Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 20, 2022
On The Upcoming Putin Speech And Announcements

Moscow has made a decision how to proceed in the proxy war with NATO in the Ukraine.

We do not yet know what the decision is.

The President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin will hold a TV speech at 8 pm Moscow time (17:00 UTC) followed by an announcement by Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

In July Putin has held a press conference or speech where he said with regards to Ukraine something like: "We haven't even started yet."

It may be that Russia will do that now.

That a decision had been made was noticeable.

Yesterday the parliaments of the Luhansk and Donetz People's Republics suddenly requested their government to immediately launch referendums about the republics accession to the Russian Federation. Today Denis Pushilin, the head of of the DNR government, announced that a referendum will be held on September 23 to 27.

Also yesterday the Russian parliament introduced amendments to the Russian Criminal Code which will increase the prison penalties for 'voluntary surrender', 'looting', 'non-fulfillment of military orders' during a time of mobilization, martial law and war. Companies who reject to produce for the military will also be penalized. The amendments passed their second reading in parliament today and will become law after a third reading.

If the LNR and DPR vote to become part of Russia, and if Russia accepts it, any attack of them will be an act of war against Russia. The 'Special Military Operation', which Russia is currently proceeding with, would thus change into something way more serious. Russia could declare the conflict to be a war. It could then use conscripts in war functions, mobilize reserves and use its full arsenal against the Ukraine. Potentially also against those who support it with weapons and other war material.

I find this whole seemingly hasty process atypical for Putin's usual way.

My hunch is that Russia received information over some weapon systems the U.S. is secretly providing to the Ukraine. This could be missiles with several hundred kilometer range or other types of weapons that could seriously threaten Russia's towns and cities.

If so, Russia has to do something now to end the war before its becomes more than a nuisance for Russia and its people. Ending means of course by winning it.

Training up a mobilization force takes about three months. It would put it on the front in the mid of winter, a season during which Russian forces can operate quite well.

Comments

Opport Knocks | Sep 20 2022 19:25 utc | 85–
On the visa issue, I missed Zakharova’s briefing on the 15th where this Q&A exchange occurred:

Question: Which part of the Russian delegation to the UN General Assembly of the United States refused to issue visas and why? Will Moscow somehow react to the fact of non-issuance of visas? Are there any restrictions on movement in New York for members of the Russian delegation?
Maria Zakharova: Given that Sergey Lavrov was granted a visa, I can say that the best part of the delegation. Many members of the Russian delegation have not been issued visas. Many applications are still in the process of being processed by the U.S. Embassy in Moscow. We look forward to the timely and unhindered issuance of US visas to all Russian delegates and accompanying persons. This is not a cheerful company of friends, but experts, diplomats, specialists, technical personnel. People working to ensure the participation of the official delegation and further in the directions.
Official refusals to issue visas to members of the delegation have not yet been. The passports of delegates who had not yet received visas were not returned by the American side. We continue to defend Russia’s position on the visa issue within the framework of the UN General Assembly Committee on Relations with the Host Country.
With regard to travel restrictions in New York, there was no such information.
The question of logistics remains open. How will the delegation arrive there, given the restrictions illegally imposed by the United States on Russian transport companies.

Again, the Outlaw US Empire is in violation of its treaty responsibilities as there’s much more to the whole arrangement than just the visas, which are the most visible problem.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2022 20:06 utc | 101

No one is going to buy it, and Putin cancelling his presser indicates not everyone internally is buying it either.
Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 20 2022 19:55 utc | 98

Good to know. Please do keep us updated with your latest opinions as soon as the BBC tells you what they are.

Posted by: ZX | Sep 20 2022 20:07 utc | 102

Paulcraigroberts.org said early on in the conflict that Russia has 10 million trained reservists and friend China 50 million. These figures seem high any thoughts?

Posted by: Ken B | Sep 20 2022 20:08 utc | 103

Karlov1@37 correct. Tank commander is usually an E-5. Used to be E-6. Rank comes fast in armor units.

Posted by: Leroy | Sep 20 2022 20:09 utc | 104

President, ladies and gentlemen
Dear colleagues , this 24th of September 2022 will remain in our memories as a day we will all remember, we will say
“ I know exactly where I was when I first heard the news of the war in Ukraine and saw the first pictures of it”
https://youtu.be/N6SZV9yQpIM
Speech in German with English subtitles.
Posted by: Down South | Sep 20 2022 19:23 utc | 82
The guy had a brain fart and misspoke. He meant February 24th.
I can’t believe all the people that have fallen for this.

Posted by: Michigan Dude | Sep 20 2022 20:09 utc | 105

@98,
but then every post-maidan ‘national’ election, while ostensibly electing the government of the pre-maidan territory of the former state of Ukraine (including the republics in the east and Crimea), excluded large territories with millions of people.
Not to mention millions of refugees fled to Russia.
Not to mention Brownshirts-like terror (https://medium.com/@Hromadske/ukrainians-throw-their-politicians-in-trash-bins-seriously-e398b8f306e4)
Hey, what’s good for the goose…

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Sep 20 2022 20:13 utc | 106

Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 20 2022 19:55 utc | 98
You are utterly desperate to see these referenda not happen as your entire delusions will come crashing down with them . It means the end of the so called Ukraine.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 20 2022 20:17 utc | 107

fyi
Putin’s announcement/speech supposedly delayed until Sept 21, tomorrow, 9-10 AM.
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1572284354537168896
Dmitri @wartranslated
Russian Senator Olga Kovitidi says “Kyiv attacks after the declaration of results of the referendums will be considered aggression against Russia”
AND
https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1572314547545083905
Faytuks News Δ @Faytuks
Chechnya leader Kadyrov: “We are moving on to a new tactic of a special operation against the Ukronazis. We are not going to mess with them anymore… The enemy will soon face the most difficult consequences of a new retaliation plan”, http://Mn.ru reports
“All our previous actions will now seem like childish pranks to them.”

Posted by: michaelj72 | Sep 20 2022 20:17 utc | 108

On the delay of Putin’s speech, as I noted @21 above, Putin had a very full schedule today as the Kremlin website notes with six different events. Also, Biden’s UNGA speech was set-back a full day, which as some have noted probably had something to do with the delay as Putin would likely rebut Biden’s lies. Plus, if it is indeed the major address I alluded to in my comment @21, then Putin would want to give it at a much earlier hour.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2022 20:18 utc | 109

@
Seems like the Putin speech will not happen or come much later than announced:
RT has deleted its tweet saying that Putin would address the nation at 20:00PM Moscow time
Posted by: b | Sep 20 2022 18:34 utc | 61
Nothing says you mean business like making an announcement, and then cancelling what you just announced…
And yeah, seems like my last comment deleted?? If so, why??

Posted by: Et Tu | Sep 20 2022 20:18 utc | 110

Leroy @105–
Thanks for your reply and confirmation.
/////
Seems the EU/NATO-types can’t get their accusations straight. Earlier a NATO man said NATO wasn’t at war with Russia. Now RT reports “Putin at war with all of EU–Spanish PM.” But not Hungary. The fact that the imbecile has my last name infuriates me, but that’s out of my control. The RT article opens:
“Russia is not fighting just Ukraine, but the entire European Union, Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez proclaimed in an interview with Politico on Tuesday. He added that Moscow’s military operation in Ukraine is failing and has only managed to make the EU stronger.
“Speaking ahead of the United Nations General Assembly in New York, the Spanish premier stated that Russian President Vladimir Putin was using ‘energy as a war tool,’ because he is ‘threatened by the EU’s Values,’ Politico reports.”
The man is delusional to say the least and will probably get patted on the head by Biden for being such a good chihuahua. Sorry you have to suffer under that man, Paco and others in Spain.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2022 20:29 utc | 111

Et Tu @111–
You posted it on the other thread!!!!!!!!

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2022 20:32 utc | 112

@101 Opport Knocks
I was given to understand that the referendum would allow for mail in and internet voting – despite mail services being patchy in a conflict zone and internet services being prone to outages. Come to think of it, the amount of actual people is going to be patchy in places too, given the millions who have sought shelter elsewhere.
I am sure there will be nothing untoward going on with this vote, though.

Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 20 2022 20:33 utc | 113

Did you see the hysterical Biden interview on 60 Minutes about nuclear weapons, where the interviewer asked would happen in Putin used nukes. Biden replied “don’t… don’t…”. That’s some real drama crap for the American telly.
To be honest, I wouldn’t be surprised if Nato desperation is high enough they are the ones planning to nuke something in Ukraine in the hopes of getting away and managing to pin it on ‘Putin’. They usually tell their plans through stuff like this.
We need just one more massive slaughter since Ze is now mustering “everything’s he got and all reserves of Kiev”. That could be the ticket.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 20 2022 20:39 utc | 114

Sputnik Serbia just announced that Putin will speak tomorrow (Wednesday) at 08:00 and Shoigu at 08:30 (it seems Moscow time)

Posted by: ldragon | Sep 20 2022 20:41 utc | 115

This Slow Moving Offensive can’t go on like this. Something cataclysmic will happen.

Posted by: quasi_verbatim | Sep 20 2022 20:41 utc | 116

The key question is just how long the more than 98% Christian Ukrainians are willing to die for the Jukranian government American neocons installed. Probably until Zelensky fails to keep a high enough level of Western support. Zelensky truly is riding on the back of a tiger, in case there wasn’t enough excitement.

Posted by: Thomas Lipscomb | Sep 20 2022 20:42 utc | 117

MoA: “I find this whole seemingly hasty process atypical for Putin’s usual way.”
No, this is very typical. Entry into Syria war in 2015 and beginning of SMO followed exact same pattern.

Posted by: Ron L. | Sep 20 2022 20:42 utc | 118

@ : karlof1 | Sep 20 2022 20:06 utc | 102
They just shouldn’t go. The UN is dead. It was a great idea. But, now it’s dead.
BRICS and SCO should stand up a new institution.

Posted by: dfg | Sep 20 2022 20:44 utc | 119

@108 The Toms will have absolutely no problem with the referendum result. They will simply say it was rigged, people voted at gunpoint and it won’t be recognized by the International Community anyway. Same old story.

Posted by: dh | Sep 20 2022 20:44 utc | 120

@Et Tu @111–
You posted it on the other thread!!!!!!!!
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2022 20:32 utc | 113
LMFAO ok must be time for bed then, i’m an idiot. F.
That makes much more sense now… i didn’t think it seemed too controversial, though quite indicative of my currently cynical attitude towards both sides kinda state of mind 🙁 ):

Posted by: Et Tu | Sep 20 2022 20:44 utc | 121

From Twitter:

Citing two sources, @ForbesRussia says Putin’s pre-recorded address will be aired when the country’s “Far East wakes up.” Kremlin pool journalist Dmitry Smirnov says the address will be at 8am Moscow time — The Guardian correspondent

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Sep 20 2022 20:44 utc | 122

OIL sanctions fail:
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/russian-crude-countries-china-eu-ban-india-europe-sanctions-oil-2022-9
It looks like the only people the neocons fooled this time is themselves.

Posted by: Paul GV | Sep 20 2022 20:48 utc | 123

Ukraine has a lot of experience with overruling referendums. Just google “krim referendum 1994” for examples.

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 20 2022 20:48 utc | 124

Immediately after SCO Patrushev pays a two-day visit to China for additional security talks at Fuzhou, which is just across the straits from Taiwan. RT reports the following:

Moscow and Beijing “are looking to build a more just world order” and welcome the growing number of countries that also “choose the path of free, sovereign development based on their own identity and traditions,” Patrushev pointed out.
They are being “opposed by the political elites of the collective West that seek to impose their own bogus values” on other nations, he added.
The rapprochement between Russia and China “enjoys broad support from the public in both countries, is based on deep mutual trust, and therefore can’t be influenced from the outside,” the security chef said.

(In case readers wonder why I don’t include hyperlinks to RT articles as I do with all others, it’s because the comment almost always gets blocked by the software and I’m forced to remove the link. So, I just reference RT and usually include the headline making it easier to find.)
The introduction of the phrase/term Responsible World Power by both Russia and China presents the correct picture to the Global South whose eyes aren’t blinded by Western PsyOp Propaganda and presents a big problem to the Plundering Nations because of past history and present behavior. The Lawfare about to be demonstrated by Russia is a case in point as was the justification for the SMO and security demands of last December.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2022 20:55 utc | 125

What pressure is built up!
It is already known everything what will be said!
Putin will say, after results of referendums is announced, teritories will join Russia.
After that every attack on these teritories will be considered as attack on Russia.
After that Shoigu will announce partial mobilisation. And if needed, also article 19. will be activated.
Game over.

Posted by: preseren3 | Sep 20 2022 21:01 utc | 126

@ 93
Anti-Ukrainian feeling in Crimea and Donbass is actually much stronger than anti-Spanish secessionist yearning in Catalonia. There should be no doubt about this. Crimea and Donbass are easily 75% pro-Russian, at the very least.
As for the rest of southern Ukraine, it’s been known for a long time that pro-Russian secessionists comprise close to 50% of the population.
Since 2014, pro-Ukrainian Western media has done a good job of hiding these facts from the US and EU public.

Posted by: Rudi | Sep 20 2022 21:06 utc | 127

Zelensky must be heavily medicated and delusional, firing missiles/mines into civilian territory won’t win you their hearts & minds.
OK Cecil Rhodes/British, late 19th century, won the minds of the Matabele peoples of the now Zimbabwe when mowing them down with Maxim machine guns and forcing them to work their own land as slaves, however, those days are long gone, well almost, France are still hanging on just, to their colonial past.

Posted by: WTFUD | Sep 20 2022 21:06 utc | 128

As for the rest of southern Ukraine, it’s been known for a long time that pro-Russian secessionists comprise close to 50% of the population.
Since 2014, pro-Ukrainian Western media has done a good job of hiding these facts from the US and EU public.
Posted by: Rudi | Sep 20 2022 21:06 utc | 128

What the people of Ukraine, the United States, and every other vassal state of the US wants is a government that will stand up for their interests and not those of a foreign nation, or even worse, a foreign oligarchy.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Sep 20 2022 21:10 utc | 129

This conflict betwen the NATO gang and Russia is BEST understood as a playground fight between adolescent boys.The gang of flunkies sucking Up to the big bully in hopes of somé crumbs from the bootie. The flunkies Will remain faithful until the big bully gets his nose bloodied and runs off. Maybe this new turn of events Will have the desired result. Lets Hope so!

Posted by: c | Sep 20 2022 21:13 utc | 130

dfg @120–
I disagree. Yes, parts of the UN are compromised, but it still is vastly better than the League of Nations. The fundamental principles of the Charter still exist and are agreed upon by the vast majority of nations. It might operate better if the nations in violation of the Charter were removed from the UN, but they’d still act unilaterally and the issue of the difficulty in disciplining them would still exist as it does now. IMO, the fact that the vast majority of nations agree on the UN’s principles validate the need for the UN’s existence. The SCO in contrast is similar yet quite different from the UN in its purpose which is more pro-active and specific.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2022 21:14 utc | 131

Tom UK@98
You are misinformed: the “Occupying Military Force” has been expelled from all the areas holding referenda.
As to the depletion of population, that is ending as artillery attacks on the civilian population are diminishing, thanks to Russian counter measures, and the millions who fled into exile from the fascist offensives against the population are beginning to return.
One wonders whether the local governments considered doing what NATO did in Kossovo- not holding a referendum at all and handing it over to Albanian terrorists for organ harvesting.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 20 2022 21:16 utc | 132

I don’t care much about Ukraine or Zelensky, or that SMO becomes a fully-fledged war with Ukraine, but I’d like to enjoy life somewhat peacefully for next 5-10 years, for I am old. If Russia takes a part of former Ukraine to itself, or even if Russia wins/loses what would it matter when a person is dead?

Posted by: alexis | Sep 20 2022 21:22 utc | 133

The referendum in Kherson was cancelled due to the Ukraine southern offensive. Holding all the referendums on very short notice gives the west less time to prepare provocations.
With Putin being so upbeat at the recent presser, he did not look to be a man expecting war.
Three months for mobilization and training … Mid winter may well be a critical time with EU and UK facing unrest and possibly collapsing economies.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 20 2022 21:23 utc | 134

18: “If Germany believes it can weather the coming winter(however poorly) with the gas storage it presently holds”
What is it going to do for an economy after that? Spring follows, then a hot summer. Factories will already be closed, jobs gone. It looks like an ugly year, not just a hard winter.
Their voters will react worse than have the Swedes.

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Sep 20 2022 21:31 utc | 135

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 20 2022 18:59 utc | 71
Maybe Putin speech will come after referendums held, see no point holding one now.
Or as rebuttal to the UNGA speeches of Joe and Liz Tzu. Liz is sure to demand Putin get his troops out of Vladisvostok and his submarines out of Lake Baikal.

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 20 2022 21:33 utc | 136

Apparently the speeches will be at 8am Moscow time – delayed so they could be made when all the country was awake.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 20 2022 21:40 utc | 137

Forgive me if this the incorrect place to pose this question but I cannot gather the meaning from any web query…
What is the meaning of “USUKIS”?
Thank you!

Posted by: jkub | Sep 20 2022 21:49 utc | 138

USA UK Israel

Posted by: p | Sep 20 2022 22:01 utc | 139

BTW, I don’t think a full mobilization will be announced. The most importang thing in all of this is that, signalling repatriating those territories, Russia is making it very clear that it is willing to go to every and any lenghts. There is no way Russia would let go of it’s own territories. Defeat is not an option here.

Posted by: Pobeda | Sep 20 2022 22:02 utc | 140

I think that planed referendums are part of the preplaned stage three of the SMO. UN gathering and G7 plans to place a cap on price of Russian oil will result in Russian temporary halt of sales of oil to any customer from the West. This will result in a spike in price of oil. This will coincide with a major Russian offensive In Donbas. By the time of the elections in the US Ukraine will loose more territory, the price of oil will force Fed to further hike the interest rates, and risk pushing US economy into the recession. Dems will loose both the House and the Senate. By Christmas the sobering cold weather and diminishing economy will force the West to negotiate.

Posted by: Milos | Sep 20 2022 22:03 utc | 141

Well done Putin. Finally hit the Nazis with the dagger. There’s no coming back from this for them. The death blow, in 404 at least.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 20 2022 22:06 utc | 142

@tom
oi Tom,give it a rest.
your heads so far up your own arse,you don’t see what a load of drivel your spouting.

Posted by: James | Sep 20 2022 22:07 utc | 143

Back to Alastair Crooke’s essay, “Goodbye Westification: The World Moves On”, where we read this toward its end:
“Nonetheless, under the palimpsest of diverse European protest camps, we are witnessing inklings of recovery peeping out from behind the ruins: old values, earlier social forms are returning in a new, fecund form. Most of today’s ‘discontented’ will be oblivious to this and may never seriously address the deeper layers to the history of thinking, or to that ‘other’ vision from which they derive.
“But that is not the point, for even as the leaves of western civilisation fall to the ground, seeds are being set into our collective psyche.”
First word of note is palimpsest, “a manuscript page, either from a scroll or a book, from which the text has been scraped or washed off so that the page can be reused for another document.”
Given the preceding four paragraphs of context–especially the fourth which I must provide:
“What we in the West possess today, MacIntyre suggests, is nothing more than mere fragments of an older tradition (a heroic society). But evidently, these fragments simply are too sparse, since our moral discourse which still deploys terms like good and justice and duty, nonetheless has been robbed of the context that would make these terms intelligible. In other words, it places the virtue of the heroic Homeric world beyond the reach of a collective West.”
Crooke says the West is not at all what it thinks of itself, particularly those that aren’t elites, which is also saying the elite are out of touch with reality–they are removed, or have removed themselves, from the values that once gave meaning to the concept of Western Civilization. Thus, without those anchoring values, Western Civilization ceases to exist. It got canceled by those promoting Cancel Culture leaving us with the need to build something “with a very different ontological basis.”
All this may seem esoteric, but it matters a great deal. Yes, it helps to have closely read Crooke over the last several years and those he cites; but if you take your time, you can discern his argument that the West is in an existential crisis brought about by its own hand–not Russia’s, not China’s, not Iran’s, nor any other civilizational state. How else can the humans in charge of western nations and institutions think it’s perfectly fine to plunder their own people and others to pad their bank accounts? Their megalomania has become self-destructive, yet they are completely blind–oblivious–to their actions.
I now return you to shallower topics.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2022 22:07 utc | 144

The European Commission is ‘considering’ the ‘possibility’ of Un-sanctioning Russian coal to international markets. Mighty white of them!

Posted by: WTFUD | Sep 20 2022 22:08 utc | 145

and how did Hawaii become a vassal state of the USA? by a illegal overthrow of the government.
in response to those who believe western nations can do no wrong.

Posted by: slippery | Sep 20 2022 22:18 utc | 146

Do not keep your hope high!
President Putin took 4 months after demandfor nato to go back, to start his military campaign with anaemic means. If he had done that by atleast 25th December 2021, then Mr. Winter would have helped Russia by mid march 2022 provided putin had guts to stop gas and oil to Europe before that.
But he always is lazy taking time. Same with Syrian campaign. Remember how much time he wasted taking UN permission, still americans came and stole Syrian pol under his nose!

Posted by: Sam | Sep 20 2022 22:20 utc | 147

Sushi 137
The pallid dwarf will then demand Hong Kong be handed back, the British Raj be reinstated, Assange to be transferred to Guantanamo (instead of Rwanda), Prince Charles part 3 (Camilla’s tampax) be given a pay rise for ‘service and duty’ or whatever, and Ukron Nazi’s are going to get £2.5 billion in arms aid to murder ethnic Russians with, which they’ve been doing for the last 8 and a half years.
After her UNGA ‘maidan’ speech, she’ll piss off to Studio 51 with drunk lush Pelosi, Condoleeza uncle tommasina Rice and Killary ‘bike of Arkansas’ Clinton to do a rendition of ‘sisters are doing it for themselves’ on karaoke.
Hopefully some random biker chick will stripe her in the toilets whilst she’s ‘powdering her nose’…..

Posted by: Prince Andrew | Sep 20 2022 22:24 utc | 148

America’s Fatwa
The fatwa list includes such “traitors” as writers Chris Hedges and Glenn Greenwald, political scientist John Mearsheimer, Pink Floyd singer Roger Waters, Senator Rand Paul (R-KY), former presidential candidate Tulsi Gabbard, conservative military analyst Edward Luttwak who was placed on the list for suggesting that referendums should be held in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions concerning their relations to Ukraine, and Henry Kissinger, who is worried about the prospects of a war between the U.S. and Russia.
SOURCE:
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2022/09/19/ukrainian-hit-list-publishes-names-and-addresses-of-alleged-russian-propagandists-turns-out-to-be-based-not-in-ukraine-but-in-langley-va-where-cia-headquarters-is/

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 20 2022 22:28 utc | 149

If this is anything to go by Russians are getting angry about the number of NATO leaders calling for the country’s destruction.
https://www.rt.com/russia/563196-vladimir-kornilov-it-is-time/
will that link work?

Posted by: bevin | Sep 20 2022 22:28 utc | 150

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 20 2022 21:33 utc | 137
Or as rebuttal to the UNGA speeches of Joe and Liz Tzu. Liz is sure to demand Putin get his troops out of Vladisvostok and his submarines out of Lake Baikal.

It’s depressing to think that what we still call “the West” is “led” by these people, and Ursula von Hairspray, and the ugly little German guy who looks like a geography teacher whose wife just left him, and the tiny French banker who married an old lady, and Justin from Canada.
No wonder we’re in trouble.
Not that I think Vladimir Putin is a genius level 5D underwater chess strategist or anything, but compared to Western leaders… he’s an adult.
Russians, and Asiatic nations, I guess, still expect their senior politicians to talk in calm, measured and factual bases like responsible grown ups. We in the West expect ours to be sinister clowns and/or certified morons moronically shouting soundbites at the camera as if it was Roy Bloody Walker.
It’s like Putin is quoting Shakespeare and his Western counterparts are quoting a particularly obnoxious gaggle of Canada geese.

Posted by: ZX | Sep 20 2022 22:29 utc | 151

@ karlof1
You know much more about this than me. I just have to say I don’t see how anyone can remove the nuclear-armed Atlantic spanners from the UNSC gears to make the whole machine work again. Seems to me the RoW must continue building parallel institutions, as they’ve been doing.
The western press frequently repeats some memes about “peace through strength” and “the enemy only understands the language of force”. Since it turns out they constantly project their own ideology, for the foreseeable future they aren’t suited to become members of any organization seeking peace and prosperity.

Posted by: dfg | Sep 20 2022 22:29 utc | 152

«the people of the eastern regions of the Ukraine are not allowed to use their own language in public, they are under constant artillery attack from a government in Kiev that answers not to them or any other Ukrainians but to foreign oligarchs and the United States.»
Indeed, even the pro-Kremlin side like to forget that the starting point was the war of aggression and ethnic cleaning by the ukrainian government against the people of the Donbas, initiated with the Mariupol massacre, when for the first time the ukrainian government military (rather than the fascist militias) attacked:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/05/10/ukra-m10.html
“With the open support of Washington and its European allies, the regime installed by Washington and Berlin in last February’s fascist-led putsch is now extending its reign of terror against all popular resistance in Ukraine. That is the significance of the events in the major eastern Ukrainian city of Mariupol yesterday. After tanks, armoured personnel carriers and heavily armed troops were unleashed on unarmed civilians in the city, the Kiev regime claimed to have killed some 20 people. The Obama administration immediately blamed the violent repression on “pro-Russian separatists.”

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 20 2022 22:39 utc | 153

@ 145 Karlof1
I think Gates (buying up thousands of hectares of land) along with Blackrock/Monsanto (Bayer)/Other Hedge-Funds, Bezos, JPM-Goldman, and a host of others, know perfectly well what they are doing.
The US government acting as enabler also knows what it’s doing. Nancy Pelosi in Taiwan and Armenia knows the score.
The whole MSM presstitute gang are perfectly aware of the propaganda they spread for the Murdoch’s and other Media Magnets.
THEY JUST DON’T GIVE A FUCK.
Still, Monsanto, Blackrock and the other motley crews who’ve purchased 20% of Ukrainian land on the quiet are ‘highly unlikely’ to see any return on their investment, while Lockheed & Northrop Grumman are cock-a-hoop, as is Blackwater.
The CIA-MI6 and other western ‘Intelligence Services’ who planned this will be up & down.
My point is that they’re more simply EVIL BASTARDS than megalomaniacs.
Would you consider Trump a megalomaniac? He came out and told the world straight we’re here for the Syrian oil. Hopefully Haliburton, Exxon and the good ol’ boys will soon be made to flee with their tails between their legs.

Posted by: WTFUD | Sep 20 2022 22:39 utc | 154

karlofi@145
“..West is in an existential crisis brought about by its own hand–not Russia’s, not China’s, not Iran’s, nor any other civilizational state…”
The ‘West’ as in Empire has pretty well ruled the world- certainly since 1990- for a long time. So it has to be responsible for its current predicament.
The problem is that the Empire has no perspective involving peace. It knows only war, subversion, chaos is its language. Like a mafiosa its answer to all problematic relationships is assassination. Russia is in its way, therefore Russia must go the way of Carthage. China is growing stronger, more stable, its people escaping poverty, therefore, to prevent China from offering an alternative to the American way China must be reduced to chaos.
And there always Yenwodas and Tom UK’s to assist in promoting the cause of inhumanity and conflict.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 20 2022 22:39 utc | 155

Dima at the Military Summary channel proposes that the planned referenda have the additional benefit of driving the Ukrainian leadership into an absolute frenzy, with them throwing everything they have against the Russian defences to take back territory before it becomes part of Russia. Telegram channels that I follow are in agreement, noting that even reserves from the Kiev area are being sent to the front for a desperate push. This can only work to the aid of the demilitarization of Ukraine as great numbers of Ukrainian soldiers die in hastily put together attempted assaults and in transit.
It also seems to have deeply unsettled the Western leaders, with Macron desperately trying to call Putin – a call that was rejected. I have to assume that the referenda will be held quite quickly, to give as little time as possible to the Western elites to plan and carry out dirty tricks. Then, the lands will be Russian and the game will completely change as the SMO becomes at the least an anti-terrorist operation and the Russian gloves come off. Just in time for the forests to lose their leaves, the temperature to drop and the ground to harden for Russian tanks. And Europe to start reducing permitted indoor temperatures, close more and more energy hungry industries, and to start planning for the inevitable power cuts.
Winter is coming.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 20 2022 22:39 utc | 156

bevin 151
‘will that link work?’
Not over here in the realm of PrinceKing Charlie part 3. Far too much of all that freedomy of speechy wokey stuffy going on over here as it is….

Posted by: Prince Andrew | Sep 20 2022 22:44 utc | 157

«The head of the DPR Denis Pushilin appealed to President Vladimir Putin with a request to accept the DPR into Russia in case of a positive decision on the results of the vote.»
As to this I think that the russian nationalist fanatics who claim that the Donbas and Crimea are russian by right of history are despicable hypocrites: the whole point of these referendums is that it is up to the *people* of the Donbas and Crimea to decide their state arrangements. If they want to be autonomous member states of Ukraine, they should be, if they want to be independent, they should be, if they want to be member states of the Russian Federation, they should be, if in the future they want to become independent of the Russian Federation and make other choices, that should happen. That’s what “self determination” under the U.N. charter means; it is for *peoples*, not for territories.
Given that the people of the Donbas have been the targets of 8 years of war of aggression and ethnic cleansing by the ukrainian fascists, and have been aided and defended by the Russian Federation, I guess that they will choose accordingly, especially given the example of Autonomous Republic of Crimea.
While the Russian Federation has legitimate security worries about keeping some relentless adversaries away from their borders, that is not quite the point: the point is the freedom of the *people* of the Donbas.

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 20 2022 22:47 utc | 158

Down South #82

Speech by Friedrich Merz made a few days ago
Rather ominous. They’re planning something big for the 24th of September. It’s 20:42 long but you just have to listen to the first 60 seconds
Partial transcript:
President, ladies and gentlemen
Dear colleagues , this 24th of September 2022 will remain in our memories as a day we will all remember, we will say
“ I know exactly where I was when I first heard the news of the war in Ukraine and saw the first pictures of it”

I guess he is addled as he has run out of bread, beer and heating and meant 24 February 2022. But the dopes still applauded his poor intro.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 20 2022 22:50 utc | 159

Roger@157…new European solidarity slogan…..Make Love, Create Heat
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 20 2022 22:50 utc | 160

dfg @153–
Thanks for your reply. Yes, your POV is very understandable. When I was much younger, I thought similarly. 1989-1991 changed my POV, although I’d already made my decision to examine the history of the US Empire and what led to it, which is a very wide and deep examination. Some see the world fracturing into two blocs much like Cold War 1.0–a Neoliberal bloc led by Outlaw US Empire and its vassals, and the RoW arranged as a Socialist-Industrial bloc mutually using the very tools that led the Imperialist nations to gain their advantage. Essentially a Zero-sum bloc versus a Win-Win bloc. How long such a configuration can exist is unknown, but there’re already cracks present within the Zero-sum bloc.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2022 22:52 utc | 161

If this is anything to go by Russians are getting angry about the number of NATO leaders calling for the country’s destruction.
https://www.rt.com/russia/563196-vladimir-kornilov-it-is-time/
will that link work?
Posted by: bevin | Sep 20 2022 22:28 utc | 151

Hmm.
General Ben Hodges, in a high-profile article about preparing for Russia’s disintegration. Hodges, who is employed by CEPA – a lobby group bankrolled by US arms contractors and NATO – is arguably one of the most active ‘talking heads’ about the Ukrainian crisis on Western television right now.
The general hopes the collapse of our state will be fueled by our ethnic diversity

So this very senior ranking American officer turned DC swamp creature *doesn’t* believe that Diversity is Russia’s Greatest Strength. How curious, and yet illuminating about the establishment’s true opinion.
All these “prophecies” have been brought into the political realm by Estonian President Alar Karis. Opening the NATO Military Committee conference in Tallinn last Friday, he openly admonished the Chiefs of Staff of the US-led bloc to give up their “fear of destabilizing the situation in Russia.”
I’m not even remotely Russian, yet I’m tired of these nonentity politicians from pipsqueak countries piping up with their latest genius masterplan to get NATO to fight a nuclear war with Russia to satiate whatever Eastern Euro grievances they’re nursing this week. I can only imagine how Russians feel, being disrespected like this. Probably none too forgiving.

Posted by: ZX | Sep 20 2022 22:53 utc | 162

Tom UK #98

What would you call an occupying military force holding a referendum in a territory massively depleted of its people and then declaring themselves the ‘winner’ and that you are ‘all our citizens now’?

Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales perhaps.
Then there is an occupying military NOT HOLDING a referendum. Could you name it as Israel, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Lebanon perhaps
You get my drift… the Butcher of Buckingham Palace may be dead and buried but the invasive spirit still occupies the living.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 20 2022 22:58 utc | 163

112: «the Spanish premier stated that Russian President Vladimir Putin was using ‘energy as a war tool,’ because he is ‘threatened by the EU’s Values,’ Politico reports.” The man is delusional to say the least»
129: «Zelensky must be heavily medicated and delusional, firing missiles/mines into civilian territory won’t win you their hearts & minds.»
They are for from delusional, what they say in public is purely “home front morale” propaganda. There is a recording of Hillary Clinton speaking during a dinner with “sponsors” saying as much.
I’ll make an exception for Joe Biden, whose physical decline in recent years has been obvious.

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 20 2022 23:08 utc | 164

«OK Cecil Rhodes/British, late 19th century, won the minds of the Matabele peoples of the now Zimbabwe when mowing them down with Maxim machine guns»
A Conservative MP who also was writing poetry wrote explicitly as much:
Henry Belloq “The Modern Traveller” (1898):
Whatever happens we have got
The Maxim Gun, and they have not.

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 20 2022 23:09 utc | 165

130: «What the people of Ukraine, the United States, and every other vassal state of the US wants is a government that will stand up for their interests and not those of a foreign nation, or even worse, a foreign oligarchy.»
Then they have to be ready to fight to the death for that, and for most that is not an option.
I am pro-USA for most european countries, as the lesser evil, because in current circumstances and for a many decades still being an USA vassal is still the best options for most developed countries, and anyhow the USA are pretty good at sanctioning and regime-changing recalcitrant vassals.

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 20 2022 23:10 utc | 166

137: «Liz is sure to demand Putin get his troops out of Vladisvostok and his submarines out of Lake Baikal.»
She said that Rostov and Voronezh should be given “back” to Ukraine. Many people think that was an ignorant mistake, but I think she was very serious: it was a reminder that if the Russian Federation loses militarily or there is regime change in it, it will be dismembered, as it was after WW1.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/10/russia-must-respect-ukraine-sovereignty-liz-truss-talks-open
Here is a lithuanian fanatic and his “Smolensk is Lithuania” mug as another example:
https://twitter.com/MatasMaldeikis/status/1537043521261211651

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 20 2022 23:14 utc | 167

152: «It’s depressing to think that what we still call “the West” is “led” by these people»
They are cunning operators, not idiots, but in large part they are frontpersons, not principals, and their “sponsors” have legions of top quality experts briefing them, and enormous resources.
The USA elites are capable of skilful long term plans. Just consider: how many successful regime change operations or invasions have the USA achieved in the past 30 years? How many have been achieved by the RF or PRC or anybody else?

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 20 2022 23:16 utc | 168

WTFUD @155–
Thanks for your reply. Trump is a different sort of grifter as I’ve written before. Most Ds & Rs are the megalomaniacs, along with the Neoliberals on Wall Street. And yes, you do get the main point, “THEY JUST DON’T GIVE A FUCK.” The problem with that is they’re now standing on air having kicked away the foundation and gravity will soon do its work.
/////
bevin @156–
Thanks for your reply. My reply is similar to the above. As I would argue further, the concept of Western Civilization is on life support as what remains as its foundation, almost all of what was supposedly solid, has turned out to be false, intellectual quicksand, and the falsities also affect non-western nations. And given their basis in belief, discussion of them is extremely sensitive and certainly off topic for this thread. Putin has addressed Liberalism’s failure but has avoided dealing with the other issues above, which he would be beyond foolish to raise now. Hidden between Crooke’s lines is the resurgence of pagans, for their civilization formed the basis for what became the West, those “inklings of recovery peeping out from behind the ruins: old values, earlier social forms are returning in a new, fecund form.”

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2022 23:17 utc | 169

94: «Ukraine has a lot of experience with overruling referendums. Just google “krim referendum 1994” for examples.»
There was the 1991 referendum by which the Autonomous Republic of Crimea became an independent state *before* Ukraine, and then was annexed forcibly by Ukraine (annexation that was not much resisted), and then there was this funny episode:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26681653
“Because Mr Meshkov was the first – and so far only – president of Crimea. He was elected in 1994, by a landslide, on a platform of reuniting the Ukrainian peninsula with Russia. Like an eager suitor, he hopped on a plane to Moscow… only to find his overtures to Boris Yeltsin rebuffed. The Russian president was far too concerned with building a relationship with the West […] recalled how he had been removed by Ukrainian troops in 1995. It was just a year after he was elected that the authorities in Kiev put a stop to his political hopes, passing a new Ukrainian constitution, which abolished the post of Crimean president.”
That’s how “liberal democracy” works in Ukraine.

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 20 2022 23:20 utc | 170

I am pro-USA for most European countries, as the lesser evil . . . .
Seriously?
The 11 full on and two dozen other military bases will have some influence on people’s psyche, this and the CIA’s constant surveillance of Euro-leaders makes it all cosy.

Posted by: WTFUD | Sep 20 2022 23:30 utc | 171

«What would you call an occupying military force holding a referendum»
The Donbas referendum is being organized by the governments of the Donbas, which is protected by the “military force” of the Donbas republics, composed of citizen-soldiers from the Donbas.
Was the USA declaration of independence invalid because the 13 states were under an “occupying military force” of its citizen-soldiers (George Washington’s Continental Army)? 🙂
Was the independence of the Irish Republic invalid because it was done under the “occupying military force” of its citizen-soldiers?
«in a territory massively depleted of its people»
I guess that 8 years of war of aggression by the ukrainian government against the people of the Donbas to massacre and ethnically cleanse them might have had something to do with that “depletion”:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas
«3,393 civilians killed (349 in 2016–2021)
13,100–13,300 killed; 29,500–33,500 wounded overall
414,798 Ukrainians internally displaced; 925,500 fled abroad»
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/05/10/ukra-m10.html
«10 May 2014
With the open support of Washington and its European allies, the regime installed by Washington and Berlin in last February’s fascist-led putsch is now extending its reign of terror against all popular resistance in Ukraine. That is the significance of the events in the major eastern Ukrainian city of Mariupol yesterday.
After tanks, armoured personnel carriers and heavily armed troops were unleashed on unarmed civilians in the city, the Kiev regime claimed to have killed some 20 people.
The Obama administration immediately blamed the violent repression on “pro-Russian separatists.”»

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 20 2022 23:34 utc | 172

Thanks for your reply. My reply is similar to the above. As I would argue further, the concept of Western Civilization is on life support as what remains as its foundation, almost all of what was supposedly solid, has turned out to be false, intellectual quicksand …
[Crooke:] “inklings of recovery peeping out from behind the ruins: old values, earlier social forms are returning in a new, fecund form.”

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2022 23:17 utc | 171
I don’t disagree with the above but was deeply pleased by the response to QEII’s passing on the part of such a huge number of ‘silent majority’ Brits. When something happens to which many can relate then instant solidarity ensues.
So as bad as things are – and they really ARE bad – with proper catalysts, including those summoned into mind by inspired leadership, rapid change is always possible. I take comfort in that…

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 20 2022 23:35 utc | 173

Keep an eye on hyenas of Europe, they are defo up to something

Posted by: Lubomir | Sep 20 2022 23:36 utc | 174

sean the leprechaun 161
….new Eurotrash solidarnosc slogans…
– Burn Candles, Decapitate Putin
– Buy Lotto Tickets, Cross Fingers (then burn torn up loser tickets to keep your kiddies warm)
– Take Less Showers, Destroy Russian Economy/ Make Putin Cry
– Arm Nazis, Collective Pest Values
– Pre Order Blue & Yellow Christmas Ornaments, It’s What Jesus Died For
– Food Banks, Be F*cking Grateful….

Posted by: Prince Andrew | Sep 20 2022 23:36 utc | 175

@149 Still got sex on your mind eh Andrew? Even after a period of mourning. That Epstein chap really got to you didn’t he?

Posted by: dh | Sep 20 2022 23:38 utc | 176

“the ugly little German guy who looks like a geography teacher whose wife just left him”
LMAO.

Posted by: Michigan Dude | Sep 20 2022 23:42 utc | 177

Col. Doug Macgregor – Ukraine Russia Latest
https://invidious.fdn.fr/watch?v=ueVccOhQ7C8

Posted by: gordon | Sep 20 2022 23:45 utc | 178

Thanks for this post.
Earlier in his essay, Crooke speaks to the benefits of community as a means of shaping behaviour and setting moral standards. It is via our participation in community that we partake of the ‘other sensibility’ that has nurtured all ancient cultures and pre-Enlightenment science: that the blueprint of life – DNA, if you prefer – threads through everything
I would argue that many of the persons attending the recent London funeral did so out of a hunger for that shared sense of community and less so due to an awe of regalia, hierarchy, pomp, and circumstance.
Those who viewed the spectacle on the tube had a much diminished perspective of events.
One quibble. Crooke asserts Foreign policy ‘bedrock’ remains framed around the Enlightenment and Scientific Rationalism ideal. This may be true of Mearsheimer, Luttwak, and Kissinger but not of Truss, Scholtz, the penis playing piano, Sullivan, Brandon and many others. These persons may be driven by messianic beliefs but only hold such beliefs for reasons earlier identified by Crooke:
First, they imagine themselves leading the inexorable march towards a utopian, redemption of a flawed humanity. and second they are the products of
a radically changed way of imagining the self.
As the member of a community you cannot simply engage in a radical re-imagining of the self. The community lends its vitality but also constrains you. You cannot participate in community without experience of both the flawed self and flawed other. The result is humility and generosity or, in sanskrit, donpha and bindu.
Those who have been successfully atomized by the process of private accumulation face no such constraint. The limited world they inhabit reflects the appropriated imagined self back to them in the form of courtiers, underlings, sycophants and the laudatory pages of the WaPo and NYT.
I suspect Putin and Xie adhere to the ideal of scientific rationalism. They also understand community and their responsibility to their people. There are few in the West who still follow this path; unfortunately these are the ones whose fingers rest on the escalation triggers.
It is now almost 0300 Moscow time. In another five hours we should learn something of the future status of our world.

Posted by: Sushi | Sep 20 2022 23:45 utc | 179

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2022 22:07 utc | 145
Thank you for your quote and analysis/synopsis of Crooke’ . I agree fully with what you and Crooke say. I feel it more than I can put in words. But I was grasping for those words when I was watching the funeral of the Qeeen Elizabeth. It was “visceral” for me to see this Western world fading away, but certain eternal (really?) symbolisms remain.
I tried to comment about those observations to my wife – and I probably failed, but a small piece may have gotten through to her (for reasons which go beyond this note).

Posted by: fanto | Sep 20 2022 23:46 utc | 180

Prince Andrew #177

– Buy Lotto Tickets, Cross Fingers (then burn torn up loser tickets to keep your kiddies warm)

In Germany the biggest paper tissue manufacturer has closed after being in business since 1887. High energy costs etc…
So one SELLS lotto tickets rather than burn them. With some ginger finger work they might replace toilet paper.
Same goes for supermarket receipts.
Here is an album to consider.
Note some tunes have eschatological reference.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 20 2022 23:48 utc | 181

157: “And Europe to start reducing permitted indoor temperatures, close more and more energy hungry industries, and to start planning for the inevitable power cuts. Winter is coming.
That’s the least of the problems, most european states have the money to survive that (too bad for those that don’t have it).
The biggest problem is that perhaps a majority of the energy in Ukraine was supplied by the Russian Federation, and even if they found alternative suppliers neither the ukrainian government nor the ukrainian citizens have the money to buy supplies elsewhere, or even winter clothing; the ukrainian government are even requesting donations from EU countries of winter clothing for their soldiers (obviously they never had enough stocks of winter uniforms to begin with, because in Ukraine hard winters happened every year).
In the UK a minority of many millions of the poor are facing an “eat or heat” winter, I guess a large majority of the ukrainian population will too.
So I would expect another 10-20 million ukrainians to emigrate during this winter, long columns of hungry, freezing people walking in the snow towards Poland, Slovakia, Romania (and Belarus and the Russian Federation).
The ukrainian military are trying to make desperate “demonstrative” attacks against the Donbas with no or little strategic or tactical value, enormously wakening their own frontline, probably because their generals reckon that the ukrainian army will not survive as a fighting force this winter, especially if the Russian Federation forces can hit hard their logistics.

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 20 2022 23:49 utc | 182

sorry for my typo – it should be “Queen”, of course

Posted by: fanto | Sep 20 2022 23:49 utc | 183

«The 11 full on and two dozen other military bases will have some influence on people’s psyche, this and the CIA’s constant surveillance of Euro-leaders»
Not many europeans want their country to be targeted by USA sanctions and by USA regime change operations. They tend to be pretty brutal, see Venezuela or Bolivia etc. Independence is not an absolute value, it is not a matter of loud declamations, it is a matter of actual power.
Also USA vassalage for most european states is fairly lightweight: as long as the they get USA DOD/CIA bases, a chunk of the market for USA corporates, and control of foreign and military policy, and stay well away from “communism”, the european vassals can largely govern themselves as to domestic matters. It is a bit as if they were USA states, but with no representation in Congress.
There are advantages: USA vassalage comes with some access to USA markets, as the USA elites want imports to keep USA wages down and unemployment higher, and with access to a vast number of worldwide markets under “pax americana”.
The EU has managed to become self-sufficient in food (thanks to the hugely expensive CAP), but is nowhere near being self-sufficient in fuels and many other raw materials, and the USA have made clear that buying them from cheap from the Russian Federation is not allowed for USA vassals.
Of the two evils, losing access to RF supplies and markets, and losing access to USA-controlled supplies and markets, the first is the lesser evil.
Besides all worldwide sea-lanes through which fuels and other raw materials are imported to Europe are completely controlled by the USA Navy, that can stop them at any time.
The USA can strangle the european economy, as it happened to Germany in both WW1 and WW2, anytime they want, and as the UK government realized in 1956 at the time of their invasion of Suez.
“Ubi major minor cessat”.

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 21 2022 0:04 utc | 184

Just a thought …
Italy looks to have be getting ready to have a government that might just break with the EU. … There is the possibility of a very strong ‘Pro-Putin’ camp in the making. … If Italy can break the EU, then more dominos will follow.
Question … Has Putin sensed this (or perhaps even had backdoor cooperative assurances of this)?

Posted by: Mummer | Sep 21 2022 0:08 utc | 185

“Reacting to the announcement that the Lugansk and Donetsk People’s Republics (LPR and DPR) will hold votes on joining Russia later this week, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg on Tuesday called them illegitimate and demanded more support for Ukraine from the “international community.” (RT 09/20/2022)
If the Western countries (the EU, US and UK) were actually “democratic states” as they claim to be, they would order Zelensky and the UAF to honor a temporary cease fire while the citizens of the Donbass hold their referendum on September 23 through 27. They may not accept the referendum, and that is their decision to make, but the people of the Donbass are willing to risk their lives and fortunes to have their voice heard and the least that the western nations waging war against them could do, if they were actually concerned about democracy, is to allow the people of the Donbass to have their say.

Posted by: Guernica | Sep 21 2022 0:11 utc | 186

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 21 2022 0:04 utc | 186
the lesser evil for whom? Certainly not the people.
I am always amazed that anyone thinks foreign policy is separate from domestic politics.
Whereas in fact it controls it.
Cui bono applies across the board and of course if a country is a vassal then most assuredly domestic policy will be ever more harshly neoliberal with assets increasingly being sold off and stripped out and life becoming increasingly more difficult for the working class.

Posted by: K | Sep 21 2022 0:20 utc | 187

@183 “With some ginger finger work they might replace toilet paper.”
Not sure how people will cope in Germany but it’s not a problem in Afghanistan. They use rocks. Except for the elite of course and they all moved to Dubai.

Posted by: dh | Sep 21 2022 0:21 utc | 188

There was no tv speech then? Any updates if there will be? Thank you.

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 21 2022 0:24 utc | 189

Balkanizer | Sep 20 2022 16:57 utc | 12
Haven’t been to Duran duo for a while.
My hunch on reading this thread here, is that Putin, Xi, The Sultan, Modi and a few others at the Samarkand meetup were consulted, informed and considered.
There’s a few pics like this on telegram from the meet.
Putin had bilateral meets with just about everyone in this pic.
I think the Albania- Azerbaijan bullshit is a factor also.
Pelosi is in Albania with NED causing trouble.
Israel is sending weapons to Azerbaijan…..
None of the players in this pic need or want US bullshit in their countries.
https://t.me/azmilitary11/20566

Posted by: Melaleuca | Sep 21 2022 0:26 utc | 190

Alex Mercurius said… yet, the other day re Karkhiv.. we’ve lost, we are surrendering, we’re beaten, Ukies outsmarted our sleeping Generals, oh.. fate worse than death etc.

Posted by: Thomas Turk | Sep 21 2022 0:26 utc | 191

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Sep 20 2022 20:13 utc | 107
Good point Mao, if the EU and the NATO are going to reject the Donbass referendums (i.e. the will of the Don Bass People) that why should anyone accept the un-democratic elections put on by the 2014 coup plotters. My favorite response to this hypocrisy is very similar to yours, and we all heard this as kids growing up with our grandparents, is that: What is sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander. Now take this wise idiom and apply it to Serbia / Kosovo 1999.

Posted by: Guernica | Sep 21 2022 0:26 utc | 192

fanto @182–
Thanks for your reply. I find the sources Crooke has used in his series of essays about the West’s existential crisis to be quite interesting as they’re a mixture of contemporary conservatives, 1980-90s philosophers and 19th Century Russian writers. Then there’s his own background and observatory residence in the Levant. I must also applaud Sushi’s insights and contributions. I wrote several months ago that the Restoration was a tragic mistake for all within the British/Irish isles then and the Empire later. Family politics can be tricky.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2022 0:26 utc | 193

Keeping in mind.. Put1 went to Geneva a few years ago for the alleged birth of a daughter. 2 weeks later Put2 appeared. with a new round face, no more a prominent chin, diff eyes and earlobes, a new non-Judo belly, with more hair and the loss of his old German & Judo skills.. & his wife. Old video of Put1 with late Fr. Prez. Chirac, or any old photos show a different guy to Put2. Put’s Ghost locals call him. IMO, maybe after the failure of Put1 to follow through after the Donbass victory in 2014, and allowing the nutto to build up, was the last straw for the Russ MIC/top dogs.
Well there’s a JB2, HC2, MbS2 etc.. so no big deal.

Posted by: Thomas Turk | Sep 21 2022 0:28 utc | 194

Posted by: Thomas Turk | Sep 21 2022 0:28 utc | 196
Thomas, you’re really getting out there in the twilight zone, don’t you think?

Posted by: Guernica | Sep 21 2022 0:35 utc | 195

Scorpion 175
Yerp , the last 12 days/nights in Yank Colony No. 51 have been incredibly heart warming. Seeing Grate Britain turn into a large scale, open air embodiment of the Waco Compound circa 1993, with it’s own very cult of the personality biting the dust, hasn’t been disturbing at all. The only thing missing was black op cia helicopters buzzing around and ATF agents setting fire to little kiddies.
Maybe when Mr Amazon-Bezos releases the glorious medievalist pageantry on Blu-Ray HD Steelbook 4K he can CGI that bit into the ‘extras section ‘ (voice over provided by yours truly, or Dame Judi Dench).
dh 178
‘Even after a period of mourning’
What happened!….someone relevant to the 21st century popped their clogs?…..It wasn’t Alex Ferguson was it?!…please don’t tell me it was Robert Smith of The Cure!?!?!…

Posted by: Prince Andrew | Sep 21 2022 0:42 utc | 196

What is the meaning of “USUKIS”?
Posted by: jkub | Sep 20 2022 21:49 utc | 139
Sometimes we add France (which played a big part in fucking Libya, and Macron continues to insert the large snotty national proboscis into international affairs), which allows the acronym FUKUS. But Israel should *never* be forgotten, playing all sides as it does.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Sep 21 2022 0:44 utc | 197

What would you call an occupying military force holding a referendum in a territory massively depleted of its people and then declaring themselves the ‘winner’ and that you are ‘all our citizens now’?
Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 20 2022 19:55 utc | 98
What do you call elections in Iraq and Afghanistan while the US was bombing these countries to hell and back? Do you remember the green thumbs in Iraq? Tom, why are you such a simpleton? I am going to say it again: What is sauce for the goose……. All US policy in the US concerning Iraq and Afghanistan was based on those “war time” elections and referendums. Now you have a problem with it?

Posted by: Guernica | Sep 21 2022 0:45 utc | 198

189: “if a country is a vassal then most assuredly domestic policy will be ever more harshly neoliberal with assets increasingly being sold off and stripped out and life becoming increasingly more difficult for the working class
That is based on a gross confusion, also common among those who claim that the EU, not just the “Washington Consensus”, is an intrinsically neoliberal project that imposes neoliberalism on its members or vassals.
But in the 50s, 60s, 70s, when the USA was relatively much stronger and more vocally “anticommunist” than today, the USA elites tolerated an ample degree of social-democracy in Europe and other developed countries (while not tolerating it in resource-rich, backwards vassals in South America and Asia).
Similarly for the EEC and its successors the EU in the past, Thatcher and others thought that the EEC/EU was a socialist conspiracy; they are now mostly neoliberal only because most member government are neoliberal, and the majority defines EU policy.
The majority of EU governments are neoliberal because of *domestic* reasons (mostly the elevation to the pettiest bourgeoisie of much of the skilled working class, their principles being “Blow you! I am alright Jack”, “The working class can kiss my ass: I’ve got the foreman’s job at last”.
The “leftoids” who cannot see this cannot adapt to the different approached required in this era of mass rentierism, and keep repeating mechanically obsolete formulas.
Surely the USA elites are happy about the turn to neoliberalism of most european states, and had been making pressure for that via the IMF etc., but the choice for neoliberalism was made regardless by the rentier upper and upper-middle classes that now dominate european (and usian) politics.

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 21 2022 0:48 utc | 199

@198 “What happened!….someone relevant to the 21st century popped their clogs?”
You are getting muddled again Andrew. It was your mother! I saw pictures of you looking very solemn behind the coffin.

Posted by: dh | Sep 21 2022 0:48 utc | 200