Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 19, 2022

Putin's Press Conference On Ukraine, Terrorism, Fertilizer, Europe's Energy Crisis

Last week the Head of States Council of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization met in Samarkand. The meeting was not very remarkable. It was business as usual. Iran will soon join the organization and several other states want association agreements with it.

An important side event was a non-scripted press conference President Vladimir Putin of the Russian Federation held. There is a video with English subtitles that covers it and the Kremlin provides as usual an English language transcript. Putin made some important points that were not reflected in 'western' news coverage as they contradicted the propaganda positions the 'western' media have taken. Below I excerpted parts and added a few comments.

On the SCO:

Vladimir Putin: The most important thing always and everywhere is economic development. And the SCO, cooperation with the SCO countries, creates conditions for the development of the Russian economy, and thus for the social sphere and for resolving the tasks related to improving the living standards of our citizens.

The Shanghai Cooperation Organisation includes countries whose population, as has been said many times, comprises almost or even slightly more than half of humanity. It is 25 percent of world GDP. And, most importantly, the national economies in the region, those of the SCO member states, are developing much faster than others in the world.

The SCO markets are were global economic growth is happening. But the 'west' is excluding itself from those regions. 'Western' policies are hostile towards many of the big SCO members. Those policies build up barriers that hinder 'western' industries to profit from that growth. These are self-defeating measures.

There is a question about military strikes within Russia. Putin didn't seem bothered too much about those.

There is nothing new about this. Frankly, I find it even a bit strange to hear your question because Western countries have cultivated the idea of the collapse of the Soviet Union and historical Russia and Russia as such, its nucleus.

I have already cited these statements and studies by some figures in Great Britain during World War I and after it. I cited excerpts from Mr Brzezinski’s writings in which he divided the entire territory of our country into specific parts. True, later he changed his position a bit in the belief that it was better to keep Russia in opposition to China and use it as a tool to combat China. It will never happen.
But they have always been seeking the dissolution of our country – this is very true. It is unfortunate that at some point they decided to use Ukraine for these purposes. [...] This is what some US-led Western countries have always been seeking – to create an anti-Russia enclave and rock the boat, threaten Russia from this direction. In essence, our main goal is to prevent such developments.
In the course of this, we are seeing attempts to perpetrate terrorist attacks and damage our civilian infrastructure.

Indeed, we were quite restrained in our response, but that will not last forever. Recently, Russian Armed Forces delivered a couple of sensitive blows to that area. Let’s call them warning shots. If the situation continues like that, our response will be more impactful.

On Saturday the Russian military destroyed electricity distribution systems at a power plant in Slaviansk. Dima of the Military Summary channel showed two open source pictures provided by NASA that demonstrate problems with the Ukrainian electricity network. Especially in the east the lights are going out.

September 17 2021

Source: NASA - bigger
September 17 2022

Source: NASA - bigger

The attack on Slaviansk followed after several Ukrainian attacks on electricity infrastructure in Russia and in areas under Russian control.

Putin mentions such attacks and calls them terrorism:

Terrorist attacks are a serious matter. In fact, it is about using terrorist methods. We see this in the killing of officials in the liberated territories, we even see attempts at perpetrating terrorist attacks in the Russian Federation, including – I am not sure if this was made public – attempts to carry out terrorist attacks near our nuclear facilities, nuclear power plants in the Russian Federation. I am not even talking about the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant.

We are monitoring the situation and will do our best to prevent a negative scenario from unfolding. We will respond if they fail to realise that these approaches are unacceptable. They are, in fact, no different than terrorist attacks.

In early August some Ukrainian commandos had destroyed high power lines from the Kursk Nuclear Power Plant.

In the Kursk region of Russia, Ukrainian saboteurs blew up power transmission lines that feed the Kursk nuclear power plant, the press service of the Federal Security Bureau of Russia said.

According to the agency, on August 4, 9 and 12, six explosions took place in the Kurchatov district of the Kursk region. The explosions were conducted targeting high-voltage power lines.
A criminal case was filed into the incident under Part 2 of Article 205 (Terrorist Attack) of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. Security forces are looking for saboteurs. The National Guard have strengthened the security of nuclear facilities.

Back to Putin's press conference.

He gets asked about some negotiation paper Ukraine had put out. He has not seen it but he explains what happened with negotiations in late March/early April:

Frankly, I am not familiar with what they have come up with this time. We, in fact, started with this when we were negotiating with the incumbent Kiev authorities and, in fact, completed this negotiating process in Istanbul with the well-known Istanbul agreement, after which we withdrew our troops from Kiev in order to create the proper conditions for concluding this agreement. Instead of concluding an agreement, Kiev immediately turned down all agreements, shoved them into a box and said they would not seek any agreement with Russia, but instead would pursue victory on the battlefield. Let them try.

The Ukrainian turn about came in early April after then UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson threatened Kiev with withholding all 'western' support.

Putin says the Special Military Operation will continue without a change in the plans.

Putin later remarks on the deal to let Ukraine export its grains:

As of today – as of yesterday or the day before – 121 ships left Ukrainian ports. Only three of the 120 ships headed for the poorest countries under the UN food programme. Some 35 percent, maybe a bit more, of the grain exported from Ukraine went to European countries, to non-poor countries, and definitely not to the world’s poorest countries. And only 4.5 percent of the shipments were sent to the poorest countries under the UN programme.
The same applies to our fertiliser exports. This is something unprecedented. I would say this has been an outrageous and shameful decision by the European Commission to lift the ban on the purchase of Russian fertilisers – but solely for their countries, for EU member states. But what about the world’s poorest countries?
So they have lifted sanctions on our fertilisers. The Americans were actually the first to lift them, since they are generally pragmatic people.
[B]ut there are still issues as regards freight and insurance plus the existing ban on entering our ports where our fertilisers are exported from, as well as on financial transfers and settlements. They are aware of this all and keep saying this problem will be solved, but no one is actually doing anything about it.

To be fair, the UN Secretary-General is taking efforts to solve these issues.

This scandal was news to me:

You have probably heard about 300,000 tonnes of Russian fertiliser stuck in European ports; our companies are saying they are ready to provide it for free – just unblock and release it, and we will donate it to the poorest countries and to developing markets. But they are still holding it, and this is absolutely astonishing.

They do not want Russia to earn money – but we are not making a profit by giving away fertiliser. I just do not get what they are doing. What is the purpose of all this? There has been so much talk about providing help to the poorest countries, but exactly the opposite is actually happening.

I have the impression – and this is particularly true for European countries – that these former colonial powers are still living in the paradigm of colonial philosophy, and they are used to living at the expense of others. They still fail to get rid of this paradigm in their daily policies. But it is time to draw certain conclusions and act differently, in a more civilised manner.

There follow questions on China, the Azerbaijan-Armenia conflict, U.S. sanctions against certain persons and their kids and about the G-20.

Then follows a last question about the energy crisis in Europe about which Putin had a lot to say:

The energy crisis in Europe did not begin with the start of Russia’s special military operation in Ukraine, in Donbass; it actually started much earlier, a year before or even earlier. As strange as it may seem, it started with the green agenda.
To pursue momentary political considerations, they chose to completely close down the hydrocarbon energy programmes in their countries. Banks stopped extending loans, ...
Now, we see that prices, say, for natural gas in the United States have risen and production is growing, but not as fast as they would like it to – and the reason is that banks are afraid to issue loans.
These are erroneous reference points in the green agenda, rushing things, and the green energy being unprepared to meet to the demand for huge energy resources to support economic and industrial growth. The economy is growing while the energy sector is shrinking. This is the first drastic mistake.

The second mistake concerns natural gas.

We made attempts to persuade the Europeans to focus on long-term contracts rather than solely on the market. Why? I said it before and will repeat it once again: Gazprom needs to invest billions in development but it must be confident that it will sell gas before making investments. This is what long-term contracts are about.

Mutual obligations are incurred by the sellers and the buyers. They said, “No, let the market regulate itself.“ We kept telling them, “Don't do it or it will lead to drastic consequences.” But in fact, they forced us to include a significant share of the spot price in the contract price. They forced us to do this, and Gazprom had to include both the oil and oil product basket but also the spot price in the gas price. The spot price began to grow, causing the increase in the price envisaged even in long-term contracts. But what does it have to do with us? This is the first thing.

Putin is right with this. The privatization and 'liberalization' of the European gas and electricity markets has never made sense and has indeed had very negative consequences.

Second, I told them many times. “Gazprom is not supplying gas.” Look, are you normal people or what? Poland chose to impose sanctions against the Yamal-Europe gas pipeline and shut off the route. I told Mr [German Chancellor Olaf] Scholz: “Why are you calling me? Call Warsaw and ask them to reopen the route.” That is all there is to it. That’s the first.

Scholz is really that dumb?

Second. Two lines of the gas pipeline run through Ukraine. Ukraine is being supplied with weapons, but it went ahead and closed one of the lines for them. They also shut off another line that supplied 25 billion cubic metres of gas – I will not talk about the exact amount, but they shut off the entire route. What for? Call Kiev and ask them to reopen the second line.

And finally, Nord Stream 1. One turbine goes out of order after another.

Siemens has the maintenance contract for the turbine pressure pumps but sanctions are prevent it from fulfilling it.

There is of course a solution for the lack of natural gas in Europe.

After all, if they need it urgently, if things are so bad, just go ahead and lift sanctions against Nord Stream 2, with its 55 billion cubic metres per year – all they have to do is press the button and they will get it going. But they chose to shut it off themselves; they cannot repair one pipeline and imposed sanctions against the new Nord Stream 2 and will not open it. Are we to blame for this?

Let them think hard about who is to blame and let none of them blame us for their own mistakes. Gazprom and Russia have always fulfilled and will fulfil all obligations under our agreements and contracts, with no failures ever.

It is indeed a sign of cowardice that European politicians blame Russia for problems they themselves have caused. They try to hide it but the facts are all there to point that out. Should Europe really run into energy problems during the winter the political punishment they will receive will be remorseless.

Posted by b on September 19, 2022 at 17:10 UTC | Permalink

« previous page

The USA probably understates how many weapons they are giving to Ukraine.
Posted by: Simon | Sep 20 2022 6:12 utc | 166

I assume bribes paid to Ukrainian and EU politicians is another budget.

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 20 2022 8:42 utc | 201

unimperator | Sep 20 2022 8:38 utc | 197

The other thing about deindustrializion of Europe I don't see mentioned anywhere is the amount of devalued Euro's that will be required to import previously domestic made products. The real hoot on this one is Europe aluminium smelters closing down and Europe now turning to Russia for its aluminium supplies.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 20 2022 8:43 utc | 202

Posted by: Herr Ringbone | Sep 20 2022 7:47 utc | 184

Exactly Herr. aka If it looks like a duck, it's a duck. I cannot work out if that is a ruse or not, except "in retrospect."

Posted by: njet | Sep 20 2022 7:19 utc | 179

Thanks for you good detailed considerate reply, taking it on board and pondering that, but I cannot grasp looking a generation ahead atm.

I'm quite stuck with this comment though - ".... political isolation and economic sanctions. But both are no longer effective." Ineffective, how so?

There's that very minor MIR related back-down by Turkey in the news I mentioned above as an example, and there's the brand new never used Nord Stream2 paid for in full but sitting idle, and the rest of the pipelines on empty, while the US pours $15 bln of arms into Ukriane (that's chicken feed numbers) without the blink of an eye. The US still holds $300 Bln of Russia's money, and $7 bln of Afghanistans; and Russia can't even give it's fertiliser away or ship it anywhere ..... and no can do a damn thing about any of this.

So to me "ineffective" doesn't fit this picture. So I must be missing your meaning and/or reasoning here, or the bigger timeline you envision. But I do appreciate your comments/thoughts, but need a break from this now.

Gerrard White | Sep 20 2022 7:25 utc | 180

Funny! thx

Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 20 2022 8:22 utc | 194
Thank you as well. I guess we'll see as things unfold. Cheers

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 20 2022 8:57 utc | 203

while the US pours $15 bln of arms into Ukriane (that's chicken feed numbers) without the blink of an eye. The US still holds $300 Bln of Russia's money, and $7 bln of Afghanistans

@SeanAU | Sep 20 2022 8:57 utc | 200


Changing interest rates and flows are more important than nominal amounts. Especially the rate change across the zero lower bound asymptote.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 20 2022 9:04 utc | 204

In his interview with PBS NewsHour, Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan was very vocal in his country’s continued opposition to the expansion of Nato to include Finland, but most particularly Sweden. He said:

Here especially, Sweden has been a cradle for terrorism. And the terrorists have infiltrated all the way into their parliaments.

And, in Stockholm, we see terrorists are demonstrating all the time. The banners, the poster of the leader of the terrorist organisations abound. They are demonstrating. They’re throwing slogans. And they’re attacking the innocent Turkish descendants in Stockholm. And we have given all the evidence relevant to these developments to our Swedish interlocutors.

Finland, on the other hand, they’re not like Sweden. They’re a bit more calm, and they have more control over the developments. But Sweden is not like that. They’re always using certain reasons. They’re always using certain excuses. They always talk about the constitution. And, as the reigning principle of the constitution, they value the freedom of expression.

And, in return, I say terrorism has nothing to do with the freedom of expression. And the Turkish Parliament is the eventual decision-maker.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 20 2022 9:08 utc | 205

There are now reports the nazi formations in Ukraine (also known for acting as 'barrier troops') have started welding tank crews inside their tanks. The Japanese also welded some of their kamikaze pilots inside their planes.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 20 2022 9:18 utc | 206

It's that RAND report in action, the Europeans are destroying their own economies to help bolster the USA's economy, its utter madness, if the people of Germany rise up in a revolt, other EU nations people might follow, a bad Winter might get the ball rolling.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 20 2022 9:23 utc | 207

@njet | Sep 20 2022 7:19 utc | 179

"...there will be no revolts in europe..."

I'm not so sure. I still remember the dynamics of the "peaceful revolution" here in East Germany in 1989. It started with small "Monday assemblies" and discussion circles in the church, which rapidly grew and took to the streets. To be fair, all this over matters of life on the higher tiers / tip of the desire pyramid. We all had affordable food, flats and heating, no blackouts, no unemployment let alone (yet to come) any mass-scale one. The problems were more on this level: My mother suffered a nervous breakdown because she was not permitted to travel to attend my brother's wedding in the West; She stayed over 3 month in a mental clinic because of that. Or, the many symptoms of the shortage economy, like when people had to wait for a passenger car for 10+ years. Recurring circumstances: Waiting lists of 1.5 years for an ordinary Skoda are reported; Japanese spare parts may take 6 months or so to be at hand after an accident.

Chances are high that we will have more déjà-vu. This time with exponentially more police / armed force brutality, I'm afraid. Armored police vehicles have been commissioned long since, the interior use of the army was decided this year. If I had to place my bet, I'd put money on "There will be suppressed revolts in Europe, facilitating the transition to openly dictatorial regimes."

Posted by: OttoE | Sep 20 2022 9:28 utc | 208

From the Treasure Dome of MoA: Insights of the Lockdown Era
VK, a commenter more prolific than any other in recent history

The problem with the petite-bourgeoisie is that it is, in essence, a parasitic class. It is more inefficient than the big bourgeoisie and it offers worse working conditions and wages to the working class. In macroeconomic term, we can say the petite-bourgeoisie is a drag on the economy.

But, as I mentioned earlier, the petite-bourgeoisie is a parasitic class. It doesn't create net wealth. The overgrowth of the petite-bourgeoisie in the First World created an imbalance in their economies, a social pyramid that couldn't sustain itself. They became "Zombie Economies".

It is expected, by the American elite, that this pandemic will finally get rid of the parasitic petite-bourgeoisie. Bezos is already gobbling up the market share of local businesses in the USA, while directly attacking the ones he can (e.g. the recent restriction on sales of used items on His wealth is increasing fast, and I expect this process to result in the USA having a completely integrated and modernized logistics infrastructure by the time the deskulakization (extermination of the petite-bourgeoisie) is over. It will be good for the American people, overall: no more corrupt deliverer workers (drone delivery), faster deliveries (centralized logistics), more places included (expansion of the logistics) and cheaper prices (no more "aunt Mary"/inefficiency tax).

and then again:

On the other side, there's big business. They want the lockdown to be as long as possible for the simple reason that this will weed out the inefficient and unproductive petit bourgeoisie, leaving potential for a "creative destruction" which could, in theory, initiate another cycle of capitalist accumulation. They can weather a big lockdown because they have the size to do so, because they already had a huge pile of cash from the ZIRP era and because they will receive huge and generous bailouts. In the USA, they are being represented in the political arena by NY governor Andrew Mark Cuomo.

There is something to consider here, I think.

Posted by: js | Sep 20 2022 9:34 utc | 209

Essential article!
Thank you B.!

Posted by: Nanker | Sep 20 2022 9:44 utc | 210

>> Why would the US -who is the real power- have Bojo be the
>> one to tell Zelensky to stop surrendering with the Russians?"

Some possibilities:

Can you imagine Joe, with or without Hunter, visiting Ukraine? The Biden family has too many public conflicts of interest to be the face of any visit to Ukraine or Taiwan. So they send Bojo or Pelosi and son.

Like someone else wrote, Joe is too tired. Seems like every other time he makes an appearance, he embarrasses himself and the entire west that tolerated his selection.

Sending different heads of the hydra looks like “multilateralism” to the sheeple who don’t see a hydra.

Posted by: dfg | Sep 20 2022 10:05 utc | 211

@ SeanAU

Interesting observations.

Posted by: dfg | Sep 20 2022 10:28 utc | 212

LOL! Ukraine is now inside Luhansk!

Ukraine recaptures village in Luhansk as Russia loses full control of region

This is humilitation over humiliation now for Russia. But again RUssia have always been 1 step behind it has been obvious from the start of the war - there are no plan no goals nor do they have the capabilities needed. Nato backed Ukraine is obviously too strong for Russia.

The result of this total failure is hard to even imagine.

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 20 2022 10:31 utc | 213


Easier for Biden just to phone Zelensky instead of some complicated rigmarole with Johnson.

Assuming of course any of this actually happened, which I doubt.

Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 20 2022 10:38 utc | 214

Peter AU1 [199]

Time for some facts to get in the way of your assertions......

Aluminium production is energy-intensive which is why hydroelectric power generation is often a pre-requisite and why Norway is the major non-Russian producer in has not been economically viable for decades to produce aluminium in Western Europe.........Australia in contrast produces 21 million tonnes and can mince bauxite

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Sep 20 2022 10:46 utc | 215

@ Zanon

I see a bigger plan here - just wait

Posted by: Snowflake | Sep 20 2022 10:48 utc | 216

Re: Posted by: Zanon | Sep 20 2022 10:31 utc | 210

You have no idea what you’re talking about.

Ukraine recapturing parts of Luhansk is a cunning plan on the part of Putin to lure the silly Ukrainians into the trap he has set for them.

The Ukrainians will be routed in Luhansk just like they were routed in Kharkiv.

It’s called 8D chess.

Posted by: Julian | Sep 20 2022 10:49 utc | 217

njet [179]

The situation is similar in the USA. When they were still the unique superpower, they decided to build Germany into an economically strong partner in the fight against the SU. Marshall Plan instead of Morgenthau Plan. Today it is the other way round.

You cannot seriously believe this ??????
Morgenthau Plan was dreamed up by Harry Dexter White, a Soviet agent in the Treasury Department. It was designed to create turmoil in the Western Zones at the prospect of 30 million Germans starving to death and help Stalin have a United Neutral Germany which was Soviet policy into 1950s.

It was JCS1067 which Truman signed 1945 and let the Morgenthau Boys have ideological purity until Clay rejected it and in 1947 it was replaced by JCS1779 which changed tack completely. The last thing the Morgenthau Boys did was to destroy the German banking system to cut off credit supplies to industry.

1947 was a Disaster Year in Europe - especially UK - with huge snow and lack of coal. This was why 1948 Berlin Airlift was critical to Allied credibility and preventing Stalin from sweeping the board.

Germany simply had to survive and it was never a strong economy until 1970s. The D-Mark was printed in USA 1947 and not freely convertible until 1957 when Germany joined EEC. It was not until 1965 that Germany caught up with UK which itself was destitute after 1945.

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Sep 20 2022 10:55 utc | 218


Your total bullshit "is hard to imagine".

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 20 2022 10:59 utc | 219

'A Village' - if it even actually has been seized, is merely propaganda to attempt to prevent the annexation of Lughansk into Russia. Like the Kherson counter offensive scam, it will fail.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 20 2022 11:15 utc | 220

U.K. and Ukraine:

I don’t believe 5 billion people watched the funeral yesterday.
I know that large numbers of us in the U.K. didn’t.

Some republicans at a football game were singing ‘ if you hate the royal family, clap your hands’ - the broadcaster dubbed over it !

There are NO vomit inducing Blue and Yellow badges worn anymore.
There are NO stories of UK mercenaries going to fight for Nazis against the traditional anti-Nazis any more.
There is NO need of the MP’s son supposedly on the frontline bleating ‘Slaves-R-UK’s’ all.

There are 10 days before the largest popular demonstration of protest since the one that stopped the Poll Tax as hundreds of thousands of households cancel their Energy Bank Payments.

Ukraine is toast in our U.K. eyes. We just want to look forward to our football season and the dumbest World Cup in a desert!

And to get our gas and electric prices down asap otherwise there will be toys thrown out of prams.

For Xmas?
Erdo just climbed onto the wall line Humpty Dumpty!
He can’t expect to keep inside Nato and SCO.
A big fall and more tears before bedtime.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Sep 20 2022 11:16 utc | 221

What's your prediction?

Which of todays russiq controlled territory will join the russian federation at the wars conclusion (or freeze)

I can't see russia holding on to the latter two, given the military setbacks

Posted by: FrenziedFrog | Sep 20 2022 11:22 utc | 222

Posted by: FrenziedFrog | Sep 20 2022 11:22 utc | 219

Most likely all of them, Kherson is in no danger as long as the Russians are determined to stay there. The only setbacks they've suffered are for areas they are prepared to concede such as the fields around Kharkov.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 20 2022 11:29 utc | 223


Don't be a snowflake that lives in denial. Toughen up or get out of here. We are dealing with real analysis not the kool-aid make-believe stupidity you propose.

Remember this guy?
Do not be like that guy.

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 20 2022 11:31 utc | 224

@FrenziedFrog | Sep 20 2022 11:22 utc | 219


Zaporizhzhia was included with China's purchase of Motor-Sich.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 20 2022 11:34 utc | 225

So, Putin wasn't invited to Queen Elizabeth's funeral, and neither was any representative from Venezuela and Afghanistan. Putin was one of the first heads of state to send his condolences to royal family, but he was totally snubbed.

Imagine if Putin had been invited, I suppose a conversation could've broken out between him and the new UK PM Liz Truss, on how to invoke some sort of peace treaty. However, it's clear to see that Truss is just a puppet and Biden is running the show, when it comes to Ukraine-peace is not the goal of the US or the UK.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 20 2022 11:54 utc | 226

BERLIN (Reuters) -German producer prices rose in August at their strongest rate since records began both in annual and monthly terms, driven mainly by soaring energy prices, raising the chances that headline inflation will surge even higher.

Producer prices of industrial products increased by 45.8% on the same month last year, the Federal Statistical Office reported on Tuesday. Compared to July 2022, prices rose 7.9%, it added.

In Hanover, northern Germany, baker Eckehard Vatter, who has 35 branches and employs 430 people, went to the press recently after his gas bill rose by 1,200% to €75,000 (£65,800) a month. “Are they crazy? We will have to turn off the ovens,” he said, taking to the streets with about 1,000 other bakers on Wednesday, who held up placards accusing politicians of “steering us into the biggest crisis of all time” and calling for urgent state support.

Yasmin Fahimi, the head of the Federation of German Trade Unions (DGB), said she fears the consequences of so many challenges coming at once. “Some companies are on the edge. This risks a domino effect which could lead to the deindustrialisation of Germany, which would be a catastrophe,” she told Spiegel.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Sep 20 2022 12:18 utc | 227

Zanon | Sep 20 2022 10:31 utc | 210

"...[Luhansk]...Russia loses full control..."

I guess we will see more UAF / mercenary / NATO effforts of the "no-matter-how-many-victims" type within the the next seven days. Plus more war crimes against civilians. Khoroshilov (LPR) and Pushilin (DPR) announced today that the referenda on the joining of the republics to RF will be held between September 23 and 27. A positive outcome leaves both justification for RF's escalation and enough time for the Allies to highlight the ineptitude of Biden and vasalls before November 8. After all, LDPR need a HERIOIC victory for the history books. And this requires a STRONG opponent, not the US vs. goat herders type.

Posted by: OttoE | Sep 20 2022 12:20 utc | 228

too scents | Sep 20 2022 11:34 utc | 222

If wiki are right, Ukraine are renationalising Motor Sich and selling a big stake to Turkey.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Sep 20 2022 12:24 utc | 229

@FrenziedFrog | Sep 20 2022 11:22 utc | 219

What's your prediction?

Which of todays russiq controlled territory will join the russian federation at the wars conclusion (or freeze)

I can't see russia holding on to the latter two, given the military setbacks

We can simply read today:
Kherson Region to Hold Referendum on Joining Russia


The Kherson region will soon hold a referendum on joining the Russian Federation, head of the Kherson administration Vladimir Saldo declared on Tuesday.
The decision was announced after the Kherson Civic Council appealed to the head of the region, calling for the holding of a referendum as soon as possible.

"We consider that now - more than ever - it is time to take a crucial decision to immediately hold a referendum on making the Kherson region a part of the Russian Federation. We are sure that the initiative will be fully supported by the residents of the Kherson region, and joining Russia will not only be a triumph of historical justice, but will also secure the territory of the region, open new opportunities on the way to the revival and restoration of the power of our land and the return to a full-fledged peaceful life", said Vladimir Ovcharenko, the head of the council.

Soon afterwards, the "We Are Together with Russia" social movement asked Zaporozhye regional head Yevgeny Balitsky to hold a similar vote. Head of the movement Vladimir Rogov later noted that the referendum may take place in the coming days.

"A general vote may take place in the coming days. We want certainty and a stable, happy future. We are looking forward to the announcement of the vote. We are ready to exercise our right to self-determination and put an end to the issue of territorial belonging of the Zaporozhye territory," he told Sputnik.

Thus, the regions followed the DPR and LPR, where local civic chambers have also urged the authorities to formally unite with Russia.
Meanwhile, Speaker of the Russian State Duma Vyacheslav Volodin announced that legislators will grant their support if people confirm their readiness to join Russia in a referendum.


Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 20 2022 12:24 utc | 230

OttoE | Sep 20 2022 12:20 utc | 225

Addendum: The immediate fear of retaliation a lá Bucha and Donezk area will convince many of the still swaying voters in LDPR to think twice whether or not they want to return to the Nazi realm. So, a village or two might just be part of the Allied election campaign.

Posted by: OttoE | Sep 20 2022 12:29 utc | 231

NTV (German news broadcaster) reports 20.09.22 2.30 p.m. as
It is estimated that Moscow occupies more than a sixth of Ukraine's territory. Turkish President Erdogan is now demanding that Russia return the occupied territories to Ukraine. This also applies to the annexed peninsula of Crimea.
Abstract :
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has called for the return of Russian-held territories to Ukraine. "Of course, if peace is to be established in Ukraine, the return of the occupied land will be really important. That is expected," Erdogan said in an interview published by the US broadcaster PBS on Monday evening. "The occupied territories will be returned to Ukraine." Likewise, the Crimean Peninsula, annexed by Russia, must be returned to Ukraine.

Posted by: Mo3 | Sep 20 2022 12:32 utc | 232

Rapid incorporation of Lugansk, Donetsk, Kherson, Zaporozhie oblasts into Russia, signals the will to use the whole might of Russian army against fascist Kievan Ukraine.

Wait and see Red October ...

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Sep 20 2022 12:32 utc | 233

@YetAnotherAnon | Sep 20 2022 12:24 utc | 226

That's the joke.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 20 2022 12:38 utc | 234


Kherson Region to Hold Referendum on Joining Russia on September 23-27
The region will hold a referendum the same day as the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics.

In other words: The dynamic will change completely in the coming week.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 20 2022 12:41 utc | 235

... A major industry in the Baltic States has been providing port services to the Russian Federation and to the greater Eurasia. Anti-Russian policies of the Baltic States have forced Russia to build their own port terminals. Russian crude oil used to be exported through the oil terminal in Ventspils in Latvia. Now Russia has built a new terminal in Ust-Luga.

Finland too is destroying its economy with sanctions. Finland had already become the terminus of the Trans-Siberian railroad route from China. In March Finland cut all railroad transport to Russia. Finnair lost its lucrative Asian routes after Finland banned Russian planes from Finnish airspace. In May, Finland refused to pay the gas and electricity bills for April, leading to a minor energy crisis in Finland.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 20 2022 8:09 utc | 190

It looks intentional, the crassly militant husk-nations of Ukro-Balt Atlanticism, plague blankets thrown at Russia’s doorstep, the EU core rapidly nazifying, insect burgers and militarised streets.

Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 20 2022 12:47 utc | 236

Russian incendiary shelling (thermite) of a recently-liberated village near Lyman:

Posted by: Yenwoda | Sep 20 2022 12:59 utc | 237

Rumbles in the pro-Russian telegram accounts seem to signal that Russian mobilization is incoming. Long overdue if Russia wants to actually win this war.

W/r/t the clobber list being "government propaganda," no one seems to have a problem with "government propaganda" when it comes from their chosen side. And "government propaganda" is all we have - even "OSINT analysts" are explicitly government-aligned, work alongside specific government forces, get funded by government money, and parrot what government handlers tell them to. We won't know how well the US provided systems performed against the Russian ones until the war is over and the incentive to propagandize lessens (although companies like Raytheon and LM will still have an incentive to exaggerate the usefulness of their systems).

Posted by: fnord | Sep 20 2022 13:20 utc | 238

YetAnotherAnon | Sep 20 2022 12:18 utc | 224

Please do me a favor and avoid mentioning Yasmin Fahimi ever again. It generates retching spasms in my body. She is a willing tool to the oligarchs. I will never forget her spit-dripping chin on prime time TV when she ranted against the train driver's union GDL. Please just say "head of the trade union roof organisation" or sthg. like this. - Apropos " many challenges...". How many does she deem tolerable, and which, especially in the light that ALL of them are unnecessary, if it wasn't for her kin.

Posted by: OttoE | Sep 20 2022 13:38 utc | 239

The dynamic will change completely in the coming week.
Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 20 2022 12:41 utc | 232

From tomorrow probably. Ukr will increase terrorist attacks at maximum.
It seems Putin will have a speech tonight.

@fnord | Sep 20 2022 13:20 utc | 235
Put your mobilization ideas up your ass. I bet you'll like it

Posted by: rk | Sep 20 2022 13:39 utc | 240

And now Putin has gathered representatives of the Russian military-industrial complex and is holding a meeting with them. The gears moved, the mechanism was finally started.
Question : What happens after em 23.09 to 27.09 will Ukraine now escalate ?
Or it will be from 01.10. 22 then a war with that name and the resulting law will be very, very bad for countries that supply weapons, so that no matter what excuses they find....are participants in the war! And have to reckon with the right reaction!

Posted by: Mo3 | Sep 20 2022 14:00 utc | 241

@ Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 20 2022 9:23 utc | 204

"that RAND report" turned out to be a fake, i posted RAND's own denial a few days ago.

As for Europeans committing suicide, let us hope common sense will soon prevail. Right now we are seeing a game of chicken being played by both sides, lots of posturing and trying to bully the other side to comply to their will.

Life in Europe still seems very normal to me. Pretty sure a fair share of Russians are not too pleased about a 6 month war that is going nowhere... plus travel, banking etc issues, a life and an economy that has many less options than 12 months ago. For sure, those making the decisions on both sides won't be the ones paying the price for gambling with our future... but nothing new there.

Posted by: Et Tu | Sep 20 2022 14:03 utc | 242

Russia will change designation from SMO to CTO after the referendums.

They will partially mobilize currently undeployed units of Russian military and reserves.

They will not conduct a full mobilization, as this would be politically and economically a problem, and would weaken their stance vis-à-vis the EU, US and sanctions.

I expect they will begin to counter US / NATO Intel drones.

I expect they will hit Kiev and Lviv government buildings and infrastructure.

I do not expect they will escalate beyond these items initially. They should now have sufficient force and manpower to clear the Donbass and set up a safe perimeter.

After that project is completed they will proceed to Odessa.

Posted by: WJ | Sep 20 2022 14:04 utc | 243

Once again people: the "Kharkiv offensive" this time is no different than the Kharkiv offensive earlier. Which is to say: Ukrainian units "attack", get mauled as Russian/LDPR units pull back, then the Russian/LDPR units come back later.
It seems very clear that the SMO goal at the moment is completing the liberation of Donetsk first.
If the Ukrainians want to Twitter War win in Kharkiv, the AFR/LDPR forces are happy to charge manpower/equipment fees each time...

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 20 2022 14:06 utc | 244


So quaking in the shadow of the Empire of Lies is "tough"? Real analysis, eh? Are you some oxymoronic "political scientist" or somesuch exclusive qualifier as a geopolitical realist?

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 20 2022 14:13 utc | 245

Oh well, if the extremely ethical and idealistic RAND denies it, then it can't be true, can it? Most reassuring....And if you find life in Europe normal, I guess you are living on the antipodes. People are going broke, almost everyone here is pessimistic. None of the ruling Western politicians are popular and few of them have anyting wise to say - it's all going downhill for some years while Russia is succesfully re-inventing itself. Deal with that and face reality, not your propaganda dreams!

Posted by: Anthony | Sep 20 2022 14:15 utc | 246


As a Yank, I can assure you that Biden doesn't run anything...except, in his many "challenged" moments, his mouth. He is but a laughingstock to a plurality of Americans and multi-millions throughout the world.

Afraid, old boy, that the true shotcallers are centered primarily on the Sceptred Isle in City of London. Of course those highest capital financiers do share a bit of the action with the nice boys on Wall $treet.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 20 2022 14:18 utc | 247


"Sultan" Erdogan has a well known habit of speaking out of both sides of his mouth. He flips around like a beached porpoise.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 20 2022 14:24 utc | 248


We may expect EU/Natostani "leaders" to soon triple their personal guard staff. With the first chilblains of Autumn the plebes and serfs will become restless.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 20 2022 14:27 utc | 249

Referendums to join the Russian Federation will be held in the Lugansk and Donetsk People’s Republics (LPR and DPR) from September 23 to 27 :

Well, after hearing so much gossip and BS about "GAME CHANGER", finally we get a real one with phenomenal significance. Putin is right - 'you ain't see nothing yet !!!'.

Posted by: YIU | Sep 20 2022 14:31 utc | 250

The world is waiting...even if there is no one in the west.
She is waiting for Putin's promised speech tonight!
But in the West NO ONE will hear the wording in its entirety!

Posted by: Mo3 | Sep 20 2022 14:32 utc | 251

@fnord #235,

W/r/t the clobber list being "government propaganda," no one seems to have a problem with "government propaganda" when it comes from their chosen side. And "government propaganda" is all we have - even "OSINT analysts" are explicitly government-aligned, work alongside specific government forces, get funded by government money, and parrot what government handlers tell them to.

There are definitely lots of people on both sides that believe the Russian Clobber List and dismiss the Ukrainian one, or vice versa. Both are worthless. The difference with OSINT is that you show your work, so even if an OSINT source is ideologically aligned to one side, you can evaluate the evidence. There's no evidence at all for the Clobber Lists and the blind faith of "the Russian/Ukrainian MoD would never lie to us" is totally pitiful.

On mobilization, I don't think we will see conscripts sent to the front in any significant numbers. And Russia is already using every conventional capability it has, to the maximum effect that it's able to. E.g. strategic bombers aren't used except to launch missiles from standoff range because Russia lacks air superiority (let alone supremacy). What mobilization provides is a solution to the "refusenik problem" and the bigger problem of contract soldiers demobilizing instead of renewing their contracts. Plus industrial/economic alignment to military goals of replenishing materiel stocks that are heavily depleted in certain categories.

Some reliable analysts like Muzychka think that Lyman is liberated, I would wait for confirmation though.

Posted by: Yenwoda | Sep 20 2022 14:33 utc | 252

Posted by: OttoE | Sep 20 2022 9:28 utc | 205

I heard the HO Laden were so empty the SED was raiding NVA stocks of soap and other basics to fill the shelves.

1972 the DDR was bust but kept alive after OPEC Crisis because USSR sold discount oil to DDR which sold it to the West for hard currency and burned lignite at home. Sounds a bit like cheap gas from Russia letting Germany acquire export surpluses ad infinitum

As for today - Maslow had a pyramid - at the bottom were essentials like Food, Shelter, and Warmth.........can Habeck, Scholz, and Lindner guarantee those ?

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Sep 20 2022 14:35 utc | 253

the true shotcallers are centered primarily on the Sceptred Isle in City of London.

Were that true I should be so relieved ! Knowing the Americans were not in charge would bring great comfort !

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Sep 20 2022 14:36 utc | 254

Posted by: Yenwoda | Sep 20 2022 14:33 utc | 249

According to Russian law, reservists can only be deployed on Russian territory absent a full declaration of war. If Russian territories expand to include the Donbass, then Russian reservists can be legally deployed in those areas. They will likely be assigned tasks like policing, counter sabotage, and other things on the rear lines, thus freeing up existent troops to focus on front.

So the referendums are directly related to the question of the legal mobilization of reservists.

Whether Russia mobilizes beyond this is anybody’s guess.

Posted by: WJ | Sep 20 2022 14:40 utc | 255

... Sending different heads of the hydra looks like “multilateralism” to the sheeple who don’t see a hydra.

Posted by: dfg | Sep 20 2022 10:05 utc | 208

It certainly came across as a purely optical choice. I’d agree that what we see is unlikely to be anything but the deliberate movement of board pieces - held in place with kompromat (US/UK) and death squads (UA) - that serve solely to reflect decisions already taken. The actors we see rarely possess anything more than a veneer of agency. Bozza collars Z, scuppers peace agreement, strikes me as a quintessentially manufactured event of that type.

Anyone who threatens the UA war-brothel will be forced out or killed, hence Zaluzhnyi’s apparent uselessness. Everyone we can see on the UA side’s got a gun pointed at then from just out of frame.

Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 20 2022 14:41 utc | 256

Knowing the Americans were not in charge would bring great comfort !
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Sep 20 2022 14:36 utc | 251


Why? Family Offices are fungible.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 20 2022 14:43 utc | 257

And now Putin has gathered representatives of the Russian military-industrial complex and is holding a meeting with them. The gears moved, the mechanism was finally started. . Posted by: Mo3 | Sep 20 2022 14:00 utc | 238

Obviously the pressure has been building on Putin to do more faster. It appears that the conversation with Xi at the SCO has become a tipping point.

China probably believes forcing the US/NATO to commit more weapons and forces to Ukraine will reduce the likelyhood of them intervening in Taiwan.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Sep 20 2022 14:47 utc | 258

Twitter thread on the referendums.

The Eurasianist
Referendums in Donetsk, Lugansk and Kherson on joining the Russian Federation are a mobilization in disguise, or how to launch a partial mobilization without actually doing it officially.

Why? Simple, because Russian reservists/conscripts can be deployed to territories in the former Ukraine without the need to change the definition of the SMO, its scope, or transforming it into a real war.

This means the professional Russian Army, Donbass People's Militias, Wagner PMCs and Chechens can stay permanently on the frontline without caring about what happens in the rear.

The inclusion of Lugansk, Donetsk and Kherson into the Russian Federation could lead to an expasion of Russian military presence on former Ukrainian territory to 350k soldiers without mobilization, the added 200k would be on duty as if they were on the rest of Russian territory.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 20 2022 14:48 utc | 259

Update on @247

Kherson and Zaporozhye Regions to Hold Referendums on Joining Russia on September 23-27 :

Posted by: YIU | Sep 20 2022 14:51 utc | 260

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Sep 20 2022 14:47 utc | 255

Undoubtedly but this must have been in the works for quite a while. The first date is September 23 !!

Posted by: Jonathan W | Sep 20 2022 14:54 utc | 261

"The occupied territories will be returned to Ukraine." Likewise, the Crimean Peninsula, annexed by Russia,

Posted by: Mo3 | Sep 20 2022 12:32 utc | 229

And he is supposedly pretty tight with Putin these days.
Hmmm, wonder if he knows that once the referenda are passed and the Duma approves that the whole issue of 'occupied territories' will vanish since they will be inhabited by RF citizens.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 20 2022 14:58 utc | 262

aristodemos | Sep 20 2022 14:24 utc | 245

Pretty successful beached porpoise – he’s everywhere – indispensable, unavoidable, and signing deals with both sides, then telling them both to….

Yet – as has been related by dispassionate observers, his beach is an Asian beach

Only ideologues resent his so called switching of ‘sides’ – in fact his self interest is rational and constant – his peers recognise this, and recogise that he can be relied on in the specific circumstances that suit him – the perfect go between

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 20 2022 15:07 utc | 263

@yenwoda 249

You don't need to accept the Russian tally to see that Ukraine has lost almost all of its prewar combat vehicle and aircraft assets. Destruction of repair facilities has aggravated this shortage. The evidence for the Ukrainian hardware losses is the large transfers of old Soviet gear from friendly neighbors. After this is destroyed, presumably we will see an influx of U.S. Humvees and E.U. tanks.

The problem that mobilization (full or partial) will solve for the Russians is the ability to hold ground. Right now, the Ukrainians have enough infantry to push into lightly defended areas on the long lines of conflict. With more forces in theater, the Russians can hold their gains while steadily advancing toward Odessa and Kherson.

Posted by: HH | Sep 20 2022 15:18 utc | 264

My opinion on it, and I'm allowed to have it!
Russia will change the designation from SMO to CTO after the referendums.
They will partially mobilize currently undeployed units of the Russian military and reserves.
Because, everyone in the West is acting as if Russia had to mobilize or draft conscripts!
NO, Russia does NOT have to!
If Putin declares war... he has enough armed forces at his disposal!
He is only not allowed to use them abroad without a declaration of war....if there is a referendum. But then he MAY do it!!! Since these areas are then Russia ‼
Why do you always twist facts and reasons?
Putin is not weak....on the contrary he is smart....
if these regions then belong to Russia, he does not need a declaration of war and can deploy Russian troops there.
If that doesn't work, there's still a declaration of war!!!
If Ukraine then continues to bully these areas, that is the reason for a declaration of war...because Ukraine then attacks Russia ( civilians ) ‼
On the contrary...Putin can set a deadline for Ukraine to withdraw...if she doesn't, all targets in Ukraine are open to fire!!!!
Heh... Putin had during the operation in Ukraine !!!
while !!! 2 domestic maneuvers with 50,000 and one 125,000 soldiers + technology in action!
Which idiot then speaks of a shortage of troops and the need for mobilization ❓
When I hear the rubbish of worn-out generals from the retirement home
Rutin "Must train these conscripts first"
Such rubbish! In Russia there are about 240,000 men under arms...just not allowed to be used yet!
He only needs the declaration of war to be able to deploy these troops abroad, which means Donbass!!!
They will not carry out a full mobilization as this would be a problem politically and economically and would weaken their stance towards the EU, US and sanctions.
I assume they will start countering US/NATO Intel drones.
And then take advantage of the martial law that allows them to attack any country that supplies weapons or prevent their supplies from being transported!
Although...I don't believe that armaments industry locations will become targets...which would be possible...Putin explained that the SMO would become a war!!!
I assume they will hit government buildings and infrastructure in Kyiv and Lviv.
That he shuts down power plants and waterworks, that maybe? Also Ukrainian AKWS in the west of Ukraine are shut down, for this he does NOT have to attack the reactors themselves.
Because the rest is done by winter, with millions of refugees heading to Germany, their systems will be given the rest!
I don't expect they will escalate beyond these points at first. With martial law then, they should now have enough force and manpower to evacuate the Donbass and establish a secure border. Possibly things can get tight for Finland and Balten. Because war with Ukraine automatically triggers the alliance case with Belarus ‼
After completion of this project they will move on to Odessa.... because Odessa is the key for peace in Ukraine....and the desired destination of the USA !!
And whether the West recognizes these referendums...interested like last year's water level report!!!
Even if Scholz / Biden and & think YOU determine what is right in the world..

Posted by: Mo3 | Sep 20 2022 15:19 utc | 265

They bluffed referendum in Kherson a few times and had to pull out of the North because Ukraine didn't bite. Time is not on Russia's side.
They tried to force Ukraine to attack in the south before the Northern army was built and armed by Nato.
The Russian's might be trying to force an attack or a peace deal before the flooded river dries up and/or before more equipment and troops arive.
If they are not bluffing Russia might take the whole lot

Posted by: OhhCanada | Sep 20 2022 15:21 utc | 266

The problem that mobilization (full or partial) will solve for the Russians is the ability to hold ground. Right now, the Ukrainians have enough infantry to push into lightly defended areas on the long lines of conflict. With more forces in theater, the Russians can hold their gains while steadily advancing toward Odessa and Kherson.

Posted by: HH | Sep 20 2022 15:18 utc | 261

That's the crux of the matter. The front line is extremely long. If you can get more guys to hold the line and garrison some of those areas, the contract core can get on doing what they are supposed to do i.e. instead of merely defending / holding the line and patrolling some rear areas, destroying the enemy. And things will stabilize a lot quicker. Superior firepower does reduce losses, too.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 20 2022 15:29 utc | 267

Posted by: OhhCanada | Sep 20 2022 15:21 utc | 263

These referendum announcements no doubt have influence on UA military decisions, since it is heavily influenced by Zelensky/US politicians. If they hear about a referendum, they will increase pressure and throw everything they got. There are possibilities to use that knowledge as an advantage.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 20 2022 15:31 utc | 268

@ C1ue #14

I just verified with my boss { wife} and she said we pay 4 to 5 rubles /1 CM. In summer we use 30 to 50 Cm a month and in Winter 180 -220 max. I figured Europeans might use more gaz than me. Maybe not but these are my numbers to date.It was very cheap when this place ws Ukraine also, but now the folks in Ukraine got IMF/Kiev screwed. Spacibo

Posted by: GMC | Sep 20 2022 15:43 utc | 269

Yes, the so called 'crisis' in energy started well before February 24, 2022. I think one just needs to look at the WEF 'Great Reset', UN Agenda 2030 and you will recognize how starving and freezing the population fits so nicely into the Central Bank plans to subjugate humanity. If I had the power, and if I wanted to enslave the population, first I would reduce the population as much as possible, while at the same time I would create chaos and human hardship throughout the world. Then I would declare the only answer to your suffering is we must have order and that will only come with a Central government and a new currency system, the Central Bank digital Currency.
Anyway, it goes something like that.

Posted by: joesph | Sep 20 2022 15:47 utc | 270

First snowfall in Southern Germany down to ~1400 meters. Perhaps a cold winter on the way ? TBD

Posted by: Exile | Sep 20 2022 15:47 utc | 271

now here's a paradox: the more trolls of the Yenwoda and their ilk talk about what Russinans cannot or will not do, the more they show their utter lack of comprehension or honesty. We should all be thankful that Russia has many, many conventional means still at its disposal and is not considering the nuclear option. I find it unbelievable that so many people keep pushing for the last. However, even if the Russian authorities are extremely wise and patient, officially enlarging Russia's territory will move the doomsday's clock a little bit on, so a certain speech tonight might well be of enormous consequence. Thanks to NATO the world is in a greater predicament than ever before. And our little trolls will start to comprehend when they see the mushroom cloud.

Posted by: anthony | Sep 20 2022 15:56 utc | 272

I do not expect they will escalate beyond these items initially.

Posted by: WJ | Sep 20 2022 14:04 utc | 240

But there is a profound change in status should
a) the referenda go through with the desire to join RF and
b) the Duma and then Russian Federation President accept those residents as Russian citizens in Russian territory.

Because at that point the RF govt is obliged to defend its citizens against attack and moreover any attack against such citizens becomes an act of war. So the whole SMO or ATO issue becomes moot.

Of course Western narratives will insist the change of status is unlawful - as they keep doing viz Crimea - but ultimately what matters most is what the people on the ground feel. If they are Russian citizens and the RF accepts them as such, then the entire campaign against them by the Ukie govt with NATO-US support is a different ball game. RF knows this very well so IF they accept the new status of those territories and citizens it is certain they will also be ready to act in very different ways if for no other reason than that they will constitutionally obliged to do so.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 20 2022 15:59 utc | 273

Yenwoda@249,Lyman, an ethnic Russian settlement, was liberated several months ago. Are you not keeping up on events or are you terminally confused?

Posted by: Aristodemos | Sep 20 2022 16:06 utc | 274

Ukraine still terrorizes peaceful inhabitants of the Donbass, like the attack of the market yesterday, and continues to undermine their self rule by targeting administration officials. People whose only sin is the desire to leave racist Kiev central control that ethnically demonized them for years. The Donbass citizens have had it and ask for protection!

Posted by: alek_a | Sep 20 2022 16:09 utc | 275


The U$$A puppet regime and military are but the ravenous attack dogs for the trillionaire financier elite, who at both the Rottenchild Bank and the Bank of England, as well as their ownership of the Crown; just happen to be the primary string-pullers. So rest easy, until after one provocation too many, a purely kinetic hypersonic missile strikes the snakes' nest.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 20 2022 16:10 utc | 276

"Macron was denied an urgent telephone conversation with Putin, the Kremlin said."

Find your place in the queue, Macron.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 20 2022 16:15 utc | 277


You do post absolute drivel. People with such paranoid delusional perspectives are hilariously amusing. You can neither spell nor comprehend the gibberish you are posting. It is childish and preposterous suggestive of someone without a clue as to what goes on outside his bedroom walls

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Sep 20 2022 16:16 utc | 278


Ah you see too-scents I have this notion the US President is senile and his sidekick is not much better. I know you will refute this and say it is fine by you and you are Yankee Doodle Dandy, but I consider DC to be in the hands of idiots who should not be unsupervised - and frankly anyone not American is preferable to the arsonists in Washington

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Sep 20 2022 16:20 utc | 279

@ La Bastille # 24
We pay the same for 1 KWH of electric as a CM of gaz - 4 - 5 rubles. We get a Pensioner break tho.

@ Roger #111
Thanks for the info and the wife went thru last months bill and we are at 4 to 5 rubles per 1 CM and used 30 to 50 /mon. in summer and 180 -220 in winter. Electric costs 4 rubles / 1 KWH. Your 26 cents /1 CM is not bad if you heat,cook and use HW sparingly, esp. if you have a decent job. Most local folks{ not Russian military or admin } here don't make a lot of money per month - $450 to 700 a mon. converted. Spacibo Gents.

Posted by: GMC | Sep 20 2022 16:23 utc | 280

"Putin is expected to make a statement to the nation, along with Russian Defense minister Shoigu in 1 hour from now on. "

Posted ~20 minutes ago.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 20 2022 16:23 utc | 281

At Escobar's VK, the referenda are the hot topic in which he cites Medvedev:


That's pretty much the official version.

The referenda are crucial for "restoration of historical justice."

They "completely change the vector of Russia's development for decades. And not only our country. Because after they are held and the new territories are accepted into Russia, the geopolitical transformation in the world will become irreversible."

This passage is key:

"Encroachment on the territory of Russia is a crime."

And then, "after the amendments to the Constitution (...) no future leader of Russia, no official will be able to reverse these decisions."

That is why these referendums are so feared in Kiev and in the West."

Brace for MAJOR impact.

My comment to this follows:

"I see these developments as the Russian way of Lawfare, as with Crimea 100% legal under UN Charter and established precedent. Now incorporated into Russia they can be defended by all members of Russia's military, which is a critical legal distinction within Russia. Plus, NATO will then be directly attacking Russia. IMO, this change will be something the Global South will support, while the West has no more sanctions to wield of any import. BigLie Media will scream, bitch and moan, but the deal will be done."

The referenda are also linked to facts on the ground, both now and in future. It remains difficult to discern what Russia's Fall/Winter plan is, but consolidation of ground already gained seems certain while the twin SMO goals continue to be worked on daily. Perhaps S could inform us about Russian public opinion regarding capturing and incorporating Odessa and rest of Black Sea coastline.

Enlarging Russia will alter the SMO's dynamic regarding troop deployment and usage. Duma head Volodin is quoted by Escobar, "Volodin is already on the record: If the people of Donbass say they want to be part of Russia, the Duma will support them." Thus my question for S since Duma reflects public opinion. How far West to Duma members think proper?

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2022 16:41 utc | 282

@ Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 20 2022 16:15 utc | 274

Maroon struggles to be relevant.

Putin should require evidence that he represents sovereign state, before granting phone appointment. Should be prior agreeed agenda which would not include threats.

Posted by: jared | Sep 20 2022 16:47 utc | 283

Posted by: jared | Sep 20 2022 16:47 utc | 283

We'll be against the wall in Europe with these idiots, Macron and his phone call and Engelbert Pedro Sánchez saying stupid things on Politico, like the war is with Europe and that Europe is winning! what an idiot. All of them imperial bus boys, Peter will be promoted to waiter, nice looks for old harpies tables. The speech is coming, feels like February 24 all over again.

Posted by: Paco | Sep 20 2022 17:26 utc | 284

The broadcast of Putin's and Shoigu's live address to the nation is now slated to begin at 21:00 Moscow Time.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 20 2022 17:51 utc | 285

In order to Build Back Better in the west, things must be torn down. This ties into population reduction and and NWO. Hence, de industrialization. Germany is the industrial powerhouse of the EU, and must be dealt with first. With Gazprom out of the picture, and no long term cheap contracts, a manipulated paper market for gas will be created generating immense profits for the elites, benefiting the US energy firms directly. Thus, major industries in Germany will be down scaled or removed, and the de-industrialization will proceed across Europe.
Because of a legacy of over 200yrs of privacy and private property rights, the USA will be a tougher nut to crack. The propaganda centered around the phony green new deal will be increased. Many woke people have bought into the zero carbon, global warming fraud, and will make the sacrifice to lower living standards. The rest of the underdeveloped world will not be allowed to modernize using carbon.
I take seriously, and at face value, what people like Gates and Soros say on the record. They believe that
to sustain the planet, it needs to have less people, especially useless eaters. Everything that's happening now with vaccines, sanctions, war, fertilizer/food supply etc, starts to make more sense when looked at as a means to reduce future population. Getting off carbon based energy, will help to facilitate this goal.

Posted by: Sphinxcol | Sep 20 2022 17:59 utc | 286

... But there is a profound change in status should
a) the referenda go through with the desire to join RF and
b) the Duma and then Russian Federation President accept those residents as Russian citizens in Russian territory.
Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 20 2022 15:59 utc | 273

Agreed, it’s also possible to interpret the seemingly endless delay in formally integrating liberated territories into RF as either a plausible desire to wait until the dust has settled or (more interestingly) a very Putinian desire to keep the option of those territories remaining formally Ukrainian genuinely on the table, to encourage, if at all possible, a sane frame of mind in UA decision making.

As you note, once they’re formally I integrated, things change. Perhaps [Norwegian | Sep 20 2022 16:15 utc | 277] with the link about Macron trying to urgently speak to Putin is a measure of just how much things change =)

Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 20 2022 18:47 utc | 287

"...The propaganda centered around the phony green new deal will be increased. Many woke people have bought into the zero carbon, global warming fraud, and will make the sacrifice to lower living standards. The rest of the underdeveloped world will not be allowed to modernize using carbon..."

There is nothing fraudulent about climate change- a direct consequence of capitalism.

Otherwise you are correct- the various 'green new deals' are all phony, have no chance of succeeding in curbing global warming and are, as you say, designed to facilitate an agenda of the ruling capitalist class, which includes retaining control over the economies of the planet.

In order to raise living standards without artificial (murderous) population reduction measures and drastically reducing the levels of pollution of the atmosphere and elsewhere in the biosphere, all that is needed is to replace the ruling class-which has no interest in preserving the earth and is as incapable of rational thought on the economy as a bull alone with a cow in heat- and allow democracy to deal serially with the crises caused by the Capitalocene.

In these matters of 'green transition' etc it is necessary while emptying out the dirty water to preserve the life of the baby in the bathtub.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 20 2022 19:20 utc | 288

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