Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 23, 2022
Historic Context Of The Referenda In Ukraine

Voting for membership in the Russian Federation has started in four oblast of Ukraine:

Russian proxy officials in four regions — Donetsk and Luhansk in the east, and Kherson and Zaporizka in the south — earlier this week announced plans to hold referendums over four days beginning on Friday. Russia controls nearly all of two of the four regions, Luhansk and Kherson, but only a fraction of the other two, Zaporizka and Donetsk.

Ukrainian officials have dismissed the voting as grotesque theater — staging polls in cities laid to waste by Russian forces and abandoned by most residents.

President Volodymyr Zelensky thanked Ukraine’s allies for their steadfast support and said “the farce” of “sham referenda” would do nothing to change his nation’s fight to drive Russia from Ukraine.

The Ukrainian regime has resorted to pure terrorism to prevent the votes from happening:

Ukrainian partisans, sometimes working with special operations forces, have blown up warehouses holding ballots and buildings where Russian proxy officials preparing for the vote held meetings. Ukrainian officials have acknowledged that they are engaged in a campaign to assassinate key Russian administration officials; more than a dozen have been blown up, shot and poisoned, according to Ukrainian and Russian officials.

Such behavior by the Zelenski regime against its still Ukrainian compatriots will only encourage the people in the four oblast to vote for an alignment with Russia.

The propaganda in the 'west' will declare that the vote is irregular and that the results, likely to be pro-Russian, will be fake.

But a view on historic election outcomes since Ukrainian independence in 1991 show clear geographic preferences in east and south Ukraine for pro-Russian policies:



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The graphic above is from research published by the Eurasian Research Institute of the International Hoca Ahmet Yesevi Turkish-Kazakh University. Its author writes:

As we can see, the have always been a clear-cut geographical split in the way the regions of Ukraine vote for particular candidates. The East and West division or also referred as Southeast and Northwest division was always present throughout the electoral history of the independent Ukraine. It is conventionally believed that the eastern part of Ukraine is more influenced by Russia politically, economically and culturally. Therefore, the presidential candidates proposing more pro-Russian agenda usually gain much more political support in eastern regions than in other parts of Ukraine. On the other hand, the western part of the country has traditionally been more pro-European with strong reference to traditional core Ukrainian ethnic traditions and values. Consequently, presidential candidates with pro-European political agenda and traditional Ukrainian appeal usually had strong support in western regions of the country. It is interesting to note that preferences of the electorate were not related to the geographical origin or background of the presidential candidates and any candidate could easily become popular in the east as well as in the west. Moreover, the same candidate could be both pro-eastern and pro-western in different periods of time as did Leonid Kuchma in 1994 and 1999, who is the only Ukrainian president to serve two consecutive terms from 1994 to 2005.

The division is consistent with ethnic and linguistic differences between those parts of Ukraine.


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In 2014, after the violent fascist coup in Kiev, one of the first laws implemented by the new government removed the Russian language from official use. Instead of overcoming the differences between its people it only sealed the predominant split in Ukraine.

The election promise of the current Ukrainian president Vladimir Zelenski to make peace with the Russia aligned rebellious Donbas region by adhering to the Minsk 2 agreements was rewarded with a large share of southeastern votes for his presidency. However, after having been threatened with death by fascists, Zelenski has made a 180 degree turn and has since posed as Ukrainian nationalist. In consequence he has lost all support in southeastern Ukraine.

The southeastern parts of today's Ukraine have for centuries been part of the central Russian empire. They were only attached to the Soviet Republic of Ukraine under Lenin's rule in 1922 and, in the case of Crimea, in 1954 under Nikita Khrushchev who himself had grown up in the Donbas region.


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A likely high turnout and majority vote for membership in the Russian Federation will only correct the historic misalignment created by those illogical transfers.

Comments

waynorinorway | Sep 24 2022 9:02 utc | 408
These are all good points – yet you underestimate or neglect the role of long and endless repetetive phrasing
Religious in origin this is now regulation PMC propaganda and trolling speech concerned with creating and chanting conformity : platitudes are essential : a lot of emphasis on security certainty and fear : most westies speak/understand only this language
Putin is unusually concise, but even he has to dose his speeches with some appeals to time honored values and concepts, on the rare occasions he got slightly emotional/carried away these come more to the fore

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 24 2022 10:03 utc | 401

Arch Bungle | Sep 24 2022 8:52 utc | 407
This is correct – often one senses in some of the DPR a similar pride and vanity relishing in their cherished status of victim ; such as all the westie complaints here and on other sites as to how come RF did ‘nt do this or that, intervene earlier, bomb something else – in the end they’re playing into the hands of NATO, quite apart from being futile
The way that everyone, almost everyone, wants to tell the President RF what to do – you’d think he was Ghandi or Mme Teresa, someone to overwhelm with demands

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 24 2022 10:11 utc | 402

These are all good points – yet you underestimate or neglect the role of long and endless repetetive phrasing
Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 24 2022 10:03 utc | 412
No I don’t. This just is not the place for that and there’s too many posters. We all lose when that happens here.
Truth is not long-winded.
Quote of the day: “Please keep your comment short and to the point.” – some dude who goes by moniker of b !

Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 24 2022 10:41 utc | 403

waynorinorway | Sep 24 2022 10:41 utc | 414
It would be tough, very probably, to exclude the westie propagandists and trolls – so you are obliged to accept them here, them and their alternate speech patterns
Any success at exclusion would be called Censorship, and you’d not be in favour of that..or… ?

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 24 2022 11:01 utc | 404

It would be tough, very probably, to exclude the westie propagandists and trolls…
Any success at exclusion would be called Censorship, and you’d not be in favour of that..or… ?
Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 24 2022 11:01 utc | 415
I find your argument weak.
Westie propagandists and trolls are here at their peril. It’s not our job to convince them or argue with them.
In fact just the opposite. Ignoring them is stated policy.
As for censorship you obviously are not aware that I have been one of the leading voices here against banning
and censorship. I resent your implication.
I am for self-restraint and consideration of others.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 24 2022 11:23 utc | 405

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 23 2022 23:09 utc | 298
I agree with Scorpion.
Arguably Operation Barbarossa could not have been so successful, destroying and captureing so much Russian military equipment; and initially capturing so many Russian troops, if Stalin had required his generals to take a defensive stance.
Stalin was not Putin. Apart from occupying half of Poland he had attacked Finland and other countries just prior. Germany was a relatively small country area-wise and would have been quickly overrun if Stalin had attacked first.
Arguably the fact that mainstream historians plug the anti-German contrary view is evidence that it is false. Virtually ALL human history has been falsified by the usual suspects and WWII is no exception. Vilifying the German people is part of that process just as vilifying Russians is now.
Why? Because Germany is now totally enslaved by the Khazarian Mafia whereas a Christian sect ousted the Bolsheviks from the Kremlin in the 1970s and as a result those Talmudic Khazarians have been desperate to recapture Russia ever since.
Next Roger will be telling us that Germany caused WWII and holocausted six million of the three million Khazarians actually in German occupied Europe during WWII; and that Holocaustianity is the one true religion that will save us all.

Posted by: Ron Chapman | Sep 24 2022 11:45 utc | 406

waynorinorway | Sep 24 2022 11:23 utc | 416
You have said ‘This just is not the place for that and there’s too many posters. We all lose when that happens here.Truth is not long-winded.’
I replied one has to put up with them, on this site, one may not exclude them – no one has argued you have to respond or read them
This is a weak argument ? – this is no argument, this is the facts of life
I’m sorry if any suggestion of the possibility of censorship has upset you, but to claim that ‘this’ is not the place for ‘them’ you are sidling towards it
Then consider this – it looks like the mass oppression exercised in the west leads to an almost universal manner of thought and speech which is disturbingly facile and un realistic, indeed very much contrary to the interests of the people – moreover one which imposes wars on the RoW
This, I take it you are a westie, ought to be of some concern – what can be done ?

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 24 2022 12:25 utc | 407

Down with blog clog!
Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 24 2022 9:02 utc | 408
I am guilty as you have charged and shall strive to do better!

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 24 2022 12:55 utc | 408

I am guilty as you have charged and shall strive to do better!
Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 24 2022 12:55 utc | 419
Thank you. Would that others find their way to do that too.
Should I pass your way I’ll bring my bottle of aquavit
and test it against your tequila for the truth of All things.
In the meantime, Peace. And Skoal!

Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 24 2022 13:12 utc | 409

Otherwise, we may as well sit back and compare recipes for dog-burger.
Posted by: Sushi | Sep 24 2022 5:09 utc | 379
This thread is dead now but in a few hours will go back to bevins first paragraph and show why my ignorance of the facts is of no relevance whatsoever to the initial objection to that paragraph nor to your critique though you, as always, make good points.
If you want to believe all the mainstream historians that is your right. Some of them are good. Many of them are sincere. Most of them make false assumptions based on early scaffolding bound together by lies which they take for granted as truth but whose initial form shaped the resultant building and which remains long after the scaffolding is taken away. (I’d put you and bevin in the last group for sure – like nearly each of us – but am not qualified to judge about whether or not you are in either of the first two!)
Decades later they are psychologically and cognitively incapable of deconstructing such an edifice which by now has many extensions and in which so much has been invested. Plus it’s home.
A sure sign of this poor construction is intolerance of dissenting view laced with a tendency to ad hominem by knit-picking or adolescent peer-group tactic of appeal to the group to pile on with condemnation, which some call swarming. All are diminished by such behavior just as all are diminished by war.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 24 2022 13:24 utc | 410

A veritable “cri de coeur”. When you open up like that, it becomes literature at the level of a Jean Cocteau, perhaps infused with a bit of Emerson. Well done, Sir.
Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 24 2022 4:29 utc | 371
Thanks for your kind words, much appreciated.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 24 2022 13:27 utc | 411

Scorpion | Sep 24 2022 13:24 utc | 421
Emphasize!!!
“A sure sign of this poor construction is intolerance of dissenting view laced with a tendency to ad hominem by knit-picking or adolescent peer-group tactic of appeal to the group to pile on with condemnation, which some call swarming. All are diminished by such behavior just as all are diminished by war.”
On the money!

Posted by: DoesItReallyMatter | Sep 24 2022 13:31 utc | 412

but to claim that ‘this’ is not the place for ‘them’
Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 24 2022 12:25 utc | 418
You said, “yet you underestimate or neglect the role of long and endless repetetive phrasing”
I replied, “No I don’t. This just is not the place for that and there’s too many posters.”
Don’t change ‘that‘, referring to long and endless repetetive phrasing, with ‘‘them
and then imply that I favor censorship.
If you can’t understand that I meant there’s too many posters to advocate for long and endless repetetive phrasing
and that b asks that we keep our comments short and to the point then you have nothing worthwhile to say..
Out.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 24 2022 13:33 utc | 413

Ron Chapman@417
Thank you for proving my point. You are clearly an unrepentant neo-nazi and deliver the litany of historical justification for Hitler’s policies as if you had been trained by the SS.
As I predicted it begins with your ludicrous assertion that Operation Barbarossa- years in the planning and well rehearsed- was an improvised response to a surprise attack that Stalin was about to launch.
If I thought that you has two brain cells to run together I would offer you a controlling interest in the Brooklyn Bridge at an incredibly low price. Unfortunately I don’t do business with Nazis.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 24 2022 13:38 utc | 414

Scorpion | Sep 24 2022 13:24 utc | 421
I’m getting involved in your particular disagreements, but you raised some important universal issues.
..which some call swarming.
or Ganging up, or Bullying, or Mobbing, or Hazing, or Ridiculing, or Harassment, or Stalking, and physical or emotional Abuse. eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobbing
Like with narcissism it comes with it’s own version of a distinct lack of Empathy only a group kind. It arises often in academia, in religion, workplaces and community cultures. It creates conflicts, feuds, and if big enough eventually wars.
“Most of them make false assumptions based on early scaffolding bound together by lies which they take for granted as truth …”
That’s a really great line, metaphor. Particularly true about Religions and naturally History, research and the default assumptions of the “high priests/published professors” etc.
What I wanted to particularly say about that is the issue of Lies, or more kindly Distortions of the True facts. The further back those lies occurred the harder it is to overcome and correct them.
That’s all. Good luck resolving your differences of what is the true factual real History.
(You’ll need all the luck you can get – people can’t even work out what is really happening today let alone the deep dark distant past. )
PS they say there are two certainties in life – Death and Taxes. Not so. There are three. Death, Taxes and People Lie.

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 24 2022 13:53 utc | 415

sorry – I’m not getting involved in your particular disagreements……

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 24 2022 13:54 utc | 416

The passing of the referendums to become one with Russia should, imo, in short order make it clear that the Zelenskyy regime, and any regime that follows it, will never get those regions back under their control. Those few within those regions who are under the sway of the Kiev regime would feel more incentivized to leave, and the possibly larger number who currently straddle the fence, on which country they prefer to be a part of, would now be getting serious mental, emotional, spiritual, and physical, encouragements to come to look with favor on uniting with Russia.
All the Zelenskyy regime can offer is more warfare, bombings, deprivations, and hate, while Russia can offer a return to being part of a peaceful community, one where nobody is lacking in the essentials, and where even non-essentials and luxuries are within reach.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Sep 24 2022 14:16 utc | 417

Ron Chapman @403
“D’accord”, as the French would say. “Akkurat” in Norsk. Both words are cognate with the English. The French simply means I’m in accord with what you have written. The English word “accurate” is derived directly from its Old Norse root word. Yes, your posting is accurate, so far as my understanding and researches indicate.
Please do post more information on Urantia. Perhaps just a note on the Ukraine thread, citing your full explication on the general thread would suffice.
You are quite correct in your critique of organized Churchianity. Perhaps you have read the Gospel of the disciple Thomas? References to reincarnation in that gospel and his clear indications that Jesus, the Christed One called himself the “Son of Man” and not the son of “God”. Creator is certainly not the satanical Yahweh, or Jehovah. No creator in his right mind would even consider setting up a “Chosen people”. That meme is purely mythical and NOT mythological.
My term for the religion established for the Roman emperor Constantine, wraps it up in a tight bundle: “The JudieChristie MagickMindfuck.” That false religion was the downfall of the “Pagani” as urban Romans called rural folk who were not only deeply in touch with the natural world as our heritage of creation; but also of our cosmic heritage as exemplified by Stonehenge and many other artifacts which were employed by pre-mindfucked Europeans to study the Heavens. These Real-Eye-Zations were certainly limited to Europeans. Consider the multitudinous pyramids to be found all across the planet.
Observant Christians have long been deluded by a religion which was created to bolster the elite and to keep the mass of the people in “eternal” bondage. Essentially, Western “civilization” is devolutionary and culturally destructive.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 24 2022 14:30 utc | 418

waynorinorway | Sep 24 2022 13:33 utc | 424
I’m not sure a quibble about grammar is going to serve you very well – whether it’s the phrases or the phrasers – same difference, banning one is banning the other, & them will do as much as that to refer to either
I see -for you, it’s merely a matter of manners – you may not ban but you can ask everyone to be polite and keep their comments to a style you like ‘em, which you say is ‘approved’ or ‘requested’
The problem remains the same – in your countries most are propagandised and long winded empty heads of whom you disaprove – yet you will propose no other solution than the trivial
Wake up ! Time to do more than make idle comments on the internet !

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 24 2022 14:47 utc | 419

Wake up ! Time to do more than make idle comments on the internet !
Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 24 2022 14:47 utc | 430
Well you self-righteous internet commenter, you have no idea what I’ve done in
my nearly 80 years on this earth to make it a better place.
Ram it clown!

Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 24 2022 15:54 utc | 420

waynorinorway | Sep 24 2022 15:54 utc | 431
Well your statements are pedantic and impractical – the problem is a large one : your propagandised masses which vote the pols (etc etc) enact the wars and which you not not address – you merely complain how unwelcome their long winded phraseology
A man of action ? I had thought you quibbling, but now I see more like quisling

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 24 2022 16:13 utc | 421

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 24 2022 7:49 utc | 396
LOL!

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 24 2022 16:40 utc | 422

Question:
Do you suppose that MicroN-Utz and Ringtone have the same paymasters?

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 24 2022 17:15 utc | 423

“The only reason for bothering to refute this lie is that it is motivated not by a desire to improve historical knowledge but in order to rehabilitate Nazism and Hitler.”
False. Ad hominem. Nothing to do with facts whatsoever. Didn’t read further and won’t.
#2: “Once again you make the claim, which nobody who is not a Nazi believes, that the Soviet Union was about to attack Germany before Barbarossa.” False. One doesn’t have to be a Nazi to take that thesis seriously.
#3. My objection later worded thusly: “But Bevin’s insistence that the only reason one would hold such a view is to resurrect Hitler and Nazism is petty, wrong, condescending and inappropriate.”
#4. “the only reason for putting forward the views that Nemesis advances would be to ‘let Hitler and his allies off the hook’ of war guilt.” Again, false. Not to mention pompous as usual.
#5. The Venerable Sushi chimes in:
“The extant historical record supports the assertions by bevin | Sep 23 2022 19:03 utc | 215.
[ argument by citing authority without citing anything. Not an argument. An appeal to groupthink and nothing more. ]
“Scorpion | Sep 23 2022 21:34 utc | 266 is a confession of ignorance and can be dismissed. Suvarov’s book is not a simple ‘lie’ as claimed by Scorpion. It is a big lie, a massive falsehood, an intentional distortion of the truth, one that dishonours 25 million lives.”
Ignores the principal objections (cited above). Then gives away his bias: it seems only Russian lives (the disputed 25,000,000 figure) count; German lives don’t count nor any others. Bevin’s thesis is that if I give (tentative) credence to Suvorov that I am morally questionable because of his silly beliefs about it. As I wrote to him, ‘not good enough, do better!’
“Scorpion’s statement: So just dismissing a well-researched and NOT unreasonable alternative narrative as no more than a ‘lie’ shows bad faith. You can and should do better, dear Sir! reflects an intellectual capacity vastly inferior to that of Tom UK.”
As does Sushi’s remark above. Quod erat demonstrandum.
Dear Bevin and Sushi,
leave off trying to tell other people how to think. Disagree with them if you must, but stop lecturing and insulting. You demean yourselves and the general discourse. You have been in this instance, frankly,
TROLLS!!!

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 24 2022 18:02 utc | 424

That’s all. Good luck resolving your differences of what is the true factual real History.
(You’ll need all the luck you can get – people can’t even work out what is really happening today let alone the deep dark distant past. )
PS they say there are two certainties in life – Death and Taxes. Not so. There are three. Death, Taxes and People Lie.
Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 24 2022 13:53 utc | 426
Well said. And well decided not getting involved in my little brouhaha here. One thing I said in there, which is the simple truth, that regarding nearly all the historical issues discussed I remain a convinced agnostic. I did try for a long time to understand ‘what really happened’ but finally gave up. Not only is the truth guarded by endless battalions of lies, but also there is NO single truth. 10 people sitting around a table, even if of the same family and living together for years harmoniously, will rarely agree on all that much, each having their own view. With national and international issues this is multiplied literally by billions.
So I don’t claim to know what happened. I have no belief about any of the major post WWII narratives although I do know that some things people still say happened did not. Research often reveals that things once held up as indisputably factual are either slightly wrong or totally fabricated. These things one can be relatively more certain about. That said, I went through a period decades ago when I tried to figure out what happened exactly once was exposed to a few big lies, but after 2-4 years of inquiry (most of which I can no longer recall after 10 + years of Lyme Disease), I gave up and will never again attempt it. Now am more interested in motivation, general directions and thrusts, civilizational elements and so forth, also how individual dynamics reflect in collective and vice versa. Not politics, or tactics, or historical narratives.
Anyway, thanks for your input.
And I take your point about not knowing what is happening now. Indeed, am interested in history only because it might help interpret the present. Emphasis on the word ‘might!’
Anyway…..

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 24 2022 18:18 utc | 425

@429 aristodemos
Well-reasoned and articulate.
Believe me when I have examined myself to try to see if I have been just a useful tool of Jewish-Babylonian-Khazarians with my Christianity. I understand that Christianity, on its face, is a nice way to be. Consequently, in its Christendom, vile exploiters can rise to the top as we see currently with the Khazarian-globalists.
What better way to keep the goy down by giving them a religion, right? Best, then, to turn back to the noble-pagan side of things with its darwinian-morality.
But if the Pagan way of life was so naturally strong and unmoving, why did it fall to Christianity? Certainly, the emperor could not have forced the entire population of the west to bend the knee to Christ or risk death! Certainly, there would have been pockets of ancient customs and traditions that would survive, just as the Khazarians have managed to survive being thrown out of countries for millenia and persecuted for pulling one over on the economic system de jour.
I do not need to retrace the origins of thought around the Logos with the ancient Greeks through modern Christianity, but I will offer the writings and thought of Soren Kierkegaard, whose breadth and scope of his seminal works this small blog post would prove to be a drop of water into an ocean of meaning and edifying practice by summarizing it.
If I could recommend an offering from him, however, I would say give “Fear and Trembling” a go. The Sacrifice of Isaac shows why Abraham is our Father in faith, and it is not due to blind or dumb subservience to God. The totality of ethical life, of marriage, family, being a pillar of the community, is harnessed and then sublated by the action of the Knight of Faith. It is the ultimate betrayal of the other by obeying the Other. The communion with the Word, with the Logos, requires a betrayal, as Kierkegaard laid out, and how Derrida continued in his thought as our modern Kierkegaardian.
But Abraham before this action WAS a pillar, was a good man, who did not live a life of immediacy. He took his family from Babylon during the construction of the Tower of Babel because he saw the corruption of immediacy, that was without the self-sacrifice of the ethical life, to the goal of usurping God to take his glory.
And it was only in this ethical mode that Abraham existed and so was given the task worthy of him: to sacrifice his own son.
Kierkegaard also thought that Mary, being the Mother of God, was the other Knight of Faith in history. To be given the task to bring the Son of God into the world would ultimately alienate her from her family, her friends, and all others who would heap scorn upon her for claiming a virgin-birth. But still, she agreed to sacrifice her place in the world for an even greater one: to be the Mother of God.
Blessed be Joseph, her spouse, for finding his way to accept this truth.
That’s enough for now. But I appreciate your posts, because, as you can see, the depth of your appeal recoils in me the need further to examine my faith and reaffirm it through thought and writing.
God bless!

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 24 2022 18:35 utc | 426

Observant Christians have long been deluded by a religion which was created to bolster the elite and to keep the mass of the people in “eternal” bondage. Essentially, Western “civilization” is devolutionary and culturally destructive.
Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 24 2022 14:30 utc | 429
I don’t like to say so but I agree.
The sort of Reset our betters have in mind right now doesn’t go nearly far nor deep enough and will probably just be the next iteration of ‘same old same old’ new-fangled funny money and all…

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 24 2022 20:25 utc | 427

Thanks @ Scorpion | Sep 24 2022 18:18 utc | 436
I too have gone through similar trails and gave up, accepted some things we’ll never know. I agree there is no single truth, as such in history best we can do is be ” more interested in motivation, general directions and thrusts, civilizational elements and so forth ” .. iow for me its things like values principles ethics cooperation mutual respect generosity attitudes etc despite any disagreements. not easy. look around. cheers good luck. thanks again.

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 25 2022 0:07 utc | 428

Russian Mobilization makes me wonder if the people crowing about how it shows the Russians are losing, are quite sane. This is 1914 or 1941 all over again. All the cunning strategists ought to have been manipulating the situation to prevent such a monumental event. The foreign policy leaders in the west are depraved.

Posted by: Wokechoke | Sep 25 2022 0:14 utc | 429

@437 And so ends the Gospel of Saint Nemesis. Praise be to God.
No disrespect to whatever your personal salvation beliefs might be but if I needed or wanted to hear stuff like that I am quite capable of going to a church or TV evangelist and listening to a verbose Sermon by any number of presumed know-it-alls.
I do not come here for that so I’ll make as simple and clear as possible – Please keep it to yourself!

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 25 2022 0:16 utc | 430

@438 “a religion which was created to bolster the elite.’
I’m sure somebody will correct me but didn’t Christianity begin as a popular movement on the side of the lower classes…anti authority….maybe even revolutionary. Too bad it got co-opted.
Much like Marxism

Posted by: dh | Sep 25 2022 0:24 utc | 431

Although western media and politicians use vague disparaging terms like ‘staged’ or ‘sham’ referendums, I have yet to hear any of them claim that Russia will rig the vote, or to put out a prediction that the Donbas etc. people would vote for Ukraine if everything were proper and fair. In other words westerners complain about the process but they do not question the outcome.

Posted by: Pavlos Papageorgiou | Sep 25 2022 0:29 utc | 432

@441 seanau
Seems fair to shush the only one defending Christianity in the thread while everyone else here is at leisure to lambast at.
So you fight with all your might to not allow any room in your dialogue with the world for religious views and thought.
You are SOOOOOO original in this world.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 25 2022 0:33 utc | 433

Posted by: GoFast | Sep 23 2022 12:35 utc | 42
Your birth certificate is your parents apology to the world.

Posted by: Jimmy Flies By | Sep 25 2022 1:17 utc | 434

Ron Chapman@417
Thank you for proving my point. You are clearly an unrepentant neo-nazi and deliver the litany of historical justification for Hitler’s policies as if you had been trained by the SS.
As I predicted it begins with your ludicrous assertion that Operation Barbarossa- years in the planning and well rehearsed- was an improvised response to a surprise attack that Stalin was about to launch.
If I thought that you has two brain cells to run together I would offer you a controlling interest in the Brooklyn Bridge at an incredibly low price. Unfortunately I don’t do business with Nazis.
Posted by: bevin | Sep 24 2022 13:38 utc | 425
G’day Bevan,
I do not say that Hitler did not intend to attack Russia.
Rather I am saying that Stalin also intended to attack Germany and Hitler beat Russia to the punch. Arguably Germany’s initial success in Operation Barbarossa evidenced that Stalin was probably over confident, didn’t accept the advice of his generals that the German attack was imminent and hence didn’t allow them to adopt a defensive stance.

Posted by: Ron Chapman | Sep 25 2022 3:53 utc | 435

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 25 2022 0:33 utc | 444
I consider you are all Off-Topic trolling! And abusing your privilege to comment here.
Stop assuming I have read every comment …. yours stuck out with neon lights however.
I then said what I said. Your interpretation and opinion about that doesn’t really interest me.
Deal with it. Maybe even learn from it?
The topic is: historic-context-of-the-referenda-in-ukraine
The matter is closed. Good day to you.

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 25 2022 4:14 utc | 436

SeanAU | Sep 25 2022 4:14 utc | 448
Whoa, so loud ! Surely you’re not telling a fellow commentor what to do and say
You speak in best westie PMC strine – his ‘privilege’
Perhaps you are worried about a different point of view being expressed ? So what if his opinion does not interest you
You need to take a deep breath, then …I do not know all the westie words for it,- acting out, therapy and so on
Cripes and on a sunday too

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 25 2022 4:54 utc | 437

SeanAu@448
Granted, the stated topic Is “historic context of the referenda in Ukraine. The key word is “context”. Context happens to be a very inclusive word. The collective West, whether the U$$A or NATOstan have fallen out of the context of the original roots of the common civilized values based on Hellenic, rather than Hebraic precepts.
Russia, on the other hand, has in a sense reverted to traditional Orthodox and Slavic values. These unifying concepts are quite dissimilar to those of the West, in that the spiritual element was never excised within their traditions. Contrarily, the Romanized West, particularly after the Great Schism in 1060, recognized body and soul but not spirit.
The current battle centering on Ukraine is primarily a spiritual conflict between the traditionalist Russians and the Talmudist dominated Western puppet regimes. By these metrics, it cannot be successfully argued that disputations in the realm of spiritual conflict is outside of the context of the referenda in Ukraine. This may be difficult for you to grasp, Sean, as it may not appear to be as immediately tangible as you might prefer.
Further, may I point out that this particular thread is a bit shopworn and has in its latter stages, not as much traffic as would be the case while many are still posting and seeking input and perhaps answers. So your demurral would have been a bit more to the point if say, it had been presented within the first two or three hundred postings rather than at #448.
That said, I will endeavor to stick closer to the proferred question of the day during the hotter sections of given threads.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 25 2022 5:15 utc | 438

Christ Jesus didn’t incarnate to establish a religion and didn’t. He came to reveal truths lost and corrupted by Pharisees and others over millennia.
Posted by: Ron Chapman | Sep 24 2022 8:23 utc | 409

Astonishingly, early Christians came closest in their community structure to what one would call godless communism in the US.
Posted by: Nobody | Sep 24 2022 8:36 utc | 404
G’day Nobody,
Arguably Christ Jesus and his apostles and disciples adopted a communitarian lifestyle during his three year public ministry.
Communitarian living is not the same as the Khazarian Mafia’s Communist construct. Communism imposes conformity on all individuals within its structure with a core group of controllers directing the thoughts and actions of all members within its centralising ambit. Communism’s core ideology is force and violence which is not dissimilar to the centralised force and violence underlying other Khazarian governance ideologies and political constructs such as capitalism and fascism.
Communitarian communities live in accordance with the Creator’s gift of free will to ensouled HUman (Higher Universal man) beings. HUmans are created to share and care for each other and communitarian communities strive to share, care for, and love all members in the same way that loving families share and care for all their members. To follow Jesus’ teachings an individual needs to strive to serve others more than self and communitarian living assists us to do that.
As an individual and in community life Christ Jesus modelled how life can be and is lived in accordance with the Creator’s divine intentions. THAT was one of the truths Jesus taught and lived.

Posted by: Ron Chapman | Sep 25 2022 5:20 utc | 439

aristodemos | Sep 25 2022 5:15 utc | 450
Thanks for this explanation of the essential dimension of this conflict, more significant than the minor-y one which the westies fixate upon and which take elaborate pains to ignore, such as the commentor you re responding to
Most here are obsessed with a CNN style warporn newscycle in one ear out the next mindset & attitude, which is the equivalent/parallel to the mass submission on display in the west
The real dimension of the conflict is as you state, PP of the RF and other country leaders have expressed similar points of view in slightly different terms
It is the failure even to be able to understand the nature of this conflict that renders so many comments here null and void, or rather timewasting, and results in their same demands for censorship, so frightened are they of multipolar and/or spiritual matters

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 25 2022 5:42 utc | 440

I feel that this represents a check-mate by Russia.
Next move would be direct war.
Biden wont risk it before November.
Then he may be brain-dead enough to risk it, rather than accept defeat willingly. In which case he will accept defeat unwillingly. Is up to his handlers, really.
But also, I would think that Zelensky would see that it is going in reverse at this point.

Posted by: jared | Sep 25 2022 5:47 utc | 441

aristodemos | Sep 25 2022 5:15 utc | 450
Nice try but it is much simpler than you are making it out to be. Occam was a good guy.
The topic is the “context of the referendums” – the article by B was not about ” the context of the original roots of the common civilized values based on Hellenic, rather than Hebraic precepts.”
So I beg to differ. The religious discussions, those specific ones posted here, are off-topic imo. Religion’s influences upon ” referendums” and the subsequent cultural differences within Ukraine may well be relevant, but that mindless disconnected unrelated raving sermon by Nemesis was nothing but off-topic trolling and spam. Feel free to disagree, but I am not shifting on this matter.
If I may add ” context ” is much more an excluded concept. Things that are not part of the “context” ala personal salvation beliefs and love of jesus and abraham was right to want to kill his son etc etc etc etc, are excluded because they are outside the boundaries of “context” and the Topic itself – that is not relevant.
But of course you are still free to disagree with that idea/opinion as well.
Alternatively, fwiw, if I wished to be lambasted relentlessly by atheists I’d go to https://groups.google.com/g/alt.atheism – some people in Ukraine are atheists and they will voting in the upcoming Referendums too. Wow, now isn’t that incredibly significant? No, it is not!
The suggestion or argument that “The current battle centering on Ukraine is primarily a spiritual conflict between the traditionalist Russians and the Talmudist dominated Western puppet regimes” I believe is unsustainable and even if it was ‘true’ it is still utterly irrelevant and off-topic to this Topic about referendums.
Maybe it could fit well in the Ukraine thread? I don’t know. So believe whatever you wish. I’m not buying it myself. Thanks for the reply though. You’ve made your point clear enough. Have a good one. End of story for me, but carry on to your hearts content. I’m truly not interested where it goes from here. Cheers, and thanks for the feedback. I enjoy your commentary here and accept you are being genuine. I am too.

PS re “your demurral would have been a bit more to the point”
I made it clear above so will repeat it for clarity – Stop assuming I have read every comment …. yours stuck out with neon lights however. I then said what I said.
I do not think I need to apologise for, nor explain why, I am able to skip off-topic comments. Telling me I should have acted otherwise is moot. That train has left the station! I am not going to belabor this further.

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 25 2022 6:29 utc | 442

The world is certainly preparing for a nuclear global suicide.
We have to avoid the mass suicide that is oncoming and we have to change the whole structure of the world so that a third world war itself becomes impossible.
If we can make the people of the world… not the politicians, leave them aside, they have the power but without the consent of the people of the world, their power is not of much use.
They can create war only if unconsciously we are ready to commit suicide, if in some way we are supportive to them.
It is our support that has given them power.
If we withdraw our support, their power disappears.
They don’t have any power of their own.
Stop listening when politicians talk, tune out of all legacy news media, they only want to convert you to their sick opinions, to spread their obscene war narratives.
When they talk they want to indoctrinate you, because everybody who has a doctrine is deep down afraid about whether it is true or not.
Politicians are talking to others so that they can believe in what they are talking.
The only way that they can feel that it is true is if they can indoctrinate as many people as possible and can see in their eyes conviction, conversion.
Why until now, is the Western intelligentsia not really fighting back against nuclear weapons?
The problem is that the Western intelligentsia is fed up with life, so there is no real resistance from the intelligentsia against nuclear weapons, against a third world war.
In fact, it seems deep down the Western mind is somehow hoping that it happens soon, because life is meaningless.
Once we can understand the problem clearly that miserable people are dangerous, for the simple reason that they don’t care whether the earth survives or not.
They are so miserable that deep down they may feel that it is better if everything is finished.
Who cares, if you are living in misery?
Only happy people, ecstatic people, dancing people would like this planet to survive forever.
People who are happy, contented, are not the people to be forced to kill other people who have not done any harm to them.
The West is suffering a severe sickness of the soul.
If all of the armies simply say, “No, we are not going to use nuclear weapons.”
If all of the scientists simply say, “No, we are not going to produce any more nuclear weapons.”
If the whole intelligentsia of the world unanimously creates a great uproar!
We need in the world more love to balance war.
We need in the world more creativity to balance the destructive forces.
We need in the world more enlightened people to balance the blind politicians.
If the globalist warmongers have nuclear weapons, then we have to create something equivalent, or more powerful, and enlightenment is certainly more powerful than any nuclear weapon.
There is time enough to withdraw our support; there is time enough to create a non-political humanity.
And the times are such that it is possible.
In ordinary times you cannot convince people to withdraw their cooperation from the politicians, but the times are abnormal and every day the war keeps coming closer.
In this moment, people can choose very easily not to cooperate, because cooperation simply means committing suicide.
We won”t have such an opportunity again.
In the past there was never such an opportunity.
It is not to be missed.
A great adventurous moment is coming close to us, there is nothing to be feared.
Humanity has lived only under the illusion of freedom.
But there is no such thing as freedom as far as the history of man up to now is concerned.
Slaveries have changed, new forms of slavery have taken their place, but freedom has not happened.
Freedom is still a dream.
As long as there is US/NATO political dependence all over the world.
There is no democracy, and there is no freedom.
It is just complete enslavement of the sleeping global masses.
Whenever some illusion is sold as beautiful you want it to be true, you want to believe in it, but whether you believe in it or not, an illusion is an illusion, it makes no difference.
Billions of dollars are being poured into Ukraine with one aim, to destroy Russia, and which Ukraine can never repay, and America never wants them to be able to repay it, so that they remain burdened, under economic pressure.
And America has promised them billions of dollars more in the coming years.
Their whole economy is now in the hands of America.
With those dollars you cannot buy peace, you cannot buy love, you cannot buy silence, you cannot buy compassion, you cannot buy anything valuable.
In fact, accepting those dollars Ukrainians have sold their souls.
If people are really silent, peaceful and loving, they will throw out all of these globalist politicians, who are nothing but warmongers, psychopaths and murderers.
That is the only hope for which people of awakened consciousness go on working.
Freedom is the greatest value and the greatest achievement in life.
Everyone should be free from all kinds of fetters – political, economic, psychological, spiritual.
Unless we can create a world which is really free, we are living only in an illusion of freedom.

Posted by: @lienChrist | Sep 25 2022 6:33 utc | 443

( here is a comment I did not send in because I figured it will not make any difference or lead to any improvements, instead it would only create more unnecessary arguments time-wasting clutter – however, I have changed my mind )
The topic is historic-context-of-the-referenda (sic) -in-ukraine (from page 4)
fwiw, @b, these comments seem to be completely Off-Topic and unrelated in any way to referendums in ukraine ( note https://grammarist.com/plurals/referendum/ )
While obscure WW2 ancient history might be slightly related because it speaks to Russian/Ukraine history itself it is still way Off-Topic imo, but discussing COVID-19 is ridiculous.
From this page 4 alone comes these ‘Off-Topic’ comments so far up to the 350th post- no personal criticism is intended towards any individual – merely a personal observation/opinion:
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 24 2022 2:01 utc | 347
Posted by: Nobody | Sep 24 2022 1:59 utc | 346
Posted by: David Levin | Sep 24 2022 1:47 utc | 344
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 23 2022 23:29 utc | 304
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Sep 24 2022 1:46 utc | 343
Posted by: tonyopmoc | Sep 24 2022 1:11 utc | 336
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Sep 24 2022 1:34 utc | 342
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Sep 24 2022 1:33 utc | 341
Posted by: bevin | Sep 24 2022 0:37 utc | 328
Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 24 2022 1:18 utc | 337
Posted by: daffyDuct | Sep 24 2022 0:55 utc | 332
Posted by: Muthaucker | Sep 24 2022 1:01 utc | 335
Posted by: Roger | Sep 23 2022 23:58 utc | 314
Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 24 2022 0:53 utc | 330
Posted by: polarbear4 | Sep 24 2022 0:46 utc | 329
Posted by: bevin | Sep 24 2022 0:37 utc | 328
Posted by: Tbx | Sep 23 2022 23:37 utc | 307
Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 24 2022 0:33 utc | 325
Posted by: Roger | Sep 24 2022 0:30 utc | 324
Posted by: bevin | Sep 24 2022 0:25 utc | 321
Posted by: ZX | Sep 24 2022 0:07 utc | 317
Posted by: Roger | Sep 23 2022 23:58 utc | 314
Posted by: ZX | Sep 23 2022 22:57 utc | 295
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Sep 23 2022 23:37 utc | 309
Posted by: Tbx | Sep 23 2022 23:55 utc | 313
Posted by: Tbx | Sep 23 2022 22:35 utc | 289
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Sep 23 2022 23:37 utc | 309
Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 23 2022 22:59 utc | 296
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 23 2022 13:59 utc | 75
Posted by: Jusses | Sep 23 2022 23:30 utc | 305
Yeah, that’s 30 in 48 comments (60%) and they aren’t disruptive ‘trolls’ but regulars.
Let us know if you looking for volunteer moderators B. Cheers
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/09/historic-context-of-the-referenda-in-ukraine/comments/page/4/#comments
( Now I’ve done it! – grinning – it’s time for a new article )

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 25 2022 6:43 utc | 444

LienChrist@455
Thank you for an out of the blue, wonderful, heartfelt posting. You speak for multitudes. BE assured that many spiritually developed individuals and even a few associations are attendant on this dilemma. You are most correct in contending that much of the problem we face as a human race is that at least in the Western experience, all too many people are existing rather than living. Meaningless lives is indeed the key. The spiritually bereft.
Currently, we are tap-dancing on a tightrope in this struggle for elementary human survival in the first instance and in a more multidimensional sense, for achieving the Cosmic Consciousness at a higher level than at any time in this Fourth World, as Bucke proposed in his 1906 book: “Cosmic Consciousness”.
Do not get enmeshed in the concept of Armageddon, as is the case with so many “Born-Agains” and suchlike ignorant victims of longterm mind-control tropes and memes. It is much preferable to conceptualize the possibilities of “Apocalypse”. which in the original Greek simply meant “revealing” or even “revelation” of hidden truths and possible consequences of such realizations. We might bear in mind that as posited by the ancient Aryan Hindus in their Sanskrit writings that we currently are living in the denouement of the Age of Kali…the Iron Age…the Age of Destruction and Dissolution. Thinking positively, the dissolution is of this 6,000 year cycle in the precession of the Equinoxes and of our current Age of Pisces and the segue into the developing Age of Aquarius.
As a spiritual seeker you probably will not dismiss out of hand the reality of astrology, which is the study of the Heavens by those of traditional wisdom. We have been victimized in this Age of Kali Roman imperial JudieChristie MagickMindfuck which commenced when the Emperor Constantine’s minions created the “acceptable” Bible and deliberately did not include in that book such original scriptures as the Gospel of Thomas.
That devout Jesusite did not deny reincarnation, nor did he contend that Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins. Remember that the original Jesusites maintained the sign of the Fish rather than the despicable Roman torture device. That signe signified that Jesus the Christed One, was the Avatar of the Age of Pisces…an era which was meant to be one of liberation from the modes of control, but which some 300 years later was coopted when the Emperor struck back.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 25 2022 7:16 utc | 445

SeanAU | Sep 25 2022 6:43 utc | 456
Typical PMC wannabee goon talking up censorship

Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 25 2022 7:17 utc | 446

Just to remind folks that Russia has invited around 1000 independent (ie non-Western) election observers to document and report on that the conduct of the voting and to verify it is fair and above board. Their interim reports show that it is so far. I wonder if the Western media will reveal this little fact.

Posted by: Pancho Plail | Sep 25 2022 8:28 utc | 447

Reaching for psychological and emotional balance in light of discussions surrounding the upcoming referendums in the Ukrainian oblasts. Let’s start with semantics.
Semantics is the study of reference, meaning, or truth. The term can be used to refer to sub-fields of several distinct disciplines, including philosophy, linguistics and computer science.
In cognitive linguistics, conceptual metaphor, or cognitive metaphor, refers to the understanding of one idea, or conceptual domain, in terms of another. An example of this is the understanding of quantity in terms of directionality (e.g. “the price of peace is rising”) or the understanding of time in terms of money (e.g. “I spent time at work today”). When I am depressed why do I feel down?
A conceptual domain can be any mental organization of human experience. The regularity with which different languages employ the same metaphors, often perceptually based, has led to the hypothesis that the mapping between conceptual domains corresponds to neural mappings in the brain. This theory has gained wide attention, although some researchers question its empirical accuracy.
This idea, and a detailed examination of the underlying processes, was first extensively explored by George Lakoff and Mark Johnson in their work Metaphors We Live By in 1980.
She’s hot! He’s like a Greek god!
Conceptual metaphors are useful for understanding complex ideas in simple terms and therefore are frequently used to give insight to abstract theories and models. For example, the conceptual metaphor of viewing communication as a conduit is one large theory explained with a metaphor. So not only is our everyday communication shaped by the language of conceptual metaphors, but so is the very way we understand scholarly theories. These metaphors are prevalent in communication and we do not just use them in language; we actually perceive and act in accordance with the metaphors.
George Lakoff is an American cognitive linguist and philosopher, best known for his thesis that people’s lives are significantly influenced by the conceptual metaphors they use to explain complex phenomena.
The conceptual metaphor thesis has found applications in a number of academic disciplines. Applying it to politics, literature, philosophy and mathematics has led Lakoff into territory normally considered basic to political science.
In his 1996 book Moral Politics, Lakoff described conservative voters as being influenced by the “strict father model” as a central metaphor for such a complex phenomenon as the state, and liberal/progressive voters as being influenced by the “nurturing parent model” as the folk psychological metaphor for this complex phenomenon.
According to him, an individual’s experience and attitude towards sociopolitical issues is influenced by being framed in linguistic constructions. In Metaphor and War: The Metaphor System Used to Justify War in the Gulf (1991), he argues that the American involvement in the Gulf war was obscured or “spun” by the metaphors which were used by the first Bush administration to justify it.
Metaphor has been seen within the Western scientific tradition as a purely linguistic construction. The essential thrust of Lakoff’s work has been the argument that metaphors are a primarily conceptual construction and are in fact central to the development of thought.
In his words:
“Our ordinary conceptual system, in terms of which we both think and act, is fundamentally metaphorical in nature.”
According to Lakoff, non-metaphorical thought is possible only when we talk about purely physical reality; the greater the level of abstraction, the more layers of metaphor are required to express it. People do not notice these metaphors for various reasons, including that some metaphors become ‘dead’ in the sense that we no longer recognize their origin. Another reason is that we just do not “see” what is “going on”.
Propagandists, public relations, social media marketing and advertising capitalize directly on these inherent blind spots.
In intellectual debate, for instance, the underlying metaphor according to Lakoff is usually that argument is war (later revised to “argument is struggle”):
He won the argument.
Your claims are indefensible.
He shot down all my arguments.
His criticisms were right on target.
If you use that strategy, he’ll wipe you out.
According to Lakoff, the development of thought has been the process of developing better metaphors. He also points out that the application of one domain of knowledge to another offers new perceptions and understandings.
Lakoff argues that the differences in opinions between liberals and conservatives follow from the fact that they subscribe with different strength to two different central metaphors about the relationship of the state to its citizens. Both, he claims, see governance through metaphors of the family.
Conservatives would subscribe more strongly and more often to a model that he calls the “strict father model” and has a family structured around a strong, dominant “father” (government), and assumes that the “children” (citizens) need to be disciplined to be made into responsible “adults” (morality, self-financing).
Once the “children” are “adults”, though, the “father” should not interfere with their lives: the government should stay out of the business of those in society who have proved their responsibility.
In contrast, Lakoff argues that liberals place more support in a model of the family, which he calls the “nurturant parent model”, based on “nurturing values”, where both “mothers” and “fathers” work to keep the essentially good “children” away from “corrupting influences” (pollution, social injustice, poverty, etc.).
Lakoff says that most people have a blend of both metaphors applied at different times, and that political speech (advertising and propaganda) works primarily by subconsciously invoking these metaphors and urging the subscription of one over the other. (See there, another metaphor was used.)
Lakoff further argues that one of the reasons liberals, environmentalists, social democrats, the left, have had difficulty since the 1980s is that they have not been as aware of their own guiding metaphors, and have too often accepted conservative terminology framed in a way to promote the strict father metaphor.
Lakoff insists that liberals must cease using terms like partial birth abortion and tax relief because they are manufactured specifically to allow the possibilities of only certain types of opinions. The semantics being applied are not by accident – but intentional. See the success of Cambridge Analytica swinging political tides in social media campaigns.
Tax relief for example, implies explicitly that taxes are an affliction, something someone would want “relief” from. To use the terms of another metaphoric worldview, Lakoff insists, is to unconsciously support it.
Liberals must support linguistic think tanks in the same way that conservatives do if they are going to succeed in appealing to those in the country who share their metaphors.
Lakoff also offers advice about how to counteract politicians’ (and media) lies. He maintains that the act of stating that a lie is false reinforces the lie because it repeats the way the lie is framed. Instead, he recommends what he calls a “truth sandwich”:
1. Start with the truth. The first frame gets the advantage.
2. Indicate the lie. Avoid amplifying the specific language if possible.
3. Return to the truth. Always repeat truths more than lies.

Lakoff calls this a “truth sandwich” even though the baloney is in the middle (and that baloney was another metaphor!) The position of the lie avoids both primacy and recency effects.
When Lakoff claims the mind is “embodied”, he is arguing that almost all of human cognition, up through the most abstract reasoning, depends on and makes use of such concrete and “low-level” facilities as the sensorimotor system and the emotions. Therefore, embodiment is a rejection not only of dualism vis-a-vis mind and matter, but also of claims that human reason can be basically understood without reference to the underlying “implementation details”.
Lakoff offers three complementary but distinct sorts of arguments in favor of embodiment.
First, using evidence from neuroscience and neural network simulations, he argues that certain concepts, such as color and spatial relation concepts (e.g. “red” or “over”; see also qualia), can be almost entirely understood through the examination of how processes of perception or motor control work.
Second, based on cognitive linguistics’ analysis of figurative language, he argues that the reasoning we use for such abstract topics as warfare, economics, or morality is somehow rooted in the reasoning we use for such mundane topics as spatial relationships. (See conceptual metaphor above.)
Finally, based on research in cognitive psychology and some investigations in the philosophy of language, he argues that very few of the categories used by humans are actually of the black-and-white type amenable to analysis in terms of necessary and sufficient conditions. On the contrary, most categories are supposed to be much more complicated and messy, just like our bodies.
“We are neural beings”, Lakoff states, “Our brains take their input from the rest of our bodies. What our bodies are like and how they function in the world thus structures the very concepts we can use to think. We cannot think just anything — only what our embodied brains permit.”
Lakoff believes consciousness to be neurally embodied, however he explicitly states that the mechanism is not just neural computation alone. Using the concept of disembodiment, Lakoff supports the physicalist approach to the afterlife. If the soul can not have any of the properties of the body, then Lakoff claims it can not feel, perceive, think, be conscious, or have a personality. If this is true, then Lakoff asks what would be the point of the afterlife?
Then there is the notion of Framing. In the language of the brain, words and thoughts are defined relative to narrative frames and conceptual metaphors. Maybe for another time.

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 25 2022 9:16 utc | 448

Posted by: Joe9211 | Sep 25 2022 8:35 utc | 461
Well as you say The West has been very very impressed by General Giap who routed US and Australian forces……..
The West is in awe of Taliban and the highly effective war machine they used to defeat both USSR and USA
The West is so impressed with Hezbollah that Israel fare not enter Lebanon nowadays
As you say Wehrmacht was not impressed with the Red Army even after the 6th Army was being marched into labour camps and 91,000 went in and 10 years later 5,000 came out
It is all a matter of perspective…….no one things much of NATO either – hiding behind women’s skirts in Ukraine and letting women fight so NATO can focus on pronouns

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Sep 25 2022 9:18 utc | 449

Obviously holding a referenda in a active warzone doesn’t delegitimize the results of said referenda, the nazi government of Ukraine doesn’t care about russian speakers and will just kill them all in order to get the referenda results they wish, Ukraine armed forces are clearly actively targeting cilivians en mass to demoralize them.

Posted by: Wappius Maximus | Sep 25 2022 10:45 utc | 450

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 25 2022 6:29 utc | 454
Excerpt:
So I beg to differ. The religious discussions, those specific ones posted here, are off-topic imo. Religion’s influences upon ” referendums” and the subsequent cultural differences within Ukraine may well be relevant,…
****************
G’day SeanAU,
Relevance is in the mind of the beholder. If you do not like submissions by others, don’t read them.
Russia’s Special Military Operation (SMO) is not merely a border dispute or local conflict. It is an integral part of a global spiritual war being undertaken by many nations in the interests of this planet and all of her inhabitants. Russia calls its incursion into the Ukraine an SMO because that is what it was until NATO’s overt involvement.
It was a military police action made necessary because the Ukraine has been revealed to be the HQ of the globalist Khazarian Mafia (KM) which was bent on genociding all Ukrainians who objected to its activities. Russia’s task is not only prevention of the continuing genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Donbas and other parts of Ukraine but also it has to eradicate an extensive bio-warfare lab system and misuse of nuclear power production facilities for nefarious purposes. Additionally Russia seeks to eliminate massive KM child and adult sex trafficking and adrenochrome production operations as well as global money laundering, drug trafficking and gun running activities.
Although widely criticised for the care and humanity it has shown to all Ukrainians in its prosecution of the SMO, Russia’s careful prosecution of the SMO evidences the deep moral concerns guiding its actions. As in all serious police actions, some Russians have been killed and injured in the process of minimising harm to others.
Similarly, the careful and proper holding of the referenda demonstrates that Russia is scrupulously adhering to proper moral and legal requirements in its efforts to eradicate the amoral, unlawful and inhuman activities of the KM and its minions in the Ukraine. The KM has not only been genociding Russian speaking Ukrainians,it and its minions have created a festering HQ for the disgusting enslavement, torture and murder of adults and children as well as for furthering global KM activities.
Arguably restricting discussion of the referenda to the direct mechanical, physical and associated military concerns surrounding them doesn’t do justice to Russia’s overall involvement. Russia’s position in the SMO and these referenda is guided by deep moral i.e. spiritual concerns. Failure to see that may limit understanding of the purpose of the SMO.

Posted by: Ron Chapman | Sep 25 2022 12:57 utc | 451

Salaam,the sane and peace loving people’s of the west need to become active now.Neither can they remain silent.The survival of the species depends on them.Recall,VVP stated another war will “not” be fought on Russian territory.

Posted by: qassem | Sep 26 2022 0:26 utc | 452

Russia’s position in the SMO and these referenda is guided by deep moral i.e. spiritual concerns. Failure to see that may limit understanding of the purpose of the SMO.
Posted by: Ron Chapman | Sep 25 2022 12:57 utc | 465
G’day Ron! I have no issue with what you said in your comment. Looks all good to me.
Although “If you do not like submissions by others, don’t read them.” … is a little tricky, because it’s hard to know if you like or disagree with something said until you’ve read. I read yours and liked it.
Some read mine and didn’t agree/like it. It is what happens in discussion forums so it’s hardly surprising and I am not disturbed by it. Thanks for saying hi. Cheers

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 26 2022 3:19 utc | 453

G’day Ron! I have no issue with what you said in your comment. Looks all good to me.
Although “If you do not like submissions by others, don’t read them.” … is a little tricky, because it’s hard to know if you like or disagree with something said until you’ve read. I read yours and liked it.
Some read mine and didn’t agree/like it. It is what happens in discussion forums so it’s hardly surprising and I am not disturbed by it. Thanks for saying hi. Cheers
Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 26 2022 3:19 utc | 467
Thanks SeanAU,
I appreciate your attitude.
You’re right of course. it is hard to know if you like or disagree with a post until you’ve read it.
I was being a bit cheeky,obviously you cannot know how to react to a point of view until you read it. After a while though, I get to ID authors whose views don’t interest me and so I ignore them.

Posted by: Ron Chapman | Sep 26 2022 6:24 utc | 454

Posted by: Joe9211 | Sep 25 2022 7:38 utc | 459
Pick up a rifle tough guy.
Show them how it’s done!!

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 26 2022 6:43 utc | 455

The purpose seems to be legality under Russian law and to further highlight the hypocrisy of the west to the wider world. I don’t believe Putin cares what the west think,given the number of treaties they have ignored ,or broken.One must always keep in mind Putin is playing chess on many boards and they are interconnected to various degrees. Saying ‘Putin is weak’ for not deploying overwhelming force,is myopic overfocus on single board,rather than the ‘game’ as a whole.
My concern is day 5 when there are traditional polls could result in something horrific. Although high turn out to date would mitigate this.

Posted by: Bob | Sep 26 2022 10:27 utc | 456

Excuse the double post but I also wanted to delve into the idea that Kharkov was 100% intentional and served multiple purposes. Obviously Ukrainians in the open are more easily dispatched. But it also sends a rather chilling message to the territories Russia currently defends. “Until you are a part of Russia our continued presence is contingent upon changing objectives”.

Posted by: Bob | Sep 26 2022 10:36 utc | 457