Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 12, 2022
Ukraine’s Mystic Kherson Offensive Did Not, And Will Not Happen

There has been much talk in 'western' media about a Ukrainian offensive in the southern Kherson region. However most of the claims made about it seem to be divorced from the observable realities on the ground. The detailed look below provides that there is no such offensive and that there is little chance that there will ever be one.

The purported offensive has for months been a core talking point:

Lets look at the map of the Kherson area and how it has changed over time. LiveUAmap, the source used here for these maps, is know to be more in favor of Ukrainian claims than Russian ones. The red parts are held by Russian forces.

This is the Kherson area as depicted on May 13, 2022:


Source LiveUAmap 13.5.bigger

This is the Kherson area as depicted on May 14, 2022:



Source LiveUAmap 14.5.bigger

We see that the maintainers of LiveUAmap kept the front line as it was, but added a gray zone on the Ukrainian side. I am not sure what it is supposed to show. It may designate the extend to which forward Russian reconnaissance units had been observed during their February-March offensive in the area. Since then the gray area has for some become the 'success' of a 'Ukrainian counter-offensive'. But Russian forces had never held onto that gray zone nor was there any significant fighting about it.

This is the Kherson area as depicted today, August 12, 2022:


Source LiveUAmap 12.8.bigger

I see two small differences between the May 14 map and the current one. On the west side the minor settlement of Pravdyne and the fields around it have changed hands.

May 14

Source LiveUAmap 14.5.bigger
Aug 12

Source LiveUAmap 12.8.bigger

Another change happened around a small river at the norther part of the front line south of Kvkaz. The May 14 front line there was simplified as being straight. The real front line ran along the winded Ingulets river in that area.

May 14

Source LiveUAmap 14.5.bigger

At the beginning of June Ukrainian forces crossed the river around the towns Davydiv Brid, Bilohirka and Adriivka only to get slaughtered by Russian artillery. The area has since been no man's land.

Aug 12

Source LiveUAmap 12.8.bigger

One small town retaken and a failed river crossing attempt is all the much vaunted Kherson offensive has achieved since May.

That may well be because, despite the noise, there has been and will be no Ukrainian Kherson offensive. For the Ukrainian leaders in Kiev that offensive is only a joke.

On August 9 Zelenski advisor Mikhail Podolyak talked with a Ukrainian language BBC outlet. The Ukrainian Ctrana online news site reported about it (machine translation):

Podolyak called the words about the counterattack on Kherson "part of the information and psychological operation"

Reports of counteroffensives of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the southern direction are part of the "information-psychological special operation."

This was stated by adviser to the head of the OP Mikhail Podolyak in an interview with the BBC.

"Was it the IPSO? Of course, today all public comments are part of the IPSO. We need to demoralize the Russian army. They must understand that there will always be a territory of fire," he said.

Nevertheless, Podolyak clarified that "the events on the Antonovsky bridge show that it is essential for us to liberate Kherson" (as the only regional center that was under the occupation of the Russian Federation after February 24).

"And therefore, our army is already taking certain actions for this today," he said.

That news did not reach the Washington Post propagandist David Ignatius. On August 11 he still lauded the non-existing 'southern offensive':

A southern offensive opens in the Ukraine war

The grinding war of attrition in Ukraine might be entering a new phase as the Ukrainian military prepares an offensive to recover occupied land in the southern region surrounding Kherson, and Russia escalates its rhetoric by charging that the United States “is directly involved in the conflict.”

Ukraine appears to have begun its new southern campaign with a bold attack Tuesday on a Russian air base in Crimea, along the Black Sea coast.

With its long-anticipated southern offensive, Ukraine evidently hopes to regain momentum against Russian forces that have suffered heavy losses of soldiers and equipment since they invaded on Feb. 24. At a time when Russia is strained and vulnerable, Ukrainian leaders want to show that they can reclaim lost ground and ultimately prevail.

On August 12, a day after the Ignatius screed was published, four Washington Post reporters painted a different picture:

On the Kherson front lines, little sign of a Ukrainian offensive

MYKOLAIV REGION, Ukraine — On the front line in southeast Ukraine, there is little sign that a major counteroffensive is brewing.

For weeks, Western intelligence and military analysts have predicted that a Ukrainian campaign to retake the strategic port city of Kherson and surrounding territory is imminent. But in trenches less than a mile from Russia’s positions in the area, Ukrainian soldiers hunker down from an escalating onslaught of artillery, with little ability to advance.

The progress Ukrainian forces had made here in recent months — recapturing a string of villages from Russia’s control — has largely stalled, with soldiers exposed in the open terrain.

The roads that soldiers zip along among the scorched wheat fields at the front lines are pockmarked with craters from previous strikes, guided by Russia’s Orlan drones that allow them to pick and choose targets.

“There is nowhere to hide,” said Yuri, who has fought here without a break since the beginning of the war, and like other soldiers did not give his last name, in line with protocol. His unit has a hodgepodge stock: modern antitank weapons and a Soviet machine gun manufactured in 1944, and the focus here is holding the line.

Ukrainian military officials are tight-lipped on any timeline for a wider push, but say they need more supplies of Western weapons before one can happen. Ukraine lacks the capacity to launch a full-scale offensive anywhere along the 1,200-mile front line, one security official conceded.

The area north of Kherson is flat land with open fields. There is no place where one could securely assemble a force big enough to punch through the frontline. Ukrainian units went into hiding in Mykolaiv (Nikolaev in Russian writing) where they have dispersed among the civilian population after several of their concentrations had been attacked by Russian missile forces:

One woman took me to see her daughter’s school, smashed by Russian missiles. Through the broken concrete you could see a shelf of library books exposed to the sun and rain. Instead of blaming Russia for firing missiles at the school, she blamed Ukraine for quartering soldiers there. (..)

When I asked her about Putin’s aims, she said: ‘I don’t know. He must have his reasons for what he’s doing.’ Did she think what he was doing was right? ‘I never get involved in politics.’ She mentioned that salaries in Russian-annexed Crimea were higher than in Ukraine. She’d been angry, earlier on in the fighting, when Russian troops were approaching Mykolaiv, about how close Ukrainian armoured vehicles were to her house. She was Russian-born. She was unhappy that Russian language teaching was disappearing from Ukraine. She said people were punished for using Russian.

Another well-informed man told me what most locals would not say, that after a devastating strike on a Mykolaiv barracks in March, which killed scores and perhaps hundreds of marines, the authorities adopted a policy of dispersal, with small groups of Ukrainian personnel spending the night in a wide array of buildings, including schools.

The above quoted LRB piece, which mostly takes the Ukrainian side, details the difficulties the Ukrainians have in launching any offensive. (Sorry for the length of the quote but the details matter as they confirm the take above):

When Sasha’s company got to Posad-Pokrovske, they spent the first night in a school. The next day it was flattened in an air strike. They spent the next three and a half months living in concrete pipes under a bridge. ‘I’m already used to it,’ he said. ‘A typical day is they shell and bomb us from morning to night. Mum says, “Where are you?” and I say: “I’m home.” It’s our home now. People say, “We’re looking forward to you coming home,” and we say: “We are home.”’

Bodies of dead civilians have been lying unburied in Posad-Pokrovske for months. The soldiers aren’t allowed to collect them; since they’re civilians, it has to be done by the police, and the police don’t come.

A handful of villages have been liberated in the north of the Russian bridgehead, and Ukraine has won a toehold on the hostile side of a smaller river, the Ingulets. But mainly the two sides remain a few miles apart, with more lines of artillery further back. In the flat, open landscape, with little cover except the trees along the roads, any attempt by one side to breach the other’s lines is subject to withering fire from anti-tank missiles and guns, or shelling. Both sides launch drones to spy out artillery targets; when the artillery fires, it becomes the target for the other side’s artillery.

Russia​ has an overwhelming advantage in all these areas. It has more artillery guns and rockets than Ukraine, by a large margin. It has more attack planes and helicopters. It has more anti-aircraft missiles to shoot down Ukrainian drones, and a crushing advantage in electronic warfare systems to jam them. ‘It’s easier for them,’ Sasha said. ‘They haul in shells by rail, by the wagonload. They unload them with cranes. They dig shelters with bulldozers. They shoot rockets from morning till night as if they came out of a machine. It’s shameful to admit – they have drones flying over us 24/7 and we have one. Sometimes we can see what they’re up to … but it’s embarrassing. We don’t have the capability.’

Ukraine has been good at hiding its military, but even so, the absence in Mykolaiv and the surrounding countryside of the signs of a build-up of equipment, troops and supplies that you might expect for a counter-offensive is striking. There’s only so much you can move by night. If Ukraine is using its much vaunted mobilisation to expand its army with new units to retake Kherson, it’s being done with extraordinary stealth – or it’s simply taking a long time to integrate a chaotic array of foreign weapons and untrained recruits. Sasha was coy about his unit’s losses, but he did say they hadn’t been replaced.

No new weapons are coming into the Mykolaiv area. Front line units are depleted and have not been rotated out since March. Russian forces have overwhelming material superiority in the area.

There is no Ukrainian Kherson offensive. There will be no Ukrainian Kherson offensive.

If there will be an offensive in the general area it will be launched by the Russian side which will overrun the few exhausted Ukrainian forces which hold that frontline.

The few Ukrainian operations, missile strikes on bridges that are easily replaced by ferries, sabotage acts on a Crimean air base, are minor pin pricks to the Russian side. They will not change the imbalance of forces or the outcome of the war.

Comments

Is Crimea safe now: How is the peninsula actually protected? by Viktor Baranets irpn Russian,

Posted by: rp | Aug 12 2022 18:04 utc | 101

fnord @94: “I think sometimes we just get mad at people who [disagree with us].
Nah, that is just you. If I got mad at everyone I disagreed with I would be mad at everyone. That would be exhausting!
Referring to someone as a “troll” doesn’t in any way imply anger, and it also isn’t just a way to say one disagrees with a poster. A troll is specifically someone who engages in discussion to disrupt the discussion or to promote a specific narrative. Communication for a troll is always just one way. Classic troll behavior is when their narrative is debunked they reiterate that narrative as if the debunking never happened. They enter a discussion purely to push an agenda and have no intention of modifying that agenda based upon the content of the discussion. Not infrequently this is because they are paid to promote (market) a particular agenda.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 12 2022 18:13 utc | 102

bevin @65–
I see we’re writing in similar vein. I intend to expand my comment into an article for Ukraine is only one of several global stages where our drama is unfolding. Now we have the pipsqueaks yammering again as RT reports:
“NATO state mulls closing Baltics for Russian Navy: Estonia and Finland discussed missile plans that would close the Baltic Sea to Russia, Tallinn says.”
No, such plans wouldn’t “close the Baltic Sea”; rather, they would ensure War in the region occurred to the delight of the rapidly failing Plundering Nations. The Finns ought to know better.
Meanwhile, mass shootings by deranged people have spread to Europe, Montenegro specifically. And to prove my point about the Plundering Nations decline, RT reports:
“Worst-performing G7 economy revealed: Second-quarter GDP shrank by more in the US than in the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Canada and Japan, data shows.”
And if GDP was properly calculated, it would show years of decline as Neoliberal Parasitism plunders the real economy. RT reports about NATO being bled dry in an unusual manner:
“Most German howitzers in Ukraine out of order – official: Only five out of 15 Western-supplied PzH 2000 howitzers are still operational in Ukraine, says a German politician.”
The fault is “overuse”:
“While Kiev has yet to officially confirm Faber’s statements, it was reported last month by Der Spiegel that Ukraine had informed Germany that a number of PzH 2000 howitzers were malfunctioning after extensive use. According to the outlet, the German Ministry of Defense believed the issues may have resulted from high intensity firing, which may have impacted the artillery round loading mechanism. Der Spiegel said 100 shots a day was considered a ‘high level of shooting intensity’ for the howitzer. [My Emphasis]
Incredible! Germany’s technical reputation just took a huge hit on par with the F-35. I’ll bet Martyanov has fun with this info. And then there’s this op/ed to ice the cake:
“Afghanistan all over again: Ukraine’s rampant corruption means the Western supply of weapons is likely to eventually backfire: US elites have thrown the country into a proxy conflict without properly evaluating the consequences.” [My Emphasis]
The author could have led with Vietnam all over again as I did above. At least he acknowledges the Outlaw US Empire’s ownership of the affair.
The utter failure of those in the Collective West to look beyond their noses at the consequences of their actions is astounding. And while some will agree with Lukyanov, I don’t:
“Fyodor Lukyanov: Collapse of the 20th century order means the world is in a very dangerous place.”
That “order” is the reason for today’s chaos; its collapse means deliverance from that chaos and the beginning of a new era.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2022 18:14 utc | 103

@ Posted by: Macpott | Aug 12 2022 16:27 utc | 74
@ Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 12 2022 17:49 utc | 100
Thank you for the explaination of term “khokhol”.
They need to do better than that – something that connects with western audience.

Posted by: jared | Aug 12 2022 18:14 utc | 104

@Posted by: Nico | Aug 12 2022 13:08 utc | 22
Thanks Nico, but you give us a link to the Dutch translation of The Hidden Truth about the War in Ukraine , an article by Jacques Baud which he (a French-speaking Swiss) seems to have written directly in English. I think it is better to refer directly to the English text. The link has already been posted by several barflies and I believe by b himself:
https://www.thepostil.com/the-hidden-truth-about-the-war-in-ukraine/?
Baud is a retired Swiss army colonel who has long worked with NATO. Here is an article that provides several links to Jacques Baud’s texts:
https://theswissbox.org/2022/05/3e-guerre-mondiale-avec-jacques-baud/

Posted by: Leuk | Aug 12 2022 18:15 utc | 105

From a new posting at Dr. Hudson’s site, “Moscow’s New Found Independence”:

Hudson noted, however, that “the biggest beneficiary” of Russia having been laden with sanctions is Washington. This is because Europe, which is heavily reliant on Russian energy, is faced with simultaneous energy and food crises, thus leaving it with little ability to pay attention to other matters.
“Basically, Washington doesn’t care if Russia wins the war [in Ukraine], because the US has succeeded in eliminating its competition in Europe, especially Germany.”

The Primary Plundering Nation is clearly in desperation as it’s now forced to plunder its allies and its own citizenry. Very soon it will have nothing left to plunder without dying a nuclear death as its bugs have proven uncontrollable.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2022 18:27 utc | 106

jared @106: “They need to do better than that – something that connects with western audience.”
I am curious why you think it is important for Russians to try to “connect with western audiences”. Do you think Russian efforts in that regard could change anything? Do you think western audiences would listen anyway?
I think it would be a complete wasted effort for the Russians to try to “connect with” people of a degenerate and putrefying culture that have no intention of listening. What is the point?

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 12 2022 18:39 utc | 107

The idea that Russia has all the time in the world and can wait for winter while the West plots further outrages and war crimes including destroying nuclear power plants, will be Russia’s undoing. The war for Ukraine hasn’t started yet. When it does Russia will know it. While Russia dithers with half measures the U.S. is provoking and escalating crossing red lines. All of Russia’s gains, victories and sacrifices can be easily undone by a few attacks on nuclear plants irradiating the areas of occupation. Then the real war can begin and the decades of U.S. military spending on orbital weapons platforms which are never mentioned will decide the conflict. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Posted by: NewWorldDisorder | Aug 12 2022 18:50 utc | 108

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 12 2022 18:39 utc | 110
I’m afraid the disconection is going to be total, the Baltic runts are demanding the cancelation of Shengen visas for Russians, symmetry will take care of the new iron curtain even if this time is being erected on this side, but proportionality will force the situation and people that had their careers based in dealing with Europe, be it commerce, culture of politics, are going to be really f*cked up, and I include myself in that group, plus a lot of friends back in Russia. It is a disgrace what those eurocrats are doing, I feel like puking when I see their snouts. But as the song goes, it’s not evening yet, I hope things are going to get hot and we’ll get rid of those servants of empire come the cooler weather.
“The squadron is chasing us on our heels.
The sea is calm and there is no avoiding the meeting.
But the captain said calmly to us:
“It’s not evening yet, it’s not evening yet!”

https://youtu.be/Rblw3asLMLU

Posted by: Paco | Aug 12 2022 18:53 utc | 109

“…decades of U.S. military spending on [$435 hammers and $10000 toilet seats]…”
Fixed that for you.
There are no orbital weapons platforms.
There is no more conspicuous place you can put a weapons platform than in orbit. Everyone could see it without even trying, and the Russians (and Chinese too) could destroy it at will.
No, you didn’t get any cool secret weapons for the $trillions you spent on the military. You just got robbed, that’s all.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 12 2022 19:01 utc | 110

“…I think it would be a complete wasted effort for the Russians to try to “connect with” people of a degenerate and putrefying culture that have no intention of listening…” William Gruff@110
The lead in Europe is increasingly being taken by the ersatz nation states of the east (Don Rumsfeld’s New Europe).
And what can the Russians, who know them better than they (whose leaders were often born in Canada and bred in the USA) know themselves, possibly wish to discuss with them?
The notion that European Public Opinion is of any importance any more is based upon a misunderstanding of history. There was a period in which it was of importance because it was alive. In play.
There were in Europe large sectors both of the populace and the intelligentsia opposed to imperialism and suspicious of American influence and culture. There was a battle to be fought. Europe was seen, probably wrongly, as generally committed to social democracy, the welfare state, universal social services, including healthcare and other policies which were, frankly, modelled on the Soviet Union’s.
That is no longer the case: there are remnants of ‘social europe’ but extreme neo-liberalism, including anti-union laws and the use of military power to keep wages low, is now the rule. The left is, if not dead, in the throes of an existential crisis. Liberalism, which for so long was passed off as an alternative critique of imperialism, has succumbed to the CIA and the Congress for Cultural Freedom. Even nationalism, of the sort practised by de Gaulle, has become just another scam within the political caste.
In other words Europe no longer matters, nor can it until it declares its independence and indicates an aspiration to, eventual, sovereignty.
There is no reason for Russia or China to care what the monkey perched on the organ grinder’s shoulder is thinking, their business is with the organ grinder, old, drunk and ragged as he may appear to be.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 12 2022 19:06 utc | 111

In response to

In other words Europe no longer matters, nor can it until it declares its independence and indicates an aspiration to, eventual, sovereignty.
There is no reason for Russia or China to care what the monkey perched on the organ grinder’s shoulder is thinking, their business is with the organ grinder, old, drunk and ragged as he may appear to be.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 12 2022 19:06 utc | 115

Nicely put. So, is that organ grinder more like Pope Frank or one of the Rothschilds?
And why would spell checker not know the word Rothschilds?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 12 2022 19:17 utc | 112

Paco @112
Division of the world by an Iron Curtain will not work out very well for the Empire this time. All of the industry will be on the other side of that curtain and the Empire will suffer for the lack of it. The only reason global partition worked out for the US last time was because the US was where all of the industry was.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 12 2022 19:21 utc | 113

I appreciate b’s report on the front line in Kherson.
Wondering about the new ‘front line’ in the Baltic Sea with Finland and Estonia considering the option of making the Baltic Sea NATO’s private sea. Seems like a very provocative move and much more likely to lead to direct conflict with NATO. These are the sort of endless machinations that the US is willing to support. Will the other European countries in NATO step in to prevent this sort of provocation as they did when Latvia stopped access to Kaliningrad or will they be induced to support the closing of the Baltic Sea and the beginning of open war? Or is this just all bluff…like the Kherson Offensive?
RT article NATO Baltic Sea

Posted by: Objective Observer | Aug 12 2022 19:32 utc | 114

Published a few months ago:
“The Catastrophe of Ukrainian Capitalism: How Privatisation Dispossessed & Impoverished the Ukrainian People,” by Renfrey Clarke.
Resistance Books.

Posted by: Glorious Bach | Aug 12 2022 19:35 utc | 115

bevin @115
Putin was correct that the dismantling of the Soviet Union was the “greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the twentieth century”. People wrongly assume Putin was just talking about Russia there. While the tragic condition of the Ukraine today exemplifies that catastrophe, it impacted every country on the planet. It destroyed the last vestiges of the American labor movement and pulled the rug out from under the European left.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 12 2022 19:41 utc | 116

So Dima at Military Summary reported that the Russian security council met to consider the situation at the Zaporozhzhia NPP and afterwards Mr Medvedev announced that if Ukrainian attacks continued and succeeded in damaging the NPP then likely “something” would also happen at Ukraine’s three other NPPs. Wonder if they are listening in Kiev?

Posted by: the pessimist | Aug 12 2022 19:43 utc | 117

Posted by: the pessimist | Aug 12 2022 19:43 utc | 121

Have a look at this post.
Posted by: rp | Aug 12 2022 17:05 utc | 91
You can read exactly what Medvedev had posted.

Posted by: rp | Aug 12 2022 19:59 utc | 118

William Gruff @120–
It opened the door for the total rampage of Neoliberal Plunderers everywhere they went; fortunately, there were only a few places to go along with the Home Front. The irony is the Agr=e of Plunder is ending thanks to the actions of the Plunderers. Another path was open but was shunned thanks to their Pleonexia addiction. And the double irony is they would have become even wealthier while avoiding the crisis they’ve created for themselves, the latter of which is rapidly becoming very apparent and can no longer be hidden.
//////
the pessimist @121–
It’s not Kiev that needs to be reading Medvedev; it’s the Outlaws in Washington DC. But so far, they’ve proven themselves illiterate. Like our newest troll @123.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2022 20:03 utc | 119

yet it can only get worse from here, somehow. there is seemingly no end to this to tunnel and its tunnel vision.
Posted by: mastameta | Aug 12 2022 17:10 utc | 93
Some of it is more extreme than before because the system is spinning out of kilter, but some of it is because you are older and the internet has fractured the information universe providing many more alternative views – this site being a good example. People were more gullible in the 1950’s because they were exposed to far less alternative narrative. That said, it still amazes me how many are totally fooled and accept any storyline they are presented with and also how even among people who have seen through some of that narrative facade there is very little solid knowledge of what is going on, mainly conjecture. We are swimming in a sea of disinformation since birth. Disinformation is our reality. Quite a conundrum!

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 12 2022 20:13 utc | 120

Some of the orbital weapons systems that don’t exist are directed energy weapons which super heat a target causing fire and explosions for instance of ammo dumps and air fields where witnesses saw no incoming missiles(Crimea). Other orbital weapons systems that don’t exist are kinetic weapons systems that drop a tungsten slug from orbit that is accelerated by gravity simulating a meteor strike with the destructive power of a nuke without the radiation. This is what hit China in Tianjin in 2010. Other orbital weapon systems that don’t exist are microwave heaters that heat the atmosphere to redirect the jet stream causing drought and floods or hurricanes when heating the ocean.
There is a reason Russia and China are timid in confronting the U.S. and it’s because they know what some here deny.

Posted by: NewWorldDisorder | Aug 12 2022 20:25 utc | 121

China’s ambassador to Russia grounded in reality unlike some commentators says:
“[T]he US should ‘wake up’ and cease attempts to maintain its global hegemony, which is increasingly waning every day.
“‘The United States is sick in the head with the Cold War mentality. But it’s time for them to wake up and stop their futile attempts to maintain American hegemony,’ Zhang Hanhui said.”
Plunderers afflicted with Pleonexia don’t stop until they die. Their parasitical ways have already eaten away much of the USA’s real economy, and when they’re done with Europe, all that will remain to plunder is North America’s population, where joe9211 will be cheering them on, hoping to avoid becoming a victim.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2022 20:26 utc | 122

Question: At the beginning of the war or special operation nobody would have thought that this conflict would go into day 160 or so. How do you explain this?
Posted by: Phil | Aug 12 2022 20:31 utc | 129
Actually a variety of people have said they want it to drag out so as to “weaken Russia”, so they are (theoretically) getting what they wanted. And the Russians themselves have said they are not in a hurry.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 12 2022 20:33 utc | 123

These sound like very powerful systems.
Have you any more details. Surely if they exist they must be very large satellites with known orbits etc.
What happened in 2010 in Tianjin?

Posted by: Moaobserver | Aug 12 2022 20:35 utc | 124

… It’s not Kiev that needs to be reading Medvedev; it’s the Outlaws in Washington DC. But so far, they’ve proven themselves illiterate. Like our newest troll @123.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2022 20:03 utc | 124

At least the US is far enough away that they won’t be roasted by UA fallout. It’s literally insane for EU leaders to be pretending they don’t know what’s going on while insisting that Zaporizhzhia be handed back to Team Z.
Will the EU position shift, literally, with the prevailing winds?

Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 12 2022 20:37 utc | 125

Posted by: Phil | Aug 12 2022 20:31 utc | 129

It is not a war, but an SMO…for which there’s no time limit. But, time can be used to achieve the result. The result is to weaken the EU/NATO/US, dedollarize the world, make it multi-polar. The heating season is arriving at speed, how many more days to start burning coal, gas, fuel etc, which is either not there, or quite expensive…

Posted by: rp | Aug 12 2022 20:40 utc | 126

Reads like the NATO hosted MSM Writers were descendants of the Black Knight from “Monty Python and the Holy Grail”.
“None shall pass…”
“‘Tis a Flesh Wound…”

Posted by: IronForge | Aug 12 2022 20:45 utc | 127

Phil @129–
Given Russia’s announced goals and their proposals in December, I’m not at all surprised as I’ve written many times including today upthread.
//////
anon2020 @132–
The EU pukes are held on leashes by their Masters in DC, so they’re incapable of listening to anything but their Master’s voice. This event is yet another chip being tossed into the already hefty pile in the center of the geopolitical card table. I call them alienation chips because of how they’re perceived by normal people and the entire Global South.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2022 20:50 utc | 128

Kiev forces used a British-made Brimstone missile in one of their recent attacks on the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, which is currently held by the Russian military.
https://southfront.org/kiev-forces-used-british-missiles-in-recent-attack-on-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant-photos/

Posted by: Hannibal | Aug 12 2022 20:51 utc | 129

“…microwave heaters that heat the atmosphere to redirect the jet stream…”
They must have put a power plant the size of Zaporizhia NPP in orbit to do that, right?
Damn,people, get a sense of proportion!

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 12 2022 20:58 utc | 130

Phil @129: “Question: At the beginning of the war or special operation nobody would have thought that this conflict would go into day 160 or so. How do you explain this?”
My explanation would be that there are lots of really stupid people who form strong opinions on things they know nothing about.
More importantly only idiots would assert “…nobody would have thought…” when plenty of people did think.
You see, the explanation is very simple. Even an idiot can understand it.
You do understand it, right?

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 12 2022 21:06 utc | 131

Nicely put. So, is that organ grinder more like Pope Frank or one of the Rothschilds?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 12 2022 19:17 utc | 116

Your obsession with yesterday’s bogeymen astonishes me. Please recognize that these are the fables that Langley want you to propagate.
There is a reason the CIA let everyone know they “found” a copy of Dr. John Coleman’s “Conspirator’s Hierarchy: Story of the Committee of 300” on Osama bin Laden’s computer when they faked his assassination. It was another fake rabbit hole to keep you away from the real ones.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Aug 12 2022 21:13 utc | 132

Posted by: the pessimist | Aug 12 2022 19:43 utc | 121

Mr Medvedev announced that if Ukrainian attacks continued and succeeded in damaging the NPP then likely “something” would also happen at Ukraine’s three other NPPs.

If the attacks on the Zaporizhzhya NPP continue, they’ll probably have to be temprarily shut down and electricity to Donbass and Kherson supplied from Russia.
Medvedev is warning Ukraine that they’ll be cold and dark this winter if they continue these attacks.

Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Aug 12 2022 21:13 utc | 133

Opport knocks: FYI you cannot drive from Jordan to Turkey without going through Iraq or Syria.
This week I flew from Sulaimaniya over Syria to Amman. I aeem to remember that Daesh picked up the Toyotas in Turkey. But anyway Cameron was regularly flying special forces from Britain to Turkey. That was the Tory Knobheads’ choice to bring war to the borders of Europe and now the same KHs have brought war to inside Europe, in Ukraine.
The only difference between Syria and Ukraine is that Mulla Krekar signed for Daesh to attack Mosul while the Chechnya guy is with Putin in Ukraine. A mercenary is a mercenary. Muslims are not allowed to be mercenaries to the Fwits in Washington or the Fwits in Russia. Are the two Fwits interchangeable? Above my pay grade to decide, I’m afraid

Posted by: Giyane | Aug 12 2022 21:20 utc | 134

According to RT Ukraine government’s last wishes include a desire to promote the English language:
“Ukraine’s Ministry of Culture and Information Policy is working on a draft law to grant a higher status to the English language, the ministry’s vice head Rostislav Karandeev said during a press briefing on Friday.
“Ukraine is still largely separated from the EU and the rest of the world by a language barrier. A change in the status of the English language is a step that could solve that problem,” Karandeev told reporters.
“In order to grant the language “a higher status” and help Ukrainians master it, the ministry “has started working on a draft law that would ensure English is spoken [in the country] as a language of international communication,” the official added.
“That means, he explained, that in future all civil servants or law enforcement officers will have to be able to speak English…”
So there is hope for joe9211@125 yet.
Rule #1 for Hasbara trolls: Learn the language that you are going to employ, otherwise your sophisticated and logical arguments will not be given the attention that they deserve.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 12 2022 21:23 utc | 135

I scrolled through nearly 140 comments but did not find any mention or reference to the referenda being planned in Kherson and Zaporozhye oblasts for this month or early September. Perhaps I missed a comment or two?
If the referenda go ahead as planned, in spite of Kiev’s best efforts to derail them or kill the organisers, voters in those oblasts are likely to agree to independence from Kiev and then either petitioning Moscow to accept them into the Russian Federation or to form the new nation Novorossiya. (I should think joining the RF would be a safer option.)

Posted by: Jen | Aug 12 2022 21:23 utc | 136

Steiner’s Attack isn’t coming: https://youtu.be/xBWmkwaTQ0k

Posted by: akhmatsila | Aug 12 2022 21:24 utc | 137

Your obsession with yesterday’s bogeymen astonishes me. Please recognize that these are the fables that Langley want you to propagate.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Aug 12 2022 21:13 utc
So the Rothschild-class have given up banking? The WEF has no connection to the Rothschilds, except Schwab’s mother was a blood-Rothschild? And the collection of clowns inhabiting Langley and Foggy Bottom (NOT Biden) are the braintrust running the International Deep State? The CIA controls who gets invited to the Bilderberg and Davos meetings?
Better get a new editor, the book you’re writing has some serious plot flaws.

Posted by: Old canadian | Aug 12 2022 21:28 utc | 138

On the Zaporozhye nuclear plant (ZNPP), Strategic Culture has published the following editorial, which I paste in full below because Western censorship denies far too many the right to read its message. But first I want to reiterate the following critical points. First, if Hezbollah was targeting Dimona in Occupied Palestine, imagine the uproar from Western Media; second, remember it’s the Outlaws in Washington DC that control what’s done by the Ukie regime, Nazis included; it is they who are committing the nuclear terrorism.

Europe’s biggest nuclear power plant is under repeated missile attacks by the NATO-backed Kiev regime. Let that appalling fact sink in for a moment. Can anything more criminal and reckless at this time be imagined?
Bear in mind that the very governments (regimes really) responsible for this abysmal situation are the same ones who proclaim “rules-based order” and “liberal democracy”. Evidently, their rhetoric is just a sick facade for totalitarianism and lawlessness.
What is going on is nuclear terrorism by the Nazi-infested Kiev regime and its Western sponsors. The missiles hitting the Zaporozhye nuclear plant (ZNPP) are supplied by the United States and its NATO allies. The power station has been under sustained artillery or drone attack since last week. A fire at the installation has already been reported although the Russian military and the Ukrainian civilian operators at the Zaporozhye plant managed to put the blaze out. The ZNPP is reckoned to contain hundreds of tonnes of enriched uranium and other spent nuclear fuel. Situated on the mighty Dnieper River in southeast Ukraine that flows into the Black Sea, if the ZNPP is fatally hit the damage would be catastrophic for Europe and the rest of the world. The resulting radioactive contamination would far exceed that of Chernobyl or the Fukushima disaster. The world is on the brink of a deliberately orchestrated cataclysm.
UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres and the UN international nuclear supervising agency, the IAEA, have both condemned the attacks on Zaporozhye as “suicidal”. They have appealed for demilitarization of the area. The UN is being cowardly in its restraint by not specifically condemning the NATO-weaponized Kiev regime. The UN is hiding behind cynical claims that there are “conflicting reports” of who is to blame for the shelling of the nuclear plant.
The United States and its Kiev proxy are blaming Russia for the military strikes. Displaying twisted logic, they say Russia is carrying out the attacks in order to smear the Ukrainian regime. They also claim that Russia is using the plant as a cover for its military forces.
Russian forces commandeered the Zaporozhye NPP in early March, days after they invaded Ukraine on February 24. Russia’s military operation was compelled by the relentless build-up of NATO’s offensive threat in neighboring Ukraine since the CIA coup d’état in 2014. Securing the ZNPP was a top priority given the criminal recklessness of the NATO-backed Kiev regime. Now the United States and its Kiev catspaw are absurdly making out that Russia is hitting its own forces and territory under its control, including the vitally important ZNPP.
The trajectory of missiles fired on the ZNPP clearly shows that the attacks are coming from the territory under the control of the Ukrainian forces and its NATO accomplices. The rational suspicion is that the long-range multiple-launch rocket systems supplied and overseen by the U.S., Britain and Germany are involved.
Washington and its NATO allies are calling on Russia to relinquish control of the nuclear plant and give it back to the Kiev regime.
That preposterous demand exposes who the nuclear terrorists are. The United States and its NATO axis are responsible for holding Europe and the world hostage with the threat of nuclear catastrophe.
We should note that anything claimed by the Kiev regime and its Western handlers, including the entire news media acting as propaganda outlets, cannot be taken remotely seriously. This week, the Kiev puppet president Vladimir Zelensky admitted through his aide Mikhail Podolyak that all public statements are “information warfare” designed to deceive Russia. The alleged Russian massacres at Bucha and Mariupol, allegations of mass rapes by Russian soldiers, and allegations of bombing civilians all fit into this admission of lies.
The furor over a report by Amnesty International last week blaming the Kiev regime for using civilian centers such as hospitals, schools and homes as military shields is just the tip of a very dirty iceberg. But it illustrates the depravity and corruption of the NATO-backed Kiev regime.
The risible accusations that Russia is shelling the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant as some kind of propaganda stunt betray the guilt of projecting onto others what the accusers themselves are capable of doing.
Russian forces have secured Europe’s largest nuclear power station and up to now have averted disaster by protecting it. It is Russia that summoned the UN Security Council to convene this week in an emergency session to highlight the extreme danger. Moscow is calling for demilitarization and for IAEA inspectors to be allowed access to the ZNPP in order to report the circumstances. It is the Kiev regime and its Western sponsors who are preventing those calls. The United States and its NATO axis are supplying more and more long-range missiles to Ukraine and slandering Russia with claims of “nuclear terrorism”. The U.S. axis is in effect giving a green light to the Kiev regime to continue its criminal offensive.
This week saw the 77th anniversary of the U.S. atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That horror was carried out as a criminal act of state terrorism. American justifications for the crimes on August 6 and 9, 1945, have always been known – albeit not widely known due to Western media lies – to be baseless propaganda. The intended effect of the U.S. imperial regime then was to terrorize the rest of the world into submitting to its presumed global dominance.
The same abominable, lawless logic is on show again with the situation in Ukraine over the Zaporozhye nuclear plant. The United States is using its Kiev proxy to hold the world hostage to its imperial objectives.
The psychopathic gambling by the U.S. regime is heinous. Russia has warned that if its territory comes under threat it will use nuclear forces to defend itself. Nuclear war is an increasing risk. If the U.S.-sponsored Kiev regime makes a fatal blow on Zaporozhye causing untold radioactive contamination of Europe, Russia and the rest of the world, what do the Americans expect Moscow to do? Yet this madness by Washington is being pursued.
A diplomatic end to the crisis over Zaporozhye as with the general war in Ukraine is being thwarted by NATO’s militarism. The world’s foremost nuclear terrorist regime – in Washington – is playing with fire and acting as the perverse God of Death again, holding the whole world to ransom for its pernicious ends.
A simple, urgent test beckons: stop the military attacks on Zaporozhye. Now, who is objecting?

Who is objecting indeed!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2022 21:33 utc | 139

TASS reports welcome news from Georgia for a change:
“Georgia does not join war against Russia and welcomes tourists — ruling party: ‘We have repeatedly made statements that Georgia is not launching a war and it does not join a war. There won’t be a second front in Georgia, Georgia does not join the sanctions,’ Secretary general of the ruling Georgian Dream-Democratic Georgia party Kakha Kaladze stressed….
“‘We have repeatedly made statements that Georgia is not launching a war (against Russia – TASS) and it does not join a war. There won’t be a second front in Georgia, Georgia does not join the sanctions. And this is very important. We welcome the tourists,’ said Kaladze, who is also Mayor of Tbilisi.
“The mayor also commented on the information circulated among Georgian Internet users a few days ago that Russian Kamaz trucks with Russian license plates were allegedly seen undergoing repair work in Tbilisi. This is not true, said the mayor adding that in general he had nothing against the vehicles with Russian license plates traveling in Tbilisi.”
Georgia was an age-old ally of Russia until the CIA infiltrated and bought its 5th Column. It appears Georgia is reverting to its longstanding status of which time will be the test.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2022 21:48 utc | 140

Soledar – AFU 14th mechanized brigade suffered 2000 casualties.
Attempting to destroy Zaporizhe NPP is an act of desperation. While it doesn’t warrant using nukes per se, there might be an… accident in another Ukrainian NPP in Rivne or Khmelnitsky, or even one in Poland.

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 12 2022 21:48 utc | 141

While its Master conducts nuclear terrorism, Latvia has issued a howler accusing Russia of being a state-sponsor of terrorism. I can see the desperation on Bliken and Sullivan’s faces as they unload the manure barge not noticing most of it’s sticking to them.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2022 21:53 utc | 142

Alex Christoforou makes the case that the Ukie shelling of the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant is actually a play to force the russians to agree to a “frozen conflict” demilitarized zone, similra to that of Cyprus, which is the only way out now for the Zelensky/NATO regime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEUrnYDNHzE

Posted by: Kate Frey | Aug 12 2022 21:56 utc | 143

karlof1@146
The Nazi death cult has now become a NATO death cult. It is unclear which idiots are taking these decisions. My suspicion is that much of the decision making in NATO is in the hands of junior officers equipped with the semi-AI of algorithms and computerised data.
And the actual artillery is fired by foreigners who will never live anywhere close to the targets.
In Ukraine, of course, there being neither independent media (even mildly questioning bloggers face legal penalties and, more dangerous, fascist secret police violence) nor any opposition political parties or social movements, it is close to impossible for the public to discover what is happening, to protest it would be suicidal.
The fact that nuclear games are being played is an indication of the deliberate progress towards the normalisation of ‘tactical nukes.’
The fact that this is being carried out in Ukraine is yet another and unmistakable sign that for the Nazis in NATO the Ukrainians, far from being a master race, are just another subset of slavs to be eradicated. It is something that the many eastern europeans now in NATO might consider thinking about: when they were in the Warsaw Pact they were high on the list of NATO targets, now they are just as high on the list of disposables, worth more as victims for propaganda, wasting away from cancers than cheap labour or cannon fodder.
Russia needs to make it clear that if the attacks continue then Lvov and Kiev will be targeted.
As to the UN, it seems intent on completely discrediting itself, something which involves very little effort after 75 years of corruption and decline.
The selection of New York City as its HQ was inspired.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 12 2022 22:00 utc | 144

Paco | Aug 12 2022 16:53 utc | 87
“Recall that it was precisely because of the obstruction on the part of the Secretary General and the Secretariat headed by him that an almost coordinated and in all respects prepared international mission of the IAEA failed at the beginning of the summer.”
For ‘security reasons’, I’m assuming. Small wonder, given that the top UN people in charge of security for such missions are alomost exclusively Canadian or American.
Didn’t they use this excuse in Syria, too?

Jen | Aug 12 2022 21:23 utc | 143
“I should think joining the RF would be a safer option.”
Agreed, any shell fired after an incorporation of liberated territories will constitute a direct act of war against Russia proper.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Aug 12 2022 22:01 utc | 145

Posted by: jared | Aug 12 2022 18:14 utc | 106
Russia is not interested in “something that connects with western audience.” Хохол (Khokhol) is an obsolete, colloquial, jokingly familiar or insulting nickname for Ukrainians. Укроп (Ukrop) meaning the herb dill, is another nickname for Ukrainians.

Posted by: Peter Williams | Aug 12 2022 22:53 utc | 146

At liveuamap when browsing from the “time” section the maps seem to be off by one compared to when you directly enter an URL. Unless I’m missing something this looks like a software error and doesn’t matter much in this or many other cases, still worth considering when day precision is needed.

Posted by: jjj | Aug 12 2022 22:56 utc | 147

Vladimir Rogov an administration official in the liberated zone coins the term ‘post Ukrainian space’.
I like that term.
In the post Ukrainian space there are no nazis and their sympathisers and peace has returned.
I also note that in the post Palestine space the opposite is the case.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 12 2022 23:09 utc | 148

It destroyed the last vestiges of the American labor movement and pulled the rug out from under the European left.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 12 2022 19:41 utc | 120

From my limited encounters with the thugs and goons in the North American labor movement, good riddance. And how much further left do want Europe to go?

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Aug 12 2022 23:09 utc | 149

«In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 267 aircraft, 146 helicopters, 1,732 unmanned aerial vehicles, 365 anti-aircraft missile systems, 4,293 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 797 multiple rocket launchers, 3,290 field artillery and mortars, as well as 4,844 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed.»
Anyone has a graphic to show this evolution since day one? The amount of things Russia destroys is getting smaller, since there are fewer and fewer to destroy everyday. On the other side, more and more Ukrainians die in trenches/bunkers/headquarters (or behind civilian shields) every day.
Am I the only one feeling that Russia could have already ended this, but is waiting just to be able to see Europe sanction itself during the Winter?
Wait for more expensive NATO weapons arrive in Ukraine, as Europeans suffer under their self-imposed crisis, just to see if NATO finally cracks?
Could it be that the attrition phase in Donbass and Kherson frontlines was exactly Russian plan, to wait and see a regime change in Kiev, and get a deal “too good to believe” like the one Azerbaijan got from Armenia in 2020 (more land changing hands even without being conquered by fight)?
On the other hand, the Azerbaijan counter-offensive took almost 30 years to prepare. During that time, Armenia believe it had conquered those territories around Artesakh (Nagorno-Kharabakh) in a definitive way.
But, if I’m thinking about this, then Russia already thought about it too.
Finally, one funny stat: 797 MRLS destroyed by Russia in 171 days = 4 or 5 MRLS destroyed EVERY DAY (4.66 on average). How many MRLS (high-mobility or not) can NATO’s military industrial complex build every day?
Answer: not enough. lol

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Aug 12 2022 23:12 utc | 150

Mike at iEarlGrey fears for Gonzalo Lira as Karkhov comes under intense bombardment.
“I hope Gonzalo Lira isn’t in the district”
I assume he can rest easy on that point 😉

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 12 2022 23:21 utc | 151

So the Rothschild-class have given up banking? The WEF has no connection to the Rothschilds, except Schwab’s mother was a blood-Rothschild? And the collection of clowns inhabiting Langley and Foggy Bottom (NOT Biden) are the braintrust running the International Deep State? The CIA controls who gets invited to the Bilderberg and Davos meetings?
Better get a new editor, the book you’re writing has some serious plot flaws.
Posted by: Old canadian | Aug 12 2022 21:28 utc | 145

I love it when people quote one easily disproven conspiracy theory to back up another. Klaus is not the offspring of any Rothschild. Of course the Rothschilds Banks still operate around the world. But their assets under management are a rounding error compared to the big corporate players.
https://www.rothschildandco.com/
Recall that when the head of the Rothschilds in France died a couple of years back, he was only the 22nd richest person in France!!

Mrs (Marianne Rothschild) Schwab arrived in the United States in 1940, where she met her future husband, Fred Schwab, with whom she had two children, Leslie and Madeleine. (Notice no mention of Karl who was born in 1938)
A biography of Klaus Schwab published by the World Economic Forum states he was born in 1938, in Ravensberg, Germany. Mr Schwab also dedicated his book “Stakeholder Capitalism”, published in 2021, to his parents Eugen Wilhelm Schwab and Erika Epprecht.
Mr Schwab told the German Press Agency in 2021 “I don’t know Marianne Schwab. She does not belong to our family.”

The WEF still requires “Media & Muscle” to implement any agenda. Without the co-operation and support of MI6, the CIA and their Mockingbird media they are just another conference and think tank.
Try a fresh batch of Koolaid, what you have been drinking has clearly gone rancid.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Aug 12 2022 23:51 utc | 152

One of the many tragedies of the war: to avoid the political fallout from mobilization in Russia, LPR/DPR formations are formed by yanking guys of all ages and conditions from the street and throwing them at the front with hardly any equipment or training. Early in the war, *frostbite* was common in their ranks. I support the Ukrainian side in this war, but the losses all around are tragic – these guys did not decide to invade, and there’s a bitter irony to a generation of their men being destroyed as cannon fodder, “for their protection”.
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1558182070958129152

Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 12 2022 23:59 utc | 153

And speaking of “offensive”, could someone explain what the word khokhol means and why is it used for Ukrainian fighters?
Posted by: jared | Aug 12 2022 16:16 utc | 68
William Gruff beat me to it, but yeah, “hohol” is just some weird ukrainian hairdo. In cartoons/memes derisive of ukrainians you can sometimes see it. You can also sometimes see it in a parade of ukronazi bastards.
Another word, “ukrop” as far as I know means “dill” (the seasoning herb), once I saw a meme in Rusvesna which was a photo of a knife on a cutting board and a fat bundle of dill cut across the midle, the knife had St. George’s ribbon wrapped around the handle.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Aug 13 2022 0:29 utc | 154

Contrarian_Ed @ 138
Medvedev is warning Ukraine that they’ll be cold and dark this winter if they continue these attacks.
I suppose Russia is talking about copying the style of attack by taking out the transformers at the plant. There is no way the reactor could dump its load so it would have to go into an emergency shutdown. Dangerous to say the least.
Russia could start walking it back by hitting the step down transformers on the periphery instead of hitting the step up transformers near the plant as a warning. Slow and steady until they stop just like the SMO.
Winter is coming, with no gas and no electricity. Military summary talked today about whole regions in the east and south being evacuated for the winter due to the lack of power for the Ukrainians.

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 13 2022 0:34 utc | 155

Opport Knocks@154
Your knowledge of the Labor movement does sound very limited. Perhaps you could explain how you came by it?
As to this “how much further left do want Europe to go?” It is an astonishing question. Every government in Europe is committed to NATO and neo-liberalism. Even the Swiss, Swedes and the Irish have dropped their neutrality, while Finland has reversed its long standing (post WWII) policy of not siding with Russia’s enemies. Not since the 1930s has Europe been so right wing. And you, presumably speaking from the viewpoint of a crypto-fascist or Trumpian, consider it to be left wing.
You are right about the Rothschilds but you know nothing about European politics.
Why are people constantly tempted to undermine their own authority by repeating the sort of idle rubbish picked up from Fox or The National/Washington Post?

Posted by: bevin | Aug 13 2022 0:35 utc | 156

The Hotel Bandera will be overflowing soon:
intelslava/35363 (Telegram)

Posted by: Kenneth | Aug 13 2022 0:44 utc | 157

uncleT@156… he’s been posting on twitter today…..
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 13 2022 0:46 utc | 158

@yenwoda”
So…in fact, your “support of the Ukrainian side in this” US/NATO-stan’s proxy “war” via Zelensky’s relentless sacrificial slaughtering of his own fellow Ukrainian ‘citizens’ by “yanking guys of all ages and conditions from the street and throwing them at the front with hardly any equipment or training” is indeed “a bitter irony” for you openly acknowledge that “a generation of” Ukrainian “men being destroyed as cannon fodder”

Posted by: thewokendead | Aug 13 2022 0:48 utc | 159

Opport Knocks@154
Honestly you really cannot say this without ;lots of experience. As I understand it the US unions were particularly corrupt with links to the mafia and worse. perhaps they were thugs (perhaps not) but the test is the living standards of the average worker. Did the men (it was mostly men) who worked in the jobs controlled by unions do much better than they had before unionism. Did they have enough money for a modest but comfortable life.
if the answer is yes, then even some corruption and thuggery may be for the greater good. of course in the USA the complexity of racial politics and state differences means you cannot draw too many conclusions.
In Europe (from my knowledge) but also for Australia and NZ where Social Democrat government with strong links to unions have often ruled, the results have been positive. A strong social safety net, free health care, free education, aged pensions etc. As the strength of unions has diminished, these safety net provisions are being whittled down until more and more we resemble the dog eat dog, hunger games lifestyle i associate with the USA.
The left (or at least the economic left) in Europe as in Australia is fading fast. This is not the same as the woke left who are on a roll but have nothing whatsoever to do with the core economic left or the goals of the union movement.
Look Opp K every single social organisation – be it unions, the church committee,the yacht club or the cat protection society will always trend towards cliquish cabal behaviour – Freezing out newcomers and behaving in an overbearing even bullying nature. It is the nature of human society. What is sad is that the more successful the organisation is in achieving its goals the sooner it may decline. After all once you have acheived a living wage, and enough mine supports to avoid collapse, the goals which everyone supported with urgency become less significant. An extra 5 minutes tea break is not so important as a 30 minute lunch break after 5 hours hard work. Child care is nice but not everyone gains. When the goals are less significant or life changing, then the ossification starts. Without constant renewal and careful management they all will trend in this direction until they wither and are replaced by a new organisation. it not a feature of unions as such.

Posted by: watcher | Aug 13 2022 1:02 utc | 160

Your knowledge of the Labor movement does sound very limited. Perhaps you could explain how you came by it?
Posted by: bevin | Aug 13 2022 0:35 utc | 161

I grew up in Brantford, Ontario, a town that Unions and Management together willfully destroyed.
As for Europe, social benefits and pensions are as good or better than anywhere. I agree that most mid-sized businesses would be better run on an Employee co-operative basis. However, the big stuff, never gonna happen.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Aug 13 2022 1:02 utc | 161

Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 12 2022 23:59 utc | 158
😂
Ukrotrolls, NATOtrolls and NAZItrolls are unfailingly pathetic and laughable. Both paid and amateur are out in force screeching and making clowns of themselves ANYWHERE AND EVERYWHERE, because russians&allies are turning their ground-pounding “””comrades””” into so much mincemeat – and it’s a rare sight to watch muslims cooking pig, but boy, are they good at it.
These troll corps members, regular or partisan, are all addicted to attention, manipulation, derision; are incorrigible, and have the average emotional maturity of a highschooler. Either by nature or by method, I don’t really care.
Is this what you call an IPSO? 😂😂😂
I’d ask you, how does a life devoted to abject lying and manipulation taste, just being an useless nuisance bringing nothing of value to this world.
But for that I’d need to give a hoot about sociopath’s “””feelings”””

Posted by: Arganthonios | Aug 13 2022 1:11 utc | 162

@161 Bevin
Thanks Bevin. I wish there was a left in the USA or Europe. A strong labor movement would be nice, too. Crypto-fascists are the biggest dupes around. They think they are fighting neo-liberal imperialism, but the reality is they are the globalists unwitting foot soldiers.

Posted by: Haassaan | Aug 13 2022 1:12 utc | 163

Karlof1 post 92
Re in support of your last paragraph
I was in Great Victoria Station ( Belfast ) 7-Mar-22 waiting for my train home but I had to make a telephone call. I wanted to have a bit of privacy so I walked round to a side street. Finished the call and was returning to the station and was passing four obviously non Irish guys, they were reading from their Phones. and enjoying themselves.They were South African and in full support of Russia ‘This is good, very good’ one of them said, so I asked ‘Why is it good? The answer was ‘Because now our torturers are being tortured.’ All I could do was smile nod my head and pass by.
I am certain that they spoke for the bulk of Africa, Asia and below the Rio Grande. Sad days are coming to the ‘Northern Countries’ and the majority of their peoples simply cannot grasp reality, a growing minority does though. I believe there may well be societal brakedown, I hope not but it is looking that way. What comes after – who knows.

Posted by: deal | Aug 13 2022 1:55 utc | 164

@168 I think the European labor movement is sitting by their swimming pools in Spain. The actual work is now done by migrants of which there seems to be an endless supply. Perhaps they will get organized someday.

Posted by: dh | Aug 13 2022 2:12 utc | 165

@paco – thanks also for your posts – william gruff and karlof1 as well…
@ Opport Knocks | Aug 12 2022 23:09 utc | 154
i also happen to agree with @bevin… you sound like a shill for the corporations, or you are regurgitating the b.s. the corporate media spouts regularly…. unions are more good then bad and have helped much as opposed to not, but i think it is the principles and ideas that are worth embracing which ultimately is for the little people, as opposed to the corporations, which is what we have gotten in spades…. sorry opport knocks, but you give a superficial read of this and are rightly getting some push back for others for it…

Posted by: james | Aug 13 2022 2:20 utc | 166

@161 bevin
To your question to “how much further left do you want Europe to go,” I want to ask you if you are willing to deport the millions and millions of immigrants who are driving down wages, disrupting culture, and basically being a drag on European society?
Absent the era of easy-debt and money printing that we will likely be emerging from when the chickens come home to roost, what would your stance be on restoring cultural boundaries where the prospect of a permaculture e can emerge that detests neoliberal excess?

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 13 2022 3:00 utc | 167

Comment #11 by English Outsider and by bevin #65 are touching on the same theme – how will the media and the governments behind them – climb down from the lies and accusations and from Russophobia – or if they will ever climb down? I asked this question before and someone answered – they will never climb down. – something has to “give”, it seems that those liars will be climbed down, and that will not be nice and pretty for them.

Posted by: fanto | Aug 13 2022 3:01 utc | 168

James @ 171, et al.
We already tried the free market without much organized resistance from 1500 to 1850 and what did the invisible hand/laissez faire give us:
slavery
child labor
female subservience
industrial toxic waste
environmental destruction
So the last 170 years of people trying to organize against the imperial/capitalistic structures (built on classical/feudal/colonial foundations) is good…even when unions sometimes allow greedy/bad people to manipulate the system…it’s better than a system without them. Doesn’t mean we can’t strive for something even better.

Posted by: Objective Observer | Aug 13 2022 3:04 utc | 169

NemesisCalling@172
That wasn’t my question. It was asked by Opport Knocks.
Has it ever occurred to you that mass emigration to Europe in the past thirty years has been intimately related to imperialist adventures, most of them involving European governments?
The sudden popularity of Europe among Libyans, for example, was preceded by attacks in Libya which ruined the economy and shattered society. Similar efforts in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, inter alia, also prompted millions to seek their fortunes in Europe.
In the United States decades of brutal imperialist interventions in Latin America have led-to the surprise it seems of many Americans- to the flight of tens of thousands to El Norte.
If the imperialist nations could restrain themselves from these sadistic adventures they would soon find that the ‘immigration crisis” would disappear.
Most Hondurans, Mexicans, Guatemalans hate having to seek jobs in the States but when Americans steal their lands, set up military dictators to ruin their lives and regularly lapse into genocidal massacres they drive the poor locals to leave home and run the gauntlet of brutal border guards, exploitative employers and demagogic politicians who grow fat on the lives of the poor.
The wonder is that Americans, most of them descendants of people driven to the extremity of migration, seem unable to understand why others, generally the victims of wars that voters support and justify, do what their ancestors did in the 1840s, the 1890s, the 1920s and more recent decades.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 13 2022 3:49 utc | 170

Posted by: bevin | Aug 13 2022 3:49 utc | 175
The same is true for a lot of legal immigration in the US. Many of the legal immigrants since the 1970’s have come legally are from countries that the US has been involved in direct or indirect imperial chicanery: Vietnam, Cambodia, Somalia, Ukraine, El Salvador, just to name a few of the larger groups of legal immigrants.
These immigrants are usually connected to the those who supported US endeavors in those countries and are now rewarded by getting a chance to come to the US. These immigrants then often, but not always, support US government policies in the countries the emigrated from. That’s a big generalization.
Other types of immigration (i.e., illegal) into the US are often the indirect result of US imperial endeavors.

Posted by: Objective Observer | Aug 13 2022 3:58 utc | 171

bevin @175
if the imperialist nations could restrain themselves from these sadistic adventures they would soon find that the ‘immigration crisis” would disappear.
You hit the nail right on the head with that statement.
Unions are only as good as their membership. If the membership abstains from operations then the leadership runs away with the union. I am in the best union in the country (easily top 10) for wages and benefits and the members guard the union. A bunch of really tough well armed folks. I fought against mobbed up union leadership in times past and I can tell you that most union members are as knowledgeable as the average US citizen. Not very.
It was so bad back then I carried two pistols and ten clips. That is how bad it was but they knew it and it saved my bacon. We lost that one in the end. It was a mob corporate arrangement back in the corporate raider days. I really appreciate my position now.

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 13 2022 4:04 utc | 172

Such a beautiful irony. USUKIS gambled European security by using Islamist terror on European borders UNTIL they haf to destroy Islamic State completely.
Now USUKIS decides to threaten European security again using Ukranian Mafia, who use Biden’s balls , billions of dollars of precision weaponry , to threaten Europe with nuclear dirty bomb by using said weapons on the nuclear power citation.
Before we die we have the vast satisfaction of being proved right that the West is bonkers. Some other people will inherit our post-nuclear re-forestation in 100 years from now.
Unless of course the co-ordinates of the Ukranian mafia trying to blackmail USUKIS mobsters are supplied to Russia before the dirty bomb is detonated. Did the US care about Fukushima? Does it care about Europe?
Probably not.
There’s a moral for Europe in there somewhere.Don’t work for the mafia.

Posted by: Giyane | Aug 13 2022 4:09 utc | 173

@William Gruff | Aug 12 2022 / #thread
M88888888. You are on fire right now.
Consuming my virtual popcorn …
Keep the entertainment flowing.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 13 2022 4:11 utc | 174

Posted by: NewWorldDisorder | Aug 12 2022 20:25 utc | 125
“directed energy weapons which super heat a target causing fire and explosions”
Lasers and such are ineffective even at medium distances due to dispersion, and they require lots of electric power, but you’re saying they could be used from hundreds of kilometers away by a satellite?
“kinetic weapons systems that drop a tungsten slug from orbit”
That’s chill. Other nations would drop a projectile or a bomb, but because it’s the US, they’ll drop a ‘slug’ (whoa!) instead. So chill. Or did you mean an actual slug that will eat the cabbage crops?
“microwave heaters that heat the atmosphere to redirect the jet stream”
You have this thing called a sun that shines non stop on a full half of the earth’s surface (250 million square kilometers), but a little satellite with a few tens of square meters of solar panel and a miniature nuclear reactor is going to heat the atmosphere to redirect the jet stream?
People have no sense of basic math or physics nowadays. I have no doubt that climate and weather is being heavily engineered, but that’s with much higher powered microwave arrays on the surface and by spraying immense amounts of particles from airplanes to cause or disrupt cloud formation. Plus trash sediment gumming up the deep ocean streams, and deforestation and artificial water reservoirs changing evaporation rates and ground albedo.
That said, I’ll be very happy the day all US and Israel satellites are shot down.

Posted by: Jusses | Aug 13 2022 4:16 utc | 175

Hah! Take that all you pro-Putin anti-Nazi scum. You think after the war all of us Nazi supermen will be kaput doncha? Well we won’t. There will even be plenty of opportunities for the superior genetics of even of our wimen. . .
https://kyivindependent.com/national/saving-ukraine-with-nudes-ukrainians-raise-700-0000-for-military-selling-erotic-photos

Posted by: KyleKoffler | Aug 13 2022 4:27 utc | 176

@175 bevin
I am aware of that, bevin. I was not insinuating any insult or gotcha! At you.
Mass immigration is a neoliberal excess. To reverse it, you will have to use ugly means to put it right again.
Just wondering if you have internalized this neccessity going forward, or perhaps you would dispense with the labor movement all together and just centralize everything under the proletariat.
Decisions, decisions.
In my neck of the woods, the union I belonged to was a bargaining unit against a public employer. I did see in my time there leadership infiltrated by a certain “marginalized” group of the opposite sex. As a result, I can not see any hard-nose attitudes with regard to imported labor a la the heyday of Cesar Chavez (who Biden in all of his glory, had a bust of opposite his desk in the White House). Rather, I see unions currently and having the potential as just another captured institution by the globalist parasites to stymie any talk of the contradictions that are arising in neoliberalism. In other words, the body snatchers pointing and yelling, “Racist, transphobe, white supremacist!!!”
It’a also funny that the cheerleading for China here overlooks the lack of union-rights there, the rise of billionaires, and the shirking of environmental protection that we have in the states. It’s just another interesting phenomenon of the cognitive dissonance at play in the modern leftist.
Not that I am anti-China because of this. On the contrary, we need to be more like them in how they take care of their people and say “f you” to what the western world thinks.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 13 2022 4:33 utc | 177

KyleKoffler | Aug 13 2022 4:27 utc | 181
Proving that in this Age of the Modern Self Determining Empowered Woman….
There is always a cause/ activism which can be best served by a lascivious display of nudity.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 13 2022 4:51 utc | 178

@ Kenneth 162
So I’ve heard. The white swans are going to turn the Ukro-Zionazi system pigs into charred bacon.

Posted by: Levitation | Aug 13 2022 4:53 utc | 179

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 13 2022 4:33 utc | 182
“the rise of billionaires, and the shirking of environmental protection”
Bullocks. Spoken as a true anti China propagandist. Have you been to China to make a value call like that?
I’m a foreigner living in Henan province, China, for past 9 years and never want to return to my useless white man’s colony home country.
The environment here is getting noticably better each passing year. Even the Chinese people openly admit this.
Billionaires in China don’t agree with you. They hate the CPC because of the strict vigilance over their conduct. Go ask Jack Ma, Didi,and boss of Wanda property.

Posted by: Surferket | Aug 13 2022 4:56 utc | 180

@ circumspect | Aug 13 2022 4:04 utc | 177 who OT wrote

Unions are only as good as their membership. If the membership abstains from operations then the leadership runs away with the union. I am in the best union in the country (easily top 10) for wages and benefits and the members guard the union. A bunch of really tough well armed folks. I fought against mobbed up union leadership in times past and I can tell you that most union members are as knowledgeable as the average US citizen. Not very.

I am going to respond on the latest Open Thread

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 13 2022 5:24 utc | 181

There’s been loads of videos over the months of Zelensky and his cronies yanking people off the streets, beaches, bars, pools, countryside, you name it, and throwing them to front lines. They are now even officially throwing already wounded and non-recovered people straight back to fronts. They are even recruiting the dead and missing.
https://t.me/denatofication/2587
https://t.me/sputnik/9364
https://t.me/azmilitary11/9114
https://t.me/azmilitary11/8507
https://t.me/azmilitary11/7409
Bodies of dead US mercs are being looted, although this might be a somewhat normal practice.
https://t.me/asbmil/3855

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 13 2022 5:30 utc | 182

“But so far, they’ve proven themselves illiterate. Like our newest troll @123.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2022 20:03 utc | 123”
Bold statement! Certainly not taking the fifth, like his paymaster!

Posted by: Bozo | Aug 13 2022 5:32 utc | 183

@ Objective Observer | Aug 13 2022 3:04 utc | 174
i agree with you.. thanks for saying all that! ditto @ 175 bevins comment too…
just back home for a night of great live music… http://www.oracogan.com/

Posted by: james | Aug 13 2022 6:39 utc | 184

One direct hit on ZNPP and it’s springtime for Zel-baby and Kiev, winter for Poland and France (and all places in between).

Posted by: quasi_verbatim | Aug 13 2022 6:43 utc | 185

White House condemns ‘reprehensible’ attack against Salman Rushdie: ‘This act of violence is appalling’ – Foxnews shouts.
White House had forgotten that it sends deadly arms to Zelly to kill Russians and Russian speaking Ukrainians. Oh, that’s not appalling…🤔
On the other hand, Rushdie is a fool, and his book is absolutely bullshit, even Harry Potter is better. He was stabbed by an 24 year old American, after all.

Posted by: rp | Aug 13 2022 7:17 utc | 186

@Moaobserver | Aug 12 2022 20:35 utc | 129

What happened in 2010 in Tianjin?

It wasn’t in 2010, it was August 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nivf3Y96I_E
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-warehouse-explosion-tianjin-workers-race-to-clear-site-of-deadly-chemicals-before-rains-10457786.html

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 13 2022 7:21 utc | 187

Washington, in order to avoid defeat, should force Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to return to the negotiating table with Russia, this would be the best solution for the United States. — Alexander Darchiev, Director of the North American Department of the Russian Foreign Ministry, August 13.
“The best solution for Washington to avoid a humiliating defeat, as recently happened in Afghanistan, would be to force Zelensky to stop senseless resistance and return to the negotiating table before it’s too late.”

Posted by: rp | Aug 13 2022 7:31 utc | 188

I support the Ukrainian side in this war…
Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 12 2022 23:59 utc | 158

That we know, Galicien…😋
Or should I say, KhoKhol?

Posted by: rp | Aug 13 2022 7:38 utc | 189

Russia has warned the United States about the points of no return, after which the rupture of diplomatic relations is possible – Alexander Darchiev, Director of the North America Department of the Russian Foreign Ministry

Posted by: rk | Aug 13 2022 7:47 utc | 190

@rp | Aug 13 2022 7:38 utc | 194
why are you replying? ignore the retard

Posted by: rk | Aug 13 2022 7:47 utc | 191

Posted by: Jusses | Aug 13 2022 4:16 utc | 180

I have no doubt that climate and weather is being heavily engineered, but that’s with much higher powered microwave arrays on the surface and by spraying immense amounts of particles from airplanes to cause or disrupt cloud formation. Plus trash sediment gumming up the deep ocean streams, and deforestation and artificial water reservoirs changing evaporation rates and ground albedo.

Cloud can be temporarily dispersed at a local level, but not at a scale big enough to affect regional or global climate. Deforestation is more than offset by the increase in airborne CO2 greening the Earth over the last 40 years.
The total area of artificial reservoirs worldwide is tiny compared to the oceans.
Deep ocean currents are not being “gummed up”

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Aug 13 2022 7:49 utc | 192

@karlof1 #144 … ZNPP is reckoned to contain hundreds of tonnes of enriched uranium and other spent nuclear fuel. Situated on the mighty Dnieper River in southeast Ukraine that flows into the Black Sea…
Scott Ritter wrote an Op-ed “Ukraine and its Western backers should be held accountable for the ‘suicidal’ attack on Europe’s largest nuclear powerplant” (read at RT) . IMHO, this is not enough. It is too passive. Given the unimaginable, irreversible destructions in the potential catastrophe, EVERY EUROPEAN POLITICIAN who does not condemn this reckless terrorism and continues to support the proxy war in Ukraine IS GUILTY. Yes, all who remain silent are GUILTY.
To answer terrorism with terrorism by (as put forward on IntelslavaZ) attacking NPPs in western Ukraine, is WRONG at the same level. The right thing to do (in spite of largely being illegal, but these are the weapons the outlaws have chosen) is to BDS THE US. All European politicians who fail to demand less than that are GUILTY. And if the catastrophe really happens, they collectively deserve life sentences and forfeiture of assets to finance reparations.
One of the worst affected nation in case of the catastrophe would be Turkiye. They should make that clear to NATO and Ukraine. One more such attack, and we are out.
—————-
P.S. Speaking about Turkiye. There was an interesting article on RT DE, which I didn’t find on the EN channel. [my translation ->] Çavuşoğlu reveals: Turkiye and Syria had talks on ministerial level in last October.

Çavuşoğlu: “There must be a powerful government to avoid the partition of Syria, and there hast to be a government, which is able to control the whole territory of the country.

Putin reportedly offered Erdogan earlier this month in Sotschi to moderate between Turkiye and Syria. I really hope that good agreements will materialize. This would offer some immediate possibilities to teach the US physically hurtful lessons. Which is, back to the ZNPP topic, overdue and justified.

Posted by: OttoE | Aug 13 2022 7:57 utc | 193

Why would Erdo leave nato? It’s much better for him to remain inside.
I’d like to see how he plans to get rid of US in Syria. US won’t leave, there’s oil to be stolen for many decades and I doubt US will trade so much free oil for something Erdo can offer. What would that be? Finland/Sweden? They don’t even have to officially join nato to be filled with nato bases, that’s just for msm propaganda.

Posted by: rk | Aug 13 2022 8:18 utc | 194

Whilst the situation at the NPP in Zaporizhzhia is very concerning, I am certain Russia gamed this situation before they took over the plant.
IMO these actions have the hallmarks of the last desperate gamble of people so immersed in their own egos, that any way to save face, however despicable, is now acceptable.
As the use of nuclear weaopns protocols has changed in the U.S. and certain elements believe that a Nuclear catastrophy can’t touch them, this has led to this insanity.
I’m sure that Russia is well ahead of the curve and will not deviate from it’s objectives.
Moscow understands all the perspectives of these attacks and will not allow itself to be tricked, sidetracked or made to compromise it’s position.
The real concern is if the west understands that Russia has accepted that if it goes Nuclear, so be it.

Posted by: Beibdnn. | Aug 13 2022 8:53 utc | 195

TASS: Supplies to Ukraine of Western long-range weapons systems will lead to the expansion of the geographical tasks of the Russian special operation. US influence on the Kiev regime has reached a scope that Washington is increasingly becoming a party to the conflict in Ukraine – Alexander Darchiev.

Posted by: rk | Aug 13 2022 9:22 utc | 196

karlof1 | Aug 12 2022 20:03 utc | 123
“… Like our newest troll @123.
This^ is why the timestamp is necessary.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 13 2022 9:42 utc | 197

@Beibdnn. | Aug 13 2022 8:53 utc | 200
It’s not very assuring that Russia may have gamed the MPP takeover. They certainly also have gamed attacks, fires, sabotage at their Crimean airfield. And still…

Posted by: OttoE | Aug 13 2022 10:14 utc | 198

Re: Iron Curtain 2.0
Barflys might contemplate the period circa 1955 – 1970 with a focus on the measures enforced as part of the Iron Curtain 1.0.
Essentially all contact was severed – no plane flights, nil academic exchanges, nearly impossible to place a telephone call.

Posted by: Exile | Aug 13 2022 10:35 utc | 199

We see that the maintainers of LiveUAmap kept the front line as it was, but added a gray zone on the Ukrainian side.
If you click on the mystery gray zone you will find they are – Territories, liberated from Russian forces
You can believe that if you want. Forgive me if somebody has already answered this but there are a lot of comments to read through.

Posted by: Derek | Aug 13 2022 11:09 utc | 200