Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 13, 2022

A Peace Proposal For Ukraine

b here:

The text below, an outline of a peace agreement over Ukraine, was send to me by a west-European source that wants to stay anonymous. Its purpose is to begin a discussion about the content of such an agreement. As such it is starting point, not an end result.

I personally disagree with many of its clauses. With some for practical reasons, with others for the legal consequences they imply (III.1).

But one has to start somewhere if one wants to discuss how the war in Ukraine should or can end.


A Peace Russia Should Propose

By RationalPeacekeeper


Nobody knows where this is going to end. The only thing for sure is that the risk of nuclear Armageddon for humanity has increased dramatically. This is insane. At the moment, no party seems to be interested in ending the conflict peacefully. However minute the prospect of settling this conflict may be, and however illusory it might be perceived, it is worth discussing visionary plans on which reasonable people could agree on.

This is a Russian-friendly perspective. People brainwashed with western propaganda will have a hard time to digest it. The objective therefore is not to promote to dishonest catchwords such as “territorial integrity” or “defending our freedom” but to focus on what is best for people’s lives, based on humanitarian principles and readiness for reconciliation.

Such a peace will need international mediation. Since organizations such as the UN and OSCE are western-dominated, a balanced choice of countries has to be made which have kept a neutral status and no interest in continuing the war. Examples, not complete: Turkey, Portugal, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Hungary, India, China, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico. These will be called “peace countries” in the following. This is how a sketch of an agreement could look:

I. Military:
1. General ceasefire
2. Soldiers of peace countries are deployed to the front line after conflict parties’ guaranties.
3. Heavy weapons are retreated at a distance of 30 km from the frontline.
4. Irrespective of details, the overall objectives are transparency of the peace process and to hinder the outbreak of spontaneous hostilities.
5. Peace countries control the ceasefire agreement. Treason of individuals in favor of one of the conflict parties must be severely punished.
6. Conflict parties commit to reveal reconnaissance data when ceasefire violations occur.

II. Territory:
1. Since a referendum with clear outcome has taken place, Crimea remains Russian.
2. The Donbas Republics are recognized, but have to cede a part of their sovereignty to an international administration run by the peace countries. They must be demilitarized.
3. The oblasts Kherson and Zaporizhzhia are under sovereignty and administration of the peace countries for two years and become demilitarized.
4. After two years, a referendum is held to decide whether Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia (each for their own) become independent or remain part of Ukraine. Independence implies the right to become part of the Russian federation later. The anonymous referendum is organized by the peace countries. A majority of 60 percent is required for the decision, otherwise the referendum has to be repeated. After the referendum, there is a transition period in which people are guaranteed a fair compensation for abandoned property.
5. The oblasts Cherniv, Sumy, Kharkov, Dnjepropetrowsk, Nikolaev and Odessa become demilitarized.

III. Politics:
1. Russia acknowledges the violation of international law in 2022, NATO and EU acknowledge their responsibility for the conflict since 2014.
2. Ukraine can politically become a NATO member, but no foreign troops and no missile systems can be deployed on its territory. Ukraine can become EU member.
3. Ukraine’s constitution must guarantee equal rights to all ethnicities. Russian must become an official language.
4. All political prisoners must be released, all parties prohibited since 2014 must be allowed, all media closed since 2014 must become legal again. All laws concerning “collaboration with occupants” must be abolished.
5. Extremism and promoting ethnic conflicts must be punished by law.
6. Ukraine must tolerate access and control of the above regulations by peace countries.
7. Arms control negotiations are resumed.

IV. Economics:
1. Russia pays a significant compensation for civilian casualties, such as 100.000 Euro for each documented victim, distributed over 5-10 years.
2. Russia pays for damaged civilian buildings and infrastructure an amount of 100 billion euros, distributed over 10 years.
Remark: this is not to disregard civilian casualties in Russia or Donbas, but a consequence of the economic realities.
3. NATO/EU and allied countries lift all sanctions against Russia. Russia commits to pre-war obligations.

V. Society:
1. Russia, Ukraine and NATO officially regret the casualties since 2014.
2. Amnesty in Ukraine and Russia for all non-violent criminal offenses regarding the conflict.
3. War crimes of individuals are brought to a court consisting of judges of peace countries. Conflict parties cede their right of prosecution and commit to collaborating in the investigations.
4. All restrictions on media are lifted in Russia, Ukraine and EU.
5. A joint internet mourning site is set up for all victims of the war, to document the horrors of war in the spirit of reconciliation.
6. A commission of historians and scientists working on all controversial events of the past decades, such as MH 17, Skripal, etc. (List not complete!) An annual conference is to held, with open access to anyone interested. All governments commit to disclose relevant information. The objective is to allow for dissenting opinions while following an evidence- based approach.
7. An international political discussion forum, similar to talk shows, with automatic translations and video streaming is established. All countries commit to send high-rank officials and guarantee access to journalists.
8. All parties commit to intercultural dialogue. All travel restrictions are lifted, electronic visas for tourists should be issued on short notice.
9. A permanent commission involving peace countries can propose amendments to this treaty.

To be signed by: Russia, Ukraine, all NATO members, EU members, peace countries.

To reiterate: Given the state of western governments, I have no illusions that they are even faintly interested in implementing such a plan. Public discussion about a peaceful solution must start however.

Posted by b on September 13, 2022 at 9:16 UTC | Permalink

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Thanks for taking the time and trouble of thinking this through. On one point I'd like a clarification:

Release of political prisoners, allowing all political parties etc. This also goes for Russia, right?

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Sep 13 2022 9:28 utc | 1

This misses the point completely. First and foremost, it doesn't recognise that this conflict is between Russia and the West, or more importantly between the uni-polar and multi-polar future. Second, it doesn't recognise the history of this conflict. Finally, it doesn't recognise the realities on the ground.

If this were ever the basis for an agreement it would be, at best, the cessation of hostilities for a couple of years until the West could further provoke Russia.

The simple fact is that the West wants its hands on Russian wealth.

Posted by: cdvision | Sep 13 2022 9:28 utc | 2

Good idea to think about how to bring peace into this matter.

But at the same time not to mention the USA w/ a single word seems to make this proposal a non-starter.

Same for this proposal:

Ukraine can politically become a NATO member, but no foreign troops and no missile systems can be deployed on its territory.

RU will not accept a NATO-membership of 404.

Posted by: Goingo | Sep 13 2022 9:29 utc | 3

Nobody will agree.
Main western players still think, they will win....
Normaly, source is from EU.
In EU idiots still think, Russia invaded Ukraine!
Russia started SMO after 8 years watching how Ukraininian nazis sloughter etnic Russians living in Ukraine... Man had to have patience...
Russia made all efforts to solve issue with political means. And it was betrayed....
There is no match in complete west to Putin and Lavrov. All amateurs...

Bu it is a start.

Posted by: preseren3 | Sep 13 2022 9:31 utc | 4

What a garbage of peace proposal.
It is missing few major points why this war began:
1) Demilitarize
2) Denacify
If any agreement is missing these two, that means Ukronazis will just regroup and same thing will happen again.

Posted by: 11th Guards Sitzkrieg Brigade, Jeff | Sep 13 2022 9:37 utc | 5

The president Putin can immediately resign if Russia gets in position to accept such conditions. Better still, he can start a process of dividing Russia. It would be a clear defeat. Not being able to force Ukraine to stay out of NATO! And "military won't be deployed". What fool can believe in something like that. Step by step, Ukraine would be so militarized that only on paper no NATO troops would be on the Ukraine soil. After all, if Ukraine is in NATO, her troops are NATO troops. They would get best weapons, best gear, best training. Ukraine would became the most militirized society in the world. Number of troops would swell to half a million or more. US would pay for everything of course. And one day, well prepared Ukraine would invite US troops and what would Russia do then if nowadays Russia cannot defeat Ukraine?

Posted by: Lived under US bombs | Sep 13 2022 9:37 utc | 6

IV. Economics:
1. Russia pays a significant compensation for civilian casualties, such as 100.000 Euro for each documented victim, distributed over 5-10 years.
2. Russia pays for damaged civilian buildings and infrastructure an amount of 100 billion euros, distributed over 10 years.
Remark: this is not to disregard civilian casualties in Russia or Donbas, but a consequence of the economic realities.
3. NATO/EU and allied countries lift all sanctions against Russia. Russia commits to pre-war obligations.

What a fc*king load of EU CRAP!!! Why is this even being posted here?!?

How about the 14,000 Russia-speaking Ukrainians who were killed in Donbass??? And the destroyed infrastructure there???

Pepe Escobar has a much more realistic take on "peace proposal" for the Ukies:


Russia during the SMO has been hitting the pain dial between 1 and 2, and once in a while 3.

I goes up to 10.

Hitting Ukro power plants may be qualified as pain dial 4.

The status of the SMO may be about to change - soon.

It will officially become a counter-terrorist operation.

Pain dial will instantly rise to at least 5.

And counting.

Kharkov may have imprinted on the leadership - Putin included, because Yoda Patrushev already knows it, for a long time now - that Russia is at war with the whole collective West.

And you can't win by deploying a mere SMO.

So the SMO will meet its maker.

This is WAR.

Posted by: Sam Smith | Sep 13 2022 9:38 utc | 7

I think the Russian campaign against Ukraine will end when Russia pushes the surrender document across the table for Ukraine's signature.


Posted by: SFC Barry USA RET | Sep 13 2022 9:42 utc | 8

Whoever wrote that must be the last naive negotiator with blindfolds on in the West, probably some EU bureaucrat, if it is not a ruse.

Very large parts of the nation of Ukraine have been filled with so much hate, and large parts in the West with so much hateful self-righteousness, that it is easier to imagine a military coup in Ukraine before anyone with power in the West would acknowledge a mistake.

Posted by: Roland | Sep 13 2022 9:45 utc | 9

Not only is NATO membership for UKR a non-starter, under the Economics section IV - Russia has to pay $100 billion in war reparations and reconstruction but no word on whether the EU and US will be forced to reimburse Russia the $300 Billion that was stolen from it plus interest.

And no NATO country should be allowed to act as a "Peace" country which excludes Italy and Portugal. All members of the Anglo Saxon "5 Eyes" community should also be excluded.

Posted by: thermobarbaric | Sep 13 2022 9:46 utc | 10

Too late.

Ukraine gave it's answer and it was no to negotiations.

The time for negotiations has passed.

Russia will impose terms.

Posted by: Powerandpeople | Sep 13 2022 9:47 utc | 11

LoL Russia would never agree to demilitarise Donbass, allow Ukraine to join NATO ( or EU for that matter ), pay war compensations, free Azov pow's etc.This is not a pro-Russian draft but a sugar coated death pill for Putin's Regime.All those concessions would be considered as a defeat by russian people.If you follow RuWeb the main trend of russian commentators is not antiwar.The main anti-Kremlin criticism is Putin is being too soft and that SMO must be escalated to total war.

This war will grind on for months and months until one side gets exhausted ( economically and militarily).The only thing I find realistic in these proposals is that eventually BRICS peacekeepers will be sent to Ukraine along the contact line.

Posted by: YogiBear | Sep 13 2022 9:47 utc | 12

Here is a modest proposol. Nuke Kiev. The end.

Posted by: Maty | Sep 13 2022 9:47 utc | 13

A high school term paper submitted by a dull student.
The US/West wants 1. Russia subdued and plundered, like in the 1990s. 2. The war must continue to feed the Money Laundering of US taxes through the MIC and into profits and dividends for the 1%. Until then the war will go on. Simple. 3/10. Must try harder.

Posted by: JGarbo | Sep 13 2022 9:48 utc | 14

This is an absurd deal. If Putin accepts it then all the doomsayers here would be right. Total failure for Russia. Deaths in vain.

Here would be my minimum
1. Crimea obviously is Russian
2. Ballots withing 8 weeks of peace deal in Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhia and Kherson, re independence or joining Russia
3. Ballots in Nikolayev and Odessa within 12 months, but only those resident as of 2016 eligible to vote.
4. Russia to pay reparations for any infrastructure destroyed by them in Ukraine,
5. Ukraine to pay for any infrastructure destroyed in all provinces that choose independence starting from 2014
7. Absolutely no NATO presence in Ukraine
8. All minority languages accepted
9. Ukraine can join EU if they will have them

Posted by: watcher | Sep 13 2022 9:49 utc | 15

Would Putin's successor live long enough to implement that? Putin himself would be toast if he even brought it up for discussion, after so many Russian and allied forces have given life and limb to eliminate the Nazi influence within Ukraine.

Without recognizing the justification for the Russian SMO, acknowledging the aggression and murders of forces such as the Azov Battalion and their like, this document is fundamentally a repudiation of Russia and the allied Republics.

Still, it could be useful in that by rejecting it out of hand Putin would have credibility if he made a generous counter-offer as a starting point for negotiating a peace settlement. In the name of Russia and its allies, they could concede the legitimacy, and right to remain in power, of the government that Zelenskyy heads. Given that Russia could conceivably decapitate that government, that would be no small concession.

As to reconstruction, the Russian side could propose that both sides should help with that. But just handing over money to the West so that they get to be seen as the suppliers of aid, and the rebuilding process, is ridiculous. That would allow NATO to insert its people, and to be the paymasters of a new resistance to Russia.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Sep 13 2022 9:50 utc | 16

How hypocritic is one party, Zelensky is sending hundreds of thousands soldiers on the front like "cannon futter" and for each one he wuold like cash 100.000 eur?
This persons, which made such proposal are serious sick.
So, how many is then worth each peson, live burned in Odessa?
There are so many point totaly out of line, that it is not worth to discuss.

Posted by: preseren3 | Sep 13 2022 9:51 utc | 17

With this peace Putin is finished, he will hardly save his skin.

Posted by: Horace | Sep 13 2022 9:56 utc | 18

This site is largely European and North American (plus no end recently of Ukrainian bots who probably also claim to be European). None of the contributors are in any position to suggest a peace proposal, and this proposal is little short of ridiculous. Since when were NATO members 'peace countries'. Only Russia pays economic compensation (due to so-called 'economic realities'), so NATO carries according to the author zero responsibility. I suggest everyone just ignore it and find something more useful to do with their time and energy.
As Gorbachev implied Ukraine should never have existed as an independent country in the borders of the Ukrainian SSR. No settlement will occur until the catastrophe to which it led is rectified.

Posted by: md | Sep 13 2022 9:58 utc | 19

Why would Russia accept this shit? Minsk 3? Serious? It went so good last time. Fuckem. Send Ukraine into the stoneage. All electricity out în the winter, let those fuckers frezze, the rest out to Poland, Germany.... all factories destroyed, no more ukranian economy. Carpet bomb Kiev, Lvov, Ivano etc. Thwn nuke Kiev as a sign of gooodwill. Create a wasteland from the Donbass to the border with Poland. There. No more Ukraine no more problems. Humanitas will not die în a nuclear Holocaust because of that corrupt bandera infested shithole. Ooo Putin harden your heart, send the nukes.

Posted by: Maty | Sep 13 2022 9:59 utc | 20

The premise itself is faulty.

But one has to start somewhere if one wants to discuss how the war in Ukraine should or can end
The Russian armed forces has already started thinking about ending this war, this caused Feb 24. And they have been ending it by the SMO ever since.

Posted by: Poslan | Sep 13 2022 9:59 utc | 21

Let's not forget that the collective west is not interested in peace.
If this had been the case, Minsk2 would have been a success story.
The collective west is out to break and destroy Russia. It is after the Russian treasures to complete their own ideology.
If this proposal comes from the west, they reluctantly admit that matters from 2014 are still debatable, but this is currently being strongly denied.

Posted by: RoseRed | Sep 13 2022 10:01 utc | 22

Sam Smith | Sep 13 2022 9:38 utc | 7

What a fc*king load of EU CRAP!!! Why is this even being posted here?!?

Agreed. All gratuitous horse shit. Talk about using the name of 'peace' in vain!

SFC Barry USA RET | Sep 13 2022 9:42 utc | 8 sees clearly...

I think the Russian campaign against Ukraine will end when Russia pushes the surrender document across the table for Ukraine's signature

Posted by: john | Sep 13 2022 10:02 utc | 23

An interesting post, thank you (as ever).

Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 13 2022 10:03 utc | 24

Portugal, etc. will not be able to enforce peace. In a sense, this is exactly what Russia is trying to do after the other "sheriffs" have abdicated their responsibilities. That is, France and Germany in the framework of the Minsk Agreements.

Posted by: Nomad | Sep 13 2022 10:05 utc | 25

Nothing in here to stop the next US President from trying again.

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 13 2022 10:14 utc | 26

This is a document of RF surrender.

Posted by: Miller | Sep 13 2022 10:14 utc | 27

"This is a Russian-friendly perspective."

I'd hate to see his anti-Russian proposal.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Sep 13 2022 10:15 utc | 28

I really hope Putin will step down(he s a weakling) and a Stalin 2.0 big balls and a huge hunter for ukranian blond will implement what is needed. First a good old carpet bombing for 1 week non stop. Need some low yeald nukes. Then whoever is still alive in that shithole can sign the surender.

Posted by: John | Sep 13 2022 10:18 utc | 29

Nice to see the word "peace" in any connection with Ukraine. However any peace treaty which is based on the fantasy that this is a Ukrainian-Russian conflict is doomed from the start. To have peace, you must have all those involved from the start sitting at the table. Even North Korea got more respect. The solution cannot be found without accepting the causes. You cannot unweave effects without unweaving causes. On a more pragmatic note, this is visibly a Russian submission to the West and restores the unipolar hegemony. Those effects are infinitely larger and catastrophic for all other nations unhappy with US exceptionalism.

Posted by: TPaine | Sep 13 2022 10:20 utc | 30


Posted by: dfg | Sep 13 2022 10:21 utc | 31

The problem with any "treaties" or "agreements" is that they depend on all of the parties being trustworthy. The US currently is famous for ignoring those things that they don't like. Statecraft and diplomacy don't exist in the US.

Posted by: Doc | Sep 13 2022 10:24 utc | 32

The main thing to understand is that any good faith from Russia towards the West has collapsed after the Minsk Treaties fiasco.Lavrov has called US-EU-NATO "agreement-incapable".The Russian perspective of things is that there is no benefit to "kicking the can" and facing a stronger US-NATO-EU Block in 10 years.For the moment they can pound Ukraine to a Gaza-like failed state with almost total impunity and impose their terms.

The minimum things Russia could consent to is :

1)Donbass-Crimea independence.
2)Some kind of Autonomy for Kharkov, Kherson, Zaporozie, Odessa
3)Minority rights for russian-speaking populations ( education, quotas in state and army apparatus )
4) Demilitarisation ( a roof of 50-100.000 personnel )
5)Complete and utter neutrality.No NATO, no EU, no foreign bases, no biolabs, no foreign advisors,no joint exercises.
6)Complete prosecution of Bandera Ideology and restoration of banned political parties (Communists, Pro-Russian etc)
)Some kind of EU-Russia joint reconstruction of the country's infrastructure where Russia rebuilds the eastern regions.

Posted by: YogiBear | Sep 13 2022 10:24 utc | 33

The Western goal is to complete what they didn't managed to do in WWII and take over Russian natural resources.

Even symbolically they are not hiding it anymore - you see Western machinery with Nazi crosses on it with Western mercenaries in it roaming the countryside around Kharkov...

Such a peace treaty is therefore a defeat for the Russians, as it does not address the problems of the loss of strategic depth after the USSR collapse and does not eradicate the Nazi presence in Ukraine, meaning that another war in the not too distant future is inevitable.

The only stable peace is complete defeat for one of the two sides.

If Ukraine is defeated, this means the new borders are no further east than Zhytomyr and Vinnytsia (perhaps Poland takes the bait and absorbs the rest) and then the slow process of de-Ukrainization begins (if de-Russification managed to get this far, de-Ukrainization, given 50-100 years, will succeed too).

If Russia is defeated it is hard to see how we are not all dead because the nukes are all launched unless there is internal treason at the highest level in Russia. And that will be a very, very stable outcome indeed...

Posted by: Tbx | Sep 13 2022 10:25 utc | 34

You still do not understand and quite frankly i think you never will.

This is NATO's war now. So who should russia negotiate with? NATO ?

And it is NATO's last war they will ever fight. And it will not end in negotiations. You do not negotiate with insane suicidal people. And NATO has gone insane. And they are committing suicide. And their peoples keep silent.

So be it.

Posted by: Franz Beckenbauer | Sep 13 2022 10:26 utc | 35

The only thing I'd do with that peace deal is wipe my arse with it.

Posted by: Badrabbit | Sep 13 2022 10:31 utc | 36

An impossible proposal. But even something as empty as this would be useful, if for no other reason than to give the other side the opportunity to outline grievances; not that the empire is unaware of Russia and the Global South's grievances (the conflict in Ukraine is an inevitable outcome not just of the treatment of Russia, but all those of us outside of the West), but the elites aren't the ones who it needs to be ensured understand what this war has been about.

In reality though, peace will probably only comes when Ukraine and her sponsors have their capacity for war-making taken away.

Posted by: GrimmBot | Sep 13 2022 10:32 utc | 37

Those regions already assimilated into the Russian federation isn't going back. Ukraine and the west has shown they're agreement incapable. This ceasefire will be as good at Minsk 1 & 2. GG

Posted by: Nonsensical | Sep 13 2022 10:36 utc | 38

Meanwhile the Guardian lies its head off, or repeats uncritically Ukrainian lies.

Ukrainian intelligence believes that Russia is preparing to renew its attacks on the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant as part of the Kremlin’s efforts to target Ukraine’s infrastructure, specifically the country’s energy system. This comes after two days of Russian shelling knocked out power to much of Kharkiv. Any kind of attack on the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, Europe’s largest nuclear reactor, could have catastrophic results for the region.

Translating, it sounds as if Ukraine are preparing another attack, hoping to unleash a disaster, at which point NATO may "reluctantly have to get involved".

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Sep 13 2022 10:38 utc | 39

Peace will not be the end result of the Ukraine/Russia conflict.

Instead the Russian Bear will arise after it has 3 ribs in its mouth and devour much flesh (Daniel 7:5).

The 3 ribs could be Crimea, Luhansk, and Donetsk. If so, then soon after the entire Donetsk is taken by the Russian Bear, Babylon USA will be destroyed in one hour.

All this could happen within the next 3 months. Best to get out of the USA soon and away from any NATO military base especially if it has nukes.

Posted by: young | Sep 13 2022 10:38 utc | 40

Very naive proposal. As a matter of historical facts, treaties are used to buy time and delay the inevitable. The Minsk agreement was enacted twice, yet look where we are. The Iranian nuclear agreement was signed after years of negotiations, yet it took one fool in the White House and now we’re back from where we started.
The only solution to this conflict is for Russia to finish what they started. Then offer Ukraine a peace deal based on, crimea is off the table, no NATO anywhere on Ukrainian lands. The Donbas can chose their destination after 10 years. Ukraine must be demilitarized for 10 years. This would be the starting point.

Posted by: Brad | Sep 13 2022 10:41 utc | 41

This is not a viable, or realistic, proposal.

Russia has not gone through the SMO to "admit they violated international law in 2022" (why?), and leave vast swathes of the Country demilitarised and open to all sorts of dirty tricks. There are no credible "guarantors", either.

The reality is, and the future will be, much simpler: Russia takes what it wants to take. Ukraine keeps what Russia allows it to keep. End of.

The US will lose. They are accustomed to it. They'll get over it in no time, or prepare themselves for the next defeat.

Posted by: Alexander P | Sep 13 2022 10:44 utc | 42

Wait until Turkey opens the Bosphorus when Russia intervenes in Armenia.

How will Russia interdict weapons when they’re directly offloaded in Odessa by the US navy?

Posted by: Johnycomelately | Sep 13 2022 10:45 utc | 43

The only interesting thing about this proposal is that it was written and published. This would not have seen the light of day a month ago. That it has, tells you everything about Russia’s position in the conflict with Ukraine.

It is losing.

The knock on effect of this ‘reputation bleed’ will be future unrest in the bordering countries within the Russian sphere of influence and can be seen in the current outbreak of hostilities on the Armenian/Azerbaijani border.

Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 13 2022 10:45 utc | 44

Its too late for such a plan.

Ukraine should have bided by the Minsk agreements and NATO should have took the Russian proposals for a new security structure seriously in december 2021.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Sep 13 2022 10:46 utc | 45

What a garbage of peace proposal.
It is missing few major points why this war began:
1) Demilitarize
2) Denacify
If any agreement is missing these two, that means Ukronazis will just regroup and same thing will happen again.

Posted by: 11th Guards Sitzkrieg Brigade, Jeff | Sep 13 2022 9:37 utc | 5

But that is the point for the proposal, isn't it? Like in 2014 and 2015. Just on a broader scale.

The only reason for the Minsk agreements was to give Ukraine time to regroup. And Germany and France knew that, and actively supported that. Neither France, Germany, nor Ukraine ever intended to honor the agreements. This time, the West needs to regroup, needs time to sort out its economies, and build up its armies.

The West thought the war would be over before summer ends. It's not only running longer, and proving more costly than they expected, it might cost them Ukraine - which is no longer a state but a zombie on life support, a life support that threatens to suck its donors dry.

Posted by: Martina | Sep 13 2022 10:47 utc | 46

@42 Really? If the total figures were even close to being true, then Russians would already be sitting down to lunch in Kiev.

Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 13 2022 10:50 utc | 47

Is it a coincidence this comes just before the Great SCO Assembly?

A nuclear conflict that is threatened by the rulers of 15% of humanity that would destroy not just themselves and the the majority of the other 85% and all life on Earth and oceans?

What kind of weird cutting off one’s nose to spite their own face threat is that?

The main guarantor of peace keeping should of course be China and some independent African countries. They after all will be owning the rest of this century and the next.

What legal force and power would they have to maintain any agreement?

Will the Collective Waste give up its Nukes and Offensive Weapons?

How would ideological brainwashing and supremacist thinking be outlawed and punished?

Will all the Wealth and lands stolen or owned or earned by the powerful through laws and rules they made up be sequestrated from them? Will the ruling tribal kings of deserts be dispossessed? It must be!

Peace can only be negotiated after victory and defeat. The last time that happened in Europe we ended up with the death of Yugoslavia and the time before with the endless occupation by US forces and spread of thousands of bases across the planet adding to the ancient Imperial conquests.

The only Enduring Peace will come when the Primal Power of the Ages is displaced and all its High Priests and psychopathic servants and lineages are dispossessed of their ill gotten gains and privileges and their palaces and churches and shackles of Money are rubble.

That my dear friends is the Ancient City.
It is greater even than the Crown of England - every year it requires the Regent of the day to request permission to enter its boundaries and be invited to dine there. And it has its ever chosen Remembrancer overseeing all the actions of that State and all others they have created through the ages under whatever Royal Households with the deliberately misnamed ‘National’ Banks.

These that have refused have always been targeted and their leaders brutally murdered.

A Grand Peace needs to address all these old crimes , the stolen gold of Venezuela, Iran, Etc and many other such injustices .

The crazy bastards cannot have a say in the justice that will be dispensed upon them and their dynasties. If we have to start from somewhere. It should be there. The document is a springboard - not the final agreement.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Sep 13 2022 10:51 utc | 48

It sounds to me like whoever wrote this wants Russia to capitulate.

Not a mention of the Minsk Treaty.

Utter garbage.

No historical team is required to investigate the responsibility for MH17, it is patently clear who the culprit is.

This is bullshit.

FUKUS/NATO have been pushing Russia back into a corner since the collapse of the USSR.

It’s time for Ru to remove the gloves & end this soon, seize the terrain to the Dnepr, Odessa & secure Transinistra & destroy what remains of the Ukrainian Military & economic capability. Turn what remains of the Ukraine into a pariah state & cut it loose for the EU to sort out.

Turn off all the oil & LNG.

See how they like all those apples.

Posted by: Per Terram | Sep 13 2022 10:54 utc | 49

This is all a result of something I noted many months ago, namely lack of clear war goals from the outset.

"SMO", "Demilitarisation", "Denazification".

All vague terms which can mean anything. SMO a way of weaselling out calling a spade a spade.

Thus you have hysteria in the West as people assume Putin is going to take over all of Ukraine, genocide all Ukrainian speakers, and then move on to Poland, only stopping in Lisbon.

On the Allied side, confusion reigns as no-one knows how far they are expected to go or what they are fighting for.

By the way, I like to repeat this, months ago I predicted the Ukrainian war strategy of throwing cannon fodder to slow down the Russians while building up a huge force in the rear for a counter-offensive. This was while "alt-media" commentators were bloviating complete nonsense. People here ridiculed me for being a "concern troll". I'm sure b can find the old posts, I am not bothered to try to search for them.

Putin government seems to have a big problem with straightforward communication. In war people need clear goals and straight talk.

Putin should have said:

"We are stepping in to Ukraine to end a civil war that threatens to escalate to massive ethnic cleansing and a revival of fascism.

After liberating all of Donbass and Luhansk Republics, we will take over all remaining oblasts east of the Dneipr and the Odessa oblast and place them under temporary Russian administration.

These oblasts will then 6 months later have a referendum on whether they wish to be part of a new "Novorussian" state, part of the RF, or return to Ukraine, under international supervision.

Our only demand of Western Ukraine is to cease any military attacks on these territories after we achieve these goals.

Should Western Ukraine continue to attack our forces we will destroy the military units committing these attacks.

Western Ukraine is free to join any organisation or alliance it likes, except NATO for a minimum period of 10 years. A treaty will be signed guaranteeing that no long range missiles or WMDs may be based on Western Ukrainian soil."

Then, Putin should have made sure to have all the forces required to actually do this.

Now, people are talking about parallels to Milosevic. A dangerous time.

The proposal is somewhat naive and disingenuous, while well intentioned, which means it comes from some functionary or diplomat from old Europe, possible Italy or France. Certainly the German Mittelstand would love to get back to "business as usual".

The obvious issue with the proposal is that the EU / US / NATO would never enforce their side of the bargain, so any bright human rights respecting future in Ukraine would be progressively demolished by fascists - naturally infuriating Russians.

Thus we would have an interwar period similar to the 1920s/30s until total chaos. Russians would correctly see oligarchs and siloviki accepting the proposal as a "stab in the back", which means a radical nationalist would take power and start an even worse spiral of destabilisation.

And of course, the West now believes they are winning easily and the RF is on the verge of collapse, so such proposals would not be seriously offered in any case. Even though it would be in their interests to do so - it would at least split elite opinion in Russia and paralyse decision making (further).

Just as it would have been in their interests to rein in the insane jingoism in their mass media, and as it would have been in their interests to not impose "boomerang" sanctions.

The leading Topic on Twitter at the moment is something about "Russian Troops fleeing in Panic". The news presenters on the radio lead with the stunning victor of thousands of square kilometres liberated from the Putin Regime.

The basic responsibility lies in the US - saner people there need to turf out the neocons (who appear to all be on some cocktail of drugs) and accept a more equitable world order via usual diplomatic channels. It is not that hard. They can then find a better solution to the declining rate of profit than whatever delusional and dangerous stuff they are cooking up in Langley and Davos.

Posted by: moaobserver | Sep 13 2022 10:54 utc | 50

Hi! Long time reader and first time poster here. I’m Russian, not a hardliner, and this proposal is absolutely unacceptable even to me. Great comments here - too many to list them all. They pretty much reflect many glaring issues, how this proposal would be met in Russia and what “success” it would yield. I love how US is barely even mentioned, it’s even surprising that they aren’t included in the list of peace countries. LOL

Posted by: wasilix | Sep 13 2022 10:56 utc | 51

Rational Peacekeeper's proposals would be impossible to carry out because they assume a select group of countries can be chosen to be neutral mediators between Russia and Ukraine. In reality, there would be very few nations that can claim to be neutral between the two, especially one of the parties in this conflict is backed by nations that are former colonial powers in Africa and Asia and which still exercise much political and economic influence over their former colonies.

The proposals also assume Russia is the aggressor nation and they put the burden of reparations on that nation. That assumption makes these proposals worthless. If there are any nations that should assume the burden of cleaning up the damage and rebuilding Ukraine, those nations should be the ones who have been arming the Banderite nation, training its soldiers and egging on President Zelensky to continue hostilities instead of negotiating peace with Moscow.

Posted by: Jen | Sep 13 2022 10:58 utc | 52

The winners make the rules. Gorby offered peace, VVP offered peace, the DoodleDandies didn’t want peace & don’t ever want peace without taking the treasure. Until the Empire is defeated at home there will not be serious peace in a world for us all. So sorry but 250 years of evidence is hard to ignore

Besides, the West’s rampant capitalism has made huge moneys from their century of war & destruction of the environment, our life on earth

Said before, say again. Zionism destroys everything it touches, everything, no exception. It owns the 20th century the US, the UK & the West, not sure about the RF yet, it will show if so. Enjoying chaos yet?

Posted by: sadness | Sep 13 2022 10:58 utc | 53

This is like NAZI-Germany seeking peace in 1944 or 45.

The Ukraine army is a spent force. The last reserves thrown into the meat-grinder.

The artillery advantage of Russia 10 to 1 has taken its toll on the Ukrainians, and in the last desperate attempt to change the inevitable result, Zelensky chose to strike out..

First into a brick wall t Kherson, then into an "empty" area at Krakow, without regular Russian army units present. Meanwhile 30-40% of the Ukrainian reserve got wasted... strategically for nothing really.

Now the Russians are going to intensify the conflict further and the Ukrainian army and economy are going to break before Christmas. Why should Russia negotiate?

Posted by: Bjørn Holmgaard | Sep 13 2022 10:59 utc | 54


"Ukraine can politically become a NATO member, but no foreign troops and no missile systems can be deployed on its territory. Ukraine can become EU member."

Unrealistic. For, say, two, three years, the ban on NATO foreign weapons holds. Then, through some manufactured crisis or other, American nukes are positioned in Ukraine. In other terms, that proposal is DOA.


"Russia, Ukraine and NATO officially regret the casualties since 2014."

But not pay any compensation, whereas Russia should? Please.

Posted by: Corinne | Sep 13 2022 10:59 utc | 55

Unfortunately negotiations are not with "Ukraine" or "Zelensky" or UN is not intermediating, the negotiation is with the US military industrial complex and its collection of swamp bots. The collective borg structure most likely is not interested in peace. It's like a multi headed monster which absolutely will not stop, until all limbs are cut off. Wish it was different. They are openly painting the nazi wehrmacht black-white crosses on vehicles now.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 13 2022 11:03 utc | 56

Load of crap

Posted by: SS | Sep 13 2022 11:03 utc | 57

This is a weird peace per se:
There is a war going on and we the posters here have absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of this war whatever they write here. Both sides decide on their war aims, their campaigns to win it and when they think it is wiser for them (not for us of course) to end the war. Whether there will come a mere cease fire as in Korea or even a peace treaty we will see but cannot influence. Thus this proposal is as useful as proposals for the wardrobe of a star at the Emmy-event. They simply do not care.

Posted by: Neoprene | Sep 13 2022 11:04 utc | 58

The thing lacking in this screed is Trust.

After all the lost opportunities and double dealing by the West, none of the above proposals has any validity. (Non-agreement capable US)

Restart with trust building. Even a "cease fire" would probably be broken by Zelensky, before negociations start. Definitely the US would ignore such a "treaty" if it thought it could gain a small advantage.

The CIA/US who are training future "regime changers" as "Belarussian girls", (who don't have Belarussian dialects), in Poland, should also be included. Anything less than a comprehensive treaty that includes sanctions, delivery of new weapons, the EU "lamentablerate", and the US being involved, - does not fulfill the conditions of an equitable treaty. But that is not the point is it? This example hides the fact that it is seen as a way to defeat Russia "Legally" in a future "rules based order"..... run by the US.

Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 13 2022 11:06 utc | 59

@55 The Ukrainians are clearly not a spent force, they are not a spent force after 6 months of conflict. Spent forces do not advance. They retreat, or collapse.

Reality is what it is.

Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 13 2022 11:07 utc | 60

To read the proposal is to understand how divorced from reality it is. I am heartened by the growing understanding that the Ukraine war (SMO) is not about Ukraine. It is about the future of global power structures, and control of resources in an increasingly resource constrained world.

Posted by: Ross | Sep 13 2022 11:15 utc | 61

Posted by: Bjørn Holmgaard | Sep 13 2022 10:59 utc | 55

Correct, no Russian regular forces in Krakow.
But do you have sources/links about ' 30-40% of the Ukrainian reserve got wasted'?

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Sep 13 2022 11:15 utc | 62

Unfortunately, the West - or rather the powers that run the US - is not the least bit interested in peace. They're not interested in anything regarding Ukraine as a country, either. The want Russia defanged, declawed, depowered and turned into some sort of self-service store for Western powers. That was the whole purpose behind this whole Ukraine charade and the ceaseless movement of NATO against Russian borders that preceded it. Whether that big goal will be achieved by destroying the Russian Federation and carving it up, as this General Whatshisname further up dreams about, or if the so-called 5th column manages to install a West-friendly Yeltzin clone, doesn't really matter to them. Ukraine is nothing but a tool. Besides, the USA honors their treaties, contracts and agreements only for as long as they can profit from them. If no further profit can be made, their word isn't worth the paper it was written on. Ask the Natives. Russia really should have learned that by now.

I don't know anything about military stuff, I'm just the proverbial little old cat lady here, but I'm worried. The way I see it Russia isn't fighting for any goals in or about Ukraine, but for her very own survival. Ans she fighting against an enemy that has nothing to lose, since the Western World has its own crap imploding in its hands. They should've been dead in the water since 2008. They will fight like a cornered, rabid rat. Russia cannot make any peace proposals. They have to win or else.

But then, what do I know? I'm hoping I'm just being dramatic here.

Posted by: Kath | Sep 13 2022 11:22 utc | 63

Partition Ukraine simple

Posted by: Sam | Sep 13 2022 11:23 utc | 64

Yeah, demilitarize the Donbas, Luganski and Kherson. But not Ukraine. Because as we know, Ukraine and NATO have a longstanding tradition of respecting agreements.
This is completely stupid.

Posted by: Marcos E | Sep 13 2022 11:27 utc | 65

The only interesting thing about this proposal is that it was written and published. This would not have seen the light of day a month ago.

Posted by: Tom UK | 45

Yeah, right. Same crazy crap has been thrown around for months. By same people, by the way.

Posted by: Poslan | Sep 13 2022 11:35 utc | 66

There will be no chance for peace until NATO forces are defeated militarily on the battlefield. Any Ukrainian leader who tries to negotiate peace will disappear and any dissenting voices in Ukraine will be silenced.

IMO the best scenario for real peace is for the USA / Uk to get their wish and Putin steps down only to be replaced by a hard liner who will drop the gloves and turn Ukraine into a wasteland.

If Russia allows the battlefield to go static over the winter the USA / UK will have time to train Ukrainian pilots on US aircraft and specialists on all classes of NATO weapons and systems and at that point Russia will be forced to either go to full blown war against NATO forces or retreat in defeat.

I have never wanted war. I had hoped this scenario would never happen but the Russians are losing control of this situation. I understand that Russians are excellent strategists and in some senses time is on their side but Americans are ruthless, have deep pockets and believe that this is their chance to defeat Russia militarily, "occupy" Russia politically and put China in a box

Posted by: Hb_Norica | Sep 13 2022 11:37 utc | 67

The feeling I get from this, and hopefully I'm wrong, is that nobody's going to seriously talk peace until the first nukes fly. And by that point it may be too late.

Posted by: ZX | Sep 13 2022 11:37 utc | 68

This special military operation is not specifically about Ukraine but about the security guarantees and European security treaty that Russia outlined in December. Towars that goal de-NATOizing Ukraine is the primary Russian goal (demilitarizing and denazifying)

Ukraine just happens to be the current opportuntity through which the US and NATO are attacking Russia.

Erdoğan wants Putin to meet Zelensky. Zelensky is irrelevant. In fact, for peace, Russia needs to discuss peace with the leaders of the US/UK and EU. The latter are cleariy the real aggressors in this war.

This means focusing on verifiable security agreements and arms treaties between Russia and the West. None of this is discussed in this non-starter of a "peace proposal". Are you sure Poroshenko isn't the author?

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Sep 13 2022 11:39 utc | 69

I don't get it, what exactly does Russian Federation lose under this proposal?

Posted by: Kratovič | Sep 13 2022 11:40 utc | 70

The proposal contains lots of absolutely unacceptable clauses.

However we must accept the fact that Russia's position is slowly degrading. The Ukie Kharkov victory came right on cue, now all Western countries are re-energized and already talking about providing AA defense as well as fighter jets.

I have no doubt that in a few months or years, Ukraine will get F-16. Ukie AA defense is already quite good and sufficient to repel Russian Air Force, as evidenced by their glaring absence and lack of impact. What Ukraine was missing was attack aircraft, and they will get it ; and I am sure that they will inflict quite a lot of damage.

Artillery-wise Ukrainian supply seems plentiful as ever, as evidenced by their heavy bombardments over all the line of contact. New Excalibur rounds as well as ATACMS will give the Ukies an ever greater advantage.

If I were Putin I would try to call it a day and move over to erecting heavy defense fortifications everywhere. It's clear now that Russia does not have the means to go further. I would fortify wherever I can. Thorny issue being Donetsk, where 6 months of effort have barely had an impact on Ukie ability to shell Donetsk.

I would also tell the Ministry of Defense to cut the bullshit with their daily briefings, which get more laughable by the day, by the way. And then ideally shoot or push out half of the incompetent and corrupt assholes in the army and the ministries, and try to remake an effective force out of the Russian army, which would probably take 4-5 years.

Most of the people here react outraged because they are still under the illusion that Russia can decide this conflict on its own terms. It's time to recognize that this is not the case anymore. Russia is simply not in a position to inflict a decisive blow on the Ukies. It is not even able to stop shelling on its border towns. Something has to change, or everybody will notice the decrepit state of the Russian army and the threat will become strategic.

Posted by: Micron | Sep 13 2022 11:41 utc | 71

61 Tom UK

"spent forces do not advance"

Not strictly true, history's full of "one last throw of the dice" attacks. The Ludendorff offensive in March 1918 was one, the Battle of the Bulge in WW2 another. Germany was so chuffed with Ludendorff they declared a national holiday as their guns shelled Paris. But eight months later they were signing surrenders.

Reality is indeed what it is.

But I feel really bad for those poor civilians left at the mercy of Ukraine's troops. When Sevierodonetsk was taken, a middle aged woman hugged the soldiers and said "please, please, don't leave us again" as happened in 2014 when Ukraine took some DPR land.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Sep 13 2022 11:44 utc | 72

My three-step peace plan:

1)Russia attacks weapons deliveries BEFORE they reach the Ukraine
2)The deliveries stop

Posted by: Donbass Lives Matter | Sep 13 2022 11:44 utc | 73

III. Politics: 1. Russia acknowledges the violation of international law in 2022, NATO and EU acknowledge their responsibility for the conflict since 2014.

Why would the Russian Federation agree to this, since they did not violate international law?

In 2014 the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts declared independence from Ukraine. Ukraine's response was to launch a military campaign against the newly declared republics.

On Monday 21 February 2022 Russia recognized the independence of the two republics and signed agreements for military co-operation. The Donetsk and Luhansk Republics requested aid to fight off the Ukrainian invaders. This is in line with the right to self defense under Article 51 of the UN Charter.

On Thursday 24 February 2022 the Russian Federation sent its forces into Ukraine. This was in-line with its agreement with the Donetsk and Luhansk Republics.

Since Donetsk and Luhansk were:
i) independent republics recognized by the Russian Federation;
ii) had a valid military agreement with the Russian Federation;
iii) were engaged in a war of self defense against Ukraine, which had been attacking them for the previous eight years;
iv) invited the Russian Federation to aid them, as per the military agreement;
v) and the Russian Federation sent it's forces into Ukraine as part of the aid;
vi) the action is legal under international law.

Since this proposal declines to recognize that and instead chooses to spin some alternate universe version of events, it's pretty much a non-starter.

Further, since the Ukraine and the West in general have repeatedly shown themselves to be incapable of abiding by their agreements — non-expansion of NATO, Minsk 1 and 2 — the Russian Federation would be extremely foolish to go along with this.

You only get one Gorbachev, and the West has already had theirs.

Posted by: Kukulkan | Sep 13 2022 11:44 utc | 74

Russia does not have the means to interdict weapon deliveries before they reach the Ukraine. They simply can't.

Posted by: Micron | Sep 13 2022 11:45 utc | 75

At least the author was smart enough not to admit who they are!

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Sep 13 2022 11:46 utc | 76

@ Posted by: ZX | Sep 13 2022 11:37 utc | 69

Whoever fires the first nukes will forever be known and reviled.

Even if it’s some crazy general Jack D Ripper type proxy. These peoples will always be hated by any future human civilisation. None of their existence will be allowed to perpetuate. They will be pulled out of their deepest bunkers and destroyed.
Their dna will be purged from life on Earth and nothing will be remembered of them.

That is the only Punishment they understand that may stop them committing that final Crime.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Sep 13 2022 11:49 utc | 77

For what it is worth;

I happen to think that Ursula made a really good job of this first draft.

There has been bit of input from Trampolina, obviously, but otherwise this should do the job and solve the crisis...

Posted by: Lapin | Sep 13 2022 11:50 utc | 78

Such rubbish!
Who what idiot thinks Putin would recognize something like that?
With that, Russia would be widely exposed to the ridiculousness of the world and the West would not fall asleep laughing !!
Zelenski would take off!

Posted by: Mo3 | Sep 13 2022 11:51 utc | 79

NATO will continue to escalate until it feels threatened to de-escalate. Therefore, the only way Russia can win is by threatening NATO.

Posted by: Donbass Lives Matter | Sep 13 2022 11:55 utc | 80

And you think Russia will start discussing with this kind of proposals?
The most funny is Economics, 100’s of billions on top of already stollen 300 billions!
Sure OTAN weapons did not kill people and did not destroy infrastructures, buildings.
But OK, concerning compensations, let’s start with USA, UE, Israel in Irak, Syrie, Lybie, Palestine, ... list is long.
Do not forget to propose sanctions on USA, UK for the documented lies at ONU concerning the Irak mass destruction weapons, the 500000 deaths (Madeleine Albright), Obama’s assassination with drones, ... long list.
If such a plan aiming to demonstrate virtue of theses countries is proposed, let’s go with the above proposal.

Posted by: FromFrance | Sep 13 2022 11:57 utc | 81

Russia is simply not in a position to inflict a decisive blow on the Ukies.

Posted by: Micron | Sep 13 2022 11:41 utc | 72

This is empirically false though.

Literally thousands of missiles have been sent against targets in Ukraine at this point.

The whole command structure of the Ukrainian state together with the NATO intelligence centers, etc. could have been taken out many times over with a fraction of that resource.

If all the generals and politicians are dead, and the NATO personnel inside the country is vaporized, how long will the Ukrainian army continue to be an organized fighting force?

That it hasn't been done is clearly a political choice, not a technical limitation. Why it hasn't been done is the key question...

Posted by: Tbx | Sep 13 2022 11:59 utc | 82

Along with this let's have the US pay $100,000 to every victim of US aggression in all countries it has assaulted since WWII, starting with Libya, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Let's also demilitarize Europe and the UK. And let's abolish MI6 and the CIA and document all atrocities they have committed since inception. And publish names and compensation of all CIA trolls on websites like this one. Once all this is done and we know the effort is serious, real discussions can perhaps begin.

Posted by: Richard | Sep 13 2022 12:00 utc | 83

My thoughts on a peace proposal:Any peace proposal requires agreed upon international monitors and guarantees. This is a sketch and is off the top of my head.

I. Return to status quo ante February 24-implementation of Minsk II
II. No Reprisals against civilian population
III. Immediate lifting of ban on all Ukrainian Political Parties
IV. Restoration of ethnic rights to all ethnic minorities
V. Creation of a demilitarized zone in current areas of Russian occupation
VI. Lifting of all sanctions on Russia
VII. Russia pays for war reconstruction
VIII. Creation of an international truth commission

Posted by: Chip Poirot | Sep 13 2022 12:01 utc | 84

@dvision | Sep 13 2022 9:28 utc | 2

You nail it perfectly. I have nothing to add.

Posted by: Steve | Sep 13 2022 12:02 utc | 85

Capitulation of Russia? There are people who think they can do it with ridiculous and misleading proposals like this.

Posted by: Aldino | Sep 13 2022 12:04 utc | 86

Russia has made it clear that they know the West is no longer agreement capable and will not honor any deals made for a single second longer than expedient. Thus these proposals represent a fine narrative for the Daily Mail to print but as barflies here know Russia will only accept unconditional surrender of Ukraine which will be demilitarized and Federalized come what may.
The West´s next escalation maybe the implementation perhaps on September 24th 2022 of the World Economic Forum wargamed ´´cyber polygon´´scenario which will wipe out Western banking data and internet connections for a week or so blamed on Russia.

Posted by: Gatt | Sep 13 2022 12:05 utc | 87

Reply to: moaobserver | Sep 13 2022 10:54

From all the verbiage posted [709 words, 3419 chars (w/o spaces) 4105 chars (with spaces)], I’ll take just six (out of many, IMHO) most preposterous points:

#1 “This is all a result of something I noted many months ago …“
Self-citation, who t/f cares?

#2 “Putin should have said: "We are stepping in to …
Whoa! Recommend yourself for his advisor.

#3 “Now, people are talking about parallels to Milosevic.“
People are talking? Who? Where? On Twitter??

#4 “The proposal is somewhat naive and disingenuous, while well intentioned …“
No comment, really.

#5 “The leading Topic on Twitter (‼) at the moment is something about "Russian Troops fleeing in Panic …"
See #3.

#6 “The basic responsibility lies in the US …”
Bwaaaaha ha ha — haaaa! What a load of absurd BS.

Posted by: LongCovid | Sep 13 2022 12:09 utc | 88

Whichever Western European "source" sent this to you, b, can go to hell. This winter Western Europe's industry will be eviscerated and its populations freezing. Both its elites and its broader populations will begin to receive exactly what they deserve. Suggestions of false compromises, involving Russia paying hundreds of billions of reparations, will do nothing to save you. The Russian leadership would be toppled immediately and executed as traitors if they were even seen to consider such a proposal.

Posted by: Unnamed | Sep 13 2022 12:12 utc | 89

with this "proposal" it is no mystery why the author wants to remain anonymous.Bedides what makes the author think that Kiev is even remotely interested in peace?

Posted by: wt baker | Sep 13 2022 12:13 utc | 90

As @72 Micron says:

A lot of unacceptable clauses. Especially Section IV, which requires the Russian Federation to accept guilt and consequences for a war that was set up by the US, having overthrown a democratically elected government to introduce their own gob-smackingly corrupt puppets. The Biden family is thick in this.

And uncertain about Section V. If this is going to the International Criminal Court, Russia will get short shrift, it is a political thing that is dedicated to western 'values'. When was the last time a western leader or general, or anyone else, charged with war-crimes? Ever?

I will note the US does not recognize the Rome Accords (ICC). UK and Australia does. So why isn't David Cameron and John Howard charged in the ICC for promoting and starting an illegal war, according to the Nuremberg Principles or War (Iraq)? Because it's owned by western judges. Who themselves only get into their position by sycophancy.

Also, the US Government has never ratified UNCloS (United Nations Convention on the Law of the Seas). Which is only about traversing territorial waters for innocent trade purposes.

Yankee claims of 'Freedom of Navigation' are completely unjustified. It's simply am exercise in intimidation, backed up by lying propogandists.

Posted by: Ant. | Sep 13 2022 12:16 utc | 91


Who are you?

Posted by: moaobserver | Sep 13 2022 12:18 utc | 92

Another failure by Russia, not being able to even protect their own land from attacks!

Civilians killed in Ukrainian shelling of Russian region Most of the victims were Ukrainian citizens, the governor of the Russian Belgorod region bordering Ukraine said

How many times have the this happend now?

So much for the russian "trap" some brainwashed morons here believe in...

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 13 2022 12:19 utc | 93

Sorry, but in my pinion there is only one way to end this war: the unconditional surrender of the west. The Russian won´t trust us anymore, the won´t even negotiate with these gangsters wich betrayed them for centuries. And Russia is ahead, they will win. Why should the steal one Dollar when they can loot the whole bank?

Posted by: floapp | Sep 13 2022 12:19 utc | 94

Presenting the package as if it is about Ukraine and Russia suggests a deeply conflicted mindset. Franz Beckenbauer summed it up best labeling it "You do not negotiate with insane suicidal people."

Why waste time with Ukraine and Russia? Go to the Source instead.

The "Peace countries" (majority of nations) to enforce the following upon the USA:

1) Immediate exit of the USA from NATO (in principle and physically)
2) The De-Militarization of the USA over 3 years
3) Completely De-Nuclearize the USA over 2 years
4) Dismantle the 1000+ Military Bases and Secret CIA sites across the world in one year.
5) Dismantle the NSA, CIA operations, and 5 Eyes infrastructure globally in one year.
6) A Non-aggression / Self-Defense Only Amendment to the US Constitution in one year.
7) Removal of the United States as a permanent member of the UN Security Council immediately.

Cut off the "head of the snake" almost all the other problems become moot or very easily resolved by genuine good faith negotiations and agreement.

Of course this will never happen but you know it makes perfect sense and why it is necessary.

Posted by: SeanAU | Sep 13 2022 12:20 utc | 95

Col. McGregors Update on the last 72-96 hours in Ukraine:

1) Russians inflicted huge casualties on the Ukrainians that advanced to Izium.

2) Russians took very, very few casualties.

3) Ukrainians advanced through empty space. They did not force the Russians out. They simply moved in after the Russians withdrew.

4) Ukrainian forces are now out of the cities and forests and must fight in the open. This isthe fight the Russians prefer.

Russian Counterstroke will occur soon. The stage is set.

Meanwhile, the Ukrainians are attacking Krasny-Lyman, but the Russians were present in strength and the Ukrainians in a single day of combat had 300 KIA and over 1000 WIA.

There are 20000 AFU wounded from the failed Kherson offensive. The hospitals are overwhelmed. Locals are lined for blocks up to give blood.

Several AFU units are refusing to return to front lines.

Posted by: McGregors Update | Sep 13 2022 12:22 utc | 96

Hey everybody, go easy on b and his 'friend' who 'whispers' to him. The basic tenet of caring for someone who has ingested hallucinogens such as lycergic acid diethylamide (LSD) is supportive reassurance in a calm, stress-free environment. So be nice, and be cool.

Posted by: Sarcophilus | Sep 13 2022 12:24 utc | 97

Some stuff on the list are just plain dumb:

"Donbass demilitarized"? Yeah so Ukraine could march right in?
"Russia paying 100.000 euro for every civilian victim"? What on earth are this guy smoking?!
"Treason of individuals"? Nope, that is not how peace is built.

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 13 2022 12:24 utc | 98

Dayton 2.0
Especially article V. Society: 1-3 re self explanatory
Slowly we re coming closer to real reasons of the withdrawal of russian troops.
Like in Serbia the phase 3 of chessmasters SMO has started.
How to justify and sell the capitulation in the eyes of the russian public´
Simply release balloons of Peace Proposal For Ukraine.
Send ur trolls in offensive to support the proposals

Putin gave up like Milosevic only to save his skin to not beeing accused for war crime in front of war criminal tribunal
Guess secret talks are beeing held already since begining of August and they promised him that he must not justify himself before the war crime tribunal court in Hague.
What a naive chessmaster.
After signing Dayton 2.0 russian style his own former followers like Lavrov, Peskov and friends with the elites will prepare his his extradition to Hague
Putin seems to be more naive than Milosevic.

Posted by: Falco | Sep 13 2022 12:26 utc | 99

@96 SeanAU

Posted by: Ant. | Sep 13 2022 12:26 utc | 100

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