Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 07, 2022

'Western' Conflict Reporting Has Come Down To "Officials On Our Side Said ..."

Larry Johnson is rightfully appalled by a New York Times piece that quotes a lot from 'officials' but fails to check any of their obviously false claims:

I never cease to be amazed by the utter failure of journalists to assemble facts. I think it boils down to laziness. Why should you do any independent research or thinking that requires you to go to the front lines when you can gobble up and regurgitate pre-packaged talking points? You get paid the same and hell, you might even get a Pulitzer if you are the most enthusiastic purveyor of regime bullshit.

A recent piece in the New York Times, Russia’s Shortfalls Create an Opportunity for Ukraine, Western Officials Say, illustrates this phenomena. Here are the salient points from the article by Julian Barnes and Eric Schmitt: ...

The NYT piece is also available here.

I am not going to join Larry in dispelling the myths those 'journalists' try to spread. These people do not go out into the field to look at the facts. They do not consult frontline maps, casualty statistics, structure of forces or economic data. They have no experience in the art of war. They are mere stenographers, highly paid ones, who hang on the lips of 'officials' and write down whatever the 'sources' who invite them want them to tell.

Hard to believe that? Well, here is the sourcing mentioned in the NYT piece Larry Johnson is raging about:

..., U.S. and European officials said.
U.S. and European officials say ...
Russia has announced, and the West has predicted, ...
Russian commanders said ...
NATO and other officials say ...
These officials concede ...
... said senior U.S. military officials and American lawmakers
... these officials said.
... said Representative Elissa Slotkin
... a senior Defense Department official said recently.
European officials said, ...
... according to U.S. and allied intelligence officials
... Western intelligence officials said
American intelligence reports have said ...
... according to officials briefed on the assessments.
American officials said ...
Western intelligence officials say ...
... one Western intelligence official compared to ...
... the Western officials said.
By some intelligence estimates ...
... American officials said.
... according to Western intelligence officials.
... Ukrainian officials said, ...
Senior U.S. military officers said ...
Brig. Christopher King, the top British officer at a military cell in Stuttgart, Germany, ... said ...
And a senior Ukrainian military official said ...
... the official added ...
American and Western intelligence assessments ...
American and British officials said ...
Representative Michael Waltz, Republican of Florida, ... said ...
President Volodymyr Zelensky told the members of Congress ...
... Mr. Waltz said.

This is not even 'he said she said' journalism. This is pure stenography of claims one side of a conflict makes without any attempt to check the dubious veracity of those claims.

The New York Times is not alone in producing such bullshit. A recent Washington Post piece, Russia’s vow to annex occupied Ukraine sparks divisions, pleas for aid, is following the very same scheme:

Russia’s vow to annex pockets of occupied Ukraine has presented the United States and its partners with a predicament, as trepidation grows in Washington and Kyiv over whether the West is positioned to avert a pivotal shift in the war as soon as next month.

What 'pivotal shift' are they talking about? Russia has been winning this war from day one on. That is not going to change.

Four authors, Karoun Demirjian, Karen DeYoung, Loveday Morris and Michael Birnbaum, were needed to assemble the nonsense. Here are the sources they mention:

... critics of the Biden administration’s response say ...
Russia’s vow to ...
Russian leaders have signaled ...
Secretary of State Antony Blinken and senior White House officials have warned ...
... critics of the Biden administration’s response thus far ... contend ...
... the West say ...
... said Rep. Michael Waltz (R-Fla.), ...
The congressman noted that ...
... Waltz said, ...
The Russian embassy in Washington did not respond ...
The country’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, has said ...
The government in Kyiv has ...
Zelensky warning that ...
Biden administration officials insist ...
Western assessments of the conflict routinely cite ... while amplifying ...
In more than a dozen interviews and briefings, officials from the White House, the State Department, the Pentagon and the U.S. intelligence community defended ...
These officials downplayed ...
... said Pentagon spokesman Todd Breasseale.
... some senior U.S. officials have said ...
Zelensky’s advisers have been adamant that ...
... Yuriy Sak, an adviser to Ukrainian defense minister Oleksii Reznikov, said in an interview.
... the U.S. intelligence community changed ... officials say.
... according to officials familiar with the information sharing. Like others, they spoke on the condition of anonymity ...
... while Western allies say ...
... said Rep. Mike Quigley (D-Ill.), ...
The European Commission on Monday said ...
Some have pointed to ...
... according to Rafael Loss, a Berlin-based analyst at the European Council on Foreign Relations.
Critics note ...
... the European Union last week agreed ...
... said Sam Charap, a Russia specialist and political scientist at the RAND Corporation.
... he said.
Latvia’s foreign minister, Edgars Rinkevics, acknowledged ...
But he dismissed ...
... Rinkevics said in an interview.
Putin caused a stir by announcing that ...
Western officials say ...
Sak, the aide to Ukraine’s defense minister, praised ...
... he said, ...
... Sak said.

At the bottom of the piece the Post lets its readers know where its 'reporters' of that piece, about Ukraine(!), are stenographing from:

Birnbaum reported from Athens. Morris reported from Berlin. Shane Harris in Washington and Florian Neuhof in Berlin contributed to this report.

What is terrifying about such pieces is that 'officials' in Washington and Europe are actually reading such stuff and come to believe in it. They are consuming the myths they themselves produce and then act on them. They thereby ignore history, basic facts and the very real life of the people who become casualties of their wars.


Listen to Roger Waters as he confronts another dimwit 'journalist' (vid) with reality.

Posted by b on August 7, 2022 at 8:12 UTC | Permalink

next page »

About 20 years ago now a UK journalist called Nick Davies published Flat Earth News. By comparing the content of stories in broadsheet newspapers with their sources, he found that 60% was just reproduced without comment or context from the press release, which was either from government or corporate bodies.

Posted by: Pete | Aug 7 2022 8:23 utc | 1

A feedback loop in an echo chamber. Most jobs are like this now: being an academic in a modern university doesn't demand of one to take risks with original research but just to reheat the cabbage doing the rounds, repeat the jargon, repackage one's field in whatever ideologically correct format the Deans demand. Soviet burlesque where yesterday's enemies are today's heroes and amnesia rules. I'm increasingly inclined to find a quiet spot out of the way and not participate.

Posted by: Patroklos | Aug 7 2022 8:31 utc | 2

MSM is just double agent, same as Blinky and others, they contribute so much to the fall of west they will probably get bunch of Russian medals for their contribution once this is over. /s

Posted by: Abe | Aug 7 2022 8:47 utc | 3

who cares what bs emanates from the NYT

it is a trash rag peddling predictable propaganda

here is a sane journal

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 7 2022 8:50 utc | 4

Real journalists are a dying breed, John Helmer call this movement think tank media. The political economy of “journalism” is such in the west, that presstitutes are mere stenographers for oligarchs and the MIC. Helmer brilliantly explains the phenomena in this Hellevig lecture on truth telling in journalism.

Posted by: Boss Tweet | Aug 7 2022 8:51 utc | 5

These people do not go out into the field to look at the facts. They do not consult frontline maps, casualty statistics, structure of forces or economic data. They have no experience in the art of war. They are mere stenographers, highly paid ones, who hang on the lips of 'officials' and write down whatever the 'sources' who invite them want them to tell.

Progressive extremism, which dominates Western political thought nowadays, has a two-tiered understanding of the facts around us. The most important is the truth based on what is considered to be right or righteous (as in function e.g. of social justice or of environmental sustainability). The second is truth that is based on physical reality (what we used to think as truth). They are of course not the same.

What b is pointing out is this postmodern phenomenon as observed in journalism. Journalists as described above are nothing more than activists for some goal, as “truth” in their minds can only exist in function of preexisting goals or aims (whether political or induvidual) and not on itself to guide your goal making.

Confront any journalist or any modern educated person in the West with naked truth based on physical reality and you will see the fear and confusion in their eyes. They “cant handle the truth”.

Note that I am not against either social justice or environmental goals but when you start doing things this way, you lose my vote (or when you start sexualising children with “drag queen story hour”).

Posted by: alek_a | Aug 7 2022 8:51 utc | 6

Then there is this old source for the odd informant:
No matter how bad this is, it would p!ss all over the nyt for depth and occasional analysis.

And of course this from the heart of inspiration that arises from decades of oppression:

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 7 2022 8:57 utc | 7

"I never cease to be amazed by the utter failure of journalists to assemble facts. I think it boils down to laziness. Why should you do any independent research or thinking that requires ..."

Not laziness, imo. A whole generation (or two) raised on a misreading of postmodernism etc. For these types, and I had to deal with them in the lat 90's and early 00's, there are no "facts"... only narratives and discourse that serve some power/control function.

Aside from having to deal with the usual array of mental health factors often exhibited by these poorly educated types it is not too difficult to deconstruct this simplistic BS to the absurd -- in fact what the theory says should be done. In this case, the effective response is pointing to the obvious (liar's) paradox: "Is that a fact?"

Of course these self-surving presstitute 'eunuchs' (disconnected from their biological sex centers) live the core hypocracy. However, the one 'fact' they won't pass on is the $money paid into their little bank accounts. Courtesan values, basically.

Posted by: imo | Aug 7 2022 9:01 utc | 8

The problem is, as stated in the article, that these 'journalists' do not investigate, they are stenographers i.e. they are purveyors of propaganda. And they are cowardly hiding behind unnamed 'authorities' or 'officials'.

Truth does not come from authorities. Truth comes from evidence and reason.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 7 2022 9:12 utc | 9

There's one minus fact about all those 6 "journalists", they were born in the USA, which makes them utterly untrustworthy!

Larry C Johnson is a veteran of the CIA, so he knows that once, he created that nonsense himself.

Posted by: rp | Aug 7 2022 9:22 utc | 10

Boss Tweet #5

Thank you for the John Helmer link.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 7 2022 9:25 utc | 11

Correct, the scary thing is that the decision makers in the West overwhelmingly believe in their side's propaganda. The policy makers don't know better than their gullible masses. Which is a recipe for disaster.

Posted by: Steve | Aug 7 2022 9:26 utc | 12

As everyone here knows, the conventional US sphere view of events is built on a dramatically one sided idea of the history and the facts, based on very well funded propaganda, and most mainstream "journalists" fully buy into this Official Truth and help to reinforce it, even if they are not directly paid to do so.

The fact is that there are huge personal costs and risks to stepping outside that comforting embrace of authority and respectability. Those who do, such as Eva Bartlett, Patrick Lancaster and many others, face harassment and death threats in return for trying to inform the other side of the issue.

But for British readers especially, one case of particular urgency is that of Graham Phillips, and we should all be concerned about the new precedent set by the UK regime's application of sanctions to its own citizen, basically rendering him effectively impoverished and exiled based on no due process, without even the pretence that he has committed any crime, and explicitly (shamelessly!) on the basis that his blogging simply goes against UK regime foreign policy objectives.

I don't know what the limits here are with regard to posting links etc, but I will try to post his mailing group email with reference links below.
This is an important issue and a huge escalation of the control of information, at least with regard to UK citizens. We should all be taking every opportunity we can get to publicise this issue.

Posted by: Mark Marksson | Aug 7 2022 9:30 utc | 13

Graham Phillips mailing list email from a few days ago:
"Clearly I would love to be writing to you and speaking about my recent, and i feel important, reportage from Severodonetsk, Donbass, and not only. However, due to the actions of the UK government, in the first place i write asking for your support. Not financial support, there's no point in that for now - please note that i have now suspended ALL my crowdfunding on western platforms - Patreon, and Paypal. Actually, they have both frozen my accounts for as long as I'm sanctioned by the UK government, my bank account is also seized by the UK government with no means of accessing funds there.

If you have a direct debit set up to support me on Patreon, or anywhere, please CANCEL it now.

I will get by in Donbass with what you've been kind enough to donate in the past. For now, i need your support in a different way. The UK government have sanctioned me for my work from here in Donbass. They've made me the first. the only, British person in history to be sanctioned by his own country. You may well have heard 'sanctions' so many times the word appears to mean little. And indeed, if the UK government sanctions a random Russian oblast governor, as they like to do, it likely means little to nothing to them - they didn't plan to come to the UK anyway, had nothing to lose in the UK.

When the UK sanctions their own citizen, myself, sanctions are not so trivial. I don't have access to any of my UK bank accounts or as mentioned, Paypal etc. That means I can't return home to the UK, because i can't buy a plane ticket - sanctions on me also make it illegal for any British citizen to either give, or receive money from me. So, i ask, say a non-British friend to help me buy a plane ticket, and get home to the UK. And what next? I may have enough left on my Oyster card to get me home on the Tube, but after that how do I even find food money? How do i pay any of my bills? How do i defend myself in court for actions on unpaid bills, when i don't even have bus money to get to the court, let alone for a lawyer?

Effectively, it's the UK government forcing me into exile without having the courage to try to strip me of my passport, knowing there are no legal grounds for that. Making me a criminal without any criminal accusations against me. Giving me a criminal punishment with no recourse to any court of law. Actually it's the UK government simply deciding to do away with our legal system, established by Magna Carta, in 1215, entirely. And for what - because, as they say, I'm a 'videoblogger who produces video material which threatens the sovereignty of Ukraine' - and with all their millions, and media might, and BBC etc, if that's the case, they can't just make better videos than me, or videos 'exposing' any untruths in my own?

The UK government sanctioning me legitimises me as an 'enemy of the state' of the UK, and in the last week I've received countless death threats of what will happen to me if I return to the UK. It is, simply put, an attempt by the UK government to destroy me in every way they can - by attack on reputation, destitution, attempt to put me in maximum danger, with over 100,000 Ukrainians now in the UK.

And what have i done to deserve this? From 2014, with a handheld camera, filmed and shown you the truth from Donbass. From the start of 2015, I've been completely independent as a journalist, an independent British journalist, my work funded by people like yourself. Many times I've reached out to you in the past, you've supported me, supported my work, via Patreon, Paypal, etc. That is what has covered my costs, made all my work possible, all these years! As i say, there's no point in that now. So, I'm asking for your support this way.

Posted by: Mark Marksson | Aug 7 2022 9:32 utc | 14

I stopped at
'Russia has announced, and the West has predicted, ..."

Let's be honest.
Can anyone name one, just one thing any western intelligence sources got right?
You could argue about the Russians getting involved in the hostilities.
But that would be ignoring the Ukrainian bombardments of Eastern Ukraine in the weeks before.

They simply put haven't a clue!
Just simplistic hubristic assumptions.
The running out of artillery munitions stockpiled being the most obvious.
The collapse of the Ruble being the most incorrect.
A lot of stupid arrogance exposed.
Should have sat down and talked but bit late for so many young men now!

Posted by: Jpc | Aug 7 2022 9:32 utc | 15

Please, contact a politician, be it British, or from another country, or publication, to complain about this. Please, support me in public, via Twitter, Telegram, Facebook etc. I am one person, against the machinations, force, totalitarianism, of the British state. Only one British journalist from a major publication has stood up for me, Peter Hitchens, and he has done so not as a fan of my work, or Russia, but someone standing up for a point of principle, the law -

Of course, I believe that the negative view Peter Hitchens expresses of myself, and my work, would change if he were more familiar with who i am, what i do. And that is simple, a working, independent British journalist, most known for my work in Donbass, although i've also reported from around the world, in particular i love doing documentaries. I also love Donbass with all my heart, the people here, and for the most part, my work here is simply turning that handheld camera around, filming the people of Donbass, letting them speak.

What the people of Donbass have to say turns out to be something the UK government are ready to do everything to make sure you don't see, or hear. They are ready to do away with the entire British legal system in their attempt to destroy me, for bringing you the truth from Donbass.

But, they will not win. The truth must, and will win. My work here continues, of course it continues alongside the processes of protesting the illegal act of the British government, and dealing with all the other fallout. But, it continues, and you can find it here - and of course not only -

Thank you again, and on we go, best wishes from Lugansk, we will win!


Posted by: Mark Marksson | Aug 7 2022 9:33 utc | 16

Darn just posted on the previous story before refreshing and seeing this great piece.

It being Sunday I’ll just leave my closing words from my comment here :

The SCO has agreed to abide by their Laws and these will protect all SCO members. The Chinese are not about to start turning into Exceptionalists playing by only their ever changing Rules.
Nancy boys provocations designed to do that failed and will always fail , why? Because the rest of the world doesn’t act in the same way as the Collective Waste has always done. That really screws up our western mind set of winner takes all and the poor deserve to be poor.

Get a grip folks. Just wake the fuck up.

Imagine some great ancient alien space race that is a billion years old has arrived and THEY know a lot more than we ever imagined and no they aren’t here to eat us - though they may try the taste (with some lab generated human meat ….fff fff fff)

Happy Sunday everyone everywhere & let’s help Stop the Wars forever.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Aug 7 2022 9:36 utc | 17

As Posted by:

imo | Aug 7 2022 9:01 utc and Posted by: alek_a | Aug 7 2022 8:51 utc | 6

journalism quality and independence has disappeared apart from a few very honourable exceptions.
All people who rely on MSM get is breathlessly regurgitated whatever the latest current thing happens to be.

Posted by: Jpc | Aug 7 2022 9:45 utc | 18

...[journalists]...are mere stenographers...who hang on the lips of 'officials' and write down whatever the 'sources' who invite them want them to tell...

That's way too innocent a picture. A more adequate description of the "Lying press" ("Lügenpresse", a word they hate to hear here in Germany) is this: Media workers are massively pressured under penalty of their economic downfall. In 2016, the Association of the Press of Madrid (Spain) revealed, that out of 1833 interviewed Spanish journalists, 74.8% confirmed that they... "yield to pressure due to fear to be relegated or fired, and 57.2% of media professionals acknowledged that they self-censor...".

Posted by: OttoE | Aug 7 2022 9:54 utc | 19

@Mark Marksson | Aug 7 2022 9:33 utc | 16

Many thanks for reproducing the email from Graham Phillips. It is hard to describe what is done to him in polite words, but it is a perfect illustration that the UK (and I would include the west in general) has become a lawless dystopia.

‘In England such concepts as justice, liberty and objective truth are still believed in. They may be illusions, but they are very powerful illusions.’ - George Orwell

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 7 2022 10:08 utc | 20

What b describes is a key element in the conduct of "hybrid warfare." The US has openly declared the need for "full spectrum dominance." This involves state control of all resources including information resources available to the public.

The war in Vietnam would likely still be occurring today were it not for Walter Cronkite and his February 27, 1968 editorial report which began: "We have been too often disappointed by the optimism of the American leaders, both in Vietnam and Washington, to have faith any longer in the silver linings they find in the darkest clouds." The same phrase may be applied today to events in Ukraine and Taiwan.

The US military and Intelligence complex blamed the American loss in Vietnam on the media and the fact the nascent television media allowed every citizen to view daily reportage from the zero line. As b points out, "journalists" report from everywhere except areas directly in the conflict zone. This displaces "ground truth" with "ideological reality."

It has been repeatedly stated in MoA comments that the reason for the poor quality of today's politicians is due to the fact any political career is dead in the water unless you spout the party line. On the other hand, if you are an enthusiastic mouthpiece for the state, your rise is assured. Lizz Truss of "Russia has to remove its troops from Rostov" is a case in point.

There is evidence this "ideological grooming" applies not only to politicians but also to media (see

Contemplate the fact a journalist who provided detailed evidence of US war crime has been persecuted by the US since 2010. The information published by Assange dealt with more than trigger happy gunship crews:

During the 2016 U.S. election campaign, WikiLeaks published confidential Democratic Party emails, showing that the party's national committee favoured Hillary Clinton over her rival Bernie Sanders in the primaries. In March 2017, WikiLeaks published a series of documents which detailed the CIA's electronic surveillance and cyber warfare capabilities, after which senior CIA officials discussed potentially kidnapping or assassinating Assange.


The other credible source of reporting on state manipulation of the public is Edward Snowden whose disclosures "revealed numerous global surveillance programs, many run by the NSA and the Five Eyes Intelligence Alliance with the cooperation of telecommunication companies and European governments"

Ask yourself "how is it possible for a one man operation to deliver insight and perspective on global events?" and "Why are corporate news sources incapable of anything close to equivalent?" MoA commentators have repeatedly discussed the great difficulty they experience in delivering "ground truth" to friends and associates whose primary information source is the MSM. Given the ongoing presentation of unvarying "ideological reality" what is your estimate of the elapsed time before the globe becomes a flaming popsicle?

Posted by: Sushi | Aug 7 2022 10:09 utc | 21

A newspaper is expected, above all, to report what is happening again, which a reader has not observed directly, but which can condition his life in the nearest or distant times (the word derives from the French 'jour = day' ). There are variables to consider:
1) the actuality of the facts
2) the context
3) adherence to interpretive schemes (ideology, rapporteur's orientation towards the parties in conflict)

In any communication process, the ability of the 'sender (the newspaper)' to manipulate the 'receiver (the reader)' by formatting the 'message (the news)' is present.

Journalists - mainly in investigative journalism - should highlight the most relevant aspects - in terms of the impact on the lives of most people - of the reality they describe. Certainly in their academic curricula these subjects are addressed. The 'West' boasts freedom of the press as one of its values. However, for several years, investigative journalists in the 'West' have been expelled from the main private and public media. It's not the fault of journalists, it's an imposition by the editorial boards of newspapers and radio and television channels. Journalism without journalists is just a misappropriation of a beautiful idea.

The publication of facts that contradict the editorial expectations are frozen for days or weeks, losing current value.
The context is created by a massive barrage of opinionators who cultivate the basic underpinnings of roleplaying characters or national authorities in conflict. Thus, for example, when you say 'The Zaporigia nuclear power plant was hit by a missile', without identifying the source, this is inferred from the previously created context. It's about encouraging convenient Pavlovian connections, a crude manipulation technique.

Posted by: António Ferrão | Aug 7 2022 10:13 utc | 22

Scott Ritter has a dim view of the US msm.
Recorded mid June, published 3 days ago.

20 minute utoob from Ron Paul Institute.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 7 2022 10:35 utc | 23

It may be elementary laziness on one level, but it is EFFICIENT indoctrination.

Continued repetition is the basis of the levelling down of the intellect, which has been set up for the brain dead to ingurgitate. By repeating the same "confirmation" of a previously implanted belief, it reinforces whatever codswallop has been said by others.
The original "source" can be easily hidden.

ie. it is a feature of today's journalism, not a bug.

It goes hand in hand with eliminating ALL other thoughts. You cannot be "woke" and "awake" at the same time. Either you "know" without an iota of doubt - "as everyone knows", or doubts at first seep in and then becomes confirmed scepticism.

Posted by: Stonebird | Aug 7 2022 10:40 utc | 24

With regards to the British press, Media Lens has been posting for years, the extent of the press’s blindness and putting forward the ruling class’ view on world events. I advocate reading their posts and buying their publications. Here is a link to one of their articles.

Posted by: Vragtes | Aug 7 2022 10:41 utc | 25

Posted by: Sushi | Aug 7 2022 10:09 utc | 21

indoctrination, please. "Grooming" is "self-care."

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 7 2022 10:45 utc | 26

The Rodger Waters interview with the either, bought off or just super programmed interviewer, reminded me about when Georgia shelled South Ossetia and the Russian peace keepers in 08.I was working in Crimea at the time and I recieved some emails from my friends in the States who were watching the TV news about it. They told me that I should quickly get out of Crimea, because the Russians are going to invade Crimea - next. I got a pretty good laugh out of their emails, thanked them for their concern, but told them that the Russians are already here . And that they have been here since 1776 and I'll be OK. lol

Today, if you look up the 2008 Russo/Georgian conflict , you hear/read the same BS from the West, that Rodger was up against in his interview. This is why we must call out every known party that has hijacked our history, media, society, country etc. etc. etc. - No matter what.

Posted by: GMC | Aug 7 2022 10:46 utc | 27

@Sushi #21

I think Sushi is using this definition metaphorically:

Grooming is when someone builds a relationship, trust and emotional connection with a child or young person so they can manipulate, exploit and abuse them.

Posted by: Billb | Aug 7 2022 10:52 utc | 28

Why wonder?
You're reading a blog that supported THE JAB.
As if it had ever been possible to develop one in less than 10 months.
SARS-Cov2 virus discovery Feb 2020, mandatory JAB Dec 2020. PURE SCIFI and yet you believed because, as Fox Mulder did, you wanted to. The truth was out there though.

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Aug 7 2022 11:00 utc | 29

More hits near Zaporizhzhia NNP, Zelensky is trying to turn it around by criticising Amnesty for not speaking out about Russian targeting of the plant. No prizes for spotting the flaw in his argument ... still, nice to see that he (i.e. his handlers) recognise the danger of western NGO’s confirming UA war crimes.

The hits are so numerous and spread out over time that they must be deliberate and the threat to the plant must be the intended point of them.

All things being equal, I exclude RF as the perpetrator. UA gone rogue doesn’t work either because the hits are ongoing so the US (CIA/MI6j have had plenty of time to put a stop it.

Therefore, on balance of probability, these hits on / near the NNP are happening with at least tacit US approval.

Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 7 2022 11:00 utc | 30

May be the C0vid Jab will end up being the first dose of anti-moronic vax.
One can always hope.

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Aug 7 2022 11:04 utc | 31

This is not different from Chinese, Russia, or Singaporean state controlled media. Which of course never even claimed anything about such nonsense as journalism.

Posted by: Tigger | Aug 7 2022 11:19 utc | 32

I offer an alternative reason instead of "laziness" on why these "journalists" do what they do. And it applies to almost all sectors of American society.

Let's look at the US Secret Service. This is supposed to be the creme de la creme of American professionals. Yet in recent years, agents of this august organization have been caught with hookers and drugs. Why is that?

I believe that since the assasination of JFK, which these agents did play a part in by standing down that day, these super elites understand one thing and one thing only which is the most important thing: Be on the winning side at all costs. Everything else is secondary and they can be worked out later.

Hence, George W. Bush's admonishment: "Either you are with us or you are against us."

Back to these stenographer journalists. They get paid to say what they are told to say, otherwise they could lose their jobs. God forbid! There goes their mortgage and car payments!

In the end, it's all about that damn mortgage payment!

Posted by: Sam Smith | Aug 7 2022 11:28 utc | 33

Posted by: Billb | Aug 7 2022 10:52 utc | 27
Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 7 2022 10:45 utc | 25

Remove the age restriction and Billb's definition applies:

Grooming is when someone builds a relationship, trust and emotional connection so they can manipulate, exploit and abuse them.

According to Merriam-Webster:
Indoctrination is a means of forcing, brainwashing, or imposing desired ideologies without open discussion

Grooming is a more subtle bond, harder to detect and ultimately of more corrosive effect. Indoctrination is more easily sensed and becomes repellent for that reason. The trust relationship and emotional bonding are what makes grooming effective. Approach a journalist with the line "I read your article and found it excellent and a highly preceptive reading of the issues. Your work does not obtain the readership it deserves. I would like to assist in your career advancement," plays to the emotional, intellectual, and financial needs of the individual.

This is far more pernicious than "You cannot report these facts. You must advance US state interests and suppress facts which cast the US in a negative light."

I am sure the three letter agencies operate very sophisticated and well researched training programs which center on the language to be used in making an approach. The approach becomes even more effective when the individual making the approach is a colleague who is already enrolled as an agent of influence.

Posted by: Sushi | Aug 7 2022 11:30 utc | 34

anon2020 | Aug 7 2022 11:00 utc | 29
Therefore, on balance of probability, these hits on / near the NNP are happening with at least tacit US approval.

They're approved by Vicky herself.
"Fragments of a rocket fired by the Ukrainian military at the Zaporozhye NPP fell no more than 400 meters from the power unit"

So keep it very slow and never ever target the nazi leaders! BTW Israel claims they've killed all leaders from Gaza. So nato, nazis and Israel target the leaders first. Maybe kisser Martyanov can explain the backwards strategy of protecting the enemy leaders.

Posted by: rk | Aug 7 2022 11:34 utc | 35

More Western reporting: Zelensky, in a telephone conversation with the head of the European Council Charles Michelle, calls for a more decisive international response to the Russian "nuclear terror" after the new shelling of the Zaporozhye NPP — Reuters

Posted by: rk | Aug 7 2022 11:54 utc | 36

Posted by: Pete | Aug 7 2022 8:23 utc | 1

Decades ago - I had the misfortune to work in a giant open-plan office - it was bizarre that Finance and PR were within earshot and shared the same fax !

One day reading the fax just despatched by PR I had the privilege of reading word-for-word what appeared in the newspaper next morning

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Aug 7 2022 11:58 utc | 37

…..What is terrifying about such pieces is that 'officials' in Washington and Europe are actually reading such stuff and come to believe in it. They are consuming the myths they themselves produced and then act on the…….

Groupthink by design

Posted by: Exile | Aug 7 2022 11:59 utc | 38

I offer an alternative reason instead of "laziness" on why these "journalists" do what they do. And it applies to almost all sectors of American society.

In the days of hot-metal presses Print Unions were taking the Supernormal Rent. The destruction of hot-metal to electronic typesetting freed up money to buy journalists. From being relatively low-paid they became "Star Reporters" and Cult of Personality driven like Hollywood without the Studio System

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Aug 7 2022 12:00 utc | 39

Published 4 weeks ago, but on topic

This is a war of propaganda

John Pilger on Ukraine and Assange, Jul 9, 2022

South China Morning Post

Posted by: António Ferrão | Aug 7 2022 12:01 utc | 40

The list of sources grows ever larger...

Posted by: leaf | Aug 7 2022 12:18 utc | 41

From being relatively low-paid they became "Star Reporters" and Cult of Personality driven like Hollywood without the Studio System

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Aug 7 2022 12:00 utc | 38

The change from reporting.
A workings class job.
To "journalism" a middle class art's degree position.
An awful lot of the journalism clique have vastly inflated notions of their ability and value to society.
Bar regurgitation of government/ multi national press releases.
And virtue signalling whatever current thing wokism their editor puts in front of them.

Posted by: Jpc | Aug 7 2022 12:22 utc | 42

we have all seen what the msm (but almost all médias) can do, the covid age beeing for some (me also) more than a révélation,it was a and still is la société du spectacle,we are now at a pinacle of it, like someone said: "Beware of false Indians, forked tongues are legion
Que se vayan todos!
In an atmosphere of hysteria and collective paranoia, the narratives of the authorities or/and authorized do not need to make sense or resist any kind of scrutiny. Their primary purpose is not to deceive, but rather to delineate an acceptable ideological territory of expression and emotion to which "normal" people must conform. Beyond the boundaries lies the outer darkness of "abnormality" and "extremism," which no "normal" person wants. To avoid being thrown into this outer darkness, people will conform to the most absurd and paranoid nonsense you can imagine.
The ruling classes know this, and that's why they don't care if you refute their stories on Twitter or on a "dishonorable" website that they've made virtually invisible anyway. They don't discuss the facts or the truth ... they mark the boundaries of this "normal" territory and attract scared people. "

Translated with (free version)

Posted by: Svorane | Aug 7 2022 12:23 utc | 43

QUOTE: "Note that I am not against either social justice or environmental goals but when you start doing things this way, you lose my vote (or when you start sexualising children with “drag queen story hour”)." UNQUOTE

For the love of...

People of my generation (I'm 53) grew up with drag up the wazoo on UK TV in the 70s and 80s: Dame Edna Everidge, Kenny Everett ("it's all in the best possible taste") and a plethora of Drag. Even saw a drag act at Butlins. At no point did any of my chums say "You know what I think I'm a girl now. Let's have sex".

Please spare us the reactionary anglo-saxon moral panic du jour about drag. There's a war on, and oh yeah, half the planet is on fire.

Posted by: dermotmoconnor | Aug 7 2022 12:24 utc | 44

Speaking of purveyor of regime bs, where is the outrage about the attacks on Gaza — the open air prison — ‘mowing the lawn operation?’
Just the top terrorist was killed, and it is said that they have rockets, oh no.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Aug 7 2022 12:24 utc | 45

I'm grateful to the commenters on this site who give links to the work of people like Patrick Lancaster, Graham Phillips, Military Summary and, as above, the Roger Waters interview. Ostro has posted some interesting links showing life in the liberated areas of the Donbass. There is an interview with John Pilger currently linked on 21st Century Wire, with his pessimistic assessment of current Western journalism as evidenced by its coverage of the Ukraine conflict. (I hope I'm allowed to mention that here on MOA.)

What is happening to Graham Phillips is disgraceful but, after the Assange saga, no longer surprising. Yet many people apparently continue to believe that in the Ukraine "we" are defending "Western values" (whatever they are) and freedom and democracy - so precious they can only be protected through censorship and persecution. Here in France I have not heard, even once, on any MSM TV or radio station or in the written press, one single favourable (or even truthful) account of Russia's arguments for triggering the SMO. All we get is Zelensky worship ("a global hero"), Putin vilification and a never-ending litany of "Russian atrocities" sourced from Ukrainian propaganda and presented as Gospel truth. This seems to be the case throughout the whole of the NATO and 5-eyes area. Much of it has been debunked by b here on MOA, as in today's post, but there is too much lying for him to cover it all.

The current fad among MSM "analysts" here is to distinguish between "authoritarian" and "democratic" countries - it's both glib and meaningless, and is becoming even more so with every passing day, but sounds good and doesn't require any tiresome facts or research.

Posted by: B. Wildered | Aug 7 2022 12:27 utc | 46

In the last paragraph of my post where I refer to MSM analysts, "here" means "here in France".

Posted by: B. Wildered | Aug 7 2022 12:30 utc | 47

B. Wildered | Aug 7 2022 12:27 utc | 44
sourced from Ukrainian propaganda and presented as Gospel truth.

They are all sourced from UK/US actually. Ukrainians discover what they've said when they read the Western news like everybody else. Some things are never reported like the attacks on civilian targets, some are pure fakes, others are turned around, like the npp or the prison strikes, Russians attack themselves in Donetsk.
What comes from inside Ukr are the trolls and the youtube/twitter warriors with videos from Arma 3 game.

Posted by: rk | Aug 7 2022 12:44 utc | 48

Guys, there is a big need to debunk Sonnenfeld currently - in his claims that Russia's economy is doomed. His "work" pops up all over the place and he still has an air of credibility (Yale)

Past interviews suggest he is a seething Russophobe (and pro gun grabber in the US)

Posted by: Eighthman | Aug 7 2022 12:49 utc | 49

@Svorane | Aug 7 2022 12:23 utc | 43

To avoid being thrown into this outer darkness, people will conform to the most absurd and paranoid nonsense you can imagine.

MASS PSYCHOSIS - How an Entire Population Becomes MENTALLY ILL

This is where we are.

Truth comes from evidence and reason.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 7 2022 13:02 utc | 50

This piece by Luke Harding, famous for the 'Manafort visits Assange in the Ecuadorian embassy' fiction, is just in the same vein. At least he is reporting from Kiev.
"Horrific video and photos have emerged that appear to show the head of a Ukrainian prisoner of war stuck on a pole outside a house in the eastern Ukrainian city of Popasna, which was captured by Russian forces in May and is close to the current frontline in the Donbas."
Horrific video...appears to show?
"The Guardian has not confirmed the authenticity of the photo."
"The photo is the latest apparent atrocity committed by Moscow’s soldiers"
"Last week footage emerged of a Chechen fighter allegedly castrating a bound Ukrainian prisoner, who was then shot dead."
"The alleged location was an abandoned sanatorium in Pryvillia, near the city of Lysychansk."


Posted by: Orage | Aug 7 2022 13:04 utc | 51

Posted by: Svorane | Aug 7 2022 12:23 utc | 43
...they mark the boundaries of this "normal" territory and attract scared people. "

i also forget to say, that is why they need the "pournalists" for

Posted by: Svorane | Aug 7 2022 13:06 utc | 52

you know norwegian , i think this is where we always have been, i mean since some people actualy own each other and the land, it will stay like that...a sorry state of mind cope with is is indeed a very good time, to see the brain washing power of group thinking, and i know only few people who look around the walls.... and for all:
beware of hope it does the same than fear in a stress situation,do not mistake the two

Posted by: Svorane | Aug 7 2022 13:22 utc | 53

Posted by: rk | Aug 7 2022 12:44 utc | 49

BULLETIN: Yulia Paevskaya (stage name "Tyra" AP The Thumb Drive operator) understudy, Anna Vorosheva, the Azov Entrepreur, SPEAKS OUT after spending 100 days in the Olenivka detention centre
Guardian | ‘Absolute evil’: inside the Russian prison camp where dozens of Ukrainians burned to death

Anna Vorosheva – a 45-year-old Ukrainian entrepreneur – gave a harrowing account to the Observer of her time inside the jail. She spent 100 days in Olenivka after being detained in mid-March [17 March] at a checkpoint run by the pro-Russian Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) in eastern Ukraine [Mariupol].

She had been trying to deliver humanitarian supplies to Mariupol, her home city, which the Russian army had besieged. The separatists arrested her and drove her in a packed police van to the prison, where she was held until early July [17 Mar + 100 = June 25, 2022] on charges of “terrorism”.

millennial-unit moments before "The fighters [Ukrainian POWs] were blown up on 29 July in a mysterious and devastating explosion."
Now recovering in France, Vorosheva said she had no doubt Russia “cynically and deliberately” murdered Ukrainian prisoners of war. "We are talking about absolute evil," she said. ...
• "'We heard their cries,' she said"...
• "Captives arrived and departed every day at the camp, 20km south-west of occupied Donetsk, Vorosheva told the Observer. Around 2,500 people were held there...she estimated."
• "The atmosphere changed when around 2,000 Azov fighters were bussed in on the morning of 17 May, she said" ...
• "'We were frequently called Nazis and terrorists. One of the women in my cell was an Azovstal medic. She was pregnant. I asked if I could give her my food ration. I was told, ‘No, she’s a killer’" ...
• "the camp’s staff were brainwashed by Russian propaganda and considered Ukrainians to be Nazis. Some were local villagers....The philosophy is: ‘Everything is horrible for us, so everything should be horrible for you’. It’s all very COMMUNIST" ...
• "Since the blast, the Russians have refused to give international representatives any access to the site."

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 7 2022 13:22 utc | 54

Yes, looks like it's the writers from UK. The Novichok team

Posted by: rk | Aug 7 2022 13:27 utc | 55

Greg Galloway | Aug 7 2022 11:00 utc | 29
Trolling for...? The Koch Brothers?

Posted by: bevin | Aug 7 2022 13:33 utc | 56

Is an expense account for the costs associated with real journalism provided to "journalist" repeaters in the budget and provided by entities such as the Jew York Crimes and WhiteWashington Post??? Does this question even need to be asked???

Posted by: William Haught | Aug 7 2022 13:50 utc | 57

This all boils down to propaganda, not a shred better then the Jones-bullshit, but more dangerous. Particularly outrageous right now are claims that Russia is shelling the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant - which is under Russian control. This is reminiscent of the Paraguayan government, which, when the torture of prisoners came to light, claimed that they had tortured themselves...

Even when Zaporizhzhya would be unter ukranian control, the Russians wouldn't attack it, out of obvious reasons. Western media covers most dangerous war crimes of its proxy shamelessly.

Posted by: Pnyx | Aug 7 2022 14:05 utc | 58

One good thing, people are abandoning the MSM and searching for real information. Unfortunately when you use a google type site the propaganda is 20 pages deep. Many times it is the same articles reprinted wording linked to 50 or 60 times.

Things are very stale by design. I know so many people who see 20 pages of the same article reprinted 100 times as affirmation of the truth. Their system is nearly foolproof. Pardon the pun.

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 7 2022 14:47 utc | 59

Posted by: rk | Aug 7 2022 11:34 utc | 34
Posted by: rk | Aug 7 2022 11:54 utc | 35

Agreed, it looks very much like a deliberate threat, extortion ... this stuff at Zaporizhia is a new level of crazy, is this how Team Biden hopes to stop SMO before RF buries their UA proxy forces?

From: Zaporizhia NPP
To: Josep Borrell Fontelles
Cc: Ursula von der Leyen

Hey, guys, the giant ***t sandwich you ordered is almost ready (collection in person only).

All the best,

Staff and supervisors.

Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 7 2022 14:50 utc | 60

Holding a dubious attitude toward journalists was inculcated in me at a young age by my mother….
She used recount a this: that at a dinner or event two men were discussing/ disagreeing about some issue. One of the men was the owner/editor/journalist of the weekly town paper.
The editor went and wrote an article arguing his point of view arising from the discussion he’d engaged in at the dinner.
A day after publication, the “other party” to the debate wandered into the newspaper office and conceded….. what he’d just read “in the paper” convinced him the other guy (the editor) must be correct [because it was “in the paper”].

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 7 2022 14:58 utc | 61

@Melaleuca | Aug 7 2022 14:58 utc | 62

A day after publication, the “other party” to the debate wandered into the newspaper office and conceded….. what he’d just read “in the paper” convinced him the other guy (the editor) must be correct [because it was “in the paper”].
So he thought truth comes from authority....

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 7 2022 15:15 utc | 62

Despite the idiot commonplace that government can't do anything, the truth is that to really get things done usually takes the government. That includes getting information. So, yes, most news sources are going to repeat the government sources because that's often the best information. As to implicit claim that "we" (which presumably means the suitably right-wing reader) are too clever to believe the government, just compare the response to reporting on police murders and popular resistance. Even in those cases, when the government, in this case the police, have a clear motive for lying, consistently, the fury is directed at...the media for fostering lies. Most everyone else here would have applauded Trump successfully bringing the army into the streets (and fixing the elections by repressing the vote along the way) and condemns Milley as a traitor for not politicizing the army.

dermotmoconnor@44 "Please spare us the reactionary anglo-saxon moral panic du jour about drag. There's a war on, and oh yeah, half the planet is on fire."
Well said. If I were to quibble---and apparently I can't help myself?---it would be to say this is not a legitimate fear but an excuse, that alek_a is actually against social justice etc. Anybody who wants to defend conventional morality side by side with millionaires and bosses and generals is crossing class lines as far as I'm concerned, on the ruling class' side, not ours. Drag? The world didn't fall to pieces when women stopped wearing dresses and put on pants, did it?

A note on the word "grooming": This is an import from the worst kind of identity politics. In this version, beneficial acts are assumed to be evil because they are assumed to be manipulative. There is also the assumption, in sexual matters, that children are somehow taught heterosexuality the way they're taught the ABCs, complete with lesson plans and grades apparently. If it weren't for the bad faith of it all, you'd conclude all these people were morons.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 7 2022 15:27 utc | 63

@anon2020 | Aug 7 2022 14:50 utc | 61

Could be. Or at least they want RF to give Zap. back to Ukr so they can send more free electricity to Ursula.

Posted by: rk | Aug 7 2022 15:31 utc | 64

it was also very well explain in the Sydney Lumet Network movie from 1976, every one should see it once

Posted by: Svorane | Aug 7 2022 15:40 utc | 65

@ 1

By comparing the content of stories in broadsheet newspapers with their sources, he found that 60% was just reproduced without comment or context from the press release, which was either from government or corporate bodies.

And I expect this will only get worse as mainstream outlets increasingly drop human journalists for AI. You can feed a press release through an NLP suite and output an article up to any outlet's editorial standards. Soon human intermediaries between "official sources" and the media will be a pure artifice.

Posted by: fnord | Aug 7 2022 15:51 utc | 66

Could be. Or at least they want RF to give Zap. back to Ukr so they can send more free electricity to Ursula.

Posted by: rk | Aug 7 2022 15:31 utc | 65

Yes, that’s an interesting possibility. The hits look very deliberate so there must be some kind of demand being made (spoken or implied). Perhaps RF should announce that the site is being shut down for safety reasons, with only minimal generation for local population needs?

Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 7 2022 15:55 utc | 67

@ Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 7 2022 15:27 utc | 64

Largely agree. Seeing bar flies here regurgitate bullshit they heard from the right-wing media, especially about homosexuals, transgender men and women, and other non-conformists that right-wingers want to use state force to punish, has been aggravating as a long time reader who shows up here for critical takes on the American Empire and not for moral panicking.

Drag in particular is an Anglo-Saxon past time! I can pull up my grandma's old school yearbooks and find a drag wedding (they called it a "stag" wedding) that her segregated high school put on for a pep rally! The fear over drag in the US context has everything to do with the decline of christian cultural hegemony, but christians acting out the way they are only assures that this hegemony will disappear faster - they could decline gracefully, but like the Empire, they're choosing a violent death rattle.

Posted by: fnord | Aug 7 2022 16:01 utc | 68

kudos to larry johnson... but this is standard procedure... nothing out of the ordinary here... all the wired services and national broadcasters who cover faraway wars do this! what is shocking to me is how easily people swallow it all without question...

worth repeating -

Posted by: james | Aug 7 2022 16:14 utc | 69

Absolutely correct. The degradation of the journalism in the West is a thing of both amazement and horror. They have always tended to be ignorant of economic and military matters, but at least stuck to the precept that you had to give both sides their say.

With the SMO, that's out the door. Two examples:
AP here, parroting the ludicrous claim that Russia is shelling a nuclear plant THEY occupy, don't bother to tell us what Russia has to say-
DW with a stunning work of fantasy fiction, based on the most unreliable sources imaginable-

A piece I wrote on the subject-

Posted by: muttman | Aug 7 2022 16:16 utc | 70

This may be just a tad OT as far as the NYT spewing endless garbage on ukraine but this link notes the garbage spewed about Orban of Hungary:

Posted by: Taras77 | Aug 7 2022 16:47 utc | 71

Feel free to delete if this is not appropriate for this article. Truth reporting vs. fake reporting!

Reporterfy Media has just released an awesome video titled, "China's Military POWER Explained: Just how strong is the Chinese military?"

Posted by: Sam Smith | Aug 7 2022 17:36 utc | 72

Feel free to delete if this is not appropriate for this article. Truth reporting vs. fake reporting!

Reporterfy Media has just released an awesome video titled, "China's Military POWER Explained: Just how strong is the Chinese military?"

Posted by: Sam Smith | Aug 7 2022 17:36 utc | 73

I posted a comment on the NYT website regarding the "Russia Shortfalls..." article which made the same criticisms about sourcing and inaccuracies. Of course, the comment was censored and never published. Never underestimate the vanity of journos.

Posted by: dollarbill | Aug 7 2022 18:23 utc | 74

Re: drag queens

There is a difference between drag queens in comedy shows (ex: Corporal Klinger in M*A*S*H) and authority figures in a small child's life (who are not the child's parents) indoctrinating the child to believe that pretending to be something you are not is desirable behavior.

I understand that society doesn't need any more breeders, but I also think it is understandable that some parents might not want the state programming their children into taking their genes out of the gene pool. If we need to limit population growth then we should do it honestly like the Chinese did with the "One Child Policy" rather than dishonestly like the West is doing by trying to scramble kids' perceptions.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 7 2022 18:27 utc | 75

"Despite the idiot commonplace that government can't do anything, the truth is that to really get things done usually takes the government. That includes getting information. So, yes, most news sources are going to repeat the government sources because that's often the best information"
Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 7 2022 15:27 utc | 64

oh it's not because the reporters' jobs depend on regurgitating propaganda then? anybody find those Iraqi wmd's yet? how about those incubator babies? even you know this is horseshit, johnson. the new york times, the washington post and almost all of the rest of the msm has completely ignored truth to post government lies, and it has been getting worse for decades. at least during Vietnam the establishment press was fairly critical. and here you are pretending it has something to do with an interest in reporting the truth.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 7 2022 18:34 utc | 76

How much of it is really laziness and how much of it is fear or being the ones to be afraid of? We can say the same for Iraq, in fact we can say it even more clearly for Iraq and yet it still happened.

You have to name the neocons, who they are, what they want and why they are so good at evading criticism otherwise nothing will change until they fuck up so spectacularly they get tossed aside but the damage will have been done. See lately the icing out of AIPAC by several high profile mainstream Democrats, after the whole justifying murdering journalists bit but the damage has been done. But, of course, they'll end up endorsing a 'moderate' version which somehow has the same essential policies.

Posted by: Altai | Aug 7 2022 19:25 utc | 77

the link
the Norwegian @ 51 published is very important and worth studying.. IT does what few others have done, it explains the hell of propaganda, in psychological terms and it gives a biological basis for knowing what must be done if ever Humanity is to overcome Mass psychosis.. how to avoid Menticide, how to avoid the spell of delusions, and how not be counted in the collective psychosis..

recommended reading for all who are concerned. Thanks Norwegian. aside from point about the backfire effect wrt those who already have formed a belief, few people have posted information about the psychology and biology of propaganda.

I think the only defense is to understand how to avoid the weapons propagandist use.

Posted by: snake | Aug 7 2022 19:29 utc | 78

I get a real charge out of the sexually fearful homophobes, who are forever riding the trans train.
Their concern for “the children” is funny as f*ck.
Carlin always found you child sniffers hilarious, too.
Until the concept of trans showed up, sexual confusion was only theoretical, right?
Just spitballing here, but I think that Gruff, and the rest of the fearful here, are not accurately giving voice to their real concern.
You boys are just afraid that you might mistakenly put your dick in a former man.
Am I on to something?
How about you boys form a PRIVATE support group to hash out those issues.
Many would appreciate it, I think.
I wish you well.

Posted by: $outhpaw | Aug 7 2022 19:45 utc | 79

The practice b describes is over 100 years old, before radio, when genuine journalists--investigative reporters--were called Muckrakers, which was a badge of honor at the time. Julian Assange is one in a line of such people. Unknown to most is George Seldes, whose works are available at The Archive. I also suggest this. I've cited his work here on a few occasions. Then there's I.F. Stone.

I don't know what the content of Soviet media was specifically like, but from what I've read it's very similar to the crap reproduced above. IMO, Russian and Chinese media are far more trustworthy than anything published or broadcast in the West precisely because their citizenry won't stand for such crap like Westerners.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 7 2022 19:51 utc | 80

pretzelattack@77 ignores the part of my comment where I cite government lying, so obviously it wasn't a comment saying the government doesn't lie. It's a simple observation, that any legitimate reporting starts with people who know something about the subject and that is frequently going to be, surprise, people whose job it is, which often includes government people. It's why most of the lies in the press are unquestioning assumptions of national mythology, like American exceptionalism and the God-given capitalism and the God-given Constitution and the nearly divine moral superiority of the American Way of Life. And yes, lots of commenters here share versions of the very same ideas, especially if they also have some convenient scapegoat like "the Deep State" to take the blame. Despite all the hot air about how the MSM is corrupt, the same media are believed when they act as police stenographers or rave about Black Lives Matter or moral panic about crime in Chesa Boudin's general vicinity or whatever the Enemy of the Day is. It's why just calling everyone you don't like a liar and pretending your favorite drum machine is a legit reporter just isn't good enough.

The unspoken premise is that "we" meaning those who dutifully repeat the favorite buzzwords and troll the rest of humanity outside the blessed circle of the MoA commentariat are smarter. But I say that most people here can't even get over the media finally having the balls to actually call Trump, a nearly pathological liar, a liar. Most of them are exactly like the people they think they are criticizing, except that the "sheeple" they despise are not usually calling for their enemies to be put in jail or killed, something getting more and more popular around here.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 7 2022 19:58 utc | 81

Fearful? I don't think many parents opposing deviant sex education for kindergarteners are so much fearful, though some might be. On the other hand, it does seem fearful for people to hysterically hyperventilate that not being allowed to groom kindergarteners for gay sex is the same as genocide.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 7 2022 20:01 utc | 82

William Gruff@78 spouts the usual witless guff. Story telling hour does not make the story teller an authority figure and it is insolence to pretend this is a rational objection. Indoctrinating children to believe in unworthy authority figures is not a bad thing when it comes to clergy? What a joke.

Once again, no one ever "taught" heterosexuality to children. Yet many a child has grown to "achieve" this supposedly holy state while being left in shocking ignorance. It's a sexual response, closer to hunger or thirst than to nationalism or a commitment to the free market. No one ever taught a child to be hungry or thirsty. But like William Gruff they can ignore the task of teaching children to exercise a good diet, that is, to understand the facts of life, including human variation. It's like punishing left-handed children for being left-handed...which was/is a thing by the way or punishing identical twins for being identical, which also was/is a thing.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 7 2022 20:11 utc | 83

Cross post from William Gruff@83 "Fearful? I don't think..." No, William Gruff doesn't think. Believing grooming kindergarteners for gay sex is a thing is not thinking, thought writing it may just be cynical lying.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 7 2022 20:14 utc | 84

Earlier I wrote that the top ‘terrorist’ was killed in Gaza. Indeed my error. It is now reported that ’second senior Islamic Jihad,’ — all amid war worries — NOT as I wrote the top ‘terrorist.’
My apologies indeed, to the top ‘terrorist’, as well as people of Gaza.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Aug 7 2022 20:28 utc | 85

William Gruff | Aug 7 2022 20:01 utc | 83

Unfortunately, "grooming" as it seems to be practised, is simply a way to castrate young boys "willingly".

I once saw the result of that in Saudi Arabia (in 1969-70's), where a young boy of about 10 danced in front of a crowd celebrating a marriage. Probably more erotic than could be done by a 10 yr. old girl (Never seen that so no way to really compare!), but you have to remember the division of the sexes in SA. ie. The women have a super time together without men; dances, singing, jazzy clothes (as reported by my wife) etc. While the men sit outside on carpets listening to poets, (you feel the stones underneath grow more pointed with time). Poets are welcomed, and well paid. The one I saw had a cadillac.

This was partly due to habits dating to an ealier period than King Saud, when slaves were being "freed". Many had been castrated, and/so when freed, had nowhere to go so they stayed on as servants (Sudanese, who had also been trained by the British, were especially prized, and had the right to red waistbands for status)

The point being that neither the Sudanese or the young boy had any say in the matter. It was not a choice allowed for them.

The problem I have with this castration is that children do not have the discernement necessary to make any knowledgeable "choice" until about 16 (if then). Education is one thing - irreversible action is another.

PS. The "castrata" were prized as singers in Italy I believe.

Posted by: Stonebird | Aug 7 2022 20:29 utc | 86

@snake | Aug 7 2022 19:29 utc | 79

Many thanks for taking the time to review and respond! As we have seen many times in these comment sections, the western society is now dominated by an 'elite' that have lost touch with reality and are pursuing completely irrational goals in direct conflict with their own people's interest. They have become delusional and the delusions are now manifest in large sections of western society.

MASS PSYCHOSIS: An epidemic of madness - it occurs when a large portion of society loses touch with reality & descends into delusions.

As you rightly mention - menticide - where totalitarians can manipulate such delusions by "killing of the mind". The populations are manipulated by sowing of fear in "waves of terror" with periods of calm followed by ever increasing levels of fear and terror. We are now several steps up in this ladder, in a period of relative calm (obviously excluding what people in Ukraine are experiencing) after several waves of terror/calm, but we already see the next wave of terror coming up: insufficient access to energy and very high inflation.

In my interpretation, the video on mass psychosis and menticide describes accurately what we in the west are experiencing now.

"Logic can be met with logic while illogic cannot".

"Society turns on itself, urged by the ruling authorities".

Watch the video to understand and also find ways of counteract the menticide attack using parallel structures.
MASS PSYCHOSIS - How an Entire Population Becomes MENTALLY ILL

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 7 2022 20:30 utc | 87

Like it or not adults are authority figures for small children. What an adult says to a small child is gospel to the child. This is simply a fact of developmental psychology. It is why the religion a child is brought up to believe is usually the one they believe the rest of their lives, and why children who are not brought up within a religion generally don't bother picking one up when they are older. Small children do not have the cognitive development nor the experience yet to determine whether or not an adult is trying to feed them nonsense.

It is true that children don't have to be taught heterosexuality. That is the default state that children develop in. If you want them to be homosexual then that takes some work. That work is often referred to as "grooming".

Cynical lying is claiming that what the conservatives refer to as "critical race theory" and gay child sex grooming doesn't exist. That cat is out of the bag, though, so the more the delusionals try to gaslight the deplorables the less attention the deplorables pay to the delusionals.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 7 2022 20:47 utc | 88

Stonebird @87

Yeah, from what I understand castrato culture was pretty big in Europe in the 15th and 16th centuries. Many castrato became the period's superstars. Maybe some people want a return to that kind of culture?

Anyway, the childhood victims of genital mutilation usually are "willing", at least as much as a child can be considered "willing".

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 7 2022 20:57 utc | 89

Stonebird @87: "...children do not have the discernement necessary to make any knowledgeable "choice" until about 16..."

I would argue that today even most 16 year olds don't have the emotional maturity to make that kind of decision. Half a century ago sixteen year olds perhaps had the emotional and cognitive development to competently make that kind of decision but emotional development has been increasingly retarded over the last several decades. Children today do not achieve the level of maturity of say a 1970s 16 year old until well into their third decade if life, and not infrequently not even then.

Of course, I am just referring to childhood development in western culture here. The Global South does not seem to be suffering from this society-wide infantilization.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 7 2022 21:16 utc | 90

William Gruff | Aug 7 2022 20:57 utc | 90

"Anyway, the childhood victims of genital mutilation usually are "willing", at least as much as a child can be considered "willing".

Nearly right - although I would say that children are NOT considered capable of "choosing" what may be "right" or wrong by the society even now. This is just a justification used to excupulate the parent or groomer - "they chose it....". In Roman times, children were not even considered as "human" until the age of five. We may have moved on from that, but I really do get horrified that parents will subject their children to almost anything if the authorities say that they can. (now medical).

(Female circumcision, and now Vaxx for infants). It seems that the MSM and "authorities" are claiming that they or conveniently nominated "orificiers"
(officers) can dispose of the corporal integrity of others, when and if they so desire. The disability of believing absolutely in the crap that others spout, is not limited to children. A TV gorilla will do the same for the adults.

Posted by: Stonebird | Aug 7 2022 21:19 utc | 91

William Gruff | Aug 7 2022 21:16 utc | 91

Totally agree, with the exception that from (limited) experience in Africa and PNG, the ado will go along with the tribal directives to undergo initiation. (eg. scarification etc. Enduring pain is a common trait) Just to join the group as an adult. Which brings us back to - "What an adult says to a small child is gospel to the child", as you said before. Which means he/she will repeat the same process.

If the sex-change of minors becomes an accepted cultural norm, it will be incredibly difficult to eradicate later.

Posted by: Stonebird | Aug 7 2022 21:31 utc | 92

I recall the Vienna Boys Choir and other similar organizations faded from public view soon after their methods of "managing" their boys became known.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 7 2022 21:39 utc | 93

If you really want to be appalled, read the comments to that NYT piece in order of popularity. I don't know how many of their upvotes are from genuine readers (as opposed to bots - though you could apply that uncertainty to the comments themselves as well) but the level of ignorance is just astonishing.

And what's this obsession with the A-10? They wouldn't last an hour in the skies over Ukraine. Do these idiots not realise that even if Russia's bigger SAMs were put out of commission, the Russians have MANPADS too?

The average Westerner seems to think NATO is invincible, and that there are endless Ukrainians willing to die for Zelenskyy continuing his grip on power as long as we keep funnelling weapons to them.

They blame Germany for - mysteriously! - continuing to buy Russian gas... as if there is some costless alternative waiting in the wings just waiting to be wheeled out.

Winter is coming. I try to wake up all my friends and fellow citizens but my God! it's an uphill battle.

Posted by: Observer | Aug 7 2022 22:03 utc | 94

Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 7 2022 19:58 utc | 82

as usual you ignore the extent and long history of government lying, in claiming that the journalists who uncritically accept it, which is the whole f/n msm media in many instances, are simply trying to discover the truth efficiently. another example is the years long effort to claim Putin was responsible for Trump being elected. tell me now many msm journalists lost their jobs over that, in their inefficient search for the truth. you pretend that government lying is not the policy of the government in many areas, and ignore the long history of journalists being complicit in that, as we see demonstrated, once again, in the current propaganda about Ukraine.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 7 2022 22:05 utc | 95

steven t johnson

and maybe one or so other progressive extremists on this board. Hear me out.

I have no problem with the gender identity of others. I consider every individual expression of any personality trait, not only gender-related, as adding something valuable to life. Even when it is personally displeasing in some occasions, who am I to give moral judgements? How can I say anything about a person or a group based just on my own moral displeasure? I find the works of Dali horrible but I appreciate their existence and can even find some ethical satisfaction from the composition. But never will I in my dreams say that it is not worthy as art.

None of us deplorables cares one bit what your moral and ethical codes are, or what choices you made based on whatever the situation was at some time. You dress and act like a cross between a modern walkshow and an 18th century queen, I find it super for you and it makes me happy that we have people around that add richness to the tapestry. That are different in a real sense, not just dressing up. You can come and sit at my table any time.

But the moment you start sexualising my children by talking to them about gender identities - you are not welcome anymore. Making a decision whether you are a boy in a womens body or the other way around, or even wanting to cut off ones genitals, can only be made when there is enough experience built up in this world to understand consequences.

That age is > 18. You know, the same age one is considered mature enough to understand the consequences of driving a trivial thing such as a car.

I trust and respect my kids to make the choices they feel the best later in life. But I dont let them play in the driving seat of a car, especially not by a race driver in full regalia and unsupervised at that.

Your lot has a problem I call moral relativism. There is nothing you cant justify to yourself as long as you can rationalise it as beneficial to the opressed or somehow increasing the awareness of others about unequality. Damned be the consequences, lets give these people I perceive as oppressing me hell!

Your open society types that are in power everywhere have ruined whatever we had of a predictable life in this world by constant deconstructing and rationalising of moral and ethical norms for some quaint personal satisfaction, damned be the consequences! Humans are not resilient as a society as you might think. I have seen the collapse of one and seeing first hand the depravity, corruption, economic loss and fear for ones life one haves when institutions of justice like police and courts are awash with moral warriors protecting classes of so-called oppressed but wrecking havoc in the process. When the police tell you they cant do anything about the drugged out loser invading your home. Or when a member of a protected minority that has been elected to some office as a diversity candidate - making good money for no work - tells you they will pay the buildings fees if they like to, otherwise not, since “they now hold office”.

I am BTW still wondering why on Earth havent you still understood that the fundamentals of the idealistic conflict eating up in the world now is us against you guys. What are you doing here on this blog supporting Russia? They are your mortal enemy, read Dugin! Or are you maybe here because you in fact dont give a s*** about social justice, equity (what is in fact forced equality), gender identity etc. but what drives you is simply rebellious anti-establishment that you think you found here? Defending the ways journalist relativise the truth because “the state said it” is kind of a give away.

Posted by: alek_a | Aug 7 2022 23:09 utc | 96

Posted by: Observer | Aug 7 2022 22:03 utc | 95

Western cirizens by far and large see the war as something akin to a Netflix show and are “rooting” for the “good gyus”. It is a travesty of the greatest level. It is entertainment. And the governments and media, that btw make a good buck on it, gives it to the people. Maybe with Trump gone they needed something new on the airwaves, who knows how depraved are they or how deep the rot goes. How else can you explain the fact 100s of thousands are dying because “Putin bad”?

“We shall now introduce a new weapon in the Arena, lets see what happens and whether our guys make a good use of it”.

Like that movie with Arnold Swartzenegger and the game show to death. Or like The Squid Game that was a huge hit with the adolescents a while ago.

This will of course all change when there will be consequences in a few months time. When the grownups take the video console away.

Posted by: alek_a | Aug 7 2022 23:23 utc | 97

once again...who cares? would every idiot who reads MSM stenography suddenly come to their senses if they read more reliable sources? that's like getting mad at mcdonald's for serving inedible salt and fat based garbage disguised as food; that's what they do. their customers know they're poisoning their bodies just like NYT readers are poisoning their minds.

also: larry himself says and believes an astounding amount of stupid shit. he's an ex-spook for eff's sake. stray from his russia/ukraine editorials and it's just dumb scum right "OMG BLM durrrrrrrrrrr george floyd was a turrurist durrrr" retardation oozing from the screen. (exhibit A: the punisher skull with US flag colors. SO F_CKING RETARDED.) but whatever...after the SMO is done i predict he and a lot of other sites will have a hard drop in viewers.

Posted by: the pair | Aug 7 2022 23:28 utc | 98

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 7 2022 18:27 utc | 76

Agreed. There's a big difference between tolerance and endorsement. As a result one can tolerate something & loathe it at the same time

Posted by: xLemming | Aug 7 2022 23:57 utc | 99

My thought is that these journalists are unknown factors much as are the Ukranian citizens being herded into the front lines. The latter have their lives and the lives of their loved ones to protect, and perhaps those, their loved ones, know how hard it is for their parents to lead in effect a double life, to make this awful sacrifice for them. I hope for the day those having to do or write what their consciences inwardly despise can be free to tell us how they really have felt.

It will be an awakening. There will come a day...

Posted by: juliania | Aug 7 2022 23:57 utc | 100

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