russia. What is the cradle of Ukrainian nationalism now wasn't even part of the USSR then, it was Polish, and Zhytomyr and Vinnytsia weren't hit that hard.
More importantly, there were recurrent famines in Galicia when it was part of Austro-Hungary. Every few years. Which was kept semi-, if not outright deliberately poor and undeveloped by the Austrians.
The potato famine affected Galicia hard too -- more than 200,000 dead -- and that was only one in a long series:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famines_in_Austrian_Galicia
And while those were happening, food was often exported out of the region. This went on for decades:
The direct reasons for famines are often given as bad weather and blights (in particular potato blight); however there are also major social factors which caused famines in Galicia to be more likely, and to have more serious consequences than in many other parts of Europe.[2][11]In the 19th century, most of Galicia was part of the Austrian Empire (later Austria-Hungary), which acquired it through the partitions of Poland, and was its poorest province.[12] Neither the mostly Polish large landowners, nor the Austrian imperial government, showed much interest in reform, such as industrialization, which would upset the system in which Galicia was a provider of agricultural products for the rest of the Empire, and a market for inferior industrial goods, a situation profitable for both the governments and the landowners.[13][14][15] The Austrian government treated Galicia as a colony that could be treated to another country, and overtaxed it rather than invested in it.[11][13][16]
Agricultural productivity of Galician peasants was one of the lowest in Europe, due to the use of primitive agricultural techniques, many little different from those used in the Middle Ages.[15][17][18] The situation was compounded by the lack of good land and growing population, resulting in the steadily diminishing size of an individual peasant's plot.[2] Over 70% of Galicia population lived off the land.[14] In the second half of the 19th century, with only a marginal increase of arable land (about 7%), the population of peasants doubled.[19] In 1899, 80% of the plots had less than 5 acres, and many were not able to grow enough food on their plots to support their families.[2] Overpopulation in Galicia has been so severe that it has been described as the most overpopulated place in Europe, and compared to India and China.[11]
As a result, Galician peasants have been too malnourished to work properly, and had little immunity to diseases such as cholera, typhus, smallpox and syphilis.[2] Stauter-Halsted describes a vicious cycle in which Galician peasants worked "lethargically because [they were] inadequately nourished and [not living] better because [they] work too little."[2] Frank quotes Szepanowski: "every resident of Galicia does one-quarter of a man's work and eats one-half of a man's food."[19] Norman Davies concurs, noting that the situation in Galicia was likely more desperate than in Ireland, and that Galicia was likely "the poorest province in Europe".[11] The near constant famines in Galicia, resulting in 50,000 deaths a year, have been described as endemic.[11][15] Responding to the poverty and lack of reform, many peasants chose to emigrate, to other parts of Austria, Europe, and the United States.[20]
Have you ever seen a Ukrainian nationalist moan about the Austrian genocide against Ukrainians? I certainly haven't.
Could it be that part of the reason for is it there simply was no such thing as "Ukrainians" and "Ukraine" at the time? Thus there was no starvation of "Ukrainians" in collective memory.
Or it is plain old hypocrisy?
P.S. the Holomodor was the last famine in the USSR ever aside from the 1946 one when there were objective reasons for it in the bad weather and the destruction from the war. Collectivization actually solved the problem of recurrent famines (which had been a recurrent thing in that region since time immemorial), and if it hadn't been for the stubborn resistance against it due to the mass ignorance at the time, there may not even have been a post-collectivization famine.
Posted by: Tbx | Sep 12 2022 10:23 utc | 50
Strelkov applauding the infrastructure attacks last night, however he correctly states that the attacks cannot stop there and Kiev itself must be extinguished.
You cannot reason with the insane Kiev regime. Do not attempt to do so.
Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 12 2022 10:25 utc | 51
The Kremlin said there were no prerequisites for communication between Putin and Zelenskyy.
He is reacting to Erdogan's statements yesterday that he wants to organize negotiations between Putin and Zelenskyy.
.
But.... Erdokan has again threatened Europe with regard to Greece not to stop any more refugees.
Posted by: Mo3 | Sep 12 2022 10:32 utc | 52
@ Melaleuca | Sep 12 2022 9:57 utc | 50
I understand your feeling about wanting to reply to the offensive posts.
@ oldhippie | Sep 12 2022 10:19 utc | 59
Mentioning Micron reminds me of more questions for NATOstani’s: Why do NATOstani’s abide by “elected” rulers who take orders from the WEF against their own citizens’ welfare? Why do NATOstanni’s abide by arrests of Jan 6th protesters and Assange while Hunter Biden, the Biden gang, the Clinton gang, the Trump gang, etc all roam free to rob the country blind and order destruction to half the globe? When will NATOstani’s admit which assholes are causing the most problems?
Posted by: dfg | Sep 12 2022 10:33 utc | 53
Posted by: Melaleuca | Sep 12 2022 9:57 utc | 50
Again with the self-importance. Didn't you recently affect to admit that no one needs to pay any attention to what you think? "Scroll on by." I'd rather see you banned, frankly. At least the other bloke can read.
Posted by: Herr Ringbone | Sep 12 2022 10:38 utc | 54
Stonebird | Sep 12 2022 9:24 utc | 36
"Putin does not want to be known as the person that started WWIII and the destruction of the world by Nuclear weapons."
I see that statement as having succumbed to a propaganda meme. I believe Russian President Putin has a strong moral underpinning and has no desire to use the power and ability of his Country to destroy the world and will endeavor in all his decisions to keep that "real". I think it is wrong to couch that conviction as being rooted in a personal desire to not sully his reputation as I feel that statement above does.
I mean this as a general comment on how we are drawn into insidious characterizations and not a criticism of Stonebird.
Posted by: DoesItReallyMatter | Sep 12 2022 10:55 utc | 55
Celebrity piano player Zelensky virtually rang the bell to open the NY Stock Exchange on Tues., Sept. 6. Later this month as tens of millions of Americans rot in poverty, gadfly Zelensky will address a gathering of murderous defense contractors. US taxpayers are slaves of a military dictatorship. The entire US political class is thrilled with that. I'm sick to death of this. The US must be broken up.
Posted by: susan mullen | Sep 12 2022 10:56 utc | 56
Vladimir Putin, over many, many years – has demonstrated that he as an enormous ability to not react emotionally and/or overreact and just wait… Wait. ‘Patience’.
An excellent analysis, thank you!
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 12 2022 10:58 utc | 57
DoesItReallyMatter | Sep 12 2022 10:55 utc | 65
I suspect that is how Stonebird also sees just different wording.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 12 2022 11:09 utc | 58
I do not understand why are Russians still trying to impress Westerners? West is trying to defeat and dismember Russia. And they don't care about the fact that Russia could have destroyed Ukrainian infrastructure a long time ago and didn't do that out of good will. They simply do not care. Russia can do whatever, it will always be guilty in Western eyes. As soon as Russia gets over it, the better.
Posted by: Under US bombs | Sep 12 2022 11:10 utc | 59
This war is headed for negotiations very soon, because for the first time both sides have reasons to want to end it. According to reports, the purpose of Blinken’s latest trip to Kiev was to deliver the message to Zelensky that it’s time to negotiate. Also, Nuland made a comment to the effect that all wars end in negotiation. Pretty clearly, the West is sending signals it wants to negotiate. Why? Because Europe is falling apart economically and could collapse, and the proles are rising up against the war, as shown by the Prague protest. Key industrial sectors are shutting down because of the gas crisis, and it’s only going to get worse. Plus Ukraine’s economy has collapsed and they are living off of handouts.
Are the Russians willing to negotiate? They’ve always stated their willingness to negotiate. And right now, they’re in a pretty good bargaining position re Europe because of the energy crisis there. They have bargaining chips. Also, it’s probably dawning on Russia that they have reached the limits of what they can accomplish militarily in Ukraine.
Zelensky is obviously against negotiations. But Blinken gave him the word, and he’ll do what his masters tell him. Blinken probably gave him 6 weeks, before bad weather sets in, to take as much territory as he can. It looks like Ukraine has two objectives – (1) to break the Allies’ grip on the Luhansk Oblast, which the Allies controlled completely before the offensive, and (2) to retake Mariupol and the area leading to it, to cut Russia’s position on the south coast in half. Looks like the next few weeks will be critical.
Posted by: Kellen Cramer | Sep 12 2022 11:15 utc | 60
Currently, thé russians SMO is on trouble. It look liké a Trap that works with thé false attack on Kherson. Thé russians are previsibles. Perhaps, there is a counter Trap because thé US tactics are previsible too. But it is not sûre because it seems liké thé CIA watch the russians cards.
Posted by: Koui | Sep 12 2022 11:20 utc | 62
Negotiations, if that's true, are an encouraging sign.
However the Russian side absolutely needs referendums in pro-Russian areas, including Odessa. Any lesser option would be leaving Russian speakers to the mercies of the various Ukie death-squads that are roaming around.
I must say, as a rare poster, that the influx of trolls and the somewhat bad-tempered responses to them are dragging this excellent site down. It used to be that nearly all disagreements were conducted in a polite manner and I hope we can regain this, in spite of attempts at provocation.
Posted by: JulianJ | Sep 12 2022 11:27 utc | 63
Russians delivered yet another strike to Kharkiv an hour ago. Once again, a critical infrastructure, no water, no electricity.
https://t.me/voenacher/28795?single
Posted by: Z_- | Sep 12 2022 11:31 utc | 64
Posted by: timbers | Sep 12 2022 8:27 utc | 12
Peter you are incorrect. I suggest you go back and read Putin's stated goals. He says nothing about you falsely identify in your quote.
Peter is correct.
Ask yourself why this conflict started? Why did all of Europe refuse to acknowledge the RF concern over NATO's westward expansion? Why did the US sponsor the coup in Ukraine, the "fuck the EU" coup. Why did the US, UK, Canada and France deliver NATO standard military training to 404 starting in 2015? Why did Germany and France, fail to ensure the implementation of the Minsk Accords? Why did the people of Europe tolerate the genocidal conduct of the Z regime? Why has the US openly declared the need to weaken Russia preparatory to an attack on China? Why has the US openly declared its intent to seek a war with China to prevent Chinese economic growth which (according to US war mongers) threatens US global dominance?
Why is the West actively supporting the move toward a global conflict which may easily turn into nuclear Armageddon? Why are the peoples of the West celebrating this outcome? Why does the West have a death wish?
Answer all these questions and you will understand why Peter is correct.
Posted by: Sushi | Sep 12 2022 11:33 utc | 65
Posted by: Tbx | Sep 12 2022 10:23 utc | 50
Thank you for another insight on region history.
Posted by: Lucci | Sep 12 2022 11:35 utc | 66
I see a lot of experienced armchair generals here. Pathetic. Putin doesn't want to kill Russians or make their lives miserable, which is completely incomprehensible to many. Everything is going according to plan, and the Ukrainian army is gradually being destroyed.
Posted by: henry | Sep 12 2022 11:41 utc | 67
in the alt universe... this happens
ned price state department condems russia taking out power and clean water from ukrainian citizens.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1568970965475811334
Posted by: hankster | Sep 12 2022 11:41 utc | 68
Posted by: Hereward | Sep 12 2022 9:06 utc
"Is the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant linked to the Russian or EU grid?"
Probably not.
But you can be shure as hell that after 6+ months of Russian presence at Zaporozhie NPP it's EXTERNAL EMERGENCY SUPPLY LINES are already (probably multiply) connected to the Russian power grid.
And most probably by UNDERGROUNG cables, digged in in the meantime, now totaly INVULNERABLE to Nazi shelling!
Emergency POWER for cooling down of Zaporozhie NPP's reactors is SAFE and SECURE, no matter what NATO fucktards fart about.
BTW, NATO fucktards already knew it, and that was the REAL reason for IAEA to come there.
Now they now that their "disaster" game is OVER and LOST!!
Posted by: LongCovid | Sep 12 2022 11:41 utc | 69
Kellen Cramer | Sep 12 2022 11:15 utc | 60 "Also, it’s probably dawning on Russia that they have reached the limits of what they can accomplish militarily in Ukraine."
As Putin said 'you ain't seen nothing yet'. Well we just got a tiny glimpse in the last hours. I doubt the west is ready to negotiate on Russia's terms yet.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 12 2022 11:44 utc | 71
JulianJ | Sep 12 2022 11:27 utc | 63
"Negotiations, if that's true, are an encouraging sign."
Why would that be encouraging, given the fact that real negotiations are impossible since one side is 100% guaranteed to be insincere, lying with every word and fully intending to break any agreement the second they feel ready to do so, as they've already done over and over.
"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me", and yet there's so many who are so consciously willing and eager to be fooled a third time with Minsk III, and I suppose onward ad infinitum. And this is true even as those same people have acknowledged for years that the empire is "non-agreement capable".
Just because one would like to end a war with a negotiated peace doesn't mean such a thing is possible, if one side is determined to attain total victory and views any "negotiation" as a weapon in itself.
Anything else is magical thinking.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Sep 12 2022 11:46 utc | 72
I don't think the railway grid point is true. If power breaks down, you take a Diesel engine and haul the train on. ...
Posted by: Zojek | Sep 12 2022 9:29 utc | 31
I don’t know if it’s true in this particular case but it would almost certainly be an effective military strategy. Knocking out locomotive power lines would freeze all electrified trains for long enough that they could be engaged as stationary targets with cruise / ballistic missiles. RF would need to know exactly where the trains were stuck but it has satellites and spies for that. I guess we’ll find out if a bunch of trains were hit during the blackouts.
Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 12 2022 11:47 utc | 73
"I would suggest it is YOUR comment that is self defeating and comments like yours. Russia is not serious. If she is not serious, she should end the SMO and go home.
Posted by: timbers | Sep 12 2022 8:24 utc | 10"
This is rubbish. It is precisely the fact that Russia is approaching this SMO with concern for the citizens and infrastructure that allows people such as me to leave the country to return to work and support my family, knowing that my family is quite safe. I am not saying there aren't the possibilities of casualties but they are limited and certainly not intentional. The end game will be the liberation of Russian speaking people in eastern Ukraine, the southern coast and probably all the way to Transnistria and Hungary. That would also allow for the gas to be be transported directly to "friendly" countries.
Posted by: Bluedog57 | Sep 12 2022 11:48 utc | 74
I seem to recall one report about the Russian withdrawal was that civilians were evacuated at the same time. Can anyone corroborate that?
Posted by: Pancho Plail | Sep 12 2022 11:48 utc | 75
why should Zelensky care if Ukro-Nazis suffer? It actually makes perfect sense.
Posted by: scottindallas | Sep 12 2022 11:53 utc | 76
I make a guess: Russia won't make any decisive changes in strategy (like big mobilization) before the meeting between Putin and Xi at the SCO.
Posted by: Moses | Sep 12 2022 12:00 utc | 77
DoesItReallyMatter | Sep 12 2022 10:55 utc | 55
Yes, of course Putin has strong moral principles. That is what makes him what he is, and such strong leader.
But imagine the position he is in, as it is he who will have to take the really hard decisions. He has the fortitude to take those which will accord with his moral principles - NOT because of his personal ones. If it means the existential threat of the US destruction of the people of Russia may clearly happen, - lord have mercy on our souls.
He, and many of us, understand what is at stake, but many of us do not fully know what ones own demise means and are capable of taking the choices which lead to personal loss, (if others gain).
It is clear that the line quoted taken in isolation could be construed as "personal", but it should have been considered in conjunction with the one following it. ie. Who pushes the button first? ...and he does not want to be that person. BUT, if he has to to save Russia, he will. - He is that strong.
***
There are occasionally those who will call in an airstrike on themselves, which is their last living act, but I can only think of two.
Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 12 2022 12:00 utc | 78
In an RT coverage today, the Russian Ambassador to Berlin stated that the Green-Machine German government had "crossed the Rubicon". Why? The Scholz regime has recently been providing the Ukies with heavy weaponry, some of which has been used to shell civilian targets in Donetsk and other Donbass cities, as well as some assaults on RF cities and towns such as Belgorod.
Upshot of this is that any hopes that Russia will once again provide natural gas for Germany is now kaput. Likely there is no chance that relations will improve until the current hybrid regime in Deutschland is removed. That could occur this winter, as Germans may be freezing in the dark by February. One should keep an eye on events in Eastern Germany where the Volk there are now recalling their DDR days with a certain nostalgia. Expect larger and greater popular demonstrations through much of that country as this war rages on.
Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 12 2022 12:22 utc | 79
It would seem the Ukraine offensives in Kherson and Kharkiv were executed in part to take some of the pressure off of Donbas. Donbas is the primary focus of the SMO at this point having secured the Crimea land bridge and Mariupol and where the SMO is making slow, incremental gains.
The bulk of the infantry fighting in the Donbas and casualties taken is by the militias with Russian forces providing air, artillery, armoured and logistical support.
One of the more difficult military maneuvers is that of a strategic retreat. For a variety of reasons the Russians saw Kharkov (unlike Kherson) as a opportunity to consolidate and divert more forces to the Donbas. Hence the carefully planned strategic defeat and attendant misinformation campaign in the course of which inflicting heavy casualties while taking minimal loses.
Posted by: Oswald | Sep 12 2022 12:22 utc | 80
Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 12 2022 9:24 utc | 30
Interesting points.
But while invasion of Russia to circle around behind the LDPR as in the alleged original plan would certainly trigger (formal) war with the RF, I don't see that it would "automatically" do so with NATO:
There would be a decision-point there for NATO.
Posted by: John Kennard | Sep 12 2022 12:27 utc | 82
When Russia dictates surrender terms to a new government in Kiev one of the stipulations should be a denunciation of Stalin's adding Galicia to Ukraine SSR. The accommodation would be a full divorce of those Banderistas and westernized deracinated Slavs who have been long under the influence of Roman Catholicism and all that this negation of the Spirit implies.
Abandoning Galicia to its fate would cut off the nationalist extremist strain/stain at its roots. Remaining sentiments of "Ukraine Uber Alles" will then wither at the roots and the few Oblasts which are fully Ukrainian will gradually come to their senses in the realization that the financier controlled West are not their friends.
Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 12 2022 12:29 utc | 83
Terrible reprisals against local pro-Russian Ukraine citizens in towns retaken by Ukrainian forces. People shot in spot, arrested & taken away, looting.
At least that is alleged testimony of sister of woman who stayed behind while other fled with Russian army and phoned her later.
Posted by: PJB | Sep 12 2022 12:29 utc | 84
Posted by: Tbx | Sep 12 2022 10:23 utc | 50
this is useful information about the background of the region.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 12 2022 12:31 utc | 85
Very good and incisive posting.
One suggestion from an old journalist/editor/etc. Please train yourself to use paragraphs. Academic styled essays are mostly read by fellow academics. Paragraphs are our friends. They make for smoother passages in the text.
Keep on keeping on. You are on a good track.
Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 12 2022 12:34 utc | 86
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 12 2022 11:44
"… I doubt the west is ready to negotiate on Russia's terms yet."
Russia clearly stated it's negotiating terms in it's last offer (to NATO) from december 2021, before the SMO.
These terms are valid now as well. So no YET.
Posted by: LongCovid | Sep 12 2022 12:38 utc | 87
dog @ 53
Yes, all current Western leaders are rather sad and pathetic. Visible staffers and scene-fillers standing behind them equally helpless.
The mayor of my city (Chicago) is a walking exemplar of fetal alcohol syndrome. Every visible symptom plainly on display. No prior political experience. We were told she was a high powered corporate attorney, lawyers in this town never heard of her. But she is black female and homosexual so only racist misogynist homophobes would ever say a word against her. So a major city is led by a 140cm freak with eyes on the side of her head and absolute zero empathy or conscience.
I do wonder what the endgame is.
Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 12 2022 12:43 utc | 88
@1 andrsib I also watched that video, and while a lot of it made sense I suspect its central premise is wrong i.e. Dima believes that the Ukrainians are moving troops by train from the Kharkov region to the front lines opposite Mariupol (probably true) and the Russians - seeing that happening - are also doing the same (probably not true).
But since he believes both to be true he concludes that because the Ukrainians have the interior lines of communication then the Russians had to do something to slow down them down. Hence the strikes on the electricity grid.
I think that goes too far, it means that the Russians are moving forces around like some gigantic game of whack-a-mole.
I don't think so because the Russians have the 3rd Army Corp. And their assembly point was in Rostov-on-Don.
Freshly arrived. At full strength. Ready to go.
I think the Ukrainians are going to launch the "Mariupol Offensive" and that is going to run smack into that 3rd Army Corp, at which point the Ukrainians are going to discover to their horror that the Russians always knew this was coming and have been preparing things for months.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 12 2022 12:44 utc | 89
These terms are valid now as well
Posted by: LongCovid 87
Absolutely not. And every day of the military activities moves the new negotiation terms more and more away from the old ones.
Posted by: Poslan | Sep 12 2022 12:47 utc | 90
Posted by: LongCovid | Sep 12 2022 12:38 utc | 87
as long as NATO countries are safe, they don't care if Ukraine is destroyed imo. this is the advantage of a proxy war. I don't think NATO would hesitate to sacrifice Poland, either. somebody above remarked about divisions developing within NATO itself, and this seems plausible, as sanctions destroy European economies. NATO doesn't have an endless series of catspaws to use.
time is on the side of Russia and China, if we can avoid World War 3.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 12 2022 12:47 utc | 91
The possibility of the West getting more deeply involved is very slim. Why? Both in Europe and the U$$A, the populace is becoming tired of all the money and energy going into this war.
Midterms loom in the ruptured republic in less than two months time. Only a false-flag attack could conceivably save Democrat domination of Congre$$.
Secondly, the European "powers" constitute a paper tiger, an essentially toothless beastie.
The WarDefense Industry and big-oil, both of which are the only serious money-makers outside of social media/CIA interplay. Corruption reigns throughout the entire system, including the courts, particularly the Federal ones.
Thus, except for its submarines, the U$$A is so deeply mired in the corruption of its military and logistically so limited that a serious incursion into the Ukraine cockpit would be a nightmare scenario, easily disrupted by Russian submarines and hypersonic kinetic missiles.
Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 12 2022 12:47 utc | 92
Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 12 2022 12:43 utc | 88
Its a cultural fetish in the postmodern west to try and find strength in marginalised or as CRT proponents call them oppressed strata of society. This however turns out well only for such individuals and not classes as that requires actual change of the elites. Ergo individuals that should represent marginalised groups in positions of
power trying to improve the world for some group based on own experiences i.e. distasters on legs.
Posted by: alek_a | Sep 12 2022 12:49 utc | 93
It is troubling that some commenters actually through their comments advocate a bigger war even thermal nuclear war.
JulianJ | Sep 12 2022 11:27 utc | 63
About your "Negotiations, if that's true, are an encouraging sign." This is the US-EU equivalent of lifting up a solitary finger. These are only used as a decoy, to gain time and to take the opposing side as idiots.
No negotiation will get to the end or even get started at the moment UNLESS there is defeat on the horizon.
If the USucks think they are "winning" all talk about negotiations are bluff.
***
Part of the recent trolling has been to set one long time poster against another. Or ganging up to attack one poster - Not (only) attacking b's site.
There have been numerous posts with sockpupteering and Identity "theft". Plus the usual, "I am leaving- goodby, because of....xyz", and rude attacks designed to elict an angry reply. The anti-S or pro S blind alleys.
Then there are the "teams", or those that talk to themselves by changing masks. The long "concerned" post", which are supposed to allow them to be included on "your" side. Slipping in the "official"-thought at the end. There have also been a couple demanding that b leaves another on site, as "I like talking/studying them".
etc.
**
No easy answer, except that politeness doesn't cost anything, even in "real" life. Being polite to the person behind the counter in supermarkets, doesn't cost any more, but it is rare that people speak to them or acknowledge them as humans.
From the time zones used, I reckon much of the trolling comes from the UK.
***
Against that, it sometimes is a pleasure to be rude, and most comedy is based on being rude about something or someone. The trick is not to deliberately offend for the sake of offense. (Except if you are a dick player, who offends everyone and is applauded if he treats his audience as ....)
These days being nicely rude nicely has become almost impossible.
****
Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 12 2022 12:49 utc | 95
@84 PJB If true (and we'll need more evidence than a phone call) then such behavior must cast doubt on the accusation that it was the departing Russian troops who shot all those civilians in Bucha, and not the Ukrainian troops exacting revenge after they re-entered the village.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 12 2022 12:50 utc | 96
[email protected]:
Sorry to break the bad news, buried lines are not immune to shelling.
Posted by: morongobill | Sep 12 2022 12:55 utc | 97
So Diana has another book out---this time on the mess in German governance. Some years ago I had the pleasure of meeting that amazing Minnesotan nonagenarian at the home of a mutual friend (her former lover from the mid-60's. Several years later I had the delight of meeting her effervescent granddaughter at the same venue.
For years now, Ms. Johnstone, a longtime resident of Paris, has been the world's most steadfast peace advocate. She was quite instrumental in the anti-war movement during the U$$A invasion of Vietnam. At one time she had become a Green, but was rather quickly disabused of that movement, particularly the German variety, which seems to include a lot of ex-Maoists and suchlike intellectual trash.
Diana Johnstone was the outstanding defender of Yugoslavia and then of Serbia during and after the primarily German Catholic behind the scenes maneuvering of NATO against that once united country and latterly on behalf of the secessionists in Slovenia and most particularly the Neo-Ustashi fascists in Croatia. The cynical use of Islamist terrorists on the part of the U$$A in Bosnia was also denounced by Johnstone.
My respect for that formidable and free-spirited woman knows no bounds.
Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 12 2022 12:58 utc | 98
More armchair speculation:
The Russian attacks northwest of Kharkov and east of the ZNPP could be understood as probing attacks to gauge Ukrainian defenses in those areas. Those places are well-suited for a two-pronged pincer attack to encircle the Ukrainian force that just pushed to the Oskol river, along with surrounding Kharkov.
Posted by: Cynica | Sep 12 2022 13:01 utc | 99
not anymore, Ursula, not any more
and probably never again...
Weaker than Ever together, wanker!
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1542459370633584640
Ursula von der Leyen @vonderleyen
Very glad to announce that as of today, Ukraine can export electricity to the EU market.
It will provide an additional source of electricity for the EU.
And much-needed revenues to Ukraine.
So we both benefit. #StrongerTogether
5:45 AM · Jun 30, 2022
Posted by: michaelj72 | Sep 12 2022 13:02 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Per Military Summary Channel, it was not a "retaliation". Ukrainians were transferring troops and heavy armor from Kharkov to Donbass using railroads. _Electrically powered_ railroads. So, the Russians knocked out the electrical grid for a few hours and then had a field day with destroying concentrations of UAF troops at the railroad stations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYbtKbJ37-M
Posted by: andrsib | Sep 12 2022 7:56 utc | 1