Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 22, 2022

Open (NOT Ukraine) Thread 2022-154

News and views NOT related to the Ukraine conflict ...

Posted by b on September 22, 2022 at 10:33 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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@ bevin

Hey bevin, it's just two weeks of no heat in Germany to stick it to the Ruskies, eh?

My gubmint told me it would only be two weeks.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 23 2022 7:52 utc | 101

If a Russian tank gets stuck in the mud on the way to Brussels, would you be willing to push?

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 23 2022 8:47 utc | 102

Boeing to pay $200 mln to settle U.S. charges it misled investors about 737 MAX

WASHINGTON, Sept 22 (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N) will pay $200 million to settle civil charges by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission that it misled investors about its 737 MAX, which was grounded for 20 months after two fatal crashes killed 346 people, the agency said on Thursday.

Boeing knew after the first crash that a flight control system posed a safety issue, but assured the public that the 737 MAX airplane was "as safe as any that has ever flown the skies," the SEC said in announcing the settlement.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeing-pay-200-million-settle-civil-charges-it-misled-investors-about-737-max-2022-09-22/

Posted by: too scents | Sep 23 2022 8:54 utc | 103

Von der Leyen: "We will see the result of the vote in Italy. If things go in a difficult direction, we have tools, as in the case of Poland and Hungary."

Posted by: rk | Sep 23 2022 10:34 utc | 104

Posted by: bevin | Sep 23 2022 3:26 utc | 87

Bevin - While I have great respect for your many contributions to the debate at MoA, on this occasion I must chide you on your innocence, and your incomprehensible degree of misplaced trust in the political elite you cavil against.

b has elected to avoid his blog developing a focus on medical issues and I want to respect his decision in that regard so I ask you this:

Are you aware of the sizeable financial contribution you are making to support the destruction of life and property in 404?

If your answer is "YES" do you not undermine your own position as voiced in the majority of your posts at MoA? Do you not paint yourself as a hypocrite? As a pawn of the political system to which you object and the immeasurable suffering that it causes? If you accept and endorse the advanced military training of professed Nazis and the delivery to them of ammunition and equipment which enables them to proceed with their avowed genocidal intent, are you not an active participant in that genocide?

You have demonstrated your knowledge of recent history. Do you claim to be unaware of what occurred in Europe in the run up to September 10th 1939? Do not agree that were it not for an immeasurable silence millions of lives were destroyed and incalculable treasures were lost? Do you not see parallels between that period and our current era, and the incendiary potential of the conflict in 404?

Do you not agree that you, I, our loved ones, fellow humans of all stripes and colours, the entirety of the species, are being placed at risk?

Is it not the case that the lack of adequate debate, and the failure to surface relevant issues in public fora, is a major contributing factor in our slouch toward a morning of ten thousand suns?

Can you not find parallels between the present period of repression and that associated with the trucker protest, a protest which had nothing to do with trucks or trucking and everything to do with a "democratic" state acting against the interests of its own citizens and denying them the opportunity to not only debate the issues, but denying to them the inviolability of their person?

And if there exist parallels between the COVID repression and the present repression would you disagree that similar parallels may be found during each period when anarchy is loosed upon the world?

Given the foregoing, do you wish to contemplate the assertions made in your post chronicled above?

You are of course free to act as you wish. But it must be plain to you that you stand to greatly diminish your own standing among the members of the bar.

Prost! or ваше здоровье! Your choice.

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 23 2022 10:49 utc | 105

Somehow the post numbers have incremented.
My
Posted by: Sushi | Sep 23 2022 10:49 utc | 105
now references:
Posted by: bevin | Sep 23 2022 3:26 utc | 88

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 23 2022 10:52 utc | 106

One Russian private company has reportedly applied for flights to Northern Cyprus.

Posted by: alaff | Sep 23 2022 11:02 utc | 107

Posted by: juliania | Sep 23 2022 4:56 utc | 96

Then I am above average, c1ue - even just above your cluster, although I'm not sure what the point to that is ... lesser or greater respect? ( Best not to ask.) We are those who have more time on our hands, though even so, with Socrates, we be not wealthy.

Gotta be greater respect! Yes, you are above average Juliania, and it has nothing to do with age. It's an evident fact every time you post something.

Special thanks for referencing Socrates' Apology in the last The MoA Week In Review - (Not Ukraine) OT 2022-152
@Posted by: juliania | Sep 22 2022 19:57 utc | 230

Socrates' opening statement includes this:

I will ask you then to assume with me, as I was saying, that my opponents are of two kinds - one recent, the other ancient; and I hope that you will see the propriety of my answering the latter first, for these accusations you heard long before the others, and much oftener .”

which I find to be analogous to Putin & Russia in regard to the USSR/Russia phobia that the West has generated over our lifetimes (and before, really).

Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 23 2022 12:04 utc | 108

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Sep 23 2022 4:36 utc | 94
Very good site linked there. Very clear about early treatment and how to go about it. Big thanks.

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 23 2022 10:49 utc | 105
Thanks for the soul-searching post.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 23 2022 12:06 utc | 109

waynorinorway

I'm losing the plot and not keeping up with the pace that these threads come and go.

Put in a reply to you, james and julianna back in I think the week in review thread.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 23 2022 12:58 utc | 110

Boeing knew after the first crash that a flight control system posed a safety issue, but assured the public that the 737 MAX airplane was "as safe as any that has ever flown the skies," the SEC said in announcing the settlement.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 23 2022 8:54 utc | 103

From what I'd read, some of Boeing's engineers knew about this as early as the design stage, but management proceeded nonetheless. The root cause evidently wasn't the flight control system, but the cascade of lengthening an old airframe, which made the plane heavier, which required a bigger engine, which had to be mounted further toward the front of the wing (so as not to scrape the ground), which altered the force on the wing, which necessitated a custom flight control system to neutralize that force. One kluge after another.

Posted by: David Levin | Sep 23 2022 13:25 utc | 111

@juliania #96
My point is that a pack of literal geriatrics isn't going to change society whatsoever.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 23 2022 13:53 utc | 112

@Tom_Q_Collins #98, 99

The natural gas generators that failed? One of the reasons is that they were new. These facilities were installed and operated differently than "normal" plants because they are being used to offset variability in solar PV and wind.

I have posted this many times - it is clear you don't bother to actually click through and learn anything:

Daily view of curtailments in Texas grid

Notice the large amount of natural gas variability: this is the new style plants turning off and on to offset incoming solar PV and wind generation during low demand periods (middle of the day).

As for your 2nd idiotic post: you clearly failed to read and/or comprehend again. I specifically noted that ERCOT DOES NOT normally own grid portions but had made an exception in this case.

Anyway, it is abundantly clear that you don't know shit and won't learn. Another Twitter plagiarist genius.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 23 2022 13:57 utc | 113

Another brilliant Baffler article: comparing the modern social media manager with the telegram girl in James' In The Cage

Ratting The Cage - Sasseen

Amusingly, the work I do is similar: less widespread but far, far deeper. Between deep digital forensics and MMO analysis of suspect IT to forensic accounting, I learn far more about my subject's lives than they do themselves.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 23 2022 14:03 utc | 114

The UK pound just dropped again this AM as predicted and detailed in a previous article.

This follow-up article on Britain's decline came out this morning and shows why the UK, thanks to their new PM, Liz Truss, is heading for disaster. But always more money for American wars and Ukie Nazis.

https://watchingromeburn.uk/news/liz-truss-and-britains-0-17-democracy-monocracy/

Posted by: Don Stevens | Sep 23 2022 14:06 utc | 115

Why do they target Tulsi Gabbard as their Enemy of The State?
Posted by: Kali El | Sep 22 2022 20:22 utc | 58

Interesting.

You are asking why an ethnic pacific islander. Born in American Samoa. Where 27% of the population live below the poverty line.

Moved to Hawaii at the age of two. Who is also a non-christian Hindu religious convert? Is an enemy of the state target.

In a country. That is awash in a whites-only corrupted Christianity bigot, racists, KKK trailer trash, and one-eyed trumpohilliacs.

The answer is staring in your face.

Truth is stranger than fiction- Mark Twain

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Sep 23 2022 14:50 utc | 116

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 23 2022 7:45 utc | 100

Actually, it was first noticed in Taiwan and Cuba.

A Cuban medical research team just happened to be in town.
(Deaths 8,530 or 754 per million population Cuba)
(Deaths 1 million plus or 3228 per million population USSA)
(Deaths 10,743 or 450 per million in population Taiwan)
Taiwan is a country speaking the same common Chinese language. Yet has deep extensive open extensive business/factory investments in mainland China. Worth trillions...

As for viruses, I take you have never ever suffered from the most common universal worldwide rhinovirus. Called the seasonal "common cold"!

Symptoms: sore throat, runny nose, coughing, sneezing, headaches, and body aches.

As far as seasonal pandemics go. The symptoms are mild. Rarely causes death from secondary infections.

However the great H1N1 Influenza pandemic of 1917-21. The point of origin was in the USSA. Was far more deadly. In a world with a population of one point five billion souls. The total number of victims of this particular virus. Was estimated at 500 million souls worldwide. Approximately one in seven succumbed to secondary infections and passed away. Quite sad really.

Post-1921, we now suffer from the annual seasonal flu variant.
One noted side effect of the annual flu jab. Is the reduced severity of the side effects. If one actually contracts a seasonal variant.

Question: Where can one find fact-based information? You based your claims on.

Sadly, "google scholar" shows no such records and/or peered reviewed papers available worldwide!

We live in an electronic world where anyone can create any fact-free theory of choice. Proof based on real facts from the real world of said theory is another matter! Hence the use of "Occam's Razor Test", is fully recommended.

Question more..............

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Sep 23 2022 16:09 utc | 117

Posted by: bevin | Sep 23 2022 3:26 utc | 88

Sad to see that people are jumping on you for your very reasonable comments.

On one hand, the freezing of truck protesters' financial assets by the Trudeau regime was heavy-handed and just plain wrong. On the other hand, the protesters frequently were disruptive, rude sphincters who harassed ordinary people who were just trying to go about their own business. Both things can be true. It did not help that the Ottawa police turned a blind eye to the latter, refusing to issue traffic/parking tickets or respond to noise complaints. So the government, somewhat schizophrenically, both encouraged and punished the protestors' behavior.

I understand and largely agree with people's distrust of and contempt for authority, but it is foolish to disregard (or worse, inadvertently promote) on this basis a medical crisis that has demonstrably shortened life expectancy in many countries, regardless of the origin of the virus.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Sep 23 2022 17:29 utc | 118

Great News!! "Russian Nuclear Reactor That Uses 'Innovative' Fuel Goes Into 'Full Power Mode'":

"On September 22, Unit 4 of the Beloyarsk Nuclear Power Plant in Russia reached 100 percent capacity for the first time.

"According to the Atomic Energy web portal, the entire active zone of the BN-800 fast breeder reactor at Unit 4 has been fully switched to mixed oxide fuel (or MOX fuel for short) made from plutonium dioxide, which is made from reprocessed fuel rods used in standard VVER pressurized water reactors, and depleted uranium oxide made from reprocessed byproducts of the uranium enrichment process.

"The use of MOX fuel essentially brings the entire Russian nuclear industry a step closer to a “new technological platform based on the closed nuclear fuel cycle,” drastically increasing the fuel base of the nuclear power generation sector and further minimizing radioactive waste, the portal suggests."

Given the focus on the current Oblast Vote thread, I doubt few will read about this excellent development. Rosatom's technicians are to be commended for reaching this step in their attempt to close the nuclear fuel cycle that will eliminate almost all hazardous waste from nuclear energy generation. And this comes at an opportune time as Africa's development can be aided greatly by the construction of plants capable of using MOX.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 23 2022 17:43 utc | 119

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 23 2022 17:43 utc | 119

That is great news and an excellent development. If my understanding is correct the world now has available a technology with the capacity to deliver electricity without the negative aspects of the toxic conventional fuel cycle. In other words we now have a reasonable prospect of addressing the key issue in global warming.

What is more interesting is the fact this technology may have negative effect on the RF economy which is presently highly dependent on FF exports. Russia is the state with the least incentive to advance such innovation. Kudos to them for recogizing the "greater good" and having confidence in their ability to transcend basic extractive industry.

Despite the promise of this innovation, I suspect the West will seek to sanction it and/or impede its commercialization. The world is FUBAR.

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 23 2022 18:15 utc | 120

WTFUD @209, which brings me to ask what is possibly a stupid question. Why no international observers in US elections?ⁿ

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Sep 23 2022 20:04 utc | 238 [at the "Historic Context Of The Referenda in Ukraine" thread]

In the 2020 US Presidential election, concerns expressed by Republican party observers were routinely ignored by precinct officials. Having international observers (assuming that they would have observed and documented some of those irregularities) would give such concerns greater publicity, which I rather doubt would be desired by the ruling political class of this country.

Posted by: David Levin | Sep 23 2022 20:45 utc | 121

waynorinorway @ weekinreview 108 and Peter AU there @ 110:

I'll say first that I apologize for taking this long, (stuff's bin happening!) but thanks Peter above for sending me back. Wow, such warm responses, thank you both so much!

I've always thought the early philosophers, historians, poets have the clarity of thought they have because they were given an earth of purer atmosphere than we have today -- so they were healthier in mind, stronger in heart. And in the Apology, Socrates speaks not just to his accusers (we don't hear much from them; it's left to our imagination) so the dialogue is close to being a hologram. Because he is addressing them, he's also addressing us, even though centuries and centuries ago. When the same sorts of things were going on then as are going on now.

Thanks to karlof1 above also - that is such important news on the reprocessing of spent uranium fuels - they are such a headache in all countries trying to cope with global warming and seeing the hazards of nuclear energy, its side effects and costs.

I'll do a second post, peter, because your story is perfectly in tune with my thoughts on Plato, so my next is a re-post with thanks of that. I was in Australia only once long ago, in Brisbane. My oldest son was two, and I have a photograph of him hugging a kangaroo he'd met in the park (fortunately not a joey).

Posted by: juliania | Sep 23 2022 21:13 utc | 122

Ursula von der Leyen threatening Italians should they not choose Ursula's preferred candidates. According to her, EU has "tools" at its disposal like in Hungary and Poland.

Probably her real issue is that not everyone (like, vast majority) want her employer, Klaus Schwab as their president.

https://twitter.com/RadioGenova/status/1573226656160161792

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 23 2022 21:35 utc | 123

Here is Peter's tale (mentioned in my post above):

The aboriginal people of the Kimberly... Back to the origins of human society. Before the time of ancient Rome, Greece, Mesopotamia. There was something an African leader said to Russia in the past month or so I may not have the exact wording but - "You treat us like men"

Derby races and the elders said I would never get Dougy back out of town. When we met he told me he was an alcoholic. Monday morning after the races I go into fuel up before loading supplies for the next muster and Dougy is there beside me. He was very worried I would head out without him. He said 'you are the first person to treat me as a man'. That for what I am, just an ordinary shitkicker ... I guess it really drove home to me the ongoing genocide of the culture of the aboriginal people here in Australia. Their social structure is tied intrinsically to their land.

How old cultures/civilizations are tied to their land...

At this stage Juliana I doubt if I could ever believe in a god, but the road of life - the road to Damascus - sure has a lot of confusing intersections.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 23 2022 11:34 ut?)

Yes, that occasion in Africa was a bear hug between Lavrov and his fellow diplomat there (Uganda?) And, yes, the aborigines tied to their land -- as here. A land which once spread so far...

So, really, Ukrainians too, of whatever cultural belief or affinity, need to be treated humanely, able to stay in or return to the land they love, if they can do so peacefully. Most, it seems to me, would choose to do that, stay where they have families and friends. That was what Putin was trying to make possible - while those on the other side did not. It doesn't just end with them, however that ends; it goes on. In all places.

Thank you, Peter.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 23 2022 21:35 utc | 124

Sushi @120--

If you can get to Rosatom's site when it's not being censored by Western entities, you'll discover they have lots of action happening in Africa, and Rosatom is far more than just nuclear power. I'm sure you'll be impressed with the wide scope of its business activities. Here's the most recent meeting between Putin and Rosatom CEO Alexei Likhachev. And since you'll likely find that quite interesting and valuable, here are the links to the other two meetings they've had this year, June 17 and May 19.

In case you or other readers want to know how to find these past meetings, at the Kremlin's Russian language website, click the Events tab then select search and type in the name of the corporation you want to read about Putin's meeting with its CEO. Of course, having a list of those corporations helps. This Wiki page has an excellent list to start with.

After reading several meetings, you'll get an idea how Russia's political-economy works. Putin's meetings on Economic Matters also provide learning opportunities. And that's really the only way to really learn how it works as there're no books on the subject.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 23 2022 22:48 utc | 125

Lot of (dis)info regarding Xi doing the rounds. Anyone got an update.

Posted by: Peter Piper | Sep 23 2022 23:16 utc | 126

karlof1@125, thank you. i've bookmarked the site. thank you also for the mox fuel, fabulous news. i suppose you know bt in case you don't vintage red is larchmonter's moniker on moa.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Sep 23 2022 23:33 utc | 127

Here's the most recent meeting between Putin and Rosatom CEO Alexei Likhachev.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 23 2022 22:48 utc | 125

Clarification: that meeting appears to be from August of 2021.

Posted by: David Levin | Sep 23 2022 23:56 utc | 128

emersonreturn @127--

Thanks for your reply. No, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for enlightening me!

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 23 2022 23:57 utc | 129

David Levin @128--

OUCH! Well, so it is. I clearly didn't pay enough attention while hurrying to post those links. The May 19 link is from 2022.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 24 2022 0:01 utc | 130

Posted by: David Levin | Sep 23 2022 23:56 utc | 128

Of the three meetings for which Karl gave links, the one of May 19 is apparently the only one to have taken place in 2022.

Posted by: David Levin | Sep 24 2022 0:04 utc | 131

fyi

hypocrisy is common in religion, and corruption common in politics, and hypocritical corruption and corrupt hypocrisy common to all US foreign relations


https://twitter.com/mideastXmidwest/status/1572607481259659269
Jonathan Guyer @mideastXmidwest

Biden says that United Nations Security Council members should refrain from use of the veto except in the case of rare situations.

Reminder: The US has vetoed more than 40 UN resolutions on Israel — about half the times the veto has been used.

Posted by: michaelj72 | Sep 24 2022 0:04 utc | 132

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 23 2022 10:49 utc | 105

"Do you claim to be unaware of what occurred in Europe in the run up to September 10th 1939?"

Just a minor point, but what in particular happened on the 10th? The 3rd of September is the date that sticks out in my mind. Could be my upbringing but I though the 3rd was important because that was the day Britain declared war on Germany.

Posted by: RTX | Sep 24 2022 0:13 utc | 133

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 23 2022 18:15 utc | 120

"If my understanding is correct the world now has available a technology with the capacity to deliver electricity without the negative aspects of the toxic conventional fuel cycle. In other words we now have a reasonable prospect of addressing the key issue in global warming."

Not likely it will get widely adopted in the West anytime soon. Not because it doesn't solve the problem, but because it does.


Posted by: RTX | Sep 24 2022 0:19 utc | 134

President Abbas at the UNGA:

https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/130977

Posted by: Paul GV | Sep 24 2022 0:32 utc | 135

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 23 2022 3:00 utc | 87

"They know that in order to get what they want they have to fool the common men and women to empower them to get what they want which often includes exploiting those self-same common men and women."

Which group do you think is easier to fool, if either?

Posted by: RTX | Sep 24 2022 0:39 utc | 136

Below are quotes from a ZH posting that expose some South Korea political opinion


South Korea's President Yoon Suk-yeol was caught in an embarrassing hot mic moment on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly meeting in New York this week. The incident happened immediately after a meeting with President Joe Biden at a conference for the Global Fund on Wednesday. He was heard referring to US lawmakers collectively as "f**kers" in Korean, and suggested that Biden is being humiliated:


"How could Biden not lose damn face if these f**kers do not pass it in Congress?" he said. Prior to his insulting remarks, Biden pledged $6 billion to fight HIV and tuberculosis. The aid would need the approval of Congress. “F**kers,” was the top trending topic on South Korean Twitter this Thursday.


Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 24 2022 1:09 utc | 137

Sushi Scorpion

Your discussions are somewhat reminiscent of the cafe's of early 1900's Europe. I don't really follow them but glance through them.
Ancient Persia, the orient, the Rus - Mackinder's heartland and the sea people. Anglo vs the Rus
The ancient tribal stuff now swathed in wrappings of sweet propaganda.

I wish I could write more and better. What is occurring today can only be viewed in that sort of historical context.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 24 2022 2:14 utc | 138

I do not know if this is bullshit but here it goes....I do not have time to pick thru this story
Is Xi Jinping under house arrest?


Posted by: circumspect | Sep 24 2022 3:16 utc | 139

Sarah Wagenknecht

Lasst uns Amerika wieder groß machen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y5j1EG1rb8

Posted by: denk | Sep 24 2022 3:31 utc | 140

Mr 10 Percent Goes to Washington

Biden Family Worked to Sell American Gas to China, GOP Lawmaker Says Citing Whistleblower

From 2017 to 2021, the Bidens promised business associates that Joe Biden would run for president in 2020 and those who worked with them from 2017 onward would “reap the rewards in a future Biden administration,” according to Comer’s recount of a whistleblower testimony to Oversight Committee Republicans.
SOURCE:
https://www.theepochtimes.com/biden-family-worked-to-sell-american-gas-to-china-gop-lawmaker-says-citing-whistleblower_4746788.html

Will likely get MSM coverage in 2025.

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 24 2022 3:49 utc | 141

Posted by: RTX | Sep 24 2022 0:13 utc | 133

Canada declared war on the 10th.

Re your other comment, I asserted the same. The West will either ignore or sanction despite the potential for RF technology to address climate concerns.

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 24 2022 3:54 utc | 142

Rumors of a coup in China against Xi Jinping shake the networks


This Friday rumors gained strength about the alleged arrest of President Xi Jinping after a coup in China. The versions could not be confirmed so far, but they were not denied by Beijing either. However, sources from the Argentine embassy in China categorically denied them.

On the other hand, the cancellation of 60 percent of the flights in the Asian power, as reported by the local travel platform Flight Master, increased the noise surrounding Xi’s alleged arrest.

One of the versions that have circulated in recent hours indicates that the plot would have been organized by special forces of the People’s Liberation Army that respond to General Li Qiaoming, in charge of the Northern Theater Command, one of the five of the Chinese Army, since September 2017 until this month. Li had been appointed a member of the 19th Central Committee of the Communist Party of China in October 2017.
SOURCE
https://chinamovie.space/rumors-of-a-coup-in-china-against-xi-jinping-shake-the-networks/

Story unsubstantiated at present. Source link provides further detail on military involvement and possible reasons.

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 24 2022 4:08 utc | 143

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 24 2022 3:54 utc | 142

"Canada declared war on the 10th."

Thanks Sushi. Yes, I think remember that. You're looking at it from the Canadian perspective. OK.

Posted by: RTX | Sep 24 2022 4:08 utc | 144

Below is a link to a posting at The Register about the Boeing MAX 737 debacle which has been covered here extensively

Boeing to pay SEC $200m to settle charges it misled investors over 737 MAX safety
24 comment bubble on white
Ex-CEO also on the hook for $1m after skipping over known software issues

The take away quote


The $200 million to the SEC, little more than an administrative expense compared to the $2.5 billion-plus Boeing has already had to pay in penalties and compensation, reflects statements made by the company regarding the 737 MAX's safety following the fatal crashes.

The SEC holds that, a month after the first crash of Lion Air Flight 610 off the coast of Indonesia in October 2018, Boeing issued a press release, approved by former CEO Dennis A Muilenburg, that "selectively highlighted certain facts from an official report of the Indonesian government suggesting that pilot error and poor aircraft maintenance contributed to the crash. The press release also gave assurances of the airplane's safety, failing to disclose that an internal safety review had determined that MCAS posed an ongoing 'airplane safety issue' and that Boeing had already begun redesigning MCAS to address that issue."

In other words, Boeing and Muilenburg knew that MCAS posed an ongoing safety issue, but assured the public that the 737 MAX airplane was "as safe as any airplane that has ever flown the skies."


Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 24 2022 4:56 utc | 145

c1ue totally ignores the main questions, as usual. Then c1ue engages in the same ad hominem that c1ue constantly bitches about in others. OK bro.

You didn't say one thing to my questions. Did you talk to Blevins personally? I literally dropped the initials of people in real grid cybersecurity. I did an internship at EPE as a student at UTEP (not a lot of fabs around there eh).

LOL. c1ue. LOL

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Sep 24 2022 6:43 utc | 146

c1ue should seriously start his own blog or podcast. Maybe both. I mean he's such a genius he never even needs to actually back anything up. Whoooo...maybe YouTube or TruthSocial.

Lol, what a troll. Method actor, but troll nonetheless.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Sep 24 2022 6:48 utc | 147

- Iranian President Ebrahim Raesi:

"America and Europe should know that burning a few garbage bins in Iran will not warm their upcoming winter"

https://twitter.com/Ofmamaha/status/1573196390238658560

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 24 2022 7:20 utc | 148

Overall volume in put options surged to highest level ever

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-23/spooked-traders-just-piled-into-stock-protection-at-record-rate

Posted by: too scents | Sep 24 2022 9:17 utc | 149

Re: President Xi

Sounds like the usual agitprop from Langley. As the 20th CPC Congress approaches expect more of the same. "Oh, my wig and whiskers! He's been serving since 2013 imagine that. Dictator for life!" Meanwhile, three generations have had Nancy Pelosi for their congresscritter...

Posted by: Jun | Sep 24 2022 9:32 utc | 150

Excellent article by Caitlin Johnstone on the increasing risk of war

https://caityjohnstone.medium.com/the-us-empire-is-accelerating-toward-global-conflict-on-two-fronts-9de00329bb92


Posted by: Sushi | Sep 24 2022 11:34 utc | 151

Wow, the Euro... It's like it's been literally put on a flat, smooth ice sheet, has been given a nudge and now it keeps sliding and sliding. Current rate to the USD is 0.9755!

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Sep 24 2022 11:44 utc | 152

@Tom_Q_Collins #146,147
Yes, in fact I talked to Blevins personally. And I'm meeting him in a couple of weeks in Austin.

Your "cybersecurity" people - they aren't grid people, nor am I impressed with your having been an intern. You clearly have zero idea of any basic grid concepts such as torque - which even an actuary has figured out. I majored as an electrical engineer from a literal top 3 engineering school in the United States - that's why I was on the Internet in 1987.

I am doing first hand work such as looking at the ERCOT Nodal ICCP Communication manual, not trying to pass off 2nd or 3rd hand-me-down information from people not even actually involved in the operations. Furthermore, since I actually do cybersecurity consulting including both reactive incident response and pro-active FAIR analysis - I know full well just how much (i.e. how little) that vast majority of cybersecurity people actually understand the companies' businesses and operations that they work in.

I answered your questions - which you clearly have not bothered to even read. You continue to respond with zero detail and thus zero credibility

This latest performance is on par with the previous: clearly you don't know shit and won't learn.
Keep on flaunting your Twitter expert opinions, yo.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 24 2022 12:07 utc | 153

Here is what looks like crap analysis

Typical Chinese Adult Now Richer Than Europeans, Credit Suisse wealth report finds - businessinsider

The fact that it is posted on businessinsider is already a big red flag.

But let's dig in deeper:

Although North America and Europe together account for 57% of total household wealth globally, China is squeezing out Europe in rankings of wealth per median adult.

...

It found that Chinese median wealth per adult, at $26,752, now outstrips Europe, where the average adult has a wealth of $26,690. The European figure takes into account the whole of the continent, which includes many less wealthy nations in its southern and eastern regions.

...

Global wealth increased by 9.8% in 2021 compared to the year before, reaching a total $463.6 trillion.

Here's the reason I think this is bullshit: the continent of Europe has roughly 1/2 the population of China. Assuming roughly equal percentage of adults, the implication is that Chinese collectively have twice the personal adult wealth of all of Europeans.

Seems highly unlikely.

2nd suspect area: the global wealth number.

China + Europe = 2 billion people, give or take.
2 billion times $26K is slightly more than 11% of the global wealth of $463 trillion.
Europe and China is only ~11% of global wealth?

Looks like there's no risk that my view of Business Insider being crap, will have to change any time soon.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 24 2022 12:20 utc | 154

Correction:

karlof1@125... i suppose you know bt in case you don't vintage red is larchmonter's moniker on moa.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Sep 23 2022 23:33 utc | 127

***

@emersonreturn, karlof1 and all—

I suppose I should be flattered as I've been reading larchmonter since 2014—total respect to him—but I am very definitely not larchmonter.

Posted by: Vintage Red | Sep 24 2022 15:03 utc | 155

Looks like there's no risk that my view of Business Insider being crap, will have to change any time soon.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 24 2022 12:20 utc | 154

I downloaded the Credit Swisse wealth report and found its definition of "wealth":

Net worth or “wealth” is defined as the value of financial assets plus real assets (principally housing) owned by households, minus their debts.

Suppose that at the moment we begin to eavesdrop on two people, they have the same wealth by this definition, equivalent revenue and cost streams, and a one-week supply of food. Over the next month, the first buys and consumes food, while the other doesn't buy any food. Result: the second person is deemed wealthier, despite having starved to death.

I made this example extreme to illustrate the fallaciousness of equating wealth with well-being. Unsurprisingly, Credit Swisse's business is wealth management.

However, the report isn't totally useless: it contains some stunning photography.

Posted by: David Levin | Sep 24 2022 16:45 utc | 156

What seems to me a good article, by Lily Lynch on the Swedish political scene might read like rubbish to an actual Swede. In other news it looks like Carl Bildt is back. Isn't that fun?

"...With fewer traditional channels of communication open, the Sweden Democrats turned to then-nascent social media platforms. A few years after Akesson became leader, the Sweden Democrats had a Facebook presence more than eight times the size of the Social Democrats. Ahead of this month’s election, a massive online troll army, reportedly funded by the party’s communications office, helped shape the online discourse on immigration and crime...

"...The Sweden Democrats have also started to echo mainstream parties’ support for membership in ‘globalist’ institutions like NATO. In 2016, when the Rikstag voted on whether to allow NATO forces to be stationed on Swedish territory, the Sweden Democrats were expected to join the Left Party in their bid to delay signing of the agreement pending a further review. But at the last hour, they decided to back closer military cooperation with the alliance, allowing the vote to pass with a broad majority. Then, in April, the party went so far as to complain that the Social Democrats’ timetable for joining NATO was ‘far too slow’. Now, former Prime Minister and uber-Atlanticist Carl Bildt has been floated as a potential foreign minister in the new government. How the Sweden Democrats will retain their anti-establishment, anti-globalist bonafides while working with a man who once rhapsodized about the ‘New World Order’ before his sponsors in Washington, is anyone’s guess.."

https://newleftreview.org/sidecar/posts/swedens-pariahs?pc=1472

Posted by: bevin | Sep 24 2022 17:15 utc | 157

In other news.

The near hysterical trumpophilliac fan club members continue to rebroadcast the carefully fed nonsense from the self-proclaimed MAGA MESSIAH DJT.

The two hundred and fifty million dollar question? Will he pay in full? Will the IRS send a tax audit letter to DJT?

The answer is blowing in the wind!

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Sep 24 2022 17:50 utc | 158

vintage red, karlof, (all) my bad.... i skimmed larchmonter445 sharing his monikers, & in the middle of the night realized my error & that was red ryder. thank you vintage red for setting me straight & your kind reply. if i haven't utterly blown my creditability i want to share with karlof (as well as you vintage red if you are able to forgive my regrettably blurred memory) a new or expanded saker site; hosted by amarynth: https://thesakeris.global

karlof1, amarynth like you posts most of the speeches by putin/shoigu/lavrov, presently she's eagerly awaiting lavrov's unga. as an added treat today she has posted ralph nader interviewing michael hudson. she also posts pepe, & this morning has his take on the baby bears coming home to mama. as the site is new very few have it on their radar so the comments are sparse bt i think that you, karlof, will find the content very much to your liking. vintage red, as i've confused you so ashamedly with larch, i can only hope if you like moa as well as karlof & larchmonter445 that you too will thoroughly enjoy how fully amaranth works to keep us informed. thank you. larchmonter445 if you peruse this thread, please forgive me.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Sep 24 2022 18:08 utc | 159

@David Levin #156
There are many angles to attack this report; what you indirectly allude to is cost of living. I don't think anyone will disagree that cost of living in China is far, far lower than in Europe - hence equivalent "wealth" means the "average" Chinese is far wealthier than the European counterpart.

Then there's the "average" - average means $5 billion distributed in the form of $3B to 10 families and $2B to 699,999,929 other people is very different than $10B distributed, relatively evenly, to 1.4 million people.

But the original point is that this report doesn't pass the most basic smell test in 2 major points, and the uncritical reporting of it by Business Insider is exactly the type of junk I expect from that organization.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 24 2022 19:03 utc | 160

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/09/michael-hudson-discusses-debt-financial-surveillance-the-fed-and-more-with-ralph-nader.html

good discussion, I guess the link belongs here.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 24 2022 21:17 utc | 161

@161 pretzelattack | Sep 24 2022 21:17 utc

There's a lot of Michael Hudson going around, and I have to say I've only consumed a smallish portion of what's on offer - but personally I never heard anyone ask Hudson the kind of questions that Ralph Nader is asking in that interview.

It's a brilliant use of a brilliant resource.

I'm only one-third through it yet, so in hopes of not jumping the gun...many thanks for that link. It's a great discussion.

~~

ps..apologies if this is old hat to others.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 24 2022 22:57 utc | 162

@ pretzelattack | Sep 24 2022 21:17 utc | 161 with the nakedcapitalism link to the Ralph Nader/Michael Hudson interview

Here is the more direct linl
https://www.ralphnaderradiohour.com/the-federal-reserve-and-debt/

Thanks for that. I think the the definition of terms part was really good and suggest other listen/read the interchange.....Michael Hudson is a treasure to humanity, IMO

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 24 2022 23:08 utc | 163

The bat soup, pangolins, wet market are all 100% innocent.

SARS-CoV-2 was gain of function created by Dr Peter Daszak of EcoHealth in New York, with collaboration by Wuhan Institute Virology (just few 100 metres from Wet Market) and input from Dr Ralph Baric of Uni North Carolina. Funding from NIAID of Dr Fauci.

The virus was created by 2015.

Courageous whistleblower scientist and Vice President of EcoHealth, Dr Andrew Huff. Listen the full hour, last 15’ especially:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6NoCwQqqh44&feature=youtu.be

The WHO is complicit in the coverup by appointing Daszak to head the pandemic origin investigation. And Fauci is up to his neck in the coverup as Rand Paul has highlighted. Fauci has outright lied to Congress.

With a Republican Congress, Fauci will be in prison where he belongs.

Posted by: PJB | Sep 24 2022 23:13 utc | 164

@psychohistorian | Sep 24 2022 23:08 utc | 163,

Thanks a lot for the direct link.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Sep 24 2022 23:25 utc | 165

Perhaps a clueless person was trying to tell us all a very sad tale from the state of Texas.

* One of the wastes of large volumes of toxic long-term groundwater polluting fossil diesel fuel. By all Gas-frackers!+
* One of greed for profits customers are always last!
* An isolated from the national grid. An aged undermaintained electrical distribution system!
* One of overselling!
* Lack of maintenance, and gas storage facilities!
* Lack of boost gas pump stations to service high volume users!
* Leaky methane carbon pollution gas pipelines, and production terminals!
* Lack of strong regulations to protect the end users!
* Climate change adverse weather conditions!
* Elected Republican people's representatives protect the oil and gas fracking industries and not the people! A nice evil conflict of interest.
* One of paid political science trash hack shill writers. To sell the usual GOP "Standard Operating Procedure of Denial(SOP)"! Of blaming the other guy for their own "stupid is as stupid does behavior"!
Greed is good. -Gordon Gecko

Mix all of the factors together. The end result is "The Great Texas Winter Energy Crisis of 2021". A tale of a preventable tragedy. Caused by a complete lack of future "What If" disaster planning.

Lest we forget. In the Union of the Soviet States of AmeriKa. Or the greatest prison state in the world. The entire country relies on cheap diesel fuel to transport people, goods, and food! To feed the nation's rich and poor alike.
+ The USSA's national "Great Diesel Fuel Shortage Crisis of 2022".

Very tragic tale indeed.

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Sep 25 2022 1:05 utc | 166

Below are quotes from the Nader/Hudson interview that I think is valuable about the jargon we use here at MoA


Ralph Nadder: Now, I've read interviews of you, Michael Hudson. Let me tell you, I'm a patient reader. You believe in massive sequential reasoning lathered by facts. And the more sequential, the more you lose the audience and they can't follow you. So I'm going to put a question to you that probably no one has put to you. Drop the use of the word neoliberalism, which progressives always use, including Chris Hedges. And I say, Chris, do you know anybody around the country who works with their hands or their computers, who know what neoliberalism means? In one of your interviews, you gave numerous definitions, which were hard to remember. What you really mean by neoliberalism is corporate domination of our political economy from A to Z. I know
you can spell it out. How are you going to overcome the communication problem? Progressive economists don't use simple statements as what they're for. They don't say, "We're for taxing the rich and the corporations." They say, "We're for fair taxation." They use the word providers for the drug companies and health insurance companies, as if they're philanthropic organizations instead of sellers, not to mention gougers. They use the words white-collar crime instead of corporate crime. How do you overcome this? This is a tough question for you to ask. If you were
to counteract the Republican agenda that I just mentioned and compress it the way they do and make it understandable and motivational for the workers, how would you do it?

Michael Hudson: Well, I think you’ve caught me. I'm a hopeless academic. And the fact that I talk largely to other academics or to people who are working in the field. So you're right, it's corporate. I'm not sure why you call this Republican. It's bipartisan. It's the Democrats. What you've described as the Republican program is everything President Biden believes in. If the Democratic…

Ralph Nader: But the Republicans hijack better than the Democrats. They hijacked free trade,went against corporate—they've hijacked patriotism. They’ve hijacked the Bible. They hijackedthe flag. They hijack everything. And so they blur that distinction.

Michael Hudson: Well, blurring is part of why I use a jargon word. And jargon is used because it is technical. There's one reason that I hesitate to use the word corporate, because there are two kinds of corporations, because there are two kinds of economies. If you say corporate, most people at least think of corporations that manufacture things. They may be monopolies, but they still manufacture. But the neoliberalism means the financial corporations. And I want to focus really on the fact that, where the financial line, which America has been following since the
1980s, the Reagan and Thatcher line, has been not an industrial corporate line. We
deindustrialized. It is corporate, but it's corporate financial that is shrinking the economy. At least the idea of industrial corporations was when they make a profit, they reinvest it in making even more companies and selling even more, and at least you get an expanding economy. I'm trying to explain why the American economy is shrinking and not expanding.

Ralph Nader: Because it's making money from money from money? Is that what you call
financialization? It doesn't produce anything real?

Michael Hudson: Well, not only making money from money, it's making money by loading the economy down with debt. All money is a form of debt on the other side of the balance sheet. And I know you're going to say, once I say balance sheets, people's eyes glaze over, because thinking in terms of balance sheets, one person's saving is another person's debt. And that means one person's debt is another person's saving. I'm trying to deal with how can the American economy cope with the fact that there’s so much money from debt, as you began this show by mentioning, the only way you can write down the debt is to write down somebody else's savings, and those savings are the savings of the 10%. Maybe we can figure out a new vocabulary to use for this, because you're right, the vocabulary shapes how people think about problems, and I haven't invented new terms, but maybe we can figure out something to distinguish the really predatory financial sector from the equally predatory corporate sector, but they're predatory in different ways.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 25 2022 2:44 utc | 167

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 25 2022 2:44 utc | 166

I'm still at the stage of trying to grasp some of the basic concepts, how so much of the US economy is based on debt (and it's part of GDP???, my mind boggles at that concept). Nader tries to make this into a republican vs democrat issue, and I like the way Hudson avoids that.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 25 2022 3:01 utc | 168

the vocabulary shapes how people think about problems

There is the key right there.

Irrespective what the 'problem' might be. It's our default susceptibility to 'propaganda, spin and sophistry ....'to narrative and story telling, and the power of Metaphors and how our minds work.

"So, are you for or against the Presidents new Tax Relief program?"

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 25 2022 3:06 utc | 169

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-century-of-the-self/

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 25 2022 3:07 utc | 170

@ pretzelattack with the Nader/Hudson follow up

To me it keeps coming back to my One Note Samba about public/private finance which Hudson does a good job of contextualizing in the interview....yeah,
reality = top/bottom
manufactured myth = left/right

When you have other than sovereign nations running the tools of finance they bias the "profit" away from the public and towards an elite. That is what needs to end. By eliminating private finance humanity also eliminates the social motivations of cut throat competition and replaces that narrative with win-win cooperation and multi-polar dispute and conflict management.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 25 2022 3:22 utc | 171

@170 psychohistorian | Sep 25 2022 3:22 utc - "eliminating private finance humanity also eliminates the social motivations of cut throat competition and replaces that narrative with win-win cooperation and multi-polar..."

Agreed. And here I turn to a theory of revolution that says you don't overthrow a thing directly, but rather you build its replacement and get it ready to take the place of the old thing. And perhaps the old thing will not fall while it leaves a vacuum, but may the more easily fall as the surrounding environment sees an alternative available...

So we don't try to take down the private finance (thankfully - because what a task that would be, and no one knows how to do that anyway, short of the most violent and extreme measures), instead we build other systems built on better principles, in the knowledge that half the battle is won already, simply by doing that.

~~

And Nader, I think, is earnestly trying to build that alternative, and to the point of challenging Hudson to refine his paragraphs into sound bites that people can build concepts and systems out of.

We're getting there. The task is to create the bricks, and to build the structures.

I think when you, my friend, rail against private finance - if I may say this in a friendly way - the audience's eyes glaze over in the same way Nader says Hudson's audiences react.

But with solutions, now, with viable alternatives...these are the challenges for us. This is where our lobbying should focus, on viable alternatives. This is the breeding ground of a better future.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 25 2022 6:20 utc | 172

@ Grieved | Sep 25 2022 6:20 utc | 171 who wrote
"
I think when you, my friend, rail against private finance - if I may say this in a friendly way - the audience's eyes glaze over in the same way Nader says Hudson's audiences react.
"

I know that but challenge you to help me expand the One Note Samba to have a few more notes.

I also challenge you and others to help me explain how important the One Note (Public/Private finance) is as part of our form of social organization. The social structure implications of private finance instantiate the class system and permeates all the organizations and structures.

Without China providing the example that Michael Hudson and I use as the alternative form of social organization, where would we be?

The last defense I have of my One Note Samba is that if I were to lead a (r)evolution in our world I would make that our one demand and expect the implications of that one change to be sufficient to better our world. Once you start making your demands more complex, you lose your effectiveness exponentially, IMO.

Thanks for the repartee

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 25 2022 6:50 utc | 173

Interesting reading:

A tribute to outstanding journalist Peter Pringle, who has received a government apology relating to an article he wrote 50 years ago. With some reflections on the question of Irish unity and much more,


http://cometherevolution.com.au/peter-pringle-shows-power-investigative-journalism/

Posted by: Paul GV | Sep 25 2022 7:18 utc | 174

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 23 2022 10:49 utc | 105

So the world is a basket case, don't ask me to make a long list, we all know.

Now I know who to blame for it all .......bevin.

Posted by: Paul GV | Sep 25 2022 7:26 utc | 175

@ psychohistorian # 172

"I know that but challenge you to help me expand the One Note Samba to have a few more notes.

I also challenge you and others to help me explain how important the One Note (Public/Private finance) is as part of our form of social organization. The social structure implications of private finance instantiate the class system and permeates all the organizations and structures.

Without China providing the example that Michael Hudson and I use as the alternative form of social organization, where would we be?"

I've agreed with your premise that much of our problem is the federal reserve and they're private banking. I know zip about setting up a public bank, however is that a possibility in your state, or any others? I know i've read you discus it before, but forget the details?

Let's just say hypothetically public banking in the usa is doable if proper financing is in order, wouldn't financial backing for said public bank be China's trillions in US treasuries they're trying to part with slowly, perhaps this might be a way of 'legally' speeding that process up thru american 'proxies' founding a public bank in the usa with actual interest rates and very competitive loans?

Keeping it all legal might be the hardest part, but look who'd be getting conned, at their own game.

Pipe dream right?

Posted by: aye, myself & me | Sep 25 2022 8:00 utc | 176

«in terms of balance sheets, one person's saving is another person's debt. And that means one person's debt is another person's saving. [...] the only way you can write down the debt is to write down somebody else's savings»

That's not quite right in substantial terms, only in formal terms, and I am surprised that M Hudson forgets the case of banks: when as bank makes a loan, it creates on the balance sheet both a an asset (the future lean repayment) and a liability (the loan payment). It does not actually take anybody's saving and give them to the borrower, it is just a monetary, not a credit, operation.
After a bank makes a loan the creditors (depositors) don't have any less money in their accounts, but the debtors (borrowers) have more money to spend in their accounts.

So in theory cancelling *bank* debt just requires cancelling the liability side too, and this is pretty much what has been done for Wall Street and the City and other financial TBTF companies. This is inflationary because it makes the monetary operation permanent, and that may be compensated for by increasing taxation, for example taxing the bank creditors (depositors), which is what is called a "bail-in".

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 25 2022 10:06 utc | 177

Barflies may find this interesting.

"In Vienna, China’s permanent mission to the United Nations has been rather exercised of late. Members of the mission have been particularly irate with the International Atomic Energy Agency and its Director General, Rafael Grossi, who addressed the IAEA’s Board of Governors on September 12.

Grossi was building on a confidential report by the IAEA which had been circulated the previous week concerning the role of nuclear propulsion technology for submarines to be supplied to Australia under the AUKUS security pact.

When the AUKUS announcement was made in September last year, its significance shook security establishments in the Indo-Pacific. It was also no less remarkable, and troubling, for signalling the transfer of otherwise rationed nuclear technology to a third country. ....."

https://popularresistance.org/back-door-proliferation/

Posted by: Paul GV | Sep 25 2022 10:46 utc | 178

@ Blissex | Sep 25 2022 10:06 utc | 176

Stop comparing chattel and real property.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 25 2022 11:25 utc | 179

@ aye, myself & me | Sep 25 2022 8:00 utc | 176 with the response and questions...thanks for the follow up

In the US, North Dakota has a state bank (for over 100 years) and other states are making moves in that direction...not a pipe dream

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 25 2022 14:43 utc | 180

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 25 2022 10:06 utc | 176

when as bank makes a loan, it creates on the balance sheet both a an asset (the future lean repayment) and a liability (the loan payment). It does not actually take anybody's saving and give them to the borrower, it is just a monetary, not a credit, operation.
After a bank makes a loan the creditors (depositors) don't have any less money in their accounts, but the debtors (borrowers) have more money to spend in their accounts.

So in theory cancelling *bank* debt just requires cancelling the liability side too...
______________________________________________________________________
The "liability side" are deposits. Deposits are what Hudson is calling savings and Hudson is correct that to cancel the loan would mean cancelling the savings(deposits) of somebody. When loans are created deposits are created and when loans are extinguished an equal amount of deposits are extinguished. That's how the accounting system works.

It is unlikely the deposits that were created from a bank loan are sitting in the borrowers bank account. Typically a borrower immediately spends what was borrowed so any bank liability (deposits) that gets cancelled will have to come from someone other than the borrower.

Hudson's flawed assumption is that the wealthy primarily store their wealth as bank deposits so the wealthy would be the savers that would take the hit from loan cancellation.

Another fallacy that Hudson assumes is that bank loans are a burden on those who receive them. The opposite is the truth. It is those who are denied bank credit who are the most deprived. It is estimated that 20% of US households who don't have access to bank services must rely on payday loans, Auto title loans, money orders, check cashing services and pawn shop loans for their banking needs. Those are the people that Hudson should be targeting for debt relief.

The way the economy is structured access to bank credit is the primary way people can economically advance.
It is the lowest classes that are denied bank credit and that is the primary reason they and their offspring remain in the lowest class.


Posted by: jinn | Sep 25 2022 16:27 utc | 181

@181 jinn | Sep 25 2022 16:27 utc

Yes. Someone in the world once said something like: "The poor don't want sympathy; they want capital."

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 26 2022 2:18 utc | 182

@182 more...

And I suppose, to your challenge, psychohistorian, that is perhaps the central theme of the alternative: getting capital to those who need it, without the current surcharge that breaks them in the making of their lives.

The goal, in the framework I cited, becomes not to overthrow the old system of private finance but to provide an alternative. I don't think we'd have to do much selling to move interest-free loans. The concept takes almost no understanding.

The current system holds a virtual monopoly on money, and charges exorbitant profits for access to it. What is required is a competitor, with a cheaper product of equivalent utility.

I don't know where the capital comes from, but it could even be private if it charged no interest, I think.

~~

If the mob could rally at the barricades calling for interest-free loans, that would be the end of partisan fragmentation.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 26 2022 2:29 utc | 183


Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 25 2022 14:43 utc | 180

"In the US, North Dakota has a state bank (for over 100 years) and other states are making moves in that direction...not a pipe dream"

I agree that portion is not a pipe dream, but imo we need public banking everywhere, now, not years down the road. Hardly anyone lives in N. Dakota relative to the rest of the US, so it would help public banking immensely if there was at least one banking outlet in every state nationwide. (a nationwide bank) That would be possible, since the repeal of Glass-Steagal, wouldn't it? Such a venture would need a lot of investment, of course, which is where the pipe dream comes in with China's seemingly unlimited US treasuries. (and somehow injecting those treasuries into backing the nationwide public banks.)

Questions for you psychohistorian, if one had their funds in public banking and private banking drops the us dollar in favor of a lesser valued 'amero'. Would it matter to individual depositors which kind of bank their former dollars were deposited? & Could a large enough public banking system forestall, or stop the private bankers from switching to a future amero?

Posted by: aye, myself & me | Sep 26 2022 3:13 utc | 184

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 26 2022 2:18 utc | 182

"Yes. Someone in the world once said something like: "The poor don't want sympathy; they want capital.""

Nowadays that might be changed to the Jan. 6th citizens want our sympathy after wants for capitol?

But i'd ask you also Grieved, whether the off chance of China investing in a nationwide public bank here wouldn't be a joyous fit of irony?

Posted by: aye, myself & me | Sep 26 2022 3:25 utc | 185

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